Re: [Goanet] HINDUISATION of USA - UK - CANADA - EUROPE - AUSTRALIA - NEWZEALAND.
What is the purpose of this propaganda piece? Does he want to propagate his own brand of religion, denigrate India, malign Hindus and Catholics who are not like him, stereotype and ridicule people from different Indian states? What? Why does he deny the fact that India is a secular country? Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 6/19/10, J F D wrote: > > The HINDUS settled in USA – UK – > CANADA – EUROPE - AUSTRALIA - NEWZEALAND > are doing a lot for the HINDU CAUSE including contributing > money to build > GRAND MARBLE TEMPLES IN WESTERN COUNTRIES, funding RIGHT > WING HINDU > Organizations in India, taking up the cause of > Indias/Hindus with the > western governments and western news media, funding Hindu > charitable > institutions in India and various other activities for the > PROGRESS OF > HINDUS AND HINDUISM not just in India but around the WORLD. > There are many > INDIAN CATHOLICS who have settled in western countries but > they have gone > there merely to improve their standard of living. As for > the white color > WESTERN CATHOLICS they are least bothered about > Catholicism. There are only > a few Catholics with limited resources who are sacrificing > time and effort > for the CATHOLIC CAUSE. > > > RAJASTHANIS > One Rajasthani is a cattle-seller. > Two Rajasthanis is a mason. > Three Rajasthanis is a puppet show. > Four Rajasthanis is a folk dance-drama. > >
Re: [Goanet] Chauvinism V/s Patriotism - Adv. Radharao Gracias - Herald - June 25, 2010 - Comments
I am always amazed why people counter hyperbolic nonsense on one fringe with something even worse from the opposite fringe. In this ridiculous article it looks like chauvinism is countered by self-loathing, using a rather constricted definition of greatness and progress. If, as the silly line of argument in this article suggests, the principal measure of contribution to society is to join the army, then India has done quite well. It has arguably the third largest army in the world, after China and Russia. But I am sure most readers of the article have more sense than to believe any aspect of the cartoonish picture sketched by it. Contributions to human civilization involve much more than military prowess and scoring goals - indeed, much more than even technological advancement. There is language, art, music, dance, literature, sculpture, architecture, cuisine, philosophy and numerous other areas of human endeavor that characterize any culture and society. I would like to know whether the author of the said article has thought about them at all. His article certainly does not indicate he has. But if he has or if he does so now, I would also like to know what kind of objective method he would use to place India at the bottom of the pack in these areas as well. BTW, the literal contribution of zero by an Indian to mathematics was one of the most significant inventions of humankind. It was as transformative as the` invention of calculus. Cheers, Santosh P.S. Also, encouraging or shaming the RSS and other Hindu extremists into joining the military would be the worst calamity anybody could wish upon India. --- On Fri, 6/25/10, floriano wrote: > > Chauvinisam V/s Patriotism - By Adv. Radharao F. > Gracias > > Our self-belief in our greatness is unfounded, and is the > cause of India's downfall, says Adv. Radharao F. Gracias. > > It was sometime at the beginning of the 19th century > that a soldier in the French Emperor Napoleon's army, when > asked to justify the incessant wars that France launched > against its neighbours, gave the classic reply: "My > Country, therefore right" (later modified as: "My country, > right or wrong"). The soldier's name was Eduardo Chauvin > (not Faleiro). He gave the world and entirely new concept: > 'chauvinism' >
Re: [Goanet] India, the hype and the reality... (Radharao Gracias)
I am always amazed why people counter hyperbolic nonsense on one fringe with something even worse from the opposite fringe. In this article it looks like chauvinism is countered by self-loathing, using a rather constricted definition of greatness and progress. If, as the silly line of argument in this article suggests, the principal measure of contribution to society is to join the army, then India has done quite well. It has arguably the third largest army in the world, after China and Russia. But I am sure most readers of the article have more sense than to believe any aspect of the cartoonish picture sketched by it. Contributions to human civilization involve much more than military prowess and scoring goals - indeed, much more than even technological advancement. There is language, art, music, dance, literature, sculpture, architecture, cuisine, philosophy and numerous other areas of human endeavor that characterize any culture and society. I would like to know whether the author of the said article has thought about them at all. His article certainly does not indicate he has. But if he has or if he does so now, I would also like to know what kind of objective method he would use to place India at the bottom of the pack in these areas as well. BTW, the literal contribution of zero by an Indian to mathematics was one of the most significant inventions of humankind. It was as transformative as the` invention of calculus. Cheers, Santosh P.S. Also, encouraging or shaming the RSS and other Hindu extremists into joining the military would be the worst calamity anybody could wish upon India. --- On Tue, 6/29/10, Goanet Reader wrote: > > We are not great, we have to strive > to become great > By Adv.Radharao F.Gracias > > It was sometime at the beginning of the nineteenth century > that a soldier in Napoleon's army when asked to justify > the > incessant wars that France launched against its neighbours > gave the classic reply which immortalized him. The reply: > "My > country, therefore right". The soldier: Nicholas Chauvin. > He > gave us an entire new concept: Chauvinism. >
Re: [Goanet] India, the hype and the reality... (Radharao Gracias)
Thoughtful valid self-criticism is always welcome. Indeed it is essential for any kind of progress to occur. It is a hallmark of rational thought and scientific inquiry. But the article in question has very little to offer in this vein. On the contrary, as Amita Kanekar so nicely pointed out, it consists almost entirely of sweeping generalizations and inaccurate exaggerations, whose main purpose is polemical, to counter the jingoism on the opposite political fringe, namely that of RSS and other Hindu nationalists. It is the tired old self-loathing of the left against the nauseating chauvinism of the right. Smearing is something else, which fortunately this article does not do. Smearing involves the making of baseless slanderous accusations against individuals or communities in public forums. Good examples of smearing can be found in an article entitled "Skin-deep Secularism" written by Admin Noronha in Herald last year. Cheers, Santosh --- On Wed, 6/30/10, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > Easy to dismiss any criticism as > "self-loathing", "smearing" etc. That > way, almost anything could be dismissively cast aside > and written > away! Where's the space then for critical thought and > questioning > then? > > As far as Radha's point on the RSS goes, I saw it > differently. He was > merely pointing out to their hypocrisy -- talk about > "patriotism" but > not do something like join the army and risk getting > killed > themselves. In other words, ahem, something like skin-deep > patriotism! > > While I don't agree entirely with Gracias, and believe some > of the > comparisons (with Japan, Turkey) might not be apt, because > our history > has been so different, he does through up an interesting > challenge to > think about. > > FN >
Re: [Goanet] India, the hype and the reality... (Radharao Gracias)
One of the misfortunes of India is Indians like Nascy who have never had any attachment to their motherland or their fellow countrymen, let alone any sense of pride, responsibility or duty towards them. In my opinion, along with corruption and other ills, the disgraceful attitude displayed, time and again, by these ungrateful folk is another major impediment to India's progress. What is worse is that they have cultivated this disposition, not out of any real knowledge or insight, but out of pure ignorance about India's history and its contribution to world culture, art, sculpture, music, philosophy, etc, as is clear from Nascy's boorish post appended below. The post below and the earlier one by Jim makes it clear that their Indian authors have never heard of 20th century stalwarts such as Srinivasa Ramanujan, Chandrasekhar Venkat Raman, Satyendra Nath Bose or Prasanta Chandra Mahalanobis. They have absolutely no idea what kinds of contributions are being made as we speak by institutions like the Indian Statistical Institute in Kolkata or the numerous outfits in India's own silicon valley. Cheers, Santosh --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Nascy Caldeira wrote: > > Jim, > U have correctly stated what I wanted to say, in response > to what great? Santosh had to say on this. > I would like to add: The zero may have been invented in > India; but this is disputed. The Sumerians the civilisation > between the two great rivers in what is now Iraq, are > claiming the xero concept is theirs; and that they also used > it to invent the decimal system. Indian Harrapa civilisation > may have followed uo on that! >
Re: [Goanet] India, the hype and the reality... (Radharao Gracias)
Nascy, Here is why it is you, in addition to the corrupt politicians and some irresponsible Indians, who bring shame to India. 1. You are completely clueless about the great stalwarts of 20th century India, who were mathematical and scientific geniuses, and whose work contributed to the technological advances of today. You call them philosphers. How shameful! 2. You do not know what being civilized is, and how well regarded Indian civilization is among scholars and educated people of the rest of the world. 3. One example of how uncivilized your behavior is, is the fact that you tar all Indians with the same broad brush because of the beliefs and activities of some that you dislike. 4. You are unable to recognize what is good, bad and inconsequential about culture in general. You have never been able to point out a single good thing about India and Indians, despite having been asked to do so, repeatedly. You claim about love for India rings hollow. Shame on you! Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Nascy Caldeira wrote: > > Santosh, > U mention great stalwarts, but U do not say what if > anything 'original' they discovered or invented. > Philosophers are found in thousands all over the world, and > they are unproductive. > > Secondly U say that me and Jim type are divorced from > Indian reality, India and ungrateful; for what? the shen and > cow's urine? > That is how India brings shame to all Indians in India and > abroad. > > I am enlightened compared to the majority of Indians. That > is the reason I may be able to see more clearly the total > picture from above (culturally above). I can therefor > analyse the status in India better than those who appreciate > their own shit in conservative blindness! > > Open your eyes and LOOK rather than just SEE; and U will > realise how unproductive and uncouth the India I love and > that I am born in, is. > U do agree that it is foreigners, the world at large that > must appreciate India not the saffron and non saffron type > of ignorant Indians who are looking at their own tail; they > are not looking beyond. How sad? > > I hope all Indians grow up to take a good look at > themselves compared to the world outside and not within > only. Good and or Bad has meaning only when compared; else > everything is either good or bad, on individual perception. > This is exactly your mistake, Santosh > > Nascy Caldeira > >
Re: [Goanet] Who dunnit? A Eureka moment.
The purpose and meaning of the following post are a mystery. Even after reading it twice, I do not have answers to following questions: 1. What is the eureka moment? 2. Where was the temple? 3. What structure stands in its place now? 4. What are the names of the respected Goanetters mentioned in the post? I hope I get answers to these questions in "My Eureka moment (Part 2)" Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > Hindu Temple of the Mount on the Isle > of Goa - Tiswadi. > > Above was a thread on Goanet few months ago in which > I participated. One issue > on the topic left me pondering - the destruction > of a mountain-top Hindu temple > in Tiswadi, whose existence was well documented. > > One respected goanetter was of the opinion that > Albuquerque being friendly to > Hindus would not have destroyed this prominent Hindu > temple on the mountain > top. The author attributed / suggested the likely > destruction of the temple to > the prior owners of the island - the Muslim Sultan of > Bijapur. > > Another respected goanetter had > previously attributed destruction of Hindu > temples to Portuguese and Christian missionaries; as an > anti-Hindu campaign to > force conversions. These views proceeded to claim the > goal > of temple-destruction was "to build a church on top of the > temple". > This writer, on goanet, claimed this practice of > Christians targeting temples > and using their building materials to build their own place > of worship as > occurring prior to 1540 - i.e. prior to Portuguese > acquiring any territory > beyond Tiswadi. > > > So the views of these Goan writers contradict each > other. And if Goans are > confused, the "bhaile" / foreign writers are left to form > their own theories; > which may be recycled by native journalists. > > Some may be keen to know who these and other writers > were. The more important > issue is the contents of the post than its author. Yet > if any one should insist > on getting the name of the writer(s), they are welcomed to > do their own research > of the goanet archives. > > Seeking the quest for the right facts 500 years ago is > always difficult. From a > scientific investigation perspective, the best > sources would be an eye-witness > account of a unbiased observer, who documented these facts > in real time. > Preferably one would seek corroborative real-time > accounts from MULTIPLE > independent sources based on INDEPENDENT data of cause and > effect. This is as > opposed to conclusions based on one person's opinion, which > may be biased or > poorly informed; which is then referenced and quoted by > other authors. > > Unfortunately 500-year old facts on Goa do not meet the > above stringent > criteria. Recently shown on Goanet, many "statement of > facts" on closer > scrutiny are based on the individual's "speculation" and > "intuition". One > writer was honest to admit to a lack of facts to > support his "speculation" > > In the absence of hard data from 500 years ago, we are left > with piecing > together clues for a reasoned-unbiased reader to draw their > own conclusions. > > My Eureka moment (Part 2) > > Regards, GL
Re: [Goanet] India, the hype and the reality... (Radharao Gracias)
As I have said before, criticism has to be legitimate and substantive. It has to result from a genuine appraisal of facts. Criticism borne out of ignorance, prejudice or political bias is worthless. It misdirects our efforts at finding remedies, and contributes to the perpetuation of ignorance and alienation. For example, contrary to what it is stated below, and in the past, frequently by Admin Noronha and others, there is no such thing as Indian science or an Eastern science and a western science. Science is universal. Modern and ancient Indians working in India have contributed to it. Nobody can deny this fact. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > The contribution of traditional societies to "modern" > knowledge > remains understudied and not adequately acknowledged. > Just came > across a journal which proposes to do this, Vigyan Bharati > Pradeepika > "dedicated to identify and rediscover the original Indian > science and > technology in a modern context". (rof Sureshwar Sharma, > Udayachal, > 1881, Gupteshwar, Jabalpur 482001 MP). > > Quite some time ago, I attended (as a correspondent) a > couple of > "traditional science congresses". These were held at the > IIT-Bombay > and, if I recall right, the Anna University in Chennai. > While there > was an element of mumbo-jumbo and unsubstantiated claims > being made, > there were many amazing facts coming to light there too. > > Nonetheless, whatever the achievements of the remote and > recent past, > I feel we should always retain a critical element, and be > willing to > accept criticism or counterviews. If it's true, then we > need to face > up to it; if not, we can ignore it. At the very least, a > challenge to > one's position is a kind of reality check. FN >
Re: [Goanet] India, the hype and the reality... (Radharao Gracias)
Good to know that, unlike Nascy, Jim has heard of two Indian scientists mentioned by me. But from the earlier claim of zero contributions by Indians we now have the goal post being moved to lack of proportional contribution. Is this supposed to be contribution per capita or contribution per capita income? How much have Australia, South Africa, the Gulf states and most European countries contributed per capita income towards innovation and scientific advancement in the world? Indeed, more than 90% of the technological advancements have come from the United States. Nevertheless, unlike Nascy, Jim appears to have some genuine concerns, and makes genuine points with respect to government and private sector apathy in India when it comes to research and development. The lack of philanthropy on these fronts is also a huge problem. On these points, I agree with him completely. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Jim Fernandes wrote: > > I do not totally discount what > Santosh says. But we need to put our thoughts into current > context and perspectives. > > He listed four Indian individuals below who he considers as > having made radical discoveries or inventions. These > individuals may be considered great heroes in India, but > what he fails to admit is the fact that, out of a billion > plus population in India, we Indians do not contribute > proportionally to global advances and discoveries. > > By the way, out of these four individuals, I have only > heard of two - C V Raman, for the Raman Effect and S N Bose > - a famous physicist in whose honor, the sub-atomic > particles Bosons are named. > > I wouldn't shy away from criticizing India and its > government where it is due. To me, India is not only a weak > country, but it also ain't got the balls to fight for what > it is rightfully due. > > Take for instance, the current case of oil spill by BP in > the Gulf of Mexico. The Obama administration went after the > British company and made sure that BP is going to put up 20 > billion dollars in an escrow account to pay for the cleanup > and other expenses. > > In contrast, what did India do, when the toxic gas spill > ocurred in Bhopal that killed some 3000 people? They managed > to get peanuts from the American owned company and the > perpertrators have been given a pat on the wrist! If a > disaster of this magnitude had to happen in the United > States, the US government would have shaken Heaven and Earth > to make its people whole. > > Indians in general, are not true innovators; but we are > very good at copying what others do. Take for example, all > the hottest TV shows running in India. They are mostly > copy-cats of the Western shows. Even the movie industry in > India, copied its name from 'Hollywood' and changed it to > 'Bollywood'! > > India hardly produces any talent in sports either - the > evidence of which is clearly displayed during the Olympics. > If all the "football" playing countries had to play cricket, > India would be lucky to appear in the bottom fifty! > > Even though India produces hundreds of thousands highly > technical people each year, how many high technology gadgets > do you see, come out of India? Ofcourse, its not all the > fault of poor Indian people - but its the government policy > that discourages innovation. It is also the fault of Indian > corporations that spend very little on research and > development. In contrast, Western governments and their > companies, spend billions on research and development. > > Every smart nation knows the next biggest game changing > technologies are going to be in the field of 'clean energy' > and genetic science. How much money, do you think India is > investing to target the next biggest discoveries in these > fields? > > In India, if a billionaire has money, he spends it on > building a billion dollar house. In the US, the billionaires > are giving away their wealth to charities - and the money is > mostly spent on the poor who reside outside the US. > > We seem to love to bask in past glory and India's rich > history. Indians were just a bunch of poor peasants ruled by > princely kings. Hello? India was not even a formal country > until some sixty years ago. If it hadn't been for the Brits, > modern India, as we know it today, would not be there as a > single nation. > > I speak and understand very little Hindi, but I know what > the phrase 'Saare Jahan Se Accha' means. Sadly, India is not > it - which is why, I had to move out of there. > > Even then, for all its faults, we still love Goa and India > - because we all have our roots there. > > Jim F > New York. > >
Re: [Goanet] A new leaf in Goa's prehistory Linear cupules of Bambolim>History of human colonization of Tiswadi now goes back to mesolithic (10000 years BCE) period
Nandakumar, A couple of questions. First, are you preparing to send these findings for publication in a peer-reviewed archeological journal? That would be the appropriate thing to do to validate your findings. Second, I had read that the land of Goa was under the sea until about 1 B.C.E. How does your claim of humans having entered Goa 80,000 years ago conform with this fact? Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 7/3/10, Dr.Nandkumar Kamat wrote: > > On June 25 th I made an important > discovery on Bambolim plateau which pushes > back the history of human colonization of Tiswadi island to > 1 BCE > (humans entered Goa 60-8 years BCE) > It was the discovery of five groups of linear stone > cupules...vestiges of > prehistoric rock art, which I have dated to > mesolithic-early neolithic > period. these site was known to have a microlithic > industry. > I have already sent the pictures and details to IFRAO > chairman Australian > rock art researcher Dr. Robert Brednarick and awaiting his > comments > The first set of images of these rare finds are uploaded > at > http://picasaweb.google.com/Nandkamat/PrehistoryOfBambolimPlateauLinearCupulesAndMicroliths# > for public viewing and appreciation along with my > collection of microliths ( > 5000 years old) from ancient trails on the plateau.. > Feature stories on the discovery would be published in > English By Sunday > Panorama of The Navhind Times of July 4 th, 2010 and by Goa > edition of > Lokamat Marathi on the same day. > The creators of these cultural heritage were undoubtedly > the austric > settlers whom we know today as the coastal settlers of ST > Gavada community > occupying a continuous belt of southern Tiswadi from > Aivao-Taleigao to Palem > Siridao. They feel threatened due to urbanization and march > of concrete > forests. > The tribal heritage is almost gone and a few of us are > trying to survey and > document what remains of the ancestors of tribal > settlers.. > A more detailed monograph on this subject is due... > I thank the mother earth for having revealed this heritage > to me like a > vision. > I am still attempting to read the message behind it... > For sake of conserving the location I can't reveal it until > security > measures are put in place. > -- > Dr. Nandkumar Kamat, GOA >
Re: [Goanet] India, the hype and the reality... (Radharao Gracias)
Nascy, What you have written below and in an accompanying post is utter rubbish. You are fixated on what people eat, and how they dress. If they eat and dress like you, you call them civilized. Talk about mono-cultural, this is mono-maniacal stupidity. I am quite certain that the Australian professor who invited you for dinner would be laughing at you. He would certainly not have the prejudice against Indian culture that you as an Indian have based on idiotic notions such as eating beef and pork being better than eating lamb and chicken. I say it again. It is people like you who have migrated to Australia and elsewhere with your ignorance about your own motherland that are bringing shame to India. This incident with the professor illustrates it quite nicely. Your bogus charge about lack of originality, which you make despite being totally ignorant about the discoveries of Ramanujan, Raman, Bose and Mahalanobis, is also a classic illustration of your bigotry against your own people. Anybody else would have been embarrassed by the nonsense you have written, not knowing that these Indians were some of the world's greatest mathematicians and scientists. Ramanujan has been regarded by the rest of the world as one of the pre-eminent mathematical geniuses of all time. His original discoveries have led to the birth of severe new disciplines of mathematical research. An entire scholarly journal called "The Ramanujan Journal" is being published bimonthly since 1997 to report on original research stemming from his discoveries. Here is a description of that journal and a link to it: QUOTE The remarkable discoveries made by Srinivasa Ramanujan have made a great impact on several branches of mathematics, revealing deep and fundamental connections. This journal publishes papers of the highest quality in all areas of mathematics influenced by Ramanujan, including: Hyper-geometric and basic hyper-geometric series (q-series) * Partitions, compositions and combinatory analysis * Circle method and asymptotic formulae * Mock theta functions * Elliptic and theta functions * Modular forms and automorphic functions * Special functions and definite integrals * Continued fractions * Diophantine analysis including irrationality and transcendence * Number theory * Fourier analysis with applications to number theory * Connections between Lie algebras and q-series. UNQUOTE http://springerlink.com/content/102986/?sortorder=asc Raman made the original discovery of a new physical phenomenon, which earned him the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1930, and led to many technological advancements since, including Raman spectroscopy to identify the structure of various chemicals. Here is his official Nobel Prize webpage: http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1930/raman-bio.html S. N. Bose made one of the most astounding original discoveries in Quantum Mechanics, which led to the birth of a new field in Physics called Bose-Einstein Statistics. This has led to the award of, not one, but several Nobel Prizes in Physics, the most recent one being in 2001 for the experimental confirmation of Bose-Einstein condensate, a completely new state of matter predicted by Bose's theory. Here is the Nobel Prize website for that discovery: http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/2001/public.html Mahalanobis was one of the world's great pioneers in Multi-variate Statistics and statistical surveys. His original discoveries are being used everyday in most statistical studies and in econometrics today, as well as to develop expert systems for data mining and for stock market and financial predictions. I say once again. It is not the poor illiterate Indians who give India a bad name. The people who do so are supposedly educated people like you who, instead of learning about the real problems that India faces and trying to solve them, spit on it out of ignorance and prejudice because of your knee-jerk fawning tendency towards everything that is foreign. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 7/4/10, Nascy Caldeira wrote: > > Santosh, > I asked U about the stalwarts,that U mention and U are > saying that I said they are philosophers. Are they > philosophers is what I meant asking you, OK? > > I acknowledge and so does the world that India has produced > many a mathemathical genius and many a science genious too; > but what great 'original' discoveries or 'original' > inventions have come from these great persons who are > talking about? > > I do not know. Have they? then U may please enumerate for > our knowledge. Simple as that. > > I have said to you before that Indian total Culture is > good; but there are many Bad and Ugly parts,and Bad concepts > in Indian Culture that are giving all Indians a bad name. > This is my primary 'resentment' And the educated Hindu > Indians are doing nothing about it! Because of these > shameful practices all Indians get the bad name; outsiders > will not an
Re: [Goanet] India the hype...
--- On Mon, 7/5/10, Bernado Colaco wrote: > >Like Santosh remarks to Nasci - I am ashamed of being an indian. > What I said was that it was people like Nascy who bring shame to India. Like Jose, I did not know that Bernado considered himself an Indian. I thought that he was either a Portuguese or a Chinese. So now I must include Bernado among those Indians who give India a bad name. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Who dunnit? A Eureka moment (part 2)
I read and re-read this part 2 of eureka moment. I still do not know what the eureka moment is. I also do not know why Gilbert keeps copying and pasting verbatim some of the same stuff he had posted on Goanet not very long ago. Please see his earlier post entitled "Recapping Goa's History" in January of this year: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg62641.html But this time he has also included a novel revised version of history regarding temple destruction that is unfamiliar to me, and most likely to people who have read or learned the history of Goa in high school or college. Here is the excerpt that I am referring to: QUOTE Property destruction from initial naval and later land warfare resulted from targeted and collateral hits (of cannon balls from both sides) and fires; which likely damaged or destroyed all residential homes, government buildings, and places of worship - Hindu temples, Muslim mosques, Jewish synagogues, Syrian Orthodox churches, etc - which some claim existed in Tiswadi prior to the Portuguese arrival. Clearly any structure occupying the vantage point of hilltops would be prime targets to attack and occupy from a military-strategic perspective. UNQUOTE ..Gilbert Lawrence Now since Gilbert admits he is not a full time student of history and military strategy, one would have to check whether the above speculations have any validity from the genuine historical standpoint. I would therefore ask him to provide us with the original historical source for his statements in the above excerpt. This is important because most Goanetters would surely like to know the real history of Goa rather than a false revisionist version. I would also appreciate it if some historian or full time student of history on Goanet could tell us whether Gilbert's version is more accurate than the standard version. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 7/4/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > A Eureka moment (Part 2). Please > refresh yourself with the issues in part 1 > which are summarized below. > > In the absence of hard data from 500 years ago, we are left > with piecing > together clues for a reasoned-unbiased reader to draw their > own conclusions. I > had the god fortune to undertake some history-reading; > since this is the 500th > anniversary of Portuguese gaining a foothold in Goa on the > island of Tiswadi > ... With three consecutive / sequential > repairs and reconstructions in 1510 of the various military > structures in > Tiswadi, likely very little recyclable material was left to > build other > structures, like homes or churches, as some have written. > > Hope the analysis does not significantly contradict any of > the well-repeated > dogmas of what happened in Goa (Tiswadi) in 1510 and in > its aftermath. I am > neither a full-time student of military strategy or > history. Individuals whose > "intuitions and speculations" have been contradicted, can > look on this article > as building on their endeavors. > > I would sincerely appreciate feedback and comments, backed > by facts and devoid > of supercilious remarks. Thanks. > > > Regards, GL >
Re: [Goanet] chauvanism versus patriotism
--- On Tue, 7/6/10, radharao gracias wrote: > > I must compliment Santosh Helekar, at the outset, for > proving me right. He has taken over the leadership of the chauvanists. > I feel vindicated by the response that has come from fellow > Indians settled abroad. > Vindicated? How convenient it is to move the goal post when caught in a blatant falsehood! Here is what Adv. Gracias said self-assuredly in his Herald article: "Our contribution to civilization, (and it cannot be disputed) is "zero". No pun intended." .Adv. Radharao Gracias And now he says this: "Santosh Helekar has in his several comments pointed out the names of Srinivasan Ramanujan, S.N.Bose, P.C.Mahanabolis and C.V.Raman to buttress his point about the greatness of India. In doing so, he has completely backed my argument. It is not my case that India per se is bad but, our “way of life” has made it so. Each of the four individuals mentioned above were born in the nineteenth century and lived most of their productive lives in British India." .Adv. Radharao Gracias So which side of Adv. Gracias' mouth should we believe? The one which says we Indians have made zero contribution to civilization, no pun intended. Or the one which claims that we made our contributions only when the British were ruling over us. What's worse is he will have to move the goal post again, or this time speak from his nose or something, because the truth is Indians have continued to make original scientific contributions in the post-independence era. The reason Adv. Gracias does not know this is because he has not bothered to find out. Yes, no Indian working in independent India has yet won the Nobel Prize in scientific subjects, but that has more to do with the high cost and advanced state of scientific research today than anything else. As the famous Physics Nobel Laureate Paul Dirac once remarked, referring to the late 19th and early 20th centuries (coincident with Adv. Gracias' British times), contrasting it with modern times, and I paraphrase, it was a glorious time when a second rate physicist could do first rate work. Whereas, now it is very difficult for a first rate physicist to do second rate work. But independent India has continued to produce outstanding indigenous scientists of high international standing. There have been at least 20 Fellows of the Royal Society among those who made their original discoveries after independence. Our own Raghunath Mashelkar, FRS is one of them. The present day genius of the caliber of S. N. Bose is Ashoke Sen, FRS, a world-renowned theoretical physicist at the Harish-Chandra Research Institute, Allahbad, who is one of the pioneers of advanced string theory. There have been a few were unlucky not to win the Nobel Prize, such as G. N. Ramachandran who discovered the structure of collagen, and contributed to the theory behind the CAT scan. There are several national institutes such as Indian Statistical Institute, Tata Institute of Fundamental Research, The Inter-University Centre for Astronomy and Astrophysics, Indian Institute of Science, The National Centre for Biological Sciences, etc, that are making steady original contributions to expand the frontiers of science. Of course, the unsung heroes behind these discoveries would not easily make it on the evening news. They would also not register on Adv. Gracias' politically tuned radar because RSS and other Hindu extremists do not care much about non-Vedic "science", and for his Maoist "saviors", this is capitalist, western, corporate science. Furthermore, if we follow his revised logic and Nobel yardstick to compare India with Turkey, his exemplar of an ideally developed nation, then despite having all the advantages of proximity with advanced European countries, Turkey has had no Nobel prize winner in science, economics, or peace, and just one in literature. Portugal has had one science prize, and Spain two, one of which was for work done in the U.S. Indeed, the vast majority of science Nobel prizes credited to any country in the world have been awarded for work done in the U.S. In other words, what you are hearing from Adv. Gracias in this regard is pure nonsense. However, I will close by answering his questions. > >If India is so great why do our people have to go abroad to reach > intellectual fulfillment? > Rather than cast India in jingoistic terms, I would prefer to simply oppose Indians who denigrate their own country and countrymen out of ignorance, or for political, ideological or religious reasons. As I have shown above, intellectual fulfillment can be attained in India. But it is often difficult to do so because of lack of facilities, resources and specific expertise, which are heavily dependent on availability of funds for academic research. > >If India is great why would these peopl
Re: [Goanet] chauvanism versus patriotism
--- On Wed, 7/7/10, radharao gracias wrote: > >I fail to understand whether Santosh Helekar is deliberately >misinterpreting >the contents of my article or he lacks knowledge of the >English language. In my article, I have stated: "Our contribution to >civilization, (and it cannot be disputed) is "zero". “No pun intended." I >>maintain, reiterate and reconfirm it. It is well known and undisputed >fact >that India invented “zero” and it cannot be disputed that it is our > contribution to World Civilisation and that is why I have put the word > >“zero” in inverted commas. > As I had predicted in my last post, Adv. Gracias has once again moved the goal post, and is now speaking through his nose. To demonstrate this, let me quote his concluding remark in the Herald article in its entirety. Here it is: "Our contribution to civilization, (and it cannot be disputed) is "zero". No pun intended. We have become the coelacanth, of civilization. We are not great. We have to strive to be great." .Adv. Radharao Gracias I do not know what advanced English is taught in colleges of law or spoken in Goan courts by advocates, but the English I learned in primary and secondary school has equipped me to understand quite well that what he meant in the above quotes is not the same as what he meant in his subsequent quotes below: "Santosh Helekar has in his several comments pointed out the names of Srinivasan Ramanujan, S.N.Bose, P.C.Mahanabolis and C.V.Raman to buttress his point about the greatness of India. In doing so, he has completely backed my argument. It is not my case that India per se is bad but, our “way of life” has made it so. Each of the four individuals mentioned above were born in the nineteenth century and lived most of their productive lives in British India. It is under British rule that they blossomed and flowered. That is precisely my point that the British system encouraged intellectual development." Adv. Radharao Gracias Ramanujan, Bose, Mahalanobis and Raman did not contribute "zero" to civilization. Pun or no pun. Aryabhatta who contributed "zero" to Indian civilization did not live any part of his productive life in British India. Their contributions, and those of present day Indian scientists like Ashoke Sen clearly demonstrate that we are not the coelacanth of civilization, assuming that Adv. Gracias is unaware that coelacanth is not exactly an extinct fish. The fact that he does not regard that there is any greatness in the invention of zero, which was made in the 5th century A.D., or in the contributions of the 20th century geniuses I mentioned, is clear from the following introductory remark from his Herald article: "There has been no greatness about our country, not in the last two thousand years or so." .Adv. Radharao Gracias What takes the cake this time, however, is that even after his thoughtless assertions having been thoroughly repudiated by facts, this gentleman keeps insisting that what I have written in response to his misplaced self-hate, vindicates his disproved claims. The truth is that there is absolutely no agreement between my conclusions and his. Let me quote his already discredited claims verbatim, and show how they completely contradict what I have said. "But it is my case that nothing substantial has been achieved by Indian research post independence." Adv. Radharao Gracias I have shown that the post-independence work of G. N. Ramachandran and Ashoke Sen among several other Fellows of Royal Society and unsung heroes of Indian scientific institutions constitute substantial achievements in science. "If it was not for our “way of life”, we would have dozens of Nobel Prize winners." Adv. Radharao Gracias I have shown that his own exemplar of a better "way of life" than India, namely Turkey has not won a single Nobel prize. I have also stated that Portugal and Spain, whose "ways of life", I would bet, are quite agreeable to him, have won very few Nobel prizes compared to India. Furthermore, the repeated use of the term in quotes, "way of life", is curious. Reading between the lines, it strikes me as a subtle and sophisticated version of the crude and churlish references of Nascy Caldeira to "eating beef and pork" and "wearing western clothes", as being culturally superior to being a "vegetarian" or "eating lamb and chicken", and wearing a poodvem and saadee. Adv. Gracias' diagnosis of the reasons for a country achieving greatness on the scientific front are also totally wrong-headed from my standpoint. Please see this quote of his, for example: "Precisely so, I would like my country to be what the US is today. And the only way we can do it, is by discarding superstitions, jingoism, bi
Re: [Goanet] Goa in the gutter (addendum) and chauvanism versus patriotism debate on Goanet
--- On Thu, 7/8/10, pinheiro wrote: > > Two observation on these debates: > > Are we Goans Pseudointellectual? > > Goanet is the only place wherein you can even strip and > slap (with words) the Moderator/Admin and you are > still not thrown out of the forum. > My two observations regarding this comment from a new poster. Is he claiming that forums with real intellectuals throw people out if they verbally slap the moderator? BTW, Admin Noronha insists that he is not the moderator of Goanet. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
The following personal attack against me because of a private matter was posted in this forum by Jim Fernandes without my permission in clear violation of laws governing such public forums. I would request Goanet moderators not to allow on public forums such personal attacks originating from private exchanges. As for ccing public responses to publicly displayed posts to authors of these posts or to other mailing lists, there is no breach of any kind. Nobody can prevent any free citizen of the world from ccing anything in the public domain to anybody, and eliciting comment or discussion. No permission is required from Jim Fernandes or anybody else. Cross pollination in the public domain is a good thing. On the other hand, attacking people publicly because of private issues, or hurling publicly or on cc lists the filthiest obscenities at them is unlawful, subject to legal and criminal action. Cheers, Santosh --- On Fri, 7/9/10, Jim Fernandes wrote: > > The reason I am writing about this on GoaNet is because, a > fellow GoaNetter named Santosh Helekar included me in this > non-GoaNet related group, when I responded to a thread on > GoaNet. He had no business of cross-pollinating debates and > then include my email ID, in such external groups, without > my permission. If it was a matter of sending one-on-one > emails, its altogether a different story. > > GoaNet admin should take note of this breach. If a member > is found to cross pollinate GoaNet debates in the future, > he/she should be dropped from GoaNet membership. > > I have been on GoaNet since 1996. This is a great place to > meet other Goans and over the years, I must add, that I have > made several friends on GoaNet. > > My only request is, if you wish to debate me, come on > GoaNet - don't drag me elsewhere. > > Thanks, > > Jim F > New York. > >
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
Shri Fernandes, These bogus rules and etiquettes of yours are a figment of your imagination. Goanet has no such rules. It is a public forum. Discussions on it can be continued in any other forum or mailing list. What a private free citizen does in this regard is his/her own business. Nobody can do anything about it. Permission is needed only to post private emails and discussions in public forums, not the other way round. For eaxmple, I need permission from you to post in a Goan public forum the filthy abusive emails you have cced to me and others personally. Please give me that permission. We will then see who broke the rules, etiquettes and laws. Regarding the electronic proof you have against me to nail me, I give you full permission to post it on Goanet. It will give people a chance to assess the credibility of your claims. Cheers, Santosh --- On Fri, 7/9/10, Jim Fernandes wrote: > > Mr Helekar, > > You are the one who started this non-sense by taking a > GoaNet debate to an outside entity. Therefore, you are the > one who initiated this break in etiquette. > > I have posted this topic on GoaNet because the debate > started on GoaNet - you took it private to some group you > obviously feel comfortable with. This is in clear violation > of net etiquette and GoaNet rules. > > I dare you to take me to any court of law - I have all the > electronic proof with me to nail you. > > I am heading to a nice vacation with my family, so I won't > be able to respond to any more emails till my return. > > Jim F > New York >
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
Instead of sticking to existing Goanet rules, and abiding by them himself, in the first place, while strictly observing the duties of an administrator entrusted with the responsibility of running a mailing list, Admin Noronha is manufacturing bogus controversies. He is corrupting the meaning of the words "harvesting" and "spamming" to smear people, one of whom is not even a member of Goanet. A response to a message or an article posted on a public mailing list cced to its author and to another mailing list to guard against its being blocked or delayed for several days, does not constitute spamming or harvesting of email addresses. There are many Goanetters who like to debate issues privately and on other mailing lists to avoid being subjected to the making up of arbitrary rules based on erratic personal biases and fabricated definitions of common words, as above. Speaking for myself, when I participate in these debates or cc my Goanet response to the author of an original public post, I always comply with the latter's wishes, if he or she asks me not to cc subsequent responses to him or her, any more. Cheers, Santosh --- On Fri, 7/9/10, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > I think the point is not about > quoting from a public archive, but > rather *harvesting* email IDs from a public mailing list > and then > *spamming* people out of their mind... Even when there are > repeated > requests from them to be taken off the cc "list" they > didn't ask to be > on, in the first place. > > As for me, I find this sometimes rather entertaining and > keeps one in > humour on a slow day in Goa. (Someone seems to be so keen > to ensure I > read them via this list, that they placed my address on > readnotify.com > -- so everytime I read the incessant circle of abuses, a > notification > goes out :-) And you thought eyeballs came cheap?) > > In addition, such an endeavour keeps other grumpy old men > like me > busy, so that lessens the kind of damage that can be done > had they to > run loose and amuck on more widely-read fora. > > Only problem is: when someone wants to get off this > 'spammers list' > and he's dragged back kicking and squealing everytime. I > think this is > as unfair as laughing at the pig we're going to slice up > for the > feast, as he keeps protesting! > > FN > > On 10 July 2010 00:56, Santosh Helekar > wrote: > > Shri Fernandes, > > These bogus rules and etiquettes of yours are > > a figment of your imagination. Goanet has no > > such rules. It is a public forum. Discussions > > on it can be continued in any other forum or > > mailing list. What a private free citizen does > > in this regard is his/her own business. Nobody > > can do anything about it. Permission is needed > > only to post private emails and discussions > > in public forums, not the other way round. > > For eaxmple, I need permission from you to > > post in a Goan public forum the filthy abusive > > emails you have cced to me and > > others personally. Please give me that > > permission. We will then see who broke > > the rules, etiquettes and laws. > > Regarding the electronic proof you have > > against me to nail me, I give you full > > permission to post it on Goanet. It will > > give people a chance to assess the credibility > > of your claims. >
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
--- On Sat, 7/10/10, Edward Verdes wrote: > > I had asked to be off this list but still I am there..my email ID is being > >flashed on goemchim xapotom and also another recently formed group...though > >am no longer subscribed to these groups. > Like Admin Noronha, Eddie is telling you a falsehood here regarding Goenchim Xapotam and another Goan Yahoo group. Unlike Goanet, Yahoo groups do not allow complete email addresses to be flashed to the public on the internet. Instead, you see something like this: "Frederick Noronha wrote:" Please see the following GX post for example: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GoenchimXapotam/message/28791 On the other hand, Goanet flashes Eddie's email address every time he posts on it. It is displayed as follows: "eddieverdes at hotmail.com" Please see this link on the Goanet archives: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-July/195788.html Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
The Wikipedia definitions of email harvesting and email spam below make it crystal clear how Admin Noronha is distorting these meanings to badmouth those who like being subscribed to alternative Goan mailing lists, such as Goenchim Xapotam, or be on a cc list consisting of Goans who have quit Goanet, rightly or wrongly, in their opinion, out of personal distaste for its lack of transparency and excessive ideological control. So let me set the record straight to readers who have been misled by the smokescreen created by Noronha and others, in this thread. Some Goans, including me, like to post our writings on other Goan mailing lists such as Goenchim Xapotam (GX) and a cc list consisting of non-Goanetters such as Miguel Braganza, Cornel Da Costa, Anand Virgincar, Mario Goveia, Kevin Saldanha, etc. We like these lists because, unlike Goanet, they are completely transparent and unmoderated. Everybody is equal on these lists. On these lists an administrator like Admin Noronha cannot exercise control over what others say. No wonder he does not like them. One of the principles some of us like to abide by is when we respond to a Goanet post either on Goanet or in the latter forums, we want to make sure we cc our responses to the authors of the posts to which we are responding. This courtesy ensures that these authors remain aware of any subsequent discussions that might ensue. We do not want these authors to be abused, smeared or badmouthed behind their back, without being afforded a chance to defend themselves. Now this can lead to the following three inadvertent problems: 1. The author might not appreciate a response to his post, and the follow-up arguments being cced to him. 2. Other members of these lists might use the "reply all" option to post unrelated messages to these unmoderated lists, which might lead to unwanted emails in the cced author's inbox. Speaking for myself, whenever an author has requested me to remove his/her name from these lists in such cases, I have promptly complied with their request. 3. One of the members of these lists might decide to cc his responses to some of his friends, in which case the latter would receive all subsequent responses when the "reply all" option is used by everybody. This happens all the time even with regard to official email correspondence in large institutions. For example, Admin Noronha added Miguel Braganza to the cc list of non-Goanetters, and Miguel in turn added some of his friends to that list recently - personalities that were completely unknown to most of us. Any person who would then tell others in a public forum that Admin Noronha harvested Miguel's email address, and Miguel did so to those of his friends to spam them would not be telling the truth. Indeed, the above description should reveal to any reasonable person that none of this amounts to harvesting of emails or spamming, as claimed by Admin Noronha. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 7/10/10, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > E-mail harvesting is the process of obtaining lists of > e-mail > addresses using various methods for use in bulk e-mail or > other > purposes usually grouped as spam... > Another common method is the use of special software known > as > "harvesting bots" or "harvesters", which spider Web pages, > postings on > Usenet, mailing list archives, internet forums and other > online > sources to obtain e-mail addresses from public data. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-mail_address_harvesting > > E-mail spam, also known as junk e-mail, is a subset of spam > that > involves nearly identical messages sent to numerous > recipients by > e-mail. A common synonym for spam is unsolicited bulk > e-mail (UBE). > Definitions of spam usually include the aspects that email > is > unsolicited and sent in bulk. "UCE" refers specifically to > unsolicited > commercial e-mail. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-mail_spam > > Everyone who has been a unwilling victim of the "spammers > list" knows > that this is exactly what happened (though no software was > used to > harvest address, it was done manually). > > I do not think it is very edifying to see grown men pour > scorn and > heap abuse on each other's head, by the bucketful, and > believe that it > is "debate". What is even more tragic is that some of the > gentlemen on > this list are highly qualified experts in their own > respective fields. > > Have we Goans lost the gene for rational discussion? FN >
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
Francis (FCA) Rodriguez wrote: > >Only a threat to inform his employer stopped the dysfunctional Helekar from >>spamming me too. He does not believe in a "Do Not Spam" policy. Helekar is >>not a don't - just a can't! > Please note that FCA Rodriguez has found this an opportunity to abuse me because of his personal issues. What he is saying above is false. Nobody is afraid of FCA Rodriguez's threats. I for one simply complied with his request to be removed from GX and the cc list, as I have done for others. Waylusha still receives all the emails on the cc list. Isabel Joannes has done so as well. All fake IDs on Goanet who abuse others because of personal issues are placed on the cc list by default. Since FCA shares his computer with Isabel and Waylusha, he still receives all the posts on the cc list. If he does not want Waylusha and Isabel to receive emails on the list, then I would ask them to send us a polite request. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
Edward Verdes wrote: > >Pls tell goanetters what falsehoods I have spread here? > Eddie, The falsehoods you have spread and are spreading now are the following: 1. That your email ID is flashed on GX and AGD. 2. That someone can get your email ID by simply signing onto a Yahoo account. 3. That we are discussing you and Admin Noronha behind your backs. (Both you and Noronha were personally cced any post mentioning your names, in addition to them being posted on Goanet and/or GX. Admin Noronha is permanent member of GX, as well as the cc list). 4. That your name is appearing in all the messages posted on GX. 5. That I am responsible for creating a long cc list. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 7/11/10, Edward Verdes wrote: > > Santosh, > You admit that my name does flash on your groups..why shud > even part of the > email id with my name be exposed on your groups if I am not > a member of that group or not even related to that > discussion? > If anyone wants to send a message to any of the half > exposed ids one has to sign in the yahoo account. > I am also exposed to the others in the long list that you > have created which is CCed to many including the groups. > . > Now you have gone and posted a message on your group with > my and Freds name as subject line, that we are > spreading falsehoods...is it not true that my Name is > appearing in the messages in your group without me being a > member > there? Why are you discussing behind my backs? Pls tell > goanetters what falsehoods I have spread here? > > I am subscribed to goanet and I have no problem with goanet > flashing my ID, but am not the member of goemchim xapotam > or diryeo so my name shud not appear on that group and even > pvt. list that you have created. > > Edward Verdes >
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
Eddie, Here are answers to your questions. --- On Sun, 7/11/10, Edward Verdes wrote: > > You have still not answered my question why even part of my > email address which can be replied by the group members > is appearing in GX and AGD of which I am not a member? > The reason your name (not your email address) appeared on GX in that message is because someone posted that message containing your name to that forum. Neither I nor Yahoo groups can prevent a free private citizen from mentioning your name in a message to any forum, including Goanet, or ccing a message to you. > > Your point no 1 n 2..Here is a msg i just checked on GX. I > am not a memeber but still i can access it. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GoenchimXapotam/message/28747 > on opening the msg one can see the email ids that are in > the mail just hit on any email id links and it will ask u to sign in > your yahoo address where you can write a mail > Again you are spreading falsehoods. You have access to GX on the web because GX archives are public, just like Goanet. Nobody can see the email IDs that are in the mail. If you hit on the email id links, you are asked to sign in on that group website. You cannot sign in on that website if you are not a member of that Yahoo group. Even if you are a member, you still cannot see any of the email IDs of the members, unless you also receive emails from that group. > > Your point no 3. When I had posted on goanet with the abv subject line, >was > it not sufficient that you discuss it here instead of posting on GX >and > changing the subject line as Eddie and Noronha spreading falsehoods >on > Goanet http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GoenchimXapotam/message/28797 > No, because GXers have a right to know when someone is badmouthing their forum in another Goan forum. > >Is this not discussing me behind my back? knowing that I am not a member >of >GX? > No, because you received a cc of that post, and because GX archives are public. > > Why is it necessary to send a pvt cc when you are posting > it goanet? > Because Goanet being a heavily moderated list there is chance that the cced post might not appear on it, or appear on it only after a delay of several days. > > And finally pls tell us who created the pvt list initially? > I don't know. But certainly not me. Cheers, Santosh
[Goanet] Other Goan forums
Admin Noronha wrote: > >While nobody seems to how to get off the lists, I'm willing to bet that >nobody knows either of how one can get ON these lists! As of now, it >is a priviledge of only a select few. Either you are born into it, >or... > >For those who are curious, check out: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goenchimxapotam/ >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AmcheaGoencaranchioDhirio/ > >For some reason, the Dhirio archives are not open to non-subscribers. >Is that because of the law on dhirio in Goa? Or are the bulls >misbehaving there too? FN > The above statements contain misinformation. How to subscribe and unsubscribe to GX and AGD is clearly stated in the above links. Here is the specific quote on the GX website: QUOTE Group Email Addresses Post message: goenchimxapo...@yahoogroups.com Subscribe: goenchimxapotam-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Unsubscribe:goenchimxapotam-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com List owner: goenchimxapotam-ow...@yahoogroups.com UNQUOTE GX is an unmoderated forum to discuss any issue for any length of time. AGD is meant only for any two Goans who are at loggerheads with each other, and want to keep arguing back and forth indefinitely. Members of these forums, as with any other Yahoo Group can enable the "no email" option. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
--- On Sun, 7/11/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > It is so easy to bad-mouth others. Goans make a virtue to those >crab-like > traits with convoluted arguments and sophistry. > Why is Gilbert badmounthing and abusing other Goans and other Goan forums on Goanet. Is he afflicted with the crab mentality? Is he jealous of his fellow Goans, and want to pull them down by any means he can? Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 7/11/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > The sad part, the main proponents of this "over-the-top" > Goan site are > individuals who are hyper-critical of Goanet moderators. > > > > So they went ahead and formed their own site - "Amchea > Goencarachio Dhirio" ani > thea bhair GX. They (and we) soon discovered that the > only way they maintained > their circulation is to create an unsolicited list of > e-mails. And then force > individuals to continue to be on them; despite repeated > private and public > requests to remove our names from these lists. So much > for netiquette and > logic; generated after graduate and > post-graduate college degrees. Saiba bogos! > > As many of the leaders of this alternative site are my > colleagues, it saddens me > that their stature and credibility has been eroded by their > own doing. Yet, > they have themselves to blame for the abysmal showing. > As pointed-out, > on occasion, one can love their explanations and their > misinformation. But taken > "en-mass", after one-day's posts, the postings were a > tragedy and an > embarrassment, that all except the posters could see. > > > I only hope they feel the least bit of guilt or > responsibility. And appreciate > the efforts and success of existing Goan net sites. This > should teach them > to APPRECIATE THE WORK OF MODERATORS OF THESE SITES and > thank them for the > yeomen work. It is so easy to bad-mouth others. Goans > make a virtue to those > crab-like traits with convoluted arguments and sophistry. > > Regards, GL >
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
Bosco wrote: > >Rico, Eddie, Jim, etc are only expressing themselves too simply. > Does Goanet consider personal attacks against fellow Goans by individuals such as Francis, Gilbert, etc. expressing themselves too simply? Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Rupee signs and Indians
Is Rajan Portuguese? Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Rajan P. Parrikar wrote: > > Gee, I guess after the invention of "zero" the next great > invention of Indians is the rupee sign. Great work, > Indians. We are all so proud of you. > > > r >
Re: [Goanet] Rupee signs and Indians
Is Admin Noronha fabricating as usual again? Nobody said being Portuguese equals anti-India. The question was asked because some Goans are or consider themselves Portuguese. The question was prompted by the following remark of Rajan: "Great work, Indians. We are all so proud of you." One who recognized that he was an Indian would not have referred to his compatriots as "you". Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > Is Portuguese = anti-India? That > equation might have held till 1961, > or even till 1974 (if we're referring to those who > controlled the > Portuguese State till the carnations came along.) FN >
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
--- On Mon, 7/19/10, Jim Fernandes wrote: > >It is not the figment of my imagination, but a click on the > below URL might help Mr Helekar to refresh his neurons with > GoaNet rules: > > http://goanet.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=9 > Once again, Shri Fernandes is spouting nonsense from his imagination rather than what is displayed in black and white on the above Goanet rules page. There is no Goanet rule which prevents a Goanetter from posting elsewhere or ccing to a Goanetter anything that is first posted on Goanet. There is no Goanet rule which requires that permission be asked of a Goanetter to post or cc a response to him elsewhere. Admin Noronha himself posts a lot of his Goanet material in other Goan forums such as Goa Research Net and Secular Goa forums, and his sundry blogs and websites. So do many other Goanetters. For example, here is one Noronha emission on Goanet: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-December/171509.html Here is a cross post of the same drivel on Goa Research Net: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-research-net/message/3962 > > So the real question becomes: Who broke the rules first? > Indeed, the answer to this question is it is Shri Fernandes, not me, who broke the rules and still continues to break them. Here is the rule that he broke previously: "Do not engage in personal attacks" Goanet Rule Please note below that he continues to break it even now: "I don't understand what this unofficial GoaNet side kick Josephine AKA Bahama Mama is getting excited about. This joker with his pea sized brain cannot compreshend the simple logic behind the use of my language on their list. I classify pricks like these, as natures freaks." Shri Jim Fernandes abusing another Goanetter The foul language above also breaks the following Goanet rule: "Do not use foul, offensive or abusive language. Maintain a level of decency and respect to fellow Goanetters at all times." Goanet Rule Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Jim Fernandes wrote: > > OK - So I am back fresh from my short > vacation and ready to skin Mr Helekar ... :) > > In my humble opinion, GoaNet admin is doing a fantastic > job. Folks like Fred and Bosco (and possibly more people) > are putting in countless hours, to ensure the network is > running as smooth as possible. While hardly anybody ever > thanks them for their FREE work, all one usually finds is a > constant criticism of the admin team - and Mr Helekar is no > exception. All they need to do now is to enforce GoaNet > rules uniformly and kick out garbage from this sane network > of Goans. > > Mr Helekar is conveniently leading us to believe that he is > either very naive or that he is genuinely ignorant. To cover > his misdeeds, Mr Helekar is now using warped logic to make > his point. There is a saying, > "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it > drink". In Mr Helekars terms, this saying would amount to > "If you can lead it to water and make it drink - it must be > a horse!". > > Wow!!! > > Cross posting of GoaNet debates has been dis-allowed for > years. I am not exactly sure of when the rules were made > (Please check with Herman / GoaNet admin team), but one used > to get a copy of the rules > whenever he/she first subscribed to GoaNet. > > It is not the figment of my imagination, but a click on the > below URL might help Mr Helekar to refresh his neurons with > GoaNet rules: > > http://goanet.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=9 > > Mr Helekar cross posted my response to an on-going GoaNet > debate to an outside entity. This is a clear violation of > GoaNet rules. That entity "harvested" my email address to > post totally unrelated messages back to me. When I politely > requested the members of this entity to kindly remove me > from their list, at least one person refused to take my > email address out. I pleaded to remove my email ID from > their list both privately and publicly - not once or twice - > but several times - with no luck. > > Since nothing worked, I finally resorted to using what I > call 'third degree French'. If I am forced to put up with > their crap, then the members of this outside entity better > get used to mine - its as simple as that. > I never gave Mr Helekar permission to post my response on > GoaNet to an outside entity to begin with. > > So the real question becomes: Who broke the rules first? > > By the time I got back from my vacation, it was a pleasant > surprise that I am finally out of their list! > > A Side Note To The Side Kick: > I don't understand what this unofficial GoaNet side kick > Josephine AKA Bahama Mama is getting excited about. This > joker with his pea sized brain cannot compreshend the simple > logic behind the use of my language on their list. > > I classify pricks like these, as natures freaks. > > Jim F > New York >
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
Shri Fernandes, It is clear that you are not able to quote a single Goanet rule which explicitly states that I cannot post my Goanet post anywhere else, nor that I have to ask your permission to do it, as you claimed. So now you are resorting to this kabuki dance of asking me to search for key words. Any sensible person knows that for Goanet to call something a cross post it has to be posted somewhere else before. A response that is first posted on Goanet is not a cross post by definition. It may be a cross post later on in some other forum if it is posted there. That forum can then reject it as a cross post if it wants. So I will say this again one more time. I have every right to post or cc a response to your nonsense anywhere I want. There is nothing you can do about it, nor anyone else. If you abuse me in response, it is you who will be thrown out of Goanet for breaking the rules, not me. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Jim Fernandes wrote: > > Senhor Helekar, > > This is basically my point - you are conveniently omitting > pieces of GoaNet rules to suit your argument. > > I am not into spoon feeding, but will make exception for > senhor Helekars sake: > > Please search for the key word "cross posts" in GoaNet > rules and you will see what I mean by my assertion. Please > check whether GoaNet dis-allows "cross posts". > > If others are cross-posting your responses you have a right > to take up your case. You have NO right to cross-post mine. > > In the same vein when I see someone or some entity > mis-using my email ID to publicly claim that I am in their > mailing list, I reserve the right to use any language I want > - to pay back - specially if they refuse to remove my ID > from their list. > > Had you not cross-posted my GoaNet email to your private > list, you and your Old Boy Network, you would have saved > yourself a lot of grief. > > Bahama Mama got my rebuke because he asked for it :) > > Better get used to my language if you decide to break > GoaNet rules to post my GoaNet messages to other lists. I am > going haunt you even in your dreams :) > > You have no argument to challenge my response "post-facto". > You broke the rule first - therefore whatever follows is a > consequence of your initiative. If you think I broke GoaNet > rule, it is because you broke it first. I am only defending > myself. > > Does that make sense? > > > Jim F > New York >
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
Shri Fernandes, It looks like you are at a point now that you need some kind of emotional release. Unfortunately, I suspect you are afraid to do this in public. But you have started escalating your abusive behavior to a new level. You have now also graduated to lying about what I said in response to the personal attack that you initiated against me on Goanet. First, here are new examples of your indecent abusive verbiage and name-calling directed at me in continued clear violation of a Goanet rule: "Are you visually challenged or brain dead?" Shri Jim Fernandes abusing me " A looser like senhor Helekar when he realizes he is loosing a debate, he forwards his target's email address to his private list as a punishment, whose at least one member engages in spam." Shri Jim Fernandes abusing me more Second, here is the lie that you are now telling Goanetters about what I said in response to your initial personal attack against me, in violation of another Goanet rule: "Some days ago, you claimed GoaNet has no rules whatesoever." Shri Jim Fernandes lying in public about what I said. This is what I actually said in my post some days ago: "These bogus rules and etiquettes of yours are a figment of your imagination. Goanet has no such rules." Santosh Helekar referring to the specific fictitious rules and etiquettes that Shri Fernandes was fantasizing about. Please note the phrases "bogus rules and etiquettes of yours" and "no such rules". Please see the following link to my relevant Goanet post: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg63983.html Here is Shri Fernandes' statement about these specific fictitious rules to which I referred as "such rules": "I have posted this topic on GoaNet because the debate started on GoaNet - you took it private to some group you obviously feel comfortable with. This is in clear violation of net etiquette and GoaNet rules." Shri Jim Fernandes fabricating some new non-existent Goanet rules Please see http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg63982.html The fact that I have always been fully aware of Goanet rules is clear from the following response of mine to Admin Noronha in the same thread immediately after: "Instead of sticking to existing Goanet rules, and abiding by them himself, in the first place, while strictly observing the duties of an administrator entrusted with the responsibility of running a mailing list, Admin Noronha is manufacturing bogus controversies." .Santosh Helekar Please see: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg64009.html Now, let me address the new canards you are pulling and the empty threats you are making in this public forum, unable to point to a single Goanet rule that explicitly states what you have fabricated from your imagination. Shri Jim Fernandes wrote: > > What portion of the above rule do you not understand senhor > Helekar? > The portion of your mentality that drives you to post only a portion of the entire rule. The important main portion of the rule that you conveniently left out of your quote is the following: "Do not post spam." Goanet Rule Please see: http://www.goanet.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=9 Sensible Goanetters will immediately understand why you deceptively left out this portion. To be fair to you, let me hasten to add that I am not sure if, in your current emotional state, you have managed to deceive yourself, in the first place, as well. But calm, sober and sensible people would have no problem understanding that the above rule, as stated, prohibits the posting of spam only on Goanet, not in any other forum. Goanet has no control over the posting of any of its publicly displayed content in any other private or public forum. Shri Jim Fernandes wrote: > > Cross posts means anything from GoaNet to the outside lists > and vice-versa. > This is another figment of your imagination. There is no such statement anywhere in Goanet Rules. The spam rule simply states that members should not post spam on Goanet, and that it treats cross posts posted on it as spam. It has no control over what is posted in other forums subsequently. Please read the rules again: http://www.goanet.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=9 Shri Jim Fernandes wrote: > > You are free to engage in spam, but I'll do what I have to > do to shut you down. > Shri Fernandes, you are wasting your hot air. Your persistent abuse will invariably lead to a public embarrassment for you. There is nothing you can do to me. Cheers, Santosh --- On Tue, 7/20/10, Jim Fernandes wrote: > Senhor Helekar, > > Some days ago, you claimed GoaNet has no rules whatesoever. > When I gave you the relevant link, you claimed
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
Since Gilbert has now gotten into this debate, while simultaneously denying that he has no intention of doing it, I would like to ask him the following questions to be able to provide appropriate answers because of my longstanding membership of several Goan internet forums: 1. To which Goan forums is he referring? 2. Why does he call these forums "over-the-top"? 3. What does he mean by registration of Goan forums? 4. To whom is he referring as the weed or weed(s) planted in these forum? 5. What criteria does he use to classify another human being as a weed? I have no idea why Gilbert thinks one requires courage to answer questions regarding any Goan forum, especially ones that might prove embarrassing to the questioner, in this case, Gilbert himself. But I am hoping that he has the courage to answer mine above. Cheers, Santosh --- On Wed, 7/21/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > I have no intention of getting in > this debate. Yet every forum has to be > registered under some-body's name. Under whose name are > the various > "over-the-top" goan forums registered? After all an > individual/ someone had the > courage to coin the name and register the forum on yahoo. > Please have the > courage to own-up to this. > > > Finally, moderated or not, the individual who created the > forums is responsible > for the forum they created and the weed that they planted > among some of us; > whose e-mail addresses have been hijacked. Or have the > courage to weed-out the > weeds. > > I am having my-fill of tax-free entertainment. Whom should > I send my > contribution to? Please keep it up. > > Regards, GL > > * * * Read Selma Carvalho's warmly-received book *Into the Diaspora Wilderness*, a journey through Goan life in Africa, the Gulf, England and North America ... gripping and well-told real-life stories. See http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ Buy in Goa via Broadway Book Centre, Panjim. Ph 9822488564. * * *
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
--- On Thu, 7/22/10, Jim Fernandes wrote: > > Since I am not able to make you understand simple logic, let me make >take > this to the REAL next level. > Shri Fernandes, Sorry to break this to you, but the fact that you are becoming increasingly desperate to take things to what you consider to be the "next" level clearly shows that logic is not your forte. There is no logic in anything you have written so far on Goanet, and in especially what you have written below. What you have written below is a tragic escalation of a personal hatred you have developed towards me because your inability to present a logical and sensible argument in support of your imaginary Goanet rules and your public statements. It is an abusive public threat against an individual who has done nothing wrong to you personally. I had merely cced to you and to another Goan Indian forum, my Goanet response to your and Nascimento Caldeira's public criticism of scientific advancement in India on Goanet. In it there was a clear representation that it was my response to your and his public posts. Here is that public response of mine in the very public Goanet and GX archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg63502.html http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GoenchimXapotam/message/28685 Please note that appended to my response are accurate attributions of whatever the two of you had written on Goanet, with these automatically attached phrases: "--- On Thu, 7/1/10, Nascy Caldeira wrote:" "--- On Thu, 1/7/10, Jim Fernandes wrote:" So your silly insinuation of copyright violation on my part is nothing but malicious slander, as is the case with delirious threats you are making in this latest post of yours appended below. Following my cc to you and to the other Goan mailing list in question, as soon as you asked not to be cced on "reply all" responses by me and to me by others, I promptly removed your email address from my subsequent responses. I told you so immediately after you started abusing others on that list with the most filthy and obnoxious language one has ever heard. Not satisfied with doing that you started attacking and abusing me personally in that forum and on Goanet. Now you have reached a state wherein you are overcome with anger and malice towards me. So I am telling you again. There is nothing you can do to me personally. Please feel free to cc my public posts to anybody you want. You will not be violating any copyright or breaking any Goanet rules. Please don't let your imagination tell you otherwise. And, since you forgot to include the email address of the President of the United States and the Prime Minister of India, I am giving their contact information below: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact http://pmindia.nic.in/write.htm Now, here are my specific responses to the additional nonsense you have written below: > > You are messing up with the wrong guy. You may be a neuro > scientist. In my line of work, we deal with complex > mathematical problems and convert them to computer programs > - Which makes me think like a chess player. I keep several > moves ready much before my opponent makes his. > >From what I have seen of you on Goanet, the only move you are capable of is >publicly abusing people who have done nothing wrong to you, and with whom you >merely have some disagreements. If this is what you did in a real chess >tournament you would not only be beaten like a drum by your opponent, but >kicked out of the tournament by the referees after your very first move. > > Now go back crying to your Bahama Mama and complain to her > that I whacked you yet one more time :) > You are once again publicly abusing a fellow Goanetter, and breaking the following Goanet rules: "Do not use foul, offensive or abusive language." "Do not engage in personal attacks." Please see: http://www.goanet.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=9 Lastly, Thanks for providing a link to the announcement that I have received a scientific award from the U.S. National Science Foundation. Cheers, Santosh P.S. BTW, please don't be shy to include your own supervisors and employer(s) on the cc list. You might receive a promotion to a chess grand master or a complex mathematical computer keyboard operator or something. --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Jim Fernandes wrote: > Senhor Helekar, > > Since I am not able to make you understand simple logic, > let me make take this to the REAL next level. > > You did the following: > 1. A response of mine to an ongoing GoaNet was forwarded by > you, to your own little private list and you included my > email ID in that list, thereby breaking GoaNet rule first. > > 2. You and members of that list engaged in what I call SPAM > - because at least some folks continued sending me emails, > when I categorically > requested to remove me from that list. > > 3. As Fred pointed out in one his emails, I still own > copyright of the ema
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
Adding to what is said below, I am writing this to let you know that another fellow Goanetter named Marshall Mendonza sent me an unsolicited email, adding me to his private cc list of friends and supporters, with the sole purpose of issuing a legal threat against me. He had no business threatening me in this manner, in the company of his community of his allies and political supporters. To provide you with proof of what I am saying here, I kindly request Marshall Mendonza to give me permission to post his email threatening me, drawing support from other members of his gang. Cheers, Santosh --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Marshall Mendonza wrote: > > Jim Fernandes: > The reason I am writing about this on GoaNet is because, a > fellow GoaNetter > named Santosh Helekar included me in this non-GoaNet > related group, when I > responded to a thread on GoaNet. He had no business of > cross-pollinating > debates and then include my email ID, in such external > groups, without my > permission. > > Comment: > In the good old days of the opium trade this was known as > 'being shanghaied' > :-) > > Regards, > > Marshall > * * * The book people are already talking about: Goanetter Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness*. Launch on July 25, 2010 at the UK Goan Festival [http://goafest.itpsworld.net] Goa launch next month. See http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ Buy at Broadway's, Panjim [Ph 9822488564] at Rs 295 in Goa. Overseas, postage extra. * * *
Re: [Goanet] Cross Polination
--- On Thu, 7/22/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > Please STOP YOUR SPAM MAIL. Which part to this do you not understand? > It is not clear why Gilbert is now shouting on Goanet, after having voluntarily insinuated himself in this thread while paradoxically denying his intention to do so. Why all of a sudden Goanet posts have become spam to him? The absurdity of it is compounded by the fact that he himself continues to generate a lot of this Goanet spam, as is clear from the present example. As far as the rest of his droppings below are concerned, I would like to say the following to him: Gilbert, You have publicly derided on Goanet some human beings in other Goan forums as weeds. These non-Goanetters have the right to know that you are abusing them behind their backs. So please take responsibility for your actions and answer my questions. I would like to know which Goan forums these are, and who these weeds are, that you are abusing on Goanet. I want to make sure your two posts in this thread appear in all those forums, and the people whom you refer to as the weeds get a chance to respond to your abuse. My answers to your questions are interspersed below: > > Why did you cross-post my post on this thread to one other forum and not >all > the others to which you belong? > I think you are disoriented. I did not cross-post your post to any forum. I initiated an original response to your post in this forum. I also cced my response to you and to some Goans, among whom are non-Goanetters, and others who do not receive emails from any Goan internet forum in their inbox, as far as I know. Here is the link of my response to your post in the Goanet archives: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-July/196370.html I will post my responses to your posts in all other Goan forums, as soon as you answer the following questions of mine regarding those forums: 1. To which Goan forums are you referring as being "over-the-top"? 2. Why do you call these forums "over-the-top"? 3. Whom are you abusing as the weed or weed(s) planted in those forums? 4. What criteria do you use to classify another human being as a weed? > >Please ONCE AGAIN, let us know which of these multiple forums did you put >>together or are registered in your name. > Once again, please tell me what you mean by put together and registered in my name. Let me reiterate for the third or fourth time that I have helped set up two Goan public forums - Goenchim Xapotam and Amchea Goencarancheo Dhirio. I have posted brief descriptions about them on Goanet recently. Here is the link to my post in the Goanet archives: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-July/195881.html Cheers, Santosh --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: >.. > Once again you are cross-posting to start another > ring-ma-roll. Unless this is > your method of informing others to stop being weeds. > > * * * The book people are already talking about: Goanetter Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness*. Launch on July 25, 2010 at the UK Goan Festival [http://goafest.itpsworld.net] Goa launch next month. See http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ Buy at Broadway's, Panjim [Ph 9822488564] at Rs 295 in Goa. Overseas, postage extra. * * *
Re: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development
--- On Fri, 7/23/10, U. G. Barad wrote: > > Under the circumstances, I wonder if there is any need for > the Vatican to continue with a programme of conversion that they are > undertaking. > Peaceful persuasion and conversion of minds is a freedom that every human being and every institution enjoys in a secular democracy. It is the basis of all education. Cheers, Santosh * * * IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S. Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai, Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. P&p extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
Re: [Goanet] No beef on menu during Commonwealth Games: Kalmadi
--- On Sat, 7/24/10, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > We have also seen another doctor, Santosh, take off > persistently on persons like Nascy or earlier on Fr Ivo, in > trying to prove them wrong. Differences in views can stem > from legitimate differences in perspective, so why rub it > in? Best perhaps just to state the point and leave it at > that. > All differences in views are not out of differences in perspective. Actually, most are due to ignorance and erroneous information. I try to tackle the latter kinds of views, and show why they are wrong, if they are, by providing facts and evidence that back me up. Indeed, the belief that differences in views are simply because of differences in perspective is a demonstrably false and especially dangerous notion in the internet age, with so much factual misinformation being spread by bloggers, activists and charlatans. I wish there were more journalists who recognized this fact. > > I don't agree with Nascy's style of expressing his views, > but he does seem to have some point here. > I am dismayed to learn that Admin Noronha only disagrees with Nascy's style, not his views. But I guess he has finally let the cat out of the bag. So does this mean that Noronha agrees with Nascy that Indian culture is inferior to all other cultures of the world? And that such a belief still means that Nascy is not judging Indian culture, but on the contrary, has great respect for it? Please correct me if I am wrong. And for once, state clearly what you believe and why. Regarding the beef ban, I believe it is wrong to impose any kind of bans of innocuous practices at public events, including idol and animal worship. But unfortunately all democratic countries resort to such madness, like the ban of specific types of clothing accessories in several European countries and bans against some movies in Australia. Of course, Nascy will have no courage or conviction to say anything against the latter bans. Cheers, Santosh * * * IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S. Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai, Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. P&p extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
--- On Fri, 7/23/10, Jim Fernandes wrote: > > Let me repeat this once again, I have set you in my cross-wires as the >next > target. You are messing with the wrong guy. > So what else is new? Instead of logic and reason, we have another instance of the same senseless verbal exercise of compensation for impotence from Shri Fernandes – another empty public threat and more hot air. We used to call them pokio fotaxio in Chimbel. But it is clear that he has been trying awfully hard without success to do the following: 1. Make me shut up, or shut me down, as he put it. 2. Get me to stop carrying on a discussion about issues that interest me in any Goan forum I want to. 3. Get me kicked out of Goanet. 4. Get me fired from my job. 5. Cause me to not be able to practice my profession. 6. Take the award I have received away from me, or make me give it back. And now he is talking about cross wires and targets. Apart from being an admission of his impotence to do anything to me so far, after all the vacuous bravado and threatening he has already engaged in on Goanet, I am not sure what he means by the specific words he has used, and how far this man is capable of going. So I would like to know from him the following: Shri Fernandes, What exactly are you threatening to do to me this time? I will wait for him to answer this question. But at this point one thing is clear from all this. There is nothing logical, rational or sensible about this man’s behavior that we are witnessing. To me another thing that is clear is that this is an exercise that will only end in disappointment for him, unless he relents. He will not be able to do any of the things I have listed above that he wants to do to me. He can rant and rave, huff and puff and blow as much steam as he has in him till the cows come home on Goanet. He is absolutely powerless as far as doing anything to me or anybody else. He may delude himself that he is the wrong guy to mess with. But the truth is that he is simply wrong. Now let me address the atrocious points and questions he has raised below: > > I disagreed with that assertion, which is when you decided to forward my > >response to your own little private list. The members of this list, then > >went on to SPAM me endlessly. > This is another of Fernandes’ bogus self-aggrandizing delusions. Fernandes appears to have been born yesterday. The truth is I have been discussing this issue with, and copying my responses to, people on the other Goan mailing list long before he entered this discussion on Goanet. In the thread in question my first response copied to that mailing list was to Adv. Radharao Gracias’ article posted on Goanet and GX by Floriano. The present response will also be copied there, regardless of what Fernandes or anybody else thinks. In a free democracy each individual has a fundamental right to express his/her opinion wherever he/she wants, and in however many forums he/she wants. Nobody can do anything about it. > > Now that you admit that you got dole from the US federal government >agency > (National Science Foundation) to run your little birdie >experiment, I'd like > to request you to return the grant back to the >agency. > The above statement reveals that Fernandes quite obviously does not value scientific advancement supported by highly competitive and coveted public funding obtained through sheer hard work and intellectual rigor. Had it not been for public funding of scientific research and institutions like the National Science Foundation, Fernandes would not have a computer or an internet or the “complex” mathematics that keeps him employed rather than spend his time threatening, bloviating and abusing others. > > If India is so great, what are you doing here in the US? > As I have already said in response to Adv. Gracias, the U.S. is the best place in the world to do the kind of research that I am doing. The fact that U.S. is greater than India in my field does not mean India is not great. I have already pointed out why India is greater than many European, North and South American and Asian countries, such as Portugal, Spain, Turkey, Australia, South Korea, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, South Korea, Indonesia, etc., in terms of Nobel Prizes awarded for work done in the same country. > > Why are you using my money (my taxpayer money) to further your knowledge? > Another emission from the depths of ignorance! I am using my taxpayer money, my skills, my mind and my blood and sweat to advance scientific knowledge for the benefit of all humankind, so one day when Fernandes and/or his descendants need the best treatment for some brain disorder they will have the chance to get it. > > Why don't you go back to India and beg with the Indian government for >the > grant? > Either Fernandes believes he did not beg with some employer to obtain the computer job he is doing, and his employer did not beg for a government/private contra
Re: [Goanet] No beef on menu during Commonwealth Games:
In the following Gilbert resorts to demonization, instead of sticking to a sober rational discussion. Here is his quote: QUOTE To the second issue on this thread, Santosh's terminology and practice as stated below is from one end of the spectrum. It is identical to the same approach from the other end of the spectrum as practiced by right-wing blowhards such as American TV commentators Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, and politicians like Newt Gingrich, Tom Delay etc etc. Come to think of it the SAME RATIONALIZATION was undertaken by the Inquisitional tribunal. UNQUOTE .Gilbert Lawrence I am not sure if anybody can detect anything rational or factual in the above statement. I certainly cannot. I give it as an example of how a difference in views is not because of difference in perspective. As in this case, it is mostly out of a lack of understanding of issues and facts, and I might add, in this specific case, out of a non-rational emotional impulse. For example, I can assure you that Gilbert will not be able to provide any facts to back up his claim that my following statement is a rationalization similar to that undertaken by the Inquisition. QUOTE All differences in views are not out of differences in perspective. Actually, most are due to ignorance and erroneous information. I try to tackle the latter kinds of views, and show why they are wrong, if they are, by providing facts and evidence that back me up. Indeed, the belief that differences in views are simply because of differences in perspective is a demonstrably false and especially dangerous notion in the internet age, with so much factual misinformation being spread by bloggers, activists and charlatans. I wish there were more journalists who recognized this fact. UNQUOTE .....Santosh Helekar To back up my own statement, let me list below some issues that I have tackled before as examples of differences in views being due to ignorance and misinformation, rather that difference in perspective: 1. AIDS is not caused by the HIV virus. 2. Cancer in general is incurable. 3. India has not contributed anything to civilization in the last 2000 years. 4. Homosexuality is a disorder. 5. Global warming is not taking place, and increase in green house gases is not due to human activity. 6. Humans have been created by a intelligent designer. 7. Brain science has provided evidence for a spiritual realm independent of the brain. 8. Vaccinations cause autism. 9. Alternative medicine is scientific. Gilbert will be unable to tell us why the above beliefs are not factually wrong, but simply a difference in perspective. That is why like most other contributions from him on sundry unrelated topics, but especially on the inquisition and Goan history, it is hard to make sense of or give credence to what he is saying. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 7/25/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > Before I get to the more important > aspect of this discussion (the take-off), I > would like to express my views on the topic of this > thread. I concur with > the Indian govt.'s position, which is reasoned and > well-balanced! > > When one arrives at a host's house, it is important for the > host to be > hospitable. It is also important for the guest to be > sensitive to the cultural > practices and norms of the host. The Indian govt is not > imposing vegetarianism > on the athletes - which could be extreme. There > will likely be all kinds of > 'white meat' (chicken, pheasant, pork) and 'red meat' > (lamb, mutton) and fish > available. If Goans were smart, there would be plenty > of chorrisaum, pork > vindaloos etc available. > > When individuals go abroad, it is more likely than not, > they sacrifice on the > absence of their exotic dishes. Goans coming to America > likely have to > write-off their menu-dishes like parra, other pickled fish > ani bombil. Similarly > people from other nationalities coming to America would > have to forgo their > exotic dishes made of items like snakes or lizard > or beetles. > > To the second issue on this thread, Santosh's terminology > and practice as stated > below is from one end of the spectrum. It is identical to > the same approach from > the other end of the spectrum as practiced by right-wing > blowhards such > as American TV commentators Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, > Bill O'Reilly, and > politicians like Newt Gingrich, Tom Delay etc etc. Come > to think of it the SAME > RATIONALIZATION was undertaken by the Inquisitional > tribunal. > > What should definitely not be accepted is "reversal of the > facts", which is not > uncommon today, making any basis of dialog impossible. > The secret of continuing > a dialog is to be able to disagree without being >
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
After Gilbert and Marshall, now another member with personal issues is discharging his puerile potshots at me again. Speaking of backing up, it appears that all the backing up is being done by the now defunct FCA Rodriquez and Company. Most of these characters who have never shown any ability to stand up on their own in a sober rational debate appear to have been recruited as sidekicks and hecklers in this thread. But FCA Rodriguez is in a delirium of his own. He babbles I escaped being "nuked" by his Nerf gun, and fantasizes that I quoted something from the Wikipedia. I would recommend to FCA that he hide behind the skirts of Waylusha and Isabel again. He is no match for Gilbert. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 7/25/10, Francis Rodrigues wrote: > > Real fun watching Goan cyberspace's No. 1 > Spam Hound (SH) squirm, with none of his > sneer-buddies backing up his false bluster! > > Even more hilarious - "neuro" Helekar who > spent the better part of a year spitting > out "authoritative" quotes at poor Fr. Ivo, > now feebly quotes the widely-discredited > Wikipedia as his sole authority on spam!! > > Forgetting the Can Spam Act...selective amnesia? > He barely escaped being nuked - just that I've > very little interest in these scientific pseuds! > > FR > * * * IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S. Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai, Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. P&p extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
Re: [Goanet] SH - stop this last word...story
--- On Sun, 7/25/10, Jose Da Gama Pais wrote: > > we all go six feet deep don't we..?? > I am sorry, but I am never going to go six feet deep. In addition to not knowing this fact, JDGP appears to be confused about how discussions end on Goanet. It is also unusual to see that he is enjoying a person threaten and abuse another person, and paradoxically, wants the "target" of the threats to stop defending himself, instead of the other way around. As for how discussions end on Goanet, and who gets the last word, it is not up to an individual Goanetter's enjoyment and bias. How it should happen is all in the rules, if they are properly enforced. The moderators get to end the discussion by asking the participants to post their final post. I am all for such a thing to happen in the thread in question. I hope JDGP who is new to this forum learns this quickly. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 7/25/10, Jose Da Gama Pais wrote: > > > It is with disgust that I write... that finally I am > enjoying someone like > JF who I do not even know personally. > not even SH. but this I am the last word episode > series must end. > If someone says enough..give him breathing space. > Do not always try to prove " I am the last word." > what we said in chimbel or in chambal matters for > nobody... > > we all go six feet deep don't we..?? > proving I am always the last word is sometimes a crab > mentality and a > shame.. > May better sense prevail. > > JDGP > * * * * * * IS YOURS one of the stories of Goans on board the S.S. Dwarka, or at the Strait of Hormuz, Basra or Bahrain, Dubai, Swindon, Mombasa, Poona or Rangoon? Selma Carvalho's new book *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* docks at many other ports. Get your copy from Broadways, Panjim [9822488564] Rs 295. P&p extra. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
Re: [Goanet] Cross Pollination
--- On Sun, 7/25/10, Jim Fernandes wrote: > > This is my last email to you on this thread - unless > circumstances change that would warrant me to write back > again. > Shri Fernandes, Sorry to see you take your marbles and go home. It looks like you could not achieve what you boasted about on Goanet for so long. It must be really embarrassing for you. Even in your last post all you could manage was more empty threats, fake boasts and lame insults violating two important anti-abuse rules of Goanet. Your circumstances have certainly changed on Goanet. It is hard for any sensible person to take you seriously from now on. So as I had predicted, all this ended in a shameful disappointment for you. Once again, I am sorry about that. Cheers, Santosh P.S. BTW, two more things: 1. I had asked you to return the money that both the U.S. government and the Indian government has spent on your education. Please tell me where you were educated, so I can calculate how much it is. You also need to return the government contract money that your employer has received to pay your wages. 2. Since you know nothing about medical research, let alone my own, let me inform you that if you come to our hospital, I will tell you and show you exactly how my research will benefit you and the younger generations that will carry your genes. --- On Sun, 7/25/10, Jim Fernandes wrote: > > This is my last email to you on this thread - unless > circumstances change that would warrant me to write back > again. > > I haven't yet exercized the full potential of my > retaliation. I am definitely not going to reveal to you what > I got in my arsenal. In military terms - its called 'element > of surprise'. I reserve the right to retain all options on > the table and I shall use my options at the time of my > choosing. For now, I shall keep you guessing :) > > There is zero chance of any benefit senhor Helekar's > research is going to benefit any humans. The only cure that > could come from the non-sense that he is talking about, is > either with the use of stem cells or by altering human DNA > with the use of a virus that could be used to 'fix' the > genetic damage to the concerned individual. So please go > ahead and return my tax money back to the US federal > agency. > > Because I requested him to return the 'dole' back to the US > government, senhor Helekar wants me to return the tax payer > money I might have gotten for my education in India. Does > this punk have any idea, how much money I have paid to the > Indian government in taxes? I have given much more to India > than what I got. > > Just this year alone, I paid some close to Rs 1,000,000 > (some US $20,000) in customs duty for some stuff that I sent > to Goa. I could have easily bribed some "Babu" - far less > money - at the Indian customs and sneaked my stuff in. But I > paid the money to the Indian government via actual bank > transfers. India should be proud of an OCI like me. Don't > you agree :) . > > Finally, this punk admits that the US is the number one > country in the world for technological advancement. He also > admits (though half heartedly) that India is no match for > the US. > > How cool is that for this hypocrite? > > Jim F > New York > * * * UK STOCKS EXHAUSTED! After a community-supported launch at Croydon, Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* is available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. Ask a friend to pick up a copy. Details of the book http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development (Final response to U. G. Barad)
Most of the post quoted below and the earlier one in this thread (http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-July/196539.html) appear to have been lifted verbatim from some websites. They have been copied and pasted without naming the sources, and without placing them in quotes. I request the author to avoid this in the future. Cheers, Santosh P.S. Also, please note that most scientists claim not to know anything about the supernatural. Most doctors claim to know whatever their religion teaches them. But I have never met a doctor or a scientist who claims to know everything. --- On Tue, 7/27/10, pinheiro wrote: >...There nothing called total holy or pure in > spiritual life but one can one strive to attain that > holiness and purity through lot of mediation and > scarify. Some doctors and scientists think they know > everything and so they have answers to everything. I > pity them, for life on earth is journey and you learn > something new till you die. > > There are 10 books for the Rigveda. Ten mandalams. From > first to nine mandalams, in several places it is clearly > said who is the real God, who is man and why should man > worship the God and how should he worship him. In the tenth > mandalam, besides this Lord Almighty, there is the mention > about a man. The first born and only son of the God. His > name is Prajapathy (Praja means man and Pathy means > saviour), the son of the God comes to this world at the > appropriate time. U. G. Barad, you yourself had quoted > Rig Veda (Vedic literature) in one of your response > yet you say you do not have Vedic literature. Kindly read > below text (they are written in Sanskrit not Greek) > you will know what I tried to explain you in previous > mail. > > > > Rigveda X:90:2 > > पुरुष एवेदं सर्वं यद > भूतं यच्च भव्यम | > उताम्र्तत्वस्येशानो > यदन्नेनातिरोहति || > Purusha evedam sarvam > Yadbhutham yachabhavyam > Uthaamruthathwasya esaana > Ya daannenathirohathi > > > > This man, the first born of the God is all that was, all > that is and all that has to be. And he comes to this world > to give recompense to everybody as per his deeds. > > > > In the in the Holy Bible, book of Revelation, St.John 1:8 > 'The Lord God, who is, who was and who is to come'. In > John's Gospel 8th chapter 51st verse Jesus says: I am > telling you the truth. Whoever obeys my teaching will never > die. > > * * * UK STOCKS EXHAUSTED! After a community-supported launch at Croydon, Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* is available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. Ask a friend to pick up a copy. Details of the book http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Celibacy Today
--- On Wed, 7/28/10, Ivo wrote: > > There is free will, > it is the outcome of several factors. See the website: > http://www.narth.com/docs/hom101.html > "Homosexuality 101: > What Every Therapist, Parent, And Homosexual Should Know > Julie Harren, Ph.D., LMFT > The above website propagates unscientific nonsense. Please do not trust anything it says. Here is a more responsible and reliable article on sexual orientation: http://www.bri.ucla.edu/bri_weekly/news_050812.asp Cheers, Santosh * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
At variance with what is posted below, I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was a polite and respectful discussion between the lady representative of the extremist Hindu organization, Dr. Jose Pereira and the organizers of the exhibition. The only provocation for confrontation that I saw was from Admin Noronha. It is true that there can be multiple interpretations for scriptures, and literary texts, which add to its cultural value, but unfortunately religious folk insist on their own unique interpretation. This is true for all religions. The important question therefore in a secular democracy is how to deal with this issue. I for one would vote to protect artistic and academic freedom above everything else. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 7/31/10, augusto pinto wrote: > > He said that they had in their newspaper, the Marathi, > Sanatan > Prabhat, provocatively provided the phone numbers of the > XCHR and > suggested that their readers should ring up this number and > threaten > them. > > The intruders who could be seen to be becoming > increasingly > uncomfortable by the gandhigiri displayed by the > organisers, as well > as the fact that they were being shown up to be an > irrational trouble > fomenting group, then beat a hasty retreat. > * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development
There is literally nothing in common between what Bosco and Venantius have written, and what Gilbert has written in two posts now. These authors are not on the same planet, leave alone being on the same wavelength. The problem is so simple, and yet so important, that it is addressed in elementary school nowadays in most parts of the world. I know this from my own experience as a parent. The question we are faced with is: It it ethical and legal to copy and paste material verbatim from the internet without using quotation marks, and without providing a link to the website from where it is taken? The answer is clearly no. There is no excuse to misrepresenting other people's writings as one's own, even if done unintentionally. One cannot afford to be so intellectually lazy. There is absolutely no downside to providing proper links and attributions to quoted text. It is the person who is not doing so that is abusing his privilege, not the other way round. Cheers, Santosh P.S. - Since some spurious confusion regarding cancer has been injected below, here is its clear technical definition from the U.S. National Cancer Institute: QUOTE cancer (KAN-ser) A term for diseases in which abnormal cells divide without control and can invade nearby tissues. Cancer cells can also spread to other parts of the body through the blood and lymph systems. There are several main types of cancer. Carcinoma is a cancer that begins in the skin or in tissues that line or cover internal organs. Sarcoma is a cancer that begins in bone, cartilage, fat, muscle, blood vessels, or other connective or supportive tissue. Leukemia is a cancer that starts in blood-forming tissue such as the bone marrow, and causes large numbers of abnormal blood cells to be produced and enter the blood. Lymphoma and multiple myeloma are cancers that begin in the cells of the immune system. Central nervous system cancers are cancers that begin in the tissues of the brain and spinal cord. Also called malignancy. UNQUOTE Please see: http://www.cancer.gov/dictionary/?CdrID=45333 --- On Sat, 7/31/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > Hi Bosco and Venatius, > > Thanks for your response. We are all on the same > wavelength. "Great Minds Think > Alike" > > As we and others can see, we are coming from similar and > yet subtly different > perspectives. My post was to encourage Goans to write on > goanet; and for us > to make it easy for them to do so. This involves not > intimidating them or > creating any "glass barriers." Writing something, first > involves 'READING and > DIGESTING the subject at hand'. Then there is courage to > and developing the art > of writing. So clearly veteran writers and goanetters > should give some slack to > novice writers and members. > > The prerequisites of "reading and digesting the subject at > hand" contradicts > regurgitating and plagiarizing what someone else has > already done. Certainly > web-links, sources and references should be provided when > appropriate. Yet on > goanet and elsewhere, this has taken an abuse of its own. > Tech-savvy and > techno-equipped individuals are posting links on topics > where, they have "NOT > READ and DIGESTED the subject at hand." So now we have > 'jack of all trades' > masquerading within hours as "masters of all trades." > > Sometimes the above is done inadvertently (which is > excusable) and sometimes it > is done repeatedly and blatantly (leading to repeated > endless arguments). Lets > look at the endless posts about "Cancer is incurable". If > either of the two > opponents had "read and digested" the reams of web-links > they posted, the first > question they would ask: "For which situation (type of > cancer and part of the > world) does this statement apply?" And this is not even > getting into > technicalities like what is the definition of cure in > cancer, etc.. > * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] UID for Goan Residents
One of the things that reason and science teach us is that generalization of the type quoted below is invariably wrong. If objectivity was a myth airplanes would not have flown. We would not have landed on the moon. And there would not have been an internet. Kevin Dunbar himself would not have been able to draw meaningful objective conclusions from his research. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 7/31/10, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > This is interesting, I don't know if you'll agree: "The > reason we're > so resistant to anomalous information - the real reason > researchers > automatically assume that every unexpected result is a > stupid mistake > - is rooted in the way the human brain works. Over the past > few > decades, psychologists have dismantled the myth of > objectivity. The > fact is, we edit our reality, searching for evidence that > confirms > what we already believe. Although we pretend we're > empiricists - our > views dictated by nothing but the facts - we're actually > blinkered > when it comes to information that contradicts our theories. > The > problem with science, then, isn't that most experiments > fail - it's > that most failures are ignored." > http://www.devcomments.com/Interpreting-facts-as-failure-the-neuroscience-of-science-i16694.htm > > Frederick Noronha > +91-9822122436 > +91-832-2409490 > > > > On 31 July 2010 17:53, J. Colaco < jc> > wrote: > > > > Dear FN, > > > > Do advise IF you find the article at > > http://www.colaco.net/1/TGFCommunalRiots.htm reasonable > or > > unreasonable; and if unreasonable - why you find it > so? > > > > Unless you are a politician or an aspiring one, your > "attempt to > > divide" statement is as daft as the "colaco types" one > which has > > remained uncorrected for several years. > > > > The next thing one might hear from you is that I am > (or Rajan is) > > attempting to divide the previously Portuguese Goa > into Old conquests > > and New conquests. > > > > I trust that you will acknowledge that 'facts' do not > need > > re-invention, and that good neighbourly relationships > and tolerance > > develop with the benefit of time. > > > > But then perhaps, you will not. > > > > > Frederick Noronha wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm talking specifically about the attempt to divide > Muslims into good > > "Goan Muslims" and bad "migrant Muslims". No prize for > guessing where > > this ingenuous argument comes from! > > > > You can find examples of this here: > > > > http://www.goanews.com/news_disp.php?newsid=128 > > http://www.colaco.net/1/TGFCommunalRiots.htm > > http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg09023.html > > > > and many other places since this hybrid of > communalism-regional > > chauvinism (specifically focussed on the Muslim) was > first floated > > into the market. FN > > * * * > > Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, > Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, > Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped > Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora > Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim > [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets > sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ > > * * * > * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development
The post quoted below reveals a confusion between providing references, as in technical or scholarly writing, and the simple requirement to enclose copied and pasted material from the internet in quotes, with a link to the website from where it is lifted. Those who place pilfered text verbatim in their posts, creating the impression that it is their own, are taking a huge risk. No amount of miscued excuses like those in the post below will protect them. Cheers, Santosh --- On Fri, 7/30/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > >Hi Venatius, > >I read your recent interesting post on this thread (I think) requesting >references. Your's has been a POLITE and WELL >ARTICULATED article >making >the case to provide references in posts. So >I extend you the >courtesy of a >polite response in requesting you to consider the following >points. > > >1. Writing a response to a post on goanet (or in a blog) is like writing >a >letter-to-the-editor. By-and-large, do you see any references in >letters >to-the-editor published in Goan, Indian or international >newspapers and >magazines? > * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development
The post quoted below reveals a confusion between providing references, as in technical or scholarly writing, and the simple requirement to enclose copied and pasted material from the internet in quotes, with a link to the website from where it is lifted. Those who place pilfered text verbatim in their posts, creating the impression that it is their own, are taking a huge risk. No amount of miscued excuses like those in the post below will protect them. Cheers, Santosh --- On Fri, 7/30/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > >Hi Venatius, > >I read your recent interesting post on this thread (I think) requesting >references. Your's has been a POLITE and WELL >ARTICULATED article >making >the case to provide references in posts. So >I extend you the >courtesy of a >polite response in requesting you to consider the following >points. > > >1. Writing a response to a post on goanet (or in a blog) is like writing >a >letter-to-the-editor. By-and-large, do you see any references in >letters >to-the-editor published in Goan, Indian or international >newspapers and >magazines? > * * * Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development
This outburst from Gilbert is understandable considering the obvious fact that what he had written had nothing to do with the issue at hand, as referred to by Bosco and Venantius. Please note the following response by Bosco, for instance, to the irrelevant post by Gilbert in this thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg45880.html Quite predictably, Gilbert is now misinforming you that I don't know anything about cancer, and that I haven't read or don't understand what I read on this topic on the internet and elsewhere. Nobody should be fooled by this, and by his inappropriate use of the word "abuse" to describe those who diligently provide weblinks and references for the information they provide, especially if it is a verbatim quote from someone else. It should also be clear to most sensible people that because of my formal medical education I should know more about cancer than Gilbert does about Goan history, history of the inquisition, history of Tipu Sultan, and world economics, all topics on which he has pontificated on Goanet without having any formal background in these fields, and without providing any sources for his baseless speculations, even when repeatedly asked to do so. BTW, I apologize for inadvertently leaving out the definition of cure, as provided by the U.S. National Cancer Institute (NCI), from my earlier attempt to clarify the confusion injected by Gilbert about cancer. Here it is now at the same NCI website I had provided in my earlier post: QUOTE cure To heal or restore health; a treatment to restore health. UNQUOTE http://www.cancer.gov/dictionary/?CdrID=318813 I had also provided earlier on Goanet a more quantitative definition of cancer cure based on my critical reading, understanding and study of the latest original papers on cancer epidemiology by international experts such as Herman Brenner. Please see the following link for that earlier post of mine: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg51546.html >From past experience I know that it is unlikely that Gilbert would be able to >add anything substantive to this discussion. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 8/1/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > At first I thought Santosh was trying to misrepresent and > or high-jack the > subject, which he and few others often do. Now it is > confirmed, what I and > likely many suspected. It is clear to all that he does not > understand the topic > being discussed. This is not the first time this has been > pointed out. And > Santosh is not the exception to this malady. > > That is what happens with web-surfing and abuse of merely > providing web-links. > A great example of "jack of all trades" masquerading as a > "master." In Konkani > it is called "petoita murre." > > This is my last post on this thread. > Regards, GL > > * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development
--- On Sun, 8/1/10, Santosh Helekar wrote: > >Please note the following response by Bosco, for instance, to the >irrelevant >post by Gilbert in the thread in question: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg45880.html > The above link is not the correct one, although it is an accurate description of the problem with Gilbert's posts on Goanet. The correct link to Bosco's post that I was referring to, is: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-July/196781.html Cheers, Santosh * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
I do not agree with Rajan that Admin Noronha is anti-Hindu. But it is clear to me that he is not a secular pluralist either. The grounds for this belief are quite obvious. Admin Noronha is driven by an entrenched ideology. As with all ideologies, it has outlived its purpose, if it had any purpose in the first place. Like its counterparts, it pigeonholes everybody who does not swallow its precepts hook, line and sinker, into a monolithic camp opposed to all that is good and dandy in this world. That is why he, like others with similar afflictions, uses the usual methods of negative political campaigning against people who are different in any respect from him - the methods of guilt by association, smear, innuendo, etc. The other unfortunate casualty of this unreasonable outlook, beholden to a political ideology rather than to a rational approach towards the day-to-day transactions of regular folk, is an inability to recognize their habitual lapses in fairness and even-handedness. The confrontational attitude that he showed in that video amidst a sober and sensible discussion between two parties should give you some insight into what I am talking about. A person who is secular is first and foremost dispassionate and considerate. She proceeds with no presumptions, or the presumption of innocence, in her every day interactions. She recognizes that even good and decent people can be misguided, and indeed, quite often are. I am hoping to see a glimpse of this someday in Admin Noronha and other like-minded folk who like to think of themselves as fighting for the secular cause. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 8/1/10, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > Glad to note that the skin-deep > secularists are now exposing > themselves on Goanet. > > Earlier, the argument used to be "my bigots are better than > your > bigots". Now it seems to have shifted to: "if you challenge > the logic > of my bigots, I will target you instead". All while > claiming the > "secular" space! FN > > > On 1 August 2010 05:29, Rajan P. Parrikar > wrote: > > > > I just took a look at the two posted videos. The > only piece of hostility there, > > as Dr. Helekar has noted, came from the anti-Hindu, > communal, muckraking, > > coward-of-a-smear-merchant Frederick Noronha. To > the likes of Admin Noronha > > and his fellow cohorts like the Commie operator > Gadgil, only Hindu malfeasance > > is visible, and they will lie through their pustulated > behinds at every > > opportunity > > provided by the fringe Hindu rightwing to portray the > Hindu Right as the > > biggest > > danger since Nazi Germany. * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
--- On Sun, 8/1/10, Rajan P. Parrikar wrote: > > Criticism of Hinduism, Hindus, Hindu Right, Hindu Anything in itself >does > not make anyone anti-Hindu. To cite an extreme case, I have never >thought > of Nascy as anti-Hindu. Semi-literate clown, yes. Anti-Hindu, >no. > I am not sure what Nascimento is, and I don't really care. I only like the entertainment he provides in the Goanet circus, and am always looking forward to goading him into lowering the semi-literacy level of this forum further with each post. > > The "anti-Hindu" fellow harbours a deep resentment towards any assertion >of > Hindu identity or any attempt at Hindu organization, whether it is >political > or social. Anytime he sees something which in his mind >demonstrates Hindu > strength his instinct is to smear it, or fabricate >stories to tar the > individual or group. > I see nothing wrong in being opposed to politicization of religion, or to an assertion of a political (not social) identity based on religion, as long as it is even-handed, i.e. applied to all religions equally, if one claims to uphold the Indian secular outlook. The latter is where in my estimation Admin Noronha and others like him fall short, even after making allowance for the fact that minorities should receive special protection in a democracy driven by the majority vote. And yes, there is no reflection, self-reflection and weighing on a case by case basis. There is always the same boiler-plate narrative that is applied to everything, and everybody who has a difference of opinion, about a political issue or event. Cheers, Santosh * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] All Religions for Human Integral Development
Five observations regarding Gilbert's latest material are: 1. He failed to keep his promise not to write again in this thread. 2. He continues to engage in personal attacks against me violating Goanet rules, while boorishly claiming that I did so. 3. He has some silly problems with the definition of cure provided by the U. S. National Cancer Institute, and blames me for them. Perhaps, he also believes that all the cancer experts of the world are not as smart and knowledgeable as him. 4. He believes haughtily and foolishly that Goanetters love what he writes, that he speaks on behalf of all Goanetters, and that his garbled writings on Goanet on the inquisition, Tipu Sultan, etc. are all his original discoveries. 5. As I had predicted, he was unable to add anything substantive, or perhaps, even understand, the quantitative definition of cancer cure that I had provided through a link to an earlier post of mine. Here is that definition again: QUOTE From the scientific standpoint, a complete cure is deemed to have occurred if a cancer patient has: a) Survived after treatment without cancer recurrence for a period that exceeds the plateau phase (the point at which the falling survival curve becomes parallel to the x axis) of his/her cancer’s survival curve, and b) Has achieved a normal life free of cancer, wherein the probabilities of dying from it, as well as of attaining the average life expectancy, are the same as that of any normal person who has never had cancer. UNQUOTE ..Santosh Helekar Please see: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg51546.html Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 8/1/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > Responding to my last post on Goanet, > the following was spammed to me and few > Goans and some Goan websites. Likely a Goanet > violation. Obviously some 'do not > get it' about NOT spamming. Despite my earlier statement > about ending this > thread, it is important to spare Goans on Goanet and > elsewhere the > mis-information thrust on them about cancer. So > moderators and goanetters, > please excuse me for tapping into your patience. > > After recognizing his mistake about the 'definition of > cancer cure', Santosh did > what he does best. Back to web-surfing and the usual "cut > and paste" with the > web-link. I do not know what he would do without the web. > > Yet, he has FAILED AGAIN to "read, understand and digest" > the topic being > discussed and what he reads. > > Based on definition he provides below (with QUOTES and > web-link reference); if > a person with cancer is treated and three months later has > "restore health" (far > from scientific term) and is back to work, that means > he/she is cured of their > cancer. And the therapy for "treatment to restore health" > three months later is > considered curative therapy. > > > This definition DOES NOT even INCLUDE: "no sign of cancer" > after testing etc. > BTW, even with 'no sign of cancer', it does not mean the > patient is cured. It > may be called 'remission'. > > Santosh in his reply below is showing the shortcomings of > references without > understanding the material he reads. Thanks Santosh for > the "show and tell". > Venantius and others please note how people hide behind a > reference, while > sounding intellectual. Further, after another chance, > what we see is ignorance > (of medical knowledge) and foolishness. If I showed his > following "definition > of cure" of cancer to anyone, they would question > Santosh's medical knowledge > (training) and analytic ability (as a research scientist). > > Now I can understand why Santosh does not write anything > original on Goanet. > And confines himself to web-surfing, and demonizing others > both in what they > write and personally; while presenting himself as > intellectual. That is of > course a poor strategy. Insulting others is an > appalling substitute for > knowledge for a researcher and a pathetic display of lack > of decency and class. > I am given to understand that all this is saved in the > archives of President > Pandurang library - a great resource for future generations > of Goans. > > My sincere advice to Santosh: "Quit while you > are ahead". Goanetters have had > enough 'pirachit' for the weekend. I am embarrassed to > analyze your writings. > And surely many others, with whom you have crossed swords, > feel the same. How > can we save you from yourself? Most goanetters (me > inlcuded) avoid dialog with > you; despite you thrusting yourself on us via Goanet or > spam mail. > Regards, GL &g
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
I would request Sam Furtado to retract the statements he has made against me below. I have never made the assertion that he has falsely quoted as my own. My position on Dr. Jose Pereira's paintings is exactly what it has been all along with other artistic and academic freedom issues such as those related to Hussain, Dan Brown and Da Vinci code movie, Salman Rushdie and Subodh Kerkar. I am unconditionally in favor of artistic and academic freedom, and am opposed to anybody who uses violence and intimidation to stifle it. Groups such as Hindu Janajagruti Samiti, inappropriately named Catholic Secular Forum, Islamic Defense Council, etc stand for everything that I am against. But I have no problem as long as they express their protests in a peaceful manner, as the lady in the video was doing. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 8/2/10, Sam Furtado wrote: > > The Biggest misnomer of the day about the Goans is by Dr. > Santosh Helekar's, email, which relates to the brewed > contraversy on Dr. Jose Pereira's Paintings', and which I > quote below: > > Quote: > > "The biggest danger to communal peace in Goa is this breed > of dregs, not the Sanatan Saunstha. ?You can take this > to the bank". > > Unquote: > > It is people like Dr. Santosh Helekar who are communal > biased and cannot mesticate the facts of life or reality. > > Every person in his own right have freedom of > expression; Be it in writing, painting or voicing, > irrespective of the nature of the subject. Everthing likes > in the Eyes of the Beholder. So what despicability or > deplorability or disgraceful is there in Dr. Jose's > Paintings? I think he needs to visit a Shrink. > > To sum up in short it is people like Dr. Santosh Helekar, > who are communal frenzy and these are the people need to be > watched closely or else they will be detrimental to the > society and the peace loving Goans. > > Sam * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
Prof. Augusto Pinto is nicely demonstrating the cheap political campaigning tactics that I had mentioned in this thread - tactics of smearing, linking with devilish political opponents, terrorist organizations, murderers, etc. The following quote of the professor has everything he accuses me of and more - twisting of words, spin-doctoring, verbal abuse and insults: QUOTE I am sure the Sanatanists will be very grateful to Santosh Helekar for diverting attention away from this terrorist organisation and the irony of it is that he has accused FN - who was instrumental in pointing out to their perfidy - of being the aggressor!! UNQUOTE .Prof. Augusto Pinto An utter lack of self-reflection is also evident. This is the malady that afflicts people who are driven by an unbalanced view of the world centered around recycled ideologies and visceral identities, rather than independent rational thought. Do you think these people will ever succeed in doing anything constructive for the secular cause? I don't. They will continue fighting their petty political battles, cherry picking which murderers to shill for and which murderers to attack based on their prearranged ideological agenda. The same holds true for whom they abuse in public forums. Do you think Prof. Augusto or Admin Noronha will confront, speak out against or abuse AF for the following post? QUOTE when I first read of Mr. Pereira, the supposed intellect-turned-painter-turned-grumpy old man, i opined that he was just a self-taught wannabe great. Now, I read that he has painted Christ in the nude ( and the Hindus get angry that he has painted their Deities in the nude, too), I wonder where and how did he ever imagine where in the Bible there was any reference to a naked Christ. This man claims he has done research on nude Deities before formulating his drawings. I say he just wants to rile up the locals, from his self-exiled foreign perch. Shame on Mr. Pereira! UNQUOTE .AF Please see: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-August/196900.html I don't. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 8/2/10, augusto pinto wrote: > > I would like to congratulate Dr. Santosh Helekar on his > ability to > twist arguments, ideas and words in such a way that others > are put > completely on the defensive. This spin-doctor-ability is an > absolute > marvel to me. > > Look at the issue at hand. The subject is: Re: Jose Pereira > at XCHR: A > Recounting of Events. I had originally raised this issue to > point to > the perfidy of the Hindu Janajagriti Samiti who had through > an allied > organisation - the Sanatan Saunstha - put out hate > propaganda through > its newspaper the Sanatan Prabhat, and had published the > phone numbers > of the Xavier Centre for Historical Research which led to a > spate of > hate calls to the XCHR, wherein the 79 year old Dr. Jose > Pereira was > even threatened of being decapitated. > > At the XCHR talk by Dr. Jose Pereira, where the > activists of the HJS > intruded to lecture him about their "hurt sentiments" > Frederick > Noronha pointed out to them their perfidious act of > publishing the > phone numbers of the XCHR and suggesting to their misguided > readers > that they make threatening phone calls to the XCHR. > > Santosh Helekar used this point to hijack the subject > of Jose Pereira > at XCHR: A Recounting of Events - to turn it into a > diatribe against > FN. The fact that an old scholar, artist and philosopher > has been > issued death threats has been drowned out in the > meanwhile. > > Remember, the Sanatan Saunstha is the organisation which > wanted to > explode bombs on Narkasur day last year. The fact that they > failed and > killed two of their own members is a different issue. > > I am sure the Sanatanists will be very grateful to Santosh > Helekar for > diverting attention away from this terrorist organisation > and the > irony of it is that he has accused FN - who was > instrumental in > pointing out to their perfidy - of being the aggressor!! > > I wish to congratulate Santosh Helekar on his excellent > rhetorical skills. > > -- * * * In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
Prof. Augusto Pinto is on a crusade to attack and smear me over something I have not done. But please note that he is afraid to name and speak out against the following people: 1. The actual perpetrators of the bomb blasts in Margao, belonging to the Sanatan Saunstha. 2. The politicians who have shilled for them, and caused harm to Goa in other ways. 3. The Maoists who are responsible for thousands of murders over the last decade in India. 4. Rajan Parrikar who stated the following referring to people like Admin Noronha: "The biggest danger to communal peace in Goa is this breed of dregs, not the Sanatan Saunstha. You can take this to the bank." Rajan Parrikar Please see - http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-July/196815.html 5. AF who directly attacked Dr. Jose Pereira as follows: QUOTE when I first read of Mr. Pereira, the supposed intellect-turned-painter-turned-grumpy old man, i opined that he was just a self-taught wannabe great. Now, I read that he has painted Christ in the nude ( and the Hindus get angry that he has painted their Deities in the nude, too), I wonder where and how did he ever imagine where in the Bible there was any reference to a naked Christ. This man claims he has done research on nude Deities before formulating his drawings. I say he just wants to rile up the locals, from his self-exiled foreign perch. Shame on Mr. Pereira! UNQUOTE .AF Please see: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-August/196900.html This should tell you why Prof. Augusto's crusade is a facade meant only to gain cheap sympathy from a few like-minded onlookers on Goanet. Item number 5 above should be especially instructive in this regard. Do you think Prof. Augusto Pinto cares about Dr. Jose Pereira's reputation? I don't think so. This campaign, like all ideological campaigns, is driven more by hate than love. Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 8/2/10, augusto pinto wrote: > > Dr Santosh Helekar continues his > efforts to divert attention from the > death threats which the Sanathan Saunstha and the Hindu > Janajagriti > Samiti have issued against the Parkinson's disease > afflicted 79 year > old artist, scholar and philosopher, by making a big issue > about the > email that is reproduced below. > > For Santosh Helelar it is more important to focus on the > hurt that a > certain Sami Furtado has caused to his fragile ego, than to > do > anything to defend an aged scholar, philosopher, and artist > like Dr. > Jose Pereira. > > Once more Santosh, I congratulate you on the felicity of > your rhetorical skills. > * * * How were the 1950s, East African Goans and British Overseas Citizenship linked? Which Kenyan-Goan was one of the world fastest sprinters in the 1960s? What did the 1878 London-Lisbon treaty mean to Goa? Find your answers in Selma Carvalho's *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Buy from Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] HINDU AMERICA and POOR CHRISTIANS.........
--- On Tue, 8/3/10, M D wrote: > >In America there are no anti-conversion laws and there are no christian >fundamentalist who will go around bashing hindu missionaries or >vandalizing >hindu temples. Here in India there are anti-conversion laws >and the hindu fundamentalist go around bashing christian missionaries and >vandalizing churches. > There are no anti-conversion laws, but there are plenty of instances of vandalism of non-Christian places of worship such as temples and mosques, as well as strong opposition to building of these structures in certain places in America. The American Christian right wing is very powerful and wealthy. Having lived amicably among them in one of their political strongholds, I would contend that they are much stronger and more organized than in India. Cheers, Santosh * * * How were the 1950s, East African Goans and British Overseas Citizenship linked? Which Kenyan-Goan was one of the world fastest sprinters in the 1960s? What did the 1878 London-Lisbon treaty mean to Goa? Find your answers in Selma Carvalho's *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Buy from Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Fwd: Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
Mr. Furtado, Please read these simple English words of mine slowly and carefully. I am writing them again. I do not want your apology. Cheers, Santosh P.S. BTW, what you are saying is not clear and transparent. It is muddled and murky. --- On Mon, 8/2/10, Sam Furtado wrote: > > Dr. Helekar, > > My mail to you is clear and transparent. Everything > is clear crystal for > all to see. So why be so apprehensive, emphatic and > specific. I feel you > are stubborn and incorrigible. It's just absurd from my > point of view to > appologize to you for the second time and for no second > reason whatsoever. > > So, you please don't worry, you' re reputation and dignity > is fully intact > and safe, only follow good principles and rules of life, > then all things > will be good. > Sam > > On 8/3/10, Santosh Helekar > wrote: > > > > Mr. Furtado, > > > > I do not want your apology. I simply request you to do > the honorable thing, > > and say on Goanet that you were wrong to accuse me, > and to tell me to go to > > a shrink. You may not care about your reputation in > the public domain, but I > > do. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Santosh > > * * * Was life in the *kudds* glamourised? Who said, "It appears that the Goanese (sic) are a roving people, prepared to go to any part of the world for well-paid employment"? How did Goans find their first toehold in the Gulf? Find your answers in Selma Carvalho's *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Buy from Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] OBAMA FEAR's HINDU FUNDAMENTALIST's..
--- On Fri, 8/6/10, M D wrote: > >Inspite of many Christian groups in America writing to Obama about the >random >attacks on Christians and vandalization of churches in India Obama >has so far >not spoken out against the Hindu fundamentalist’s or maybe >Obama is not a >Christian. > Obama is not a Christian. It is well known that he is an Iranian Arab muslim from Kenya. Cheers, Santosh * * * Was life in the *kudds* glamourised? Who said, "It appears that the Goanese (sic) are a roving people, prepared to go to any part of the world for well-paid employment"? How did Goans find their first toehold in the Gulf? Find your answers in Selma Carvalho's *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Buy from Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] OBAMA FEAR's HINDU FUNDAMENTALIST's..
--- On Sat, 8/7/10, CORNEL DACOSTA wrote: > > Hi Santosh > Obama has always claimed that he is a Christian. Do you > have evidence that > undermines his claim? Just curious that's all! > Cornel > Cornel, There are people who are trying to find evidence that Obama is a Manchurian candidate and an anti-Christ. I will let you know as soon as they find it. There is also a good chance that he is a North Korean Hindu Arab communist. Cheers, Santosh * * * Was life in the *kudds* glamourised? Who said, "It appears that the Goanese (sic) are a roving people, prepared to go to any part of the world for well-paid employment"? How did Goans find their first toehold in the Gulf? Find your answers in Selma Carvalho's *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Buy from Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] Some anti-plagiarism software
--- On Fri, 8/6/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > >I am sure most on the spam list were victims like me; but my special >empathy >goes to the Goanet moderators on the spam list. > Gilbert appears to be trying to insult other Goans and members of other Goan mailing lists once again. He was asked to do the honorable thing and retract his falsehoods when he did this repeatedly the last time, and lied about one of these mailing lists on Goanet in the following post: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-July/196590.html Please see my earlier request for retraction: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GoenchimXapotam/message/28965 This is my third reminder to Gilbert to retract his calumny on Goanet. Furthermore, in the present post, for some reason he has also injected unnecessary confusion into the legal definition of plagiarism, without providing any reference to an authentic original source for his claims. It is clear that he has foolishly confused copyright with plagiarism. I provide below the correct legal definition of plagiarism: QUOTE Intentional or unintentional use of another's words or ideas without acknowledging this use constitutes plagiarism: There are four common forms of plagiarism: * The duplication of an author's words without quotation marks and accurate references or footnotes. * The duplication of author's words or phrases with footnotes or accurate references, but without quotation marks. * The use of an author's ideas in paraphrase without accurate references or footnotes. * Submitting a paper in which exact words are merely rearranged even though footnoted. UNQUOTE Please see - http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/plagiarism/ Cheers, Santosh --- On Fri, 8/6/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > Plagiarism has well-defined legal > definition. I do not know the precise clauses; > but they are not whatever the know-it-all Goanetters > make-up. Complying > with the regulations, requires not only providing a > reference or web-link; but > also requires the author's and publisher's prior > permission to use their work. > Plagiarism also applies to using other peoples' work on > the web and on one's > web-site. (wink ... wink). Despite the soft-ware, > plagiarism like pornography > can be easily detected ... as we showed in your writing > about immunization in > Goa or the details about SFX in your writings. None of > what you wrote was > original research. Was It? > > The morally lowest form of ethics in plagiarism is to > present someone else's > work as the main basis to advance one's own standing and > career - be in print, > web article, website or speech. So web-surfing one or two > articles, does > not pass as "critical reading" of the subject, or qualify > one to claim to be > expert in that field despite repeated claims. > > > I am not at all defending plagiarism. Yet, our Goan > "authorities" on the > topic may want to apply the plagiarism rules to > themselves. Remember the famous > phrase, "point a finger at someone, and three fingers are > pointing back." So > stop being hypocritical. We have known your silly games all > along. > > > As far as hate-mail is concerned, a lot of this applies to > you Dr. Colaco. Some, > me included, have put you on notice to stop your crack-pot > assertions; whether > in jest or otherwise. From now on, you will get as good as > or even worse than > what you give. Please share this useful information with > your family in > advance. We do not want a repeat of the "Toronto saga". > > It appears that we have seen the end of the disgusting spam > mails. Some Goans > felt that their "brilliance" gave them a god-given right > to down-load their cr#p > to other Goans' computers in their private study room; > despite repeated polite > requests to refrain from doing so. I am sure most on the > spam list were victims > like me; but my special empathy goes to the Goanet > moderators on the spam list. > > Regards, GL > * * * Was life in the *kudds* glamourised? Who said, "It appears that the Goanese (sic) are a roving people, prepared to go to any part of the world for well-paid employment"? How did Goans find their first toehold in the Gulf? Find your answers in Selma Carvalho's *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Buy from Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in Goa only) Rs 295. http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/ * * *
Re: [Goanet] OBAMA FEAR's HINDU FUNDAMENTALIST's..
Dear Vasant, Thanks for giving me evidence that Obama is a Hindu fundamentalist. I don't think he will go to Tirupati because the evidence you have provided proves that he is a Hindi/Gujarati speaking north Indian Hindu extremist. I have also found out that many of his European, Hispanic, Chinese, Middle Eastern and African appointees have links with the non-Christian governments and political parties of India because their names appear on the websites of many Indian institutions and organizations. He has also been repeatedly photographed with an Indian Arab wearing a turban, who is currently the prime minister of India. It is rumored that he has received an urn containing the water of that Indian river that is named after a disease. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 8/7/10, Vasant Baliga wrote: > From: Vasant Baliga > Subject: [Goanet] OBAMA FEAR's HINDU FUNDAMENTALIST's.. > To: "Goanet" > Date: Saturday, August 7, 2010, 11:42 PM > Dear Santosh, > Obama has always been a closet Hindu-he appointed Sonal > Shah to a high position > inspite of Opposition from the Indian American > secularists.She was accused of > RSS links.He also has admitted carrying a Hanuman idol at > all times for good > luck. > Last month his administration announced that it had > appointed Preeta D. Bansal > to serve as the Vice Chair (Government Official) of the > Council of the > Administrative Conference of the U.S. (ACUS). Ms. > Bansal’s appointment follows > closely on the heels of a similar announcement last week, > of Nisha Desai > Biswal, who was nominated to the post of Assistant > Administrator for Asia in the > U.S. Agency for International Development. > > When their appointments are confirmed, the two women will > join the large and > growing club of Indian-American and Hindu Obama appointees, > which already > includes Rajiv Shah, Administrator, USAID, Vivek Kundra, > Federal Chief > Information Officer and Aneesh Chopra, First Chief > Technology Officer. > There are rumours in Indonesia-that his mother secretly > baptised him as a Hindu > in Bali and probably this explains why his half sister is > named Maya. > Now one hears that he is behind the conversion of Julia > Roberts to Hinduism and > that the movie Eat,Pray and Love is financed by Islamic > Sympathisers of Obama > from the Middle East and Kenya. > Watch out-there are rumours that India's God Kings will > accompany the Obamas to > Tirupati during his visit in November. > Cheers > Vasant >
Re: [Goanet] Some anti-plagiarism software
Hi Gilbert, I am indeed an expert on plagiarism because as a scientific laborer I have a professional need to know and teach students, fellows and researchers who work with me what is it that constitutes plagiarism. This is because they and I have to write full length peer-reviewed original research articles and grants, as well as review the ones written by others. But as a health care laborer you do not have a professional need to know about inquisition, the history of Goan temples, the exploits of Tipu Sultan, world economics, and financial management during a recession. So how come you consider yourself an expert in all of these fields? You are also misleading Goanetters about the following things, which will not please the moderators and the authorities who are concerned about accuracy and integrity in public cyberforums: 1. You are telling Goanetters that those who place quoted material within quotes and provide proper attribution and links for them, are the ones who are plagiarizing, not the other way round. 2. You are telling Goanetters that the provision of proper original quotes and links from the internet and elsewhere, as well as proper attribution indicates that those of us who do that, do not know anything about the subject in question, and our knowledge is limited to the quotes we provide. 3. You are telling Goanetters that provision of quotes, links and attributions means that we have not understood what is written in these quotes. 4. You are implying on Goanet that because you copy and paste without using quotation marks and links, or you paraphrase someone else's writings without mentioning the sources and giving them proper credit, your writings have to be regarded as original, and you are not trying to make yourself famous by using other people's work as your own. 5. You are telling Goanetters that any response to your posts on Goanet constitutes spam. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 8/7/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > Hi Santosh, > > In one week, you are an expert on another subject. In your > spam mail on this > topic, you plagiarized the article about plagiarism as well > as violated its > copyright protection. For the former you should be > ashamed. For the latter you > could get financial penalties. But I digress, as > previously stated, I am not an > expert on this topic. > > They tell me that I am good. But even I know, this > supurlo goenkar is not that > good. I can only do one DRE (digital rectal exam) at a > time. Right now I am > dealing with your "you-know-what." Perhaps like a good > friend (providing > protection when things get hard), you are doing him a 'por > favor'. > > So once he convinces us that his writings do not fall into > category of > plagiarism, I will address your 'sodachem' bogus concerns > and claims. Please do > not tell me that his TGF (This Goan Forum) website passed > through the > anti-plagiarism software program. I hope our friendly > expert does not go silent > on us, when it comes to applying his plagiarism theories > to his own practice. > > Till we accomplish the above, please sit on your hands and > keep your fingers > busy; instead of working your keyboard. Let us hope we > can do the above before > the weekend ends. I thought you were tired of me > analyzing your writings. I > certainly am. That should be a relief for you for now > for another two > weeks. > > Right now, do not come close to us. I do not know what JC > will do during > the DRE. And some of his could splash on you. I may > have to do a two-finger DRE > ... just to get a 'second opinion'.:=)) This is a > likely possibility, > especially if he weasels. Over the few years, he has > been weaseling a lot on > this topic, both on-and-off goanet. > > Some goanetters are likely having their weekend laughs. > Please do not do it too > loudly. You may wake the chickens and neighbors. > > Regards, GL > >
Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events
Mr. Furtado, Please read this slowly, noting all the correct spellings of words. Please also note that I, Santosh Helekar is posting this on a public Goan cyberforum called Goanet. Here are the meanings of the words "apology" and "regret". "apology" - "a written or spoken expression of one's regret, remorse, or sorrow for having insulted, failed, injured, or wronged another". .."an inferior specimen or substitute; makeshift"... Please click on this link with a computer mouse to read the above dictionary definitions - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apology "regret" - "a sense of loss, disappointment, dissatisfaction, etc"... ."a feeling of sorrow or remorse for a fault, act, loss, disappointment, etc." Please see - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/regret Here is the meaning of the word "retract". Please note the correct spelling. "retract" - ..."to withdraw (a statement, opinion, etc.) as inaccurate or unjustified, esp. formally or explicitly; take back." "to draw back or in" Please see - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/retract Now, I did not want your apology because you refuse to believe that you are wrong, and you do not have any regret for the wrong that you have done. So I request you to retract from this thread and move on to Hindu Obama against the good Christians. Please tell me what you know in Bombay about how the first commandment to "examine your conscience" and make sure "everything there is accounted for", ensures that the Christian fundamentalists cannot ban conversions and vandalize Hindu temples in the U. S. of A. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 8/8/10, Sam Furtado wrote: > > Dr. Helekar, > > First and foremost tell me please, in English word, what do > youo mean by 'Apology and Regret', give me he definition? > > Secondly, who in his or her right sense would apologize for > nothing or be sorry for having done nothing wrong. > > So why the question of you repeating that I retranct my > words of having disreputed you in public domain when > an apology to that should have an convincing effect on you > and that should have sufficed you.. > > Do you feel that the specific kind of words have a special > kind of forbearance on you and an apology would be less > respectful and bring disrepute to your name and that > retriving statement would have glorified you and cruxified > me. > > I feel you have strange ways of getting things done, when > at one stroke two birds can be felled you want two stones to > do the job > > So, Stop this vicious cycle that would lead you nowhere and > unnecessarity get an entanglement with no loose strings > left. > > Sam > --- On Sun, 8/8/10, Sam Furtado wrote: > > Reading the e-mail of Mr. Mark D’ Souza, in Goanet today, > in which he states ‘In America there are no > anti-conversion laws and there are no Christian > fundamentalist who will go around bashing Hindu Missionaries > or vandalizing Hindu temples and here in India there are > anti-conversion laws and the Hindu fundamentalist go around > bashing Christian Missionaries and vandalizing churches’ > etc is absolutely right and true what he has stated and I > fully agree with him.. > > The cause for this could be that the Hindu Fanatics or the > few rogue elements who have infiltrated the Christian > religious order are afraid that in the event the Indian > populace crosses to the other side of the fence and embrace > Christianity, then they would loose their true identity, > which presently allows them to do as the wish and pleased > without having to answer to God or man, whereas in U. S. of > A. first commandment examine your conscience and everything > there is accounted for. > > Also point of Mark and which is an eye opener; is about the > Indian Clergy, which includes priests, bishops, cardinals > who preach from the pulpit of serving the poor with cash and > kind that includes housing are instead misusing church funds > and selling church properties > without the knowledge of the parishioners, is a point in > contention that needs to be closely investigated by the > concerned authorities before it is too late and the rot sets > in. > > Sam Furtado > Bombay >
Re: [Goanet] OBAMA's GOVT & JULIA ROBERT's HINDU CASTE & NAME.......
--- On Tue, 8/10/10, M D wrote: > >Julia Roberts converting to Hinduism is not a threat to Christianity but >>Julia Roberts should be gracious enough to change her Christian name to >Hindu name. > I disagree with the assertion that Julia Roberts is not a threat to Christianity. All she has to do now is change her name. Already many Christian Goanetters and Christian Goans by birth have become Hindus e.g. Valmiki Faleiro, Radharao Gracias, Dinesh D'Souza and Pandurang Fernandes. Many others have done it by wearing sarees and lungis, and eating samosas and drinking rasam. Now with Obama becoming a Hindu fundamentalist I think the threat to Christianity has become critical. Some drastic final solution is needed as Nascimento has suggested. With so many enlightened individuals having become its members I think Goanet is the right place to come up with that solution. Cheers, Santosh --- On Tue, 8/10/10, M D wrote: > >Julia Roberts converting to Hinduism is not a threat to Christianity but >>Julia Roberts should be gracious enough to change her Christian name to >Hindu name. > Unlike Taliban & Al-Qaeda the > Hindu Fundamentalists (rashtriya swamyamsevak > sangh, vishwa hindu parishad, bajrangdal, shivsena, durga > vahini, ram sene, > etc) Don’t Attack AMERICAN PEOPLE this explains why the > US Government, CIA & > FBI are not interested in monitoring the activities of the > Hindu > fundamentalists. The Hindu fundamentalists receive most of > their funds from > Hindu organizations in US, UK, Europe, Canada, Australia > & New Zealand. But > the Western Governments are not interested in blocking > these funds because > the Hindu fundamentalists are NOT attacking WHITE PEOPLE. > US President > Barack Obama is appointing certain Hindus with RSS & > VHP links in his > administration some Indian origin Christian & Muslim > groups in USA have > protested but Obama is not bothered..Obama is also not > bothered about > the random attacks on christians and vandalization of > churches in India this > proves Barack Obama is not a Christian. > > Julia Roberts converting to Hinduism is not a threat to > Christianity but > Julia Roberts should be gracious enough to change her > Christian name to > Hindu name. Most of the Hindu Organizations in America are > associated with > Vishwa Hindu Parishad which is involved in anti-christian > activities in > India. The VHP should suggest Julia some Hindu names or > maybe Christians can > suggest Julia some hindu names. How about Radha Roberts. > > Julia Roberts childrens hindu names given by one swami when > Julia was in > India are - Laxmi for Hazel, Ganesh for Phinnaeus and > Krishn Balram for > Henry. Wonder why the swami did not give Julia a Hindu name > ? And what caste > now Julia belongs to – is she a Brahmin hindu or > Kshatriya hindu or Vaisya > hindu or Sudra Hindu or Mahar Hindu or Chambhar Hindu or > Dalit Hindu ? Has > Julia any knowledge of the caste system in Hinduism ? Does > Julia know the > origins of Hinduism ? Does Julia know who the indo-aryans > were ? Does Julia > know that the hindu caste system was the first form of > organized apartheid > in the World ? > > Christianity is facing certain threats from Taliban, > Al-Qaeda & the Hindu > Fundamentalists but the biggest threat to Christianity > comes from certain > priests, pastors, vicars, chaplains, monsignors, deacons, > bishops, cardinals > who are living a luxurious lifestyle and have become more > secular in their > work, thought, dress, speech, sermons than the laity (lay > christians). A few > rogue elements who have infiltrated the Christian religious > orders have > destroyed centuries of sweat, tears, sacrifice and blood by > hundreds of > thousands of priests and nuns. > > Its hard to survive in the news market in India without > crap news. They will > show everything that doesn’t matter. 3 hours per day > about bollywood and > tellywood, 1 hrs per day about some magician, 3 hrs youtube > videos, 5 hours > superstitions, 3 hrs murders and rape. all this crap goes > on and on. Thou > all this news are pathetic but still if you switch it on > you cant get away > from it, all these craps are indeed too attractive to an > average Indian. > > Someone needs to setup a serious TV news channel in India > that can report > and expose the incestuous network between the Politicians, > land mafia, > Builders, judiciary, police, slumlords, state bureaucracy, > corporates, > traders, industrialists, contractors, ias/ips officers, > government > officials, judicial officers, real estate developers, > customs officials, > excise officials, law enforcement officials, municipal ward > officers, > rationing officials, collectors office, etc. > > For decades, the United States was the bastion of Christian > Values, the > haven for all those who desired to be free to worship God > without Government > interference. However, all things Christian are now being > herded into a > corner and into an are
Re: [Goanet] Some anti-plagiarism software
I don't understand either the logic or the factual basis on which Gilbert is making some really outrageous allegations against me in the post appended below, and I suspect that there might be quite a few Goanetters with professional knowledge about plagiarism and/or cancer cure who don't as well. I find his assertions to be absurd and illogical. Out of the blue, he is accusing me of fooling and lying to Goanetters, and also plagiarizing on Goanet. I would therefore like to ask him the following questions: 1. What do you know that leads you to believe that my claims on plagiarism and cancer cure are meant to fool the people? 2. Why do you believe that to claim that I have a professional need to know about plagiarism, and that I have critically read, understood and studied the latest original papers, as I did, means that I am fooling the people? 3. Why did your jaw drop when you saw my posts on cancer cure, when the jaws of other properly qualified medical professionals with knowledge about cancer, did not? Which posts are these? 4. Could you please show me the posts of mine wherein I am using a loophole to continue to plagiarize? Please have the courtesy and intellectual honesty to kindly answer these questions of mine, and defend your wild slanderous accusations against me. Cheers, Santosh --- On Wed, 8/11/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > ----- Santosh Helekar wrote: > > I am indeed an expert on plagiarism because as a scientific > laborer I have a > professional need to know and teach students, fellows and > researchers who work > with me what is it that constitutes plagiarism. This is > because they and I have > to write full length peer-reviewed original research > articles and grants, as > well as review the ones written by others. > > GL responds: > > The above is similar to your line on the "cancer cure" > discussion; where you > claimed: "critical reading, understanding and study of the > latest original > papers." Such claims do not fool those who know. To > some, that sounds pretty > impressive. One cannot fool ALL people for ALL > the time. My jaw dropped to see > your posts on "cancer cure". Is that your MO? > > > Use of anti-plagiarism software is like the 'radar gun / > trapster' on the car to > detect the speed traps; instead of obeying the speed > limits. It appears as you > have studied the topic of plagiarism, you have developed a > way to circumvent > (find a loophole); while continuing to plagiarize. The > following however may > help those who truly desire to write their thoughts and > perspectives. > > Referring to References: > > This is not pointed at any individual. Hopefully it will > address misconceptions > and change some practices on Goanet > > From the article in the link below from Indiana > University, there is both an > acceptable AND unacceptable summation of what is written / > published. The former > is called "Acceptable Paraphrasing" (kosher / permissible). > The later is called > "Plagiarism" (non-kosher / not-OK). The terms > "Paraphrasing" and "Plagiarism" > is taken from the Indiana University education site. > Readers may want to review > the examples provided for themselves. > > > http://www.indiana.edu/~wts/pamphlets/plagiarism.shtml > > If I am not mistaken, the plagiarized material was from > the above link. > But conveniently excluded were the two types of summations > - the acceptable and > unacceptable. Is this a similar to the selective but > inappropriate quotes on > "cancer cure"? > > Semantics aside, what is not acceptable (except for one > solitary member on > goanet) is WHOLESALE use of "Copy and Paste" even with > a reference / link. Here, > the author has not added anything original to the dialog / > discussion other than > FALSELY presenting himself as an expert on the topic d' > jour (topic of the day), > displaying his / her prowess at web-surfing and > technology-skills; including use > of software to detect plagiarism. > > > At best, the author uses COPY AND PASTE technology rather > than self-knowledge > and persuasive writing skills to enlighten and expand the > dialog. More likely, > he / she deflects discussing the specific issue. In the > dialog, he / she may > tend to mis-state the issue (to suit the COPY and PASTE > material), and then > summarizes with bogus comments and innuendos. > > > Does plagiarism software differentiate between the two > types of summations > presented in the Indiana website? I do not know, since I > do not d
[Goanet] A request to all active contributors to Goanet
I am preparing to conclude an interesting sociological research study on Goanet and similar Goan mailing lists. I will tell you all the details about it as soon as it is completed. But in order to begin the next critical phase of the study I need to ask all the active Goanet contributors for a favor. Could you please do the following for me from now on, i.e. as soon as you read this post on Goanet? Whenever you forward or post something to Goanet, could you kindly cc it to me at the following email address? chimbel...@yahoo.com Please do so each time even if you post the same thing multiple times. I would really appreciate your indulgence in this project of mine, which would hopefully give us a deeper insight into the Goan internet community. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] A request to all active contributors to Goanet
--- On Sat, 8/14/10, Bosco D wrote: > > RESPONSE: When did the research begin? Who decides what is > interesting?? What is the research about? Which are the Goan > mailing lists similar to Goanet? > Five years ago. The researcher decides. About social networks, and interests, preferences, choices of social networks. GX, Goa Research Net and variable cc lists. > > RESPONSE: What happened to full disclosure before > commencing a research study? Kuch hera-firi research hai > kya?? > The technical details of the study are never part of full disclosure. Full disclosure involves a general statement on the nature of the study, the risks and benefits involved, and a statement about financial conflicts of interest. General statement on the nature and benefits has been provided. There are no risks and no financial conflicts. The details cannot be revealed because revealing them affects the outcome of the study. > > RESPONSE: How many phases are there in this study? How many phases are > >completed? > Two phases. None completed. > > RESPONSE: Favor? People participating in research studies > are usually rewarded with something tangible. You want > something in exchange for nothing. I want to see something > tangible unlike the startup of another Spam List before I cc > you anything. > Not usually, but sometimes, depending on the nature of the involvement. Impersonal internet-based studies do not in most cases involve compensation. Participation is voluntary. The response from participants in such cases is usually about 20 - 30%. > > RESPONSE: Deeper?? Khorench?? Remember Goenkars are very > smart people and already have lots of insights with or > without this bizarre sounding sociological research study. > The study is independent of the smartness of the participants and/or list moderators. New studies often sound bizarre to people who do not know anything about them. > > Considering your comment above, is your "interesting > sociological research study" going to improve the > "semi-literacy level of this forum" or lower it further? > Just asking, maaan!! > The study is independent of the literacy level of the participants and/or list moderators. It will do nothing to change it. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] CM: Nehru would have given special status
Does GoaSuraj Party believe that Goan Indians should not celebrate Indian Independence day? Is this part of its platform? Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 8/15/10, floriano wrote: > > Absolutely well said that, Agnelo > > Cheers > floriano > goasuraj > 9890470896 > www.goasu-raj.org for expanded scrolling Party Presentation > on the Home Page. > > - Original Message - From: "pinheiro" > To: "GOA Net" > Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 7:19 PM > Subject: [Goanet] CM: Nehru would have given special > status > > > > I was not even in 1961, but > history tell us Nehru and his Congress Party are biggest > liars of 20th century. 'Special status' is raked time > and again and brought to forefront when elections are > around only to be dumped after election. Why Digu Kaka > remembers the dead dream this 15th August 2010. > > > > BTW, what is the significance of > 15th August 1947 Independence of India to Goans which was > under Portuguese rule and was not part of India? Should > Goans really be celebrating Independence of India which > preached 'Ahimsa' to the world but 14 years later used > military force to occupy Goa? > > > > Agnelo > >
Re: [Goanet] Caste and Creed
Nascimento, Can you please explain to Vasant and Sameer why you believe Indian cuisine, Indian cooking and Indian attire, such as poodvem, lungi, angostor, saadi and kaapod are primitive, lowly, uncivilized and unenlightened? Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 8/16/10, Nascy Caldeira wrote: > > Dear Vasant, > > U remove the 'serious causes' that are making me point out > the Bad things Indian, and I will have no reason to indulge > in pointing them out. OK? > > I have said that U and Sameer have mixed up deliberately, > freedom of religion issues etc, with Caste and Casteism > practices. Why do U want to confuse and mislead readers? > I am trying to be objective against these evils in Hindu > society. U think I enjoy writing about these things? NO! I > cry when I see such inhumane prejudices are being practiced > in the Land of my birth. > U guys are impervious to this; as U are one of them. > > OR Renounce Casteism and Seperatism now. OK? and Redeem > yourselves. > > Are U trying to defend the indefensible? > Why do U not answer my question: What is your choice? > a casteless society with no caste; or a society where > everyone is a brahmin, or everyone is a sudhir. > > U have not even attenpted to answer the above. > > Until such time that the whole of India is not a casteless > society, I will campaign for it and take it to the world at > large, to take action like the world did against South > Africa against Racism and Apartheid. The Indian version is > worse, as the same is entrenched for centuries by their own > people. Indian against Indian. > > Nascy. > > --- On Mon, 16/8/10, Vasant Baliga > wrote: > > Dear Nascy, > > > > Hinduism is one of the oldest and most humane > > religions-like other religions,it > > has it's faultlines,caste being one of them and like > other > > religions,it has it's > > extremist loonies who discredit the religion.The vast > > majority of Hindus are > > peaceloving,compassionate and very considerate to > all.That > > will never change- > > inspite of your statements to the contrary.India's > polity > > testifies to that. > > > > I have repeatedly said that Caste has no place in our > > lives-I do not claim any > > caste and it is irrelevant to me-Caste is an accident > > of birth and is > > abominable.Our family consider ourselves Global > Citizens > > with an open mind and > > Caste,Creed and Religion is of no consequence to > > us-good and decent human > > beings who respect one another are. > > > > Best Regards > > > > Vasant Baliga > > > > >
Re: [Goanet] Caste and Creed
Nascimento, I know the truth. I think it hurts you, not me. Why are you afraid to tell Vasant and Sameer that truth about yourself? Can you please answer my question for them? Cheers, Santosh --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Nascy Caldeira wrote: > > Santosh, > No need to respond to U here. U are gone off track, as > usaual. > The greatest Twister of facts on Goan cyber forums. Do U > know how to do the "TWIST". If not please learn and do it; > that way the forums will be rid of your faulty logic. Hah > hah! > I think U are finding that 'the truth hurts'!!! I hope it > hurts very badly. > Sabash! > Nascimento. > --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Nascy Caldeira wrote: > > Santosh, > No need to respond to U here. U are gone off track, as > usaual. > The greatest Twister of facts on Goan cyber forums. Do U > know how to do the "TWIST". If not please learn and do it; > that way the forums will be rid of your faulty logic. Hah > hah! > I think U are finding that 'the truth hurts'!!! I hope it > hurts very badly. > Sabash! > Nascimento. > > > --- On Tue, 17/8/10, Santosh Helekar > wrote: > > Nascimento, > > > > Can you please explain to Vasant and Sameer why you > believe > > Indian cuisine, Indian cooking and Indian attire, such > as > > poodvem, lungi, angostor, saadi and kaapod are > primitive, > > lowly, uncivilized and unenlightened? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Santosh > >
Re: [Goanet] Fw: Can José Pereira be anti-Hindu ?
--- On Tue, 8/17/10, Ivo wrote: > >I have taken part in their seminars and spoken in > english, hindi and marathi (my knowledge is only smattering > in these languages, yet I used to prepare with the help of > my students), in favour of religious dialogue, without > falling into a wrong concept of "all religions are > equal"... > Why is "all religions are equal" a wrong concept in a secular country? Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Fw: Can José Pereira be anti-Hindu?
--- On Tue, 8/17/10, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > * Can a believer in a monotheistic religion be compelled to believe > that "all religions are equal"? > Nobody can be compelled to believe anything in free secular democracy. But people have the freedom to persuade others to believe or not to believe, and peacefully convert them to their own beliefs or lack thereof. > > * In what way is a secularism (where the State is expected > to be neutral to all religions) related to the belief that "all > religions are equal" or otherwise? --FN > In a secular country the state is supposed to treat all religious beliefs as equal, and not look favorably upon any particular set of beliefs. So back to my original question again. Why is "all religions are equal" a wrong concept in a secular country? Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Fw: Can José Pereira be anti-Hindu?
--- On Tue, 8/17/10, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > You seem to be mixing up issues here between what is a > practical policy for a secular State (particularly one like India) to > adopt, and what Fr Ivo (as a believer in a monotheistic religion) has > a right to personally believe if he so chooses. > I am not mixing up issues at all. The extraneous issues were brought into this discussion by you. My question is simple, and it applies to a secular country as a whole, as I have clearly mentioned, not to Fr. Ivo, to you or to any specific individual. Since the statement was made in the context of an interfaith dialogue, it is necessary to ask the question I asked from a pluralist secular point of view. I do not care about the parochial point of view of any particular religion. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Fw: Can José Pereira be anti-Hindu ?
Scholars who understand and respect the constitution of India, such as the prime minister of India reject the claim that the concept that "all religions are equal" is wrong in a secular country. He believes correctly that the secular Indian constitution recognizes that all religions are equal. Here is his quote from a speech he gave at the South Asian Inter Faith Harmony Conclave: Please see: http://pmindia.nic.in/speech/content.asp?id=524 QUOTE When we say our Constitution is secular, we mean that it espouses the separation of religion from politics and governance. Equally, it means that the Constitution accords equal status to all religious faiths. The idea of equality is important ...All religions are equal, just as all human beings are equal. When we view each other as equals, we try to live in harmony. UNQUOTE ..Manmohan Singh, Prime Minister of India Great thinkers such as Vivekananda and Mahatma Gandhi have also espoused the equality of all religions. Cheers, Santosh P.S. BTW, the statements on scientific theories and therapeutic drugs below do not make any sense at all, in terms of relevance or analogy. --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Ivo wrote: > > **By definition, a secular State respects the religious > rights of all the citizens. It does not define which > religion is better than the other. It is left to us to study > it in comparative study of religions. Agnostics cannot > appreciate nor decide this point. Not all routes are equally > good, not all scientific theories are equally good, not all > therapeutic drugs are equally good. All religions cannot be > equally good. We would not choose any religion, without > deciding which is good in itself and for us. Even if we are > born in one religion, we can investigate it. Why is it that > so many intellectuals have chosen Catholic religion? > Regards. > Fr.Ivo >
Re: [Goanet] Can Jose Pereira be anti-Hindu?
--- On Wed, 8/18/10, U. G. Barad wrote: > > Concluding line used by Fr. Ivo confused me more on Catholic religion >after > reading contradictory statements which are available at: > >http://www.seesharppress.com/20reasons.html > > Hope Fr. Ivo trashes out all the 20 points written against > Christianity as religion in the web-link provided herein above. > Here are 6 good reasons to convert to Christianity: http://christianity.about.com/od/newchristians/p/whychristianity.htm Here is why one might want to abandon Hinduism: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ramendra_nath/hindu.html Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Caste and Creed
--- On Tue, 8/17/10, Nascy Caldeira wrote: > > Vasant has delared he does not believe in caste and or > casteism, he is just born into it. He is a good man.. I > accept that. > Nascimento, Are you a good man? Do Vasant and Sameer believe you are a good man? Cheers, Santosh --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Nascy Caldeira wrote: > > Santosh, (the pretender Agnostic) > > Why should I tell anyone, anything. I have written to the > Forum. > > Vasant has delared he does not believe in caste and or > casteism, he is just born into it. He is a good man.. I > accept that. > > But U Santosh the twister has made no such declaration. > Why? because U are a Casteist? > Or are you a Sudhir masquerading as a brahmin or neo > brahmin? > > I am not particularly interested in what U are. I am > interested in forging a Casteless Society in India. And as > for me, I am who I am. Not a Casteist! > A concerned Indian for the welfare and freedom of the > masses from Dominating Castes. > > I hope YOU will do likewise. > > Nascy Caldeira > > --- On Wed, 18/8/10, Santosh Helekar > wrote: > > Nascimento, > > > > I know the truth. I think it hurts you, not me. Why > are you > > afraid to tell Vasant and Sameer that truth about > yourself? > > Can you please answer my question for them? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Santosh > >
Re: [Goanet] Some anti-plagiarism software
This post of mine is a balanced and fair response to a flame bait and gratuitous personal attack already published on Goanet, the link to which is provided below: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-August/197330.html Gilbert, "Seeing" your "spam mail", and what you have written about the science of cancer in it "on this" spam "list" made my jaw drop"." You do not understand what you READ "or" write:)) You stand on the shoulders of experts "like" me without digesting, and make yourself famous. It is like those Goan professors who copy western "people" and novelists because of their white skin, "and" Ph.D. students who do not tell us that there were only a few temples in Goa, and they "were" all on the hills. When the Portuguese boats fired canons some canon balls accidentally destroyed "the" temples. And the inquisition ""was because only a few criminals had to be punished. It is like not knowing the fact that our grandmother knew "about" cancer cure, and "that she was an accurate scientist. We called it "petoita murre" when permission was not asked "to" self-plagiarize. This tells a "supurlo" goencar like moi why all Goanetters think that your posts "are" crackpot posts, and that you are not an animal-trainer in the three ring circus that is "Goanet":)):)):)) Thanks "for" admitting that you could either "be" an animal-trainer or a clown. Can "you" tell us the name "of" the person who registered your spam post on the internet, and "its" registration number? This "is" like breaking a Goanet rule, or not knowing that all you need to do for pneumonia "is" drink chicken soup"." Moderators and Goanetters"," please excuse my to-the-point explanations. Gilbert, ALL Goanetters know that I AM a ring master "in" THIS circus, and you are not "an" animal-trainer. As you said to another Goan "in" answering THE questions I had asked you in my last post, "If in the process, I publicly question your upbringing and the integrity of your parents and your family, that will not be my fault". This is like finding a loophole in "the" legal definition of cancer cure because you "are" a cancer therapist, and continuing "to" use that hole instead of curing cancer:)):-))(())(() It is also the same as when you said on another registered "or" unregistered spam mail "that" you sent to your friend and bodyguard that you "will publicly respond to (his) abuse and may even escalate it with statements that will make a sailor blush." In Part 2 of this post I "will" explain what happens when things get hard at night in the middle of a worldwide recession"," and there is no supporter"." Cheers, Santosh --- On Thu, 8/12/10, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > Santosh, thanks for asking me the questions. And then > answering them for me > yourself. > > To quote YOU! Here is what YOU recently wrote to another > Goan: "Of course, as > you know I treat Goanet as a three ring circus anyway. More > crackpot posts on it > the merrier." > > > So, you concede that your posts are crackpot. With the > above > comment, you answer many of questions you put to me. > This, after telling us how > learned you are and how highly skilled your writings. > > > > Santosh, thanks for the honesty about yourself and your > posts. If you think > goanet is a three-ring circus, do you consider yourself an > animal-trainer or a > clown? You are certainly not a passive observer watching > from the stands. > > > Very nice way for a very intelligent guy to spend in a > three ring circus, > up-teen hours a week, week-after-week over the last > several decades. Goa's > scientist is slandering himself ... and the rest of us. > > Now before you get bent our of shape. Yes I intially used > the phrase "crackpot > post". Based on past performance, your friend (provides > protection when things > get hard) may even accuse you of plagiarism (for re-using > my word). Yes I know > that is daft; but that is his logic. That is why I > directed that term of > "crackpot post" specifically to him - your friend (provides > protection when > things get hard). > > Regards, GL >
Re: [Goanet] Can Jose Pereira be anti-Hindu?
--- On Wed, 8/18/10, Frederick Noronha wrote: > >I disagree with Santosh's attempts to mix both up, or the suggestion that > one's religious views would be decided by the State's approach to > a [parallel] matter. > This is Admin Noronha's fabricated view of what my attempts have been. He has tried to put words in my mouth twice now. So once again, my attempts have nothing to do with what he is claiming here. I don't know how to be more clear than I have already been in this thread. Let me now just say flat out that I have never suggested that "one's religious views would be decided by the State's approach to a [parallel] matter." I don't even understand what this statement he has put in my mouth means. As a secular pluralist, I believe that one's religious views are his/her own problem, as long as they do not cause harm to humanity. All I have been saying is that, as the Prime Minister stated, the secular Indian constitution rightly holds that all religions are equal. I don't care what Fr. Ivo's parochial Catholic beliefs, Dr. Barad's parochial Hindu beliefs or Admin Noronha's parochial Atheist/Agnostic beliefs are on this matter. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] A request to all active contributors to Goanet
The sad false insinuation appended below from a poster called Jim Fernandes is because of the bogus personal issue that this poster has created against me out of whole cloth. It is also because he has no clue what this research is about, and is completely ignorant about how such research is conducted. He is deceiving Goanetters about my intentions, and about the simple fact that one does not need to have them cc their posts to me in order to create a mailing list, if that was my intention. The reason I have requested Goanetters to cc their Goanet posts to me is explained in the following response to Teotoniobab on Goa Research Net: QUOTE Hi Teotoniobab, Thanks for your interest in the study. I can access all the final posts in this forum on the web. But there is a technical reason for my asking prospective participants to cc me their posts, in addition. Without revealing it in any great detail because such disclosure has the potential to affect the outcome of the study, I can say that I am attempting to compare apples with apples here, and to avoid comparing apples with oranges, given the fact that my focus is social communication networks formed in 4 different kinds of public mailing lists around common topics, interests and preferences. The 4 kinds of lists are: 1. A moderated general purpose list with rules. 2. A moderated special purpose list with rules. 3. An unmoderated general purpose list with rules. 4. An unmoderated general purpose list without rules. I do not have access to an unmoderated special purpose list without rules. Otherwise, I would have included that as well. Cheers, Santosh UNQUOTE Please see - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goa-research-net/message/6408 Cheers, Santosh --- On Wed, 8/18/10, Jim Fernandes wrote: > > Jeevan R, > > The sad thing is that the original requester on this > thread, is using GoaNet to legalize his method of building > another of his SPAM lists. I have been there - so I know > it. > > If one wants to conduct research on GoaNet postings, the > researcher can simply go data-mining on GoaNet archives. Why > have all this elaborate ploy? Now do you see where I am > coming from? :) > > -- > - > > Seb dc, > > Contrary to popular belief, I view 'crab mentality' > phenomenon as simply a natural survival process. > > Crabs are simply trying to escape from the bucket by using > whatever method they see fit. It has nothing to do with > bringing down a stronger crab by a weaker crab in a bucket, > where all crabs in the bucket face certain death. > > Given my above views on survival instincts, I don't > understand what crab mentality you are talking about in this > situation The desired information is already out there > in GoaNet archives. > > Jim F > New York.
Re: [Goanet] A request to all active contributors to Goanet
Hi Admin Noronha, Thanks for letting me know that Brittos and BSG-Goa, of which I am not a member are public access unmoderated special purpose Goan mailing lists without rules. I can certainly use them. Cheers, Santosh --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > On 19 August 2010 17:47, Santosh > Helekar > wrote: > > 4. An unmoderated general purpose list without rules. > > > I do not have access to an unmoderated special > > purpose list without rules. Otherwise, I would > > have included that as well. > > How about > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/brittos > or > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bsg-goa > > Even if these don't exactly fit what you're looking out > for, I'm sure > there would be others too. See > http://wikiwikiweb.de/MailingListsInIndia > > Also, will your study be covering: > > 1. Partly moderated lists (where some of the members are > moderated)? > > 2. Lists whose public archives are not publicly available? > > 3. Non-publicised, by-invite-only CC lists which are run > without > server-based software, but which function as > un-unsubscribeable > "mailing lists" of sorts? > > Incidentally, the first real sociological study on Goanet, > for those > who might be interested, is here: > http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/goanet-news-goanet.org/2003-August/000276.html >
Re: [Goanet] A request to all active contributors to Goanet
Sorry for not noticing some questions that Admin Noronha had asked. Here are my answers. --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Frederick Noronha wrote: > > Also, will your study be covering: > > 1. Partly moderated lists (where some of the members are > moderated)? > There is no technical difference between such a list, and an already included list wherein most members are moderated, but the moderators, administrators, owner(s) and some members may not be. > > 2. Lists whose public archives are not publicly available? > If I don't have access to them, I cannot use them. > > 3. Non-publicised, by-invite-only CC lists which are run without > >server-based software, but which function as un-unsubscribeable "mailing > >lists" of sorts? > Yes. I will use lists to which I have access. > > Incidentally, the first real sociological study on Goanet, > for those who might be interested, is here: > http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/goanet-news-goanet.org/2003-August/000276.html > I remember reading this excellent scholarly article on Goanet. But this is a qualitative description of the activities of the Goan cyber-commmunity. What I have initiated is a quantitative cyber-Goa-focused study of formation of social networks involving such things as word frequencies, sizes of networks, number of nodes, number of connections, evolution of networks and of shared terms and topics over time, etc. I am attaching privately to Admin Noronha a copy of a research paper detailing a related but different version (and a little bit more computationally sophisticated version) of what I am talking about. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] A request to all active contributors to Goanet
This Jim Fernandes is now abusing Dr. Teotonio D'Souza because of another of his personal problems, in this case with Dr. D'Souza, and totally unrelated to the current thread. Fernandes is also misleading Goanetters about the simple fact that I had merely cced a few posts on a Goanet thread to him, and to another Goan mailing list. I have already given him permission to cc or post whatever posts of mine he is referring to as spam. Upon reading them, all objective Goanetters will realize what kind of a joke this fabricated personal issue is, and where the problem lies. Cheers, Santosh --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Jim Fernandes wrote: > > It's not 'bogus' personal issue. It's > a fact. > > Any GoaNetter wanting copies of the SPAM I received, can > write to me privately and I shall be glad to forward the > crap to whoever who is interested. I should point though, > that the SPAMMING has stopped after a relentless fight. > > I don't like to bring in third parties in my discussions - > since Senhor Helekar brought in Teotonio into this thread, I > have some serious issues with the credibility of Teotonio's > views and his writings about the Portuguese. > > If Teotonio disliked Portuguese rule in Goa, please go ask > him why he took Portuguese citizenship. I wouldn't go to > Teotonio for any sort of advice, considering he didn't > practice what he preached. > > Jim F > New York > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 19, 2010, at 8:17 AM, Santosh Helekar > wrote: > > > The sad false insinuation appended below from a poster > called Jim Fernandes is because of the bogus personal issue > ., > ... > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Santosh > > >
Re: [Goanet] All religions cannot be equal
A lot of the material in the post appended below has been selectively lifted
verbatim from a blogger named Siddhartha from Bangalore, without giving him
credit, without putting his text in quotation marks, and without providing a
link to one of his webpages containing this text. Please see for example:
http://pipaltree.org.in/index.php?page=the-equality-of-religions
Moreover, the funny thing is that what he has quoted from Gandhi vindicates the
secular pluralistic position of both Gandhi and the Indian constitution i.e.
all religions are equal - equal before the law and equally good.
Cheers,
Santosh
--- On Wed, 8/18/10, Ivo wrote:
>
> ***This is not a value judgment given by Manmohan Singh, it
> is alien to his
> speech. How can Manmohan Singh have a say on this topic?
> When we take part
> in the interfaith dialogue, we share our religious
> insights, precisely
> because our religions are not equal. This is a crass,
> supine blunder. The
> believers of different religions pledge to work for harmony
> and peace, for
> the human integral development.We come together on the
> concept of "Kingdom
> of God" ("Ramarajya" or "Golden Age"). The task of
> establishing the Kingdom
> of God, the New Society is not a monopoly of Christian
> communities. The
> Kingdom is the concern of everyone: individuals, society,
> and the world.
> Christian communities are called to work, in solidarity
> with others, for the
> establishment of a New Society, the Kingdom of God.
>
> <<...just as all human beings are equal. When
> > we view each other as equals, we try to live in
> harmony.
> **Yes, all human beings are equal (in humanity and human
> rights), before the Law. Yet India
> does not recognize it in practice. (Manmohan Singh, Prime
> Minister of India). Manmohan Singh is not giving a
> value-judgement about world religions, but a
> socio-political-legal statement. Would he accept that
> Sikhism and polythetistic Hinduism are "equal", equally
> good, equally acceptable to him? Would you accept that
> Hinduism, agnosticism and atheism (which is based on faith,
> not in science) are equallly good? Atheism, agnosticism,
> marxism are called "quasi-religions".
> >
> > Great thinkers such as Vivekananda and Mahatma Gandhi
> have also
> > espoused the equality of all religions.
> ***You are absolutely wrong.
> 1. The Constitution of India does not says that "all
> religions are equal", or equally good.
> "WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA, having solemnly resolved to
> constitute India into a SOVEREIGN SOCIALIST SECULAR
> DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC and to secure to all its citizens:
> JUSTICE, social, economic and political;
>
> LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and
> worship;
>
> EQUALITY of status and of opportunity;
>
> and to promote among them all
>
> FRATERNITY assuring the dignity of the individual and the
> unity and integrity of the Nation;
>
> IN OUR CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY this twenty-sixth day of
> November, 1949, DO HERE BY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO
> OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION". The art.14 says: "Equality
> before law: The State shall not deny to any person equality
> before the law or the equal protection of the laws within
> the territory of India Prohibition of discrimination on
> grounds of religion, race, caste, sex or place of birth".
>
> 2. Swami Vivekananda and Mahatma Gandi spoke always in the
> context of communal harmony:
>
> "As different streams, having their sources in different
> places, all mingle their water in
> the sea, so, O Lord, the different paths which men take
> through different
> tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or
> straight, all lead to
> Thee."
> In his speech in Chicago, Swami Vivekananda said: "I will
> quote to you, brethren, a few lines from a hymn which I
> remember to
> have repeated from my earliest boyhood, which is every day
> repeated by
> millions of human beings: "As the different streams having
> their sources in
> different paths which men take through different
> tendencies, various though
> they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee."
> The present convention, which is one of the most august
> assemblies ever
> held, is in itself a vindication, a declaration to the
> world of the
> wonderful doctrine preached in the Gita: "Whosoever comes
> to Me, through
> whatsoever form, I reach him; all men are struggling
> through paths which in
> the end lead to me."
>
> "Sectarianism, bigotry, and its horrible descendant,
> fanaticism, have long possessed this beautiful earth. They
> have filled the
> earth with violence, drenched it often and often with
> human blood, destroyed
> civilization and sent whole nations to despair. Had it not
> been for these
> horrible demons, human society would be far more advanced
> than it is now.
> But their time is come; and I fervently hope that the bell
> that tolled this
> morning in honor of this convention may be the death-knell
> of all
> fanaticism, of all persecutions
Re: [Goanet] A request to all active contributors to Goanet
I am refuting below all the bogus claims made by Fernandes. --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Jim Fernandes wrote: > > Helekar brought in Teotonio to bolster his argument that he > is dealing with a supposed Goan intellect and therefore my > line of questioning Helekar's motive, would become > off-limits. > The above is pure nonsense. Teotoniobab's name was included because I was copying and pasting a response to his comment on Goa Research Net. My response explained exactly what I wanted to say about the study. Inclusion of his name does not give Fernandes a license to abuse Teotoniobab on Goanet. > > For the record, I only stated facts about Teotonio - there > is no question of abusing him in any way. A more interesting > commentary on Teotonio is available at http://www.colaco.net/1/FredVdG.htm . > This is a falsehood. What Fernandes has stated is his ignorant negative opinion about Teotoniobab. Please see his quote below: "I have some serious issues with the credibility of Teotonio's views and his writings about the Portuguese." Jim Fernandes What credibility or scholarship does Fernandes have to question the credibility of Dr. Teotoniobab De Souza on Portuguese history? > > My response: > "Merely cced a few posts " ? Hello? > I had cced exactly 8 posts to Fernandes along with members of another Goan mailing list on two related topics that originated on Goanet. Most, if not all of these posts were already posted on Goanet. > > It took me a month or more, to stop the SPAM completely. > Since Helekar included my email ID in his SPAM list to begin > with, it was his duty to ensure my ID was taken off of it > upon my request. He didn't. > This is a blatant falsehood. I removed Fernandes' name from the cc list as soon as he announced that he did not want to be on it. My first cced post to him on that list was on July 2nd and my last cced post to him was on July 5th. So it is exactly 3 days, not "a month or more" as he claims. As far as his receiving emails from others in other threads which were cced to me, is concerned, I can see that the last email by others was on July 25th, so again Fernandes is deliberately deceiving Goanetters, even on that front. In that time we received the most filthy and obnoxious email on that mailing list from Fernandes, and public threats against me on Goanet, as well as against another Goanetter on that list. Any sensible Goanetter would realize exactly where the problem and blame lie in this case. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Medjugorje Visions Proven Not A Deception
The claims made about the so-called scientific studies in the links below are not credible from the neurophysiological standpoint. Electroencephalography (EEG) cannot tell us whether there is deception or not. It cannot also tell us whether there is self-deception or not. The purported scientific results in this case have not been published in any scientific journal. In fact, the scientist whose name is mentioned in these links has not published any research paper on EEG in general in the peer-reviewed medical scientific literature. As far as Medjugorge is concerned, there are only two brief letters referring to this place in the medical literature. Both of them have to do with damage to the eyes of some pilgrims caused by gazing at the sun for long periods of time, hoping to see the miraculous apparitions. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 8/14/10, Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão wrote: > > Any scientific person in this fora who has better better > knowledge to refute this claim? > > http://deaconjohn1987.blogspot.com/2010/03/medjugorje-visions-proven->not-deception.html > > And more tests: > > http://www.medjugorje.com/medjugorje/scientific-studies/627-specific-tests-administered-to-the-medjugorje-visionaries-and-their-results.html > > Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão. > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ISSUES BEING DEBATED: In East Africa, despite colonialism, the British afforded the Goan a sliver of a socio-political voice. Read *Into The Diaspora Wilderness* by Selma Carvalho. Soon to be available in Toronto. Pp 290. Via mail-order from goa1...@gmail.com http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
Re: [Goanet] All religions are not equally good
--- On Thu, 8/19/10, Ivo wrote > > What is funny is that Santosh does not understand that according to >the > Constitution of India, alluded to by Mohan Singh, all religions are >equal > under the Law; therefore, all have to be equally respected. It > does not mean that all religions are equally good. > The above statement is pure nonsense. According to the Indian Constitution, as repeatedly interpreted by the Indian Supreme Court, all religions are equally good. Please see the following excerpt from a scholarly article by Justice Gulab Gupte on the supreme law of the land in India, published in the Central India Law Quarterly: QUOTE Art. 25 of the Constitutional creed is the bed-rock of secularism and is based on the belief that all religions are equally good and efficacious pathways to perfection of God-realization.1 In its positive sense, it is the cornerstone ot an egalitarian and torward-Iooking society, which the Constitution seeks to establish.2 Though secularism is not defined in the Constitution, the Supreme Court has, from time to time, explained it in several contexts. In S.R. Sommai Case3 Justice Jeevan Reddy held it to be more than a passive attitude to religious tolerance. It is, according to him, a positive concept of equal treatment of all religions. UNQUOTE .Justice Gulab Gupte Here is the link to the entire article - http://www.indiankanoon.org/cached/1736032/ Cheers, Santosh --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Ivo wrote > > What is funny is that Santosh does not understand that > according to the > Constitution of India, alluded to by Mohan Singh, all > religions are equal under > > the Law; therefore, all have to be equally respected. It > does not mean that all > > religions are equally good. Even atheism, agnosticism, > marxism, which are > > "quasi-religions", in the expression of Paul Tillich, are > to be respected. It > > does not mean that theism and atheism are equally good, > because, being > > contradictory terms, they would destroy each other, and > nothing would have > > remained... Both cannot be equally good. This is illogical, > irrational, absurd. > > Let Santosh not repeat the blunder again and again... > > Regards. > > Fr.Ivo * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Goa-launch of the well-received *Into The Diaspora Wilderness* by Selma Carvalho on Aug 29, 2010 (Sunday) at 11 am at Ravindra Bhavan, Margao. Meet the author, buy a signed copy (only Rs 295 in Goa till stock lasts). http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
Re: [Goanet] All religions cannot be equally good
--- On Fri, 8/20/10, Ivo wrote: > > ***This is absolutely wrong. The texts are from the > Constitution of India, from writings of Mahatma Gandhi (some > of them are in the blog mentioned by him, but they are > quaotations, not texts of the author), and from the speech > of Swami Vivekananda in Chicago. > The above assertion with regard to Siddhartha's article is absolutely not true. For example, the following statement is lifted verbatim from that article without placing it within quotes, and without giving Siddhartha credit. QUOTE The equality of all religions: Gandhi propagated the notion of Sarvadharma Samabhava, the equality of all religions. This is an important notion, particularly in a world where we are witnessing an increase in religious fundamentalism and religious conflict. Although it was clear to Gandhi that there was only one God, he was realistic enough to recognize that different religions would always exist. UNQUOTE Siddhartha Please see: http://pipaltree.org.in/index.php?page=the-equality-of-religions Please compare that quote with the identical text from the following Goanet post of Fr. Ivo: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg65904.html Even basic common sense should tell sensible people that Gandhi could not have referred to himself in the third person. There are also other misrepresentations regarding me in the rest of the post below. One of them should be clear from what I had actually said on Goanet in the following posts: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg28859.html http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg29503.html Cheers, Santosh --- On Fri, 8/20/10, Ivo wrote: > > ***This is absolutely wrong. The texts are from the > Constitution of India, from writings of Mahatma Gandhi (some > of them are in the blog mentioned by him, but they are > quaotations, not texts of the author), and from the speech > of Swami Vivekananda in Chicago. Therefore it is wrong what > Santosh is saying, it is a calumny, it is a misunderstanding > of what "plagiarims" is... Once also he accused me of > "plagiarism" when I quoted the Court's statement (In > re...). > > > Moreover, the funny thing is that what he has quoted > from Gandhi > > vindicates the secular pluralistic position of both > Gandhi and the > > Indian constitution, i.e. all religions are equal - > equal before the > > law and equally good. > ***Absolutely wrong. First of all, Santosh said that I had > written texts without references. All references to Mahatma > Gandhi's quotations have been given. Secondly, Mahatma > Gandhi speaks of his preference for monotheism and refers to > harmony. But just as men are all human in spite of > their different names and forms, just as leaves of a tree > though different as leaves are the same as the leaves of the > same tree, all religions though different are the same. We > must treat all > religions as equals" (Harijanbandhu, July 22, 1934). Gandhi > says that "they are different, but we must treat all > religions as equals". He does not say that all religions are > equally true and good. If any one says that all religions > are equally true and good, s/he is mistaken. Let Santosh > give me the right to interpret the right way, not the wrong > way as he is subreptitiously doing, although he claims to be > a great scientist. He should learn the meanings of > plagiarism, contradiction, remission, cure, fact of > empirical observation (remember that Santosh attributed to > the Cardinal Cormack the statement that God is not > real...). > Regards. > Fr.Ivo > > >>> --- On Wed, 8/18/10, Ivo > wrote: > >> > >> ***This is not a value judgment given by Manmohan > Singh, it > >> is alien to his > >> speech. How can Manmohan Singh have a say on this > topic? > <<<...Would he accept that Sikhism and > polytheistic Hinduism are "equal", equally > good, equally acceptable to him? Would you accept that > >> Hinduism, agnosticism and atheism (which is based > on faith, > >> not in science) are equallly good? > > >> > Great thinkers such as Vivekananda and > Mahatma Gandhi > >> have also espoused the equality of all religions. > >> ***You are absolutely wrong. > >> 1. The Constitution of India does not says that > "all > >> religions are equal", or equally good. > >> 2. Swami Vivekananda and Mahatma Gandi spoke > always in the > >> context of communal harmony: > In his speech in Chicago, Swami > Vivekananda said: "I will > >> quote to you, brethren, a few lines from a hymn > which I > >> remember to have repeated from my earliest > boyhood, which is every day > >> repeated by millions of human beings: "As the > different streams having > >> their sources in different paths which men take > through different > >> tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or > straight, all lead to Thee." > >> 3. Gandhi propagated the notion of > Sarvadharma Samabhava, > >> the equality of all religions. >> > >> Gandhi insisted that, "T
Re: [Goanet] "All religions cannot be equal"
Sandeep, Which statement of mine on Goanet are you responding to? The post you think you are responding to was not allowed to appear on Goanet. I guess the moderators decided that Goanetters did not deserve to read my side of the argument. I am hoping this response of mine will not be blocked like the previous one. So here goes. You have a basic misunderstanding of what I wrote, and what is meant by equality of religions, as it is understood by modern secular pluralism. Equality as understood by modern society does not mean identity. Otherwise, equality of all human beings would be a sham because no two human beings are identical. What I wrote is not my interpretation of the law. It is my statement of the credo of modern secular pluralism. No religion is better or superior to any other religion. No religion is worse or inferior to any other religion. In other words, all religions are equally good. The interpretation that this is also the bedrock creed of the Indian constitution, as interpreted by the supreme court is what Justice Gupte stated in the following quote: QUOTE Art. 25 of the Constitutional creed is the bed-rock of secularism and is based on the belief that all religions are equally good and efficacious pathways to perfection of God-realization. UNQUOTE ..Justice Gulab Gupte Please read Justice Gupte's entire article at the following link: http://www.indiankanoon.org/cached/1736032/ Having read a little bit about what exactly is meant by equality in modern thought, I can fully understand the sense in which Justice Gupte expounds that tacit belief inherent in article 25. The statements I have made regarding equality are my understanding of the extended notion of equality as it applies to modern secular society. As I said earlier, equality does not mean identity or even similarity. That is why I have used general non-specific terms such as good, bad, supernatural, rational and beneficial as parameters for comparison between religions. To know why, all one has to do is use an analogous statement whose validity no sensible, non-prejudiced person would deny today. This statement is: All races and ethnic groups are equally good. Now, does this mean that if you measure the crime rate, the incidence of sociopathy, the percentage of individuals behind bars, the percentage of corrupt individuals, etc., all their values would be equal across all races and ethnic groups? The answer to this question is demonstrably no. Different groups might have different values for these parameters. But it does not invalidate the above statement of equality. The reason for this is goodness is an overall balanced norm and an ideal that is shared by all normal humans regardless of race or ethnicity. The same is true with religion or lack thereof. If you don't agree with this, and your particular form of Indian secularism holds that all religions are not equally good then please answer my questions below: 1. Which religion according to you is the best? 2. Which religion is better - Hinduism or Christianity? 3. Which sect of Christianity is better than the rest? It is no good saying that one is better in one respect and another in another respect. Please give me a straightforward categorical answer based on your understanding of the norm of each religion or sect. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sun, 8/22/10, Sandeep Heble wrote: > > Santosh has misinterpreted the > provisions of law and has drawn wrong > conclusions. > > Nowhere in the Constitution of the land does it say that > "All > religions are equally good or equally bad". > > Religions have their own distinct features and > characteristics and can > therefore never be equal. From different standpoints, some > are bound > to be either superior or inferior to the other. > > Even using elementary logic, it is easy to show how from > different > standpoints, some religions are bound to be either better > or worse > than the other. > > For instance, from the standpoint of equality of human > beings, > Christianity is superior to Hinduism while it is inferior > to Buddhism. > > From the standpoint of "Freedom of expression", Hinduism > will be much > superior since Christianity and Islam have a history of > intolerance in > this regard. > > From the standpoint of rationalism, Buddhism is much > superior to many > other religions while Jainism will probably be the best > when it comes > to respecting "Animal Rights" and so on and so forth. > > So even an elementary comparative study on religions will > easily > demonstrate how two different religions can never be > equally good (or > equally bad). > > From the legal perspective, “Equality of Religion” does > not mean all > religions are equally good or equally bad. All it means is > the State > must adopt neutrality towards religions; that there must > not be a > State Religion, that it must not give preferential > treatment to any > one religion over the other; that all
Re: [Goanet] ADOLF HITLER's Christianity OBAMA & Hindu Fundamentalists
Please note that portions of the post appended below have been plagiarized from websites such as the following: http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhitlernazigermany/Adolf_Hitler_Nazi_Germany_Christian_Nationalism_AntiSemitism.htm Cheers, Santosh --- On Mon, 8/23/10, M D wrote: > > Christians around the world seem to > be completely unaware of the degree to > which Christians in Germany threw their support behind > Adolf Hitler and the > Nazi Party and how the Nazis mixed religion with > government, and the support > for Hitler by the Protestant and Catholic Churches in > Germany. And > Christians around the world seem to be unaware as to why > the middle/upper > class hindus have thrown their support behind Hindu > fundamentalists. > . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Goa-launch of the well-received *Into The Diaspora Wilderness* by Selma Carvalho on Aug 29, 2010 (Sunday) at 11 am at Ravindra Bhavan, Margao. Meet the author, buy a signed copy (only Rs 295 in Goa till stock lasts). http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
Re: [Goanet] Medjugorje Visions Proven Not A Deception
--- On Tue, 8/24/10, Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão wrote: > > RESPONSE > : Mr. Santosh Helekar makes it obvious that he is either > ignorant in the latest > developments in the medical science field or likes to > just blow his trumpet under delusions. I > would request him to go to this site, read carefully what > EEG can detect. Or > may be the argument will be that the site is a fake. > > http://www.brainwavescience.com/Chemistry.php > If Dr. dos Reis Falcao thinks he knows so much about the latest developments in medical science from the above company website, then why did he ask for input from others on Goanet? Please note, first of all, that the procedure being sold on the above company website is not simple EEG. It involves what is called event-related potentials (ERP) that are derived by computer averaging of EEG, and require specific neuropsychological protocols to be implemented in a properly controlled setting. This procedure or any other similar procedure was not, and could not be, used in the so-called scientific studies on Medjugorje visions. Those who understand the technical details of the procedure would know exactly why. But even if they were somehow applied to the visions, I know that the procedures of the type being sold on the above website are at best of extremely limited value in detecting deception, and no value at all in detecting self-deception. Indeed, the U.S. National Academy of Sciences has roundly criticized all the so-called lie detection methods using polygraphy, EEG and ERP, stating that the evidence for their validity is not very strong, and that they are based on low quality science. Here is the link to that NAS report entitled "THE POLYGRAPH AND LIE DETECTION": http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309084369 Here are pertinent quotes from the summary statement in it: QUOTE The general quality of the evidence for judging polygraph validity is relatively low: the substantial majority of the studies most relevant for this purpose were below the quality level typically needed for funding by the National Science Foundation or the National Institutes of Health. UNQUOTE ...National Academy of Sciences QUOTE Some potential alternatives to the polygraph show promise, but none has yet been shown to outperform the polygraph. None shows any promise of supplanting the polygraph for screening purposes in the near term. UNQUOTE National Academy of Sciences The second statement refers specifically to alternative procedures such as the one described in the above company website. Cheers, Santosh * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Goa-launch of the well-received *Into The Diaspora Wilderness* by Selma Carvalho on Aug 29, 2010 (Sunday) at 11 am at Ravindra Bhavan, Margao. Meet the author, buy a signed copy (only Rs 295 in Goa till stock lasts). http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
Re: [Goanet] A request to all active contributors to Goanet
n though I had no > direct correspondence with him. > > You can add any additional points to the above list and see > for yourself whether there is room for violations in the > name of research. > > And now, some more answers to Helekar's nonsense below: > > > --- On Fri, 8/20/10, Santosh Helekar > wrote: > > > From: Santosh Helekar > > Subject: Re: [Goanet] A request to all active > contributors to Goanet > > To: " estb. 1994!Goa's premiere mailing list" > > Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 10:53 AM > > ... > > ... > Helekar wrote: > > This is a blatant falsehood. I removed Fernandes' name > from > > the cc list as soon as he announced that he did not > want to > > be on it. My first cced post to him on that list was > on July > > 2nd and my last cced post to him was on July 5th. So > it is > > exactly 3 days, not "a month or more" as he claims. As > far > > as his receiving emails from others in other threads > which > > were cced to me, is concerned, I can see that the last > email > > by others was on July 25th, so again Fernandes is > > deliberately deceiving Goanetters, even on that front. > > > > My response: > So finally, Helekar admits that he/his SPAM buddies were > dumping their unwanted crap on me - not for a month or more > (as I stated earlier) - but from Jul 2nd to Jul 25th - > that's still 23 days! > > I shouldn't have to take any crap from any other list to > which I did not subscribe to, for even a single day - let > alone for 23 days! Period. > > Helekar wrote: > > In that time we received the most filthy and > obnoxious > > email on that mailing list from Fernandes, and public > > threats against me on Goanet, as well as against > another > > Goanetter on that list. > > My response: > Helekar got away lucky with just obnoxious emails on that > list. Helekar fails to realize that he has to blame himself > for this flare-up. After writing several polite emails to > stop their SPAM with no desired effect, I had to resort to > my 'Third Degree French'. Ironically that is what really > worked after 23 days! > > Helekar wrote: > > Any sensible Goanetter would realize exactly where > the > > problem and blame lie in this case. > > > My response: > That is absolutely true - the blame falls on Helekar. Did I > initiate taking GoaNet emails outside the list and began > SPAMMING Helekar? > > Absolutely not. > > In fact Helekar took the liberty to do what he wanted with > my email ID and include it in his favorite SPAM list where > members do not understand the meaning of excluding one's > emails when politely requested to be removed. > > Jim F > New York. > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Goa-launch of the well-received *Into The Diaspora Wilderness* by Selma Carvalho on Aug 29, 2010 (Sunday) at 11 am at Ravindra Bhavan, Margao. Meet the author, buy a signed copy (only Rs 295 in Goa till stock lasts). http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/
Re: [Goanet] Fixing Cholesterol without meds
The Huffington Post article linked below contains misleading information regarding cholesterol and cholesterol lowering drugs. Please see the following link provided by the American Heart Association for accurate information: http://tinyurl.com/GoanetCorrection4 Cheers, Santosh On 30 January 2011 01:01, Gilbert Lawrence wrote: > > > Fixing Cholesterol without medications! > > Please see link below. > > Any comments, please direct to author of the article. > > > > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/lower-cholesterol-naturally_b_815393.html > > > > > > Regards, GL > >
Re: [Goanet] Regurgitating Historical Facts on Goa
I too am interested in knowing which book Gilbert is reading for his revisionist account of Goan history. Cheers, Santosh --- On Tue, 2/1/11, icso...@bsnl.in wrote: > > Gilbert Lawrence > wrote: > Recently I have been reading a number of regurgitated > historical facts about > early Portuguese history in Goa. In interest of full > disclosure, I have > myself reproduced some of these statistics in my writing. > But here is a very > short list of recent Goanet posts with 'accurately' > regurgitated facts and > figures of Goa. > Adv. (former MLA) Uday Bhembre > Fr. Ivo De Souza > Benedito Ferrao > > So how accurate is reported historical data? > > **Dear Dr.Gilbert, > Thank you for your intervention. I know that you have > interest in historical topics. > I am myself writing articles on Goa, pre-portuguese and > post-portuguese, on reviews. I have published already on > Evangelization of Salsete (Raia). I would be glad to receive > from you any article or book that might help me to be more > objective in my historical data and inferences. I am leaning > on the data that have been accessible to me. As you know, it > is a very complex topic. But we need more studies on this > topic. > Regards. > Fr.Ivo >
Re: [Goanet] It is official! Mobile phones, towers and base stations hazardous!
Here is accurate information from responsible public health organizations, namely World Health Organization, U. S. FDA, U. S. National Cancer Institute and American Cancer Society regarding lack of reproducible evidence for any harm caused by mobile phones and mobile phone towers: http://tinyurl.com/GoanetMobileDeCrap1 http://tinyurl.com/GoanetMobileDeCrap2 http://tinyurl.com/GoanetMobileDeCrap3 http://tinyurl.com/GoanetMobileDeCrap4 Cheers, Santosh --- On Thu, 2/3/11, Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão wrote: > > > http://www.rxpgonline.com/postp1056355.html > > Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão. >
Re: [Goanet] It is official! Mobile phones, towers and base stations hazardous!
Here is a news item in "Science", one of the world's most prestigious science journals, expressing bafflement over this inexplicable bureaucratic Indian government report in the face of lack of scientific evidence for any harm caused by mobile phones and towers to human beings of any nationality or in any climate: http://tinyurl.com/GoanetMobileDeCrap5 The title of this news item is "Indian Report, at Odds With Mainstream, Raises Mobile Phone Concerns". Here is an excerpt from it: QUOTE In a report that departs from the scientific mainstream, an Indian government panel is warning that radio emissions from cell phones may pose a hazard to public health. One member of the group has written that Indians may be more vulnerable to such radiation than Europeans because they live in a tropical climate and, on average, have a lower body fat content. These views contrast with an exhaustive review by the World Health Organization that concluded last year: "To date, no adverse health effects have been established for mobile phone use." UNQUOTE An exhaustive search of the peer-reviewed medical literature reveals no evidence whatsoever for the claims of link between tropical climate or lower body fat content with any kind of harm due to mobile phones or mobile phone towers. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 2/5/11, Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão wrote: > > > COMMENT : I quote from news reports all over India > > http://in.news.yahoo.com/it%E2%80%99s-official--mobile-radiation-is-dangerous.html > >.. > > Santosh would do well to Petition the President of India > demanding > that his views be taken into consideration before the > Government of India draws > any scientific conclusions. And that scientist R. S. Sharma > from ICMR be sent > for training under Santosh. > > > Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão. >
Re: [Goanet] The cup runneth over
There is a lot of truth to what Rajan is saying below. Popular journalists and most readers have a hard time understanding what constitutes genuine achievement in science. I have found that they are unable to appreciate what motivates a person to pursue original scientific research as a lifelong career. They have no clue that real science is a creative endeavor akin to art and music. They are terrible at recognizing scientific creativity even when it is pointed out to them. They only value high administrative positions held in government, university or business by people who had done some science at one time in their lives, or worse, published a scientific sounding popular book or article on a political website such as Huffington Post. Another currency of scientific accomplishment for them is such a worthless triviality as an association with a dignitary or a celebrity. Very few adults will be able to appreciate what Feynman and Hoyle are discussing in Rajan's YouTube video, or the significance of Feynman's "I take it all back". Hopefully, some of their young ones will. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 2/5/11, Rajan P. Parrikar wrote: > > #3 - A govt ad for the Kosambi lecture series touts RA > Mashelkar as an > "eminent scientist." There is even a picture of him > with Queen Elizabeth > worthy of cricket or film celebrities. Colour me > unimpressed by > Shri Mashelkar. If the Goa govt had asked me, I would > have proposed > Professor Vasudev Kenkre of the University of New > Mexico. But then, > that would have meant they would have to call someone who > has > actually done science - a genuine man. > > The lead ad line says, "Yes! one day you can also be a > fellow of the > Royal Society of London !!! Get inspired by listening to > blah blah..." > > If you want to inspire a young boy or girl to undertake > scientific work, > you don't dangle the carrot of the Royal Society, or throw > in a picture > of you posing with a wrinkled old Brit gal. How about > actually exposing > young minds to scientific ideas? Novel idea, I know. > > My advice to the young folks - forget Mashelkar. Go > out and play. > Or dig into the new KFC chicken in St Inez. If > inspiration is what > you seek, and you need to know what it is that constitutes > > excellence (in any field), then spare 5 minutes for this - > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvqwm6RbxcQ&feature=channel > > In particular, listen carefully to what happens at 4:15 > when he says > "I take it all back." > > > r >
Re: [Goanet] It is official! Mobile phones, towers and base stations hazardous!
I request Ferdinando to kindly not offer quack diagnosis of medical conditions on Goanet. It is not the ethical thing to do for a physician. This has nothing to do with the fact that he is not a qualified medical expert in the field in question. Speaking of expertise, none of the ministers, bureaucrats and scientists who were members of the Indian government panel issuing the mobile phone report, is an expert on health effects of radio frequency electromagnetic waves in humans. None of them has ever conducted and published a research study on this specific subject. In science you cannot become an expert simply by reading books and articles that other people have written. Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 2/5/11, Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão wrote: > > COMMENT : If according to Bosco’s > perspective, Santosh is likely to not be an expert in RF > radiation, may I ask > Bosco why has Santosh refuted claims by an > inter-ministerial committee on the > above subject? Or is Bosco trying to say there is > ‘Obsessive-compulsive > neurosis’ that makes one refute any claims that are > posted on Goanet even if > one is not an expert in the field? I am non-plussed at > Bosco’s ability for > making correct diagnoses! > > Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão. >
