Re: [h-cost] feather dress
I think the easiest way to sew feathers is by using the feather pads. Here is a url for pads. The peacock or pheasant look the best for you want, I think. Victorian Millinery [EMAIL PROTECTED] 401 Fairview Ave. Frederick,MD 21701 301-694-8950 http://www.ostrich.com/shop/cat?cmd=pad-index ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1432 doublet - fastening?
Hello, everyone. Robin caught something yesterday, and followed up on her idea, and sent it on to me, and I did some following-up of my own, and it appears that I may have been leading y'all astray. Although I did not remember Sir John's effigy as being armored (and this is unclear from my photograph), I did find a better shot of the effigy online by googling for his name, and wading past all the stuff that was about his more-famous son, also known as Sir John. http://www.ukgraves.info/review.asp?id=24pic=10 As you can see, he's clearly armored. I do not know enough about 14th century armor so say with any degree of certainty that what he's got on could just be some sort of partial set of armor, such as one sometimes sees in 16th century portraits, or if he's wearing some sort of coat or jupon over armor. At best, my photo is an example of *something* (most likely body armor) being laced on the side. It is very likely *not* an example of side-laced clothing. (On the plus side, Sir John, jr. appears to have been a very interesting fellow, and the ukgraves site has got all kinds of interesting images, so this wasn't a total loss!) --Sue, going off feeling like a right eejit! :o) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] RE: Re: 1432 doublet - fastening?
There's the one I've got, from the effigy in Salisbury (dated 1380...at least, that's when the gentleman in question died). Of course, that's on a gentleman's cote, and not a lady's. Still, quite definitely side-laced. If you want a copy of the photo for your collection, let me know, and I'd be glad to send it on --Sue - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 11:40 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Re: 1432 doublet - fastening? I have seen occasional side lacings -- very rare, and the one that comes to my mind immediately is northern Italian. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Printed Cotton
Authentic for what? (time period, basically)Knowing a bit more would give us a better base from which to offer advice. ;o) --Sue - Original Message - From: Serena Dyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 7:03 AM Subject: [h-cost] Printed Cotton I found some suprisingly authentic printed cotton at my local fabric suppliers and I had to have it. However there was only roughly 1.5-2m. Any ideas about what I could do with it? Thanks Serena Dyer http://www.pemberleydesigns.co.uk ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Testing...
3-day weekend in the U.S. I'd imagine a lot of us are off doing family stuff, camping, etc. I've just come back from seeing Pirates3, myselflots of fun. Obligatory Costume Content: I, myself, am spending a good part of the weekend getting my garb ready for SCA tourney seasonMending, finishing hems, finally making that outer garment I swore I didn't want to do without for another year;o) --Sue - Original Message - From: Saragrace Knauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 9:01 AM Subject: [h-cost] Testing... Sure is quiet out there lately. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert?
That's a very cool website, although I find the graphics a little distracting. Thanks for the link! Now, I'm not a 19th century geek, but I find myself with a question about those split drawers (truly, just odd timing g...I went to a play this weekend that had midwestern-US-cancan-dancers in it, and for some reason, I was wondering if that flip the skirts up over one's head and wiggle one's backside move, or the high kicks, originally offered more of a *koff* view than we'd think). When did it become common practice for the split to be sewn up? --Sue - Original Message - From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? The lady in question is Elizabeth Stewart Clark. http://www.elizabethstewartclark.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert?
Dunno about the 18th century, but there are rare surviving examples of them from the 16th century. I suspect that it was something that came and went, as a style. --Sue - Original Message - From: Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? Just a little note, when talking about split drawers. When i went to the exhibition about the elegant courtlife in the time of Frederik V, there was in the catalogue pictures of the queens midges clothes. Its a whole outfit, chemise- split drawers,stays, petticoat with hip pads, skirt and a Brunswick overdress with hood. Its 1770ies, and i thoaght they didnt wear underdrawers? Now Denmark had a cold climate during the winter season, perhaps it was a nescesity for the ladies two? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert?
Thanks, Sunny...those were the ones I was thinking of when I posted this morning (the ones in _QE Unlocked_). --Sue - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Split drawer's expert? I'm neew to this list and have enjoyed learning a lot of different things. I do recreating the 1500's. I didn't realize that they had split drawers in the 16th cen. Do you have any historical evidence that they had them in the nobility class in the midto late 1500's, and what they were made of? I would appreciate any information. Lynn I'm not an expert on split drawers, but I believe the surviving examples in the 1500s are all Italian (and all decidedly upper-class). They are discussed in either _Moda a Firenze_ or _Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd_ (I'm away from my library so I can't check, sorry! It may be discussed in both...). Another place to look is the Realm of VenusLibraryDrawers - Brache or Calze: The article is: http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/drawers.htm Pictures of extant drawers (not all with split legs): http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/extdraw.htm http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/extdraw1.htm http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/extdraw2.htm A while ago, I thought someone from this list went to the Met in NY to look at extant 16th cent. Italian chemises and drawers, but I no longer remember _who_... Hope that helps, -sunny ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting
My copy of the Tres Riches Heures does show that scene (one of the winter ones), and it has not only male peasants warming themselves, but at least one female one, as well. The anatomical differences are, uhm, pretty obvious. ;o) --sue in montana - Original Message - From: Kate M Bunting [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ahem-something interesting On the subject of bowdlerised paintings - isn't there a medieval scene (I think in the Tres Riches Heures) showing people warming themselves by a fire, including a man holding up his tunic (?) skirts and showing everything? I've seen a reproduction of that with the relevant area blurred over. Also, Hogarth painted a friend of his leaning out of bed being sick in a chamber pot, which was later repainted at the request of the man's family to make him appear to be reading in bed. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery
We're out here, but at least one of us (me) was completely involved in helping with a local SCA event yesterday, and just now getting caught up in the flood of emails! ;o) --Sue - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 7:56 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery And here I thought this list would be full of people who who were obsessive about embroidery history who would have this stuff at their fingertips. I have no clue what sources are standard on stitch types, existing artifacts, etc. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery
The earliest known *dated* sampler is the Bostocke sampler at the VA, but it's not actually the oldest sampler. There are several in my book Embroideries and Samplers from Islamic Egypt, and they *all* significantly predate the Bostocke sampler. Which is, nonetheless, one of my favorite pieces in the world g...I pretty much expected beams of light and choirs of angels, when I actually found that sampler in the textile rooms at the VA. But then, I'm an embroidery geek of long standing! --Sue in Montana - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery Although with some stitches you can't help making the back nearly as neat as the front (classics indeed being blackwork and tent stitch, etc), I'm not aware of any medieval embroidery being made this way on purpose. And whether styles like blackwork or asissi work, or several others, very much depends on your geographical context. Its appearance at cuffs and collars doesn't have any real relevance to the state of the back, as embroidery was done prior to the making up of the garment (usually), so that the back of the work would be unlikely to be seen. As far as I'm aware the neatness of the back of embroidery dates to the beginnings of samplers - and the earliest known one of these is late 16th century (I think - the one in the va textiles room). Both sides same embroidery, where the intention of the work is to have both sides looking exactly the same is 19th century thing (possibly late 18th??), that came about for use on things like military standards. It's also incredibly difficult to do, and one of the banes of my life!!:o) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery
There are actually 16th century portraits out there, in which there are clearly two *different* patterns on the two sides of a collar. It's also obvious, from some of the construction details, that collars had both an inside layer of fabric and an outer (I'm avoiding saying always, of course). There's a boy's shirt from, I think, the 1540's, currently at the VA, which has a small ruffle extending out from the shirt collar. It's pretty clear that the shirt-edge of the ruffle is enclosed between two layers of collar. I'm guessing that your friend is more likely to find evidence of reversability in the cuffs and ruffles (applied or integral), than in the collars. --Sue - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 6:47 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery On Sat, 5 May 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its appearance at cuffs and collars doesn't have any real relevance to the state of the back, as embroidery was done prior to the making up of the garment (usually), so that the back of the work would be unlikely to be seen. That would certainly be the case for, say, a doublet, but for the cuffs or collars of linen chemises, which are not lined, why would the embroidery be done in advance, or assumed not to be seen? Chemises in 16th century paintings are often shown with blackwork embroidery on cuff edges and collars; presumably the insides of the cuffs would be readily visible, and collars might be turned out in some cases. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery
The closest that I can think of, would be this book (one of my faves): Embroideries ans Samplers from Islamic Egypt by Marianne Ellis. (Ashmolean Museum, University of Oxford, 2001). ISBN: 1-85444-135-3 (for the paperback version). It's an examination of embroidered textiles, most of which (they think) were used for clothing and light furnishings, and examples range from the Tulunid period (late 9th century) through the Mamluk period (up to 1517). There are a fair number of pieces containing surface embroidery stitches (split stitch, chain stitch, stem stitch, cross stitch, etc.), but a significant number of the pieces comprise some form of monochrome embroidery--double-running stitch, pattern darning, pulled-thread and drawn-thread work, etc. There's a rather nice sampler, for instance, which has been carbon-dated to the 14th century, and which was done in blue silk (and plain linen) threads on linen, and uses double-running stitches and drawn-thread work. There's also a fragment of something they're assuming was part of a towel border, and it's done in blue silk, using double-running stitch. (a repeating pattern of birds, late 14th-early 15th century). There are also a couple of pieces clearly meant to be shirts/tunics, but the embroidery is being used on the sleeves, body, etc., and not so much on collar and cuffs. It's clearly not an examination of European textiles and embroidery, but the author does go to some effort to point out stylistic connections between these bits and later European usage. (Theory being short version that these Islamic-based styles and techniques spread into Europe on trade routes.) --Sue - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 10:02 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Medieval embroidery On Sat, 5 May 2007, Susan B. Farmer wrote: There are lots of examples from this period both in English and Italian art where the collar/cuffs are embroidered with the implication that both sides will be seen -- more can be forthcoming if you need additional examples. I don't know what the earliest such example is, though. I've sent my contact the images already cited as proof-of-concept for Tudor period, and the information posted here that there were stitches that could be reversible. That's a good start, but for publication purposes she needs a published source on the stitch types for that period (as seen in real examples); is there a book that examines historic stitching with close regard to period, e.g. not just saying this stitch is medieval but rather these stitches appear in X type of artifacts from Y time and Z place? Holy grail here would be examples of embroidery from c. 1400 clearly meant to be viewed on the reverse. Possibly not available, though. Extant pieces from 1400 are a lot rarer than from 1550. But it's not my area so I don't know all the standard sources the way I do in my own specialties. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual???? OT
*snerk* I'd always assumed that it meant someone (gender unspecified) who was somewhat...omnivorous in his/her tastes in partners. ;o) --Sue, apparently pretty clueless about this one - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 4:43 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metrosexual OT In a message dated 5/5/2007 2:49:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I heard the word Metrosexual (MS) for the first time in my life earlier this week in reference to what I can't remember, then I heard it yesterday for the second time on the TFS, and just now on NPR on Wait Wait Don't Tell Me. Jeez, that expression is so last year, or is it two years ago? No, not gay, as others have already said. But really into grooming--professional manicures, facials, and such, and clothes, too, I suppose, although exactly what THE fashion look was, I'm not clear on--not sure there was ONE look, clothes-wise. Fastidious, though, for sure. I think maybe I would consider Henry VIII a little too lusty to qualify. While metrosexuals weren't gay, I also don't think they were into, you know, whatever, whenever. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]Theater vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern
Frankly, I thinking working with fabrics in authentic widths would be a blast. But then, I'm here more for the historical/reenactment end of things. And if I ever win the lottery (not that I play, mind you, but), then porsches be darned, I'm getting some of those exquisite silk velvets that cost, what was it, 1500? 1600? euro/meter? --Sue - Original Message - From: Abel, Cynthia [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 1:45 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost]Theater vs Historic (was:new Butterick pattern What most of us couldn't afford to today is the amount of money people in the past had to spend on a single outfit. One noble person's single ensemble,during the reign of Elizabeth I, for court wear, could cost as much as a Porshe or more today. And would we want to have to work with lengths of expensive fabrics as narrow as 21 wide? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] i cant deside.........
I agree with you about the ruching vs. the pleating. There's definitely a lot more color play with the ruching. Dunno about the gold trim--it might be just right, or it might be too much. I think it would depend on the overall scale of the gown. If it's big and oversized, etc., etc. you could go with the wider trim without a qualm. But if it's a more restrained style??? I'm saying this from a purely personal perspective, I should add, since I really don't have much experience with 18th century clothing. How does your gold trim fit into the scale of how things were added to dresses then? --Sue - Original Message - From: Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 1:01 PM Subject: [h-cost] i cant deside. If you would give me your 2 cents, i would be very pleased. I spended this day desiding wich trim to use on the red francaise dress i am going to make. But desided i have not yeat! On the left side i made box pleatings with a tiny gold trim in the edge. On the right side i have made the trim ruched and used a bigger gold trim. I think the left box pleated side is two boring, its flat, and not at all like i wanted it, the ruched one gives more shading to the silk. Is the gold trim two much? What do you think? http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/sofie3-35.htm Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today?
Nothing. Or everything. g Okay...I don't *have* a dummy. I *am*, however, working on some early 13th century gowns for this summer though--a couple in linen, at least one in wool, and a gardecorps. --Sue - Original Message - From: Cin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-cost [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 7:08 PM Subject: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing today? I just love starting this thread... such interesting answers. --cin Cynthia Barnes ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] knitted garters (when) are they period?
You do see evidence of what we now call garter stitch in the sixteenth century, but I don't know that we have a. any evidence that it was *called* garter stitch *in the 16th century* or b. any evidence that it was *used* for garters at that time. ;o) I'd have to defer to those of you who specialize in later time periods than I, which is where I'd suspect that we find more info on the use of various knitted items for the lower limbs, as they become more common... --Sue - Original Message - From: Carol Kocian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] knitted garters (when) are they period? On Apr 13, 2007, at 12:05 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (we're told that the garter stitch is called that because it was used for garters--can anybody verify this?) I heard that too, however garter stitch can be found as the treatment for hand-knit stocking tops. I've heard the tops called welts and also garters, so I wonder if that's how garter stitch gets its name? -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]Canadian Smocking
The strapwork on the sleeves, I'm guessing. But I think it's actual strapwork, and not smocking --Sue - Original Message - From: Saragrace Knauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 7:27 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost]Canadian Smocking What are you looking at on this picture?I don't see anything that looks like smocking. I see a lot of slashing?? Sg - Original Message - From: otsistomailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costumemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 8:35 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost]Canadian Smocking http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth12.jpghttp://www.tudor-portraitscom /Elizabeth12.jpg ___ h-costume mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] knitted garters (when) are they period?
I think you'd be better off with cloth garters. I don't know of any extant knitted garters from the 16th century (nor any references to them, off the top of my head). You could make the cloth garters out of strips of fabric, or make your own--inkle weaving or some other type of narrow ware like tablet weaving (still a known technique in the 16th century, but not as popular as earlier, from what I've heard). Or perhaps a really wide strip of fingerloop braid, which would certainly be an appropriate technique. The Eleanor of Toledo remains had strips of fabric associated with her knitted silk stockings, but it is now held that those weren't garters as much as they were meant to hold her legs together for the actual burial. I seem to recall seeing garters that looked like fabric in some men's portraits, rather than leather. I've got some inexpensive garters for my 14th c. linen hose (made of bias-cut fabric). They're a simple, dyed twill, cotton ribbon. Eventually, I'll be making some using tablet weaving, though. --Sue - Original Message - From: Elizabeth Walpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historic Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 8:03 PM Subject: [h-cost] knitted garters (when) are they period? hello everyone, I'm planning to make a pair of cloth hose for 16th century wear but as I don't have the fabric for the hose themselves yet I thought I would start with the garters. Everyone I've seen wearing these hose seems to use leather garters but I can't afford to go out and buy that sort of thing at the moment so I thought of knitting some garters to hold up my hose. Does anybody know of evidence for knitted garters at any point in history but preferably the 16th century? I ask because at the moment I'm doing an experiment using cheap acrylic yarn that I had on hand (bought by my grandma a couple of years ago) and if knitted garters are period at all I will knit another set in wool, but if not I'll use the acrylic ones until I can replace them with leather. thanks, Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movie influences on fashion - shoes
That's entirely possible--it had the look of a really good costume--nice design, and whoever sewed it did a nice job as well (and fabric choice--some sort of crisp cotton in a non-inappropriate color). I'm not really familiar with what's available, commercially, for children, though, so I couldn't say for sure. I've heard of the whole American Girl thing (dolls and books and all), but that's about it. --Sue - Original Message - From: Sharon Collier [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Historical Costume' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 9:43 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Movie influences on fashion - shoes Was she perhaps wearing an American Girl dress, Felicity reproduction? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 6:40 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movie influences on fashion - shoes Speaking of historical influences, when I was at brunch with friends this past Sunday, we saw the cutest little girl (7 or 8), wearing the most adorable child's version of an 18th century gown, complete with petticoat. The rest of the family was in ordinary good clothes, and she was in her best dress. (Nicely done, too, from what I can tell without being an expert in the time) --Sue ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movie influences on fashion - shoes
Speaking of historical influences, when I was at brunch with friends this past Sunday, we saw the cutest little girl (7 or 8), wearing the most adorable child's version of an 18th century gown, complete with petticoat. The rest of the family was in ordinary good clothes, and she was in her best dress. (Nicely done, too, from what I can tell without being an expert in the time) --Sue - Original Message - From: WickedFrau [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Historical Costume' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 4:30 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Movie influences on fashion - shoes Irrespective of all that, I think it is cool to see the influence on modern dress. Complete accuracy aside, it is a fun discovery when you find something that may pass for a period shoe. Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Back from Costume Con
I've met you, and I wouldn't have known it was you, either, from the photographs! --Sue, who'd love to go to one of these things some day - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 8:23 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Back from Costume Con My teenage son declared that he wouldn't have known it was me if he hadn't seen me come down the stairs in our own house. And several people who knew me didn't recognize me in goth getup at Costume-Con. That made me feel a little better about walking by so many other people I should have known! --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Translation help
I've seen both terms used, so neither statement strikes me as particularly jarring. Feel comes off a little more, uhm, casual? colloquial? while hand sounds a bit more inclusive. Although it may just be my reading of the words, I'd think of feel as more of a texture reference, while hand is texture and drape and heaviness Of course, I'm typing all of this while heating my morning tea, so it's all done pre-caffeine. ;o) Don't hold me overly accountable if I don't make too much sense, please! --Sue - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historic Costume List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 6:53 PM Subject: [h-cost] Translation help I need reactions from a sampling of avid readers of textile literature, and where better to find it than here? I'm editing a paper on textile analysis written by someone whose native language is not English. Some of the terms and idioms have come through a bit odd, and part of my job is to smooth it out so as not to jar the reader. The author is listing characteristics of fabric, including its appearance, handle, and properties. Obviously handle is the word that doesn't ring true here. My co-editor pencilled in feel. The fabric-user in me thinks hand, but perhaps that is not so well-understood a term. If you read either of these phrases in an article, would it pull you up short, or would it make sense to you? ...the properties, hand, and appearance of a finished fabric. ...the properties, feel, and appearance of a finished fabric. Other suggestions welcome. I don't think texture will work in context, because that turns out to be one of many factors in the handle. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] rich man
sigh, drool, drool, indeed! I think I'm in love! --Sue, craving the blue/yellow lampas weaveonly $240/yd. - Original Message - From: Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 1:35 PM Subject: [h-cost] rich man If i were a rich man: http://tinyurl.com/3888jm Sigh droll droll Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Thread question fabric sale
I'm guessing that it refers to threads twisted/plied to the left, or counter-clockwise. That would make them S-twist, I think. --Sue, who had to pretend-ply to figure it out ;o) - Original Message - From: Cynthia J Ley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Thread question fabric sale Fibers can be spun in S twist or Z twist, but I forget which is which. Arlys On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:15:12 -0400 Kate Pinner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A colleague of mine was cleaning out some of his grandfather's stuff (he was a furrier)and brought me 2 cones of New Bedford Thread Co. thread, #90 left twist. It is wonderful stuff! What does left twist mean? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Returning to h-cost
Welcome back! I've seen stuff on leading strings in one of my (very few) books on 18th century costuming for reenactors, but nothing for earlier time periods, outside of those embroidered bands in the book on the embroidery of Mary Stuart. There was a recent thread concerning children's clothing and patterns--I'm pretty *sure* it was on this list. Burda as the manufacturer, maybe? It's not something I saved, or paid too much attention to, so hopefully someone can give you more details --Sue in Montana - Original Message - From: Rebecca Schmitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Historical Costume' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 10:08 AM Subject: [h-cost] Returning to h-cost Hello all! I am Rebecca and am returning to H-cost after a leave of absense due to child-rearing :) I signed off a bit over a year ago for childbirth, and figured toddlerhood was a good time to go back to something that might help me keep my sanity (or lose even more of it - whichever feels better at the time :) I do mostly Elizabethan, and am on cast at the Bristol Renn Faire. Being out of the loop for awhile, I'm wondering if any children's patterns have come on the market in the past year? Aforementioned toddler will need clothing for this season. Also, if anyone has good information on leading strings...toddler will be ~20 months when season starts, and we work around an open fire, so I want to be able to have control of him at all times. Leading strings seemed to be a good start :) *** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agness Cabot, Guilde of St. Lawrence Bristol Renaissance Faire ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] silk jersey knit
ProbablyI don't do gentleman's clothing (or 18th century, although I dream of some day having a gown or two), but I'd think that the silk knit would do fine. I know that, during the period about which I know the most (16th c. England), there were both knitted and woven-cloth hose, so if I were going to use something like silk jersey, I'd probably base them on extant examples. You might have to play with bits of it, to test for stretch, etc. Silk's not the most resilient of fibers, and I've never had any that was knitted as fine as a jersey, so I don't know how the non-stretchy silk and the stretchy knit construction would interact around your ankles, etc. I'm determined to make myself a pair of Eleanor stockings some day, and I haven't been in a yarn store, yet, that hasn't tried to talk me out of doing 100% silk--most recommend a blend, without understanding the whole recreationist thing --Sue in wintery Montana, where she's given up on Spring, and *bought* herself a pot of blooming crocus this afternoon - Original Message - From: Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 12:06 PM Subject: [h-cost] silk jersey knit Hi, Found out James Hare has silk jersey and i wondered do you think i could sew gentlemens stockings from this? 18th century? Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] what is your favorite magazine?
Well, Harper's, but that's not an inspiration-source for costuming/needlework, etc., so I'd have to say I really enjoy the following: Piecework (especially the older ones) SpinOff Handwoven and Knitty (which is electronic format) Threads is good, too, but I don't have too much of a use for that sort of thing, so I don't purchase it. --Sue - Original Message - From: Chiara Francesca [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 7:59 AM Subject: [h-cost] what is your favorite magazine? After reading Bjarne's email about the embroidery magazine I started thinking about what all is out there that we actually purchase for ourselves and for inspiration when it comes to embroidery, costumes, design, or just plain relaxation. What magazines do you all purchase whether or not you have the time to actually read them right there and then? For me this would be Threads: http://www.taunton.com/Threads/ I really have not had time to get any others lately but still am interested in what is out there that is actually being purchased cause there are just tons out there! :) Chiara ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 2,6 oz silk taffeta
I'd think so, Bjarnethe handkerchief linen I use for shifts and veils is 3.1 oz, and it's fairly light. A little more substantial than my ideal (for handkerchief linen), but considered lightweight, nonetheless. --Sue in Montana - Original Message - From: Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 6:48 AM Subject: [h-cost] 2,6 oz silk taffeta Hi, Could someone help me out with this. A silk taffeta with the weight of 2,6 oz would that be a very light thin silk taffeta? Thanks in advance Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] historic academic robes
Alcega? ;o) Seriously, though, if you're thinking regular commercial pattern, I really haven't seen anything out there that might qualify as a pattern for academic robes. Doesn't mean it's not out there, just that I, myself, haven't seen it. Good luck, though, and congrats on graduating! --Sue - Original Message - From: Althea Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 9:37 AM Subject: [h-cost] historic academic robes hello all, I've gotten permission to make my own cap, gown and hood for my graduation this June. I would like to use the Alcega scholar's robe, or something similar. Does anyone know of a good source for patterns? Thank you! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] anglaise??
Something in an English style, or something (an accessory?) associated especially strongly with the English? --Sue - Original Message - From: Kate Pinner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Historical Costume' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 4:08 PM Subject: [h-cost] anglaise?? Anybody know what an anglaise is? The quote from Woyzeck (written by Beuchner in 1836) has him talking to a Captain '...if I were a proper gentleman with a watch and an anglaise '... Kate ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
I'm American, as well, and, like Patty, always thought of ultramarine as a slightly greenish darkish blue (like a bright navy with a hint of green to it). If I remember to put aubergine through my mental translation program, and think oh, yeah...that's equivalent to eggplant, I wouldn't think of it as anything but a really strong, dark purple. Dunno about the generational thing--maybe the yahoos who are coming up with new names for next season's in colors are running out of ideas? ;o) --Sue - Original Message - From: Rickard, Patty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 7:58 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help American here - ultramarine was strong darkish slightly greenish blue for me -when I was a girl - maybe a generational, not national, thing? Patty -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 4:22 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help At 09:06 26/01/2007, you wrote: Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26/01/2007 02:58 wrote: Bear in mind that the meanings of many Victorian color names changed from fashion season to fashion season; and also, different, trendier names were often applied to the same old colors. I find this is still true. Here in the UK aubergine is usually a dark purple (the colour of what you Americans call eggplants), but in a recent catalogue I've seen the name applied to a lighter pinkish-purple. I was buying cotton thread yesterday, and the mauve/purple/paler aubergine thread was called Ultramarine. Now when I was a girl, as they say, ultramarine was a strong darkish bright blue. My American companion said that the purple-ish colour was a colour/name association she knew - I didn't! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] As a courtesy .. .. ..
She actually spammed a bunch of lists I'm on with this, and I don't know that *any* of them were exclusively SCA I'd have just deleted them, but I get those lists as digests --Sue, working on ideas for weaving her own belt for a Norman gown - Original Message - From: Diana Habra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] As a courtesy .. .. .. With all due respect, your announcement is off-topic. Let's stick to costuming-related items, please :~) Diana Unto my friends and all the noble and gentle folk to whom this message comes, Greeting and Salutation. Let it be known amongst the Land, that as of this day 20 Ianuarii , I, until now known as Norayn of The Wood, from the great lands of the Kingdom of Atlantia ,shall henceforth be known as Vederun (Frederun),in conformity with the rules and usages of the Current Middle Ages. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] man's coat
That is very cool! It reminds me a *lot* of the stuff that Bjarne does! --Sue - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 2:44 AM Subject: [h-cost] man's coat Thought some would like to see this. http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_32.htm De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Help finding an article?
I've got a photocopy in my stash somewhere --Sue, blissfully lucky to know some *very* good librarians;o) - Original Message - From: Catherine Kinsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 12:04 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Help finding an article? Quoting Genie Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello All, I am trying to find a copy of Janet Arnold's copy of: Elizagethan and Jacobean Smocks and Shirts that is in Waffen-und Kostumkunde Pt. 2 (1973) pp. 109-124. Is there anyone out there that might have a copy? I need it for a bit of research I'm doing and, like usual, I am rather late in doing the research so can't ILL it. Don't have the journal, but my University generally gets stuff to me in about a week. I know that different libraries are different -- want me to try and get it for you? susan - Wait, I may have access to it elsewhere. I'll let you know if I still need it. Thanks, Maggie -- Great minds are running down the same track! This has been one of the few things my local ILL has failed to find for me so if anyone does have it, I would really appreciate a copy. Thanks! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Appearance of ladies' houpelandes???
Thanks for the reminder on the terminology g. It's awkward sometimes, switching back and forth between terms used in a given period, and terms used now, let alone oddities like garb that are subgroup specific. ;o) What I've been finding, graphically, certainly supports what you're saying. I'm seeing bits and pieces in various texts (costuming books, mostly) that mention the appearance of pleated gowns/houpelandes in men, earlier than in women. And I remember you talking in one of your lectures about wearing a proper fitted gown as an underlayer for a houp. Since, eventually, I'll actually be making clothing appropriate for my SCA persona, who wears English styles of the mid-late 1300s, I'm trying to pin down when houps first appeared as feminine apparel, and in what forms. I want to be able to give myself more options than just a kirtle/fitted gown-and-surcoat combination. A couple of shifts, a couple of undergowns, and a couple of options for the outer layer, ideally. (Plus accessories, headgear, etc., of course.) I've got a friend with some books that have images of brasses--I'll check those out. Mostly what I've got, myself, is a moderately bad reprint of the Tres Rich Heures, which I'll use if I have to;o) --Sue - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Appearance of ladies' houpelandes??? I've seen them in English brasses from the 1390s or so, but most of the manuscript images I can think of are 1400-1430. Be aware, too, that in the 1380s and 1390s you see some gowns that look like early versions of what we call houppelandes now -- full in the body but not quite so full as later, high neckline or a bit of a collar but not the very tall ones yet, fairly narrow but not tight sleeves that haven't yet grown into the big bells or bags. The transition is gradual, so it's hard to point to a moment when the gowns officially qualify as houppelandes, and probably most of the people at the time called them all gowns (or their language's equivalent of that word) anyway. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Appearance of ladies' houpelandes???
I'm in the early stages of thinking about undertaking a houp...like, in a year or so, predicated, of course, on the theory that I'll actually have built the correct garments to go *underneath* by then! ;o) I've been wondering, though...when did they first start showing up as being worn by women? I'm specifically interested in the earlier styles --Sue, in a sunny-but-cold Montana winter (brrr...darned good time to stay in and look through costuming books, and peruse fabric stash.) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] OT? Firefly/Serenity costumes....
Hope this is okayH-costume being the only relatively-general costume list I'm on. Has anyone out there ever done anything with the costumes from either the movie or the series? For some reason, the recent thread about hall costumes for CostumeCon, combined with a recent Serenity marathon, has created this odd urge to make something...different. Something that would look good under a brown coat. Oh, and a brown coat, of course. I think it would be a lot of fun to play with the combinations of western, chinese, and futuristic style elements --Sue, also feeling a craving for something from Middle Earth.*sigh*..I don't have enough time as it is! ;o) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon and projects
That sounds like it would be an eye-watering match to my long-planned-never-made Tequila Sunrise fitted gown. Hot pink/fuchsia wool gown (lined in matching hot pink linen), with a surcoat in tangerine orange velvet. I believe I have enough fuchsia-purple to do an optional overgown, if'n I wanted. ;o) --Sue, tied to local (SCA) obligations in March, so no CostumeCon for her ;o( - Original Message - From: Suzanne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 5:34 PM Subject: [h-cost] CostumeCon and projects Answering more than one question at once: Yes, I plan on going to CostumeCon. Mostly for the Netherton sequence ;-) but what the heck, might as well stay for Sunday, too. Since I've never gone before, what do I need to know ahead of time? Costuming is a hobby, not my profession, so I'm a little worried about how I'll fit in. Like, what's a hall costume??!? I'm assuming that we all wear our stuff all the time but that you keep the competition main entries under wraps until the last minute, so anything else is a hall costume... is that about right? And because of CostumeCon, I've bumped the orange Italian Ren aka Hobby Lobby Florentine (no spinach, just cabbage) to the top of my list of projects to complete this year. For the Sunday ORANGE hall costume contest. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The bead-net dress (was: movie costumes--Egyptian)
Try Fire Mountain Gems, maybe? They're in Oregon, but I know that they do mail order --Sue - Original Message - From: Catherine Olanich Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] The bead-net dress (was: movie costumes--Egyptian) On Friday 05 January 2007 8:33 pm, LuAnn Mason wrote: Dental floss would be one option, but ever since I discovered kevlar beading thread, I haven't used dental floss again. The kevlar is nice and thin like regular thread, cuts easily, and doesn't fray like dental floss. Just an alternative Never heard of the stuff, but it sounds like it's worth a try! Where does one buy it? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] velvet question
I haven't heard of the Egyptian piled fabric, but as far as I know, velvet was invented well *after* the Viking Age, so no velvet Viking poofy pants! ;oD --Sue - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:38 PM Subject: [h-cost] velvet question On a Norse list some people are trying to find out whether velvet or velvet like material was around during the Viking age. There is something about Egypt having a pile type fabric but someone send that it was totally different from velvet. So does anyone have the skinny on the subject? Thank you, De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 2007
I do remember, although mostly I remember you talking about silk fabric and how it works with the whole GFD engineering ideas. You actually showed us a couple of different ones, including one that was wool in some sort of diamond pattern? (foggy memory on the details). --Sue, who is going to be dabbling in the 13th century this year, and if she still fits into her GFD pattern, will be making one of those. Finally. ;o) - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 2007 When thinking realistic, what do you think you will finish of historical costumes in 2007? I don't do much sewing these days, but I have a few must-do projects for the next few months. I have been dieting for health reasons, and after dropping 18 pounds have found that the Gothic fitted dress I use for my lectures is now too large for my new figure. I would like to re-make it before I speak at CostumeCon at the end of March. In a pinch I can wear my last lecture dress, about a decade old now, which once again fits me, but it is not ideal, as it is silk, and I like to demonstrate the effects of wool, which was historically more typical. (Sue C. will remember the silk dress as the one I wore in Boise.) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
See, for me, it wouldn't have been convincing at all, given the (to me) obvious visual clues. We'll all pick up on different things, depending on our levels of interest/expertise, etc. I'm betting that most people in the intended audience of the movies discussed earlier in the thread would have the same reaction to peasants in burlap as you do to an Egyptian queen wearing clothing centuries, if not actual millenia, out of date. --Sue - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes In a message dated 1/2/2007 7:52:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Well it may have been crocheted...or just knotted in some waybut you get the idea. I'm remembering, or trying to, something from long ago. * Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? ** Good question. But in this case, I don't care. This was TV... a movie, not a museum piece. And she still looked great and totally convincing. It's Potiphar's wife y'know. She doesn't even have a name as far as I know. And he was sexy and seductive, as per her theatrical purpose. It was beautiful! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
Did I *ever* say, or intimate that Egyptians were primitive? Huh? Wherever did you get *that* idea? I asked if there was any evidence of *linens* being dyed *at that time.* Linens are notoriously difficult to dye using natural dyes. Good grief. --Sue - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 1:04 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] movie costumes The Coptic's had a form of needle knitting and to my understanding a form of macramé' was known in Egypt. They also knew how to dye their fabrics. This is a start. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/fabrics.htm http://africanhistory.about.com/od/hieroglyphs/a/ColorTech.htm What makes you think that they were so primitive as to not know how to dye fabrics? De -Original Message- Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? --Sue ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
You mean nalbinding? I don't believe there's any evidence of it being used for larger items of clothing, such as dresses. I know of socks, and a hat. No dresses. --Sue - Original Message - From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. The Coptic people did a thing that looked a lot like knitting. Is this movie example something so far off? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] name of a hat?
DunnoI've always heard them referred to in informal terms--coffee filter hat, pie-crust hat, etc., depending on the particular style. You might look at the hat section in Cynthia Virtue's website--I recall seeing hat-ish stuff there in the past. --Sue - Original Message - From: Julie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 5:47 PM Subject: [h-cost] name of a hat? What is the correct name of the medieval hat commonly referred to as the coffee filter hat? It looks like a sailor's hat without any crown and usually involves a chin strap and a hair net. I finished one over the holidays. Looks pretty good but I don't know what to call it so I can turn it in as an arts project GG Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
A beaded/netted overgown? How cool is that? ;o) I hadn't heard of that intriguing garment, so thanks to you and the other poster who mentioned it. I can see now why the designers of AlbertCat's movie might have tried to imitate it. --Sue - Original Message - From: Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes On Jan 2, 2007, at 5:00 AM, Sue Clemenger wrote: Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? --Sue From the description, it sounds like it might have been inspired by a surviving Egyptian bead net dress -- a very open network made of threaded beads. The one I'm thinking of is basically a tubular sheath with shoulder straps and at the bottom hem it has a fringe of dangling flower-shaped beads. _Might_ -- I'd have to see the original to know if the suspicion holds up. There's a rather dark photograph of the item I'm thinking of about halfway down the page at: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/sexuality.html Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 1870s buttons....
I have a question for you 19th century types, born out of completely idle curiosity. This Christmas, I was given a lovely bracelet comprising different buttons from the 1870s. They are all about 1/2 inch in diameter, and have surprisingly complex and lovely designs in them. They are made of cut steel and brass, with occasional tiny flecks of what looks like marcasite, and are fairly hefty in weight for their size (because of the metal, I'm guessing). What on earth would something like that have been used on? The garment fabric would have to be pretty substantial to not deform or tear from the weight --Sue in Montana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? --Sue - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes In the one about Joseph, Potiphar and his wife look fantastic! If I remembershe was in a sheer coral red crinkled gauze shift to her feet that had a turquoise knitted over dress, very open in its working, that made the whole thing appear like a coral and turquoise geometric patterned tube that clung tightly to the body. The naked body showed thru the bright gauze and the open work knitted shift had bits of gold bobbles worked into it...and it ended in tied tassels at her ankles. She wore that familiar wig, like a big hair helmet with hammered gold leaves that dangled and shimmered all over it. The dark cole eyes and red lipsshe looked like she stepped off a Pyramid wall! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Christmas gift exchange
Hmmma nifty place to stop at, if I ever get stuck visiting relatives(my Mom grew up in Bridgeport.) --Sue - Original Message - From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christmas gift exchange The shop is called (creatively) Discount Fabrics. He's on the northern end of Main Street in Bridgeport. My phone book says 4198 Main, but he moved from one shop to another this summer and I'm not sure if this is the old address or the new address (several blocks apart). The phone number is 203-373-1025 (I assume that wouldn't have changed). I'm embarrassed to say I don't know his name! The shop is maybe a mile (maybe less) straight down from the Main Street exit off the Merritt Parkway, on the eastern side of the street. Harder to get to off I-95 but not impossible. --Ruth Anne On Dec 27, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Beth Chamberlain wrote: Could you share his name address, the shop that is. I'm on Long Island and my boyfriend is in Massachusetts so I drive by Bridgeport constantly. Not that I really need more fabric, trim, or anything else! Beth -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:h-costume- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ruth Anne Baumgartner Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 2:04 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christmas gift exchange He's in the north end of Bridgeport, CT. I've been telling him he HAS to go online, but so far he hasn't. He's kind of a shy man. Anyway, last week I did get him to promise maybe in the new year for a website. It's a mill-end shop, so the stock varies, but he has gorgeous silks (including dupioni) and linens, both 100% and various blends, and a great variety of trims. (Plus of course cotton prints, sequinned and embroidered fancy fabrics, fake furs, muslin in every width known to wo/man, etc. etc.) Prices are very good generally. I just succumbed to 3 yards of upholstery fabric in what the Crayola crayon company used to call Prussian blue with a brocade design of squares filled with Jacobean-style flowers alternating with a lattice pattern, tones of gold and rose. Sixty inches wide. $10 a yard. I didn't ask re fiber content, but it's got a very good hand and soft sheen--and the back, being primarily those rose tones, is almost pretty enough to show off on its own. Putting this on my livingroom futon would upgrade my whole home--but maybe I'll upholster MYSELF in it rather than my couch! Also got a yard of Czech rhinestone beading, $12.50--so far, just to look at! And what I bought two yards of and STAYED IN MY H-COST SANTA LIMIT is I think remarkable. His wife is Indian and he is from one of the Arab countries, and occasionally they also have scarves and pashminas, if they've recently taken a little trip to see their folks. Hop on a plane and come see me, Kimiko, and we can wallow around. --Ruth Anne On Dec 26, 2006, at 11:52 PM, Kimiko Small wrote: Alright Ruth Anne, where is this fabric store, and can we get there online? Do share anyways even if a physical store only, as I'm collecting good store recommendations. Kimiko Ruth Anne Baumgartner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I went to my favorite discount fabric store to shop for my partner's gift--he has gorgeous trims that are remarkably affordable-- __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Christmas gift exchange
Okay, with a hint like that, you just gotta tell us what the dye substance was, or we'll just *DIE* of curiosity! ;o) --Sue - Original Message - From: Genie Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Christmas gift exchange At 01:32 AM 12/25/2006, you wrote: Reading some of these marvelous descriptions of gift packages, I'm amazed that they fit in the prescribed $10-$15 range! I think some of our talented listmembers undervalued their abilities ;-) I'm so dull. Two years now I have sent fabric. But very nice, useful fabric. --Robin I'm like you, Robin, I just sent one thing Music. But I love the hand died wool I got from Debbie Lough! I just have to think of the right sort of embroidery to use it on. And no, Debbie, I wasn't offended by what was used to make that lovely yellow. GRIN Happy Holidays to all... And a very happy New Year! Genie Barrett ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Christmas gift exchange
Cool! I've wanted to do a fermented indigo vat, at least one version of that involving a similar substance, but don't have the space/place for it, given the odiferous results. I live in a house chopped up into apartments, and I'm pretty sure the neighbors wouldn't care for it! ;o) I haven't heard of using pee with weld, though...I wonder how the change in pH affects the weld? --Sue, occasional dabbler in natural dyes - Original Message - From: Genie Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Christmas gift exchange At 02:54 PM 12/26/2006, you wrote: Okay, with a hint like that, you just gotta tell us what the dye substance was, or we'll just *DIE* of curiosity! ;o) --Sue Oh fine GRIN and I quote... Weld and piss Genie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1450 - pregnant?
If I recall correctly, through the mists of time and cold medicine ;o), I remember you pointing out (at the workshop in Boise) that the different silhouettes we were coming up with during the fittings were appropriate to different decades/time periods. The one I got, which was a smoother, rounded, slightly lower version, was, I *think* a slightly older style than that achieved by the younger/slimmer/perkier types. Suits me just fine, though--with the size of my chest, something really perky gives me a horizontal shelf right below my chin! I don't remember you talking much about the skirt fullness, although the weekend was so chock-full of details and bits, that I may just have missed it. Do the skirts getting increasingly full as the decades pass, or less so? I'm grumpy, though...I've misplaced my fitting shell. I'm really keeping my fingers crossed that it's in the storage unit. I will be almightily peeved if it's not--there's no one here with the right skills to help me make another one! --Sue in Montana, up late listening to Bach's Christmas Oratorio, and waiting for the tea water to boil (Happy Christmas, Everyone!) - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1450 - pregnant? I should note that the term GFD seems to be applied much more broadly these days than I ever intended when I began lecturing on the Gothic fitted style 20+ years ago. I suppose that's unavoidable, but I do want to clarify that the cut of supportive gowns does change over time, and the cut that I'm identified with does not cover all of that larger period. When I lecture on this, I try to make clear that I bookend the construction approach I describe to be from roughly 1350-1450, peaking at around 1400 (and I outline a number of changes within that period, particularly in bust height, skirt fullness, and the degree of curve in the silhouette). ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] re: The other Boleyn girl
(also whispering) Me, either...so you're not alone --Sue, ignoring the enormous pile of packages she needs to wrap - Original Message - From: Dianne Greg Stucki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 2:52 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] re: The other Boleyn girl At 01:19 PM 12/22/2006, you wrote: As for the novel itself, it was disappointing, but the Constant Princess made me nuts. It was so PC! And it had no end-- it ... ...snip... ... person and the narritive. UGH. The only person I have ever seen do that well is Diana Gabaldon. Now that woman can write! Oh, yeah! Preach it, sister! Any news on The Next Book? susan (dons flameproof suit) (whispering)Can't stand Diana Gabaldon either... Dianne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Even Weave Fabric
It sounds like she's asking for fabric that's specially woven for use in Hardanger embroidery (the pairs of threads is a good give-away). Depending on where you are located, you should be able to find it in packets at your local Michael's or JoAnn's. Come to think of it, I think my local JoAnn's may have it by the yard. You might also try googling for Hardanger fabric. --Sue - Original Message - From: Elisabeth Doornink [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Historical Costume' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 2:26 PM Subject: [h-cost] Even Weave Fabric My mother has requested even weave fabric for Hardanger Embroidery (a Norwegian form of drawn thread work and counted thread white work embroidery). I haven’t been able to locate any besides the tremendously overpriced stuff at a local Scandinavian shop. This isn’t the cross stitch stuff, but is woven with a pair of threads, instead of the large basket weave. Does anybody know where I could buy this? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Oh boy oh boy
Which that sound is it making? And Happy Chanukah, by the wayWhen my gift arrives, I'm going to save it until the 21st (Yule). --Sue - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historic Costume List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:28 PM Subject: [h-cost] Oh boy oh boy My holiday exchange gift just arrived. I haven't yet opened it, but I know roughly what it is -- only one thing in the world makes *that* sound when you shake it. Friday is the first night of Chanukah, which is my family's holiday, so I'm going to open it then, so there. I want it right now! --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: striped skirt
Au contraire! There's a huge amount of difference between the two--just ask any skilled spinner, and many weavers and knitters as well. The original processing of the fiber is different, the spinning methods are different, the end results are different. Fineness has little to do with it--I'm actually in the middle of spinning some laceweight singles out of hand-carded targhee, and I'm deliberately spinning them with a woolen technique. --Sue - Original Message - From: monica spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:09 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: striped skirt Yup. Thanks for the post. That is the kind of thing I was remembering. Worsted vs woolen-- pretty funny, since both are wool. Worsted is just a fine spun wool. Monica ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Forgive me, for I have sinned...
Nope. In my defense, I not only have the IRS on my butt about not filing my 2000 tax return, but I just finished collecting 2 years' worth of financial information for a review of the books for my local SCA group. I haven't had time to do much more than blink, feed the cats, and sleep. The thing I'm making for my secret person will be in the mail just as soon as I can possibly get it--and before the 25th, come hell or high water. --Sue, slinking off to go burn some midnight oil working on ??? ;o) - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historic Costume List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: [h-cost] Forgive me, for I have sinned... My h-cost gift exchange package has not yet gone out. It was supposed to be out yesterday. It is all ready and packed and will be in the mail Monday. Bet I'm not the only one. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] not getting mail
I didn't get any all weekend, and then a whole bunch of them all this evening (after 5 p.m.), starting back from Friday morning. Must have been some sort of glitch, although I'd just figured it had been a quiet weekend --Sue - Original Message - From: Katy Bishop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 7:39 AM Subject: [h-cost] not getting mail I am not getting any h-costume mail, got almost none yesterday (just one at 4AM), just testing to see if I get this. Katy ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: striped skirt
Applied? Really? I hadn't ever thought of that as an option--figured it was either woven in, or fabric sewn in strips, like the later one of Lucretia? (green/gold with stripes of varying widths), which is definitely religious. I wonder if it was a regional style or something --Sue, who thinks maybe her memory is out partying somewhere with Bella's, 'cuz it's certainly not here at home where she can use it! - Original Message - From: Bella [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 8:38 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: striped skirt You see what I mean about my memory Sue?! Yes, Beatrice d'Este is a very good example (I think most opinions I've heard say that the stripes are applied in that example, to relate this back to the original question). I have not studied the Manesse Codex and can't speak to that. And yes, she is another Italian example. I'm sure there are more out there, but as I said, anything not 16thc Venetian or Italian is not my forte. :-) Bella - Original Message From: Sue Clemenger [EMAIL PROTECTED] What about the occasional stripes showing up in the Manesse Codex? There's also that picture of Beatrice Sforza, and it's clearly striped (black and white, IIRC). Okay, so she's Italian, but she wasn't Venetian. --Sue - Original Message - From: Bella [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are stripes ever found anywhere outside of Italy? I'm not really the right person to answer that - I'm too focused on Venice and the rest of Italy to take much else in. :-) But I will say that I _cannot remember_ having seen stripes on any non-religious or non-allegorical person in any other SCA region/time frame. That's not saying much though, because my memory doesn't always co-operate. :-) Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] A visit from your English major
Not offended at all! Some of us native English speakers assumed it was a pun--a play on words, exploring the similar spellings/sounds and different meanings between the two words transvestite and travesty. - Original Message - From: Deredere Galbraith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A visit from your English major OOps :-[ English is not my native language. So I hope I didn't offended anyone because it was certainly not my intention. In Dutch it is called a travestiet Didn't know that you write it different in English. :-) Greetings, Deredere Lauren Walker wrote: Deredere Galbraith wrote: One of the mistakes a lot of travesties make is that they use to much makeup. And colors that are too hard. Greetings, Deredere I hope I am not being dense about a deliberate pun, but I think we are talking about transvestites here, not travesties. Though of course camp is itself something of a good-natured sort of travesty. Best, Lauren Lauren M. Walker ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: striped skirt
What about the occasional stripes showing up in the Manesse Codex? There's also that picture of Beatrice Sforza, and it's clearly striped (black and white, IIRC). Okay, so she's Italian, but she wasn't Venetian. --Sue - Original Message - From: Bella [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: striped skirt Are stripes ever found anywhere outside of Italy? I'm not really the right person to answer that - I'm too focused on Venice and the rest of Italy to take much else in. :-) But I will say that I _cannot remember_ having seen stripes on any non-religious or non-allegorical person in any other SCA region/time frame. That's not saying much though, because my memory doesn't always co-operate. :-) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] striped skirt
Boy, those are really narrow stripes, aren't they? I've never seen such a nice, large image of this painting before, so I've never noticed them. I've seen stripes show up occasionally in other Italian dresses in the 16th century, and even earlier, so they're definitely not unknown, and not all are allegorical. The ones I'm able to recall this a.m., though, were all wider, and looked almost pieced (solid areas of contrasting color, and not especially patterned), but then, I'm just an Italian dabbler, and by no means an expert. Style-wise, I couldn't tell you...you might be able to cross-reference the painting with the nationality of the painter and the region in which it was painted, and come up with some similar examples. There was so very much going on in Italy during this time period, politically and economically and culturally, that it's hard to say what was and wasn't foreign, especially since Italy was still a collection of city-states and not a single Italy until much, much later. --Sue - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 8:18 PM Subject: [h-cost] striped skirt _http://www.renaissancewoman.net/realmofvenus/wardrobe/Dance1565.jpg_ (http://www.renaissancewoman.net/realmofvenus/wardrobe/Dance1565.jpg) Just an idle question here -- in the image above, the woman with her back turned to us has a skirt that appears to be striped. Would this be a brocaded or patterned fabric of some sort, or an embellishment like embroidery or couching? Or is it artistic license? I haven't seen a skirt like that on a realistic 16th century person before (only allegorical or foreigners), but then these seem to be Italians, and I don't do Italian (not yet, anyway). Tea Rose ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing?
The fishes did evil grin, but not the clothing afaik! --Sue - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing? In a message dated 12/2/2006 12:22:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: , 1030's era with a fishtail ruffle down the back. And an evil response to what I assume is a typo--did they do fishtails in the 1000s? Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing?
I don't have a dressmaker's dummy, unless it's me g. My costume/clothing project du jour, though, is an interpretation of a 12th? century depiction of Philosophy. She wears a mid-calf outer gown with a fabric patterned in diamond shapes; it has modestly-wide, full-length sleeves, and does not have very full skirts. Trim bands on the sleeve hands and hem (can't tell about the neckline--it's covered by the veil.) Her inner gown has tight, wrinkled sleeves, and a hem long enough to puddle on the floor. From the wrinkles, it's much more full than the outer garment, and probably made of a fabric with a softer hand as well. I'm guessing that the original outer garment was some sort of fancy wool, or perhaps a silk brocade, and of a distinctly heavier weight than the under layer. I found some red/gold upholstery fabric that will work well as the outer garment, although it's not from authentic materials. I'd intended the under layer to be royal blue silk, but the stuff I ordered, although lovely, is a shade or so off from what I'd envisioned. So I'm not sure if I'm going to use the silk anyway, or just some lightweight, royal-blue linen that I have. I'll be wearing a standard, mid-calf, plain linen shift and wool hose with garters underneath. And turnshoes (black). The veil is hemmed, and I intend to play with it this weekend, since I've not worn many of them. I need to get my act together, though--the SCA event at which I want to wear it is in exactly two weeks! Eeek! After the Christmas rush, I'm going to have time to go back to practicing my crochet stitches for my Mrs Weasley cardigan. ;o) I've just *got* to have a HP outfit (suitable robes and all, although I'm far past the age where I'd make a believable Hogwarts student, so instead, I'm a graduate who currently has a shop in Diagon Alley). --Sue - Original Message - From: Cin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-cost [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:58 AM Subject: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing? It's that oh so fashionable time of the year. Holiday parties, gifts, theater season, formal dress of all eras. Maybe even a New Years Eve ensemble What are you working on? --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing?
I've been making those, too, this year. Have a few in a big pile of linen and wool on my kitchen table, as a matter of fact. g Ahh, the advantages of living alone! ;o) --Sue - Original Message - From: Catherine Olanich Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing? Lots and lots of Viking apron dresses. I've made about 5 so far this year. Now to make the tunics and smocks to wear with them. :-) -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity. --Robert Frost ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Madame de Canaples by Jean Clouet--need better image
Now, that is one *seriously* cool portrait, and not one I've seen before! Those undersleeves *rock!* I like the hint of an undergown in the corners of her neckline It'd definitely be a fun outfit to do, if I ever get back to the 16th century --Sue - Original Message - From: E House [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 1:54 PM Subject: [h-cost] Madame de Canaples by Jean Clouet--need better image Does anyone have a larger/higher resolution version of this painting? http://nationalgalleries.org/collections/artist_search.php?objectId=4764 I'm especially interested in the sleeves, but also the neckline and the headwear. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Madame de Canaples by Jean Clouet--need better image
I never quite thought of it that way, but you're right! I just really grooved with the 16th century because it was there that I found that I could make clothing that looked good on me (sort of a major revelation), plus, I got into monochrome embroidery in a very major way. It's what I'm mostly known for in the SCA (at least, I think so! ;o) And of course, when I started down the slippery slope of historical costuming, a couple of decades ago, most of what I could find for good sources on pre 17th-century clothing were are later stuff. Now, though, I've been tempted into earlier paths. I've kind of turned into a pan-european/medieval clothing and fiber geek. Most of what I'm doing is much earlier, and then there's the eventual 14th century wardrobe ;o), and the 16th century Venetian outfit to go with the blackworked camicia Never mind fibery pursuits like wanting to weave my own fabric for historical clothing Geez, I think I need to win the lottery! ;o) --Sue - Original Message - From: E House [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Madame de Canaples by Jean Clouet--need better image - Original Message - From: Sue Clemenger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now, that is one *seriously* cool portrait, and not one I've seen before! Those undersleeves *rock!* I like the hint of an undergown in the corners of her neckline See, this is why I love this particular stretch of time so much--they come up with so many weird variations, before settling on the 'Tudor' style... -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug
Hi, Bjarne! The transparency sounds like something your new linen fabric shares with the silk gauze, but what about linen's tendency to ravel fiercely? I'd imagine you sure could use it for trimmings, but you'd probably have to hem all the bits and such, instead of pinking the edges. Of course, I'm coming from the standpoint of someone who doesn't know much of value about 18th century clothes, but I do recall seeing some pinked stuff in some of my books. So I guess it would depend on two things: 1. What kind of trimmings you're talking about, and 2. Whether or not linen trimmings are authentic for your time period (and whether or not you care, too, come to think of it). In the meantime, I'm sticking my tongue out at you, across all of the continent and an ocean or two, in pure envy. I'd roll over and play dead for linen that fine! --Sue, in Montana, where it's really, really cold and she wishes like the dickens that she could just stay home and be cozy instead of venturing out into sub-zero (farenheit) temps and going to work. - Original Message - From: Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 6:56 AM Subject: [h-cost] linnen kammerdug Hi, Sorry i keep on with this subjekt, i managed to get the fine linnen from my old embroidery shop. The linnen is very very fine and transparent, and i wondered could i use this for trimmings two on gowns, in stead of silk gauge? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] question on velvets
I've got a little, tiny sample of it, but it came as part of a class kit for an online class that Drea taught through Penny's Costume Classroom several years ago It looks like a midpoint between cotton velveteen and cotton upholstery velvet --Sue - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 6:46 AM Subject: [h-cost] question on velvets I vaguely remember somebody ages ago mentioning that they had a supplier of linen velvets (and other materials). Am I right, or am I imagining things, and if so can whoever it was let me know, please? Thanks loads, Debbie. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] kammerdug/linnen
I have the remnants (carefully hoarded) of two bolts of a cotton/linen blend that has a thread count of roughly 60/inch. Better, it's evenweave, same count in both directions. It is, too date (after almost 20 years in the SCA) the finest linen or linen approximation I have personally seen for sale. *sigh* --Sue - Original Message - From: Kimiko Small [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] kammerdug/linnen Hi Bjarne, I have been chatting with others on a different list on fine linen recently, so your news is rather sad to hear. We are searching for that elusive fine linen. However, there is at least one site I know of a draper who sells fine 2.8 oz (~ 79.38 grams) linen. http://wmboothdraper.com/Linen/linens_index.htm 100% white handkerchief linen, 2.8 oz., 35 wide, $14.50/yd. WLG 112 Please specify white (below) or off-white He claims it is some of the finest commercially produced today. At 55 threads to the inch it is also tightly woven. (~ 22 threads per cm, if my math is right.) He also calls it cambric. I don't know how fine your kammerdug was, but does this come close? He does send swatches upon request, as he just sent me 4 of different types of fine linen. The linen to my hand is a bit crisp, and not as soft as other handkerchief weights I have samples of, but it feels smooth. However, I am no expert on linens, so I don't know how fine they can get. I am still learning. It may be worth a look for you. Kimiko Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I just wondered if some of you have had the same experienses. I contakted the danish handicraft guild to enquire to their kammerdug (very fine handkerchief linnen) and was quite surprised to hear from them that this no longer is made. I had baught from them about 10 years ago when i made a christening gown with bobbin lace. And i wanted more for a gentlemans shirt. The only substitute they have is a linnen with 14 threads pr. centimeter, but thats not as fine as the old kammerdug. Blast! Bjarne - Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Sewing speeds was Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt inlateMiddleages???
I didn't have a chance to look at it last night, Michaela, but it is very, very cool! ;o) I don't think I've seen a costume of yours yet that doesn't make my jaw just drop! I don't think you're afraid to try anything! I wouldn't worry about discussing the rest of it overly much--wouldn't be the first time we discussed a recent movie's costumes, but then, since I'm not a movie/theatre/costume fiend, that's the part of this list I find the most enlightening and fascinating. --Sue, in snowy/drippy Montana... - Original Message - From: michaela [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 1:49 AM Subject: Re: Sewing speeds was Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt inlateMiddleages??? http://costumes.glittersweet.com/other/catwoman.htm http://pulpspace.net.nz/joomla/index.php?option=com_exposeItemid=30 Oh my goodness, this looks brilliant! And you wear it well. Thank you:) And to keep it on h-cost topic... the corset is remarkably simialr ot the 1900 corset in Corsets and Crinolines by Waugh. The changes are: shortening the basque/hip panels, cutting it to underbust and (work CF to CB) combining the first and second body panels and the third and fourth. It's the most comfortable corset I have and I suspect it's due to the underbust and the basques. My waist to hip is atm 71cm:98cm and I can get a rather narrow waist so I think the shaping helps with that but without compressing my ribs. Michaela de Bruce http://glittersweet.com (no idea how to work the rest of the costume into h-cost territory;) Unless the 1990s are now retro enough...) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hair
It also works to kill wasps and yellow jackets. Completely OT, I know, but I just *had* to share! I really hate those buggers. I have very slippery, fine hair as well, and decently long (mostly about bra-strap length...it just won't grow much further), but not in any great quantity, alas. I've noticed that I have a LOT more success keeping the stuff braided and quiescent, and the wispy bits controlled, if it's, well, not exactly freshly washed. I suspect that the residual oils remaining even if I rinse, but don't use shampoo, serve much the same function (in this case) as would a styling product. Adds a bit of texture/volume, etc. --Sue - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 7:13 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hair I learned a trick once with hairspray. After you have braided, take hairspray and spray your hand and then smooth it over the braids to hold the stragglers in place without coating the hair. I learned this trick along with using hairspray on water stains on a ceiling tile to seal it before you paint it and spray the edge of satin were you are going to sew a seam to light baste it and keep the satin from slipping. (haven't tried the last one) De -Original Message- I'd be dee-lighted to hear the solution to this problem, since I have it too. My hair is fine but plentiful, and nothing I've tried seems able to hold it in place for more than 10 minutes. Argh! In fact, back in the 80s, my hair wouldn't even hold a perm for more than a week or two. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Blue on Judith
Maybe something of the same chemical reaction as when dyeing with woad or indigo? My book on Red Dyes: Cochineal, Madder and Murex Purple, notes a number of things regarding the use of mollusk secretions as a dye stuff. There are, for instance, several types of mollusks used for this, and they occur in different parts of the world AND produce different shades. There's a bluish one called purpura hyacintha and a more reddish one called purpura blatta or Tyrian purple. According to the book, we don't have a lot of details about the actual process used in making ancient colors like Tyrian purple, although it sounds like it started with the extraction of the snail, removal of the gland in question, and then, any one of a number of possibilities. Too much history and war and destruction of dye works in the last 3000 years, I guess! ;o( Further on in the same section, the author discusses purple dyes that occur in the western hemisphere, and in that area, I found something that sounds much like what you're talking about. In 1909, an anthropologist wrote about mollusk dyeing along the Pacific Coast of Mexico, and mentions: ' When the cotton thread is moistened with the color secretion it first turns green. Then, when it is dried by the rays of the sun, the green turns purple and becomes permanent.' Interestingly, the section closes with a brief discussion on just what we mean when we say purple, since it's really not one single color, but rather an entire ranges of shades. Some of them are virtually blue, others, much more distinctly red. A number of very old texts (such as the Old Testament) make clear distinctions between red-purple and blue-purple. There's even some 2nd century apocrypha describing Mary (mother of Jesus) being specifically honored in being chosen to spin the purple-red and scarlet-red fibers (I assume wool or silk)--I'm assuming as a young woman, because when she returns the finished yarns/threads to the priest, there's a bit of foreshadowing when the priest tells her that she will be blessed among all the people of the world. (The same bit of apocrypha mentions the gold, the white, the flax, the silk, the dark blue, the scarlet red, and the purple red, so something pretty expensive was going on;o) --Sue in Montana p.s. Oh, yeah, the book I mentioned is The Red Dyes: Cochineal, Madder, and Murex Purple, and it's written by Gosta Sandberg. Out of print, I believe, but a fascinating read. - Original Message - From: Kelly Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:59 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Blue on Judith Funny how this comes up today! Last night on 'Naked Archeaologist' the show was about the colour blue in ancient times. How it was produced from the snail. The trick to getting blue from the snail was to expose the dye to sunlight. The ultra violet light produces a very vivid blue, if not exposed the dye will come out purple. I thought it was fasinating. There is also quite a controversy in some sects of the Jewish faith over the use of snails or cuttlefish to produce the dye. The archeaological evidence suggests snails though, due to the amount of snail shells at dye sites. How they suggest the dye is made rotten dried up snail caustic soda boiling water sunlight I am not a dyer, so I don't say this would work, I also don't know the quantities of each. It was interesting to see them dye the fibre though...when it first came out of the dye pot it was yellow, then once rung out of liquid and probably exposed to the air turned blue before their eyes! Discussion? Kelly An insolent reply from a polite person is a bad sign. Hippocrates (c.460-c.370 bc), Greek physician From: Kathy Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] On another list I am on, a topic coming up regarding the relevance the colour blue is to Jewish women came up, relative to the Book of Judith and all the spin off paintings it has created particularly in Italian ren paintings. _ Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more.then map the best route! Check out Live Local today! http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages???
I wasn't including cutting time in that estimate--I was thinking in more industrial/mass quantity terms. If you're doing a whole bunch of that sort of thing all at once, you can get really fast at it, and the type of machine you have can greatly assist in that. The website didn't say anything, that I recall, about types of seams used, or finishings on the insides, outside of the mention of the dress being half-lined. So I more or less assumed that it was serged or something similar. More labor-intensive, detail-oriented choices would of course take more time! And I certainly wouldn't want anyone doing this sort of work to under-pay themselves! It's just that I've only ever done sewing as either a strictly recreational thing, or in an industrial setting, so my costuming experiences may likely differ from other people, who are doing it on a more of a cottage industry scale. --Sue - Original Message - From: Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? You must sew awfully fast. I've been sewing most all my life and I can see that taking me a couple days, including cutting of course, so that would bring my price, just for labor, up to $400.I don' think the asking price is unreasonable. My garments are quite well made, though, and fully lined if necessary. Sylrog On Nov 12, 2006, at 10:51 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: With a serger? Couple of hours, tops. Of course, I could build a complete tent in a couple of hours, when I did it for a living. Now I deal with maps and data bases and school buses, thank goodness, and get to do my sewing for fun. --Sue in Montana, not Susan in TN ;o) - Original Message - From: Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Really? How long do you estimate it would take you to make such a gown? On Nov 12, 2006, at 8:27 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: Quoting Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at those prices. Who Knows! But I could sure sell them a lot cheaper than that! susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages???
Answered privately. --Sue (from Montana) - Original Message - From: Voncile W. Dudley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 7:23 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? WOW ! !! I use a regular machine and it takes me a while to finish a beautiful garment of this nature. The gown can be constructed using less expensive but good quality fabric. It would take that long to just lay and cut the pattern (or least for me) but then I have Rheumatoid Arthritis and take frequent breaks but still if I worked straight through it would take much longer than 2 hours. That is fantastic sewing. I love to sew the Ren garb but I also provide garments for today's fashion depending on the customer. Anyway, not all of us who sew for others provide [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just my 2 cents worth. Lady Von Sue Clemenger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With a serger? Couple of hours, tops. Of course, I could build a complete tent in a couple of hours, when I did it for a living. Now I deal with maps and data bases and school buses, thank goodness, and get to do my sewing for fun. --Sue in Montana, not Susan in TN ;o) - Original Message - From: Sylvia Rognstad To: Historical Costume Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Really? How long do you estimate it would take you to make such a gown? On Nov 12, 2006, at 8:27 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: Quoting Sylvia Rognstad : I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at those prices. Who Knows! But I could sure sell them a lot cheaper than that! susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages???
Absolutely! I may have been making incorrect assumptions about the construction of this dress, but the website wasn't exactly forthcoming with details! ;o) I've not really ever bought historically-themed clothing or costumes, as I usually make my own, but I have definitely purchased my share of off-the-rack clothing over the years, and have looked at some items that friends have purchased. There's an awfully wide range of construction options out there, and certainly, an item that was more carefully constructed would be worthy of a higher asking price. I just don't assume the reverse, especially given that the website didn't provide many details, which I've seen a number of others do, especially when they're aiming at a reenactor's market, in which authentic construction is a definite selling point for some folks. --Sue - Original Message - From: Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? I sew for a living (among other things) and I don't like to rush myself too much. I certainly don't sew fast by commercial industrial standards. That would be too stressful and not at all enjoyable.I was thinking of the dress being lined, faced, etc, when I said it would probably take me a couple days. And I don't sew and serge at the same time. I prefer to sew my seams and then serge them, in case I have to take something out. I realize sewing and serging in one step cuts out a lot of extra time. SYlrog On Nov 13, 2006, at 7:39 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: I wasn't including cutting time in that estimate--I was thinking in more industrial/mass quantity terms. If you're doing a whole bunch of that sort of thing all at once, you can get really fast at it, and the type of machine you have can greatly assist in that. The website didn't say anything, that I recall, about types of seams used, or finishings on the insides, outside of the mention of the dress being half-lined. So I more or less assumed that it was serged or something similar. More labor-intensive, detail-oriented choices would of course take more time! And I certainly wouldn't want anyone doing this sort of work to under-pay themselves! It's just that I've only ever done sewing as either a strictly recreational thing, or in an industrial setting, so my costuming experiences may likely differ from other people, who are doing it on a more of a cottage industry scale. --Sue - Original Message - From: Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? You must sew awfully fast. I've been sewing most all my life and I can see that taking me a couple days, including cutting of course, so that would bring my price, just for labor, up to $400.I don' think the asking price is unreasonable. My garments are quite well made, though, and fully lined if necessary. Sylrog On Nov 12, 2006, at 10:51 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: With a serger? Couple of hours, tops. Of course, I could build a complete tent in a couple of hours, when I did it for a living. Now I deal with maps and data bases and school buses, thank goodness, and get to do my sewing for fun. --Sue in Montana, not Susan in TN ;o) - Original Message - From: Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Really? How long do you estimate it would take you to make such a gown? On Nov 12, 2006, at 8:27 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: Quoting Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at those prices. Who Knows! But I could sure sell them a lot cheaper than that! susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h
Re: [h-cost] Questionable color
This isn't my time frame, either, but what does pop up into my brain, for some reason, is shark skin suits. Could the connotation be similar for porpoise skin? --Sue - Original Message - From: Kimiko Small [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Questionable color Hi Penny, To me, it sounds like the texture of the silk has the appearance of Porpoise skin. I am not reading a color, but then, I don't know much about that time frame for garments. Kimiko Penny Ladnier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am working on a 1916 designers' fashion catalog. I am not sure if something is a color or not. Please read the following ladies' dress description and let me know if you think porpoise is a color or what. The color dove is not capitalized when used as a color name. But the word Porpoise is. DESCRIPTION: Dove colored gabardine, with trimmings of navy blue. Porpoise skin silk. Vest and collar of white organdy. Smoke pearl buttons and buckle. Coat of navy blue Porpoise skin silk. Collar and cuffs of dove gabardine. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com - Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] gores in skirt in late Middle ages???
Gores themselves? Certainly, although not necessarily placed in the manner depicted. Gores made of a contrasting fabric? Not that I know of. I've seen this particular fashion error show up at an occasional SCA event, but not very often. I'm not sure of its point of origin, but I'm pretty darned sure that it wasn't in the middle ages! ;o) --Sue - Original Message - From: Zuzana Kraemerova [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 8:33 AM Subject: [h-cost] gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? By the way, looking at the chimera costumes' web page, is there any historical evidence of this kind of dress: http://chimera-costumes.co.uk/slideshows/view.php?c=43 ? I mean the gores in the skirt (or lower part of the dress) - does anybody know? Zuzana - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages???
Interesting, that you liked it. It made my eyes bleed, and the authenticity-nut part of me back up hissing and spitting. I was also pretty taken aback by the price (starting at 350 pounds??? Wowser!). I guess our respective mileages are varying greatly on this one, huh? ;oD --sue in montana - Original Message - From: Branwyn Maura [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:46 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Gores in various configurations were used to widen skirts from the early middle ages on (it's an early step in the evolution of tailoring), but the use of a contrast gore for stylish effect is not really documentable for this period (I think there is some use of this technique in the 19th century, but I'm not sure). It looks really nifty, however. Makes me wish it *was* documentable... Marg. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages???
Personally, I wouldn't touch it if it were mailed to me, free. And sure not for several hundred dollars. I've seen some seriously tacky [EMAIL PROTECTED] aimed at the non-sewing SCA crowd (and, I assume at other non-sewing reenactors/hobbyists of relatively same time frame and required authenticity level), and that particular gown's right in there with the please, god, make it go away stuff IMHO, of course. --Sue, needing to go fondle some of her wool flannels just to take the taint away ;o) - Original Message - From: Elizabeth Walpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Well, except that in reality what costs $1 in the USA costs £1 in the UK. So from the UK seller's point of view it would be a more accurate reflection of their how much they are earning (in terms of paying the bills, keeping food on the table etc.) if you just change the dollar symbol to a pounds symbol. Now change your estimate to $350 (or even better look at more local websites) and see if it's still worth it. Elizabeth Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/amiperiodornot/ - Original Message - From: Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at those prices. On Nov 12, 2006, at 7:28 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: Quoting Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED]: How much is 350 pounds? $700 USD -- approximately susan - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages???
With a serger? Couple of hours, tops. Of course, I could build a complete tent in a couple of hours, when I did it for a living. Now I deal with maps and data bases and school buses, thank goodness, and get to do my sewing for fun. --Sue in Montana, not Susan in TN ;o) - Original Message - From: Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: gores in skirt in late Middle ages??? Really? How long do you estimate it would take you to make such a gown? On Nov 12, 2006, at 8:27 PM, Susan B. Farmer wrote: Quoting Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I should go into business. Wonder how many this company sells at those prices. Who Knows! But I could sure sell them a lot cheaper than that! susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Happy Halloween!
Oh, Elizabeth! That is so very funny! ;oD Especially since I'm sort of built like a very large, very short Valkerie anyway. Dear god, but I'm laughing at the idea of my chest in a brass bra set up! I'll have to remember it for next year! This year, though, I don't have time to come up with anything genuinely schlocky and costumey, or good but costumey so I'm either going in SCA garb, or I'm wearing my weekday clothes, and going as a Muggle. --Sue - Original Message - From: Elizabeth Walpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Happy Halloween! snip --Sue, who's going to work on Tuesday as a 10th century Norse woman (okay...I'm lazy this year...it's SCA garb g) ah but it's Halloween, you need to add a Wagnerian style 'Viking' horned helmet (preferably with long blonde braids attached) and call yourself Brunhilda, for Halloween you've got to be a modern stereotype, not an accurate historical 'everyman' (or 'everywoman' in this case), you can dress as a famous historical figure (Marie Antoinette, Cleopatra, Napoleon, Henry VIII etc) but if you're an average woman of year X in true Halloween tradition it should be a stereotype like a 'wench' or a 'flapper' or a 'Viking' (in the style of a Wagnerian opera). Halloween is about pop-culture stereotypes, not historical accuracy :-D I won't be dressing up for Halloween as I'll be at home all day preparing for an exam on Friday so I suppose I can't really talk. Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Happy Halloween!
Cute bunny! And *fierce* pumpkin face! ;oD You have a good one, too! --Sue, who's going to work on Tuesday as a 10th century Norse woman (okay...I'm lazy this year...it's SCA garb g) - Original Message - From: Deredere Galbraith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 1:40 PM Subject: [h-cost] Happy Halloween! I wish you all a happy and creative Halloween! http://www.deredere.dds.nl/HappyHalloween.jpg Greetings, Deredere ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Holiday Gift Exchange
Me, too? I'll send it tonight, in case I'm squeeking under the wire --Sue - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Holiday Gift Exchange [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dawn-- I loved participating last year and would like to do so this year. Missed the deadline because I haven't had time to write up a little who I am paragraphis it really too late? --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer Ruth, I haven't made assignments yet, so if you send me your info I can add you to the list. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] white embroidery
What I'd heard/read, was that the strains of flax that produced those ultra-fine threads went extinct about the time of WWI. Maybe it's demand, I don't know. Technology may also be a factor, although I'd think that if it were just a matter of hand-spun vs machine-spun, someone would have tried it by hand by now. I'm learning to spin linen, but I'm lightyears away from being that skilled! --Sue in Montana - Original Message - From: Caryn Sobel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] white embroidery It's the *fineness* of the linen threads used then, that can't be duplicated now. In linen. Please pardon my ignorance, but why can't we have the same fineness now? Is it a difference in the spinning techniques, or the variety of the plant itself? Or a lack of demand for finer thread? Thanks! Caryn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] white embroidery
You can certainly get linen lace, and linen threads. It's the *fineness* of the linen threads used then, that can't be duplicated now. In linen. So you've either got to use a thicker linen, or use a fine thread, but in a different fiber/material. Even when using another plant-based fiber (such as the cotton about which Bjarne spoke), the finished product isn't going to be quite the same. *Especially* if you're comparing using something like a cotton thread (cotton has really, really short fibers) with something like a hand-spun, wet-spun linen thread made from line flax (which has fibers many times longer than cotton thread). The two fibers even come from different parts of their respective plants, require different amounts of twist when spinning, different techniques, etc. You can see the difference, somewhat, if you think of the feel of modern cotton fabric and a modern linen fabric of the same weight, even though the linen fabric most likely was *not* woven out of thread made from line flax. --Sue, apparently channeling the spinning part of herself this morning - Original Message - From: Sharon at Collierfam.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Historical Costume' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 8:06 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] white embroidery Just out of curiosity, why can't you get flax lace anymore? Is the thread not available, or is no one making it? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 1:56 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] white embroidery Dear Ruth, Oh i must say that i really dont know. But i would say that it was not the case. My guess is they just picked up a lace for the pillow after it was embroidered. But you must remember they had many different design laces to choose from, in Denmark f. instance, several thousind lacemakers worked in the south of Jutland near Tonder. The lace has yellowed a little by the age, i think it would have ben more white, when new. I have planned to ask at the lace list, wich kind of lace it is, as i really dont have any expertise with 18th century lace. The feel of that linnen lace, makes me cry, because we cant have that kind of bobbin lace thread in flax anymore. The cotton i use, is much more collapsable and needs a little starch, if i want to have that feeling to it. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] white embroidery The embroidery is exquisite, and I'm thrilled by the way the lace perfectly complements the embroidered motifs. Do you know, would the designer of the embroidery have purposely set out to achieve this effect? --that is, did the selection of the lace precede the designing of the pillowcase? I know you couldn't say for sure of course! but was such a practice customary? --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Oct 3, 2006, at 10:22 AM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Hi, As i promissed yesterday, i wanted to let you se the wonderfull 18th century pillow case i got as a gift: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/pillowcase.htm It needs washing, but ill waite a little with this. Thoaght about using destilled water, and soap flakes. How about ironing after the wash, shouldnt i use a thick towel on the front of the embroidery and iron on the back? As it is the finest linnen you can imagine, i suppose i should be carefull with the ironing... I think i want to frame the pillow case, and hang it where no sun will harm it. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] was: recent history now: 80's looks
Paisley mini dresses, sure, but not Madonna or Flashdance or Cyndi! --Sue - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 6:29 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] was: recent history now: 80's looks Ummm... that is also a late '60s, early '70s look. De -Original Message- from day-glo paisley mini dresses, pleather mini dresses white go-go boots to Madonna Flashdance Cyndi Lauper looks. Entirely too frightening to think I used to wear those types of things! Lisa W. in MT ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa
Did they say how much of her dress was covered? I just assumed the upper chest (which is sometimes covered by the veils/whatever about which you and I are talking), and I'm pretty sure that the dress styles included ones with a pretty high neckline. Of course, it's been a while since I looked at them, so I may be wrong. I thought it worth pursuing as an alternative explanation is all. ;o) --Sue - Original Message - From: Audrey Bergeron-Morin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa Actually, it sounds like they're talking about a distinct style that I've seen in lots of ItalianRen paintings, although usually a little more obviously in view. They look (to my fading memory) like an early cross between a fichu and a partlet --Sue Oh, THOSE. But if it were that, it wouldn't cover her dress, only the open neckline. Too few explanations and too much guessing... ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Missing posts
Not that I'm aware of (speaking strictly for myself at this point). I've had that problem with other lists in the past, thoughIf it's really wide-spread, it can definitely be a hang-up or glitch on the list server, but most of the time, it seems to be issues with a person's ISP good luck --sue - Original Message - From: Kate M Bunting [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 2:05 AM Subject: [h-cost] Missing posts There's definitely something peculiar going on. As I complained last week, I'm seeing replies to posts but never getting the original message. I've just read a post from Sharon C. quoting Lyonet's question about A Christmas Carol (as well as seeing some other replies to it yesterday), but did not receive Lyonet's post. Some posts from last week, to which I've seen replies, never reached me at all. Anyone else having this experience? Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa
Actually, it sounds like they're talking about a distinct style that I've seen in lots of ItalianRen paintings, although usually a little more obviously in view. They look (to my fading memory) like an early cross between a fichu and a partlet --Sue - Original Message - From: Audrey Bergeron-Morin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mona Lisa If they're describing it as a gauzy, nearly transparent layer over her dress then I doubt it was worn for modesty. Didn't Queen Elizabeth wear such a gauzy overdress on some of her portraits? She sure didn't give birth... And I'm pretty sure I've seen other portraits with this too... ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies
IMNSHO, the entire movie was having a bad day. Llamas, for cris' sake...the animals are native to South America, not the Mediterranean! --sue - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bad historical costume movies Troy was not great [one of my fave designers though, Bob Ringwood. He designed Dune. But maybe he was having a bad day on Troy] Still there's a consistency to the look. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Deadwood
Mine, either (well, at least not the one I knew...I think that man was *born* in a 3-piece suit!) I haven't seen any of these Deadwood episodes, so I'm not exactly sure which phrases y'all are trying to skate genteelly around, but it occurs to me that maybe, in what seems to have been a concerted effort for nitty-gritty realism, that the writers/people in charge went with words that would convey to a modern audience what the swear words from back then actually would have been? Almost like a translation? --Sue, taking a break from garden-digging and bulb planting... - Original Message - From: Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Nor my grandfather :) (I NEVER heard either of them ever say a single swear word, let alone the two 'popular' ones in this show), but you've got to remember this town was founded by a lot of people who were NOT the quality of folk who were raised in the best of surroundings and mostly uneducated and to them it was just what they grew up with A site of possible interest: http://www.wordorigins.org There are some things I surely don't want to be to accurate about in my re-enacting! kelly grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't have an objection to foul language, it has it's place, it was the word they were using I had a problem with...I highly doubt certian words were used that frequently at that time! I could be wrong, but I doubt my grandfather would have used some of those words at any point in his life. Kelly - Original Message - From: Sylvia Rognstad To: Historical Costume Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood - Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Deadwood
I can see how that would be jarring to a person's sensibilities, but then, I haven't seen any of the shows. I have had a similar experience with other films, though! ;o) --Sue - Original Message - From: Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Except that the rest of the language is quite old fashioned. I like that they went for that kind of realistic speech, and it seems a bit anachronistic that they combine that with all the profanity, unless people of that ilk really tended to use it that much back then. On Sep 24, 2006, at 3:55 PM, Sue Clemenger wrote: Mine, either (well, at least not the one I knew...I think that man was *born* in a 3-piece suit!) I haven't seen any of these Deadwood episodes, so I'm not exactly sure which phrases y'all are trying to skate genteelly around, but it occurs to me that maybe, in what seems to have been a concerted effort for nitty-gritty realism, that the writers/people in charge went with words that would convey to a modern audience what the swear words from back then actually would have been? Almost like a translation? --Sue, taking a break from garden-digging and bulb planting... - Original Message - From: Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood Nor my grandfather :) (I NEVER heard either of them ever say a single swear word, let alone the two 'popular' ones in this show), but you've got to remember this town was founded by a lot of people who were NOT the quality of folk who were raised in the best of surroundings and mostly uneducated and to them it was just what they grew up with A site of possible interest: http://www.wordorigins.org There are some things I surely don't want to be to accurate about in my re-enacting! kelly grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't have an objection to foul language, it has it's place, it was the word they were using I had a problem with...I highly doubt certian words were used that frequently at that time! I could be wrong, but I doubt my grandfather would have used some of those words at any point in his life. Kelly - Original Message - From: Sylvia Rognstad To: Historical Costume Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Deadwood - Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande?
I'm sorry, but I don't know enough about 15th century fashion to be able to help much with anything specific. One thing I did notice, however (and this is pre-breakfast tea, so take it for what it's worth...g). The painting is from a specific area of the continent (Netherlands, yes?). What about looking at head/hat styles of the same time period, but from other countries like England or France or Italy or Germany? Time permitting, of course, but there might be something in another, regional style that would work for you. Having said that, I'm now going to start envying you to bits, over the sheer idea of going to York (where I've been only once...*sniff*), let alone having an event in a medieval building! --Sue in Montana - Original Message - From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 7:15 AM Subject: [h-cost] Alternative headdress for 1460's houppelande? I am going to an event in a medieval building in York at the end of this month, and will be wearing a gown similar in style to this one, only in a plain fabric. I have a beautiful horned headdress which fits perfectly, and looks good, again based on the painting, but is a pain in the b*tt to eat in as the veil keeps deciding it's a part of the meal, and gets in my way. http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/08/euwl/ho_1975.1.110.htm Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I could wear instead? A coif is unsuitable as I will be with other people, not in a domestic situation. My hair is very short and needs concealing. Bear in mind please I have two costumes for other people to make in that two weeks, and therefor have zero time to fiddle and make anything elaborate for myself. Oh, and hennins of any shape and size are not me! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hourly Wages
Also depends on cost of materials, I'd think. Good quality fabrics, beads, trims could get really expensive, really fast. I strongly suspect that the outfit is more along the lines of a couture-level costume, rather than a cheesy, cotton-broadcloth Elizabethan equivalent of a prom dress from Hellmart.g If the person who made that 2K outfit were giving him/herself a base wage of, say, $25/hour, which is probably pretty low for highly skilled custom sewing (I'm basing this purely on what my old employer from a couple of decades ago used as a base to figure costs for the custom sewing jobs I did), that would only be about 80 hours of labor for the entire outfit, assuming that the raw materials' costs were NOT included in the 2K. I've spent that much time just on beading some things, never mind the 100s of hours one can devote to embroidering something. I'll have something like 15 or 16 hundred hours into the embroidered stripes on my Venetian camicia by the time I'm done. --Sue in Montana, enjoying her rare, Labor Day vacation ;o) - Original Message - From: MaggiRos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 11:37 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Hourly Wages Clients in my experience want to know in advance how much they'll be paying, so I set a per-hour rate in my head but quote a flat amount depending on the garment and level of ornamentation--with adjustments for anticipated aggravation, of course. :-) That way I don't have to keep careful watch on the clock, or remember that I work more slowly as the day goes on. Not that I do this for a living, but that's the method I developed when I was sewing for other people. Now it's just a recommendation. $2,000 seems quite high, but jewelling and any handwork does take a lot of time. (That's why I learned to sew, in the end.) I guess it depends on what your market will bear. MaggiRos --- Sharon at Collierfam.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A friend of mine had an Elizabethan court dress and hat made, with removable sleeves and separate underskirt. It was beaded and had a good amount of trim. Quite lovely. I believe she paid about $2,000.00 US. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Is this wool flannel appropriate for any costuming uses?
20% Nylon? Well, crap I was excited, too, but hadn't had time yet to check it out. Bummer. --Sue, looking for some wool for an early-Medieval clothing item (gardecorps) - Original Message - From: Linda Rice [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Historical Costume' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 6:55 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Is this wool flannel appropriate for any costuming uses? I saw this yesterday morning as well. And I was pretty darned excited, until I saw the fiber content. It's 20% nylon, which is too much for me. Also, I'm not all that thrilled with the colors. It all depends on your needs, for ACW/Victorian it might be just fine. For Early Period, it's not what I'm looking for. It is an excellent price, though. ::Linda:: -Original Message- On Behalf Of Susan Data-Samtak Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:44 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is this wool flannel appropriate for any costuming uses? Saw this on fabric.com website and thought I would alert folks to it and ask if it was worthy of use in Period Attire. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Is this wool flannel appropriate for any costuming uses?
I've got some lovely, lovely flannel, purchased earlier this summer from Pastiche, but was looking for a few more yards for a 13th century project, and then some wool that's in between flannel and melton, weight-wise. I want it for an outer garment (the gardecorps), but I don't want it so stiff and heavy that it's like wearing armor. I'm built like a tank as it is g, so I need something that drapes a bit more than the meltons I've met. --Sue - Original Message - From: Catherine Olanich Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Is this wool flannel appropriate for any costuming uses? On Wednesday 30 August 2006 10:55 am, Joan Jurancich wrote: At 07:08 AM 8/30/2006, you wrote: 20% Nylon? Well, crap I was excited, too, but hadn't had time yet to check it out. Bummer. --Sue, looking for some wool for an early-Medieval clothing item (gardecorps) Fooey! I didn't look at the individual fabric listings, so I missed the nylon content. But they do have some 100% wool gabardine which might be nice, it's a bit lighter weight, though. http://www.fabric.com/apparel-fashion-fabric-wool-fabric-wool-gabardine.asp I don't believe in wool gabardine for medieval clothing; it looks way too shiny, even if it is 100% wool. Fabric.com does have nice flannels from time to time, though the color choice is often too restricted for my taste. The selection varies a lot; they often do have 100% wool melton and flannel, just not now (apparently). -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity. --Robert Frost ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Glove booklett published
I got mine. It looks very thorough! ;o) I was showing it to another (SCA) friend, and she was drooling at your biblio! Well done! --Sue - Original Message - From: Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:44 PM Subject: [h-cost] Glove booklett published After nearly 20 years of off and on working on it I got my book published. :) The Compleat Anachronist Spring 2006 Making Elizabethan Gloves CA0131 http://tinyurl.com/q4lh7 It says Spring but it actually got published this month. It arrived in most mail boxes this weekend. :) HL Chiara ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
