Re: CCC and Backups
On Apr 26, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Anne Keller-Smith wrote: The reason to do this would be that if you back up the System every day, would you not be backing up whatever errors have crept into it, thereby rendering the backup problematic when a problem occurs? This is a separate issue entirely. Errors do not 'creep into a system'. Computers are not organic things; when they fail, they fail in knowable ways due to deliberate activities. They may fail in subtle, difficult to identify ways, but in general when computer systems fail they fail because: Buggy software has been installed. Hardware is failing. With OS X the first is relatively simple to identify. If a problem is not noted by a different user on the system, or cannot be reproduced in Safe mode, then the issue is most likely buggy, third party software or corrupted caches. Caches get corrupted when there's problems writing or reading to/from disk (either from disk hardware problems or abrupt shutdowns). Clearing these (starting in safe mode, dumping browser caches, or running AppleJack to 'deep clean' things) often fixes the problem. This partially solved a nagging slowdown problem I had been having with my laptop, along with getting Flash crap under control in my browser. Hardware problems will increasingly become the issue with computers germane to this list...the very newest of them (the last G5 towers) are now approaching 4 years old, the oldest (the BW G3) are ten years old. I'm tempting the LEM endless idiotic UPS thread curse here, but one of the best investments you can ever make for your computer system is a good, professional-grade uninterruptible power system, one that also conditions the power (you'll spend $120-$400 for one of these) Completely aside from the issue of protecting against power surges, they provide clean, design-spec power to the system. Electricity is the fuel for a computer, clean fuel == fewer problems. I've seen them work over 15 years as an IT professional. All this said, OSX is a remarkably stable and robust OS. I'm convinced that many of the problems people experience with OS X are the result of excessive tinkering, insufficient testing of new software (don't go installing three new pref panes and four new drivers at once.), too many 'switch off the power to shut down instead of shutting down properly' incidents and poor power leading to hardware faults. I know this because my own systems rarely experience the issues we see here, and mine are hardly pristine state of the art systems: an upgraded G4 that lived through a flood (The boot drive has been with me since my computer was a Beige G3 running 10.2), a frankebook, half 867Mhz/half 1Ghz TiBook, with bits of my old Pismo installed, and an old first-gen Intel iMac. The desktops both live off of APC UPS'es, (A laptop's battery and power brick system comprise, in essence, both parts of a power conditioning UPS) I maintain current backups via Time Machine and that's it. I do no other 'system maintenance' whatsoever: I don't run DiskWarrior, Repair Permissions, Onyx, AppleJack, etc etc etc. As I said, OS X is robust. Leave it the heck alone and it usually runs pretty well all by itself. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CCC and Backups
On Apr 27, 2009, at 11:54 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: I do no other 'system maintenance' whatsoever: I don't run DiskWarrior, Repair Permissions, Onyx, AppleJack, etc etc etc. As I said, OS X is robust. Leave it the heck alone and it usually runs pretty well all by itself. Since you do not run these things, do you leave your system on overnight so it can run the regular maintenance scripts? Len --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CCC and Backups
On Apr 27, 2009, at 12:06 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Apr 27, 2009, at 9:02 AM, Len Gerstel wrote: On Apr 27, 2009, at 11:54 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: I do no other 'system maintenance' whatsoever: I don't run DiskWarrior, Repair Permissions, Onyx, AppleJack, etc etc etc. As I said, OS X is robust. Leave it the heck alone and it usually runs pretty well all by itself. Since you do not run these things, do you leave your system on overnight so it can run the regular maintenance scripts? Every year or so I may check to see if the logfiles are getting too big and run the scripts by hand, but since 10.5 will now run them as needed when it can, I don't bother even with that. Thanks, I did not know that 10.5 ran the scripts when it could. My home mac is fine. I guess I will still need to run them OCCASIONALLY on my work Mac running 10.4.11 since I shut that down every night. Thanks, Len --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CCC and Backups
On Apr 27, 2009, at 12:44 PM, Anne Keller-Smith wrote: I have always had it connected to an UPS, usually APC. Buy a new one every couple years when the battery goes. (Not worth it to ship a battery methinks.) If you have a chain like Batteries Plus in your neck of the woods, they sell the batteries. We have one here in Tucson we get all the replacement batteries from them. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CCC and Backups
On Apr 25, 2009, at 8:56 PM, Anne Keller-Smith wrote: I'm on the verge of getting a bootable external hard drive. Presently I have two - a Fantom and a Maxtor, non-bootables, around 200 gigs each. They are meant to be dupes of each other, contain my user folder and archives. (Altho the archives are not *quite* dups any more if you want me to be honest, as one drive is at the safe deposit box and one at the house, so it's hard to compare if you know what I mean.) The Maxtor came with some software I've been using for backup, but I don't like the wierd single file it generates, so did this only once and then did just copy of things with it, which seems to work well, more or less. As you know, the G4 did some weird things earlier this week, so I was glad to have the external! And it wasn't bad, files just copied over to the new iMac very well. I just downloaded CCC - coupla questions: 1. I feel like making two separate backups, one of my whole drive and then one of my user folder, as if I backup every couple of days and the system does something weird, wouldn't it be better to have a system to revert to? Absolutely 2. Can CCC do this? This is CCC's main purpose; creating a bootable exact copy. 3. Does CCC copy things in a way that I can look at them, unlike the file the Maxtor software created? I use the external to rescue things from time to time if a file gets corrupted or I erase it or save over it by accident, and want to just get back this one file. CCC makes an exact copy of your hard drive, so it's like any drive with files on it. 4. Is Time Machine still a flaky app? (It is sitting here right in the dock, but I remember hearing wierd tales awhile back) With local drives I haven't had any problems. There are occasional 'Time machine failed' errors, but the next time it runs it's ok. A number of folks use it at work and I've not heard any complaints. 5. In case of system problems, kind of how does it work with a bootable drive? Can you copy back everything, even the system? Fonts, settings, drivers? That's the idea, right? Exactly. You use CCC to copy everything back. A Time Machine volume can do that as well, but as part of an OSX install. A professor at work had a drive failure on his G5 and this worked perfectly for him when he got the replacement drive. Thanks in advance to those who know! Anne Keller Smith Down to Earth Web Design G4 Quicksilver 733mHz Tower 896 MB RAM, 40 GB hard drive, OS 10.4.11 Intel iMac 2.4gHz Core 2 Duo 1GB RAM, 250GB Hard Drive, OS 10.5.5 Intel iMac 2.66gHz Core 2 Duo 2GB RAM, 264GB Hard Drive, OS 10.5.6 mailto:earth...@ptd.net http://www.downtoearthweb.com -- Bruce Johnson U of Az College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions don't have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CCC and Backups
On Apr 26, 2009, at 10:09 PM, Anne Keller-Smith wrote: On Apr 26, 2009, at 2:09 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: 1. I feel like making two separate backups, one of my whole drive and then one of my user folder, as if I backup every couple of days and the system does something weird, wouldn't it be better to have a system to revert to? Absolutely I think I did not post this question properly. Should I backup the whole system once and then not update that backup until the next system update, and then separately backup the user files, nearly every day? The reason to do this would be that if you back up the System every day, would you not be backing up whatever errors have crept into it, thereby rendering the backup problematic when a problem occurs? Does this make sense? Your concern and question make sense. Lets separate things a bit, Backups, Bootable systems, may or may not be equivalent. If you have a 'clone' bootable system, as long as you 'boot' that system on a 'hardware package' with at least the minimum hardware NEEDED, Then you have YOUR system, as of the time of the 'clone; operation. If all you have are 'backups', then you need to duplicate the original hardware, install the OS, and applications needed, and then restore your backups. With todays costs for HD space, I can't see NOT backing up the whole thing. My systems, (3-MDDs, 1 PB) all have a 55-60 GB partition on the internal HD. I have a couple of large Firewire HDs, partitioned with multiple partitions of approximately 60GB. These partitions contain several generations of system clones. I use SuperDuper! -- it has a setting to 'update/clone', which will update a previously made clone to match today. which usually is 20 minutes or less.(18GB of used space) I can 'swap hardware' and be back up running for only the 'physical swap boot up' time. The only time that I would be using a current system that was having problems, would be to clear out the space to restore a known good system, (one of the clone copies) while still being able to look at and retrieve data from the 'current' system. HTH Chuck D. Anne Keller Smith Down to Earth Web Design G4 Quicksilver 733mHz Tower 896 MB RAM, 40 GB hard drive, OS 10.4.11 Intel iMac 2.4gHz Core 2 Duo 1GB RAM, 250GB Hard Drive, OS 10.5.5 Intel iMac 2.66gHz Core 2 Duo 2GB RAM, 264GB Hard Drive, OS 10.5.6 mailto:earth...@ptd.net http://www.downtoearthweb.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CCC and Backups
At 10:09 PM -0400 4/26/09, Anne Keller-Smith wrote: On Apr 26, 2009, at 2:09 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: 1. I feel like making two separate backups, one of my whole drive and then one of my user folder, as if I backup every couple of days and the system does something weird, wouldn't it be better to have a system to revert to? Absolutely I think I did not post this question properly. Should I backup the whole system once and then not update that backup until the next system update, and then separately backup the user files, nearly every day? The reason to do this would be that if you back up the System every day, would you not be backing up whatever errors have crept into it, thereby rendering the backup problematic when a problem occurs? Does this make sense? Yes, and that would be the preferable way to do it assuming you have the drive space. You may want to do periodic backups of the whole system more frequently than that, as there are always little changes that you're making there (application and system updates, and probably other changes as well). In fact, it's best if you keep more than one copy of the whole system if you can - one older version, and one more recent version. Just in case one of your backups isn't good. (in commercial environments it's not uncommon to save backups nightly, weekly, monthly, and yearly, but that might be overkill for you. I do it on my servers.) -- Bill Christensen http://greenbuilder.com/contact/ Green Building Professionals Directory: http://directory.greenbuilder.com Sustainable Building Calendar: http://www.greenbuilder.com/calendar/ Green Real Estate: http://www.greenbuilder.com/realestate/ Straw Bale Registry: http://sbregistry.greenbuilder.com/ Books/videos/software: http://bookstore.greenbuilder.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
CCC and Backups
I'm on the verge of getting a bootable external hard drive. Presently I have two - a Fantom and a Maxtor, non-bootables, around 200 gigs each. They are meant to be dupes of each other, contain my user folder and archives. (Altho the archives are not *quite* dups any more if you want me to be honest, as one drive is at the safe deposit box and one at the house, so it's hard to compare if you know what I mean.) The Maxtor came with some software I've been using for backup, but I don't like the wierd single file it generates, so did this only once and then did just copy of things with it, which seems to work well, more or less. As you know, the G4 did some weird things earlier this week, so I was glad to have the external! And it wasn't bad, files just copied over to the new iMac very well. I just downloaded CCC - coupla questions: 1. I feel like making two separate backups, one of my whole drive and then one of my user folder, as if I backup every couple of days and the system does something weird, wouldn't it be better to have a system to revert to? 2. Can CCC do this? 3. Does CCC copy things in a way that I can look at them, unlike the file the Maxtor software created? I use the external to rescue things from time to time if a file gets corrupted or I erase it or save over it by accident, and want to just get back this one file. 4. Is Time Machine still a flaky app? (It is sitting here right in the dock, but I remember hearing wierd tales awhile back) 5. In case of system problems, kind of how does it work with a bootable drive? Can you copy back everything, even the system? Fonts, settings, drivers? That's the idea, right? Thanks in advance to those who know! Anne Keller Smith Down to Earth Web Design G4 Quicksilver 733mHz Tower 896 MB RAM, 40 GB hard drive, OS 10.4.11 Intel iMac 2.4gHz Core 2 Duo 1GB RAM, 250GB Hard Drive, OS 10.5.5 Intel iMac 2.66gHz Core 2 Duo 2GB RAM, 264GB Hard Drive, OS 10.5.6 mailto:earth...@ptd.net http://www.downtoearthweb.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
