Re: [h-cost] Re: boning question
Hi! Nice you're interested:-)) It's gonna be a wedding dress for a friend of mine - I'm also doing the man's outfit and cloaks for both of them, so all LOTR costume style:-)) Have you tried any dresses of that style? Do you have pictures? I really would be interested...:-)) You can have a look at the fabrics I'm using: http://www.intelligenzbestien.wz.cz/images/dress.jpg Thanks for all the suggestions! I always get more confident about doing something after asking the h-costume list...:-) I think I'll make a muslin lining and try both sorts of boning, lenghts, too, but I guess plastic will win, spiral steel, really is too heavy...:-) Zuzana Sharon Henderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What a lovely design! Bereth means Queen in Sindarin; which Queen are you costuming for? :-) I have a gown in progress that is a design that might have been worn by Thranduil's Queen in the Great Greenwood, and I just adore all the movie costumes (and many of the examples of similar designs I've seen!). I think you'd only need the plastic stuff, well-padded, to smooth out the lines--the metal might be too heavy for your fabric. Cheers, Meli (also a LOTR costume fan...) On 7/26/07, Zuzana wrote: I've got a question about boning. I'm doing this dress with a few adjustments, I've drawn them into the picture: http://www.intelligenzbestien.wz.cz/images/Berethdesign.jpg The bodice and the skirt are separately cut, the bodice also has a number of seams, as my friend for whom I'm doing this dress has a large bust and a small waist. The skirt has a train and is draped in the back. It's made from a lightweight taffeta, so all wrinkles are pretty well visible:-( So I thought about boning. I don't want it to be visible (a corset-top dress is really not my goal), so I'll attach it to the lining. My first question is, what lining fabric would you use for that purpose? A regular, thin acetate/polyester lining fabric?? Would the bones tear out? Would they be visible on the bodice, if the lining would be so thin? I'm going to use spiral steel bones, by the way. I think the best way is to attach them via bias stripes. I heard of a method of attaching a flannel fabric between the top fabric and the lining. Any experiences in that? I've ordered Bridal couture by Susan Khalje at amazon.com, this book is supposed to tell something about boning, but alas, I think it will come too late as I'm from Europe. The second question is, how long should the bones be? I think at the back it is sufficient to have them in the lower half of the bodice, but I'm not sure about the front - usually in pattern diagrams I see boning taht goes not higher than the bust, but I've never actually tried that and I'm not sure whether the ends will be visible or not. And, as I said, my friend has a large bust, which might affect this. It doesn't need support, as she'll be going to have a bra. Any suggestions? I'll be thankful to hear of any experience or advise. Many thanks, Zuzana P.S.: I know this has nothing to do with historical costumes, but I just thought some of you might be also doing bridal or evening wear, or just LOTR inspired costumes and might know something on the subject. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume - Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Moliere
In a message dated 7/27/2007 9:07:46 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You better buy the old DVD with Teatre du Solleils version of Mollieres life. Even it is so old now, the costumes are stunning beautifull... *** I'd love to! If it can be had in region 1 format! :-P Seriously, what is the film's title? What year? Who's in it? A search for Teatre du Solleils gets me no results. ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Moliere
And they need some more width in their skirts two. Very scarce fabric use in my oppinion. The lady in the front wears her off the shoulder much two deep two. Bjarne - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 5:24 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Moliere http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0796335/Ss/0796335/8.jpg.html?hint=group http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0796335/Ss/0796335/13.jpg.html?hint=group not my area of interest but the costumes seem to be close to the era depicted. You may be right about the same style, though the first picture the woman on the left end is different. -Original Message- So, has anyone seen this yet? The trailer is not promising costume-wise. Indeed, the women's gowns look like they are all the same dress in different fabrics. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Moliere
You better buy the old DVD with Teatre du Solleils version of Mollieres life. Even it is so old now, the costumes are stunning beautifull... Bjarne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 3:10 AM Subject: [h-cost] Moliere So, has anyone seen this yet? The trailer is not promising costume-wise. Indeed, the women's gowns look like they are all the same dress in different fabrics. ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Moliere
In a message dated 7/27/2007 9:45:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Seriously, what is the film's title? What year? Who's in it? A search for Teatre du Solleils gets me no results. *** Is it this one? From 1978? _http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077941/_ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077941/) ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Moliere
The skirts sure seem to be a skimping on fabric. MaggiRos --- otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0796335/Ss/0796335/8.jpg.html?hint=group http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0796335/Ss/0796335/13.jpg.html?hint=group not my area of interest but the costumes seem to be close to the era depicted. You may be right about the same style, though the first picture the woman on the left end is different. -Original Message- So, has anyone seen this yet? The trailer is not promising costume-wise. Indeed, the women's gowns look like they are all the same dress in different fabrics. ~Fog is just a cloud that lacks the will to fly. Bill Bryson, A Short History of Practically Everything ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Moliere
Wouldnt the skits have more understructure? I forget what they wore under them in this period but it seems they should be sticking out a bit more. Sylrog On Jul 27, 2007, at 11:04 AM, MaggiRos wrote: The skirts sure seem to be a skimping on fabric. MaggiRos --- otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0796335/Ss/0796335/8.jpg.html?hint=group http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0796335/Ss/0796335/13.jpg.html? hint=group not my area of interest but the costumes seem to be close to the era depicted. You may be right about the same style, though the first picture the woman on the left end is different. -Original Message- So, has anyone seen this yet? The trailer is not promising costume-wise. Indeed, the women's gowns look like they are all the same dress in different fabrics. ~Fog is just a cloud that lacks the will to fly. Bill Bryson, A Short History of Practically Everything ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Moliere
Sylvia Rognstad wrote: Wouldnt the skits have more understructure? I forget what they wore under them in this period but it seems they should be sticking out a bit more. There's an image at IMDB showing one woman in the foreground, with many women sitting in the background. You can easily see their knees outlined by the skirts. cv ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Moliere
I don't think so. It's 1665 or so, right? Lots of petticotes, but the farthingale is out and the panniere hasn't come in. A long corset, some kind of bum roll, but no frame for the skirt. Think of Faye Dunnaway getting undressed in the Richard Lester Three Musketeers. Yes, that's earlier but the idea is similar. Enough fabric in the skirts, and cutting the panels in gores instead of squares, would make them drape properly, which is probably what you're reacting to. MaggiRos ~not my era but I spent a lot of time researching the clothes for a novel. --- Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wouldnt the skits have more understructure? I forget what they wore under them in this period but it seems they should be sticking out a bit more. Sylrog On Jul 27, 2007, at 11:04 AM, MaggiRos wrote: The skirts sure seem to be a skimping on fabric. MaggiRos --- otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0796335/Ss/0796335/8.jpg.html?hint=group http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0796335/Ss/0796335/13.jpg.html? hint=group not my area of interest but the costumes seem to be close to the era depicted. You may be right about the same style, though the first picture the woman on the left end is different. -Original Message- So, has anyone seen this yet? The trailer is not promising costume-wise. Indeed, the women's gowns look like they are all the same dress in different fabrics. ~Fog is just a cloud that lacks the will to fly. Bill Bryson, A Short History of Practically Everything ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ~Fog is just a cloud that lacks the will to fly. Bill Bryson, A Short History of Practically Everything ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Moliere
Hi, Yes this is the title. Then you can have it after all Bjarne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moliere In a message dated 7/27/2007 9:45:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Seriously, what is the film's title? What year? Who's in it? A search for Teatre du Solleils gets me no results. *** Is it this one? From 1978? _http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077941/_ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077941/) ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Moliere
Amazon.com has two (from the used and new sellers) but the user reviews tell us the Region 1 version has no subtitles. Have to watch it just for the pictures, I guess, unless your French is much better than mine. No no, go ahead. I won't grab it. :-) MaggiRos --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 7/27/2007 9:45:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Seriously, what is the film's title? What year? Who's in it? A search for Teatre du Solleils gets me no results. *** Is it this one? From 1978? _http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077941/_ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077941/) ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ~Fog is just a cloud that lacks the will to fly. Bill Bryson, A Short History of Practically Everything ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Moliere
It would be a problem with the regions. I got mine from Amazon france. Only in french and no text, but i baught it for the eyecandy. And its a long film, more than 3 hours. The time is brilliant, starting with the cavallier style when he was a child, and see how the styles changes trough the times, at the end the fontanges are in fashion... Bjarne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moliere In a message dated 7/27/2007 9:07:46 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You better buy the old DVD with Teatre du Solleils version of Mollieres life. Even it is so old now, the costumes are stunning beautifull... *** I'd love to! If it can be had in region 1 format! :-P Seriously, what is the film's title? What year? Who's in it? A search for Teatre du Solleils gets me no results. ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 1880 Ball Gown
(Sorry for the cross-post) I'm out of my design league and could really use some help from anyone who has worked in the 1880s era. I'm making a gown for my 16-year old daughter for a ball in March. After looking through all my books, she has chosen one from Victorian and Edwardian Fashions from 'La Mode Illustree' , edited by J. Olian (Dover). Her dress is the first one on page 60, an elegant ball gown from 1880. Unfortunately, the legend only says that it's made of satin, no more info. First, I'm a bit concerned about whether the dress will flatter her or not. She's 5' nothing and curvy. She's in proportion but weighs 125-130, so she's kinda built along the lines of Jennifer Rabbit only not so tall. Should I try to guide her away from this style and suggest more bustle, from maybe 1875 instead? I first thought of making the bustle a bit wider but maybe the thinness of this bustle dress is a good thing for my girl, to lengthen and slenderize. Yes? No? Her initial criteria: it has to be dark blue, it has to have a train, it has to rustle, it has to be beautiful. No pressure, Mom. Normally, I'll keep a picture of the design near me for several days so I can dream on it and kind of work out the kinks before I purchase anything, but time is tight. I'm going to Costume College and will have a day for shopping in the fabric district before I have to come home to the real world of work and family. While I'm in LA I can pick up the fabric and maybe even the trim, but I haven't any idea of how much material that dress will require. She may only wear this dress a couple times, so I'm going to go with a changeable poly taffeta rather than silk. I usually buy 10 yards minimum, but I haven't a clue how much that skirt might require. I'm guessing 2 for the bodice, another 2 for the underskirt, but where do I go from there? Is 10 yards enough or will I need more? Too much? Do you think there are two dark colors in this dress or only one? I'll probably trim/contrast with black if two colors. So there's not too much contrast. I'll use a heavy, twice-worked lace to reproduce that embroidery on the edges. And the yards and yards of lighter laces on the dress, both dark and light. How can one gauge - from a picture - how much to buy? I'm already working on Laughing Moon's corset pattern for her and I'll get the bustle pattern from Truly Victorian while I'm at College. I've made one of each of their two bustles and they work wonderfully, but my size is too big for Terry. I'll probably go to TV for the bodice and skirt patterns too because I don't feel comfortable draping yet, but I'd sure like any suggestions or help you can give me. I've done several Elizabethan outfits and several more 1840s-60s but never anything so late – even though I have plans to make one for myself. I swear I'm not asking for you to make the darned thing, but it's overwhelming me right now with the many things I don't know about this style. Thanks for any help you can toss my way, LynnD ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Article on Russian Viking-era find
I am excited to reproduce the apron skirt and tunic. This is really exciting to me as one of my first loves is the Viking stuff. (Mind you it is all play for me I am not a serious historian but I strive for some authenticity. Anyway, with the info about the colors and the decoration, and the assumed style, I always like to try to do that in my feeble way. And I do have some blue and red silk remnants that should be perfect. Thank you for submitting the article on the list. Beverly ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Moliere
In a message dated 7/27/2007 4:21:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: unless your French is much better than mine *** That's a laugh! When we did the miniseries The Wedding, the designer brought all these great 1950's clothes from LA for the extras. Well, they were all size 4 thru 8. The black ladies we had down here in NC couldn't get an arm into them! The designer started calling the big girls Fried Chicken Ladies. Well, we couldn't say that in front of them so we started using Les dames du poulet frit...I mean Les belle dames du poulet frit. There...my French! ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Moliere
In a message dated 7/27/2007 1:27:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Enough fabric in the skirts, and cutting the panels in gores instead of squares, would make them drape properly, which is probably what you're reacting to. Looks more 1640smaybe 1650s, because this takes place before the great plays were written. [Another great artists have no imagination but everything is autobiographical film...like Amadeus or Immortal Beloved...yuck!] 1650s...which makes me think Vermeer or ter Borch. By then the bodice usually has a boned lining that is really a corset and skirts are not skimpy but don't have much underpinnings. Maybe a petticoat. They fall straight in deep pleats from the cartridge pleating. These yardages might be good for a maid, but not ladies in society. And the decollatage is too low. There's just not much variety in the gowns. They are all the same. Remember the Cyrano with Gerard Depardue? Think of all the different...and correct looks on the women in that film. Not here! It reminded me of the skimpiness you see in some recent 17th century films, like Marie Antoinette... which doesn't translate as skimpiness but rather a kind of delicateness. This is in keeping with the type of decoration you see in the late 17th century. But the Baroque sensibility is heavier, more lush and thick with ornament. It doesn't work in Moliere. IMHO of course ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Moliere
In a message dated 7/27/2007 5:19:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is in keeping with the type of decoration you see in the late 17th century. oops...I meant the 18th century ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1880 Ball Gown
I have that Dover book, but my books have far overflowed my bookshelves and are stacked high all over the floors. So I can't pull it out right away to ID the picture. I can barely move my in-front-of-the-computer chair for piles of books related to the (long overdue) one I'm working on now. If it helps any, I've published two books on late 1870s and early 1880s women's clothing, with patterns. The series is called Fashions of the Gilded Age, and the two volumes can be used independently. Volume 2 contains the patterns for evening and ball gowns, and a dressmaking manual, but Volume 1 has the patterns for corsets, bustles, undergarments, etc. First, I'm a bit concerned about whether the dress will flatter her or not. She's 5' nothing and curvy. She's in proportion but weighs 125-130, so she's kinda built along the lines of Jennifer Rabbit only not so tall. Should I try to guide her away from this style and suggest more bustle, from maybe 1875 instead? I think the minimal-bustle natural form era styles, which is what this is, look better on shorter women than on very tall and slender ones. Tall women can wind up looking like a pole in them, if they are not careful. (I'm 4'9, BTW.) I usually buy 10 yards minimum, but I haven't a clue how much that skirt might require. That's my standard buying amount for costumes I don't have yardage for. But this is a period where different fabrics are commonly combined for evening dresses. OK, I managed to dig up my office copy of Volume 2 of Fashions of the Gilded Age. Here's a pattern for an evening dress with a long train. The yardage given is 6 yards of velvet for the bodice and trained skirt back, 7 3/4 yards of satin for the skirt itself, and 3 1/4 yard of brocaded gauze to arrange over the skirt. Here's a pattern for another evening dress, with a trained skirt back and more of a bustle effect, made entirely of canary yellow satin, requiring 20 yards 20 inches wide. Which is a point to consider for these yardages: They're not talking about modern 54 wide fabric. There are two tables of period widths for a large variety of fabrics, in the dressmaking manual in back. They vary from fabric to fabric; but if you assume a width of not more than 36 in these descriptions, you should come out OK. Here's a pattern for a reception dress with a moderate bustle effect and no train. It requires 12 yards of black satin duchesse and 5 1/2 yards of black brocade, 24 inches wide. Here's a pattern for a satin and brocade evening dress with a rather short train. The skirt and its drapery require 18 yards of light bronze satin, and the polonaise (bodice combined with overskirt) requires 6 1/2 yards of light blue satin brocade. The book has patterns for several other evening dresses and ball gowns for which no yardage is given. According to dressmaking instructions of the period, you were supposed to do a mock layout of your pattern on the floor and buy material accordingly. You will also need a lining fabric. I always use rather lightweight, but not sheer (except for very light fabrics) plain-weave cotton, in as close to the same color as the outer fabric as I can find. The lining fabrics they used run to a narrower selection of off white (for white fabrics), various shades of tan (for most fabrics) and black (for black fabrics). However, other colors were sometimes used. Although colored laces were used to some extent in this period, the majority, especially for formal wear, were yellowish off-white, ecru, or black. These are classic colors you can always use for some other project if you have too much for this one. There is a kind of coarse, off-white cotton lace that was very popular in the 1970s or so, which is a fairly decent imitation of Victorian bobbin lace. A lot of it gets sold on eBay, and you can buy long pieces in single styles. (Although, it is OK to mix lace patterns in trimming one garment if they harmonize and you do it in a logical way.) I've bought cards with as much as 50 yards of it, for reasonable prices. So my advice is, go to eBay, browse the lace in the textiles section, and have a field day buying whatever patterns of this lace take your fancy. If you don't use them now you will later. If it's 100% cotton lace you can dye it. I have dyed lace ecru for an 1890s ballgown by making strong coffee, and leaving the lace in there till the color was dark enough that I thought it would be right once it was rinsed and dried. I don't like black lace, so don't buy it often, and have never dyed any black. I just remembered: Dharma Trading Company, www.dharmatrading.com, recently started carrying dyeable, 100% cotton, coarse bobbin-style laces, and they're cheap. I haven't bought any yet, but you might want to have a look. Dharma also sells ecru and black dyes. I don't know why you think your daughter won't wear the dress often. But she might find it more wearable with
Re: [h-cost] 1880 Ball Gown
In a message dated 7/27/2007 6:03:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think the minimal-bustle natural form era styles, which is what this is, look better on shorter women than on very tall and slender ones. Tall women can wind up looking like a pole in them, if they are not careful. (I'm 4'9, BTW.) Yes. Princess line gowns on curvy figures can be very flattering...even if one is short. And you don't have that huge wired bustle to deal with. I've seen examples of the princess gown is a simple as possible... with ruching and draping in the same fabric tacked onto the princess line base gown. It looks like a complicated draped gown all in one but it's really several pieces. The only problem is I think of them as late 1870's. ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] 1880 Ball Gown
A lot of photographs and portraits from this era show women wearing the fashionable silhouette, whether it flattered them or not, in our eyes. But even in the 18th century, whether drawn on the imaginary ideal or a painted portrait, artists tailored their work to an ideal that few women could meet. And until the latter part of the 20th century, with the advent of diets, plastic surgery, and just the rare draw of the right DNA, very very few women did. Also, the fashionable ideal in the later 19th century was curvy and so-called pocket Venuses(short but curvy women who could corset their waists to the fashionable ideal)rivalled the taller women, like Lily Langtry and Sarah Bernhardt, who are more attractive to the modern eye. The important most important thing is fit. The latter half of the 19th century abounds in surviving photographed portraits where fit isn't the best. And few women could or would corset themselves to the fashionable ideal, just as today, few women really can meet the under-ideal-weight of fashion models and actresses. Proper drape and scale of fabric in both weight and design is critical for both dolls and short persons like me(below 5')Keeping to a single color tone is best on the short--for the tall and very thin, then as now, can wear all the wild color combinations of the Belle Epoque when new dye technology made really bright colors possible. Cindy Abel ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight/bias gore question
I've always been taught to sew straight to bias. I've never had a side baggyI would definitely NOT hang the bias ones! Sg - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costumemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 2:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] straight/bias gore question I am making a linen 4-panel, front/back/sides-gored variation on the Gothic Fitted Dress. Usually, when I do this, I cut eight gores (4 rectangles cut diagonally) and sew them in, straight-to-straight and bias-to-bias. This time, I cleverly thought If I fold it in quarters first, and then cut, I'll have three isosceles triangles and two right triangles. Fewer seams! But now that means I'm facing sewing straight-to-bias for at least three of the gores, if not all four. I know that one side effect will be the tendancy of the fabric to pucker where the bias edge stretches and the straight edge does not. I seem to have two choices: Do I: hang the gores from the point for a few days to allow the fabric to stretch out before sewing them in place (which may or may not prevent puckering after the fact)? Do I: cut each triangle in half so I have my familliar eight gores (six of them being a little narrower than expected because I didn't factor in seam allowance)? I assume there will be a difference in drape between the two, I don't know whether or not it will be enough of a difference to matter. (Will one way make the skirt stand out more?) Has anyone done this? Have you noticed a difference? Emma ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.commailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumehttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1880 Ball Gown
Gosh! I go away for an hour for lunch and I come back and people are full of insights and help. I love this group! Thanks for the feedback on this natural curve period between bustles. I think the princess line is flattering too, and I'm sure she'll look and feel great in this dress. I should have mentioned that yes, there is lots of self-fabric pleating iat the bottom of the skirt, so I know that will add to the amount needed. Fran, thank you for listing the fabric requirements for those different types of dresses. Once I sit down and work out some calculations, I think I'll be fine. But it's nice to have a guideline. I planned to flat line everything in black and line the bodice. Do you all think the skirt needs flatlining and lining? Fit will indeed be crucial, Cindy, and that's the part I'm hoping to have some help with once I finish the corset. And I had forgotten the term pocket Venus. That will thrill Terry, who is tired of being the shortest of her peers no matter what group she's with at the time. Thanks, everyone. I'll keepin touch as I build this thing. I don't have a blog, don't usually read them either, but it might be a good time to start a blog on the progress of this dress. I will continue to welcome input. I leave for Costume College on Tuesday morning and will be back the following Wednesday, so if you send ideas as they pop into your heads, please don't think I didn't appreciate you notes. LynnD On 7/27/07, Abel, Cynthia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A lot of photographs and portraits from this era show women wearing the fashionable silhouette, whether it flattered them or not, in our eyes. But even in the 18th century, whether drawn on the imaginary ideal or a painted portrait, artists tailored their work to an ideal that few women could meet. And until the latter part of the 20th century, with the advent of diets, plastic surgery, and just the rare draw of the right DNA, very very few women did. Also, the fashionable ideal in the later 19th century was curvy and so-called pocket Venuses(short but curvy women who could corset their waists to the fashionable ideal)rivalled the taller women, like Lily Langtry and Sarah Bernhardt, who are more attractive to the modern eye. The important most important thing is fit. The latter half of the 19th century abounds in surviving photographed portraits where fit isn't the best. And few women could or would corset themselves to the fashionable ideal, just as today, few women really can meet the under-ideal-weight of fashion models and actresses. Proper drape and scale of fabric in both weight and design is critical for both dolls and short persons like me(below 5')Keeping to a single color tone is best on the short--for the tall and very thin, then as now, can wear all the wild color combinations of the Belle Epoque when new dye technology made really bright colors possible. Cindy Abel ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight/bias gore question
same here - the straight stabilises the bias, so it doesn't stretsh in wear / hanging. do it all the time in linen, and not had a problem. any puckering I sort out by fiddling with the machine tension. In a message dated 28/07/2007 00:10:04 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Message: 11 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:53:12 -0700 From: Saragrace Knauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] straight/bias gore question To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 I've always been taught to sew straight to bias. I've never had a side baggyI would definitely NOT hang the bias ones! Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight/bias gore question
Same here, although occasionally I'll hand baste the buggers in first eliminating the travel that happens with pinning the seam and then sewing with machine. Starr At 07:17 PM 7/27/2007, you wrote: same here - the straight stabilises the bias, so it doesn't stretsh in wear / hanging. do it all the time in linen, and not had a problem. any puckering I sort out by fiddling with the machine tension. In a message dated 28/07/2007 00:10:04 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Message: 11 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:53:12 -0700 From: Saragrace Knauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] straight/bias gore question To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 I've always been taught to sew straight to bias. I've never had a side baggyI would definitely NOT hang the bias ones! Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight/bias gore question
Interesting! I wonder if the problem I'm thinking of was originally a result of inexperienced sewing, which I misinterpreted as fabric properties. It's the sort of thing that I did years and years ago, thought huh, doesn't work and changed methods. With three responses that I'm interpreting as go ahead! and none against, I guess I'll just get sewing! Thank you! Emma Quoting Brangwyne [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Same here, although occasionally I'll hand baste the buggers in first eliminating the travel that happens with pinning the seam and then sewing with machine. Starr At 07:17 PM 7/27/2007, you wrote: same here - the straight stabilises the bias, so it doesn't stretsh in wear / hanging. do it all the time in linen, and not had a problem. any puckering I sort out by fiddling with the machine tension. In a message dated 28/07/2007 00:10:04 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Message: 11 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:53:12 -0700 From: Saragrace Knauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] straight/bias gore question To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 I've always been taught to sew straight to bias. I've never had a side baggyI would definitely NOT hang the bias ones! Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume http://anvil.unl.edu/emma http://HelixHandworks.etsy.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1880 Ball Gown
A lot of photographs and portraits from this era show women wearing the fashionable silhouette, whether it flattered them or not, in our eyes. Yes--although the standard 19th-century fashion advice, in magazines and beauty books, was to wear what _was_ appropriate to the individual's figure, complexion, social position, budget, and the occasion. Fortunately, modern reenactors, and people going to period-themed social events, are very often not restricted to wearing an extremely narrow range of styles or colors. They can even often choose among the styles of an entire decade, or even a longer period. (Sometimes several centuries, as in the case of many SCA members.) Most modern people spending a lot of time and often, a fair amount of money making a historic outfit, want it to be something that looks good on them. So, if someone has a free choice of a period ranging over some years of the 1870s or early 1880s (which is what has been under discussion), it would be silly for them to choose an unflattering style, or one they disliked, just because some people in period did so--when a flattering style the modern person liked would be equally appropriate and suitable for the modern occasion. But even in the 18th century, whether drawn on the imaginary ideal or a painted portrait, artists tailored their work to an ideal that few women could meet. And until the latter part of the 20th century, with the advent of diets, plastic surgery, and just the rare draw of the right DNA, very very few women did. Sure. I suspect most people on this list know all that. In fact, most people still don't look like the (modern) fashionable ideal. Proper drape and scale of fabric in both weight and design is critical for both dolls and short persons like me(below 5')Keeping to a single color tone is best on the short I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I'll say: I'm 4'9 tall, and I've probably read most of the standard modern wardrobe-planning advice for petite women. Yes, part of the hackneyed modern advice (though the 1870s and 1880s, the period that was under discussion, were periods when multiple-color dresses were very fashionable) is that short women should always wear one color, or at best, different shades of the same color. I've never paid the slightest attention to that rule, nor to a lot of the other modern fashion advice for short women. And I have studied fashion and pattern design, formally. So I have known, for many years, all about how horizontal lines add width, and vertical lines add length, and how details should be proportioned to the body. My take is: Height (barring extremes caused by medical problems) is not any kind of health or figure flaw. It's not something that should be concealed and in fact, it's not something that can be concealed. It's also not something that can be changed. Barring any onset of medical problems, it's going to be the same for your entire adult life. No amount of diet, exercise, or as far as I know even surgery, is ever going to change your height. The most you can in terms of real, if temporary, increase or decrease is change your shoes. So I see no point in deciding that my height is a figure flaw, just because some fashion books say so. Yes, for every person there are some styles and colors that look truly unfortunate, and I certainly avoid my set of same. But, I think going through an entire lifetime--of hopefully, 90 years or so given modern medicine--wearing one-color outfits just because some wardrobe-planning books say that makes you look taller--when everyone around you can't help realizing you're short anyway--is absurd. Besides, on me at least, one-color outfits look incredibly dowdy. There is nothing duller on me than one of those ideal one-piece sheath dresses. Even when I faithfully followed the standard advice on dressing them up with accessories. So I almost _always_ wear contrasting blouses and skirts (I prefer separates to dresses). I look great in wide off-the-shoulder necklines--I've bought some modern knit tops like that, just so I can wear that silhouette in the daytime. I even have a couple with sort-of-Edwardian-bertha-things. I always wear long skirts--which used to be considered good for short women, as having a long line, but have recently been declared non-PC. I love big bulky hand-knit sweaters. I like big jewelry. In period outfits, I look fantastic in big mid-1890s sleeves, big mid-1880s bustles, hoopskirts, and wide-brimmed hats. I wear lots of things I'm not supposed to wear. I look good, and I feel good about them. It does help to study line, color, etc. to learn how to tweak the rules. For example, the modern T-shirts and dresses with big scoop necklines. I have trouble with those, because the neckline is too low in proportion to my waist level. It's not that I look short, but I look like I'm wearing someone else's T-shirt. But, I've
Re: [h-cost] 1880 Ball Gown
I planned to flat line everything in black and line the bodice. Do you all think the skirt needs flatlining and lining? Unless it was a sheer fabric (and sometimes even then) late-1870s/early 1880s dresses were usually fully flat-lined. If you are draping trim all over the skirt, the flat lining will help support its weight. However, you do not need to flat-line _and_ line the skirt. These styles run heavy, so don't add more weight than you have to. Fran ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight/bias gore question
I sewed a straight to bias skirt once in an antique satin and it did bag out, especially more so over time. Sylrog On Jul 27, 2007, at 6:04 PM, Brangwyne wrote: Same here, although occasionally I'll hand baste the buggers in first eliminating the travel that happens with pinning the seam and then sewing with machine. Starr At 07:17 PM 7/27/2007, you wrote: same here - the straight stabilises the bias, so it doesn't stretsh in wear / hanging. do it all the time in linen, and not had a problem. any puckering I sort out by fiddling with the machine tension. In a message dated 28/07/2007 00:10:04 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Message: 11 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:53:12 -0700 From: Saragrace Knauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] straight/bias gore question To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 I've always been taught to sew straight to bias. I've never had a side baggyI would definitely NOT hang the bias ones! Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
