Re: [HOT] Map4Haiti

2016-10-15 Thread Mikel Maron 
I'm not really interested to engage in old nonsense and distractions like this. 
Does nothing to help anyone.

Point still is, an additional tasking manager for this response is unnecessary 
and confusing.

Mikel

On Saturday, October 15, 2016, 9:25 AM, Pierre Béland  wrote:


Mikel Maron mikel.maron at gmail.com  wrote on Sat Oct 15 12:03:00 UTC 2016 > 
Having two tasking managers for the same response area is of course going to 
create conflicts. 
> There's no need at all to create jobs for Haiti on another tasking manager. 
> Simply, communicat>  the needs for mapping, including AOI, need, etc, to the 
> HOT activation team and it will be prioritized and set up.
Nicolas Chavent lead in January 2010 the OpenStreetMap Humanitarian Responses 
in Haiti, making a few trips in Haiti with other GIS from the not yet 
incorporated NGO called HOT.  These first major Activtion add quite a great 
success and showed the capacity of NGO's to collaborate with UN agencies and 
humanitarian NGO's.
>From 2012, we started a serie of major Activations. I lead Activations for DR 
>Congo, Mali, Haiyan Philippines, West Africa Ebola, Vanuatu and the Nepal 
>earthquake last year.  Severin also lead a serie of Activations for forgotten 
>conflicts such as Central Africa an South Sudan.  This brought in a lot of 
>innovations, more and more confidence for humanitarian NGO's to work with 
>OpenStreetMap.
But badly at the same time there are conflicts inside HOT about orientations 
and some people that do not respect enough volunteers. New rules to control the 
Tasking manager, censorship of the HOT list, new rules that exclude the 'Bad 
frenchies' from the Activation lead, this is not the best when you start an 
Activation like this one for Haiti.
Nicolas, Severin, Jean-Guilhem, Fred and myself all worked in Haiti to develop 
the OSM community.  Fred Moine worked two years for the OIM in Port-au-Prince 
and continued collaboration with haitians to develop an Imagery acquisition 
project with Drones.  He did provide 3D imagery for various location at risk 
such as Riviere Grise and Canaan.

You and your friends Mikel have choose to not support Fred initiatives but to 
support later the development of Uviator.
In parrallel to HOT our group of quite experienced leaders of OS Responses are 
working to support a team of OSM responders in Port-au-Prince. Fred Moine, 
Xavier Tardieu and Pressler Jean are working closely with the Haiti Civil 
Security. We did work to enhance the list of Schools and hospitals in the South 
West peninsula of Haiti. The OSM african contributors from Bouake organize Task 
Manager jobs to focus on the most affected areas.  Our collegues in 
Port-au-Prince also had the opportunity last week to take an helico while the 
road was closed and take the first drone images of Jeremy to asssess the 
situation with the Haiti Civil Security. They will have new missions next week 
to cover more areas.
There are tensions and hunger in these towns where more then 80% of houses are 
damaged or destructed. The drones offer a great possibility to help to assess 
the damages and the Civil Security wants to try this option.
As Jean-Guilhem was saying yesterday (please stop to censor his emails) we will 
organise post-disaster tasks to evaluate damages.
Dale was criticizing before such projects.  As I told him after Haiyan, both 
OSM, Copernicus and others did evaluations using very bad aerial imagery due to 
bad atmospheric conditions.  There were surely limits to such evaluations. 
Imagery from Drone offer quite better quality. Plus we have to adapt to the 
reality and needs of each Activation.
In the best world we would work all together with respect and continue to 
progress to respond better and better to international humanitarian responses.
We have great experience with Activations and want to continue helping the 
international community and NGO's in such difficult situations.  We need to 
concentrate in the western part of the South-west peninsula where NGO's did not 
deliver yet water and food, where teams of doctors circulate rapidly in some 
points to take care only of more wounded persons. Cholera is spreading and 
there is a high risk of epidemy.
Mikel, Dale and other board members you decided to take different directions. 
If you are ready to work with respect, openess with us, to let the experienced 
volunteers continue to lead Activations and be on the DHN coordination room 
with our partners, tell us. 


regard
 
Pierre 

 

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Map4Haiti

2016-10-15 Thread Mikel Maron 
 blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px 
#715FFA solid !important;  padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:white 
!important; }  Agree with you John. Working with local mapper groups of course 
is the best. There are many French speaking HOT members and volunteers, 
including in Haiti.
But that's a seperate topic from running an additional unnecessary tasking 
manager.

Mikel

On Saturday, October 15, 2016, 9:08 AM, john whelan  
wrote:

Which begs the question why should HOT decide the priorities?

I note that we don't see many projects from local groups especially in the high 
priority list and in this case Haiti the local language is French which means 
it is more difficult for the local needs to be understood by none francophone 
outsiders.

There are problems with the functioning of the government of Haiti but there 
are functioning OSM locals but the best way to strengthen them is to work with 
them.

Cheerio John

On 15 October 2016 at 08:03, Mikel Maron  wrote:

Having two tasking managers for the same response area is of course going to 
create conflicts. There's no need at all to create jobs for Haiti on another 
tasking manager. Simply, communicate the needs for mapping, including AOI, 
need, etc, to the HOT activation team and it will be prioritized and set up.

Mikel

On Saturday, October 15, 2016, 4:51 AM, Severin Menard 
 wrote:

 
Hi,

New update about ourcontribution to the OSM Map4Haiti mapping. Job#45 is almost 
done now and we will start mapping the rural areaswithin the hills of 
département of Grande-Anse, over the communes ofAbricots, Dame-Marie, 
Chambellan, Moron, Anse d'Hainault and GrandeAnse, located in the most affected 
areas by Hurricane Matthew (UNOSATimpact zone 1, with winds over 120 km/h) with 
job#64, continuing our systematic, consolidated effort over thehills (called 
mornes in Haiti).

We hold an agileSOTM today here at Université Alassane Ouattara and will have a 
teamof crisis mapping during the whole day to show students and peoplewhat it 
is. No newcomer will be invited to map on Haiti from Bouakébut invited to 
become a local mapper, raise his skills and join laterwhen experienced enough. 

I hope this messageis read by the HOT US coordination team, especially Dale 
Kunce: 

October 8 6:30 PM UTCI communicated about job #39about pre-disaster mapping 
over Jeremie. On October 12, whenour mapping is almost done on Central Jeremie, 
we figure out peopleare mapping on the area, due to a HOTUS job #2228 created 
by Dale Kunce. We stopped and quicklydetected all the mistakes done by very 
recent mappers. 

October 12 11:40 AMUTC I communicated on the hot list including regarding 
job#45 about mapping Jeremie’s hinterland. Later this day, HOTUS job #2224 
covering an area slightly smaller inside the one Imade was created by Dale 
Kunce... As if there was no other places to bemapped in Haiti... 

So far, we created 7jobs over Haiti, I communicated about them and they are all 
onthe http://taches. francophonelibre.org frontpage, so it is not a big deal 
justto check them.

@Dale I think HOT UScreated a curriculum to raise skills to become Crisis 
activators, Iwould advise you to read it one day when you have a bit of time. 
If ever it does not mention to read andcommunicate in the hot list during an 
activation, I would suggest toadd it into the documentation. As an incorporated 
company, HOT US may have its own internaltools to organize its mapping, but the 
minimum is to communicate abit on the hot list with the OSM community, who is 
the holder of thislist (as everything with @openstreetmap.org). 
If you now create anew job covering job#45, I may try next time to create a job 
in the middle of thewater, just to see if you jump on it. 



Sincerely,



Severin
__ _
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap. org/listinfo/hot

 


__ _
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap. org/listinfo/hot




 

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Map4Haiti

2016-10-15 Thread Pierre Béland 

Mikel Maron mikel.maron at gmail.com  wrote on Sat Oct 15 12:03:00 UTC 2016 > 
Having two tasking managers for the same response area is of course going to 
create conflicts. 
> There's no need at all to create jobs for Haiti on another tasking manager. 
> Simply, communicat>  the needs for mapping, including AOI, need, etc, to the 
> HOT activation team and it will be prioritized and set up.
Nicolas Chavent lead in January 2010 the OpenStreetMap Humanitarian Responses 
in Haiti, making a few trips in Haiti with other GIS from the not yet 
incorporated NGO called HOT.  These first major Activtion add quite a great 
success and showed the capacity of NGO's to collaborate with UN agencies and 
humanitarian NGO's.
>From 2012, we started a serie of major Activations. I lead Activations for DR 
>Congo, Mali, Haiyan Philippines, West Africa Ebola, Vanuatu and the Nepal 
>earthquake last year.  Severin also lead a serie of Activations for forgotten 
>conflicts such as Central Africa an South Sudan.  This brought in a lot of 
>innovations, more and more confidence for humanitarian NGO's to work with 
>OpenStreetMap.
But badly at the same time there are conflicts inside HOT about orientations 
and some people that do not respect enough volunteers. New rules to control the 
Tasking manager, censorship of the HOT list, new rules that exclude the 'Bad 
frenchies' from the Activation lead, this is not the best when you start an 
Activation like this one for Haiti.
Nicolas, Severin, Jean-Guilhem, Fred and myself all worked in Haiti to develop 
the OSM community.  Fred Moine worked two years for the OIM in Port-au-Prince 
and continued collaboration with haitians to develop an Imagery acquisition 
project with Drones.  He did provide 3D imagery for various location at risk 
such as Riviere Grise and Canaan.

You and your friends Mikel have choose to not support Fred initiatives but to 
support later the development of Uviator.
In parrallel to HOT our group of quite experienced leaders of OS Responses are 
working to support a team of OSM responders in Port-au-Prince. Fred Moine, 
Xavier Tardieu and Pressler Jean are working closely with the Haiti Civil 
Security. We did work to enhance the list of Schools and hospitals in the South 
West peninsula of Haiti. The OSM african contributors from Bouake organize Task 
Manager jobs to focus on the most affected areas.  Our collegues in 
Port-au-Prince also had the opportunity last week to take an helico while the 
road was closed and take the first drone images of Jeremy to asssess the 
situation with the Haiti Civil Security. They will have new missions next week 
to cover more areas.
There are tensions and hunger in these towns where more then 80% of houses are 
damaged or destructed. The drones offer a great possibility to help to assess 
the damages and the Civil Security wants to try this option.
As Jean-Guilhem was saying yesterday (please stop to censor his emails) we will 
organise post-disaster tasks to evaluate damages.
Dale was criticizing before such projects.  As I told him after Haiyan, both 
OSM, Copernicus and others did evaluations using very bad aerial imagery due to 
bad atmospheric conditions.  There were surely limits to such evaluations. 
Imagery from Drone offer quite better quality. Plus we have to adapt to the 
reality and needs of each Activation.
In the best world we would work all together with respect and continue to 
progress to respond better and better to international humanitarian responses.
We have great experience with Activations and want to continue helping the 
international community and NGO's in such difficult situations.  We need to 
concentrate in the western part of the South-west peninsula where NGO's did not 
deliver yet water and food, where teams of doctors circulate rapidly in some 
points to take care only of more wounded persons. Cholera is spreading and 
there is a high risk of epidemy.
Mikel, Dale and other board members you decided to take different directions. 
If you are ready to work with respect, openess with us, to let the experienced 
volunteers continue to lead Activations and be on the DHN coordination room 
with our partners, tell us. 


regard
 
Pierre 
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Map4Haiti

2016-10-15 Thread john whelan 
Which begs the question why should HOT decide the priorities?

I note that we don't see many projects from local groups especially in the
high priority list and in this case Haiti the local language is French
which means it is more difficult for the local needs to be understood by
none francophone outsiders.

There are problems with the functioning of the government of Haiti but
there are functioning OSM locals but the best way to strengthen them is to
work with them.

Cheerio John

On 15 October 2016 at 08:03, Mikel Maron  wrote:

> Having two tasking managers for the same response area is of course going
> to create conflicts. There's no need at all to create jobs for Haiti on
> another tasking manager. Simply, communicate the needs for mapping,
> including AOI, need, etc, to the HOT activation team and it will be
> prioritized and set up.
>
> Mikel
>
> On Saturday, October 15, 2016, 4:51 AM, Severin Menard <
> severin.men...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> New update about our contribution to the OSM Map4Haiti mapping. Job #45
>  is almost done
> now and we will start mapping the rural areas within the hills of
> département of Grande-Anse, over the communes of Abricots, Dame-Marie,
> Chambellan, Moron, Anse d'Hainault and Grande Anse, located in the most
> affected areas by Hurricane Matthew (UNOSAT impact zone 1, with winds over
> 120 km/h) with job #64 ,
> continuing our systematic, consolidated effort over the hills (called
> mornes in Haiti).
>
> We hold an agile SOTM today here at Université Alassane Ouattara and will
> have a team of crisis mapping during the whole day to show students and
> people what it is. No newcomer will be invited to map on Haiti from Bouaké
> but invited to become a local mapper, raise his skills and join later when
> experienced enough.
>
> I hope this message is read by the HOT US coordination team, especially
> Dale Kunce:
>
> October 8 6:30 PM UTC I communicated about job #39
>  about pre-disaster
> mapping over Jeremie. On October 12, when our mapping is almost done on
> Central Jeremie, we figure out people are mapping on the area, due to a HOT
> US job #2228  created by Dale
> Kunce. We stopped and quickly detected all the mistakes done by very recent
> mappers.
>
> October 12 11:40 AM UTC I communicated on the hot list including regarding job
> #45  about mapping
> Jeremie’s hinterland. Later this day, HOT US job #2224
>  covering an area slightly smaller
> inside the one I made was created by Dale Kunce... As if there was no other
> places to be mapped in Haiti...
>
> So far, we created 7 jobs over Haiti, I communicated about them and they
> are all on the http://taches.francophonelibre.org frontpage, so it is not
> a big deal just to check them.
>
> @Dale I think HOT US created a curriculum to raise skills to become Crisis
> activators, I would advise you to read it one day when you have a bit of
> time. If ever it does not mention to read and communicate in the hot list
> during an activation, I would suggest to add it into the documentation. As
> an incorporated company, HOT US may have its own internal tools to organize
> its mapping, but the minimum is to communicate a bit on the hot list with
> the OSM community, who is the holder of this list (as everything with @
> openstreetmap.org).
>
> If you now create a new job covering job #45
> , I may try next
> time to create a job in the middle of the water, just to see if you jump on
> it.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Severin
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> HOT@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> HOT@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] Map4Haiti

2016-10-15 Thread Mikel Maron 
Having two tasking managers for the same response area is of course going to 
create conflicts. There's no need at all to create jobs for Haiti on another 
tasking manager. Simply, communicate the needs for mapping, including AOI, 
need, etc, to the HOT activation team and it will be prioritized and set up.

Mikel

On Saturday, October 15, 2016, 4:51 AM, Severin Menard 
 wrote:

 
Hi,

New update about ourcontribution to the OSM Map4Haiti mapping. Job#45 is almost 
done now and we will start mapping the rural areaswithin the hills of 
département of Grande-Anse, over the communes ofAbricots, Dame-Marie, 
Chambellan, Moron, Anse d'Hainault and GrandeAnse, located in the most affected 
areas by Hurricane Matthew (UNOSATimpact zone 1, with winds over 120 km/h) with 
job#64, continuing our systematic, consolidated effort over thehills (called 
mornes in Haiti).

We hold an agileSOTM today here at Université Alassane Ouattara and will have a 
teamof crisis mapping during the whole day to show students and peoplewhat it 
is. No newcomer will be invited to map on Haiti from Bouakébut invited to 
become a local mapper, raise his skills and join laterwhen experienced enough. 

I hope this messageis read by the HOT US coordination team, especially Dale 
Kunce: 

October 8 6:30 PM UTCI communicated about job #39about pre-disaster mapping 
over Jeremie. On October 12, whenour mapping is almost done on Central Jeremie, 
we figure out peopleare mapping on the area, due to a HOTUS job #2228 created 
by Dale Kunce. We stopped and quicklydetected all the mistakes done by very 
recent mappers. 

October 12 11:40 AMUTC I communicated on the hot list including regarding 
job#45 about mapping Jeremie’s hinterland. Later this day, HOTUS job #2224 
covering an area slightly smaller inside the one Imade was created by Dale 
Kunce... As if there was no other places to bemapped in Haiti... 

So far, we created 7jobs over Haiti, I communicated about them and they are all 
onthe http://taches.francophonelibre.org frontpage, so it is not a big deal 
justto check them.

@Dale I think HOT UScreated a curriculum to raise skills to become Crisis 
activators, Iwould advise you to read it one day when you have a bit of time. 
If ever it does not mention to read andcommunicate in the hot list during an 
activation, I would suggest toadd it into the documentation. As an incorporated 
company, HOT US may have its own internaltools to organize its mapping, but the 
minimum is to communicate abit on the hot list with the OSM community, who is 
the holder of thislist (as everything with @openstreetmap.org). 
If you now create anew job covering job#45, I may try next time to create a job 
in the middle of thewater, just to see if you jump on it. 



Sincerely,



Severin
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

 

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot