Re: [h-cost] colonial
Hi, Yes this picture is at a museum in London, I have studyed it there in person a coupple of times. The size of the picture dissapointed me a little, as it is a very small picture. Its a lovely dress. Bjarne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] colonial In a message dated 2/15/2006 3:57:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Fran%C3%A7ois_Boucher_019.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Fran%C3%A7ois_Boucher_018.jpg The color seems off in these pics. Anyway, Glen Close wears a replica of this gown [in a dark teal with pink roses and bows] in Dangerous Liaisons in the only scene where all the main characters are together, at the Salon, listening to the castrate singing Handel. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: colonial
Hi, Its difficult to say. There are small flower carriers survived from the period. Stuck down into the bodice opening with fresh water to carry fresh flowers. It was very fashionable with flowers. In Denmark many of the flowers were imported from Italy made of porcelain. Bjarne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:22 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: colonial Just out of curiosity -- are the flowers in this lady's hair and corsage supposed to be real, and if not, how would they be made? http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pimage?32697+0+0 Thanks! Tea Rose ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] women costumes from The three musketeers
Hi, Suddently i remember a bodice from Bavaria, from the book: Textile Schätze aus Renaissance und Barock from Bayerisches Nationalmuseum. Its a very early childs bodice from the Cavalier Style Period. Only the sleave slashes has whalebone stiffening. No boning in the body. But you are right that it could be used. Mens doublets had whalebone stiffening in the front. But i still think they wore a corset. The later 1660-70 bodices were whaleboned, but they were also laced in the center back, wich makes a difference. Its such a shame we have these gashes of mystery.. Bjarne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] women costumes from The three musketeers In a message dated 2/15/2006 2:45:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Evolution says its the bodice with the tabs which is the actually corset, but i dont believe they wore such short stays. I think they used the evolution shapes of the old renaissance stays. We dont know this, as no stays excist from this period. Their posture kind of tells me that they did wear corsets, also the way the breasts are lifted up. *** But when you get to the 1660s you have bodices mounted onto a boned lining [something that really helps with the horizontal neckline]. This suggests to me that there is some kind of transitional thing probably going on in the 1630s, It's like they start out with the corset with bodice over it but perhaps as the waistline rises, the bodices start getting tacked to the corset and then eventually, because of the high waist perhaps, the corset becomes the lining of the bodice. They are made up separately. Tabs and tassets seem to be present when some kind of lacing or tying up is necessary.like in a man's doublet where the hosen are laced to the doublet. With this logic, and also the attaching of rolls and pads and even farthingals to the corset under its tassets being common, I can see how this was transferred to the actual bodice, especially if it keeps a separate skirt up at the high waistline...either under or over the tassets. Also, sometimes you see an unstructured open gown over the quite complete in its own right rigid gown...that undergown acting like underpinnings of sorts. I could find pics in books pretty easily, but I don't know where to go on the web. If someone thinks they know what I'm talking about [hahahahahaha! Gotcha!] they might be so kind as to point me to some picture sources. This is not a period I have ever even made a gown foror studied too closely. But I like it, and always scrutinize images from it. I love Van Dyke! Maybe I'm thinking of some of his portraits. Y'know, we mostly think of underwear as underwearyou don't show it off and it's not outerwear to be seen. But in many periods, that distinction is definitely a blurry one...at least in informal affairs. The fashion designer, Versace, who loved to comb the Met Museum in NYC, and others, understood this and used these notions for effect; designing couture evening gowns that, from afar, look like bras and slips. You can see the residue of this too even in guys clothes when they show the top of their boxers. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] women costumes from The three musketeers
Hmm so you think they had a corset with tabs to which the bumroll was attached and over it the dress? So the dress itself should be of two parts - the skirt and the bodice. One thing that remains a mystery to me is this perfect fit of the bodices - I'd say they were at least stiffened with something. [EMAIL PROTECTED] says they were boned. This thing with attaching the bumroll to the tabs of the corset is quite interesting - I've never heard about it before. You know it from the Evolution of Fashion? It's a real pity I haven't got that book. But it's a good tip for buying, thanks:-)) Just one thing - how far on the tabs would the bumroll be, I mean, just at the waist or an inch or two lower? Just to know how to make the waistline of that bumroll. Zuzana My bodices stay very smooth, and the only place they're boned is the lacing tabs at the front, under the stomacher. I wear them over a corset cut very much like the effigy corset, but shorter and with the back slightly higher. Of course, I also interline my bodices with linen or canvas, depending on how stiff the outer fabric is. The interlining really does make a difference. I use a bumroll with some of my dresses. If the fabric is heavy enough I don't always need one, as I have natural padding there. With the lighter weight fabrics I use a small one, but I have never had any problems with it falling down, so I just tie it around myself. Melusine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 3 musketeers
Hi, I think some of you might have misunderstanded my explanations to this. I was not reffering to the movie picture costumes, but the cavallier style fashion for women. With the high waists. The reason why i want the bumroll to be laced to a bodice is that the dress waistline is so high over the natural waistline, that it simply couldnt be tied arround so high, without slipping down emediately. Bjarne I haven't found this to be a problem with any of my dresses, and I never lace the bumroll to the bodice. I just tie it around me where I want it to stay and it does. I'm pretty short-waisted naturally, but no one else for whom I've made this style has had any problems with it, either. Melusine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT: work at home 'rituals'
I've got a couple things that work for me. First, everything is in one room. I also have a smock that I wear to work in. I first started using the smock just because it kept me from getting thread and lint all over my clothes and it had a lot of pockets, but it has come to mean work to me. I can't decree office hours as easily as some, because my arthritis and fibromyalgia dictate frequent breaks and changes in routine. For instance, I can't sit at the sewing machine for more than an hour at the most, so I try to vary my tasks so that I can keep working, but not be doing the same thing. Even so, I take breaks about every 2 hours or so. I have also found that, with my husband working nights, I get most of my work done in the late afternoon and evenings. I have a large chalkboard in my workroom, something I picked up from the first costume shop I worked in. On it are all the garments I'm currently making, along with what I need to do on each. As I finish a task, it gets erased. A little thing, but it really does keep me on track and I can tell how I'm doing with a glance. With the exception of hand work, I try not to let the business take over my life. Hand work, I take everywhere with me. It's become joke amoung my friends that I'm never without a sewing kit and handsewing, but that's how I get it done. The other thing that has really helped me was getting a headset for my telephone. With the headset, I can take calls and still work with my hands, so long phone calls aren't a problem. Melusine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 3 musketeers
No, I haven't found it a problem either: after all, the high waist of the Cavalier style isn't as extreme as that of the Empire line. I'm long-waisted, but I make my bodices come down to my lower ribs and wear my bumroll round my waist. It sits on my hipbones and supports the waist of my skirts level with the bottom of the bodice. I wear a corset with my best dress, but for ordinary Living History I'm thin enough to get away with bodices lined with strong fabric and lightly boned. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/02/2006 09:11 Hi, I think some of you might have misunderstanded my explanations to this. I was not reffering to the movie picture costumes, but the cavallier style fashion for women. With the high waists. The reason why i want the bumroll to be laced to a bodice is that the dress waistline is so high over the natural waistline, that it simply couldnt be tied arround so high, without slipping down emediately. Bjarne I haven't found this to be a problem with any of my dresses, and I never lace the bumroll to the bodice. I just tie it around me where I want it to stay and it does. I'm pretty short-waisted naturally, but no one else for whom I've made this style has had any problems with it, either. Melusine __ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 3 musketeers
No, I haven't found it a problem either: after all, the high waist of the Cavalier style isn't as extreme as that of the Empire line. I'm long-waisted, but I make my bodices come down to my lower ribs and wear my bumroll round my waist. It sits on my hipbones and supports the waist of my skirts level with the bottom of the bodice. I wear a corset with my best dress, but for ordinary Living History I'm thin enough to get away with bodices lined with strong fabric and lightly boned. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor You know, my current theory is that probably a good many women wore corsets under their dresses, and some women had boned bodices or boned linings in the dresses, and maybe some of them wore both. There's several ways to get the correct line and without existant garments we really don't know. I'm also pretty sure that lower class women didn't bone their garments as much as the upper classes did, but again, we probably won't every know.So, I look at as many pictures as I can find, read as much written evidence (wills and other records) and then try my own theories to find what actually works in wearing it. Melusine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Cavelier clothing, was 3 musketeers
God! I wish I lived closer to you all! It would be so cool to be able to discuss this time period over a cuppa, 'round a campfire. I am the only one in this area who does this time period and often miss my hardcore re enacting days. Great conversation. Kelly in NS Bravery is something you can experience on the spur of the moment, faced with danger. To have courage, you must think about the dangers in advance, then weigh the risks, and then do what you have to do, despite your fears Caius Merlyn Britannicus From: Carmen Beaudry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] 3 musketeers Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 01:57:01 -0800 No, I haven't found it a problem either: after all, the high waist of the Cavalier style isn't as extreme as that of the Empire line. I'm long-waisted, but I make my bodices come down to my lower ribs and wear my bumroll round my waist. It sits on my hipbones and supports the waist of my skirts level with the bottom of the bodice. I wear a corset with my best dress, but for ordinary Living History I'm thin enough to get away with bodices lined with strong fabric and lightly boned. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor You know, my current theory is that probably a good many women wore corsets under their dresses, and some women had boned bodices or boned linings in the dresses, and maybe some of them wore both. There's several ways to get the correct line and without existant garments we really don't know. I'm also pretty sure that lower class women didn't bone their garments as much as the upper classes did, but again, we probably won't every know.So, I look at as many pictures as I can find, read as much written evidence (wills and other records) and then try my own theories to find what actually works in wearing it. Melusine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] cavalier
God! I wish I lived closer to you all! It would be so cool to be able to discuss this time period over a cuppa, 'round a campfire. I am the only one in this area who does this time period and often miss my hardcore re enacting days. Great conversation. Kelly in NS Hi Kelly, Yeah i really agree with you, i have it the same way, i mis my gustavian friends, sometimes i want to imigrate to Stockholm. But we are lucky to have this list arent we :-) Thanks for your inputs with this topic. I have some beautifull brocade in a mixture of cotton and viskose in light grey. Its a dress fabric, but it falls very heavy. Perhaps i could use this for a cavalier dress? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] women costumes from The three musketeers
Bjarne, would you like some photos of women dressing for the Renaissance Faire? We try to be as authentic as possible, so we wear chemise, corset, hoops, bumroll (which just sits on the hips, no need to lace it in, underskirt, overskirt, and bodice top. Some of our folks who are very good seamstresses achieve a great fit. Sharon Dear Sharon, I think you have misunderstanded me. I was not talking about the renaissance period, but the later cavalier period 1625- 35 where the skirt is sitting very high from the natural waist. Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re: [h-cost] italian childs renaissance dress
I have a fashion print showing historical outfits for a fancy dress
(costume) ball in the 1880s. It's hilarious from a costumer's
viewpoint. Imagine Mary Queen of Scots with an 1880s shape. :-D Very funny.
I love that stuff. I have several of these cross-period historical prints,
plus a couple of books about it. Some day I'll make one, and show up at a
Gaskell in it, as tho it'd gotten the outfit from a long gone Victorian
theatre company.
CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
www.FunStuft.com
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-@@\\\
7 )))
(((
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[h-cost] Amadeus
Hi, Some time ago the swedish television showed directors cut of Amadeus. I taped it. In this there i a scene where Constance pays a visit to Sallieri, and he tells her to come back in the evening. I dont think this scene is in the original version. Constance is desperate to have Sallieri help Mozart to get a teacher job for Princesse Louise. When she gets back in the evening, she starts to undress herself expecting to pay Sallieri this way. Then i noticed that Constance is wearing a victorian corset - like thing cut with the bust like a bra.. Arhh How on earth can this take place in a movie of today? I never liked Amadeus costume wise, and the wigs are awfull puddle dog like. Some of the mens costumes are ok, and besides the Turkish dress, that an opera singer is wearing, womens costumes dont come to my taste. But i know that it is very expensive to pay for all the costumes in such a movie, and most of them are likely rented somewhere, but really! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Tudor patterns was Tudor rose
If some of my memory serves me right, doesn't fashion history suggest that children were more or less dressed as minies of their elders , especially during this time period? My children's clothing history does not present separate patterns or expectations until the very end of the 18th C. Since most of the pattern companies that have been issuing period dress also have basic children's versions that at least have been sized for smaller frames, putting the pattern pieces next to H-costume pieces and reshape them for the Historical look. I have even been doing this with doll patterns of late and as you know, the Cut is where the history happens. Kathleen - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:15 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Tudor patterns was Tudor rose http://www.sewingcentral.com/cgi-bin/Web_store/web_store.cgi?page=pp.htmlca rt_id=71329_959 Patterns 51 and 52 (need to scroll down) Sorry, for adults but can give an idea of what to look for in making you daughters outfit. I had thought that Margo Anderson was working on some Elizabethan children's patterns for her next major patterns but I guess I was thinking of another history pattern company. Once upon a time I could have sworn that there was a Tudor pattern for girls that with a bit o' tweaking could be very close to period in construction but I can't seem to find it. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re:[h-cost]italianchilds renaissance dress
I mut look this one up! It might have all those dicey tid-bits that would amuse women at Tea. Kathleen - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:30 AM Subject: Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re:[h-cost]italianchilds renaissance dress On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: I'd like to see That one...(And who said that Victorians were lacking in a sense of humor... when it came to Dress? Some of the examples I use during my talk on the Victorian view of historic costume come from a book called Fancy Dresses Described, by Ardern Holt, a very popular manual of ideas for costumes for fancy-dress parties. In addition to a large number of historical figures, it gave instructions (and a few illustrations) for how to dress as a deck of cards, a tea set, various flowers, etc. (The historical designs, of course, bore little resemblance to actual period costume of the historical figures.) --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re:[h-cost]italianchilds renaissance dress
At 14:06 16/02/2006, you wrote: I mut look this one up! It might have all those dicey tid-bits that would amuse women at Tea. On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: I'd like to see That one...(And who said that Victorians were lacking in a sense of humor... when it came to Dress? Some of the examples I use during my talk on the Victorian view of historic costume come from a book called Fancy Dresses Described, by Ardern Holt, a very popular manual of ideas for costumes for fancy-dress parties. In addition to a large number of historical figures, it gave instructions (and a few illustrations) for how to dress as a deck of cards, a tea set, various flowers, etc. (The historical designs, of course, bore little resemblance to actual period costume of the historical figures.) I have a copy if you have problems finding one. Not all the illustrations are there, but as I picked it up cheap on E-bay, I was quite happy. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re:[h-cost]italianchilds renaissance dress
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: [about Fancy Dresses Described, by Ardern Holt:] I mut look this one up! It might have all those dicey tid-bits that would amuse women at Tea. I've found it only in rare book rooms, but it was a very popular book (went into five or six editions) so it should be in a sizable number of collections. Don't know what sort of dicey tidbits you're looking for; the entire book is costume descriptions. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Lightbown's European Medieval Jewellery
Can they do a re-issue on CD's? much cheaper to make multiple copies I would imagine; once the scanning and all is done. (OED went that route for at least one edition.) Having ILL'd this volume, yes it is huge, and yes it is glorious, but the pages were almost cardstock weight, and more of us have computers now... Just my .02 lira; Betsy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of E House Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:03 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Lightbown's European Medieval Jewellery I hate to forward stuff, but if I had a few hundred lying around fallow I'd want this book: -- Forwarded message -- Originally posted to EK_AnS I have contacted the VA about a reprint of this book ['European Medieval Jewellery' by Ronald W. Lightbown]. It's been out of print for decades and it's almost the bible for medieval jewellery enthusiasts around the world. So many people are after a copy, that I thought it might be worthwhile finding out what the publisher thinks about a reprint. Now, generally they are not against the idea, but there are a few things they said: The book was and will be expensive. But seeing that the last available copy that I know of went for something ridiculous like $800 US, I would happily pay the £120 or £150 it cost originally - it's a great book and worth every penny (or cent or whathaveyou) They need to have a ballpark figure of how many people would be interested to buy it. If it is a close cut, those people might have to pledge themselves to buy it for it to be reprinted, if the number is overwhelming, they will probably not need to confirm every single buyer. Even though I know that there are several people who would love to have it, I also know that it's a different matter to actually have to buy it, once it's available. I have wanted it for ages, that's why I am doing this. In any case, before anything happens, they need a number. I am asking for your help now, in finding out how many people there would possibly be, who would be interested in buying a copy, if it is reprinted. All you medieval jewellery people, if you want it, please let me know or if you know someone who wants it, could you let them all know about it and tell them to let me know, too? If you could pass this on to as many people you know who might be interested or any groups you think might be interested as well, it would help a lot and I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks everyone, Caithlinn You can contact her at [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re:[h-cost]italianchilds renaissance dress
At 15:15 16/02/2006, you wrote: I wrote: [about Fancy Dresses Described, by Ardern Holt:] I've found it only in rare book rooms, but it was a very popular book (went into five or six editions) so it should be in a sizable number of collections. Following Suzi's comment, I just found a bunch of them on bookfinder; the cheapest ($25) is missing its plates, and the most expensive is $500! Here's a copy with pictures on ebay, very cheap starting bid: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=8384148412 --Robin Whooo, that's got more pictures than mine. Good luck bidding, if you decide. I might bid if the price stays like that and nobody else is interested, then sell on my less complete copy. However, I don't want to enter a war with anybody on list, so p[lease let me know. Thanks Robin for the heads up. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re:[h-cost]italianchilds renaissance dress
I often use my 19th C etiquette books, especially Putnam's as an introduction to conversation. Many of them also deal with Correct Fashion, so Fancy Dress will be another topic. Kathleen - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing,was Re:[h-cost]italianchilds renaissance dress On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: [about Fancy Dresses Described, by Ardern Holt:] I mut look this one up! It might have all those dicey tid-bits that would amuse women at Tea. I've found it only in rare book rooms, but it was a very popular book (went into five or six editions) so it should be in a sizable number of collections. Don't know what sort of dicey tidbits you're looking for; the entire book is costume descriptions. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Amadeus
In a message dated 2/16/2006 8:31:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I never liked Amadeus costume wise * Ahhthe movie I love to hate! It is TACKY! That's the only word for it. The designer has no taste. [his other opus, Valmont is tacky and clueless too] He just doesn't get it. It won the Oscar for best costumes that year, y'know. Up against 3 films with perfect costumes: Places in the Heart [1930s midwest America]. Passage to India [the British in India, 1920s] and The Bostonians [1876 America]. All three of these losers were beautifully designed with clothes that spoke to character and a healthy respect for the periods and places involved. Amadeus was just a garish messand a bad movie to boot. The fleshing out of the play ruined it as well as the tacky clothes and acrylic fur wigs. The play, which I saw on B'way with Tim Curry and Jane Seymour, was great! Good costumes and the whole episode was clearly in Salieri's befuddled mind, not reality. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Fiskars scissors/shears- springs replaced
Whoever commented that Fiskars sent her replacement springs - thank you so much. They sent me two new springs, one of which my DH fitted, and I am go for cutting again. They really need a professional sharpen, (I tried to cut a pin, and for once I can't sharpen them well enough) but they are still better than the big ones I had to use. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colors (was colonial)
Not period maybe, but with deep purple-blue as accent color I'd go silver for the white-ish color. And I agree with Dawn about touches of an intermediate blue or blues, or, to my taste, violet. Just two cents' worth... Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -Original Message- From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Feb 15, 2006 12:16 PM To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] colors (was colonial) Diana Habra wrote: Oooo wedding dress!:) What color? De Well, that has been the hardest part. I want to do a white-ish color white, cream, chanpagne, etc.) but my accent color is a deep purple-blue. I originally intended to make it white with the blue accents but the contrast is so big! I am still trying to figure out how to do it. Yellow? Maybe a paler yellow, but not too light. Get some shades of blue that graduate up to your darkest color, to soften the contrast. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colors (was colonial)
In a message dated 2/16/2006 11:09:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not period maybe, but with deep purple-blue as accent color I'd go silver for the white-ish color. Actually, it seems to me that I have read descriptions of silver 18th century wedding dresses, but I can't give you documentation, so I may be wrong. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colors (was colonial)
In a message dated 2/16/2006 11:04:59 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not period maybe, but with deep purple-blue as accent color I'd go silver for the white-ish color. *** Indeed. An oyster color. Y'know, a dove grey might look good. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re:[h-cost]italianchilds renaissance dress
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Suzi Clarke wrote: I have a copy if you have problems finding one. Not all the illustrations are there, but as I picked it up cheap on E-bay, I was quite happy. OH, I am jealous! --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 139
At 23:52 10/02/2006, you wrote: Have you seen the Three Musketeers and the Four Musketeers with Michael York, Richard Chamberlain, and Oliver Reed? Talk about costumes!!! They are amazing, and they have recently become available on DVD. Although again, Raquel Welch's costumes were designed differently from all the rest, and are not authentic. But very pretty. Gail Finke This is the period in which I specialize and I have never seen such good costuming in a film. Completely ignore everything Raquel Welch is wearing and the rest are amazing. The Queen's costumes were taking almost line for line from some of her portraits, and so were the King's. There are a multitude of tavern and town scenes that I recognize from paintings, also. The corsetry of this time is an unknown. The only existant corsetry between 1603 and 1650 is a bodice in the VA with a boned lining, although I have heard rumors of a corset tentively dated to 1635 having recently been found within an English farmhouse wall. From extensive study of the visual evidence, it's pretty clear that they wore some sort of foundation garment, because while the dresses and necklines have a more natural, rounded look than previously, they are still very smooth and supported. My own personal theory is that some women discarded their corsets and went with boned linings in their dresses, but most probably all of them didn't. Just look at how many women still wore bras during the 1970's braless era. Again, my theory from experimenting with the shape and boning placement for corsets under these styles, is that it's something between the very flat fronted Elizabethan styles, and the very rounded, off the shoulder style of the 1660's. The corsets I wear with my 1635 dresses are cut much like the Elizabethan effigy corset, but with a higher back, higher waist, tabs cut in a piece with the body like the 1660's design, and horizontal (actually slightly diagonal) boning at the center front neckline. It seems to work pretty well and gives me more of a rounded front shape than the Elizabethans, without looking too late. Disclaimer: most of the above are my opinions and theories. If anyone has knowlege of existant garments that I don't, I'd love to know about it. There are boned bodices in the Museum of London, but manly from the 1650's. I recently looked at bodices and a beautiful pair of stays from the 1670's. There are museums in England apart from the V A and the Mof L that have boned bodices I am sure. Possibly Bath has one, and maybe Platt Hall in Manchester, which also has a pair of 17th century stays I believe. I will post the name of a book listing existing garments in British museums when I can find it. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re:[h-cost]italianchilds renaissance dress
Just did a quick search with the usual book vendors and my jaw is still flapping! How about $500.00!! Kathleen - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing,was Re:[h-cost]italianchilds renaissance dress On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: [about Fancy Dresses Described, by Ardern Holt:] I mut look this one up! It might have all those dicey tid-bits that would amuse women at Tea. I've found it only in rare book rooms, but it was a very popular book (went into five or six editions) so it should be in a sizable number of collections. Don't know what sort of dicey tidbits you're looking for; the entire book is costume descriptions. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT: work at home 'rituals'
katherine sanders wrote: I got to wondering if other people have special rituals or procedures they do to separate their time, particularly those who work at home. I'm pretty casual about my hours, that's one of the reasons I work from home after all, but I do have a sort of routine. Get up, get breakfast, read email, get dressed. Then the _daylight hours are for sewing_, until around 4pm when I quit to do household stuff like prep dinner. I find it difficult to work after dusk, even with good lighting indoors. I take breaks as often as I want to, or need to (arthritis) depending on my workload. I run a pretty quick turnaround time for orders and I know how long it takes me to make each item, so I know whether I can screw around the rest of the afternoon or whether I better get the dress finished so it can be mailed. Generally, I try to divide my time into large chunks. I will sew for several hours when the light is good, and I promise myself computer games after supper. You get much more done when you're not hopping all over trying to do several things. I also keep a list of jobs so I can stay on top of the workload, and cross those off when they're finished. I sometimes put tv on in the background (how much of that do you really need to *watch*?) or plug in a bunch of renfest music, but generally I'm not a tv person. My husband is very supportive of my efforts, and during crush times he helps by overlooking the condition of the house and fixing ( or bringing home) dinner for us. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
Quoting Sue Clemenger [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I don't have the accession number for the shirt, sorry, but you might be able to find pictures of it online (people's websites and blogs, if nothing else). Or maybe the VA website? I'll have to look and see I'll have to root through my blackwork files to get the cite for the book, but that, I know I have. Give me a few days? Sure thing -- no hurry. Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re:[h-cost]italianchilds renaissance dress
I wrote: [about Fancy Dresses Described, by Ardern Holt:] I've found it only in rare book rooms, but it was a very popular book (went into five or six editions) so it should be in a sizable number of collections. Following Suzi's comment, I just found a bunch of them on bookfinder; the cheapest ($25) is missing its plates, and the most expensive is $500! Here's a copy with pictures on ebay, very cheap starting bid: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=8384148412 --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
I'm really interested in wanting a blackwork pattern of columbines, also. Actually, I was recently gifted a blackwork book of patterns and there is this one pattern that looks like a columbine but has no spurs - they called it a pansy, but definitely does not look like any pansy I've ever seen. I didn't see anything at the Dragonbear site, and haven't been to the EBA site in a very long time so I guess it is about time I take a look see. Roscelin -- Original message -- From: Susan B. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This is the week for not finding things. I know I have seen a 1500s blackwork pattern of columbines. AAAHHH! I'm pretty sure that there's one on the dragonbear site, if not the Elizabethan Blackwork Archives (or both .) RRGGGHH I *know* that I've seen one. Ill have to look at my stuff when I get home tonight. Jerusha - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fiskars scissors/shears- springs replaced
'Twas I, Suzi. This is the first company in a long time that treats me (and you) like a valued customer! Kathleen - Original Message - From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:15 AM Subject: [h-cost] Fiskars scissors/shears- springs replaced Whoever commented that Fiskars sent her replacement springs - thank you so much. They sent me two new springs, one of which my DH fitted, and I am go for cutting again. They really need a professional sharpen, (I tried to cut a pin, and for once I can't sharpen them well enough) but they are still better than the big ones I had to use. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
This isn't a pattern, but this is a picture of a shirt discussed in someone elses post, (I don't remember if anyone already posted the picture, sorry if this is redundant) :-) http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/elizabethan/boyshirt1540s.jpg You can clearly see the columbine pattern on the collar, very lovely. Sheridan Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This is the week for not finding things. I know I have seen a 1500s blackwork pattern of columbines. AAAHHH! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colors (was colonial)
Hi, Yes this is true, silver and white brocade. Both in Sweden and Denmark. Bjarne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] colors (was colonial) In a message dated 2/16/2006 11:09:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not period maybe, but with deep purple-blue as accent color I'd go silver for the white-ish color. Actually, it seems to me that I have read descriptions of silver 18th century wedding dresses, but I can't give you documentation, so I may be wrong. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 10th - 11th C. German
I hope someone can assist me. One of the members of my household wants to take a look at what a 10th to the 11th C. German man would have worn. I tried to look through the net - but must not of worded my search correctly because I could not find anything. Would the German people at this time be considered the Franks? Any suggestions would be helpful. I'm trying hard to get more of my group to join this list. :-) Roscelin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re:[h-cost]italianchilds renaissance dress
You have said it! I use their edition of Braun and Schneider for lots of picture references so I can leave the 19th C edition on the shelf. Now to plot my course re Fancy Dress coming from foreign climes...if I should get it. Will look further for an affordable copy in the US. Got a book on line last fall and it was going to cost four times the win for the Royal Mail. Alas-alack! (Did find another one sometime later) Kathleen - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:32 AM Subject: Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing,was Re:[h-cost]italianchilds renaissance dress On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Suzi Clarke wrote: Whooo, that's got more pictures than mine. Good luck bidding, if you decide. I might bid if the price stays like that and nobody else is interested, then sell on my less complete copy. However, I don't want to enter a war with anybody on list, so p[lease let me know. I won't be bidding; I don't really need it, and there are other books I do need more if I had the money to spend. Keep us posted! If ever a book begged for Dover reprint, this is it. The fully illustrated volumes are lovely. (The book grew, and gained more pictures, as the years/editions progressed.) --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet (columbines)
I forgot about this shirt with the columbines. The blackwork pattern that I am thinking of is from one of the German model books and is similar to the pattern on the shirt collar. De -Original Message- This isn't a pattern, but this is a picture of a shirt discussed in someone elses post, (I don't remember if anyone already posted the picture, sorry if this is redundant) :-) http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/elizabethan/boyshirt1540s.jpg You can clearly see the columbine pattern on the collar, very lovely. Sheridan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] American Civil War Confederate Uniform Pattern
I doubt if half the subject showed up, but I wanted to be sure just which civil war (stupid name for a very uncivil action) and which side of the conflict I was researching. I have a multitude of pictures of Confederate uniforms, but would really love to have a decent pattern to start with. I don't need patterns for myself or most women, but have not done enough men's clothing to wing it. Does anyone know of a reasonably accurate pattern? Many thanks, Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender _ Netscape. just the net you need ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Fiskars scissors/shears- springs replaced
That is great news! I still need to buy the second pair you asked for. I have a coupon good for Saturday. Do you still want them? Anne They sent me two new springs, one of which my DH fitted, and I am go for cutting again. They really need a professional sharpen, (I tried to cut a pin, and for once I can't sharpen them well enough) but they are still better than the big ones I had to use. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.10/262 - Release Date: 2/16/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.10/262 - Release Date: 2/16/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] columbine (was Re: Smock or Partlet (was Tudor roses
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This isn't a pattern, but this is a picture of a shirt discussed in someone elses post, (I don't remember if anyone already posted the picture, sorry if this is redundant) :-) http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/elizabethan/boyshirt1540s.jpg You can clearly see the columbine pattern on the collar, very lovely. WooHoo! Now if I only had an accession number, I'd be in tall cotton! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] American Civil War Confederate Uniform Pattern
Lalah wrote: I doubt if half the subject showed up, but I wanted to be sure just which civil war (stupid name for a very uncivil action) Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin civilis, from civis 1 a : of or relating to citizens b : of or relating to the state or its citizenry and which side of the conflict I was researching. I have a multitude of pictures of Confederate uniforms, but would really love to have a decent pattern to start with. The only decent men's patterns from that period that I know of (the Simplicity ones) are not uniforms. There used to be a costumey uniform pattern, but it was pretty bad. I think what you'd want is a man's sloper, then you could adjust it to whichever picture you're trying to imitate. The problem with CW uniforms, in the south especially, is that a lot of men went to war with whatever clothing their wife sent them with. Each unit seems to have had its own uniform, they could vary wildly, and as shortages got worse, some folks gave up on uniforms altogether. I know that doesn't help much. :) If I was trying it, I'd just get a men's sloper or simple coat pattern and start there. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet (columbines)
Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I forgot about this shirt with the columbines. The blackwork pattern that I am thinking of is from one of the German model books and is similar to the pattern on the shirt collar. On the Arizona site for Digital Archives for weaving, there's this book/article http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/articles/nb33_lac.pdf Early pattern books for lace and embroidery by Margaret Daniels on page 28, is a columbine pattern. Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] American Civil War Confederate Uniform Pattern
Check outhttp://www.smoke-fire.com/pattern-shop.htm Susan Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for. - Ride the Dark Trail by Louis L'Amour On Feb 16, 2006, at 3:57 PM, Lalah wrote: I doubt if half the subject showed up, but I wanted to be sure just which civil war (stupid name for a very uncivil action) and which side of the conflict I was researching. I have a multitude of pictures of Confederate uniforms, but would really love to have a decent pattern to start with. I don't need patterns for myself or most women, but have not done enough men's clothing to wing it. Does anyone know of a reasonably accurate pattern? Many thanks, Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender _ Netscape. just the net you need ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] American Civil War Confederate Uniform Pattern
At least for the officer's pattern, any period frock coat pattern will get you started. I think that my latest was from Past Patterns. The carry other Cw patterns (I think) - Original Message - From: Lalah [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:57 PM Subject: [h-cost] American Civil War Confederate Uniform Pattern I doubt if half the subject showed up, but I wanted to be sure just which civil war (stupid name for a very uncivil action) and which side of the conflict I was researching. I have a multitude of pictures of Confederate uniforms, but would really love to have a decent pattern to start with. I don't need patterns for myself or most women, but have not done enough men's clothing to wing it. Does anyone know of a reasonably accurate pattern? Many thanks, Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender _ Netscape. just the net you need ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Tudor patterns for children
I would think that would go without saying, as in any age. Especially when fashionable clothing was so involved both to dressing and wearing. I suppose that one reason we have Visual examples at all is that the child would be prepared for the sitting(s) much as children of the 19th/20th C were prepared for photograph sittings. In general, not until candid photography was possible do we get any real vision of what people actually wore in the every day. Kathleen - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:31 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Tudor patterns for children That seems to be the common thought from the portraits. but I have noticed that there are some differences in construction. In Arnold's book the child's opening is at the shoulder. There was a woodprint that I would estimate to be 3 years old with closing in the back like a keyhole neckline with ties at the point. The example just recently posted by Bjarne. Style silhouette are similar to the adults but there is probably a different construction to accommodate the child's body shape and convenience of dressing the child. De -Original Message- If some of my memory serves me right, doesn't fashion history suggest that children were more or less dressed as minies of their elders , especially during this time period? My children's clothing history does not present separate patterns or expectations until the very end of the 18th C. Since most of the pattern companies that have been issuing period dress also have basic children's versions that at least have been sized for smaller frames, putting the pattern pieces next to H-costume pieces and reshape them for the Historical look. I have even been doing this with doll patterns of late and as you know, the Cut is where the history happens. Kathleen - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:15 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Tudor patterns was Tudor rose http://www.sewingcentral.com/cgi-bin/Web_store/web_store.cgi?page=pp.htmlca rt_id=71329_959 Patterns 51 and 52 (need to scroll down) Sorry, for adults but can give an idea of what to look for in making you daughters outfit. I had thought that Margo Anderson was working on some Elizabethan children's patterns for her next major patterns but I guess I was thinking of another history pattern company. Once upon a time I could have sworn that there was a Tudor pattern for girls that with a bit o' tweaking could be very close to period in construction but I can't seem to find it. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
Forgive the timelag, I've been neglecting my email for a few days. Personally, if I was making a costume for a young child, I'd go with a separate shift and gown. The shift would be made ( wide seam allowances, tucks in the shift 'skirt' and sleeves are the two things which spring immediately to mind ) so that it can be let out when the child grows, thereby letting you get more than one years use out of it. I think, too, that it might be more comfortable than everything joined together - it would certainly be easier to make. My 2cents worth. Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- Becky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a way to make a smock that can create the illusion of being different parts and still be accuate? With my daughter being so young, I think that fewer layers would be better for her. She won't be in any competition of costume so I think we can fudge the costume for comfort and design. It only has to please us. She'd like it whether it was period or not, as long as it looked like the ones we saw last year. She tried on a costume that was all one piece, including a collar that stood up behing the head. It fit her so well and she wanted it. I ran out of money long before we got to that vender. I purchased fabrics to make my gown and that wasn't cheap. My sister bought her a French hood and she wore it all day. When we found the costume, the vender let her try it on and I got a picture. At least we got that much. She planned to go back this year and play the part. She made friends and she will look them up for sure. Could be worse. She could be interested in the black hair and chains of the goth crowd. I'm not sure I could handle that. Dressing up for Renaissance Faire, we can share the time and have fun, too. This is my favorite time for costumes. _ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Tudor effigies and women walking
At 09:02 PM 2/15/2006, you wrote: I generally wear my 14th/15th century garb (both kirtle and gown layers) at past-my-feet level as you describe, and once you've practiced in it a bit, it's not as bad as you would think. If I'm walking a long distance or outdoors, I pick my skirts up, and going up stairs can be slightly tricky, but if I'm indoors and wearing appropriate shoes (turnshoes) I can just kick the hems out of my way as I walk. YMMV, of course... Jennifer / Guenièvre Thank you Jennifer for sharing your experiences. If I may ask, are your hems stiffened in any way, or turned up a few inches? How far past your feet are the hems? I am going to be making myself on of these sets of garments (both kirtle and gown), for an upcoming event in June, and I am trying to understand as much as I can before I begin. Thank you, Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tudor effigies and women walking
At 03:10 PM 2/15/2006, you wrote: That is quite a bit longer than I had imagined when I first read your email. Hope you weren't offended by my first response. I'm thinking that a gown that long would have to be held up when walking...perhaps the fashion that's depicted in Jan van Eyck's 'Marriage of Giovanni Arnolfini', in that painting, the dress is held up in front by her hand. I know that it's earlier than Tudor, but I've heard that the style held on for a good amount. You've got me thinking now! Kelly Hi Kelly, No offense was taken. I was wondering about earlier garments, as I know this time frame of the Tudors was considered a transition from medieval garments into later Elizabethans. But I don't know much of medieval garments, except as commented here and there on this list. If you come up with some more thoughts, please share. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Tudor effigies and women walking
At 10:05 PM 2/14/2006, you wrote: I recently had the experience to spend the day outside in a misting rainy enviroment in skirts that touched the ground, if not lay upon the ground a bit. Even though the bottom ten inches or so were wet, my ankles and legs were not so cold as they were a little later when I found a belt that I could use to tuck up my skirts and get them off the wet ground. The longer the skirts are the less draft that can get up your skirts, therefore you stay warmer. I have also found I walk very differently in long skirts. One thing is I tend not to walk as fast, so skirts don't get tangled in my legs. The other is that for short steps up, I do a kind of kick with the front hem and the skirts don't get caught under my feet as I step up. alex Thank you Alex, What you posted makes me wonder if their kirtles were made of wool, which when wet would get warmer, and with the length so very long, make for warmer legs even when wet. I am going to have to try this... a later event in November is often wet around here, and my legs under the farthingale I wear usually gets colder than my shoulders, which is covered in a partlet. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Tudor effigies and women walking
At 09:39 PM 2/14/2006, you wrote: What I learned was that as castles were very cold and during religious services, everyone stood (no benches, ladies would actually stand on their long skirts for comfort and warmth. Sharon Thank you Sharon. That was an aspect I hadn't thought of, considering I live in a hot locale. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] American Civil War Confederate Uniform Pattern
try chas r childs's patterns at county cloth. he does the best acw uniform patterns I know of, (has asst paterns - richmond, columbus etc). he also does some of the best jeans and notions. http://www.crchilds.com/id15.htm Debbie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm really interested in wanting a blackwork pattern of columbines, also. Actually, I was recently gifted a blackwork book of patterns and there is this one pattern that looks like a columbine but has no spurs - they called it a pansy, but definitely does not look like any pansy I've ever seen. I'd like to see that one. There are a couple of columbines in the dover Medieval herb, plant, and flower illustrations CD/book. One of them is mislabeled, however as a flax-weed. I didn't see anything at the Dragonbear site, and haven't been to the EBA site in a very long time so I guess it is about time I take a look see. There were a couple of things at Kat Robeard's web site (I think I'm remembering the name correctly) -- infotrope.net was the old domain. They're retrievable from the WayBack Machine -- one's from a Schole-House for the needle (which is charted in The New Carolingian Modelbook). These are the same pattern, just different sizes. http://tinyurl.com/amncs http://tinyurl.com/cyrrs Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
Quoting Sue Clemenger [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Well, speaking as Sue the flower junkie, and not Susan the flower junkie g, no, not really. I've done collar and cuffs in an interlacing linear pattern of columbines (from a mid-16th century boy's shirt in the VA), and A photo of the shirt has been posted -- it looks like from what we can see that the collar consists of a motif, then rotated 180 ... repeating flip-flopped motifs sorta like hyhyhyhy ... is this what's going on? Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: 10th - 11th C. German
The Romanesque period costume is particularly hard to document. In central Europe this is the time of the Ottonians (successors to Charlemagne). There are many textile fragments and a few existing garments from this period. Check Bender-Jorgenson for the textiles, Marc Calson's pages for existing garments, manuscript illumination is pretty good at this time also. North coastal areas would be late Viking (Ribe, etc). Beth At 04:23 PM 2/16/2006, you wrote: Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 20:14:45 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] 10th - 11th C. German I hope someone can assist me. One of the members of my household wants to take a look at what a 10th to the 11th C. German man would have worn. I tried to look through the net - but must not of worded my search correctly because I could not find anything. Would the German people at this time be considered the Franks? Any suggestions would be helpful. I'm trying hard to get more of my group to join this list. :-) Roscelin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] American Civil War Confederate Uniform Pattern
Of the Smoke and Fire patterns, I would choose stock #RHF-701 for the shirt and #PI-775 for the trousers. While at the Halifax Citadel, who recreates the mid 19thC, we made clothes similar to these patterns. I did make confederate jackets for a couple of the guys to go to Gettysburg the big year. They wore them as 'undress' jackets with basic civi trousers and shirts, they went with the 'Authentic Movement' guys, the movement guys were impressed with their turn out. The pattern I used was from CountryCloth/Chas.R.Childs it was very good, the only thing I did was raise the front neck to a natural curve. I believe that he took a pattern from an existing garment, similar to the ones we had at the Citadel. The undress jackets will scoop out in the neck as they are worn due to the fact of the wool they are made of, without any stabilizing interlining. Hope that helps, if you have any questions, ask...I lived in that time period for several years ;-) Kelly in Nova Scotia Susan wrote: Check outhttp://www.smoke-fire.com/pattern-shop.htm Lalah wrote: of the conflict I was researching. I have a multitude of pictures of Confederate uniforms, but would really love to have a decent pattern to start with. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Victorian Bristish Costume Book
I have this book and been working on getting it on my website for the past two years. Even though some of the costumes are not period correct, they are the costumes that people during this time wore to fancy dressed balls, plays, etc. We have about half of the book's descriptions typed. I can't pull the book at this moment to quote from it. But going on memory, it was written or supported by a large costume house in London. When I am working on the book again, I will pull the credits and provide more information. Kathleen once I have the book online, I will loan it to you. This book on eBay is *one* edition of the book and the costumes are for women and children. There were a few editions. I think the last one was published in 1900. I have been looking for the menwear edition of this book for a few years. I found one dealer who had the men's costume book, but he was in England and the price and shipping was more than I had at the time. The price of this book is high. I have seen it extremely high You can find some tattered editions at antique bookstores online. My copy is in good condition. Queen Victoria was fascinated with historically inspired costume balls and a lot of research went behind the costumes worn to them. I have been working on a few articles about these balls. One reason for the balls was to give a boost to the economy of England in the 1840s 1850s. There is a really good article about her balls in an 1980s Costume Society of America's journal Dress. The article goes into more detail about this. Kathleen, your 1868 book, The Corset and the Crinoline, will have three more chapters (5-7) online within a week or so. Watch for the announcements. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
I think that joingin the parts will definitely be done for my duaghter's costume. I think that she will learn to walk like a lady instead of dropping on the ground like she does. If she has a hoop skirt, she will definitely learn not NOT to sit. I found a pattern that is very similar to what she wants. I bought it on eBay. I haven't gotten it yet. Item: 9836 Girls Halloween Renaissance Costumes Patterns 7-14. She wants one similar to the white one. She wants something pink so I've been looking for a good fabric AND Reanaissance period design. ANY suggestions out there in the group? - Original Message - From: Joannah Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses Forgive the timelag, I've been neglecting my email for a few days. Personally, if I was making a costume for a young child, I'd go with a separate shift and gown. The shift would be made ( wide seam allowances, tucks in the shift 'skirt' and sleeves are the two things which spring immediately to mind ) so that it can be let out when the child grows, thereby letting you get more than one years use out of it. I think, too, that it might be more comfortable than everything joined together - it would certainly be easier to make. My 2cents worth. Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ --- Becky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a way to make a smock that can create the illusion of being different parts and still be accuate? With my daughter being so young, I think that fewer layers would be better for her. She won't be in any competition of costume so I think we can fudge the costume for comfort and design. It only has to please us. She'd like it whether it was period or not, as long as it looked like the ones we saw last year. She tried on a costume that was all one piece, including a collar that stood up behing the head. It fit her so well and she wanted it. I ran out of money long before we got to that vender. I purchased fabrics to make my gown and that wasn't cheap. My sister bought her a French hood and she wore it all day. When we found the costume, the vender let her try it on and I got a picture. At least we got that much. She planned to go back this year and play the part. She made friends and she will look them up for sure. Could be worse. She could be interested in the black hair and chains of the goth crowd. I'm not sure I could handle that. Dressing up for Renaissance Faire, we can share the time and have fun, too. This is my favorite time for costumes. _ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
--- Susan B. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've toyed with trying to transform one of the english columbines Elizabethan patterns into the American columbine. Ours is not as fat and the spurs are *much* longer. http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Wildflower/Images/columbine.jpg Susan, the (spring) wildflower junkie The Eastern columbine that grows wild in my yard, but is endangered, looks just like the picture in your link. The Western columbine tends towards blue is shorter by a lot, from what I've seen. And this Columbine would make for a very different Comedia del'Arte troupe costuming. Ann in CT __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Fancy Dress book on Ebay
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Suzi Clarke wrote: Whooo, that's got more pictures than mine. Good luck bidding, if you decide. I might bid if the price stays like that and nobody else is interested, then sell on my less complete copy. However, I don't want to enter a war with anybody on list, so p[lease let me know. The current winning bidder is a good friend of mine. I hope to see it if she wins. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Boned Stuart bodices doublets (was: Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 139)
There are boned bodices in the Museum of London, but manly from the 1650's. I recently looked at bodices and a beautiful pair of stays from Melusine I should have been more specific; I don't know of any boned bodices or corset in existance before after 1603 but before 1640. I believe the pinked white silk in the VA is dated 1640. The bodice styles changed drastically about 1620, and changed again around 1640-45, so looking at the later garments doesn't really help much. How odd that men's doublets are boned, yet the women's arent. Ref: Naomi Tarrant's Devel of Costume, p.109-110 photos showing the thick cardboard used to create the straight area between the chest and waist. The front edge is further stiffened by a whalebone. The doublet is 1630s, Natl Museum of Scotland. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
Quoting Ann Catelli [EMAIL PROTECTED]: --- Susan B. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've toyed with trying to transform one of the english columbines Elizabethan patterns into the American columbine. Ours is not as fat and the spurs are *much* longer. http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Wildflower/Images/columbine.jpg Susan, the (spring) wildflower junkie The Eastern columbine that grows wild in my yard, but is endangered, looks just like the picture in your link. The Western columbine tends towards blue is shorter by a lot, from what I've seen. I did some poking around the Flora of North America today, and there are (or were) 14 species of columbine in North America -- white, yellow, and colored like out eastern columbine -- but Aquilegia canadensis, the eastern columbine, is the only one that we have in the east! you can see some pictures here http://snipurl.com/mnd7 This is the plants.usda.gov website. It's a neat place if you're into plants. Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fancy Dress book on Ebay
Cynthia, The book's images will differ from the year's editions, but only with a few of the images. I can't recall off-hand but certain images are the same in every book. I did a lot of research on this book before purchasing it. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
I could scan it for you and send it to you privately, if you would like. It's nice when I can help someone from here instead of me asking for help all of the time. LOL Roscelin -- Original message -- From: Susan B. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd like to see that one. There are a couple of columbines in the dover Medieval herb, plant, and flower illustrations CD/book. One of them is mislabeled, however as a flax-weed. There were a couple of things at Kat Robeard's web site (I think I'm remembering the name correctly) -- infotrope.net was the old domain. They're retrievable from the WayBack Machine -- one's from a Schole-House for the needle (which is charted in The New Carolingian Modelbook). These are the same pattern, just different sizes. http://tinyurl.com/amncs http://tinyurl.com/cyrrs I'll have to take a look at my New Caroligian Modelbook - I don't recall seeing a columbine there, but it's been awhile since I opened that book. I would like to actually chart out a blackwork design to stitch on a coif for myself, but that won't happen until I get some of my other projects done first. It would make it easier to chart something also if I could find largeer sheets of graphing paper. More than likely I will piece pages of graphing paper together. Roscelin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Boned Stuart bodices doublets (was: Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 139)
How odd that men's doublets are boned, yet the women's arent. Ref: Naomi Tarrant's Devel of Costume, p.109-110 photos showing the thick cardboard used to create the straight area between the chest and waist. The front edge is further stiffened by a whalebone. The doublet is 1630s, Natl Museum of Scotland. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oh, cool, another existant garment I didn't know about. I'll be trying to get a hold of this book next week, but in the mean time is this garment pictured anywhere on the net, or does anyone have a copy that they could scan and send me? thanks, Melusine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
re: [h-cost] 3 musketeers
I think some of you might have misunderstanded my explanations to this. I was not reffering to the movie picture costumes, but the cavallier style fashion for women. With the high waists. The reason why i want the bumroll to be laced to a bodice is that the dress waistline is so high over the natural waistline, that it simply couldnt be tied arround so high, without slipping down emediately. Bjarne I think I understood just fine. My Stuart gown is suitably high waisted. With my bumme sitting on my hips, the 4 (10cm) diameter bumme raises my waist considerably. There are only 6 betw my waist line and corseted bustline. Perhaps the lovely ladies that you dress are much taller long-waisted than I. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Lightbown's European Medieval Jewellery
On Thursday 16 February 2006 9:40 am, Betsy Marshall wrote: Can they do a re-issue on CD's? much cheaper to make multiple copies I would imagine; once the scanning and all is done. (OED went that route for at least one edition.) Having ILL'd this volume, yes it is huge, and yes it is glorious, but the pages were almost cardstock weight, and more of us have computers now... Just my .02 lira; Betsy If it were impossible to do a re-issue any other way, I would be happy to see Lightbown, or any other useful work, on CD-Rom. But the last time I purchased a costume-related work on CD-Rom I was very unhappy. The work, of course, was copy-protected, meaning that I could only read it on my computer, which I find awkward to do for long stretches. I would hate to have to read Lightbown that way. There's my tuppence. :-) -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] Physics is like sex; sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.--Richard Feynman ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] 3 musketeers
In either the 3 Musketeers or The 4 Musketeers, (I forget which one)the ones with Fay Dunaway and Michael York, there is a scene where Faye is undressing. I don't know if the undergarments are authentic or not, but it's a start. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cin Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 6:04 PM To: h-cost Subject: re: [h-cost] 3 musketeers I think some of you might have misunderstanded my explanations to this. I was not reffering to the movie picture costumes, but the cavallier style fashion for women. With the high waists. The reason why i want the bumroll to be laced to a bodice is that the dress waistline is so high over the natural waistline, that it simply couldnt be tied arround so high, without slipping down emediately. Bjarne I think I understood just fine. My Stuart gown is suitably high waisted. With my bumme sitting on my hips, the 4 (10cm) diameter bumme raises my waist considerably. There are only 6 betw my waist line and corseted bustline. Perhaps the lovely ladies that you dress are much taller long-waisted than I. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
Awesome! Thanks, Sheridan! That's the shirt I took my pattern from! ;o) --Sue - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses This isn't a pattern, but this is a picture of a shirt discussed in someone elses post, (I don't remember if anyone already posted the picture, sorry if this is redundant) :-) http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/elizabethan/boyshirt1540s.jpg You can clearly see the columbine pattern on the collar, very lovely. Sheridan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] American Civil War Confederate Uniform Pattern
Sorry about the double posting. I only sent it once - honest. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Lalah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Lalah [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:57:16 -0800 (PST) To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] American Civil War Confederate Uniform Pattern I doubt if half the subject showed up, but I wanted to be sure just which civil war (stupid name for a very uncivil action) and which side of the conflict I was researching. I have a multitude of pictures of Confederate uniforms, but would really love to have a decent pattern to start with. I don't need patterns for myself or most women, but have not done enough men's clothing to wing it. Does anyone know of a reasonably accurate pattern? Many thanks, Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender _ Netscape. just the net you need ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Netscape. just the net you need ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: civil war uniforms
In a message dated 2/16/06 11:56:53 PM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The problem with CW uniforms, in the south especially, is that a lot of men went to war with whatever clothing their wife sent them with. Sorry, but that's untrue, although it's an incredibly commonly believed myth, and one of my pet hates about re-enactment. During the very, very early part of the war it would have been accurate, but only for a matter of months, until clothing supply and issue was sorted out. And during the latter part of the war, uniforms may have become ragged, but they'd still have been uniforms (I've done quite a lot of research on acw uniforms for work, helped greatly by assorted people with access to the original stuff (and state records) in the states - plus of course, there's Don Troiani's fabulous books). Both the Confederate and Union armies were issued with clothing - true, the pattern and quality varied - true, it wasn't always regulation - true, it may have been badly fitting, due to the fairly common practise of marking up the sizes by suppliers so they could get more money for using less cloth, and true, it was augmented by clothing sent from home, and by a large number of privately purchased garments, (and true, union soldiers used to jump up and down on their hats so they could wear their own), but you only have to look at original photographs to realise that the uniform supply was hugely successful, on both sides, at least until the very later stages of the war. They don't look like a 'raggle-taggle band' - they look like an army. And it wasn't until the later stages of the war that things were really cut off - for example, a number of button manufacturers in the northern states, (at least one of which is still in existence (waterbury)), made buttons for both armies, supplying the Confederacy by shipping them to England, and employing blockade runners. A couple of English companies, (eg Firmans), did the same thing. This is confirmed by the company archives. Apparently, Hainsworths in Leeds also supplied both sides with woollen fabrics in a similar manner (archives again.) Anyway - getting off the soapbox :-), the county cloth patterns are based on originals (I've never used them personally, as they're for private use only, and I cut my own anyway, but I believe they're quite straight forward). Debbie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] American Civil War Confederate Uniform Pattern
Thanks to all of you who wrote. I have been making costumes in the medieval and Regency periods for several years, but haven't done any Civil War stuff before this. It should be interesting. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- kelly grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: kelly grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 19:55:42 -0400 To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] American Civil War Confederate Uniform Pattern Of the Smoke and Fire patterns, I would choose stock #RHF-701 for the shirt and #PI-775 for the trousers. While at the Halifax Citadel, who recreates the mid 19thC, we made clothes similar to these patterns. I did make confederate jackets for a couple of the guys to go to Gettysburg the big year. They wore them as 'undress' jackets with basic civi trousers and shirts, they went with the 'Authentic Movement' guys, the movement guys were impressed with their turn out. The pattern I used was from CountryCloth/Chas.R.Childs it was very good, the only thing I did was raise the front neck to a natural curve. I believe that he took a pattern from an existing garment, similar to the ones we had at the Citadel. The undress jackets will scoop out in the neck as they are worn due to the fact of the wool they are made of, without any stabilizing interlining. Hope that helps, if you have any questions, ask...I lived in that time period for several years ;-) Kelly in Nova Scotia Susan wrote: Check outhttp://www.smoke-fire.com/pattern-shop.htm Lalah wrote: of the conflict I was researching. I have a multitude of pictures of Confederate uniforms, but would really love to have a decent pattern to start with. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Netscape. just the net you need ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 10th - 11th C. German
On Thursday 16 February 2006 3:14 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope someone can assist me. One of the members of my household wants to take a look at what a 10th to the 11th C. German man would have worn. I tried to look through the net - but must not of worded my search correctly because I could not find anything. Try the page I have given the URL for below. There's a sumptious color picture of a royal dalmatic (i.e., a tunic) in the Kunsthistorische Museum, Vienna from about 1130 C.E. (it's about a third of the way down the page). An ordinary German man would not have worn anything of silk, or with such sumptuous embroidery, but the cut likely would have been similar. There's a black-and-white photo of an earlier German tunic on the same page, but there's a problem with the neckline as it's shown there--you'll see what I mean if you look at it. http://www.virtue.to/articles/extant.html Would the German people at this time be considered the Franks? No. The Franks had become associated with the area we now call France by then. Any suggestions would be helpful. I'm trying hard to get more of my group to join this list. :-) I highly recommend it! It's one of my favorite lists. -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] Physics is like sex; sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.--Richard Feynman ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tudor effigies and women walking
At 04:02 PM 2/16/2006, you wrote: Kimiko, have you tried wearing a wool petticoat under your farthingale? I find it helps when I'm out in the cold. But then I'm also the type that wears wool socks all year around, and sleep in flannel sheets all year too...I find they regulate my temp better than if I dressed for fashion;- Kelly Hi Kelly, No, I haven't done so, but with some wool I just found I think I will. You see, usually our faires are broiling hot, 90-115 degrees F. Sometimes, every once in awhile, we get rain or even snow! But that's so rare, that I usually don't have anything prepared for it other than my very old and ratty cape. But now that I am going to be doing a faire I know will be raining more often than not, I will make myself a new wool petticoat to keep my legs warm. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Amadeus
I hated the movies as well, and felt as if I was alone in that. I hated the costumes and the wigs, and I hated the made up story. Even more so in the fact that so many people dont get that movies about real people do nothave to be true! People do take them as gospel. Ron Carnegie - Original Message - From: Gail Scott Finke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:02 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Amadeus Bjarne: I don't remember the costumes from Amadeus very clearly, were they really that bad? I don't like that movie at all. I got the chance to hear the man who wrote the play speak once, and it made me so furious! I really don't mind what sort of messages people want to make in plays or movies, as long as they make up the stories. But I hate it when they use real people and change their life stories. The story of Amadeus has very little to do with the real Mozart. He did not live in terror of his father, he was very fond of him. And of course Salieri didn't kill him. I know we are all supposed to be sophisticated people who know the difference between a story and real life. But many, many people who are sophisticated enough to understand that Salieri didn't really murder Mozart still think, because of the movie or play, that his father was a terrible monster, and that he ended up in a pauper's grave. I think that is a terrible thing to do to someone's memory. Sigh. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 3 musketeers
In a message dated 2/16/2006 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In either the 3 Musketeers or The 4 Musketeers, (I forget which one)the ones with Fay Dunaway and Michael York, there is a scene where Faye is undressing. I don't know if the undergarments are authentic or not, but it's a start. It's a great scene...with the Duke of Buckingham undressing her. He takes the busk out of its casing and throws it over his shoulder. I think there's another scene with her inserting the busk into the corset somewhere too. I think the corset is a bit whimsical though. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Amadeus
In a message dated 2/16/2006 10:33:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Even more so in the fact that so many people dont get that movies about real people do nothave to be true! People do take them as gospel. Speaking of3 Musketeers is about real people toothe King of France and the Duke of Buckingham were real people but no one believes Dumas' story is true. Perhaps because the main characters are not real. But also, did anyone believe The Music Makers? or Listomania? [God bless Ken Russell]? Why would anyone believe Amadeus? But you're right, they do! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 3 musketeers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In either the 3 Musketeers or The 4 Musketeers, (I forget which one)the ones with Fay Dunaway and Michael York, there is a scene where Faye is undressing. I don't know if the undergarments are authentic or not, but it's a start. (sorry, didn't get the name of the person who answered below) It's a great scene...with the Duke of Buckingham undressing her. He takes the busk out of its casing and throws it over his shoulder. I think there's another scene with her inserting the busk into the corset somewhere too. I think the corset is a bit whimsical though. This corset reminds me of pictures I've seen of an iron corset from somewhere in the Elizabethan (I think) period. I think I remember reading somewhere that it was thought to be an orthopedic device of some sort. Anyway, while the busk is probably correct, and the bum roll most certainly is, I'm not really sure about that corset. I think it would look a bit different. Melusine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Amadeus
Speaking of3 Musketeers is about real people toothe King of France and the Duke of Buckingham were real people but no one believes Dumas' story is true. Perhaps because the main characters are not real. (snip) Actually, d'Artagnan was a real person, and was a member, eventually captain, of the King's Musketeers. However, the historical Charles de Batz-Castlemore d'Artagnan was born somewhere around 1625 and so most of his exploits were during the reign of Louis XIV, not Louis XIII. Athos, Porthos and Aramis were also historic characters, but there is no record of them ever meeting d'Artagnan, and as a matter of fact I believe that Athos was killed in a duel around the time d'Artagnan was born. I have friends who last year visited the part of Gascony that contains the town of Artagnan. The town museum is full of the information about the historical figure. There was also a rather fanciful biography written in the early 18th cen. that is where Dumas got the idea for his stories, but he most certainly played fast and loose with the time period and other facts. For instance, Cardinal Richelieu, far from being the villian portrayed in Dumas' stories, was arguably one of the greatest statesmen in France's history. Melusine (the Three Musketeers may be why I fell in love with this time period, but my research sure didn't stop there) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] tippets ... Fwd: [SCA-Garb] Nice gown! (Italian fresco)
Hey Robin! From the SCA garb list ... Can I forward this to the H-Costume list where Robin Netherton hangs out? She's way interested in tippets. Jerusha Sure. Please tell her it was pointed out by John Dillion on the Medieval Religion List. I'm sure she'll recognise his name. Hrothny A fresco on the wall of the hexagonal baptistery of San Giovanni Battista (said to be originally ninth-cent., with fifteenth- and sixteenth-century frescoes) showing the marriage of St. Catherine of Sienna. http://www.microlanitalia.com/exe/turismoimg.htm?t=4k1=6k2=1 === It's Italian, but dig those tippets! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 10th - 11th C. German
On Feb 16, 2006, at 12:14 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope someone can assist me. One of the members of my household wants to take a look at what a 10th to the 11th C. German man would have worn. I tried to look through the net - but must not of worded my search correctly because I could not find anything. Would the German people at this time be considered the Franks? Any suggestions would be helpful. I'm trying hard to get more of my group to join this list. :-) There are a few surviving garments form Germany during this era. On the ecclesiastical side, there are fairly extensive sets of grave clothes from St. Ulrich (at Augsburg) and from Pope Clement II (at Bamberg). Surviving secular clothing from 10-11th c. Germany primarily include some of the earliest items associated with the Holy Roman Emperors, including some embroidered bands from a tunic, several half-circular cloaks, and a pair of full length cloth hose. Publications covering some of these garments include: Bayerischen Nationalmuseum. 1955. Sakrale Gewänder des Mittelalters. Ausstellung im Bayerischen Nationalmuseum München. Bernhart, Joseph. 1955. Bischof Udalrich von Augsburg in Augusta: 955-1955. Verlag Hermann Rinn. Müller-Christensen, Sigrid. 1953. Konservierung alter Textilien in Deutsche Kunst und Denkmalpflege, 1953/1:28-35. Müller-Christensen, Sigrid. 1955. Die Konservierung der Augsburger Ulrichsgewänder in Deutsche Kunst und Denkmalpflege, 1955/2:111-116. Müller-Christensen, Sigrid. 1960. Das Grab des Papstes Clemens II. im Dom zu Bamberg. Verlag F. Bruckmann, München. Muthesius, Anna. 1997. Byzantine Silk Weaving AD 400 to AD 1200. Verlag Fassbaender, Vienna. Ritz, J.M. 1955. Ausstellung Sakraler Gewänder des Mittelalters in München in Deutsche Kunst und Denkmalpflege, 1955/2:117-120. Schramm, Percy Ernst Florentine Mutherich. 1962. Denkmale der deutschen Konige und Kaiser. Prestel Verlag, München. Textilien in Schwaben in Suevia Sacra. 1973.51-216, pl. 188-214. Wardwell, Anne E. 1974. Archaeology and Medieval Textiles given at Irene Emery Roundtable on Mueseum Textiles. Heather -- Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 10th - 11th C. German
On Feb 16, 2006, at 7:32 PM, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: On Thursday 16 February 2006 3:14 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope someone can assist me. One of the members of my household wants to take a look at what a 10th to the 11th C. German man would have worn. I tried to look through the net - but must not of worded my search correctly because I could not find anything. Try the page I have given the URL for below. There's a sumptious color picture of a royal dalmatic (i.e., a tunic) in the Kunsthistorische Museum, Vienna from about 1130 C.E. (it's about a third of the way down the page). An ordinary German man would not have worn anything of silk, or with such sumptuous embroidery, but the cut likely would have been similar. There's a black-and-white photo of an earlier German tunic on the same page, but there's a problem with the neckline as it's shown there--you'll see what I mean if you look at it. There isn't so much a problem with the neckline as that it's a rather unusually shaped neckline. The particular angle of the photograph is also not very good for seeing what's going on with the neck. Asymmetric side-opening necklines are quite common among the surviving garments of this era (what few there are). Heather -- Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet (columbines)
The top one is the on I was thinking about but it was not paired with another columbine pattern like this. The bottom pattern is on the shirt collar, I think. Thank you, De -Original Message- Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I forgot about this shirt with the columbines. The blackwork pattern that I am thinking of is from one of the German model books and is similar to the pattern on the shirt collar. On the Arizona site for Digital Archives for weaving, there's this book/article http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/articles/nb33_lac.pdf Early pattern books for lace and embroidery by Margaret Daniels on page 28, is a columbine pattern. Susan - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 10th - 11th C. German
On Friday 17 February 2006 12:11 am, Heather Rose Jones wrote: [snip] There isn't so much a problem with the neckline as that it's a rather unusually shaped neckline. The particular angle of the photograph is also not very good for seeing what's going on with the neck. Asymmetric side-opening necklines are quite common among the surviving garments of this era (what few there are). I'm familiar with asymmetric necklines (the color photograph on Cynthia Virtue's page to which I referred the original poster has one, in fact). But the black and white photo in question appears to have an extra band appearing in the middle of what looks like a *symmetrical* neckline. Definitely a bad camera angle, that. :-) -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] Physics is like sex; sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.--Richard Feynman ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Fancy Dress Described
Hello, We have two copies of this book, different editions: Fifth edition, 1887, and sixth edition, no date visible. Both seem to have all the plates. The sixth edition has six pages in the back of advertisement from Debenham Freebody, who would make up any of the dresses in the book for customers/clients. We also have Gentlemen's Fancy Dress - How to Choose It also by Ardern Holt, date is 1882. The preface indicates it came out at the time the third edition was in print. It has all its illustrations also, but none of them were done in color. It is much thinner than the women's books. It also contains ads for makers of the outfits, as well as hat and wig makers. Fun stuff!! Sandy Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm The Illusion of Historical Fact -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] tippets ... Fwd: [SCA-Garb] Nice gown! (Italian fresco)
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Susan Farmer wrote: Hey Robin! Thanks for thinking of me! A fresco on the wall of the hexagonal baptistery of San Giovanni Battista (said to be originally ninth-cent., with fifteenth- and sixteenth-century frescoes) showing the marriage of St. Catherine of Sienna. http://www.microlanitalia.com/exe/turismoimg.htm?t=4k1=6k2=1 === It's Italian, but dig those tippets! I'm still reeling from the off-the-shoulder neckline ... The tippets are definitely fun. The Italians did some really bizarre things in art at this time. Note that if this is really Catherine of Siena, the costume is deliberately archaic; Catherine of Siena died in 1380 and was not canonized till 1461. Howver, the Mystic Marriage scene shows up in art at least as early as 1340, in depictions of St. Catherine of Alexandria, well-established as a bride of Christ. I've heard that this attribution of the Mystic Marriage scene was a confusion with Catherine of Siena, but the earlier dates of the art seem to contradict that statement. In fact, every piece of art I know with the Mystic Marriage scene is presumed to show Catherine of Alexandria. So I don't know why some references insist that it's supposed to be Catherine of Siena. The lady here has a crown, which is one of CofA's attributes, but there's no sword or wheel, so it remains uncertain. However, it looks a lot more like CofA than CofS. CofS is typically shown with a lily, sometimes a heart and/or a book, and/or a crown of thorns, none of which are here. More important, CofS is usually shown in Dominican habit, and CofA in fashionable royal dress, and this is a lot closer to the latter. Anyway, if it's a deliberate archaism, the costume is modeled after earlier artworks (and probably significantly changed in details). However, I wouldn't be surprised if this is 14th c., and St. Catherine of Alexandria, re-attributed to Catherine of Siena. Which means it's just saint's costume and Italian, and could be anywhere on the continuum of real -- fanciful! I notice the stripes on the red tippets, which could be meant to indicate fur piecing... or could just be stripes, which I've never seen on tippets, but hey, it's Italian. The little bit of flip side we see on the left tippet shows an intriguing combination of white and red, which might mean that these are not separate-material band-and-streamer tippets, but sleeve extensions (pendant sleeves) from the white dress, with a red-striped or fur lining. The wide over-the-hand cuffs are quite intriguing, and might be a clue that we're dealing with a late-15th or 16th c. version of archaic dress, with mix-and-match features. But I would have to see other local images of dress to know whether this is a regionalism. I know very very little about Italian variants. They make my head ache. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 10th - 11th C. German
On Feb 16, 2006, at 9:29 PM, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: On Friday 17 February 2006 12:11 am, Heather Rose Jones wrote: [snip] There isn't so much a problem with the neckline as that it's a rather unusually shaped neckline. The particular angle of the photograph is also not very good for seeing what's going on with the neck. Asymmetric side-opening necklines are quite common among the surviving garments of this era (what few there are). I'm familiar with asymmetric necklines (the color photograph on Cynthia Virtue's page to which I referred the original poster has one, in fact). But the black and white photo in question appears to have an extra band appearing in the middle of what looks like a *symmetrical* neckline. Yeah, the decorative band has a deep V on the (viewer's) left, but then the right side of the V merges into a squared-off U on the right. The U part is deeper and is the actual opening. One problem in interpreting this garment is that -- if I'm remembering correctly -- the decorative bands are the only original elements and have been re-applied to different bodies over the years. Heather -- Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] colonial
Perhaps a very faint hint of color of purple/ blue (periwinkle?) for the dress material with eggshell white bows and underskirt. If you have the split, were you thinking of a quilted underskirt or leaving it plan? For a split skirt, I would decorate the underskirt or make it a different color. I was thinking of making a quilted underskirt but it may just be a petticoat that I can use later with a pet-en-l'air jacket or something like that. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
