Re: [h-cost] Met Museum Bulletin
Trying to send the scans took down Outlook and crashed the computer (Microsoft is blaming Norton, who's blaming Verizon, who's blaming Microsoft, and so on). Everything is restored except for a few e-mails. We're going to do this the old-fashioned way. If you want the scans, send me your mailing address and I'll send you one of the CD's I made while on perpetual hold with customer support tonight. You'll just have to have all the pictures... -Helen/Aidan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] construction ?
Had a quick peek- looks like the blue front is a wide ribbon tracing an ascending figure 8 path, with a bit of ease to make it look puffy, or maybe it is lightly stuffed after/as it is sewn down? Mostly a guess on my part- this dress is _so_ not my period. HTH, Betsy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan B. Farmer Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:34 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] construction ? Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Anyone have an idea as to how the blue on the plastron is constructed? Is it a section on material that has a wee bit of gather in the center and clipped on the sides? http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/l/p-liotard2.htm You know it's *really* late when you look at that painting and the *first* thought that goes through your brain is, Oh, look. She's wearing a Mickey Mouse Watch . *blink* going to bed now. susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Gack! Is she pregnant or is she not? Need your opinions!
She has the same shape my dolly does when i have the wheel farthingale and outfit on her. I think it's just the style of the underpinnings Kelly An insolent reply from a polite person is a bad sign. Hippocrates (c.460-c.370 bc), Greek physician From: Saragrace Knauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Gack! Is she pregnant or is she not? Need your opinions! Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:00:47 -0700 I just sat down to start drafting the underpinnings for this gown http://www.saragrace.us/images/GoldenAge/PAM_PICS/Overall.JPGhttp://www.saragrace.us/images/GoldenAge/PAM_PICS/Overall.JPG and all of a sudden realized the gown does not seem symmetrically round. Doesn't this seem much further out in the front than everywhere else? Do you think she is pregnant? Seems a little low for pregnancy. Thanks! Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Enter the Telus Mobility Xbox a Day contest for your chance to WIN! Telus Mobility is giving away an Microsoft Xbox® 360 every day from November 20 to December 31, 2006! Just download Windows Live (MSN) Messenger to your IM-capable TELUS mobile phone, and you could be a winner! http://www.telusmobility.com/msnxbox/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] construction ?
It looks to me like a stomacher, with the blue ribbon as an applied decoration. The ribbon is not functional. The gown closes by pinning it to the stomacher, and the ruching would hide the pins nicely. So to construct it, make a stomacher and noodle around with the ribbon until it looks nice. I've seen stomachers with ribbon applied criss-cross (faux lacing), and this just looks like a much fatter ribbon being used. -Carol Anyone have an idea as to how the blue on the plastron is constructed? Is it a section on material that has a wee bit of gather in the center and clipped on the sides? http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/l/p-liotard2.htm De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Met Museum Bulletin
Dear Helen/Aidan, I would love any scans of the early 1800's. I am sorry for your computer problems. I had a bout myself what with Norton stashing emails in a previously undiscovered folder, and an ink cartridge that insists that it's been improperly installed. Computers...they should all be consigned to the deep. Thank you! Do you need postage? Marjorie PS. You might want my address. It's PO Box 31, East Poland, Maine 04230 Marjorie Gilbert author of THE RETURN, a historical novel set in Georgian England www.marjoriegilbert.net Creating a Circa 1798 - 1805 Empire Gown http://marjoriegilbert.net/album_30_028.htm - Original Message - From: Helen Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:55 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Met Museum Bulletin Trying to send the scans took down Outlook and crashed the computer (Microsoft is blaming Norton, who's blaming Verizon, who's blaming Microsoft, and so on). Everything is restored except for a few e-mails. We're going to do this the old-fashioned way. If you want the scans, send me your mailing address and I'll send you one of the CD's I made while on perpetual hold with customer support tonight. You'll just have to have all the pictures... -Helen/Aidan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] is she pregnant or what
She is not pregnant, as Kipar says, i have also seen many many fotos with this fashion. It is simply the look wich was fashionable then. Bjarne I just sat down to start drafting the underpinnings for this gown http://www.saragrace.us/images/GoldenAge/PAM_PICS/Overall.JPGhttp://www.saragrace.us/images/GoldenAge/PAM_PICS/Overall.JPGhttp://www.saragrace.us/images/GoldenAge/PAM_PICS/Overall.JPGhttp://www.saragrace.us/images/GoldenAge/PAM_PICS/Overall.JPG and all of a sudden realized the gown does not seem symmetrically round. Doesn't this seem much further out in the front than everywhere else? Do you think she is pregnant? Seems a little low for pregnancy. Thanks! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Gack! Is she pregnant or is she not? Need your opinions!
Hi, Its the stomacher wich is unususually in shape, its longated with shaping to lie over a padded roll wich goes all way round the waist. Bjarne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 2:41 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gack! Is she pregnant or is she not? Need your opinions! In a message dated 13/12/2006 00:13:53 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.saragrace.us/images/GoldenAge/PAM_PICS/Overall.JPG Doesn't this seem much further out in the front than everywhere else? Do you think she is pregnant? Seems a little low for pregnancy. It's hard to say. The shaping is incredibly common in other portraits of the same time. Hip padding was around at the time - so it could be that, continued over the belly. But then again, it is perfectly possible that it's the painting just isn't very well drawn. It's also quite likely that she would be pregnant (thank the lord I'm alive now!!). It's also possible that she's trying to look as though she were pregnant - it's been fashionable more than once or twice. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Gack! Is she pregnant or is she not? Need your opinions!
Quoting Carolyn Kayta Barrows [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Do you think she is pregnant? Seems a little low for pregnancy. I'd say she wasn't. Since it might be useful to compare to a pregnant woman . Here's a painting that's just a tad earlier where Margharite *is* pregnant http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Paintings/gonzalez_MargheritaAustria.jpg jerusha - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] construction ?
Hi I think its just the ribbon wich has ben cut to pieces, then the ends is turned back and its stitched in the middle of the ribbon to the stomacher. Interresting with that blue collour! Bjarne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] construction ? It looks to me like a stomacher, with the blue ribbon as an applied decoration. The ribbon is not functional. The gown closes by pinning it to the stomacher, and the ruching would hide the pins nicely. So to construct it, make a stomacher and noodle around with the ribbon until it looks nice. I've seen stomachers with ribbon applied criss-cross (faux lacing), and this just looks like a much fatter ribbon being used. -Carol Anyone have an idea as to how the blue on the plastron is constructed? Is it a section on material that has a wee bit of gather in the center and clipped on the sides? http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/l/p-liotard2.htm De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Gack! Is she pregnant or is she not? Need your opinions!
It could be that the wearer is pregnant and it looks like the stomacher
and maybe the bodice is cut to allow this. Probably laced so, which the
surcoat would cover any gaps in the stomacher/bodice lacing. Or it could
be she is wearing the latest fad in stomachers. During the 15th century,
there are portraits, brasses, and drawings where high-waisted gowns not
only made women look pregnant(see the Antirfoni{sorry
spelling!))Marriage but women are often depicted posed as if they were.
Pregnancy was a desirable state to be painted in as most women who could
afford to be painted were pregnant.
Since women couldn't just whip out to the mall or buy a prepproduced
pattern, they adapted what they had in their wardrobes. Colonial
Williamsburg has a three-piece ensemble that could be worn before,
during and after pregnancy with drawstrings and adjustable lacing.
Cindy Abel
___
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Met Museum Bulletin
Hi Helen/Aiden, Yes, I agree with Marjorie on the computer stuff. Working from one platform to another is often frustrating. My first question when I read your message was, does she need postage. Do you? My address: Lynn Downward 442-48th Street #B Oakland, CA 94609 On 12/13/06, Gilbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Helen/Aidan, I would love any scans of the early 1800's. I am sorry for your computer problems. I had a bout myself what with Norton stashing emails in a previously undiscovered folder, and an ink cartridge that insists that it's been improperly installed. Computers...they should all be consigned to the deep. Thank you! Do you need postage? Marjorie PS. You might want my address. It's PO Box 31, East Poland, Maine 04230 Marjorie Gilbert author of THE RETURN, a historical novel set in Georgian England www.marjoriegilbert.net Creating a Circa 1798 - 1805 Empire Gown http://marjoriegilbert.net/album_30_028.htm - Original Message - From: Helen Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:55 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Met Museum Bulletin Trying to send the scans took down Outlook and crashed the computer (Microsoft is blaming Norton, who's blaming Verizon, who's blaming Microsoft, and so on). Everything is restored except for a few e-mails. We're going to do this the old-fashioned way. If you want the scans, send me your mailing address and I'll send you one of the CD's I made while on perpetual hold with customer support tonight. You'll just have to have all the pictures... -Helen/Aidan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] construction ?
Thank you, everyone. I had a brain [EMAIL PROTECTED] and said plastron and not stomacher. :P I think the ribbon in figure eights is what it probably is. Bjarne, here is a painting of the woman's husband in the same blue. http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/l/p-liotard3.htm They're Swiss, so the watch humor was even more humorous to me. :) Thank you, De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Gack! Is she pregnant or is she not? Need your opinions!
Hi, I dunno about being pregnant. She has too long of a straight torso in my opinion. I am 7 months pregnant now... My roundness starts much higher under my bosom than this ladies roundness It could be my short body type... But I vote that this is the way the long bodice is laying over the cartridge wheel.. Just my 2 cents :) -annette ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] construction ?
Hi again, His shirt buttons are even more interresting to me. Its dorset buttons ( linnen thread buttons). Wich i have on mine two. Could this collour be a trick for the pastel collours. Its just the same blue as the wifes, and its a very vivid blue. Bjarne - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 6:28 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] construction ? Thank you, everyone. I had a brain [EMAIL PROTECTED] and said plastron and not stomacher. :P I think the ribbon in figure eights is what it probably is. Bjarne, here is a painting of the woman's husband in the same blue. http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/l/p-liotard3.htm They're Swiss, so the watch humor was even more humorous to me. :) Thank you, De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Gack! Is she pregnant or is she not? Need your opinions!
Another portrait, similar in style, but a little later, She has the same
kind of bodice-peplum and stomacher, but the roll is not as big as the other
one posted. This is a replika from a larger portrait, where she is with 3 of
her daughters and a son, the girls wear same type of dress as the mother.
It is Kirsten Munk, the wife of Christian IV of Denmark.
http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/asp/person/BigPicPage.asp?PersonID=25countryID=1PersonTypeID=6
Painted 1620ies.
Bjarne
- Original Message -
From: Abel, Cynthia [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: RE: [h-cost] Gack! Is she pregnant or is she not? Need your
opinions!
It could be that the wearer is pregnant and it looks like the stomacher
and maybe the bodice is cut to allow this. Probably laced so, which the
surcoat would cover any gaps in the stomacher/bodice lacing. Or it could
be she is wearing the latest fad in stomachers. During the 15th century,
there are portraits, brasses, and drawings where high-waisted gowns not
only made women look pregnant(see the Antirfoni{sorry
spelling!))Marriage but women are often depicted posed as if they were.
Pregnancy was a desirable state to be painted in as most women who could
afford to be painted were pregnant.
Since women couldn't just whip out to the mall or buy a prepproduced
pattern, they adapted what they had in their wardrobes. Colonial
Williamsburg has a three-piece ensemble that could be worn before,
during and after pregnancy with drawstrings and adjustable lacing.
Cindy Abel
___
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
___
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Christian IV of Denmark was: Gack! Is she pregnant or is she not? Need your opinions!
On 12/13/06, Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another portrait, similar in style, but a little later, She has the same kind of bodice-peplum and stomacher, but the roll is not as big as the other one posted. This is a replika from a larger portrait, where she is with 3 of her daughters and a son, the girls wear same type of dress as the mother. Bjarne, I know I could probably find this if I dug, but I thought you might know or can get this info a little easier... Do you know the names of the daughters and approx year of birth? There is a doll reported to have belong to one of these girls and I was wondering if it might be possible to get a better guess which one it was... thanks alex ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Christian IV of Denmark was: Gack! Is she pregnant or isshe not? Need your opinions!
Hi Alex Are you sure its the same picture? I know a certain portrait from same period where the girls are holding dolls in their hands, but its not the same portrait. In this portrait they have no dolls. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/kirstenmunk.htm Bjarne - Original Message - From: Alexandria Doyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 8:54 PM Subject: [h-cost] Christian IV of Denmark was: Gack! Is she pregnant or isshe not? Need your opinions! On 12/13/06, Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another portrait, similar in style, but a little later, She has the same kind of bodice-peplum and stomacher, but the roll is not as big as the other one posted. This is a replika from a larger portrait, where she is with 3 of her daughters and a son, the girls wear same type of dress as the mother. Bjarne, I know I could probably find this if I dug, but I thought you might know or can get this info a little easier... Do you know the names of the daughters and approx year of birth? There is a doll reported to have belong to one of these girls and I was wondering if it might be possible to get a better guess which one it was... thanks alex ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Christian IV of Denmark was: Gack! Is she pregnant or isshe not? Need your opinions!
It wasn't a painting that I was thinking of, but the so called fashion doll in QEWU that I was thinking to be credited to one of Christian's daughters, dated about 1598 iirc. I'll have to go look at that again, because if this portrait is dated to 1620, then it's not these girl's toy... Maybe Christian's sister? Did he have one or more sisters? thanks alex On 12/13/06, Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Alex Are you sure its the same picture? I know a certain portrait from same period where the girls are holding dolls in their hands, but its not the same portrait. In this portrait they have no dolls. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/kirstenmunk.htm Bjarne - Original Message - From: Alexandria Doyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 8:54 PM Subject: [h-cost] Christian IV of Denmark was: Gack! Is she pregnant or isshe not? Need your opinions! On 12/13/06, Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another portrait, similar in style, but a little later, She has the same kind of bodice-peplum and stomacher, but the roll is not as big as the other one posted. This is a replika from a larger portrait, where she is with 3 of her daughters and a son, the girls wear same type of dress as the mother. Bjarne, I know I could probably find this if I dug, but I thought you might know or can get this info a little easier... Do you know the names of the daughters and approx year of birth? There is a doll reported to have belong to one of these girls and I was wondering if it might be possible to get a better guess which one it was... thanks alex ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 0f belts and hanging sleeves
I spent a space of time this AM trying again to grapple with the problem...with QEWU and Hunnisette open before me...and the doll/maninqin with the garment pieces . I understand what you suggest about the idea of an open sleeveless robe. This was my first idea. After reading Hunnisette and her design for the film with Glenda Jackson, I see that her design was compromised by reason of budget.And that she holds the interpretation of the red to be an additional skirt incorperating the gold tissue as is described by Arnold in QEWU. Very confusing! Kathleen, That's sad to see what is supposed to be an outrageously cool dress cut back for budget reasons. Second skirt *that* far back on the body? In one of the few pictures with multiple views, Bal at the court of Henri III, 1581, you can see that there are only single layered skirts. Yeah, yeah, different country, I'm off by a few years, yadda, yadda... but the Ditchley is allegorical. And in allegory anythng is fair game. Sure lots of other ladies had openings in the skirt front, but they arent wearing them *that* far open in the portraits. It seems almost lewd to do so. (Oh dear, the closet Victorian has gotten out!) It's an interesting possibility, and an excellent excuse for a more elaborate or even scenic forepart. I'll be on the lookout for something that indicates a wider gap, but for now, all the really wide foreparts seem to be wide because they were added onto in later periods (e.g. the 18th c) and reused. For the shape of the hanging sleeve, have you looked at some of the transparent, probably gauze, sleeves. I find it easier to see the cut since you can see the back edge gathers thru the front of the sleeve. There's a c1600 unknown lady hanging at the NY Met. Portrait of a noblewoman is the unhelpful title. Her sleeve is very ruffled. These hanging sleeves extend pass the lower edge of the 3/4 portrait. There's another Unknown Lady by an unknown artist, c.1603, at Cowdray Park. I think JArnold shows here in QEWU (I dont have it handy) and it's in The Embroiderer's Art. She's got pyramids or obelisks embroidered on the border of her skirt. Her gauze or lace sleeves hang to the floor. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] question about a book
Hi Penny-- If you contact the publisher (Fairchild) and you are using the book as a class text, they will send you the instructors CD and Quiz book. Most people don't know about them, but I am here in NYC the Land of Fashion. Periodically the publishers do a book fair at our school. Monica -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Penny Ladnier Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:38 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about a book Monica, What is on the CD? My book didn't come with the CD. I guess the previous owner kept it. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] construction ?
Watch? Isn't that a miniature (portrait)? --Ruth Anne -Original Message- From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Dec 13, 2006 12:28 PM To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [h-cost] construction ? Thank you, everyone. I had a brain [EMAIL PROTECTED] and said plastron and not stomacher. :P I think the ribbon in figure eights is what it probably is. Bjarne, here is a painting of the woman's husband in the same blue. http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/l/p-liotard3.htm They're Swiss, so the watch humor was even more humorous to me. :) Thank you, De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 0f belts and hanging sleeves
Re the possible use of a white gown (or parts) over red, Hunnisette does give this as one explanation in her discussion of making this gown up for ERI. For myself. I haven't seen any color copy that has the proper resolution to make this same theory. I have been working with all the photos I can find, including*pages 44-47 in QEWU. After fiddling around with my little mock-ups, I have had some further success by following Cindy Able's directions . Not 100%, but better. Thank you all for your inputs. Kathleen - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 12:09 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 0f belts and hanging sleeves Cin wrote: Another small query, what is the visible red one can see throught the space beneath the left arm? This was originally why I thought I was seeing this Cape. My guess, and I'm no expert, the red with all the pleating is the back of the skirt seen in shadow, while the white/gray triangle above the red is the interior of an open robe. When I drape my open robe over the drum I get a bit of squnch back there that looks like pooling water instead of rayed pleats. Admittedly, I'm looking at a 6x9 color photo, not the real portrait. I disagree, I don't think there is an open robe over the gown. What I see in QEWU and the online images is a white gown with an open red overgown. (Pardon me if my terms are wrong). If you look at the bottom of the hanging sleeve on the viewer's left you can see the red which is also visible under the left arm, this is what's on the back of the sleeve. The same red is visible on the right of the bodice, just behind the pearls, and it's visible as a red overskirt in the space under her arms. Or maybe I should say she is wearing a red gown with an elaborate white stomacher and petticoat which match her sleeves and the lining of her oversleeves. If you look at the copies of the Ditchley portrait which are on the following pages (44-47) in QEWU you can see it even better. The grey background under her arms looks like the same grey that is used above her head, but then my image sources may not be color-tuned correctly. The red is very clear to me though. Sorry, I can't help you with the set of the sleeves. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] construction ?
Someone mentioned that they knew they were tired when they thought the portrait bracelet was a Mickey Mouse watch. De -Original Message- Watch? Isn't that a miniature (portrait)? --Ruth Anne -Original Message- They're Swiss, so the watch humor was even more humorous to me. :) Thank you, De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] construction ?
The period is just a passing interest so I don't know much about it but I think I have seen this bright of blue in either an embroidery piece or a piece of material from roughly that period but I can't remember where or when. I have been focusing on ceramics of late and when searching the web I come across these sort of things and file them in my mind. I am planning on modifying Simplicity 4092, the gold dress A. I periodically look for ideas for the stomacher area and liked the blue design in the picture. De -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 1:18 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] construction ? Hi again, His shirt buttons are even more interresting to me. Its dorset buttons ( linnen thread buttons). Wich i have on mine two. Could this collour be a trick for the pastel collours. Its just the same blue as the wifes, and its a very vivid blue. Bjarne - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 6:28 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] construction ? Thank you, everyone. I had a brain [EMAIL PROTECTED] and said plastron and not stomacher. :P I think the ribbon in figure eights is what it probably is. Bjarne, here is a painting of the woman's husband in the same blue. http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/l/p-liotard3.htm They're Swiss, so the watch humor was even more humorous to me. :) Thank you, De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
