Re: [h-cost] Who's still here? & smock question

[Kate Bunting]

Hi, Susan,
I take it you mean the agricultural worker's smock? (Smock was also used as
a synonym for a woman's shift or chemise.) I've never heard of the outer
garment being worn by women.

Kate Bunting

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 5:10 AM, Susan  wrote:

> Hi all,
> I'm still here.  I get fed up with facebook, and rarely with email lists,
> so happy to see people.
>
> Since you're all here ...  I've just gotten interested in english smocks
> (18th - 19th c ones) and was debating making one.  I've requested a bunch
> of books from the library, and this question might be answered in one of
> them. But ...
>
> Did women wear the traditional smocks?  in any era?
>
> thanks, Susan c (in seattle)
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Re: [h-cost] Who's still here? & smock question

[annbwass]

You mean the farmer's big overshirt, right? (I ask because "smock" was also 
used as a term for a woman's shift or chemise, at least in parts of England. 
Read about smock races sometime.) Do you have the Shire album on the subject? 
 Also try "Dress of the People." I suspect the answer to your question, though, 
is probably not, but next to impossible to ferret out. If women did, they were 
probably rural residents doing hard work on farms, and, unless there is a stray 
traveler's account somewhere, unlikely to be recorded.

Ann Wass

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Susan 
To: Historical Costume 
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 12:10 am
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who's still here?  & smock question

Hi all,
I'm still here.  I get fed up with facebook, and rarely with email lists, so 
happy to see people.

Since you're all here ...  I've just gotten interested in english smocks 
(18th - 19th c ones) and was debating making one. I've requested a bunch of 
books from the library, and this question might be answered in one of them. 
But ...

Did women wear the traditional smocks?  in any era?

thanks, Susan c (in seattle) 

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Re: [h-cost] Is h-costume still going?

[annbwass]

While it may or may not have been authentic in the period, I, too, like it for 
interpreting at events. One can show what the garments looked like (since you 
are wearing them underneath) and also the whole art of hand sewing--but, as you 
say neatly and plainly. Of course, as with other reenacting decisions, your 
mileage may vary.

Ann Wass

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Marjorie Wilser 
To: Historical Costume 
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 12:59 am
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is h-costume still going?

Hah, I like plain sewing for events. Darning. Mending— unpretentious stuff to 
prove to the general public that it IS possible to do the job neatly and make 
things last!==Marjorie Wilser> On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:47 AM, Terry 
 wrote:> > Makes sense.  That's what I do in my sewing 
circle--bring the nice stuff to work on and leave the ugly stuff at home.> > 
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Re: [h-cost] Is h-costume still going?

[annbwass]

I've been interested in charity sewing, too, and have found a few references in 
England. So far, I've had no luck finding firm evidence in the U.S. One of the 
things on my to-do list is to search the archives of a local Society of Friends 
meeting (Alexandria, VA) and records in Philadelphia to see if I can find any 
references. But I haven't gotten there yet--so many subjects, so little time! 

Ann Wass

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Elizabeth Jones 
To: Historical Costume 
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 7:03 am
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is h-costume still going?

I actually wonder about how charity sewing would fit in to the fancy
vs plain sewing rule in Mansfield Park there is one evening (I think
they have company over but I can't remember) when Mrs Norris complains
that Fanny should be sewing and if she has nothing of her own to work
on there is plenty of work in the 'poor box'. Implying that making
things for the poor (almost certainly underclothes, the workwoman's
guide is only slightly later than this novel and it has a lot to say
about making underclothes and baby clothes as charity) was a normal
and expected occupation for young ladies. If it was somehow clear that
what you were making was for the poor of the parish instead of your
own family working on that in public would show off your charitable
virtues (not a bad thing for a gentleman to look for in a wife as
anything that makes your tenants happier is likely to make your estate
more stable and profitable).
Elizabeth

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 6:23 AM, Lavolta Press  wrote:
> I get the impression that in the nineteenth century there was "private"
> versus "public" needlework.  Unmarried young women, at least, tended to do
> mending and make underclothes (shirts fell into that category) only within
> the family (when no callers were expected) or at most, only in front of
> intimate female friends. Their public, "fine" needlework showed off their
> skills in embroidery, netting, and so forth. When they made calls, they
> might be embroidering a flounce for a dress, or embroidering a fire screen,
> but not mending stockings.  Unpretentious matrons and mothers of large
> families might do plain sewing and mending in a more public way, but elegant
> married women, not.
>
> Fran
> Lavolta Press
> www.lavoltapress.com
>
>
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Re: [h-cost] Is h-costume still going?

[Elizabeth Jones]

I actually wonder about how charity sewing would fit in to the fancy
vs plain sewing rule in Mansfield Park there is one evening (I think
they have company over but I can't remember) when Mrs Norris complains
that Fanny should be sewing and if she has nothing of her own to work
on there is plenty of work in the 'poor box'. Implying that making
things for the poor (almost certainly underclothes, the workwoman's
guide is only slightly later than this novel and it has a lot to say
about making underclothes and baby clothes as charity) was a normal
and expected occupation for young ladies. If it was somehow clear that
what you were making was for the poor of the parish instead of your
own family working on that in public would show off your charitable
virtues (not a bad thing for a gentleman to look for in a wife as
anything that makes your tenants happier is likely to make your estate
more stable and profitable).
Elizabeth

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 6:23 AM, Lavolta Press  wrote:
> I get the impression that in the nineteenth century there was "private"
> versus "public" needlework.  Unmarried young women, at least, tended to do
> mending and make underclothes (shirts fell into that category) only within
> the family (when no callers were expected) or at most, only in front of
> intimate female friends. Their public, "fine" needlework showed off their
> skills in embroidery, netting, and so forth. When they made calls, they
> might be embroidering a flounce for a dress, or embroidering a fire screen,
> but not mending stockings.  Unpretentious matrons and mothers of large
> families might do plain sewing and mending in a more public way, but elegant
> married women, not.
>
> Fran
> Lavolta Press
> www.lavoltapress.com
>
>
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Re: [h-cost] is h-costume still going?

[A. Thurman]

I'm still here, though do most of my costume talk on FB these days as well.

I'd LOVE to be making something (so many things!) but I'm working on a book
(not costume related). I've discovered I have time to write or costume, but
not both.

I am still attending the Tudor Tailor weekend next June in Jamestown though.

Allison T.
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Re: [h-cost] What's your dummy wearing this season?

[R Lloyd Mitchell]

Bygonne has been wearing a long sleeved tunic fashioned from two pashmina 
shawls. It is a sure thing for instant dressup for 2016! Currently on the 
ironing board is a sweet mini dress for my grandaughter. Found a piece of kelly 
green eyelash that should suit this 13 year old fashionesta!
 Of historical fashion note" Queen Maud's dress form is wearing her Coronation 
Gown. It took me about 5 years to find the fabric. She isn't very patient nor 
obliging; I finally made a dress form for her (alas, not to be called 
TheDummy)because she had a serious problem with scheduling Fittings...

From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com  on behalf of 
Magge Genie 
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 2:03 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dummy wearing this season?

Mine would be wearing a hand-sewn man's Viking tunic and a woman's Viking coif. 
I'm doing some detailed embroidery on the coif for a friend who has had breast 
cancer this year.

Magge/Genie

> On Dec 18, 2015, at 12:08 AM, Marjorie Wilser  wrote:
>
> Mine— alas, still stored. I miss her.
>
> However, were she out to play, she’d have her choice of several large hand 
> knit lace shawls. I have spent a lot of enjoyable time knitting lace the last 
> few years. It has distracted me from doing a lot of sewing.
>
> Since SCA-period groups are my only local choice I dabble occasionally there, 
> but not enough to warrant new clothes as yet. Since my Elizabethans are not 
> so comfy for many events I am working on hand-sewing a linen dress of the 
> t-tunic persuasion with wide gores in the skirt.
>
> Then I sewed a set of gores in, inside-out. The project is currently on hold. 
> Those seams were tight! :)
>
> ==Marjorie Wilser
>
> @..@   @..@   @..@
> Three Toad Press
> http://3toad.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [h-cost] Is h-costume still going?

[Emily Gilbert]

Thanks!  I've only had one design published so far (the A Second Chance 
for Mr. Rushworth Socks in the 2014 issue of Jane Austen Knits 
magazine), but I have a shawl pattern that I'm hoping to publish 
independently soon.  My Ravelry name is LadySylvia; the sock pattern is 
linked from my profile, and the shawl will be put up for sale there.

http://www.ravelry.com/designers/emily-gilbert

Emily


On 12/17/2015 11:59 PM, Marjorie Wilser wrote:

  As a fellow knitter I’d be very interested to know about your designs. Do you 
have a Rav name?

==Marjorie Wilser


On Dec 17, 2015, at 12:40 PM, Emily Gilbert  wrote:

Having heard Ann's talk at the JASNA AGM, I can confirm that it was excellent 
in person too!

I'm still here too.  I haven't been doing much sewing lately, aside from making 
a chemisette to go with my Regency day dress this fall; most of my creative 
energies these days are focused on knitting design.

Emily


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Re: [h-cost] Is h-costume still going?

[Lavolta Press]

Maybe, but the family was very much at home in that scene.

Fran
Lavolta Press
www.lavoltapress.com

On 12/18/2015 4:02 AM, Elizabeth Jones wrote:

I actually wonder about how charity sewing would fit in to the fancy
vs plain sewing rule in Mansfield Park there is one evening (I think
they have company over but I can't remember) when Mrs Norris complains
that Fanny should be sewing and if she has nothing of her own to work
on there is plenty of work in the 'poor box'. Implying that making
things for the poor (almost certainly underclothes, the workwoman's
guide is only slightly later than this novel and it has a lot to say
about making underclothes and baby clothes as charity) was a normal
and expected occupation for young ladies. If it was somehow clear that
what you were making was for the poor of the parish instead of your
own family working on that in public would show off your charitable
virtues (not a bad thing for a gentleman to look for in a wife as
anything that makes your tenants happier is likely to make your estate
more stable and profitable).
Elizabeth

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 6:23 AM, Lavolta Press  wrote:

I get the impression that in the nineteenth century there was "private"
versus "public" needlework.  Unmarried young women, at least, tended to do
mending and make underclothes (shirts fell into that category) only within
the family (when no callers were expected) or at most, only in front of
intimate female friends. Their public, "fine" needlework showed off their
skills in embroidery, netting, and so forth. When they made calls, they
might be embroidering a flounce for a dress, or embroidering a fire screen,
but not mending stockings.  Unpretentious matrons and mothers of large
families might do plain sewing and mending in a more public way, but elegant
married women, not.

Fran
Lavolta Press
www.lavoltapress.com



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Re: [h-cost] Is h-costume still going?

[Marjorie Wilser]

Congrats on your pattern publication, Emily and I’ll look you up! I am 
ever-so-conveniently (but unoriginally) MarjorieW on Rav. :)

==Marjorie Wilser

 @..@   @..@   @..@
Three Toad Press
http://3toad.blogspot.com/




> On Dec 18, 2015, at 8:53 AM, Emily Gilbert  wrote:
> 
> Thanks!  I've only had one design published so far (the A Second Chance for 
> Mr. Rushworth Socks in the 2014 issue of Jane Austen Knits magazine), but I 
> have a shawl pattern that I'm hoping to publish independently soon.  My 
> Ravelry name is LadySylvia; the sock pattern is linked from my profile, and 
> the shawl will be put up for sale there.
> http://www.ravelry.com/designers/emily-gilbert
> 
> Emily


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Re: [h-cost] Who's still here? & smock question

[Susan]

Hi,

Yes, the farmers smock frocks.  That a woman's shift is also called a smock 
makes it a bit hard to research on the web.   I've requested the Alice Armes 
book, another book by Beverly Marshall that says it has some history, the 
shire book, and "A Surrey smock: in the Weybridge Museum collection".  The 
last three are in aux stacks so i won't get them for a bit.


I was thinking of doing some regency era events over the next year and of 
using a smock as a lightwieght coat.


Susan

- Original Message - 
From: 

To: 
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2015 2:54 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who's still here? & smock question


You mean the farmer's big overshirt, right? (I ask because "smock" was 
also used as a term for a woman's shift or chemise, at least in parts of 
England. Read about smock races sometime.) Do you have the Shire album on 
the subject?
Also try "Dress of the People." I suspect the answer to your question, 
though, is probably not, but next to impossible to ferret out. If women 
did, they were probably rural residents doing hard work on farms, and, 
unless there is a stray traveler's account somewhere, unlikely to be 
recorded.


Ann Wass





-Original Message-
From: Susan 
To: Historical Costume 
Sent: Fri, Dec 18, 2015 12:10 am
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Who's still here?  & smock question

Hi all,
I'm still here.  I get fed up with facebook, and rarely with email lists, 
so

happy to see people.

Since you're all here ...  I've just gotten interested in english smocks
(18th - 19th c ones) and was debating making one. I've requested a bunch 
of
books from the library, and this question might be answered in one of 
them.

But ...

Did women wear the traditional smocks?  in any era?

thanks, Susan c (in seattle)

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Re: [h-cost] Charity Sewing

[Marjorie Wilser]

I vote for fiction. It seems wrong on so many levels. You don’t “cut a hole" in 
a (new!) stocking to darn. You cut a thread and let it ravel a little. In that 
day, I suspect making ANY kind of hole would never have happened. You wouldn’t 
destroy new goods for any reason, much less to make busy work.

However, the very idea of them darning stockings in a social setting is 
suspect. It just wouldn’t be done in polite circles. Wish I could help on the 
reference.

==Marjorie Wilser

 @..@   @..@   @..@
Three Toad Press
http://3toad.blogspot.com/


> On Dec 18, 2015, at 2:05 PM, aqua...@patriot.net wrote:
> 
> A young woman is visiting a household with other young women, and they are
> darning some stockings. It would not be proper to give her one of the
> family's stockings to mend, so they cut a hole in a new stocking for her
> to darn.
> 
> The whole idea seems silly to me, because it seems that there would be
> some new clothing to be made or something for her to do that would not
> require making busy work. That's why it sounds more like historical
> fiction.
> 
> Does it sound familiar to anyone?
> 
> Thanks!
> -Carol


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Re: [h-cost] Charity Sewing

[aquazoo]

There is a reference I've been trying to track down. This is one of those
"I heard it somewhere" stories. I asked a couple of groups on facebook
with no results, but maybe it will be familiar to someone here. It was
possibly from a novel, but I don't know if it's from the era or 20thC
historical fiction.

A young woman is visiting a household with other young women, and they are
darning some stockings. It would not be proper to give her one of the
family's stockings to mend, so they cut a hole in a new stocking for her
to darn.

The whole idea seems silly to me, because it seems that there would be
some new clothing to be made or something for her to do that would not
require making busy work. That's why it sounds more like historical
fiction.

Does it sound familiar to anyone?

Thanks!
-Carol



> I actually wonder about how charity sewing would fit in to the fancy
> vs plain sewing rule in Mansfield Park there is one evening (I think
> they have company over but I can't remember) when Mrs Norris complains
> that Fanny should be sewing and if she has nothing of her own to work
> on there is plenty of work in the 'poor box'. Implying that making
> things for the poor (almost certainly underclothes, the workwoman's
> guide is only slightly later than this novel and it has a lot to say
> about making underclothes and baby clothes as charity) was a normal
> and expected occupation for young ladies. If it was somehow clear that
> what you were making was for the poor of the parish instead of your
> own family working on that in public would show off your charitable
> virtues (not a bad thing for a gentleman to look for in a wife as
> anything that makes your tenants happier is likely to make your estate
> more stable and profitable).
> Elizabeth


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Re: [h-cost] Is h-costume still going?

[Wanda pease]

I'm still here too and sad that it's gone.  I tried the Facebook but nothing 
comes thru.  I'm discouraged and not a stupid user.  I've been using computers 
since ARPANET and Compuserve in the 1980s.

Regina

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 17, 2015, at 8:48 AM, Kate Bunting  wrote:
> 
> I'm still here too. I don't do much sewing but am still involved in
> historical reenactment.
> 
> Kate Bunting
> 
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Catherine Olanich Raymond <
> ca...@thyrsus.com> wrote:
> 
>>> On 12/17/2015 09:38 AM, annbw...@aol.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have been getting the monthly reminders from indra.com, but I have to
>>> admit I don't read them.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I also have something to share--this is based on the paper I gave at the
>>> Jane Austen Society of North America's annual general meeting in Louisville
>>> in October.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://www.jasna.org/persuasions/on-line/vol36no1/wass.html
>> Thanks for the URL, Ann!
>> 
>> My attempt to respond to the "is the list still going" post also drew a
>> rejection message.  Hopefully this will get through.
>> 
>> --
>> Catherine Olanich Raymond
>> ca...@thyrsus.com
>> (610) 805-9542
>> 
>> "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn."
>> Benjamin Franklin
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 

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Re: [h-cost] Is h-costume still going?

[Wanda pease]

Lots of luck.  My long term "guest". Took longer than planned to leave, I had 
to really clean, repaint, and tell myself no! I don't have guest room!

Regina
Sent from my iPad

On Dec 17, 2015, at 2:46 PM, Wicked Frau  wrote:

>> 
>> I am still here.  I have been waiting for a long term house guest to move
>> out (it is happening this weekend!) so I can un-clutter my beautiful sewing
>> room and get back at it!  I have been sewing in little spurts but the
>> projects have been mostly modern, albeit with wool and linen!
> 
> Sg
> 
> 
> 
 
 http://www.jasna.org/persuasions/on-line/vol36no1/wass.html
>>> Thanks for the URL, Ann!
>>> 
>>> My attempt to respond to the "is the list still going" post also drew a
>>> rejection message.  Hopefully this will get through.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Catherine Olanich Raymond
>>> ca...@thyrsus.com
>>> (610) 805-9542
>>> 
>>> "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn."
>>> Benjamin Franklin
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Re: [h-cost] Who's still here? & smock question

[Catherine Walton]

Hello Susan,
I've sent a reply to the list, but it hasn't appeared yet, so I'll copy 
it below.

Catherine.

On 18/12/2015 05:10, Susan wrote:

Hi all,
I'm still here.  I get fed up with facebook, and rarely with email 
lists, so happy to see people.


Since you're all here ...  I've just gotten interested in english 
smocks (18th - 19th c ones) and was debating making one.  I've 
requested a bunch of books from the library, and this question might 
be answered in one of them. But ...


Did women wear the traditional smocks?  in any era?

thanks, Susan c (in seattle)
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I have the Shire book by Alice Armes, "English Smocks", (9th ed., Dryad
Press Ltd., London, 1987).  The section on the history of the English
smock only refers to men wearing smocks, but there is a later section on
the trade emblems embroidered on the smocks includes:  "Milkmaids -
churns, butter pats, hearts, etc.".  An embroidery pattern included with
the book is for these symbols.

It also says that:  "Elaborately decorated smocks were not produced
before the middle of the eighteenth century, and they reached their
greatest perfection in the early part of the nineteenth century." Two of
the illustrations are photographs of smocks in the Victoria and Albert
Museum, so their site could be worth a search; others are from county
museums, such as the Castle Museum, Nottingham.

Catherine.



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