Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] Opening Photoshop Files
At 12:41 PM 2/8/2002 +0100, Sven Neumann wrote: >Leonard Rosenthol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Will it still use FreeType for the actual rendering of the > > glyphs? And if not, then what? > >yes, it will use Freetype2 but somewhat hidden behind a Pango layer. Excellent!! >The advantage of using Pango on top of Freetype2 is that it takes care >of all the ugly details of glyph positioning and shaping. Yup, Pango is great stuff and definitely the way to go. That should make for some VERY NICE text support in future Gimps.Now you'll just have to support PSD Text Layers ;). LDR ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] Opening Photoshop Files
Hi, Dov Grobgeld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hebrew with vowel positioning has also been ported by me to ft2. > > See > http://imagic.weizmann.ac.il/~dov/Hebrew/pango-hebrew.html > http://imagic.weizmann.ac.il/~dov/freesw/paps > > for some screen shots and utilities. oh, I wasn't aware of that. Most probably I missed the hebrew-ft2 module because it is not listed in Pango's configure.in. Perhaps you could correct that. Salut, Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] Opening Photoshop Files
Hebrew with vowel positioning has also been ported by me to ft2. See http://imagic.weizmann.ac.il/~dov/Hebrew/pango-hebrew.html http://imagic.weizmann.ac.il/~dov/freesw/paps for some screen shots and utilities. Regards, Dov On Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 07:22:09PM +0100, Sven Neumann wrote: > Hi, > > Dov Grobgeld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > yes, it will use Freetype2 but somewhat hidden behind a Pango layer. > > > The advantage of using Pango on top of Freetype2 is that it takes care > > > of all the ugly details of glyph positioning and shaping. > > > > And you get all the beautiful rendering of lots of exotic scripts! > > Imagine, now you will be able to render your APL programs in Gimp > > with comments in Chinese and Runes intermixed. 8-) > > > > This is really the way to go! Keep it up. > > uhm, yes, that's the plan. The reality is however that PangoFT2 at the > moment has the basic shaper which works well for lots of scripts but > not so well for the more exotic ones. Then there's an arabic shaper > that's been added in the latest release and that's it. If we want all > the exotic scripts to render correctly, someone needs to port more > PangoXft shaper modules to PangoFT2. Fortunately the porting is pretty > straightforward. > > > Salut, Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] Opening Photoshop Files
Hi, Dov Grobgeld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > yes, it will use Freetype2 but somewhat hidden behind a Pango layer. > > The advantage of using Pango on top of Freetype2 is that it takes care > > of all the ugly details of glyph positioning and shaping. > > And you get all the beautiful rendering of lots of exotic scripts! > Imagine, now you will be able to render your APL programs in Gimp > with comments in Chinese and Runes intermixed. 8-) > > This is really the way to go! Keep it up. uhm, yes, that's the plan. The reality is however that PangoFT2 at the moment has the basic shaper which works well for lots of scripts but not so well for the more exotic ones. Then there's an arabic shaper that's been added in the latest release and that's it. If we want all the exotic scripts to render correctly, someone needs to port more PangoXft shaper modules to PangoFT2. Fortunately the porting is pretty straightforward. Salut, Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] Opening Photoshop Files
On 8 Feb 2002, at 22:02, Andrew Duhan wrote: > On Thu, 2002-02-07 at 13:37, Sven Neumann wrote: > > > Let's see what we can do about the path tool. Simon started to hack > > on this, but I have no idea how far he's come. On the other hand we > > should probably decide on the feature-set for 1.4 soon and I don't > > think we should try to add sophisticated stuff like vector layers to > > 1.4 since it would probably delay the release too much. > A few of the most useful (hopefully > non-sophisticated, 1.4-bound) changes I can see are: [...] > and optionally, > *)selection-to-path results in fewer control points As to this latter wish: there is a little advertised option in GIMP with which you can control many aspects of the selection to path conversion. Go to the Paths dialogs, and Shift-Click on the Selection to Path button. You will get a dialog with many sliders, of which I understand none. Experiment. HTH, -- branko collin [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] Opening Photoshop Files
On Thu, 2002-02-07 at 13:37, Sven Neumann wrote: > Let's see what we can do about the path tool. Simon started to hack on > this, but I have no idea how far he's come. On the other hand we > should probably decide on the feature-set for 1.4 soon and I don't > think we should try to add sophisticated stuff like vector layers to > 1.4 since it would probably delay the release too much. I usually only lurk, but I have to chime in here - I use the gimp daily in my work, as well as nightly in my play. Almost 100% of my work makes heavy use of the path tool. (gimpforce.org, user aduhan) While paths are pretty functional now, they could use a lot of work. A few of the most useful (hopefully non-sophisticated, 1.4-bound) changes I can see are: *)paths are resized with image resize *)UNDO works for paths too and optionally, *)selection-to-path results in fewer control points I just wanted the developers to know that people depend on gimp's path tool, and really appreciate its existance :) --Andrew Duhan ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] Opening Photoshop Files
Hi, "Adam D. Moss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I think it'd still be a fair comparison if you closed the > layers dialog -- an image with 1000s of layers is probably > not expected to be managable sanely with what amounts to > a list paradigm. I decided to turn off layer previews when the layer count reached 5000 and was able to go up to 1 layers with the layers-dialog temporarily being closed. Then I lost interest and stopped the experiment... Salut, Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] Opening Photoshop Files
Hi, Leonard Rosenthol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > At 8:37 PM +0100 2/7/02, Sven Neumann wrote: > >I hope do be able to complete the new text tool anytime soon and it > >is supposed to give you even better rendering than gimp-freetype > >combined with the features of GDynText. > > Will it still use FreeType for the actual rendering of the > glyphs? And if not, then what? yes, it will use Freetype2 but somewhat hidden behind a Pango layer. The advantage of using Pango on top of Freetype2 is that it takes care of all the ugly details of glyph positioning and shaping. Salut, Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] Opening Photoshop Files
Sven Neumann wrote: > Script-Fu is still adding layers while I write this and the count is > approaching 4000 layers of 16x16 pixels here. At the moment gimp uses > about 330MB of virtual memory (256MB physical RAM). The script has > (gimp-displays-flush) after (gimp-image-add-layer ...), so the layers > dialog is fighting to keep up with the amount of layers You could try duplicating an existing layer multiple times instead of creating new ones, so the copy-on-write code saves you memory. If your layer is 16x16 though, I imagine that the per-layer thumbs are taking more memory than the layer data! I think it'd still be a fair comparison if you closed the layers dialog -- an image with 1000s of layers is probably not expected to be managable sanely with what amounts to a list paradigm. -- Adam D. Moss. ,,^^[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.foxbox.org/ co:3 But not us (no never) no not us (no never) We are far too young and clever ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] Opening Photoshop Files
At 8:37 PM +0100 2/7/02, Sven Neumann wrote: >I hope do be able to complete the new text tool anytime soon and it >is supposed to give you even better rendering than gimp-freetype >combined with the features of GDynText. Will it still use FreeType for the actual rendering of the glyphs? And if not, then what? Leonard -- ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] Opening Photoshop Files
Hi, "Branko Collin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On 7 Feb 2002, at 9:29, Jon Winters wrote: > > > Went to an Adobe conference yesterday and they claim photoshop 6 has > > been tested with images up to 8000 layers. They said it can probably > > handle more but that is where they stopped testing. How many layers > > are we supporting? (heh... memory is cheap!) > > My GIMP crashed somewhere between the 300th and 400th 16x16 layer. I > could not see exactly which layer, because I kept stabbing the mouse > button quickly and after the 100th layer or so, the refresh of the > Layers dialog could not keep up with me. Script-Fu is still adding layers while I write this and the count is approaching 4000 layers of 16x16 pixels here. At the moment gimp uses about 330MB of virtual memory (256MB physical RAM). The script has (gimp-displays-flush) after (gimp-image-add-layer ...), so the layers dialog is fighting to keep up with the amount of layers and the scrollbar already shows that GTK+-1.2 has a problem with X coordinates being limited to 16bit. Let's see how far I can get, but I guess 8000 layers shouldn't be a problem with enough RAM and if you bring enough time. Salut, Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] Opening Photoshop Files
Hi, Raphael Quinet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > We need a big merge and re-write of GFig, GDynText, the FreeType > plug-in, the Path tool and the layers dialog in order to make all of > this possible. This is not a trivial task. I am not opposed to it > and I think that it would be a very good idea. Unfortunately, nothing > will happen until someone has the time (and skills) to implement these > nice features. I hope do be able to complete the new text tool anytime soon and it is supposed to give you even better rendering than gimp-freetype combined with the features of GDynText. Development on this tool has stalled a little but I'm planning to take up work on it soon. Let's see what we can do about the path tool. Simon started to hack on this, but I have no idea how far he's come. On the other hand we should probably decide on the feature-set for 1.4 soon and I don't think we should try to add sophisticated stuff like vector layers to 1.4 since it would probably delay the release too much. Salut, Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] Opening Photoshop Files
On 7 Feb 2002, at 9:29, Jon Winters wrote: > Went to an Adobe conference yesterday and they claim photoshop 6 has > been tested with images up to 8000 layers. They said it can probably > handle more but that is where they stopped testing. How many layers > are we supporting? (heh... memory is cheap!) My GIMP crashed somewhere between the 300th and 400th 16x16 layer. I could not see exactly which layer, because I kept stabbing the mouse button quickly and after the 100th layer or so, the refresh of the Layers dialog could not keep up with me. -- branko collin [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] Opening Photoshop Files
On Thu, 07 Feb 2002, Jon Winters wrote: > Went to an Adobe conference yesterday and they claim photoshop 6 has been > tested with images up to 8000 layers. They said it can probably handle > more but that is where they stopped testing. How many layers are we > supporting? (heh... memory is cheap!) Is there a limit? Does anybody have a machine with more than 4 GB of RAM to do some serious testing? ;-) > The other biggie was limited support for _vector_ > stuff. Mainly type but you are also able to import layers from > Illustrator files. It would be kinda cool to pull in gfig elements and > keep them as vector layers when the image is saved as .xcf.gz > The vector layers would be rasterized as part of export to some other > image format. [...] > I've seen requests for some of this functionality before and I've also > seen gimp developers belly ache about it. I know Gimp is a bitmap > program... I also know Photoshop _used_to_be_ a bitmap program and now > their users have some really nice tools that I would like to see in the > Gimp some day. There are several wishlist items related to the support for vectors. Start with this one: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=68915 ...and then follow the links to bug #61786, #6893 and #70499. Some time ago, I also thought that the GIMP was a bitmap program and should not mess with vectors, except for selections (paths). But now I have changed my mind. If you look at the commercial programs on the market today, most of the major paint programs have integrated more and mode vector functions: JASC's PaintShopPro, Adobe PhotoShop, the Corel suite, and probably others. We need a big merge and re-write of GFig, GDynText, the FreeType plug-in, the Path tool and the layers dialog in order to make all of this possible. This is not a trivial task. I am not opposed to it and I think that it would be a very good idea. Unfortunately, nothing will happen until someone has the time (and skills) to implement these nice features. > > Until then... Keep up the Good Work! GO WILBUR! GO WILBER! Wilber, not Wilbur! ;-) -Raphael ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: [Gimp-user] Opening Photoshop Files
Went to an Adobe conference yesterday and they claim photoshop 6 has been tested with images up to 8000 layers. They said it can probably handle more but that is where they stopped testing. How many layers are we supporting? (heh... memory is cheap!) There were also some very interesting new features in Photoshop 6 including a tool called the "extractor" that can do (good) clipping paths very very quickly. The demo was impressive but the image they started with was probably hand picked so it worked perfectly with the extractor every time. The other biggie was limited support for _vector_ stuff. Mainly type but you are also able to import layers from Illustrator files. It would be kinda cool to pull in gfig elements and keep them as vector layers when the image is saved as .xcf.gz The vector layers would be rasterized as part of export to some other image format. Another very interesting tool was the ability to export an image to SWF where each layer becomes a frame in the flash animation. The demonstration used something sorta like a gimp hose brush to spray some leaves in an "S" pattern. Then they did something to automatically break each leaf the brush sprayed into its own layer. When exported to .swf it generated the file along with a web page containing the HTML to embed the movie. When you played it the leaf moved across the movie following the S pattern. (simmilar to how we do .gif anims but this was going to .swf) I've seen requests for some of this functionality before and I've also seen gimp developers belly ache about it. I know Gimp is a bitmap program... I also know Photoshop _used_to_be_ a bitmap program and now their users have some really nice tools that I would like to see in the Gimp some day. I would code this stuff myself if I knew how... I'm learning... Some day I'll check something in. Until then... Keep up the Good Work! GO WILBUR! -- Jon Winters O 0 0 0 0 0 0 "History Will Prove us right" http://www.obscurasite.com/jon/ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
