Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Frank Wimberly]

I worked at CMU for 20 years.  When I moved to Santa Fe it occurred to me
that a branch campus in Santa Fe might be a possibility.  CMU's strongest
programs and in engineering and science (not surprisingly) and fine arts
(perhaps surprising to some) but with growing excellence in humanities and
social sciences.  I thought this would be synergistic with Santa Fe given
the national labs and the arts culture.  I went into much more detail than
that as I consulted with several senior faculty there, including George
Duncan and Mark Kamlet, then provost.  Mark said it was an interesting idea
that he would like to investigate.  Eventually Mark sent me and others a
long letter (multiple pages) with a cost-benefit analysis focusing on
finances (he's an economist).  To summarize greatly, the project was not
economically viable partly because they had opened campuses in Qatar,
Silicon Valley, and were in the process of opening one in Singapore.  He
included analyses of cost per student, and related issues such as cost of
faculty.  The point is that it was a serious consideration but eventually
rejected.  There were many more details that I have left out.

Frank

---
Frank Wimberly

My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly

My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2

Phone (505) 670-9918

On Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 1:43 PM Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> Nick writes:
>
>
>
> < In other words, are the ills you identify inherent to all human
> institutions, or really only inherent to government ones.  Would it be
> better if CMU put a campus here? >
>
>
>
> Why would CMU do that unless it was to 1) have a pool of experienced
> people to hire, or 2) attach to government (defense) contracts in the area,
> or 3) a reasonable expectation there would be lots of people paying tuition
> (directly or indirectly)?
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

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Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Marcus Daniels]

Nick writes:

“People have kids because they have hopes; people with more fears than hopes, 
probably don’t have kids.”

Ed writes:

“It seems we who have benefited either directly or indirectly from the welfare 
that has supported the labs in NM should feel some responsibility to help the 
75% of children in the SF schools who are on food aid, if for no other reason 
to break the cycle of poverty.”

How about removing tax credits for dependents.   And do more to indoctrinate 
people to have more fears than hopes, because judging from Ed’s remark, they 
are badly calibrated to reality.   And raise taxes across the board to fund 
schools so that the kids do in fact leave and don’t make the same mistake.   
Depopulate parts of this country where it is just not going to work out.   
Canada is doing it.Or conversely, pay them to come.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/blogs/how-do-you-deal-with-dwindling-tiny-towns-newfoundland-and-labrador-will-pay-you-to-leave-1.4466157
https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/31/pf/jobs/vermont-pay-remote-workers/index.html

Marcus


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Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Marcus Daniels]

Nick writes:

< In other words, are the ills you identify inherent to all human institutions, 
or really only inherent to government ones.  Would it be better if CMU put a 
campus here? >

Why would CMU do that unless it was to 1) have a pool of experienced people to 
hire, or 2) attach to government (defense) contracts in the area, or 3) a 
reasonable expectation there would be lots of people paying tuition (directly 
or indirectly)?

Marcus



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Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[thompnickson2]

Ach!

 

I glad we are talking about this.  It is the kind of issue that we, in 
particular, ought to think up and speak out about.  My own impulse would be to 
entertain the possibility of a LANL-SF, but negotiate some sort of arrangement, 
say, perhaps, that no classified work could be done in here.

 

But now I have heard from several voices that I respect deeply, each speaking 
from very different kinds of experience, and all appearing to agree that even 
in the absence of War Heads, hosting a national laboratory would not benefit 
Santa Fe.  But what are the alternatives?  In other words, are the ills you 
identify inherent to all human institutions, or really only inherent to 
government ones.  Would it be better if CMU put a campus here?  I have heard 
many of you express the same doubts about universities.  Would it be better if 
Google or Amazon put a campus here?  Why?  Why are large for-profit 
institutions more to be trusted than government and academic ones?  At least 
with government institutions there is the possibility of regulating them by 
popular will.  Amazon, not so much.   Is your position that EVERY institution 
should be so small we can drown it in a bathtub?  So, set the threshold for 
anti trust action VERY low.  How bout this:  every corporation with more than a 
billion dollars in assets must place 5 percent of its annual income in a trust 
fund to encourage competing start ups.   Well, OK, split the College of Santa 
Fe campus up. Give it to ten different real estate firms with instructions that 
they must work independently.   Treat it as a hazard, rather than an 
opportunity.  

 

I heard a similar proposal for a solution to the truth problem on the internet. 
 Every retweet over ten-thousand contributes funds a conterarian tweet on the 
same stream.  In fact, how about a retweet limit on all messages.  No message 
can be retweeted more than ten-thousand times.   

 

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Steven A Smith
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 11:48 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF 
City Hall; bring friends

 

Merle, et al -

Though I reject most of the extreme arguments I hear on both sides of this 
issue, my instinct is that it would be better if Santa Fe did NOT invite 
LANL/NNSA into the development of this critical/central/prime location in the 
heart of *greater* Santa Fe.   

I've been living in a variant of this  high-dimensional, nonlinear, sometimes 
subtle and nuanced question all of my (adult) life.   I came to LANL at 24 as a 
technophilic peacenik who believed MAD made sense (1980) and was happy to 
ensure that WE had the BIG STICK.  I raised two children In Los Alamos and 
finally left in 2008 (27 years later) after Bechtel took over, remaining in the 
region and in high-tech work.   Along the way I was confronted with *many* 
changes in the international political, cultural and scientific landscape.   
The end of the Cold War and nuclear testing, a nuclear arms-race between 
India/Pakistan, two Gulf Wars, a deep and abiding awareness of the reality and 
threat of Climate Change (and other parallel Endogenous Existential Threats).

I went through a few personal transformations as well, including shepherding my 
two daughters into maturity along the way.  My opinions have become much 
stronger, broader and more nuanced over the years and I am thankful to have had 
the perspective offered through the rich gradients formed by our "tri-cultural 
heritage".   LANL is much more/less than a traditional "Anglo" company town and 
the work that goes on there is much more/less than virtually any other 
facility.  Adding Pu Pit production has expanded that yet more, while the 
unfathomably deep explorations into what may very well represent an array of  
other technological *existential threats*.  Possibly equally important 
sociopolitically, is the role of Santa Fe (and San Juan Pueblo before it) as a 
locus of European Conquest, including the Pueblo Revolt (I can see Black Mesa 
from my window as I type).  

I agree with most of Ed's assertions about the variability of quality of the 
work at LANL, and certainly question the average "value received" with such 
outrageous overheads and oft isolated efforts.  I also agree with his summary 
of the net socioeconomic impact on the region/state.   While I was (am via 
legacy savings and local available services) a beneficiary of the very large 
amount of money pumped into the region, I see the deleterious effects of it.   

With my renewed interest and awareness in the "Endogenous Existential Threats" 
of our time, I am more sensitive to the callousness of many 

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Edward Angel]

The issue in NM and other poor places around the world is not the debate about 
whether people should or should not have children but what to do about the 
children who exist. Do we really want to hold the children responsible for the” 
sins" of their parents? It seems we who have benefited either directly or 
indirectly from the welfare that has supported the labs in NM should feel some 
responsibility to help the 75% of children in the SF schools who are on food 
aid, if for no other reason to break the cycle of poverty.

Ed
___

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu 
<mailto:an...@cs.unm.edu>
505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel 
<http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel>

> On Jan 14, 2020, at 11:54 AM,  
>  wrote:
> 
> Marcus,
>  
> People have kids because they have hopes; people with more fears than hopes, 
> probably don’t have kids.  
>  
> On the other hand, there’s what my father said when, I, at the age of 40, 
> observed that I appeared to have been … a “caboose”.  “Son,” he said, as if 
> he had been planning what to say for 40 years.  “I never planned to have a 
> child; I never had a child I didn’t love.”
>  
> I suppose you might say that people have kids because … you know…. sex, and 
> they love kids because they have them. 
>  
> Not sure reason has a lot do with it.  But if you want to be entirely 
> rational, the shadow-of-the-future argument dictates that nobody should ever 
> have children because sometime in the future there will be a generation in 
> which everybody dies.  Are you sure you want to be THAT rational?  
>  
> Nick 
>  
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ 
> <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>  
>  
> From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On 
> Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
> Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 11:09 AM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group  <mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF 
> City Hall; bring friends
>  
> Ed writes:
>  
> “For those of us concerned with economic development is a state which leads 
> in childhood poverty, the labs are not an asset, largely because of precisely 
> the points we agree on.”
>  
> Why people have kids when then have no means to support them continues to 
> baffle me.
> Los Alamos was chosen for Manhattan project because it remote and 
> inaccessible. 
>  
> Marcus
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
> <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com>
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ 
> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/>
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
> <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> by Dr. Strangelove


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Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[thompnickson2]

Marcus,

 

People have kids because they have hopes; people with more fears than hopes, 
probably don’t have kids.  

 

On the other hand, there’s what my father said when, I, at the age of 40, 
observed that I appeared to have been … a “caboose”.  “Son,” he said, as if he 
had been planning what to say for 40 years.  “I never planned to have a child; 
I never had a child I didn’t love.”

 

I suppose you might say that people have kids because … you know…. sex, and 
they love kids because they have them. 

 

Not sure reason has a lot do with it.  But if you want to be entirely rational, 
the shadow-of-the-future argument dictates that nobody should ever have 
children because sometime in the future there will be a generation in which 
everybody dies.  Are you sure you want to be THAT rational?  

 

Nick 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 11:09 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF 
City Hall; bring friends

 

Ed writes:

 

“For those of us concerned with economic development is a state which leads in 
childhood poverty, the labs are not an asset, largely because of precisely the 
points we agree on.”

 

Why people have kids when then have no means to support them continues to 
baffle me.

Los Alamos was chosen for Manhattan project because it remote and inaccessible. 

 

Marcus


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Steven A Smith]

Merle, et al -

Though I reject most of the extreme arguments I hear on both sides of
this issue, my instinct is that it would be better if Santa Fe did NOT
invite LANL/NNSA into the development of this critical/central/prime
location in the heart of *greater* Santa Fe.  

I've been living in a variant of this  high-dimensional, nonlinear,
sometimes subtle and nuanced question all of my (adult) life.   I came
to LANL at 24 as a technophilic peacenik who believed MAD made sense
(1980) and was happy to ensure that WE had the BIG STICK.  I raised two
children In Los Alamos and finally left in 2008 (27 years later) after
Bechtel took over, remaining in the region and in high-tech work.  
Along the way I was confronted with *many* changes in the international
political, cultural and scientific landscape.   The end of the Cold War
and nuclear testing, a nuclear arms-race between India/Pakistan, two
Gulf Wars, a deep and abiding awareness of the reality and threat of
Climate Change (and other parallel Endogenous Existential Threats).

I went through a few personal transformations as well, including
shepherding my two daughters into maturity along the way.  My opinions
have become much stronger, broader and more nuanced over the years and I
am thankful to have had the perspective offered through the rich
gradients formed by our "tri-cultural heritage".   LANL is much
more/less than a traditional "Anglo" company town and the work that goes
on there is much more/less than virtually any other facility.  Adding Pu
Pit production has expanded that yet more, while the unfathomably deep
explorations into what may very well represent an array of  other
technological *existential threats*.  Possibly equally important
sociopolitically, is the role of Santa Fe (and San Juan Pueblo before
it) as a locus of European Conquest, including the Pueblo Revolt (I can
see Black Mesa from my window as I type). 

I agree with most of Ed's assertions about the variability of quality of
the work at LANL, and certainly question the average "value received"
with such outrageous overheads and oft isolated efforts.  I also agree
with his summary of the net socioeconomic impact on the region/state.  
While I was (am via legacy savings and local available services) a
beneficiary of the very large amount of money pumped into the region, I
see the deleterious effects of it.  

With my renewed interest and awareness in the "Endogenous Existential
Threats" of our time, I am more sensitive to the callousness of many of
the people and programs at LANL toward the local and global
environment.   The bulk of the memoir Frank urged me to write (to save
the list from my TMI/TL;DR posts?) would be armatured around this braid
of interesting (in every sense of the word) paradoxes and contradictions.  

I think New Mexico's legacy around Science and Technology is real and
meaningful, but has also been highly distorted by the influence of
government (and specifically Defense-related) money.

Carry On,

 - Steve

On 1/13/20 2:41 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: *Leslie Lakind*  >
> Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM
> Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall;
> bring friends
> To:
>
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: *Greg Mello* mailto:gme...@lasg.org>>
>
>
>
> Permalink for this
> letter. /*Please forward!* /Other Letters
> 
> Home page ; Press Releases
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> Contribute. Volunteer. Contact us
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> ) -- please come, and please
> recruit others
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> *Dear New Mexico friends –
> *
>
> As we have explained in previous letters
> , Wednesday is the day on
> which the City will announce the finalists for "Master Developer" of
> the former College of Santa 

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Marcus Daniels]

Ed writes:

“For those of us concerned with economic development is a state which leads in 
childhood poverty, the labs are not an asset, largely because of precisely the 
points we agree on.”

Why people have kids when then have no means to support them continues to 
baffle me.
Los Alamos was chosen for Manhattan project because it remote and inaccessible.

Marcus

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Angel Edward]

I agree with your observations. The problem is that your fix is exactly what is 
happening with our best students. They leave. 

For those of us concerned with economic development is a state which leads in 
childhood poverty, the labs are not an asset, largely because of precisely the 
points we agree on. And that’s not commenting on the ethical issues or on 
whether society at large should support the labs through our taxes.

One helpful fix for the state/city is not to consider the labs as a source of 
expertise on economic development.

Ed
__

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home) edward.an...@gmail.com
505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel

> On Jan 14, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Marcus Daniels  wrote:
> 
> Ed writes:
>  
> “In area in which I’ve worked, there have been large expensive projects at 
> the labs, the quality has been mediocre and the labs are almost totally 
> unrepresented in open conferences and journals. A related issue is that the 
> cost of doing science at the labs is ridiculously high, another consequence 
> of their welfare status. Under the present management, many of the scientists 
> have to seek external funding but the cost of a lab scientist is usually two 
> to three times higher than for a university researcher. Not a good argument 
> for bringing a lab to SF.”
>  
> Generally, it is not practical to be funded at LANL without the DOE (or DOD) 
> funding structure.   That leads to a tendency for staff to attach themselves 
> to large block-funded projects (or money drained from block-funded projects) 
> which may have dubious technical leadership.  Even some senior scientists 
> have to do this.  
>  
> For physicists and computational people that work 30 or 40 years at the lab, 
> and like that lifestyle – recognizing they will have to cooperate with some 
> projects they don’t care about – LANL is a decent place to do that.   A long 
> career has opportunities that come and go and come back.  The whole system 
> has been built to raise a family on a single income and, unlike LLNL, there’s 
> a recognition it is the only real game in town.  Santa Fe, Los Alamos, and 
> Albuquerque will probably continue to be how they are for decades, and it 
> won’t be like Seattle or San Francisco.   There’s a fix for that:  Moving.
>  
> Marcus
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
> 
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ 
> 
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
>  by Dr. Strangelove


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Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Marcus Daniels]

Ed writes:

“In area in which I’ve worked, there have been large expensive projects at the 
labs, the quality has been mediocre and the labs are almost totally 
unrepresented in open conferences and journals. A related issue is that the 
cost of doing science at the labs is ridiculously high, another consequence of 
their welfare status. Under the present management, many of the scientists have 
to seek external funding but the cost of a lab scientist is usually two to 
three times higher than for a university researcher. Not a good argument for 
bringing a lab to SF.”

Generally, it is not practical to be funded at LANL without the DOE (or DOD) 
funding structure.   That leads to a tendency for staff to attach themselves to 
large block-funded projects (or money drained from block-funded projects) which 
may have dubious technical leadership.  Even some senior scientists have to do 
this.

For physicists and computational people that work 30 or 40 years at the lab, 
and like that lifestyle – recognizing they will have to cooperate with some 
projects they don’t care about – LANL is a decent place to do that.   A long 
career has opportunities that come and go and come back.  The whole system has 
been built to raise a family on a single income and, unlike LLNL, there’s a 
recognition it is the only real game in town.  Santa Fe, Los Alamos, and 
Albuquerque will probably continue to be how they are for decades, and it won’t 
be like Seattle or San Francisco.   There’s a fix for that:  Moving.

Marcus

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[thompnickson2]

Hi, Merle,

 

I have do doubt that there were (are) a lot of War Heads up at Lanl.  But your 
characterization just seems too …sweeping.  LANL will follow the money, so it’s 
up to us to determine what they are given money for.  So let’s say we change 
the constitution and elect Greta Thuneberg president.  Is there any particular 
reason that LANL-SF could not become C-CIR – The Center for Climate Impacts 
Remediation?  

 

Nick

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 7:43 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF 
City Hall; bring friends

 

Sorry, George.  There's a bigger picture here.  I went to CNLS because I could 
work with complex systems scientists who were not doing weapons work, and I had 
access to post-docs from all over the world (not true any more).  But Lanl is 
what it is, and it's stupidly but not unexpectedly, building parts for new 
nuclear weapons.  

 

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 11:01 PM George Duncan mailto:gtdun...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Based on my experience at LANL, Marcus’s assessments are correct. Indeed much 
of LANL activity involves basic science that most of us would find quite 
laudable. And many in its   technical staff are our neighbors. 

 

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:33 PM Marcus Daniels mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com> > wrote:

< There are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL specializes in 
taxpayer ripoffs. >

 

I am confident the use of such a property would be for science, administration, 
and outreach & training functions, not secure national work.   It would 
probably make a lot of LANL employees happy, as many of them live in Santa Fe.  
  Anyway, get real, if it wasn't for all the federal money, cities in New 
Mexico would collapse, there would be no SFI, etc.  

 

Marcus

  _  

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > on 
behalf of Merle Lefkoff mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com> 
>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 2:41 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group mailto:friam@redfish.com> >
Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City 
Hall; bring friends 

 

 

 

-- Forwarded message -
From: Leslie Lakind mailto:leftielak...@gmail.com> >
Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM
Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall; bring 
friends
To: 

 

 

-- Forwarded message -
From: Greg Mello mailto:gme...@lasg.org> >

 

Permalink <http://www.lasg.org/letters/2020/nm_12Jan2020.html>  for this 
letter. Please forward! Other Letters 
<http://www.lasg.org/letters/letters.html> 
Home page <http://lasg.org/index.htm> ; Press Releases 
<http://www.lasg.org/press/PressReleases.html> ; Bulletins 
<http://www.lasg.org/ActionAlerts/action.htm> ;
To subscribe to our Friends listserve (formerly by invitation only) send a 
blank email here. <mailto:lasg_friends-subscr...@lists.riseup.net>  To 
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<mailto:lasg_friends-unsubscr...@lists.riseup.net>  
To subscribe to our Main listserve (less content, less frequent) send a blank 
email here. <mailto:lasg-subscr...@lists.riseup.net>  To unsubscribe send a 
blank email here.  <mailto:lasg-unsubscr...@lists.riseup.net> 
Our blog (makeover coming!):  <http://lasg.org/wordpress/> Remember your 
Humanity. Twitter: @TrishABQ <https://twitter.com/#%21/TrishABQ> . 
Contribute. <http://www.lasg.org/contribute.htm>  Volunteer. Contact us (Greg 
and Trish in our main office <http://www.lasg.org/contact.htm> , Lydia Clark in 
our Santa Fe office <mailto:clark4...@msn.com> )

This letter: Press conference outside Santa Fe City Hall at noon on Wednesday 
Jan. 15 (map <https://goo.gl/maps/ycyfawsEqEYzu3wG9> ) -- please come, and 
please recruit others

Dear New Mexico friends – 

As we have explained in previous letters 
<http://www.lasg.org/letters/letters.html> , Wednesday is the day on which the 
City will announce the finalists for "Master Developer" of the former College 
of Santa Fe site (and possibly surrounding properties as well, a 64- to 
~100-acre project). The National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) has 
applied for this role. NNSA and/or Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) are 
present in some (not all) other proposals, as tenant(s). 

The situation is opaque, fluid, and developing. So far, Mayor Webber has 
disdainfully rebuffed our requests to meet or discuss the momentous social, 
cultural, and economic development impacts of placing a nuclea

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Edward Angel]

it.)   Smart public relations for 
> LANL if they can pull it off.
> 
>  
> 
> From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on 
> behalf of Frank Wimberly mailto:wimber...@gmail.com>>
> Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
> Date: Monday, January 13, 2020 at 7:41 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group  <mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF 
> City Hall; bring friends
> 
>  
> 
> In Pittsburgh I worked with a man who had formerly worked at LANL in plasma 
> physics.  When I told him about my relationship to NM he said the it is a 
> state on welfare.  He was referring to the percentage of that State's economy 
> based on Federal $$.  Highest in the US?  I am aware of many projects at LANL 
> that are not about weapons but others know more about that than I.
> 
> ---
> Frank Wimberly
> 
> Phone (505) 670-9918
> 
>  
> 
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 8:33 PM Marcus Daniels  <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
> 
> < There are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL specializes in 
> taxpayer ripoffs. >
> 
>  
> 
> I am confident the use of such a property would be for science, 
> administration, and outreach & training functions, not secure national work.  
>  It would probably make a lot of LANL employees happy, as many of them live 
> in Santa Fe.Anyway, get real, if it wasn't for all the federal money, 
> cities in New Mexico would collapse, there would be no SFI, etc. 
> 
>  
> 
> Marcus
> 
> From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on 
> behalf of Merle Lefkoff  <mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com>>
> Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 2:41 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group  <mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
> Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City 
> Hall; bring friends
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Leslie Lakind mailto:leftielak...@gmail.com>>
> Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM
> Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall; bring 
> friends
> To:
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Greg Mello mailto:gme...@lasg.org>>
> 
>  
> 
> Permalink <http://www.lasg.org/letters/2020/nm_12Jan2020.html> for this 
> letter. Please forward! Other Letters 
> <http://www.lasg.org/letters/letters.html>
> Home page <http://lasg.org/index.htm>; Press Releases 
> <http://www.lasg.org/press/PressReleases.html>; Bulletins 
> <http://www.lasg.org/ActionAlerts/action.htm>;
> To subscribe to our Friends listserve (formerly by invitation only) send a 
> blank email here. <mailto:lasg_friends-subscr...@lists.riseup.net> To 
> unsubscribe send a blank email here.  
> <mailto:lasg_friends-unsubscr...@lists.riseup.net> 
> To subscribe to our Main listserve (less content, less frequent) send a blank 
> email here. <mailto:lasg-subscr...@lists.riseup.net> To unsubscribe send a 
> blank email here.  <mailto:lasg-unsubscr...@lists.riseup.net>
> Our blog (makeover coming!): Remember your Humanity 
> <http://lasg.org/wordpress/>. Twitter: @TrishABQ 
> <https://twitter.com/#%21/TrishABQ>. 
> Contribute. <http://www.lasg.org/contribute.htm> Volunteer. Contact us (Greg 
> and Trish in our main office <http://www.lasg.org/contact.htm>, Lydia Clark 
> in our Santa Fe office <mailto:clark4...@msn.com>)
> 
> This letter: Press conference outside Santa Fe City Hall at noon on Wednesday 
> Jan. 15 (map <https://goo.gl/maps/ycyfawsEqEYzu3wG9>) -- please come, and 
> please recruit others
> 
> Dear New Mexico friends –
> 
> As we have explained in previous letters 
> <http://www.lasg.org/letters/letters.html>, Wednesday is the day on which the 
> City will announce the finalists for "Master Developer" of the former College 
> of Santa Fe site (and possibly surrounding properties as well, a 64- to 
> ~100-acre project). The National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) has 
> applied for this role. NNSA and/or Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) are 
> present in some (not all) other proposals, as tenant(s).
> 
> The situation is opaque, fluid, and developing. So far, Mayor Webber has 
> disdainfully rebuffed our requests to meet or discuss the momentous social, 
> cultural, and economic development impacts of placing a nuclear weapons 
> campus in Santa Fe. (Don't be deceived -- that is exactly what LANL is a

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Prof David West]

Defense is already privatized. Contract military forces are just about equal in 
number to those in uniform. Contractors are supposedly in support rather than 
combat roles but the distinction is actual only within the US borders. 
Offshore, the distinction is a non-distinction. 

IMO - if Netanyahu nuked Iran, Pakistan and, maybe, north Korea, China and 
Russia, was overnight express the means to eliminate Israel as a habitat.

Far more likely, especially for Trump, would be a coordinated, preemptive 
strike against Quds and the Revolutionary Guard; on the, probably, mistaken 
assumption that absent the Praetorian, the government would fall and the 
regular military in Iran would stand down when confronted with a "popular 
uprising."

davew


On Tue, Jan 14, 2020, at 4:47 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> The only sure way to stop a bully is by force. There are a lot of ways to do 
> that. The weapons labs focus on one. Mostly, the private sector ends-up 
> developing others. It is a conspicuous difference. It is not so far- fetched 
> to me to imagine a future where defense is further privatized, like 
> firefighting is starting to be in California. It sounds terrible but the 
> current situation is pretty bad too.
> 
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
>> On Jan 14, 2020, at 7:18 AM, Frank Wimberly  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Agreed but I think Netanyahu is l 
>> more likely to nuke Iran than Trump is likely to* get away with* attacking 
>> anyone.
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>>  Frank Wimberly
>> 
>>  My memoir:
>> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>> 
>>  My scientific publications:
>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
>> 
>>  Phone (505) 670-9918
>> 
>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 8:08 AM Merle Lefkoff  wrote:
>>> I don't trust any government, especially ours at the present moment, to 
>>> have any moral compass.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 8:03 AM Frank Wimberly  wrote:
 North Korea, Pakistan, potentially Iran, Israel, Russia ... Do you trust 
 them to be as moral as you are? 
 
 I had a dream last night about being surrounded by Russians. When I awoke 
 I learned that they were hacking into Burisma.
 
 
 ---
  Frank Wimberly
 
  My memoir:
 https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
 
  My scientific publications:
 https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
 
  Phone (505) 670-9918
 
 On Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 7:43 AM Merle Lefkoff  wrote:
> Sorry, George. There's a bigger picture here. I went to CNLS because I 
> could work with complex systems scientists who were not doing weapons 
> work, and I had access to post-docs from all over the world (not true any 
> more). But Lanl is what it is, and it's stupidly but not unexpectedly, 
> building parts for new nuclear weapons. 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 11:01 PM George Duncan  wrote:
>> Based on my experience at LANL, Marcus’s assessments are correct. Indeed 
>> much of LANL activity involves basic science that most of us would find 
>> quite laudable. And many in its technical staff are our neighbors. 
>> 
>> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:33 PM Marcus Daniels  
>> wrote:
>>> < There are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL 
>>> specializes in taxpayer ripoffs. >
>>> 
>>> I am confident the use of such a property would be for science, 
>>> administration, and outreach & training functions, not secure national 
>>> work. It would probably make a lot of LANL employees happy, as many of 
>>> them live in Santa Fe. Anyway, get real, if it wasn't for all the 
>>> federal money, cities in New Mexico would collapse, there would be no 
>>> SFI, etc. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Marcus
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *From:* Friam  on behalf of Merle Lefkoff 
>>> 
>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 13, 2020 2:41 PM
>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>>> 
>>> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside 
>>> SF City Hall; bring friends 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- Forwarded message -
>>>  From: *Leslie Lakind* 
>>>  Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM
>>>  Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall; 
>>> bring friends
>>>  To: 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- Forwarded message -
>>>  From: *Greg Mello* 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 

>>> Permalink  for this 
>>> letter. **Please forward!* *Other Letters 
>>> 
>>> Home page ; Press Releases 
>>> ;  Bulletins 
>>> ;
>>> To subscribe to our Friends listserve (formerly by invitation only)  

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Marcus Daniels]

The only sure way to stop a bully is by force.  There are a lot of ways to do 
that.   The weapons labs focus on one.  Mostly, the private sector ends-up 
developing others.  It is a conspicuous difference.   It is not so far- fetched 
to me to imagine a future where defense is further privatized, like 
firefighting is starting to be in California.  It sounds terrible but the 
current situation is pretty bad too.

Marcus

On Jan 14, 2020, at 7:18 AM, Frank Wimberly  wrote:


Agreed but I think Netanyahu is l
more likely to nuke Iran than Trump is likely to get away with attacking anyone.

---
Frank Wimberly

My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly

My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2

Phone (505) 670-9918

On Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 8:08 AM Merle Lefkoff 
mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I don't trust any government, especially ours at the present moment, to have 
any moral compass.

On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 8:03 AM Frank Wimberly 
mailto:wimber...@gmail.com>> wrote:
North Korea, Pakistan, potentially Iran, Israel, Russia ...  Do you trust them 
to be as moral as you are?

I had a dream last night about being surrounded by Russians.  When I awoke I 
learned that they were hacking into Burisma.

---
Frank Wimberly

My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly

My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2

Phone (505) 670-9918

On Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 7:43 AM Merle Lefkoff 
mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Sorry, George.  There's a bigger picture here.  I went to CNLS because I could 
work with complex systems scientists who were not doing weapons work, and I had 
access to post-docs from all over the world (not true any more).  But Lanl is 
what it is, and it's stupidly but not unexpectedly, building parts for new 
nuclear weapons.

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 11:01 PM George Duncan 
mailto:gtdun...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Based on my experience at LANL, Marcus’s assessments are correct. Indeed much 
of LANL activity involves basic science that most of us would find quite 
laudable. And many in its   technical staff are our neighbors.

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:33 PM Marcus Daniels 
mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
< There are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL specializes in 
taxpayer ripoffs. >

I am confident the use of such a property would be for science, administration, 
and outreach & training functions, not secure national work.   It would 
probably make a lot of LANL employees happy, as many of them live in Santa Fe.  
  Anyway, get real, if it wasn't for all the federal money, cities in New 
Mexico would collapse, there would be no SFI, etc.

Marcus

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on 
behalf of Merle Lefkoff mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 2:41 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City 
Hall; bring friends



-- Forwarded message -
From: Leslie Lakind mailto:leftielak...@gmail.com>>
Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM
Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall; bring 
friends
To:




-- Forwarded message -
From: Greg Mello mailto:gme...@lasg.org>>




Permalink for this letter. 
Please forward! Other Letters
Home page; Press 
Releases; 
Bulletins;
To subscribe to our Friends listserve (formerly by invitation only) send a 
blank email here. To 
unsubscribe send a blank email here. 

To subscribe to our Main listserve (less content, less frequent) send a blank 
email here. To unsubscribe send a blank 
email here. 
Our blog (makeover coming!): Remember your 
Humanity. Twitter: 
@TrishABQ.
Contribute. Volunteer. Contact us (Greg and 
Trish in our main office, Lydia Clark in our 
Santa Fe office)

This letter: Press conference outside Santa Fe City Hall at noon on Wednesday 
Jan. 15 (map) -- please come, and please 
recruit others

Dear New Mexico friends –

As we have explained in previous 
letters, Wednesday is the day on 
which the City will announce the finalists for "Master Developer" of the former 
College of Santa Fe site (and possibly 

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Frank Wimberly]

Agreed but I think Netanyahu is l
more likely to nuke Iran than Trump is likely to* get away with* attacking
anyone.

---
Frank Wimberly

My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly

My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2

Phone (505) 670-9918

On Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 8:08 AM Merle Lefkoff  wrote:

> I don't trust any government, especially ours at the present moment, to
> have any moral compass.
>
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 8:03 AM Frank Wimberly 
> wrote:
>
>> North Korea, Pakistan, potentially Iran, Israel, Russia ...  Do you trust
>> them to be as moral as you are?
>>
>> I had a dream last night about being surrounded by Russians.  When I
>> awoke I learned that they were hacking into Burisma.
>>
>> ---
>> Frank Wimberly
>>
>> My memoir:
>> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>>
>> My scientific publications:
>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
>>
>> Phone (505) 670-9918
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 7:43 AM Merle Lefkoff 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, George.  There's a bigger picture here.  I went to CNLS because I
>>> could work with complex systems scientists who were not doing weapons work,
>>> and I had access to post-docs from all over the world (not true any more).
>>> But Lanl is what it is, and it's stupidly but not unexpectedly, building
>>> parts for new nuclear weapons.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 11:01 PM George Duncan 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Based on my experience at LANL, Marcus’s assessments are correct.
 Indeed much of LANL activity involves basic science that most of us would
 find quite laudable. And many in its   technical staff are our neighbors.

 On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:33 PM Marcus Daniels 
 wrote:

> < There are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL
> specializes in taxpayer ripoffs. >
>
> I am confident the use of such a property would be for science,
> administration, and outreach & training functions, not secure national
> work.   It would probably make a lot of LANL employees happy, as many of
> them live in Santa Fe.Anyway, get real, if it wasn't for all the
> federal money, cities in New Mexico would collapse, there would be no SFI,
> etc.
>
> Marcus
> --
> *From:* Friam  on behalf of Merle Lefkoff <
> merlelefk...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 13, 2020 2:41 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00
> outside SF City Hall; bring friends
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: *Leslie Lakind* 
> Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM
> Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall;
> bring friends
> To:
>
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: *Greg Mello* 
>
>
>
> Permalink  for
> this letter. *Please forward! *Other Letters
> 
> Home page ; Press Releases
> ; Bulletins
> ;
> To subscribe to our Friends listserve (formerly by invitation only) send
> a blank email here.  To
> unsubscribe send a blank email here.
> 
> To subscribe to our Main listserve (less content, less frequent) send
> a blank email here.  To unsubscribe send
> a blank email here. 
> Our blog (makeover coming!): *Remember your Humanity
> . *Twitter: @TrishABQ
> .
> Contribute.  Volunteer. Contact
> us (Greg and Trish in our main office
> , Lydia Clark in our Santa Fe office
> )
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *This letter: *
> *Press conference outside Santa Fe City Hall at noon on Wednesday Jan.
> 15 (map ) -- please come, and 
> please
> recruit others *
>
>
>
> *Dear New Mexico friends – *
> As we have explained in previous letters
> , Wednesday is the day on
> which the City will announce the finalists for "Master Developer" of the
> former College of Santa Fe site (and possibly surrounding properties as
> well, a 64- to ~100-acre project). The National Nuclear Security
> Administration (NNSA) has applied for this role. NNSA and/or Los Alamos
> National Laboratory (LANL) are present in some (not all) other proposals,
> as tenant(s).
>
> The situation is opaque, fluid, and developing. So far, Mayor Webber

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Marcus Daniels]

How about Donald Trump?   Lets face it, we are pretty much rolling the dice 
here.

Marcus

On Jan 14, 2020, at 7:03 AM, Frank Wimberly  wrote:


North Korea, Pakistan, potentially Iran, Israel, Russia ...  Do you trust them 
to be as moral as you are?

I had a dream last night about being surrounded by Russians.  When I awoke I 
learned that they were hacking into Burisma.

---
Frank Wimberly

My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly

My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2

Phone (505) 670-9918

On Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 7:43 AM Merle Lefkoff 
mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Sorry, George.  There's a bigger picture here.  I went to CNLS because I could 
work with complex systems scientists who were not doing weapons work, and I had 
access to post-docs from all over the world (not true any more).  But Lanl is 
what it is, and it's stupidly but not unexpectedly, building parts for new 
nuclear weapons.

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 11:01 PM George Duncan 
mailto:gtdun...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Based on my experience at LANL, Marcus’s assessments are correct. Indeed much 
of LANL activity involves basic science that most of us would find quite 
laudable. And many in its   technical staff are our neighbors.

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:33 PM Marcus Daniels 
mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
< There are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL specializes in 
taxpayer ripoffs. >

I am confident the use of such a property would be for science, administration, 
and outreach & training functions, not secure national work.   It would 
probably make a lot of LANL employees happy, as many of them live in Santa Fe.  
  Anyway, get real, if it wasn't for all the federal money, cities in New 
Mexico would collapse, there would be no SFI, etc.

Marcus

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on 
behalf of Merle Lefkoff mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 2:41 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City 
Hall; bring friends



-- Forwarded message -
From: Leslie Lakind mailto:leftielak...@gmail.com>>
Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM
Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall; bring 
friends
To:




-- Forwarded message -
From: Greg Mello mailto:gme...@lasg.org>>




Permalink for this letter. 
Please forward! Other Letters
Home page; Press 
Releases; 
Bulletins;
To subscribe to our Friends listserve (formerly by invitation only) send a 
blank email here. To 
unsubscribe send a blank email here. 

To subscribe to our Main listserve (less content, less frequent) send a blank 
email here. To unsubscribe send a blank 
email here. 
Our blog (makeover coming!): Remember your 
Humanity. Twitter: 
@TrishABQ.
Contribute. Volunteer. Contact us (Greg and 
Trish in our main office, Lydia Clark in our 
Santa Fe office)

This letter: Press conference outside Santa Fe City Hall at noon on Wednesday 
Jan. 15 (map) -- please come, and please 
recruit others

Dear New Mexico friends –

As we have explained in previous 
letters, Wednesday is the day on 
which the City will announce the finalists for "Master Developer" of the former 
College of Santa Fe site (and possibly surrounding properties as well, a 64- to 
~100-acre project). The National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) has 
applied for this role. NNSA and/or Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) are 
present in some (not all) other proposals, as tenant(s).

The situation is opaque, fluid, and developing. So far, Mayor Webber has 
disdainfully rebuffed our requests to meet or discuss the momentous social, 
cultural, and economic development impacts of placing a nuclear weapons campus 
in Santa Fe. (Don't be deceived -- that is exactly what LANL is and what this 
would be.)

People power may be the only force stronger than LANL's money and corruption. 
We really need you to help us expand our numbers.

If you live anywhere nearby please come to this joint press conference, and 
please ask as many friends to come as possible. Sheer attendance matters. A 
strong showing Wednesday will save countless hours of work later, and will 

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Merle Lefkoff]

I don't trust any government, especially ours at the present moment, to
have any moral compass.

On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 8:03 AM Frank Wimberly  wrote:

> North Korea, Pakistan, potentially Iran, Israel, Russia ...  Do you trust
> them to be as moral as you are?
>
> I had a dream last night about being surrounded by Russians.  When I awoke
> I learned that they were hacking into Burisma.
>
> ---
> Frank Wimberly
>
> My memoir:
> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>
> My scientific publications:
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
>
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 7:43 AM Merle Lefkoff 
> wrote:
>
>> Sorry, George.  There's a bigger picture here.  I went to CNLS because I
>> could work with complex systems scientists who were not doing weapons work,
>> and I had access to post-docs from all over the world (not true any more).
>> But Lanl is what it is, and it's stupidly but not unexpectedly, building
>> parts for new nuclear weapons.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 11:01 PM George Duncan 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Based on my experience at LANL, Marcus’s assessments are correct. Indeed
>>> much of LANL activity involves basic science that most of us would find
>>> quite laudable. And many in its   technical staff are our neighbors.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:33 PM Marcus Daniels 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 < There are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL
 specializes in taxpayer ripoffs. >

 I am confident the use of such a property would be for science,
 administration, and outreach & training functions, not secure national
 work.   It would probably make a lot of LANL employees happy, as many of
 them live in Santa Fe.Anyway, get real, if it wasn't for all the
 federal money, cities in New Mexico would collapse, there would be no SFI,
 etc.

 Marcus
 --
 *From:* Friam  on behalf of Merle Lefkoff <
 merlelefk...@gmail.com>
 *Sent:* Monday, January 13, 2020 2:41 PM
 *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
 friam@redfish.com>
 *Subject:* [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside
 SF City Hall; bring friends



 -- Forwarded message -
 From: *Leslie Lakind* 
 Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM
 Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall;
 bring friends
 To:




 -- Forwarded message -
 From: *Greg Mello* 



 Permalink  for
 this letter. *Please forward! *Other Letters
 
 Home page ; Press Releases
 ; Bulletins
 ;
 To subscribe to our Friends listserve (formerly by invitation only) send
 a blank email here.  To
 unsubscribe send a blank email here.
 
 To subscribe to our Main listserve (less content, less frequent) send
 a blank email here.  To unsubscribe send
 a blank email here. 
 Our blog (makeover coming!): *Remember your Humanity
 . *Twitter: @TrishABQ
 .
 Contribute.  Volunteer. Contact us
 (Greg and Trish in our main office , Lydia
 Clark in our Santa Fe office )








 *This letter: *
 *Press conference outside Santa Fe City Hall at noon on Wednesday Jan.
 15 (map ) -- please come, and please
 recruit others *



 *Dear New Mexico friends – *
 As we have explained in previous letters
 , Wednesday is the day on
 which the City will announce the finalists for "Master Developer" of the
 former College of Santa Fe site (and possibly surrounding properties as
 well, a 64- to ~100-acre project). The National Nuclear Security
 Administration (NNSA) has applied for this role. NNSA and/or Los Alamos
 National Laboratory (LANL) are present in some (not all) other proposals,
 as tenant(s).

 The situation is opaque, fluid, and developing. So far, Mayor Webber
 has disdainfully rebuffed our requests to meet or discuss the momentous
 social, cultural, and economic development impacts of placing a nuclear
 weapons campus in Santa Fe. (Don't be deceived -- that is exactly what LANL
 is and what this would be.)

 People power may be the only force stronger than LANL's money and
 corruption. We really need you to help us expand our numbers.

 If you live *anywhere* nearby please come to this joint press
 conference, and please ask as many 

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Frank Wimberly]

North Korea, Pakistan, potentially Iran, Israel, Russia ...  Do you trust
them to be as moral as you are?

I had a dream last night about being surrounded by Russians.  When I awoke
I learned that they were hacking into Burisma.

---
Frank Wimberly

My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly

My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2

Phone (505) 670-9918

On Tue, Jan 14, 2020, 7:43 AM Merle Lefkoff  wrote:

> Sorry, George.  There's a bigger picture here.  I went to CNLS because I
> could work with complex systems scientists who were not doing weapons work,
> and I had access to post-docs from all over the world (not true any more).
> But Lanl is what it is, and it's stupidly but not unexpectedly, building
> parts for new nuclear weapons.
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 11:01 PM George Duncan  wrote:
>
>> Based on my experience at LANL, Marcus’s assessments are correct. Indeed
>> much of LANL activity involves basic science that most of us would find
>> quite laudable. And many in its   technical staff are our neighbors.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:33 PM Marcus Daniels 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> < There are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL specializes
>>> in taxpayer ripoffs. >
>>>
>>> I am confident the use of such a property would be for science,
>>> administration, and outreach & training functions, not secure national
>>> work.   It would probably make a lot of LANL employees happy, as many of
>>> them live in Santa Fe.Anyway, get real, if it wasn't for all the
>>> federal money, cities in New Mexico would collapse, there would be no SFI,
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>> --
>>> *From:* Friam  on behalf of Merle Lefkoff <
>>> merlelefk...@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 13, 2020 2:41 PM
>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>>> friam@redfish.com>
>>> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside
>>> SF City Hall; bring friends
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Forwarded message -
>>> From: *Leslie Lakind* 
>>> Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM
>>> Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall;
>>> bring friends
>>> To:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Forwarded message -
>>> From: *Greg Mello* 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Permalink  for this
>>> letter. *Please forward! *Other Letters
>>> 
>>> Home page ; Press Releases
>>> ; Bulletins
>>> ;
>>> To subscribe to our Friends listserve (formerly by invitation only) send
>>> a blank email here.  To
>>> unsubscribe send a blank email here.
>>> 
>>> To subscribe to our Main listserve (less content, less frequent) send a
>>> blank email here.  To unsubscribe send
>>> a blank email here. 
>>> Our blog (makeover coming!): *Remember your Humanity
>>> . *Twitter: @TrishABQ
>>> .
>>> Contribute.  Volunteer. Contact us (Greg
>>> and Trish in our main office , Lydia
>>> Clark in our Santa Fe office )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *This letter: *
>>> *Press conference outside Santa Fe City Hall at noon on Wednesday Jan.
>>> 15 (map ) -- please come, and please
>>> recruit others *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Dear New Mexico friends – *
>>> As we have explained in previous letters
>>> , Wednesday is the day on
>>> which the City will announce the finalists for "Master Developer" of the
>>> former College of Santa Fe site (and possibly surrounding properties as
>>> well, a 64- to ~100-acre project). The National Nuclear Security
>>> Administration (NNSA) has applied for this role. NNSA and/or Los Alamos
>>> National Laboratory (LANL) are present in some (not all) other proposals,
>>> as tenant(s).
>>>
>>> The situation is opaque, fluid, and developing. So far, Mayor Webber has
>>> disdainfully rebuffed our requests to meet or discuss the momentous social,
>>> cultural, and economic development impacts of placing a nuclear weapons
>>> campus in Santa Fe. (Don't be deceived -- that is exactly what LANL is and
>>> what this would be.)
>>>
>>> People power may be the only force stronger than LANL's money and
>>> corruption. We really need you to help us expand our numbers.
>>>
>>> If you live *anywhere* nearby please come to this joint press
>>> conference, and please ask as many friends to come as possible. Sheer
>>> attendance matters. A strong showing Wednesday will save countless hours of
>>> work later, and will give wings to efforts to push back on LANL's entirely
>>> unjustified expansion. There are many powerful people in Washington who
>>> know LANL specializes 

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Merle Lefkoff]

Sorry, George.  There's a bigger picture here.  I went to CNLS because I
could work with complex systems scientists who were not doing weapons work,
and I had access to post-docs from all over the world (not true any more).
But Lanl is what it is, and it's stupidly but not unexpectedly, building
parts for new nuclear weapons.

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 11:01 PM George Duncan  wrote:

> Based on my experience at LANL, Marcus’s assessments are correct. Indeed
> much of LANL activity involves basic science that most of us would find
> quite laudable. And many in its   technical staff are our neighbors.
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:33 PM Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
>> < There are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL specializes
>> in taxpayer ripoffs. >
>>
>> I am confident the use of such a property would be for science,
>> administration, and outreach & training functions, not secure national
>> work.   It would probably make a lot of LANL employees happy, as many of
>> them live in Santa Fe.Anyway, get real, if it wasn't for all the
>> federal money, cities in New Mexico would collapse, there would be no SFI,
>> etc.
>>
>> Marcus
>> --
>> *From:* Friam  on behalf of Merle Lefkoff <
>> merlelefk...@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 13, 2020 2:41 PM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam@redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside
>> SF City Hall; bring friends
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> From: *Leslie Lakind* 
>> Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM
>> Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall;
>> bring friends
>> To:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> From: *Greg Mello* 
>>
>>
>>
>> Permalink  for this
>> letter. *Please forward! *Other Letters
>> 
>> Home page ; Press Releases
>> ; Bulletins
>> ;
>> To subscribe to our Friends listserve (formerly by invitation only) send
>> a blank email here.  To
>> unsubscribe send a blank email here.
>> 
>> To subscribe to our Main listserve (less content, less frequent) send a
>> blank email here.  To unsubscribe send
>> a blank email here. 
>> Our blog (makeover coming!): *Remember your Humanity
>> . *Twitter: @TrishABQ
>> .
>> Contribute.  Volunteer. Contact us (Greg
>> and Trish in our main office , Lydia
>> Clark in our Santa Fe office )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *This letter: *
>> *Press conference outside Santa Fe City Hall at noon on Wednesday Jan. 15
>> (map ) -- please come, and please
>> recruit others *
>>
>>
>>
>> *Dear New Mexico friends – *
>> As we have explained in previous letters
>> , Wednesday is the day on
>> which the City will announce the finalists for "Master Developer" of the
>> former College of Santa Fe site (and possibly surrounding properties as
>> well, a 64- to ~100-acre project). The National Nuclear Security
>> Administration (NNSA) has applied for this role. NNSA and/or Los Alamos
>> National Laboratory (LANL) are present in some (not all) other proposals,
>> as tenant(s).
>>
>> The situation is opaque, fluid, and developing. So far, Mayor Webber has
>> disdainfully rebuffed our requests to meet or discuss the momentous social,
>> cultural, and economic development impacts of placing a nuclear weapons
>> campus in Santa Fe. (Don't be deceived -- that is exactly what LANL is and
>> what this would be.)
>>
>> People power may be the only force stronger than LANL's money and
>> corruption. We really need you to help us expand our numbers.
>>
>> If you live *anywhere* nearby please come to this joint press
>> conference, and please ask as many friends to come as possible. Sheer
>> attendance matters. A strong showing Wednesday will save countless hours of
>> work later, and will give wings to efforts to push back on LANL's entirely
>> unjustified expansion. There are many powerful people in Washington who
>> know LANL specializes in taxpayer ripoffs. Some of them need to see some
>> spine from us out here to take to their bosses.
>>
>> New Mexico is being selected to be a nuclear weapons support and
>> sacrifice area. That now includes the Santa Fe metro area.
>>
>> We may not know know the outcome of this first Midtown Campus decision by
>> noon Wednesday but regardless of that we must seize the day.
>>
>> While it seems absurd that NNSA could be a possible "master developer,"
>> we can't be sure that Mayor Webber and the people around him wouldn't want
>> that -- or want, say, a training facility for plutonium workers. We just
>> 

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[uǝlƃ ☣]

I often worry that I'm morally compromised. Nuclear weapons are, I think, 
analogous to human germline engineering. On the one hand, it *seems* rightly 
taboo. But on the other hand, we all *know* someone, somewhere, sometime, will 
be less inclined to consider the consequences of their actions ... or, as in 
the case of He Jiankui 
,
 the consequences might be considered, but not thoroughly enough.

I have the same morally suspect reaction to de-platforming. On the one hand, 
anyone who would *want* to attend, say, a talk by Steve Bannon, seems like an 
idiot or a jerk to me. But should his views be taboo? Ultimately, I end up 
subscribing to context. Other good examples are psyops, cracking (white hat vs 
black hat), primate laboratories, antifa and the use of violence for political 
ends, etc. Black and white artificial discretization isn't very helpful. It's 
the particulars of any given question, in context, that matters.

Nuclear weapons work *does* belong on the planet, if for no other reason than 
to stay ahead of the implicit threat of its misuse.

On 1/13/20 8:36 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote:
> Nuclear weapons work--and Lanl is a nuclear weapons laboratory-- whether 
> research or training or administration doesn't belong anywhere on the planet.
-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Marcus Daniels]

Merle writes:

“I spent four years at CNLS as Guest Scientist and Affiliate.”

I worked at LANL for more than a decade.   I think it is a unique organization 
that has a lot of great people.   If you want to find a prototype for your 
flawed person template, I’m a perfect fit.  Maybe even better than you suggest.

It didn’t bother me at all to help sharpen sticks when I believed in the cause 
of the national experiment.   I liked it, maybe I was even well-suited for it.  
 But, in 2016 I realized that an alarming demographic in this country simply do 
not deserve the protection afforded by sticks so sharp.   No significant loss 
to LANL, but I was comforted to see more than few colleagues that felt the same 
way. I wish I could say I just quit, but it took a period of 
disillusionment mixed with other frustrations and opportunities.

Anyway, today I am glad to see Cory Booker drop out.   All this we-are-one is 
so much BS.

Marcus


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[George Duncan]

Based on my experience at LANL, Marcus’s assessments are correct. Indeed
much of LANL activity involves basic science that most of us would find
quite laudable. And many in its   technical staff are our neighbors.

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:33 PM Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> < There are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL specializes
> in taxpayer ripoffs. >
>
> I am confident the use of such a property would be for science,
> administration, and outreach & training functions, not secure national
> work.   It would probably make a lot of LANL employees happy, as many of
> them live in Santa Fe.Anyway, get real, if it wasn't for all the
> federal money, cities in New Mexico would collapse, there would be no SFI,
> etc.
>
> Marcus
> --
> *From:* Friam  on behalf of Merle Lefkoff <
> merlelefk...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 13, 2020 2:41 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF
> City Hall; bring friends
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: *Leslie Lakind* 
> Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM
> Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall; bring
> friends
> To:
>
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: *Greg Mello* 
>
>
>
> Permalink  for this
> letter. *Please forward! *Other Letters
> 
> Home page ; Press Releases
> ; Bulletins
> ;
> To subscribe to our Friends listserve (formerly by invitation only) send
> a blank email here.  To
> unsubscribe send a blank email here.
> 
> To subscribe to our Main listserve (less content, less frequent) send a
> blank email here.  To unsubscribe send a
> blank email here. 
> Our blog (makeover coming!): *Remember your Humanity
> . *Twitter: @TrishABQ
> .
> Contribute.  Volunteer. Contact us (Greg
> and Trish in our main office , Lydia
> Clark in our Santa Fe office )
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *This letter: *
> *Press conference outside Santa Fe City Hall at noon on Wednesday Jan. 15
> (map ) -- please come, and please
> recruit others *
>
>
>
> *Dear New Mexico friends – *
> As we have explained in previous letters
> , Wednesday is the day on which
> the City will announce the finalists for "Master Developer" of the former
> College of Santa Fe site (and possibly surrounding properties as well, a
> 64- to ~100-acre project). The National Nuclear Security Administration
> (NNSA) has applied for this role. NNSA and/or Los Alamos National
> Laboratory (LANL) are present in some (not all) other proposals, as
> tenant(s).
>
> The situation is opaque, fluid, and developing. So far, Mayor Webber has
> disdainfully rebuffed our requests to meet or discuss the momentous social,
> cultural, and economic development impacts of placing a nuclear weapons
> campus in Santa Fe. (Don't be deceived -- that is exactly what LANL is and
> what this would be.)
>
> People power may be the only force stronger than LANL's money and
> corruption. We really need you to help us expand our numbers.
>
> If you live *anywhere* nearby please come to this joint press conference,
> and please ask as many friends to come as possible. Sheer attendance
> matters. A strong showing Wednesday will save countless hours of work
> later, and will give wings to efforts to push back on LANL's entirely
> unjustified expansion. There are many powerful people in Washington who
> know LANL specializes in taxpayer ripoffs. Some of them need to see some
> spine from us out here to take to their bosses.
>
> New Mexico is being selected to be a nuclear weapons support and sacrifice
> area. That now includes the Santa Fe metro area.
>
> We may not know know the outcome of this first Midtown Campus decision by
> noon Wednesday but regardless of that we must seize the day.
>
> While it seems absurd that NNSA could be a possible "master developer," we
> can't be sure that Mayor Webber and the people around him wouldn't want
> that -- or want, say, a training facility for plutonium workers. We just
> don't know.
>
> This event will also give us a chance for us to network with each other
> and with representatives of any other groups present, as well as speak to
> any City officials willing to do so.
>
> *Getting people to come on Wednesday is the sole action item we are
> recommending right now. It is very, very important!  *
>
> Thank you!
>
> Greg, Trish, Lydia, Ernie, Michelle, and the rest of the Study Group
> --
>
> Greg Mello
> Los Alamos Study Group 
> 2901 Summit 

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Merle Lefkoff]

Yep.

Next week I'll be in Boulder at NREL.  They are engineers--not
scientists--but they have somehow kept going with some terrific work--under
the DOE radar.

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 10:40 PM Marcus Daniels 
wrote:

> In one e-mail you say that advocates for worthy non-profits have an
> obligation to redistribute money from those having ill-gotten gains, but in
> this case it “flawed human beings” “belong up on the hill”.It seems
> there is an ethical line in your mind after all.This is not to say that
> **I** think LANL has ill-gotten gains, but if **you** did, it seems to be
> exactly what you were suggesting:   As a LANL scientist (~ leader of a
> non-profit), one **should** seek a portion of the multi-billion dollar
> budget (~ Epstein riches) and do some science (~ good not bad thing) with
> it.
>
>
>
> It is voters in the US that have given LANL the primary role that it has
> had.   If voters don’t like that role, they should change their government.
>   I think voters do like and want that role, because they being a dominant
> country in the world.   A menacing military helps make it so.   Recently,
> many voters have been pretty overt about their predatory inclinations, with
> Trump’s walls and all that.
>
>
>
> LANL is a premier Department of Energy lab that without any huge
> structural changes could further advance climate prediction and mitigation,
> renewable energy, planetary defense, environmental cleanup, or pretty much
> anything.There will be hundreds if not thousands of staff up there that
> would love to diversify their priorities if given the opportunity.
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
> *From: *Friam  on behalf of Merle Lefkoff <
> merlelefk...@gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Date: *Monday, January 13, 2020 at 8:37 PM
> *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00
> outside SF City Hall; bring friends
>
>
>
> Marcus, I spent four years at CNLS as Guest Scientist and Affiliate.  I
> still wouldn't be O.K. if it were housed in Santa Fe.  Nuclear weapons
> work--and Lanl is a nuclear weapons laboratory-- whether research or
> training or administration doesn't belong anywhere on the planet.  But if
> it is going to be pursued by flawed human beings, it belongs up on the
> hill.  As many of us know, and you rightly point out, our local economy is
> in a far-from-equilibrium state.  Bringing more humane education of some
> kind to Santa Fe would provide a tiny bit more balance.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 9:06 PM Marcus Daniels 
> wrote:
>
> It would make sense to put an organization like the Center for Nonlinear
> Studies in Santa Fe.   Academics could fly in to the municipal airport,
> give a talk and leave without it being hours more of effort slogging up and
> down the hill.   Badging could be further streamlined, or maybe just
> eliminated.   Maybe they could even have public talks as there’d be no need
> for security hovering at all times.   A lot of foreign nationals don’t stay
> to be staff members, as is it advantageous to get a clearance (and a
> foreign national cannot).   If they diffused into the Santa Fe population,
> maybe they’d stay and create start-ups.   There is little reason to live in
> Los Alamos, as there just is nothing up there, economically speaking,
> except the company.  (Ok, they have good schools, but that’s it.)   Smart
> public relations for LANL if they can pull it off.
>
>
>
> *From: *Friam  on behalf of Frank Wimberly <
> wimber...@gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Date: *Monday, January 13, 2020 at 7:41 PM
> *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00
> outside SF City Hall; bring friends
>
>
>
> In Pittsburgh I worked with a man who had formerly worked at LANL in
> plasma physics.  When I told him about my relationship to NM he said the it
> is a state on welfare.  He was referring to the percentage of that State's
> economy based on Federal $$.  Highest in the US?  I am aware of many
> projects at LANL that are not about weapons but others know more about that
> than I.
>
> ---
> Frank Wimberly
>
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 8:33 PM Marcus Daniels  wrote:
>
> < There are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL specializes
> in taxpayer ripoffs. >
>
>
>
> I am confident the us

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Marcus Daniels]

In one e-mail you say that advocates for worthy non-profits have an obligation 
to redistribute money from those having ill-gotten gains, but in this case it 
“flawed human beings” “belong up on the hill”.It seems there is an ethical 
line in your mind after all.This is not to say that *I* think LANL has 
ill-gotten gains, but if *you* did, it seems to be exactly what you were 
suggesting:   As a LANL scientist (~ leader of a non-profit), one *should* seek 
a portion of the multi-billion dollar budget (~ Epstein riches) and do some 
science (~ good not bad thing) with it.

It is voters in the US that have given LANL the primary role that it has had.   
If voters don’t like that role, they should change their government.   I think 
voters do like and want that role, because they being a dominant country in the 
world.   A menacing military helps make it so.   Recently, many voters have 
been pretty overt about their predatory inclinations, with Trump’s walls and 
all that.

LANL is a premier Department of Energy lab that without any huge structural 
changes could further advance climate prediction and mitigation, renewable 
energy, planetary defense, environmental cleanup, or pretty much anything.
There will be hundreds if not thousands of staff up there that would love to 
diversify their priorities if given the opportunity.

Marcus
From: Friam  on behalf of Merle Lefkoff 

Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Date: Monday, January 13, 2020 at 8:37 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF 
City Hall; bring friends

Marcus, I spent four years at CNLS as Guest Scientist and Affiliate.  I still 
wouldn't be O.K. if it were housed in Santa Fe.  Nuclear weapons work--and Lanl 
is a nuclear weapons laboratory-- whether research or training or 
administration doesn't belong anywhere on the planet.  But if it is going to be 
pursued by flawed human beings, it belongs up on the hill.  As many of us know, 
and you rightly point out, our local economy is in a far-from-equilibrium 
state.  Bringing more humane education of some kind to Santa Fe would provide a 
tiny bit more balance.

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 9:06 PM Marcus Daniels 
mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
It would make sense to put an organization like the Center for Nonlinear 
Studies in Santa Fe.   Academics could fly in to the municipal airport, give a 
talk and leave without it being hours more of effort slogging up and down the 
hill.   Badging could be further streamlined, or maybe just eliminated.   Maybe 
they could even have public talks as there’d be no need for security hovering 
at all times.   A lot of foreign nationals don’t stay to be staff members, as 
is it advantageous to get a clearance (and a foreign national cannot).   If 
they diffused into the Santa Fe population, maybe they’d stay and create 
start-ups.   There is little reason to live in Los Alamos, as there just is 
nothing up there, economically speaking, except the company.  (Ok, they have 
good schools, but that’s it.)   Smart public relations for LANL if they can 
pull it off.

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on 
behalf of Frank Wimberly mailto:wimber...@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Date: Monday, January 13, 2020 at 7:41 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF 
City Hall; bring friends

In Pittsburgh I worked with a man who had formerly worked at LANL in plasma 
physics.  When I told him about my relationship to NM he said the it is a state 
on welfare.  He was referring to the percentage of that State's economy based 
on Federal $$.  Highest in the US?  I am aware of many projects at LANL that 
are not about weapons but others know more about that than I.
---
Frank Wimberly

Phone (505) 670-9918

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 8:33 PM Marcus Daniels 
mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
< There are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL specializes in 
taxpayer ripoffs. >

I am confident the use of such a property would be for science, administration, 
and outreach & training functions, not secure national work.   It would 
probably make a lot of LANL employees happy, as many of them live in Santa Fe.  
  Anyway, get real, if it wasn't for all the federal money, cities in New 
Mexico would collapse, there would be no SFI, etc.

Marcus

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on 
behalf of Merle Lefkoff mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 2:41 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN 

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Merle Lefkoff]

Marcus, I spent four years at CNLS as Guest Scientist and Affiliate.  I
still wouldn't be O.K. if it were housed in Santa Fe.  Nuclear weapons
work--and Lanl is a nuclear weapons laboratory-- whether research or
training or administration doesn't belong anywhere on the planet.  But if
it is going to be pursued by flawed human beings, it belongs up on the
hill.  As many of us know, and you rightly point out, our local economy is
in a far-from-equilibrium state.  Bringing more humane education of some
kind to Santa Fe would provide a tiny bit more balance.

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 9:06 PM Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> It would make sense to put an organization like the Center for Nonlinear
> Studies in Santa Fe.   Academics could fly in to the municipal airport,
> give a talk and leave without it being hours more of effort slogging up and
> down the hill.   Badging could be further streamlined, or maybe just
> eliminated.   Maybe they could even have public talks as there’d be no need
> for security hovering at all times.   A lot of foreign nationals don’t stay
> to be staff members, as is it advantageous to get a clearance (and a
> foreign national cannot).   If they diffused into the Santa Fe population,
> maybe they’d stay and create start-ups.   There is little reason to live in
> Los Alamos, as there just is nothing up there, economically speaking,
> except the company.  (Ok, they have good schools, but that’s it.)   Smart
> public relations for LANL if they can pull it off.
>
>
>
> *From: *Friam  on behalf of Frank Wimberly <
> wimber...@gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Date: *Monday, January 13, 2020 at 7:41 PM
> *To: *The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00
> outside SF City Hall; bring friends
>
>
>
> In Pittsburgh I worked with a man who had formerly worked at LANL in
> plasma physics.  When I told him about my relationship to NM he said the it
> is a state on welfare.  He was referring to the percentage of that State's
> economy based on Federal $$.  Highest in the US?  I am aware of many
> projects at LANL that are not about weapons but others know more about that
> than I.
>
> ---
> Frank Wimberly
>
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 8:33 PM Marcus Daniels  wrote:
>
> < There are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL specializes
> in taxpayer ripoffs. >
>
>
>
> I am confident the use of such a property would be for science,
> administration, and outreach & training functions, not secure national
> work.   It would probably make a lot of LANL employees happy, as many of
> them live in Santa Fe.Anyway, get real, if it wasn't for all the
> federal money, cities in New Mexico would collapse, there would be no SFI,
> etc.
>
>
>
> Marcus
> --
>
> *From:* Friam  on behalf of Merle Lefkoff <
> merlelefk...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 13, 2020 2:41 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF
> City Hall; bring friends
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: *Leslie Lakind* 
> Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM
> Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall; bring
> friends
> To:
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: *Greg Mello* 
>
>
>
> Permalink <http://www.lasg.org/letters/2020/nm_12Jan2020.html> for this
> letter. *Please forward!* Other Letters
> <http://www.lasg.org/letters/letters.html>
> Home page <http://lasg.org/index.htm>; Press Releases
> <http://www.lasg.org/press/PressReleases.html>; Bulletins
> <http://www.lasg.org/ActionAlerts/action.htm>;
> To subscribe to our Friends listserve (formerly by invitation only) send
> a blank email here.  To
> unsubscribe send a blank email here.
> 
> To subscribe to our Main listserve (less content, less frequent) send a
> blank email here.  To unsubscribe send a
> blank email here. 
> Our blog (makeover coming!): *Remember your Humanity
> <http://lasg.org/wordpress/>. *Twitter: @TrishABQ
> <https://twitter.com/#%21/TrishABQ>.
> Contribute. <http://www.lasg.org/contribute.htm> Volunteer. Contact us (Greg
> and Trish in our main office <http://www.lasg.org/contact.htm>, Lydia
> Clark in our Santa Fe office )
>
> *This letter: Press conference outside Santa Fe City Hall at noon on
> We

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Marcus Daniels]

It would make sense to put an organization like the Center for Nonlinear 
Studies in Santa Fe.   Academics could fly in to the municipal airport, give a 
talk and leave without it being hours more of effort slogging up and down the 
hill.   Badging could be further streamlined, or maybe just eliminated.   Maybe 
they could even have public talks as there’d be no need for security hovering 
at all times.   A lot of foreign nationals don’t stay to be staff members, as 
is it advantageous to get a clearance (and a foreign national cannot).   If 
they diffused into the Santa Fe population, maybe they’d stay and create 
start-ups.   There is little reason to live in Los Alamos, as there just is 
nothing up there, economically speaking, except the company.  (Ok, they have 
good schools, but that’s it.)   Smart public relations for LANL if they can 
pull it off.

From: Friam  on behalf of Frank Wimberly 

Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Date: Monday, January 13, 2020 at 7:41 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF 
City Hall; bring friends

In Pittsburgh I worked with a man who had formerly worked at LANL in plasma 
physics.  When I told him about my relationship to NM he said the it is a state 
on welfare.  He was referring to the percentage of that State's economy based 
on Federal $$.  Highest in the US?  I am aware of many projects at LANL that 
are not about weapons but others know more about that than I.
---
Frank Wimberly

Phone (505) 670-9918

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 8:33 PM Marcus Daniels 
mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
< There are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL specializes in 
taxpayer ripoffs. >

I am confident the use of such a property would be for science, administration, 
and outreach & training functions, not secure national work.   It would 
probably make a lot of LANL employees happy, as many of them live in Santa Fe.  
  Anyway, get real, if it wasn't for all the federal money, cities in New 
Mexico would collapse, there would be no SFI, etc.

Marcus

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> on 
behalf of Merle Lefkoff mailto:merlelefk...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 2:41 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City 
Hall; bring friends



-- Forwarded message -
From: Leslie Lakind mailto:leftielak...@gmail.com>>
Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM
Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall; bring 
friends
To:


-- Forwarded message -
From: Greg Mello mailto:gme...@lasg.org>>


Permalink<http://www.lasg.org/letters/2020/nm_12Jan2020.html> for this letter. 
Please forward! Other Letters<http://www.lasg.org/letters/letters.html>
Home page<http://lasg.org/index.htm>; Press 
Releases<http://www.lasg.org/press/PressReleases.html>; 
Bulletins<http://www.lasg.org/ActionAlerts/action.htm>;
To subscribe to our Friends listserve (formerly by invitation only) send a 
blank email here.<mailto:lasg_friends-subscr...@lists.riseup.net> To 
unsubscribe send a blank email here. 
<mailto:lasg_friends-unsubscr...@lists.riseup.net>
To subscribe to our Main listserve (less content, less frequent) send a blank 
email here.<mailto:lasg-subscr...@lists.riseup.net> To unsubscribe send a blank 
email here. <mailto:lasg-unsubscr...@lists.riseup.net>
Our blog (makeover coming!): Remember your 
Humanity<http://lasg.org/wordpress/>. Twitter: 
@TrishABQ<https://twitter.com/#%21/TrishABQ>.
Contribute.<http://www.lasg.org/contribute.htm> Volunteer. Contact us (Greg and 
Trish in our main office<http://www.lasg.org/contact.htm>, Lydia Clark in our 
Santa Fe office<mailto:clark4...@msn.com>)
This letter: Press conference outside Santa Fe City Hall at noon on Wednesday 
Jan. 15 (map<https://goo.gl/maps/ycyfawsEqEYzu3wG9>) -- please come, and please 
recruit others

Dear New Mexico friends –
As we have explained in previous 
letters<http://www.lasg.org/letters/letters.html>, Wednesday is the day on 
which the City will announce the finalists for "Master Developer" of the former 
College of Santa Fe site (and possibly surrounding properties as well, a 64- to 
~100-acre project). The National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) has 
applied for this role. NNSA and/or Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) are 
present in some (not all) other proposals, as tenant(s).

The situation is opaque, fluid, and developing. So far, Mayor Webber has 
disdainfully rebuffed our requests to meet or discuss the momentous social, 
cultural, and economic development impacts of placing a nuclear wea

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[thompnickson2]

Oh, Gosh, Merle.  Not sure I’m on your side on this one.  

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

  thompnicks...@gmail.com

  
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Merle Lefkoff
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 2:41 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City 
Hall; bring friends

 

 

 

-- Forwarded message -
From: Leslie Lakind mailto:leftielak...@gmail.com> >
Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM
Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall; bring 
friends
To: 

 

 

-- Forwarded message -
From: Greg Mello mailto:gme...@lasg.org> >

 

Permalink   for this 
letter. Please forward! Other Letters 
 
Home page  ; Press Releases 
 ; Bulletins 
 ;
To subscribe to our Friends listserve (formerly by invitation only) send a 
blank email here.   To 
unsubscribe send a blank email here.  
  
To subscribe to our Main listserve (less content, less frequent) send a blank 
email here.   To unsubscribe send a 
blank email here.   
Our blog (makeover coming!):   Remember your 
Humanity. Twitter: @TrishABQ  . 
Contribute.   Volunteer. Contact us (Greg 
and Trish in our main office  , Lydia Clark in 
our Santa Fe office  )

This letter: Press conference outside Santa Fe City Hall at noon on Wednesday 
Jan. 15 (map  ) -- please come, and 
please recruit others

Dear New Mexico friends – 

As we have explained in previous letters 
 , Wednesday is the day on which the 
City will announce the finalists for "Master Developer" of the former College 
of Santa Fe site (and possibly surrounding properties as well, a 64- to 
~100-acre project). The National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) has 
applied for this role. NNSA and/or Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) are 
present in some (not all) other proposals, as tenant(s). 

The situation is opaque, fluid, and developing. So far, Mayor Webber has 
disdainfully rebuffed our requests to meet or discuss the momentous social, 
cultural, and economic development impacts of placing a nuclear weapons campus 
in Santa Fe. (Don't be deceived -- that is exactly what LANL is and what this 
would be.)

People power may be the only force stronger than LANL's money and corruption. 
We really need you to help us expand our numbers. 

If you live anywhere nearby please come to this joint press conference, and 
please ask as many friends to come as possible. Sheer attendance matters. A 
strong showing Wednesday will save countless hours of work later, and will give 
wings to efforts to push back on LANL's entirely unjustified expansion. There 
are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL specializes in taxpayer 
ripoffs. Some of them need to see some spine from us out here to take to their 
bosses. 

New Mexico is being selected to be a nuclear weapons support and sacrifice 
area. That now includes the Santa Fe metro area. 

We may not know know the outcome of this first Midtown Campus decision by noon 
Wednesday but regardless of that we must seize the day. 

While it seems absurd that NNSA could be a possible "master developer," we 
can't be sure that Mayor Webber and the people around him wouldn't want that -- 
or want, say, a training facility for plutonium workers. We just don't know. 

This event will also give us a chance for us to network with each other and 
with representatives of any other groups present, as well as speak to any City 
officials willing to do so. 

Getting people to come on Wednesday is the sole action item we are recommending 
right now. It is very, very important!  

Thank you!

Greg, Trish, Lydia, Ernie, Michelle, and the rest of the Study Group

-- 

Greg Mello
Los Alamos Study Group  
2901 Summit Place NE
Albuquerque, NM 87106
505-265-1200 office
505-577-8563 cell

To subscribe to our Friends listserve send a blank email here. 
  To unsubscribe send a blank 
email here.   

To subscribe to our Main listserve (less frequent) send a blank email here. 
  To unsubscribe send a 

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Frank Wimberly]

In Pittsburgh I worked with a man who had formerly worked at LANL in plasma
physics.  When I told him about my relationship to NM he said the it is a
state on welfare.  He was referring to the percentage of that State's
economy based on Federal $$.  Highest in the US?  I am aware of many
projects at LANL that are not about weapons but others know more about that
than I.

---
Frank Wimberly

Phone (505) 670-9918

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020, 8:33 PM Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> < There are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL specializes
> in taxpayer ripoffs. >
>
> I am confident the use of such a property would be for science,
> administration, and outreach & training functions, not secure national
> work.   It would probably make a lot of LANL employees happy, as many of
> them live in Santa Fe.Anyway, get real, if it wasn't for all the
> federal money, cities in New Mexico would collapse, there would be no SFI,
> etc.
>
> Marcus
> --
> *From:* Friam  on behalf of Merle Lefkoff <
> merlelefk...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 13, 2020 2:41 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF
> City Hall; bring friends
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: *Leslie Lakind* 
> Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM
> Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall; bring
> friends
> To:
>
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: *Greg Mello* 
>
>
>
> Permalink  for this
> letter. *Please forward! *Other Letters
> 
> Home page ; Press Releases
> ; Bulletins
> ;
> To subscribe to our Friends listserve (formerly by invitation only) send
> a blank email here.  To
> unsubscribe send a blank email here.
> 
> To subscribe to our Main listserve (less content, less frequent) send a
> blank email here.  To unsubscribe send a
> blank email here. 
> Our blog (makeover coming!): *Remember your Humanity
> . *Twitter: @TrishABQ
> .
> Contribute.  Volunteer. Contact us (Greg
> and Trish in our main office , Lydia
> Clark in our Santa Fe office )
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *This letter: *
> *Press conference outside Santa Fe City Hall at noon on Wednesday Jan. 15
> (map ) -- please come, and please
> recruit others *
>
>
>
> *Dear New Mexico friends – *
> As we have explained in previous letters
> , Wednesday is the day on which
> the City will announce the finalists for "Master Developer" of the former
> College of Santa Fe site (and possibly surrounding properties as well, a
> 64- to ~100-acre project). The National Nuclear Security Administration
> (NNSA) has applied for this role. NNSA and/or Los Alamos National
> Laboratory (LANL) are present in some (not all) other proposals, as
> tenant(s).
>
> The situation is opaque, fluid, and developing. So far, Mayor Webber has
> disdainfully rebuffed our requests to meet or discuss the momentous social,
> cultural, and economic development impacts of placing a nuclear weapons
> campus in Santa Fe. (Don't be deceived -- that is exactly what LANL is and
> what this would be.)
>
> People power may be the only force stronger than LANL's money and
> corruption. We really need you to help us expand our numbers.
>
> If you live *anywhere* nearby please come to this joint press conference,
> and please ask as many friends to come as possible. Sheer attendance
> matters. A strong showing Wednesday will save countless hours of work
> later, and will give wings to efforts to push back on LANL's entirely
> unjustified expansion. There are many powerful people in Washington who
> know LANL specializes in taxpayer ripoffs. Some of them need to see some
> spine from us out here to take to their bosses.
>
> New Mexico is being selected to be a nuclear weapons support and sacrifice
> area. That now includes the Santa Fe metro area.
>
> We may not know know the outcome of this first Midtown Campus decision by
> noon Wednesday but regardless of that we must seize the day.
>
> While it seems absurd that NNSA could be a possible "master developer," we
> can't be sure that Mayor Webber and the people around him wouldn't want
> that -- or want, say, a training facility for plutonium workers. We just
> don't know.
>
> This event will also give us a chance for us to network with each other
> and with representatives of any other groups present, as well as speak to
> any City officials willing to do so.
>
> *Getting people to come on Wednesday is the sole action item we 

Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City Hall; bring friends

[Marcus Daniels]

< There are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL specializes in 
taxpayer ripoffs. >

I am confident the use of such a property would be for science, administration, 
and outreach & training functions, not secure national work.   It would 
probably make a lot of LANL employees happy, as many of them live in Santa Fe.  
  Anyway, get real, if it wasn't for all the federal money, cities in New 
Mexico would collapse, there would be no SFI, etc.

Marcus

From: Friam  on behalf of Merle Lefkoff 

Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 2:41 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 outside SF City 
Hall; bring friends



-- Forwarded message -
From: Leslie Lakind mailto:leftielak...@gmail.com>>
Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM
Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall; bring 
friends
To:




-- Forwarded message -
From: Greg Mello mailto:gme...@lasg.org>>




Permalink for this letter. 
Please forward! Other Letters
Home page; Press 
Releases; 
Bulletins;
To subscribe to our Friends listserve (formerly by invitation only) send a 
blank email here. To 
unsubscribe send a blank email here. 

To subscribe to our Main listserve (less content, less frequent) send a blank 
email here. To unsubscribe send a blank 
email here. 
Our blog (makeover coming!): Remember your 
Humanity. Twitter: 
@TrishABQ.
Contribute. Volunteer. Contact us (Greg and 
Trish in our main office, Lydia Clark in our 
Santa Fe office)

This letter: Press conference outside Santa Fe City Hall at noon on Wednesday 
Jan. 15 (map) -- please come, and please 
recruit others

Dear New Mexico friends –

As we have explained in previous 
letters, Wednesday is the day on 
which the City will announce the finalists for "Master Developer" of the former 
College of Santa Fe site (and possibly surrounding properties as well, a 64- to 
~100-acre project). The National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) has 
applied for this role. NNSA and/or Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) are 
present in some (not all) other proposals, as tenant(s).

The situation is opaque, fluid, and developing. So far, Mayor Webber has 
disdainfully rebuffed our requests to meet or discuss the momentous social, 
cultural, and economic development impacts of placing a nuclear weapons campus 
in Santa Fe. (Don't be deceived -- that is exactly what LANL is and what this 
would be.)

People power may be the only force stronger than LANL's money and corruption. 
We really need you to help us expand our numbers.

If you live anywhere nearby please come to this joint press conference, and 
please ask as many friends to come as possible. Sheer attendance matters. A 
strong showing Wednesday will save countless hours of work later, and will give 
wings to efforts to push back on LANL's entirely unjustified expansion. There 
are many powerful people in Washington who know LANL specializes in taxpayer 
ripoffs. Some of them need to see some spine from us out here to take to their 
bosses.

New Mexico is being selected to be a nuclear weapons support and sacrifice 
area. That now includes the Santa Fe metro area.

We may not know know the outcome of this first Midtown Campus decision by noon 
Wednesday but regardless of that we must seize the day.

While it seems absurd that NNSA could be a possible "master developer," we 
can't be sure that Mayor Webber and the people around him wouldn't want that -- 
or want, say, a training facility for plutonium workers. We just don't know.

This event will also give us a chance for us to network with each other and 
with representatives of any other groups present, as well as speak to any City 
officials willing to do so.

Getting people to come on Wednesday is the sole action item we are recommending 
right now. It is very, very important!

Thank you!

Greg, Trish, Lydia, Ernie, Michelle, and the rest of the Study Group

--

Greg Mello
Los Alamos Study Group
2901 Summit Place NE
Albuquerque, NM 87106
505-265-1200 office
505-577-8563 cell

To subscribe to our Friends listserve send a blank email 
here. To unsubscribe send a 
blank email here.