Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
I am also affraid for the community at large. We will be definately left in the dark after we go fully 64 and especially if and when ms stop 32 bit production. Xp has always done things ok, and some still say its faster. I have not found any advantage access wise in win7 or the latest office version. However we still have a chance, all devs need to get off vb fully if they can. Its a bit of a pitch but we can probably do it. Bgt will probably be the next platform to write things in. However, when windows stops vb support, the blind gamers community will probably die. I still like the old games. Saying that the dos stuff could probably be converted to windows and the vb6 stuff probably should be put into something that is supported. Maybe as I say bgt or something. but yeah, ms are the borg. What I fear is no one will change or at least change fast enough. We still have a large ammount of games relying on old tech, dos games, vb games, free and payed for a like. In the short term we can buy older systems with xp or buy xp. However as it gets longer and longer we will find it harder and harder to get things. At 12:04 p.m. 12/12/2011 +, you wrote: Hi Tom. I do generally appreciate the point that better applications for doing tasks like brousing the internet or text editing exist, - certainly I wouldn't go back to using the old word perfect 4 which i learnt typing on as a teenager. However with microsoft it seems quite often they just dump things on people with no chance to change and expect the general public to just go along with it. Take ribbon controls. Back after the change from 95 to xp there was a classic mode, which made elements of the xp ui resemble earlier versions of windows. Do we see this in windows 7 or 8? heck no! Many fully sighted users hate ribbons and the windows arrow, finding them needlessly confusing, yet does microsoft care? no! As far as compatibility goes, the case for games seems very different from the case for other software. Each game is to a lesser or greater extent unique, indeed each game may be considdered an art form to the extent that it is! unique. Companies like Nintendo have recognized this, which is why there is a wii virtual console etc. Microsoft however don't seem to give a dam, despite the fact that windows has probably the largest proportion of independent game developers for any operating system. If including dependencies in windows isn't possible, why couldn't microsoft create a package, something like a windows orientated dosbox with 16 bit dependencies and vb registrations, expressly for running older games on newer windows. microsoft however don't care about either the players of indi produced games, or the various indi developers who've worked on them, which is why an open source alternative like dosbox was needed. However this wouldn't be necessary if microsoft gave a dam, but just like with the ribbon controls, microsoft just seem to expect people to upgrade because something is newer. i'm afraid for myself, and indeed for probably a lot of other computer users, my Pc is of value only based upon what I can do with it, not based upon whether it has the latest technology or flashy displays, - indeed I've never bothered upgrading my microsoft word, sinse ms word 2007 which this machine comes with serves me perfectly well. One of those things is play old games. Were my snes to actually break, there would be an alternative, namely buying a wii (though sadly it wouldn't work well for me due to access to the silly wii mote menues), however were my xp machine to break, and were vb support dropped, i'd be saying goodbye to lots of games. I suppose eventually some open source alternative to vb support will appear, maybe a virtual machine option, but how useable that would be for the average skilled user, and how accessible it would be I don't know. Dosbox is afterall completely inaccessible, and the only dosbox applications I have are ones that have been configured to run as windows programs like the Prince of persia totalpack. Already the Eamon games are unplayable on windows 7 machines without running an apple emulator, which means they are inaccessible as well, I wonder how long it will be before all the games we have now that use vb will go the same way. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
I like bits and pieces of win7 menus. 1. the search box. I never need to interact with the menu again. run, yes I can type music, downloads or whatever a registered program and up it come. I like the office ribbon, everything is tidier, though it will be another learning curve. What I really hate now are those program that want to use custom controls oh and the fact that some programes explorer, ie, and a few command line progs work differently or display to much info. Sound recorder is also quite bad, some sort of progress bar is always doing bad things. At 12:23 p.m. 12/12/2011 +, you wrote: Hi Tom. My problem with the start menue generally in 7, and indeed most of the interface, is that it all works contextually. For the past 12 or so years, I've learnt my way around the insides of windows by looking at what things are where, and putting things in places that I can easily find myself again. For instance, my documents I've always used for documents, and for music have a music folder instead. The idea of having music insides the documents folder is less than logical to me. I then have start menue icons grouped by use and developer. I have one folder for audio games, with sub folders for gma, usa games, spoonbill etc, one for text games with if interpreters and the like, one for freeware graphical games, one for generally useful programs such as avg etc. This way I can A, find stuff more easily, but also know exactly what I've got just as easily as if I were to read the braille lables on my snes cartridges. This is why i don't like the context sensative stuff, especially sinse it's usually based on last used. if I get a hankering to play shades of doom, it doesn't matter if I've not played it for a while, indeed say I've finished playing q9, I don't want that on the top of the menue. i suppose I just like being in personal control of where things are rather than leaving it to a computer filing system which might not be as I like it, much less be reliant upon a search box and auto complete features. As it turns out, you can create folders in the start menue of windows 7, so I'll probably just try and get as close to my current setup as humanly possible. it's not really a case of liking the xp interface, for me, it's more a case of liking an interface that I can have some measure of control over. In windows 7, that control is reduced, hence my dislike for the system, indeed I'm not looking forward to having to cope with windows explorer in 7 at all, sinse once again that has far more options than I need. Again, this seems a case where microsoft have unilaterally decided what is best for everyone to have without any considderation that people may want something different. Beware the grue! Dark. - O --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Because ms are the borg. They just like chucking things round. However that is only the main persons, some parts may not. But you would have to push for it. And since you can't really damage it ms can just go ahead etc. I have issue with their licencing system to, its so hard to get one, if you loose it you may as well buy another program and oh 1 system only? It insures you have to get another coppy and end up with 3 hundred coppies of the same thing for that many systems. At 12:24 p.m. 12/12/2011 +, you wrote: So if this is the reason we all love windows, why don't microsoft considder keeping it so? Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf yep, and its exactly because of the backwards compatibility that we all love windows. you can run anything, on nearly anything. yes, thats changing, but it has to, at some point. dallas On 12/12/2011 08:44, Alex Kenny wrote: Hi, Actually, Microsoft goes to great lengths to ensure backward-compatibility, much more than many other tech companies. If Microsoft behaved like Apple, i can garuntee that you would not be able to run VB games on modern machines, because MS would have removed support from their OS as soon as they decided to stop supporting it. Take the Windows API, for example. It's been around since 1985, and in order to ensure compatibility, MS just continued to add functionality and hacks. Because of this, the API has become extremely bloated with some redundant functions and annoying limitations. In Windows 8, they've created a whole new API, but are still supporting the old Windows API, despite the fact that it probably adds incredible bloat and increases the complexity of the OS. Because of this, I have to disagree with you that MS doesn't care about backward-compatibility. They have many, many faults, but that's not one of them. There comes a time when backward-compatibility must be broken to allow for improvement. We had to say goodbye to the DOS command prompt, Windows 9X and 16-bit software. We will probably be saying goodbye to VB support as well. Of course, if Windows 8 is the last to support VB, you'll still have lots of time to upgrade, as Microsoft supports its operating systems for quite a while. On 12/11/11, darkd...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Alex. As I said I'm not annoyed that Microsoft update their os, they have to, even if we don't like some of their decisions on interfaces etc. it just seems though that they don't give a dam about running older programs, games or anything else, they just claime newer = better it seems without actually considdering what people want their computers for, namely to run programs. comador didn't do this with their os or machines, even with compltely new hardware, going from amigar 500 to 1200. Even the big console developers are realizing that people like running their old games, hence the wii virtual consoles, virtual arcade and other such software versions of older games stil available on modern machines. Microsoft though just seem to expect everyone to update, buy their products and cope, because newer is always better in their opinion. for myself, if i could be certain all my games and other applications would work under windows 7, I'd be much less wary about updating. I just see this as a case of not listening to the customer and doing their own dam thing and expecting everyone to cope simply because they are a big fat company who just care about the prophit. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
thats true, its not all bad. win7 is sertainly more stable on a more powerfull system. Its just we don't move as fast as the world. At 10:35 p.m. 12/12/2011 +1000, you wrote: because holding backwards compatibilyt for to long makes things unstable. and besides, the newer codes can do more, and take less power out of the system anyway. dallas On 12/12/2011 22:24, dark wrote: So if this is the reason we all love windows, why don't microsoft considder keeping it so? Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf yep, and its exactly because of the backwards compatibility that we all love windows. you can run anything, on nearly anything. yes, thats changing, but it has to, at some point. dallas On 12/12/2011 08:44, Alex Kenny wrote: Hi, Actually, Microsoft goes to great lengths to ensure backward-compatibility, much more than many other tech companies. If Microsoft behaved like Apple, i can garuntee that you would not be able to run VB games on modern machines, because MS would have removed support from their OS as soon as they decided to stop supporting it. Take the Windows API, for example. It's been around since 1985, and in order to ensure compatibility, MS just continued to add functionality and hacks. Because of this, the API has become extremely bloated with some redundant functions and annoying limitations. In Windows 8, they've created a whole new API, but are still supporting the old Windows API, despite the fact that it probably adds incredible bloat and increases the complexity of the OS. Because of this, I have to disagree with you that MS doesn't care about backward-compatibility. They have many, many faults, but that's not one of them. There comes a time when backward-compatibility must be broken to allow for improvement. We had to say goodbye to the DOS command prompt, Windows 9X and 16-bit software. We will probably be saying goodbye to VB support as well. Of course, if Windows 8 is the last to support VB, you'll still have lots of time to upgrade, as Microsoft supports its operating systems for quite a while. On 12/11/11, darkd...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Alex. As I said I'm not annoyed that Microsoft update their os, they have to, even if we don't like some of their decisions on interfaces etc. it just seems though that they don't give a dam about running older programs, games or anything else, they just claime newer = better it seems without actually considdering what people want their computers for, namely to run programs. comador didn't do this with their os or machines, even with compltely new hardware, going from amigar 500 to 1200. Even the big console developers are realizing that people like running their old games, hence the wii virtual consoles, virtual arcade and other such software versions of older games stil available on modern machines. Microsoft though just seem to expect everyone to update, buy their products and cope, because newer is always better in their opinion. for myself, if i could be certain all my games and other applications would work under windows 7, I'd be much less wary about updating. I just see this as a case of not listening to the customer and doing their own dam thing and expecting everyone to cope simply because they are a big fat company who just care about the prophit. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
where do you get your info is there a main blog or something for stuff At 10:36 p.m. 12/12/2011 +1000, you wrote: yeah, they are getting rid of them, cause people really don't like them. so yes, they do listen. but removing something sometimes is harder then putting it in, without messing something up. so its taken them a bit. dallas On 12/12/2011 22:29, dark wrote: hMMMHmmm dallas, that's more than I've heard as yet. I thought windows 8 stil had them, though I might be wrong. If so, I'm glad and hope microsoft go back to something more logical. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
why would it kill the blind gaming community? it didn't kill the mainstream, and besides, i believe it would do use better to focus on helping mainstream games get access built in anyways. dallas On 13/12/2011 18:38, shaun everiss wrote: I am also affraid for the community at large. We will be definately left in the dark after we go fully 64 and especially if and when ms stop 32 bit production. Xp has always done things ok, and some still say its faster. I have not found any advantage access wise in win7 or the latest office version. However we still have a chance, all devs need to get off vb fully if they can. Its a bit of a pitch but we can probably do it. Bgt will probably be the next platform to write things in. However, when windows stops vb support, the blind gamers community will probably die. I still like the old games. Saying that the dos stuff could probably be converted to windows and the vb6 stuff probably should be put into something that is supported. Maybe as I say bgt or something. but yeah, ms are the borg. What I fear is no one will change or at least change fast enough. We still have a large ammount of games relying on old tech, dos games, vb games, free and payed for a like. In the short term we can buy older systems with xp or buy xp. However as it gets longer and longer we will find it harder and harder to get things. At 12:04 p.m. 12/12/2011 +, you wrote: Hi Tom. I do generally appreciate the point that better applications for doing tasks like brousing the internet or text editing exist, - certainly I wouldn't go back to using the old word perfect 4 which i learnt typing on as a teenager. However with microsoft it seems quite often they just dump things on people with no chance to change and expect the general public to just go along with it. Take ribbon controls. Back after the change from 95 to xp there was a classic mode, which made elements of the xp ui resemble earlier versions of windows. Do we see this in windows 7 or 8? heck no! Many fully sighted users hate ribbons and the windows arrow, finding them needlessly confusing, yet does microsoft care? no! As far as compatibility goes, the case for games seems very different from the case for other software. Each game is to a lesser or greater extent unique, indeed each game may be considdered an art form to the extent that it is! unique. Companies like Nintendo have recognized this, which is why there is a wii virtual console etc. Microsoft however don't seem to give a dam, despite the fact that windows has probably the largest proportion of independent game developers for any operating system. If including dependencies in windows isn't possible, why couldn't microsoft create a package, something like a windows orientated dosbox with 16 bit dependencies and vb registrations, expressly for running older games on newer windows. microsoft however don't care about either the players of indi produced games, or the various indi developers who've worked on them, which is why an open source alternative like dosbox was needed. However this wouldn't be necessary if microsoft gave a dam, but just like with the ribbon controls, microsoft just seem to expect people to upgrade because something is newer. i'm afraid for myself, and indeed for probably a lot of other computer users, my Pc is of value only based upon what I can do with it, not based upon whether it has the latest technology or flashy displays, - indeed I've never bothered upgrading my microsoft word, sinse ms word 2007 which this machine comes with serves me perfectly well. One of those things is play old games. Were my snes to actually break, there would be an alternative, namely buying a wii (though sadly it wouldn't work well for me due to access to the silly wii mote menues), however were my xp machine to break, and were vb support dropped, i'd be saying goodbye to lots of games. I suppose eventually some open source alternative to vb support will appear, maybe a virtual machine option, but how useable that would be for the average skilled user, and how accessible it would be I don't know. Dosbox is afterall completely inaccessible, and the only dosbox applications I have are ones that have been configured to run as windows programs like the Prince of persia totalpack. Already the Eamon games are unplayable on windows 7 machines without running an apple emulator, which means they are inaccessible as well, I wonder how long it will be before all the games we have now that use vb will go the same way. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi. I only agree with one thing you said and that is the fact that VB6 is a sinking ship. We need a fail safe way to keep playing the VB6 games and insure we don't lose them. And I don't believe keeping a virtual machine that takes up a few odd gigs and runs slowly is the best answer. As for being left in the dark, many of us already are and it hasn't stopped us playing audio games. This community will be around as long as there are people that want to play games. Access is improving in many cases. Using an application and denying it has accessibility because it doesn't work in the same way as the old things does does not prove anything. As for 64 bit windows and SAPI, we can use 32 bit voices, it just takes a little work. Hopefully ms will pull their collective heads out of the recess and allow 32 bit voices to be used without tricks in the new version of SAPI. On 12/13/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: I am also affraid for the community at large. We will be definately left in the dark after we go fully 64 and especially if and when ms stop 32 bit production. Xp has always done things ok, and some still say its faster. I have not found any advantage access wise in win7 or the latest office version. However we still have a chance, all devs need to get off vb fully if they can. Its a bit of a pitch but we can probably do it. Bgt will probably be the next platform to write things in. However, when windows stops vb support, the blind gamers community will probably die. I still like the old games. Saying that the dos stuff could probably be converted to windows and the vb6 stuff probably should be put into something that is supported. Maybe as I say bgt or something. but yeah, ms are the borg. What I fear is no one will change or at least change fast enough. We still have a large ammount of games relying on old tech, dos games, vb games, free and payed for a like. In the short term we can buy older systems with xp or buy xp. However as it gets longer and longer we will find it harder and harder to get things. At 12:04 p.m. 12/12/2011 +, you wrote: Hi Tom. I do generally appreciate the point that better applications for doing tasks like brousing the internet or text editing exist, - certainly I wouldn't go back to using the old word perfect 4 which i learnt typing on as a teenager. However with microsoft it seems quite often they just dump things on people with no chance to change and expect the general public to just go along with it. Take ribbon controls. Back after the change from 95 to xp there was a classic mode, which made elements of the xp ui resemble earlier versions of windows. Do we see this in windows 7 or 8? heck no! Many fully sighted users hate ribbons and the windows arrow, finding them needlessly confusing, yet does microsoft care? no! As far as compatibility goes, the case for games seems very different from the case for other software. Each game is to a lesser or greater extent unique, indeed each game may be considdered an art form to the extent that it is! unique. Companies like Nintendo have recognized this, which is why there is a wii virtual console etc. Microsoft however don't seem to give a dam, despite the fact that windows has probably the largest proportion of independent game developers for any operating system. If including dependencies in windows isn't possible, why couldn't microsoft create a package, something like a windows orientated dosbox with 16 bit dependencies and vb registrations, expressly for running older games on newer windows. microsoft however don't care about either the players of indi produced games, or the various indi developers who've worked on them, which is why an open source alternative like dosbox was needed. However this wouldn't be necessary if microsoft gave a dam, but just like with the ribbon controls, microsoft just seem to expect people to upgrade because something is newer. i'm afraid for myself, and indeed for probably a lot of other computer users, my Pc is of value only based upon what I can do with it, not based upon whether it has the latest technology or flashy displays, - indeed I've never bothered upgrading my microsoft word, sinse ms word 2007 which this machine comes with serves me perfectly well. One of those things is play old games. Were my snes to actually break, there would be an alternative, namely buying a wii (though sadly it wouldn't work well for me due to access to the silly wii mote menues), however were my xp machine to break, and were vb support dropped, i'd be saying goodbye to lots of games. I suppose eventually some open source alternative to vb support will appear, maybe a virtual machine option, but how useable that would be for the average skilled user, and how accessible it would be I don't know. Dosbox is afterall completely inaccessible, and the only dosbox applications I have are ones that have been configured to run as windows programs
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
couldn't tell you. saw it in my many searches of the net, no dout in search of something totally different. ahaha. dallas On 13/12/2011 18:46, shaun everiss wrote: where do you get your info is there a main blog or something for stuff At 10:36 p.m. 12/12/2011 +1000, you wrote: yeah, they are getting rid of them, cause people really don't like them. so yes, they do listen. but removing something sometimes is harder then putting it in, without messing something up. so its taken them a bit. dallas On 12/12/2011 22:29, dark wrote: hMMMHmmm dallas, that's more than I've heard as yet. I thought windows 8 stil had them, though I might be wrong. If so, I'm glad and hope microsoft go back to something more logical. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
I have not heard about classic start menu, but there is classic shell to, which works to. At 01:41 p.m. 12/12/2011 +0100, you wrote: Hi dark, For the problem you mention with windows 7 start menu, there is a good solution: there is a small program called classic start menu. You will easily find it on google. This program is very light, and replace the crappy mmixed up windows 7 start menu with a classic start menu like W98 or XP. I use it allmost since I switched to W7, because original start menu of windows 7 annoyed me as well. In fact the only nice thing in the W7 start menu is the search field, all the rest is crap. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Yeah they did the same with me and had a hybred os, that didn't go down well. So I get your point troubl. At 08:40 a.m. 12/12/2011 -0500, you wrote: They did that option and called it vista! Now if you don't have max ram and high CPU it runs like a brick! Remove the old outdated junk and you got win7 or even 8. At 08:13 AM 12/12/2011, you wrote: Frankly dallas where games are concerned, I couldn't give a monkies how good the newer codes are. As I said, I don't really care about how powerful or anything else a system is, I care about what I can do with it. That's why i stil have a snes, sinse I can play all the game i rather like on it, despite it being no where near up to the standard of todays games' consoles. As I said, I just would like microsoft to acknolidge this, perhaps with a compatibility pack option that could be downloaded for those who needed it. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Yeah its all about cash. If only there was some sort of converter to convert things to what they need to be at, ie vb6 to vb.net, etc. That would make it much easier and there probably is, we just have to look for it. Or make it, it doesn't look like it would be that hard to do. At 03:40 p.m. 12/12/2011 +0200, you wrote: Hi dark. Microsoft only invests development time where they stand to gain or lose money. For the most part, even dropping support for vb was based on the fact that they were forcing developers to switch to vb.net so they could sell them a new set of development tools. The basic programming syntax stayed the same, but they changed the developement libraries to not be the same as those used with vb6. They did improve the software with vb.net, but vb6 wasn't making them enough money to justify fixing the security wholes and bugs for vb6. Assisting developers or users of code to run a 10 year old program does not gain them much sales, so they will invest the development time somewhere else. This is also part of what drives the changes to the user interfaces. They tell their customers see it looks different, so it is new where as most of the code is reused over windows versions. I agree with those who said that for innovation to happen we need change, but change does not always indicate something better. On 12/12/11, Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com wrote: actually, the better codes, = better gaming possibilities. so yes, it makes a different. dallas On 12/12/2011 23:13, dark wrote: Frankly dallas where games are concerned, I couldn't give a monkies how good the newer codes are. As I said, I don't really care about how powerful or anything else a system is, I care about what I can do with it. That's why i stil have a snes, sinse I can play all the game i rather like on it, despite it being no where near up to the standard of todays games' consoles. As I said, I just would like microsoft to acknolidge this, perhaps with a compatibility pack option that could be downloaded for those who needed it. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
I like the start menu in win7 to, I have got used to the columns and actually like it for the most part. At 09:02 a.m. 12/12/2011 -0500, you wrote: Hi. It's easy to turn off the most recently used programs from displaying in the start menu, just as it is easy to turn that off in windows xp without needing to switch it to the classic start menu which I don't like by the way. I like xp's default start menu with the most recent programs list turned off much more than the classic start menu that looks like windows 98. Also I like that win7's start menu is a tree view that's a little easier to find things in even without using the search box. If you want something in programs just go to the start menu, up arrow out of the edit box, right arrow to programs, up arrow again to get out of the search box that you'll land on in there, and type a few letter of what you want, like gm for GMA tank commander or you could type aud hit right arrow type gm right arrow type ta for tank commander right arrow type pl for play though I believe you'd already be on play so you might get unexpected results in that particular case. What I don't like about 7's start menu is that once you open something, you can't close it without first arrowing up to the actual item you're inside, so if you're in the GMA folder you have to arrow up to where it says GMA expanded and then hit left arrow to close it. That's pretty annoying when you're used to hitting left arrow a bunch of times indiscriminately like I do in thunderbird to close what you've expanded your way out onto. Sent with Thunderbird 3.1.16 portable. On 12/12/2011 8:17 AM, dark wrote: Thanks quentin, It's good to know that someone! in the open source community has thought the same and won't accept what microsoft give out. Certainly when I do have to get windows 7 I'll have a look for that program. i've heard of classic shell before, but I don't think that covers the start menue. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: QuentinC quent...@cfardel.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark, For the problem you mention with windows 7 start menu, there is a good solution: there is a small program called classic start menu. You will easily find it on google. This program is very light, and replace the crappy mmixed up windows 7 start menu with a classic start menu like W98 or XP. I use it allmost since I switched to W7, because original start menu of windows 7 annoyed me as well. In fact the only nice thing in the W7 start menu is the search field, all the rest is crap. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
I do to, I like to be in control of everything, but It was mainly because windows didn't do a good job at it, win7 does to some extent, in fact thats one thing I like. It moniters itself and maintains itself for the most part, making the interface easier to use. Ofcause as it gets more and more inaccessable we will be relying on what the system can do for itself. At 02:39 p.m. 12/12/2011 +, you wrote: As I said valliant, I just don't like relying on a search box, I prefer to physically go and put things in different places. Also, the expanded thing was irritating in the explorer for windows 7, I personally prefer just hitting enter on a folder to see what's inside it, though again this is just microsoft altering the Ui and telling people it's different. I'll probably get that program quentin mentioned. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Valiant8086 valiant8...@lavabit.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi. It's easy to turn off the most recently used programs from displaying in the start menu, just as it is easy to turn that off in windows xp without needing to switch it to the classic start menu which I don't like by the way. I like xp's default start menu with the most recent programs list turned off much more than the classic start menu that looks like windows 98. Also I like that win7's start menu is a tree view that's a little easier to find things in even without using the search box. If you want something in programs just go to the start menu, up arrow out of the edit box, right arrow to programs, up arrow again to get out of the search box that you'll land on in there, and type a few letter of what you want, like gm for GMA tank commander or you could type aud hit right arrow type gm right arrow type ta for tank commander right arrow type pl for play though I believe you'd already be on play so you might get unexpected results in that particular case. What I don't like about 7's start menu is that once you open something, you can't close it without first arrowing up to the actual item you're inside, so if you're in the GMA folder you have to arrow up to where it says GMA expanded and then hit left arrow to close it. That's pretty annoying when you're used to hitting left arrow a bunch of times indiscriminately like I do in thunderbird to close what you've expanded your way out onto. Sent with Thunderbird 3.1.16 portable. On 12/12/2011 8:17 AM, dark wrote: Thanks quentin, It's good to know that someone! in the open source community has thought the same and won't accept what microsoft give out. Certainly when I do have to get windows 7 I'll have a look for that program. i've heard of classic shell before, but I don't think that covers the start menue. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: QuentinC quent...@cfardel.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark, For the problem you mention with windows 7 start menu, there is a good solution: there is a small program called classic start menu. You will easily find it on google. This program is very light, and replace the crappy mmixed up windows 7 start menu with a classic start menu like W98 or XP. I use it allmost since I switched to W7, because original start menu of windows 7 annoyed me as well. In fact the only nice thing in the W7 start menu is the search field, all the rest is crap. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
on that note, if we knew what files and reg entries were used for 16 bit and all the vb and other stuff that would go away we could probably make a package, install and register all that ourselves as long as they worked that is. I wander if ms would release the stuff to users that are out of date. You are right though the devs have to change with it hard that it is the users, hmmm. we shouldn't have to put up with shorcoming if we could help it. At 05:18 p.m. 12/12/2011 +0100, you wrote: Hi Thomas, I don't want to judge anyone. But there is a difference here. Fine if MS wants to remove VB 6 support. It is a developer's job to do something about a programs compatibility. But what should someone do as an end user? It is not my fault if a program screams about missing DLLs... OK, I can download the VB 6 runtime if I need to run a VB 6 file. But isn't part of current DirectX end user license specifically forbidding you to manually install DX7VB.DLL or DX8VB.DLL into your current operating systems and/or their DirectX (DX 10 or DX 11)? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
I have not tried this but ms search is loaded with7 I have not my own but I wander if I remove it what will happen. At 05:34 p.m. 12/12/2011 +, you wrote: Hi Valiant. In fairness I have only tried windows 7 on someone else's system not my own, so haven't had chance to deal with the search box. As I said though, for me it's really because I'd rather see where things are and physically go and pick them up and put down, rather than trust an automated system. Speed is less concern, though actually pressing p g g and down arrow is not that many less key presses than typing the word tank then arrowing through results either. Then of course there are many times I want to choose. For example, last time I ws on the train, i wanted a relatively quick game to play, and one that didn't have overbearing sounds. So I go into my audio games folder, look for a developer, and found spoonbill, but which game do I feel like? This is far nicer to do with a list rather than a search box. It's certainly a feature I'll try out when I get windows 7, but currently with the setup I use and my preferences for doing things i'm not sure whether it'd sute me or not. As to wifi networks, I'm slightly confused sinse the method you describe is exactly what I do on xp. Network connections in start menue, wireless network connections, enter once then you've got the list of available networks in range that you can just hit enter and connect on. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
and aparently its a bit slow to. Its a pitty you can't start in xp mode though. At 01:31 p.m. 12/12/2011 -0500, you wrote: Problem with xp mode is that it only works on win7 pro or ultimate, no home premium users, which is most of what (at least as far as I know) is being sold in computer shops, using Best BUy Buy as my basis. - Original Message - From: Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 14:31:44 -0330 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Dark, Before you make that argument, you should probably do a bit of research. Windows 7 includes Windows XP mode, which is a licensed, virtual copy of Windows XP. This should solve any problems with software compatibility that might exist between the two operating systems. To answer your second point, that's great that you have a SNES and can play older games. However, I've never seen you post any messages to the list accusing Nintendo of not caring about their customers because you can't play GameCube or Wii games with your SNES. On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Alex. But if microsoft care so much about customers, why don't they have any options to extend backwards compatibility of products? for instance a licenced microsoft virtual machine? Frankly, the reason they had to extend xp support is simply because vista was buggy as heck for several years and thus new xp machines were being bought as late as 2010. If microsoft had dropped support for what the majority of users use, people would go over to mac or other os and they'd lose sales. I don't really understand this business about technology moves move with it I repeat, I have my snes, which is now close to 20 years old. I keep it because I like the games on it. The fact that something is new technology has no real applicability to myself or probably to several other people as well if it doesn't actually let us do the things we want. A computer is afterall just a tool. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Dark, Again, I really think you're misrepresenting Microsoft here. Microsoft actually spends a huge amount of resources supporting older products. For example, one of the reasons Windows Vista was delayed as much as it was is because MS temporarily stopped its development in order to fix major security problems with Windows XP. If MS really behaved as you described, they would have just released Vista two years early and dropped XP. Instead, they've actually extended XP's support to 2014, ecause they understand that it's very popular. Of course, by then, XP will be 13 years old. Imagine running Windows 98 today. It wouldn't be a very pleasant experience. Technology moves on, and we need to at some point move along with it. If that's a problem, there are a few DOS operating systems that have been in development for several decades. Since unlike Windows, DOS operating systems are very simple, you shouldn't have too many bugs to worry about... I'm exaggerating here of course, but if that's the attitude most people had, we'd still be using teletype machines and command prompts. On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Agreed William, this is just what I mean. As far as I've ever found out microsoft is frankly just concerned with their bank balance and don't give a dam about their customers accept as a statistic. And lets not get on to their production methods, what they pay the people who actually assemmble! pc parts or the like. The only reason I use windows is for convenience sinse most things run on it, which is I suspect why ninety percent of people do, not necessarily because I actually like microsoft at all. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark. Microsoft only invests development time where they stand to gain or lose money. For the most part, even dropping support for vb was based on the fact that they were forcing developers to switch to vb.net so they could sell them a new set of development tools. The basic programming syntax stayed the same, but they changed the developement libraries to not be the same as those used with vb6. They did improve the software with vb.net, but vb6 wasn't making them enough money to justify fixing the security wholes and bugs for vb6. Assisting developers or users of code to run a 10 year old program does not gain them much sales, so they will invest the development time somewhere else. This is also part of what drives the changes to the user interfaces. They tell their customers see it looks different, so it is new where as most of the code
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
because most games are made with vb6 thats why. Good by most old games. and the dos stuff to. unless we change that is. At 06:49 p.m. 13/12/2011 +1000, you wrote: why would it kill the blind gaming community? it didn't kill the mainstream, and besides, i believe it would do use better to focus on helping mainstream games get access built in anyways. dallas On 13/12/2011 18:38, shaun everiss wrote: I am also affraid for the community at large. We will be definately left in the dark after we go fully 64 and especially if and when ms stop 32 bit production. Xp has always done things ok, and some still say its faster. I have not found any advantage access wise in win7 or the latest office version. However we still have a chance, all devs need to get off vb fully if they can. Its a bit of a pitch but we can probably do it. Bgt will probably be the next platform to write things in. However, when windows stops vb support, the blind gamers community will probably die. I still like the old games. Saying that the dos stuff could probably be converted to windows and the vb6 stuff probably should be put into something that is supported. Maybe as I say bgt or something. but yeah, ms are the borg. What I fear is no one will change or at least change fast enough. We still have a large ammount of games relying on old tech, dos games, vb games, free and payed for a like. In the short term we can buy older systems with xp or buy xp. However as it gets longer and longer we will find it harder and harder to get things. At 12:04 p.m. 12/12/2011 +, you wrote: Hi Tom. I do generally appreciate the point that better applications for doing tasks like brousing the internet or text editing exist, - certainly I wouldn't go back to using the old word perfect 4 which i learnt typing on as a teenager. However with microsoft it seems quite often they just dump things on people with no chance to change and expect the general public to just go along with it. Take ribbon controls. Back after the change from 95 to xp there was a classic mode, which made elements of the xp ui resemble earlier versions of windows. Do we see this in windows 7 or 8? heck no! Many fully sighted users hate ribbons and the windows arrow, finding them needlessly confusing, yet does microsoft care? no! As far as compatibility goes, the case for games seems very different from the case for other software. Each game is to a lesser or greater extent unique, indeed each game may be considdered an art form to the extent that it is! unique. Companies like Nintendo have recognized this, which is why there is a wii virtual console etc. Microsoft however don't seem to give a dam, despite the fact that windows has probably the largest proportion of independent game developers for any operating system. If including dependencies in windows isn't possible, why couldn't microsoft create a package, something like a windows orientated dosbox with 16 bit dependencies and vb registrations, expressly for running older games on newer windows. microsoft however don't care about either the players of indi produced games, or the various indi developers who've worked on them, which is why an open source alternative like dosbox was needed. However this wouldn't be necessary if microsoft gave a dam, but just like with the ribbon controls, microsoft just seem to expect people to upgrade because something is newer. i'm afraid for myself, and indeed for probably a lot of other computer users, my Pc is of value only based upon what I can do with it, not based upon whether it has the latest technology or flashy displays, - indeed I've never bothered upgrading my microsoft word, sinse ms word 2007 which this machine comes with serves me perfectly well. One of those things is play old games. Were my snes to actually break, there would be an alternative, namely buying a wii (though sadly it wouldn't work well for me due to access to the silly wii mote menues), however were my xp machine to break, and were vb support dropped, i'd be saying goodbye to lots of games. I suppose eventually some open source alternative to vb support will appear, maybe a virtual machine option, but how useable that would be for the average skilled user, and how accessible it would be I don't know. Dosbox is afterall completely inaccessible, and the only dosbox applications I have are ones that have been configured to run as windows programs like the Prince of persia totalpack. Already the Eamon games are unplayable on windows 7 machines without running an apple emulator, which means they are inaccessible as well, I wonder how long it will be before all the games we have now that use vb will go the same way. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Sorry, but what you wrote made no sense at all. Want to rethink that thought so your understood? At 04:31 AM 12/13/2011, you wrote: I have not tried this but ms search is loaded with7 I have not my own but I wander if I remove it what will happen. At 05:34 p.m. 12/12/2011 +, you wrote: Hi Valiant. In fairness I have only tried windows 7 on someone else's system not my own, so haven't had chance to deal with the search box. As I said though, for me it's really because I'd rather see where things are and physically go and pick them up and put down, rather than trust an automated system. Speed is less concern, though actually pressing p g g and down arrow is not that many less key presses than typing the word tank then arrowing through results either. Then of course there are many times I want to choose. For example, last time I ws on the train, i wanted a relatively quick game to play, and one that didn't have overbearing sounds. So I go into my audio games folder, look for a developer, and found spoonbill, but which game do I feel like? This is far nicer to do with a list rather than a search box. It's certainly a feature I'll try out when I get windows 7, but currently with the setup I use and my preferences for doing things i'm not sure whether it'd sute me or not. As to wifi networks, I'm slightly confused sinse the method you describe is exactly what I do on xp. Network connections in start menue, wireless network connections, enter once then you've got the list of available networks in range that you can just hit enter and connect on. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Just as an FYI, the progress bar is actually your position in the audio file. - Original Message - From: shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:42:14 +1300 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf I like bits and pieces of win7 menus. 1. the search box. I never need to interact with the menu again. run, yes I can type music, downloads or whatever a registered program and up it come. I like the office ribbon, everything is tidier, though it will be another learning curve. What I really hate now are those program that want to use custom controls oh and the fact that some programes explorer, ie, and a few command line progs work differently or display to much info. Sound recorder is also quite bad, some sort of progress bar is always doing bad things. At 12:23 p.m. 12/12/2011 +, you wrote: Hi Tom. My problem with the start menue generally in 7, and indeed most of the interface, is that it all works contextually. For the past 12 or so years, I've learnt my way around the insides of windows by looking at what things are where, and putting things in places that I can easily find myself again. For instance, my documents I've always used for documents, and for music have a music folder instead. The idea of having music insides the documents folder is less than logical to me. I then have start menue icons grouped by use and developer. I have one folder for audio games, with sub folders for gma, usa games, spoonbill etc, one for text games with if interpreters and the like, one for freeware graphical games, one for generally useful programs such as avg etc. This way I can A, find stuff more easily, but also know exactly what I've got just as easily as if I were to read the braille lables on my snes cartridges. This is why i don't like the context sensative stuff, especially sinse it's usually based on last used. if I get a hankering to play shades of doom, it doesn't matter if I've not played it for a while, indeed say I've finished playing q9, I don't want that on the top of the menue. i suppose I just like being in personal control of where things are rather than leaving it to a computer filing system which might not be as I like it, much less be reliant upon a search box and auto complete features. As it turns out, you can create folders in the start menue of windows 7, so I'll probably just try and get as close to my current setup as humanly possible. it's not really a case of liking the xp interface, for me, it's more a case of liking an interface that I can have some measure of control over. In windows 7, that control is reduced, hence my dislike for the system, indeed I'm not looking forward to having to cope with windows explorer in 7 at all, sinse once again that has far more options than I need. Again, this seems a case where microsoft have unilaterally decided what is best for everyone to have without any considderation that people may want something different. Beware the grue! Dark. - O --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
All I can say to that is, do you write any code? Even being a beginning programmer, I can tell you that succh a program is almost if not entirely impossible to right, just due to the massive amount of subtle differences between programming languages. - Original Message - From: shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 22:07:11 +1300 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Yeah its all about cash. If only there was some sort of converter to convert things to what they need to be at, ie vb6 to vb.net, etc. That would make it much easier and there probably is, we just have to look for it. Or make it, it doesn't look like it would be that hard to do. At 03:40 p.m. 12/12/2011 +0200, you wrote: Hi dark. Microsoft only invests development time where they stand to gain or lose money. For the most part, even dropping support for vb was based on the fact that they were forcing developers to switch to vb.net so they could sell them a new set of development tools. The basic programming syntax stayed the same, but they changed the developement libraries to not be the same as those used with vb6. They did improve the software with vb.net, but vb6 wasn't making them enough money to justify fixing the security wholes and bugs for vb6. Assisting developers or users of code to run a 10 year old program does not gain them much sales, so they will invest the development time somewhere else. This is also part of what drives the changes to the user interfaces. They tell their customers see it looks different, so it is new where as most of the code is reused over windows versions. I agree with those who said that for innovation to happen we need change, but change does not always indicate something better. On 12/12/11, Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com wrote: actually, the better codes, = better gaming possibilities. so yes, it makes a different. dallas On 12/12/2011 23:13, dark wrote: Frankly dallas where games are concerned, I couldn't give a monkies how good the newer codes are. As I said, I don't really care about how powerful or anything else a system is, I care about what I can do with it. That's why i stil have a snes, sinse I can play all the game i rather like on it, despite it being no where near up to the standard of todays games' consoles. As I said, I just would like microsoft to acknolidge this, perhaps with a compatibility pack option that could be downloaded for those who needed it. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
HI,A con Verter? Are you kidding? That would be impossible. For one thing, tins are done totally differently in different languages. Take, for example, something like VB6 vs. a c-style language. Generally speaking, a C-style language has a main function that executes, and then the program terminates, so you end up making a oop to keep things from shutting down and just run your checks over and over again. VB6 is an event driven planguage, so the program is always idol and waiting for some kind of event, which is done through subproceedures. So Shaun, you have obviously not done a lot of looking as far as programming languages are concerned. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of john Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 10:54 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf All I can say to that is, do you write any code? Even being a beginning programmer, I can tell you that succh a program is almost if not entirely impossible to right, just due to the massive amount of subtle differences between programming languages. - Original Message - From: shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 22:07:11 +1300 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Yeah its all about cash. If only there was some sort of converter to convert things to what they need to be at, ie vb6 to vb.net, etc. That would make it much easier and there probably is, we just have to look for it. Or make it, it doesn't look like it would be that hard to do. At 03:40 p.m. 12/12/2011 +0200, you wrote: Hi dark. Microsoft only invests development time where they stand to gain or lose money. For the most part, even dropping support for vb was based on the fact that they were forcing developers to switch to vb.net so they could sell them a new set of development tools. The basic programming syntax stayed the same, but they changed the developement libraries to not be the same as those used with vb6. They did improve the software with vb.net, but vb6 wasn't making them enough money to justify fixing the security wholes and bugs for vb6. Assisting developers or users of code to run a 10 year old program does not gain them much sales, so they will invest the development time somewhere else. This is also part of what drives the changes to the user interfaces. They tell their customers see it looks different, so it is new where as most of the code is reused over windows versions. I agree with those who said that for innovation to happen we need change, but change does not always indicate something better. On 12/12/11, Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com wrote: actually, the better codes, = better gaming possibilities. so yes, it makes a different. dallas On 12/12/2011 23:13, dark wrote: Frankly dallas where games are concerned, I couldn't give a monkies how good the newer codes are. As I said, I don't really care about how powerful or anything else a system is, I care about what I can do with it. That's why i stil have a snes, sinse I can play all the game i rather like on it, despite it being no where near up to the standard of todays games' consoles. As I said, I just would like microsoft to acknolidge this, perhaps with a compatibility pack option that could be downloaded for those who needed it. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Dark, That's true, but that's mainly because the majority of situations in which backward-compatibility outside the slow-moving blindness market is enterprises. Most home users who buy a new computer use word processors, web browsers, email clients, and games. To elaborate on the games since this is a gaming list *grins*, most games now are either online or written in a modern programming language, so backward-compatibility with VB or other old technologies isn't a huge issue in the consumer market. On 12/12/11, john jpcarnemo...@comcast.net wrote: Problem with xp mode is that it only works on win7 pro or ultimate, no home premium users, which is most of what (at least as far as I know) is being sold in computer shops, using Best BUy Buy as my basis. - Original Message - From: Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 14:31:44 -0330 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Dark, Before you make that argument, you should probably do a bit of research. Windows 7 includes Windows XP mode, which is a licensed, virtual copy of Windows XP. This should solve any problems with software compatibility that might exist between the two operating systems. To answer your second point, that's great that you have a SNES and can play older games. However, I've never seen you post any messages to the list accusing Nintendo of not caring about their customers because you can't play GameCube or Wii games with your SNES. On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Alex. But if microsoft care so much about customers, why don't they have any options to extend backwards compatibility of products? for instance a licenced microsoft virtual machine? Frankly, the reason they had to extend xp support is simply because vista was buggy as heck for several years and thus new xp machines were being bought as late as 2010. If microsoft had dropped support for what the majority of users use, people would go over to mac or other os and they'd lose sales. I don't really understand this business about technology moves move with it I repeat, I have my snes, which is now close to 20 years old. I keep it because I like the games on it. The fact that something is new technology has no real applicability to myself or probably to several other people as well if it doesn't actually let us do the things we want. A computer is afterall just a tool. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Dark, Again, I really think you're misrepresenting Microsoft here. Microsoft actually spends a huge amount of resources supporting older products. For example, one of the reasons Windows Vista was delayed as much as it was is because MS temporarily stopped its development in order to fix major security problems with Windows XP. If MS really behaved as you described, they would have just released Vista two years early and dropped XP. Instead, they've actually extended XP's support to 2014, ecause they understand that it's very popular. Of course, by then, XP will be 13 years old. Imagine running Windows 98 today. It wouldn't be a very pleasant experience. Technology moves on, and we need to at some point move along with it. If that's a problem, there are a few DOS operating systems that have been in development for several decades. Since unlike Windows, DOS operating systems are very simple, you shouldn't have too many bugs to worry about... I'm exaggerating here of course, but if that's the attitude most people had, we'd still be using teletype machines and command prompts. On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Agreed William, this is just what I mean. As far as I've ever found out microsoft is frankly just concerned with their bank balance and don't give a dam about their customers accept as a statistic. And lets not get on to their production methods, what they pay the people who actually assemmble! pc parts or the like. The only reason I use windows is for convenience sinse most things run on it, which is I suspect why ninety percent of people do, not necessarily because I actually like microsoft at all. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark. Microsoft only invests development time where they stand to gain or lose money. For the most part, even dropping support for vb was based on the fact that they were forcing developers to switch to vb.net so they could sell them
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
That would be because he's probably not much interested in Game Cube or Wii games. They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa! - Original Message - From: Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Dark, Before you make that argument, you should probably do a bit of research. Windows 7 includes Windows XP mode, which is a licensed, virtual copy of Windows XP. This should solve any problems with software compatibility that might exist between the two operating systems. To answer your second point, that's great that you have a SNES and can play older games. However, I've never seen you post any messages to the list accusing Nintendo of not caring about their customers because you can't play GameCube or Wii games with your SNES. On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Alex. But if microsoft care so much about customers, why don't they have any options to extend backwards compatibility of products? for instance a licenced microsoft virtual machine? Frankly, the reason they had to extend xp support is simply because vista was buggy as heck for several years and thus new xp machines were being bought as late as 2010. If microsoft had dropped support for what the majority of users use, people would go over to mac or other os and they'd lose sales. I don't really understand this business about technology moves move with it I repeat, I have my snes, which is now close to 20 years old. I keep it because I like the games on it. The fact that something is new technology has no real applicability to myself or probably to several other people as well if it doesn't actually let us do the things we want. A computer is afterall just a tool. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Dark, Again, I really think you're misrepresenting Microsoft here. Microsoft actually spends a huge amount of resources supporting older products. For example, one of the reasons Windows Vista was delayed as much as it was is because MS temporarily stopped its development in order to fix major security problems with Windows XP. If MS really behaved as you described, they would have just released Vista two years early and dropped XP. Instead, they've actually extended XP's support to 2014, ecause they understand that it's very popular. Of course, by then, XP will be 13 years old. Imagine running Windows 98 today. It wouldn't be a very pleasant experience. Technology moves on, and we need to at some point move along with it. If that's a problem, there are a few DOS operating systems that have been in development for several decades. Since unlike Windows, DOS operating systems are very simple, you shouldn't have too many bugs to worry about... I'm exaggerating here of course, but if that's the attitude most people had, we'd still be using teletype machines and command prompts. On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Agreed William, this is just what I mean. As far as I've ever found out microsoft is frankly just concerned with their bank balance and don't give a dam about their customers accept as a statistic. And lets not get on to their production methods, what they pay the people who actually assemmble! pc parts or the like. The only reason I use windows is for convenience sinse most things run on it, which is I suspect why ninety percent of people do, not necessarily because I actually like microsoft at all. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark. Microsoft only invests development time where they stand to gain or lose money. For the most part, even dropping support for vb was based on the fact that they were forcing developers to switch to vb.net so they could sell them a new set of development tools. The basic programming syntax stayed the same, but they changed the developement libraries to not be the same as those used with vb6. They did improve the software with vb.net, but vb6 wasn't making them enough money to justify fixing the security wholes and bugs for vb6. Assisting developers or users of code to run a 10 year old program does not gain them much sales, so they will invest the development time somewhere else. This is also part of what drives the changes to the user interfaces. They tell their customers see it looks different, so it is new where as most of the code is reused over windows versions. I agree with those who said that for innovation to happen we need change, but change does not always indicate something better. On 12/12/11, Dallas O'Brien dallas
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
i know windows 7 has an xp mode, but from the problems I've seen posted by many people this is by no means universally compatible. , and if I wanted to play wii games I'd buy a wii, however while I could stil play Snes or nes games through Wii virtual console, I could not do the same thing in later windows, which is my point. However this is my last message on this topic sinse I think we have said all that is really sayable here, and ultimately whatever we think microsoft will do their own sweet thing anyhow, and we'll need to cope as usual. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Dark, Before you make that argument, you should probably do a bit of research. Windows 7 includes Windows XP mode, which is a licensed, virtual copy of Windows XP. This should solve any problems with software compatibility that might exist between the two operating systems. To answer your second point, that's great that you have a SNES and can play older games. However, I've never seen you post any messages to the list accusing Nintendo of not caring about their customers because you can't play GameCube or Wii games with your SNES. On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Alex. But if microsoft care so much about customers, why don't they have any options to extend backwards compatibility of products? for instance a licenced microsoft virtual machine? Frankly, the reason they had to extend xp support is simply because vista was buggy as heck for several years and thus new xp machines were being bought as late as 2010. If microsoft had dropped support for what the majority of users use, people would go over to mac or other os and they'd lose sales. I don't really understand this business about technology moves move with it I repeat, I have my snes, which is now close to 20 years old. I keep it because I like the games on it. The fact that something is new technology has no real applicability to myself or probably to several other people as well if it doesn't actually let us do the things we want. A computer is afterall just a tool. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Dark, Again, I really think you're misrepresenting Microsoft here. Microsoft actually spends a huge amount of resources supporting older products. For example, one of the reasons Windows Vista was delayed as much as it was is because MS temporarily stopped its development in order to fix major security problems with Windows XP. If MS really behaved as you described, they would have just released Vista two years early and dropped XP. Instead, they've actually extended XP's support to 2014, ecause they understand that it's very popular. Of course, by then, XP will be 13 years old. Imagine running Windows 98 today. It wouldn't be a very pleasant experience. Technology moves on, and we need to at some point move along with it. If that's a problem, there are a few DOS operating systems that have been in development for several decades. Since unlike Windows, DOS operating systems are very simple, you shouldn't have too many bugs to worry about... I'm exaggerating here of course, but if that's the attitude most people had, we'd still be using teletype machines and command prompts. On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Agreed William, this is just what I mean. As far as I've ever found out microsoft is frankly just concerned with their bank balance and don't give a dam about their customers accept as a statistic. And lets not get on to their production methods, what they pay the people who actually assemmble! pc parts or the like. The only reason I use windows is for convenience sinse most things run on it, which is I suspect why ninety percent of people do, not necessarily because I actually like microsoft at all. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark. Microsoft only invests development time where they stand to gain or lose money. For the most part, even dropping support for vb was based on the fact that they were forcing developers to switch to vb.net so they could sell them a new set of development tools. The basic programming syntax stayed the same, but they changed the developement libraries to not be the same as those used with vb6. They did improve the software with vb.net, but vb6 wasn't making them enough money to justify fixing the security wholes and bugs for vb6. Assisting developers or users of code to run a 10 year
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Tom. I do generally appreciate the point that better applications for doing tasks like brousing the internet or text editing exist, - certainly I wouldn't go back to using the old word perfect 4 which i learnt typing on as a teenager. However with microsoft it seems quite often they just dump things on people with no chance to change and expect the general public to just go along with it. Take ribbon controls. Back after the change from 95 to xp there was a classic mode, which made elements of the xp ui resemble earlier versions of windows. Do we see this in windows 7 or 8? heck no! Many fully sighted users hate ribbons and the windows arrow, finding them needlessly confusing, yet does microsoft care? no! As far as compatibility goes, the case for games seems very different from the case for other software. Each game is to a lesser or greater extent unique, indeed each game may be considdered an art form to the extent that it is! unique. Companies like Nintendo have recognized this, which is why there is a wii virtual console etc. Microsoft however don't seem to give a dam, despite the fact that windows has probably the largest proportion of independent game developers for any operating system. If including dependencies in windows isn't possible, why couldn't microsoft create a package, something like a windows orientated dosbox with 16 bit dependencies and vb registrations, expressly for running older games on newer windows. microsoft however don't care about either the players of indi produced games, or the various indi developers who've worked on them, which is why an open source alternative like dosbox was needed. However this wouldn't be necessary if microsoft gave a dam, but just like with the ribbon controls, microsoft just seem to expect people to upgrade because something is newer. i'm afraid for myself, and indeed for probably a lot of other computer users, my Pc is of value only based upon what I can do with it, not based upon whether it has the latest technology or flashy displays, - indeed I've never bothered upgrading my microsoft word, sinse ms word 2007 which this machine comes with serves me perfectly well. One of those things is play old games. Were my snes to actually break, there would be an alternative, namely buying a wii (though sadly it wouldn't work well for me due to access to the silly wii mote menues), however were my xp machine to break, and were vb support dropped, i'd be saying goodbye to lots of games. I suppose eventually some open source alternative to vb support will appear, maybe a virtual machine option, but how useable that would be for the average skilled user, and how accessible it would be I don't know. Dosbox is afterall completely inaccessible, and the only dosbox applications I have are ones that have been configured to run as windows programs like the Prince of persia totalpack. Already the Eamon games are unplayable on windows 7 machines without running an apple emulator, which means they are inaccessible as well, I wonder how long it will be before all the games we have now that use vb will go the same way. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
actually, your info is rong here. the rybons are beeing removed, because they have taken on the feedback that they aren't liked. dallas On 12/12/2011 22:04, dark wrote: Hi Tom. I do generally appreciate the point that better applications for doing tasks like brousing the internet or text editing exist, - certainly I wouldn't go back to using the old word perfect 4 which i learnt typing on as a teenager. However with microsoft it seems quite often they just dump things on people with no chance to change and expect the general public to just go along with it. Take ribbon controls. Back after the change from 95 to xp there was a classic mode, which made elements of the xp ui resemble earlier versions of windows. Do we see this in windows 7 or 8? heck no! Many fully sighted users hate ribbons and the windows arrow, finding them needlessly confusing, yet does microsoft care? no! As far as compatibility goes, the case for games seems very different from the case for other software. Each game is to a lesser or greater extent unique, indeed each game may be considdered an art form to the extent that it is! unique. Companies like Nintendo have recognized this, which is why there is a wii virtual console etc. Microsoft however don't seem to give a dam, despite the fact that windows has probably the largest proportion of independent game developers for any operating system. If including dependencies in windows isn't possible, why couldn't microsoft create a package, something like a windows orientated dosbox with 16 bit dependencies and vb registrations, expressly for running older games on newer windows. microsoft however don't care about either the players of indi produced games, or the various indi developers who've worked on them, which is why an open source alternative like dosbox was needed. However this wouldn't be necessary if microsoft gave a dam, but just like with the ribbon controls, microsoft just seem to expect people to upgrade because something is newer. i'm afraid for myself, and indeed for probably a lot of other computer users, my Pc is of value only based upon what I can do with it, not based upon whether it has the latest technology or flashy displays, - indeed I've never bothered upgrading my microsoft word, sinse ms word 2007 which this machine comes with serves me perfectly well. One of those things is play old games. Were my snes to actually break, there would be an alternative, namely buying a wii (though sadly it wouldn't work well for me due to access to the silly wii mote menues), however were my xp machine to break, and were vb support dropped, i'd be saying goodbye to lots of games. I suppose eventually some open source alternative to vb support will appear, maybe a virtual machine option, but how useable that would be for the average skilled user, and how accessible it would be I don't know. Dosbox is afterall completely inaccessible, and the only dosbox applications I have are ones that have been configured to run as windows programs like the Prince of persia totalpack. Already the Eamon games are unplayable on windows 7 machines without running an apple emulator, which means they are inaccessible as well, I wonder how long it will be before all the games we have now that use vb will go the same way. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Tom. My problem with the start menue generally in 7, and indeed most of the interface, is that it all works contextually. For the past 12 or so years, I've learnt my way around the insides of windows by looking at what things are where, and putting things in places that I can easily find myself again. For instance, my documents I've always used for documents, and for music have a music folder instead. The idea of having music insides the documents folder is less than logical to me. I then have start menue icons grouped by use and developer. I have one folder for audio games, with sub folders for gma, usa games, spoonbill etc, one for text games with if interpreters and the like, one for freeware graphical games, one for generally useful programs such as avg etc. This way I can A, find stuff more easily, but also know exactly what I've got just as easily as if I were to read the braille lables on my snes cartridges. This is why i don't like the context sensative stuff, especially sinse it's usually based on last used. if I get a hankering to play shades of doom, it doesn't matter if I've not played it for a while, indeed say I've finished playing q9, I don't want that on the top of the menue. i suppose I just like being in personal control of where things are rather than leaving it to a computer filing system which might not be as I like it, much less be reliant upon a search box and auto complete features. As it turns out, you can create folders in the start menue of windows 7, so I'll probably just try and get as close to my current setup as humanly possible. it's not really a case of liking the xp interface, for me, it's more a case of liking an interface that I can have some measure of control over. In windows 7, that control is reduced, hence my dislike for the system, indeed I'm not looking forward to having to cope with windows explorer in 7 at all, sinse once again that has far more options than I need. Again, this seems a case where microsoft have unilaterally decided what is best for everyone to have without any considderation that people may want something different. Beware the grue! Dark. - O --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
So if this is the reason we all love windows, why don't microsoft considder keeping it so? Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf yep, and its exactly because of the backwards compatibility that we all love windows. you can run anything, on nearly anything. yes, thats changing, but it has to, at some point. dallas On 12/12/2011 08:44, Alex Kenny wrote: Hi, Actually, Microsoft goes to great lengths to ensure backward-compatibility, much more than many other tech companies. If Microsoft behaved like Apple, i can garuntee that you would not be able to run VB games on modern machines, because MS would have removed support from their OS as soon as they decided to stop supporting it. Take the Windows API, for example. It's been around since 1985, and in order to ensure compatibility, MS just continued to add functionality and hacks. Because of this, the API has become extremely bloated with some redundant functions and annoying limitations. In Windows 8, they've created a whole new API, but are still supporting the old Windows API, despite the fact that it probably adds incredible bloat and increases the complexity of the OS. Because of this, I have to disagree with you that MS doesn't care about backward-compatibility. They have many, many faults, but that's not one of them. There comes a time when backward-compatibility must be broken to allow for improvement. We had to say goodbye to the DOS command prompt, Windows 9X and 16-bit software. We will probably be saying goodbye to VB support as well. Of course, if Windows 8 is the last to support VB, you'll still have lots of time to upgrade, as Microsoft supports its operating systems for quite a while. On 12/11/11, darkd...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Alex. As I said I'm not annoyed that Microsoft update their os, they have to, even if we don't like some of their decisions on interfaces etc. it just seems though that they don't give a dam about running older programs, games or anything else, they just claime newer = better it seems without actually considdering what people want their computers for, namely to run programs. comador didn't do this with their os or machines, even with compltely new hardware, going from amigar 500 to 1200. Even the big console developers are realizing that people like running their old games, hence the wii virtual consoles, virtual arcade and other such software versions of older games stil available on modern machines. Microsoft though just seem to expect everyone to update, buy their products and cope, because newer is always better in their opinion. for myself, if i could be certain all my games and other applications would work under windows 7, I'd be much less wary about updating. I just see this as a case of not listening to the customer and doing their own dam thing and expecting everyone to cope simply because they are a big fat company who just care about the prophit. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
hMMMHmmm dallas, that's more than I've heard as yet. I thought windows 8 stil had them, though I might be wrong. If so, I'm glad and hope microsoft go back to something more logical. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
because holding backwards compatibilyt for to long makes things unstable. and besides, the newer codes can do more, and take less power out of the system anyway. dallas On 12/12/2011 22:24, dark wrote: So if this is the reason we all love windows, why don't microsoft considder keeping it so? Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf yep, and its exactly because of the backwards compatibility that we all love windows. you can run anything, on nearly anything. yes, thats changing, but it has to, at some point. dallas On 12/12/2011 08:44, Alex Kenny wrote: Hi, Actually, Microsoft goes to great lengths to ensure backward-compatibility, much more than many other tech companies. If Microsoft behaved like Apple, i can garuntee that you would not be able to run VB games on modern machines, because MS would have removed support from their OS as soon as they decided to stop supporting it. Take the Windows API, for example. It's been around since 1985, and in order to ensure compatibility, MS just continued to add functionality and hacks. Because of this, the API has become extremely bloated with some redundant functions and annoying limitations. In Windows 8, they've created a whole new API, but are still supporting the old Windows API, despite the fact that it probably adds incredible bloat and increases the complexity of the OS. Because of this, I have to disagree with you that MS doesn't care about backward-compatibility. They have many, many faults, but that's not one of them. There comes a time when backward-compatibility must be broken to allow for improvement. We had to say goodbye to the DOS command prompt, Windows 9X and 16-bit software. We will probably be saying goodbye to VB support as well. Of course, if Windows 8 is the last to support VB, you'll still have lots of time to upgrade, as Microsoft supports its operating systems for quite a while. On 12/11/11, darkd...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Alex. As I said I'm not annoyed that Microsoft update their os, they have to, even if we don't like some of their decisions on interfaces etc. it just seems though that they don't give a dam about running older programs, games or anything else, they just claime newer = better it seems without actually considdering what people want their computers for, namely to run programs. comador didn't do this with their os or machines, even with compltely new hardware, going from amigar 500 to 1200. Even the big console developers are realizing that people like running their old games, hence the wii virtual consoles, virtual arcade and other such software versions of older games stil available on modern machines. Microsoft though just seem to expect everyone to update, buy their products and cope, because newer is always better in their opinion. for myself, if i could be certain all my games and other applications would work under windows 7, I'd be much less wary about updating. I just see this as a case of not listening to the customer and doing their own dam thing and expecting everyone to cope simply because they are a big fat company who just care about the prophit. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
yeah, they are getting rid of them, cause people really don't like them. so yes, they do listen. but removing something sometimes is harder then putting it in, without messing something up. so its taken them a bit. dallas On 12/12/2011 22:29, dark wrote: hMMMHmmm dallas, that's more than I've heard as yet. I thought windows 8 stil had them, though I might be wrong. If so, I'm glad and hope microsoft go back to something more logical. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi dark, For the problem you mention with windows 7 start menu, there is a good solution: there is a small program called classic start menu. You will easily find it on google. This program is very light, and replace the crappy mmixed up windows 7 start menu with a classic start menu like W98 or XP. I use it allmost since I switched to W7, because original start menu of windows 7 annoyed me as well. In fact the only nice thing in the W7 start menu is the search field, all the rest is crap. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Well if you don't let how it rearranges things. Go into the setting and change it. They call that customizing. I do it for ever op I use. known of my ops look or feel like basic. If more people went in the setting and tweaked what they need. Half of the questions asked how to do this.. Would not even come around. People there are things such as menus, help and documents telling how to do these customizes. At 07:23 AM 12/12/2011, you wrote: Hi Tom. My problem with the start menue generally in 7, and indeed most of the interface, is that it all works contextually. For the past 12 or so years, I've learnt my way around the insides of windows by looking at what things are where, and putting things in places that I can easily find myself again. For instance, my documents I've always used for documents, and for music have a music folder instead. The idea of having music insides the documents folder is less than logical to me. I then have start menue icons grouped by use and developer. I have one folder for audio games, with sub folders for gma, usa games, spoonbill etc, one for text games with if interpreters and the like, one for freeware graphical games, one for generally useful programs such as avg etc. This way I can A, find stuff more easily, but also know exactly what I've got just as easily as if I were to read the braille lables on my snes cartridges. This is why i don't like the context sensative stuff, especially sinse it's usually based on last used. if I get a hankering to play shades of doom, it doesn't matter if I've not played it for a while, indeed say I've finished playing q9, I don't want that on the top of the menue. i suppose I just like being in personal control of where things are rather than leaving it to a computer filing system which might not be as I like it, much less be reliant upon a search box and auto complete features. As it turns out, you can create folders in the start menue of windows 7, so I'll probably just try and get as close to my current setup as humanly possible. it's not really a case of liking the xp interface, for me, it's more a case of liking an interface that I can have some measure of control over. In windows 7, that control is reduced, hence my dislike for the system, indeed I'm not looking forward to having to cope with windows explorer in 7 at all, sinse once again that has far more options than I need. Again, this seems a case where microsoft have unilaterally decided what is best for everyone to have without any considderation that people may want something different. Beware the grue! Dark. - O --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Frankly dallas where games are concerned, I couldn't give a monkies how good the newer codes are. As I said, I don't really care about how powerful or anything else a system is, I care about what I can do with it. That's why i stil have a snes, sinse I can play all the game i rather like on it, despite it being no where near up to the standard of todays games' consoles. As I said, I just would like microsoft to acknolidge this, perhaps with a compatibility pack option that could be downloaded for those who needed it. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Thanks quentin, It's good to know that someone! in the open source community has thought the same and won't accept what microsoft give out. Certainly when I do have to get windows 7 I'll have a look for that program. i've heard of classic shell before, but I don't think that covers the start menue. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: QuentinC quent...@cfardel.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark, For the problem you mention with windows 7 start menu, there is a good solution: there is a small program called classic start menu. You will easily find it on google. This program is very light, and replace the crappy mmixed up windows 7 start menu with a classic start menu like W98 or XP. I use it allmost since I switched to W7, because original start menu of windows 7 annoyed me as well. In fact the only nice thing in the W7 start menu is the search field, all the rest is crap. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
actually, the better codes, = better gaming possibilities. so yes, it makes a different. dallas On 12/12/2011 23:13, dark wrote: Frankly dallas where games are concerned, I couldn't give a monkies how good the newer codes are. As I said, I don't really care about how powerful or anything else a system is, I care about what I can do with it. That's why i stil have a snes, sinse I can play all the game i rather like on it, despite it being no where near up to the standard of todays games' consoles. As I said, I just would like microsoft to acknolidge this, perhaps with a compatibility pack option that could be downloaded for those who needed it. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Like how you put the below. Now if you could get those useless brick heads at freedom Scientific to do the same with rebuilt jaws, and not just slip the new code into the old junk. Even there scripts need a total rework. There are scripts used for program that have not changed sense written and don't even work with the program now or do it very sluggishly. Talk about bloat ware. At 11:54 PM 12/11/2011, you wrote: Hi Dark, I certainly understand why you feel the way you do about Windows compatibility issues--I'm certain most end users are likely to see things your way--but because you aren't a software developer you aren't seeing the other side of the issue. Which is simply this. First, Microsoft has a long history of maintaining backwards compatibility with older software applications and APIs long after they have passed out of mainstream use. For example, up until 1995 most processors ran on a 16-bit architecture. However, Intel's Pentium processor introduced the 32-bit architecture to the PC market and Windows 95 was the very first Windows version to support the 32-bit architecture.Microsoft could have done away with 16-bit compatibility ages ago, but the 32-bit version of Windows 7 still has 16-bit MS Dos backwards compatibility support. Its only the 64-bit version of Windows 7 that no longer has 16-bit application support, and Microsoft has plenty of good reasons to drop 16-bit support. Not the least of which is when does Microsoft reach a cut off point, say that's it, and focus their time and money supporting newer technologies? Another example is Microsoft's DirectSound API. Keep in mind that the technology was written in 1995, for PCs running Windows 95, and was written completely for a different era of hardware. Microsoft patched and maintained the API for as long as they could, but by 2005 there was so many changes in hardware it required a complete rewrite from scratch. That's when they began writing XAudio and XAudio2 which have essentially replaced DirectSound on Windows Vista and Windows 7, and offers a lot of new features that weren't available in DirectSound. Even though XAudio2 is technically the current API for audio programming on Windows. Fact of the matter is Windows Vista, Win 7, and Win 8 all come preinstalled with DirectSound 8 libraries for backwards compatibility support even though the API is considered to be deprecated. So contrary to your assertions Microsoft does try to maintain a reasonable amount of backwards compatibility support as long as its necessary and reasonable to do so. Second, is stability and other technical concerns. In order to upgrade and add new features to an operating system like Windows there usually has to be changes in the underlying APIs that can and very well may break compatibility with older software that rely on the API working exactly as it did in prior versions. This is very problematic for software developers, because they have to choose one of two methods for handling this problem. The method Microsoft has consistently chosen time and time again with their APIs is to branch or fork the API when and where possible. That's because there are sometimes changes that will break compatibility with older software and instead of choosing to break compatibility they allow two different versions of the library or API to be installed side by side with each other like we see with Microsoft's .NET Framework. While this certainly helps maintain compatibility for the long hall it gets to be confusing for developers, technical support, and of course end users who don't know the difference between one version of the API or library from another. The problem with forking an API and attempting to maintain backwards compatibility this way is that it becomes extremely bloated and successive upgrades only makes the problem worse. With Windows Vista everyone complained of poor system performance, massive slow down, and instability problems. Microsoft largely resolved these problems in Windows 7 by removing thousands of lines of code from the operating system, and by removing various libraries they felt that were no longer needed. As a result Windows 7 is both more stable and runs much more reliably than Windows Vista. It was a matter of necessity regardless of the cost to backwards compatibility. If Microsoft hadn't taken this necessary step and kept all that old code around Windows 7 would likely be as slow and unstable as Vista, because a software developer can't continue to add layer after layer of code indefinitely without degrading performance and stability. Sooner or later it becomes a necessity to clean house, and get rid of everything that isn't of primary importance. Finally, while I agree not everything Microsoft does like menu ribbons, changing the start menu, and various other changes aren't strictly necessary its usually a result of trying to be competitive. Microsoft now has to worry about competing with Apple's Mac OS operating system,
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
They did that option and called it vista! Now if you don't have max ram and high CPU it runs like a brick! Remove the old outdated junk and you got win7 or even 8. At 08:13 AM 12/12/2011, you wrote: Frankly dallas where games are concerned, I couldn't give a monkies how good the newer codes are. As I said, I don't really care about how powerful or anything else a system is, I care about what I can do with it. That's why i stil have a snes, sinse I can play all the game i rather like on it, despite it being no where near up to the standard of todays games' consoles. As I said, I just would like microsoft to acknolidge this, perhaps with a compatibility pack option that could be downloaded for those who needed it. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi dark. Microsoft only invests development time where they stand to gain or lose money. For the most part, even dropping support for vb was based on the fact that they were forcing developers to switch to vb.net so they could sell them a new set of development tools. The basic programming syntax stayed the same, but they changed the developement libraries to not be the same as those used with vb6. They did improve the software with vb.net, but vb6 wasn't making them enough money to justify fixing the security wholes and bugs for vb6. Assisting developers or users of code to run a 10 year old program does not gain them much sales, so they will invest the development time somewhere else. This is also part of what drives the changes to the user interfaces. They tell their customers see it looks different, so it is new where as most of the code is reused over windows versions. I agree with those who said that for innovation to happen we need change, but change does not always indicate something better. On 12/12/11, Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com wrote: actually, the better codes, = better gaming possibilities. so yes, it makes a different. dallas On 12/12/2011 23:13, dark wrote: Frankly dallas where games are concerned, I couldn't give a monkies how good the newer codes are. As I said, I don't really care about how powerful or anything else a system is, I care about what I can do with it. That's why i stil have a snes, sinse I can play all the game i rather like on it, despite it being no where near up to the standard of todays games' consoles. As I said, I just would like microsoft to acknolidge this, perhaps with a compatibility pack option that could be downloaded for those who needed it. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi. It's easy to turn off the most recently used programs from displaying in the start menu, just as it is easy to turn that off in windows xp without needing to switch it to the classic start menu which I don't like by the way. I like xp's default start menu with the most recent programs list turned off much more than the classic start menu that looks like windows 98. Also I like that win7's start menu is a tree view that's a little easier to find things in even without using the search box. If you want something in programs just go to the start menu, up arrow out of the edit box, right arrow to programs, up arrow again to get out of the search box that you'll land on in there, and type a few letter of what you want, like gm for GMA tank commander or you could type aud hit right arrow type gm right arrow type ta for tank commander right arrow type pl for play though I believe you'd already be on play so you might get unexpected results in that particular case. What I don't like about 7's start menu is that once you open something, you can't close it without first arrowing up to the actual item you're inside, so if you're in the GMA folder you have to arrow up to where it says GMA expanded and then hit left arrow to close it. That's pretty annoying when you're used to hitting left arrow a bunch of times indiscriminately like I do in thunderbird to close what you've expanded your way out onto. Sent with Thunderbird 3.1.16 portable. On 12/12/2011 8:17 AM, dark wrote: Thanks quentin, It's good to know that someone! in the open source community has thought the same and won't accept what microsoft give out. Certainly when I do have to get windows 7 I'll have a look for that program. i've heard of classic shell before, but I don't think that covers the start menue. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: QuentinC quent...@cfardel.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark, For the problem you mention with windows 7 start menu, there is a good solution: there is a small program called classic start menu. You will easily find it on google. This program is very light, and replace the crappy mmixed up windows 7 start menu with a classic start menu like W98 or XP. I use it allmost since I switched to W7, because original start menu of windows 7 annoyed me as well. In fact the only nice thing in the W7 start menu is the search field, all the rest is crap. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
I'm not sure how much that applies to indi devs there dallas, sinse most indi devs don't have the huge amounts of cash necessary for massive graphics or sound, that the new code likely supports if it's intended to make games of todays' 3D standard. pluss as I said, it doesn't solve the problem for those who either like or play older style games. Rocks n diamonds is a graphical puzle game developed in 1995. It's been updated sinse then and in fact is stil maintained. It's got ports for Ios, Unix, Dos, Windows and even amigar os (though that port isn't maintained). As far as I can tell, all windows 7 is going to do for rnd is require compatibility rewrites, which the developer has already made. And yet rnd is one of the major indi developement projects, it's even got a wikipedia entry (the developer has already been very nice about low vision and other access changes too). Beware the grue! DArk. - Original Message - From: Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf actually, the better codes, = better gaming possibilities. so yes, it makes a different. dallas On 12/12/2011 23:13, dark wrote: Frankly dallas where games are concerned, I couldn't give a monkies how good the newer codes are. As I said, I don't really care about how powerful or anything else a system is, I care about what I can do with it. That's why i stil have a snes, sinse I can play all the game i rather like on it, despite it being no where near up to the standard of todays games' consoles. As I said, I just would like microsoft to acknolidge this, perhaps with a compatibility pack option that could be downloaded for those who needed it. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Agreed William, this is just what I mean. As far as I've ever found out microsoft is frankly just concerned with their bank balance and don't give a dam about their customers accept as a statistic. And lets not get on to their production methods, what they pay the people who actually assemmble! pc parts or the like. The only reason I use windows is for convenience sinse most things run on it, which is I suspect why ninety percent of people do, not necessarily because I actually like microsoft at all. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark. Microsoft only invests development time where they stand to gain or lose money. For the most part, even dropping support for vb was based on the fact that they were forcing developers to switch to vb.net so they could sell them a new set of development tools. The basic programming syntax stayed the same, but they changed the developement libraries to not be the same as those used with vb6. They did improve the software with vb.net, but vb6 wasn't making them enough money to justify fixing the security wholes and bugs for vb6. Assisting developers or users of code to run a 10 year old program does not gain them much sales, so they will invest the development time somewhere else. This is also part of what drives the changes to the user interfaces. They tell their customers see it looks different, so it is new where as most of the code is reused over windows versions. I agree with those who said that for innovation to happen we need change, but change does not always indicate something better. On 12/12/11, Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com wrote: actually, the better codes, = better gaming possibilities. so yes, it makes a different. dallas On 12/12/2011 23:13, dark wrote: Frankly dallas where games are concerned, I couldn't give a monkies how good the newer codes are. As I said, I don't really care about how powerful or anything else a system is, I care about what I can do with it. That's why i stil have a snes, sinse I can play all the game i rather like on it, despite it being no where near up to the standard of todays games' consoles. As I said, I just would like microsoft to acknolidge this, perhaps with a compatibility pack option that could be downloaded for those who needed it. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
As I said valliant, I just don't like relying on a search box, I prefer to physically go and put things in different places. Also, the expanded thing was irritating in the explorer for windows 7, I personally prefer just hitting enter on a folder to see what's inside it, though again this is just microsoft altering the Ui and telling people it's different. I'll probably get that program quentin mentioned. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Valiant8086 valiant8...@lavabit.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi. It's easy to turn off the most recently used programs from displaying in the start menu, just as it is easy to turn that off in windows xp without needing to switch it to the classic start menu which I don't like by the way. I like xp's default start menu with the most recent programs list turned off much more than the classic start menu that looks like windows 98. Also I like that win7's start menu is a tree view that's a little easier to find things in even without using the search box. If you want something in programs just go to the start menu, up arrow out of the edit box, right arrow to programs, up arrow again to get out of the search box that you'll land on in there, and type a few letter of what you want, like gm for GMA tank commander or you could type aud hit right arrow type gm right arrow type ta for tank commander right arrow type pl for play though I believe you'd already be on play so you might get unexpected results in that particular case. What I don't like about 7's start menu is that once you open something, you can't close it without first arrowing up to the actual item you're inside, so if you're in the GMA folder you have to arrow up to where it says GMA expanded and then hit left arrow to close it. That's pretty annoying when you're used to hitting left arrow a bunch of times indiscriminately like I do in thunderbird to close what you've expanded your way out onto. Sent with Thunderbird 3.1.16 portable. On 12/12/2011 8:17 AM, dark wrote: Thanks quentin, It's good to know that someone! in the open source community has thought the same and won't accept what microsoft give out. Certainly when I do have to get windows 7 I'll have a look for that program. i've heard of classic shell before, but I don't think that covers the start menue. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: QuentinC quent...@cfardel.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark, For the problem you mention with windows 7 start menu, there is a good solution: there is a small program called classic start menu. You will easily find it on google. This program is very light, and replace the crappy mmixed up windows 7 start menu with a classic start menu like W98 or XP. I use it allmost since I switched to W7, because original start menu of windows 7 annoyed me as well. In fact the only nice thing in the W7 start menu is the search field, all the rest is crap. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Folks, David Greenwood just answered a question about what will be in Lone Wolf 4. From David: My plans have exceeded that original document, which was primarily all the new parser commands, and if you remember, there is a whole bunch. This is great for developing more complex missions, and building general capabilities into the game. For example, there would be no reason you could not develop long distance cruise missiles, sea to air missiles, sea to sea missiles, and so on. Other than that, it will include: 1. Surround sound, 2. Multi-user play, 3. improved sounds, 4. A better computer AI. 5. Support for most, if not all screen readers, along with MS Sapi support. This is not an exhaustive list, just what I can think of at the moment, but as usual there will be a beta team, for better or worse, who's job it is to make my life hell. Regards, David Greenwood, davidgreenw...@gmagames.com http://www.GMAGames.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi. You can still go and put things in different places. I do myself. But you really don't have to use anything but the search box most of the time. Even I could admit when I first tried Vista that even though I was absolutely fantastic with the xp start menu hitting p for programs then g for games then g for GMA then t for tank commander, etc, it really is nice to just type tank and then hit enter. isn't that just slightly easier? I'm not trying to get in a disagreement with you since we have similar views on this subject, it's just that have you really tried out that search box? It's absolutely one of my favorite things about win7 and it really does make launching programs that you have in the start menu easier than before. I just wish I could figure out how to add other folders that I create in my user profile to the list of possible results. I mean, I didn't like vista, and at first while I might have been willing to admit that win7 fixed most of the performance problems I just thought everything was actually harder to do than ever before. You could get me on a role just complaining how it was actually taking a lot more steps to get to what you wanted when MS claimed the whole OS was laid out to require less clicks to get to what you wanted. Well it was, I was absolutely right. That is, I was until I started finally figuring out that there were new ways of getting to that stuff that I didn't know about. Like for instance connecting to WiFi networks is so much easier in 7 than in xp it isn't even funny. Windows b, arrow to the network icon, hit enter, down arrow to the network you want and hit enter on that. Hit enter again on the connect button and you'll also notice that Win7 establishes a WiFi connection in a serious hurry. It's so much faster than xp ever thought of connecting to a WiFi network. I don't know what they did but wow. Take the mobility center. That thing is my dream. Windows x brings up a dialogue letting you actually adjust the screen brightness, change the power plan in a simple list box, adjust the volume, turn off your WiFi, in my case turn off hp 3d drive guard, connect or disconnect an external display, etc all in a simple dialogue that I can tab around and use my arrows to adjust. Now that's what I call nifty. Take the task bar dock thingy. I have all my screen readers pinned to it and internet explorer 9, and I believe my email client is pinned there somewhere though not sure about that. Now let's say I want to launch monkey term. It's the 5the item on that thing. So I just hit windows 5. That fires up mt right away and focuses it. I now want to research something on the web so windows 1 for internet explorer. Up it comes and because I use about blank for my homepage I land right in the address box to type where I want to go. So I load up a page and someone wants my attention on Alter Aeon so I want Monkey Term to focus again. Instead of alt+tabbing because you bet I'll have to alt+tab 5 or 6 times to get to it I'll just windows 5 again to immediately bring it into focus, without launching a new copy. Tell me that isn't awesome! By the way, that classic shell thing is nice. It's even better because when it's installed it doesn't actually replace your start menu that windows uses. It makes another one that you press a different key to bring up. The one I had also modified windows explorer and I think it can modify IE9 to put the status bar back on it. Anyway, I seriously loved xp, and I still do but I got to say, Win7 has allowed me to get off xp. I'm ok using 7 and I really miss some of the things I just mentioned when I get on an xp computer. And you know what? Win 7 home basic, I wouldn't recommend starter, really runs on lousy hardware ok. That Umid MBook SE I keep talking about I put home basic on it. It runs it fairly well. It doesn't even run more processes than windows xp does in the task manager. Of course, if It hadn't been a Korean computer and if it had come with 7 home basic already installed you bet it would have a bunch of crap installed on it that would have made it look bad. I mean, I can run win7 in something that fits in my pocket! Lol. Sent with Thunderbird 3.1.16 portable. On 12/12/2011 9:39 AM, dark wrote: As I said valliant, I just don't like relying on a search box, I prefer to physically go and put things in different places. Also, the expanded thing was irritating in the explorer for windows 7, I personally prefer just hitting enter on a folder to see what's inside it, though again this is just microsoft altering the Ui and telling people it's different. I'll probably get that program quentin mentioned. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Valiant8086 valiant8...@lavabit.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi. It's easy to turn off the most
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
To drag this thread back on topic, I've posted an inquiry to the GMA list asking David for a list of feature changes and new features in LW 4. The biggest thing I remember is a major overhaul of the mission writing part of the game to add much more intelligence to the enemy and friendly ships. But in any case, when he has answered, we will be able to put an end to the speculative postings on this topic and have a discussion based on actual information, rather than the scattered things that some of us remember from years back. Chris Bartlett -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 9:40 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf As I said valliant, I just don't like relying on a search box, I prefer to physically go and put things in different places. Also, the expanded thing was irritating in the explorer for windows 7, I personally prefer just hitting enter on a folder to see what's inside it, though again this is just microsoft altering the Ui and telling people it's different. I'll probably get that program quentin mentioned. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Valiant8086 valiant8...@lavabit.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi. It's easy to turn off the most recently used programs from displaying in the start menu, just as it is easy to turn that off in windows xp without needing to switch it to the classic start menu which I don't like by the way. I like xp's default start menu with the most recent programs list turned off much more than the classic start menu that looks like windows 98. Also I like that win7's start menu is a tree view that's a little easier to find things in even without using the search box. If you want something in programs just go to the start menu, up arrow out of the edit box, right arrow to programs, up arrow again to get out of the search box that you'll land on in there, and type a few letter of what you want, like gm for GMA tank commander or you could type aud hit right arrow type gm right arrow type ta for tank commander right arrow type pl for play though I believe you'd already be on play so you might get unexpected results in that particular case. What I don't like about 7's start menu is that once you open something, you can't close it without first arrowing up to the actual item you're inside, so if you're in the GMA folder you have to arrow up to where it says GMA expanded and then hit left arrow to close it. That's pretty annoying when you're used to hitting left arrow a bunch of times indiscriminately like I do in thunderbird to close what you've expanded your way out onto. Sent with Thunderbird 3.1.16 portable. On 12/12/2011 8:17 AM, dark wrote: Thanks quentin, It's good to know that someone! in the open source community has thought the same and won't accept what microsoft give out. Certainly when I do have to get windows 7 I'll have a look for that program. i've heard of classic shell before, but I don't think that covers the start menue. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: QuentinC quent...@cfardel.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark, For the problem you mention with windows 7 start menu, there is a good solution: there is a small program called classic start menu. You will easily find it on google. This program is very light, and replace the crappy mmixed up windows 7 start menu with a classic start menu like W98 or XP. I use it allmost since I switched to W7, because original start menu of windows 7 annoyed me as well. In fact the only nice thing in the W7 start menu is the search field, all the rest is crap. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
If the ribbons are going to be removed, and if the traditional menus that are accessible to everyone return, that feature alone might make me want to switch. --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. - Original Message - From: Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 6:14 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf actually, your info is rong here. the rybons are beeing removed, because they have taken on the feedback that they aren't liked. dallas On 12/12/2011 22:04, dark wrote: Hi Tom. I do generally appreciate the point that better applications for doing tasks like brousing the internet or text editing exist, - certainly I wouldn't go back to using the old word perfect 4 which i learnt typing on as a teenager. However with microsoft it seems quite often they just dump things on people with no chance to change and expect the general public to just go along with it. Take ribbon controls. Back after the change from 95 to xp there was a classic mode, which made elements of the xp ui resemble earlier versions of windows. Do we see this in windows 7 or 8? heck no! Many fully sighted users hate ribbons and the windows arrow, finding them needlessly confusing, yet does microsoft care? no! As far as compatibility goes, the case for games seems very different from the case for other software. Each game is to a lesser or greater extent unique, indeed each game may be considdered an art form to the extent that it is! unique. Companies like Nintendo have recognized this, which is why there is a wii virtual console etc. Microsoft however don't seem to give a dam, despite the fact that windows has probably the largest proportion of independent game developers for any operating system. If including dependencies in windows isn't possible, why couldn't microsoft create a package, something like a windows orientated dosbox with 16 bit dependencies and vb registrations, expressly for running older games on newer windows. microsoft however don't care about either the players of indi produced games, or the various indi developers who've worked on them, which is why an open source alternative like dosbox was needed. However this wouldn't be necessary if microsoft gave a dam, but just like with the ribbon controls, microsoft just seem to expect people to upgrade because something is newer. i'm afraid for myself, and indeed for probably a lot of other computer users, my Pc is of value only based upon what I can do with it, not based upon whether it has the latest technology or flashy displays, - indeed I've never bothered upgrading my microsoft word, sinse ms word 2007 which this machine comes with serves me perfectly well. One of those things is play old games. Were my snes to actually break, there would be an alternative, namely buying a wii (though sadly it wouldn't work well for me due to access to the silly wii mote menues), however were my xp machine to break, and were vb support dropped, i'd be saying goodbye to lots of games. I suppose eventually some open source alternative to vb support will appear, maybe a virtual machine option, but how useable that would be for the average skilled user, and how accessible it would be I don't know. Dosbox is afterall completely inaccessible, and the only dosbox applications I have are ones that have been configured to run as windows programs like the Prince of persia totalpack. Already the Eamon games are unplayable on windows 7 machines without running an apple emulator, which means they are inaccessible as well, I wonder how long it will be before all the games we have now that use vb will go the same way. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Thomas, I don't want to judge anyone. But there is a difference here. Fine if MS wants to remove VB 6 support. It is a developer's job to do something about a programs compatibility. But what should someone do as an end user? It is not my fault if a program screams about missing DLLs... OK, I can download the VB 6 runtime if I need to run a VB 6 file. But isn't part of current DirectX end user license specifically forbidding you to manually install DX7VB.DLL or DX8VB.DLL into your current operating systems and/or their DirectX (DX 10 or DX 11)? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Yea... But what do you do about the classic games? Surely, there are still many people in the world who want to use the old games. But running an outdated operating system like Windows 95 or older on modern PCs isn't an option when the os doesn't get along with your hardware due to a lack of drivers... And you might want to use a virtual machine, but then is the question where to get that old operating system you need legally. Good if you still have installation media, but what if not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Dark, Again, I really think you're misrepresenting Microsoft here. Microsoft actually spends a huge amount of resources supporting older products. For example, one of the reasons Windows Vista was delayed as much as it was is because MS temporarily stopped its development in order to fix major security problems with Windows XP. If MS really behaved as you described, they would have just released Vista two years early and dropped XP. Instead, they've actually extended XP's support to 2014, ecause they understand that it's very popular. Of course, by then, XP will be 13 years old. Imagine running Windows 98 today. It wouldn't be a very pleasant experience. Technology moves on, and we need to at some point move along with it. If that's a problem, there are a few DOS operating systems that have been in development for several decades. Since unlike Windows, DOS operating systems are very simple, you shouldn't have too many bugs to worry about... I'm exaggerating here of course, but if that's the attitude most people had, we'd still be using teletype machines and command prompts. On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Agreed William, this is just what I mean. As far as I've ever found out microsoft is frankly just concerned with their bank balance and don't give a dam about their customers accept as a statistic. And lets not get on to their production methods, what they pay the people who actually assemmble! pc parts or the like. The only reason I use windows is for convenience sinse most things run on it, which is I suspect why ninety percent of people do, not necessarily because I actually like microsoft at all. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark. Microsoft only invests development time where they stand to gain or lose money. For the most part, even dropping support for vb was based on the fact that they were forcing developers to switch to vb.net so they could sell them a new set of development tools. The basic programming syntax stayed the same, but they changed the developement libraries to not be the same as those used with vb6. They did improve the software with vb.net, but vb6 wasn't making them enough money to justify fixing the security wholes and bugs for vb6. Assisting developers or users of code to run a 10 year old program does not gain them much sales, so they will invest the development time somewhere else. This is also part of what drives the changes to the user interfaces. They tell their customers see it looks different, so it is new where as most of the code is reused over windows versions. I agree with those who said that for innovation to happen we need change, but change does not always indicate something better. On 12/12/11, Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com wrote: actually, the better codes, = better gaming possibilities. so yes, it makes a different. dallas On 12/12/2011 23:13, dark wrote: Frankly dallas where games are concerned, I couldn't give a monkies how good the newer codes are. As I said, I don't really care about how powerful or anything else a system is, I care about what I can do with it. That's why i stil have a snes, sinse I can play all the game i rather like on it, despite it being no where near up to the standard of todays games' consoles. As I said, I just would like microsoft to acknolidge this, perhaps with a compatibility pack option that could be downloaded for those who needed it. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Phil. Good to know, especially the extra sounds and the thought of modifying weaponry to let you have different eras of submarine warfare in the game. Do you know if David has plans to allow the game to have missions with tripple didgits? I know there are 92 missions currently, but I thought there were more, however you need to swap folders sinse lw stops counting at 99. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Folks, David Greenwood just answered a question about what will be in Lone Wolf 4. From David: My plans have exceeded that original document, which was primarily all the new parser commands, and if you remember, there is a whole bunch. This is great for developing more complex missions, and building general capabilities into the game. For example, there would be no reason you could not develop long distance cruise missiles, sea to air missiles, sea to sea missiles, and so on. Other than that, it will include: 1. Surround sound, 2. Multi-user play, 3. improved sounds, 4. A better computer AI. 5. Support for most, if not all screen readers, along with MS Sapi support. This is not an exhaustive list, just what I can think of at the moment, but as usual there will be a beta team, for better or worse, who's job it is to make my life hell. Regards, David Greenwood, davidgreenw...@gmagames.com http://www.GMAGames.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Valiant. In fairness I have only tried windows 7 on someone else's system not my own, so haven't had chance to deal with the search box. As I said though, for me it's really because I'd rather see where things are and physically go and pick them up and put down, rather than trust an automated system. Speed is less concern, though actually pressing p g g and down arrow is not that many less key presses than typing the word tank then arrowing through results either. Then of course there are many times I want to choose. For example, last time I ws on the train, i wanted a relatively quick game to play, and one that didn't have overbearing sounds. So I go into my audio games folder, look for a developer, and found spoonbill, but which game do I feel like? This is far nicer to do with a list rather than a search box. It's certainly a feature I'll try out when I get windows 7, but currently with the setup I use and my preferences for doing things i'm not sure whether it'd sute me or not. As to wifi networks, I'm slightly confused sinse the method you describe is exactly what I do on xp. Network connections in start menue, wireless network connections, enter once then you've got the list of available networks in range that you can just hit enter and connect on. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Alex. But if microsoft care so much about customers, why don't they have any options to extend backwards compatibility of products? for instance a licenced microsoft virtual machine? Frankly, the reason they had to extend xp support is simply because vista was buggy as heck for several years and thus new xp machines were being bought as late as 2010. If microsoft had dropped support for what the majority of users use, people would go over to mac or other os and they'd lose sales. I don't really understand this business about technology moves move with it I repeat, I have my snes, which is now close to 20 years old. I keep it because I like the games on it. The fact that something is new technology has no real applicability to myself or probably to several other people as well if it doesn't actually let us do the things we want. A computer is afterall just a tool. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Dark, Again, I really think you're misrepresenting Microsoft here. Microsoft actually spends a huge amount of resources supporting older products. For example, one of the reasons Windows Vista was delayed as much as it was is because MS temporarily stopped its development in order to fix major security problems with Windows XP. If MS really behaved as you described, they would have just released Vista two years early and dropped XP. Instead, they've actually extended XP's support to 2014, ecause they understand that it's very popular. Of course, by then, XP will be 13 years old. Imagine running Windows 98 today. It wouldn't be a very pleasant experience. Technology moves on, and we need to at some point move along with it. If that's a problem, there are a few DOS operating systems that have been in development for several decades. Since unlike Windows, DOS operating systems are very simple, you shouldn't have too many bugs to worry about... I'm exaggerating here of course, but if that's the attitude most people had, we'd still be using teletype machines and command prompts. On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Agreed William, this is just what I mean. As far as I've ever found out microsoft is frankly just concerned with their bank balance and don't give a dam about their customers accept as a statistic. And lets not get on to their production methods, what they pay the people who actually assemmble! pc parts or the like. The only reason I use windows is for convenience sinse most things run on it, which is I suspect why ninety percent of people do, not necessarily because I actually like microsoft at all. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark. Microsoft only invests development time where they stand to gain or lose money. For the most part, even dropping support for vb was based on the fact that they were forcing developers to switch to vb.net so they could sell them a new set of development tools. The basic programming syntax stayed the same, but they changed the developement libraries to not be the same as those used with vb6. They did improve the software with vb.net, but vb6 wasn't making them enough money to justify fixing the security wholes and bugs for vb6. Assisting developers or users of code to run a 10 year old program does not gain them much sales, so they will invest the development time somewhere else. This is also part of what drives the changes to the user interfaces. They tell their customers see it looks different, so it is new where as most of the code is reused over windows versions. I agree with those who said that for innovation to happen we need change, but change does not always indicate something better. On 12/12/11, Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com wrote: actually, the better codes, = better gaming possibilities. so yes, it makes a different. dallas On 12/12/2011 23:13, dark wrote: Frankly dallas where games are concerned, I couldn't give a monkies how good the newer codes are. As I said, I don't really care about how powerful or anything else a system is, I care about what I can do with it. That's why i stil have a snes, sinse I can play all the game i rather like on it, despite it being no where near up to the standard of todays games' consoles. As I said, I just would like microsoft to acknolidge this, perhaps with a compatibility pack option that could be downloaded for those who needed it. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Dark, Before you make that argument, you should probably do a bit of research. Windows 7 includes Windows XP mode, which is a licensed, virtual copy of Windows XP. This should solve any problems with software compatibility that might exist between the two operating systems. To answer your second point, that's great that you have a SNES and can play older games. However, I've never seen you post any messages to the list accusing Nintendo of not caring about their customers because you can't play GameCube or Wii games with your SNES. On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Alex. But if microsoft care so much about customers, why don't they have any options to extend backwards compatibility of products? for instance a licenced microsoft virtual machine? Frankly, the reason they had to extend xp support is simply because vista was buggy as heck for several years and thus new xp machines were being bought as late as 2010. If microsoft had dropped support for what the majority of users use, people would go over to mac or other os and they'd lose sales. I don't really understand this business about technology moves move with it I repeat, I have my snes, which is now close to 20 years old. I keep it because I like the games on it. The fact that something is new technology has no real applicability to myself or probably to several other people as well if it doesn't actually let us do the things we want. A computer is afterall just a tool. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Dark, Again, I really think you're misrepresenting Microsoft here. Microsoft actually spends a huge amount of resources supporting older products. For example, one of the reasons Windows Vista was delayed as much as it was is because MS temporarily stopped its development in order to fix major security problems with Windows XP. If MS really behaved as you described, they would have just released Vista two years early and dropped XP. Instead, they've actually extended XP's support to 2014, ecause they understand that it's very popular. Of course, by then, XP will be 13 years old. Imagine running Windows 98 today. It wouldn't be a very pleasant experience. Technology moves on, and we need to at some point move along with it. If that's a problem, there are a few DOS operating systems that have been in development for several decades. Since unlike Windows, DOS operating systems are very simple, you shouldn't have too many bugs to worry about... I'm exaggerating here of course, but if that's the attitude most people had, we'd still be using teletype machines and command prompts. On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Agreed William, this is just what I mean. As far as I've ever found out microsoft is frankly just concerned with their bank balance and don't give a dam about their customers accept as a statistic. And lets not get on to their production methods, what they pay the people who actually assemmble! pc parts or the like. The only reason I use windows is for convenience sinse most things run on it, which is I suspect why ninety percent of people do, not necessarily because I actually like microsoft at all. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark. Microsoft only invests development time where they stand to gain or lose money. For the most part, even dropping support for vb was based on the fact that they were forcing developers to switch to vb.net so they could sell them a new set of development tools. The basic programming syntax stayed the same, but they changed the developement libraries to not be the same as those used with vb6. They did improve the software with vb.net, but vb6 wasn't making them enough money to justify fixing the security wholes and bugs for vb6. Assisting developers or users of code to run a 10 year old program does not gain them much sales, so they will invest the development time somewhere else. This is also part of what drives the changes to the user interfaces. They tell their customers see it looks different, so it is new where as most of the code is reused over windows versions. I agree with those who said that for innovation to happen we need change, but change does not always indicate something better. On 12/12/11, Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com wrote: actually, the better codes, = better gaming possibilities. so yes, it makes a different. dallas On 12/12/2011 23:13, dark wrote: Frankly dallas where games are concerned, I couldn't give a monkies how good the newer codes are. As I said
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Of course, there are people who still use 98 today, myself being one of them. As a matter of fact, when my win 7 machine crashed a while back, it took me well under an hour to be able to do all of my mandatory things on 98. The only thing I really had to do was dig up some flash drivers, and put in a little more ram. That 98 machine serves as a handy backup now, as well as a large disk formatting tool.- Original Message - From: Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 13:57:39 -0330 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Dark, Again, I really think you're misrepresenting Microsoft here. Microsoft actually spends a huge amount of resources supporting older products. For example, one of the reasons Windows Vista was delayed as much as it was is because MS temporarily stopped its development in order to fix major security problems with Windows XP. If MS really behaved as you described, they would have just released Vista two years early and dropped XP. Instead, they've actually extended XP's support to 2014, ecause they understand that it's very popular. Of course, by then, XP will be 13 years old. Imagine running Windows 98 today. It wouldn't be a very pleasant experience. Technology moves on, and we need to at some point move along with it. If that's a problem, there are a few DOS operating systems that have been in development for several decades. Since unlike Windows, DOS operating systems are very simple, you shouldn't have too many bugs to worry about... I'm exaggerating here of course, but if that's the attitude most people had, we'd still be using teletype machines and command prompts. On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Agreed William, this is just what I mean. As far as I've ever found out microsoft is frankly just concerned with their bank balance and don't give a dam about their customers accept as a statistic. And lets not get on to their production methods, what they pay the people who actually assemmble! pc parts or the like. The only reason I use windows is for convenience sinse most things run on it, which is I suspect why ninety percent of people do, not necessarily because I actually like microsoft at all. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark. Microsoft only invests development time where they stand to gain or lose money. For the most part, even dropping support for vb was based on the fact that they were forcing developers to switch to vb.net so they could sell them a new set of development tools. The basic programming syntax stayed the same, but they changed the developement libraries to not be the same as those used with vb6. They did improve the software with vb.net, but vb6 wasn't making them enough money to justify fixing the security wholes and bugs for vb6. Assisting developers or users of code to run a 10 year old program does not gain them much sales, so they will invest the development time somewhere else. This is also part of what drives the changes to the user interfaces. They tell their customers see it looks different, so it is new where as most of the code is reused over windows versions. I agree with those who said that for innovation to happen we need change, but change does not always indicate something better. On 12/12/11, Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com wrote: actually, the better codes, = better gaming possibilities. so yes, it makes a different. dallas On 12/12/2011 23:13, dark wrote: Frankly dallas where games are concerned, I couldn't give a monkies how good the newer codes are. As I said, I don't really care about how powerful or anything else a system is, I care about what I can do with it. That's why i stil have a snes, sinse I can play all the game i rather like on it, despite it being no where near up to the standard of todays games' consoles. As I said, I just would like microsoft to acknolidge this, perhaps with a compatibility pack option that could be downloaded for those who needed it. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
As far as wifi goes, win7 connects in five seconds flat. This is quite a lot faster than even a high-end xp laptop, which took around 30. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:34:39 - Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Valiant. In fairness I have only tried windows 7 on someone else's system not my own, so haven't had chance to deal with the search box. As I said though, for me it's really because I'd rather see where things are and physically go and pick them up and put down, rather than trust an automated system. Speed is less concern, though actually pressing p g g and down arrow is not that many less key presses than typing the word tank then arrowing through results either. Then of course there are many times I want to choose. For example, last time I ws on the train, i wanted a relatively quick game to play, and one that didn't have overbearing sounds. So I go into my audio games folder, look for a developer, and found spoonbill, but which game do I feel like? This is far nicer to do with a list rather than a search box. It's certainly a feature I'll try out when I get windows 7, but currently with the setup I use and my preferences for doing things i'm not sure whether it'd sute me or not. As to wifi networks, I'm slightly confused sinse the method you describe is exactly what I do on xp. Network connections in start menue, wireless network connections, enter once then you've got the list of available networks in range that you can just hit enter and connect on. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Problem with xp mode is that it only works on win7 pro or ultimate, no home premium users, which is most of what (at least as far as I know) is being sold in computer shops, using Best BUy Buy as my basis. - Original Message - From: Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 14:31:44 -0330 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Dark, Before you make that argument, you should probably do a bit of research. Windows 7 includes Windows XP mode, which is a licensed, virtual copy of Windows XP. This should solve any problems with software compatibility that might exist between the two operating systems. To answer your second point, that's great that you have a SNES and can play older games. However, I've never seen you post any messages to the list accusing Nintendo of not caring about their customers because you can't play GameCube or Wii games with your SNES. On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Alex. But if microsoft care so much about customers, why don't they have any options to extend backwards compatibility of products? for instance a licenced microsoft virtual machine? Frankly, the reason they had to extend xp support is simply because vista was buggy as heck for several years and thus new xp machines were being bought as late as 2010. If microsoft had dropped support for what the majority of users use, people would go over to mac or other os and they'd lose sales. I don't really understand this business about technology moves move with it I repeat, I have my snes, which is now close to 20 years old. I keep it because I like the games on it. The fact that something is new technology has no real applicability to myself or probably to several other people as well if it doesn't actually let us do the things we want. A computer is afterall just a tool. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Dark, Again, I really think you're misrepresenting Microsoft here. Microsoft actually spends a huge amount of resources supporting older products. For example, one of the reasons Windows Vista was delayed as much as it was is because MS temporarily stopped its development in order to fix major security problems with Windows XP. If MS really behaved as you described, they would have just released Vista two years early and dropped XP. Instead, they've actually extended XP's support to 2014, ecause they understand that it's very popular. Of course, by then, XP will be 13 years old. Imagine running Windows 98 today. It wouldn't be a very pleasant experience. Technology moves on, and we need to at some point move along with it. If that's a problem, there are a few DOS operating systems that have been in development for several decades. Since unlike Windows, DOS operating systems are very simple, you shouldn't have too many bugs to worry about... I'm exaggerating here of course, but if that's the attitude most people had, we'd still be using teletype machines and command prompts. On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Agreed William, this is just what I mean. As far as I've ever found out microsoft is frankly just concerned with their bank balance and don't give a dam about their customers accept as a statistic. And lets not get on to their production methods, what they pay the people who actually assemmble! pc parts or the like. The only reason I use windows is for convenience sinse most things run on it, which is I suspect why ninety percent of people do, not necessarily because I actually like microsoft at all. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark. Microsoft only invests development time where they stand to gain or lose money. For the most part, even dropping support for vb was based on the fact that they were forcing developers to switch to vb.net so they could sell them a new set of development tools. The basic programming syntax stayed the same, but they changed the developement libraries to not be the same as those used with vb6. They did improve the software with vb.net, but vb6 wasn't making them enough money to justify fixing the security wholes and bugs for vb6. Assisting developers or users of code to run a 10 year old program does not gain them much sales, so they will invest the development time somewhere else. This is also part of what drives the changes to the user interfaces. They tell their customers see it looks different, so it is new where as most of the code is reused over windows versions. I agree with those who said
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Dark, That should be an easy fix, adding three digits to the mission number for Lone Wolf is something I am sure he has been aware of. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi. Microsoft does have a licensed virtual machine. I think you have to have Win7 ultimate to get it though. Sent with Thunderbird 3.1.14 portable. On 12/12/2011 12:42 PM, dark wrote: Hi Alex. But if microsoft care so much about customers, why don't they have any options to extend backwards compatibility of products? for instance a licenced microsoft virtual machine? Frankly, the reason they had to extend xp support is simply because vista was buggy as heck for several years and thus new xp machines were being bought as late as 2010. If microsoft had dropped support for what the majority of users use, people would go over to mac or other os and they'd lose sales. I don't really understand this business about technology moves move with it I repeat, I have my snes, which is now close to 20 years old. I keep it because I like the games on it. The fact that something is new technology has no real applicability to myself or probably to several other people as well if it doesn't actually let us do the things we want. A computer is afterall just a tool. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Dark, Again, I really think you're misrepresenting Microsoft here. Microsoft actually spends a huge amount of resources supporting older products. For example, one of the reasons Windows Vista was delayed as much as it was is because MS temporarily stopped its development in order to fix major security problems with Windows XP. If MS really behaved as you described, they would have just released Vista two years early and dropped XP. Instead, they've actually extended XP's support to 2014, ecause they understand that it's very popular. Of course, by then, XP will be 13 years old. Imagine running Windows 98 today. It wouldn't be a very pleasant experience. Technology moves on, and we need to at some point move along with it. If that's a problem, there are a few DOS operating systems that have been in development for several decades. Since unlike Windows, DOS operating systems are very simple, you shouldn't have too many bugs to worry about... I'm exaggerating here of course, but if that's the attitude most people had, we'd still be using teletype machines and command prompts. On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Agreed William, this is just what I mean. As far as I've ever found out microsoft is frankly just concerned with their bank balance and don't give a dam about their customers accept as a statistic. And lets not get on to their production methods, what they pay the people who actually assemmble! pc parts or the like. The only reason I use windows is for convenience sinse most things run on it, which is I suspect why ninety percent of people do, not necessarily because I actually like microsoft at all. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Willem Venter dwill...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi dark. Microsoft only invests development time where they stand to gain or lose money. For the most part, even dropping support for vb was based on the fact that they were forcing developers to switch to vb.net so they could sell them a new set of development tools. The basic programming syntax stayed the same, but they changed the developement libraries to not be the same as those used with vb6. They did improve the software with vb.net, but vb6 wasn't making them enough money to justify fixing the security wholes and bugs for vb6. Assisting developers or users of code to run a 10 year old program does not gain them much sales, so they will invest the development time somewhere else. This is also part of what drives the changes to the user interfaces. They tell their customers see it looks different, so it is new where as most of the code is reused over windows versions. I agree with those who said that for innovation to happen we need change, but change does not always indicate something better. On 12/12/11, Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com wrote: actually, the better codes, = better gaming possibilities. so yes, it makes a different. dallas On 12/12/2011 23:13, dark wrote: Frankly dallas where games are concerned, I couldn't give a monkies how good the newer codes are. As I said, I don't really care about how powerful or anything else a system is, I care about what I can do with it. That's why i stil have a snes, sinse I can play all the game i rather like on it, despite it being no where near up to the standard of todays games' consoles. As I said, I just would like microsoft to acknolidge this, perhaps with a compatibility pack option that could be downloaded for those who needed it. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Dark, Actually, this already exists. I don't know if you know this but Windows 7 Professional and Windows 7 Ultimate come with a licensed Windows XP virtual machine complete with the VB 6 runtime libraries and the whole nine yards. Granted you have to pay extra for Windows XP backwards compatibility, but to say Microsoft doesn't already do this is false. Microsoft knows companies and gamers can't necessarily run all their older software on Windows 7 Starter and Windows 7 Home so they've included a Windows XP virtual machine into the Professional and Ultimate versions of the opperating system. So Microsoft is aware of the issue, and offer the very feature you mentioned below in their pro and ultimate versions of Windows 7. Its not a compatibility pack, but a licensed copy of Windows XP that is installed inside Windows 7 Ultimate so you get the best of both worlds on the same dvd. This is precisely why I feel you guys are giving Microsoft a bad wrap here. Microsoft is doing the best they can to maintain long term backwards compatibility and the way they have done it in Windows 7 is by using a virtual machine they created specifically for Windows XP applications. I suppose the only reason most people are unaware of it is that most PCs from HP, Compaq, Toshiba, Del, etc all come with Windows 7 Home Premium, and you need Windows Ultimate to get all of the applications and extras for Windows 7 Microsoft has to offer including a licensed copy of XP for the Windows 7 virtual machine. I really recommend doing a bit of research about this topic as I think you just opened your mouth and inserted your foot on that one. Cheers! On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Alex. But if microsoft care so much about customers, why don't they have any options to extend backwards compatibility of products? for instance a licenced microsoft virtual machine? Frankly, the reason they had to extend xp support is simply because vista was buggy as heck for several years and thus new xp machines were being bought as late as 2010. If microsoft had dropped support for what the majority of users use, people would go over to mac or other os and they'd lose sales. I don't really understand this business about technology moves move with it I repeat, I have my snes, which is now close to 20 years old. I keep it because I like the games on it. The fact that something is new technology has no real applicability to myself or probably to several other people as well if it doesn't actually let us do the things we want. A computer is afterall just a tool. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi, Well, that's where Ebay and places like that come in handy. I've seen old Pentium 133 computers with Windows 95 on them for like $15. You could purchase the computer or find someone on there selling Windows 95 separately on the cheep and install it in a virtual machine. That's really the only solution for hanging on to software that is that old. Cheers! On 12/12/11, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Yea... But what do you do about the classic games? Surely, there are still many people in the world who want to use the old games. But running an outdated operating system like Windows 95 or older on modern PCs isn't an option when the os doesn't get along with your hardware due to a lack of drivers... And you might want to use a virtual machine, but then is the question where to get that old operating system you need legally. Good if you still have installation media, but what if not? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Michael, That is true. Technically the DirectX end user license forbids installing the components separately out side of the official Microsoft installer, and of course dx7vb.dll and dx8vb.dll do not ship with newer DirectX runtime distributions. From a legal standpoint its a lose-lose situation. However, several people like Jim Kitchen, GMA, etc install those libraries anyway, and I don't see it as a very big crime. No one has ever been asked to remove it from their installers and Microsoft hasn't given anyone grief over it. So while it might technically be illegal Microsoft isn't actively hunting people down and making them stop either. So as an end user I wouldn't worry too much about it. As you already know we can install the missing Visual Basic runtime libraries and they are still compatible with Windows 7 code. This is, I think, a testament to how backwards compatible Windows really is. If you are worried about legal issues this is a classic case of don't ask don't tell. Cheers! On 12/12/11, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Thomas, I don't want to judge anyone. But there is a difference here. Fine if MS wants to remove VB 6 support. It is a developer's job to do something about a programs compatibility. But what should someone do as an end user? It is not my fault if a program screams about missing DLLs... OK, I can download the VB 6 runtime if I need to run a VB 6 file. But isn't part of current DirectX end user license specifically forbidding you to manually install DX7VB.DLL or DX8VB.DLL into your current operating systems and/or their DirectX (DX 10 or DX 11)? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Charles, Sorry, but you are out of luck. I've seen the Windows 8 beta and the ribbons are a standard part of the Windows 8 user interface.For instance, if you open up Windows Explorer you are now greeted with a nice ribbon across the top of the screen instead of the typical menu bar. Plus all the other major free applications like Internet Explorer, Windows Mail, Media Player, etc all use ribbons now. Its pretty much a case of learn to roll with the change or stick with XP until your PC dies of old age. Then, of course, sooner or later you'll have to invest in a new PC to replace the old one and end up having to get use to the changes anyway. I don't really see any realistic way around it unless you decide to go Mac, Linux, or adopt some other operating system other than Windows. Cheers! On 12/12/11, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: If the ribbons are going to be removed, and if the traditional menus that are accessible to everyone return, that feature alone might make me want to switch. --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
haven't yet been able to test the xp mode out, even though i have pro on my toshiba, i have yet to download the virtual machine and xp image. they don't actually come with it, you have to download them. but yes, the support is definatly there. dallas On 13/12/2011 15:35, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Dark, Actually, this already exists. I don't know if you know this but Windows 7 Professional and Windows 7 Ultimate come with a licensed Windows XP virtual machine complete with the VB 6 runtime libraries and the whole nine yards. Granted you have to pay extra for Windows XP backwards compatibility, but to say Microsoft doesn't already do this is false. Microsoft knows companies and gamers can't necessarily run all their older software on Windows 7 Starter and Windows 7 Home so they've included a Windows XP virtual machine into the Professional and Ultimate versions of the opperating system. So Microsoft is aware of the issue, and offer the very feature you mentioned below in their pro and ultimate versions of Windows 7. Its not a compatibility pack, but a licensed copy of Windows XP that is installed inside Windows 7 Ultimate so you get the best of both worlds on the same dvd. This is precisely why I feel you guys are giving Microsoft a bad wrap here. Microsoft is doing the best they can to maintain long term backwards compatibility and the way they have done it in Windows 7 is by using a virtual machine they created specifically for Windows XP applications. I suppose the only reason most people are unaware of it is that most PCs from HP, Compaq, Toshiba, Del, etc all come with Windows 7 Home Premium, and you need Windows Ultimate to get all of the applications and extras for Windows 7 Microsoft has to offer including a licensed copy of XP for the Windows 7 virtual machine. I really recommend doing a bit of research about this topic as I think you just opened your mouth and inserted your foot on that one. Cheers! On 12/12/11, darkd...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Alex. But if microsoft care so much about customers, why don't they have any options to extend backwards compatibility of products? for instance a licenced microsoft virtual machine? Frankly, the reason they had to extend xp support is simply because vista was buggy as heck for several years and thus new xp machines were being bought as late as 2010. If microsoft had dropped support for what the majority of users use, people would go over to mac or other os and they'd lose sales. I don't really understand this business about technology moves move with it I repeat, I have my snes, which is now close to 20 years old. I keep it because I like the games on it. The fact that something is new technology has no real applicability to myself or probably to several other people as well if it doesn't actually let us do the things we want. A computer is afterall just a tool. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
bare in mind, that the developer windows 8 isn't exactly how its going to look at final production. so they may well remove those before the full version comes out. but never the less, they are looking in to getting rid of it at some point. if not in 8, then the next version perhaps dallas On 13/12/2011 16:10, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Charles, Sorry, but you are out of luck. I've seen the Windows 8 beta and the ribbons are a standard part of the Windows 8 user interface.For instance, if you open up Windows Explorer you are now greeted with a nice ribbon across the top of the screen instead of the typical menu bar. Plus all the other major free applications like Internet Explorer, Windows Mail, Media Player, etc all use ribbons now. Its pretty much a case of learn to roll with the change or stick with XP until your PC dies of old age. Then, of course, sooner or later you'll have to invest in a new PC to replace the old one and end up having to get use to the changes anyway. I don't really see any realistic way around it unless you decide to go Mac, Linux, or adopt some other operating system other than Windows. Cheers! On 12/12/11, Charles Rivardwee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: If the ribbons are going to be removed, and if the traditional menus that are accessible to everyone return, that feature alone might make me want to switch. --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Dallas, Sure. I realize it was just a beta, and if what you say is true about Microsoft reversing their decision about the ribbons my guess is they will yank those sometime between now and the final release. I guess it all depends on how much money MS stands to lose by keeping them around. Cheers! On 12/13/11, Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com wrote: bare in mind, that the developer windows 8 isn't exactly how its going to look at final production. so they may well remove those before the full version comes out. but never the less, they are looking in to getting rid of it at some point. if not in 8, then the next version perhaps dallas --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Dallas, Thanks. I stand corrected about it coming preinstalled with Pro/Ultimate, but like we've both said the option is available for those who need it. Although, I've heard unless you have a pretty high-end system the XP virtual machine runs slow. So unfortunately that is a potential problem with running a vm like that. Now, as for myself I have VMWare Player installed on my Toshiba laptop with a Windows XP Home and a Ubuntu 11.0-4 Linux virtual machine installed. So for me I can really get my cake and eat it too as I have three operating systems I can switch between using VMWare. I have Win 7 as the host, Windows XP for older games and applications, and Ubuntu Linux for Linux applications and development. Its the only way to go when running a PC where you need more than the host operating system has to offer. One thing is for sure it makes this whole argument about backwards compatibility a pretty mute point. Cheers! On 12/13/11, Dallas O'Brien dallas-obr...@bigpond.com wrote: haven't yet been able to test the xp mode out, even though i have pro on my toshiba, i have yet to download the virtual machine and xp image. they don't actually come with it, you have to download them. but yes, the support is definatly there. dallas --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Dark, Yes, Windows Classic Shell gives you back the classic Windows 9x era start menu, or at least something close to it. WCS also makes some other modifications like in Windows Explorer to give you the classic copy and replace dialog rather than the new one from Vista/Windows 7. Windows Clasic Shell is really the best compromise for those looking for the Windows XP look and feel but want to be running Windows 7. Cheers! On 12/12/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Thanks quentin, It's good to know that someone! in the open source community has thought the same and won't accept what microsoft give out. Certainly when I do have to get windows 7 I'll have a look for that program. i've heard of classic shell before, but I don't think that covers the start menue. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
yeah i have much the same kind of setup. though, i don't use that much in the way of older games anymore. so its not to bad on my part. i am waiting for the newer, better, and more fun games to come out! dallas On 13/12/2011 16:39, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Dallas, Thanks. I stand corrected about it coming preinstalled with Pro/Ultimate, but like we've both said the option is available for those who need it. Although, I've heard unless you have a pretty high-end system the XP virtual machine runs slow. So unfortunately that is a potential problem with running a vm like that. Now, as for myself I have VMWare Player installed on my Toshiba laptop with a Windows XP Home and a Ubuntu 11.0-4 Linux virtual machine installed. So for me I can really get my cake and eat it too as I have three operating systems I can switch between using VMWare. I have Win 7 as the host, Windows XP for older games and applications, and Ubuntu Linux for Linux applications and development. Its the only way to go when running a PC where you need more than the host operating system has to offer. One thing is for sure it makes this whole argument about backwards compatibility a pretty mute point. Cheers! On 12/13/11, Dallas O'Briendallas-obr...@bigpond.com wrote: haven't yet been able to test the xp mode out, even though i have pro on my toshiba, i have yet to download the virtual machine and xp image. they don't actually come with it, you have to download them. but yes, the support is definatly there. dallas --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Phil. Out of interest were there any major gameplay changes associated with lone wolf version 4? while I see the point, frankly just because microsoft are too lazy to add backward compatibility into windows doesn't mean there won't be ways around, and in the case of vb applications it seems that there are already pretty solid ways of running them on windows 7, which is why developers like Jim and Aprone are writing games in vb 6 stil (and I don't mean the hole virtual system emulation mallarchy either). So personally, and not just because I'm stil running xp (my computer afterall can't last forever), I am rather more interested in what possible gameplay changes or additions version 4 might have, especially if it's being sold as a separate game. Then of course what about the 92 custom missions for the game? personally I'd be more in favour of David writing a sequal rather than a version upgrade to the game, with significant gameplay changes, and leaving lone wolf version 3 as the distinct lone wolf. beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 2:59 PM Subject: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Folks, I'm pasting a message from David about his games. - Original Message - From: GMAGames - David Greenwood davidgreenw...@rogers.com Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:27 PM Subject: [GMAGamesTalk] Re: Any plans for an updated Lone Wolf? Hi all, After reviewing my schedule and looking at what i have done, partially done, and what needs updates, I have decided to rewrite LoneWolf 4 from scratch. It is currently written in VB6 and it is getting the the point where it is a matter of just a couple of years before programs written in this language may not be supported. Matter of fact, the development environment no longer works in Windows 7, but if developed in Vista say, it will still run in Windows 7 and Windows 8, but Microsoft has said that it probably won't thereafter. What does this mean to you? Firstly, all the previous work on LW will be discarded, including original LW code and any changes I've made so far towards LW4 in VB6. This will extend the schedule out quite a bit. Next, due to the amount of work, LW4 will need to be purchased as a new game. If there is a credit for previous owners of the license, it would be small. In any event, LW3 will continue to be supported and key replacements will continue to be generated for people who do not upgrade. Regards, David Greenwood, davidgreenw...@gmagames.com http://www.GMAGames.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
To be honest I would only be interested in purchasing a new version of lw if it was just that a new version. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Phil Vlasak Sent: 11 December 2011 14:59 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Folks, I'm pasting a message from David about his games. - Original Message - From: GMAGames - David Greenwood davidgreenw...@rogers.com Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:27 PM Subject: [GMAGamesTalk] Re: Any plans for an updated Lone Wolf? Hi all, After reviewing my schedule and looking at what i have done, partially done, and what needs updates, I have decided to rewrite LoneWolf 4 from scratch. It is currently written in VB6 and it is getting the the point where it is a matter of just a couple of years before programs written in this language may not be supported. Matter of fact, the development environment no longer works in Windows 7, but if developed in Vista say, it will still run in Windows 7 and Windows 8, but Microsoft has said that it probably won't thereafter. What does this mean to you? Firstly, all the previous work on LW will be discarded, including original LW code and any changes I've made so far towards LW4 in VB6. This will extend the schedule out quite a bit. Next, due to the amount of work, LW4 will need to be purchased as a new game. If there is a credit for previous owners of the license, it would be small. In any event, LW3 will continue to be supported and key replacements will continue to be generated for people who do not upgrade. Regards, David Greenwood, davidgreenw...@gmagames.com http://www.GMAGames.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
if it is v3 but to work in new operating systems and no new features why pay? On Dec 11, 2011, at 4:23 PM, Darren Harris wrote: To be honest I would only be interested in purchasing a new version of lw if it was just that a new version. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Phil Vlasak Sent: 11 December 2011 14:59 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Folks, I'm pasting a message from David about his games. - Original Message - From: GMAGames - David Greenwood davidgreenw...@rogers.com Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:27 PM Subject: [GMAGamesTalk] Re: Any plans for an updated Lone Wolf? Hi all, After reviewing my schedule and looking at what i have done, partially done, and what needs updates, I have decided to rewrite LoneWolf 4 from scratch. It is currently written in VB6 and it is getting the the point where it is a matter of just a couple of years before programs written in this language may not be supported. Matter of fact, the development environment no longer works in Windows 7, but if developed in Vista say, it will still run in Windows 7 and Windows 8, but Microsoft has said that it probably won't thereafter. What does this mean to you? Firstly, all the previous work on LW will be discarded, including original LW code and any changes I've made so far towards LW4 in VB6. This will extend the schedule out quite a bit. Next, due to the amount of work, LW4 will need to be purchased as a new game. If there is a credit for previous owners of the license, it would be small. In any event, LW3 will continue to be supported and key replacements will continue to be generated for people who do not upgrade. Regards, David Greenwood, davidgreenw...@gmagames.com http://www.GMAGames.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Dark, David posted a list of Lone Wolf version 4 changes quite a wile ago, maybe 3 or 4 years. I can't find the message. Probably left it on one of my older computers. If anyone has it pleas re-post it. Phil - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Phil. Out of interest were there any major gameplay changes associated with lone wolf version 4? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi,I Understand the work required, but I don't understand why David would think anyone would purchase the game ifhe's simply rewriting it. I have no current plans to upgrade windows to any nonexistent version that does not allow the use of VB Code, and it sounds to me as if there are to be no changes to actual gameplay. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of william lomas Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 10:30 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf if it is v3 but to work in new operating systems and no new features why pay? On Dec 11, 2011, at 4:23 PM, Darren Harris wrote: To be honest I would only be interested in purchasing a new version of lw if it was just that a new version. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Phil Vlasak Sent: 11 December 2011 14:59 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Folks, I'm pasting a message from David about his games. - Original Message - From: GMAGames - David Greenwood davidgreenw...@rogers.com Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:27 PM Subject: [GMAGamesTalk] Re: Any plans for an updated Lone Wolf? Hi all, After reviewing my schedule and looking at what i have done, partially done, and what needs updates, I have decided to rewrite LoneWolf 4 from scratch. It is currently written in VB6 and it is getting the the point where it is a matter of just a couple of years before programs written in this language may not be supported. Matter of fact, the development environment no longer works in Windows 7, but if developed in Vista say, it will still run in Windows 7 and Windows 8, but Microsoft has said that it probably won't thereafter. What does this mean to you? Firstly, all the previous work on LW will be discarded, including original LW code and any changes I've made so far towards LW4 in VB6. This will extend the schedule out quite a bit. Next, due to the amount of work, LW4 will need to be purchased as a new game. If there is a credit for previous owners of the license, it would be small. In any event, LW3 will continue to be supported and key replacements will continue to be generated for people who do not upgrade. Regards, David Greenwood, davidgreenw...@gmagames.com http://www.GMAGames.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1415 / Virus Database: 2102/4074 - Release Date: 12/11/11 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Hayden, David is not re-writing Lone Wolf version 3, he is re-writing Lone Wolf version 4, a game you haven't played. I don't have his list of features and it is probably going to change in the future. One item on the list was to make Lone Wolf a multi player game like his Time of Conflict. Phil - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi,I Understand the work required, but I don't understand why David would think anyone would purchase the game ifhe's simply rewriting it. I have no current plans to upgrade windows to any nonexistent version that does not allow the use of VB Code, and it sounds to me as if there are to be no changes to actual gameplay. Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Another change was to have rear facing torpedo tubes. I'm still looking for the list of changes. Seems like I've got it somewhere, but haven't found it. If I find it, I'll post it. --- Security is not the absence of danger. It is the presence of the Lord. - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Hayden, David is not re-writing Lone Wolf version 3, he is re-writing Lone Wolf version 4, a game you haven't played. I don't have his list of features and it is probably going to change in the future. One item on the list was to make Lone Wolf a multi player game like his Time of Conflict. Phil - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi,I Understand the work required, but I don't understand why David would think anyone would purchase the game ifhe's simply rewriting it. I have no current plans to upgrade windows to any nonexistent version that does not allow the use of VB Code, and it sounds to me as if there are to be no changes to actual gameplay. Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
ah, tht would be good indeed, if lots of people could sub around the ocean. Perhaps either yourself Phil or someone else on the gma list could ask David for an updated changelog, just so that with the recent announcement it's a litle clearer what we will be getting when version 4 of lw rolls around. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Hayden, David is not re-writing Lone Wolf version 3, he is re-writing Lone Wolf version 4, a game you haven't played. I don't have his list of features and it is probably going to change in the future. One item on the list was to make Lone Wolf a multi player game like his Time of Conflict. Phil - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi,I Understand the work required, but I don't understand why David would think anyone would purchase the game ifhe's simply rewriting it. I have no current plans to upgrade windows to any nonexistent version that does not allow the use of VB Code, and it sounds to me as if there are to be no changes to actual gameplay. Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
While I'm not usually the person who will jump to Microsoft's defense, I don't think it's really fair to say they were too lazy to bother adding VB compatibility. After all, Windows 8 will still run games written in VB, but I'm guessing it will require the same tweaks that Vista and 7 do, namely registering the DirectX 8 libraries. While MS will be breaking VB support partly to force people to remove .NET, another In 1998, most people were using Windows 9X, which is an entirely different OS architecture than even Windows XP. The older code or components get, the more difficult it is to keep them working as a product evolves, and the more potential problems it can cause. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least two major Windows security problems that were the result of code that had been in Windows for several decades, most likely to maintain backward-compatibility. While I agree that MS breaking VB compatibility is going to cause huge problems in the audio games community, there are certainly technical reasons why MS is doing it beyond laziness and forcing people to upgrade. On 12/11/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Phil. Out of interest were there any major gameplay changes associated with lone wolf version 4? while I see the point, frankly just because microsoft are too lazy to add backward compatibility into windows doesn't mean there won't be ways around, and in the case of vb applications it seems that there are already pretty solid ways of running them on windows 7, which is why developers like Jim and Aprone are writing games in vb 6 stil (and I don't mean the hole virtual system emulation mallarchy either). So personally, and not just because I'm stil running xp (my computer afterall can't last forever), I am rather more interested in what possible gameplay changes or additions version 4 might have, especially if it's being sold as a separate game. Then of course what about the 92 custom missions for the game? personally I'd be more in favour of David writing a sequal rather than a version upgrade to the game, with significant gameplay changes, and leaving lone wolf version 3 as the distinct lone wolf. beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 2:59 PM Subject: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Folks, I'm pasting a message from David about his games. - Original Message - From: GMAGames - David Greenwood davidgreenw...@rogers.com Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:27 PM Subject: [GMAGamesTalk] Re: Any plans for an updated Lone Wolf? Hi all, After reviewing my schedule and looking at what i have done, partially done, and what needs updates, I have decided to rewrite LoneWolf 4 from scratch. It is currently written in VB6 and it is getting the the point where it is a matter of just a couple of years before programs written in this language may not be supported. Matter of fact, the development environment no longer works in Windows 7, but if developed in Vista say, it will still run in Windows 7 and Windows 8, but Microsoft has said that it probably won't thereafter. What does this mean to you? Firstly, all the previous work on LW will be discarded, including original LW code and any changes I've made so far towards LW4 in VB6. This will extend the schedule out quite a bit. Next, due to the amount of work, LW4 will need to be purchased as a new game. If there is a credit for previous owners of the license, it would be small. In any event, LW3 will continue to be supported and key replacements will continue to be generated for people who do not upgrade. Regards, David Greenwood, davidgreenw...@gmagames.com http://www.GMAGames.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Same, I payed good cash for lw, I don't just buy it if all it is is able to run on 7 or 8 or whatever next windows is. It would have to be substantial. Maybe if I could get the latest game packs of gtc, lw and sod with new versions I may concider it. At 04:23 p.m. 11/12/2011 +, you wrote: To be honest I would only be interested in purchasing a new version of lw if it was just that a new version. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Phil Vlasak Sent: 11 December 2011 14:59 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Folks, I'm pasting a message from David about his games. - Original Message - From: GMAGames - David Greenwood davidgreenw...@rogers.com Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:27 PM Subject: [GMAGamesTalk] Re: Any plans for an updated Lone Wolf? Hi all, After reviewing my schedule and looking at what i have done, partially done, and what needs updates, I have decided to rewrite LoneWolf 4 from scratch. It is currently written in VB6 and it is getting the the point where it is a matter of just a couple of years before programs written in this language may not be supported. Matter of fact, the development environment no longer works in Windows 7, but if developed in Vista say, it will still run in Windows 7 and Windows 8, but Microsoft has said that it probably won't thereafter. What does this mean to you? Firstly, all the previous work on LW will be discarded, including original LW code and any changes I've made so far towards LW4 in VB6. This will extend the schedule out quite a bit. Next, due to the amount of work, LW4 will need to be purchased as a new game. If there is a credit for previous owners of the license, it would be small. In any event, LW3 will continue to be supported and key replacements will continue to be generated for people who do not upgrade. Regards, David Greenwood, davidgreenw...@gmagames.com http://www.GMAGames.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
yeah we will have games that are like jaws, pro to use pro versions of an os, yuck. At 04:30 p.m. 11/12/2011 +, you wrote: if it is v3 but to work in new operating systems and no new features why pay? On Dec 11, 2011, at 4:23 PM, Darren Harris wrote: To be honest I would only be interested in purchasing a new version of lw if it was just that a new version. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Phil Vlasak Sent: 11 December 2011 14:59 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Folks, I'm pasting a message from David about his games. - Original Message - From: GMAGames - David Greenwood davidgreenw...@rogers.com Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:27 PM Subject: [GMAGamesTalk] Re: Any plans for an updated Lone Wolf? Hi all, After reviewing my schedule and looking at what i have done, partially done, and what needs updates, I have decided to rewrite LoneWolf 4 from scratch. It is currently written in VB6 and it is getting the the point where it is a matter of just a couple of years before programs written in this language may not be supported. Matter of fact, the development environment no longer works in Windows 7, but if developed in Vista say, it will still run in Windows 7 and Windows 8, but Microsoft has said that it probably won't thereafter. What does this mean to you? Firstly, all the previous work on LW will be discarded, including original LW code and any changes I've made so far towards LW4 in VB6. This will extend the schedule out quite a bit. Next, due to the amount of work, LW4 will need to be purchased as a new game. If there is a credit for previous owners of the license, it would be small. In any event, LW3 will continue to be supported and key replacements will continue to be generated for people who do not upgrade. Regards, David Greenwood, davidgreenw...@gmagames.com http://www.GMAGames.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
true, 16 bit stuff is being totally broken in 64 bit versions of windows, Though 16 bit support without a real dos emulater is not that nice anyway right now. Oh well, I guess we will have to play our old games with dosemu or other dos emulator in linux then. Or an old system which I plan to get. At 03:20 p.m. 11/12/2011 -0330, you wrote: While I'm not usually the person who will jump to Microsoft's defense, I don't think it's really fair to say they were too lazy to bother adding VB compatibility. After all, Windows 8 will still run games written in VB, but I'm guessing it will require the same tweaks that Vista and 7 do, namely registering the DirectX 8 libraries. While MS will be breaking VB support partly to force people to remove .NET, another In 1998, most people were using Windows 9X, which is an entirely different OS architecture than even Windows XP. The older code or components get, the more difficult it is to keep them working as a product evolves, and the more potential problems it can cause. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least two major Windows security problems that were the result of code that had been in Windows for several decades, most likely to maintain backward-compatibility. While I agree that MS breaking VB compatibility is going to cause huge problems in the audio games community, there are certainly technical reasons why MS is doing it beyond laziness and forcing people to upgrade. On 12/11/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Phil. Out of interest were there any major gameplay changes associated with lone wolf version 4? while I see the point, frankly just because microsoft are too lazy to add backward compatibility into windows doesn't mean there won't be ways around, and in the case of vb applications it seems that there are already pretty solid ways of running them on windows 7, which is why developers like Jim and Aprone are writing games in vb 6 stil (and I don't mean the hole virtual system emulation mallarchy either). So personally, and not just because I'm stil running xp (my computer afterall can't last forever), I am rather more interested in what possible gameplay changes or additions version 4 might have, especially if it's being sold as a separate game. Then of course what about the 92 custom missions for the game? personally I'd be more in favour of David writing a sequal rather than a version upgrade to the game, with significant gameplay changes, and leaving lone wolf version 3 as the distinct lone wolf. beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 2:59 PM Subject: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Folks, I'm pasting a message from David about his games. - Original Message - From: GMAGames - David Greenwood davidgreenw...@rogers.com Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:27 PM Subject: [GMAGamesTalk] Re: Any plans for an updated Lone Wolf? Hi all, After reviewing my schedule and looking at what i have done, partially done, and what needs updates, I have decided to rewrite LoneWolf 4 from scratch. It is currently written in VB6 and it is getting the the point where it is a matter of just a couple of years before programs written in this language may not be supported. Matter of fact, the development environment no longer works in Windows 7, but if developed in Vista say, it will still run in Windows 7 and Windows 8, but Microsoft has said that it probably won't thereafter. What does this mean to you? Firstly, all the previous work on LW will be discarded, including original LW code and any changes I've made so far towards LW4 in VB6. This will extend the schedule out quite a bit. Next, due to the amount of work, LW4 will need to be purchased as a new game. If there is a credit for previous owners of the license, it would be small. In any event, LW3 will continue to be supported and key replacements will continue to be generated for people who do not upgrade. Regards, David Greenwood, davidgreenw...@gmagames.com http://www.GMAGames.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Alex. As I said I'm not annoyed that Microsoft update their os, they have to, even if we don't like some of their decisions on interfaces etc. it just seems though that they don't give a dam about running older programs, games or anything else, they just claime newer = better it seems without actually considdering what people want their computers for, namely to run programs. comador didn't do this with their os or machines, even with compltely new hardware, going from amigar 500 to 1200. Even the big console developers are realizing that people like running their old games, hence the wii virtual consoles, virtual arcade and other such software versions of older games stil available on modern machines. Microsoft though just seem to expect everyone to update, buy their products and cope, because newer is always better in their opinion. for myself, if i could be certain all my games and other applications would work under windows 7, I'd be much less wary about updating. I just see this as a case of not listening to the customer and doing their own dam thing and expecting everyone to cope simply because they are a big fat company who just care about the prophit. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
well dark ms has never listened to the customer, well if they do not really much. Upgrading is usually better, unless there is a problem. Old hardware, or being disabled no matter what it is. It just makes everyone have to upgrade. Until nvda came along we had to pay for reader upgrades and some of us still from time to time have to. I have sn 12 but I don't need it. I have jaws but unless someone pays for that I won't need it. I have upgraded my hardware, but still, I have issues with all the new interfaces. Its not that they are new, its just that you are chucked in a room with a bunch of dalecs and expect to get along. Its quite annoying. Ms also likes to change the trends all the time without any real warning. I am getting used to the win7 interace and even like bits of office and ie9, I bet that they will change again. It was only because of their vista screwup that xp has lasted this long and maybe even vb compatability. THey are hoping people have switched over all of them. But why upgrade if things are stable. And unless my situation changes I will be staying with old hardware running xp. At 10:04 p.m. 11/12/2011 +, you wrote: Hi Alex. As I said I'm not annoyed that Microsoft update their os, they have to, even if we don't like some of their decisions on interfaces etc. it just seems though that they don't give a dam about running older programs, games or anything else, they just claime newer = better it seems without actually considdering what people want their computers for, namely to run programs. comador didn't do this with their os or machines, even with compltely new hardware, going from amigar 500 to 1200. Even the big console developers are realizing that people like running their old games, hence the wii virtual consoles, virtual arcade and other such software versions of older games stil available on modern machines. Microsoft though just seem to expect everyone to update, buy their products and cope, because newer is always better in their opinion. for myself, if i could be certain all my games and other applications would work under windows 7, I'd be much less wary about updating. I just see this as a case of not listening to the customer and doing their own dam thing and expecting everyone to cope simply because they are a big fat company who just care about the prophit. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
hi dark, its less to do with the fact that microsoft are to lazy to, but more that times have moved on, and we now have ways of doing things in a far more efitiant ways for newer computers. and as has been pointed out by people before, windows is bloated, .. well, thats come from trying to support all the old ways of doing things. so they are saying, sertain older ways of doing things will be fased out, in order to make room for the new, and especially with the newer processors and ram coming out, the old ways just do not suit anymore. anyways, yes, i would have thought it to be a better thing to create a totally new game, rather then recode an old one. but there you go. lol. perhaps make a modern day one? i think that could be cool, a modern day submarine game. mmm. dallas On 12/12/2011 01:46, dark wrote: Hi Phil. Out of interest were there any major gameplay changes associated with lone wolf version 4? while I see the point, frankly just because microsoft are too lazy to add backward compatibility into windows doesn't mean there won't be ways around, and in the case of vb applications it seems that there are already pretty solid ways of running them on windows 7, which is why developers like Jim and Aprone are writing games in vb 6 stil (and I don't mean the hole virtual system emulation mallarchy either). So personally, and not just because I'm stil running xp (my computer afterall can't last forever), I am rather more interested in what possible gameplay changes or additions version 4 might have, especially if it's being sold as a separate game. Then of course what about the 92 custom missions for the game? personally I'd be more in favour of David writing a sequal rather than a version upgrade to the game, with significant gameplay changes, and leaving lone wolf version 3 as the distinct lone wolf. beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 2:59 PM Subject: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Folks, I'm pasting a message from David about his games. - Original Message - From: GMAGames - David Greenwood davidgreenw...@rogers.com Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:27 PM Subject: [GMAGamesTalk] Re: Any plans for an updated Lone Wolf? Hi all, After reviewing my schedule and looking at what i have done, partially done, and what needs updates, I have decided to rewrite LoneWolf 4 from scratch. It is currently written in VB6 and it is getting the the point where it is a matter of just a couple of years before programs written in this language may not be supported. Matter of fact, the development environment no longer works in Windows 7, but if developed in Vista say, it will still run in Windows 7 and Windows 8, but Microsoft has said that it probably won't thereafter. What does this mean to you? Firstly, all the previous work on LW will be discarded, including original LW code and any changes I've made so far towards LW4 in VB6. This will extend the schedule out quite a bit. Next, due to the amount of work, LW4 will need to be purchased as a new game. If there is a credit for previous owners of the license, it would be small. In any event, LW3 will continue to be supported and key replacements will continue to be generated for people who do not upgrade. Regards, David Greenwood, davidgreenw...@gmagames.com http://www.GMAGames.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
well said. and yes, they have been known to drop backwards compatibility due to securety as well. and besides, if they support everything, windows is going to end up huge! not that it isn't already. lol dallas ' On 12/12/2011 04:50, Alex Kenny wrote: While I'm not usually the person who will jump to Microsoft's defense, I don't think it's really fair to say they were too lazy to bother adding VB compatibility. After all, Windows 8 will still run games written in VB, but I'm guessing it will require the same tweaks that Vista and 7 do, namely registering the DirectX 8 libraries. While MS will be breaking VB support partly to force people to remove .NET, another In 1998, most people were using Windows 9X, which is an entirely different OS architecture than even Windows XP. The older code or components get, the more difficult it is to keep them working as a product evolves, and the more potential problems it can cause. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least two major Windows security problems that were the result of code that had been in Windows for several decades, most likely to maintain backward-compatibility. While I agree that MS breaking VB compatibility is going to cause huge problems in the audio games community, there are certainly technical reasons why MS is doing it beyond laziness and forcing people to upgrade. On 12/11/11, darkd...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Phil. Out of interest were there any major gameplay changes associated with lone wolf version 4? while I see the point, frankly just because microsoft are too lazy to add backward compatibility into windows doesn't mean there won't be ways around, and in the case of vb applications it seems that there are already pretty solid ways of running them on windows 7, which is why developers like Jim and Aprone are writing games in vb 6 stil (and I don't mean the hole virtual system emulation mallarchy either). So personally, and not just because I'm stil running xp (my computer afterall can't last forever), I am rather more interested in what possible gameplay changes or additions version 4 might have, especially if it's being sold as a separate game. Then of course what about the 92 custom missions for the game? personally I'd be more in favour of David writing a sequal rather than a version upgrade to the game, with significant gameplay changes, and leaving lone wolf version 3 as the distinct lone wolf. beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasakp...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion listgamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 2:59 PM Subject: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Folks, I'm pasting a message from David about his games. - Original Message - From: GMAGames - David Greenwooddavidgreenw...@rogers.com Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:27 PM Subject: [GMAGamesTalk] Re: Any plans for an updated Lone Wolf? Hi all, After reviewing my schedule and looking at what i have done, partially done, and what needs updates, I have decided to rewrite LoneWolf 4 from scratch. It is currently written in VB6 and it is getting the the point where it is a matter of just a couple of years before programs written in this language may not be supported. Matter of fact, the development environment no longer works in Windows 7, but if developed in Vista say, it will still run in Windows 7 and Windows 8, but Microsoft has said that it probably won't thereafter. What does this mean to you? Firstly, all the previous work on LW will be discarded, including original LW code and any changes I've made so far towards LW4 in VB6. This will extend the schedule out quite a bit. Next, due to the amount of work, LW4 will need to be purchased as a new game. If there is a credit for previous owners of the license, it would be small. In any event, LW3 will continue to be supported and key replacements will continue to be generated for people who do not upgrade. Regards, David Greenwood, davidgreenw...@gmagames.com http://www.GMAGames.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi, Actually, Microsoft goes to great lengths to ensure backward-compatibility, much more than many other tech companies. If Microsoft behaved like Apple, i can garuntee that you would not be able to run VB games on modern machines, because MS would have removed support from their OS as soon as they decided to stop supporting it. Take the Windows API, for example. It's been around since 1985, and in order to ensure compatibility, MS just continued to add functionality and hacks. Because of this, the API has become extremely bloated with some redundant functions and annoying limitations. In Windows 8, they've created a whole new API, but are still supporting the old Windows API, despite the fact that it probably adds incredible bloat and increases the complexity of the OS. Because of this, I have to disagree with you that MS doesn't care about backward-compatibility. They have many, many faults, but that's not one of them. There comes a time when backward-compatibility must be broken to allow for improvement. We had to say goodbye to the DOS command prompt, Windows 9X and 16-bit software. We will probably be saying goodbye to VB support as well. Of course, if Windows 8 is the last to support VB, you'll still have lots of time to upgrade, as Microsoft supports its operating systems for quite a while. On 12/11/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Alex. As I said I'm not annoyed that Microsoft update their os, they have to, even if we don't like some of their decisions on interfaces etc. it just seems though that they don't give a dam about running older programs, games or anything else, they just claime newer = better it seems without actually considdering what people want their computers for, namely to run programs. comador didn't do this with their os or machines, even with compltely new hardware, going from amigar 500 to 1200. Even the big console developers are realizing that people like running their old games, hence the wii virtual consoles, virtual arcade and other such software versions of older games stil available on modern machines. Microsoft though just seem to expect everyone to update, buy their products and cope, because newer is always better in their opinion. for myself, if i could be certain all my games and other applications would work under windows 7, I'd be much less wary about updating. I just see this as a case of not listening to the customer and doing their own dam thing and expecting everyone to cope simply because they are a big fat company who just care about the prophit. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi, One thing that gets me is how people react to the vista start menu. I don't understand why so many people seem to just like the old menu system. The search box means all you have to do is type in what you want to find, then arrow to it, instead of scrolling through a programs menu that is not organized alphabetically, but chronologically, which is one reason I hate the older windows start menu. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Dallas O'Brien Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 4:20 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf hi dark, its less to do with the fact that microsoft are to lazy to, but more that times have moved on, and we now have ways of doing things in a far more efitiant ways for newer computers. and as has been pointed out by people before, windows is bloated, .. well, thats come from trying to support all the old ways of doing things. so they are saying, sertain older ways of doing things will be fased out, in order to make room for the new, and especially with the newer processors and ram coming out, the old ways just do not suit anymore. anyways, yes, i would have thought it to be a better thing to create a totally new game, rather then recode an old one. but there you go. lol. perhaps make a modern day one? i think that could be cool, a modern day submarine game. mmm. dallas On 12/12/2011 01:46, dark wrote: Hi Phil. Out of interest were there any major gameplay changes associated with lone wolf version 4? while I see the point, frankly just because microsoft are too lazy to add backward compatibility into windows doesn't mean there won't be ways around, and in the case of vb applications it seems that there are already pretty solid ways of running them on windows 7, which is why developers like Jim and Aprone are writing games in vb 6 stil (and I don't mean the hole virtual system emulation mallarchy either). So personally, and not just because I'm stil running xp (my computer afterall can't last forever), I am rather more interested in what possible gameplay changes or additions version 4 might have, especially if it's being sold as a separate game. Then of course what about the 92 custom missions for the game? personally I'd be more in favour of David writing a sequal rather than a version upgrade to the game, with significant gameplay changes, and leaving lone wolf version 3 as the distinct lone wolf. beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 2:59 PM Subject: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf Hi Folks, I'm pasting a message from David about his games. - Original Message - From: GMAGames - David Greenwood davidgreenw...@rogers.com Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 2:27 PM Subject: [GMAGamesTalk] Re: Any plans for an updated Lone Wolf? Hi all, After reviewing my schedule and looking at what i have done, partially done, and what needs updates, I have decided to rewrite LoneWolf 4 from scratch. It is currently written in VB6 and it is getting the the point where it is a matter of just a couple of years before programs written in this language may not be supported. Matter of fact, the development environment no longer works in Windows 7, but if developed in Vista say, it will still run in Windows 7 and Windows 8, but Microsoft has said that it probably won't thereafter. What does this mean to you? Firstly, all the previous work on LW will be discarded, including original LW code and any changes I've made so far towards LW4 in VB6. This will extend the schedule out quite a bit. Next, due to the amount of work, LW4 will need to be purchased as a new game. If there is a credit for previous owners of the license, it would be small. In any event, LW3 will continue to be supported and key replacements will continue to be generated for people who do not upgrade. Regards, David Greenwood, davidgreenw...@gmagames.com http://www.GMAGames.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Dark, I accept that there is truth in what you say, but given that OS upgrades often address a myriad of things from security concerns to new technology, I think yours is perhaps an unfair attribution of motive. And I do have to be the meanie-head and ask, yes, and where is Amiga now? Chris Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Phil, Interesting. This sounds good though as we will get a fresh new rewrite of the program, and it looks like David Greenwood is looking at Windows 8 compatibility and beyond. This is all to the good for us, and I'm sure is well worth an upgrade fee. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Hayden, I happen to agree with you that Vista and Windows 7's start menu is superior to the XP start menu, but I think the resistance to it is simply some people don't want to change. Its the same old story, the more things change the more people stay the same. I think its safe enough to say that there is always a certain amount of people who don't want to learn new things, don't want to do things differently than they've done them for the last x number of years, and are just set in their ways. That is their choice of course, but such people will find themselves seriously behind the mainstream when their old computer finally breaks down and they have to upgrade. Such people will not be prepared for the switch because it gives them no time to get use to the changes where someone like me upgrades from version to version getting use to the changes as they are introduced rather than all at once. Cheers! On 12/11/11, Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi, One thing that gets me is how people react to the vista start menu. I don't understand why so many people seem to just like the old menu system. The search box means all you have to do is type in what you want to find, then arrow to it, instead of scrolling through a programs menu that is not organized alphabetically, but chronologically, which is one reason I hate the older windows start menu. Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
yep, and its exactly because of the backwards compatibility that we all love windows. you can run anything, on nearly anything. yes, thats changing, but it has to, at some point. dallas On 12/12/2011 08:44, Alex Kenny wrote: Hi, Actually, Microsoft goes to great lengths to ensure backward-compatibility, much more than many other tech companies. If Microsoft behaved like Apple, i can garuntee that you would not be able to run VB games on modern machines, because MS would have removed support from their OS as soon as they decided to stop supporting it. Take the Windows API, for example. It's been around since 1985, and in order to ensure compatibility, MS just continued to add functionality and hacks. Because of this, the API has become extremely bloated with some redundant functions and annoying limitations. In Windows 8, they've created a whole new API, but are still supporting the old Windows API, despite the fact that it probably adds incredible bloat and increases the complexity of the OS. Because of this, I have to disagree with you that MS doesn't care about backward-compatibility. They have many, many faults, but that's not one of them. There comes a time when backward-compatibility must be broken to allow for improvement. We had to say goodbye to the DOS command prompt, Windows 9X and 16-bit software. We will probably be saying goodbye to VB support as well. Of course, if Windows 8 is the last to support VB, you'll still have lots of time to upgrade, as Microsoft supports its operating systems for quite a while. On 12/11/11, darkd...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Alex. As I said I'm not annoyed that Microsoft update their os, they have to, even if we don't like some of their decisions on interfaces etc. it just seems though that they don't give a dam about running older programs, games or anything else, they just claime newer = better it seems without actually considdering what people want their computers for, namely to run programs. comador didn't do this with their os or machines, even with compltely new hardware, going from amigar 500 to 1200. Even the big console developers are realizing that people like running their old games, hence the wii virtual consoles, virtual arcade and other such software versions of older games stil available on modern machines. Microsoft though just seem to expect everyone to update, buy their products and cope, because newer is always better in their opinion. for myself, if i could be certain all my games and other applications would work under windows 7, I'd be much less wary about updating. I just see this as a case of not listening to the customer and doing their own dam thing and expecting everyone to cope simply because they are a big fat company who just care about the prophit. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Dark, I certainly understand why you feel the way you do about Windows compatibility issues--I'm certain most end users are likely to see things your way--but because you aren't a software developer you aren't seeing the other side of the issue. Which is simply this. First, Microsoft has a long history of maintaining backwards compatibility with older software applications and APIs long after they have passed out of mainstream use. For example, up until 1995 most processors ran on a 16-bit architecture. However, Intel's Pentium processor introduced the 32-bit architecture to the PC market and Windows 95 was the very first Windows version to support the 32-bit architecture.Microsoft could have done away with 16-bit compatibility ages ago, but the 32-bit version of Windows 7 still has 16-bit MS Dos backwards compatibility support. Its only the 64-bit version of Windows 7 that no longer has 16-bit application support, and Microsoft has plenty of good reasons to drop 16-bit support. Not the least of which is when does Microsoft reach a cut off point, say that's it, and focus their time and money supporting newer technologies? Another example is Microsoft's DirectSound API. Keep in mind that the technology was written in 1995, for PCs running Windows 95, and was written completely for a different era of hardware. Microsoft patched and maintained the API for as long as they could, but by 2005 there was so many changes in hardware it required a complete rewrite from scratch. That's when they began writing XAudio and XAudio2 which have essentially replaced DirectSound on Windows Vista and Windows 7, and offers a lot of new features that weren't available in DirectSound. Even though XAudio2 is technically the current API for audio programming on Windows. Fact of the matter is Windows Vista, Win 7, and Win 8 all come preinstalled with DirectSound 8 libraries for backwards compatibility support even though the API is considered to be deprecated. So contrary to your assertions Microsoft does try to maintain a reasonable amount of backwards compatibility support as long as its necessary and reasonable to do so. Second, is stability and other technical concerns. In order to upgrade and add new features to an operating system like Windows there usually has to be changes in the underlying APIs that can and very well may break compatibility with older software that rely on the API working exactly as it did in prior versions. This is very problematic for software developers, because they have to choose one of two methods for handling this problem. The method Microsoft has consistently chosen time and time again with their APIs is to branch or fork the API when and where possible. That's because there are sometimes changes that will break compatibility with older software and instead of choosing to break compatibility they allow two different versions of the library or API to be installed side by side with each other like we see with Microsoft's .NET Framework. While this certainly helps maintain compatibility for the long hall it gets to be confusing for developers, technical support, and of course end users who don't know the difference between one version of the API or library from another. The problem with forking an API and attempting to maintain backwards compatibility this way is that it becomes extremely bloated and successive upgrades only makes the problem worse. With Windows Vista everyone complained of poor system performance, massive slow down, and instability problems. Microsoft largely resolved these problems in Windows 7 by removing thousands of lines of code from the operating system, and by removing various libraries they felt that were no longer needed. As a result Windows 7 is both more stable and runs much more reliably than Windows Vista. It was a matter of necessity regardless of the cost to backwards compatibility. If Microsoft hadn't taken this necessary step and kept all that old code around Windows 7 would likely be as slow and unstable as Vista, because a software developer can't continue to add layer after layer of code indefinitely without degrading performance and stability. Sooner or later it becomes a necessity to clean house, and get rid of everything that isn't of primary importance. Finally, while I agree not everything Microsoft does like menu ribbons, changing the start menu, and various other changes aren't strictly necessary its usually a result of trying to be competitive. Microsoft now has to worry about competing with Apple's Mac OS operating system, and free desktop operating systems like Linux. A lot of the user interface changes we are seeing is an attempt to make their operating system look new, innovative, and set themselves apart from their competition. Plus with more advanced hardware like faster processors and 3d video cards the technology is there to add better visual effects like the 3d icons and 3d Windows arrow desktop in Windows 7. That was not possible 10
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Shaun, Um...Its not just that 16-bit support is broken, but was completely removed from 64-bit versions of Windows 7. I don't know all of Microsoft's reasoning behind it, but I can't really blame them for dropping support for 16-bit games and applications. All of that software is for Windows 95 and earlier. We can't expect Microsoft to support software that old indefinitely. Besides most of that software is so old its not worth keeping anyway. I don't think anyone in their right mind is going to go back to Word Perfect 5.1 or MS Word 2.0 when Word Perfect 12 or MS Word 2010 are more up to providing the demands of todays work place. a text only web browser like Lynx isn't up to the task of playing live audio casts and streaming videos as well as a number of other multimedia features we now consider common place. I don't know too many people who whould prefere a text only ftp client like Microsoft FTP when they have to type a command like get filename.zip when with Filezilla or another Windows FTP client they can just right click on the file and browse for a location to save. Bottom line, there really isn't a big market for those old software applications any more, and there really isn't much justification for keeping the support around outside of a few clasic Dos games like Duke Nukem or Prince of Persia. Cheers! On 12/11/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: true, 16 bit stuff is being totally broken in 64 bit versions of windows, Though 16 bit support without a real dos emulater is not that nice anyway right now. Oh well, I guess we will have to play our old games with dosemu or other dos emulator in linux then. Or an old system which I plan to get. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Alex, Yes, definitely true. I am no Microsoft fan myself, but I think people are being just a little too harsh over this issue of Visual Basic compatibility etc. Microsoft has good reasons for removing Visual Basic support even if some of us don't necessarily agree with them. Its not because they are lazy or have some sinister plan to screw everyone over. This change has been in the works since 2001, and Microsoft made it known that when .Net 1.0 and Visual Basic .NET were released Visual Basic 6 was deprecated and moved to legacy support. In 2008--a full seven years later--Microsoft officially dropped Visual Basic 6 support altogether. Its not like this all happened over night and Visual Basic 6 developers weren't put on notice. In a case like that I have to side with Microsoft because they maintained support for Visual Basic 6 long after it was deprecated and replaced by Visual Basic .NET. They also made it known that they were no longer continuing to support VB 6, and were actively recommending people switch as early as 2002/2003. If accessible game developers continued to use VB 6, ignored what was being said, etc its their own fault. They have no one to blame but themselves for not beginning to switch over to .NET years ago. I for one am happy to See David Greenwood planning to upgrade one of his games using newer APIs and programming languages rather than continue using VB 6 which was designed for a completely different era of computer hardware and software. Cheers! On 12/11/11, Alex Kenny alexkenn...@gmail.com wrote: While I'm not usually the person who will jump to Microsoft's defense, I don't think it's really fair to say they were too lazy to bother adding VB compatibility. After all, Windows 8 will still run games written in VB, but I'm guessing it will require the same tweaks that Vista and 7 do, namely registering the DirectX 8 libraries. While MS will be breaking VB support partly to force people to remove .NET, another In 1998, most people were using Windows 9X, which is an entirely different OS architecture than even Windows XP. The older code or components get, the more difficult it is to keep them working as a product evolves, and the more potential problems it can cause. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least two major Windows security problems that were the result of code that had been in Windows for several decades, most likely to maintain backward-compatibility. While I agree that MS breaking VB compatibility is going to cause huge problems in the audio games community, there are certainly technical reasons why MS is doing it beyond laziness and forcing people to upgrade. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Hayden and all, Actually, the last time I got a progress report on Lone Wolf 4.0 there were suppose to be a number of changes planned. I don't remember them all but I do remember mission creators could customize the sub, increase or decrease the number of torpedoes carried into combat, rear facing torpedo tubes, and I seem to recall a discussion about environmental conditions like storms that would effect how fast and safely you could travel in certain missions. Another feature I remember being talked about at the time was 3d audio support. The original Lone Wolf used simple 2d stereo panning, but I remember David mentioning adding 3d support like you have in GMA Tank Commander. Which would definitely be a dramatic improvement in audio output. Anyway, I'm pretty sure Lone Wolf 4.0 won't just be a rewrite of 3. It will have a bunch of new features and improvements not seen before. Of course, assuming David Greenwood sticks to the changes and planned updates he was talking about a few years ago. Cheers! On 12/11/11, Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi,I Understand the work required, but I don't understand why David would think anyone would purchase the game ifhe's simply rewriting it. I have no current plans to upgrade windows to any nonexistent version that does not allow the use of VB Code, and it sounds to me as if there are to be no changes to actual gameplay. Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf
Hi Dark, As Phil wrote a little earlier David Greenwood released a long list of changes in version 4.0 around three or four years ago. Unfortunately I can not lay my hands on that particular e-mail, but I can say a lot of the changes were pretty substantial. Its not a simple case of David just rewriting Lone Wolf 3.0 in a new programming language and calling it version 4.0. There were some definite changes he had in mind back then, and I'm sure if he wants to make version 4.0 a success he'll be certainly adding most if not all of those advertised changes in version 4.0. As to your point about work arounds for Visual Basic 6 it is true for the moment, but I've been a programmer for nearly a decade. I can say from experience that basing your code on a deprecated language and technology in the hopes it will remain compatible or will always serve your needs is never a good idea. Yeah, Visual basic support still works now, but if you have an oppertunity to rewrite using the current APIs or languages for the target platform its always a good idea to do so. There are plenty of reasons for switching. For example, when I began learning Visual Basic .NET the intro of the book I was reading did a side by side comparison between VB 6 and VB .NET. I don't have the time to explain them all here, but what the author basically did was point out various issues and real world problems VB 6 developers ran into with the language and how VB .NET addresses those issues. Its things like that an end user such as yourself wouldn't necessarily take into consideration, but a developer might well have good cause to switch from VB 6 to VB .NET. Bottom line, if Jim Kitchen, Aprone, or anyone else feels Visual Basic 6 fits there needs that's fine. However, I'm just a little tired of seeing people complain about Microsoft's decision to remove Visual Basic 6 support from Windows 7 and later versions when they don't even know Microsoft's reasons for it. Before you start calling them lazy perhaps you should consult MSDN and other resources to get Microsoft's side of the issue rather than firing off your opinions half-cocked. Its certainly not as simple or as straight forward as you make it sound. Basically, what I'm saying here is there are two sides to every issue and I think Microsoft at least deserves to be treated with respect and as professionals who know what they are doing. Cheers! On 12/11/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Phil. Out of interest were there any major gameplay changes associated with lone wolf version 4? while I see the point, frankly just because microsoft are too lazy to add backward compatibility into windows doesn't mean there won't be ways around, and in the case of vb applications it seems that there are already pretty solid ways of running them on windows 7, which is why developers like Jim and Aprone are writing games in vb 6 stil (and I don't mean the hole virtual system emulation mallarchy either). So personally, and not just because I'm stil running xp (my computer afterall can't last forever), I am rather more interested in what possible gameplay changes or additions version 4 might have, especially if it's being sold as a separate game. Then of course what about the 92 custom missions for the game? personally I'd be more in favour of David writing a sequal rather than a version upgrade to the game, with significant gameplay changes, and leaving lone wolf version 3 as the distinct lone wolf. beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
