Re: [gentoo-user] sound with webcams
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:03:39 +0930, Iain Buchanan wrote: I'm considering the logitech quickcam s5500 webcam - price is under $AU 50, it clips onto a laptop, and it has a mic. Apparently the image is quite reasonable[1], and it works in linux with luvc.[2] I have no experience with audio on webcams, but would point out that linuxuvc is now in the kernel. % zgrep USB_VIDEO /proc/config.gz CONFIG_USB_VIDEO_CLASS=m Despite the name, it works with built in cameras too, like the one on my Eee 900. -- Neil Bothwick A great many people mistake opinions for thoughts. -- Herbert V. Prochnow signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] emerge wants to downgrade packages
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I experienced problems with emerge --sync because of a timestamp issue and followed tha advice I found somewhere on the web to delete the timestamp.chk file. Now emerge --sync runs fine but it wants to downgrade a whole bunch of packages. What's wrong? Peter -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkjPte0ACgkQpGFGVEw9tBk45wCggSQist7ICyzuZ3FuHZTbWKBX b1UAoMAUMqrVCUE9TJfZ9E8yMvn2O8LK =1IJ5 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo video camera security system
but I think that will limit me to USB and it's 15-foot cable maximum? A friend of a friend set up a security system in his house, using USB cameras, and ran it more than 15 foot! Apparently, you can use a USB-cat5 converter (not ip based, so you can't route it, just uses the twisted pairs) and get even further. cat5 is cheap too. I suggest you experiment (or find someone else who has) and see how far they ran their cable. I think USB cameras would be the way to go. Does anyone know of a USB camera that works well with Gentoo? Also thanks to James for the h.264 tip. That's the kind of thing you don't figure out until you're already deep into zoneminder. - Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge wants to downgrade packages
Hi, generally there's nothing wrong in downgrading packages and means that the version you're using has been masked for some reason. You should check if the version you currently have is masked for your architecture. If yes emerge is ok and that's a normal behaviour. You can check that here: http://www.gentoo-portage.com HTH Davide 2008/9/16 Peter Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I experienced problems with emerge --sync because of a timestamp issue and followed tha advice I found somewhere on the web to delete the timestamp.chk file. Now emerge --sync runs fine but it wants to downgrade a whole bunch of packages. What's wrong? Peter -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkjPte0ACgkQpGFGVEw9tBk45wCggSQist7ICyzuZ3FuHZTbWKBX b1UAoMAUMqrVCUE9TJfZ9E8yMvn2O8LK =1IJ5 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo video camera security system
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:40:11 -0700, Grant wrote: I think USB cameras would be the way to go. Does anyone know of a USB camera that works well with Gentoo? You can also use standard composite output security cameras, connected to a TV card with a composite input. -- Neil Bothwick Bury a lawyer 12 feet under, because deep down they're nice. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: python-updater always wants to re-emerge certain things.
On 2008-09-16, Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From the times I have ran into this, it always wants to rebuild them until I remove the old version. I do a fair bit of Python development, and I like to keep multipel versions around for testing's sake. No clue why but it worked for me. I agree that after being recompiled it shouldn't need to do it again but it seems to do the same on my rig. That's interesting. Seems like a bug in python-updater. Definitely, but it'll have to wait until the computer can be left up for a day or so (it's a laptop, and it's not often in one place for that long). Yea, that can be tough on a puter that is mobile and not up for a while. It's not like OOo is a 30 minute compile or anything. It takes 6 hours or so on this desktop. On one of my machines it took almost 20 hours the last time I built it. On the laptop in question it's probably around 12. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! FROZEN ENTREES may at be flung by members of visi.comopposing SWANSON SECTS ...
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: python-updater always wants to re-emerge certain things.
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 02:02:32PM +, Penguin Lover Grant Edwards squawked: No clue why but it worked for me. I agree that after being recompiled it shouldn't need to do it again but it seems to do the same on my rig. That's interesting. Seems like a bug in python-updater. Definitely, but it'll have to wait until the computer can be left up for a day or so (it's a laptop, and it's not often in one place for that long). Can you show the contents of python-updater -vp? I think it is a bug, but I can't reproduce it at the moment. Reading through /usr/sbin/python-updater (it is just script, you know) nothing really seems wrong. But if you show the verbose messages and point out which of the packages have been merged before, maybe we can track down the issue. W -- So the particle comes in from infinity and leaves. Of course this will take an infinite amount of time, but then again we have lots of time. ~DeathMech, S. Sondhi. P-town PHY 205 Sortir en Pantoufles: up 648 days, 13:54
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a way to automate rsync of updated portage tree across multiple boxes without each having to pull it down from a gentoo mirror
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:49:36 +0200 (CEST), Vaeth wrote: It is always better to have a port not open than to rely on a router to close it apparently. If you are using NAT on the router, you have to explicitly forward that port somewhere for it to work. [...] Except that this is not completely true: See some of the many articles in the net which explain why NAT is not a security feature. A quick google search gave e.g. http://www.nexusuk.org/articles/2005/03/12/nat_security/
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a way to automate rsync of updated portage tree across multiple boxes without each having to pull it down from a gentoo mirror
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:29:16 +0200 (CEST), Vaeth wrote: If you are using NAT on the router, you have to explicitly forward that port somewhere for it to work. [...] Except that this is not completely true: See some of the many articles in the net which explain why NAT is not a security feature. A quick google search gave e.g. http://www.nexusuk.org/articles/2005/03/12/nat_security/ So the router maintains a database of current connections so that traffic is always allowed through for them, and you can tell it to filter all new connections made from the internet whilest allowing all new connections made from inside the local network. This means that noone can make a connection from the internet to one of your workstations, even though they can route to its address. If the relevant ports are not forwarded in the router, this applies and no one can make a new connection to your rsync server. In addition, the default rsyncd configuration with Gentoo uses a chroot jail. So even if you do allow connections to your portage tree, they won't be able to access anything else. After all, isn't that exactly how Gentoo mirrors work? -- Neil Bothwick There is absolutely no substitute for a genuine lack of preparation. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: python-updater always wants to re-emerge certain things.
On 2008-09-16, Willie Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 02:02:32PM +, Penguin Lover Grant Edwards squawked: No clue why but it worked for me. I agree that after being recompiled it shouldn't need to do it again but it seems to do the same on my rig. That's interesting. Seems like a bug in python-updater. Definitely, but it'll have to wait until the computer can be left up for a day or so (it's a laptop, and it's not often in one place for that long). Can you show the contents of python-updater -vp? # python-updater -vp [...] unrecognised option: -vp Running python-updater -v -p says this (all packages except openoffice have been emerged at least once since python was updated): * Starting Python Updater from 2.4 to 2.5 : * check soname enabled. * check pylibdir enabled. * check eclass disabled. * check manual enabled. * Adding to list: =dev-libs/boost-1.34.1-r2 * check: manual [Added to list manually] * Adding to list: =x11-libs/vte-0.16.14 * check: manual [Added to list manually] * Adding to list: =app-office/gnumeric-1.8.3 * check: manual [Added to list manually] * Adding to list: =app-office/openoffice-2.4.1 * check: soname [ Libraries linked to old libpython found: * libpython2.4.so.1.0 /usr/lib/openoffice/program/pythonloader.uno.so libpython2.4.so.1.0 /usr/lib/openoffice/program/libpyuno.so * ] These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies done! [ebuild R ] dev-libs/boost-1.34.1-r2 USE=-debug -doc -icu -pyste -tools 0 kB [ebuild R ] x11-libs/vte-0.16.14 USE=opengl python -debug -doc 0 kB [ebuild R ] app-office/gnumeric-1.8.3 USE=gnome perl python -debug 0 kB [ebuild R ] app-office/openoffice-2.4.1 USE=cups dbus eds firefox gnome gstreamer gtk kde ldap opengl pam -binfilter -debug -java -mono -odk -seamonkey -xulrunner LINGUAS=-af -ar -as_IN -be_BY -bg -bn -br -bs -ca -cs -cy -da -de -dz -el -en -en_GB -en_US -en_ZA -eo -es -et -fa -fi -fr -ga -gl -gu_IN -he -hi_IN -hr -hu -it -ja -km -ko -ku -lt -lv -mk -ml_IN -mr_IN -nb -ne -nl -nn -nr -ns -or_IN -pa_IN -pl -pt -pt_BR -ru -rw -sh -sk -sl -sr -ss -st -sv -sw_TZ -ta_IN -te_IN -tg -th -ti_ER -tn -tr -ts -uk -ur_IN -ve -vi -xh -zh_CN -zh_TW -zu 0 kB Total: 4 packages (4 reinstalls), Size of downloads: 0 kB -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Now I understand the at meaning of THE MOD SQUAD! visi.com
[gentoo-user] What is the preferred way to submit patches for documentation?
I would like to provide some patches for the Gentoo documentation. What is the best way to do this? I can imagine it's something like: 1 Download xml 2 Adjust 3 Create patch 4 Upload to bugzilla Is this the correct way? And if so what is the best way to download the xml? Which url should I use? Regards, Aniruddha
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: python-updater always wants to re-emerge certain things.
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 04:05:19PM +, Penguin Lover Grant Edwards squawked: Can you show the contents of python-updater -vp? # python-updater -vp [...] unrecognised option: -vp Oops, my bad. Running python-updater -v -p says this (all packages except openoffice have been emerged at least once since python was updated): * Starting Python Updater from 2.4 to 2.5 : * check soname enabled. * check pylibdir enabled. * check eclass disabled. * check manual enabled. * Adding to list: =dev-libs/boost-1.34.1-r2 * check: manual [Added to list manually] * Adding to list: =x11-libs/vte-0.16.14 * check: manual [Added to list manually] * Adding to list: =app-office/gnumeric-1.8.3 * check: manual [Added to list manually] * Adding to list: =app-office/openoffice-2.4.1 * check: soname [ Libraries linked to old libpython found: * libpython2.4.so.1.0 /usr/lib/openoffice/program/pythonloader.uno.so libpython2.4.so.1.0 /usr/lib/openoffice/program/libpyuno.so * ] Okay, then, it is not a bug. The packages listed belong to the PKGS_MANUAL set defined the python-updater. The comment there says: packages that should be re-emerged even if they don't fit the criteria (eg. ones that have pythong compiled statically) So that is the designed behaviour. I would prefer it like this rather than having packages that need re-emerging omitted. That said, you can pass the flag -dmanual to disable re-emerging those packages. (You can even fine tune which sets you want to re-emerge.) Read the python-updater man page for details. HTH, W -- A backwards poet writes inverse. Sortir en Pantoufles: up 648 days, 14:57
[gentoo-user] Re: python-updater always wants to re-emerge certain things.
On 2008-09-16, Willie Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, then, it is not a bug. The packages listed belong to the PKGS_MANUAL set defined the python-updater. The comment there says: packages that should be re-emerged even if they don't fit the criteria (eg. ones that have pythong compiled statically) So that is the designed behaviour. I would prefer it like this rather than having packages that need re-emerging omitted. Definitely. That said, you can pass the flag -dmanual to disable re-emerging those packages. (You can even fine tune which sets you want to re-emerge.) Read the python-updater man page for details. Thanks. I had seen the description about manual in the man page, but it didn't quite sink in. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Did I SELL OUT yet?? at visi.com
Re: [gentoo-user] I am a f*****g retard. Can you help me?
Hi b.n., on Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 10:26:56PM +0200, you wrote: Seriously: can someone more skilled than me explain why using --resume-skipfirst and then trying to solve the unmerged packages is/can be a bad idea? How can this break the system? Frankly I have no idea. I've heard that argument many times in the Paludis discussions but never even an attempt at an explanation that went beyond it breaks your system. My understanding is that you can have two kinds of situation if an upgrade fails: a) the failed package is not a dependency of any other package b) the failed package is a dependency of at least one other package In case a) you get to keep the old version, no problem. In case b) the package that depends on the failed one can b1) work with the old version b2) require the upgrade (and say so in the ebuild) In case b1) things will continue working just fine. In case b2) you'll get another failed emerge as portage will notice the unmet dependency, so you get to keep the old version, no problem. Did I miss anything? Sorry, no flowers today. cheers, Matthias -- I prefer encrypted and signed messages. KeyID: FAC37665 Fingerprint: 8C16 3F0A A6FC DF0D 19B0 8DEF 48D9 1700 FAC3 7665 pgp6nMHlYcdp9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] I am a f*****g retard. Can you help me?
Hi Vaeth, on Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 01:34:31AM +0200, you wrote: The problem is that after failing of a package, portage does not recalculate the dependencies, i.e. it will attempt to install also those packages which depend on the failed package. OIC, so that was what I missed :) Somehow the thread got split up and I missed your answer. In the presence of a --keep-going option, it is now fortunately not necessary anymore to weight the pros and cons. Of course, to insult somebody just because he weighted the pros and cons differently is beyond any acceptable limit. ++ I'd say reimplement it properly (i.e. check the deps) is always the better approach than the old implementation is b0rken so let's declare the functionality so and not reimplement it at all. cheers, Matthias -- I prefer encrypted and signed messages. KeyID: FAC37665 Fingerprint: 8C16 3F0A A6FC DF0D 19B0 8DEF 48D9 1700 FAC3 7665 pgpdXEs5w8z7Z.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] I am a f*****g retard. Can you help me?
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:50:35 +0200, Matthias Bethke wrote: Seriously: can someone more skilled than me explain why using --resume-skipfirst and then trying to solve the unmerged packages is/can be a bad idea? How can this break the system? Frankly I have no idea. I've heard that argument many times in the Paludis discussions but never even an attempt at an explanation that went beyond it breaks your system. My understanding is that you can have two kinds of situation if an upgrade fails: a) the failed package is not a dependency of any other package b) the failed package is a dependency of at least one other package In case a) you get to keep the old version, no problem. In case b) the package that depends on the failed one can b1) work with the old version b2) require the upgrade (and say so in the ebuild) In case b1) things will continue working just fine. In case b2) you'll get another failed emerge as portage will notice the unmet dependency, so you get to keep the old version, no problem. Did I miss anything? I think you missed an important part of the Gentoo philosophy, that it gives you the loaded gun but it's up to you to not point it at your foot. Not providing options that could potentially break a system in certain circumstances is for a Nanny Distro. Here the ethos is here's the tool, read the man page and don't blame us if you do something stupid. Does paludis also refuse to unmerge packages in the system set? -- Neil Bothwick Eagles may soar, but Wombles don't get sucked into jet engines signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a way to automate rsync of updated portage tree across multiple boxes without each having to pull it down from a gentoo mirror
Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:29:16 +0200 (CEST), Vaeth wrote: If you are using NAT on the router, you have to explicitly forward that port somewhere for it to work. [...] Except that this is not completely true [...] So the router maintains a database of current connections This is not true for a standard NAT router. Only special routers with additional functionality can do this. Not to mention that occassionally also bugs in the implementations of such routers are found (e.g. using DOS to attempt a database overflow is an attack which comes to mind in the generic case). In any case, it depends on how much you can trust the router, while if the port is not open on your machine you do not have such a risk at all. So why take an unnecessary risk? In addition, the default rsyncd configuration with Gentoo uses a chroot jail. Also a chroot jail is not a security feature: There are several ways known how to break out. Well, if you use grsecurity (hardened-sources), at least the most gapping security holes are closed in this respect, but also this is no guarantee and can hinder you when you have other uses for chroot. Not to speak that rsyncd introduces additional code anyway, which might also be vulnerable in an unexpected manner (e.g. in connection with a kernel bug or who-knows-what). After all, isn't that exactly how Gentoo mirrors work? If you offer something on the net you have certainly an increased risk that the corresponding machine is compromised - every mirror administrator is aware of this (or at least he should be so). But there is no reason to take any such sort of risk in a network which is not supposed to offer services to other people.
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a way to automate rsync of updated portage tree across multiple boxes without each having to pull it down from a gentoo mirror
Hi Neil, on Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 04:59:39PM +0100, you wrote: Except that this is not completely true: See some of the many articles in the net which explain why NAT is not a security feature. A quick google search gave e.g. http://www.nexusuk.org/articles/2005/03/12/nat_security/ So the router maintains a database of current connections so that traffic is always allowed through for them, and you can tell it to filter all new connections made from the internet whilest allowing all new connections made from inside the local network. This means that noone can make a connection from the internet to one of your workstations, even though they can route to its address. If the relevant ports are not forwarded in the router, this applies and no one can make a new connection to your rsync server. I don't even see why you'd strictly need connection tracking to avoid attacks made possible by grossly misconfigured ISP routers. Your router knows that packets with a destination address of 10/8, 192.168/16 and the like have absolutely no business on the public internet so the only sensible behavior would be to just drop them. cheers, Matthias -- I prefer encrypted and signed messages. KeyID: FAC37665 Fingerprint: 8C16 3F0A A6FC DF0D 19B0 8DEF 48D9 1700 FAC3 7665 pgp79947zvasg.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Please be respectful on list
[Resending to list because I sent with the wrong address the first time] A brief warning to all. Userrel does monitor this list and it does react to complaints from users. This list exists for the community; to let users help each other and to voice questions and concerns. This list does not exist for you to flame each other, to badmouth other projects, or to make rude comments. Treat others kindly and you will often find yourself treated kindly in return. Treat others with malice and you may find your gentoo-user privileges (among other privileges) revoked by Gentoo Staff. A friendly reminder from your User Relations Team, please treat others kindly. Thanks, -Alec Warner Gentoo User Relations.
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a way to automate rsync of updated portage tree across multiple boxes without each having to pull it down from a gentoo mirror
Hi Vaeth, on Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 07:14:48PM +0200, you wrote: In addition, the default rsyncd configuration with Gentoo uses a chroot jail. Also a chroot jail is not a security feature: There are several ways known how to break out. Huh? In the case of NAT it's reasonable to say it's not a security feature---it's a kludge that happens to increase security somewhat in the standard case. But there's only one reason I can see why you'd use a chroot environment *except* for security and that's to have more than one set of system binaries active at the same time for different applications. Which is normally a pretty bad kludge in itself (not that I hadn't done it, to avoid endless library woes on a Debian system that absolutely must be kept on Woody... :-S), I'd say the vast majority of chroot jails are there for nothing else but security. cheers, Matthias -- I prefer encrypted and signed messages. KeyID: FAC37665 Fingerprint: 8C16 3F0A A6FC DF0D 19B0 8DEF 48D9 1700 FAC3 7665 pgpX7qEZAEROh.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Problems with installdiscs 2007.0 and 2008.0 when installing on a K6 computer
Hi, My computer at home is seriously old already. It has a K6 CPU, an motherboard with VIA chips (chipset (?) VT82C598), and about 10G total hard disk space (spread over 2 hd's - can possibly add a 3rd hd, too). I've been using debian until now, BUT I'm less and less satisfied with that b/c of all that extra baggage I've to use here. Maybe with a trimmed down gentoo installation I can give the old machine a new lease on life. My main problem here is: - I can't use the minimal install CDs. If I try to boot from them (using gentoo-nofb just in case, also acpi=off and nodma), the machine promptly reboots after loading the kernel. I have sneaking suspicion that this is because the kernel is built for i686 and above. Is this true? If yes, ... well, is there anywhere still a mirror holding an older install CD? Puzzled in Vienna, Wolfgang
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Sunday 14 September 2008 22:37:21 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
Making the 'official' overlay paludis-only was a BIG mistake.
It's not paludis-only, it will work with any package manager whose
developers care enough to support the useful features of the kdebuild-1
EAPI.
and that was an official api? Yes? No?
Official according to whom? It is a stable and well documented eapi that any
package manager that regards those features to be useful can implement.
Was it needed? No - proven by kdesvn-portage
And noone ever claimed otherwise.
[...]
The KDE overlay isn't produced by the paludis-group.
no, it was just made by vivid paludis fans. Hey, lets make an overlay a lot
of user want - and make it paludis only. That way we can push paludis!
Wow. What do you base this nonsense on?
No, to provide ebuilds that make use of useful features that benefit both
users and developers.
which one? Which features 'benefit both users and developers' and are sooo
important that the kde overlay had to be paludis only?
Name them please.
- '-scm' support (--dl-reinstall-scm for users)
- use dependencies (no surprising interruptions mid-merge)
- suggestions (you see them upfront rather than in elog messages afterwards)
- sets
The latter of these is not subject to eapi but incredibly useful when dealing
with huge amounts of packages. It obsoletes meta packages and makes
reinstalls or uninstalls of all packages in the sets trivial. For Paludis it
also means that you can unmask/keyword two hundred packages just by addding
the sets to your packages.{keywords,unmask} equivalents. Both Paludis and
Portage 2.2 now has sets support although the details of their
implementations vary greatly.
Oh, does paludis support and equivalent to 'keep-going' or
'--ignore-failures' or are people who wants this extremly usefull features
still attacked and insulted?
Paludis had --continue-on-failure long before --keep-going was implemented in
Portage (which is months after the creation of the kdebuild overlay). This is
also one of the advantages that users of live KDE ebuilds got by using
Paludis (or get if you consider the additional flexibility when compared
to --keep-going to be useful).
On Monday 15 September 2008 00:38:18 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
lets see - an overlay is setup to develop and test ebuilds for KDE4 that
should some day go into the tree.
Deciding to use a feature that the official pm does not provide - and only
one of the three makes the 'testing' part and 'for the tree' pretty
superfluos.
And again I wonder what you base this nonsense on. Perhaps you never ever
bothered to look at this overlay, what it provides or what the intentions
behind it was?
As one of the original decision makers behind it I can tell you, that we never
intended to put any of these ebuilds in the tree. For this reason it also
never contained any release of KDE. Releases were maintained separately in
the tree using eapi 1. It only contains live ebuilds. Which is where '-scm'
and sets support provide the biggest advantages.
And we didn't do it to harass users. We did it because we wanted to get some
real world experience with some of the features that Paludis had provided for
years yet there were no indications Portage would support any time soon. Live
KDE packages was deemed the place where adding this requirement made the most
sense. Managing two hundred packages without those features is pain anyway.
We decided that the monthly KDE releases that we were packaging and adding to
the main tree using eapi 1 were frequent enough for those who didn't want
Paludis for whatever reason. If anybody disagreed with that they could
maintain their own overlay (which they did/do). We also announced it over
three weeks before we actually made it happen so anybody who cared about the
live KDE ebuilds can't really complaim about having been caught by surprise.
--
Bo Andresen
signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] I am a f*****g retard. Can you help me?
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 19:00:33 Neil Bothwick wrote: I think you missed an important part of the Gentoo philosophy, that it gives you the loaded gun but it's up to you to not point it at your foot. Not providing options that could potentially break a system in certain circumstances is for a Nanny Distro. Here the ethos is here's the tool, read the man page and don't blame us if you do something stupid. Does paludis also refuse to unmerge packages in the system set? I like the traditional behaviour of portage. When an update fails it tends to say: You asked me to do something. It didn't work; here's the output. Have a look at it then tell me what to do next. I'm a dumb piece of software, you are the thinking human so don't expect me to think for you. A failed emerge is by definition an error, and unpredictable. How can we expect software to dream up the best solution to an exception? -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a way to automate rsync of updated portage tree across multiple boxes without each having to pull it down from a gentoo mirror
Matthias Bethke wrote: Hi Vaeth, [...] Also a chroot jail is not a security feature: There are several ways known how to break out. [...] But there's only one reason I can see why you'd use a chroot environment *except* for security and that's to have more than one set of system binaries active at the same time for different applications. Or simply several systems (e.g. amd64 and x86, or gentoo and debian, or your boot disk and your newly installed system [the install handbook makes massive use of chroot]). This is exactly what chroot was made for. I'd say the vast majority of chroot jails are there for nothing else but security. Alan Cox: chroot is not and never has been a security tool, see e.g. http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Abusing_chroot
Re: [gentoo-user] I am a f*****g retard. Can you help me?
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Tuesday 16 September 2008 19:00:33 Neil Bothwick wrote: I think you missed an important part of the Gentoo philosophy, that it gives you the loaded gun but it's up to you to not point it at your foot. Not providing options that could potentially break a system in certain circumstances is for a Nanny Distro. Here the ethos is here's the tool, read the man page and don't blame us if you do something stupid. Does paludis also refuse to unmerge packages in the system set? I like the traditional behaviour of portage. When an update fails it tends to say: You asked me to do something. It didn't work; here's the output. Have a look at it then tell me what to do next. I'm a dumb piece of software, you are the thinking human so don't expect me to think for you. A failed emerge is by definition an error, and unpredictable. How can we expect software to dream up the best solution to an exception? I have used --skipfirst before but I also don't think it is a good idea. For a idiot like me to say that must mean something. I guess it would depend on the package as to whether it could be skipped or not. If I do a emerge -e world, I prefer nothing to fail else what is the point? Later. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Trying to block third party ip address with iptables...
Dale wrote: My bank runs windoze too. I talked to a techie a couple times and he Well, my current bank (the one with the bad behaviour) runs Solaris/Apache. In this particular regard they are good (in my opinion). said they are running themselves to death. Any American banks that run Linux? I read (a few years ago) about an american bank that gave out CDs, to their online customers, with a linux distro on to connect to their site, IIRC. Best regards Peter K
Re: [gentoo-user] Please be respectful on list
On Tue, 2008-09-16 at 10:26 -0700, Alec Warner wrote: [Resending to list because I sent with the wrong address the first time] A brief warning to all. Userrel does monitor this list and it does react to complaints from users. This list exists for the community; to let users help each other and to voice questions and concerns. This list does not exist for you to flame each other, to badmouth other projects, or to make rude comments. Treat others kindly and you will often find yourself treated kindly in return. Treat others with malice and you may find your gentoo-user privileges (among other privileges) revoked by Gentoo Staff. A friendly reminder from your User Relations Team, please treat others kindly. Thanks, -Alec Warner Gentoo User Relations. If this was targetted at me, I apologize. I've been under a lot of stress lately. Stressed and constantly facing frustration. Today at a convenience store the clerk asked me to buy a heart for Children's Medical Hospital to fund it's cancer operations and I was two seconds away from giving a speech on how wrong cancer genocide and how buying that heart would make me an accessory to murder in any non-racist court, but I walked out of the store just in time...
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo video camera security system
Neil Bothwick neil at digimed.co.uk writes: I think USB cameras would be the way to go. Does anyone know of a USB camera that works well with Gentoo? Well I thought you were going to transmit (stream) the video acrosss the open internet. If you do, the bandwidth consumption becomes an issue. You can also use standard composite output security cameras, connected to a TV card with a composite input. Correct you are, if you are going to build a campus (local) video surveillance system. When you stream the video over the Internet, all sorts of issues emerge. Chief being the amount of bandwidth you consume. There are lots of tools for measuring bandwidth. Personally, I isolate the video system into a single ethernet port, and then measure the bandwidth consumption on that single (isolated) port. Your ISP may give you fits also about streaming video. Many ISP look for such things and block ports if very much is used. Leaving the bandwidth up continuously is also risky as the many ISP(police) software identify and block such activities. You need to do lots of reading first! Here's a link to wet your appetite: http://iphome.hhi.de/marpe/download/perf_spie03.pdf ymmv, James
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Trying to block third party ip address with iptables...
pk wrote: Dale wrote: My bank runs windoze too. I talked to a techie a couple times and he Well, my current bank (the one with the bad behaviour) runs Solaris/Apache. In this particular regard they are good (in my opinion). Well at least they have a good OS. Just need to fix the service end. :/ said they are running themselves to death. Any American banks that run Linux? I read (a few years ago) about an american bank that gave out CDs, to their online customers, with a linux distro on to connect to their site, IIRC. Best regards Peter K Now that would be pretty cool. I like doing business with folks that run a good OS, Linux, BSD etc. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Problems with installdiscs 2007.0 and 2008.0 when installing on a K6 computer
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 19:33:28 Liebich, Wolfgang wrote: Hi, My computer at home is seriously old already. It has a K6 CPU, an motherboard with VIA chips (chipset (?) VT82C598), and about 10G total hard disk space (spread over 2 hd's - can possibly add a 3rd hd, too). I've been using debian until now, BUT I'm less and less satisfied with that b/c of all that extra baggage I've to use here. Maybe with a trimmed down gentoo installation I can give the old machine a new lease on life. My main problem here is: - I can't use the minimal install CDs. If I try to boot from them (using gentoo-nofb just in case, also acpi=off and nodma), the machine promptly reboots after loading the kernel. I have sneaking suspicion that this is because the kernel is built for i686 and above. Is this true? If yes, ... well, is there anywhere still a mirror holding an older install CD? I doubt it very much. My mirror at work long ago lost it's old images. But all is not lost. You can install from Debian using a stage 3 install. In essence, you will free up enough disk space, unpack an i686 stage 3 into a chroot, configure and boot into that. If that doesn't work, there's always the old stage1/2 technique, which is not supported anymore, but the docs still exist somewhere on the gentoo site. Finally, if all else fails, I have these ancient isos on my home machine: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/share/iso/gentoo/x86 $ find . -name *iso ./2005.0/gentoo-universal_2005.0.iso ./2005.0/gentoo-minimal_2005.0.iso ./2006.0/livecd-i686-installer-2006.0.iso ./2006.0/install-x86-minimal-2006.0.iso ./2006.1/livecd-i686-installer-2006.1.iso ./2007.0/livecd-amd64-installer-2007.0.iso If you have an ftp server on your network configured for upload I could be persuaded to put a copy there -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] I am a f*****g retard. Can you help me?
Alan McKinnon wrote: You asked me to do something. It didn't work But it is an annoyance if you leave your computer on during the three days you are on the road to compile a load of new packages like e.g. a new kde version, and when you return, compiling has not even started because your first pacakge fortune-mod had a trivial file collision. A failed emerge is by definition an error, and unpredictable. How can we expect software to dream up the best solution to an exception? Since the best solution to this exception is to finish that part of the task which is not influenced by this error, I think the expectation for this exception is clear.
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a way to automate rsync of updated portage tree across multiple boxes without each having to pull it down from a gentoo mirror
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 19:29:21 Matthias Bethke wrote: I'd say the vast majority of chroot jails are there for nothing else but security. Replace security with warm fuzzy feeling of apparent security that actually doesn't exist and you're close to the mark. The sole positive of using chroot like this is that (like NAT) it does happen to give a marginal increase in security at reasonably low cost. There are much better solutions with real security benefits: vservers, BSD jails, etc, etc. This is nto directed at you, I just seem to spend way too much time these days dispelling persistent myths that have taken hold in people's minds but have no real basis in fact -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a way to automate rsync of updated portage tree across multiple boxes without each having to pull it down from a gentoo mirror
Hi Vaeth, on Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 07:54:43PM +0200, you wrote: I don't even see why you'd strictly need connection tracking to avoid attacks made possible by grossly misconfigured ISP routers. Your router knows that packets with a destination address of 10/8, 192.168/16 and the like have absolutely no business on the public internet so the only sensible behavior would be to just drop them. This also requires a special kind of router: Namely one which has a physical way of distinguishing between the dangerous connection to the net and your local network (if they are dynamic, this can also sometimes be tricked). Of course, combined router/modems have this separation practically by definition. I can only recall one router where this wasn't the case, my first weird and wonderful DSL line in the Philippines :D Normally, why bother routing if you can just physically connect the thwo networks and have their traffic intermix? However, in any case it requires that the functionality you mention is implemented on the router and has no bugs and that the router cannot be compromised by other means. Sure, if your router is compromised you're fuxx0red anyway. I was just saying that in any halfway sane router these NAT problems are not an issue. And with many routers running Linux today so you can even get a shell and check iptables... :) cheers, Matthias -- I prefer encrypted and signed messages. KeyID: FAC37665 Fingerprint: 8C16 3F0A A6FC DF0D 19B0 8DEF 48D9 1700 FAC3 7665 pgpC3gaCIfo8p.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] I am a f*****g retard. Can you help me?
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 21:04:59 Vaeth wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: You asked me to do something. It didn't work But it is an annoyance if you leave your computer on during the three days you are on the road to compile a load of new packages like e.g. a new kde version, and when you return, compiling has not even started because your first pacakge fortune-mod had a trivial file collision. Yes, it is indeed extremely annoying. As a KDE-4 and e17-svn user I'm all too aware But you have to consider the actual cost of a technique designed to increase convenience where the results are not determined. A failed emerge is by definition an error, and unpredictable. How can we expect software to dream up the best solution to an exception? Since the best solution to this exception is to finish that part of the task which is not influenced by this error, I think the expectation for this exception is clear. Which is not influenced - this is the crucial clause, the one that is fraught with error. Who is to say what not influenced actually means? A complete lack of any related dependencies is one workable way to scope it. It happens often enough that it's worth the effort to accommodate it. But it also represents an alternate unexpected code path and for that reason I believe it warrants a configuration option but not to be default. IOW, you have to ask for it to get it. If you haven't already guessed, I subscribe to the school of thought of Don't Cause Unintended Side-Effects -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] xen gentoo as dom0 freeBSD as domU
Quoting Tomáš Krasničan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi list, Hi! is it possible (if is how) to make freeBSD as xen domU on gentoo dom0? Yes, but AFAIK, it will only run in full virtualization mode; just like windows. Maybe (and only _maybe_) there's a way to run it in paravirtualization, but I don't know how. Regards, Norberto This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
Re: [gentoo-user] xen gentoo as dom0 freeBSD as domU
Am Tuesday 16 September 2008 21:30:55 schrieb Norberto Bensa: Quoting Tomáš Krasničan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi list, Hi! is it possible (if is how) to make freeBSD as xen domU on gentoo dom0? Yes, but AFAIK, it will only run in full virtualization mode; just like windows. No, there are extra domU kernels from FreeBSD, so no full virtualization support is needed. Just like with Linux as domU. There are plenty of howtos/docs available, just google for freebsd domu. - Sascha signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
2008/9/16 Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I didn't say they were.You're never going to convince Volker, but you may well have succeeded in discouraging others from try Paludis. On what grounds? The Paludis developers don't like being lied about, therefore I won't use Paludis? I don't think the sort of person who would use that logic (presumably someone who intends to lie about the developers of his package manager) is the kind of person we want as a user anyway.
Re: [gentoo-user] I am a f*****g retard. Can you help me?
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:26:31 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Since the best solution to this exception is to finish that part of the task which is not influenced by this error, I think the expectation for this exception is clear. Which is not influenced - this is the crucial clause, the one that is fraught with error. Who is to say what not influenced actually means? A complete lack of any related dependencies is one workable way to scope it. It happens often enough that it's worth the effort to accommodate it. Isn't that exactly what --keep-going does, skips and packages that depends on the failed package and merge the rest? -- Neil Bothwick Bother, said Christopher Robin, as Pooh got out the vaseline. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 21:42:09 David Leverton wrote: 2008/9/16 Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I didn't say they were.You're never going to convince Volker, but you may well have succeeded in discouraging others from try Paludis. On what grounds? The Paludis developers don't like being lied about, therefore I won't use Paludis? I don't think the sort of person who would use that logic (presumably someone who intends to lie about the developers of his package manager) is the kind of person we want as a user anyway. That is not for you to decide. The user - ANY user - is free to decide what software they want to run and under what conditions, free from irrelevant judgements of suitability from self-appointed arbiters of whatever. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:42:09 +0100, David Leverton wrote: I didn't say they were.You're never going to convince Volker, but you may well have succeeded in discouraging others from try Paludis. On what grounds? The Paludis developers don't like being lied about, therefore I won't use Paludis? Because you attitude was abrasive and antagonistic. Remember, you may have been responding to one person, but you were sending your mail to everyone. Read Bo's response for an example of a way to make the point far more clearly in a single, reasoned email with no ad hominem attacks. I don't think the sort of person who would use that logic (presumably someone who intends to lie about the developers of his package manager) is the kind of person we want as a user anyway. I rest my case. -- Neil Bothwick ABORT: Drivel filter is compromised! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] I am a f*****g retard. Can you help me?
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 21:46:13 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:26:31 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Since the best solution to this exception is to finish that part of the task which is not influenced by this error, I think the expectation for this exception is clear. Which is not influenced - this is the crucial clause, the one that is fraught with error. Who is to say what not influenced actually means? A complete lack of any related dependencies is one workable way to scope it. It happens often enough that it's worth the effort to accommodate it. Isn't that exactly what --keep-going does, skips and packages that depends on the failed package and merge the rest? Yes, it does. The focus of my post was to highlight that it can be done, but is best done as an option, not as default. This thread is getting a tad complex, it's getting hard to tell if a specific post is talking about if --keep-going is even a good idea at all, or if it should be an option/default... -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] I am a f*****g retard. Can you help me?
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:48:29 +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: That's your preference, mine too as it happens, but that's reason to deny others a different choice. I'll leave it to you to spot the missing word :( I swear to $DEITY, the tagline was picked by signify, Who says software can't make intelligent decisions for us? ;-) -- Neil Bothwick All mail what i send is thoughly proof-red, definately! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 21:04:11 Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote:
On Sunday 14 September 2008 22:37:21 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
Making the 'official' overlay paludis-only was a BIG mistake.
It's not paludis-only, it will work with any package manager whose
developers care enough to support the useful features of the kdebuild-1
EAPI.
and that was an official api? Yes? No?
Official according to whom? It is a stable and well documented eapi that
any package manager that regards those features to be useful can implement.
Was it needed? No - proven by kdesvn-portage
And noone ever claimed otherwise.
[...]
The KDE overlay isn't produced by the paludis-group.
no, it was just made by vivid paludis fans. Hey, lets make an overlay a
lot of user want - and make it paludis only. That way we can push
paludis!
Wow. What do you base this nonsense on?
No, to provide ebuilds that make use of useful features that benefit
both users and developers.
which one? Which features 'benefit both users and developers' and are
sooo important that the kde overlay had to be paludis only?
Name them please.
- '-scm' support (--dl-reinstall-scm for users)
- use dependencies (no surprising interruptions mid-merge)
- suggestions (you see them upfront rather than in elog messages
afterwards) - sets
The latter of these is not subject to eapi but incredibly useful when
dealing with huge amounts of packages. It obsoletes meta packages and makes
reinstalls or uninstalls of all packages in the sets trivial. For Paludis
it also means that you can unmask/keyword two hundred packages just by
addding the sets to your packages.{keywords,unmask} equivalents. Both
Paludis and Portage 2.2 now has sets support although the details of their
implementations vary greatly.
Oh, does paludis support and equivalent to 'keep-going' or
'--ignore-failures' or are people who wants this extremly usefull
features still attacked and insulted?
Paludis had --continue-on-failure long before --keep-going was implemented
in Portage (which is months after the creation of the kdebuild overlay).
This is also one of the advantages that users of live KDE ebuilds got by
using Paludis (or get if you consider the additional flexibility when
compared to --keep-going to be useful).
On Monday 15 September 2008 00:38:18 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
lets see - an overlay is setup to develop and test ebuilds for KDE4 that
should some day go into the tree.
Deciding to use a feature that the official pm does not provide - and
only one of the three makes the 'testing' part and 'for the tree' pretty
superfluos.
And again I wonder what you base this nonsense on. Perhaps you never ever
bothered to look at this overlay, what it provides or what the intentions
behind it was?
As one of the original decision makers behind it I can tell you, that we
never intended to put any of these ebuilds in the tree. For this reason it
also never contained any release of KDE. Releases were maintained
separately in the tree using eapi 1. It only contains live ebuilds. Which
is where '-scm' and sets support provide the biggest advantages.
And we didn't do it to harass users. We did it because we wanted to get
some real world experience with some of the features that Paludis had
provided for years yet there were no indications Portage would support any
time soon. Live KDE packages was deemed the place where adding this
requirement made the most sense. Managing two hundred packages without
those features is pain anyway.
We decided that the monthly KDE releases that we were packaging and adding
to the main tree using eapi 1 were frequent enough for those who didn't
want Paludis for whatever reason. If anybody disagreed with that they could
maintain their own overlay (which they did/do). We also announced it over
three weeks before we actually made it happen so anybody who cared about
the live KDE ebuilds can't really complaim about having been caught by
surprise.
Actually on that I can rely. I've been using the kde-svn back when it was
portage allowed, and I must say it has been an improvement switching to
paludis. As a user I find --continue-on-failure much better and flexible than
--skip-first and on a live scm tree as this overlay has it is much needed.(
I don't know about --keep-going since it has been implemented only after I've
switched to paludis). I like paludis and it's my choise to use it. To each his
own.
Also don't flatter your selves I wouldn't(would) use a package just because
some dev said something about some other dev, or discard(like) it because some
conversation on IRC. I know what is right for me. So keep using
emerge/gnome/bsd whatever fits you and let's ALL continue with our lives!
Re: [gentoo-user] I am a f*****g retard. Can you help me?
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:55:59 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: Isn't that exactly what --keep-going does, skips any packages that depends on the failed package and merge the rest? Yes, it does. The focus of my post was to highlight that it can be done, but is best done as an option, not as default. I certainly wasn't suggesting that it should be the default, for at least two reasons. Firstly, there is a potential risk - secondly, it is changing the default behaviour of a program, which is rarely the best idea, This thread is getting a tad complex, it's getting hard to tell if a specific post is talking about if --keep-going is even a good idea at all, or if it should be an option/default... I don't think it was ever discussed as anything but an option, but I could be even more confused than you... -- Neil Bothwick Overcome by jealousy, Data dismembers the Energizer Bunny Neil Bothwick Brain fried -- core dumped. Neil Bothwick Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy. -- Robert Heinlein Neil Bothwick You have a tendency to feel you are superior to most computers. Neil Bothwick Due to inflation, all clouds will now be lined with zinc. Neil Bothwick Anything not nailed down is a cat toy... Neil Bothwick If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail. * Maslow Neil Bothwick Death is proven to be 99.9% fatal to all laboratory rats. Neil Bothwick Politicians are like nappies Both should be changed regularly, and for the same reason Neil Bothwick But, I DO know everything. - Q. Neil Bothwick He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry Curly Neil Bothwick If the cops arrest a mime, do they tell her she has the right to remain silent? Neil Bothwick Stop the turbolift! Worf's carsick again... Neil Bothwick Oregano: the ancient Italian art of pizza folding. Neil Bothwick If God had intended Man to program, we'd be born with serial I/O ports. Neil Bothwick I'm not broke, I'm `financially challenged'. Neil Bothwick Sex is hereditary. If your parents never had it, chances are you wont either. - Neil Bothwick Some day my ship will come in, but with my luck, I'll be at the airport. Neil Bothwick Bad dog! Leave that wire [EMAIL PROTECTED] TERRIER Neil Bothwick No wanna work. Wanna bang on keyboard. Neil Bothwick If I want your opinion, I'll ask you to fill out the necessary form. Neil Bothwick What I need is a list of specific unknown problems we will encounter. Neil Bothwick ... Yummy, said Pooh, as he hilted his paw into the honeypot. Neil Bothwick What Aussies lack in Humour they make up for in Beer! Neil Bothwick Be nice to moderators. They HATE that! Neil Bothwick Are parttime band leaders semi-conductors? Neil Bothwick Two most common elements: Hydrogen and Stupidity Neil Bothwick Plagarism prohibited. Derive carefully. Neil Bothwick Enter any 11-digit prime number to continue... Neil Bothwick ... Veni, Vidi, Visa - I came, I saw, I charged it. Neil Bothwick Don't just do something, sit there! Neil Bothwick MICROSOFT: Most Intelligent Customers Realize Our Software Only Fools Teenagers Neil Bothwick Crayons can take you more places than starships. * Guinan Neil Bothwick Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't. Neil Bothwick Custer was fitted for an Arrow shirt. Neil Bothwick What do you get if you cross an agnostic, an insomniac and adyslexic? Someone who lies awake at night wondering if there really is a dog. Neil Bothwick Atheism is a non-prophet organization., Neil Bothwick What did the first man to discover you can get milk from cows think he was doing? - anon. Neil Bothwick Bother, said Pooh, as his 'B' sample tested positive. Neil Bothwick Computer (n): A device designed to speed and automate errors. Neil Bothwick Bald spot? No -- solar panel for brain power Neil Bothwick Use the Force, Luke, Don't give in to the DOS side.- ObiWan Kenobi Neil Bothwick Set phasers to extreme itching! Neil Bothwick Drive not ready: (R)etry (G)o to Impulse (C)all Engineering Neil Bothwick Okay, I pulled the pin. Now what? Hey, where are you going? Neil Bothwick FINE: Tax for doing wrong. Tax: fine for doing fine. Neil Bothwick Ifyoucanreadthis,youspendtoomuchtimefiguringouttaglines. Neil Bothwick Come on! It's a whole new life out there! Oh, no. Not another one! Neil Bothwick It must be Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays. Neil Bothwick HANDLE WITH EXTREME CARE: This Amiga contains minute electrically charged particles moving at velocities in excess of five hundred million miles per hour. Neil Bothwick He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry Curly Neil Bothwick The trouble with the world is that everybody in it is three drinks behind. Neil Bothwick The facts, although interesting, are usually irrelevant. Neil Bothwick Without Time Everything Would Happen At Once! Neil Bothwick The box said 'needs Win95 or better' so I bought an Amiga. Neil Bothwick I've got the taglines if you've got the time! Neil
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 20:51:43 Alan McKinnon wrote: That is not for you to decide. The user - ANY user - is free to decide what software they want to run and under what conditions, free from irrelevant judgements of suitability from self-appointed arbiters of whatever. Well, yes, I'm just saying that there are certain kinds of people who won't cause any tears on our behalf if they decide not to use Paludis.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 20:54:43 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:42:09 +0100, David Leverton wrote: I didn't say they were.You're never going to convince Volker, but you may well have succeeded in discouraging others from try Paludis. On what grounds? Because you attitude was abrasive and antagonistic. I trust these people won't be using Linux either, then?
[gentoo-user] Re: I am a f*****g retard. Can you help me?
I don't think it was ever discussed as anything but an option, but I could be even more confused than you... Looks like the disease is spreading, now your signature script is even more confused than you ;-) Good database, though! -- Remy signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] I am a f*****g retard. Can you help me?
On 16 Sep 2008, at 17:50, Matthias Bethke wrote: on Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 10:26:56PM +0200, you wrote: Seriously: can someone more skilled than me explain why using --resume-skipfirst and then trying to solve the unmerged packages is/can be a bad idea? How can this break the system? Frankly I have no idea. I've heard that argument many times in the Paludis discussions but never even an attempt at an explanation that went beyond it breaks your system. My understanding is that you can have two kinds of situation if an upgrade fails: ... b) the failed package is a dependency of at least one other package In case a) you get to keep the old version, no problem. The risk is that you want to install X that depends upon Y. The ebuild for X states that version 1.2.3 of Y must be used because there's a bug in 1.2.2. The new version of Y fails to compile, so when X is compiled it only has the old version of Y to work with. It may compile OK but not work or feature a security bug. In the ideal world X's ebuild will fail, recognizing that Y is too old, and I think it will - my explanation may not literally be correct, but I hope you get the idea. What should NOT be in dispute is that Portage is a big old mess and well in need of replacement. It was never designed to do what it does now. Hopefully the replacement chosen to be integrated into Gentoo itself will be chosen on its merits, whether that be Paludis or something else. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
David Leverton ha scritto: On Tuesday 16 September 2008 00:11:30 b.n. wrote: If it's so, what's the point of bitching with him? You won't change his mind. So, you're again just wasting bytes. Because people might believe him if he is allowed to go unchallenged. Frankly, the more you challenge him this mindless way, the more I believe him. The only thing saving you is that your opponent is not much better, so basically you both are on par. You see, people doesn't give a s**t anymore about your *arguments*, if you convey them by catfighting like two misbehaved children. Why don't you write some thorough, well thought post on a blog (*avoiding* name calling the other, but just *bringing arguments*): this could let you advance your position. And again, get a life. It's just source code, a package manager and whatever. You are arguing on a tiny, tiny, tiny spot of the universe. There are much worse things on which to get angry. Grow up.
Re: [gentoo-user] Please be respectful on list
Alec Warner ha scritto: [Resending to list because I sent with the wrong address the first time] A brief warning to all. Userrel does monitor this list and it does react to complaints from users. This list exists for the community; to let users help each other and to voice questions and concerns. This list does not exist for you to flame each other, to badmouth other projects, or to make rude comments. Treat others kindly and you will often find yourself treated kindly in return. Treat others with malice and you may find your gentoo-user privileges (among other privileges) revoked by Gentoo Staff. I don't know if I've been called into question (maybe the title of my last thread was a bit, er, too much ironic?) but what is a gentoo-user privilege? m.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:14:47 b.n. wrote: Frankly, the more you challenge him this mindless way, the more I believe him. If you think in such backwards logic then I don't care who you believe.
Re: [gentoo-user] Please be respectful on list
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:18:50 b.n. wrote: Treat others kindly and you will often find yourself treated kindly in return. Treat others with malice and you may find your gentoo-user privileges (among other privileges) revoked by Gentoo Staff. I don't know if I've been called into question (maybe the title of my last thread was a bit, er, too much ironic?) but what is a gentoo-user privilege? It's the validity of your list subscription and the ability to post to the list. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:15:38 +0100, David Leverton wrote: Because your attitude was abrasive and antagonistic. I trust these people won't be using Linux either, then? Manners and respect are OS-agnostic. How you say something can be more influential than what you say. -- Neil Bothwick Quark! Quark! Beware the quantum duck! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] I am a f*****g retard. Can you help me?
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:05:29 Neil Bothwick wrote: This thread is getting a tad complex, it's getting hard to tell if a specific post is talking about if --keep-going is even a good idea at all, or if it should be an option/default... I don't think it was ever discussed as anything but an option, but I could be even more confused than you... You, more confused than I? No, my friend. That is unpossible. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
[gentoo-user] virtualbox networking
Hello, I'm trying to setup virtualbox networking. I went through the tutorial at gentoo wiki, but I have troubles ... obvious :-( In the howto there's called /sbin/ip, but I have no idea in which package this program rise ;-) What I need is the bidirectional communication between host and guest. Thanks for help Pat
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:13:01 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:15:38 +0100, David Leverton wrote: Because your attitude was abrasive and antagonistic. I trust these people won't be using Linux either, then? Manners and respect are OS-agnostic. Completely not the point.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
At Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:33:27 +0100 David Leverton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:13:01 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 21:15:38 +0100, David Leverton wrote: Because your attitude was abrasive and antagonistic. I trust these people won't be using Linux either, then? Manners and respect are OS-agnostic. Completely not the point. Yes, Linus and others are pretty tough in the kernel mailing list. However 1. You are not linus. 2. That list is not intended for users, but for developers. 3. You are not linus. allan
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:39:12 Allan Gottlieb wrote: 1. You are not linus. It's OK for people I like to do this, but not people I don't like? 2. That list is not intended for users, but for developers. Not even slightly relevant. 3. You are not linus. See above.
[gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:05:22 +0100 David Leverton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:14:47 b.n. wrote: Frankly, the more you challenge him this mindless way, the more I believe him. If you think in such backwards logic then I don't care who you believe. It's not backwards logic. The choice to use the list for flame wars makes anyone who does it seem malicious, not just you. -- »Q« Kleeneness is next to Gödelness.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
David Leverton ha scritto: On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:14:47 b.n. wrote: Frankly, the more you challenge him this mindless way, the more I believe him. If you think in such backwards logic then I don't care who you believe. It's not backwards logic. The important words are this mindless way. If you were challenging him quietly and thoroughly, *maybe* someone could have given credit to your arguments. As someone said, there is no worse thing you can do a cause, than defending it with the wrong arguments. Bitching and arriving to a children-in-the-school behaviour is the worst thing you can do to your cause. Before I thought paludis was an interesting package manager. Now I think it is an interesting package manager with an *awful* community behind, and even if I am curious to try it, I am not going to do it because of the treatment I'd be reserved by people like ciaranm, or you, if I only needed help or disagreed with your opinions. Of course you can say I don't care of you and people like you. But, hey, this means no one cares about you too. Don't know who wins in such cases, but I have the feeling it is not you. m.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
Neil Bothwick ha scritto: On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:34:52 +0100, David Leverton wrote: That was the trigger, not the point. This thread long since ceased to have any point. All you are achieving is to discourage people from trying Paludis if this is the kind of hassle associated with it. My reponses to Volker are certainly not associated with him trying Paludis. I didn't say they were.You're never going to convince Volker, but you may well have succeeded in discouraging others from try Paludis. He did. See my answer below. m.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:18:42 b.n. wrote: I am not going to do it because of the treatment I'd be reserved by people like ciaranm, or you, if I only needed help or disagreed with your opinions. What on Earth makes you think that? Volker is certainly not asking for help, and he is not merely disagreeing, but preaching his gospel of lies at every conceivable opportunity. If you don't do that (which is surely wise in any case) you won't receive the corresponding response.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:47:49 »Q« wrote: It's not backwards logic. The Paludis developer posts evidence that the liar is lying, therefore I'm going to believe the liar is entirely backwards.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 6:13 PM, David Leverton [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:47:49 »Q« wrote: It's not backwards logic. The Paludis developer posts evidence that the liar is lying, therefore I'm going to believe the liar is entirely backwards. What's Paludis? Just kidding. Never used it, I'm happy with portage. -- - Mark Shields
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
David Leverton ha scritto: On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:18:42 b.n. wrote: I am not going to do it because of the treatment I'd be reserved by people like ciaranm, or you, if I only needed help or disagreed with your opinions. What on Earth makes you think that? Your behaviour. The IRC log posted on the r0bertz blog. Just two examples. Volker is certainly not asking for help, and he is not merely disagreeing, but preaching his gospel of lies at every conceivable opportunity. If you don't do that (which is surely wise in any case) you won't receive the corresponding response. This is paranoid behaviour. To think that there is a hate campaign about your little software is utterly paranoid. You are not Linux, no Microsoft is doing a get the facts campaign on you. Actually, I'm pretty sure 99.999% of world population just doesn't care about your software. :) That said, I don't agree with everything Volker says (frankly I saw no problem at all with a paludis-only overlay, and I said that before, and I don't think there is a paludis conspiracy just like I don't think there is an anti-paludis conspiracy), and Volker's tone was not better than yours. But I'm sure that he talks this way because he's actually concerned about your software and the behaviour of your community. And reading stuff like the IRC logs of ciaranm (and you defending his behaviour) I can't but agree. None of you was constructive in the discussion. For example, a sub-thread went this way: Volker said Paludis is bloated. You answered no it's not. He said yes it is and then it became a sensless blah-blah liar-liar. Why don't you just go at your desks, count lines of code/features/memory consuption/executable size/whatever fits your measures of bloated and decide numerically what's bloated or not? Moreover, as I told you some time ago, the only way to shut up lies is *facts*. In software, facts means code. You can take it as, think, a contest. He says Paludis is bloated? Let's compare them, and, in the meantime, let's aggressively reduce memory consumption! Let's modularize it (if it's not already), so everyone can have his pet features without complaining. If it's already modular, let's write the appropriate plugin and tell him see how easy it was?. Et cetera. When you will have huge, undeniable facts on your side, you won't need to fear any conspiracy. And if someone still denies them, well, let's make those facts even huger and more solid -that is, go and code again. That way you not only will win your flamewars with more arguments, but make the life of users better. m.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:53:20 b.n. wrote: David Leverton ha scritto: On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:18:42 b.n. wrote: I am not going to do it because of the treatment I'd be reserved by people like ciaranm, or you, if I only needed help or disagreed with your opinions. What on Earth makes you think that? Your behaviour. Towards people who only need help or disagree (rationally) with my opinions? Such as? The IRC log posted on the r0bertz blog. Don't do something so draw-droppingly idiotic if you don't want to receive the appropriate reaction. This is paranoid behaviour. To think that there is a hate campaign about your little software is utterly paranoid. It's not paranoid, it's true. I've seen it. Actually, I'm pretty sure 99.999% of world population just doesn't care about your software. :) Perhaps, but some of the people who do care care in a rather malicious way. Moreover, as I told you some time ago, the only way to shut up lies is *facts*. In software, facts means code. As I told you some time ago, these people don't care about code.
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a way to automate rsync of updated portage tree across multiple boxes without each having to pull it down from a gentoo mirror
Hi Vaeth, on Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 08:36:28PM +0200, you wrote: Also a chroot jail is not a security feature: There are several ways known how to break out. [...] But there's only one reason I can see why you'd use a chroot environment *except* for security and that's to have more than one set of system binaries active at the same time for different applications. Or simply several systems (e.g. amd64 and x86, or gentoo and debian, or your boot disk and your newly installed system [the install handbook makes massive use of chroot]). This is exactly what chroot was made for. Sure, that's why I kept it as general als more than one set, be it a different architecture/vendor/purpose/whatever. I'd say the vast majority of chroot jails are there for nothing else but security. Alan Cox: chroot is not and never has been a security tool, see e.g. http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Abusing_chroot No disrespect to Mr. Cox but a silly argument stays a silly argument even if brought forward by Alan. Programs like postfix certainly don't use chroots for security because they were designed noobs or incompetent people. Alan acknowledges that Normal users cannot use chroot() themselves so they can't use chroot to get back out but insists on his point, completely ignoring that doing a chroot() immediately followed by dropping your root privileges is exactly the recommended way to use it for security. That's not to say that setting up a vserver for each of your programs exposed to the net wasn't *more* secure than a chroot if you want to do it but it's certainly a whole lot more secure if used properly than not doing it at all. cheers, Matthias -- I prefer encrypted and signed messages. KeyID: FAC37665 Fingerprint: 8C16 3F0A A6FC DF0D 19B0 8DEF 48D9 1700 FAC3 7665 pgpO5vRqjdOl0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
On Wednesday 17 September 2008, David Leverton wrote: On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:47:49 »Q« wrote: It's not backwards logic. The Paludis developer posts evidence that the liar is lying, therefore I'm going to believe the liar is entirely backwards. since you can't stop and fill up may spam box: I provided evidence. You didn't. You have provided nothing. You attacked me. And you continued to attack me all day long. That says a lot about you. That is the last thing I will post in this thread or as an answer to you. So be happy.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
David Leverton ha scritto: On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:53:20 b.n. wrote: David Leverton ha scritto: On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:18:42 b.n. wrote: I am not going to do it because of the treatment I'd be reserved by people like ciaranm, or you, if I only needed help or disagreed with your opinions. What on Earth makes you think that? Your behaviour. Towards people who only need help or disagree (rationally) with my opinions? Such as? The IRC log posted on the r0bertz blog. Don't do something so draw-droppingly idiotic if you don't want to receive the appropriate reaction. The reaction is not appropriate. The behaviour could be due to simple ignorance, instead of idiocy. If he *knew* it was idiotic, he *would not* have done it, isn't it? Or didn't you think about that? Are maybe you -God forbid!- an idiot too? :) In any case, even if r0bertz is a clueless idiot, the only sane approach is even in this case to calmly and rationally explain (or providing links to information) why what he was doing was, in your opinion, wrong. That's for example what I am doing with you, even if you are quite jaw-droppingly too, outside a system administration context. You see: it's called Dealing With People. It's a different software from Portage or Paludis, but you should try it nonetheless. This is paranoid behaviour. To think that there is a hate campaign about your little software is utterly paranoid. It's not paranoid, it's true. I've seen it. Pretty unfortunately, that's what every paranoid would say. Until I will see anti-paludis campaigns in the streets, sorry, it's just paranoia. You see people disagreeing (very wholeheartedly) with you, and instead of accepting that, you build the delusion of a conspiracy. It's a well known, quite common psychological mechanism. Of course you are free to give me the URLs of angry anti-paludis websites, the menacing private mails you received, etc. and convince me I am wrong. Actually, I'm pretty sure 99.999% of world population just doesn't care about your software. :) Perhaps, but some of the people who do care care in a rather malicious way. And, sir, what would the aim of those people be? What advantage they have from maliciously and viciously crushing Paludis? Will they become richer? More powerful? Or it's for the women? You see, you happily give idiocy tags to people, yet you seem to believe things that have no rational justification at all. Maybe you should think twice. Moreover, as I told you some time ago, the only way to shut up lies is *facts*. In software, facts means code. As I told you some time ago, these people don't care about code. They care about code, and they care about your public behaviour. Even if they spread lies about your code because they want the Crystal Skull from the Paludis Shrine, well, you do not have to convince them. You have to convince everyone else. And you are not doing that. Trying to win on Volker, you are losing with everyone else. But at this point I don't think you will understand that -you're too busy not being an idiot when talking about package management, yet being somehow not as clever when dealing with human beings. m.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo video camera security system
Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:40:11 -0700, Grant wrote: I think USB cameras would be the way to go. Does anyone know of a USB camera that works well with Gentoo? You can also use standard composite output security cameras, connected to a TV card with a composite input. except that you then have to provide power to the camera as well, and composite is pretty bad at interference over long distances, especially if you're running AC next to it! On the other hand, I've run composite without amplification about 30 meters in a proper shielded environment, and had a clear (as the original) picture at the other end. I don't know how USB would go over that distance... USB cameras put the reliance on your webcam drivers working, composite cameras put the reliance on your TV card. And TV cards with multiple inputs can start to get expensive, but most cheap motherboards have multiple usb nowadays. -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Barth's Distinction: There are two types of people: those who divide people into two types, and those who don't.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
On Wednesday 17 September 2008 00:10:26 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: I provided evidence. You provided lies. You attacked me. I defended my project against your attacks. That is the last thing I will post in this thread or as an answer to you. A likely story.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
On Wednesday 17 September 2008 00:27:54 b.n. wrote: If he *knew* it was idiotic, he *would not* have done it, isn't it? That's his problem. Until I will see anti-paludis campaigns in the streets, sorry, it's just paranoia. That seems like a rather arbitrary restriction. As you said, most people in the world don't care about anything Gentoo-related, so campaigning in the streets seems rather unlikely, but that's no excuse for spreading lies amongst the subset of people who do care. And, sir, what would the aim of those people be? What advantage they have from maliciously and viciously crushing Paludis? Will they become richer? More powerful? Or it's for the women? My theory is that they're scared. Or it could just be because they enjoy hurting other people. And you are not doing that. Trying to win on Volker, you are losing with everyone else. Only the irrational ones.
Re: [gentoo-user] virtualbox networking
Quoting Marc Joliet [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
What I need is the bidirectional communication between host and guest.
Sorry, but I can't help you there, though I'm going to sit down and set
that up myself when I have time (this year, I hope ;) ).
I know! I know!! :-)
The following assumes baselayout-2
This is my /etc/conf.d/net:
bridge_br0=eth0
config_eth0=null
config_br0=dhcp
brctl_br0=setfd 0 sethello 0 stp on
Then run:
sudo ln -s net.lo /etc/init.d/net.eth0
sudo ln -s net.lo /etc/init.d/net.br0
And:
sudo rc-update add net.eth0
sudo rc-update add net.br0
Reboot if you want. After reboot you should have br0 and eth0:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ sudo ifconfig
[sudo] password for zoolook:
br0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:1b:fc:fb:82:08
inet addr:192.168.1.200 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
inet6 addr: fe80::21b:fcff:fefb:8208/64 Scope:Link
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:286825 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:202074 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
RX bytes:242240512 (231.0 MiB) TX bytes:32231791 (30.7 MiB)
eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:1b:fc:fb:82:08
inet6 addr: fe80::21b:fcff:fefb:8208/64 Scope:Link
UP BROADCAST RUNNING PROMISC MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:286819 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:203897 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:2
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:246254404 (234.8 MiB) TX bytes:32369094 (30.8 MiB)
(note that eth0 does not have ipv4 address)
After all this, create a small bash script in /usr/bin. I called mine
addif.sh:
#!/bin/bash
IF=${1}
ACTION=${2}
BRIDGE=br0
case $ACTION in
up)
sudo VBoxAddIF ${IF} ${LOGNAME} ${BRIDGE} /dev/null 21
;;
down)
sudo VBoxDeleteIF ${IF} /dev/null 21
;;
esac
echo $IF
Add this to /etc/sudores:
%vboxusers ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/VBoxAddIF, /usr/bin/VBoxDeleteIF
Now. Open VirtualBox and configure network like this:
Attached to: Host Interface
Setup application: addif.sh vbox0 up
terminate application: addif.sh vbox0 down
Note that vbox0 is any name you like. I named mine xp or nt4 or
centos depending on the guest.
The interface is create and destroyed on demand.
Regards,
Norberto
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...
At Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:47:57 +0100 David Leverton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:39:12 Allan Gottlieb wrote: 1. You are not linus. It's OK for people I like to do this, but not people I don't like? Rather, It is less objectionable for people who have accomplished a very great deal and have greatly improved the computing environment for the members of the corresponding mailing list. Like would not apply as I don't know either linus or the members of this mailing list. 2. That list is not intended for users, but for developers. Not even slightly relevant. Why? I would think plaudis and/or kde developers would be more interested in the decision of why plaudis was chosen than would users. However, I must admit that neither users nor developers are likely to be interested in comments made in the tone of some of the previous ones on this mailing list. allan
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo video camera security system
On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 08:42:57 +0930, Iain Buchanan wrote: You can also use standard composite output security cameras, connected to a TV card with a composite input. except that you then have to provide power to the camera as well, and composite is pretty bad at interference over long distances, especially if you're running AC next to it! The ones I've seen have a DC power line in the same cable sheath as the video, a 9V or 12V adaptor plugs into this at the computer end, so there's no AC anywhere near the video signal. USB cameras put the reliance on your webcam drivers working, composite cameras put the reliance on your TV card. And TV cards with multiple inputs can start to get expensive, but most cheap motherboards have multiple usb nowadays. http://store.bluecherry.net/4_port_video_capture_card_linux_bt878_p/pv-143na_oem.htm $44 isn't that expensive. How much would four USB repeaters cost, and even then you'd get less range. Neither option is the do-all solution, but there is a choice to USB that better suits some circumstances. -- Neil Bothwick Top Oxymorons Number 44: Advanced BASIC signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] [getting on-topic I think] dial-up, switching isp's and other thoughts.
Dale wrote: But isn't this true of any ISP or email host? Dale Not on my server which I run myself. Want to buy domain hosting with imap-ssl, pop3-ssl, and smpt-ssl (sorry no non ssl user connections) with no searching or archiving of your mail for $30 a year? :-) kashani
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A plea for calm
David Leverton ha scritto: On Wednesday 17 September 2008 00:27:54 b.n. wrote: If he *knew* it was idiotic, he *would not* have done it, isn't it? That's his problem. No, that's *your* problem now, because you and your accolites now look like a bunch of arrogant a**holes, instead of helpful people. You did a wonderfully awful PR job. If your aim is Paludis success or even thriving, you are failing in one of the most ridicolous ways possible. (And if your aim is not Paludis success, why do you care about people spreading lies on that project?) Until I will see anti-paludis campaigns in the streets, sorry, it's just paranoia. That seems like a rather arbitrary restriction. As you said, most people in the world don't care about anything Gentoo-related, so campaigning in the streets seems rather unlikely, That was of course an hyperbole. I asked instead seriously for facts about such campaign. URLs of websites dedicated against Paludis, menacing mails, personal attacks, whatever. I am still waiting for evidence of this mysterious conspiracy. but that's no excuse for spreading lies amongst the subset of people who do care. I will believe these are lies when I will see facts backing your assertions. Until that, I am neutral on both sides. And, sir, what would the aim of those people be? What advantage they have from maliciously and viciously crushing Paludis? Will they become richer? More powerful? Or it's for the women? My theory is that they're scared. Or it could just be because they enjoy hurting other people. Scared of what? Of you? My theory is that you have no clue: and that's obvious, since you can't rationalize fully what is simply a reassuring delusion. And you are not doing that. Trying to win on Volker, you are losing with everyone else. Only the irrational ones. And if you care only about rational ones, well: - if these are lies, rational people will look at facts for themselves and will stay on the rational side. So why caring at Volker's lies? - irrational people will believe to lies, but you don't care of irrational people, so, why bothering again? So, how is you are rational?
Re: [gentoo-user] virtualbox networking
Marc Joliet wrote: Am Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:25:02 +0200 schrieb pat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello, Hi, I'm trying to setup virtualbox networking. I went through the tutorial at gentoo wiki, but I have troubles ... obvious :-( In the howto there's called /sbin/ip, but I have no idea in which package this program rise ;-) you're looking for sys-apps/iproute2. I also installed VirtualBox, however when the Gentoo wiki suggested I edit a bunch of files in /etc/ I decided to go with the VirtualBox default configuration files; lo-and-behold, it works, Batman! What I need is the bidirectional communication between host and guest. Sorry, but I can't help you there, though I'm going to sit down and set that up myself when I have time (this year, I hope ;) ). I currently have all my virtual machines configured to use the PCnet-FAST III (Am79C973) virtual network adapter. This was because the Intel PRO/1000 virtual network card often mentioned in the Gentoo wiki isn't available for some reason. I have the virtual adapter attached to NAT and I can mount host machines NFS/Samba shares from inside the virtual machine. What kind of bidirectional communication are you looking for? I'm sure that if you setup a virtual network adapter that the guest OS recognizes you can SSH from the virtual machine into the host machine, or perhaps this is not what you had in mind. I just tested SSH on my Ubuntu virtual machine, and I can SSH into the host machine and other machines on my home network. However, what I *can't* do is ssh into the virtual machine from any computer, including the host machine, on my network. Then again, there may be some sly way to do this that I am not aware of. ;-) I currently run Ubuntu, Windows XP, and Windows Vista in virtual machines. Before the LinuxWindows flame war starts; what is the guest OS you are trying to configure client - host networking with? If it is a freely available, non-commercial OS, perhaps I can install it for you in my VirtualBox installation and test the functionality you're interested in. If you would like any direct help regarding VirtualBox, don't hesitate to send me an email directly. Here to help whenever possible, -Hal Thanks for help Pat HTH
Re: [gentoo-user] [getting on-topic I think] dial-up, switching isp's and other thoughts.
kashani wrote: Dale wrote: But isn't this true of any ISP or email host? Dale Not on my server which I run myself. Want to buy domain hosting with imap-ssl, pop3-ssl, and smpt-ssl (sorry no non ssl user connections) with no searching or archiving of your mail for $30 a year? :-) kashani But my point was, whoever owns the email server can read the emails. Right? If I used your service, would you be able to read my emails if you chose to? Not that you would but that you *could*. I would assume if a email was encrypted that would be a different story. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] I am a f*****g retard. Can you help me?
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Tuesday 16 September 2008 20:43:06 Dale wrote: I have used --skipfirst before but I also don't think it is a good idea. For a idiot like me to say that must mean something. I guess it would depend on the package as to whether it could be skipped or not. If I do a emerge -e world, I prefer nothing to fail else what is the point? Sometimes stuff does fail - you can't fully know beforehand if an ebuild will succeed or not. --skipfirst is perfectly safe if you have looked at the package list and know that there's no dependency issues. The danger is blindly resuming without understanding the consequences. For example, lets assume there's a package called alan-fonts-meta which depends on 20 fancy wingding-type fonts. Lets also assume that I was a dork when coding one font ebuild at 4am and botched the SRC_URI. That ebuild will fail, but you know for sure that you can safely --resume --skipfirst (followed by a scathing email with a blunt instrument as payload). Other examples exist. OTOH, if the expat upgrade of some months ago failed, a blind resume would likely have caused endless troubles. That was my point in a round about way. If you don't know, don't use --skipfirst since it could mess up some stuff and turn your puter into a mess after logging out or a reboot. I'm thinking some of the more serious system packages with that. Me, I don't even claim to know so I either ask or fix what borked. LOL Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] virtualbox networking
Quoting Hal Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What kind of bidirectional communication are you looking for? OP wants to be able to run services on the guest. AFAIK, the only way to do that is setting up a bridge. This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
Re: [gentoo-user] [getting on-topic I think] dial-up, switching isp's and other thoughts.
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 02:32:54AM -0500, Dale wrote: For me, I have the following biggies: Inbox: ~660 Gentoo-dev: ~13,000 Gentoo-user: ~27,000 Kde-linux list: ~3,000 LVM: ~2,200 Hey Dale - just out of curiosity, why do you store mailing lists when they're all available online? festus -- I just wanna break even. pgph1aJJz9xHG.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo video camera security system
Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace.net.au writes: Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:40:11 -0700, Grant wrote: I think USB cameras would be the way to go. Does anyone know of a USB camera that works well with Gentoo? You can also use standard composite output security cameras, connected to a TV card with a composite input. except that you then have to provide power to the camera as well, and composite is pretty bad at interference over long distances, especially if you're running AC next to it! RG59 coax cable can be problematic, but should work to at least 900 ft. RG6 is better (steel coated with copper in the coax core) that RG9. Power runs, particularly AC are OK to cross (perpendicular) but shot not be run parallel for more than a few feet. If the cameras use AC (many ntsc cameras do) then a single point of grounding common for the AC power supply and the cameras is best. Sometimes isolation devices and filters have to be used on either the coax, the power circuits or both. RG6 cable should get you at least 1600 feet. On the other hand, I've run composite without amplification about 30 meters in a proper shielded environment, and had a clear (as the original) picture at the other end. I don't know how USB would go over that distance... I do, I design and supervise commercial video installations for industrial clients. USB cameras put the reliance on your webcam drivers working, composite cameras put the reliance on your TV card. And TV cards with multiple inputs can start to get expensive, but most cheap motherboards have multiple usb nowadays. QSee makes inexpensive cards that will perform 'frame grabbing'. Before transmitting you have to *ENCODE* the video. The encoding process is mathematically intensive (expensive) and runs best on a DSP such as the 6000 series from TI or a FPGA that has a custom processor for video processing implemented in hardware. Using a smoking 64 bit machine (Intel or AMD) will get you one to 2 channels of real time encoding, at best. Now receiving H.264 or any other encoded video stream and playing it back for viewing (mplayer, vlc mpeg4IP etc) that's more reasonable. This is the the best (cheapest) for hobbyist (webcams or ntsc(pal) frame grabber boards for a (local) campus setting. If you are going to re-transmit the video (stream it) over a WAN or the Internet you've got a host of other issues to deal with. If this is the goal, save yourself lots of grief and use H.264. It's better that the finest system made/deployed by Pelco, Digital Micro, GE or Honeywell ever dreamed of. Sure those big name systems have billions of feature that *nobody* ever uses, but the quality or the quality for a given amount of bandwidth you use; that war is over H.264 has whipped all competitors, include what-ever-patented-wavelet or anything thing else. I know, I've spent years deep in the mathematics of these issues, put code on FPGA, and used dev kits from TI (Da Vinci) and many others... H.264 rules and all other video encoding (although well intentioned) drooles http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9005 http://www.balooga.com/mpeg4.php3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264 http://www.pixeltools.com/h264_paper.html http://mpeg4ip.sourceforge.net/features/index.php http://www.videolan.org/developers/x264.html And if you really want to dive into video encoding, check out this crazy Russian (actually a friend of mine). http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?title=Main_Page Audrey has open source camera designs that run mjpeg or Ogg Theora. James
Re: [gentoo-user] [getting on-topic I think] dial-up, switching isp's and other thoughts.
John J. Foster wrote: On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 02:32:54AM -0500, Dale wrote: For me, I have the following biggies: Inbox: ~660 Gentoo-dev: ~13,000 Gentoo-user: ~27,000 Kde-linux list: ~3,000 LVM: ~2,200 Hey Dale - just out of curiosity, why do you store mailing lists when they're all available online? festus Because if something breaks and I can't get online, I can at least search them locally. I have had trouble getting online because of a upgrade before. Sort of fun when that happens. That said, I'm part pack rat. I try to save anything that has some value left to it. I do throw away junk tho. Spam hits the road after a few days, after I report it of course. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] root on raid 1 = no boot
Volker Armin Hemmann a écrit: and in grub.conf I have this: title=raid root (hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/md1 md=1,/dev/sda3,/dev/sdb3 nopat Did you tried this : kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/md1 md=1,1,/dev/sda3,/dev/sdb3 nopat -- Nicolas Sebrecht
Re: [gentoo-user] root on raid 1 = no boot
On Wednesday 17 September 2008, Nicolas Sebrecht wrote: Volker Armin Hemmann a écrit: and in grub.conf I have this: title=raid root (hd0,0) kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/md1 md=1,/dev/sda3,/dev/sdb3 nopat Did you tried this : kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/md1 md=1,1,/dev/sda3,/dev/sdb3 nopat nope. Why the second one?
Re: [gentoo-user] virtualbox networking
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 14:25, pat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I'm trying to setup virtualbox networking. I went through the tutorial at gentoo wiki, but I have troubles ... obvious :-( In the howto there's called /sbin/ip, but I have no idea in which package this program rise ;-) What I need is the bidirectional communication between host and guest. When you say tutorial, do you mean http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO:_VirtualBox ? That's what Norberto seems to have used. You should definitely look into dnsmasq as well. It allows all my boxes to see all other boxes (including VirtualBoxes). (I added a little script that updates /etc/hosts on my server.)
Re: [gentoo-user] virtualbox networking
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 17:07, Hal Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marc Joliet wrote: Am Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:25:02 +0200 schrieb pat [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I also installed VirtualBox, however when the Gentoo wiki suggested I edit a bunch of files in /etc/ I decided to go with the VirtualBox default configuration files; lo-and-behold, it works, Batman! The default uses NAT so that you're not visible from the little network that VirtualBox sets up for you. Hence, if you need *bi*directional access you must use Host Interface and to get that working you need the bridge stuff.
