Re: [gentoo-user] Finer grained kde*-meta packages
On 2007-06-15, Dale wrote: Peter Ruskin wrote: With big hard discs cheap and with ADSL connection, the advantages of the meta packages are diminished. If I understand your meaning correctly, not everyone can get broadband. I'm on dial-up and it is all that is available here where I live. DSL may be here soon but not yet. How true, how true. Wonko
Re: [gentoo-user] Finer grained kde*-meta packages
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 06:08:52 -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: Well, but as kdenetwork-meta is a dependency of kde-meta, this solution means, that about 300 packages should be manually listed, just because one package is not wanted. No, because as I covered in my other reply, you can still use kdebase-meta, kdepim-meta, etc. to pull is all the packages from those parts of kde and only list individual applications from the parts you don't want everything from (in your case you should be able to use every kdefoo-meta 'cept for kdenetwork-meta). For your particular use case it's still 30 packages, not 300. It's less than that, because the KDE split ebuilds contain a number of packages that should never need to be installed directly. One already mentioned in this thread is dcoprss, which is pulled in by packages that need it. I'm not sure USE flags for the meta packages are a good idea, they could add a lot of confusion. The meta packages are supposed to install everything, if you don't want that, don't use them. -- Neil Bothwick Ultimate memory manager; Windows, it manages to use it all.. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Finer grained kde*-meta packages (was: Make portage assume, that a package is installed)
On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 05:10:00 -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: The kde-meta package is meant to replace the kde package. The is no advantage (and without a workable confcache, at least one disadvantage) to running split ebuilds. What about the need to recompile only one part of KDE when a security fix is released? If a fix is released for kppp, you only have to rebuild that (or not in the case of Alexander :) rather than the whole of kdenetwork. -- Neil Bothwick Unsupported service (adj): Broken (see Demon) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Finer grained kde*-meta packages
On Monday 18 June 2007, Neil Bothwick wrote: I'm not sure USE flags for the meta packages are a good idea, they could add a lot of confusion. The meta packages are supposed to install everything, if you don't want that, don't use them. I think what Alexander is on about is USE flags only for features that require other sub-systems outside KDE to be installed as well. Like ppp for example, or printers and scanners for another. Obviously a policy run by a human is what it will take otherwise it gets out of hand very very quickly. 'emerge *-meta' is fine if one wants everything, or 'emerge kopete kmail konqueror' if you just want a few bits like me, but there's this large no-man's land in the middle where it is just unweildy. No fault of Gentoo, it's all KDEs fault for having 300+ distinct apps/code bodies :-) alan -- Optimists say the glass is half full, Pessimists say the glass is half empty, Developers say wtf is the glass twice as big as it needs to be? Alan McKinnon alan at linuxholdings dot co dot za +27 82, double three seven, one nine three five -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Finer grained kde*-meta packages
Hello Alan McKinnon, 'emerge *-meta' is fine if one wants everything, or 'emerge kopete kmail konqueror' if you just want a few bits like me, but there's this large no-man's land in the middle where it is just unweildy. No fault of Gentoo, it's all KDEs fault for having 300+ distinct apps/code bodies :-) But you don't need all of them in world, many are only installed as dependencies of other packages. I have most of KDE installed here, yet only 67 kde-base packages in world. You could reduce that sill further by using more than the two meta packages I currently have. -- Neil Bothwick Q: Why do PCs - even modern ones - have reset buttons on the front? A: Because they come with Microsoft operating systems. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Finer grained kde*-meta packages
On Monday 18 June 2007 14:36:05 Neil Bothwick wrote: I have most of KDE installed here, yet only 67 kde-base packages in world. I run fairly light, I have about half that many: $ grep -c ^kde /var/db/pkg/world 31 I do have a number of KDE applications installed from other parts of the tree though, like kmplayer, kaffeine, ktorrent, etc. You could reduce that sill further by using more than the two meta packages I currently have. Again, since I prefer to just install the apps I want, I only pulled in 1 meta package. $ grep ^kde /var/db/pkg/world | grep -e '-meta$' kde-base/kdeartwork-meta -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.org/ \_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Finer grained kde*-meta packages
On Monday 18 June 2007 16:36:38 Peter Ruskin wrote: On Monday 18 June 2007, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: /var/db/pkg/world I think your system may need updating - the world file has lived in /var/lib/portage for some time now. Paludis prefers it @ /var/db/pkg/world. I have both on my system; one is just a symlink to the other. My system was fully updated (~amd64) around 8a this morning, right before I left for work. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.org/ \_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Finer grained kde*-meta packages
Am Freitag, 15. Juni 2007 schrieb ext Alexander Skwar: This would (obviously *g*) mean, that kde-meta cannot be installed (just as you say). This means, that a whole shit load of packages would need to be manually installed. And all that, just because you don't want one or two packages? Nah. IMO that's the wrong way around. IMO the correct way would be to enhance the kde*-meta packages so, that they support USE flags, which allow the user to select what's to be installed. I completely agree with Alexander about this. Meta (not only the kde ones) packages should definitely have USE flags. I mean, what's the advantage of the kde*-meta packages over the kde package, when the kde*-meta require just as much junk, as the kde package does? Hm, really, what's the use of the kde*-meta package anyway? Allow for selective update (kmail-3.5.6 - kmail-3.5.6-r1) instead of updating kdenetwork. Bye... Dirk -- Dirk Heinrichs | Tel: +49 (0)162 234 3408 Configuration Manager | Fax: +49 (0)211 47068 111 Capgemini Deutschland | Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wanheimerstraße 68 | Web: http://www.capgemini.com D-40468 Düsseldorf | ICQ#: 110037733 GPG Public Key C2E467BB | Keyserver: www.keyserver.net signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Finer grained kde*-meta packages (was: Make portage assume, that a package is installed)
On Friday 15 June 2007, Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about '[gentoo-user] Finer grained kde*-meta packages (was: Make portage assume, that a package is installed)': Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, I suggest that a cleaner method would be to not install kde-meta or kdenetwork-meta at all but instead just install the KDE applications that you require. Actually, I disagree. This would (obviously *g*) mean, that kde-meta cannot be installed (just as you say). Yes, because the upstream kde includes, in particular, kppp. This means, that a whole shit load of packages would need to be manually installed. And all that, just because you don't want one or two packages? Yep. You get kde-meta or individual kde packages or you get your own ebuild that depends on a number of KDE packages. The Gentoo developers do quite a bit of work just to give us kde-meta. Be glad they don't stick you with the monolithic ebuilds. Nah. IMO that's the wrong way around. IMO the correct way would be to enhance the kde*-meta packages so, that they support USE flags, which allow the user to select what's to be installed. I suppose that's a good idea in the future. Perhaps you should file an enhancement bug. That said, I would prefer kde-meta install all the packages that are part of KDE's upstream packaging by default. Eg. a ppp flag to select that ppp related stuff is to be installed. Or filesharing to disable filesharing related stuf Do you suggest a global flag? If so, what packages do you recommend this flags modify the behavior of? If not, shouldn't it have a less ambiguous name? I mean, what's the advantage of the kde*-meta packages over the kde package, when the kde*-meta require just as much junk, as the kde package does? Hm, really, what's the use of the kde*-meta package anyway? The kde-meta package is meant to replace the kde package. The is no advantage (and without a workable confcache, at least one disadvantage) to running split ebuilds. The advantage of split ebilds is that you have the choice to install only the kde applications you want, by using the individual ebaulds, without dragging in all of kde (which is what old style kde packages pulled in as a dependency.) Are the monolithic ebuilds still available? They need to be purged from the tree ASAP. - Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.org/ \_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Finer grained kde*-meta packages (was: Make portage assume, that a package is installed)
On Friday 15 June 2007, Alexander Skwar wrote: I mean, what's the advantage of the kde*-meta packages over the kde package, when the kde*-meta require just as much junk, as the kde package does? Hm, really, what's the use of the kde*-meta package anyway? The -meta packages are a good idea. With the old style kde or kdepim etc packages, you got everything whether you liked it or not. Putting a USE flag on such an ebuild to build all of kdepim except kppp would be ... tricky at best. The -meta packages split everything in kde up on an app level, but there is the disadvantage that you now have 300 ebuilds to choose from and get to list *all* the ones you want. Perhaps the best route (maybe a good feature request?) is to put USE flags in the -meta ebuilds. Then you get the full configurability of what -meta gives, plus an easy way to omit stuff without having to list 100 desired packages alan -- Optimists say the glass is half full, Pessimists say the glass is half empty, Developers say wtf is the glass twice as big as it needs to be? Alan McKinnon alan at linuxholdings dot co dot za +27 82, double three seven, one nine three five -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Finer grained kde*-meta packages
Peter Ruskin wrote: With big hard discs cheap and with ADSL connection, the advantages of the meta packages are diminished. If I understand your meaning correctly, not everyone can get broadband. I'm on dial-up and it is all that is available here where I live. DSL may be here soon but not yet. Dale :-) :-) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
