Re: [Gimp-user] You can follow the Discourse server in Thunderbird using RSS
>
>
> Hi,
>
> you can use Discourse Gnome as a mailing list. The funny thing is, that
> using it as a mailing list, it requires to turn of the mailing list
> feature, not to enable it. Instead of enabling the mailing list feature,
> you need to choose the wanted tag, in your case it's probably "gimp".
>
> However, Discourse is not really a good mailing list, one of the
> countless reasons was mentioned by Brad Rogers: "The problem with
> discourse is when some ppl use it as a web forum and others use it as an
> ML. Especially within the same thread. It all descends into an
> unmanageable mess. :-("
>
> For example, if we format a plain text mail, the forum will reformat it
> as a HTML mail, hence a lot of probably wanted spaces get lost.
>
> Here's a nice example, I recently made for a project in German.
>
> A simple simplified analog cam and a simple simplified digital cam [1].
>
> Without a lot of spaces removed by HTML and without an appropriate mono
> space font the ASCII graphics will become nonsense.
>
> This already becomes an issue, if you indent text like commands:
>
>$ apt moo
>
> Let alone it's output.
>
> (__)
> (oo)
> /--\/
> / |||
> * /\---/\
>~~ ~~
>..."Have you mooed today?"...
>
> Regards,
> Ralf
>
> [1]
>
> ┌───┐
> └┼┬──┼┐
>Sucher ││ ││
> ┌┼┴┬─┼┘
> │ │ │
> │ │ ├┬┐
> │││ │││
> Film und Vorhang │││ │ │ Objektiv mit Blende
> │││ │││
> │ │ ├┴┘
> │ │ │
> └─┴─┘
> ┌───┐
> └┼┬─┬┤
> Sucher mit Bildschirm ││ ││
> ┌┼┴─┴┤
> │ │
> │ ├┬┐
> ││ │││
>Sensor ││ │ │ Objektiv mit Blende
> ││ │││
> │ │├┴┘
> │ ││ Speicherkarte
> └───┘
> ___
> gimp-user-list mailing list
> List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org
> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
> List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
>
What is "Ascii graphics"? Is it like emojis? 8-)
Seriously, text v HTML has been a problem since HTML email was introduced
along with top posting. Even if you tell people not to top-post, they don't
understand what that means and do it anyway. They send HTML formatted posts
to mailing lists because that's what their tools do.
BUT that is the way things are and no one is going to be able to turn back
the clock. Text only mailing lists are dead. (Not that Discord is
necessarily the right substitute for them). Sorry, but those who use
non-HTML mail and browse the Internet with Links are in a declining
minority. Let them use Gopher.
I'm not saying, don't try to do it. I'm saying that my estimate of the
possibility of success is very low.
Cliff
--
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My Facebook author page : https://www.facebook.com/cliffprattauthor
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Re: [Gimp-user] [Evolution] [evolution-users] What do I do now?
On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 22:17 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 14:50 -0500, Pat David via gimp-user-list wrote: > > Anecdata. Unless you have some good examples where this is actually > > an "unmanageable mess". > > My experiences have mostly been just fine with mixed ML/web access. > > Hi, > > how about "some good examples" of Discourse mailing list multipart > emails with intact threads and some of those Discourse mailing list > multipart emails with plain text that is unmodified and a few additional > emails with proper quoting? > > I ask for emails, not for the way it's displayed by the forum. > > TIA, > Ralf PS: Here is an email that describes the issue [1]. This are two examples of the way it's done by Discourse: References: In-Reply-To: References: What we get is a thread |--email |--email What we don't get is a complete thread tree |--email |--email [1] Forwarded Message From: Pete Biggs via GNOME Discourse Reply-To: GNOME Discourse To: ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com Subject: [Site Feedback] Email usage of discourse - threading Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 13:33:30 + PeteB Pete Biggs October 21 I (and others from Evolution mailing list) are trying to get to grips with using discourse in a mailing list type way. One thing I’ve noticed is that the threading information on the emails doesn’t seem to be working. None of the message IDs in the References: header match up with other emails from the topic. I would expect a reply to at least mention the message ID from the messages it’s replying to, but it doesn’t seem to. Things are made more complex in that I don’t seem to be notified about my own posts - so that any threads that I reply to are essentially broken. The only consistent threading reference is to the original topic - i.e. so at least the specific topic seems to stay together - but even that breaks occasionally. Does anyone seriously use Discourse exclusively by email? P. Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond. You are receiving this because you enabled mailing list mode. To unsubscribe from these emails, click here. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] [Evolution] [evolution-users] What do I do now?
>
> That's never the problem. The problem with discourse is when some ppl
> use it as a web forum and others use it as an ML. Especially within the
> same thread. It all descends into an unmanageable mess. :-(
>
Anecdata. Unless you have some good examples where this is actually an
"unmanageable mess".
My experiences have mostly been just fine with mixed ML/web access.
On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 6:32 AM Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2022 12:06:44 +0200
> Michael Schumacher via gimp-user-list wrote:
>
> Hello Michael,
>
> >Personally, I think that Discourse will be more than able to handle this
>
> That's never the problem. The problem with discourse is when some ppl
> use it as a web forum and others use it as an ML. Especially within the
> same thread. It all descends into an unmanageable mess. :-(
>
> --
> Regards _ "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
> / ) "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
> / _)rad "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
> An old custom to sell your daughter
> Hong Kong Garden - Siouxsie & The Banshees
> ___
> gimp-user-list mailing list
> List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org
> List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
> List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
>
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Re: [Gimp-user] You can follow the Discourse server in Thunderbird using RSS
On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 10:29 -0400, Kat wrote:
> I have been a gimp user for years and been on the mailing list a long time.
> I like it better then having to go to a forum and log in I can keep
> track of issues, updates and news
>
> I have also been a thunderbird user for years thank you ofnuts that I
> can do a rss feed in here
Hi,
you can use Discourse Gnome as a mailing list. The funny thing is, that
using it as a mailing list, it requires to turn of the mailing list
feature, not to enable it. Instead of enabling the mailing list feature,
you need to choose the wanted tag, in your case it's probably "gimp".
However, Discourse is not really a good mailing list, one of the
countless reasons was mentioned by Brad Rogers: "The problem with
discourse is when some ppl use it as a web forum and others use it as an
ML. Especially within the same thread. It all descends into an
unmanageable mess. :-("
For example, if we format a plain text mail, the forum will reformat it
as a HTML mail, hence a lot of probably wanted spaces get lost.
Here's a nice example, I recently made for a project in German.
A simple simplified analog cam and a simple simplified digital cam [1].
Without a lot of spaces removed by HTML and without an appropriate mono
space font the ASCII graphics will become nonsense.
This already becomes an issue, if you indent text like commands:
$ apt moo
Let alone it's output.
(__)
(oo)
/--\/
/ |||
* /\---/\
~~ ~~
..."Have you mooed today?"...
Regards,
Ralf
[1]
┌───┐
└┼┬──┼┐
Sucher ││ ││
┌┼┴┬─┼┘
│ │ │
│ │ ├┬┐
│││ │││
Film und Vorhang │││ │ │ Objektiv mit Blende
│││ │││
│ │ ├┴┘
│ │ │
└─┴─┘
┌───┐
└┼┬─┬┤
Sucher mit Bildschirm ││ ││
┌┼┴─┴┤
│ │
│ ├┬┐
││ │││
Sensor ││ │ │ Objektiv mit Blende
││ │││
│ │├┴┘
│ ││ Speicherkarte
└───┘
___
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List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] You can follow the Discourse server in Thunderbird using RSS
sorry replied with wrong email address I have been a gimp user for years and been on the mailing list a long time. I like it better then having to go to a forum and log in I can keep track of issues, updates and news I have also been a thunderbird user for years thank you ofnuts that I can do a rss feed in here I joined Bretts new list also ... Yes I dislike the credit score (censorship) discourse user I would not willingly sign up sincerely Kat ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] [Evolution] [evolution-users] What do I do now?
On Tue, 25 Oct 2022 12:06:44 +0200
Michael Schumacher via gimp-user-list wrote:
Hello Michael,
>Personally, I think that Discourse will be more than able to handle this
That's never the problem. The problem with discourse is when some ppl
use it as a web forum and others use it as an ML. Especially within the
same thread. It all descends into an unmanageable mess. :-(
--
Regards _ "Valid sig separator is {dash}{dash}{space}"
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is never immediately apparent"
/ _)rad "Is it only me that has a working delete key?"
An old custom to sell your daughter
Hong Kong Garden - Siouxsie & The Banshees
pgprL20wEzkBb.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [Gimp-user] [Evolution] [evolution-users] What do I do now?
Am 25.10.22 um 11:13 schrieb Ralf Mardorf via gimp-user-list: an important part of the app communities are the app developers, the admins and moderators of the current lists at gnome.org, hence a first step to get closer to a solution are statements from those people. For the gimp-user list, the number of messages created in the "list discontinuation" threads (roughly 100 by now) is fast approaching the number of messages this list has had in total before that for the whole year (about 110). Personally, I think that Discourse will be more than able to handle this amount of messaging, will likely even lead to an increase in volume, and be able to reach more people in general. -- Regards, Michael ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] [Evolution] [evolution-users] What do I do now?
On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 16:02 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: > losses will occur. > > Some of the people on some of the gnome lists, are being quite vocal > about all kinds of possibilities, but, seem to be doing nothing about > any of the possibilities. Hi, an important part of the app communities are the app developers, the admins and moderators of the current lists at gnome.org, hence a first step to get closer to a solution are statements from those people. We all or at least most of us were surprised and disorganized, the next step is to become more organised. Regards, Ralf ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] [evolution-users] [Evolution] What do I do now?
On 25/10/22 15:42, Ralf via groups.io wrote: On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 14:43 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: On 25/10/22 10:18, Ralf via groups.io wrote: Temporarily we can continue to think about how to proceed at https://groups.io/g/evolution-users https://groups.io/g/gimp-users Just to clarify - when I set up the replacement lists at groups.io (and, I have set up another one, for a different gnome product), I did not set them up to be as temporary facilities. The lists were set up to replace the applicable gnome.org mailing lists that are being shut down. Hi, thank you again for your efforts. The Evolution mailing list at Gnome has around 850 subscribers, hence groups.io can't be a non-transient solution for this list. I think that we should wait and see what happens. So far, the membership numbers for the gimp and evolution users mailing lists that I set up at groups.io, are 14 and 28, respectively. When a mailing list is shut down, some go one way, and, others choose to go other ways. When the about 57,000 rootsweb,com mailing lists were shut down by ancestry.com, after taking over rootsweb.com, many of the list administrators created replacement lists at groups.io . In the migration, some people went to the replacement groups.io lists that were set up to replace the rootsweb,com mailing lists, some went to google groups, some went other ways, and, others just gave up. Whilst some lists had hundreds of members at rootsweb.com, the replacements lists at groups.io, for some of those lists, ended up having less than a hundred subscribers. Some lists at rootsweb.com, were merged into consolidated lists at groups.io, so that, for example, one list at groups.io, that now has slightly less than 100 subscribers, was a merge of three or four lists, that had about 300-400 subscribers. In any migration, whether it be mailing list subscribers, or wildebeest or kudzu or bison, losses will occur. Some of the people on some of the gnome lists, are being quite vocal about all kinds of possibilities, but, seem to be doing nothing about any of the possibilities. With the current membership numbers of the lists that I set up at groups.io, to replace the lists hosted at gnome.org, I expect that the number of subscribers on each, will not approach 100, as I believe that many people are simply giving up. But, I will wait and see what happens. .. Bret Busby Armadale West Australia (UTC+0800) .. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] [evolution-users] [Evolution] What do I do now?
On 25/10/22 10:18, Ralf via groups.io wrote: On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 08:31 +0800, Luigi via evolution-list wrote: Since we only have a few days left may I suggest the group focus on putting forwards what options we have and those actually doing the work can decide the best choice and we go for it (even if its not perfect). Hi, Savannah was also mentioned by the MC mailing list (IIRC not for the mailing list, but for tickets). https://savannah.gnu.org/maintenance/WhyChooseSavannah/ On the Gimp mailing list there was a pointer to https://www.tuxfamily.org/en/about . It would be nice if former gnome.org mailing lists migrate to the same new location. Temporarily we can continue to think about how to proceed at https://groups.io/g/evolution-users https://groups.io/g/gimp-users IMO Savanna is a quite good idea, but FWIW Midnight Commander, Gimp, Gedit and Evolution have got BSD ports, too. Regards, Ralf Just to clarify - when I set up the replacement lists at groups.io (and, I have set up another one, for a different gnome product), I did not set them up to be as temporary facilities. The lists were set up to replace the applicable gnome.org mailing lists that are being shut down. Of course, as I said in the messages announcing these lists, that I posted to the gnome.org mailing lists, it is up to you, to choose what you do. So, if you choose to leave the lists that I have set up to replace the gnome.org mailing lists that are being shut down, that is your choice. The lists that I have set up to replace the gnome.org mailing lists that are being shut down, are, and will be, available, if you choose to use them for seeking support for, and otherwise (appropriately) discussing the applicable software packages to which the lists relate. So, I did not set up these lists at groups.io, with the intent of them having an expiry date. They are there, for use for the purpose for which they were set up, as defined in the list description of each list that I set up. .. Bret Busby Armadale West Australia (UTC+0800) .. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] [evolution-users] [Evolution] What do I do now?
On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 14:43 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: > On 25/10/22 10:18, Ralf via groups.io wrote: > > Temporarily we can continue to think about how to proceed at > > > > https://groups.io/g/evolution-users > > https://groups.io/g/gimp-users > > > > Just to clarify - when I set up the replacement lists at groups.io (and, > I have set up another one, for a different gnome product), I did not set > them up to be as temporary facilities. > > The lists were set up to replace the applicable gnome.org mailing lists > that are being shut down. Hi, thank you again for your efforts. The Evolution mailing list at Gnome has around 850 subscribers, hence groups.io can't be a non-transient solution for this list. While I'm not against donations, I consider donations as a last resort, that should be avoided. The day we spend more money for donations, to keep FLOSS alive, than we spend for one time purchases to get proprietary software and free as in beer lifetime support, FLOSS is dead anyway. Somebody mentioned a proprietary replacement for Gimp, while I mentioned another FLOSS project for Gimp. I can't speak for this other person, but only for myself. It was not meant as trolling. Actually I'm using both, the proprietary software mentioned by this other person and the FLOSS software mentioned by me. I migrated a long time ago from Gimp to those other solutions and a few more for other reasons and I never bothered anybody by recommending to do the same. Mentioning an alternative was done due to the step made by the GNOME foundation, to drop the mailing lists without providing a reasonable replacement. I'm not completely pissed off by a forum, I'm completely pissed of by a forum with gamification. The other FLOSS software I mentioned (Krita) provides a mailing list. Btw. for those who are not only in pixel graphic, for photography there are anyway IMO way better solutions available, FLOSS as well as proprietary, to see just a few, take a look at https://lensfun.github.io/usage/ . IMO a plugin for Gimp still doesn't make it a good app for photography. YMMV! I'm not aware of software to my taste, that can replace Evolution for me and I used almost all known MUA software. While I'm not a MC user, for this purpose I'm in favour of command line with bashisms, I doubt that there's a replacement available for MC. As GUI editor I replaced Gedit for other reasons a long time ago by Pluma and Pluma by Xed and I even used Kate and similar. However, I never joined a mailing list for any of these editors. In a nutshell: IMO a free as in beer mailing list is useful for some apps and I expect it should be able to hold way more than 100 subscribers and not be limited to 1 GiB. Apart from replacing a dropped mailing list by a new mailing list another workaround/solution could be replacing an app by another app. For me and for some other users replacing a mailing list by Discourse is no option. Regards, Ralf ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
