Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi where did you find the joke game audio version of The hobbit, the true story? since I was just wondering since I would love to hear it. from Mich. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games I found an audio version of that joke Hobbit game. Pretty funy. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Jacob Kruger Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 9:47 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Will also just say there are various interactive fiction format versions of the original, stand-alone IF game, the hobbit out there, including one joke version, where Gandalf smokes certain things, etc. etc. - that one's called something like The hobbit, the true story - but, some of them are in fact real copies/versions of the original game I played quite a lot in old days on an old XT PC, in something like late 80's of last century. Stay well Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 4:43 PM Subject: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi Mich and all, That would be interesting although I'm not too sure where the copyrights stand. I believe the books are themselves in the public domain, but since Warner Brothers has made the movies a few years back certainly the music, movie dialog, and some other stuff like that are copyrighted up the wazoo. The reason I point this out if I were to write a game like this I'd love to have the iconic music and movie clips from the films myself which probably wouldn't be possible do to copyrights. Still, a Lord of the Rings game would be cool. Cheers! On 4/19/13, Mich mi...@eastlink.ca wrote: Hi all. on the topic of the narnia books and if they are christion yes they in deed are. I once red a book I think it was cald the man who created narnia and it was a byography but in that book the author took each narnia book and broke it down to show the christion ellaments for instence he would say something like azlind dieing on the stone table is the same as christ dieing on the cross. to me that just killd the books for me right there. I couldn't read them any more with out feeling like the christion message was beaing shuvd down my throte. so that is what I have to say about that. now as for a lord of the rings game I would love to see a lord of the rings game. maybe using clips from the movies. from Mich. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Ok, this isn't an audio version, but, it lets you play the hobbit, the true story either online, or seems to also offer downloads for other versions of this version of the game story: http://www.solvalou.com/misc_hobbit.php Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Mich mi...@eastlink.ca To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi where did you find the joke game audio version of The hobbit, the true story? since I was just wondering since I would love to hear it. from Mich. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games I found an audio version of that joke Hobbit game. Pretty funy. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Jacob Kruger Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 9:47 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Will also just say there are various interactive fiction format versions of the original, stand-alone IF game, the hobbit out there, including one joke version, where Gandalf smokes certain things, etc. etc. - that one's called something like The hobbit, the true story - but, some of them are in fact real copies/versions of the original game I played quite a lot in old days on an old XT PC, in something like late 80's of last century. Stay well Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 4:43 PM Subject: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi Mich and all, That would be interesting although I'm not too sure where the copyrights stand. I believe the books are themselves in the public domain, but since Warner Brothers has made the movies a few years back certainly the music, movie dialog, and some other stuff like that are copyrighted up the wazoo. The reason I point this out if I were to write a game like this I'd love to have the iconic music and movie clips from the films myself which probably wouldn't be possible do to copyrights. Still, a Lord of the Rings game would be cool. Cheers! On 4/19/13, Mich mi...@eastlink.ca wrote: Hi all. on the topic of the narnia books and if they are christion yes they in deed are. I once red a book I think it was cald the man who created narnia and it was a byography but in that book the author took each narnia book and broke it down to show the christion ellaments for instence he would say something like azlind dieing on the stone table is the same as christ dieing on the cross. to me that just killd the books for me right there. I couldn't read them any more with out feeling like the christion message was beaing shuvd down my throte. so that is what I have to say about that. now as for a lord of the rings game I would love to see a lord of the rings game. maybe using clips from the movies. from Mich. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
I think it was the old TDLGames web site but I'm pretty sure that site's long since been taken down. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Mich Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 5:01 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi where did you find the joke game audio version of The hobbit, the true story? since I was just wondering since I would love to hear it. from Mich. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games I found an audio version of that joke Hobbit game. Pretty funy. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Jacob Kruger Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 9:47 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Will also just say there are various interactive fiction format versions of the original, stand-alone IF game, the hobbit out there, including one joke version, where Gandalf smokes certain things, etc. etc. - that one's called something like The hobbit, the true story - but, some of them are in fact real copies/versions of the original game I played quite a lot in old days on an old XT PC, in something like late 80's of last century. Stay well Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 4:43 PM Subject: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi Mich and all, That would be interesting although I'm not too sure where the copyrights stand. I believe the books are themselves in the public domain, but since Warner Brothers has made the movies a few years back certainly the music, movie dialog, and some other stuff like that are copyrighted up the wazoo. The reason I point this out if I were to write a game like this I'd love to have the iconic music and movie clips from the films myself which probably wouldn't be possible do to copyrights. Still, a Lord of the Rings game would be cool. Cheers! On 4/19/13, Mich mi...@eastlink.ca wrote: Hi all. on the topic of the narnia books and if they are christion yes they in deed are. I once red a book I think it was cald the man who created narnia and it was a byography but in that book the author took each narnia book and broke it down to show the christion ellaments for instence he would say something like azlind dieing on the stone table is the same as christ dieing on the cross. to me that just killd the books for me right there. I couldn't read them any more with out feeling like the christion message was beaing shuvd down my throte. so that is what I have to say about that. now as for a lord of the rings game I would love to see a lord of the rings game. maybe using clips from the movies. from Mich. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Tom. well I'm not planning on going anywhere, so if you did! ever want me to write either for a lotr game or an original rp idea, let me know. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi charlse. I agree, indeed I did think such a defense was likely in a previous male, and I doubt that someone like warner brothers would want the bad publicity of being taken to court over such an access matter, especially when the actual prophit! they were talking about would be less than 0.1 percent of one of their big graphical titles. still, it's tom who'd be sticking his kneck out on this one, which is why i think donation is a safe bet. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Dark, Sure thing. When I'm ready to do something in terms of a RPG bee it LOTR or something original I'll certainly let you know. Cheers! On 4/20/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. well I'm not planning on going anywhere, so if you did! ever want me to write either for a lotr game or an original rp idea, let me know. Beware the grue! mn dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi all. I for one would like to see worner broes taken to cort but not over a audio game of lotr but for not putting audio discription on any of there dvd's hear in Canada but putting audio discription on the dvd's in the uk. argo and the hobbett are 2 examples where the uk has discription but canada and the us don't. but seeing as this is not game related I will stop now lol but seeing dark's msg about tom sticking his neck out for the rest of us blind gamers over wanting to make a lotr game and hearing worner broes name made me think of this. from Mich. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi charlse. I agree, indeed I did think such a defense was likely in a previous male, and I doubt that someone like warner brothers would want the bad publicity of being taken to court over such an access matter, especially when the actual prophit! they were talking about would be less than 0.1 percent of one of their big graphical titles. still, it's tom who'd be sticking his kneck out on this one, which is why i think donation is a safe bet. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Never heard of a Hobbett. LOL. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Mich Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 2:19 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi all. I for one would like to see worner broes taken to cort but not over a audio game of lotr but for not putting audio discription on any of there dvd's hear in Canada but putting audio discription on the dvd's in the uk. argo and the hobbett are 2 examples where the uk has discription but canada and the us don't. but seeing as this is not game related I will stop now lol but seeing dark's msg about tom sticking his neck out for the rest of us blind gamers over wanting to make a lotr game and hearing worner broes name made me think of this. from Mich. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi charlse. I agree, indeed I did think such a defense was likely in a previous male, and I doubt that someone like warner brothers would want the bad publicity of being taken to court over such an access matter, especially when the actual prophit! they were talking about would be less than 0.1 percent of one of their big graphical titles. still, it's tom who'd be sticking his kneck out on this one, which is why i think donation is a safe bet. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
lol I ment a hobet. from Mich. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Never heard of a Hobbett. LOL. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Mich Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 2:19 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi all. I for one would like to see worner broes taken to cort but not over a audio game of lotr but for not putting audio discription on any of there dvd's hear in Canada but putting audio discription on the dvd's in the uk. argo and the hobbett are 2 examples where the uk has discription but canada and the us don't. but seeing as this is not game related I will stop now lol but seeing dark's msg about tom sticking his neck out for the rest of us blind gamers over wanting to make a lotr game and hearing worner broes name made me think of this. from Mich. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi charlse. I agree, indeed I did think such a defense was likely in a previous male, and I doubt that someone like warner brothers would want the bad publicity of being taken to court over such an access matter, especially when the actual prophit! they were talking about would be less than 0.1 percent of one of their big graphical titles. still, it's tom who'd be sticking his kneck out on this one, which is why i think donation is a safe bet. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Mich, Actually, you are still wrong. It is spelled Hobbit not Hobet. :D Cheers! On 4/20/13, Mich mi...@eastlink.ca wrote: lol I ment a hobet. from Mich. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
A Hobbit? LOL. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Mich Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 3:01 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games lol I ment a hobet. from Mich. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Never heard of a Hobbett. LOL. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Mich Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 2:19 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi all. I for one would like to see worner broes taken to cort but not over a audio game of lotr but for not putting audio discription on any of there dvd's hear in Canada but putting audio discription on the dvd's in the uk. argo and the hobbett are 2 examples where the uk has discription but canada and the us don't. but seeing as this is not game related I will stop now lol but seeing dark's msg about tom sticking his neck out for the rest of us blind gamers over wanting to make a lotr game and hearing worner broes name made me think of this. from Mich. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 7:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi charlse. I agree, indeed I did think such a defense was likely in a previous male, and I doubt that someone like warner brothers would want the bad publicity of being taken to court over such an access matter, especially when the actual prophit! they were talking about would be less than 0.1 percent of one of their big graphical titles. still, it's tom who'd be sticking his kneck out on this one, which is why i think donation is a safe bet. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi mich. Actually I'm afraid you have your facts slightly wrong. It is not warner brothers, paramount, the bbc or anybody else who put audio descriptions on some dvds in the Uk, it is the Uk's own audio description service, which like many things in the Uk is a charity. Ironically enough the very reason that only some! films get audio descriptions is that very copywrite law that causes so much problems, since the service are not allowd to put an audio description for a film in the cinema which also appears on the dvd, and with all companies but the bbc, not to describe for tv and then! put on the dvd sales either. There are also some film companies who simply reffuse the rights for audio deescriptions to be made, this is why there is no audio description on the dvds of the Lotr films, indeed I'm quite surprised to hear you say there was an audio described hobbit, since that is one I know the service hear couldn't do (are you sure it was on a uk dvd and not one of those volunteer sites who do soundtracks only but no dvds like blind corners?). Be that as it may, I suggest you direct your ire at the right people, namely the big coorporate fools, since it is them! who get in the way of audio descriptionns. Indeed one amusing point in the Uk is that while several films at cinemas are audio described with headphones, the cineams only put on audio described performances occasionally because it may disturb other patrons even though you don't hear! the audio description accept through a specific set of headphoones. this also roundly annoys the audio description service as you can imagine. Since however this is offtopic I'd better stop, but just to put a good word in for the audio description service, for whome I have a lot of respect as they are a volunteer charity who do great work in terms of access, while battling a hole see of corporate dunderheads. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
A hobbet? well since Hob was an old name for satan, wouldn't a hobbet be a female devil? :d. none of them in lotr as I remember, not unless Sauron has been hiding secrets from us, after all, she is very vane about her eyes and must go through loads! of mascara! :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Dark, Lol! Now, that is funny. Although, in the case of a female devil it would be spelled Hobbette. :D Cheers! On 4/20/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: A hobbet? well since Hob was an old name for satan, wouldn't a hobbet be a female devil? :d. none of them in lotr as I remember, not unless Sauron has been hiding secrets from us, after all, she is very vane about her eyes and must go through loads! of mascara! :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Mich and all, That would be interesting although I'm not too sure where the copyrights stand. I believe the books are themselves in the public domain, but since Warner Brothers has made the movies a few years back certainly the music, movie dialog, and some other stuff like that are copyrighted up the wazoo. The reason I point this out if I were to write a game like this I'd love to have the iconic music and movie clips from the films myself which probably wouldn't be possible do to copyrights. Still, a Lord of the Rings game would be cool. Cheers! On 4/19/13, Mich mi...@eastlink.ca wrote: Hi all. on the topic of the narnia books and if they are christion yes they in deed are. I once red a book I think it was cald the man who created narnia and it was a byography but in that book the author took each narnia book and broke it down to show the christion ellaments for instence he would say something like azlind dieing on the stone table is the same as christ dieing on the cross. to me that just killd the books for me right there. I couldn't read them any more with out feeling like the christion message was beaing shuvd down my throte. so that is what I have to say about that. now as for a lord of the rings game I would love to see a lord of the rings game. maybe using clips from the movies. from Mich. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Dark, Agreed. A lot of the LOTR brawlers and action games out there simply go from battle to battle and are based on Peter Jackson's re envisioning of LOTR for the movies. That makes sense given that game developers are interested in producing an action game and a lot of the books were simply spent wandering from one place to another. So all the action games are about are fighting in one location or another. I think myself I'd prefer a roll playing game, either text or Sapi driven, where you could actually walk around Middle Earth and take on quests and adventures. That way you wouldn't have to be tied directly into the quest of taking the ring to Mount Doom or follow a set path. In a roll playing game it could be set in any time and anywhere. :D \Cheers! On 4/19/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi charlse. I'm not sure about a none rpg lotr game simply because of the subject matter. yes, there are now brawlers and other games based on the films, but those are heavily based around the battle sequences which peter jaxon heavily extended, indeed the battle of the hornburg in the two towers (or the battle of helms deep as most film fans know it), takes a grand total of ten pages in the entire book, does not feature the elves, and is over relatively quickly, particularly considdering that in the book only the fighting force of the rohirim was at the hornburg, not everyone else (theoden really comes across as an idiot in the films). Anyway, if we get on to film/book differences I could be hear all day, my point is that most of the games based on lotr that are not! rpgs are pretty battle exclusivee and thus really just fairly standard games as games go just with a lotr flavour. Myself, I'd like to see either A, a full on exploration rpg that let you walk the really large world of middle earth, or B, a strategic game set in the eldadays similar to castaways in which you could play either the first elves, dwarves, dunedain or easterlings and have to forge a home in the world under the depradations of Morgoth's creatures. Indeed that could be especially interesting since significant events, particularly the creation of the sun and moon, the return of the Noldor to middle earth and the war of wrath could have an affect on your settlement. the best lotr game I've played recently is the rpg adventure for the eamon system Thror's ring, written by Tom zuchowski, since the writting, the puzzles, the combat everything just really worked! to give you a good impression of Moria. i've also played a good few more by Sam Ruby (one of the most famous eamon rpg authors), and while those were lots of fun, some were simply combat fests and skimped a little on the description in some places which was a trifle disappointing. Still, if you want a good accessible rp game of lotr, I'd advise Eamon deluxe. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Lisa, Hint taken, but as I said before copyrights are a factor. The LOTR books themselves may be in the public domain, I'm not sure, but if not I could seriously get fried by some copyright holder if I wrote a game assuming it was OK and Warner Brothers or someone took me to court over it. :D Cheers! On 4/19/13, Lisa Hayes lhay...@internode.on.net wrote: wEll i won't hold myu breath, but it's worth dreaming and who knows someday one of our good developers might just do a lord of the rings or hobbit game. Hint HInt thomas. Lisa Hayes --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi tom. Just as a correction, the copywrite for lotr was actually renewed In I believe 2001, and is now owned by tolkien's grand daughter. This is also why Christopher tolkien comparatively recently released a new translation of Children of Hurin which he'd peaced together from tolkien's notes, so even the books are not quite copywrite. that being said, as with starwars I'm generally of the opinion that why not! it's not as if warner brothers make lots of accessible lotr games anyway so your hardly taking money from them, and as we said when discussing makingg starwars or startrek games, it'd likely be better to brave the beasty than just not have at all. After all, Phil managed in case of Sarah and the result is fantastic. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Tom. I agree completely. It's actually for this reason I'm looking forward to seeing some of Sam ruby's other lotr eamon games converted to Eamon deluxe. i've played some of them, such as one in which you must enter mirkwood and rescue aragorn from the fortress of Dol guldur, but while his early works were basically action rpgs, his later games became a lot more free form. For instance, he created one game called Haradwaith, in which you must enter the lands of the haradrim and obtain their army's land and sea battle plans. this not only meant going to parts of middle earth which Tolkien didn't visit in lotr, but also some other tasks, such as equipping an expedition to cross a desert, and even engaging in a sea battle ship to ship. Middle earth is such a big and diverse world when you considder all the different locations, as well as the close to 18 thousand years of detailed history, that there are so many places and locations to set games, even if you wished to stay firmlywithin established cannon. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Tom and all. as a huge lotr fan my self I would very much welcome a audio game of lotr. I can even pervide the bbc radio play if needed for sounds etc. I also really loved the lotr movies but not the hobbit movie so much. I to say go for it. as for what Dark said it is true. Tolkien's son isn't giving peater Jackson any rights to film any more of Tolkien's works so no silmorillion or anything like that. I personally couldn't get through that book anyways even though I did give it a really good try but found it very boring and dull. from Mich. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi tom. Just as a correction, the copywrite for lotr was actually renewed In I believe 2001, and is now owned by tolkien's grand daughter. This is also why Christopher tolkien comparatively recently released a new translation of Children of Hurin which he'd peaced together from tolkien's notes, so even the books are not quite copywrite. that being said, as with starwars I'm generally of the opinion that why not! it's not as if warner brothers make lots of accessible lotr games anyway so your hardly taking money from them, and as we said when discussing makingg starwars or startrek games, it'd likely be better to brave the beasty than just not have at all. After all, Phil managed in case of Sarah and the result is fantastic. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Will also just say there are various interactive fiction format versions of the original, stand-alone IF game, the hobbit out there, including one joke version, where Gandalf smokes certain things, etc. etc. - that one's called something like The hobbit, the true story - but, some of them are in fact real copies/versions of the original game I played quite a lot in old days on an old XT PC, in something like late 80's of last century. Stay well Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 4:43 PM Subject: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi Mich and all, That would be interesting although I'm not too sure where the copyrights stand. I believe the books are themselves in the public domain, but since Warner Brothers has made the movies a few years back certainly the music, movie dialog, and some other stuff like that are copyrighted up the wazoo. The reason I point this out if I were to write a game like this I'd love to have the iconic music and movie clips from the films myself which probably wouldn't be possible do to copyrights. Still, a Lord of the Rings game would be cool. Cheers! On 4/19/13, Mich mi...@eastlink.ca wrote: Hi all. on the topic of the narnia books and if they are christion yes they in deed are. I once red a book I think it was cald the man who created narnia and it was a byography but in that book the author took each narnia book and broke it down to show the christion ellaments for instence he would say something like azlind dieing on the stone table is the same as christ dieing on the cross. to me that just killd the books for me right there. I couldn't read them any more with out feeling like the christion message was beaing shuvd down my throte. so that is what I have to say about that. now as for a lord of the rings game I would love to see a lord of the rings game. maybe using clips from the movies. from Mich. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Thomas, The LOTR books are still copyrighted. The Dungeons and Dragons books got around copyright by calling their half sized humanoids Halflings instead of hobbits. Other creatures like Elves and Gnomes are generic names that have been used for centuries and thus can't be copyrighted. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
I found an audio version of that joke Hobbit game. Pretty funy. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Jacob Kruger Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 9:47 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Will also just say there are various interactive fiction format versions of the original, stand-alone IF game, the hobbit out there, including one joke version, where Gandalf smokes certain things, etc. etc. - that one's called something like The hobbit, the true story - but, some of them are in fact real copies/versions of the original game I played quite a lot in old days on an old XT PC, in something like late 80's of last century. Stay well Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 4:43 PM Subject: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi Mich and all, That would be interesting although I'm not too sure where the copyrights stand. I believe the books are themselves in the public domain, but since Warner Brothers has made the movies a few years back certainly the music, movie dialog, and some other stuff like that are copyrighted up the wazoo. The reason I point this out if I were to write a game like this I'd love to have the iconic music and movie clips from the films myself which probably wouldn't be possible do to copyrights. Still, a Lord of the Rings game would be cool. Cheers! On 4/19/13, Mich mi...@eastlink.ca wrote: Hi all. on the topic of the narnia books and if they are christion yes they in deed are. I once red a book I think it was cald the man who created narnia and it was a byography but in that book the author took each narnia book and broke it down to show the christion ellaments for instence he would say something like azlind dieing on the stone table is the same as christ dieing on the cross. to me that just killd the books for me right there. I couldn't read them any more with out feeling like the christion message was beaing shuvd down my throte. so that is what I have to say about that. now as for a lord of the rings game I would love to see a lord of the rings game. maybe using clips from the movies. from Mich. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Now that would be cool - to hear actual character voices for those versions of some of the guys...LOL! Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games I found an audio version of that joke Hobbit game. Pretty funy. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Jacob Kruger Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 9:47 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Will also just say there are various interactive fiction format versions of the original, stand-alone IF game, the hobbit out there, including one joke version, where Gandalf smokes certain things, etc. etc. - that one's called something like The hobbit, the true story - but, some of them are in fact real copies/versions of the original game I played quite a lot in old days on an old XT PC, in something like late 80's of last century. Stay well Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 4:43 PM Subject: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi Mich and all, That would be interesting although I'm not too sure where the copyrights stand. I believe the books are themselves in the public domain, but since Warner Brothers has made the movies a few years back certainly the music, movie dialog, and some other stuff like that are copyrighted up the wazoo. The reason I point this out if I were to write a game like this I'd love to have the iconic music and movie clips from the films myself which probably wouldn't be possible do to copyrights. Still, a Lord of the Rings game would be cool. Cheers! On 4/19/13, Mich mi...@eastlink.ca wrote: Hi all. on the topic of the narnia books and if they are christion yes they in deed are. I once red a book I think it was cald the man who created narnia and it was a byography but in that book the author took each narnia book and broke it down to show the christion ellaments for instence he would say something like azlind dieing on the stone table is the same as christ dieing on the cross. to me that just killd the books for me right there. I couldn't read them any more with out feeling like the christion message was beaing shuvd down my throte. so that is what I have to say about that. now as for a lord of the rings game I would love to see a lord of the rings game. maybe using clips from the movies. from Mich. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Dark, Exactly. A Sapi driven or text based RPG could cover so much more than a side-scroller or FPS which tend to be linier in nature. The typical action game simply goes from level to level without a lot of option to explore the world as it were and travel from town to town, level up skills, and select adventures. Plus if we had say a side-scroller you wouldn't get the same detailed descriptions of what the towns, forests, or enemies looked like. I think in a fantasy setting like Middle Earth an audio game cheapens the experience somewhat. Cheers! On 4/19/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I agree completely. It's actually for this reason I'm looking forward to seeing some of Sam ruby's other lotr eamon games converted to Eamon deluxe. i've played some of them, such as one in which you must enter mirkwood and rescue aragorn from the fortress of Dol guldur, but while his early works were basically action rpgs, his later games became a lot more free form. For instance, he created one game called Haradwaith, in which you must enter the lands of the haradrim and obtain their army's land and sea battle plans. this not only meant going to parts of middle earth which Tolkien didn't visit in lotr, but also some other tasks, such as equipping an expedition to cross a desert, and even engaging in a sea battle ship to ship. Middle earth is such a big and diverse world when you considder all the different locations, as well as the close to 18 thousand years of detailed history, that there are so many places and locations to set games, even if you wished to stay firmlywithin established cannon. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Phil, Right. Yeah, I forgot about that. Of course, I think an audio game developer could do essentially the same thing as the Dungeons and Dragons books by borrowing generic fantasy elements of Lord of the Rings such as goblins, trolls, gnomes, etc and instead of call the Hobbits Hobbits use half lings etc. Its just that a developer couldn't use any of the copyrighted components directly unless they were willing to run the risk of copyright infringement. Cheers! On 4/19/13, Phil Vlasak phi...@bex.net wrote: Hi Thomas, The LOTR books are still copyrighted. The Dungeons and Dragons books got around copyright by calling their half sized humanoids Halflings instead of hobbits. Other creatures like Elves and Gnomes are generic names that have been used for centuries and thus can't be copyrighted. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
The problem I have with an RPG is the extensive set of rules. Those I have encountered seem to have been so lengthy! I don't enjoy a game that uses a large book of exceptions to a lengthy set of rules. This is why I would prefer a side scroller. There would be room for exploration if the game were designed, although I would think that it would quite an undertaking. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi Dark, Exactly. A Sapi driven or text based RPG could cover so much more than a side-scroller or FPS which tend to be linier in nature. The typical action game simply goes from level to level without a lot of option to explore the world as it were and travel from town to town, level up skills, and select adventures. Plus if we had say a side-scroller you wouldn't get the same detailed descriptions of what the towns, forests, or enemies looked like. I think in a fantasy setting like Middle Earth an audio game cheapens the experience somewhat. Cheers! On 4/19/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I agree completely. It's actually for this reason I'm looking forward to seeing some of Sam ruby's other lotr eamon games converted to Eamon deluxe. i've played some of them, such as one in which you must enter mirkwood and rescue aragorn from the fortress of Dol guldur, but while his early works were basically action rpgs, his later games became a lot more free form. For instance, he created one game called Haradwaith, in which you must enter the lands of the haradrim and obtain their army's land and sea battle plans. this not only meant going to parts of middle earth which Tolkien didn't visit in lotr, but also some other tasks, such as equipping an expedition to cross a desert, and even engaging in a sea battle ship to ship. Middle earth is such a big and diverse world when you considder all the different locations, as well as the close to 18 thousand years of detailed history, that there are so many places and locations to set games, even if you wished to stay firmlywithin established cannon. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi tom. another problem with generic conceptsparticularly in fantasy settings, is that they miss out on all the history, linguistic beauty and world that middle earth contains, and can often basically appear just as the standard DD world with nothing really creatively new about it. While I completely enjoy standard fantasy games (though I wouldn't say the same about generic fantasy books), if I am going! to play a fantasy game, I'd prefer it to be in a world and setting that is unique and interesting to that game in particular rather than just pinching stuff and renaming. For example, lets take the setting of moria. Moria is an interesting setting for a game because it used to be a beautiful dwarf city, but has been abandoned for years due to the dwarves their unearthing the balrog, making it more than just the standard DD underground dungeon. Another interesting fact about Moria, is that of Balins' expedition to retake the caves just before lotr (and tolkien implies that other efforts existed in the past), thus a very legitimate way to create magical weapons, and maybe even friendly ally characters you meet along the way. I could imagine a generic game set in an underground city,and depending upon the good quality of the descriptions such a game might even be fun, but it would have neither the history, nor the logical reason for meeting allies etc that moria does, - something I have to say Tom Zuchowski's eamon adventure Thror's ring does extremely well, particularly since it is such a generic and over used setting in other works of fantasy. for an original game I'd much rather it had an original setting. for instance, suppose instead of the ruined city having been abandoned, we state the inhabitants (who were not dwarves but powerful wizards), became more and more paranoid about outside attack and eventually voluntarily sunk their city under the ground by magical means. This lead to a civil war, meaning that by the time the game happens, only a few of the oldest and most powerfull wizards have survived. All the creatures in the game are either wildlife of the underground, or direct creations of the wizards, and the game might even involve allying with one wizard against another, perhaps with the final twist at the end being that all! the wizards are pretty much as bad as each other and by knocking off several of them and leaving one alone in control of the city and all the magic there in the heroes have created further problems. thus, we have a similar! setting to moria, but with quite a different history and evolving story throughout the game. No, this would not be a middle earth story, but equally it wouldn't be just a general copy either. while I'd love to play a legitimate lotr game, if this wasn't possible I'd much rather play an interesting original work that someone had seriously thought about the history and setting, than just a cheap copy. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi charlse. This is a design issue with rpgs, however if they are properly! designed then you shouldn't have to read through the rules accept as reference occasionally, or maybe have a short introduction. Again, this is something great about eamon, since the system is so simple to understand you can just pick it up and play it. As to a side scroller with exploration, even speaking from the perspective of someone who plays huge! low vision accessible full side scrollers like turrican and metroid, I'm not really convinced you could get anything that would contain enough teretory or diversity to really fit even a tenth of middle earth, since a side scroller is limited in it's setting, you can just throw anything in in terms of trees, standing stones, landscape etc, much less have enough diverse locations or locations that were far enough apart. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Charles, I don't think Dark or I was suggesting anything quite as complex as you are talking about below. You are thinking of something like Dungeons and Dragons, which is indeed pretty extensive, but a roll playing game does not have to be nearly as complex and heavily based on rules as that. In fact, the Aemon adventures, for example, only has some very basic stats like health, melee rating, etc which is all you need for a basic roll playing game. Plus what is nice about Aemon is that unlike traditional interactive fiction the parser commands are very simple and basic too. You type commands like get candle, use candle, and drop candle which is about as basic as you can get. So don't let the idea of a roll playing game make you think it has to be some complex game that needs volumes and volumes of rules or a game with a million different commands. It does not have to be that complex at all. What I was thinking was something more like a text adventure with basic commands, perhaps a menu if people would like that better, where you have a handful of stats like health, a melee/attack rating, strength, whatever and would go on adventures and so on. It wouldn't be nearly as complex as Dungeons and Dragons because it would be a straight up adventure game more or less. However, unlike a straight up text adventure you could pick a character to play which would have all their stats already determined by the developer so there would be no need to roll the dice and pick this skill or that skill before hand. Cheers! On 4/19/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: The problem I have with an RPG is the extensive set of rules. Those I have encountered seem to have been so lengthy! I don't enjoy a game that uses a large book of exceptions to a lengthy set of rules. This is why I would prefer a side scroller. There would be room for exploration if the game were designed, although I would think that it would quite an undertaking. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Dark, Agreed. I sincerely doubt any side-scroller could cover the whole of Middle Earth unless a developer wanted to dedicate the rest of his life to writing the game. For one thing you are limited to a 2d format where the only directions are left, right, up, and down. There isn't any north, south, east, and west so right there you couldn't lay out the location of towns, rivers, woods, and other aspects of the world in anything remotely realistic. About the best you could do is have a linier progression where you start in Hobbiton, walk right until you reach Buckleberrry Fairy, continue right until you reach Riven Dale, and so on. Its OK, but not very flexible since you only can continue east with no opportunity to go north or south along your journey. The other issue Charles probably hasn't considered is that of sounds. If I am writing a roll playing game or text adventure I can certainly get sounds for swords, axes, spears, as well as for rivers, farms, woods, etc, but can use Sapi to describe everything that isn't audible as well as give details of the world around you. With a side-scroller or FPS style game I have to come up with a sound for every single person, place, and thing in the game world. That would not only be expensive but I think would be unnecessary to boot since there are easier ways around this problem. Plus as you said I think Charles has the wrong idea about what constitutes a roll playing game in the first place. He is talking about design issues that are more specific to straight up table top roll playing like Dungeons and Dragons where it doesn't have to be nearly that complex. The Eamon system, as you mentioned, is a lot more realistic for something like this than anything else. Cheers! On 4/19/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi charlse. This is a design issue with rpgs, however if they are properly! designed then you shouldn't have to read through the rules accept as reference occasionally, or maybe have a short introduction. Again, this is something great about eamon, since the system is so simple to understand you can just pick it up and play it. As to a side scroller with exploration, even speaking from the perspective of someone who plays huge! low vision accessible full side scrollers like turrican and metroid, I'm not really convinced you could get anything that would contain enough teretory or diversity to really fit even a tenth of middle earth, since a side scroller is limited in it's setting, you can just throw anything in in terms of trees, standing stones, landscape etc, much less have enough diverse locations or locations that were far enough apart. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Dark, I take your point, and agree with it in principle. I would feel the same way if someone took something like Star Trek and renamed all the ships, technology, and alien races in order to avoid copyrights and by doing so lose all the history, main characters, and pretty much everything else that makes Star Trek Star Trek. In the same way just using generic fantasy races, settings, etc from Lord of the Rings would take away everything that makes Lord of the Rings what it is. So clearly its a case of all or nothing, and I understand that perfectly well. Besides I'd prefer that anyway from a developer's point of view. Its a lot easier to write a game when someone else has done all the hard work creating the characters, history, language, and the world they inhabit rather than to try and come up with all that from scratch. /Its hard enough writing the game itself let alone spend months perhaps years coming up with a story as interesting and as feature filled as LOTR. For example, it wouldn't have occurred to me to come up with a storyline like the one you did with the wizards who sank their city below the ground. Although, I can be a creative person at times I don't think I could have came up with anything that original. It would be easier IMO just to use the Mines of Moria as they are and use the existing history and facts we know about them as a starting place for an adventure for me at least. In any case I agree. I'd rather have a completely new fantasy world, or LOTR itself rather than some cheap copy. A cheap copy just wouldn't be the same thing and would never live up to its potential. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi tom. I deffinately agree on the text adventure and parza idea, however one problem with character picking is balancing the game. Lets say you made a lotr game. Well doing hobbiton to rivendell would be relatively easy, provided aragorn was an npc since your four principle characters are the four hobbits, so are pretty evenly matched. Admittedly to make life interesting you might make some changes, frodo for instance would naturally have higher int and maybe some boarderline magic abilities from his translations of elvish, Sam would be less intelligent but stronger and a far better warrior, while pipin would make sense as a good ranged attacker (remember the tooks were traditionally the hobbit hunters), and Merry would probably do better in constitution, journeying and mounted combat (the brandybooks being more well travelled than most hobbits). however, once you got to rivendell things would become much harder. Someone like arragorn for instance, who is 83 years old, has masses of battle experience, was tutored by Elrond and also has some hereditory abilities such as long life from his heritage is just not on the same league as the hobbits. Gandalf, who is for all intents and purposes a miner deity and could if he wished be as powerful as Sauron in his own right is different again. heck, I remember a very crazy lotr brawler in which you could play as either aragorn, gimly or galadriel! which is just plane loopy! If you were to make a straight up lotr game, i'd recommend just limiting players to the four hobbits only and having the rest of the fellowship as powerfull npc allies, since the fellowship of the ring while great characters do not really sute an rpg. A better idea personally might be to invent some characters which suted your game and setting better but in the middle earth style. for example, in his adventure thror's ring, and his later sequal (yet to be converted to Eamon deluxe), Dolni keep, Tom Zuchowski introduced two allies who go on the quest with you. These are an elf called galahir, and a dwarf called Gorim, supposedly one of Thrain's brothers. galahir is naturally a very fast attacker and a bow expert, while gorim is tough and strong and uses an axe, and can also read dwarf runes (which as you'd imagine being in moria is pretty useful). I'd personally advise doing this sort of thing, creating several middle earth characters and suting them to your game. Even if you wanted to retell the quest for Mordor and the ring, have more appropriate characters involved, indeed in his Eamon versions of lotr, Sam ruby assumes that you ie, your eamon character is the ring barer, and other people such as golum, frodo and sam etc yyou meet along the way. while I can see an advantage to various characters, or indeed to a class system ssince it gives choice and replay, I'm just not sure the lotr cast are really suted to this if you know your middle earth history. After all, many of the sterriotypes we have about characters come from dD which was long after Tolkien's time, I think tolkien himself would be quite surprised if you faced him with the glass cannon, strengthless wizard, or the thick as a brick meat shield warrior that are such standards of DD type systems. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
I'm thinking that this would be a game I would have to try. Not that I like only easily learned games, but having never encountered an RPG other than Dungeon and Dragons and one other that was sort of similar, I've figured that they are mostly along the same idea, and I have been mistaken. A simple RPG dealing with a subject matter I'm interested in, such as the Harry Potter or LOTR series, would be a good way to possibly start working with other role playing games. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi Charles, I don't think Dark or I was suggesting anything quite as complex as you are talking about below. You are thinking of something like Dungeons and Dragons, which is indeed pretty extensive, but a roll playing game does not have to be nearly as complex and heavily based on rules as that. In fact, the Aemon adventures, for example, only has some very basic stats like health, melee rating, etc which is all you need for a basic roll playing game. Plus what is nice about Aemon is that unlike traditional interactive fiction the parser commands are very simple and basic too. You type commands like get candle, use candle, and drop candle which is about as basic as you can get. So don't let the idea of a roll playing game make you think it has to be some complex game that needs volumes and volumes of rules or a game with a million different commands. It does not have to be that complex at all. What I was thinking was something more like a text adventure with basic commands, perhaps a menu if people would like that better, where you have a handful of stats like health, a melee/attack rating, strength, whatever and would go on adventures and so on. It wouldn't be nearly as complex as Dungeons and Dragons because it would be a straight up adventure game more or less. However, unlike a straight up text adventure you could pick a character to play which would have all their stats already determined by the developer so there would be no need to roll the dice and pick this skill or that skill before hand. Cheers! On 4/19/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: The problem I have with an RPG is the extensive set of rules. Those I have encountered seem to have been so lengthy! I don't enjoy a game that uses a large book of exceptions to a lengthy set of rules. This is why I would prefer a side scroller. There would be room for exploration if the game were designed, although I would think that it would quite an undertaking. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Sound creation sure would be time consuming, and the north/south restrictions would be even worse, and unrealistic. And you're most likely right about the RPGs not being as I thought. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi Dark, Agreed. I sincerely doubt any side-scroller could cover the whole of Middle Earth unless a developer wanted to dedicate the rest of his life to writing the game. For one thing you are limited to a 2d format where the only directions are left, right, up, and down. There isn't any north, south, east, and west so right there you couldn't lay out the location of towns, rivers, woods, and other aspects of the world in anything remotely realistic. About the best you could do is have a linier progression where you start in Hobbiton, walk right until you reach Buckleberrry Fairy, continue right until you reach Riven Dale, and so on. Its OK, but not very flexible since you only can continue east with no opportunity to go north or south along your journey. The other issue Charles probably hasn't considered is that of sounds. If I am writing a roll playing game or text adventure I can certainly get sounds for swords, axes, spears, as well as for rivers, farms, woods, etc, but can use Sapi to describe everything that isn't audible as well as give details of the world around you. With a side-scroller or FPS style game I have to come up with a sound for every single person, place, and thing in the game world. That would not only be expensive but I think would be unnecessary to boot since there are easier ways around this problem. Plus as you said I think Charles has the wrong idea about what constitutes a roll playing game in the first place. He is talking about design issues that are more specific to straight up table top roll playing like Dungeons and Dragons where it doesn't have to be nearly that complex. The Eamon system, as you mentioned, is a lot more realistic for something like this than anything else. Cheers! On 4/19/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi charlse. This is a design issue with rpgs, however if they are properly! designed then you shouldn't have to read through the rules accept as reference occasionally, or maybe have a short introduction. Again, this is something great about eamon, since the system is so simple to understand you can just pick it up and play it. As to a side scroller with exploration, even speaking from the perspective of someone who plays huge! low vision accessible full side scrollers like turrican and metroid, I'm not really convinced you could get anything that would contain enough teretory or diversity to really fit even a tenth of middle earth, since a side scroller is limited in it's setting, you can just throw anything in in terms of trees, standing stones, landscape etc, much less have enough diverse locations or locations that were far enough apart. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Dark, True enough. However, it is still none-the-less a personal risk. Weather anything comes of it or not is anyone's guess. That said, there is still quite a bit of wiggle room when it comes to copyrights. There are some gray areas such as fan fiction that is seriously challenging the big money hungry companies when it comes to absolute control over copyrights and trademarks, and it is to this niche we as audio game developers can attempt to squeeze into. What it comes down to is the intention of the laws, and how they have slowly changed over the years. When the U.S. Copyright Act was originally written the basic intention was to keep someone from profiting from a work or idea created by someone else. If I wrote a book, for example, you couldn't just copy it word for word and sell it to another party because it was copyrighted. Then, that basic idea was extended to include specific things in the book such as people, places, and things that were unique to that book. However, these days it seems the companies are pushing the boundaries of those laws, and insisting on things that were never intended by the original copyright laws and is largely unenforceable. For example, if you download an audio book from Audible you'll probably get some standard warning to the effect not to transmit this audio book via email, Internet download, not to stream the recording, or play this recording in front of a live audience. Its to this latter point that I find a bit disturbing. As I don't see anything wrong with buying an audio book and playing it with a bunch of friends or in front of a class of students. Yet, according to the copyright notice that sort of public use is impermissible, and I think could be challenged if push came to shove. When I was a student in grade school our V.I. teacher use to get audio books from the National Library Service and play a chapter or so every day after lunch. All the kids would gather around and listen to the book, and then answer questions about it the teacher asked. I think this is a pretty fair use of the audio book, and even if it were obtained from Audible instead of NLS I think they shouldn't have the right to restrict someone like a school teacher from playing an audio book in front of her class. That seems to me to be a perfectly fair use of that audio recording. However, it sounds like the companies that produce books on tape, CD, and for digital download have other ideas of what is and is not fair use of that recording. The reason I am saying all of this is to point out that over the years the intended use of the copyright laws have changed, and corporations with lots of money invested in their products have used copyright laws to beat people over the head and beat them into submission. In some cases what the corporations demand isn't even entitled to them under the current copyright laws, and since most people don't know their rights they often get run over by the greedy companies who want to control everything, and squeeze every dime they can out of their customers one way or another. Now, though, thanks to the rise of the Internet companies are having problems holding onto their copyrights and many people, common people, are willing to test the boundaries of copyright law. Fan fiction is one area where we see this happening. There are a number of fan fiction sites where people can submit stories on Star Wars, Harry Potter, Batman, or whatever and have it read by the rest of the world. Some publishers have taken the fan fiction sites to court only to get their butts royally kicked for their efforts. So thanks to the efforts of fan fiction people are beginning to take back their rights, and telling Warner Brothers and other companies like them we are not going to give them absolute control over this content. That the community has some rights under the fair use clause of the U.S. Copyright Act and we will darn well use them. Basically, I think if a developer, such as myself, decides to create a LOTR game as long as it was free, I wasn't making a profit off of it, I could probably claim it is a type of fan fiction. As such I could use the same fair use clause they use to legally keep running fan fiction sites even though it makes the copyright holders madder than a crazy rat with his tail on fire. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi tom. It's also worth noting that as far as rules and rpgs go, if you've got a good m, you don't even need to be a rules master for tabletop games either. i played six months of our mutants and masterminds campeigne before our gm bought me a copy of the rules in pdf format as a christmas present, and even then i didn't read them all through start to finish but just checked specific stuff, neither do I have any of the extra books that various people use, indeed much of what we do in mutants is based on rp, rather than dice mechanics, or at least we work out what to do first then the gm! converts it into numbers :D. As regards side scrollers, I will point out A, that just because something is a side scroller that doesn't mean it can't have background doors. mega man zero for instance had a full and complex layout for it's main 2D base, by employing doors in the background you could choose to enter. Also, remember that by clever tricks of mapping you can simulate many terrain types. for example, say instead of having a hill facing the player, ie, you just start at the bottom and move up to the top in a diagonal, I do as super marrio brothers 2 (the one where you pick up and chuck vegies), did, and have the hill essentially in the background facing the player. players could! climbe up the left side to the top, but they could also walk straight along the bottom then jump up ledges above their heads, essentially going up the front of the hill, or indeed go to the far right and then climb back up and left. While I agree that you cannot have a full four directional map in side scrollers, you can still! use a lot of terrain tricks to up the complexity of your layout, especially on a very large map, which was of course something which the sorts of side scrollers i most enjoy, the large exploration ones like metroid and turrican took full advantage of, though of course middle earth would still! be too large as a side scroller. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi tom. well I don't mind generic fantasy concepts in games, but history and background can mean so much more. There are plenty of Eamon games (and others), which basically take the form of adventurer going into generic undergorund dungeon full of goblins, rats etc, grabbing treasure and getting out. i enjoy these for what they are, but I do feel I miss the history and it's certainly something that would add to the game for me considderably, likewise, a simply irect copy of lotr, say a game in which you entered a ruined dwarf city called mordin and fought a demon on a narrow bridge would be even less enjoyable than a generic underground dungeon with no explanation at all, since it'd would feel! like a cheap copy. This is in fact one reason I hate terry brooks, but his sword of shanara particularly, since the plot, the characters, the world, are so blatantly thefts from tolkien it's unbelievable. while I don't particularly wrate any of his other books either since they are pretty much standard DD fair, (I found I could put a class on every character just by their description), Sword of shanara annoygs me particularly because it is such! a direct copy of tolkien. As to the creative process, well to be honest I'm the other way around. Programming rather baffles me, but ideas for plots, settings, characters, ideas for game design come very easily to me for some reason as you might have noticed. indeed, if you would like to work on an rpg collaboratively in some form, let me know off list, (I also love writing history and background for fantasy kingdoms as well). Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
HI Charlse. It sounds as if you got a bad intro to rpgs really, especially if your DD gm didn't give you a full introduction. i'd recommend taking a look at some of the gamebooks around the net on sites like fighting fantasy project or project.aon, or maybe games like sryth, plus if you have easy access to a 32 bit windows 7, maybe trying eamon deluxe too. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Dark, Lol! Yeah, I think Tolkien would be pretty surprised at such Dungeons and Dragons type characters, because they were designed for a special game system and not really to tell a story the way the characters in LOTR were. None of the wizards in LOTR are strengthless wimps, and none of the warriors are thick as a brick meet shields. :D In any case I agree the main characters for LOTR are really unsuited for an RPG game. It would be better to create new and original characters that tell their own story, choose their own adventure in Middle Earth, and that through the course of their adventures meet Aragon, Gandalf, and so on. There are two good reasons for this. First, you can claim your game is fan fiction. You are not outright basing it on Tolkien's works, but only using his world and characters as a setting for your own story. Second, you have the freedom to step outside of accepted cannon to tell new stories and have new adventures not covered by the original saga. Since this is a game I'd assume people wouldn't mind having some new content that isn't strictly cannon, but sticks to cannon when and where possible. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Tom. You are right, coorporations these days just think they can push people around and exact money, despite whether it is reasonable or not. For instance, some cinemas have started disallowing people from taking their own sweets and drinks in, despite the fact that the cinema charges about three times the price you'd pay on a highstreet. The result? people simply put stuff in their bags, and in britain at least nobody has had the gaul to try and search patrons for food not perchiced on the premises (there would be a real! legal stink about that one), indeed most of my local cinemas don't even try anymore even if you do walk in bltantly carrying a bottle of coke or a bag of popcorn from the local supermarkit. certainly, as you said yourself, a free game is like a fanfic, so there is no arguement there, indeed various retro remakes exist of games like starwars, doctor who etc, (and of course plenty of freeware remakes of commercial games using original graphics), not to mention youtube vids and the like. Even with paying for a game, I still think there is a chance since A, Phil has managed fine with sarah which is a commercial harry potter game, and B, it's not as if warner brothers, paramount etc create a hole bunch of accessible games. They cannot claime that an audio game is taking money away from them, since it's not as if they are producing anything even in the same genre. while i know you got a cease and desist letter over monti, my brother, who is a solicitor, frequently says such letters are basically sent by solicitors to scare people into compliance, even when there is no case. For example, we once got a letter from the solicitor of the garrage at the back of my parents house saying your fense is on our property, move it!), which was complete rubbish since we have the original deeds, they were just trying it on. while I can appreciate you not wanting to pay court costs etc, I do wonder how far that actually would've gone if you had! fought the case, and I think the same could apply to starwars, startrek etc.After all can you imagine the headlines? Warner brothers leaves blind gamers in the dark! Myself, I'd say on a free game you've got every chance, and even if you did! want to make the game commercial, your likely okay. indeed, one way around this might be to simply make the game free and accept donations as developers like Dennis and Aprone do for their games. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Sound creation alone for such a game might be tough since you'd have to score areas from Hobbiton to Rivendell to Moria, Cirith Ungol, etc. As I said the Super Nintendo game, which was based on Fellowship of the Ring, did ann excellent job at least as far as the music went. In every other respect though the game was a total mess. You had to mind not just one but eight! characters which in a straight action game can be difficult enough. But the AI was quite frankly horrible since it didn't occur to Interplay, the game's developer, simply to have one character be controlled at a time and let the player switch between them as needed depending on the situation. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Charles Rivard Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 3:41 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Sound creation sure would be time consuming, and the north/south restrictions would be even worse, and unrealistic. And you're most likely right about the RPGs not being as I thought. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi Dark, Agreed. I sincerely doubt any side-scroller could cover the whole of Middle Earth unless a developer wanted to dedicate the rest of his life to writing the game. For one thing you are limited to a 2d format where the only directions are left, right, up, and down. There isn't any north, south, east, and west so right there you couldn't lay out the location of towns, rivers, woods, and other aspects of the world in anything remotely realistic. About the best you could do is have a linier progression where you start in Hobbiton, walk right until you reach Buckleberrry Fairy, continue right until you reach Riven Dale, and so on. Its OK, but not very flexible since you only can continue east with no opportunity to go north or south along your journey. The other issue Charles probably hasn't considered is that of sounds. If I am writing a roll playing game or text adventure I can certainly get sounds for swords, axes, spears, as well as for rivers, farms, woods, etc, but can use Sapi to describe everything that isn't audible as well as give details of the world around you. With a side-scroller or FPS style game I have to come up with a sound for every single person, place, and thing in the game world. That would not only be expensive but I think would be unnecessary to boot since there are easier ways around this problem. Plus as you said I think Charles has the wrong idea about what constitutes a roll playing game in the first place. He is talking about design issues that are more specific to straight up table top roll playing like Dungeons and Dragons where it doesn't have to be nearly that complex. The Eamon system, as you mentioned, is a lot more realistic for something like this than anything else. Cheers! On 4/19/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi charlse. This is a design issue with rpgs, however if they are properly! designed then you shouldn't have to read through the rules accept as reference occasionally, or maybe have a short introduction. Again, this is something great about eamon, since the system is so simple to understand you can just pick it up and play it. As to a side scroller with exploration, even speaking from the perspective of someone who plays huge! low vision accessible full side scrollers like turrican and metroid, I'm not really convinced you could get anything that would contain enough teretory or diversity to really fit even a tenth of middle earth, since a side scroller is limited in it's setting, you can just throw anything in in terms of trees, standing stones, landscape etc, much less have enough diverse locations or locations that were far enough apart. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
That's one thing I like about Sryth. The GM clearly put a lot of thought into his world and the creatures and people who live in it. But thou must! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 3:57 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi tom. well I don't mind generic fantasy concepts in games, but history and background can mean so much more. There are plenty of Eamon games (and others), which basically take the form of adventurer going into generic undergorund dungeon full of goblins, rats etc, grabbing treasure and getting out. i enjoy these for what they are, but I do feel I miss the history and it's certainly something that would add to the game for me considderably, likewise, a simply irect copy of lotr, say a game in which you entered a ruined dwarf city called mordin and fought a demon on a narrow bridge would be even less enjoyable than a generic underground dungeon with no explanation at all, since it'd would feel! like a cheap copy. This is in fact one reason I hate terry brooks, but his sword of shanara particularly, since the plot, the characters, the world, are so blatantly thefts from tolkien it's unbelievable. while I don't particularly wrate any of his other books either since they are pretty much standard DD fair, (I found I could put a class on every character just by their description), Sword of shanara annoygs me particularly because it is such! a direct copy of tolkien. As to the creative process, well to be honest I'm the other way around. Programming rather baffles me, but ideas for plots, settings, characters, ideas for game design come very easily to me for some reason as you might have noticed. indeed, if you would like to work on an rpg collaboratively in some form, let me know off list, (I also love writing history and background for fantasy kingdoms as well). Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Tom. that is one reason I don't particularly like the DD character system. it worked for dungeons and dragons, but I always think it's interesting to see it changed. for example, in one varient of the roguelike Angband there is a really interesting barbarian class. As a barbarian they are extremely strong and tough, but are limited to large, two handed weapons like axes and spears. they can throw weapons well, but don't have any skills with bows or crossbows. Since they live close to nature and spirits of their tribes, they can use some of the nature type spells, especially those for battling and harming enemies, and while not very intelligent have lots of wisdom so can resist magical traps and illusions, but with a low intelligence and stealth get hit rather frequently by mechanical ones. That to me is an interesting! class, and not anything like the DD barbarians, indeed if you read the original Conan stories by Robbert E howard, conan is represented ass a gifted traveller who is extremely intelligent, indeed the first story Howard wrote was about King conan writing a treaty with a neighboring kingdom, not the musclehead we expect. getting bac to lotr however, I do like your idea of characters that meet gandalf, aragorn etc. one other advantage I see of this (particularly for lotr fans), is the chance to explore places and take side trips not in the books. for example, in the hobbit, Gandalf says that the dwarves must travel through! mirkwood to reach the lonely mountain, because round the forest to the north were the grey mountains full of goblins, hob goblins and Orcs, (the only time hob goblins are mentioned by tolkien), while to the south the forest went close to the necromancer's laire in Dol guldur (the necromancer who of course turned out to be Sauron). A game however would be the perfect opportunity to explore those places rather closer, perhaps even choosing those routes over the forest with the giant spiders. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Bryan. i agree on sryth, the world and setting are great, for all I really don't! like where the gm decided to take things after such a promising start with all the adventurer tocan sinks, need to donate to the game etc. Still, the world is beautifully worked out and when the gm bothers to write is well described too. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Dark, Now, that is probably doable. Taking donations for sounds, music, etc but releasing he game as free fan fiction would probably not raise a stink with anyone over copyrights. I might be able to get away with selling a Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, or Star Trek game, but I don't know if I want to run the risk. That said, your brother is absolutely right. A lot of times the cease and desist letters are the lawyers way of attempting to scare the other party into backing down and complying with what the company perceives as their rights even when they don't have a case. For example, a while back a company called Audyssey Technology wrote Raul and I to say that we were violating their trademark and wanted us to turn the Audyssey.org domain over to them etc. Well, by that time I was a good more educated about copyright law than I was when I got hit over the head with a cease and desist letter regarding Monte and chose not to back down. Raul and I wrote them back explaining that the Audyssey Magazine was started in 1996, with no knowledge of Audyssey Technology and no intend to infringe, and the Audyssey site is merely a non-profit extension of the Audyssey Magazine. Audyssey Technology backed down in a hurry, and we have never been bothered by them again. So, yes, these companies really don't want to pay expensive court costs if they don't have to. Most of the time they are paper tigers trying to scare people into submission unless its something they know they can win, and moreover if there is profit in it for them. If there is no money in it to sue another party over copyrights chances are slim to none they won't do it. That is why if I did do a Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Star Trek, Batman, or similar game I probably wouldn't charge for it. If I claim no money was taken for the product they can't claim I made thousands of dollars in ill gotten gains of their intellectual property and sue me over it. They are less likely to sue someone over a free game than someone who creates a game and charges $30 for x number of copies. However, that's just my point of view. Its always possible I could make a Lord of the Rings game, sell several copies, and no one will bother me over it. If so that's great, but what if they do decide to press the issue. Then, I will have to have the funds to fight it in court if they take it that far. :D Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Dark, Exactly my point. In a text adventure/RPG system there is more than one route a person could take. They could travel north through the Gray Mountains, they could travel straight through Mirkwood, or to the south through Guldor. Either way would offer different adventures and different side trips not specifically mentioned in the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings books. The more I think about it the more I am interested in looking into something like this. Perhaps if you would write the stories and game descriptions I could do the coding. :D Cheers! On 4/19/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. that is one reason I don't particularly like the DD character system. it worked for dungeons and dragons, but I always think it's interesting to see it changed. for example, in one varient of the roguelike Angband there is a really interesting barbarian class. As a barbarian they are extremely strong and tough, but are limited to large, two handed weapons like axes and spears. they can throw weapons well, but don't have any skills with bows or crossbows. Since they live close to nature and spirits of their tribes, they can use some of the nature type spells, especially those for battling and harming enemies, and while not very intelligent have lots of wisdom so can resist magical traps and illusions, but with a low intelligence and stealth get hit rather frequently by mechanical ones. That to me is an interesting! class, and not anything like the DD barbarians, indeed if you read the original Conan stories by Robbert E howard, conan is represented ass a gifted traveller who is extremely intelligent, indeed the first story Howard wrote was about King conan writing a treaty with a neighboring kingdom, not the musclehead we expect. getting bac to lotr however, I do like your idea of characters that meet gandalf, aragorn etc. one other advantage I see of this (particularly for lotr fans), is the chance to explore places and take side trips not in the books. for example, in the hobbit, Gandalf says that the dwarves must travel through! mirkwood to reach the lonely mountain, because round the forest to the north were the grey mountains full of goblins, hob goblins and Orcs, (the only time hob goblins are mentioned by tolkien), while to the south the forest went close to the necromancer's laire in Dol guldur (the necromancer who of course turned out to be Sauron). A game however would be the perfect opportunity to explore those places rather closer, perhaps even choosing those routes over the forest with the giant spiders. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Tom. well donations would be fine with me, and I can understand you not taking the risk though I am reasonably certain they wouldn't take it through the legal system anyway simply because of how ridiculous it'd look, and which thousands of dollars couldd they claime for from an audio game anyway :D. still, there's no real arguing with donations anyway as you said yourself so that strikes me as a great way to go. indeed, you could considder building the game in such a way that the game would begin! as sapi, but the more donations you got, the more sounds you added in, now there's! insentive :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Tom. well that sounds a fair arrangement to me, though I'd worry that I was getting all the fun :D. Seriously I would very much like to help with that sort of thing since writing descriptively is one thing I can! do. the only thing that worries me in terms of you making a lotr game, is that this has also to go into the pile with your vampire idea, the wrestling game, raceway, another side scroller, that 3D game you want to make and everything else. while I'd love! to see a lotr game, i'd even more like to see actually a finished project of some sort from usa games. i know for instance you were! thinking of an rpg of some sort some years ago, but not whether any work went into that game at all or if it could be produced in a lotr setting. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Charles, Yes, I think starting with a simple roll playing game based in a fantasy story or world you are familiar with would be the way to go. As Dark pointed out usually all the rules, stats, and whatever is handled by the game master anyway and isn't usually up to the player to begin with. In this case any stats or rules would be handled by the software and not by you just like as it would be in a side-scroller, FPS, etc. For example, lets say you are playing a Harry Potter game and Harry and Draco decide to have a duel in the trophy room like in the first book. Harry tries to stun Draco with his wand. Well, The game would automatically roll the d20 die, and then add or subtract your skill points to come up with the final score. Let's say your roll is 12 and Draco rolls a 9. The damage to Draco is 3 and is reduced from his stamina. While all that sounds pretty complex remember that the game is doing all this rolling, adding, and subtracting behind the scenes so all you ever see from the game is something like this. Harry aims his wand at Draco, and it emits a bright green flash of light. Draco yells in pain as he loses 3 stamina points. See what I mean? All that complexity you are thinking of is primarily specific to tabletop roll playing games like Dungeons and Dragons and really doesn't apply to games like Sryth or Eamon that handles all the game mechanics behind the scenes. I could tell you right now if I was writing a roll playing game based on Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings most of the complexity would be self-contained in the game software itself. All you would have to do is make decisions like attack, defend, or flee. :D Cheers! On 4/19/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: I'm thinking that this would be a game I would have to try. Not that I like only easily learned games, but having never encountered an RPG other than Dungeon and Dragons and one other that was sort of similar, I've figured that they are mostly along the same idea, and I have been mistaken. A simple RPG dealing with a subject matter I'm interested in, such as the Harry Potter or LOTR series, would be a good way to possibly start working with other role playing games. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Dark, Lol! There is the rub. I am so far behindit seems I will never catch up. I was pretty sick a lot last year so didn't do much programming on anything for close to 10 months so if I did a LOTR game it would just end up on the pile of evrything else to do. That's not to say I'm not interested though. Cheers! On 4/19/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. well that sounds a fair arrangement to me, though I'd worry that I was getting all the fun :D. Seriously I would very much like to help with that sort of thing since writing descriptively is one thing I can! do. the only thing that worries me in terms of you making a lotr game, is that this has also to go into the pile with your vampire idea, the wrestling game, raceway, another side scroller, that 3D game you want to make and everything else. while I'd love! to see a lotr game, i'd even more like to see actually a finished project of some sort from usa games. i know for instance you were! thinking of an rpg of some sort some years ago, but not whether any work went into that game at all or if it could be produced in a lotr setting. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
what about writing lotr and hobbit as tactical battle maps? true its not a full game but its less fiddling round. At 05:12 AM 4/20/2013, you wrote: Hi Phil, Right. Yeah, I forgot about that. Of course, I think an audio game developer could do essentially the same thing as the Dungeons and Dragons books by borrowing generic fantasy elements of Lord of the Rings such as goblins, trolls, gnomes, etc and instead of call the Hobbits Hobbits use half lings etc. Its just that a developer couldn't use any of the copyrighted components directly unless they were willing to run the risk of copyright infringement. Cheers! On 4/19/13, Phil Vlasak phi...@bex.net wrote: Hi Thomas, The LOTR books are still copyrighted. The Dungeons and Dragons books got around copyright by calling their half sized humanoids Halflings instead of hobbits. Other creatures like Elves and Gnomes are generic names that have been used for centuries and thus can't be copyrighted. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
I would probably be wrong, but if they want to take someone who produces an audio game dealing with their material, could this be a defense: There is no game that blind people can play based on this material from anyone, you in particular. You have been contacted several times on this matter, and have not responded concerning the making of such a game. The fact that no such game existed until now shows that this game does not detract from your sales. You had the opportunity to produce such a game and did not do so. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi Tom. well donations would be fine with me, and I can understand you not taking the risk though I am reasonably certain they wouldn't take it through the legal system anyway simply because of how ridiculous it'd look, and which thousands of dollars couldd they claime for from an audio game anyway :D. still, there's no real arguing with donations anyway as you said yourself so that strikes me as a great way to go. indeed, you could considder building the game in such a way that the game would begin! as sapi, but the more donations you got, the more sounds you added in, now there's! insentive :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Hi Charles, Sigh...Sorry, but that is not a sound legal defense in my opinion. Granted I am no lawyer, and my understanding of copyright law, is based on what I have read. However, the fact that said content is inaccessible to a blind person doesn't give someone legal rights to just use it without explicit permission.That's where the catch 22 comes in. If I want to use Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Star Trek, whatever I must legally license it from the copyright holder. However, the copyright holders are use to licensing their stuff to big name game developers like Activision, Capcom, Sony Entertainment, etc and their royalties are generally pretty steep. A lot more than a guy who might make $10,000 tops off a game could afford. So their counter argument would be I should have legally licensed the copyright from their licensing division, and the courts may uphold that argument. The fact I was unable to pay the licensing fees would be immaterial. Besides which you are forgetting the cost of court fees to begin with. Weather the I'm blind and your games isn't accessible argument holds up or not where am I suppose to come up with $1,000 for the retainer fees for a lawyer plus any other court fees just to file the initial motions etc. I just looked at my finances and found out if I paid $75 for the Blindsoftware.com games I would be cutting things pretty close this month. Now, imagine if I can't come up with $75 on short notice money for fighting it out in court with a copyright holder with money to burn isn't very darn likely. Cheers! On 4/19/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: I would probably be wrong, but if they want to take someone who produces an audio game dealing with their material, could this be a defense: There is no game that blind people can play based on this material from anyone, you in particular. You have been contacted several times on this matter, and have not responded concerning the making of such a game. The fact that no such game existed until now shows that this game does not detract from your sales. You had the opportunity to produce such a game and did not do so. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games
Unfortunately, in legal battles, those who have the bucks win the battles, whether they are right or not. But I would think that if you could show how you tried to contact them and never got any responses from them, they must not be interested. If they're not interested, then they shouldn't bother battling.n -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] LOTR Games was Children's Games Hi Charles, Sigh...Sorry, but that is not a sound legal defense in my opinion. Granted I am no lawyer, and my understanding of copyright law, is based on what I have read. However, the fact that said content is inaccessible to a blind person doesn't give someone legal rights to just use it without explicit permission.That's where the catch 22 comes in. If I want to use Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Star Trek, whatever I must legally license it from the copyright holder. However, the copyright holders are use to licensing their stuff to big name game developers like Activision, Capcom, Sony Entertainment, etc and their royalties are generally pretty steep. A lot more than a guy who might make $10,000 tops off a game could afford. So their counter argument would be I should have legally licensed the copyright from their licensing division, and the courts may uphold that argument. The fact I was unable to pay the licensing fees would be immaterial. Besides which you are forgetting the cost of court fees to begin with. Weather the I'm blind and your games isn't accessible argument holds up or not where am I suppose to come up with $1,000 for the retainer fees for a lawyer plus any other court fees just to file the initial motions etc. I just looked at my finances and found out if I paid $75 for the Blindsoftware.com games I would be cutting things pretty close this month. Now, imagine if I can't come up with $75 on short notice money for fighting it out in court with a copyright holder with money to burn isn't very darn likely. Cheers! On 4/19/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: I would probably be wrong, but if they want to take someone who produces an audio game dealing with their material, could this be a defense: There is no game that blind people can play based on this material from anyone, you in particular. You have been contacted several times on this matter, and have not responded concerning the making of such a game. The fact that no such game existed until now shows that this game does not detract from your sales. You had the opportunity to produce such a game and did not do so. -- If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and spelling errors! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
