Re: [gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[Colin Alworth]

I've gone ahead and submitted the patches for this work, and have a build 
available (either for maven or just a plain zip download) to test this out, 
along with other features. I only removed explicit references to IE8, 9, 
and 10, as some other code was a bit vague in how it might be used. As IE11 
is still technically supported for a while, and as it behaves as though it 
is a firefox permutation from GWT's perspective, I didn't put any effort at 
this time into removing it.
There are two prerequisite merges that have to happen for this to land:

   - First we need to update the gwt apichecker reference jars 
   https://github.com/gwtproject/tools/pull/22
   - Next, we need to update GWT to use these new reference jars, and 
   account for some api changes since 2.9 that already exist 
   https://gwt-review.googlesource.com/c/gwt/+/23680


Once those are merged, IE 8/9/10 can be removed 
https://gwt-review.googlesource.com/c/gwt/+/23760

As a follow-up, java.util.Date can be substantially more efficient in both 
gwt and j2cl https://gwt-review.googlesource.com/c/gwt/+/23761

See https://github.com/niloc132/gwt/actions/runs/1369212299 for build log 
and artifacts of only these patches. For maven artifacts, use the 
https://repo.vertispan.com/gwt-snapshot/ repository, and specify gwt 
version 2.10.0-htmlunit-upgrade-SNAPSHOT, this build contains other fixes 
as well such as dropping Java7 support, upgrading to latest Jetty 9, and 
upgrading to latest htmlunit.

Community reviewers who have the ability to approve/+2 patches don't seem 
to be available right now, so I request that anyone who tries out these 
patches or builds also look through the code and give a +1 comment or 
review at the links above. I've received private confirmation from several 
individuals and teams that these patches work as expected, but comments to 
that effect on the patches will help to move this forward.

On Tuesday, October 12, 2021 at 3:24:38 AM UTC-5 rdeang...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> +1 for dropping support for all IE versions (8-10)
> Jens schrieb am Mittwoch, 6. Oktober 2021 um 10:22:50 UTC+2:
>
>> I think the gecko permutation has very little to no special treatment of 
>> IE 11 and there are some bugs reported because of that. So there isn't much 
>> to deprecated for IE 11. 
>>
>> Personally I only use safari, gecko permutation and define safari as 
>> fallback permutation. In addition I use some code to check runtime vs 
>> compile time user agent and if they are different display a warning that 
>> some things might not work. That warning basically triggers for any exotic 
>> user-agent and any IE below 11.
>>
>> Dropping all IE permutations (8-10) should be totally fine I guess. 
>> Especially because the new, smaller GWT modules only care about IE 11 (if 
>> at all). gwt-dom for example has only two checks for safari and everything 
>> else is treated the same.
>>
>> -- J.
>>
>> ManfredTremmel schrieb am Montag, 4. Oktober 2021 um 11:07:11 UTC+2:
>>
>>> Am Donnerstag, 30. September 2021, 18:49:56 CEST schrieb Colin Alworth: 
>>>
>>> > So, is there any objection at this time to dropping what remains of 
>>> IE8, 
>>> > IE9, and IE10 support from GWT? Then, we can reevaluate IE11 at some 
>>> later 
>>> > date, for GWT itself? Various migrated GWT modules have focused their 
>>> > efforts on well-supported browsers, and are likely to only support 
>>> IE11 by 
>>> > accident anyway. 
>>>
>>> Let's drop the IE-Permutations. IE11 uses the gecko permutation, so no 
>>> need to 
>>> drop it. In my newer projects, I only use safari permutation for all 
>>> browsers, 
>>> so even dropping all browser specific permutations wouldn't affect me. 
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[Rocco De Angelis]

+1 for dropping support for all IE versions (8-10)
Jens schrieb am Mittwoch, 6. Oktober 2021 um 10:22:50 UTC+2:

> I think the gecko permutation has very little to no special treatment of 
> IE 11 and there are some bugs reported because of that. So there isn't much 
> to deprecated for IE 11. 
>
> Personally I only use safari, gecko permutation and define safari as 
> fallback permutation. In addition I use some code to check runtime vs 
> compile time user agent and if they are different display a warning that 
> some things might not work. That warning basically triggers for any exotic 
> user-agent and any IE below 11.
>
> Dropping all IE permutations (8-10) should be totally fine I guess. 
> Especially because the new, smaller GWT modules only care about IE 11 (if 
> at all). gwt-dom for example has only two checks for safari and everything 
> else is treated the same.
>
> -- J.
>
> ManfredTremmel schrieb am Montag, 4. Oktober 2021 um 11:07:11 UTC+2:
>
>> Am Donnerstag, 30. September 2021, 18:49:56 CEST schrieb Colin Alworth: 
>>
>> > So, is there any objection at this time to dropping what remains of 
>> IE8, 
>> > IE9, and IE10 support from GWT? Then, we can reevaluate IE11 at some 
>> later 
>> > date, for GWT itself? Various migrated GWT modules have focused their 
>> > efforts on well-supported browsers, and are likely to only support IE11 
>> by 
>> > accident anyway. 
>>
>> Let's drop the IE-Permutations. IE11 uses the gecko permutation, so no 
>> need to 
>> drop it. In my newer projects, I only use safari permutation for all 
>> browsers, 
>> so even dropping all browser specific permutations wouldn't affect me. 
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[Jens]

I think the gecko permutation has very little to no special treatment of IE 
11 and there are some bugs reported because of that. So there isn't much to 
deprecated for IE 11. 

Personally I only use safari, gecko permutation and define safari as 
fallback permutation. In addition I use some code to check runtime vs 
compile time user agent and if they are different display a warning that 
some things might not work. That warning basically triggers for any exotic 
user-agent and any IE below 11.

Dropping all IE permutations (8-10) should be totally fine I guess. 
Especially because the new, smaller GWT modules only care about IE 11 (if 
at all). gwt-dom for example has only two checks for safari and everything 
else is treated the same.

-- J.

ManfredTremmel schrieb am Montag, 4. Oktober 2021 um 11:07:11 UTC+2:

> Am Donnerstag, 30. September 2021, 18:49:56 CEST schrieb Colin Alworth:
>
> > So, is there any objection at this time to dropping what remains of IE8,
> > IE9, and IE10 support from GWT? Then, we can reevaluate IE11 at some 
> later
> > date, for GWT itself? Various migrated GWT modules have focused their
> > efforts on well-supported browsers, and are likely to only support IE11 
> by
> > accident anyway.
>
> Let's drop the IE-Permutations. IE11 uses the gecko permutation, so no 
> need to 
> drop it. In my newer projects, I only use safari permutation for all 
> browsers, 
> so even dropping all browser specific permutations wouldn't affect me.
>
>
>

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Re: [gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[Manfred Tremmel]

Am Donnerstag, 30. September 2021, 18:49:56 CEST schrieb Colin Alworth:

> So, is there any objection at this time to dropping what remains of IE8,
> IE9, and IE10 support from GWT? Then, we can reevaluate IE11 at some later
> date, for GWT itself? Various migrated GWT modules have focused their
> efforts on well-supported browsers, and are likely to only support IE11 by
> accident anyway.

Let's drop the IE-Permutations. IE11 uses the gecko permutation, so no need to 
drop it. In my newer projects, I only use safari permutation for all browsers, 
so even dropping all browser specific permutations wouldn't affect me.


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Re: [gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[Alberto Mancini]

+1 for dropping support for all IE versions.

Thanks.

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 8:32 PM mcmi...@gmail.com  wrote:

> +1 for remove IE
> If really needed deprecate IE11 elso drop full IE versions
>
> miha...@gmail.com schrieb am Freitag, 1. Oktober 2021 um 08:15:26 UTC+2:
>
>> My preference would still be to keep IE11, for one more year, if possible.
>>
>> https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/05/19/the-future-of-internet-explorer-on-windows-10-is-in-microsoft-edge/
>> MS official suport ends on June 15, 2022.
>>
>> Is there some new feature to be added, into GWT core that require removal
>> of IE11?
>>
>> +1 removal of  ie8-10.
>> +1 deprecate ie11 for gwt 2.10
>>
>> On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 7:49:56 PM UTC+3 nilo...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've just filed https://github.com/gwtproject/gwt/issues/9739, where a
>>> workaround exists in java.util.Date that nearly doubles the time it takes
>>> to parse date strings and build date objects. This workaround exists for
>>> IE8 and IE9, as all more recent browsers implement the same behavior as we
>>> already would expect. Dropping support for those two browsers would
>>> simplify the code required here
>>>
>>> From the age of this thread and the discussion so far, it sounds like
>>> there is interest in keeping IE11 still, but no one has spoke up about IE10
>>> or below.
>>>
>>> Additionally, java.util.Random emulation was changed to require
>>> Date.now(), which isn't available in IE8, so neither GWT 2.8.2 nor GWT
>>> 2.9.0 are apparently compatible with IE8 anyway, at least in this small
>>> way. This should give us some confidence (along with the lack of opposition
>>> in this thread) that at least IE8 is definitely safe to drop.
>>>
>>> So, is there any objection at this time to dropping what remains of IE8,
>>> IE9, and IE10 support from GWT? Then, we can reevaluate IE11 at some later
>>> date, for GWT itself? Various migrated GWT modules have focused their
>>> efforts on well-supported browsers, and are likely to only support IE11 by
>>> accident anyway.
>>>
>>> On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 1:20:02 AM UTC-6 stuckagain wrote:
>>>
 We still need IE11 support in the banking sector. We still have a
 majority of customers that use IE11 due to technical reasons (plugins
 needed for accessing secure token don’t install properly in Chrome without
 internet access amongst others).

 What do you mean with “next version of GWT” if that is 3.x then I don’t
 care at this point. We have been waiting for that release for a few years
 now. But 2.x releases should not drop IE11 support it is supposed to be a
 long-term supported version.
 On 12 Mar 2021, 07:54 +0100, bernhar...@schubec.com <
 bernhar...@schubec.com>, wrote:

 Hi all!

 I think IE11 support should be dropped soon if it blocks (or makes it
 difficult) to implement new features in the next version of GWT.
 I understand, that there are enterprises who still use IE11 internally,
 but developers who service such enterprises should use the current version
 of GWT, which is not going away. Nobody is forced to upgrade to the next
 version of GWT.

 Thanks,
 Berni

 tony.be...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. März 2021 um 22:26:21
 UTC+1:

> IE 11 is still widely used inside corporations, because it is the only
> browser that supports Java applets, and applications such as Oracle
> e-Business Suite still use applets extensively (for Oracle forms). While
> that segment does not move very fast, it does not mean other unrelated
> groups within the same corporation are not updating GWT regularly. It is
> hard to generalize In a multinational company  with tens of thousands of
> employees.
>
> Regards
>
> Tony
>
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 9:49 AM Jens  wrote:
>
>> Dropping IE 8-10 shouldn't really hurt. Companies that require it are
>> probably not upgrading GWT in a fast pace anyways.
>>
>> However I wouldn't drop IE 11 anytime soon. IE 11 itself is tied to
>> the lifecycle of Microsoft's operating systems, which means for Windows 
>> 10
>> it is supported until 2025 (for now). So just because MS and Google drop
>> support for IE 11 in some/all of their products, the browser itself is
>> still generally supported by MS. So we should think twice before removing
>> IE 11 from a library such as GWT, even if it means to decline/revert
>> certain commits if they break IE 11. From own experience I have usually
>> seen something around 8% of IE 11 usage in GWT based apps.
>>
>> However I am pretty sure more and more companies will announce
>> dropping IE 11 this year or next year. With MS and Google starting, this
>> could easily have a domino effect. However GWT also also strongly used
>> internally inside companies so it might not have that much of an effect 
>> in

Re: [gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[mcmi...@gmail.com]

+1 for remove IE
If really needed deprecate IE11 elso drop full IE versions

miha...@gmail.com schrieb am Freitag, 1. Oktober 2021 um 08:15:26 UTC+2:

> My preference would still be to keep IE11, for one more year, if possible.
>
> https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/05/19/the-future-of-internet-explorer-on-windows-10-is-in-microsoft-edge/
> MS official suport ends on June 15, 2022.
>
> Is there some new feature to be added, into GWT core that require removal 
> of IE11?
>
> +1 removal of  ie8-10.
> +1 deprecate ie11 for gwt 2.10
>
> On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 7:49:56 PM UTC+3 nilo...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I've just filed https://github.com/gwtproject/gwt/issues/9739, where a 
>> workaround exists in java.util.Date that nearly doubles the time it takes 
>> to parse date strings and build date objects. This workaround exists for 
>> IE8 and IE9, as all more recent browsers implement the same behavior as we 
>> already would expect. Dropping support for those two browsers would 
>> simplify the code required here
>>
>> From the age of this thread and the discussion so far, it sounds like 
>> there is interest in keeping IE11 still, but no one has spoke up about IE10 
>> or below. 
>>
>> Additionally, java.util.Random emulation was changed to require 
>> Date.now(), which isn't available in IE8, so neither GWT 2.8.2 nor GWT 
>> 2.9.0 are apparently compatible with IE8 anyway, at least in this small 
>> way. This should give us some confidence (along with the lack of opposition 
>> in this thread) that at least IE8 is definitely safe to drop.
>>
>> So, is there any objection at this time to dropping what remains of IE8, 
>> IE9, and IE10 support from GWT? Then, we can reevaluate IE11 at some later 
>> date, for GWT itself? Various migrated GWT modules have focused their 
>> efforts on well-supported browsers, and are likely to only support IE11 by 
>> accident anyway.
>>
>> On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 1:20:02 AM UTC-6 stuckagain wrote:
>>
>>> We still need IE11 support in the banking sector. We still have a 
>>> majority of customers that use IE11 due to technical reasons (plugins 
>>> needed for accessing secure token don’t install properly in Chrome without 
>>> internet access amongst others).
>>>
>>> What do you mean with “next version of GWT” if that is 3.x then I don’t 
>>> care at this point. We have been waiting for that release for a few years 
>>> now. But 2.x releases should not drop IE11 support it is supposed to be a 
>>> long-term supported version.
>>> On 12 Mar 2021, 07:54 +0100, bernhar...@schubec.com <
>>> bernhar...@schubec.com>, wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all! 
>>>
>>> I think IE11 support should be dropped soon if it blocks (or makes it 
>>> difficult) to implement new features in the next version of GWT.
>>> I understand, that there are enterprises who still use IE11 internally, 
>>> but developers who service such enterprises should use the current version 
>>> of GWT, which is not going away. Nobody is forced to upgrade to the next 
>>> version of GWT.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Berni 
>>>
>>> tony.be...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. März 2021 um 22:26:21 
>>> UTC+1:
>>>
 IE 11 is still widely used inside corporations, because it is the only 
 browser that supports Java applets, and applications such as Oracle 
 e-Business Suite still use applets extensively (for Oracle forms). While 
 that segment does not move very fast, it does not mean other unrelated 
 groups within the same corporation are not updating GWT regularly. It is 
 hard to generalize In a multinational company  with tens of thousands of 
 employees. 

 Regards

 Tony

 On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 9:49 AM Jens  wrote:

> Dropping IE 8-10 shouldn't really hurt. Companies that require it are 
> probably not upgrading GWT in a fast pace anyways.
>
> However I wouldn't drop IE 11 anytime soon. IE 11 itself is tied to 
> the lifecycle of Microsoft's operating systems, which means for Windows 
> 10 
> it is supported until 2025 (for now). So just because MS and Google drop 
> support for IE 11 in some/all of their products, the browser itself is 
> still generally supported by MS. So we should think twice before removing 
> IE 11 from a library such as GWT, even if it means to decline/revert 
> certain commits if they break IE 11. From own experience I have usually 
> seen something around 8% of IE 11 usage in GWT based apps. 
>
> However I am pretty sure more and more companies will announce 
> dropping IE 11 this year or next year. With MS and Google starting, this 
> could easily have a domino effect. However GWT also also strongly used 
> internally inside companies so it might not have that much of an effect 
> in 
> that area.
>
> If we ditch IE 8-10 and only leaving gecko1_8 and safari, can't we 
> kill them both as well and put them together? Are there so many 

Re: [gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[miha...@gmail.com]

My preference would still be to keep IE11, for one more year, if possible.
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2021/05/19/the-future-of-internet-explorer-on-windows-10-is-in-microsoft-edge/
MS official suport ends on June 15, 2022.

Is there some new feature to be added, into GWT core that require removal 
of IE11?

+1 removal of  ie8-10.
+1 deprecate ie11 for gwt 2.10

On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 7:49:56 PM UTC+3 nilo...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've just filed https://github.com/gwtproject/gwt/issues/9739, where a 
> workaround exists in java.util.Date that nearly doubles the time it takes 
> to parse date strings and build date objects. This workaround exists for 
> IE8 and IE9, as all more recent browsers implement the same behavior as we 
> already would expect. Dropping support for those two browsers would 
> simplify the code required here
>
> From the age of this thread and the discussion so far, it sounds like 
> there is interest in keeping IE11 still, but no one has spoke up about IE10 
> or below. 
>
> Additionally, java.util.Random emulation was changed to require 
> Date.now(), which isn't available in IE8, so neither GWT 2.8.2 nor GWT 
> 2.9.0 are apparently compatible with IE8 anyway, at least in this small 
> way. This should give us some confidence (along with the lack of opposition 
> in this thread) that at least IE8 is definitely safe to drop.
>
> So, is there any objection at this time to dropping what remains of IE8, 
> IE9, and IE10 support from GWT? Then, we can reevaluate IE11 at some later 
> date, for GWT itself? Various migrated GWT modules have focused their 
> efforts on well-supported browsers, and are likely to only support IE11 by 
> accident anyway.
>
> On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 1:20:02 AM UTC-6 stuckagain wrote:
>
>> We still need IE11 support in the banking sector. We still have a 
>> majority of customers that use IE11 due to technical reasons (plugins 
>> needed for accessing secure token don’t install properly in Chrome without 
>> internet access amongst others).
>>
>> What do you mean with “next version of GWT” if that is 3.x then I don’t 
>> care at this point. We have been waiting for that release for a few years 
>> now. But 2.x releases should not drop IE11 support it is supposed to be a 
>> long-term supported version.
>> On 12 Mar 2021, 07:54 +0100, bernhar...@schubec.com <
>> bernhar...@schubec.com>, wrote:
>>
>> Hi all! 
>>
>> I think IE11 support should be dropped soon if it blocks (or makes it 
>> difficult) to implement new features in the next version of GWT.
>> I understand, that there are enterprises who still use IE11 internally, 
>> but developers who service such enterprises should use the current version 
>> of GWT, which is not going away. Nobody is forced to upgrade to the next 
>> version of GWT.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Berni 
>>
>> tony.be...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. März 2021 um 22:26:21 
>> UTC+1:
>>
>>> IE 11 is still widely used inside corporations, because it is the only 
>>> browser that supports Java applets, and applications such as Oracle 
>>> e-Business Suite still use applets extensively (for Oracle forms). While 
>>> that segment does not move very fast, it does not mean other unrelated 
>>> groups within the same corporation are not updating GWT regularly. It is 
>>> hard to generalize In a multinational company  with tens of thousands of 
>>> employees. 
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 9:49 AM Jens  wrote:
>>>
 Dropping IE 8-10 shouldn't really hurt. Companies that require it are 
 probably not upgrading GWT in a fast pace anyways.

 However I wouldn't drop IE 11 anytime soon. IE 11 itself is tied to the 
 lifecycle of Microsoft's operating systems, which means for Windows 10 it 
 is supported until 2025 (for now). So just because MS and Google drop 
 support for IE 11 in some/all of their products, the browser itself is 
 still generally supported by MS. So we should think twice before removing 
 IE 11 from a library such as GWT, even if it means to decline/revert 
 certain commits if they break IE 11. From own experience I have usually 
 seen something around 8% of IE 11 usage in GWT based apps. 

 However I am pretty sure more and more companies will announce dropping 
 IE 11 this year or next year. With MS and Google starting, this could 
 easily have a domino effect. However GWT also also strongly used 
 internally 
 inside companies so it might not have that much of an effect in that area.

 If we ditch IE 8-10 and only leaving gecko1_8 and safari, can't we kill 
 them both as well and put them together? Are there so many differences in 
 code between both? From my work migrating GWT code to elemental2/JsInterop 
 I had the feeling that only some minor stuff is different between both. So 
 there shouldn't be that much overhead in code size and performance doing 
 (cached) runtime 

Re: [gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[David Nouls]

+1 for dropping support for ie8-10.

We still need to support IE11 in our app right now. But not for much longer. We 
are currently still compiling with 2.8.2 due to compilation issues with the 2.9 
release (issues with generics) so dropping IE11 is not a big issue as well.
On 30 Sep 2021, 18:49 +0200, Colin Alworth , wrote:
> I've just filed https://github.com/gwtproject/gwt/issues/9739, where a 
> workaround exists in java.util.Date that nearly doubles the time it takes to 
> parse date strings and build date objects. This workaround exists for IE8 and 
> IE9, as all more recent browsers implement the same behavior as we already 
> would expect. Dropping support for those two browsers would simplify the code 
> required here
>
> From the age of this thread and the discussion so far, it sounds like there 
> is interest in keeping IE11 still, but no one has spoke up about IE10 or 
> below.
>
> Additionally, java.util.Random emulation was changed to require Date.now(), 
> which isn't available in IE8, so neither GWT 2.8.2 nor GWT 2.9.0 are 
> apparently compatible with IE8 anyway, at least in this small way. This 
> should give us some confidence (along with the lack of opposition in this 
> thread) that at least IE8 is definitely safe to drop.
>
> So, is there any objection at this time to dropping what remains of IE8, IE9, 
> and IE10 support from GWT? Then, we can reevaluate IE11 at some later date, 
> for GWT itself? Various migrated GWT modules have focused their efforts on 
> well-supported browsers, and are likely to only support IE11 by accident 
> anyway.
>
> > On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 1:20:02 AM UTC-6 stuckagain wrote:
> > > We still need IE11 support in the banking sector. We still have a 
> > > majority of customers that use IE11 due to technical reasons (plugins 
> > > needed for accessing secure token don’t install properly in Chrome 
> > > without internet access amongst others).
> > >
> > > What do you mean with “next version of GWT” if that is 3.x then I don’t 
> > > care at this point. We have been waiting for that release for a few years 
> > > now. But 2.x releases should not drop IE11 support it is supposed to be a 
> > > long-term supported version.
> > > On 12 Mar 2021, 07:54 +0100, bernhar...@schubec.com 
> > > , wrote:
> > > > Hi all!
> > > >
> > > > I think IE11 support should be dropped soon if it blocks (or makes it 
> > > > difficult) to implement new features in the next version of GWT.
> > > > I understand, that there are enterprises who still use IE11 internally, 
> > > > but developers who service such enterprises should use the current 
> > > > version of GWT, which is not going away. Nobody is forced to upgrade to 
> > > > the next version of GWT.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Berni
> > > >
> > > > > tony.be...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. März 2021 um 22:26:21 
> > > > > UTC+1:
> > > > > > IE 11 is still widely used inside corporations, because it is the 
> > > > > > only browser that supports Java applets, and applications such as 
> > > > > > Oracle e-Business Suite still use applets extensively (for Oracle 
> > > > > > forms). While that segment does not move very fast, it does not 
> > > > > > mean other unrelated groups within the same corporation are not 
> > > > > > updating GWT regularly. It is hard to generalize In a multinational 
> > > > > > company  with tens of thousands of employees.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tony
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 9:49 AM Jens  wrote:
> > > > > > > > Dropping IE 8-10 shouldn't really hurt. Companies that require 
> > > > > > > > it are probably not upgrading GWT in a fast pace anyways.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > However I wouldn't drop IE 11 anytime soon. IE 11 itself is 
> > > > > > > > tied to the lifecycle of Microsoft's operating systems, which 
> > > > > > > > means for Windows 10 it is supported until 2025 (for now). So 
> > > > > > > > just because MS and Google drop support for IE 11 in some/all 
> > > > > > > > of their products, the browser itself is still generally 
> > > > > > > > supported by MS. So we should think twice before removing IE 11 
> > > > > > > > from a library such as GWT, even if it means to decline/revert 
> > > > > > > > certain commits if they break IE 11. From own experience I have 
> > > > > > > > usually seen something around 8% of IE 11 usage in GWT based 
> > > > > > > > apps.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > However I am pretty sure more and more companies will announce 
> > > > > > > > dropping IE 11 this year or next year. With MS and Google 
> > > > > > > > starting, this could easily have a domino effect. However GWT 
> > > > > > > > also also strongly used internally inside companies so it might 
> > > > > > > > not have that much of an effect in that area.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If we ditch IE 8-10 and only leaving gecko1_8 and safari, can't 
> > > > > > > > we kill them both as well and put them together? Are 

Re: [gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[Matt Davis]

+1 drop all i.e.

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 4:13 PM Juan Pablo Gardella <
gardellajuanpa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> +1 drop IE 11 increases the effort to include new stuff. IE +11 can still
> use GWT 2.9.0
>
> On Thu, 30 Sept 2021 at 16:55, Vegegoku  wrote:
>
>> I vote to even drop support for IE11.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 7:49:56 PM UTC+3 nilo...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've just filed https://github.com/gwtproject/gwt/issues/9739, where a
>>> workaround exists in java.util.Date that nearly doubles the time it takes
>>> to parse date strings and build date objects. This workaround exists for
>>> IE8 and IE9, as all more recent browsers implement the same behavior as we
>>> already would expect. Dropping support for those two browsers would
>>> simplify the code required here
>>>
>>> From the age of this thread and the discussion so far, it sounds like
>>> there is interest in keeping IE11 still, but no one has spoke up about IE10
>>> or below.
>>>
>>> Additionally, java.util.Random emulation was changed to require
>>> Date.now(), which isn't available in IE8, so neither GWT 2.8.2 nor GWT
>>> 2.9.0 are apparently compatible with IE8 anyway, at least in this small
>>> way. This should give us some confidence (along with the lack of opposition
>>> in this thread) that at least IE8 is definitely safe to drop.
>>>
>>> So, is there any objection at this time to dropping what remains of IE8,
>>> IE9, and IE10 support from GWT? Then, we can reevaluate IE11 at some later
>>> date, for GWT itself? Various migrated GWT modules have focused their
>>> efforts on well-supported browsers, and are likely to only support IE11 by
>>> accident anyway.
>>>
>>> On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 1:20:02 AM UTC-6 stuckagain wrote:
>>>
 We still need IE11 support in the banking sector. We still have a
 majority of customers that use IE11 due to technical reasons (plugins
 needed for accessing secure token don’t install properly in Chrome without
 internet access amongst others).

 What do you mean with “next version of GWT” if that is 3.x then I don’t
 care at this point. We have been waiting for that release for a few years
 now. But 2.x releases should not drop IE11 support it is supposed to be a
 long-term supported version.
 On 12 Mar 2021, 07:54 +0100, bernhar...@schubec.com <
 bernhar...@schubec.com>, wrote:

 Hi all!

 I think IE11 support should be dropped soon if it blocks (or makes it
 difficult) to implement new features in the next version of GWT.
 I understand, that there are enterprises who still use IE11 internally,
 but developers who service such enterprises should use the current version
 of GWT, which is not going away. Nobody is forced to upgrade to the next
 version of GWT.

 Thanks,
 Berni

 tony.be...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. März 2021 um 22:26:21
 UTC+1:

> IE 11 is still widely used inside corporations, because it is the only
> browser that supports Java applets, and applications such as Oracle
> e-Business Suite still use applets extensively (for Oracle forms). While
> that segment does not move very fast, it does not mean other unrelated
> groups within the same corporation are not updating GWT regularly. It is
> hard to generalize In a multinational company  with tens of thousands of
> employees.
>
> Regards
>
> Tony
>
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 9:49 AM Jens  wrote:
>
>> Dropping IE 8-10 shouldn't really hurt. Companies that require it are
>> probably not upgrading GWT in a fast pace anyways.
>>
>> However I wouldn't drop IE 11 anytime soon. IE 11 itself is tied to
>> the lifecycle of Microsoft's operating systems, which means for Windows 
>> 10
>> it is supported until 2025 (for now). So just because MS and Google drop
>> support for IE 11 in some/all of their products, the browser itself is
>> still generally supported by MS. So we should think twice before removing
>> IE 11 from a library such as GWT, even if it means to decline/revert
>> certain commits if they break IE 11. From own experience I have usually
>> seen something around 8% of IE 11 usage in GWT based apps.
>>
>> However I am pretty sure more and more companies will announce
>> dropping IE 11 this year or next year. With MS and Google starting, this
>> could easily have a domino effect. However GWT also also strongly used
>> internally inside companies so it might not have that much of an effect 
>> in
>> that area.
>>
>> If we ditch IE 8-10 and only leaving gecko1_8 and safari, can't we
>> kill them both as well and put them together? Are there so many 
>> differences
>> in code between both? From my work migrating GWT code to
>> elemental2/JsInterop I had the feeling that only some minor stuff is
>> different between both. So there shouldn't be that 

Re: [gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[Juan Pablo Gardella]

+1 drop IE 11 increases the effort to include new stuff. IE +11 can still
use GWT 2.9.0

On Thu, 30 Sept 2021 at 16:55, Vegegoku  wrote:

> I vote to even drop support for IE11.
>
> On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 7:49:56 PM UTC+3 nilo...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> I've just filed https://github.com/gwtproject/gwt/issues/9739, where a
>> workaround exists in java.util.Date that nearly doubles the time it takes
>> to parse date strings and build date objects. This workaround exists for
>> IE8 and IE9, as all more recent browsers implement the same behavior as we
>> already would expect. Dropping support for those two browsers would
>> simplify the code required here
>>
>> From the age of this thread and the discussion so far, it sounds like
>> there is interest in keeping IE11 still, but no one has spoke up about IE10
>> or below.
>>
>> Additionally, java.util.Random emulation was changed to require
>> Date.now(), which isn't available in IE8, so neither GWT 2.8.2 nor GWT
>> 2.9.0 are apparently compatible with IE8 anyway, at least in this small
>> way. This should give us some confidence (along with the lack of opposition
>> in this thread) that at least IE8 is definitely safe to drop.
>>
>> So, is there any objection at this time to dropping what remains of IE8,
>> IE9, and IE10 support from GWT? Then, we can reevaluate IE11 at some later
>> date, for GWT itself? Various migrated GWT modules have focused their
>> efforts on well-supported browsers, and are likely to only support IE11 by
>> accident anyway.
>>
>> On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 1:20:02 AM UTC-6 stuckagain wrote:
>>
>>> We still need IE11 support in the banking sector. We still have a
>>> majority of customers that use IE11 due to technical reasons (plugins
>>> needed for accessing secure token don’t install properly in Chrome without
>>> internet access amongst others).
>>>
>>> What do you mean with “next version of GWT” if that is 3.x then I don’t
>>> care at this point. We have been waiting for that release for a few years
>>> now. But 2.x releases should not drop IE11 support it is supposed to be a
>>> long-term supported version.
>>> On 12 Mar 2021, 07:54 +0100, bernhar...@schubec.com <
>>> bernhar...@schubec.com>, wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all!
>>>
>>> I think IE11 support should be dropped soon if it blocks (or makes it
>>> difficult) to implement new features in the next version of GWT.
>>> I understand, that there are enterprises who still use IE11 internally,
>>> but developers who service such enterprises should use the current version
>>> of GWT, which is not going away. Nobody is forced to upgrade to the next
>>> version of GWT.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Berni
>>>
>>> tony.be...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. März 2021 um 22:26:21
>>> UTC+1:
>>>
 IE 11 is still widely used inside corporations, because it is the only
 browser that supports Java applets, and applications such as Oracle
 e-Business Suite still use applets extensively (for Oracle forms). While
 that segment does not move very fast, it does not mean other unrelated
 groups within the same corporation are not updating GWT regularly. It is
 hard to generalize In a multinational company  with tens of thousands of
 employees.

 Regards

 Tony

 On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 9:49 AM Jens  wrote:

> Dropping IE 8-10 shouldn't really hurt. Companies that require it are
> probably not upgrading GWT in a fast pace anyways.
>
> However I wouldn't drop IE 11 anytime soon. IE 11 itself is tied to
> the lifecycle of Microsoft's operating systems, which means for Windows 10
> it is supported until 2025 (for now). So just because MS and Google drop
> support for IE 11 in some/all of their products, the browser itself is
> still generally supported by MS. So we should think twice before removing
> IE 11 from a library such as GWT, even if it means to decline/revert
> certain commits if they break IE 11. From own experience I have usually
> seen something around 8% of IE 11 usage in GWT based apps.
>
> However I am pretty sure more and more companies will announce
> dropping IE 11 this year or next year. With MS and Google starting, this
> could easily have a domino effect. However GWT also also strongly used
> internally inside companies so it might not have that much of an effect in
> that area.
>
> If we ditch IE 8-10 and only leaving gecko1_8 and safari, can't we
> kill them both as well and put them together? Are there so many 
> differences
> in code between both? From my work migrating GWT code to
> elemental2/JsInterop I had the feeling that only some minor stuff is
> different between both. So there shouldn't be that much overhead in code
> size and performance doing (cached) runtime checks instead.
>
> -- J.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "GWT Contributors" 

Re: [gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[Vegegoku]

I vote to even drop support for IE11. 

On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 7:49:56 PM UTC+3 nilo...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've just filed https://github.com/gwtproject/gwt/issues/9739, where a 
> workaround exists in java.util.Date that nearly doubles the time it takes 
> to parse date strings and build date objects. This workaround exists for 
> IE8 and IE9, as all more recent browsers implement the same behavior as we 
> already would expect. Dropping support for those two browsers would 
> simplify the code required here
>
> From the age of this thread and the discussion so far, it sounds like 
> there is interest in keeping IE11 still, but no one has spoke up about IE10 
> or below. 
>
> Additionally, java.util.Random emulation was changed to require 
> Date.now(), which isn't available in IE8, so neither GWT 2.8.2 nor GWT 
> 2.9.0 are apparently compatible with IE8 anyway, at least in this small 
> way. This should give us some confidence (along with the lack of opposition 
> in this thread) that at least IE8 is definitely safe to drop.
>
> So, is there any objection at this time to dropping what remains of IE8, 
> IE9, and IE10 support from GWT? Then, we can reevaluate IE11 at some later 
> date, for GWT itself? Various migrated GWT modules have focused their 
> efforts on well-supported browsers, and are likely to only support IE11 by 
> accident anyway.
>
> On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 1:20:02 AM UTC-6 stuckagain wrote:
>
>> We still need IE11 support in the banking sector. We still have a 
>> majority of customers that use IE11 due to technical reasons (plugins 
>> needed for accessing secure token don’t install properly in Chrome without 
>> internet access amongst others).
>>
>> What do you mean with “next version of GWT” if that is 3.x then I don’t 
>> care at this point. We have been waiting for that release for a few years 
>> now. But 2.x releases should not drop IE11 support it is supposed to be a 
>> long-term supported version.
>> On 12 Mar 2021, 07:54 +0100, bernhar...@schubec.com <
>> bernhar...@schubec.com>, wrote:
>>
>> Hi all! 
>>
>> I think IE11 support should be dropped soon if it blocks (or makes it 
>> difficult) to implement new features in the next version of GWT.
>> I understand, that there are enterprises who still use IE11 internally, 
>> but developers who service such enterprises should use the current version 
>> of GWT, which is not going away. Nobody is forced to upgrade to the next 
>> version of GWT.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Berni 
>>
>> tony.be...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. März 2021 um 22:26:21 
>> UTC+1:
>>
>>> IE 11 is still widely used inside corporations, because it is the only 
>>> browser that supports Java applets, and applications such as Oracle 
>>> e-Business Suite still use applets extensively (for Oracle forms). While 
>>> that segment does not move very fast, it does not mean other unrelated 
>>> groups within the same corporation are not updating GWT regularly. It is 
>>> hard to generalize In a multinational company  with tens of thousands of 
>>> employees. 
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 9:49 AM Jens  wrote:
>>>
 Dropping IE 8-10 shouldn't really hurt. Companies that require it are 
 probably not upgrading GWT in a fast pace anyways.

 However I wouldn't drop IE 11 anytime soon. IE 11 itself is tied to the 
 lifecycle of Microsoft's operating systems, which means for Windows 10 it 
 is supported until 2025 (for now). So just because MS and Google drop 
 support for IE 11 in some/all of their products, the browser itself is 
 still generally supported by MS. So we should think twice before removing 
 IE 11 from a library such as GWT, even if it means to decline/revert 
 certain commits if they break IE 11. From own experience I have usually 
 seen something around 8% of IE 11 usage in GWT based apps. 

 However I am pretty sure more and more companies will announce dropping 
 IE 11 this year or next year. With MS and Google starting, this could 
 easily have a domino effect. However GWT also also strongly used 
 internally 
 inside companies so it might not have that much of an effect in that area.

 If we ditch IE 8-10 and only leaving gecko1_8 and safari, can't we kill 
 them both as well and put them together? Are there so many differences in 
 code between both? From my work migrating GWT code to elemental2/JsInterop 
 I had the feeling that only some minor stuff is different between both. So 
 there shouldn't be that much overhead in code size and performance doing 
 (cached) runtime checks instead.

 -- J.

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "GWT Contributors" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
 an email to google-web-toolkit-co...@googlegroups.com.

>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 

Re: [gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[Colin Alworth]

Note that it appears I'm mistaken, Runtime.java polyfilled Date.now() 
(though code in JsDate and others still believed that this method might not 
exist), so GWT 2.8.2 and 2.9.0 likely function properly in IE8.

On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 11:49:56 AM UTC-5 Colin Alworth wrote:

> I've just filed https://github.com/gwtproject/gwt/issues/9739, where a 
> workaround exists in java.util.Date that nearly doubles the time it takes 
> to parse date strings and build date objects. This workaround exists for 
> IE8 and IE9, as all more recent browsers implement the same behavior as we 
> already would expect. Dropping support for those two browsers would 
> simplify the code required here
>
> From the age of this thread and the discussion so far, it sounds like 
> there is interest in keeping IE11 still, but no one has spoke up about IE10 
> or below. 
>
> Additionally, java.util.Random emulation was changed to require 
> Date.now(), which isn't available in IE8, so neither GWT 2.8.2 nor GWT 
> 2.9.0 are apparently compatible with IE8 anyway, at least in this small 
> way. This should give us some confidence (along with the lack of opposition 
> in this thread) that at least IE8 is definitely safe to drop.
>
> So, is there any objection at this time to dropping what remains of IE8, 
> IE9, and IE10 support from GWT? Then, we can reevaluate IE11 at some later 
> date, for GWT itself? Various migrated GWT modules have focused their 
> efforts on well-supported browsers, and are likely to only support IE11 by 
> accident anyway.
>
> On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 1:20:02 AM UTC-6 stuckagain wrote:
>
>> We still need IE11 support in the banking sector. We still have a 
>> majority of customers that use IE11 due to technical reasons (plugins 
>> needed for accessing secure token don’t install properly in Chrome without 
>> internet access amongst others).
>>
>> What do you mean with “next version of GWT” if that is 3.x then I don’t 
>> care at this point. We have been waiting for that release for a few years 
>> now. But 2.x releases should not drop IE11 support it is supposed to be a 
>> long-term supported version.
>> On 12 Mar 2021, 07:54 +0100, bernhar...@schubec.com <
>> bernhar...@schubec.com>, wrote:
>>
>> Hi all! 
>>
>> I think IE11 support should be dropped soon if it blocks (or makes it 
>> difficult) to implement new features in the next version of GWT.
>> I understand, that there are enterprises who still use IE11 internally, 
>> but developers who service such enterprises should use the current version 
>> of GWT, which is not going away. Nobody is forced to upgrade to the next 
>> version of GWT.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Berni 
>>
>> tony.be...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. März 2021 um 22:26:21 
>> UTC+1:
>>
>>> IE 11 is still widely used inside corporations, because it is the only 
>>> browser that supports Java applets, and applications such as Oracle 
>>> e-Business Suite still use applets extensively (for Oracle forms). While 
>>> that segment does not move very fast, it does not mean other unrelated 
>>> groups within the same corporation are not updating GWT regularly. It is 
>>> hard to generalize In a multinational company  with tens of thousands of 
>>> employees. 
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 9:49 AM Jens  wrote:
>>>
 Dropping IE 8-10 shouldn't really hurt. Companies that require it are 
 probably not upgrading GWT in a fast pace anyways.

 However I wouldn't drop IE 11 anytime soon. IE 11 itself is tied to the 
 lifecycle of Microsoft's operating systems, which means for Windows 10 it 
 is supported until 2025 (for now). So just because MS and Google drop 
 support for IE 11 in some/all of their products, the browser itself is 
 still generally supported by MS. So we should think twice before removing 
 IE 11 from a library such as GWT, even if it means to decline/revert 
 certain commits if they break IE 11. From own experience I have usually 
 seen something around 8% of IE 11 usage in GWT based apps. 

 However I am pretty sure more and more companies will announce dropping 
 IE 11 this year or next year. With MS and Google starting, this could 
 easily have a domino effect. However GWT also also strongly used 
 internally 
 inside companies so it might not have that much of an effect in that area.

 If we ditch IE 8-10 and only leaving gecko1_8 and safari, can't we kill 
 them both as well and put them together? Are there so many differences in 
 code between both? From my work migrating GWT code to elemental2/JsInterop 
 I had the feeling that only some minor stuff is different between both. So 
 there shouldn't be that much overhead in code size and performance doing 
 (cached) runtime checks instead.

 -- J.

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "GWT Contributors" group.
 To 

Re: [gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[Colin Alworth]

I've just filed https://github.com/gwtproject/gwt/issues/9739, where a 
workaround exists in java.util.Date that nearly doubles the time it takes 
to parse date strings and build date objects. This workaround exists for 
IE8 and IE9, as all more recent browsers implement the same behavior as we 
already would expect. Dropping support for those two browsers would 
simplify the code required here

>From the age of this thread and the discussion so far, it sounds like there 
is interest in keeping IE11 still, but no one has spoke up about IE10 or 
below. 

Additionally, java.util.Random emulation was changed to require Date.now(), 
which isn't available in IE8, so neither GWT 2.8.2 nor GWT 2.9.0 are 
apparently compatible with IE8 anyway, at least in this small way. This 
should give us some confidence (along with the lack of opposition in this 
thread) that at least IE8 is definitely safe to drop.

So, is there any objection at this time to dropping what remains of IE8, 
IE9, and IE10 support from GWT? Then, we can reevaluate IE11 at some later 
date, for GWT itself? Various migrated GWT modules have focused their 
efforts on well-supported browsers, and are likely to only support IE11 by 
accident anyway.

On Friday, March 12, 2021 at 1:20:02 AM UTC-6 stuckagain wrote:

> We still need IE11 support in the banking sector. We still have a majority 
> of customers that use IE11 due to technical reasons (plugins needed for 
> accessing secure token don’t install properly in Chrome without internet 
> access amongst others).
>
> What do you mean with “next version of GWT” if that is 3.x then I don’t 
> care at this point. We have been waiting for that release for a few years 
> now. But 2.x releases should not drop IE11 support it is supposed to be a 
> long-term supported version.
> On 12 Mar 2021, 07:54 +0100, bernhar...@schubec.com <
> bernhar...@schubec.com>, wrote:
>
> Hi all! 
>
> I think IE11 support should be dropped soon if it blocks (or makes it 
> difficult) to implement new features in the next version of GWT.
> I understand, that there are enterprises who still use IE11 internally, 
> but developers who service such enterprises should use the current version 
> of GWT, which is not going away. Nobody is forced to upgrade to the next 
> version of GWT.
>
> Thanks,
> Berni 
>
> tony.be...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. März 2021 um 22:26:21 
> UTC+1:
>
>> IE 11 is still widely used inside corporations, because it is the only 
>> browser that supports Java applets, and applications such as Oracle 
>> e-Business Suite still use applets extensively (for Oracle forms). While 
>> that segment does not move very fast, it does not mean other unrelated 
>> groups within the same corporation are not updating GWT regularly. It is 
>> hard to generalize In a multinational company  with tens of thousands of 
>> employees. 
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 9:49 AM Jens  wrote:
>>
>>> Dropping IE 8-10 shouldn't really hurt. Companies that require it are 
>>> probably not upgrading GWT in a fast pace anyways.
>>>
>>> However I wouldn't drop IE 11 anytime soon. IE 11 itself is tied to the 
>>> lifecycle of Microsoft's operating systems, which means for Windows 10 it 
>>> is supported until 2025 (for now). So just because MS and Google drop 
>>> support for IE 11 in some/all of their products, the browser itself is 
>>> still generally supported by MS. So we should think twice before removing 
>>> IE 11 from a library such as GWT, even if it means to decline/revert 
>>> certain commits if they break IE 11. From own experience I have usually 
>>> seen something around 8% of IE 11 usage in GWT based apps. 
>>>
>>> However I am pretty sure more and more companies will announce dropping 
>>> IE 11 this year or next year. With MS and Google starting, this could 
>>> easily have a domino effect. However GWT also also strongly used internally 
>>> inside companies so it might not have that much of an effect in that area.
>>>
>>> If we ditch IE 8-10 and only leaving gecko1_8 and safari, can't we kill 
>>> them both as well and put them together? Are there so many differences in 
>>> code between both? From my work migrating GWT code to elemental2/JsInterop 
>>> I had the feeling that only some minor stuff is different between both. So 
>>> there shouldn't be that much overhead in code size and performance doing 
>>> (cached) runtime checks instead.
>>>
>>> -- J.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "GWT Contributors" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to google-web-toolkit-co...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-web-toolkit-contributors/031f1171-cce9-4c17-b717-80bb5730f7fdn%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 

Re: [gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[David Nouls]

We still need IE11 support in the banking sector. We still have a majority of 
customers that use IE11 due to technical reasons (plugins needed for accessing 
secure token don’t install properly in Chrome without internet access amongst 
others).

What do you mean with “next version of GWT” if that is 3.x then I don’t care at 
this point. We have been waiting for that release for a few years now. But 2.x 
releases should not drop IE11 support it is supposed to be a long-term 
supported version.
On 12 Mar 2021, 07:54 +0100, bernhar...@schubec.com 
, wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> I think IE11 support should be dropped soon if it blocks (or makes it 
> difficult) to implement new features in the next version of GWT.
> I understand, that there are enterprises who still use IE11 internally, but 
> developers who service such enterprises should use the current version of 
> GWT, which is not going away. Nobody is forced to upgrade to the next version 
> of GWT.
>
> Thanks,
> Berni
>
> > tony.be...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. März 2021 um 22:26:21 UTC+1:
> > > IE 11 is still widely used inside corporations, because it is the only 
> > > browser that supports Java applets, and applications such as Oracle 
> > > e-Business Suite still use applets extensively (for Oracle forms). While 
> > > that segment does not move very fast, it does not mean other unrelated 
> > > groups within the same corporation are not updating GWT regularly. It is 
> > > hard to generalize In a multinational company  with tens of thousands of 
> > > employees.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Tony
> > >
> > > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 9:49 AM Jens  wrote:
> > > > > Dropping IE 8-10 shouldn't really hurt. Companies that require it are 
> > > > > probably not upgrading GWT in a fast pace anyways.
> > > > >
> > > > > However I wouldn't drop IE 11 anytime soon. IE 11 itself is tied to 
> > > > > the lifecycle of Microsoft's operating systems, which means for 
> > > > > Windows 10 it is supported until 2025 (for now). So just because MS 
> > > > > and Google drop support for IE 11 in some/all of their products, the 
> > > > > browser itself is still generally supported by MS. So we should think 
> > > > > twice before removing IE 11 from a library such as GWT, even if it 
> > > > > means to decline/revert certain commits if they break IE 11. From own 
> > > > > experience I have usually seen something around 8% of IE 11 usage in 
> > > > > GWT based apps.
> > > > >
> > > > > However I am pretty sure more and more companies will announce 
> > > > > dropping IE 11 this year or next year. With MS and Google starting, 
> > > > > this could easily have a domino effect. However GWT also also 
> > > > > strongly used internally inside companies so it might not have that 
> > > > > much of an effect in that area.
> > > > >
> > > > > If we ditch IE 8-10 and only leaving gecko1_8 and safari, can't we 
> > > > > kill them both as well and put them together? Are there so many 
> > > > > differences in code between both? From my work migrating GWT code to 
> > > > > elemental2/JsInterop I had the feeling that only some minor stuff is 
> > > > > different between both. So there shouldn't be that much overhead in 
> > > > > code size and performance doing (cached) runtime checks instead.
> > > > >
> > > > > -- J.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
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Re: [gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[bernhar...@schubec.com]

Hi all!

I think IE11 support should be dropped soon if it blocks (or makes it 
difficult) to implement new features in the next version of GWT.
I understand, that there are enterprises who still use IE11 internally, but 
developers who service such enterprises should use the current version of 
GWT, which is not going away. Nobody is forced to upgrade to the next 
version of GWT.

Thanks,
Berni 

tony.be...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 11. März 2021 um 22:26:21 UTC+1:

> IE 11 is still widely used inside corporations, because it is the only 
> browser that supports Java applets, and applications such as Oracle 
> e-Business Suite still use applets extensively (for Oracle forms). While 
> that segment does not move very fast, it does not mean other unrelated 
> groups within the same corporation are not updating GWT regularly. It is 
> hard to generalize In a multinational company  with tens of thousands of 
> employees.
>
> Regards
>
> Tony
>
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 9:49 AM Jens  wrote:
>
>> Dropping IE 8-10 shouldn't really hurt. Companies that require it are 
>> probably not upgrading GWT in a fast pace anyways.
>>
>> However I wouldn't drop IE 11 anytime soon. IE 11 itself is tied to the 
>> lifecycle of Microsoft's operating systems, which means for Windows 10 it 
>> is supported until 2025 (for now). So just because MS and Google drop 
>> support for IE 11 in some/all of their products, the browser itself is 
>> still generally supported by MS. So we should think twice before removing 
>> IE 11 from a library such as GWT, even if it means to decline/revert 
>> certain commits if they break IE 11. From own experience I have usually 
>> seen something around 8% of IE 11 usage in GWT based apps.
>>
>> However I am pretty sure more and more companies will announce dropping 
>> IE 11 this year or next year. With MS and Google starting, this could 
>> easily have a domino effect. However GWT also also strongly used internally 
>> inside companies so it might not have that much of an effect in that area.
>>
>> If we ditch IE 8-10 and only leaving gecko1_8 and safari, can't we kill 
>> them both as well and put them together? Are there so many differences in 
>> code between both? From my work migrating GWT code to elemental2/JsInterop 
>> I had the feeling that only some minor stuff is different between both. So 
>> there shouldn't be that much overhead in code size and performance doing 
>> (cached) runtime checks instead.
>>
>> -- J.
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "GWT Contributors" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to google-web-toolkit-co...@googlegroups.com.
>>
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-web-toolkit-contributors/031f1171-cce9-4c17-b717-80bb5730f7fdn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[Tony BenBrahim]

IE 11 is still widely used inside corporations, because it is the only
browser that supports Java applets, and applications such as Oracle
e-Business Suite still use applets extensively (for Oracle forms). While
that segment does not move very fast, it does not mean other unrelated
groups within the same corporation are not updating GWT regularly. It is
hard to generalize In a multinational company  with tens of thousands of
employees.

Regards

Tony

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 9:49 AM Jens  wrote:

> Dropping IE 8-10 shouldn't really hurt. Companies that require it are
> probably not upgrading GWT in a fast pace anyways.
>
> However I wouldn't drop IE 11 anytime soon. IE 11 itself is tied to the
> lifecycle of Microsoft's operating systems, which means for Windows 10 it
> is supported until 2025 (for now). So just because MS and Google drop
> support for IE 11 in some/all of their products, the browser itself is
> still generally supported by MS. So we should think twice before removing
> IE 11 from a library such as GWT, even if it means to decline/revert
> certain commits if they break IE 11. From own experience I have usually
> seen something around 8% of IE 11 usage in GWT based apps.
>
> However I am pretty sure more and more companies will announce dropping IE
> 11 this year or next year. With MS and Google starting, this could easily
> have a domino effect. However GWT also also strongly used internally inside
> companies so it might not have that much of an effect in that area.
>
> If we ditch IE 8-10 and only leaving gecko1_8 and safari, can't we kill
> them both as well and put them together? Are there so many differences in
> code between both? From my work migrating GWT code to elemental2/JsInterop
> I had the feeling that only some minor stuff is different between both. So
> there shouldn't be that much overhead in code size and performance doing
> (cached) runtime checks instead.
>
> -- J.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "GWT Contributors" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to google-web-toolkit-contributors+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-web-toolkit-contributors/031f1171-cce9-4c17-b717-80bb5730f7fdn%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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[gwt-contrib] Re: Goodbye IE 8–9 

[Jens]

Dropping IE 8-10 shouldn't really hurt. Companies that require it are 
probably not upgrading GWT in a fast pace anyways.

However I wouldn't drop IE 11 anytime soon. IE 11 itself is tied to the 
lifecycle of Microsoft's operating systems, which means for Windows 10 it 
is supported until 2025 (for now). So just because MS and Google drop 
support for IE 11 in some/all of their products, the browser itself is 
still generally supported by MS. So we should think twice before removing 
IE 11 from a library such as GWT, even if it means to decline/revert 
certain commits if they break IE 11. From own experience I have usually 
seen something around 8% of IE 11 usage in GWT based apps.

However I am pretty sure more and more companies will announce dropping IE 
11 this year or next year. With MS and Google starting, this could easily 
have a domino effect. However GWT also also strongly used internally inside 
companies so it might not have that much of an effect in that area.

If we ditch IE 8-10 and only leaving gecko1_8 and safari, can't we kill 
them both as well and put them together? Are there so many differences in 
code between both? From my work migrating GWT code to elemental2/JsInterop 
I had the feeling that only some minor stuff is different between both. So 
there shouldn't be that much overhead in code size and performance doing 
(cached) runtime checks instead.

-- J.

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