[Hornlist] Screech horns
Hello, hornophiles-- I was listening to a performance of the Schumann Horn Konzerstueck and trying not to get depressed about how far I am from ever achieving that level of playing when a thought occurred: What kind of horn would the first horn, whose part goes up to at least a high Z, play? A hornette? A picolo horn? Jonathan Yoder (For whom playing an A above the staff is a victory) Send Horn mailing list submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Horn digest... Please edit replies to include only relevant text. Please DO NOT include the entire digest in your reply. Today's Topics: 1. Bumblebee and Rudi Mazac (phirsch) 2. Free CDs and LPs (phirsch) 3. Cabbage at FermiLab ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 4. Re: Bumblebee and Rudi Mazac (Benno Heinemann) 5. On Being Cabbaged ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 6. RE: Bumblebee and Rudi Mazac ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 7. Bach Mouthpiece. (Wendell Rider) 8. Re: Bach Mouthpiece. ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 9. silver plating - to Dr.Robert Pyle ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 10. Re: Bach Mouthpiece. (Wilbert Kimple) 11. Re: PHC Cups ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- message: 1 date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:25:12 -0400 from: phirsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: [Hornlist] Bumblebee and Rudi Mazac date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:34:21 +0800 from: Joe Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: [Hornlist] Flight of the bumblebee Hi, does anyone know of any horn recordings of flight of the bumblebee? if so, who? and wat record label? regards, jon Yes, one, jon (or is it Jon?). Rudi Mazac has done number of, mostly self produced and manufactured, CDs. The only one that has even remotely the appearance of a conventionally produced CD (other than one consisting entirely of hunting fanfares) is called Classics on the French Horn on the Tyrolis label. It is entirely schlocky transcriptions of classical hits, some horn related like Freischuetz hunting chorus and the Tannhauser Pilgrims chorus, but mostly they are Flight of the bumblebee, Turkish march, Khatchaturian Saber dance, Elvira Madigan Andante, you get the drift? This isn't to say that his ghastly arrangements (synthesized) and excessive over-the-top double tonguing don't make for a wonderful party record. This CD can be gotten from www.koebl.de (along with several of his other efforts) at 18-20 Euro a pop (ouch), plus substantial postage and they don't do charges, so you have to pay another 15 bucks or so for a wire transfer (ouch again) or just send cash if you can find a bank that will sell you Euros and you feel lucky. You may also be able to locate it through jpc.de (probably a cheaper option if they have it). I have all of his recordings that I have been able to find (there are at least 6 or 7) since I am unable to stay away from unique recordings of horn music, even if unique is sometimes synonymous with atrocious or simply weird. I am not too impressed musically or technically and think he may be a convert from some other brass instrument. There is, however, something undeniably different about most of his recordings. None of his CDs have more than minimal, usually Xeroxed, inserts with no biographical material at all; maybe Hans knows a bit about him. Peter Hirsch -- message: 2 date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:31:07 -0400 from: phirsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: [Hornlist] Free CDs and LPs I have a few duplicate copies (store bought by mistake, not home-burned dupes) of horn related CDs and LPs that I will be willing to send to list members for the price of postage. If you are interested, reply to me, OFF LIST and I will send you a list of what they are. I will make a random drawing if there items that interest more than one person and of course, if you are an old list acquaintance, the odds just might swing a bit in your favor. ;+| Peter Hirsch REPLY TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED]or [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- message: 3 date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 13:59:24 EDT from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: [Hornlist] Cabbage at FermiLab Joe D is dizzy with excitement at the prospect of hearing Prof. Cabbage speak and play: And then, he said that his tone is rather dark! I suppose that is in reference to his playing tone, or what else could it be?!?!? And so, It would surely (likely) be appropriate for us all to raise the shades, open the windows, and see whether the dark tone affects the snow-flakes, nearby!! Can that be so?? Everone look to
Re: [Hornlist] Screech horns
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was listening to a performance of the Schumann Horn Konzerstueck What kind of horn would the first horn, whose part goes up to at least a high Z, play? A hornette? A picolo horn? Most first horns on the Schumann seem touse a B-flat/high-F double decsant horn. That like the B-flat side of the regular double + a horn half the size of the regular F horn on top. It doesn't make it physically any easier to play high E's, but it provides some insurance against really bad clams for players who *can* play that high. And off the subject: please do not quote the entire digest when sending a message to the list. Good etiquette would be to trim the message, much like I have above, to quote relevent parts. Since yours was an original thread, an otherwise blank email would have been appropriate. Greg ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Screech horns
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, hornophiles-- I was listening to a performance of the Schumann Horn Konzerstueck and trying not to get depressed about how far I am from ever achieving that level of playing when a thought occurred: What kind of horn would the first horn, whose part goes up to at least a high Z, play? A hornette? A picolo horn? Jonathan Yoder (For whom playing an A above the staff is a victory) I've seen it done a couple of times with a standard double horn on the first part. Most of the time, including the two times I've done it, a descant horn is used. Mine is an alexander 107 in Bb and high F. Phil Myers (NY Phil) used his Schmid Bb high Eb when I heard his section do it live two years ago. The highest notes in the piece are a couple of high Es, three ledger lines above the treble staff. They are in the third movement, and one of them is really optional, at least in my arrangement. Actually, in many ways, the second horn, which has to go to a high B, has the hardest part, since it is out of their normal range. Wilbert in SC ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Screech horns
On Wednesday, October 6, 2004, at 11:39 AM, Wilbert Kimple wrote: I've seen it done a couple of times with a standard double horn on the first part. Most of the time, including the two times I've done it, a descant horn is used. Mine is an alexander 107 in Bb and high F. Phil Myers (NY Phil) used his Schmid Bb high Eb when I heard his section do it live two years ago. Alan Civil used to do it on his Alex Model 90 Bb single. I heard him a couple of times, I think. One nice example was at the IHS workshop in 1978 at East Lansing. (Concertstück with wind ensemble accompaniment. Mostly before triples, I think.) CORdially, Paul Mansur ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Screech horns
Ooops, oops, Wilbert, I am sorry about your ears. This piece goes up to high e3 (first third mov.) and several high c3 (31) high d3 (3) are part of the first part. Did you tune down your arrangement ? Just a half step ? And high b2 is not unusual for second horn (R.Strauss, Wagner, Pre classic, Classic ) I just used my regular double. If a first horn, a soloist for this piece, has no save no powerful high e3 ALWAYS, he or she should not accept an invitation to play Konzertstueck. Punctum. That´s the rule. What comes first: the capability (potence) to play Konzertstueck or the piece the invitation or the wish to play it ? Do you know the main cause for ruined (not yet begun) careers ? Trying to play Konzertstueck first horn, when not mature enough embouchure wise experience wise. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wilbert Kimple Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 4:39 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Screech horns [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, hornophiles-- I was listening to a performance of the Schumann Horn Konzerstueck and trying not to get depressed about how far I am from ever achieving that level of playing when a thought occurred: What kind of horn would the first horn, whose part goes up to at least a high Z, play? A hornette? A picolo horn? Jonathan Yoder (For whom playing an A above the staff is a victory) I've seen it done a couple of times with a standard double horn on the first part. Most of the time, including the two times I've done it, a descant horn is used. Mine is an alexander 107 in Bb and high F. Phil Myers (NY Phil) used his Schmid Bb high Eb when I heard his section do it live two years ago. The highest notes in the piece are a couple of high Es, three ledger lines above the treble staff. They are in the third movement, and one of them is really optional, at least in my arrangement. Actually, in many ways, the second horn, which has to go to a high B, has the hardest part, since it is out of their normal range. Wilbert in SC ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Screech horns - Schumann
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ooops, oops, Wilbert, I am sorry about your ears. This piece goes up to high e3 (first third mov.) and several high c3 (31) high d3 (3) are part of the first part. Did you tune down your arrangement ? Just a half step ? Hans, The Arrangement of the Schumann I have was published by International Music Company in 1968, (editor unknown) and the last time I performed it was some three years ago. No, it has not been transposed down!!! I have the music in front of me now, and, in this arrangement, I find no high e3s or d3s for the first part in the first movement. The third movement does have two e3s, one (with an optional rest) 19 measures after letter Q, and the other (with an optional octave down passage) five measures from the end of the third movement. At the age of 58, with more than 30 years of first horn orchestral playing behind me, I feel I am more than qualified to perform this work, and have always been able to play the e3s as they appear in my arrangement. You may have access to other, more exact versions, but I do not. I am not a full time pro, and not nearly as talented as you are either, and that does make a difference. Nor do I have access to a section the quality of your's - another consideration. Also, you may play lots of Strauss, etc., where the second horn goes to b above the staff, but the last time we played Strauss in this area was Don Juan, some five years ago. Otherwise, my second horn player seldom goes above a top space g. Wilbert in SC ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Screech horns
Alan Civil used to do it on his Alex Model 90 Bb single. I've no doubt that he could... *** One nice example was at the IHS workshop in 1978 at East Lansing. (Concertstuck with wind ensemble) accompaniment I was there on the front row. That one was memorable for two reasons: 1) a guy in the euphonium section thought HE was the soloist (can you say tasteless? If you were there, you could!), and: 2) Alan almost shredded Michael Holtzel off the conductor's podium with the first of those high E's. Holtzel was securely belted and ready for the second one. Speaking of being belted, wasn't that the Concertstuck that was preceded by a uniformed waitress strolling in with glasses of fortifying wine for the quartet? Sort of a we who are about to die, salute you effect. However, though he'd played his normal Alex single Bb all that week, Alan was playing a borrowed Alex descant in Bb-High F for the Schumann. Discretion being the better part of valor, I suppose. He borrowed it from someone in the audience, but I can't recall who that was. jrc in SC ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Screech horns
In a message dated 10/6/2004 4:47:36 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you know the main cause for ruined (not yet begun) careers ? Trying to play Konzertstueck first horn, when not mature enough embouchure wise experience wise. Thank you, Professor Pizka, for this sage advice. My current plan for playing Konzertstueck, is when I have walked through the Pearly Gates of Heaven.for there I will make NO MISTAKES, and hit every e3 with perfect pitch and intonation. Dee Anne Proctor Nashville, TN ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Screech horns - Schumann
Sorry, I read high Es , but read it in the German way - late night after Frau ohne Schatten - , which would mean Es = E-flat. How about the end of the first movement ? There is the climax with the rung over high d up to high e3. And the third movement with the high e3 several high d3 ? This is from the original. And regarding second horn: did you ever consider that Schumann had the two high horns at position 1 2 and the two lower horns at position 3 4, as later did Anton Bruckner ? And Richard Strauss did not only compose the symphonic poems, but also many very, very demanding operas. Greetings from early morning (7:00 AM after short sleep). Hans -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wilbert Kimple Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 1:03 AM To: The Horn List Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Screech horns - Schumann --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ooops, oops, Wilbert, I am sorry about your ears. This piece goes up to high e3 (first third mov.) and several high c3 (31) high d3 (3) are part of the first part. Did you tune down your arrangement ? Just a half step ? Hans, The Arrangement of the Schumann I have was published by International Music Company in 1968, (editor unknown) and the last time I performed it was some three years ago. No, it has not been transposed down!!! I have the music in front of me now, and, in this arrangement, I find no high e3s or d3s for the first part in the first movement. The third movement does have two e3s, one (with an optional rest) 19 measures after letter Q, and the other (with an optional octave down passage) five measures from the end of the third movement. At the age of 58, with more than 30 years of first horn orchestral playing behind me, I feel I am more than qualified to perform this work, and have always been able to play the e3s as they appear in my arrangement. You may have access to other, more exact versions, but I do not. I am not a full time pro, and not nearly as talented as you are either, and that does make a difference. Nor do I have access to a section the quality of your's - another consideration. Also, you may play lots of Strauss, etc., where the second horn goes to b above the staff, but the last time we played Strauss in this area was Don Juan, some five years ago. Otherwise, my second horn player seldom goes above a top space g. Wilbert in SC ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
