[h-cost] Five Rivers Blog
As part of our new website, we now have an interactive blog available, where the monthly newsletter, surveys, and general comments will, and can, be posted. Come and visit. Let us know what you're thinking. Leave comments about our most recent survey. And we still have a modest number of sewing patterns and re-enactor supplies available, all at 60% discount! Regards, Lorina Stephens Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - www.5rivers.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] movie costumes
I know it's naalbinding/nalbinding but did not know what the Coptics called it so I did not want to call it naalbinding. I guess I could have said a form of needle knitting that the Scandinavians refer to as naalbinding :) De -Original Message- The Coptic's had a form of needle knitting and to my understanding a form of macramé' was known in Egypt. It's called naalbinding, and is almost identical to knitting except that it's done with a threaded needle. The thread follows almost the same path as it does in knitting, except that the worker has to thread a new needle every once in a while. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] movie costumes
At 12:04 PM 1/2/2007, you wrote: The Coptic's had a form of needle knitting and to my understanding a form of macramé' was known in Egypt. They also knew how to dye their fabrics. This is a start. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/fabrics.htm http://africanhistory.about.com/od/hieroglyphs/a/ColorTech.htm What makes you think that they were so primitive as to not know how to dye fabrics? De Until the addition of wool (and possibly cotton) to the fabrics used in Egypt, linen was the fabric, and linen does not dye very easily. Where colored clothing is shown in the tomb paintings, it is obvious that they individuals portrayed are foreigners who we know from other evidence used wool (which dyes beautifully and easily). To add color to outfits, the Egyptians used netted overdresses with various sorts of beads. So a white linen dress with an netted beaded overdress would be likely. A colored linen dress is not seen in any of the tomb paintings or in the tombs where linens (including clothing) were found. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] (no subject)
Final Clearance on Patterns and Re-enactor Supplies! We've deep discounted our remaining stock of historical sewing patterns and re-enactor supplies to 75%! At these prices you can't go wrong! Cooperage Update Gary is still working on the few remaining cooperage orders he has, and is looking forward to opening for orders, and even having a bit of stock, around mid-year. Recipes of a Dumb Housewife We now have all the testers we need for Lorina's upcoming recipe book, Recipes of a Dumb Housewife. Revisions will take place during February, and a publication date tentatively set for March or April. We'll keep you posted about cost and pre-order information! Happy New Year As always, Gary and Lorina wish you all a contented, prosperous and healthy New Year. Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - www.5rivers.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Met Museum Bulletin
I'm late checking my email. I would love to have any books that needs a good home especially garments from the 15th century up. Lady Von Hope I am not to late! - Original Message - From: Helen Pinto To: Historical Costume Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 11:18 PM Subject: [h-cost] Met Museum Bulletin In the process of (finally) unpacking my books, I've been finding things that could use a home other than mine. I have a Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin from back in the days when they sent members these glossy books every quarter. It's from the costume collection and contains large, high-quality pictures of garments from 1695 through the early 1950's, including microphotographs of some of the embroidered detail of the garments. It's nice to look at, but way past anything I'm really interested in. So... I will scan and send photos of anything that someone fancies, and the whole thing can belong to the first person who asks for it. (You have two weeks to ask for the pictures, then I'll mail it.) The highlights: - Complete embroidered woman's dress from 1695 - Four men's 18th c embroidered coats, one uncut, one with original embroidery cartoon, one with pants and vest - Men's banyans - Assorted women's 18c dresses, one with panniers, most sack-backed, all embroidered or hand-painted, 1740's - 1795 - Assorted women's 19c outfits, day dresses, evening wear, several from each decade - Assorted women's 20c outfits, evening wear, suits, etc, up to the 50's -Helen/Aidan - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com - Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
See, for me, it wouldn't have been convincing at all, given the (to me) obvious visual clues. We'll all pick up on different things, depending on our levels of interest/expertise, etc. I'm betting that most people in the intended audience of the movies discussed earlier in the thread would have the same reaction to peasants in burlap as you do to an Egyptian queen wearing clothing centuries, if not actual millenia, out of date. --Sue - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes In a message dated 1/2/2007 7:52:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Well it may have been crocheted...or just knotted in some waybut you get the idea. I'm remembering, or trying to, something from long ago. * Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? ** Good question. But in this case, I don't care. This was TV... a movie, not a museum piece. And she still looked great and totally convincing. It's Potiphar's wife y'know. She doesn't even have a name as far as I know. And he was sexy and seductive, as per her theatrical purpose. It was beautiful! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
In a message dated 1/2/2007 3:09:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What makes you think that they were so primitive as to not know how to dye fabrics? *** I don't think that is what the poster meant. I think it was a reference to all the white linen we've found in tombs. White certainly was prevalent. Considering the climate, I can see why. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
On Jan 2, 2007, at 5:00 AM, Sue Clemenger wrote: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes In the one about Joseph, Potiphar and his wife look fantastic! If I remembershe was in a sheer coral red crinkled gauze shift to her feet that had a turquoise knitted over dress, very open in its working, that made the whole thing appear like a coral and turquoise geometric patterned tube that clung tightly to the body. The naked body showed thru the bright gauze and the open work knitted shift had bits of gold bobbles worked into it...and it ended in tied tassels at her ankles. She wore that familiar wig, like a big hair helmet with hammered gold leaves that dangled and shimmered all over it. The dark cole eyes and red lipsshe looked like she stepped off a Pyramid wall! Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? --Sue From the description, it sounds like it might have been inspired by a surviving Egyptian bead net dress -- a very open network made of threaded beads. The one I'm thinking of is basically a tubular sheath with shoulder straps and at the bottom hem it has a fringe of dangling flower-shaped beads. _Might_ -- I'd have to see the original to know if the suspicion holds up. There's a rather dark photograph of the item I'm thinking of about halfway down the page at: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/sexuality.html Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
Did I *ever* say, or intimate that Egyptians were primitive? Huh? Wherever did you get *that* idea? I asked if there was any evidence of *linens* being dyed *at that time.* Linens are notoriously difficult to dye using natural dyes. Good grief. --Sue - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 1:04 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] movie costumes The Coptic's had a form of needle knitting and to my understanding a form of macramé' was known in Egypt. They also knew how to dye their fabrics. This is a start. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/fabrics.htm http://africanhistory.about.com/od/hieroglyphs/a/ColorTech.htm What makes you think that they were so primitive as to not know how to dye fabrics? De -Original Message- Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? --Sue ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Another film costume rant
Two programmes on British TV over Christmas showed Victorian brides in sleeveless dresses. One was the film of Nicholas Nickleby, the other a version of Dracula. Dammit, you wear DAY clothes to a wedding! (or used to.) Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] name of a hat?
What is the correct name of the medieval hat commonly referred to as the coffee filter hat? It looks like a sailor's hat without any crown and usually involves a chin strap and a hair net. I finished one over the holidays. Looks pretty good but I don't know what to call it so I can turn it in as an arts project GG Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Egypt Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
Nalbinding, the sort that looks like crossed-loop knitting, can be told from knitting by the way it increases and decreases. Dorothy Burnham wrote an excellent article where she analyzed 'ancient Egyptian knitting' and traced the thread path to prove all extant pieces she analyzed to be nalbinding. It was used for small pieces where shaping is very useful, such as socks, and other small pieces, which might be purses or other little items. The netted dresses from Egypt were, to my limited knowledge, made of strung beads, often faiance (man, can't spell that word, sort of glass that didn't get melted quite all the way) or what we'd now term semi-precious stone, and some gold mixed in. The Egyptians, by all accounts, really prized their beautiful white linen, which bleaches so beautifully. They wished, by and large, their costumes' color to come from the jewelry. Ann in CT --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's called naalbinding, and is almost identical to knitting except that it's done with a threaded needle. The thread follows almost the same path as it does in knitting, except that the worker has to thread a new needle every once in a while. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
You mean nalbinding? I don't believe there's any evidence of it being used for larger items of clothing, such as dresses. I know of socks, and a hat. No dresses. --Sue - Original Message - From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. The Coptic people did a thing that looked a lot like knitting. Is this movie example something so far off? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] name of a hat?
barbette and fillet? In a message dated 03/01/2007 14:24:07 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Message: 13 Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:47:34 -0800 (PST) From: Julie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] name of a hat? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 What is the correct name of the medieval hat commonly referred to as the coffee filter hat? It looks like a sailor's hat without any crown and usually involves a chin strap and a hair net. I finished one over the holidays. Looks pretty good but I don't know what to call it so I can turn it in as an arts project GG Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] name of a hat?
DunnoI've always heard them referred to in informal terms--coffee filter hat, pie-crust hat, etc., depending on the particular style. You might look at the hat section in Cynthia Virtue's website--I recall seeing hat-ish stuff there in the past. --Sue - Original Message - From: Julie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 5:47 PM Subject: [h-cost] name of a hat? What is the correct name of the medieval hat commonly referred to as the coffee filter hat? It looks like a sailor's hat without any crown and usually involves a chin strap and a hair net. I finished one over the holidays. Looks pretty good but I don't know what to call it so I can turn it in as an arts project GG Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
When did this evidence about Egyptian beaded net dresses surface? I never heard of it before nor is it in my old costume history books. It's been decades since I studied the history of costume, but since I'm going to be teaching it this January I'd really like to keep up on recent developments. Sylrog On Jan 2, 2007, at 9:34 PM, Heather Rose Jones wrote: From the description, it sounds like it might have been inspired by a surviving Egyptian bead net dress -- a very open network made of threaded beads. The one I'm thinking of is basically a tubular sheath with shoulder straps and at the bottom hem it has a fringe of dangling flower-shaped beads. _Might_ -- I'd have to see the original to know if the suspicion holds up. There's a rather dark photograph of the item I'm thinking of about halfway down the page at: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/sexuality.html Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
A beaded/netted overgown? How cool is that? ;o) I hadn't heard of that intriguing garment, so thanks to you and the other poster who mentioned it. I can see now why the designers of AlbertCat's movie might have tried to imitate it. --Sue - Original Message - From: Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes On Jan 2, 2007, at 5:00 AM, Sue Clemenger wrote: Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? --Sue From the description, it sounds like it might have been inspired by a surviving Egyptian bead net dress -- a very open network made of threaded beads. The one I'm thinking of is basically a tubular sheath with shoulder straps and at the bottom hem it has a fringe of dangling flower-shaped beads. _Might_ -- I'd have to see the original to know if the suspicion holds up. There's a rather dark photograph of the item I'm thinking of about halfway down the page at: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/sexuality.html Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 1870s buttons....
I have a question for you 19th century types, born out of completely idle curiosity. This Christmas, I was given a lovely bracelet comprising different buttons from the 1870s. They are all about 1/2 inch in diameter, and have surprisingly complex and lovely designs in them. They are made of cut steel and brass, with occasional tiny flecks of what looks like marcasite, and are fairly hefty in weight for their size (because of the metal, I'm guessing). What on earth would something like that have been used on? The garment fabric would have to be pretty substantial to not deform or tear from the weight --Sue in Montana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] name of a hat?
Having been up for 5 minutes, my brain isn't working yet, but you might google 'Cynthia Virtue website'--she has a bunch of info on them and other period hats, incl. how to make them. Arlys On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:47:34 -0800 (PST) Julie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What is the correct name of the medieval hat commonly referred to as the coffee filter hat? It looks like a sailor's hat without any crown and usually involves a chin strap and a hair net. I finished one over the holidays. Looks pretty good but I don't know what to call it so I can turn it in as an arts project GG Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] 1870s buttons....
These sound like typical bodice buttons for a woman's dress. And there wold have been a lot of them used--think of a row of small buttons all down the front. A Victorian bodice was a substantial garment, with at least 2 layers of fabric, plus boning. Wish I had the button jar your bracelet came from! Kim in ND -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 9:30 AM To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] 1870s buttons I have a question for you 19th century types, born out of completely idle curiosity. This Christmas, I was given a lovely bracelet comprising different buttons from the 1870s. They are all about 1/2 inch in diameter, and have surprisingly complex and lovely designs in them. They are made of cut steel and brass, with occasional tiny flecks of what looks like marcasite, and are fairly hefty in weight for their size (because of the metal, I'm guessing). What on earth would something like that have been used on? The garment fabric would have to be pretty substantial to not deform or tear from the weight --Sue in Montana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Met Museum Bulletin
In a message dated 1/3/2007 9:17:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: have a Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin from back in the days when they sent members these glossy books every quarter. It's from the costume collection and contains large, high-quality pictures of garments from 1695 through the early 1950's, *** Is that the one with the beautiful Regency gown of white mull with poofs all over it worn with a huge beige bonnet...and a child in a white gown...on the cover? I have that one somewhere. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
There is one at the MFA in Boston, it was conserved several years ago, when I worked there or just before. I might have a picture somewhere in an old bulletin. It was beautiful beads in blues mostly as I recall. Katy On 1/3/07, Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When did this evidence about Egyptian beaded net dresses surface? I never heard of it before nor is it in my old costume history books. It's been decades since I studied the history of costume, but since I'm going to be teaching it this January I'd really like to keep up on recent developments. Sylrog On Jan 2, 2007, at 9:34 PM, Heather Rose Jones wrote: From the description, it sounds like it might have been inspired by a surviving Egyptian bead net dress -- a very open network made of threaded beads. The one I'm thinking of is basically a tubular sheath with shoulder straps and at the bottom hem it has a fringe of dangling flower-shaped beads. _Might_ -- I'd have to see the original to know if the suspicion holds up. There's a rather dark photograph of the item I'm thinking of about halfway down the page at: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/sexuality.html Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
In a message dated 1/3/2007 10:16:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A beaded/netted overgown? How cool is that? ;o) *** I thought so. I mean it's better than Liz Taylor or Claudette Colbert [though their costumes for their Cleopatras have their own amazing qualities] Watch Someone will dig up this Joseph thing and the gown will actually be white with a coral and turquoise overdress! Like I said, I'm trying to remember something I saw once quite a while ago. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1870s buttons....
In a message dated 1/3/2007 10:22:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What on earth would something like that have been used on? The garment fabric would have to be pretty substantial to not deform or tear from the weight They might go down the front of one of those boned-to-death high necked bodices. These things are quite substantiallined, innerlined, stabilized, and boned... and not easy to deform. Often the buttons go from neck to hem of the bodice, set close together. In princess gowns of the mid 1870's, they might go to the floor. Or they could be used for outer wear...a redingote or something. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1870s buttons....
In addition to other comments: I've also found these buttons on garments made of lighter weight fabrics such as silk tafffeta. In many instances, the buttons are not sewn on. The shank is inserted through a hand-sewn eyelet and the button is secured on the wrong side with a clip, a long piece of linen twill tape, or a thin strip of leather or, in two examples, a piece of string. This technique provides much more support and less strain on the bodice. Carolann Schmitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.genteelarts.com Ladies Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 1-4, 2007 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Name of a Hat?
I got an answer from Cynthia herself on the Milliner's list: Heh. I think that one is my fault, at least partially. They really do look like coffee filters, don't they? Fillet is one term, toque is good if you subscribe to the closed-top version, and I don't know what the medievals reallly called them. I've heard some folks call them a Plantaganet cap but I don't know the provenance of that one. Cynthia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DunnoI've always heard them referred to in informal terms--coffee filter hat, pie-crust hat, etc., depending on the particular style. You might look at the hat section in Cynthia Virtue's website--I recall seeing hat-ish stuff there in the past. --Sue What is the correct name of the medieval hat commonly referred to as the coffee filter hat? It looks like a sailor's hat without any crown and usually involves a chin strap and a hair net. I finished one over the holidays. Looks pretty good but I don't know what to call it so I can turn it in as an arts project GG Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 2007 OT on this subject
Hi and we want to wish you all the very, very best for the New Year! I thought of you specifically Bjarne, but I don't doubt there's enough people on this list who will appreciate these too! http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_80.htm Chris R. As for historical costumes for this year? I have two 1880's ball gowns I WILL finish :) Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When thinking realistic, what do you think you will finish of historical costumes in 2007? Had it not ben for my insanity with embroidering every costume i make, i would probably finish much more. But this year i hope to finish the anglaise dress, the aurora red francaise dress, and maybe my green embroidered jacket wich is on my embroidery frame. Its only half done for the left side, but considering that i have finished all the embroidery for the anglaise dress and that the aurora red francaise only have pleating for decoration, i might be right that i wil finnish the green jacket. I already finished the yell ow waistcoat for it. Its not that i am in lack of inspiration, i have plenty of taffetas to make new costumes for myself. Also the most funny of it all is my insanity i have become with 18th century wigs. I just asked a swedish friend to make me a wig like Mr. Cossway in Jefferson in Paris, you know the funny dandy type. Bjarne __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Met Museum Bulletin
The catalogue is gone, but if you send me your mailing address, I'll send you a CD-Rom of the scans of all the pages. -Helen/Aidan - Original Message - From: Voncile W. Dudley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Met Museum Bulletin I'm late checking my email. I would love to have any books that needs a good home especially garments from the 15th century up. Lady Von Hope I am not to late! - Original Message - From: Helen Pinto To: Historical Costume Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 11:18 PM Subject: [h-cost] Met Museum Bulletin In the process of (finally) unpacking my books, I've been finding things that could use a home other than mine. I have a Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin from back in the days when they sent members these glossy books every quarter. It's from the costume collection and contains large, high-quality pictures of garments from 1695 through the early 1950's, including microphotographs of some of the embroidered detail of the garments. It's nice to look at, but way past anything I'm really interested in. So... I will scan and send photos of anything that someone fancies, and the whole thing can belong to the first person who asks for it. (You have two weeks to ask for the pictures, then I'll mail it.) The highlights: - Complete embroidered woman's dress from 1695 - Four men's 18th c embroidered coats, one uncut, one with original embroidery cartoon, one with pants and vest - Men's banyans - Assorted women's 18c dresses, one with panniers, most sack-backed, all embroidered or hand-painted, 1740's - 1795 - Assorted women's 19c outfits, day dresses, evening wear, several from each decade - Assorted women's 20c outfits, evening wear, suits, etc, up to the 50's -Helen/Aidan - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com - Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 2007 OT on this subject
- Original Message - From: Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 2007 OT on this subject Hi and we want to wish you all the very, very best for the New Year! I thought of you specifically Bjarne, but I don't doubt there's enough people on this list who will appreciate these too! http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_80.htm Chris R. As for historical costumes for this year? I have two 1880's ball gowns I WILL finish :) Dear Chris, Oh many many thanks for that link. How charming they are. Dont quite understand is it an angel standing with a gun? at the small house to the left? Quite interresting to study the closeup pictures of the chenille embroidery. I have a picture of danish garthers with english text, saying When this you see, remember me! But i think it was very used. Thanks again, and good luck with your ball gowns. Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] name of a hat?
Just went and checked and it is a barbette and fillet - the round bit with no crown being the barbette, and the fillet being the bit that goes under the chin (although have seen them without that in pics). don't have any nfo on what the hair net part is called though. debs ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] name of a hat?
Might it be a toque? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Re: [h-cost] name of a hat?
Oh Jeeze, eh? Thats the knit thing you wear on your head in Canada eh? (pass the back bacon...) ;0) Sheridan in 'Northern' Ontario... From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/01/03 Wed AM 11:03:26 EST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] name of a hat? Might it be a toque? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] name of a hat?
I think the chin-strap is a barbette, the hat part is a fillet the net, a caul. Patty -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julie Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 7:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] name of a hat? What is the correct name of the medieval hat commonly referred to as the coffee filter hat? It looks like a sailor's hat without any crown and usually involves a chin strap and a hair net. I finished one over the holidays. Looks pretty good but I don't know what to call it so I can turn it in as an arts project GG Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 2007 OT on this subject
I suppose this is going to be a Rorshach -- I don't see an angel with a gun, but a spotted dog standing guard (the structure being dog house/guard house?) with a gun. But then, one man's angel could be another woman's spotted dog, I suppose... Lauren M. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jan 3, 2007, at 3:12 PM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: - Original Message - From: Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 2007 OT on this subject Hi and we want to wish you all the very, very best for the New Year! I thought of you specifically Bjarne, but I don't doubt there's enough people on this list who will appreciate these too! http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_80.htm Chris R. As for historical costumes for this year? I have two 1880's ball gowns I WILL finish :) Dear Chris, Oh many many thanks for that link. How charming they are. Dont quite understand is it an angel standing with a gun? at the small house to the left? Quite interresting to study the closeup pictures of the chenille embroidery. I have a picture of danish garthers with english text, saying When this you see, remember me! But i think it was very used. Thanks again, and good luck with your ball gowns. Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] movie costumes
Mine was a simple question. How I read your question, it seemed to imply that you did not think that they were capable of dyeing fabric during that era, thus it seemed to me to imply primitive. Perhaps I should have used the word ignorant or something better to ask why you thought the Egyptians lacked dyeing skills during that era. Sue: ..is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? De -Original Message- Did I *ever* say, or intimate that Egyptians were primitive? Huh? Wherever did you get *that* idea? I asked if there was any evidence of *linens* being dyed *at that time.* Linens are notoriously difficult to dye using natural dyes. Good grief. --Sue ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 2007 OT on this subject
It looks to me like a border guard or castle guard at a small guardhouse. Lovely helmet. Halt! Happy new year, everyone! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Jan 3, 2007, at 3:12 PM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: - Original Message - From: Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 2007 OT on this subject Hi and we want to wish you all the very, very best for the New Year! I thought of you specifically Bjarne, but I don't doubt there's enough people on this list who will appreciate these too! http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_80.htm Chris R. As for historical costumes for this year? I have two 1880's ball gowns I WILL finish :) Dear Chris, Oh many many thanks for that link. How charming they are. Dont quite understand is it an angel standing with a gun? at the small house to the left? Quite interresting to study the closeup pictures of the chenille embroidery. I have a picture of danish garthers with english text, saying When this you see, remember me! But i think it was very used. Thanks again, and good luck with your ball gowns. Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1870s buttons....
In a message dated 1/3/2007 11:33:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This technique provides much more support and less strain on the bodice. Not to mention easy removal for the cleaning of the garment. And easy replacement. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] name of a hat?
debs wrote: don't have any nfo on what the hair net part is called though. Probably crespine. -Helen/Aidan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] name of a hat?
Wouldn't barbette be derived from the root meaning beard and therefore logically be the part that goes under the chin? --Ruth Anne On Jan 3, 2007, at 10:56 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just went and checked and it is a barbette and fillet - the round bit with no crown being the barbette, and the fillet being the bit that goes under the chin (although have seen them without that in pics). don't have any nfo on what the hair net part is called though. debs ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Name of a Hat?
Greetings-- Julie wrote: I got an answer from Cynthia herself on the Milliner's list: Heh. I think that one is my fault, at least partially. They really do look like coffee filters, don't they? Fillet is one term, toque is good if you subscribe to the closed-top version, and I don't know what the medievals reallly called them. I've heard some folks call them a Plantaganet cap but I don't know the provenance of that one. I might! Eleanor, the Countess of Leicester, sister of Henry III and definitely a Plantagenet, wears one on her seal. The seal also has the stylized planta genet (a sort of viney thing with a pod on the end), in this case bedecked with the arms of her husband, Simon de Montfort. (The back of the seal also notifies you that she's the sister of the King of England. I love it :-) Don't know if that's it, but it sure could be. Susan (member of Eleanor's fan club) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
Nice! short version of url http://tinyurl.com/ydjm4p De -Original Message- This might help... http://www.petrie.ucl.ac.uk/detail/details/index_no_login.php?objectid=UC177 43accesscheck=%2Fdetail%2Fdetails%2Findex.php ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Holiday Exchange Received
My package from Diane arrived today! She sent me a nice pair of scrubby gloves which will be great for getting rid of dry winter skin, several candles which I love, a small spiral notebook, two foot-fizzers for sore feet, a small pincushion, and a string of rice pearls and some beading needles. I will think of her generosity as I sew the pearls onto an Elizabethan partlet I have planned and every time I wear it. Thank-you, Diane! Karen Seamstrix ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 2007 OT on this subject
I agree, I couldn't quite figure it out myself, but for such small work and with chenille thread...Yikes! I love this site and go there to drool often! Someday maybe I'll treat myself to something too...after I win the lottery ;) Lauren Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suppose this is going to be a Rorshach -- I don't see an angel with a gun, but a spotted dog standing guard (the structure being dog house/guard house?) with a gun. But then, one man's angel could be another woman's spotted dog, I suppose... Lauren M. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_80.htm Dear Chris, Oh many many thanks for that link. How charming they are. Dont quite understand is it an angel standing with a gun? at the small house to the left? Quite interresting to study the closeup pictures of the chenille embroidery. I have a picture of danish garthers with english text, saying When this you see, remember me! But i think it was very used. Thanks again, and good luck with your ball gowns. Bjarne __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
On Jan 3, 2007, at 7:24 AM, Sue Clemenger wrote: A beaded/netted overgown? How cool is that? ;o) I hadn't heard of that intriguing garment, so thanks to you and the other poster who mentioned it. I can see now why the designers of AlbertCat's movie might have tried to imitate it. --Sue Yeah, it's incredibly cool. (The same sort of technique seems to have been used for beaded-net sarcophagus covers that would include a facial portrait of the deceased.) I had fun making one for my ancient Egyptian doll -- see http://www.heatherrosejones.com/ digthatdoll/egyptianwoman.html. It's about 2/3 of the way down the page. (The doll is about 10 tall.) Heather - Original Message - From: Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes On Jan 2, 2007, at 5:00 AM, Sue Clemenger wrote: Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? --Sue From the description, it sounds like it might have been inspired by a surviving Egyptian bead net dress -- a very open network made of threaded beads. The one I'm thinking of is basically a tubular sheath with shoulder straps and at the bottom hem it has a fringe of dangling flower-shaped beads. _Might_ -- I'd have to see the original to know if the suspicion holds up. There's a rather dark photograph of the item I'm thinking of about halfway down the page at: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/sexuality.html Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
On Jan 3, 2007, at 7:16 AM, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: When did this evidence about Egyptian beaded net dresses surface? I never heard of it before nor is it in my old costume history books. It's been decades since I studied the history of costume, but since I'm going to be teaching it this January I'd really like to keep up on recent developments. I've run across mentions of about 3 of the dresses, not all of which were preserved very carefully after discovery. The main researcher who seems to have written about them is Rosalind Hall. I believe there's some discussion in: Hall, Rosalind. 1981. Fishing-net dreses in the Petrie Museum in Gottinger Miszellen: 42:36-46. and there's a color picture in the Shire Archaeology series book on ancient Egyptian textiles, which she also wrote. Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
On Wednesday 03 January 2007 10:16 am, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: When did this evidence about Egyptian beaded net dresses surface? I never heard of it before nor is it in my old costume history books. It's been decades since I studied the history of costume, but since I'm going to be teaching it this January I'd really like to keep up on recent developments. I believe I saw a picture of such a beaded net dress in Archaeology magazine about two or three years ago. I think I still have the issue. If so, it may indicate when the find was actually made. Ooops! I was wrong--it wasn't Archaeology at all, and it was longer ago than a few years. The article I have in mind was in KMT: A Modern Journal of Ancient Egypt. Winter 1995-1996, vol. 6, No. 4. It's by a Rosalind Janssen, an assistant curator at the Petrie Museum of Egyptian Archaeology at University College London (Petrie Museum) and it's called, An Ancient Egyptian Erotic Fashion: Fishnet Dresses. Turns out that more than one have been found, and there are pictures of two restored (i.e., restrung) dresses accompanying the article. One is dated to the 4th Dynasty. The caption on the photo claims it was found during George Reisner's excavations at Giza in 1927 and is now at the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston (MFS 27.1548). Another was found by Brunton at Qau in 1923-24; the article has two pictures of this one; one as it was incorrectly restored in the 1960s and a more recent restoration; it is now in the Petrie Museum. A picture of what the caption calls macrame (but looks more like a net with beaded motifs at the bottom) and a mesh referred to as a netted linen fragment also appear, along with a painted statute and tomb painting that appear to show similar garments. In light of the age of the relevant finds and the tomb art, I'm surprised no reference to such a garment showed up in the older books. Anyway, I can send you scans of the photos (possibly even of the whole article) by private e-mail if you are interested. The article also discusses evidence for garments made of linen netting that would have been as erotic and more comfortable to wear. [Heather said:] On Jan 2, 2007, at 9:34 PM, Heather Rose Jones wrote: From the description, it sounds like it might have been inspired by a surviving Egyptian bead net dress -- a very open network made of threaded beads. The one I'm thinking of is basically a tubular sheath with shoulder straps and at the bottom hem it has a fringe of dangling flower-shaped beads. This description tallies pretty well with the macrame fragment pictured in the KMT article, though Janessen says the MFA dress has stylized bead flowers along the hem, too. (I'm not sure I think so, from the picture, though.) The macrame fragment is also in the MFA, so I'm not clear which item she means. _Might_ -- I'd have to see the original to know if the suspicion holds up. There's a rather dark photograph of the item I'm thinking of about halfway down the page at: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/sexuality.html The dark photo referred to on the URL cited above appears to be a bad shot of the rear of the garment from the Petrie Museum. The KMT article has full-length shot of that garment, in color and from the front. -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity. --Robert Frost ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
On Wednesday 03 January 2007 9:34 pm, Heather Rose Jones wrote: On Jan 3, 2007, at 7:24 AM, Sue Clemenger wrote: A beaded/netted overgown? How cool is that? ;o) I hadn't heard of that intriguing garment, so thanks to you and the other poster who mentioned it. I can see now why the designers of AlbertCat's movie might have tried to imitate it. --Sue Yeah, it's incredibly cool. (The same sort of technique seems to have been used for beaded-net sarcophagus covers that would include a facial portrait of the deceased.) I had fun making one for my ancient Egyptian doll -- see http://www.heatherrosejones.com/ digthatdoll/egyptianwoman.html. It's about 2/3 of the way down the page. (The doll is about 10 tall.) I have very occasionally seen similar-looking garments (using plastic beads, naturally!) sold by vendors of belly dance costumes. These modern examples seem to be made using crochet techniques. Egyptian beaded dress or beaded crochet dress plugged into Google will sometimes turn up examples. I'd love to have one. -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity. --Robert Frost ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Met Museum Bulletin
Helen/Aidan, I happily received the CD-ROM just after Christmas! Thank you for the disc! Happy Happy dance... Elena/Gia -- Original message -- From: Helen Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] The catalogue is gone, but if you send me your mailing address, I'll send you a CD-Rom of the scans of all the pages. -Helen/Aidan - Original Message - From: Voncile W. Dudley To: Historical Costume Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Met Museum Bulletin I'm late checking my email. I would love to have any books that needs a good home especially garments from the 15th century up. Lady Von Hope I am not to late! - Original Message - From: Helen Pinto To: Historical Costume Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 11:18 PM Subject: [h-cost] Met Museum Bulletin In the process of (finally) unpacking my books, I've been finding things that could use a home other than mine. I have a Metropolitan Museum of Art Bulletin from back in the days when they sent members these glossy books every quarter. It's from the costume collection and contains large, high-quality pictures of garments from 1695 through the early 1950's, including microphotographs of some of the embroidered detail of the garments. It's nice to look at, but way past anything I'm really interested in. So... I will scan and send photos of anything that someone fancies, and the whole thing can belong to the first person who asks for it. (You have two weeks to ask for the pictures, then I'll mail it.) The highlights: - Complete embroidered woman's dress from 1695 - Four men's 18th c embroidered coats, one uncut, one with original embroidery cartoon, one with pants and vest - Men's banyans - Assorted women's 18c dresses, one with panniers, most sack-backed, all embroidered or hand-painted, 1740's - 1795 - Assorted women's 19c outfits, day dresses, evening wear, several from each decade - Assorted women's 20c outfits, evening wear, suits, etc, up to the 50's -Helen/Aidan - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com - Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
On Wednesday 03 January 2007 10:19 pm, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: Funny you should mention that book. I just so happen to have made a photocopy on it in its entirety when I ran across it for the first time a few years ago in a small town library. Since it was written in 1920, I've wondered ever since how accurate it is. Incredibly detailed, so I've been wondering. any consensus among you all? Shrug. It's hard to say. To my knowledge, there aren't really any archaeological textile finds (as opposed to jewelry and clay tablets) in what was then Mesopotamia If I'm wrong, I'd be delighted to hear about it! -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity. --Robert Frost ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
You may want to check the Cambridge online resources. I seem to remember that they had a few publications covering Mesopotamian textile impressions and some possible textile items. When I was in college oh low those many years ago one of the classes that was required for my degree was one specifically about Mesopotamia. (I did not finish my degree.) Since that was in the early 80's they sure as hell must have found something by now since they have had so many new things come up in the last 2 decades. You must also remember that at one point or another Iran, Anatolia, Syria and Palestine were also a part of Mesopotamia. Textiles, if they survived, I would bet are at Cambridge. :) Chiara - Original Message - From: Catherine Olanich Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian On Wednesday 03 January 2007 10:19 pm, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: Funny you should mention that book. I just so happen to have made a photocopy on it in its entirety when I ran across it for the first time a few years ago in a small town library. Since it was written in 1920, I've wondered ever since how accurate it is. Incredibly detailed, so I've been wondering. any consensus among you all? Shrug. It's hard to say. To my knowledge, there aren't really any archaeological textile finds (as opposed to jewelry and clay tablets) in what was then Mesopotamia If I'm wrong, I'd be delighted to hear about it! -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity. --Robert Frost ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
Katy, I am coming in late on the topic. Is this a 1920s Egyptian style beaded gown? Those were fashionable then. I haven't seen an ancient Egyptian beaded dress. I couldn't get this webpage link to work: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/sexuality.html Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: victorian wedding clothes, was [h-cost] Another film costume rant
Two programmes on British TV over Christmas showed Victorian brides in sleeveless dresses. One was the film of Nicholas Nickleby, the other a version of Dracula. Dammit, you wear DAY clothes to a wedding! (or used to.) I thought that too, however in my most recent research project covering the elliptical hoop though the early bustle (1865-1874) a noticeable percentage of wedding dresses were in the evening dress style. No more then 25%, but a noticeable percentage anyway. -sunny ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
Okay, I caught up on the topic... I'm sorry for my stupid question. I am wondering if these Egyptian dresses that were found in the 1920s were what made beaded dresses in the 1920s so fashionable. From my research, they appear in fashion around the same time as the dates of the beaded Egyptian dress finds. I am studying and will start soon documenting actual beading patterns from the 1920s dresses. It is amazing to me how some of the dresses from the 1920s survived with the chiffon in tact. We have some in the fashion collection that barely survived and the only thing they are good for is to document their patterns. You can not even tell what these dresses originally looked like. We have one dress that has about 15 lbs. of metal beadwork. It has survived well. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: victorian wedding clothes, was [h-cost] Another film costume rant
Two programmes on British TV over Christmas showed Victorian brides in sleeveless dresses. One was the film of Nicholas Nickleby, the other a version of Dracula. Dammit, you wear DAY clothes to a wedding! (or used to.) I thought that too, however in my most recent research project covering the elliptical hoop though the early bustle (1865-1874) a noticeable percentage of wedding dresses were in the evening dress style. No more then 25%, but a noticeable percentage anyway. I found it's usually respectable middle class that wears day dress (and probably working class too as I suspect there wasn't much opportunity to go to the opera or the odd ball) and the aristocracy could wear off the shoulder and the like. I was mostly looking at 1870s and 1880s there. Most of the brides on the Musee McCorde site are wearing clothing to the neck. None of the fashion plates show the lower necked style for weddings (though there are rather more open necks for day wear.) Michaela de Bruce http://glittersweet.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] 1870s buttons....
I have a question for you 19th century types, born out of completely idle curiosity. This Christmas, I was given a lovely bracelet comprising different buttons from the 1870s. They are all about 1/2 inch in diameter, and have surprisingly complex and lovely designs in them. They are made of cut steel and brass, with occasional tiny flecks of what looks like marcasite, and are fairly hefty in weight for their size (because of the metal, I'm guessing). What on earth would something like that have been used on? The garment fabric would have to be pretty substantial to not deform or tear from the weight --Sue in Montana Buttons were a reasonably common decoration for visiting dresses (e.g. fancy day dresses) - by decoration I mean used in places other then the center front or back opening. On the vintage garments I own that use button decoration (one of them is about 1878) the buttons are not functional and therefore can have extra re-enforcement, as well as simply having less stress then a button with an associated buttonhole. Wool (I have both a super fine weight and a tweed-jacket weight bodice in my collection), velvet, silk taffeta and silk faille were all common fabrics to make visiting dresses from - of those taffeta is the only one that is really fragile. Also, almost all bodices (and many skirts) were fully lined (usually with a very light weight brown-ish polished cotton - I assume it was their equivalent of cheap muslin since most linings are made of it.) One other comment - beyond the cotton lining the 4 day bodices I own from the 1860-1870s do not have any extra reinforcement at the center front openings. In one there is a bone placed beneath the buttons below the bust-shelf. But none of the others have that. It is simply the fashion fabric plus the cotton lining folded on itself once, with a tiny hem tucking the cut edges underneath. Hope that helps :-) -sunny ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
