Re: [VOTE] ORO 2.0.8 maintenance release
On Dec 23, 2003, at 5:39 PM, Daniel F. Savarese wrote: I know now may not be the best time to have a vote, but I would ask the PMC to vote on approving the release of jakarta-oro 2.0.8. The current code base contains important bug fixes and has gone too long without a public release. [ ] +1 I approve the release of jakarta-oro version 2.0.8. [ ] -1 I do not approve the release of jakarta-oro version 2.0.8. + 1 Scott Sanders - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property
+1. Gump should be community property. Scott -Original Message- From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 9:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property Gump is now two years old. It has had contributions from over a dozen people, about a half-dozen this month alone. There seems to be a renewed interest in gump (some in response to a little nudging grin). Considering all of this, what I would like to propose is that the contents of jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump get moved to jakarta-gump, all committers to any jakarta code base be given karma and voting rights on the full contents (descriptors, code, and stylesheets alike) and that a single [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing be created (we are all devs here, right?) Thoughts? - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property
I would be +1 for any apache committer. -Original Message- From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 11:33 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: [discussion] jakarta-gump as community property I like the idea of Gump becoming community property, but should it really be only for Jakarta committers? I'm thinking in particular about groups like Ant and Avalon (recently graduated into full fledged Apache projects), as well as the XML packages that Gump also watches over. - Sam Ruby Craig McClanahan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way
Just like the news had Office 10, 9, 8, and 7 will all these XML compliance features? Office 11 will be closer than anything before, but I might be inclined to drop java if what they see is the same as what they do :) Scott -Original Message- From: Dominique Devienne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 3:05 PM To: 'Jakarta General List' Subject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way Did you guys see in the news that Office 11 will have standard compliant XML schemas for Word and Excel files??? --DD -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 1:57 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: clip I don't really want or need to see Microsoft's code. What I would like to see is their file formats, protocols and APIs being documented so that other developers, open-source or otherwise, can interoperate and compete with their products clip I agree!! We're working on it, we're working on it... ( 1. http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/poifs/fileformat.html 2. http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/hssf/chart.html 3. http://sc.openoffice.org/excelfileformat.pdf ) Maybe you should lend us a hand. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way
M$ clearly has financial motives. What they are should be clarified. You are saying that as if Sun does not. Any business will ALWAYS have financial motives, and Sun is near the top of the list, along with M$. Scott -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Making distributions mirrorable
to get some load off of the apache.org machines and to save network bandwidth, we should try to get as many downloads spread to the mirrors as possible. Right now, most mirrors do not carry Jakarta distributions at all as our current directory layout forces them to use complicated rsync scripts - and to maintain those on a daily basis - just to avoid moving nightlies around. Also, because of the huge amount of stuff in the jakarta web space. There is a document that describes where releases should be located to make the mirrors happy. Furthermore we will make our users happy if all Apache releases follow a similar naming and URL concept. See http://www.apache.org/dev/mirrors.html. We've moved the latest Ant release during the last few days and I've put together a step-by-step guide of what I've done http://cvs.apache.org/~bodewig/mirror.html. If you want to move your project's distributions to the correct download locations (please do) and need a hand, feel free to contact me. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the correct list for more general questions ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). On the infrastructure list, this is being discussed if you are interested. The biggest win is with the Tomcat stuff, based on sheer amount of bandwidth. I will be taking care of the commons distributions. If you would like to help, just give me a shout. Thanks, Scott -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Linux Magazine article
Is any of this true? Was Jboss rejected from joining Apache? No, Jboss was not rejected from Jakarta. IIRC, they wanted to join and jakarta said 'can we digest what we have first?', and jboss said, 'no thanks', and then switched to LGPL. Or something like that :) Scott -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
[INVITATION] community@apache.org
(content was authored by Stefano M) Ladies and Gentlemen, the ASF is happy to present the creation of +--+ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | +--+ the first ASF-wide mail list created to talk, discuss, propose, meet, collaborate with all the ASF committers, no matter what project or community they are involved with. This mail list will be closed to committers only, the citizens of the Apache Software Foundation, and will serve as the place to talk about the future of the foundation. [EMAIL PROTECTED] will replace [EMAIL PROTECTED] as the need for 'reorganization' of the ASF turned out to be a much more deeper issue about lack of communication between the various ASF communities. You might wonder why we can't use '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' for those discussions: well, Apache gives power to those who volunteer, it doesn't impose things. So, we give you a choice to partecipate in that effort to shape the future of Apache, or to ignore the issue alltogether (but then, accept the choices that were done!) If you think there is something wrong that jakarta.apache.org and xml.apache.org host 70% of the code the ASF owns but have only 20% of the ASF members, subscribe there and help us fix this. If you wished there was more synergy between the various ASF communities, show us how you'd make it happening. On [EMAIL PROTECTED] is where discussions about new projects creations (like Apache Commons, Apache Incubator, Apache Graveyard) will take place. [EMAIL PROTECTED] will be where the 'architecture', the 'development' of the foundation itself is done. So, if you think you have good idea on how to run the show better, on how to make ASF even better than what it is today, subscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] by sending email to ++ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | ++ Oh, one favor: please subscribe with your @apache.org address (or @php.net address for PHP committers) so that list moderators don't have to scan thru the committers list to find out if you are a committer or not. You can even use the ezmlm trick [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you are sending this from another account. Ah, one last thing: Apache doesn't impose things, but it *does* make decisions based on a meritocratic consensus. It's up to you to partecipate but please be aware of the fact that decision taken on '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' will serve as proposals later ratified by the ASF board and *those* will be enforced. So, we give you the opportunity to partecipate in the making of the future of the foundation, but no complain will be accepted if what comes up doesn't fit your needs or doesn't make you happy and you didn't partecipate in its process. You have been invited and warned. Now it's up to you. Scott Sanders Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. - Antoine de Saint-Exupery -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
RE: JASon 0.5 proposal
For the most information see: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html You are LGPL residing at savannah. What is wrong with that? Also, how are you the same/different from Avalon and Turbine already at Jakarta? How many developers do you have? Scott Sanders -Original Message- From: Alexandre Brillant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 6:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: JASon 0.5 proposal Hello, I would like to propose you a new jakarta project : JASon located at http://www.djefer.com/~aws. JASon is a container for general server services. It tries to simplify the cooperation between each service through a common API. By default this API is tied to XML, it tries to describe a service with XML and associate it in a common cooperation domain. For the moment JASon isn't very mature (version 0.5), but I think the concept is an interesting one with the purpose to let the user builds its own application server loading services as needed. The last version supports for load balancing between processes and threads. I have included a little servlet engine, a web server and a little administration console for changing a service state. JASon is an OpenSource project under LGPL, it is available on savannah : http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/jason. Thank you Alexandre -- Alexandre Brillant Ingénieur Indépendant Java/XML/Linux http://www.djefer.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [VOTE] Switching development to C#
You guys have your laugh now. It is only a matter of time before Apache is hosting a C# subproject like Jakarta. Scott (understanding the joke, but not laughing) -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 10:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [VOTE] Switching development to C# And I'd like to thank Sam Ruby for showing me the light. Any plans to port Maven to C#? -Andy Marc wrote: Having become convinced by Andy that C# and .NET are the wave of the future, I'm proposing that we switch poi development to C#. To the Jakarta community at large: will this affect our status as a Jakarta project? I mean, I can see where a lot of projects are eventually going to follow this same path ... Marc -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Comments on the commons-logging API
-Original Message- From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] I never suspected (nor suggested) that commons-logging effort was dishonorable in any way. My contention is that it will make life harder not easier. Nothing more, nothing less. I think it may make life harder for the commons, Log4J, and LogKit teams, but I have already seen it make life easier for users of jakarta products. Digester used to have its own configuration mechanism, and it used to System.out.println() all *logging* information. Try using that in a server framework and see how fast you get angry when everything else uses Log4J. OK, so if Digester uses Log4J, now see how fast all the LogKit zealots will refuse to use it. Commons-logging was a way to plug into logging frameworks without dictating any of them. The main point IMHO was to remove System.out.println() calls. It happened to end up usefully wrapping all logging impls IMHO. That is a win for everyone. If we have problems with interoperability (and we will), we fix them. Yes, someone has to ultimately dictate the logger to use. As a commons developer, I do not want to force that choice onto anyone. Let them decide. Scott Sanders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: JavaOne Jakarta Gathering
I will be there. Scott -Original Message- From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 3:02 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: JavaOne Jakarta Gathering Just so it has a new subject... Current plan : OK, we need to make a decision, pronto! Let's meet at 21st Amendment (563 2nd Street) at 7:30pm on Monday. We can take the rest from there. Martin. -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting We will be judged not by the monuments we build, but by the monuments we destroy - Ada Louise Huxtable -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: POI nightly builds and upcoming release howto
I am happy to help with that, and I have even set my umask ;-) Scott -Original Message- From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:30 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: POI nightly builds and upcoming release howto On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:22, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: How do we get nightly builds/source releases happening and posting? http://jakarta.apache.org/site/binindex.html Ask Sam nicely to update his cron job to do that for you. Once we release how do we get the release put up: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/binindex.html in the appropriate place. Once you have signed the release, generated the HEADER.html to describe your release then you upload it all to the directory /www/jakarta.apache.org/builds/jakarta-poi/releases/1.5/ on codejakarta.apache.org/code. If no one has permission to do that then you can ask for permission or get someone else to do it. -- Cheers, Pete -- - | I thought there was a knob on the TV to turn up the intelligence. | | There's a knob called brightness, but it doesn't work. | -- - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: POI nightly builds and upcoming release howto
I am happy to set up the daedalus release directory. I have not cloned the real Sam Ruby in any way ;-) Scott -Original Message- From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 3:48 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: RE: POI nightly builds and upcoming release howto Scott Sanders wrote: I am happy to help with that, and I have even set my umask ;-) I'm intrigued. Do you have a logon to my machine that I don't know about? ;-) Actually, what I would like to do is to migrate from my hand crafted cron scripts to something that is generated from the project descriptors. I'm also contemplating moving the hosting of these to either nagoya.apache.org or gump.covalent.net. - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: update POI web
I will do this now. Apologies to everyone. Scott -Original Message- From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: update POI web on 2/28/02 4:54 AM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried to do it but someone *sough* sanders *cough* needs to change thier umask because they updated your website and forgot to make it world writeable ;) Not 'world' writeable...it should be 'group' writeable. Scott, put this in your .tcshrc (or whatever shell you use)... umask 002 -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: update POI web
Done. Sorry Andrew. Scott -Original Message- From: Scott Sanders Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 9:23 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: RE: update POI web I will do this now. Apologies to everyone. Scott -Original Message- From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: update POI web on 2/28/02 4:54 AM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried to do it but someone *sough* sanders *cough* needs to change thier umask because they updated your website and forgot to make it world writeable ;) Not 'world' writeable...it should be 'group' writeable. Scott, put this in your .tcshrc (or whatever shell you use)... umask 002 -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Re: ApacheForge
-Original Message- From: acoliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: ApacheForge Just FYI There is also the traffic issue. If you have an active project, sourceforge automatically publicizes the project on the front page. Although, alternative hosting was available for POI this was too valuable to pass up. (I have my own server www.superlinksoftware.com where POI started out) -Andy But Forrest will take care of that ;-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Scott Sanders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Nominations, +1s, ...
Number 4. As little process as possible. Scott -Original Message- From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 9:22 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Nominations, +1s, ... On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Santiago Gala wrote: I'm ready to give +1 to people nominated which are missing them, but I could not find any posting telling if +1 are required, or are just to be considered a form of moral support. Could anybody clarify? Personally: I do not care much for seconding - just that the person accepts - simple voting is the true test in my personal opinion. And in a crowd as vocal as this I trust that issues are raised in time to make sure that seconding is non essential filtering mechanism. But that is a personal opinion - not the nessesarily shared by the voting volunteers opinion of that of the board or pmc. So for next time 2003 - you have some options. 1-No seconding needed - just acceptance. 2-One seconding needed - and acceptance counts as such too. 3-More than one needed. 4-None needed - except to override a veto.. 5. Dw. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Nominations, +1s, ...
#4 plus acceptance then? I would have assumed that acceptance is implied, but that is just me ;-) Scott -Original Message- From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 2:02 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Nominations, +1s, ... On 2/12/02 4:45 PM, Scott Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Number 4. As little process as possible. Disagree - I think requiring acceptance by the candidate is better, as then we can't 'force' someone onto the PMC when they aren't looking :) Scott -Original Message- From: Dirk-Willem van Gulik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 9:22 AM [SNIP] So for next time 2003 - you have some options. 1-No seconding needed - just acceptance. 2-One seconding needed - and acceptance counts as such too. 3-More than one needed. 4-None needed - except to override a veto.. 5. -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting The question is : What is a Mahnamahna? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Re: Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!
Most of the Mono Ximian crowd is in Boston IIRC. Give them a shout. Scott -Original Message- From: acoliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 8:01 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved! On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:48:28 -0500 Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote. Andrew C Oliver wrote: A few links: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2002/02/04/mono.html http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23919.html http://www.ximian.com/devzone/projects/mono.html http://www.gnu.org/projects/dotgnu/ http://www.halcyonsoft.com/news/javadotnet.asp I was aware of this. Bottom line: Port C# to Linux and then I'll at least look at it. Until then C# is on my heck no list. (Sorry) Obviously you didn't follow the links. I've reduced the set this time. I'll eat my words. Damn, I just agreed to try C#. Schisse, Ich glaube dass nicht! It might be fun one day to create a C#-mono port of POInot right now though...very busy. BTW I'll be offline next week. Goin to Boston (actually NH, but flying into Boston). Anyone in Boston? -Andy - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Java is dead... but it could still be saved!
Stefano, you are right on the mark as usual. As soon as a java2c# porting tool is available, the hordes will probably be moving on... -Original Message- From: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 8:25 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Java is dead... but it could still be saved! Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 2/4/02 1:58 PM, Kevin A. Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I created the java-is-dead mailing list to address these issues. Note that this mailing list is a place to help fix things. The java-is-dead mailing list is for people who love Java but are *very* concerned. The only people who can fix these things is Sun. This mailing list sounds like a black hole and these types of politics usually don't work against Sun (neither do online polls)... The way to get Sun's attention is to corner them into a hole and then pound on their head for a few years. Then, if you are lucky, you might get them to concede on an issue or two so that only you will be happy. In case you didn't notice, Sun might go out of business as soon as a couple of years: if even Oracle says that bigiron is dead, Google and yahoo run on huge though inexpensive clusters of pc clones, Dual G4 machines are starting to beat the pants out of Sun boxes and run unix where the hell is Sun going to earn its money from? yep, you guessed it right: Java. They dropped the ball for java on the desktop: sun management decided that it will never happen: there will be no Java version of StarOffice. So they want to earn money on the other two sides: big - enterprise (J2EE) small - embedded (J2ME) why? simple: these are the things that pay off and these are the things that go along better with Sun core business: which is hardware (both big fat machines and silicon chips). Now: is Sun going to change this because Mr. Burtonator cries on his own mail list? yeah, sure. Unless he has a few 10 billion dollars to invest in Sun to open up java. Sun can't start selling JDK's, otherwise people will switch to .NET (or OSS clones of it, see Ximian MONO), but it sure can stop improve on it (after 1.4 is out) and give away for free *normal* java implementations and sell better/faster/more-scalable JVMs (which is what M$ will be doing with .NET) You can be sure Sun has a lot to learn from M$ on the marketing-software side of things. Yep, people, Java is turning into legacy for most corporations: they'd rather spend some thousand dollars in new software (which will run on sparc only, of course) than spend millions in retraining people, porting software to .NET and blah blah blah. Where does OSS stand? We have been *used* to make java solid. Now things are changed: they think they don't need us anymore because Java is a commercial reality. That's the truth and you'd better learn it fast. My position: give me a solid (possibly GPL-ed) CLI implementation, a Java2C# porting tool, a BSD-licensed library of .NET classes and java-cloning classes and I say let's kiss java good bye. Interesting enough, this is where Ximian is leading. Or we wait for another mozilla-like miracle. Anyway people: be ready to jump off the train, we are approaching the cliff at full speed. -- Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Friedrich Nietzsche -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan
+1. Craig is good, sometimes too good :) Scott -Original Message- From: Morgan Delagrange [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 2:17 PM To: General Jakarta Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: PMC Nomination - Craig McClanahan I would like to nominate Craig McClanahan for re-election to the PMC. Craig works on a lot more projects than I do (than _most_ people do), so I cannot give a complete rundown of his accomplishments. I can say, however, that his excellent and informed contributions to Commons, to Taglibs, and to numerous mailing lists prove his value to the community. - Morgan Delagrange _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Fwd: cvs commit: jakarta-site2/xdocs index.xml]
-Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Fwd: cvs commit: jakarta-site2/xdocs index.xml] On Wed, 2002-01-30 at 19:54, Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 2002.1.30 4:15 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My only issue and I guess this is directed more at you Jon, is it doesn't give me a clear idea about what we want. Can you give me a good idea and I'll be glad to submit a patch to that effect. It just seems like we should be asking for something and being specific. -Andy That is a very good point. However, privately, Sun knows exactly what we want. There is still some stuff that goes on behind the scenes around here that unfortunately isn't exposed. Needless to say, discussions about opening some of that up (including posting what we want to the public site) are going on now. For starters: I think the J2EE stuff should be under at least the same license as the rest of the JDK. Personally I'm having a hard time getting particularly in uproar as I think the central core of J2EE - Enterprise Java Beans is such a poor standard, that I'm not particularly upset that its not *free*. I should not say these things publicly, as I still have to work in these things, but in truth EJB and particularly Entity beans is a less that elegant kludge. In truth J2EE is kind of a scam. It claims to be aiming for compatibility and universality but the truth is the vendors play too big of a role in it. They want to have lots of room for proprietary extensions. Its market one thing but actually sell another. I'd rather see someone come up with an opensource standard that achieves the goals of EJBs without being limited by its faulty design and backward compatibility with its original faultier design. Just my humble opinion on that. Check out AJB in Avalon. http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=avalon-apps-devm=101158982807771w=2 Uses AltRMI from the Commons to achieve RMI with extending Remote or throwing remote exception. Now you can publish any class/interface remotely... Cheers, Scott -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
PMC Nomination - Scott Sanders
I would like to nominate Scott Sanders (myself) for the PMC election. Who I am: I am a developer with 10 years of experience. I got my first taste of Open Source Software with JServ 0.9, and helped (albeit very little) with Jserv as a lurker/non-committer. I use/have used Apache products everyday in my development of various projects. My current focus is on building the Commons community to have a large library of reusable components for my own development work. I am also working on a proposal for the re-birth of Alexandria, and have some thoughts on how to make James an 'Exchange Killer'. I am not being paid to work at jakarta, and I am happy to help build the community. What I want to accomplish: Jon, Sam, and Stefano are my open source 'idols'. I respect what each of them have done for Jakarta and Apache as a whole. I would like to follow in the gigantic footsteps of Sam in helping to increase inter-project communication and cooperation. This can only help to increase the Apache community in general, and the Jakarta community specifically. I would also like to continue Sam's work in the cooperation with the xml.apache.org community. Part of the community building is having some way of finding code within Apache. I look forward to helping improve the jakarta community, Scott Sanders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: PMC Nomination - Paulo Gaspar
HUGE +1. He has the biggest mouth I have heard in a long time, and an excellent outsiders viewpoint. Scott Sanders -Original Message- From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 12:56 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: PMC Nomination - Paulo Gaspar Paulo is an individual who uses a rather large portion of the code that we have been producing. He has experienced first hand the pains that are inflicted on the consumers of our software when decisions are made based on the rampant subproject rivalry that continues to exist. Throughout it all he has never been one to hold back his opinions. Whether or not Paulo is elected to the PMC this round or not, it is my sincere hope that Paulo make the choice to get more directly involved in the subprojects he cares about, and becomes a committer. - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: PMC Nomination - Paulo Gaspar
:) I know. I was referring to the size of Paulo's as-of-yet contribution to what Jakarta can become :) Scott -Original Message- From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 1:05 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: RE: PMC Nomination - Paulo Gaspar Scott Sanders wrote: HUGE +1. I'm sorry, but just because you have been nominated to the PMC doesn't mean that your vote is any bigger than anyone else's around here. :-P - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: PMC Nomination - Paulo Gaspar
You mean that you accept? (You need to accept or decline) -Original Message- From: Paulo Gaspar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 2:01 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: RE: PMC Nomination - Paulo Gaspar Now I am speechless! (Never happened before as you well know!) Have fun, Paulo -Original Message- From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 9:56 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: PMC Nomination - Paulo Gaspar Paulo is an individual who uses a rather large portion of the code that we have been producing. He has experienced first hand the pains that are inflicted on the consumers of our software when decisions are made based on the rampant subproject rivalry that continues to exist. Throughout it all he has never been one to hold back his opinions. Whether or not Paulo is elected to the PMC this round or not, it is my sincere hope that Paulo make the choice to get more directly involved in the subprojects he cares about, and becomes a committer. - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [Fwd: cvs commit: jakarta-site2/xdocs index.xml]
Why is that? -Original Message- From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Fwd: cvs commit: jakarta-site2/xdocs index.xml] I'm not comfortable with carrying this type of editorial matter at the top of the home page, and would like to move it to the news and status page. -Ted. Original Message Subject: cvs commit: jakarta-site2/xdocs index.xml Date: 30 Jan 2002 21:53:04 - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jakarta WebSite CVS List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jon 02/01/30 13:53:04 Modified:docs index.html xdocsindex.xml Log: lets have a little fun. Revision ChangesPath 1.52 +32 -0 jakarta-site2/docs/index.html Index: index.html === RCS file: /home/cvs/jakarta-site2/docs/index.html,v retrieving revision 1.51 retrieving revision 1.52 diff -u -r1.51 -r1.52 --- index.html 29 Jan 2002 01:47:06 - 1.51 +++ index.html 30 Jan 2002 21:53:03 - 1.52 @@ -140,6 +140,38 @@ table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2 width=100% trtd bgcolor=#525D76 font color=#ff face=arial,helvetica,sanserif + a name=That flaming fireball in the sky...strongThat flaming fireball in the sky.../strong/a +/font + /td/tr + trtd +blockquote +p +In a recent a href=http://www.theserverside.com/resources/article.jsp?l=Sun Interviewarticle/a, Karen Tegan, Director of J2EE Compatibility and Platform +Services for Sun Microsystems, had the following to say: +/p +p +The J2EE Compatible brand has achieved significant momentum over the +past two years, and we want to make sure that any open source efforts +don't impact the viability of that effort. +/p +p +In other words, Sun doesn't give a hoot about whether J2EE licensing +restricts open source J2EE products (in case you missed it, it does). +Thus, the Apache Software Foundation's involvement in the Java Community +Process (JCP) is simply an advertising statement for Sun to claim that +they have a 'vision which uses open standards and non-proprietary +interfaces'. If you would like to express your opinions of Sun's +licensing terms, feel free to contact a href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED];[EMAIL PROTECTED]/a and let us know what you +think. Thanks. +/p +/blockquote +/p + /td/tr + trtdbr//td/tr +/table +table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2 width=100% + trtd bgcolor=#525D76 +font color=#ff face=arial,helvetica,sanserif a name=WelcomestrongWelcome/strong/a /font /td/tr 1.21 +28 -0 jakarta-site2/xdocs/index.xml Index: index.xml === RCS file: /home/cvs/jakarta-site2/xdocs/index.xml,v retrieving revision 1.20 retrieving revision 1.21 diff -u -r1.20 -r1.21 --- index.xml 20 Jan 2002 16:28:07 - 1.20 +++ index.xml 30 Jan 2002 21:53:03 - 1.21 @@ -9,6 +9,34 @@ body +section name=That flaming fireball in the sky... +p +In a recent a +href=http://www.theserverside.com/resources/article.jsp?l=Su nInterview + +article/a, Karen Tegan, Director of J2EE Compatibility and Platform +Services for Sun Microsystems, had the following to say: +/p + +p +The J2EE Compatible brand has achieved significant momentum over the +past two years, and we want to make sure that any open source efforts +don't impact the viability of that effort. +/p + +p +In other words, Sun doesn't give a hoot about whether J2EE licensing +restricts open source J2EE products (in case you missed it, it does). +Thus, the Apache Software Foundation's involvement in the Java Community +Process (JCP) is simply an advertising statement for Sun to claim that +they have a 'vision which uses open standards and non-proprietary +interfaces'. If you would like to express your opinions of Sun's +licensing terms, feel free to contact a +href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED];[EMAIL PROTECTED]/a and let us know what you +think. Thanks. +/p + +/section + section name=Welcome !-- ApacheCon is over. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To
RE: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta??
Comments inline... -Original Message- From: Endre Stølsvik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 4:02 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta?? | What's the point? | | They will still always be separate communities in separate CVS | repositories. | | Let me put it another way : what problem are we trying to solve? Me coming to the front page and trying to understand what Jakarta is all about. Browsing it.. Reading about all the cool technologies that's in there. SUBMIT A PATCH!!! | | That people have trouble finding out what's here? That's something we | need to address on the website, I think. Yes. | | | 2) If a guy that's already within Jakarta decides that he'll make a | nice, thight, _small_ little library, it seems like getting it into | Jakarta just takes a cvs commit. Even top level. | | No way. I'm a guy in Jakarta. I have commit privs to Velocity, | Commons and a small section of Turbine, and the main site, IIRC. | That's it. I was kind of kidding there. But it does look like it's easy to get a project accepted at Jakarta if you already have some control over the community. Not really, there are guidelines, and that is but one. [..] | The point is that even as part of the 'management committee' of | jakarta, I have no special privs. And I think that is the right way, | BTW. I basically try to point out that I think this isn't the case now.. People from the outside is met with a very hostile attitude if they ask whether this or that project could interest/supplement Apache/Jakarta, while people (or.. Jon?) on the inside says yo, dudes, what about me stuffing this little lib toplevel onto jakarta?.. Ok, that's 5 minutes response time, it's now in place. What did jon stuff into the top level? Do you understand that ECS is on of the OLDEST projects here at Jakarta, that was started with Jserv at java.apache.org, and moved to jakarta to avoid trademark issues with the java name? No one just stuffed it in. Where you here when this happened? I have been lurking in the java-apache space since early 1998, and I can say that the community back then was MUCH smaller. | While if fantastically cool projects | that are outside of Jakarta wants to get in, it's about impossible. | | Come on. This year we started Commons and added Lucene, BCEL, POI. How much cooler isn't the idea of POI compared to ECS? BCEL? And how much more hassle and stress did the POI dudes have to go through, compared to ECS? That is up to the person you ask. Someone from Avalon would probably say Avalon is most important. I would actually say that ANT is the most important. I am not even a committer there. Others would say Tomcat. Even others from the old days would say that Jserv is the most important. Point is that nothing is 'cooler' than anything else, only on a person by person basis. | What 'fantastically cool projects' want to get in? BCEL and POI are the ones I'm especcialy pointing towards here. Are they not in? I think that they are :) | (Corollary (?!): Jon Stevens' vote is about 10 times bigger than | everybody elses.) | | Nope. Some of us just tend to listen to him... I know. Because he has actually been involved here pratically forever!!! I will always hear Jon, Pier, Stefano and now Sam no matter what they have to say. They have earned my respect. That does NOT mean I WILL follow them, only that I will try to understand what they are saying. They tend to be right a lot of the time. With that said I also must say that sometimes I completely disagree with Jon, but that is my right as well. As a complement to this: how is the deprecating system of Jakarta? If a project dies, that nobody seems to update it, the list dies or something like this, does it die away from Jakarta too? What would you like to see happen? Should we wipe the site with something that has no activity? Should Jserv die because the last release was forever ago? I think not. Jserv is a production server that lives in many production sites. Try finding a java web hoster that uses something other than Jserv. What is your patch to the problem? Looking forward to your PATCH. Scott Sanders -- Mvh, Endre -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta??
Calendar is much more apropos in JAMES IMHO. I think that JAMES could become an Exchange killer :) -Original Message- From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 7:26 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta?? On 1/22/02 9:02 AM, Jeff Prickett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As we speak I am trying to restart the calendar effort. I think that I have a point to make here in this forum. First a lot of these sub-projects are spun off from other projects iCalendar originally started in Jetspeed. The same is true for Torque and Fulcrum. They started in Turbine. And they still are in Turbine. They are subsections of Turbine that are managed by the Turbine community. We have the same thing in Velocity with the DVSL and -tools projects. One reason calendar died is because, there is no community around it. It was just me contributing to jetspeed. One of my first goals as a developer with calendar this time is to get more people involved. It is not that easy. I know you are trying to boot this as a top-level project. Would starting to get a core community be easier if you went back to Jetspeed and made it a subproject there (like -torque, -fulcrum, -stratum in Turbine and -dvsl, -tools in Velocity, and - in Avalon) -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting Be a giant. Take giant steps. Do giant things... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta??
Yes. I have been thinking that Exchange needs an OSS competitor. I can plug in WebDAV support and then right some plugins for Outlook and voila, the user would never know the difference. How's that for reducing TCO? Welcome to Jakarta BTW. Having done the whole writing Excel Files in Unix thing (BIFF4 back in 1992!), I respect what you have done! Scott -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 11:16 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: RE: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta?? h yummy. I've GOT to check out JAMES... -Andy On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 14:11, Scott Sanders wrote: Calendar is much more apropos in JAMES IMHO. I think that JAMES could become an Exchange killer :) -Original Message- From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 7:26 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta?? On 1/22/02 9:02 AM, Jeff Prickett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As we speak I am trying to restart the calendar effort. I think that I have a point to make here in this forum. First a lot of these sub-projects are spun off from other projects iCalendar originally started in Jetspeed. The same is true for Torque and Fulcrum. They started in Turbine. And they still are in Turbine. They are subsections of Turbine that are managed by the Turbine community. We have the same thing in Velocity with the DVSL and -tools projects. One reason calendar died is because, there is no community around it. It was just me contributing to jetspeed. One of my first goals as a developer with calendar this time is to get more people involved. It is not that easy. I know you are trying to boot this as a top-level project. Would starting to get a core community be easier if you went back to Jetspeed and made it a subproject there (like -torque, -fulcrum, -stratum in Turbine and -dvsl, -tools in Velocity, and - in Avalon) -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting Be a giant. Take giant steps. Do giant things... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- www.superlinksoftware.com www.sourceforge.net/projects/poi - port of Excel format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555 .html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta??
Innovation is necessary. But duplication is also necessary for the purpose of adoption. The only way to beat Exchange is to look like Exchange. The innovation will then help, but only after the user thinks that it *is* Exchange. Scott -Original Message- From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta?? on 1/29/02 11:54 AM, lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 14:22, Scott Sanders wrote: Yes. I have been thinking that Exchange needs an OSS competitor. Yes yes yes yes yes. Why would anyone want to create an OSS competitor of a piece of sh*t? Let's innovate, not duplicate. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta??
So then start the base code in the commons, and create impls in Jetspeed and James that use the base. Scott -Original Message- From: Jeff Prickett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 11:10 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta?? Scott Sanders wrote: Calendar is much more apropos in JAMES IMHO. I think that JAMES could become an Exchange killer :) Good point, I would accept that place as a home for the back end objects. Possibly split iCalendar between JAMES and Jetspeed or make it its own module that plugs in to either. Front end - Jetspeed, Back end JAMES. I would like to see Apache create an Exchange killer, but that talk is premature :). Jeff Prickett snip Rest of converstion -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta??
The user *must* still be able to use Outlook, security holes and all. Once the IT dept can replace Exchange on the back end, then the innovation starts to show... -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta?? On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 15:08, Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 1/29/02 11:54 AM, lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 14:22, Scott Sanders wrote: Yes. I have been thinking that Exchange needs an OSS competitor. Yes yes yes yes yes. Why would anyone want to create an OSS competitor of a piece of sh*t? + 1/2 I think achieving interoperability with the clients would be good. Basically a drop-inable replacement that is *better*. I like the calendar thing in excel et al...I'd never actually use it unless forced because I've got my palm (and yes I don't actually care about synchronizing it because I never use that info on my PC or if I do its less convenient to synch then type). My issue is the places I typically work if I could sell a drop in replacement for Exchange...heck yeah cause then I wouldn't be forced to use that spamming virus ridden security hole and would be able to pick my own email client instead of often being forced into one. -Andy Let's innovate, not duplicate. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- www.superlinksoftware.com www.sourceforge.net/projects/poi - port of Excel format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555 .html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta??
-Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:14 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: RE: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta?? On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 15:13, Scott Sanders wrote: The user *must* still be able to use Outlook, security holes and all. Once the IT dept can replace Exchange on the back end, then the innovation starts to show... Thats what I meant. I just meant to say being interoperable with doesn't mean you have to suck too. ;-) Yes. Exactly. snip/ Scott -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta??
My goal is NOT to target other developers. My goal is to target users that *HAVE* to have exchange because they: 1) *HAVE* to use Outlook. 2) *HAVE* to have real groupware capabilities (calendaring, etc.) 3) Refuse to give up Outlook for a web-based impl. The users will change if they don't know that the change happened. Then things like Evolution and other clients can plug into an OSS impl. Scott -Original Message- From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta?? on 1/29/02 12:07 PM, Scott Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Innovation is necessary. But duplication is also necessary for the purpose of adoption. The only way to beat Exchange is to look like Exchange. The innovation will then help, but only after the user thinks that it *is* Exchange. Scott What makes you think that a MIS manager is going to install an OSS Jakarta technology over just installing Exchange? If your goal is to target other developers, then why use Exchange at all when there are better solutions out there? See my point? -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta??
And IBM *was* a monopoly for a reason. Time has a way of changing things. I firmly believe that Outlook is the major reason that Linux is not on the desktop. But that is just my opinion. Scot -Original Message- From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 12:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta?? on 1/29/02 12:06 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My issue is the places I typically work if I could sell a drop in replacement for Exchange...heck yeah cause then I wouldn't be forced to use that spamming virus ridden security hole and would be able to pick my own email client instead of often being forced into one. -Andy What makes you think that you could actually do that? M$ is a monopoly for a reason. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: AW: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta??
No worries. Scott -Original Message- From: Sven Ewert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 1:47 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: AW: AW: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta?? sorry guys, ive not followed all threads and answerd to fast. :o) c ya --- sven (e)wert !!! ___ ()_() ` _ _ ' _*_ (o o) - (OXO) - (o o) ooO--`o'--Ooo-ooO--(_)--Ooo--8---(_)--Ooo- (¯`·.¸(¯`·.¸ I`ll greetz you ¸.·´¯)¸.·´¯) - -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- - Von: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] - Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. Januar 2002 22:33 - An: Jakarta General List - Betreff: Re: AW: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta?? - - - Dude, these are all clients. We're talking about EXCHANGE not - OUTLOOK or MAILBOX. I'm using evolution right this very moment. It - doesn't do what you say...its not a server AFAIK! It could connect - to JAMES and hopefully USE the features...but doesn't provide them - serverside. - - -Andy - - On Tue, 2002-01-29 at 16:34, Sven Ewert wrote: - - -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- - - Von: lloyd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] - - Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. Januar 2002 22:19 - - An: Jakarta General List - - Betreff: Re: ECS?? _TOP_ level project of Jakarta?? - - - - - - - - If your goal is to target other developers, then why use - - Exchange at all - - when there are better solutions out there? - - - - Such as...? - - - - With calendaring support? - - with calendaring: http://www.ximian.com/products/ximian_evolution/ - - without calendaring: - http://www.washington.edu/pine/ http://www.instinct.org/elm/ - http://www.mutt.org/ - - :o) - AND YEZ I WAS SENDIG THIS MAIL WITH OUTLOOK (in the headder) - hehehe. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - For additional commands, e-mail: - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- sven (e)wert !!! ___ ()_() ` _ _ ' _*_ (o o) - (OXO) - (o o) ooO--`o'--Ooo-ooO--(_)--Ooo--8---(_)--Ooo- (¯`·.¸(¯`·.¸ I`ll greetz you ¸.·´¯)¸.·´¯) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- www.superlinksoftware.com www.sourceforge.net/projects/poi - port of Excel format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/448755 5.html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Gump as a TLP
From what is happening at general@xml, it looks like gump is moving to be with Forrest over at xml.apache.org. Sam will correct me if I am wrong. Whether it is its own project (IMHO Sam is right for not doing this, because of the (lack of) developer community) or it is in alexandria (IMHO it should become Alexandria) or it lives within Forrest at xml.apache, I think that it should always be available as a standalone tool. Scott Sanders -Original Message- From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 10:29 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Gump as a TLP TLP = top level project Given that Gump has a website as: jakarta.apache.rog/gump Given that Gump is listed in the side nav on the Jakarta site. I think that it should also live in its own CVS tree as jakarta-gump instead of hidden as a 'proposal' in the Jakarta alexandria project. Sam? -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: updating subproject websites
-Original Message- From: robert burrell donkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 11:35 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: updating subproject websites On Monday, January 14, 2002, at 12:07 AM, Peter Donald wrote: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:17, robert burrell donkin wrote: On Sunday, January 13, 2002, at 10:00 PM, Peter Donald wrote: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:50, robert burrell donkin wrote: i find jakarta-site2.html a little bit confusing. so - as requested on the page - i'm providing some feedback :) i think i find it confusing since it's aimed at answering several questions all in one page. maybe it'd be better to organize it as a base page with separate pages for each of these questions. i think that the questions they want answered are: As soon as you send a patch to make it so it may get done ;) i still don't know the definitive answer to my question - which was (i know that it was easy to miss in that last mail) what's the right way to update the web pages for a standard sub project. therefore a patch would be a little premature... You described it in a relatively clear fashion so I figured you knew :) More precisely it goes something like 1. generate documentation (project specific though most use anakia) 2. commit to CVS 3. SSH to jakarta.apache.org 4. cd /www/jakarta.apache.org/mySubProject 5. cvs up 6 Make sure that you have the correct permissions set for all the files you updated I believe the admins were trying to reduce the number of people with access to jakarta box so if you don't have permission to do 3 then just bug someone in the project who does or drop a note here and someone will update for you. worked great. thanks peter :) there was one wrinkle - i needed to do a cvs login (and for some reason create a .cvspass file in my home directory on jakarta.apache.org) i suppose that now i owe you that site document patch... - robert That is because anoncvs requires a password. Note that only happens the FIRST time you update the website. Scott -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage
Come over and vote on it now. It has been proposed and has about 7 +1s so far... Scott -Original Message- From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 6:14 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:05, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Consider this - how many committers are there in commons atm - 10, 20, 30 ? Now to get a new project moved you need a 3/4 vote - lets be generous and say about 12 votes! That seems real likely. And we are looking at changing that we recognize that is starting to become a hurdle. Things change. Things evolve. We learn. kool. Then you have the joy that every commons committer has voting rights on everything - even code they have never contributed and never will - sounds like a great meritocracy - right? M, just the sort of thing we are meant to be promoting. I also agree - I am uncomfortable with that, and have been from day one. To be fair though, it hasn't resulted in any huge problems yet. It never does until the first problem - when this changes and this evolves you will have another active developer. Wanna propose a vote on commons? Technically I believe am a committer and could even +1 it :) -- Cheers, Pete Frank Zappa observed: It's not getting any smarter out there.You have to come to terms with stupidity, and make it work for you. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: email issues..
I did reply to him. I told him that no License issues would prevent it, but to just let people know that he was doing it. Scott Sanders -Original Message- From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 9:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FW: email issues.. Someone want to reply to this person directly? -jon -- Forwarded Message From: Eitan Suez [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:43:09 -0600 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: email issues.. hi, i suspect that a recent attempt to block out spam on my mail server might have inadvertantly blocked out legitimate correspondence. if you have tried to reply to my last email, i did not receive it. i believe the problem is fixed now. i apologize for the inconvenience. sincerely, / eitan suez -Original Message- From: Eitan Suez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 10:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: publishing question.. Hi Jon, i visited the apache preFAQ at: http://www.apache.org/foundation/preFAQ.html#java which mentioned your email address as a human contact for non-technical questions concerning the apache java project. i have been working on a side project recently and am working on a site that i hope to publish in the near future. the site is essentially an online reference of javadocs (similar to jakarta's own alexandria project). i am trying to find out the procedure for obtaining permission for publishing online the javadocs of existing apache java api's (such as oro, xerces, etc..). for a more precise idea of the site that i intend to publish, you may visit the following url: http://www.uptodata.com:8080/dbdoc/ which is a temporary demonstration (password-protected) version of the site. you may use these credentials to gain access: username: dbdoc password: demo Sincerely, Eitan Suez programmer -- End of Forwarded Message -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Cross-pollination
It has been discussed on general@xml. Check the archives. Scott -Original Message- From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 9:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Cross-pollination on 1/7/02 9:03 AM, Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing is for sure: both Gump and Forrest want to go in this direction: provide solid technological infrastructure in order for efforts to communicate, interoperate, share visions and exchange code, ideas and solutions. If Forrest is so great and all about 'communicating' and 'interoperating', how come I don't see any mention of what the f*ck it is anywhere on *.apache.org? What the heck is it? -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Status [was Code conventions]
From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] One thing I would like people to think about. I see viceral reaction at times to putting things in commons. Or in Avalon/Turbine/Struts, etc. And often there is lengthy debates about whether something belongs in Jakarta or not. Yet, curiously, there seems to be little consideration as to whether something belongs in Apache or not. Agreed. How many people here know what the Apache board does? :) Here's a concrete example to illustrate the issue: I've always been under the assumption that at some point a few people in Jakarta land would take a sustained interest in contributing code to Gump, at which point, I would propose it to be a formal subproject. At the present time, it looks like there is a greater possibility of interest of contributing by people in XML land. This lead to a bit of soul searching, and I came to conclusion that if that were to come to pass, I would follow the community. After all, what does it really matter whether the code is jakarta-gump or xml-whatever? You should *always* follow the community. The community gives life to the codebase. Scott -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Last gump run 25-dec-2001
It ran on Nagoya this morning... Check the experimental link. -Original Message- From: Paul Spencer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 9:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Last gump run 25-dec-2001 I noticed the last gump run was on 25-dec-2001, 3 days ago. When can we expect it to be up? Paul Spencer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general- [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Standard Change Log and ToDo
Jakarta projects use Anakia, but I have not found any macros in Jakarta-site2 that reference a Change Log or To Do list. Paul Spencer +1. Feel free to add some... -jon I kind of liked what Vincent was doing with Cactus. You should check that out... Scott Sanders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Standard Change Log and ToDo
We use XML format via Anakia in velocity-land and don't have any problems... I don't really mind. snip Enlighten me... what are the benefits of an XML based changelog... besides the ability to XSLT it into html (I don't think this is necessary). http://jakarta.apache.org/cactus/changes.html Vs. http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/CHANGES_2.0 I like both ;-) But, I happen to see more value in the pretty one :) Makes me happy to see that bugs were smashed (the hammer), and other such niceties. And the advantage of the XML one is that the text one is easily producable, if necessary. Scott Sanders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Standard Change Log and ToDo
on 12/12/01 3:19 PM, Kevin A. Burton - burtonator [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Enlighten me... what are the benefits of an XML based changelog... besides the ability to XSLT it into html (I don't think this is necessary). Eewww...XSLT... :) To each his own. How about being able to transform it into a ChangeLog.txt and a ChangeLog.html? Exactly. Scott -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Vacation - Sam Ruby
Conor MacNeill wrote: If that is the case, there is nothing we can do until Sam gets back, as I know that Gump does a cvs update prior to the build process every time. Scott Sanders Is Sam the only one with access to the Gump checkout directory. Perhaps Sam checked out a particular version or date which is now sticky? Conor From the latest check, Tomcat is building just fine. Problem is solved? http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/jakarta-tomcat.html So, it looks as if it is working... Scott - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Vacation - Sam Ruby
If that is the case, there is nothing we can do until Sam gets back, as I know that Gump does a cvs update prior to the build process every time. Scott Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 11 May 2001, Sam Ruby wrote: It would be nice if the tomcat3 and ant communities could look into getting tomcat to be buildable again using a dist build of ant from cvs. And if tomcat3 build works fine - Gump reports a failure that was fixed 2 weeks ago. ( the report is on a line that is commented out in build.xml ). If anyone can do a cvs update - I'm sure the failure will go away. Costin the taglibs community can figure out why the build fails complaining that I didn't specify servletapi.jar, when as near as I can tell, I *DID*. And if the xalan smoketest could be made to pass again. And if turbine could actually produce something that jetspeed would be willing to step up to... ;-) But most of all, it would be nice if [EMAIL PROTECTED] could look into what is causing CVS to be abysmally slow these past few weeks. - Sam Ruby - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
