Re: Top Posting (read up)
Please, sir, where does Dan Knight, List Mom, on his updated 2008.02.15 webpage, continue to insist that bottom posting is the only way to post? See content of that page below the link you posted. Kyle, I wish you no ill -- perhaps it was when you resigned from being List Nanny that Dan Knight, List Mom, posted to all lists saying that the 'banned for top posting' rule was no longer being enforced because Apple Mail even had its default for top posting. Just in the past week, someone reposted Dan Knight's email complete with headers to verify validity of the email. Dan Knight's email said bottom posting was preferred however it was up to the individual poster to determine how best to reply. Surely, Dan Knight's email can be found in the archive. Steve R At 10:54 PM -0700 6/12/09, Kyle Hansen posted: http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml Netiquette for Email Lists updated 2008.02.15 There are informal rules of Internet communication which are termed netiquette to help people use proper etiquette within forums and email groups. Some examples of poor netiquette are not signing messages, sending unsubscribe messages to the posting address (instead of the administrative address), or TYPING IN ALL CAPS (which is the equivalent of yelling). The Internet is a dynamic environment and netiquette evolves over time. Some rules for the Low End Mac family of mail lists: Remember that replies automatically go to the list, not the just the person who posted the message. You need to change the To: address to respond to an individual. (Some other lists, such as Mac-Mgrs and the Low End Mac Swap list, work just the opposite way. On those lists, a reply goes to the original sender by default, not to the list.) Never post private (off-list) correspondence to the list without the permission of the sender. Please quote only the relevant portion of messages you respond to - and please quote some of the original message so others know what you're responding to. Mom and the nannies are watching. The list managers (the List Owner or mom and List Managers or nannies) have the right to remove posting privileges or ban anyone from the list for vulgarity, trolling, flaming, name calling, threats, or other behavior detrimental to this online community. They also have the right to switch you to moderated mode* for continued violations of the list rules and netiquette; this could escalate to blocking or banning if the infractions continue. Never send attachments to the list. An attachment may contain a virus, may be in a format others cannot use, may not make it through some mail gateways, makes the message bigger, and could bog down both the list server and the mail server. Don't send styled text or HTML files; only send plain text. Styled text may or may not come through as an attachment, but it is very difficult to read with a plain text email client. Google Groups will accept styled text and attachments, and this can result in garbled digests. Style your posting - ASCII style. Please keep me too messages off the list; these are best sent privately, if at all. Never send test messages to the list. Test when you have something to say to the list by saying it, not by sending a test message. Please avoid cross posting - sending the same message to several lists at the same time. Pick the list most likely to help, post there, and if you don't find what you need in that forum within a day or so, try another list. Let sleeping threads lie. If it's been over a week since the last posting in a thread, consider it dead and buried. When asking a question, please list relevant information regarding hardware, software, and version of the Mac OS involved. Change the subject line when the subject of the thread changes. If you don't do that, Google Groups will thread it with the old subject. When responding to a digest post, be sure to change the subject to match that of the original message. Signature lines * Signature blocks (sigs) are considered personal expression as long as the poster's name comes between the body of the message and the sig. * Please keep your signature concise. Six lines or less is best. Ten or more is excessive. * Many email clients wrap text at 80 characters or less (sometimes as little as 72); check that your signature doesn't wrap badly because of this. * Taglines should be clearly separated from the body of the email and should come after your name. * Avoid vulgar and offensive taglines. Don't use PGP encryption on your messages. A lot of people (probably most) can't even use it. Disclaimers and authentication. Please don't include corporate disclaimers or PGP authentication when posting to the list. Treat your list neighbor as you wish to be treated. Address breaches of netiquette privately, not on the list. Assume the best, not the worst. And please notify List Mom if things seem to be getting out of hand. Although
Re: Top Posting (read up)
I have no idea if this link to the thread where Dan Knight's email will work for everyone but here it is: http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list/browse_thread/thread/45e9e03c53a8d137/11fa9db6753421a0?lnk=gstq=top+posting#11fa9db6753421a0 Steve R --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightening Season
On Fri, 2009-06-12 at 22:39 -0700, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 6/12/09 10:21 PM, Stephen Weber maryland...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: My suggestion is to get a really nice surge protector or get a battery back up. Were I live I had some really bad storms pass through on the 9th and when I went down stairs to turn on my iMac G3 I noticed that the surge protector was tripped. So they do work. On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 12:41 AM, Ralph Green sfrea...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Howdy, Absolutely. That is what the PRAM batteries are there for. They keep the system settings when you are unplugged. It does not take much power, but you do run them down faster when you are unplugged. When you are plugged in, they are not being drained by the computer at all. They are just naturally discharging, as batteries always do. Good day, Ralph I suggest the same. But not in the form of top posting as Stephen did. Buy a decent UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) that also has a voltage regulator. That is what I do with all my important systems. Since I am leaving the thread above in place, I'll bottom post. I generally prefer top posting and heavily trimming the message you are responding to, but bottom posting has its place. I keep my main system on a UPS, as is mentioned above. But, we should specifically address Billy's original question. UPS's do not make your system immune to a lightning strike. They can help. Lighting has a lot of power and if it hits near you, there is nothing short of an air gap that has a chance of protecting the system. If it is really close, an air gap is not enough. I have some computers I regularly unplug in bad thunderstorms. I figure if I get a lightning strike, I want to have some surviving systems. If you do this, look and make sure everything is unplugged. If you leave the monitor connected to power and your computer, the lightning will come that way. An ethernet cable is a fine power conduit for lightning, too. And finally, since Dan Knight says we can top post, I'll continue to do it where I think it is appropriate. Kyle has provided a lot of useful answers to this list, so it is not intended as disrespect. But, Dan sets the rules here, as far as I know. Good luck, Ralph --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightening Season
At 11:44 PM -0400 6/12/09, insightinmind wrote: I've come to mistrust surge protectors, and really don't want to go into UPSs ... but are they immune to lightening? UPSs are better than surge protectors, usually, but they are NOT immune. We had a transformer blow about a half a mile away last December and it took out my APC SmartUPS 3000. And the power supply on one computer behind it (out of 8, plus various periferals). Everything else was unharmed. Fortunately, APC came through on the lifetime warranty and quickly replaced it with a newer unit (probably a refurb) and eventually a check to replace the fried PS. I also disconnect my DSL modem and ethernet cables: I've had good luck for many years using inline ethernet surge surpressors. I use TrippLite DNet-1, at about $18 per last time I checked. There are better/more expensive ones out there, to be sure, but I'd go broke putting them on all the hubs and switches and computers that need them in my neighborhood-wide wired network. We used to have to replace a hub or two everytime a big storm rolled through. We haven't had to in years, since we put the surge surpressors in. We've lost a port here and there, and a couple of the surpressors have croaked, but overall it's a whole lot better than slogging around right after every storm patching up the network while watching the *next* storm brew. Any suggestions about how to accomplish this better? I'll go with what the others said. Get a UPS. You'll rest a little easier if a storm comes up while you're at the grocery store or wherever. Or, plug everything into a power strip (they make 'em with built-in phone surge surpression too) and unplug it. -- Bill Christensen http://greenbuilder.com/contact/ Green Building Professionals Directory: http://directory.greenbuilder.com Sustainable Building Calendar: http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/ Green Real Estate: http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/ Straw Bale Registry: http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/ Books/videos/software: http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Top Posting (read up)
On Jun 13, 2009, at 1:52 AM, Steve R wrote: I have no idea if this link to the thread where Dan Knight's email will work for everyone but here it is: http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list/browse_thread/thread/45e9e03c53a8d137/11fa9db6753421a0?lnk=gstq=top+posting#11fa9db6753421a0 The link worked perfectly for me. Top posting is still poor netiquette. My preferred order: Best: Interleaved post w/edited contextual quotes Better: Bottom post w/contextual quoting Acceptable: Top post w/contextual quoting Worse: Post without contextual quoting Worst: Post off topic or hijack a thread Why be acceptable rather than best? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Top Posting (read up)
On Jun 13, 2009, at 1:54 AM, Kyle Hansen wrote: Hello, I am a Nanny here at LEM. We have some rules about posting in our forums. One rule that gets looked over quite frequently is what is called ³top posting.² We ask that you post your responses AFTER the text you are answering. This is called ³bottom posting² and considered the polite Internet standard. Naturally you should also trim out some of the non-essential information from the previous post as well. Kyle Hansen -- LEM List Nanny Some time ago (last year, I believe) it was established here on the list that top posting was ok. I can remember the that it was a lengthy discussion. Now we have changed that again and went back to bottom posting only? Peter M. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightening Season
We've entered lightening season and I have begun unplugging my systems as storms approach. I have concerns for my G4s: Yikes!, QS 2002 Dual 1GHz, and soon to be had DA Dual 533. Does this place a drain on the PRAM batteries? I believe someone contributed awhile back, that when the psu capacitor drains, that's when the batteries are used more. What might be a time limit on such a capacitor drain? I've come to mistrust surge protectors, and really don't want to go into UPSs ... but are they immune to lightening? I also disconnect my DSL modem and ethernet cables: that's how lightening fried my last QS mobo [and a USB connected Nikon 5000ED circuit board (now back fresh as well)] ... the QS I think actually had problems since eBay. My replacement mobo is behaving really well. All this unplugging has become rather comical (well, to my cat and dog, since we're here, mostly to ourselves). Any suggestions about how to accomplish this better? Many power companies offer a Whole House Surge and Lightening Arrester. It is a little expensive, but if you are concerned about lightning strikes, it may be the best protection available. I doubt that any surge protector that you buy is fast enough to prevent damage due to lightning. Larry Eden --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Safari 4.0
At 9:03 PM -0500 6/12/2009, George R. Hozendorf wrote: Is there any way to get the progress bar back in lieu of the rotating wheel? No. The preferences to change this (set with a raw defaults command), that were in the beta, have been removed in this final build. I recommend using Safari's Report a Bug feature. If enough people complain, maybe Apple will fix (yea right). sigh. Why do they keep trying to improve what works? In cyberspace, good designs are often obliterated by over-paid putz developers anxious to get puppy treats from their boss. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Safari 4.0
At 10:37 PM -0700 6/12/2009, Ernest L. Gunerius wrote: [HTML removed] Take a look at: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/05/23/1747241/ Cache spew isn't relevant to changing the Loading indicator. This cache mess bugs me. I don't understand why Apple would violate their own guidelines, by hiding data outside the user's account, then failing to garbage collect it properly. disabling Top Sites. 14 Tips for Safari 4 Beta ; http://www.macosxtips.co.uk/index_files/12-tips-for-safari-4-beta.html http://www.thrica.com/archives/352 The beta preferences have been removed from the released Safari 4. I've seen one suggestion of extracting the final beta Safari app from its installer, and using it on top of the rest of the release. Been there, tried that, got the crashes. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightening Season
On Jun 13, 2009, at 5:38 AM, Lawrence David Eden wrote: Any suggestions about how to accomplish this better? Yes, buy a power strip. Disconnect the strip instead of several cables. Makes it efficient. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightening Season
At 11:44 PM -0400 6/12/2009, insightinmind wrote: We've entered lightening season and I have begun unplugging my systems as storms approach. Me too! Does this place a drain on the PRAM batteries? Yea, but so what? That's what they're for. And the battery lasts for years anyway... I've come to mistrust surge protectors, and really don't want to go into UPSs ... but are they immune to lightening? NOTHING is immune to lightning. Some devices are simply more protective than others. Note also that a UPS is nothing more than a better surge protector plus a battery backup (for when the power goes out totally). The surge protectors in them are just like the ones you buy separately - price vs quality. I also disconnect my DSL modem and ethernet cables: that's how lightening fried my last QS mobo [and a USB connected Nikon 5000ED circuit board (now back fresh as well)] ... the QS I think actually had problems since eBay. My replacement mobo is behaving really well. All this unplugging has become rather comical Any suggestions about how to accomplish this better? Use a power strip / surge protector that has phone line protection. That way you have only two plugs to pull - the power and the dsl line into the strip. As for the ether... how big is your LAN? If it's just local to your room, then it's fine once any hub/switch is unpowered. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightening Season
I live in a rual area and frequently take precautions to prevent lightning damage. Disconnecting the phone cable (since I'm on dial up) is the most important and other than turning off my power supply surge protector (ha ha), that's about it. Sometimes if it looks real bad, I'll unplug the surge protector which supplies all of my computer stuff. I think that modem (cable or otherwise) is the greatest risk for your equipment. JT insightinmind wrote: On Jun 12, 2009, at 11:44 PM, insightinmind wrote: lightening meaning lightning, of coarse (sic) ... Bill Connelly --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Top Posting (read up)
Um, this requirement went away quite some time ago... JT Kyle Hansen wrote: Hello, I am a Nanny here at LEM. We have some rules about posting in our forums. One rule that gets looked over quite frequently is what is called ³top posting.² We ask that you post your responses AFTER the text you are answering. This is called ³bottom posting² and considered the polite Internet standard. Naturally you should also trim out some of the non-essential information from the previous post as well. Here is a snippet of the rules that you read when you signed up for these lists: http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml Thanks for your understanding. You will be warned first, then temp banned and then banned from the list if you don¹t follow the few rules we ask you to follow. Usually we will ban you or moderate you (so your post has to be approved by a nanny before it will hit the list) then temporarily ban you (usually 72 hours), and then if you still don¹t ³get it² you will just be banned from the listŠ.which we really do not want to do. So please take the few extra seconds and trim your posts then post your response at the bottom. Not only is it polite, it is a requirement of our lists. Some threads get really hard to follow if you ³top post.² We have posted several warnings. The warnings are going to stop and then bans are going to begin. It is not that difficult to trim a post and then reply in the natural fashion which is below the quoted text. Thank you again for your understanding. Kyle Hansen --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightening Season
At 9:52 AM -0400 6/13/2009, Dan wrote: Use a power strip / surge protector that has phone line protection. That way you have only two plugs to pull - the power and the dsl line into the strip. FWIW, another school of thought Surges need a path to follow that's better than your computer. If you cannot totally disconnect (isolate) all your equipment, then it's better to simply shut it all down and turn the power off at the surge protector. Leave the equipment plugged in... That way the grounding system is still connected... - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Top Posting (read up)
Please take me off this list. - Original Message - From: Steve R mailing.lists.2...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 1:39 AM Subject: Re: Top Posting (read up) Please, sir, where does Dan Knight, List Mom, on his updated 2008.02.15 webpage, continue to insist that bottom posting is the only way to post? See content of that page below the link you posted. Kyle, I wish you no ill -- perhaps it was when you resigned from being List Nanny that Dan Knight, List Mom, posted to all lists saying that the 'banned for top posting' rule was no longer being enforced because Apple Mail even had its default for top posting. Just in the past week, someone reposted Dan Knight's email complete with headers to verify validity of the email. Dan Knight's email said bottom posting was preferred however it was up to the individual poster to determine how best to reply. Surely, Dan Knight's email can be found in the archive. Steve R At 10:54 PM -0700 6/12/09, Kyle Hansen posted: http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml Netiquette for Email Lists updated 2008.02.15 There are informal rules of Internet communication which are termed netiquette to help people use proper etiquette within forums and email groups. Some examples of poor netiquette are not signing messages, sending unsubscribe messages to the posting address (instead of the administrative address), or TYPING IN ALL CAPS (which is the equivalent of yelling). The Internet is a dynamic environment and netiquette evolves over time. Some rules for the Low End Mac family of mail lists: Remember that replies automatically go to the list, not the just the person who posted the message. You need to change the To: address to respond to an individual. (Some other lists, such as Mac-Mgrs and the Low End Mac Swap list, work just the opposite way. On those lists, a reply goes to the original sender by default, not to the list.) Never post private (off-list) correspondence to the list without the permission of the sender. Please quote only the relevant portion of messages you respond to - and please quote some of the original message so others know what you're responding to. Mom and the nannies are watching. The list managers (the List Owner or mom and List Managers or nannies) have the right to remove posting privileges or ban anyone from the list for vulgarity, trolling, flaming, name calling, threats, or other behavior detrimental to this online community. They also have the right to switch you to moderated mode* for continued violations of the list rules and netiquette; this could escalate to blocking or banning if the infractions continue. Never send attachments to the list. An attachment may contain a virus, may be in a format others cannot use, may not make it through some mail gateways, makes the message bigger, and could bog down both the list server and the mail server. Don't send styled text or HTML files; only send plain text. Styled text may or may not come through as an attachment, but it is very difficult to read with a plain text email client. Google Groups will accept styled text and attachments, and this can result in garbled digests. Style your posting - ASCII style. Please keep me too messages off the list; these are best sent privately, if at all. Never send test messages to the list. Test when you have something to say to the list by saying it, not by sending a test message. Please avoid cross posting - sending the same message to several lists at the same time. Pick the list most likely to help, post there, and if you don't find what you need in that forum within a day or so, try another list. Let sleeping threads lie. If it's been over a week since the last posting in a thread, consider it dead and buried. When asking a question, please list relevant information regarding hardware, software, and version of the Mac OS involved. Change the subject line when the subject of the thread changes. If you don't do that, Google Groups will thread it with the old subject. When responding to a digest post, be sure to change the subject to match that of the original message. Signature lines * Signature blocks (sigs) are considered personal expression as long as the poster's name comes between the body of the message and the sig. * Please keep your signature concise. Six lines or less is best. Ten or more is excessive. * Many email clients wrap text at 80 characters or less (sometimes as little as 72); check that your signature doesn't wrap badly because of this. * Taglines should be clearly separated from the body of the email and should come after your name. * Avoid vulgar and offensive taglines. Don't use PGP encryption on your messages. A lot of people (probably most) can't even use it. Disclaimers and authentication. Please don't include corporate disclaimers or PGP authentication when posting to the
Re: Top Posting (read up)
Folks, On Jun 13, 1:54 am, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: Hello, I am a Nanny here at LEM. We have some rules about posting in our forums. One rule that gets looked over quite frequently is what is called ³top posting.² We ask that you post your responses AFTER the text you are answering. This is called ³bottom posting² and considered the polite Internet standard. This was posted in error. Bottom posting is STRONGLY ENCOURAGED, along with selective trimming. Top posting will not get you banned or moderated. HOWEVER, many of the more active/ knowledgeable members adhere to bottom posting/ selective trimming etiquette and on more than one occasion have mentioned (on or off list) If they are not willing to take the 3-5 seconds to bottom post and trim, why should I take 3-5 minutes to help them out. It makes email list threads much easier to read. If you examine some of the longer threads we have had here lately, you will see how hard to read a thread/ long message with a lot of previous top/bottom posting, along with trying to figure out who said what. So, PLEASE folks, TRY and bottom post and trim out non-relevant portions. But there is no firing squad or banishment for violators. Also, just a reminder, do not post attachments to the list. Thanks, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com G3-5List Nanny --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightning Season
On Jun 13, 2009, at 10:06 AM, Dan wrote: At 9:52 AM -0400 6/13/2009, Dan wrote: Use a power strip / surge protector that has phone line protection. That way you have only two plugs to pull - the power and the dsl line into the strip. FWIW, another school of thought Surges need a path to follow that's better than your computer. If you cannot totally disconnect (isolate) all your equipment, then it's better to simply shut it all down and turn the power off at the surge protector. Leave the equipment plugged in... That way the grounding system is still connected... My home network is a simple 3 or 4 computers-off-one-dsl-modem/router LAN. Computer setups are located in several rooms/studios. Each computer/other equipment (expensive and sensitive audio, scanners, etc) are connected to a power strip ... strips are sometimes daisy chained. So I usually only have 1 plug per room to pull ... and at the router, I pull all the ethernet cables, and the phone line. I feel like the hardwire ethernet cables still might act as an antenna for nearby strikes, but I'm resisting pulling them from the backs of my computers. Wireless connections would likely resolve that part ... Someone's comment made me start thinking of my CRTs as antennas as well ... Come to think of it ... I did have my electrical service upgraded fairly recently, and they added a surge protection to the system ... but he warned me about its function ... the lightning can enter the system anywhere, so its effectiveness is debatable ... I really think physical disconnection is the safest ... even with its comedic possibilities. Thanks all for the refresher course / comments ... Bill Connelly artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio myspace: http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightening Season
Previously, at 11:58 pm -0400 6/12/09, insightinmind wrote: On Jun 12, 2009, at 11:44 PM, insightinmind wrote: lightening meaning lightning, of coarse (sic) ... not if he was referring to diluting the colour towards white (or whitening) :-} -- I am not only a pacifist but a militant pacifist. I am willing to fight for peace. Nothing will end war unless the people themselves refuse to go to war. -Albert Einstein, physicist, Nobel laureate (1879-1955) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightening Season
Bill: At first, I thought you were talking dieting! But good catch on your part. On Jun 12, 11:44 pm, insightinmind billycarm...@verizon.net wrote: We've entered lightening season and I have begun unplugging my systems as storms approach. I have concerns for my G4s: Yikes!, QS 2002 Dual 1GHz, and soon to be had DA Dual 533. I sometimes do this, even though I use two APC BackUPS Pro 450s, old models which have a nice capability to deal with brownouts. I guess they call that automatic voltage regulation (AVR). These units deal nicely with appliances in the house which sometimes give a momentary dimming of the lights, like the clothes washer and vacuum cleaner. I hear them click quickly on/off. Does this place a drain on the PRAM batteries? Yes. I believe someone contributed awhile back, that when the psu capacitor drains, that's when the batteries are used more. What might be a time limit on such a capacitor drain? Don't know. I've come to mistrust surge protectors, and really don't want to go into UPSs ... but are they immune to lightening? It depends. They may sacrifice themselves if lightning strikes the house, the tall tree 10 feet away, or the transformer at the street that serves your house. But our electric company installed new equipment including fuses on the lines after Hurricane Isabell, and our service has become much more stable. Years ago, I lost my first APC unit when, on a clear bright sunny Saturday morning, the power company generated a massive surge. That saved the computer gear. Neighbors lost TVs, microwaves, wall thermostats, etc. After that incident, I installed an all-house surge protector in my Square D entrance panel. Last week, at 6:40 AM, when I had left everything plugged in, there was a lightning strike nearby, with instantaneous lights off for about two seconds. It burned out a transformer about 150 feet from my house which supplies my neighbor's house. No problem here. And I have not seen any other service vehicles at my neighbor's place. I also disconnect my DSL modem and ethernet cables: that's how lightening fried my last QS mobo [and a USB connected Nikon 5000ED circuit board (now back fresh as well)] ... the QS I think actually had problems since eBay. My replacement mobo is behaving really well. I sometimes unplug the other gear and cables. If, by unplugging, you accelerate the drain on your G4 tower PRAM batteries, that is no big deal. You just easily replace the battery. But with the new style iMac computers, that really is a big deal, because the internal battery is not easily replaceable by users. For that reason, when away from the house for vacations, I leave the iMac attached to the UPS, and the UPS powered on. I unplug everything else. But first, I backup our stuff to an external drive and DVDs which then remain off line. When I had Verizon come in to install their FiOS service so that I could get rid of Cox Communications, I installed a power receptacle near the entrance panel off a little used light circuit instead of having them plug their entrance box into the clothes washer receptacle. The service tech did not want my point of use surge protector. Neither did he want the coax cable going to their router come via my APC surge protector. He specifically said their equipment is adequately protected. But I can still unplug my own ethernet gear. All this unplugging has become rather comical (well, to my cat and dog, since we're here, mostly to ourselves). Any suggestions about how to accomplish this better? Whole house surge protector. Except for D Square from Home Depot, that may require an electrician. UPS with AVR. Unplug when convenient. Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Top Posting (read up)
At 7:28 AM -0700 6/13/2009, lgers...@gmail.com wrote: So, PLEASE folks, TRY and bottom post and trim out non-relevant portions. yea. What he said! But there is no firing squad or banishment for violators. sigh. I'm getting one or two private emails a week that all say the same thing: Why didn't you post in this or that thread? I reply with what I'll say here: Offering tech support via email is Not Easy. Reading upside down top-posted untrimmed threads makes the job so difficult ... I'd rather spend the time chasing my cats. Ditto for styled-text / HTML-based messages using itty bitty fonts. So when I see top posting or tiny fonts, I usually just delete the message without reading it. And move on... FWIW, - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightening Season
On Jun 13, 9:52 am, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: Note also that a UPS is nothing more than a better surge protector plus a battery backup (for when the power goes out totally). The surge protectors in them are just like the ones you buy separately - price vs quality. The more expensive UPSs include automatic voltage regulation (AVR). Also, beyond normal home use, there is power conditioning. Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Top Posting (read up)
On Jun 13, 2009, at 10:28 AM, lgers...@gmail.com wrote: Folks, On Jun 13, 1:54 am, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: Hello, I am a Nanny here at LEM. We have some rules about posting in our forums. One rule that gets looked over quite frequently is what is called ³top posting.² We ask that you post your responses AFTER the text you are answering. This is called ³bottom posting² and considered the polite Internet standard. This was posted in error. Bottom posting is STRONGLY ENCOURAGED, along with selective trimming. Top posting will not get you banned or moderated. HOWEVER, many of the more active/ knowledgeable members adhere to bottom posting/ selective trimming etiquette and on more than one occasion have mentioned (on or off list) If they are not willing to take the 3-5 seconds to bottom post and trim, why should I take 3-5 minutes to help them out. It makes email list threads much easier to read. If you examine some of the longer threads we have had here lately, you will see how hard to read a thread/ long message with a lot of previous top/bottom posting, along with trying to figure out who said what. So, PLEASE folks, TRY and bottom post and trim out non-relevant portions. But there is no firing squad or banishment for violators. Also, just a reminder, do not post attachments to the list. Thanks, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com G3-5List Nanny Sometimes it is not as easy executed as said. Sometimes people use mobile devices (iPhone, iPod Touch, Blackberry or who knows) and on some of the mobile devices you can't cut or partial delete if you hit the reply button. I'm pretty sure most people try very hard to follow your advice but it is not always as easy as it seems. Just some thoughts from somebody using mobile devices a lot. Peter M. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightning Season
On Jun 13, 10:33 am, insightinmind billycarm...@verizon.net wrote: My home network is a simple 3 or 4 computers-off-one-dsl-modem/router LAN. Computer setups are located in several rooms/studios. Each computer/other equipment (expensive and sensitive audio, scanners, etc) are connected to a power strip ... strips are sometimes daisy chained. I like to distinguish between surge protectors or surge strips on the one hand and power strips on the other hand. I understand that surge protectors/strips must not be daisy chained. Daisy chaining power strips seems okay. Bruce once mentioned that he ties power strips to the battery side of his home APC UPS boxes. I could do the same with a triple tap. Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Top Posting (read up)
On Jun 13, 2009, at 8:21 AM, Dan wrote: I reply with what I'll say here: Offering tech support via email is Not Easy. Reading upside down top-posted untrimmed threads makes the job so difficult ... I'd rather spend the time chasing my cats. Ditto for styled-text / HTML-based messages using itty bitty fonts. So when I see top posting or tiny fonts, I usually just delete the message without reading it. And move on... What Dan said... -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightening Season
On Jun 13, 2009, at 11:36 AM, Al Poulin wrote: On Jun 13, 9:52 am, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: Note also that a UPS is nothing more than a better surge protector plus a battery backup (for when the power goes out totally). The surge protectors in them are just like the ones you buy separately - price vs quality. The more expensive UPSs include automatic voltage regulation (AVR). Also, beyond normal home use, there is power conditioning. That would help with the audio equipment, too, I believe. Brownouts are a related beast, most likely solved by the UPS with AVR. Guess I could benefit by a sale on expensive UPSs ... Bill Connelly artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio myspace: http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Top Posting (read up)
At 11:43 AM -0400 6/13/2009, insightinmind wrote: On Jun 13, 2009, at 11:21 AM, Dan wrote: So when I see top posting or tiny fonts, I usually just delete the message without reading it. And move on... Regarding Rich vrs Plain text and html ... I recently changed my Signature to be plain text/non-http-html (for my G3-G5 list e-mail address account only) ... I think that was over-riding my other choice of Responding: Use the same message format My responses have returned to immediate turn-around whereas they were delayed probably by the google Server, for possibly containing Rich Text and/ or html. Make sense? maybe I should drop my signature ... seems harmless enough. Bill Connelly artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio myspace: http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio I doubt plain vs rich (aka html) in a sig would block your emails at the server level. If they were going to bock, the thing they'd most likely hit on is the content therein, eg the myspace url. A quick search thru my unfiltered spam trap shows thousands of messages containing myspace.com. At the user level, a lot of people junk html-based emails unless they're from someone on their whitelist. It's easy enough to do - just filter for an x-html tag. Your original post in the Lightning thread is rich (HTML), btw, but the font sizes are good. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightning Season
At 8:32 AM -0700 6/13/2009, Al Poulin wrote: I like to distinguish between surge protectors or surge strips on the one hand and power strips on the other hand. I understand that surge protectors/strips must not be daisy chained. Daisy chaining surge protectors is of little value. But it works. Daisy chaining power strips is a political issue - between you, the size of the circuit breaker in the garage, and your fire insurance. :) I've got four daisy chained here. Only one outlet in this room... - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Top Posting (read up)
At 22:54 -0700 6/12/09, Kyle Hansen wrote: x_charset windows-1_2_5_2 Hello, I am a Nanny here at LEM. We have some rules about posting in our forums. One rule that gets looked over quite frequently is what is called „top posting.¾ We ask that you post your responses AFTER the text you are answering. This is called „bottom posting¾ and considered the polite Internet standard. Naturally you should also trim out some of the non-essential information from the previous post as well. Here is a snippet of the rules that you read when you signed up for these lists: Hello. I am a low end Mac user on this G3 equipped 8500 running Eudora 5.1. Character encodings in the upper ASCII range were once fairly well defined until Windoze changed things. Character set windows-1252 causes problems for me that are far worse than top posting. Those smart quotes are coming out as superscript 3 and 2 characters or as greater than or equals depending on the blah-blah setting of Eudora. I would really appreciate it if users on this LOW END MAC list would either stick to low end ASCII or use Macintosh machines for posting. -- Applescript syntax is like English spelling: Roughly, though not thoroughly, thought through. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Safari 4.0
Howdy, Well, it is not exactly what George asked for. But, if you like the progress bar, use Firefox and install the fission add-in. I almost always add that add-in, because I like the Safari style progress bar. Good day, Ralph On Sat, 2009-06-13 at 09:18 -0400, Dan wrote: At 9:03 PM -0500 6/12/2009, George R. Hozendorf wrote: Is there any way to get the progress bar back in lieu of the rotating wheel? No. The preferences to change this (set with a raw defaults command), that were in the beta, have been removed in this final build. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Top Posting (read up)
On Jun 13, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Dan wrote: At 11:43 AM -0400 6/13/2009, insightinmind wrote: ... Make sense? maybe I should drop my signature ... seems harmless enough. I doubt plain vs rich (aka html) in a sig would block your emails at the server level. If they were going to bock, the thing they'd most likely hit on is the content therein, eg the myspace url. A quick search thru my unfiltered spam trap shows thousands of messages containing myspace.com. At the user level, a lot of people junk html-based emails unless they're from someone on their whitelist. It's easy enough to do - just filter for an x-html tag. Your original post in the Lightning thread is rich (HTML), btw, but the font sizes are good. Well I shortened my Sig to just be my artsite ... non-myspace url. My message above hasn't come through to my Mail box, yet. Maybe its my verizon server ... Bill Connelly artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Top Posting (read up)
On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 1:54 AM, Kyle Hansenpi...@speakeasy.net wrote: Hello, I am a Nanny here at LEM. We have some rules about posting in our forums. One rule that gets looked over quite frequently is what is called ³top posting.² We ask that you post your responses AFTER the text you are answering. This is called ³bottom posting² and considered the polite Internet standard. Naturally you should also trim out some of the non-essential information from the previous post as well. Here is a snippet of the rules that you read when you signed up for these lists: http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml Thanks for your understanding. You will be warned first, then temp banned and then banned from the list if you don¹t follow the few rules we ask you to follow. Usually we will ban you or moderate you (so your post has to be approved by a nanny before it will hit the list) then temporarily ban you (usually 72 hours), and then if you still don¹t ³get it² you will just be banned from the listŠ.which we really do not want to do. So please take the few extra seconds and trim your posts then post your response at the bottom. Not only is it polite, it is a requirement of our lists. Some threads get really hard to follow if you ³top post.² We have posted several warnings. The warnings are going to stop and then bans are going to begin. It is not that difficult to trim a post and then reply in the natural fashion which is below the quoted text. Thank you again for your understanding. Kyle Hansen Why are you trying to enforce a non-existent rule: Friends: After discussion with the other list managers, we've decided to end our policy of asking that list members not top post their replies. That's the default behavior of most email clients, and just reminding people of our recommendation to bottom post or interleave your replies has become more trouble than its worth. From this point forward, top posting is no longer an issue. Dan Knight, list owner publisher, LowEndMac.com .Dan Knight a while ago made this rule no longer a issue, I don't quite get why you're trying to reinforce it now. I don't think it's too wise to try and cross the list owner. -- Best Regards, John Musbach --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Safari 4.0
At 12:09 PM -0500 6/13/2009, Ralph Green wrote: Well, it is not exactly what George asked for. But, if you like the progress bar, use Firefox and install the fission add-in. I almost always add that add-in, because I like the Safari style progress bar. ug. Firefox is s slow compared to Safari 4! That's like handing someone rusted rollerskates while you zoom off in their Porché. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Safari 4.0
On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 12:09 PM -0500 6/13/2009, Ralph Green wrote: Well, it is not exactly what George asked for. But, if you like the progress bar, use Firefox and install the fission add-in. I almost always add that add-in, because I like the Safari style progress bar. ug. Firefox is s slow compared to Safari 4! That's like handing someone rusted rollerskates while you zoom off in their Porché. - Dan. I believe solutions will be found very soon for Safari 4. We just have to wait a little. Personally, I still use Webkit but would not change to Camino or Firefox. Peter M. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Safari 4.0
On Jun 13, 2009, at 1:47 PM, Dan wrote: At 12:09 PM -0500 6/13/2009, Ralph Green wrote: Well, it is not exactly what George asked for. But, if you like the progress bar, use Firefox and install the fission add-in. I almost always add that add-in, because I like the Safari style progress bar. ug. Firefox is s slow compared to Safari 4! That's like handing someone rusted rollerskates while you zoom off in their Porché. I noticed that, too. I especially ... like the Top Sites window (new to 4?) ... except I can't really figure where its getting those from ... I haven't visited many of them ... Bill Connelly artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Safari 4.0
On Jun 13, 1:47 pm, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: ug. Firefox is s slow compared to Safari 4! My experience is that Firefox 3 is much slower in OS X than it is in Windows. In Windows Firefox is still my preferred browser. I don't know what about its implementation might slow Firefox down in OS X, it's just how it works out for me. I notice the difference most when I'm opening and closing the Firefox app. I haven't checked to see if the Firefox 3.5 beta is available for the Mac. If it is then I'll have to try it out to see how it compares in performance. -irrational john --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Top Posting (read up)
On 6/12/09 11:39 PM, Steve R mailing.lists.2...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Please, sir, where does Dan Knight, List Mom, on his updated 2008.02.15 webpage, continue to insist that bottom posting is the only way to post? See content of that page below the link you posted. Kyle, I wish you no ill -- perhaps it was when you resigned from being List Nanny that Dan Knight, List Mom, posted to all lists saying that the 'banned for top posting' rule was no longer being enforced because Apple Mail even had its default for top posting. Just in the past week, someone reposted Dan Knight's email complete with headers to verify validity of the email. Dan Knight's email said bottom posting was preferred however it was up to the individual poster to determine how best to reply. Surely, Dan Knight's email can be found in the archive. None taken. But Dan Knight himself just posted the same thing on the macintel list. We will clarify and the web page will be updated. I am well aware of that post. The Listnannies are at the round table as we speak. And what does it matter anyway? If you are a thoughtful and polite person you would bottom post. It's that simple. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Top Posting (read up)
On 6/13/09 4:11 AM, Peter peter1...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: On Jun 13, 2009, at 1:54 AM, Kyle Hansen wrote: Hello, I am a Nanny here at LEM. We have some rules about posting in our forums. One rule that gets looked over quite frequently is what is called ³top posting.² We ask that you post your responses AFTER the text you are answering. This is called ³bottom posting² and considered the polite Internet standard. Naturally you should also trim out some of the non-essential information from the previous post as well. Kyle Hansen THIS THREAD IS DEAD. I pronounce this thread dead until Dan Clarifies. Because he himself is insisting on bottom posting (macintel list this morning I believe) and many many complaints have been received by list nannies about the difficulty in following threads when people top post etc. THIS THREAD IS DEAD, until further clarification. I was well aware of the previous post saying that we would ³Prefer² that you bottm post. But due to the volume of complaints that top posting is not only arrogant and inconsiderate, it makes threads hard to follow. Will post back when this has all been decided by Dan Knight. Thanks Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Top Posting (read up)
At 1:44 PM -0700 6/13/09, Kyle Hansen posted: And what does it matter anyway? If you are a thoughtful and polite person you would bottom post. It's that simple. I could take offense from that comment but I won't. Being thoughtful and/or polite has nothing to do with top or bottom posting, not in this day and age. As posted by others, there are circumstances that leave no option but top posting, such as using a mobile device such as duh! Apple's own iPhone and iPod Touch. And then there's even Apple Mail... set to default to top posting. If you were a thoughtful and polite person you might understand those limitations, set by Apple itself, that make bottom posting to an Apple-related list a bit difficult for some people. It really sucks that a forum for communication is being held hostage by some folks who really could use a bit more fiber in their diet. Those who *strenuously* and *adamantly* object to top posting have already posted a solution --- don't respond to those who top post. Those of us who understand there are limitations that make bottom posting difficult can continue to respond to those queries that we can. shrug Steve R --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightning Season
On 6/13/09 9:34 AM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Daisy chaining surge protectors is of little value. But it works. Daisy chaining power strips is a political issue - between you, the size of the circuit breaker in the garage, and your fire insurance. :) I've got four daisy chained here. Only one outlet in this room... LMAO. I just buy a good UPS with AVR and never think about it. I figure that If I spent $3000 on a computer $150 is worth protecting it. Even when I lived in Florida where the lightning is unreal during parts of the year I just left things lugged into my UPS with AVR and didn't worry about it. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Top Posting (read up)
On 6/13/09 1:57 PM, Steve R mailing.lists.2...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: At 1:44 PM -0700 6/13/09, Kyle Hansen posted: And what does it matter anyway? If you are a thoughtful and polite person you would bottom post. It's that simple. I could take offense from that comment but I won't. Being thoughtful and/or polite has nothing to do with top or bottom posting THIS THREAD IS CLOSED. I could now ban you for posting on a closed thread, but I am also a considerate and polite person. Blackberries (like mine) and iPhones (like mine) are capable of bottom posting. Start a new thread if you wish to discuss this further. Thank you. THIS THREAD IS CLOSED Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
A polite netiquette back and forth
I will even start the new thread so that we can calmly discuss the issue. I am of the opinion that I don't need to respond to a mailing list (like this one) while at work or out for dinner or whatever. Nothing has to be answered instantly on a list like this. In fact a lot of people subscribe to this via Digest and won't get it until tomorrow anyway. So what I do is quickly scan for EMERGENCY messages that can't wait a couple of hours and then answer them. So that involves a couple more minutes of my time to format the return email. Be it a Blackberry or an iPhone bottom posting is possible...it is just not the default. Taken directly from Wikipedia: Top-posting is a natural consequence of the behavior of the reply function in most e-mail readers, such as Microsoft Outlook, Outlook Express, Gmail, and others. Partially because of Microsoft's influence, top-posting is very common on mailing lists and in personal e-mail.[7][8][9][10] Objections to top-posting on newsgroups, as a rule, seem to come from persons who first went online in the earlier days of Usenet So if we as Mac users want to adopt Microsoft's way then ok...I guess. Early internet adopters like myself do not like top posting. It makes a thread difficult to follow. Even more trimming the text to just the relevant information is of great benefit. Especially to people with mobile devices. This forces us to download the whole email and fumble through it to figure out what people are talking about. Here are a couple of links that were just googled by me and were first page hits using the words bottom posting as the search words: http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists/etiquette#head-d58f0bbc f56aca2802844f797a8cd4805877fab6 http://www.dearcupertino.com/2008/12/top-posting-and-bottom-posting.html Having just attended the WWDC here in SF that was a huge outrage. It will be an option if not the default on the iPhone very soon. All the people that I spoke with about things like widgets and iPhone apps etc eventually got around how they HATE the fact that the iPhone top posts by default. Because it is considered impolite, in forums like this anyway. Your workplace may prefer top posting. That's great. Whatever. We here at LEM prefer bottom posting. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
OH MY GOD. WHAT THE CRAP?? Why the hell is this asinine issue being debated AGAIN? On Jun 13, 2009, at 6:32 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 6/13/09 4:21 PM, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net Broadcast into the ether: And page 2 of why bottom posting is considered the polite way to handle things, especially in a back and forth forum: Top-posting forces your reader to work A top-posted message is easy to write; since, it doesn't require the writer to edit any of the original message. As a consequence, a top-posted message makes the message reader do the work of understanding what was said. Anyone new to a top-posted conversation has to read a message unnaturally from bottom to top. A reader may have to skip over the new top-posted comment at the top of the message and scroll down to the bottom of the message to see the context for the comment, then scroll back up, message by message, to read the added comments in an unnatural bottom-to-top reverse order. No editing has been done by the top-posting writers; so, each message contains redundant signatures and irrelevant material. And a few more links: http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html http://mailformat.dan.info/quoting/bottom-posting.html http://www.mail-archive.com/bri...@coollist.com/msg00178.html Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Previously, at 8:28 pm -0500 6/13/09, Brian wrote: OH MY GOD. WHAT THE CRAP?? Why the hell is this asinine issue being debated AGAIN? | | | | | | | V Because some PEOPLE insist on making the same mistake over and over? -- Reaganomics proved what every farmer knows: The only thing that trickles down is fertilizer! -- unattributed --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Not a mistake On Jun 13, 2009, at 8:33 PM, Paul Stamsen wrote: Previously, at 8:28 pm -0500 6/13/09, Brian wrote: OH MY GOD. WHAT THE CRAP?? Why the hell is this asinine issue being debated AGAIN? | | | | | | | V Because some PEOPLE insist on making the same mistake over and over? -- Reaganomics proved what every farmer knows: The only thing that trickles down is fertilizer! -- unattributed --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
BINGO!! Twitter, Twitter,Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter. On Jun 13, 2009, at 9:28 PM, Brian wrote: OH MY GOD. WHAT THE CRAP?? Why the hell is this asinine issue being debated AGAIN? On Jun 13, 2009, at 6:32 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 6/13/09 4:21 PM, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net Broadcast into the ether: And page 2 of why bottom posting is considered the polite way to handle things, especially in a back and forth forum: Top-posting forces your reader to work A top-posted message is easy to write; since, it doesn't require the writer to edit any of the original message. As a consequence, a top-posted message makes the message reader do the work of understanding what was said. Anyone new to a top-posted conversation has to read a message unnaturally from bottom to top. A reader may have to skip over the new top-posted comment at the top of the message and scroll down to the bottom of the message to see the context for the comment, then scroll back up, message by message, to read the added comments in an unnatural bottom-to-top reverse order. No editing has been done by the top-posting writers; so, each message contains redundant signatures and irrelevant material. And a few more links: http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html http://mailformat.dan.info/quoting/bottom-posting.html http://www.mail-archive.com/bri...@coollist.com/msg00178.html Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. John Callahan jcalla...@stny.rr.com If there are no dogs in Heaven, when I die I want to go where they went.¨ --Will Rogers extreme positive = (ybya2) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/13/09 6:40 PM, John Callahan jcalla...@stny.rr.com Broadcast into the ether: BINGO!! Twitter, Twitter,Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter. He he. At WWDC they say Twitter will be gone in less than a year. And the reason was that as a nanny I get blasted over and over again weekly about why people are still top posting, and some people had some questions offlist. So I guess there is no being polite allowed here either. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [G3-5]Re: The powerpc now and in the future....
On 6/11/09 4:32 PM, Kris Tilford at ktilfo...@cox.net wrote: On Jun 11, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Dan wrote: As emulators go, Rosetta - the black box that makes PPC stuff run on x86 Macs - is pretty good. Now we need the opposite emulator, the one that will allow future Intel x86 only code to run on our PPC Macs. I doubt this will ever exist, but it would certainly be welcomed. Well, the Macintosh is no stranger to CISC/x86 emulation! CISC emulation was already present in the PowerPC/Classic Mac OS era in order to run Motorola 68k applications. And x86 emulation was used on Windows-emulation programs like VirtualPC. -- MaGioZal. http://flickr.com/photos/magiozal/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Booting G4 MDD via external DVD drive?
Will a Mac G4 Mirror Drive Door model boot via an external double layer DVD drive via USB? Want to install Leopard going this route if possible. Otherwise I'll just install a DL DVD in it. Also, does the MDD have USB 1.0 or 2.0 ports? Thanks, SP --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Booting G4 MDD via external DVD drive?
On 14/06/2009, at 2:34 PM, joplinfan wrote: Will a Mac G4 Mirror Drive Door model boot via an external double layer DVD drive via USB? Want to install Leopard going this route if possible. Otherwise I'll just install a DL DVD in it. Im pretty certain it won't boot from USB, unless you have a PCI USB 2.0 card, as I think you Mac has USB 1.1 (USB boot requires 2.0) You could get an external Firewire Drive, which your Mac could boot from. Also, does the MDD have USB 1.0 or 2.0 ports? 1.1 I think Thanks, Po-en Tsai --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [G3-5]Re: Safari 4.0
On 6/13/09 3:09 PM, insightinmind at billycarm...@verizon.net wrote: I noticed that, too. And the Firefox Mac interace eats up a sizeable part of display real estate, too, mainly if you're in 1024x768. -- MaGioZal. http://fotolog.com/_magiozal/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [G3-5]Re: The powerpc now and in the future....
I'm still thinking about picking up a Quicksilver 2002 to use as a light-to-medium-duty server. Power Architecture is a great and efficient platform, too bad Apple didn't follow it through. DISCLAIMER: I work for IBM as a contractor, but I liked their products even before I started working with them. :) On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 9:27 PM, MaGioZalmagio...@gmail.com wrote: On 6/11/09 4:32 PM, Kris Tilford at ktilfo...@cox.net wrote: On Jun 11, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Dan wrote: As emulators go, Rosetta - the black box that makes PPC stuff run on x86 Macs - is pretty good. Now we need the opposite emulator, the one that will allow future Intel x86 only code to run on our PPC Macs. I doubt this will ever exist, but it would certainly be welcomed. Well, the Macintosh is no stranger to CISC/x86 emulation! CISC emulation was already present in the PowerPC/Classic Mac OS era in order to run Motorola 68k applications. And x86 emulation was used on Windows-emulation programs like VirtualPC. -- MaGioZal. http://flickr.com/photos/magiozal/ -- ' With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and warning... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on we’re all damaged. - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie, Star Trek: TNG episode The Drumhead - Alex Smith (K4RNT) - Murfreesboro/Nashville, Tennessee USA --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 13, 2009, at 8:40 PM, John Callahan wrote: BINGO!! Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter. Dingbat!! Plain text, plain text, plain text, plain text. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [G3-5]Re: Top Posting (read up)
On 6/13/09 8:11 AM, Peter at peter1...@gmail.com wrote: Some time ago (last year, I believe) it was established here on the list that top posting was ok. I can remember the that it was a lengthy discussion. Now we have changed that again and went back to bottom posting only? I think top posting, mainly if the reply is not so long, is not an evil nowadays. But I think that for the sake of undersanting in a thread, the quoting marks must be respected (I say this because many times HTML-enabled mailers don't respect quoting order). -- MaGioZal. http://magiozal.blogspot.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 13, 2009, at 8:13 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: Dingbat!! Plain text, plain text, plain text, plain text. Oh, that was delicious! :-) Jeff --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [G3-5]A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/13/09 8:21 PM, Kyle Hansen at pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: Even more trimming the text to just the relevant information is of great benefit. I think trimming before replying any e-mail is a fundamental lesson. Non-trimming should be used only in special cases. I subscribe two another high-traffic mailing lists that do permit HTML, attachments and whose users are not used to trim before replying. Sometimes, mainly in long threads, I feel like in an internet hell... -- MaGioZal. http://magiozal.blogspot.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/13/09 8:18 PM, MacGuy macgu...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: On Jun 13, 2009, at 8:13 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: Dingbat!! Plain text, plain text, plain text, plain text. Oh, that was delicious! :-) Jeff LMFAO. I was not going to say it. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Booting G4 MDD via external DVD drive?
Thanks much for the info. Just realized I can try Target Disk Mode and hook the MDD up to one of my other G4's with an internal DL DVD combo drive. That should work. SP On Jun 13, 9:42 pm, Po-en Tsai poen.t...@gmail.com wrote: Im pretty certain it won't boot from USB, unless you have a PCI USB 2.0 card, as I think you Mac has USB 1.1 (USB boot requires 2.0) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Top-posting forces your reader to work . . . __ It's been my impression that those who participate in the posts on these lists: - Usually compose Subject: lines which are a reasonably informative description of the issue within the message. - If reading any particular post in a thread, we have usually already become familiar with the discussion thus far by reading the earlier comments on an issue. Few of us, I imagine, choose to come into an intriguing subject, judged by the Subject: line, anywhere but in the beginning. Alternately, some posters may enter their reading at the first response from one of those among us who historically have seemed to be the best informed among us. These members, bless them all, usually encapsulate the subject of the discussion to that point succinctly, and trim off the balance. - Are most often surgical in removing extraneous earlier material from prior postings on the thread. Since the observations above, I believe, are generally valid, I personally find no difficulty following top postings. Since there's usually little below their addition aside from a modest encapsulation of what in the prior postings in the thread it is on which they wish to amplify, the need to read back and forth from the bottom-up to follow a top-posted addition to a conversation with which our readers are already familiar from prior postings on a thread is moot. Sorry if this comment was hard to decipher. stanton --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/13/09 9:07 PM, Stanton Mitrany stanton...@earthlink.net Broadcast into the ether: Top-posting forces your reader to work . . . Sorry if this comment was hard to decipher. stanton You sir, obviously get it. -- The authorities require that a person must be missing for more than 48 hours before filing a report. If they own a Jeep Wrangler don't bother calling. O|||O Kyle H. Hansen --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightning Season
Al Poulin wrote: I like to distinguish between surge protectors or surge strips on the one hand and power strips on the other hand. I understand that surge protectors/strips must not be daisy chained. Daisy chaining power strips seems okay. Bruce once mentioned that he ties power strips to the battery side of his home APC UPS boxes. I could do the same with a triple tap. There is nothing wrong with daisy chaining surge protectors, surge strips and/or power strips except that it's better not to for power distribution reasons. It's best if any of the above are plugged directly into a wall outlet. As long as you aren't drawing too much power then daisy chaining them is acceptable. By daisy chaining a power strip with surge suppression you are in effect paralleling the surge supressors which means they are adding their protection. But you really only need one surge supressor, plugged into the wall, first in any chain. For the most part people get overly concerned about surge protection. Switching power supplies are fairly robust. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Lightning Season
Dan wrote: At 8:32 AM -0700 6/13/2009, Al Poulin wrote: I like to distinguish between surge protectors or surge strips on the one hand and power strips on the other hand. I understand that surge protectors/strips must not be daisy chained. Daisy chaining surge protectors is of little value. But it works. Daisy chaining power strips is a political issue - between you, the size of the circuit breaker in the garage, and your fire insurance. That isn't a big deal either, every power strip you are likely to find has a 10-15 A circuit breaker. Daisy chaining them and adding loads to the additional power strips just increases the chance of tripping the breaker on the power strip or the circuit breaker protecting that outlet. At the school I worked at we had a local fire marshall come through and they had no problems with daisy chaining power strips but wouldn't allow any power strips hanging off an extension cord (which carries the same protection. This despite the fact that adequate wall outlets weren't provided in the new buildings, something that would have been required by code in any house but since they were public buildings they were exempt. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Booting G4 MDD via external DVD drive?
Po-en Tsai wrote: On 14/06/2009, at 2:34 PM, joplinfan wrote: Will a Mac G4 Mirror Drive Door model boot via an external double layer DVD drive via USB? Want to install Leopard going this route if possible. Otherwise I'll just install a DL DVD in it. Im pretty certain it won't boot from USB, unless you have a PCI USB 2.0 card, as I think you Mac has USB 1.1 (USB boot requires 2.0) I've booted G3 iMacs from USB 1.1 interfaces before but only booting OS 9, not X. You could get an external Firewire Drive, which your Mac could boot from. Also, does the MDD have USB 1.0 or 2.0 ports? 1.1 I think -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
