Re: OpenCV any Users on List?
On 05/24/2010 05:26 PM, bruce.lab...@autoliv.com wrote: Well, more than once you've made critical remarks regarding your own skills in C++. Since you seem to be in a position where you're being asked to work with C++, I figured it warranted pointing out that the most useful tool we have is inside our skulls. Too often we look to products and parts to solve problems, when what we really need is training and workforce improvement. -- Ben Fair enough. I can do better. I shall endeavor to do better... O... Time to crack the books open... Hmm, which one of the three I just got within the last two weeks As I mentioned, the Deitel book is very good, but it can be intimidating. Has a lot of very good examples, and you can even build an elevator in your house. Many of the smaller books are nice, and give you insights on style, but from my standpoint, the easiest way to learn a computer language is by coding. Whenever I am not 100% sure how something actually works, I try to code it. One of my favorites is Wirth's balanced binary tree example in Pascal that I have recoded in C, C++, and Java. -- Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenCV any Users on List?
Jerry said As I mentioned, the Deitel book is very good, but it can be intimidating. Has a lot of very good examples, and you can even build an elevator in your house. Many of the smaller books are nice, and give you insights on style, but from my standpoint, the easiest way to learn a computer language is by coding. Whenever I am not 100% sure how something actually works, I try to code it. One of my favorites is Wirth's balanced binary tree example in Pascal that I have recoded in C, C++, and Java. Right now I have Prata's C++ Primer Plus. Seems to start out easy. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenCV any Users on List?
On 05/25/2010 08:24 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote: Jerry said As I mentioned, the Deitel book is very good, but it can be intimidating. Has a lot of very good examples, and you can even build an elevator in your house. Many of the smaller books are nice, and give you insights on style, but from my standpoint, the easiest way to learn a computer language is by coding. Whenever I am not 100% sure how something actually works, I try to code it. One of my favorites is Wirth's balanced binary tree example in Pascal that I have recoded in C, C++, and Java. Right now I have Prata's C++ Primer Plus. Seems to start out easy. It's a good start. -- Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenCV any Users on List?
On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Bruce Labitt bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net wrote: OpenCV appears to require a good C++ background, which I don't have now. ... Any advice? Tell your employer you need some C++ training in order to do your job effectively. It isn't like I can do NO C++ ... Well, more than once you've made critical remarks regarding your own skills in C++. Since you seem to be in a position where you're being asked to work with C++, I figured it warranted pointing out that the most useful tool we have is inside our skulls. Too often we look to products and parts to solve problems, when what we really need is training and workforce improvement. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenCV any Users on List?
On 05/21/2010 08:22 PM, Bruce Labitt wrote: However, I don't think in C++. I had the same problem when approaching Java for the first time. Bruce Eckel's book Thinking in Java was a godsend for me, and it's fabulously written (for the audience defined as me anyway). He's also written a Thinking in C++ book which I haven't read, but would certainly buy without thinking twice if I needed to learn C++ (I had to do that in the first four weeks of CS5 in College, when gcc support was terrible...). -Bill -- Bill McGonigle, Owner BFC Computing, LLC http://bfccomputing.com/ Telephone: +1.603.448.4440 Email, IM, VOIP: b...@bfccomputing.com VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf Social networks: bill_mcgonigle/bill.mcgonigle ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenCV any Users on List?
gnhlug-discuss-boun...@mail.gnhlug.org wrote on 05/24/2010 02:26:43 PM: On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Bruce Labitt bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net wrote: OpenCV appears to require a good C++ background, which I don't have now. ... Any advice? Tell your employer you need some C++ training in order to do your job effectively. It isn't like I can do NO C++ ... Well, more than once you've made critical remarks regarding your own skills in C++. Since you seem to be in a position where you're being asked to work with C++, I figured it warranted pointing out that the most useful tool we have is inside our skulls. Too often we look to products and parts to solve problems, when what we really need is training and workforce improvement. -- Ben Fair enough. I can do better. I shall endeavor to do better... O... Time to crack the books open... Hmm, which one of the three I just got within the last two weeks -Bruce ** Neither the footer nor anything else in this E-mail is intended to or constitutes an brelectronic signature and/or legally binding agreement in the absence of an brexpress statement or Autoliv policy and/or procedure to the contrary.brThis E-mail and any attachments hereto are Autoliv property and may contain legally brprivileged, confidential and/or proprietary information.brThe recipient of this E-mail is prohibited from distributing, copying, forwarding or in any way brdisseminating any material contained within this E-mail without prior written brpermission from the author. If you receive this E-mail in error, please brimmediately notify the author and delete this E-mail. Autoliv disclaims all brresponsibility and liability for the consequences of any person who fails to brabide by the terms herein. br ** ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenCV any Users on List?
On 05/21/2010 06:51 PM, Benjamin Scott wrote: On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Bruce Labitt bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net wrote: OpenCV appears to require a good C++ background, which I don't have now. ... Any advice? Tell your employer you need some C++ training in order to do your job effectively. Or if you're afraid they'll terminate you and hire someone else, seek learning on your own time and dime. I taught C++ at Northeastern and have been employed as a C++ software engineer for quite a while. One of the books that I recommend is the C++ How to Program series by Deitel. Harvey Deitel was supposed to be my OS professor when I was working for my MCS degree at BU, but he went to BC. His books are, IMHO, very complete, and while the one that I used at NEU is aging, I still use it for reference. Another book that I liked was the C++ Primer by Lippman and Lajoie, but I don't think it has been updated recently. The issue with C++ (and other OO languages) is that it is important that you think in OO. Template classes in C++ are very powerful as is polymorphism. The product I work with is over a million lines of C++, and it uses polymorphism very heavily, and it is a true C++ system in contrast to some other systems I have worked with that were C compiled with C++ and a few classes mixed in. -- Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenCV any Users on List?
Jerry Feldman wrote: snip I taught C++ at Northeastern and have been employed as a C++ software engineer for quite a while. One of the books that I recommend is the C++ How to Program series by Deitel. Harvey Deitel was supposed to be my OS professor when I was working for my MCS degree at BU, but he went to BC. His books are, IMHO, very complete, and while the one that I used at NEU is aging, I still use it for reference. Another book that I liked was the C++ Primer by Lippman and Lajoie, but I don't think it has been updated recently. The issue with C++ (and other OO languages) is that it is important that you think in OO. Template classes in C++ are very powerful as is polymorphism. The product I work with is over a million lines of C++, and it uses polymorphism very heavily, and it is a true C++ system in contrast to some other systems I have worked with that were C compiled with C++ and a few classes mixed in. Thanks for the book recommendations. /ramble on Yes, thinking in OO is key. Mercifully, this list didn't have to listen to my struggles with OOP with python. (Poor PySIG folks did though...) I think I have *some* concept of it now. Actually, I wrote my client server FFT app in python using OOP. I then translated the python server to a C++ server. The issue with C++, as I see it, is that one has to deal not only with the OOP part which is not easy, but the C/C++ syntax. Compared to python, for instance, C syntax is pretty ugly. Learning OOP in python first and applying it to C++ worked for me. Originally, when I looked at C++ BP (before python) I was overwhelmed at the 'density' of the language and wondered if I *ever* would be able to learn it. Now that I have some concept of OOP it does not seem as daunting. The original reason I was groaning about C++ was that there is a minimum proficiency required to be productive. That required proficiency, from my perspective, appears to be significantly higher for C++ than say for C, or python. For better or worse, the required expertise is higher. I can't be expert at everything, although I'd like to be. I'm not trying to validate an algorithm - I've already simulated everything in python/numpy to my satisfaction. I *just* need to port this algorithm to an embedded platform. It appears that many embedded platforms (at my price point) don't have sophisticated mathematical libraries readily available. So as you can see, I've been trying to learn other libraries so I can use them as the building blocks to implement my algorithm. Hopefully OpenCV will work. Hmm, just found the OpenCV Yahoo Groups. As of OpenCV 2.0 they now use LAPACK! (My level of trust of OpenCV went up.) Jeesh, I must not have built LAPACK right... /ramble off Looks like more C++ in my future... ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenCV any Users on List?
Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org writes: The issue with C++ (and other OO languages) is that it is important that you think in OO. Stroustrup and Stepanov both disagree with this, .cf.: http://www2.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#Object-Oriented-language http://www.stlport.org/resources/StepanovUSA.html http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/drdobbs-interview.html However, I'd agree that one had better be able to deal with the OO stuff if one expects to be able to handle anyone else's C++ code-- mainly because the misconception is so widespread. -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenCV any Users on List?
On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Bruce Labitt bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net wrote: OpenCV appears to require a good C++ background, which I don't have now. ... Any advice? Tell your employer you need some C++ training in order to do your job effectively. Or if you're afraid they'll terminate you and hire someone else, seek learning on your own time and dime. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenCV any Users on List?
bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net wrote: OpenCV appears to require a good C++ background, which I don't have now. ... Any advice? Tell your employer you need some C++ training in order to do your job effectively. Or if you're afraid they'll terminate you and hire someone else, seek learning on your own time and dime. Let me stress that the only familiarity I have with OpenCV is what I gained just now when I spent approx three minutes glancing at this: http://www.cs.iit.edu/~agam/cs512/lect-notes/opencv-intro/index.html ...but based on that exhaustive analysis and on your postings on this channel I'd have to say that you should charge boldly forward because OpenCV does not seem like a very challenging or esoteric example of C++. It looks to me like the hardest part of OpenCV would be the matrix math concepts (independent of programming language) and if you're comfortable with that then OpenCV would mostly feel like plain old C to you. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenCV any Users on List?
Benjamin Scott wrote: On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Bruce Labitt bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net wrote: OpenCV appears to require a good C++ background, which I don't have now. ... Any advice? Tell your employer you need some C++ training in order to do your job effectively. Or if you're afraid they'll terminate you and hire someone else, seek learning on your own time and dime. -- Ben It isn't like I can do NO C++, I did write an FFT server running on a QS22 with OpenMP (multi-core threads) FFTW and communicated via sockets. I wrote that in C++ creating a sockets/com class, and a command processor/sequencer, class, etc. However, I don't think in C++. Training wouldn't hurt! (I don't know where the time would come from, but it seems everyone has that problem.) Oh, and a lot of practice. I don't know about you, but the only way things actually get into my cortex matter, is practice, practice, practice, in that order. As for hiring someone else, I've begged my management to get me some help here. Surprising to some, I actually know a few things :) However, being a hotshot C++ programmer is not one of those things yet. I'm working on it, groaning a lot though Sorry to subject you to it... Umm, so, do you know anything about OpenCV? Good? Bad? Easy to use? Stinks for insert x ? -Bruce ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: OpenCV any Users on List?
Michael ODonnell wrote: bruce.lab...@myfairpoint.net wrote: OpenCV appears to require a good C++ background, which I don't have now. ... Any advice? Tell your employer you need some C++ training in order to do your job effectively. Or if you're afraid they'll terminate you and hire someone else, seek learning on your own time and dime. Let me stress that the only familiarity I have with OpenCV is what I gained just now when I spent approx three minutes glancing at this: http://www.cs.iit.edu/~agam/cs512/lect-notes/opencv-intro/index.html ...but based on that exhaustive analysis and on your postings on this channel I'd have to say that you should charge boldly forward because OpenCV does not seem like a very challenging or esoteric example of C++. It looks to me like the hardest part of OpenCV would be the matrix math concepts (independent of programming language) and if you're comfortable with that then OpenCV would mostly feel like plain old C to you. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ Yes, that is the extent of my analysis to date also :) Same website. I'd like to know the under pinnings of the OpenCV matrix math routines. I strongly suspect it is just ATLAS/BLAS and LAPACK, the same blasted packages that I have not been able to figure out on my own! It irritates the heck out of me!!! Especially when others have apparently figured it out. The matrix math is not hard for me now (you should have asked me 2 months ago, I hadn't looked at that stuff in over 20, umm, no, 30 years!). It appears that OpenCV could work. But, it looked like CLAPACK was the answer to my dreams too. I'm wary of undertaking the OpenCV learning curve, and finding a dead end. (But if one does the same thing one always does, then nothing will change...) So I guess I'm off on another adventure. I'm so close to getting this stuff off the ground, I can almost taste it. I can only hope the taste of 'victory' will be sweet enough to erase the memory of the stench of the trenches. -Bruce ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
