Re: [Gimp-developer] Why be cryptic? 'Xtns' should be name 'Extensions'
On Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 12:37:52AM +0100, Axel Wernicke wrote: Exactly. So, do you have some Inkscape-like GUI on your mind? well I know this is insane, but I have Mac OS X in mind, where the menu is sticked to a menubar that is always located at the top of the screen :) And even that is not very usable today. I spoke with Ellen Reitmayr about that and she told me that this methology isn't the best (Ellen - correct me if I'm wrong here) I mean... it seems to be so easy to put a fixed menubar at the top of the screen. Users can place the mouse faster to a top aligned menubar than on floating ones. But if you have a lot of windows open, it's getting worse. For example, I always trap into the problem, that the menubar of Mozilla Firefox isn't raise after the browser is started. You've to click in the main window to raise it. I think not copying from Apple nor from Photoshop will be a good start ;) Greetings, -- Roman Joost www: http://www.romanofski.de email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpUqBwKv8uW8.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Why be cryptic? 'Xtns' should be name 'Extensions'
First of all I have to tell I'm not a developer, but just I'm helping with italian translation of the program. I read all the messages that created this flame war. Through the lines I found a few good ideas that if implemented toghether should be a good compromise between Gimp and PS interface. IMHO the first one is to make the image window dockable beside the toolbar. Try to figure out the GIMP in this way you'll have the toolbar, under it the tool options window, at their right the image window and at its right the other dockable windows. In this way, with all windows docked toghether, it may look like an MDI application but it's not. In these configuration you should place in the image window (just under the menu or just above the status bar) the tabs to switch between the images that are opened. If you undock the image window, every image should have back it's own window as it is in GIMP today. Doing so every one should be able to choose to use GIMP the way they like better docked or undocked, having one big block of attached windows or tons of windows floating all around. Marco Marega -- -- ...can't buy what I want because it's free... (da Corduroy - Pearl Jam) ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] possible mail handling software to consider
On Fri, Mar 10, 2006 at 12:45:08PM -0800, Carol Spears wrote: On Fri, Mar 10, 2006 at 09:08:57PM +0100, Sven Neumann wrote: Hi, Carol Spears [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: any thoughts about using this software to help manage the berkeley gimp mail lists? We don't need any nazi software that forces people on this list to behave in certain ways. You and anyone else subscribed here is free to ignore any posts that he/she dislikes. i dunno, i was trying to start a discussion and i thought that i asked nicely. I can imagine such software being put to useful purposes. Think about it; how many lists are you on where someone eventually grows weary of a blatant top-poster and sends a flame, which goes out to everyone else and, I suppose, gives each a smug little feeling - but what a waste of time. What if the software were used to: 1. Reply to the poster with a link to a netiquette page; 2. Prepend to the post a brief note saying that the poster has been warned about the evils of top-posting; and 3. Just send the post on to the list. Hardly nazi-ish; just doing automatically what we as good netizens now do for ourselves... This is presuming that the software does fairly reliably catch top-postings. Scott Swanson ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Why be cryptic? 'Xtns' should be name 'Extensions'
On Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 02:39:04PM +0100, Marega Marco wrote: First of all I have to tell I'm not a developer, but just I'm helping with italian translation of the program. I read all the messages that created this flame war. Through the lines I found a few good ideas that if implemented toghether should be a good compromise between Gimp and PS interface. we have different definitions of flamewar i think. when i read this thread, it really seemed like a discussion to me. there is one thing that we all were in agreement on at the lgm meeting this last weekend. i would like the following to be read as a simple statement of fact and not as a means to hurt anyones feelings. the single thing we easily agreed on is that gimp doesn't really need new users or strive to be the most used software. gimp is in need of developers. not just any developers either. it is somewhat difficult to get into stride with the ones that have been working on gimp for so long. there is a desire for elegance in the code that is not understood by everyone. there were several art making applications at the meeting. everyone was surprised at how few actual developers there were making these wonderful and free applications. in this very big world now, it can be confusing (i imagine) to join us in our little part of it. gimp has never been written with the goal of huge masses of users that need to be pleased. it has been written with quality and efficiency in mind. as a long time user, i get frustrated because many of the people who want compromise from gimp developers have paid for photoshop instruction either through classes or literature. i really really found that if you learn how gimp works, you will find yourself not limited to only gimp in your newly acquired abilities. it should be like changing your diet, i think. where you discover that certain foods hurt you even when you like them. it takes a little discipline and open mindedness and you can change your diet and improve yourself. i am certain it is confusing to users of other software from other environments. gimp development has never ever been driven by the need to get and show multitudes of users. this would probably be the gnu and the gpl in the name GNU Image Manipulation Program. it is available to you and you can use it but no promises or guarentees are made about it. this seems to be more typical of GNU than of the larger group called Open [whatever]. one thing i overheard at the meeting was that the developers did not want to make gimp so that they themselves could not use it. if you do not like how gimp works, i would be more than happy to provide many other softwares that might work the way you like it to. everyone at the meeting who is involved with gimp seemed to be very proud of what they have, so any suggestions that needy users make should start from this point of view. out of the corner of my eye, i could see the other art apps wondering what made gimp and its developers so dynamic in this world. i can tell you for certain it is love and familiarity and similar vision. i don't think that any of the humans have a history of being overly popular among other humans and none of us mind that either. we did decide that if it came to a critical point, gimp would be developed only with professionals in mind. as someone who has spent many hours and even years of my life advocating gimp as a graphics teaching instrument, this is discouraging to me. but like a change in my diet, i would be willing to stop seeing gimp as an educational software and change my imaginary audience to only professionals. suggesting it work differently means that it has not actually been effective at education and perhaps i see too much potential in human beings to be able to learn. in truth, there could be only the developers using this application and it would still be developed. it is about love and not popularity. it should be interesting to review yourself as a user and how you interface with this powerful application. humans are more intelligent than computers. please help us to prove this first before you ask for compromises that you think you need. there is actual work that can and should be done. are you helping this or detracting from it? help us not to start to limit gimp to only use by professionals. to all of the new faces and old friends at the meeting, it was nice to see you again or meet you for the first time! thanks everyone :) carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Why be cryptic? 'Xtns' should be name 'Extensions'
On Wednesday 22 March 2006 16:55, Carol Spears wrote: in this very big world now, it can be confusing (i imagine) to join us in our little part of it. gimp has never been written with the goal of huge masses of users that need to be pleased. it has been written with quality and efficiency in mind. Oh god, that is lame. We want to write good, quality code, that 4 people will use. We could make a few concessions and get 4 million using it, but no, we're good with the 4 people. Please, oh Lord, someone fork Gimp. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Why be cryptic? 'Xtns' should be name 'Extensions'
On 3/23/06, Brendan wrote: Oh god, that is lame. We want to write good, quality code, that 4 people will use. We could make a few concessions and get 4 million using it, but no, we're good with the 4 people. Please, oh Lord, someone fork Gimp. I'm doing my best to understand why people say such things at all. Since operation system is something one's favourite application runs on, and Photoshop runs natively on Windows and Mac only, why don't they simply use Photoshop on Windows or Mac? Why do they bother subscribing to gimp-developer@ and ask for Photoshop-like interface? What is your reason for not buying licensed Windows and Adobe Photoshop and using it instead of struggling with lame developers and contributors? Alexandre ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
