[gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Nikos Chantziaras arcor.de> writes: > > Then something is wrong with your box or it isn't powerful enough. > It isn't. > > Works perfectly in mine. > Same here (at home.) Nikos, I had a problem with a dual (amd) machine once. I dropped MAKEOPTS="-j3" to "-j1" for a while and the workstation was fine. After some months I rebuild every thing and it was then fine. to use -j2. I'd be curious to see how it affect your problem with -j1 set? James
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On 20:31 Sat 27 Dec , Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > Another reason I > didn't put Gentoo on the server is because everyone would start > spamming > the forums about lag when I emerge -u world while they're getting frags > in Counter-Strike :P set PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 in /etc/make.conf >>> I'll just hay "ah, ah, ah" at that one :P OK, I'll also say that it >>> doesn't work. Everything lags even with 19. >> Is that measurable? > > On my Gentoo at home, yes. The mouse cursor skips, scrolling gets > skippy/laggy too. I have a dual core e6...@3.33ghz with 4GB DDR2 RAM. > Interesting, i have the niceness set to 19 and i dont feel a thing with regular stuff that you mention; browser is responsive(i keep many tabs open at a time) and other simple things are fine. I am on relatively lower specs: AMD64 X2 2.09Ghz and 2gigs of ram. I hope you are not running some kind of cpu-throttling program (aka cpufrequtils). The point is you dont update gcc/glibc/kdelibs/heavyweights everyday. Thats where the lag should happen(due to disk I/O and not due to todays processors). As for the smaller packages the effect is negligible wrt the benefits gained. It is disappointing that even today so much hype is created about compiling. I mean when i am not emerging the cpu sits idle at (0-3)% , isnt it nice that we use our multi-core beasts.Obviously for those that run on lower specs options and workarounds are available. > > With all that being said, I prefer Gentoo of course. I've been through > Debian, Ubuntu, Slackware, Mandriva/Mandrake, CentOS, Fedora and openSUSE > on my desktop PC. I finally settled with Gentoo; it's beats all of 'em. > But it needs more attention to keep it healthy and clean. So I don't use it > for the servers. More free time for me that way :P > A properly configured server by its very nature shouldn't need much tinkering, regardless what distro you run on it. The choice narrows down to basically the admins knowhow and the organizations compelling needs. I don't understand why Gentoo should not be easy to maintain as a server. A server has fewer software hence fewer updates(ideally only security fixes-- GLSA?). Gentoo provides magnificent tool eselect (Linux retards should be able to use it!!). So, Gentoo as a server FTW !! Regards, Man Shankar
[gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Nikos Chantziaras arcor.de> writes: > > set PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 in /etc/make.conf > I'll just hay "ah, ah, ah" at that one :P OK, I'll also say that it > doesn't work. Everything lags even with 19. OK then 'renice' the game and other critical software to somewhere between -1 and -5. There many other tricks to keep critical resources running smoothly, depending on a variety of details. James
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Monday December 29 2008 19:38:48 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > Norberto Bensa wrote: > > I'm currently compiling gcc-4.3.2-r2, I have no cursor lagging, stuck, > > or whatever. Everything is normal. Like if I were not compiling at all. > > I've just emerged glibc (with -j2). I use -j5 (yeah, I know, I'm a masochist...) The ebuild forces -j1 but only for postinstall IIRC. > It's especially noticeable with it. > Some source files, especially at the beginning of the build, are very > short and result in a lot processes getting spawned and terminated very > fast, along with files rapidly created on disk. Can you give glibc a test? I'm doing it right now. Nothing really noticeable. I'm also running Windows XP under VirtualBox (2.1.0) with 512MB RAM+16MB video and I'm watching an AVI movie with mplayer. I have 2GB of RAM in this box BTW. > > I've checked my config and can't find anything wrong. I have tickless, me too (on the desktop; my notebook doesn't boot with tickless) > preempt, me too > 1000Hz, -O2, CFQ. me too, me too, me too. > Maybe it's due to fglrx? (ATI Catalyst driver.) Ah... I don't know. I never used ATIs. NVidia 8600GT here. How does your /proc/interrupts look like?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Monday December 29 2008 11:24:40 Dale wrote: > > Dale wrote: > >> [...] I can't say > >> that I have > >> ever heard of evdev before. > > [...] > Is this required for the new kernels? Nope. I just wanted you to test other device drivers.
[gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Norberto Bensa wrote: Quoting Nikos Chantziaras : It got worse with kernel 2.6.28, btw, especially mouse cursor movement. It gets stuck and skips very noticeably. Fortunately, it's not a point yet where I would describe it as unusable, but if the trend continues, desktop will be totally unusable by 2.6.31/32 when doing something that produces load. Oh pleeeaase... You have a broken system. Don't blame Linux for that. Could be. But you don't know for sure :P $ uname -a Linux venkman 2.6.28-gentoo #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Dec 25 16:48:22 ARST 2008 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6600 @ 2.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux I'm currently compiling gcc-4.3.2-r2, I have no cursor lagging, stuck, or whatever. Everything is normal. Like if I were not compiling at all. I've just emerged glibc (with -j2). It's especially noticeable with it. Some source files, especially at the beginning of the build, are very short and result in a lot processes getting spawned and terminated very fast, along with files rapidly created on disk. Can you give glibc a test? I've checked my config and can't find anything wrong. I have tickless, preempt, 1000Hz, -O2, CFQ. The kernel is stripped off of everything not needed. Maybe it's due to fglrx? (ATI Catalyst driver.)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 6:57 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > The cynic in me wants to say that Colin Kolivas tried telling the kernel devs > for years about it and got stone-walled and ignored for years, despite > maintaining a set of desktop patches that worked really well. Eventually he > gave up and walked away in disgust when Ingo Molnar submitted scheduler > patches that looked awfully like Colin's, and his were accepted > > I'm not that much of a cynic though. Instead I'll recommend you find a set of > desktop patches that work well and roll a kernel from those. The kernel devs > are mostly paid by organizations that have a vested interest in having Linux > work fabulously on big iron, so that's where the focus will tend to go. I read the Con Kolivas story some time ago, although frankly I didn't know what to do about it since I wanted a newer kernel after that. Any recommendations for a similar ck-like patchset or anything like it for desktop performance on later kernels? I doubt my toy boxes will really hit server bottlenecks anyway :)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 6:05 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Monday 29 December 2008 16:02:45 Mark Knecht wrote: >> On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 5:55 AM, Alan McKinnon > wrote: >> > On Monday 29 December 2008 15:32:45 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >> >> Dale wrote: >> >> > Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >> >> >> Dale wrote: >> >> >>> [...] >> >> >>> I would assume I don't have evdev here. Since I asked equery for >> >> >>> anything with dev in it, it should have listed it if it was >> >> >>> installed. That is why I ask if there was something new. I can't >> >> >>> say that I have >> >> >>> ever heard of evdev before. >> >> >> >> >> >> For X, it's the x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev package. The driver >> >> >> uses the in-kernel "event interface" driver for keyboard and mouse. >> >> >> It's in "Device Drivers->Input device support->Event interface". You >> >> >> need to configure it in xorg.conf to use it. >> >> >> >> >> >> So in other words, you don't have it ;) >> >> > >> >> > Is this required for the new kernels? If not, why does it work in the >> >> > old ones and not the new ones? Why is something not informing us it >> >> > is needed would be a good question as well. I'll make sure the new >> >> > kernel has that tho when I test it. Just in case. >> >> >> >> It's not needed nor required. It's just a different driver. I'm not >> >> sure, but I think the point of this driver is for X to support >> >> autodetected input devices. If you remove all sections for keyboard and >> >> mouse from your x.org conf, then it will autodetect them and use evdev. >> >> This must be part of the plan to get rid of xorg.conf entirely; if you >> >> delete xorg.conf, X should autodetect everything (it's not there yet I >> >> guess, but comes close.) >> > >> > For a single user conventional workstation using X.org 1.5, the X devs >> > want you to install hal and evdev, then remove xorg.conf entirely and let >> > X autodetect the lot. >> > >> > Personally, I can't wait for the day when xorg.conf on single-users >> > workstations can be trashed *entirely* >> > >> > -- >> > alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com >> >> First I've heard of this. Interesting. Is there something I should be >> reading to keep up with this sort of change? > > Google, I suppose :-) > > I first read it on an Ubuntu dev's blog, then picked up more info from > freedesktop.org when looking for debugging info for an nVidia card. i.e. I > stumbled on it purely by chance. > Thanks. I thought this comment was somehow more about Gentoo devs than Linux/xorg overall. My mistake. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Monday 29 December 2008 16:02:45 Mark Knecht wrote: > On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 5:55 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > On Monday 29 December 2008 15:32:45 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > >> Dale wrote: > >> > Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > >> >> Dale wrote: > >> >>> [...] > >> >>> I would assume I don't have evdev here. Since I asked equery for > >> >>> anything with dev in it, it should have listed it if it was > >> >>> installed. That is why I ask if there was something new. I can't > >> >>> say that I have > >> >>> ever heard of evdev before. > >> >> > >> >> For X, it's the x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev package. The driver > >> >> uses the in-kernel "event interface" driver for keyboard and mouse. > >> >> It's in "Device Drivers->Input device support->Event interface". You > >> >> need to configure it in xorg.conf to use it. > >> >> > >> >> So in other words, you don't have it ;) > >> > > >> > Is this required for the new kernels? If not, why does it work in the > >> > old ones and not the new ones? Why is something not informing us it > >> > is needed would be a good question as well. I'll make sure the new > >> > kernel has that tho when I test it. Just in case. > >> > >> It's not needed nor required. It's just a different driver. I'm not > >> sure, but I think the point of this driver is for X to support > >> autodetected input devices. If you remove all sections for keyboard and > >> mouse from your x.org conf, then it will autodetect them and use evdev. > >> This must be part of the plan to get rid of xorg.conf entirely; if you > >> delete xorg.conf, X should autodetect everything (it's not there yet I > >> guess, but comes close.) > > > > For a single user conventional workstation using X.org 1.5, the X devs > > want you to install hal and evdev, then remove xorg.conf entirely and let > > X autodetect the lot. > > > > Personally, I can't wait for the day when xorg.conf on single-users > > workstations can be trashed *entirely* > > > > -- > > alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com > > First I've heard of this. Interesting. Is there something I should be > reading to keep up with this sort of change? Google, I suppose :-) I first read it on an Ubuntu dev's blog, then picked up more info from freedesktop.org when looking for debugging info for an nVidia card. i.e. I stumbled on it purely by chance. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 5:55 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Monday 29 December 2008 15:32:45 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >> Dale wrote: >> > Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >> >> Dale wrote: >> >>> [...] >> >>> I would assume I don't have evdev here. Since I asked equery for >> >>> anything with dev in it, it should have listed it if it was >> >>> installed. That is why I ask if there was something new. I can't say >> >>> that I have >> >>> ever heard of evdev before. >> >> >> >> For X, it's the x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev package. The driver uses >> >> the in-kernel "event interface" driver for keyboard and mouse. It's >> >> in "Device Drivers->Input device support->Event interface". You need >> >> to configure it in xorg.conf to use it. >> >> >> >> So in other words, you don't have it ;) >> > >> > Is this required for the new kernels? If not, why does it work in the >> > old ones and not the new ones? Why is something not informing us it is >> > needed would be a good question as well. I'll make sure the new kernel >> > has that tho when I test it. Just in case. >> >> It's not needed nor required. It's just a different driver. I'm not >> sure, but I think the point of this driver is for X to support >> autodetected input devices. If you remove all sections for keyboard and >> mouse from your x.org conf, then it will autodetect them and use evdev. >> This must be part of the plan to get rid of xorg.conf entirely; if you >> delete xorg.conf, X should autodetect everything (it's not there yet I >> guess, but comes close.) > > For a single user conventional workstation using X.org 1.5, the X devs want > you to install hal and evdev, then remove xorg.conf entirely and let X > autodetect the lot. > > Personally, I can't wait for the day when xorg.conf on single-users > workstations can be trashed *entirely* > > -- > alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com First I've heard of this. Interesting. Is there something I should be reading to keep up with this sort of change? Thanks, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Monday 29 December 2008 15:32:45 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > Dale wrote: > > Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > >> Dale wrote: > >>> [...] > >>> I would assume I don't have evdev here. Since I asked equery for > >>> anything with dev in it, it should have listed it if it was > >>> installed. That is why I ask if there was something new. I can't say > >>> that I have > >>> ever heard of evdev before. > >> > >> For X, it's the x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev package. The driver uses > >> the in-kernel "event interface" driver for keyboard and mouse. It's > >> in "Device Drivers->Input device support->Event interface". You need > >> to configure it in xorg.conf to use it. > >> > >> So in other words, you don't have it ;) > > > > Is this required for the new kernels? If not, why does it work in the > > old ones and not the new ones? Why is something not informing us it is > > needed would be a good question as well. I'll make sure the new kernel > > has that tho when I test it. Just in case. > > It's not needed nor required. It's just a different driver. I'm not > sure, but I think the point of this driver is for X to support > autodetected input devices. If you remove all sections for keyboard and > mouse from your x.org conf, then it will autodetect them and use evdev. > This must be part of the plan to get rid of xorg.conf entirely; if you > delete xorg.conf, X should autodetect everything (it's not there yet I > guess, but comes close.) For a single user conventional workstation using X.org 1.5, the X devs want you to install hal and evdev, then remove xorg.conf entirely and let X autodetect the lot. Personally, I can't wait for the day when xorg.conf on single-users workstations can be trashed *entirely* -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > Dale wrote: >> Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >>> Dale wrote: [...] I would assume I don't have evdev here. Since I asked equery for anything with dev in it, it should have listed it if it was installed. That is why I ask if there was something new. I can't say that I have ever heard of evdev before. >>> For X, it's the x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev package. The driver uses >>> the in-kernel "event interface" driver for keyboard and mouse. It's >>> in "Device Drivers->Input device support->Event interface". You need >>> to configure it in xorg.conf to use it. >>> >>> So in other words, you don't have it ;) >> >> Is this required for the new kernels? If not, why does it work in the >> old ones and not the new ones? Why is something not informing us it is >> needed would be a good question as well. I'll make sure the new kernel >> has that tho when I test it. Just in case. > > It's not needed nor required. It's just a different driver. I'm not > sure, but I think the point of this driver is for X to support > autodetected input devices. If you remove all sections for keyboard > and mouse from your x.org conf, then it will autodetect them and use > evdev. This must be part of the plan to get rid of xorg.conf > entirely; if you delete xorg.conf, X should autodetect everything > (it's not there yet I guess, but comes close.) > > > I enabled that in the kernel. While I don't hate nano, I would rather not have to use it. LOL I'll report what happens whenever I get to reboot again. I usually only reboot when the power company falls off the stick. o_O Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Dale wrote: Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Dale wrote: [...] I would assume I don't have evdev here. Since I asked equery for anything with dev in it, it should have listed it if it was installed. That is why I ask if there was something new. I can't say that I have ever heard of evdev before. For X, it's the x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev package. The driver uses the in-kernel "event interface" driver for keyboard and mouse. It's in "Device Drivers->Input device support->Event interface". You need to configure it in xorg.conf to use it. So in other words, you don't have it ;) Is this required for the new kernels? If not, why does it work in the old ones and not the new ones? Why is something not informing us it is needed would be a good question as well. I'll make sure the new kernel has that tho when I test it. Just in case. It's not needed nor required. It's just a different driver. I'm not sure, but I think the point of this driver is for X to support autodetected input devices. If you remove all sections for keyboard and mouse from your x.org conf, then it will autodetect them and use evdev. This must be part of the plan to get rid of xorg.conf entirely; if you delete xorg.conf, X should autodetect everything (it's not there yet I guess, but comes close.)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > Dale wrote: >> [...] >> I would assume I don't have evdev here. Since I asked equery for >> anything with dev in it, it should have listed it if it was >> installed. That is why I ask if there was something new. I can't say >> that I have >> ever heard of evdev before. > > For X, it's the x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev package. The driver uses > the in-kernel "event interface" driver for keyboard and mouse. It's > in "Device Drivers->Input device support->Event interface". You need > to configure it in xorg.conf to use it. > > So in other words, you don't have it ;) > > > Is this required for the new kernels? If not, why does it work in the old ones and not the new ones? Why is something not informing us it is needed would be a good question as well. I'll make sure the new kernel has that tho when I test it. Just in case. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Dale wrote: [...] I would assume I don't have evdev here. Since I asked equery for anything with dev in it, it should have listed it if it was installed. That is why I ask if there was something new. I can't say that I have ever heard of evdev before. For X, it's the x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev package. The driver uses the in-kernel "event interface" driver for keyboard and mouse. It's in "Device Drivers->Input device support->Event interface". You need to configure it in xorg.conf to use it. So in other words, you don't have it ;)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Mick wrote: > On Monday 29 December 2008, Dale wrote: > >> Norberto Bensa wrote: >> > > >>> Do you use evdev? >>> > > >> This is what I have installed according to equery: >> >> r...@smoker / # equery list dev >> [ Searching for package 'dev' in all categories among: ] >> * installed packages >> [I--] [ ~] kde-base/kdewebdev-meta-3.5.10 (3.5) >> [I--] [ ] sys-fs/device-mapper-1.02.24-r1 (0) >> [I--] [ ] sys-fs/udev-124-r1 (0) >> r...@smoker / # >> >> Point is, the only thing that changes is the kernel. Same KDE, same >> user, same everything except for the kernel. Is there something >> different that the new kernels require with regard to udev? Do I need a >> newer unstable udev installed for the new kernels? >> > > The package/driver is evdev (not udev). > > I wouldn't be joining the chorus of disgruntled users pointing at half baked > kernels with problematic drivers because kernels (for me) have been pretty > stable for years now. However, that was before 2.6.27-gentoo-r7. My problem > seems to be two fold: > > a)Looong delay (around a whole minute or so) waiting on the penguin logo > before the kernel is loaded and the main boot up occurs. > b)My sound card is not recognised by alsa which barfs and never loads. > > I have posted on a different thread (which has not attracted any responses) > > http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/207339 > > and I assume that my kernel problems are not that common in the Gentoo user > community. I haven't yet posted a bug on it - but if subsequent kernels do > not fix it and my confidence that I have not performed some kernel > configuration error increases I will do so. After all without bug reports > how would the devs know what's borked for the users? > Well, I use make oldconfig and generally say no to the new stuff. That way I have the same config as the old but with bug fixes. That has worked for me for a long time but once I get past 2.6.23, I have trouble with it. I would assume I don't have evdev here. Since I asked equery for anything with dev in it, it should have listed it if it was installed. That is why I ask if there was something new. I can't say that I have ever heard of evdev before. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Monday 29 December 2008, Dale wrote: > Norberto Bensa wrote: > > Do you use evdev? > This is what I have installed according to equery: > > r...@smoker / # equery list dev > [ Searching for package 'dev' in all categories among: ] > * installed packages > [I--] [ ~] kde-base/kdewebdev-meta-3.5.10 (3.5) > [I--] [ ] sys-fs/device-mapper-1.02.24-r1 (0) > [I--] [ ] sys-fs/udev-124-r1 (0) > r...@smoker / # > > Point is, the only thing that changes is the kernel. Same KDE, same > user, same everything except for the kernel. Is there something > different that the new kernels require with regard to udev? Do I need a > newer unstable udev installed for the new kernels? The package/driver is evdev (not udev). I wouldn't be joining the chorus of disgruntled users pointing at half baked kernels with problematic drivers because kernels (for me) have been pretty stable for years now. However, that was before 2.6.27-gentoo-r7. My problem seems to be two fold: a)Looong delay (around a whole minute or so) waiting on the penguin logo before the kernel is loaded and the main boot up occurs. b)My sound card is not recognised by alsa which barfs and never loads. I have posted on a different thread (which has not attracted any responses) http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/207339 and I assume that my kernel problems are not that common in the Gentoo user community. I haven't yet posted a bug on it - but if subsequent kernels do not fix it and my confidence that I have not performed some kernel configuration error increases I will do so. After all without bug reports how would the devs know what's borked for the users? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Norberto Bensa wrote: > Quoting Dale : > >> It is software on mine. I can boot the new kernels and it is jumpy as >> crap. It is really slow to respond and when it does, it just jerks all >> over the place and is difficult to click on links and buttons. I can >> reboot with the old kernel and it works fine, just like it should. Same >> mouse, same computer, same everything except a different kernel. I can >> repeat that process and get the same results every time. > > Do you use evdev? > > > > > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > > > This is what I have installed according to equery: r...@smoker / # equery list dev [ Searching for package 'dev' in all categories among: ] * installed packages [I--] [ ~] kde-base/kdewebdev-meta-3.5.10 (3.5) [I--] [ ] sys-fs/device-mapper-1.02.24-r1 (0) [I--] [ ] sys-fs/udev-124-r1 (0) r...@smoker / # Point is, the only thing that changes is the kernel. Same KDE, same user, same everything except for the kernel. Is there something different that the new kernels require with regard to udev? Do I need a newer unstable udev installed for the new kernels? Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Quoting Dale : It is software on mine. I can boot the new kernels and it is jumpy as crap. It is really slow to respond and when it does, it just jerks all over the place and is difficult to click on links and buttons. I can reboot with the old kernel and it works fine, just like it should. Same mouse, same computer, same everything except a different kernel. I can repeat that process and get the same results every time. Do you use evdev? This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Norberto Bensa wrote: > Quoting Nikos Chantziaras : > >> It got worse with kernel 2.6.28, btw, especially mouse cursor movement. >> It gets stuck and skips very noticeably. Fortunately, it's not a >> point yet where I would describe it as unusable, but if the trend >> continues, desktop will be totally unusable by 2.6.31/32 when doing >> something that produces load. > > Oh pleeeaase... > > You have a broken system. Don't blame Linux for that. > > $ uname -a > Linux venkman 2.6.28-gentoo #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Dec 25 16:48:22 ARST > 2008 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6600 @ 2.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux > > I'm currently compiling gcc-4.3.2-r2, I have no cursor lagging, stuck, > or whatever. Everything is normal. Like if I were not compiling at all. > > So check your kernel config, your hardware, etc. > > Regards, > Norberto > > > > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > > > You should see my other reply to someone else in this thread. I can copy and paste if you can't find it. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Quoting Nikos Chantziaras : It got worse with kernel 2.6.28, btw, especially mouse cursor movement. It gets stuck and skips very noticeably. Fortunately, it's not a point yet where I would describe it as unusable, but if the trend continues, desktop will be totally unusable by 2.6.31/32 when doing something that produces load. Oh pleeeaase... You have a broken system. Don't blame Linux for that. $ uname -a Linux venkman 2.6.28-gentoo #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Dec 25 16:48:22 ARST 2008 x86_64 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6600 @ 2.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux I'm currently compiling gcc-4.3.2-r2, I have no cursor lagging, stuck, or whatever. Everything is normal. Like if I were not compiling at all. So check your kernel config, your hardware, etc. Regards, Norberto This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Nicolas Sebrecht wrote: > On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 12:13:50AM -0500, Chris Thomas wrote: > > >> I have a Dell laser mouse. >> >> lsusb: >> Bus 003 Device 002: ID 413c:3010 Dell Computer Corp. Optical Wheel Mouse >> > > I'm pretty sure it isn't software related. Did you tried various mouse > pads or materials ? > > It is software on mine. I can boot the new kernels and it is jumpy as crap. It is really slow to respond and when it does, it just jerks all over the place and is difficult to click on links and buttons. I can reboot with the old kernel and it works fine, just like it should. Same mouse, same computer, same everything except a different kernel. I can repeat that process and get the same results every time. Also, it even does this when my system is not real busy. I do run folding but it will do it even when folding is not running. It is also slow to switch desktops and such as well. I can even out type the thing when booted off the newer kernels. My system: AMD 2500+ Barton CPU, 2Gbs of ram with 2 80GB IDE drives. 1GB of swap with none being used. 19 inch Gateway monitor running 1280x1024. My mouse is a optical Logitech model M-BJ58. This may be hardware for some but it is kernel here. I just built a new one, linux-2.6.27-gentoo-r7, and plan to try it next to see if I get the same results. If I do, I plan to stick with the old linux-2.6.23-gentoo-r8 until it no longer supports my hardware or something makes it not work anymore. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 12:13:50AM -0500, Chris Thomas wrote: > I have a Dell laser mouse. > > lsusb: > Bus 003 Device 002: ID 413c:3010 Dell Computer Corp. Optical Wheel Mouse I'm pretty sure it isn't software related. Did you tried various mouse pads or materials ? -- Nicolas Sebrecht
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 11:50 PM, Nicolas Sebrecht wrote: > > On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 10:49:37PM -0500, Chris Thomas wrote: > >> I'm having the same exact problem with my mouse. I'm on AMD64 and my >> cursor often jumps to a corner. >> >> Is there a fix? > > It really is a common behaviour with optical mouses. What kind of mouse > do you use ? > > PS : top-posting sucks. > > -- > Nicolas Sebrecht > > > I have a Dell laser mouse. lsusb: Bus 003 Device 002: ID 413c:3010 Dell Computer Corp. Optical Wheel Mouse xorg.conf: Section "InputDevice" Identifier "mouse" Driver "mouse" Option "CorePointer" Option "Device" "/dev/input/mouse0" Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection -Chris
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 10:49:37PM -0500, Chris Thomas wrote: > I'm having the same exact problem with my mouse. I'm on AMD64 and my > cursor often jumps to a corner. > > Is there a fix? It really is a common behaviour with optical mouses. What kind of mouse do you use ? PS : top-posting sucks. -- Nicolas Sebrecht
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
> > On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Mark Knecht wrote: >> On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Alan McKinnon >> wrote: >>> On Sunday 28 December 2008 22:52:08 Dale wrote: Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >>> > It got worse with kernel 2.6.28, btw, especially mouse cursor > movement. It gets stuck and skips very noticeably. Fortunately, it's > not a point yet where I would describe it as unusable, but if the > trend continues, desktop will be totally unusable by 2.6.31/32 when > doing something that produces load. So it is not just me that has screwy mouse movement. I been using a old kernel for a while now and even thought it was just a wrong setting on my part. Has anyone been telling the kernel folks about this problem so they can fix it or roll something back? >> >> Getting in a little late but my AMD64 machine's mouse died so I >> grabbed a VERY cheap $6 Microsoft mouse I had received for free some >> years ago and never used. It works but often jumps to one corner or >> another at odd times. It sits atop one of my Gentoo Linux mouse pads >> and I've noticed that if I turn the mouse pad 45 degrees it happens >> far more often. >> >> I figured it was just a cheap mouse. It hadn't occurred to me that it >> might be a driver issue... >> >> - Mark >> >> > > On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 7:49 PM, Chris Thomas wrote: > I'm having the same exact problem with my mouse. I'm on AMD64 and my > cursor often jumps to a corner. > > Is there a fix? > > -Chris Chris, Please bottom post. This never happened on my previous mouse which I used for a couple of years so I suspect it's specific to the mouse type - exact model, interface, etc. If the problem is bothering you the first thing I'd try is a mouse from another machine. For me it's frustrating but not causing problems. Note that my machine is dual boot and the mouse doesn't jump in Windows so this seens to be a Linux problem and not hardware. - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
I'm having the same exact problem with my mouse. I'm on AMD64 and my cursor often jumps to a corner. Is there a fix? -Chris On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 6:08 PM, Mark Knecht wrote: > On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Alan McKinnon > wrote: >> On Sunday 28 December 2008 22:52:08 Dale wrote: >>> Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >> >>> > It got worse with kernel 2.6.28, btw, especially mouse cursor >>> > movement. It gets stuck and skips very noticeably. Fortunately, it's >>> > not a point yet where I would describe it as unusable, but if the >>> > trend continues, desktop will be totally unusable by 2.6.31/32 when >>> > doing something that produces load. >>> >>> So it is not just me that has screwy mouse movement. I been using a old >>> kernel for a while now and even thought it was just a wrong setting on >>> my part. >>> >>> Has anyone been telling the kernel folks about this problem so they can >>> fix it or roll something back? > > Getting in a little late but my AMD64 machine's mouse died so I > grabbed a VERY cheap $6 Microsoft mouse I had received for free some > years ago and never used. It works but often jumps to one corner or > another at odd times. It sits atop one of my Gentoo Linux mouse pads > and I've noticed that if I turn the mouse pad 45 degrees it happens > far more often. > > I figured it was just a cheap mouse. It hadn't occurred to me that it > might be a driver issue... > > - Mark > >
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 00:57:13 +0200 Alan McKinnon wrote: ...[snip]... > This is opensource, where you get to bash the code into any shape you > need to get it to suit your needs :-) I myself don't need desktop > patches (yet), but if I did, I would probably first look at the > patches the Ubuntu kernel devs apply, followed by fedora Alan, Curiosity prompts me to ask: have you a link to Ubuntu's kernel patches? Regards, David
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Monday 29 December 2008 01:06:59 Dale wrote: > >>> I'm not that much of a cynic though. Instead I'll recommend you find a >>> set of desktop patches that work well and roll a kernel from those. The >>> kernel devs are mostly paid by organizations that have a vested interest >>> in having Linux work fabulously on big iron, so that's where the focus >>> will tend to go. >>> >>> This is opensource, where you get to bash the code into any shape you >>> need to get it to suit your needs :-) I myself don't need desktop patches >>> (yet), but if I did, I would probably first look at the patches the >>> Ubuntu kernel devs apply, followed by fedora >>> >>> >>> >>> >> I use the Gentoo sources so why don't they patch them? I've tried >> patching kernels before and it didn't work to well. >> > > You'll have to ask the gentoo devs why they apply the patches they do. After > all, not every patch set out there will suit their goals and purposes. > > I was curious if they know some desktop puters are even having this problem or not. After all, if they don't know, they won't even consider patching it then. I'm just sticking with 2.6.23 I guess. It works well. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Monday 29 December 2008 01:06:59 Dale wrote: > > I'm not that much of a cynic though. Instead I'll recommend you find a > > set of desktop patches that work well and roll a kernel from those. The > > kernel devs are mostly paid by organizations that have a vested interest > > in having Linux work fabulously on big iron, so that's where the focus > > will tend to go. > > > > This is opensource, where you get to bash the code into any shape you > > need to get it to suit your needs :-) I myself don't need desktop patches > > (yet), but if I did, I would probably first look at the patches the > > Ubuntu kernel devs apply, followed by fedora > > > > > > > > I use the Gentoo sources so why don't they patch them? I've tried > patching kernels before and it didn't work to well. You'll have to ask the gentoo devs why they apply the patches they do. After all, not every patch set out there will suit their goals and purposes. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Sunday 28 December 2008 22:52:08 Dale wrote: >> Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > >> > It got worse with kernel 2.6.28, btw, especially mouse cursor >> > movement. It gets stuck and skips very noticeably. Fortunately, it's >> > not a point yet where I would describe it as unusable, but if the >> > trend continues, desktop will be totally unusable by 2.6.31/32 when >> > doing something that produces load. >> >> So it is not just me that has screwy mouse movement. I been using a old >> kernel for a while now and even thought it was just a wrong setting on >> my part. >> >> Has anyone been telling the kernel folks about this problem so they can >> fix it or roll something back? Getting in a little late but my AMD64 machine's mouse died so I grabbed a VERY cheap $6 Microsoft mouse I had received for free some years ago and never used. It works but often jumps to one corner or another at odd times. It sits atop one of my Gentoo Linux mouse pads and I've noticed that if I turn the mouse pad 45 degrees it happens far more often. I figured it was just a cheap mouse. It hadn't occurred to me that it might be a driver issue... - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Sunday 28 December 2008 22:52:08 Dale wrote: > >> Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >> > > >>> It got worse with kernel 2.6.28, btw, especially mouse cursor >>> movement. It gets stuck and skips very noticeably. Fortunately, it's >>> not a point yet where I would describe it as unusable, but if the >>> trend continues, desktop will be totally unusable by 2.6.31/32 when >>> doing something that produces load. >>> >> So it is not just me that has screwy mouse movement. I been using a old >> kernel for a while now and even thought it was just a wrong setting on >> my part. >> >> Has anyone been telling the kernel folks about this problem so they can >> fix it or roll something back? >> > > The cynic in me wants to say that Colin Kolivas tried telling the kernel devs > for years about it and got stone-walled and ignored for years, despite > maintaining a set of desktop patches that worked really well. Eventually he > gave up and walked away in disgust when Ingo Molnar submitted scheduler > patches that looked awfully like Colin's, and his were accepted > > I'm not that much of a cynic though. Instead I'll recommend you find a set of > desktop patches that work well and roll a kernel from those. The kernel devs > are mostly paid by organizations that have a vested interest in having Linux > work fabulously on big iron, so that's where the focus will tend to go. > > This is opensource, where you get to bash the code into any shape you need to > get it to suit your needs :-) I myself don't need desktop patches (yet), but > if I did, I would probably first look at the patches the Ubuntu kernel devs > apply, followed by fedora > > > I use the Gentoo sources so why don't they patch them? I've tried patching kernels before and it didn't work to well. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Sunday 28 December 2008 22:52:08 Dale wrote: > Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > > It got worse with kernel 2.6.28, btw, especially mouse cursor > > movement. It gets stuck and skips very noticeably. Fortunately, it's > > not a point yet where I would describe it as unusable, but if the > > trend continues, desktop will be totally unusable by 2.6.31/32 when > > doing something that produces load. > > So it is not just me that has screwy mouse movement. I been using a old > kernel for a while now and even thought it was just a wrong setting on > my part. > > Has anyone been telling the kernel folks about this problem so they can > fix it or roll something back? The cynic in me wants to say that Colin Kolivas tried telling the kernel devs for years about it and got stone-walled and ignored for years, despite maintaining a set of desktop patches that worked really well. Eventually he gave up and walked away in disgust when Ingo Molnar submitted scheduler patches that looked awfully like Colin's, and his were accepted I'm not that much of a cynic though. Instead I'll recommend you find a set of desktop patches that work well and roll a kernel from those. The kernel devs are mostly paid by organizations that have a vested interest in having Linux work fabulously on big iron, so that's where the focus will tend to go. This is opensource, where you get to bash the code into any shape you need to get it to suit your needs :-) I myself don't need desktop patches (yet), but if I did, I would probably first look at the patches the Ubuntu kernel devs apply, followed by fedora -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> On Saturday 27 December 2008 21:13:49 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>> I have this in my make.conf:
>>>
>>>PORTAGE_IONICE_COMMAND="ionice -c 3 -p \${PID}"
>>>
>>> Helped a bit. But still the GUI (KDE 3.5.10) gets pretty laggy.
>>> Just a
>>> few hours ago I updated to gcc-4.3.2-r1. Even with nice 19 and ionice
>>> 3, lag is there.
>>>
>>> I hope someone finds the magic button in the kernel config to fix
>>> that :P
>>
>> There isn't one - at least not one that really works.
>>
>> Linux mostly ignores NICE and has done so since day one. The reason
>> according to Linux himself on some LKML post quite a while back is
>> that Linux has a semi-decent task scheduler and nice is a 100% manual
>> task scheduler.
>
> It got worse with kernel 2.6.28, btw, especially mouse cursor
> movement. It gets stuck and skips very noticeably. Fortunately, it's
> not a point yet where I would describe it as unusable, but if the
> trend continues, desktop will be totally unusable by 2.6.31/32 when
> doing something that produces load.
>
>
>
So it is not just me that has screwy mouse movement. I been using a old
kernel for a while now and even thought it was just a wrong setting on
my part.
Has anyone been telling the kernel folks about this problem so they can
fix it or roll something back?
Dale
:-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 2:07 AM, Mick wrote: > On Saturday 27 December 2008, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >> >> Another reason I >> >> didn't put Gentoo on the server is because everyone would start spamming >> >> the forums about lag when I emerge -u world while they're getting frags >> >> in Counter-Strike :P >> > >> > set PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 in /etc/make.conf >> >> I'll just hay "ah, ah, ah" at that one :P OK, I'll also say that it >> doesn't work. Everything lags even with 19. > > Is that measurable? Niceness effects are most easily noticeable for CPU bottlenecks, because context switching CPUs is relatively painless. Server loads are probably more of Memory / IO bottlenecks, and context switching between that involves disk swaps and disk prereads. If it is anything more than trivial prereads / swaps, then even a 19-niced app can cause noticeable bursts of slowdown on a modern system. Niceness isn't magic, and compiling, which could easily max out all 3 resources (CPU, memory, disk access, 4 if you add network), probably gets the least bump from niceness. Although that isn't to say that PORTAGE_NICENESS doesn't take effect. Desktop machines with a single user will probably have speed bursts small enough that it wouldn't matter. But I'd think twice if there was something intensive supposed to be done on the server.
[gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Alan McKinnon wrote:
On Saturday 27 December 2008 21:13:49 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
I have this in my make.conf:
PORTAGE_IONICE_COMMAND="ionice -c 3 -p \${PID}"
Helped a bit. But still the GUI (KDE 3.5.10) gets pretty laggy. Just a
few hours ago I updated to gcc-4.3.2-r1. Even with nice 19 and ionice
3, lag is there.
I hope someone finds the magic button in the kernel config to fix that :P
There isn't one - at least not one that really works.
Linux mostly ignores NICE and has done so since day one. The reason according
to Linux himself on some LKML post quite a while back is that Linux has a
semi-decent task scheduler and nice is a 100% manual task scheduler.
It got worse with kernel 2.6.28, btw, especially mouse cursor movement.
It gets stuck and skips very noticeably. Fortunately, it's not a
point yet where I would describe it as unusable, but if the trend
continues, desktop will be totally unusable by 2.6.31/32 when doing
something that produces load.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Saturday 27 December 2008 21:13:49 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> Dale wrote:
> > Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >> On my Gentoo at home, yes. The mouse cursor skips, scrolling gets
> >> skippy/laggy too. I have a dual core e6...@3.33ghz with 4GB DDR2 RAM.
> >
> > I have to use version 2.6.23-gentoo-r8 for my kernel or it does the same
> > thing. Someone mentioned that it is a setting in the kernel for one of
> > the new features. At some point I plan to post the info here and try to
> > figure out what setting I should use but just haven't done it yet.
> >
> > The only other thing I can think of is the drives being busy. I think
> > they have ionice now too.
>
> I have this in my make.conf:
>
>PORTAGE_IONICE_COMMAND="ionice -c 3 -p \${PID}"
>
> Helped a bit. But still the GUI (KDE 3.5.10) gets pretty laggy. Just a
> few hours ago I updated to gcc-4.3.2-r1. Even with nice 19 and ionice
> 3, lag is there.
>
> I hope someone finds the magic button in the kernel config to fix that :P
There isn't one - at least not one that really works.
Linux mostly ignores NICE and has done so since day one. The reason according
to Linux himself on some LKML post quite a while back is that Linux has a
semi-decent task scheduler and nice is a 100% manual task scheduler.
Therefore nice is not needed. It did have some uses, such as respecting nice
settings for having X if set to something very negative - makes gui apps more
responsive (X tends to use little cpu and IO time overall but users want it
to be responsive). This has largely gone away with Ingo's last task
scheduler.
On other Unixes, nice has normally been nothing more than a gentle hint to the
kernel how the admin would like the systems to treat a certain process.
That's why Linux could ignore it and get away with it.
You will likely always experience lag compiling something like gcc. It uses
gcc to build a new one, and gcc grabs enormous amounts of memory to do this.
Plus it's rather disk intensive as well. So, running gcc on a large build is
likely to produce lags anyway due to swap and IO no matter how you nice it.
More so if resources are constrained.
--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
From: Richard Cox To: Roy Wright Date: Today 01:08:51 > > Gentoo is difficult to install. A highly subjective statement to be sure. Many thousands have successfully installed it...depends on your definition of 'difficult' I suppose. >>Also, if it's left un-updated for >> longer periods of time, it tends to break on the next update. So does any dynamic system that is allowed to stagnate. May I propose a solution? Don't leave it un-updated for 'a long period of time'. It's not that hard, really...if you are super paranoid, just emerge --sync once a week and then emerge -up --deep world...I know, that's rocket science, but it can give you an up-to-date system with little trouble...assuming you have internet access, of course. Again, I suppose that depends on what you mean by 'a long period of time'. Let Debian or any other distro remain un-updated for a year or more tell me about how easy it is to update without breaking. Actually, that wasn't fair...because you are basically going to do a re-install (or version upgrade, as many distros call it these days) when that happens. On Sunday 28 December 2008 00:50:32 you wrote: > Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > > Gentoo is difficult to install. Also, if it's left un-updated for > > longer periods of time, it tends to break on the next update. I guess > > that's the downside of being versionless. Debian on the other hand, due > > to it being versioned, doesn't have that problem. > > When I ran an internal gentoo server at my last job, I would try to > schedule an update about once a month. That was a lesson learned after > the box just worked great for 7 months, then we wanted to add a new > application that needed newer libraries, that turned into a 2 day > marathon to update the server (it was old, slow hardware). > > I will predict that you will most miss portage after having to deal with > the brain dead apt package manager. > > Good Luck On Sunday 28 December 2008 00:50:32 Roy Wright wrote: > Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > > Gentoo is difficult to install. Also, if it's left un-updated for > > longer periods of time, it tends to break on the next update. I guess > > that's the downside of being versionless. Debian on the other hand, due > > to it being versioned, doesn't have that problem. > > When I ran an internal gentoo server at my last job, I would try to > schedule an update about once a month. That was a lesson learned after > the box just worked great for 7 months, then we wanted to add a new > application that needed newer libraries, that turned into a 2 day > marathon to update the server (it was old, slow hardware). > > I will predict that you will most miss portage after having to deal with > the brain dead apt package manager. > > Good Luck
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > Gentoo is difficult to install. Also, if it's left un-updated for > longer periods of time, it tends to break on the next update. I guess > that's the downside of being versionless. Debian on the other hand, due > to it being versioned, doesn't have that problem. When I ran an internal gentoo server at my last job, I would try to schedule an update about once a month. That was a lesson learned after the box just worked great for 7 months, then we wanted to add a new application that needed newer libraries, that turned into a 2 day marathon to update the server (it was old, slow hardware). I will predict that you will most miss portage after having to deal with the brain dead apt package manager. Good Luck
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: set PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 in /etc/make.conf >>> >>> I'll just hay "ah, ah, ah" at that one :P OK, I'll also say that it >>> doesn't work. Everything lags even with 19. >> >> Is that measurable? > > On my Gentoo at home, yes. The mouse cursor skips, scrolling gets > skippy/laggy too. I have a dual core e6...@3.33ghz with 4GB DDR2 RAM. It's weird, I have the same CPU (overclock to 3.00GHz) and have no lags like that at all when compiling with portage_niceness of 19, it's totally transparent... in my kernel config i have it set to CFQ i/o scheduler, tickless system, preemptable kernel, SLAB... i don't know what else might cause it other than driver/hardware difference. I'm using an Nvidia chipset with sata_nv driver and SATA disks. I'm also using /dev/shm for the portage_tmpdir to reduce disk activity. Paul
[gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Norberto Bensa wrote: Quoting Nikos Chantziaras : On my Gentoo at home, yes. The mouse cursor skips, scrolling gets skippy/laggy too. I have a dual core e6...@3.33ghz with 4GB DDR2 RAM. Just like me, but I have it set to default clock: 2.4GHz. Beyond that, it gets somewhat funny :-/ I bought a CPU cooler the size of skyscraper though; it barely fits in the tower ;P At stock 2.4GHz, it's a bit more laggy with heavy load. Are you sure your HDs run with DMA enabled? SATA shouldn't have this problem, but as technology gets cheaper, you never know :( It's SATA. It appears that the kernel gets slower and slower and more "laggy" on desktops with every release. Servers seem to get happier though. I hope they don't totally abandon the desktop at some point :P
[gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Norberto Bensa wrote: Quoting Nikos Chantziaras : Why? Does Gentoo forget how to do something? Why can't you just "set and forget" your Gentoo boxes? Gentoo is difficult to install. For who? And BTW, that doesn't answer the question. Huh? I answered it right next in the next phrase. Also, if it's left un-updated for longer periods of time, it tends to break on the next update Maybe, but only if you go from abi-1 to abi-2. For example, you can't expect moving from gcc-2 to gcc-3 to gcc-4 being painless. Indeed. . I guess that's the downside of being versionless. Debian on the other hand, due to it being versioned, doesn't have that problem. I can't move debian from tomato to lenny without problems. I was lucky though and it worked. Anyway, that's not the point. set PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 in /etc/make.conf I'll just hay "ah, ah, ah" at that one :P OK, I'll also say that it doesn't work. Everything lags even with 19. Then something is wrong with your box or it isn't powerful enough. It isn't. Works perfectly in mine. Same here (at home.)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Quoting Nikos Chantziaras : On my Gentoo at home, yes. The mouse cursor skips, scrolling gets skippy/laggy too. I have a dual core e6...@3.33ghz with 4GB DDR2 RAM. Just like me, but I have it set to default clock: 2.4GHz. Beyond that, it gets somewhat funny :-/ Are you sure your HDs run with DMA enabled? SATA shouldn't have this problem, but as technology gets cheaper, you never know :( With all that being said, I prefer Gentoo of course. I've been through Debian, Ubuntu, Slackware, Mandriva/Mandrake, CentOS, Fedora and openSUSE on my desktop PC. I prefer Linux in all its forms :) Regards, Norberto This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
[gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Dale wrote:
Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
On my Gentoo at home, yes. The mouse cursor skips, scrolling gets
skippy/laggy too. I have a dual core e6...@3.33ghz with 4GB DDR2 RAM.
I have to use version 2.6.23-gentoo-r8 for my kernel or it does the same
thing. Someone mentioned that it is a setting in the kernel for one of
the new features. At some point I plan to post the info here and try to
figure out what setting I should use but just haven't done it yet.
The only other thing I can think of is the drives being busy. I think
they have ionice now too.
I have this in my make.conf:
PORTAGE_IONICE_COMMAND="ionice -c 3 -p \${PID}"
Helped a bit. But still the GUI (KDE 3.5.10) gets pretty laggy. Just a
few hours ago I updated to gcc-4.3.2-r1. Even with nice 19 and ionice
3, lag is there.
I hope someone finds the magic button in the kernel config to fix that :P
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Quoting Nikos Chantziaras : Why? Does Gentoo forget how to do something? Why can't you just "set and forget" your Gentoo boxes? Gentoo is difficult to install. For who? And BTW, that doesn't answer the question. Also, if it's left un-updated for longer periods of time, it tends to break on the next update Maybe, but only if you go from abi-1 to abi-2. For example, you can't expect moving from gcc-2 to gcc-3 to gcc-4 being painless. . I guess that's the downside of being versionless. Debian on the other hand, due to it being versioned, doesn't have that problem. I can't move debian from tomato to lenny without problems. set PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 in /etc/make.conf I'll just hay "ah, ah, ah" at that one :P OK, I'll also say that it doesn't work. Everything lags even with 19. Then something is wrong with your box or it isn't powerful enough. Works perfectly in mine. Bye This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > > On my Gentoo at home, yes. The mouse cursor skips, scrolling gets > skippy/laggy too. I have a dual core e6...@3.33ghz with 4GB DDR2 RAM. > I have to use version 2.6.23-gentoo-r8 for my kernel or it does the same thing. Someone mentioned that it is a setting in the kernel for one of the new features. At some point I plan to post the info here and try to figure out what setting I should use but just haven't done it yet. The only other thing I can think of is the drives being busy. I think they have ionice now too. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Mick wrote: On Saturday 27 December 2008, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Norberto Bensa wrote: Why? Does Gentoo forget how to do something? Why can't you just "set and forget" your Gentoo boxes? Gentoo is difficult to install. Well, it's not really difficult - but it takes awfully longer than running a binary distro install. That's why I do it at home :) For the servers, less work is better (yes, I'm ashamed of this, but not ashamed enough to keep me from doing it ;D) I guess that's the downside of being versionless. Debian on the other hand, due to it being versioned, doesn't have that problem. Hmm ... so then, how would you upgrade from one version of Debian to another? I tried to do something like that with Ubuntu and the darn thing never booted again! Had to wipe the drive clean and reinstall. On Debian, I simply changed all the string in /etc/apt/sources.list from "etch" to "lenny" and ran "aptitude dist-update". I crossed my fingers. I was relieved to see it just worked. I updated from Etch to Lenny in 10 minutes :P Another reason I didn't put Gentoo on the server is because everyone would start spamming the forums about lag when I emerge -u world while they're getting frags in Counter-Strike :P set PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 in /etc/make.conf I'll just hay "ah, ah, ah" at that one :P OK, I'll also say that it doesn't work. Everything lags even with 19. Is that measurable? On my Gentoo at home, yes. The mouse cursor skips, scrolling gets skippy/laggy too. I have a dual core e6...@3.33ghz with 4GB DDR2 RAM. With all that being said, I prefer Gentoo of course. I've been through Debian, Ubuntu, Slackware, Mandriva/Mandrake, CentOS, Fedora and openSUSE on my desktop PC. I finally settled with Gentoo; it's beats all of 'em. But it needs more attention to keep it healthy and clean. So I don't use it for the servers. More free time for me that way :P
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Saturday 27 December 2008, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > Norberto Bensa wrote: > > Why? Does Gentoo forget how to do something? Why can't you just "set and > > forget" your Gentoo boxes? > > Gentoo is difficult to install. Well, it's not really difficult - but it takes awfully longer than running a binary distro install. > Also, if it's left un-updated for > longer periods of time, it tends to break on the next update. Yep, that's the case sometimes even if you update regularly. > I guess > that's the downside of being versionless. Debian on the other hand, due > to it being versioned, doesn't have that problem. Hmm ... so then, how would you upgrade from one version of Debian to another? I tried to do something like that with Ubuntu and the darn thing never booted again! Had to wipe the drive clean and reinstall. > >> Another reason I > >> didn't put Gentoo on the server is because everyone would start spamming > >> the forums about lag when I emerge -u world while they're getting frags > >> in Counter-Strike :P > > > > set PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 in /etc/make.conf > > I'll just hay "ah, ah, ah" at that one :P OK, I'll also say that it > doesn't work. Everything lags even with 19. Is that measurable? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Norberto Bensa wrote: On Saturday December 27 2008 15:14:26 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: I run Debian on my server because it's "set and forget". With Gentoo at home, I have to take good care of it to keep it going. Why? Does Gentoo forget how to do something? Why can't you just "set and forget" your Gentoo boxes? Gentoo is difficult to install. Also, if it's left un-updated for longer periods of time, it tends to break on the next update. I guess that's the downside of being versionless. Debian on the other hand, due to it being versioned, doesn't have that problem. Another reason I didn't put Gentoo on the server is because everyone would start spamming the forums about lag when I emerge -u world while they're getting frags in Counter-Strike :P set PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 in /etc/make.conf I'll just hay "ah, ah, ah" at that one :P OK, I'll also say that it doesn't work. Everything lags even with 19.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
On Saturday December 27 2008 15:14:26 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: > I run Debian on my server because it's "set and forget". With Gentoo at > home, I have to take good care of it to keep it going. Why? Does Gentoo forget how to do something? Why can't you just "set and forget" your Gentoo boxes? > Another reason I > didn't put Gentoo on the server is because everyone would start spamming > the forums about lag when I emerge -u world while they're getting frags > in Counter-Strike :P set PORTAGE_NICENESS=19 in /etc/make.conf Best regards, Norberto
[gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
James wrote: Dale gmail.com> writes: Watch him slowly convert them over to Gentoo. o_O Then he'll be back and asking who has a server like theirs. lol Thats a FACT! Many workstation users never discover the joy of running gentoo based servers. They are really easy to maintain. If more folks ran gentoo based servers, we'd have 10x the user base, methinks One of the largest group to gentoo is formerly frustrated Debian users... He'll be back. I run Debian on my server because it's "set and forget". With Gentoo at home, I have to take good care of it to keep it going. Another reason I didn't put Gentoo on the server is because everyone would start spamming the forums about lag when I emerge -u world while they're getting frags in Counter-Strike :P
[gentoo-user] Re: Thanks and bye for now
Dale gmail.com> writes: > Watch him slowly convert them over to Gentoo. o_O Then he'll be back > and asking who has a server like theirs. lol Thats a FACT! Many workstation users never discover the joy of running gentoo based servers. They are really easy to maintain. If more folks ran gentoo based servers, we'd have 10x the user base, methinks One of the largest group to gentoo is formerly frustrated Debian users... He'll be back. James
