Re: [h-cost] Butterick 5832
Not necessarilly. I have seen front side, no seams and darts. -Original Message- I think it also needs another seam in the front, doesn´t it? In my memory, most bodices have a front side seam, similar to the one in the back of the Butterick pattern. Am I wrong? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Butterick 5832
I don't know if this will help... Nineteenth Century Fashion in Detail by Lucy Johnston, P.50 shows a 1827-29 Evening dress with similar skirt fullness as the Butterick's. The Evening dress shape is the same as the drawing of the pattern and not the cone shape in the picture. Through the book it appears that as you get into the 1838 - 40 the waistline starts to change to a V. On p.192 The Day dress 1837 has a natural waistline and not so wide puff sleeves. You could lengthen the gathered section down and add a 2 cuff to come close to the fullness of the sleeves of the Day dress in the book. The day dress does not have side back seams and appears to be closed by hooks eyes in the back. There is a possibility that the Butterick model is not wearing the appropriate undergarments. And yes the neckline dips a bit low but I think that the neckline is suppose to be a bit more off the shoulders which is perhaps why it looks to deep of a v. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Medieval brides wore red.
The only time I have heard that brides in Medieval times wore red (in a vague broad brush way) was a Dear Abby letter that said the fashion designer Edith Head had told the person who wrote the letter to Abby. There was something about in Classical Roman times the bride wore orange/red veils that covered the head and body, prior to the medieval statement. De -Original Message- I just read the comment that medieval brides wore red in a book that does not attribute any source for the statement but has a bibliography and index. The book makes me itchy because it is such a hybrid of fact and fiction. Anyway, my question is this: is that statement based on fact? If so, what are the sources for this? Was it true for all cultures? Only Italy or ... ? It's an intriguing thing to say, and I would love, please, to learn more about bride colors in the Middle Ages, or, rather, specifically for me the late eleventh and twelfth centuries in southern Italy, if there is such specific information. Thanks, all. Nancy ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hair and Reenacting
Just a note with the color red, most of us are used to brunettes, black, blonds, and tone down reds as the norm and the only shades of hair in period. Though your style is modern for female please do not assume that your red is modern color as well (even if it is dyed). I have met redheads that have what folks would call a modern color but it was natural color. One person I worked with had bright orange hair with a streak of black. As you can guess the black was the dyed part and she had to draw in eyebrows. Now if the red is a shade of pink then I would say how dark or hot pink as I have seen natural strawberry blonds have the tone of pink to the hair but this may have been due to swimming in a pool. Short hair: Depending on the region/country and class you have a variety of headcovering. There are some head coverings that cross borders and classes but not all. Are you looking for lower class, middle class, upper class? English, French, Italian, German.?? Late German 1400s, the women had extentions and padding in their hair. D ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Stupid question
I have a pinking blade but rarely use it. De -Original Message Am I the only one who has a pinking blade for my rotary cutter? Beats the H out of pinking shears. Kim ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] I forgot to ask, re Tudor Tailor
On thier website it says contact on the left. You could email them and ask. I haven't tried the patterns. De -Original Message- Does anyone know if there are discussion lists or forums devoted to the books? I tried looking on yahoo groups but did not find one, though someone had mentioned it existed. They also have a Facebook page, but it does not seem to function as a discussion site, though I am very backwards about Facebook, and can't always find out the info I want on people's Facebook pages. Second question about the tudor tailor people. I noticed on their website they have a bunch of patterns available. Has anyone used them, are they basically blown up versions of what is in the books, are they worth getting if one has all three books? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] article on bras - a second one pictured
The first picture is the one they call the longline bra as there is on the left side fabric with lace holes going down past the picture. The second is not a tie behind the neck bra, it's just how they laid it. This is the breastbag style and they say that there was a back strap. Perhaps the style was akin to the sports bra Y back De -Original Message- More on medieval lingerie: http://www.historyextra.com/lingerie This picture also shows that this bra/undergarment tied behind the neck. Nancy ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Dyed cloth from the Iron Age
Would love a source if you have one. I have someone that has drummed into folks that patterned cloth only goes as far back as the Middle Ages. The Iron Age article will dumbstrike her and further back will blow her away. :) -Original Message- Actually, patterned cloth is much older than the Iron-Age. Joan Jurancich joa...@surewest.net ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Off Topic: Removing ink from cotton blend
As was previously said, alcohol. You might try Carbona ink remover which you can find at Jo Ann's and some WalMarts. De -Original Message- Does anyone have advice as to what to do to remove the ink blots? I am so upset that my new summer clothes are so messed up. Penny Ladnier, owner ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Research request: surviving dagged textiles
Small note, this is a gofalon and not a flag. This banner would have been hung indoors or used in a parade. Most gofalons were lined or same design on the other side depending on it's use. De -Original Message- I found this one a while ago: http://web.ceu.hu/medstud/manual/SRM/pic/46banner.jpg It´s the first link on this page: http://www.larsdatter.com/banners.htm And the dags appear to be lined and not hemmed or left raw, which I find quite sensible on a flag. Hanna ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ear-coverings and wimples
Small note: the cone shape was area specific, not across Europe and the British Isles. I understand your point though. -Original Message- Why wear tall cone shaped hats in the 1400's? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ear-coverings and wimples
Who is the artist and period? De -Original Message- I was particularly interested to find a painting of a veiled Virgin Mary where her veil is transparent enough that you can see her ears: http://paternosters.blogspot.com/2007/12/blessed-christmas.html ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Marginally costume, but
I know of someone making roses for a dress out of them. This one is kool. http://www.etsy.com/listing/70220199/the-princess-rock-zipper-bracelet?ref=p r_shop De -Original Message- a great way to use zipper tape! http://www.etsy.com/listing/29084353/gold-stream-zipper-necklace http://www.etsy.com/listing/74268072/the-evolution-zipper-necklace http://www.etsy.com/listing/40041845/the-tangled-metal-zipper-necklace http://www.etsy.com/listing/40172392/madame-butterfly-zipper-necklace http://www.etsy.com/listing/32942385/the-black-swan-zipper-neclace Fran Lavolta Press Books on making historic clothing www.lavoltapress.com www.facebook.com/LavoltaPress ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Beading supplies
Fran, What kind of edging were you thinking of? On the edge or near the edge, straight or fancy? Most glass beads are washable but not all. You will have some problems with the rochelle or metallic lined beads as the center lining over time can wash out. With beads on hanks that feel gritty or feel dirty you might want to wash some of beads as there are some that have just a coating for color and not the glass itself. I once bought a hank of clear beads with what appeared to be a red hole. The seller sold it as a specialty bead. They had also restrung the beads because the previous thread had broken. The previous thread was red and the holes of the beads had dye pigments. To say the least the first time I washed the veil I ended up with clear beads and a pink edge. There is a specific thread for beading that is designed to take the wear and tear of the beads. Currently black and white are the most common thread colors but companies are slowly coming out with other colors. Cotton threads, quilting threads, basic sewing threads are not recommended (learned that lesson on a beaded smocked top). You might as well get the loose seed beads as the thread on 99% of hanks are just to keep the beads together. (Though at times you can find a better deal with the hanks as most hanks are equal to 2 1/2 loose bead tubes) It can be time consuming but it is recommended that the thread you use for the beading work be no more then 12 in length, basically stitch down in small sections so that if for some reason the thread breaks you don't loose a large part of the beadwork. Hope this helps, De -Original Message- I've often seen beads on 1920s dresses machine sewn on. When the thread pulls through thin fabric, leaving a string of beads, I couch them down over the thread because it's easiest. I wanted these beads for an entirely different project, to add to the edges of brocade ribbon. Maybe I can just buy beaded ribbon! Fran Lavolta Press ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Sherlock Holmes A Game of Shadows
I found the MTV review site which pulls various reviews and the reviews are mixed. The one you presented is there, another says something to the effect that if you liked the first you will like the second. One trashes Robert Downey's acting and another Ritches work. So reviews are not always reliable as they are personal opinions which may or may not match your own taste. I plan to go see it this weekend. The costumes will probably be the same level of authenticity as the last movie which I am not an expert on that period but from a novice opinion, looks good though but there seemed to be a few anomalies. De -Original Message- I was really looking forward to it till I saw this review. Has anyone here seen it, and how are the costumes? http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/12/16/DDEI1MCACK.DTL Fran ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Question on Court Fashion in 1500
The Saxon gown by RH is Kass' interpretation of the construction. (just a note) Just in case you haven't seen these. Max,Bi and Mary http://www.flickr.com/photos/1way/712112063/ Bi /Germanic style http://www.lessing-photo.com/p3/401302/40130245.jpg http://www.lessing-photo.com/p3/401302/40130267.jpg http://www.lessing-photo.com/p3/401302/40130257.jpg Bi (early years)Italian style http://www.lessing-photo.com/p3/400807/40080703.jpg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Renaissance dance costumes
Sorry been sick so I'll be jumping around. RH has men's 1490 short doublet and hosen (NOT TIGHTS) The hosen do not fit that tight. Also, the older the male the less likely he will just be wearing the short doublet. RH509 Florentine (as oppose to Venetian) This is the basic gown worn by all classes. You will find front, side, or side back openings which will give you some variety there. There are sleeve variations, some tie on, others partially sewn in and others sewn in. Upper sleeve seam is usually sewn closed but sometimes it is open and tied.. Lots of sleeve variations. Is there more to the theme then Italian? How period to fantasy? Are you wanting nobility or middle class/merchants? The first can be bedecked in rich fabrics and patterns, the latter in colors and stripes. Red is a favorite color of most Italian city state folks. Middle and lower class did not only wear earth tones. You can get grand with simple as much as you can with glitz. MMiscellania are not my favorite patterns. They short cut and sometimes make thing more complicated then needs be. RH patterns are not for the novice sewer but a good start. Florentine, you are looking at a simple fitted bodice with the waistline about 1/2 above the waist. Gathered or pleated skirt consisting of rectangles. The sleeves are fitted and usually has a back seam but under arms seams were done. The bodice is usually lined and most likely has an inner lining. Skirts were lined but you don't have too. Note: the chemise/camicia is not floor length. There are paintings that look like chemises that are near floor length and sometimes of color but that is under debate as being an actual gown and not a chemise. Currently, drawstrings are very rare. Must be made of cotton for dancers, no polyester as they need some breathability in their costume especially if the outer layers are not cotton. Sleeve should be long not wide, usually to the wearer's finger tips for the puff in the back seam area. The puff and slash in the sleeves should be part of the inner lining instead of the camicia, especially for dancing so that the puffs stay in place. Sometimes you will see in paintings of the period another kirtle over the basic, this is usually of a fancier material. The over gown (giornea) is worn over the basic or the basic and secondary kirtle. Unless the dances are slow and formal, like a pavan(?sp)the outer gown is not an option or if for a slight costume change for a slow dance then it would work. There are several styles of giornea and only the upper to noble class wore these. There is a theory that these were equal to a coat/cloak. Pearls, bezants, beads, faceted beads, faceted jewels, cabochons were worn by upper and noble classes. The faceting were simple cut. (Fimo is helpful) Venetian (who were anti Florentine) women had the gown's waistline under the bust. If you are interested in this style Realm of Venus is a good site. So some sights to glean from for Florentine http://festiveattyre.com/research/earlyflor/portfolio.html Various Italian artists (1490s closer to the bottom) http://www.artcyclopedia.com/history/early-renaissance.html continuing here http://www.artcyclopedia.com/history/high-renaissance.html Diary http://festiveattyre.com/gallery/ghirlandaio/index.html http://festiveattyre.com/gallery/giornea/index.html Hope this helps for getting started, De -Original Message- Dear H-cost list I have to make 20 costumes for an upcoming Italian renaissance performance and have been thinking about using http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/products/rh509-1470s-1500-florentine-wo mans-outfit-1#. Can you think of different ways we can decorate these gowns so they don't all look the same? Plus they need to look grand because we will be on stage under lights. I am still working out what to dress the men in, and fear they will not want to wear short doublets and tights :(( *Aylwen* ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Renaissance dance costumes
Forgot, JoAnn's and other quilting store have printed Renaissance fabric. A bit pricey but you may get sales and discounts. Also, JoAnn's stores have a clearance area and sometimes you find material there. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1880s hairstyles
1880s pics http://zingpat.com/images/1880s-hairstyle.jpg http://www.worthpoint.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/dress5.jpg http://wrvmuseum.org/journal/images/tintype04.jpg http://www.milkywayjewels.com/vintagephotos/Victorian-Stag-M-Brooch.jpg This one appears to use the back hair for bangs. http://www.lphouse.com/jpg9/1882a.jpg The bangs were usually curled. This was achieved (if you didn't have naturally curly hair) with rag strips. http://www.demodecouture.com/hair/hair_second.html Hope this helps, De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1975-76 - Prom dresses/formal gowns
Saturday night fever (1977) and Gunne Sax. The Mel Torme pastel tux. http://www.promtacular.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/tangiblehope-1976.jpg http://blog.repeatpossessions.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Prom-386x550.jp g http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5042/5352276759_4e566fa0d3.jpg http://www.stillthelovely.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/02-carrie.jpg 1975 http://juliesschoolofsewing.com/Julie%20Senior%20Prom%201975%20(2).JPG `75-`76 patterns http://static.artfire.com/admin/product_images/thumbs/--3--1594_product_ 77809424_thumb_large.jpg http://images.wikia.com/vintagepatterns/images/3/3a/Simplicity_6940_image.jp g http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41c8iPKOBcL.jpg Gunne Sax 1970 https://www.tangerineboutique.com/item_images/5130milkmaidgunnesaxdet.jpg Mine was a sky blue sort of Greek/roman influenced design. polyester, spagetti straps that tied at the shoulders while the sleeves draped off the shoulders and were quarter length and puffy. De -Original Message- Does anyone have a good resource of photos of dress styles popular at the time? I have a vague recollection of what my cousins wore to their graduations, but need the visual reminders - I've managed to block most of the fashions of the 70's out of my mind. :0) Sheridan P ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Trim-Fabric having 65 percent off sale
Bad Fran, now I have to clean the drool of my key board. De -Original Message- http://www.trimfabric.com/ Fran ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Pink?
One would think that since the flower existed before the edge that the edge would have been named after the flower. :\ De -Original Message- Taking a trip through the OED It seems that the origins of the words pink for the flower and pinking for the jagged edge are uncertain. Their supposition is the flower was named for the fabric treatment. --Charlene On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Bambi TBNL hippy_dippy_dan...@yahoo.com wrote: this is a two part question . first is the flower originally called the pink, what we , today, call a carnation or the origin of that flower? if it is, is the regular jagged edge, part of the origin of the term pinking?. Im trying to use this for a masked ball i plan to attend soon where the theme is...come as your favorite pun. t i would appreciate and sources if ya happen to have them as i am totally lost. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Pink?
Perhap the edge reminded them of Zeus' lightning bolts. De -Original Message- the flower is also called Dianthus. BTW... Dianthus means flower of Zeus in Greek. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Pockets...
I wonder if pockets were not earlier as you can find on some 14th century outer garments with slits on the sides, sometimes embroidered. I was once told that they were for warming the hands but because of the cuffs that extended on some of the garments I am inclined to believe that the slits were for access to something under the outer garment. De -Original Message- Well, they were in use in the 16th century, I can't remember the exact reference off the top of my head but there is a court mention of Anne Boleyn using pockets but it is the only one I know of, of women in England using them that early. Might have been part of her trial? Sorry, my memory is going. Cheers, Danielle ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movie Costume Question: McGonagall's Yule Ensemble
This isn't the Yule gown but the color is similar. De -Original Message- How about this - Good large picture, especially fabric and sleeve cuff - http://www.cinematicwallpaper.com/movie-pictures/Harry_Potter_7_wallpaper/Ha rry_Potter7_mcgonagall Best wishes Viv ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movie Costume Question: McGonagall's Yule Ensemble
Your right it does, shoulder points and twin tail collar. Difference is the whole gown is simple brocade, nothing fancy like the pintucking on the Yule gown. De -Original Message- And it looks like the same pattern. -Original Message- This isn't the Yule gown but the color is similar. De -Original Message- How about this - Good large picture, especially fabric and sleeve cuff - http://www.cinematicwallpaper.com/movie-pictures/Harry_Potter_7_wallpaper/Ha rry_Potter7_mcgonagall Best wishes Viv ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Miss Universe Top Ten Evening Gowns
Once upon a time those in Texas found a recipe that got their woman chosen. One ingredient was the rhinestone bodice. So, I think folks just keep on going with what worked the last time with a little variation. Note: Those do not look like what I saw for evening wear. They appear to be what won them the chance to be in San Paulo but I could be wrong. De -Original Message- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-cviXg7-UE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-cviXg7-UEfeature=related feature=related When are designers going to design something new? I remember when I was excited to see the new looks in these contests. Penny Ladnier, owner ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Update on split drawers (fascinating, I know...)
I have seen a pair in one of the online museum sites. As 1800s is not my focus I do not have it saved somewhere. De -Original Message- Yes, we found another pair of split drawers in the the vast Reed Homestead (Townsend Historical Society) collection. They definitely belonged to an adult, and like the child-sized pair... well worn and heavily mended. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need information on sacque garments (NOT the dress)
Not the same. They are are not undergarments, they worn over the chemise/shift and petticoat. De -Original Message- I don't offhand see any mention of what these sacques are made of. Are they white linen? If so, as a medievalist, of course my reflex would be to simply consider these as shirts, smocks or chemises -- the nearly universal innermost layer of medieval/renaissance underwear, and hence present in large quantities in most wardrobes. But I don't know enough about post-renaissance clothing to guess how late the fashion lasted for this type of undergarment. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] split drawers
-Original Message- At 12:59 PM 9/14/2011, you wrote: Victorian women NEEDED split drawers. They wore a long chemise over the top of the drawers, and a corset laced up tightly on top of that, so the only way to drop a penny was to have the drawers split. You just couldn't get at them to pull them down from the waist. Kim That's not necessarily so. (Gentlemen, please delete this message, only the ladies should read it.) When in my 1840s outfit for Sutter's Fort, I simply do not wear any bifurcated garments. With 5 layers (shift, 3 petticoats, and dress) between me and the outside world (and no inclination to do cartwheels), my modesty is safe. I find split drawers to be very uncomfortable as they never fit properly and caused me to get badly chaffed. So all I need to do is pick up all the layers and take care of business. Of course, later in the 19th century fashions were different, but until the cage crinoline, drawers were not necessary for modesty. Joan Jurancich joa...@surewest.net I think she was saying accessability and not modesty. Your drawers is sometime caught up in the corset making it difficut to drop the drawers. And like corsets, if made right should fit comfortably. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] split drawers
You can find drawers in the late 1500s and forward. For the ladies with meat on their thighs it is a chaffing matter. For most it is underwear. De -Original Message- You'll find drawers starting to creep into women's clothing starting in the 1840's and 50's. They really really started to become common when women started to wear cage crinolines in the later 1850's. With crinoline there were suddenly not as many layers right next to the body (nothing but the chemise and a single petticoat) and women probably started wearing them for modesty and comfort. By the time the crinoline fell from fashion they had become typical and women just continued to wear them. Maggie Halberg -Original Message- From: WorkroomButtons.com westvillagedrap...@yahoo.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:36 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] split drawers Okay, dumb question, but... why did they need drawers at all? Chemise, layers of petticoats, and long skirts -- everything totally obscured, so why bother with drawers? Dede O'Hair --- On Wed, 9/14/11, Kim Baird kba...@cableone.net wrote: Victorian women NEEDED split drawers. They wore a long chemise over the top of the drawers, and a corset laced up tightly on top of that, so the only way to drop a penny was to have the drawers split. You just couldn't get at them to pull them down from the waist. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movie Costume Question: McGonagall's Yule Ensemble
Good attempt. Color and the sleeves were not quite on the mark but still good. The under gown's sleeve on the movie outfit appears to be a tight cothardie sleeve with lots of buttons running up the sleeve. De -Original Message- http://public.fotki.com/Kait/other_costuming/professor_mcgonagal-1/profmyule ball_cropped.html#media here is a series of photographs detailing the reconstruction of a copy of the yule gown. I don't think they got the color just right, but there is at least one fairly detailed photo of the actual gown and several comments on how they made the sleeves and collar Denise Iowa ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Miss Universe 2011 national costumes
So the new shoe fashion is kamikaze platforms? They are already tall why add the height? Definitely a carnival or Vegas feel. A lot of retro hair. What's with the white? Albania - simple, yet elegant. Angola - very theatrical. Argentina - ?? prom? Aruba, Bahamas, Brazil, Cayman Islands, St. Lucia, Trinidad Tobago, Turks Caicos, Uruguay - carnival. Australia - rendition of the Scarlet curtain gown but with granny's patchwork quilt or rag rug. Belgium - ?prom? or maybe a play on Belgium lace? Bolivia - definitely carnival and a good one. Botswana - looks like folkwear but the shovel is a bit much. British Virgin Islands - ribbon trade Canada - That is sooo wrong. Headdress is worn by the Assiniboine (women of the nation wear it if they are chief) The bodice is hard to tell what it is suppose to be but the tongue and teeth look like the bear (makes her look like she has a poochy tummy) The skirt is suppose to be a teepee. The crossed arms is a Hollywood stereotype. Even if she is of Indigenous decent the costume is still all around tacky. Chile - statement more then folkwear but nice creative design. China - good folkwear. Colombia - I've seen this from an old Hollywood movie. Nice design. Costa Rica - except for the platforms, really nice design. Croatia - What?? The hair says sock hop but the dress says be my valentine Curacao - carnival and not quite right. Cyprus - Nice modern take on the folkwear. Czech Republic - Beam me up Scotty? Denmark - The skirt looks crooked because of the way she is posed. They should have put more into it as it looks to much like a wedding dress for a themed wedding. To my understanding 1700s reenactments are popular in Denmark so I can see why the dress style. Dominican republic, Great Britain, Sweden, U.S. Virgin Islands, Ukraine - ?? Ecuador - Impressive. carnival style but natural tones. Egypt - Hollywood strikes again but I can think of worse Hollywood costumes to mimic. Should have gone for color instead of the white. El Salvador - I'm not sure what to say on this. Estonia - Off the rack. nice that she is wearing flats but it just doesn't make sense with the outfit. Finland - Evening dress. possibly association to long nights and winters? France - High School play of Marie Annetoinette? Come on folks, this is Miss Universe! There should be better quality then this even for a folk costume. Germany - Not a nice modern take of folkwear. Looks like something from Frederick's of Hollywood cataloged. Ghana - Nice but could pass for evening wear. Greece - lovely but with the do she looks like an actress from some of those old Italian movies. Guam - is cute. Guatemala - Very good take on folkwear. Guyana - carnivalish but looks to be a modern take on folkwear. Haiti - nice modern take on folkwear. Honduras - Looks like something from the Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition. Hungary - Interesting modern take on folkwear. Though the hat makes it look like she has cat ears. :) Indonesia - traditional. Ireland - modern Celtic goddess look? Theatrical. My first thought was , cool use of cds. It's nice but like many of the costumes here, it leaves a person wondering what it represents. Israel - prom? Italy - with all their fashion sense they came up with this? Looks like lingerie. Really? they took the colors of their flag and made a red dress, added a green fan with white and a bit of white on the dress with pearls...REALLY? Jamaica, Venezuela, Puerto Rico - again, carnival. Japan - Japanese Anima(sp?) Kazakhstan - what is with the wedding dresses for folkwear? Nice modern take though. Georgia, Korea, Kosovo, Lebanon, Malaysia, Nigeria, New Zealand, Panama, Peru, Portugal, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam - interesting and impressive modern take on folkwear. Mauritius - lace and feathers Mexico - rummage sale at the costume shop. Actually it is one of the better attempts at symbols to represent the country. Montenegro - looks like haute couture fashion. Netherlands - What were they thinking or looking at when they can up with this? At least they didn't go the Dutch route as that would have excluded other regions. Nicaragua - looks like someone just threw what ever was on hand together. You know that whoever designed it did not consider that Miss Dorn did not have the neck muscles for the headdress. Paraguay - a Vegas showgirl costume gone wrong, way wrong. I did not know that Paraguay had peacocks. Philippines - Looks like one can not make up their mind. Looks like they had two different costumes and they lost the lower have for the white lacey top and the upper piece to the gold skirt. Poland - has a folk feel to it but still looks like prom or bridal. Romania - Vampire Queen? Russia - modern bride? interesting modern take on folkwear. Serbia - really? Slovak Republic - Not a good take of folkwear. Slovenia - Emmy dress. South Africa - should have left off the black and pink stuff. Spain - haute couture or stylized flamenco dress. The
Re: [h-cost] Miss Universe 2011 national costumes
The hat I have seen in a museum, usually of woven grasses. She appears to be wearing traditional tribal attire. De -Original Message- Poor Miss Nigeria. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] New Pattern Company?
First time I heard of them but their 2521 Edwardian gown looks just like a Big 3 costume pattern that showed up after the Titanic movie became a hit. I have the pattern somewhere. After looking more at the site, you seem to be right about the Hollywood inspired. The Masquerade Ball Gown looks like something from a Streisand movie. Red temptress gown is from Moulin Rouge. So far, Moulin Rouge, Titanic and possibly My Fair Lady. Not bad prices if you get patterns that don't require a degree. Even better if a novice can use them. De -Original Message- Does anyone know anything about historicalclothingpatterns.com? There's no information about the creator(s) of these patterns, no background, credentials, experience, or location. There's no mailing address or phone number, and the email says it's for sales queries only. They seem to be specializing in movie costume knock-offs. Margo ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Miss Universe costumes 2011
Miss Australia's costume on youtube. explains a wee bit. Something about the beach. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjn2Nigs4V0feature=related De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] h-costume Digest, Vol 10, Issue 244
OMG! The Romanian costume is Dracula themed. The close up shows a skeletal hand with red nails on one of her shoulders and the other a bat. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] help identifying picture
The chemise/camicia/hemd looks like it could pass for 1500s except for the eyelet embroidery. http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/CARIANISeduction.JPG http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/VenetianLovers.JPG http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/NewUnknownWoman.jpg extant http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/workbox/extcam5.htm De -Original Message- Cool feature, I was going to guess something a little later than Ingres or around the time of Tissot..The chemise she's wearing looked very mid-19th century. Katy big version: http://www.lineadombra.it/sanmarino/images/headers/header_informazioni.jpg -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] help identifying picture
The style of painting looks to be early 1900s, definitely modern. The clothing style looks to be a blend of German and Italian. The hat is German in style. The hair would be in a caul with this type of hat. The camicia/hemd style is seen both in Germany and Northern Italy in the early Ren. The gown looks N. Italian but it could pass for German. The sleeves look more German then NI. because of the cuff being longer. The outfit might be based off of a painting of someone from the border region of Italy and German. The Illuminated music looks close to Germanic style then Italian but my knowledge in that area is limit to what I have seen when looking for an easy style to recreate. The more I review my Italian paintings the more the gown appears to be more northern Europe in style. De My two cents. -Original Message- Has anybody ever seen this before? http://images.cheezburger.com/imagestore/2010/9/9/330d9013-0b7f-468b-9c3a-b2 2044bb4e02.jpg It seems to me it's clearly a Victorian or later representation of a Renaissance style, either Italian or German. But I've never seen it before and have no idea where it came from. Can anyone help? Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Azalea Trail Maids: Antebellum Costumes
That's alright. It helps me not feel so much like a dunce when I do it. :) -Original Message- I am sorry De for repeating your links. Penny Ladnier, owner ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] one of a kind wedding dress
Sadly, this is an Algonquin (specifically Wappanoag) word that means matron, that a young Iroquoian woman decided was an English bastardization of an Iroquois word that mean vagina. -Original Message- squaw ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Azalea Trail Maids: Antebellum Costumes
Sounds like someone watching to many Old Westerns. Blue for the dark blue jeans and the rust colored gingham. De -Original Message- Our local square dance festival has a theme every year, and this year it is Rollin' Down the River, so the committee are going overboard with those made-up ante-bellum styles, but, get this, in rust and jewel blue, a weird medium blue shade--neither being a color I particularly associate with the 1850s. Well, they aren't costume historians, either. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Azalea Trail Maids: Antebellum Costumes
Oh surely they can see that one has rows and the other scallops. :)(that's spelled s-a-r-c-a-s-m) De -Original Message- Completely different, eh? Not to the casual observer! Denise ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Azalea Trail Maids: Antebellum Costumes
The sad thing is that there is so much that one can do in a design with ruffles and none of the gowns seem to try that route. it's either rows or scallops. :P I wonder if any of them ever considered pleating the ruffle (probably because it's more difficult then gathering). If I was to be a ATM and I had a choice to look like the others or really be different within the rules I would go for the latter. Though they really should consider something besides polyester, like cotton, especially for the drawers. De -Original Message- I now understand the usefulness of a ruffle foot for a sewing machine... ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Robyn, lacing question
Are there any docs. to cotehardies being laced in the back? I very vaguely remember something to a yes and I think I may have seen pics. but my ADD isn't letting my brain find it on my mental shelf. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Shoe glue
I would recommend the shoe repair offered first since the boots are 50 years old and you don't have that much experience with shoe repair. If budget doesn't allow it, then the Shoe Goo which can be found at most Wal-Marts or the like stores. I have not used the Barge glue as I have not seen it and several shoe repair shops recommended the shoe goo which I have had good results. Note: first time use of the shoe goo can be a bit messy. :) De -Original Message- I have a gorgeous pair of child's cowboy boots that are at least 50 years old, but the upper is separating from the sole at the heel. A good 3 inches is no longer attached. A shoemaker is not within a manageable distance for me. Would I be successful tackling this myself? If so, what sort of glue do I need to look for? Thanks for any advice. Siobhan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Men's Outfits in Brueghel
-Original Message- I have one of her patterns, http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/products/rh606-early-tudor-common-mans- outfit-1, which I am planning on using to make the hosen, but as far as I can tell,it looks like it needs to be tied to stay up. I was hoping for tips on getting them to stay up without being tied. I mean, the three pictures I showed, they COULD NOT be tied, I mean, on two of them, you can see the ties, and they are definitly NOT TIED. Also hubby does have the uhmbeer belly such that he needs a belt on his pants, but the guys in the paintings don't exactly look slim. snip) jordana Your first pic. 1570 http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/26.72.23#ixzz1KelyC2bv The man on the left appears to have a belt. Hosen were known at times to be tied to the shirt. most cases that I have seen, the tie that is at the waist band in front acts like a front button on regular pants, plus the codpiece ties may act as an additional form of support. This has a somewhat zoomable image of the series. http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159397000 here you can see in the first print that the somewhat dressed up is Venetian pants, which would have in some cases a belt. Margo Anderson has a pattern http://www.margospatterns.com/ Details of Bruegel's harvesters 1565 http://tinyurl.com/3ng9gy6 Here is more of Bruegel's works that can be zoomable http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/b/bruegel/pieter_e/index.html Pick the category. Click on the little picture and a new screen pops up click on the 200% for a close up. Though the lower class folks tend to be behind the times somewhat, your *Peasants Making Merry outside a Tavern 'The Swan'* c. 1630 http://www.wga.hu/art/b/bruegel/pieter_y/peasants.jpg is 30 years past SCAs cut off date. The further away from the cut off date the more you need to question the look. SCA cut off date is December 31, 1600. Note that no one should give you grief if you show up to an event in post SCA period garb. In the above pic. the man on the left with the woman and talking to the woman in pink, if you note the gray vest appears to have the hosen tied to it in the back. Same with the man in yellow in the wedding pic. 1607 http://www.wga.hu/art/b/bruegel/pieter_y/wedding.jpg Found it http://www.reddawn.net/costume/peasant.htm I knew I had seen a research site. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Men's Outfits in Brueghel
Would these help http://tinyurl.com/3j2vzgh http://tinyurl.com/3uh7h7p De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] a costumer's term question
Cabbage is old term used in Elizabethan era. Modern is scrap. -Original Message- Why are they scraps called cabbage? That's new to me but then I don't know all the terms for costuming or garb technology. Sincerely, Rebecca Rautine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Patterns of time Ageless Patterns trim instructions
I purchased #1726,1894 outing/traveling outfit (skirt and jacket) with the intention of seeing what the pattern pieces look like and try to find something from the big 3 that comes closest and then adapt because I am a size 24-26. #1726 gives a diagram for the pattern pieces but there are pieces that are listed that are a bit confusing. pieces #5-#7 are said to be for a belt, there is no belt. Nos# 18 (belt pocket), 17 (skirt waistband), and 16 (front facing) are not in the diagram. I have yet to look at the pattern. She does say in About the Patterns that she has made them. And yes, there is almost didilly squat for instructions. She says that with the pattern pieces she added seam allowance except where indicated. I am glad that she put this together but wish that it was more. So with the trim pattern, if someone has the time, there is a book to be made on step by step instructions on how to make the trim. Not only for theatre and reinactors but with the increase in popularity with steampuck. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Patterns of time Ageless Patterns trim instructions
Today I received a pattern from Patterns of Time, this is the second time I received the pattern folded and stuffed in an envelope. They also, at least on the clothing patterns place their labels on top of print or design, instead of off to the side. I know they are capable of doing this as the Ageless Patterns of trim has the PT labels in at the bottom of the page and not at the top covering the design. With most of my patterns that are not the big 3 I place instructions in clear sleeves and put is all together in a three ring binder because unlike the big 3 I have to do extra work to get the pattern. Now I have to go and place the instructions between two heavy books and a flat surface. I wish I had read this before I ordered the trim Pamphlets http://www.gbacg.org/great-pattern-review/ageless.html They have pictures and a paragraph making an attempt at telling you what is done. No step by step instructions with diagrams. #1240, trim #5 appears to have piping but it is not in the instructions, instead they say the lining comes over the edge and hems on the outside. I thought I was getting a good deal at $3 ea. I probably would have ordered these patterns anyway but it would have been nice to know what I was really getting. Would have ordered the gown anyway as I would have to adjust to my size and adapt it. The trim on the other hand, I can borrow from a friend books with clearer instructions. De taking toe of the soap box ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 15th c sewing technique
-Original Message- he kirtle evidence sounds interesting. Do you remember which list you saw it on? (I'd love to check back to find the source.) -- Cathy Raymond ca...@thyrsus.com This would have been about 6-8 years ago. I am not sure which list. I was going to say 12th century yahoo list but I was only on that list for two years. Might have been the SCA garb list. I remember that the kirtle had portions missing but it did have some of the buttons still attached which is why I remember it. The buttons were not sewn onto the front of the kirtle fabric but along the edge. I usually gather info for myself, I usually don't think to record it as I think that most here already know most of the things I come across. It is very rare that I know of something that others do not. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 15th c sewing technique
-Original Message- On 02/12/2011 02:34 PM, Beteena Paradise wrote: It isn't exactly what she said as she insisted that it had to be 1/4 inch cotton twill tape as that is what was used then, but at least there is support for silk binding. Thank you so much! I greatly doubt it was cotton twill tape, and I don't recall seeing any period binding of those dimensions. Still, the more evidence you get the better you can make up your mind as to what *you* think is appropriate. -- Cathy Raymond On another list I remember someone showing an extent kirtle with twill weave binding along the front opening and neckline which was stitched to the back side of the fabric. It appeared to be card woven onto the edge but may have been stitched on (pic. was a wee bit grainy). I believe the woman said that the threads were of wool and linen (warp was one and the other was the weft). So, twill tape is possibly period or a good substitute for the woven on band. That it HAS to be 1/4 is debatable as the extent example was closer to 1/2 and I do not think that there would have been a sumptuary laws that dictated the width of twill tape. For it being made of cotton is highly doubtful for most of Europe but possible in the Mediterranean region, either region it would have been rare and costly. As for binding and edge you are more likely to have in the European and Mediterranean regions linen, wool, hemp, nettle and silk before you would see a cotton bound edge. Egypt on the other h! and would most likely have the cotton binding. Is it possible that there was a miscommunication somewhere? De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Robe or train???
If a ceremonial robe is long that it trails on the ground behind the person, the robe is said to have a train. That which attach and detach from the waistline and trails the ground behind the gown is a train. A long veil that trails past the gown is said to have a train. Same with a gown's skirt that trails behind. What I have seen over the years is that a train is used to describe the length of the back section of a garment, including robes that usually trail on the floor. Another name for ceremonial robe is robe of state. Queen Elizabeth's coronation robe had a 18ft train. http://www.fashion-era.com/images/SocialHistory/coro500jun.jpg another name for a ceremonial robe is mantle. In your case you have a mantle or robe that has a train. :) De -Original Message- I feel so silly asking this question. I am working on photos of coronation costume photos for Mardi Gras. I am looking for the correct term to use for the detachable train (?) worn by the king and queen. You may view the questionable piece here: http://www.costumegallery.com/MardiGras/2010/Mobile/Museum/Queen1/P1100236me d.jpg I have checked my costume dictionaries and the train definition seems to fit better than robe. I have heard it called both ways. What the correct word to use? Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery Websites ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Looking for pattern, 12th century
Country? Age of child? under 5 seem to have worn knee length T-tunics and under 2 seem to not have underwear. You could briefly join the 12th century yahoo group to ask questions 12thcenturygarb-subscr...@yahoogroups.com De -Original Message- Dear List I have friend looking for a 12th Century style baby girls dress pattern in a size 1. Is anyone able to help me find something for her? Bye for now, Aylwen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Queen Maud's wardrobe
Found the black and white beaded on a list that shows the original Worth's design. http://thedreamstress.com/2010/02/rate-the-dress-queen-maud-of-norway-in-wor th/ De -Original Message- Had to see what you all were talking about: Maybe this was obvious but I didn't know who Maud was or what the SS meant. http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/1333_styleandsplendour/wardrobe/war drobe1.html http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/1333_styleandsplendour/wardrobe/wa rdrobe1.htmlWow - what a figure that woman had! Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Queen Maud's wardrobe
Pictures of Maud http://www.staylace.com/gallery/gallery05/index_maud.html youtube of pics, gowns and info http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr4EBismOLg De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] eek, quick opinion pls...
It would seem that was an oversight. All of the women's patterns are TV, I guess she doesn't do men's. :) De -Original Message- Just fyi, the TV patterns listed on that link are Laughing Moon patterns. K. From: otsisto otsi...@socket.net To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Thu, December 16, 2010 7:37:51 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] eek, quick opinion pls... http://trulyvictorian.com/catalog/menscat.html Truly Victorian I have heard the patterns are good. Limited on men's patterns. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] eek, quick opinion pls...
http://trulyvictorian.com/catalog/menscat.html Truly Victorian I have heard the patterns are good. Limited on men's patterns. I just got their 1873 polonaise. De -Original Message- Don't know if I actually have time to still get this by Xmas, BUT! Himself re-iterated interest in a Steampunk/Victorian outfit again last night, so... Anybody know anything about any of these particular patterns or vendors... Laughing Moon #109, men's frock coats vest Folkwear #222, set of vests Men's Garments 1830-1900: A Guide to Pattern Cutting and Tailoring, by RI Davis (book) Old West Men's Clothing Patterns, by Wingeo, Pattern #W324 (frock coat), #W325 (Dress Coat) We have good basic sewing skills, some theatrical costuming experience, but no tailoring... Greatly appreciated, any responses today, Thursday... Chimene ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] steampunk adventures sot RE: eek, quick opinion pls...
If you are not familiar with steampunk, then you might want to watch The Adventures of the League of STEAM (Supernatural and Troublesome Ectoplasmic Apparition Management) on youtube http://tinyurl.com/39dqbef Costume and equipment ideas De Been toying with ideas for Archon. Something steampunkish is 3rd on the list. 1930ish Queen of diamonds is 2nd. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT: Christmas Decorations
Cutwork and the technique used on the doilies is used on clothing from Bishop's garments to aprons and is pretty old technique. I have seen Christmas decorations become part of a costume and parts of a costume become X-mas decorations. And probably, especially if it was originally a skirt and technically the tree is wearing it (garland and ornaments are accessories). :) De -Original Message- I think the textile techniques are interesting, but would prefer that the discussions relate back to historic costume. There are certainly a lot of things to discuss regarding the winter holidays — special outfits that people had for the season, and also fancy dress or theatrical items worn for seasonal plays, parades, tableaux and the like. Borderline question: do tree skirts count as costume? ;-) -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT: Christmas Decorations
-Original Message- OFF TOPIC This might not be historic or vintage needlework but I found a beautiful cut-work embroidered Christmas runner last summer in an antique store. The embroidery is machine made. http://www.costumegallery.com/runner.jpg http://www.costumegallery.com/runner.jpg De: I remember this type of cutwork/embroidery with the color was popular in the 30s and 40s. Another technique was with sheer cotton and a piece of colored fabric was sewn to the back to give a frosted look to the design and then the cutwork to accent. P:The CWdecorations are made of all natural items. I am returning to CW Dec. 11 to see if they have new decorations and photograph them. Today I am making my variation of this wreath: http://www.costumegallery.com/Williamsburg/2009/1020053.htm http://www.costumegallery.com/Williamsburg/2009/1020053.htm . De: What are the berries? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] making a c. 1500 Venetian Men's shirt
Will this help? Durer/self-portraits http://tinyurl.com/2dlrjx3 http://tinyurl.com/2f37qck Also: large pic. detail of your pic. http://tinyurl.com/383wj6d more pics. from the period http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/men/VenMenGall1.htm De -Original Message- I am trying to recreate a young Venetian man's costume of roughly 1495-1500. I am looking at a lot of Carpaccio paintings -- I especially like Healing of the Possessed Man at the Rialto Bridge (http://www.vittorecarpaccio.org/The-Healing-of-the-Madman-c.-1496-large.htm l) because I like the detail of the shirts and zupons worn by the gondoliers. This detail from The Arrival of the English Ambassadors is useful for seeing noblemen, who have on (roughly) the same shirt and zupon layer, and then another layer over that. (http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/Vittore-Carpaccio/The-Arrival-Of-The-English -Ambassadors,-Detail,-From-The-St.-Ursula-Cycle,-1498-%28detail%29.html). I've made a first pass at recreating the zupon, and am satisfied with it. But I can't get to contemplating the outer layer, because I can't even figure out that shirt. It has got to be huge, to have so much fabric puffing out at the neck and sleeves. Stella Mary Newton, in The Dress of the Venetians 1495-1525, describes a publication from 1506 forbidding “shirts taking six braza of linen each to make (1 braza = c. 1 yd)” which was issued because this “evil and damnable custom” had been adopted by the young men in the city. So it was puffy, and took a lot of linen. But how was it shaped? Was all the fullness in the front, given that the gondoliers clothes look trim and fitted on the backs? What was the neckline like? How did it slip over the head and close, when the only traces in portraiture I can find of the neck show a single unbroken, unfolded edge of white? (See, for example, this portait, http://www.vittorecarpaccio.org/Portrait-of-an-Unknown-Man-with-Red-Beret-14 90-93.html, or some by Giovanni Bellini.) I have a guess that those many tiny folds may have been secured by rows of smocking stitches at the collar, but I have no evidence to support this theory. Has anyone attempted to recreate this? Know of other sources I should peruse? (The images I cited are available larger and better at Web Gallery of Art -- I just can't link to them there.) Many thanks, Challe ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] check/plaid RE: Opinions on Manesse Codex diagonal stripes
Someone was questioning plaid or check, though not a garment, it shows that such a pattern was created in fabric. http://tinyurl.com/2uqfbsl De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] plaid/check RE: ] Opinions on Manesse Codex diagonal stripes
Closer picture shows it to be a plaid. http://tinyurl.com/3325vl4 De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Opinions on Manesse Codex diagonal stripes
if it is allegorical or religious then the artist made up the garment. My feeling is that if this were true then all medieval and renaissance artists were fashion designers. The Manesse drawings are simplistic and the artist does not have a full grasp of fabric pattern draping. The patterns can be woven, which is what the guy on the throne most likely has. Both horizontal, diagonal,..etc. can be woven or pieced. There is a slim possibility of bias but you need to take into account of the fabric width of that period and region. To my understanding, fabric width very rarely made it past 45. Though I can not locate the info anymore, I do recall printed fabric from Byzantium at around this period so there is a slim chance (very slim) of it being printed. De -Original Message- With the caveats that artistic representations aren't always intended to represent actual clothing construction, and that representations of clothing decoration are sometimes intended to convey symbolism rather than fabric structures, and that there are multiple ways to create any particular decorative effect in fabric ... What are people's thoughts on the garments depicted in the early 14th c. Manesse Codex that have diagonal striped designs? Woven as diagonal stripes? Print? Woven as straight-grain stripes and cut on the bias? Symbolic interpretation of armorial designs not intending to represent actual garments? Some other option? How is a given hypothesis affected by other stripe-like designs in the manuscript? (Primarily horizontal stripes, but also chevron designs.) (snip) I'm contemplating the plausibility of the bias cut hypothesis, but I'm failing to convince myself, given that the reasoning that would support it would also conclude that the diagonal-stripe and horizontal-stripe garments in the manuscript represent two entirely different ways of cutting garments that are otherwise identical in depiction. Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
Perhaps you can get swashes for Dharma http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1667492-AA.shtml De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
Pics: Cotton bubble gauze (or as i call it pain in the arse to sew fabric) http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3479-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric_cotton.html http://tinyurl.com/2eoarrh Cotton voile http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3501-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric_cotton.html http://tinyurl.com/23awt58 Silky cotton voile http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/4521523-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric_cotton.ht ml http://tinyurl.com/28zqcvo ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
-Original Message- Butterick 4486 looks a LOT like his shirt, De: the lacing and the ruffles of this pattern is not pre1600s. Here are men's Italian extant shirts http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/workbox/extmencam.htm Likewise, Simplicity 3758 is probably only somewhat close to the 1800s and not pre-1600. De: This is correct. This would be something close to what I have come to know as the poet's shirt. Margo Anderson's Elizabethan gentleman's garments http://www.margospatterns.com/Products/ElizGntlmnWrdb.html Scroll down to Two styles of shirts and click to get an idea of shirt. Reconstructiong History http://tinyurl.com/33sxw43 So what would be a good shirt pattern, commercial or drafted by me, for a shirt that will appeal to a teenager in the way that the commercial patterns mentioned above would, but would still be a little bit closer to pre-1600? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
-Original Message- But the shirt that he already has is 100% cotton - I know - not period - but very comfy and again, he likes it. De: Going by memory, I believe that someone on the Italian list that i am on said that in the late 1500s you do find some shirts and shifts made of cotton in the Italian regions. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT RE: Semi Off Topic
This is good to know as my Shire has a large pavilion tent refered to as the barracks and some have been wondering How it would work for the kids at camping events. We do have curtains to divide the interior but it sounds as if, especially with special needs children, that curtains may not help. Just a note, I think there is a yahoo group site that deals with SCA items for sale, if you don't get any takers here perhaps you could try there. If I still camped I would be interested but health has put a hold on such activity. Thank you and good fortune, De -Original Message- Lots of combined factors, for one thing we find it is better to have them buddy up in two man tents instead of putting them all together in one tent. Our troop has a fair percentage of kids with special needs and too many together can lead to problems. They have a tendency to pick on each other. It is also difficult for the kids to put up without a couple of adults. We had most of the older, stronger boys age out, so we are a smaller troop and don't need as much space. Rebecca Burch Center Valley Farm Duncan Falls, Ohio, USA ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] OT RE: Semi Off Topic
Just curious, how is it not meeting the troops needs? De -Original Message- I know that many of you travel to SCA and other re-enactment events and thought you might be interested in the pavilion we are selling on E-Bay. About 6 years ago we bought a Panther Primitive, 16 x 16, Regent style tent for our Scout Troop. We have found that it really doesn't meet the Troop needs and would like to sell it so we can afford something more useful. It is in good condition, being very lightly used. If interested, check E-Bay item #180574087652 Rebecca Burch ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern
There are examples of the camicia/chemise with a quasy raglan sleeve but they have gussets. Smocking and gathering was done. A ruler and blue chalk to mark the stitches or if in a hurry, a basting stitch on your sewing machine will help give even gatherings for pleating. If you have patience you can count the threads. Side note, the chemise's hem does not go to the floor, it is usually calf length. Fabric was silk or linen (I have heard rumors of cotton as well for mid to late 1500s) Currently, silk and cotton are your cheapest route. You can get the light weight, near sheer linen from a company in Europe for roughly $45 yd. 36 wide. Most settle for handkerchief weight linen which is a shade or two heavier then sheer linen. There is a Yahoo Groups list for Italian Renaissance costuming. You should be able to get even more info. on Italian Ren clothing there. The pic that you chose is Venetian influence and therefore you may wish to peruse the Realm of Venus site as there are some differences of clothing between Italian city states. De -Original Message- (snip) I agree completely about the 'gathering' looking like very fine cartridge pleating. It will be a test of my stitching patience, but I love the look. Yes, the softer and lighter the fabric, the better my odds for success. I'll try my cotton first, just as a practice run and because it is here and ready. After that...time to shop I suppose. Thank you so much for your response. With everything that everyone has offered up in the way of links and ideas, I'm comfortable finally with getting this chemise started and finished. Laurie T. -Original Message- As I recall, the general consensus is that this raglan-style is not supported by current research. If you want a more documentable pattern, go with this one: http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/chemise.html Refer also to Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion 4 for tips on how to accomplish the gathering. Gathering, back in their day, is a lot more like super-fine cartridge pleating. That's really just how it turns out when you do gathering stitches by hand (it doesn't have to, but it sure looks good that way). ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] I found my way back!
Their use of regalia is that they are putting on their finest clothing, they are regaling themselves. It is believed that the word costume is for garments worn for Halloween. The dance regalia is something different then a dress up and pretend piece of clothing. The use of regalia instead of costumes began roughly around the 1980s. The purpose was reclaiming heritage and putting a more serious label on the garments. Not all the tribes use the word regalia to define ceremonial clothing. The head piece is a skullcap base. The feather's tip is covered with a wool felt piece of cloth and then sinew is wrapped to secure it and then the feather is sewn on. There are variations to the feather tip treatment. There is a hat pin with feathers that holds the headdress on and sometimes a chin string. The Jingle Dance is referred to as a medicine dance. There are several stories but all have a sick girl involved. There are two styles of dance, the jump/skip kind is mostly done by the Ojibwa and the shuffle style by the Iroquois. The original cones were out of condensed milk can lids and then, because of the stamp on the tobacco can lids, those lids replace the milk can lids. Among the Ojibwa families, they have a ceremonial process in making a jingle dress. The fancy shawl dance is not a medicine dance, it is the female equivalent to the male fancy dancers. There were female fancy dancers when the dance was created but as life progressed the modesty of the 50s and 60s somewhat ended that. De Who lives near a descendant of Pocahontas' sister and a descendant of Massasoit's daughter. -Original Message- ress is called regalia. They are offended if you call it costume Now here is another interesting use of a word for one's clothing and accouterments. Had to look up exactly what regalia means--I have of course seen it to mean one's trappings, outfit, etc. Its origin, though, which makes sense if one thinks about it, is the rights and privileges belong to a monarch or ruler. I referred to myself as a costume historian to a War of 1812 reenactor, and he insisted his outfit is clothing, not costume. Yet, among square dancers, the preferred term for the matching outfits worn by everyone on the committee of a national square dance convention is costume. Clothing, apparel, attire, costume, regalia--I guess it is like one's own personal name--one should use the term the individual (or group) prefers. However, one shouldn't be offended if a poor soul uses the wrong term because one doesn't know what that group prefers! Ann Wass -Original Message- First, the Chickahominy are the people whoidnapped Jamestowne's John Smith. Second, at a pow-wow, the host is the hickahominy. They invited Indian nations from all over the U.S. Their ress is called regalia. They are offended if you call it costume. It may ake a lifetime to complete their regalia. Some of the regalia may be nherited from an ancestor. The Chickahominy holds classes to teach their oung people how to loom-bead and create their regalia. The Jingle Girls ave an interesting history behind the bells on their regalia. The bells re made with old tobacco or snuff tin lids. We have some beautiful video f them dancing. The jingle makes an enchanting sound. You can see a lose-up photo of a Jingle Girl's skirt on the Henricus slideshow. FYI, Henricus is up-river from Jamestowne. Pocahontas and John Rolfe werearried there. Penny Ladnier ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Sheer linen RE: Chemise pattern
Bjarne posted it long ago and I knew I didn't have the funds then or have it in the future so I didn't save it. I think it was in Copenhagan and actually I think it was $65 and not $45. Also I vaguely remember someone mentioning a European fabric store that specialized in Catholic fabrics that had the sheer linen for openwork, again didn't save it. I have found at Jo Ann's a cotton/linen blend that came very close to the chemise weight. I think it is called tissue linen. De -Original Message- Not that I'm in the market for it currently ;) but I'd love to know the name of the company in Europe that offers the sheer linen... -M ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Words for clothes (WAS: Re: I found my way back!)
Usually it does. Most Norse reinactors when saying kit usually means clothing, knives, shoes, belt...etc. De -Original Message- the term kit a lot. I like kit because, to me, it implies all the other stuff one takes along besides actual clothes. Ann Wass -Original Message- In the UK, you hear the term kit a lot. When doing my Victorian stuff, we sually say we are going in kit instead of in garb or in costume. :) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] (no subject)
I only know of one rumored drawstring camacia/chemise, all others are pleated, gathered and flat. The cuffs are not drawstringed either. Realm of Venus is a good place to look for Venetian. http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/ Wardrobe takes you to the paintings. Library is research Workbox is extant Showcase are dress diaries of their interpretations of pre 1600s clothing (there are one or two Dangerous Beauties styles). De -Original Message- http://exhibits.denverartmuseum.org/artisansandkings/?page_id=23 The chemise in the painting seems unlikely to have a drawstring neckline. Any thoughts on this? The picture on WGA.hu, zoomed to 200%, looks like maybe very fine, parallel rows of gathers which would not have the adjustability of a drawstring, but it's that gathered look that I like about this chemise. The sleeves are extremely full, but this could be a drawstring that has been left un-drawn, untied. Again, any interpretations from any of you? Thanks. Laurie T. Phoenix ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] suggestions/help to recreate the Luthers
The style of Katherina is a Saxony gown http://tinyurl.com/23qtw64 The white around the neck is mostlikely a partlet but may be the chemise/hemd. A Robe belonging to Luther http://tinyurl.com/2c7agup More pics of Luther. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther More pics of Katherina http://tinyurl.com/2azspjw http://tinyurl.com/2e7thp8 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tres Riches sheer? FW: [Alderfolk] Fashion Crisis!
My apologies, I had a duh moment when I asked. I have the book from when I use to do illumination and kept it for costume use. :P Yes, it clearly is not a red beaded edge sheer cape. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Tres Riches sheer? FW: [Alderfolk] Fashion Crisis!
Could you direct me to an online pic of this? I have come across through browsing some 1400s Italian paintings with sheer material layer over fabric of the over gown. Most were by the same artist but one w/embroidery by another artist from an earlier period. All but one are allegorical and the embroidered I think was a saint but I don't think the way these are painted that it is a whimsical fantasy of the artist(s). De -Original Message- (snip) He did a book on later medieval fashion where he misintreprets the long bead string worn by a woman in the Tres Riches Heures as a transparent fabric with a beaded edge. -- Cathy Raymond ca...@thyrsus.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Cleaning rust from sewing scissors
Have you tried Dawn soap and a scotch brite pan scrubber? This is assuming you don't mind scratches on the scissors. WD40 it then scrub with a scotch brite or vinegar and salt rub. It depends on how bad the rust is. The first and second works on medium rust and the latter works on light rust. De -Original Message- They still have a fair amount of rust on them. Does anyone know of a product or method for cleaning them? I am sorry, but I don't know what metal the blades are made of. Fran ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Update!
What is the purpose of the contest? De -Original Message- Thank you to everyone who went and viewed the photos. If you haven't viewed the photos, please go and view the photos that I entered into the photo contest. It has the most views of all the other contestants and is listed on the front page for the contest. YIPPEE! More people are getting to know a little about historic costumes. The contest ends Friday, England time. The link is: http://tinyurl.com/36dn795 (snip) Penny Ladnier ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Period Impressions Patterns
I found this Period Impressions 4412 Talmage Mayo Rd Harrodsburg, KY 40330-9419 Phone: (859) 366-0312 no known website or email address De -Original Message- Does anyone know if the people who produce Period Impressions patterns are still in business? If so, I would appreciate contact information. Google has let me down! Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Sort of OT - Anyone speak/write Italian?
I'm not awake.:P What is the word or phrase and time period and I can swing this by the Italian list I am on. De -Original Message- This is actually costume related. I was asked if I knew anyone who spoke/wrote Italian. The reason is someone wants to write something in Italian on a historical garment...so I am guessing medievalish Italian. Thanks Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slightly OT about support
Since this is an out of print pattern, for those who want to see what is being talked about here is a pic. http://tinyurl.com/29gmx2p Personally I would go with the undergarment pattern that goes with this gown. Not so much that it would be period in look but because the gown will look more like the picture in form which makes it look lovely. (simplicity 2890) http://www.simplicity.com/p-1802-costumes.aspx Perhaps this might explain things more. http://tinyurl.com/2524ktu Note the pic. of the bodice in red, it doesn't have the corset. It's not smooth. If you can achieve a smooth surface with boning and cups in the bodice then go for it. De -Original Message- Hello all, I'm making a wedding dress based on Simplicity 5724, one of The Fashion Historian Civil War ball gowns. I say based on because the top will have to be altered to fit, and I'm not so sure about the sleeves. My question is, should I make a corset, or add boning and cups to the top? I do not care about being period or not, just like the dress. Does anyone on the list have experience with such a thing? Thank you. Kate ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Proper name for black layer?
The best that I can say, as I am still learning. It appears that the red is a doublet/pourpoint/farcetto. The black without seeing it's actual form could be a man's version of a woman's giornea. http://tinyurl.com/325yc8l Because there is a skirt or peplum to the black it is not a plackett(sp?) The outer is a coat but I don't know the name. It is alleged by some to have evolved from the houppelaud. You will find similar outfits in 1490 Italian paintings. http://tinyurl.com/33k4rut The dwarf is wearing the giornea type garment. Now the man on the left/front appears to be wearing a red doublet and a black one over that. http://tinyurl.com/383wj6d http://tinyurl.com/34okvhh This one appears to have a plackett. The style appears to be early waffenrock. De -Original Message- manuscript page What is the proper name for the black layer of clothing in the picture of him fully dressed (from the front?). It is most likely sleevless The red part is his pour-point right? Or is it his doublet? Is the black called a Jerkin? The origin is Flemish, but the house of Nassau had lands sprinkled all over the place http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminatedmanuscripts/ILLUMIN.ASP?Size=midIllI D=28499 http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminatedmanuscripts/ILLUMIN.ASP?Size=midIllI D=22357 Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Caracalla
Here is more statues under his real name http://tinyurl.com/3af9hrj It sounds like your looking for a travelers cloak. One that Mercury is usually depicted in wearing besides the traditional hat. De -Original Message- The hooded Gallo-Roman garment that gave the Emperor Caracalla his nickname (kinda like Caligula's nickname is from the boots). Busts of Caracalla show a drape of fabric which may or may not be the caracalla garment. Thanks! Althea Turner alt...@alfalfapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Suggestions on trim
Which gown? There are at least 4 types. http://tinyurl.com/2by2jej Are you speaking of the burial gown? http://farm1.static.flickr.com/155/413141744_784f44dc14_o.jpg http://tinyurl.com/278vn6n Side find: Eleanora's stays http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/workbox/extwomclo3.htm Personal thought is that a white would be to stark. 4 inches? That seems a bit wide. You do have the option of using the strip of silk that is dyed as a way to widen the trim by laying a 2 or more trim on that and possibly if you feel the need, embellish. You should look for trim that is gold tone and possibly trim with hint of white or small pearl bead accents. Or the trim can be a complimentary color with gold metallic. This is just an example. Say you have the strip layed down. on top of it you have a 2 trim like this http://www.calontirtrim.com/queries/showtrim.asp?trimid=1116 then you can embellish with pearls/beads on the trim design and along the edge of the trim to tie in the white. You want the guards/trim to balance with the gown, not stand out or overwhelm. Or http://www.calontirtrim.com/queries/showtrim.asp?trimid=669 non metallic trim of a complimentary color and pearls, plus if your energetic you can embroider extra accent in a gold tone. (Just using the Calontir Trim for examples) De -Original Message- I am putting together a gown in the style Eleanora de Toledo's burial gown. The fabric I am using is a once ivory embroidered silk. The color is a lovely cranberry/claret color. The embroidery didn't take much if any of the dye so I have a scrolling vine/flower in a nearly white on the cranberry/clart back grown. I suspected this would happen, since I didn't think the embroidery was done in silk, or any other natural fiber. This I can live with. My question is in regards to the trim/guards for the gown. In the same dye bath I put in a yard or so of an off white silk that I can make a matching trim. There's no embroidery on this silk and I intend to add whatever decoration that it needs, embroidery, pearls, gold beads, etc. I'm just not sure this is the right color for the trim/guard since it's so close to the main fabric. I wonder if some black velveteen might work, but with the white embroidery on the body of the gown? Maybe a white velveteen? Has anyone seen a white color used as trim/guards on Floretine fashions on the mid 16th century? I'm estimating about ten to twelve yards of trim, so unless I can find some three-to four inch wide trim really inexpensive, I was planning to make the trim. alex -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Caracalla
What actually is it that you are looking for? I'm finding several things called caracalla. For example Emperor Caracalla http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Caracalla.jpg There are the baths of Caracalla and the story of Caracalla Geta Here are the google images http://tinyurl.com/323dt8a De -Original Message- Does anyone know of contemporary images of the caracalla? I can't seem to find a single image on line. My google-fu is weak. Thanks! Althea Turner alt...@alfalfapress.com We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it. Edward R. Murrow ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 19th c women's dress - pockets
The wine was not the woman choice. You will have to consider the types of cakes that they had during that period and she may have wrapped the chicken in a kerchief or something to separate the chicken from the cakes. De -Original Message- Secondly, who in their right mind would put them all in there together??? (snip) - I still wouldn't be putting cake and wine and chicken in there all at once... ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 19th c women's dress - pockets
You also need to consider that at that time in some countries a woman of upper class had to give the illusion of delicacy and was expected to eat tiny portions (I believe Q. Victoria told women to eat small portions, among other advise she gave) and therefore would have secreted food for later consumption especially if one was not married. There is also the dish(es) that one chef knows how to make and he is not your chef, so you horde the treat for later. De -Original Message- There are a couple of issues here, one being that the desperately poor may stoop to things the affluent attending a ball would not stoop to. The other is that middle- and upper-class Victorian women were determined that their clothes should look clean and tidy at all times, without the benefit of modern dry cleaning and laundry methods and with smaller wardrobes than we have. Fran Lavolta Press www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 19th c women's dress - pockets
Is it possible that in this case the pocket is actually a purse or pouch and not what we consider a pocket? Example: pocketbook. 18th century pocketbooks http://tinyurl.com/2ehf9ud http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:18th_century_purses 19th http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:19th_century_purses waist pocket http://tinyurl.com/2c89n3b De -Original Message- I cant imagine why she'd put chicken cake in the *same* pocket. --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Kimiko Small sstormwa...@yahoo.com wrote: One stout middle-aged French woman was engaged in filling her pockets which were stuffed out with cold chicken and sweet cakes as she stood before me. I was eating a custard – the opportunity was tempting – so I emptied my glass into her open pocket, and a nice mixture she must have found when she got home. That... is one LARGE pocket. I can't imagine putting chicken and cakes and more into the little pockets of my modern clothing. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Finally, someone has figured out how to repurpose doilies
I have seen this style in the 70s, mid to late 80s and I think mid 90s. This is nothing new. I used to own a blouse that was patchwork lace and doilies. Tiered skirts, jackets, pants...most of these were of country western design or ol' west. De -Original Message- On 5/22/2010 6:06 PM, Käthe Barrows wrote: Hippies were doing that way back in the 1960s. But not, as I remember, with quite the same degree of tattered, deconstructed sensibility. The new eco-couture seems to be wilder than that of the 60s. I quite like a lot of it, but feel the style should be wearable off a runway, the materials should be durable enough to hold up for awhile, and also, I prefer a Victorian/Edwardian look which a lot of it isn't. There are a ton of interesting ideas out there though. Fran Lavolta Press www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Urgent help needed with Butterick Pattern B4571
I have the pattern somewhere but they have the back envelope information on the website. CONTRAST 45* 2 7/8 60* 2 http://tinyurl.com/32o24cp De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] References to silk ribbon embroidery for clothing inregency tim...
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art55487.asp might help -Original Message- I am thinking about embroidering a spencer with silk ribbon. I tried several years ago to document the use of silk ribbon embroidery in Regency times and didn't have any luck. It may be that it originated in the 18th c., then went out of fashion until later, although even the assertion that it was popular in the 18th century was not well-documented. If anyone has convincing evidence, I would love to see it. Ann Wass ume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] References to silk ribbon embroidery for clothing inregency tim...
Hard to tell, not a spencer http://tinyurl.com/29z9f47 http://tinyurl.com/23xn7gd Though not an expert, I have not seen either the spencer jacket or the light weight spencer jacket with ribbon embroidery but if it was done and no extent currently found, I would say cuff area is one location and possibly armseye seam area. -Original Message- I am thinking about embroidering a spencer with silk ribbon. I tried several years ago to document the use of silk ribbon embroidery in Regency times and didn't have any luck. It may be that it originated in the 18th c., then went out of fashion until later, although even the assertion that it was popular in the 18th century was not well-documented. If anyone has convincing evidence, I would love to see it. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Unidenitified object
I am thinking by your description that it may be something to do with making lace but not bobbin lace. Or it could be a pin puller. -Original Message- I have the piece you describe above and the 'sewing' item is nothing like it. VT Country Store still stocks the hair item. ?My 'racket' is definately a sewing/knitting tool of some kind. It came in a lot of sewing items; also in the lot is a piece (same plastic) that at first looks like a baby pacifier. It is a 5 stick with small loop at one end and a disc about the size of a fifty cent coin, is pierced and mounted on the stick. The other end is slightly like a tweezer, but not manipulative. Anyone want to guess this one? Kathleen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Unidenitified object
It may not be the same thing but I have seen something similar to it. One was used for the mouth of a yarn bag. The other use was for sewing but I can't remeber what specifically for and I had the impression that it was an adaptation to what it's original purpose was. Sorry, De -Original Message- This was found in my grandmother's things after she passed. She kept it with her sewing stuff although that doesn't necessarily mean it's sewing-related. Any idea what it is? http://picasaweb.google.com/Charlene281/20100404?feat=directlink --Charlene -- Gossip is when you hear something you like about someone you don't. --Earl Wilson ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] A strange question
-Original Message- The running joke is Steampunk is what happens when goths discover brown. Lots of grey in there too. -- Carolyn Kayta Barrows --- hmmm...grey matter...interesting. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] victorian gown?
It looks like a modern goth variation of the Pirates of the Caribean costume pattern http://www.simplicity.com/p-2098-costumes.aspx Simplicity #40?? (For some reason, ever since Simplicity up graded there website my computer periodical freezes up when I try to browse their site. So I wasn't able to get the number before it glitched my screen. I think they stuck a bustle on it and called it Victorian. Well at least it isn't listed in thier historical pattern section. De -Original Message- Looks like a Tudor-ish neckline, 1700's sleeves, a 1990's bridal dress train thingy, an Elizabethan forepart and hoop shape, a 1860's basque waist and a bustle era-inspired gathered back. I believe the Victorians did stuff like this for fancy dress, but what era this one's going for is beyond me! It has something for everyone. But as a foofy bridal gown, it's nice, surprisingly. -Original Message- http://mccallpattern.mccall.com/m6097-products-10908.php?page_id=96 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
