Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one bigaspect
Hi all As for being able to play an opponent over the net I think it's a great idea and have even done a few times with Sound RTS but still would like more chances. I think the difficulty as has been said is the way it is implimented. The suggestion Thomas had of taking turns such as in the Atari games would certainly work fine as the controls could pass between the players. This would enable two or more people to play on one computer. Which was I believe what Nicol was attempting to get at. Playing over a lan works fine as the sounds and other info can be conveyed to both players without any interuption of either persons tactics, instructions or whatever. I think it also as was pointed out depends on the game being played. Granted for a board or card game taking turns is certainly all right. For games where one plays their life then gives the controller over to player two that also works. The crux of the matter is simultainious play of certain genres of games in a way that [and I don't think it matters if there are two players working together or against each other] in hearing what's going on and of course not hearing the particular things you should not here. The idea of two sound cards with headphones could work and I'm not sure how difficult that would prove to program into a game. One other consideration is of course how many of us are with someone who we would challenge to a game of whatever to make the investment of hardware and such worth it. Regardless of the cost of the game the additional equipment would probably be a consideration. Ron --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one bigaspect
Also keep in mind, the computer itself would need to be able to distinguish what's going on with a multiple keyboard/joystick environment. Since the computer typically expects one of each, any more than that and they'll be fighting one another for control over the same thing. That's why most multiplayer games are either ones where you each take turns, thus only needing to use one of each (keyboard, mouse or joystick), or network-based for realtime multiplayer action. You just can't do what you're asking on current computer hardware. That's why consoles were invented. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Munawar Bijani Sent: October 25, 2008 7:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one bigaspect Hi, I think the real challenge here is not getting two input devices to control two separate entities at the same time--this is very easily done if the game is coded properly and made to accomodate very generic input from the start--rather, preventing one player from being confused by another's audio output would be difficult. For instance, if SAPI outputs some messages, unless each player uses a different voice, it would be difficult to tell whose status the engine is outputting. Even if the game uses two different voices for both players, and say if player 1 issues a status command and player 2 does the same, player 1's status would be cut off (since in real time games it would give player 1 and unfair advantage if player 2 has to wait for player 1's status to finish.) In contrast, in visual games, sound is not that big of a deal, and splitting the screen into player 1 and player 2 areas is not difficult to do--this is how the Nintendo 64 did it with 007: Golden Eye when you initiated multiplayer mode; which made it easy to hook up four controllers at the same time and play without any problems. The audio equivalent of this, I would think, is to have the user install two sound cards, and both players wear headsets plugged into either card. Player 1's sound output would come out of card 1, and likewise for player 2. However, the question then arises as to whether the user is willing to spend the money to buy two cards (or one card, since the computer most likely already has one sound card) which will cost about $100, on top of the extra keyboard or joystick for a second input device, on top of the price of the game, which would probably be $30.00 minimum. As a developer, all this has to be factored in and you get to your final answer of is it worth it to implement this technology? Based on how the market currently is, probably not. Munawar A. Bijani Are you certain you will awaken from bed tomorrow? mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.bpcprograms.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gamers gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 4:23 AM Subject: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one big aspect HI all while watching my favorite soapie I heard in the story that a mother and her son is playing a psp game together. I have no idea what the genre is, I guess its 3d or side scroller. both of them have a joystick AND THEY TRY TO BEAT ONE ANOTHER. IT WILL BE VERY NICE IF 2 PEOPLE COULD PLAY AN AUDIO GAME TOGETHER. IT WILL BE NICE, IF ME AND MY MOTHER COULD PLAY SUPER DEEKOUT FOR INSTANCE. MY MOTHER IS FULLY SIGHTED BUT i CAN EASILY TEACH HER TO GET USED TO PLAYING A GAME WITH ONLY SOUNDS. THE ONLY GAME i KNOW OF WHERE 2 PEOPLE CAN PLAY SIMULTANEOUSLY IS SNOWBALL WAR BUT YOU AND YOUR MATE HAVE TO USE THE SAME KEYBOARD IS IT POSSIBLE TO MAKE AN AUDIO GAME WHERE YOU CAN CONNECT 2 KEYBOARDS TO A PC SO THAT 2 PEOPLE CAN PLAY SIMULTANEOUSLY? FOR example, the 2 people can see which of them can get to a coin first, who of them can first get to a spawned item, etc. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or
Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one bigaspect
I know that several computers have the ability to connect two keyboards; seems that it'd just be a matter of adding the capability into the game itself. Terrence -- From: Chris Hallsworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:14 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one bigaspect Sounds good! -- Chris Hallsworth e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: chrishallsworth7266 klango: chrishallsworth - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gamers gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one big aspect HI all while watching my favorite soapie I heard in the story that a mother and her son is playing a psp game together. I have no idea what the genre is, I guess its 3d or side scroller. both of them have a joystick AND THEY TRY TO BEAT ONE ANOTHER. IT WILL BE VERY NICE IF 2 PEOPLE COULD PLAY AN AUDIO GAME TOGETHER. IT WILL BE NICE, IF ME AND MY MOTHER COULD PLAY SUPER DEEKOUT FOR INSTANCE. MY MOTHER IS FULLY SIGHTED BUT i CAN EASILY TEACH HER TO GET USED TO PLAYING A GAME WITH ONLY SOUNDS. THE ONLY GAME i KNOW OF WHERE 2 PEOPLE CAN PLAY SIMULTANEOUSLY IS SNOWBALL WAR BUT YOU AND YOUR MATE HAVE TO USE THE SAME KEYBOARD IS IT POSSIBLE TO MAKE AN AUDIO GAME WHERE YOU CAN CONNECT 2 KEYBOARDS TO A PC SO THAT 2 PEOPLE CAN PLAY SIMULTANEOUSLY? FOR example, the 2 people can see which of them can get to a coin first, who of them can first get to a spawned item, etc. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one bigaspect
Couldn't the multi-channel capability of sound cards be implemented to take care of the cutting-off issue? Let one player come through 1 channel, and the other through another channel?n'Coud -- From: Munawar Bijani [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one bigaspect Hi, I think the real challenge here is not getting two input devices to control two separate entities at the same time--this is very easily done if the game is coded properly and made to accomodate very generic input from the start--rather, preventing one player from being confused by another's audio output would be difficult. For instance, if SAPI outputs some messages, unless each player uses a different voice, it would be difficult to tell whose status the engine is outputting. Even if the game uses two different voices for both players, and say if player 1 issues a status command and player 2 does the same, player 1's status would be cut off (since in real time games it would give player 1 and unfair advantage if player 2 has to wait for player 1's status to finish.) In contrast, in visual games, sound is not that big of a deal, and splitting the screen into player 1 and player 2 areas is not difficult to do--this is how the Nintendo 64 did it with 007: Golden Eye when you initiated multiplayer mode; which made it easy to hook up four controllers at the same time and play without any problems. The audio equivalent of this, I would think, is to have the user install two sound cards, and both players wear headsets plugged into either card. Player 1's sound output would come out of card 1, and likewise for player 2. However, the question then arises as to whether the user is willing to spend the money to buy two cards (or one card, since the computer most likely already has one sound card) which will cost about $100, on top of the extra keyboard or joystick for a second input device, on top of the price of the game, which would probably be $30.00 minimum. As a developer, all this has to be factored in and you get to your final answer of is it worth it to implement this technology? Based on how the market currently is, probably not. Munawar A. Bijani Are you certain you will awaken from bed tomorrow? mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.bpcprograms.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gamers gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 4:23 AM Subject: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one big aspect HI all while watching my favorite soapie I heard in the story that a mother and her son is playing a psp game together. I have no idea what the genre is, I guess its 3d or side scroller. both of them have a joystick AND THEY TRY TO BEAT ONE ANOTHER. IT WILL BE VERY NICE IF 2 PEOPLE COULD PLAY AN AUDIO GAME TOGETHER. IT WILL BE NICE, IF ME AND MY MOTHER COULD PLAY SUPER DEEKOUT FOR INSTANCE. MY MOTHER IS FULLY SIGHTED BUT i CAN EASILY TEACH HER TO GET USED TO PLAYING A GAME WITH ONLY SOUNDS. THE ONLY GAME i KNOW OF WHERE 2 PEOPLE CAN PLAY SIMULTANEOUSLY IS SNOWBALL WAR BUT YOU AND YOUR MATE HAVE TO USE THE SAME KEYBOARD IS IT POSSIBLE TO MAKE AN AUDIO GAME WHERE YOU CAN CONNECT 2 KEYBOARDS TO A PC SO THAT 2 PEOPLE CAN PLAY SIMULTANEOUSLY? FOR example, the 2 people can see which of them can get to a coin first, who of them can first get to a spawned item, etc. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one bigaspect
Hi ron, Quote One other consideration is of course how many of us are with someone who we would challenge to a game of whatever to make the investment of hardware and such worth it. End quote And I really think this comes to the heart of the problem. While there are games out there like Jim's Monopoly that will allow multiple blind or sighted players to play against each other on the same computer I've never had anyone else to play it with. My wife isn't interested in the audio games I create or like to play as they don't have any graphics. Even though a game like Monopoly doesn't require graphics she finds it boring. So I wonder how many other blind gamers out there are faced with the same kind of problem. Maybe there are some sighted friends and family members willing to sit down and play along with a blind gamer, and probably there are plenty who would just find it boring. As a software developer I need to think of that, and figure out if the cost in man hours to make such a feature is really worth it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one bigaspect
Hi James, Actually, Microsoft DirectInput and XInput can obtain input from multiple joysticks simaltaniously without effecting each other. You merely have to enumerate all the attached joysticks and create an object for each instance found. So input is actually the least of our troubles. speaking Sapi messages, properly conveying the audio environment, etc is the real issue here. As has been stated earlier a person would probably need to invest in a secondary sound card or the game would have to be on two independant computers connected by a lan connection to over come some of the access issues for a blind person. James Homuth wrote: Also keep in mind, the computer itself would need to be able to distinguish what's going on with a multiple keyboard/joystick environment. Since the computer typically expects one of each, any more than that and they'll be fighting one another for control over the same thing. That's why most multiplayer games are either ones where you each take turns, thus only needing to use one of each (keyboard, mouse or joystick), or network-based for realtime multiplayer action. You just can't do what you're asking on current computer hardware. That's why consoles were invented. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one bigaspect
Hi, Yeah, I know. I'm not sure DirectX will allow a game to poll from multiple keyboards though. I suppose you could create multiple keyboard objects, and then you could enumerate all the keyboards so the keyboard objects are not pointing to the same keyboard device. It is theoretically possible, but I don't think it would be worth it in the end. There probably isn't enough people with partners to play against to make such a feature necessary. Terrence van Ettinger AKA Angus MacLaren wrote: I know that several computers have the ability to connect two keyboards; seems that it'd just be a matter of adding the capability into the game itself. Terrence --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one bigaspect
I'm guessin that would be possible, however, that wouldn't work unless you bought a splitter to have each channel going to a head set or speakers. Which, trying to tell a blind person how to do that can lead to a thread on its on. Matt. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terrence van Ettinger AKA Angus MacLaren Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 10:22 AM To: Munawar Bijani; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one bigaspect Couldn't the multi-channel capability of sound cards be implemented to take care of the cutting-off issue? Let one player come through 1 channel, and the other through another channel?n'Coud -- From: Munawar Bijani [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one bigaspect Hi, I think the real challenge here is not getting two input devices to control two separate entities at the same time--this is very easily done if the game is coded properly and made to accomodate very generic input from the start--rather, preventing one player from being confused by another's audio output would be difficult. For instance, if SAPI outputs some messages, unless each player uses a different voice, it would be difficult to tell whose status the engine is outputting. Even if the game uses two different voices for both players, and say if player 1 issues a status command and player 2 does the same, player 1's status would be cut off (since in real time games it would give player 1 and unfair advantage if player 2 has to wait for player 1's status to finish.) In contrast, in visual games, sound is not that big of a deal, and splitting the screen into player 1 and player 2 areas is not difficult to do--this is how the Nintendo 64 did it with 007: Golden Eye when you initiated multiplayer mode; which made it easy to hook up four controllers at the same time and play without any problems. The audio equivalent of this, I would think, is to have the user install two sound cards, and both players wear headsets plugged into either card. Player 1's sound output would come out of card 1, and likewise for player 2. However, the question then arises as to whether the user is willing to spend the money to buy two cards (or one card, since the computer most likely already has one sound card) which will cost about $100, on top of the extra keyboard or joystick for a second input device, on top of the price of the game, which would probably be $30.00 minimum. As a developer, all this has to be factored in and you get to your final answer of is it worth it to implement this technology? Based on how the market currently is, probably not. Munawar A. Bijani Are you certain you will awaken from bed tomorrow? mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.bpcprograms.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gamers gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 4:23 AM Subject: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one big aspect HI all while watching my favorite soapie I heard in the story that a mother and her son is playing a psp game together. I have no idea what the genre is, I guess its 3d or side scroller. both of them have a joystick AND THEY TRY TO BEAT ONE ANOTHER. IT WILL BE VERY NICE IF 2 PEOPLE COULD PLAY AN AUDIO GAME TOGETHER. IT WILL BE NICE, IF ME AND MY MOTHER COULD PLAY SUPER DEEKOUT FOR INSTANCE. MY MOTHER IS FULLY SIGHTED BUT i CAN EASILY TEACH HER TO GET USED TO PLAYING A GAME WITH ONLY SOUNDS. THE ONLY GAME i KNOW OF WHERE 2 PEOPLE CAN PLAY SIMULTANEOUSLY IS SNOWBALL WAR BUT YOU AND YOUR MATE HAVE TO USE THE SAME KEYBOARD IS IT POSSIBLE TO MAKE AN AUDIO GAME WHERE YOU CAN CONNECT 2 KEYBOARDS TO A PC SO THAT 2 PEOPLE CAN PLAY SIMULTANEOUSLY? FOR example, the 2 people can see which of them can get to a coin first, who of them can first get to a spawned item, etc. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you
Re: [Audyssey] we are far behind the mainstream market in one bigaspect
Hi, I'd say that would be very unlikely. Even if It could be done you have no idea how much extra memory and CPU power it would take to basically position two or more complete different audio environments symaltaniously. Not to mention I still don't see how you could keep from confusing both players unless the split channels were being sent out to separate headphones. For example, let us take a side-scroller like Mysteries of the Ancients. When Angela is making her way through the ancient underground temple enemies and items will be heard out of the left or right speakers depending on if they are left or to the right of her. If you add a second player the exact placement of items is going to get very confusing. If I am to the left of an item and you are to the right of it you are going to hear the item in the left an right speakers symaltaniously. That is why you really need a secondary sound source for each extra player. Terrence van Ettinger AKA Angus MacLaren wrote: Couldn't the multi-channel capability of sound cards be implemented to take care of the cutting-off issue? Let one player come through 1 channel, and the other through another channel?n'Coud --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
