AW: AW: [slightly] off topic: SPFPRO on Win 8.1
It's hardly fair to judge THE by how well it simulates ISPF/PDF EDIT. Do you have any issues with its XEDIT compatibility? THE might be a good tool for everyone who needs/likes an XEDIT-Clone, but it is a bad choice for everyone who looks for an ISPF-like editor. The behavior is a little bit strange here and there and (last time I tried it) some line and primary commands were missing. IMHO. Bye, Michael -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
News for you aging Sysprogs... :-) It is not the mainframers who is aging while struggling to get new young guys/gals into mainframes. The farmers are also struggling here with this aging thing in South Africa and United States. Now read up those links before you retire! ;-) http://www.agriculture.com/news/business/is-agriculture-aging-too-quickly_5-ar34746 http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087391 etc. Happy reading. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Serialization without Enque
PLO CSDST and CSTST are *extremely* useful for queue and linked list manipulation in multi-ASID multi-TCB environments. The key to their use is to have a lock word counter that the caller increments and then prepares the new values in other regs. When it comes time to actually atomically update the lock word, you can redrive the structure manipulation logic if the CC indicates that the lock word value has changed, otherwise the other fields are updated atomically. For actual practical uses, it is well worth putting all this inside some sort of macro or small stub service as you do not want to have to code the guts of it each time. I also think the uptake of PLO would be greater if there were some decent example code in the manuals - for instance a client adding a request to the tail of the queue whilst a server is removing from the head. Rob Scott Rocket Software On 4 Nov 2013, at 03:58, Jon Perryman jperr...@pacbell.net wrote: I sure missed that one with the locks. PLO CDS does exactly what is wanted. It does 2 CS's within the locked instruction. PLO CSDST on the other hand only does a single CS followed by 2 ST's. Since 3 separate load instructions (not under PLO control) are required when not in contiguous storage, there is not any method that will guarantee the 3 values are consistent with the others. A counter as suggested by Peter Relson won't help either for this same reason. I can't think of a situation where PLO CSDST is useful. Can anyone describe a situation where it is useful? Jon Perryman. From: Rob Scott rsc...@rocketsoftware.com I think the OP stated that his code could hold locks - in which case the latch services cannot be used. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Serialization without Enque
On 4/11/2013 4:49 PM, Rob Scott wrote: I also think the uptake of PLO would be greater if there were some decent example code in the manuals - for instance a client adding a request to the tail of the queue whilst a server is removing from the head. Maybe somebody with expertise should blog about it with example code. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Cpc name variable in IEASYMxx
I knew HWNAME was not surfaced as a symbol, but some time ago we discovered a spooky symbol called HRDWNAME, which contained the value of HWNAME. We did not set it and could not find IBM did and after some searches through the internet we discovered that CA-90 software had started setting this at some upgrade, along with some others: VMUSER : The VM user id . LPARNAME : the LPAR name HRDWNAME : The hardware name from the IODF. SMFID: = SMFNAME OSLEVEL : The 6 character operating system level. Be aware of unsolicited 'help' from other parties. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Relson Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 13:06 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Cpc name variable in IEASYMxx The HWNAME value is not surfaced as a system symbol. You would have to create such a symbol yourself, such as by using the approach that Richard Peurifoy showed of having a SYSDEF statement for each HWNAME and setting the symbol that way. To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a customer requirement (including Share requirement) submitted asking for this. So if this is something that you want (at least going forward, it won't help you for current releases), you need to ask for it formally. And the more voices that are represented by the request, the more likely it is that it will happen. I would imagine that if HWNAME were surfaced as a symbol, so would be the other filtering value of LPARNAME (and quite possibly VMUSERID to complete the set). Peter Relson z/OS Core Technology Design -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Cpc name variable in IEASYMxx
Vernooij, CP wrote: I knew HWNAME was not surfaced as a symbol, but some time ago we discovered a spooky symbol called HRDWNAME, which contained the value of HWNAME. We did not set it and could not find IBM did and after some searches through the internet we discovered that CA-90 software had started setting this at some upgrade, along with some others: Ouch. VMUSER : The VM user id . Is it the same as VMUSERID as mentioned by Peter Relson? Be aware of unsolicited 'help' from other parties. Thanks for this head-up! Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Serialization without Enque
If you truly need a triple compare and swap then PLO will not help you. But if you need a disjoint double compare and swap, you use the compare-and-swap field as a counter and then you con do a compare swap and double store. Example: Fetch counter A PLO compare-and-fetch value1 CC0, go to A PLO compare-and-fetch value 2 CC0, go to A calculate new value1 and 2 Add one to fetched counter PLO CSDST fetched-counter new-fetched-counter, new value1, new-value2 CC0, go to A This requires that all processes that update value1 or value2 use PLO with the same lock word. On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 19:58:12 -0800 Jon Perryman jperr...@pacbell.net wrote: :I sure missed that one with the locks. : :PLO CDS does exactly what is wanted. It does 2 CS's within the locked instruction. : :PLO CSDST on the other hand only does a single CS followed by 2 ST's. Since 3 separate load instructions (not under PLO control) are required when not in contiguous storage, there is not any method that will guarantee the 3 values are consistent with the others. A counter as suggested by Peter Relson won't help either for this same reason. : : :I can't think of a situation where PLO CSDST is useful. Can anyone describe a situation where it is useful? : :Jon Perryman. : : : : : From: Rob Scott rsc...@rocketsoftware.com : : : :I think the OP stated that his code could hold locks - in which case the latch services cannot be used. : : :-- :For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, :send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: aggressive drivers was: Interesting? How _compilers_ are compromising application security
W dniu 2013-11-04 05:13, Jon Perryman pisze: Germany has solved this by sending you a photo with you in the driver seat and shows the license plate / time date / your speed. The photo was really good night time photo for the distance. Officer's just set the radar gun at the side of the autobahn and just leave. Here, someone would probably steal it. Jon Perryman. It's called photoradar. You (USA) also have such devices in use. It's very common in Europe. Rules vary by the country - some examples: In some countries such device has to be signed by the road sign. In some countries the photo can be taken from rear side (rear of the car is visible), so no driver picture is available. In some countries you don't get the photo, it will be shown in the court if you don't pay the ticket. In some countries (including U.S. AFAIK) there are more sophisticated devices which take you a photo (and recognize your plate) at the beginning of the length ansd the second device checks you at the end of the length, then avg speed is calculated. I was warned about such devices aroung Flagstaff by local folks. In France even highway ticket can be used as a proof you exceeded avg speed. In some countries you can claim the drivers name is Kumuondanam Bimba from Uzbekhistan and (if you don't fail) you won't get any fine. Which is obviously illegal. ;-) Same system (with automatic recognition of plates numbers) can be used to indentify stolen cars, cars without insurance policy, etc. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by jedynie jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste adresatem niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i moe by karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo, prosimy niezwocznie zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale usun t wiadomo wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00, fax +48 (22) 829 00 33, www.brebank.pl, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2013 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.555.904 zotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Cpc name variable in IEASYMxx
Yes, it is set to VMUSERID or to when not running under VM (although this might be defined by IBM). Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Elardus Engelbrecht Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 11:42 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Cpc name variable in IEASYMxx Vernooij, CP wrote: I knew HWNAME was not surfaced as a symbol, but some time ago we discovered a spooky symbol called HRDWNAME, which contained the value of HWNAME. We did not set it and could not find IBM did and after some searches through the internet we discovered that CA-90 software had started setting this at some upgrade, along with some others: Ouch. VMUSER : The VM user id . Is it the same as VMUSERID as mentioned by Peter Relson? Be aware of unsolicited 'help' from other parties. Thanks for this head-up! Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Is there currently a way to access MongoDB from z/OS LE languages?
In of6c884318.84e6f64a-on48257c16.00237d2b-48257c16.00257...@sg.ibm.com, on 11/01/2013 at 02:47 PM, Timothy Sipples sipp...@sg.ibm.com said: Now, I stipulate that there are many desirable capabilities. Operating on/with EBCDIC data is often useful. There are two ways to try to accomplish that goal: FSVO two larger than the standard value. False dichotomies are not helpful. 3. Select only those open source programs that meet your needs. 4. If there are open source programs that would meet you needs if specific facilities were available, either a. Submit an enhancement request b. Write and contribute code -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Linux on System z (IFL) and Spares
In 5273c6a0.6020...@us.ibm.com, on 11/01/2013 at 11:20 AM, John Eells ee...@us.ibm.com said: I am reliably told that there are in fact *two* MP effect curves. There is indeed a machine-level curve that reduces the capacity of the overall machine when an engine is added (or activated) to a CEC. I have not seen the numbers but I'm told this particular MP effect, which has to do with things related to shared hardware infrastructure within the machine, while nonzero, is relatively small in the grand scheme of things. Then there's the single-LPAR, i.e., single-operating system MP effect. This MP effect is far more pronounced than the one above, and it's the one I had always heard people talk about (up until today, that is). Yes, if every CP is dedicated. But isn't there a third MP effect when you share a processor across LPAR's? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation
In cae1xxdfgcowtd10wjbnrrp9rkikxca3uxqijgud49ffawqj...@mail.gmail.com, on 11/03/2013 at 02:42 PM, John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com said: I will limit myself to noting that 1) an SRB cannot attach a subtask It can, however, create and schedule an IRB, which in turn can attach a subtask. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: ISPF statistics
In 138493.74522.yahoomail...@web181004.mail.ne1.yahoo.com, on 11/01/2013 at 12:18 PM, Jon Perryman jperr...@pacbell.net said: In z/OS 2.1 REXX, it will most likely use physical records on the disk as long as they don't exceed REXX variable size. As for the user data, it will most likely be 0's. That would surprise me; I would expect EXECIO to create members with no user dat, not with user data containing zero. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: ISPF statistics
Sure but not wirh blksize zero. בתאריך 30 באוק 2013 16:38, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com כתב: On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 12:58:52 +0200, Itschak Mugzach wrote: ISPF statistics are only maintained by ISPF and some other utilities (like PDSMAN and ISPF OPT 3.5). RECFM=U libraries are MVS load libraries (not ISPF ones) and the directory entry holds some of the module attributes. It's certainly possible to have DSORG=PS,RECFM=U data set that does not contain load modules. I've used them. I believe it's also possible to have DSORG=PO,DSNTYPE=PDS,RECFM=U with content other than load modules, but ISPF refuses to recognize this fact. I don't know whether DSORG=PO,DSNTYPE=LIBRARY,RECFM=U can have content other than program objects. I understand no PDSE can contain a mixture of program objects and other members. It has been announced that in 2.1 Rexx EXECIO will support RECFM=U. When we get 2.1 I'll need to experiment to discover the restrictions. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Assembling SHOWMVS errors
In ofbd3d957b.fbfb0e6b-on88257c15.0074f88a-88257c15.00752...@ucdmc.ucdavis.edu, on 10/31/2013 at 02:19 PM, John Norgauer john.norga...@ucdmc.ucdavis.edu said: I am trying to assemble SHOWMVS and am getting lots of undefined op codes. 1. What's the MACHINE option? 2. What's in the README? 3. Do the undefined opcodes begin with any IBM prefixes, e.g., IEC, IHA? // DD DSN=SYS1.AMODGEN,DISP=SHR What about MODGEN? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Serialization without Enque
PLO CDS does exactly what is wanted. I presume this was a typo and should have been PLO DCS (double compare and swap) PLO CSDST (and CSST and CSTST) have limitless potential exploitations. It all depends on what your requirements are. Suppose you have N (2) separate fields all of which need to be serialized together and the happy circumstance is that you never need to update more than 2 of them together. A counter (subject of the CS) and store(s) may be used to do the updates. Since 3 separate load instructions I wonder if a double compare and swap can guarantee the consistency of 3 load instructions. To the extent that a free queue protocol is analogous, you have to use a sequence number to get that right. (not under PLO control) Why is that a requirement? It is far from unheard of to use PLO Compare-and-load Peter Relson z/OS Core Technology Design -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Serialization without Enque
I have used PLO almost exclusively for serialization in multi-address space, multi-du code for almost 10 years. I use all 6 operations. Since everything I write is 64 bit mode, I generally use the +2 variant (64 bit length) but I like using the +3 variant (128 bit length) for some really cool stuff. As Rob pointed out, The key to their use is to have a lock word counter that the caller increments and then prepares the new values in other regs.. But I add that the real key is designing the application to use PLO for serialization which is much more than just writing macros to do the guts of the processes (though I almost always use macros). Consider this example. I have a singly linked chain of 64 bit cell addresses on quad word boundaries. The chain pointers are a quad word at the start of the cell. The first double word is the head of the active chain. The second double word is the head of the free chain. The first quad word of each cell is a double word pointer to the next active entry followed by a double word pointer to the next free entry. The chain has a quad word counter on a quad word boundary. The first double word of the counter is a change count. The second double word is an active element count. The algorithm always adds new cells to the head of the list. I can add a new cell by using a LMG to load the counters, increment each counter by 1, compute the new head, compute the old head's new previous and then use a Compare and swap and double store 128 bit to add the new entry. Since every update increments the first double word counter by 1, the process only completes if no other process updated the counter. If the counter has changed, it needs to re-drive. By adding entries to the head, I can also have code simultaneously searching the chain while entries are added. Of course, if the new head is added before the search starts, it won't be found. But that's no different than using a lock. If the search acquires the lock before the add, it won't be found either. I can even add an element that requires a search for one that has already been added. In this case, I load the counters before the search. I search the chain. If not found, I increment the counter and perform the add. If the add fails, I have to re-drive the search. I can also delete entries from the chain. When I find the entry to be deleted, I save its previous entry. I can adjust the counts, re-compute the chain pointers and do a Compare and Swap and triple store to delete the entry and add it to the fee chain. I can still search the chain but I'll probably need to do a Compare and load to do so. I can avoid the PLO compare and load by not actually deleting the cell but using the low half byte of the active next pointer as a deleted flag. But that has disadvantages as well. This also adds a little more logic to the add, since I now need to add using the free chain if one exits or an add acquiring a new cell. There are a lot of details not given here for brevity. This example also uses an unordered single linked list to simplify the example. But properly designed PLO operations can be performed on ordered doubly linked lists as well. When I read the Principles of Operations on the Z/EC12 transactional execution facility, I think strongly of a PLO on steroids. The point is that PLO can almost be used exclusively for serialization. As far as overhead, I have done a lot of testing and the key is the proper choice of the lock word and the algorithm. In my research, the throughput advantages of PLO far outweigh its overhead. I would love some time with the transactional execution facility. From my reading, it eliminates the need for any serialization other than PLO or transactional execution. Though I understand that IBM has chosen a redrive limit as the determining factor as to whether to fall back to a lock. I believe the only limit to using PLO for serialization is the imagination. Kenneth -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Rob Scott Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 2:49 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque PLO CSDST and CSTST are *extremely* useful for queue and linked list manipulation in multi-ASID multi-TCB environments. The key to their use is to have a lock word counter that the caller increments and then prepares the new values in other regs. When it comes time to actually atomically update the lock word, you can redrive the structure manipulation logic if the CC indicates that the lock word value has changed, otherwise the other fields are updated atomically. For actual practical uses, it is well worth putting all this inside some sort of macro or small stub service as you do not want to have to code the guts of it each time. I also think the uptake of PLO would be greater if there were some decent example code in the manuals - for instance a client adding a request to the tail of the queue whilst a
Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation
On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 16:15:56 -0800 Jon Perryman jperr...@pacbell.net wrote: :I think Itschak is saying that SRB's can't do I/O, therefore they can't write files to embed a virus or read confidential data. I think he's under the impression that SRB's can't get access to everything they desire. SRB's certainly can do I/O - they just need to do it at the metal level. -- Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Linux on System z (IFL) and Spares
Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: Yes, if every CP is dedicated. But isn't there a third MP effect when you share a processor across LPAR's? Yes, there is a 3th MP effect for such sharing. When workload is heavy, this is unavoidable. Think about giving icecreams to kiddies. No problem if you have 1 kid. Scratching heads when you have more kids. Who do you give what? More headscratching and time wasting if these delicasies are different. To who are you giving vanilla and to who the choc one? Of course, the kids can't decide, YOU decide. They cannot wait, while you are having MP effect to decide. Now if you want both or more kids to lick ONE icecream, well... they can take turns, but this is going to be difficult... ;-D More trouble if you decide to eat them (IPL the LPAR with the most CPU while others have to do with the few CPUs) before them (crying) kids! ;-D Above is just a sample description of MP effect as explained to me by a helpful IBMer about 20 years ago. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation
Since an SRB can do a SCHEDIRB it can do whatever it likes. SRBs were designed for authorized code to overcome restrictions. If you're authorized, the gates open. Kenneth -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Binyamin Dissen Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 7:01 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 16:15:56 -0800 Jon Perryman jperr...@pacbell.net wrote: :I think Itschak is saying that SRB's can't do I/O, therefore they can't write files to embed a virus or read confidential data. I think he's under the impression that SRB's can't get access to everything they desire. SRB's certainly can do I/O - they just need to do it at the metal level. -- Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Automate Flash Copy : DS8800
If you're talking about just flashing datasets or volumes for local purposes (not involving replication), then that's a different (and simpler) story. But because you mention TPCR, my presumption is that you're talking about a DR replication scenario. By automate I take you to mean that you want a flash to be initiated in response to either a certain time or a certain event, other than replication breaking itself. E.G. you want to schedule an I2 to H2 flash at 3:05 am tomorrow for part of your DR testing so you don't have to get up and click the button yourself. As far as I can tell, there's no way to do that. Of course there is also DSCLI and the TSO utilities. I'm certain that there are DSCLI command(s) to initiate the flash--in theory you can do everything from DSCLI without TPCR. But the nomenclature for the volume sets is apparently different between DSCLI and TPCR. And a simple single click in TPCR may end up being multiple DSCLI commands. But DSCLI is probably where I'd start looking. Scott Chapman On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 23:11:45 +0530, Jake anderson justmainfra...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, Is there an opportunity to automate the flash copy in DS8800 using Tivoli storage productivity center for replication ? Jake -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: zIIP simulation
I'm curious. Some of the posters have indicated that their products avoid requesting zIIP services if there are no zIIPs. If any care to share, is that a decision made at the time they start? Is that decision revisited? When the decision is made, by what fields is it made? - number of currently online zIIPs 0 (CSD_Number_Online_zIIPs, a programming interface) - is a zIIP currently installed (SVT_ByLPAR_zIIP_NowInstalled, a programming interface, within SVT_zIIPzAAP_Flags) - is a zIIP currently installed or could be installed later by dynamic CPU addition (SVT_ByLPAR_zIIPInConfiguration, not a programming interface but could be made one) - a reason code from IWM4EOCT (to get that you'd have had to go at least somewhat down the enclave path already) In the general case, even if there are currently no installed (or online) zIIPs there could be later. We do intend to make SVT_CpuProjection a programming interface (and its containing byte when used with that bit name only). The update to the data areas book and to the SVT mapping macro to confirm that likely will not be made in service. But in practice I suggest that that not inhibit you from checking that bit in all supported releasesif it would benefit you to do so. Peter Relson z/OS Core Technology Design -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: ISPF statistics
On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 14:47:50 +0200, Itschak Mugzach wrote: Sure but not wirh blksize zero. I'd expect that SDB would operate as usual and convert a declared BLKSIZE of zero to (perhaps suboptimal) 32760. It has been announced that in 2.1 Rexx EXECIO will support RECFM=U. When we get 2.1 I'll need to experiment to discover the restrictions. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation
It is worth recalling Mr Perryman's name for this thread, viz., Security exposure of zXXP. His riposte---It is not responsive---to my last post employs a rhetorical device that was familiar to the Alexandrian Greeks. In answer to my contention that position 1457 and position 1458 in a Kama Sutra of programming tactics have the same orthopedic risks his rebuttal was that position 1457 aggravates scoliosis. My point---I made it in deliberately bald language---was that the security 'exposures' associated with the availability of SRBs are not worse for zIIPs and zAAPs than they are for unspecialized CPs. As Shane Ginnane noted in another context, auditors, however limited their technical grasp, can and do read. I foresee yet another addition to their standard queries: o Does your z/OS or z/VM installation have zIIPs, zAAPs, IFLs, . . . installed? o If so list the uses that are made of them, identifying each application and each ISV involved. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: aggressive drivers was: Interesting? How _compilers_ are compromising application security
On 2013-11-04, at 03:47, R.S. wrote: In France even highway ticket can be used as a proof you exceeded avg speed. For a recently constructed turnpike in Colorado, this practice was specifically prohibited by the enabling legislation. I understand that road is operated privately, by a German company. (Nope. Google tells me Portuguese.) -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Serialization without Enque
Thanks Kenneth. Excellent example. I didn't consider that the load for the counter must be first to cause the serialization. Jon Perryman. From: Kenneth Wilkerson redb...@austin.rr.com I have used PLO almost exclusively for serialization in multi-address space, multi-du code for almost 10 years. I use all 6 operations. Since everything I write is 64 bit mode, I generally use the +2 variant (64 bit length) but I like using the +3 variant (128 bit length) for some really cool stuff. As Rob pointed out, The key to their use is to have a lock word counter that the caller increments and then prepares the new values in other regs.. But I add that the real key is designing the application to use PLO for serialization which is much more than just writing macros to do the guts of the processes (though I almost always use macros). Consider this example. I have a singly linked chain of 64 bit cell addresses on quad word boundaries. The chain pointers are a quad word at the start of the cell. The first double word is the head of the active chain. The second double word is the head of the free chain. The first quad word of each cell is a double word pointer to the next active entry followed by a double word pointer to the next free entry. The chain has a quad word counter on a quad word boundary. The first double word of the counter is a change count. The second double word is an active element count. The algorithm always adds new cells to the head of the list. I can add a new cell by using a LMG to load the counters, increment each counter by 1, compute the new head, compute the old head's new previous and then use a Compare and swap and double store 128 bit to add the new entry. Since every update increments the first double word counter by 1, the process only completes if no other process updated the counter. If the counter has changed, it needs to re-drive. By adding entries to the head, I can also have code simultaneously searching the chain while entries are added. Of course, if the new head is added before the search starts, it won't be found. But that's no different than using a lock. If the search acquires the lock before the add, it won't be found either. I can even add an element that requires a search for one that has already been added. In this case, I load the counters before the search. I search the chain. If not found, I increment the counter and perform the add. If the add fails, I have to re-drive the search. I can also delete entries from the chain. When I find the entry to be deleted, I save its previous entry. I can adjust the counts, re-compute the chain pointers and do a Compare and Swap and triple store to delete the entry and add it to the fee chain. I can still search the chain but I'll probably need to do a Compare and load to do so. I can avoid the PLO compare and load by not actually deleting the cell but using the low half byte of the active next pointer as a deleted flag. But that has disadvantages as well. This also adds a little more logic to the add, since I now need to add using the free chain if one exits or an add acquiring a new cell. There are a lot of details not given here for brevity. This example also uses an unordered single linked list to simplify the example. But properly designed PLO operations can be performed on ordered doubly linked lists as well. When I read the Principles of Operations on the Z/EC12 transactional execution facility, I think strongly of a PLO on steroids. The point is that PLO can almost be used exclusively for serialization. As far as overhead, I have done a lot of testing and the key is the proper choice of the lock word and the algorithm. In my research, the throughput advantages of PLO far outweigh its overhead. I would love some time with the transactional execution facility. From my reading, it eliminates the need for any serialization other than PLO or transactional execution. Though I understand that IBM has chosen a redrive limit as the determining factor as to whether to fall back to a lock. I believe the only limit to using PLO for serialization is the imagination. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers.;-) Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 02:41:39 -0600 From: elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za Subject: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU News for you aging Sysprogs... :-) It is not the mainframers who is aging while struggling to get new young guys/gals into mainframes. The farmers are also struggling here with this aging thing in South Africa and United States. Now read up those links before you retire! ;-) http://www.agriculture.com/news/business/is-agriculture-aging-too-quickly_5-ar34746 http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087391 etc. Happy reading. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Serialization without Enque
Thanks Binyamin. Also a great example but it brings me to another question. What is the advantage of using PLO compare and fetch? Is it just saving CPU time in the case where the counter has changed? Is there another advantage that I'm not thinking about? Jon Perryman. From: Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com If you truly need a triple compare and swap then PLO will not help you. But if you need a disjoint double compare and swap, you use the compare-and-swap field as a counter and then you con do a compare swap and double store. Example: Fetch counter A PLO compare-and-fetch value1 CC0, go to A PLO compare-and-fetch value 2 CC0, go to A calculate new value1 and 2 Add one to fetched counter PLO CSDST fetched-counter new-fetched-counter, new value1, new-value2 CC0, go to A -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
That's not 100% true... Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers. There's a program in North Carolina that's teaching TSO, Cobol, JCL, etc... and graduates are being hired by businesses that are using mainframe computer systems. We in south Florida were thinking of offering the same programs... *George Rodriguez* *Specialist II - IT Solutions* *IT Enterprise Applications* *PX - 47652* *(561) 357-7652 (office)* *(561) 707-3496 (mobile)* *School District of Palm Beach County* *3348 Forest Hill Blvd.* *Room B-251* *West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869* *Florida's Only A-Rated Urban District For Eight Consecutive Years* On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com wrote: Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers.;-) Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 02:41:39 -0600 From: elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za Subject: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU News for you aging Sysprogs... :-) It is not the mainframers who is aging while struggling to get new young guys/gals into mainframes. The farmers are also struggling here with this aging thing in South Africa and United States. Now read up those links before you retire! ;-) http://www.agriculture.com/news/business/is-agriculture-aging-too-quickly_5-ar34746 http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087391 etc. Happy reading. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- * *Good Sports http://www.palmbeachschools.org/ten/goodsports.asp: *Covering the best in Palm Beach County School Sports, airing nightly at 7 p.m. on Comcast 234 and ATT UVerse 99.* *Disclaimer: *Under Florida law, e-mail addresses are public records. If you do not want your e-mail address released in response to a public records request, do not send electronic mail to this entity. Instead, contact this office by phone or in writing. * * * * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
Dave Salt wrote: Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers.;-) Because they're using ServerFarms for breeding bugs? ;-D Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
On 11/4/2013 8:58 AM, George Rodriguez wrote: That's not 100% true... Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers. There's a program in North Carolina that's teaching TSO, Cobol, JCL, etc... and graduates are being hired by businesses that are using mainframe computer systems. You missed the pun: 'mainfarmers', not 'mainframers' ~~~ -Steve Comstock We in south Florida were thinking of offering the same programs... *George Rodriguez* *Specialist II - IT Solutions* *IT Enterprise Applications* *PX - 47652* *(561) 357-7652 (office)* *(561) 707-3496 (mobile)* *School District of Palm Beach County* *3348 Forest Hill Blvd.* *Room B-251* *West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869* *Florida's Only A-Rated Urban District For Eight Consecutive Years* On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com wrote: Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers.;-) Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 02:41:39 -0600 From: elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za Subject: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU News for you aging Sysprogs... :-) It is not the mainframers who is aging while struggling to get new young guys/gals into mainframes. The farmers are also struggling here with this aging thing in South Africa and United States. Now read up those links before you retire! ;-) http://www.agriculture.com/news/business/is-agriculture-aging-too-quickly_5-ar34746 http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087391 etc. Happy reading. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
george.rodrig...@palmbeachschools.org has shared something with you
Article about the program... http://enterprisesystemsmedia.com/article/a-new-generation-of-mainframe-skills-north-carolina-central-university-paves-the-way#.UnfKILWkvaY.email --- This message was sent by george.rodrig...@palmbeachschools.org via http://addthis.com. Please note that AddThis does not verify email addresses. To stop receiving any emails from AddThis, please visit: http://www.addthis.com/privacy/email-opt-out?e=72OTDJdDlw.TALoCkx2OHZ8cjECPD9QLnhs -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
I happen to have some personal knowledge about the shortage of farmers. Two of my uncles owned their own farms in southern Idaho. They didn't grow rich, but they supported their families in very comfortable style. They both had kids including one boy each. None of the kids in either family had any interest in farming. Both boys became engineers. The farms were eventually sold with proceeds going--where else?--to the kids. It was not about training. Farmers' kids--especially boys--get saturation training as they grow up. It's about desire. In the words of the esteemed Yogi Berra: If people don't want to come out to the ballpark, how are you going to stop them? . . JO.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 626-302-7535 Office 323-715-0595 Mobile jo.skip.robin...@sce.com From: Steve Comstock st...@trainersfriend.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 11/04/2013 08:03 AM Subject:Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU On 11/4/2013 8:58 AM, George Rodriguez wrote: That's not 100% true... Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers. There's a program in North Carolina that's teaching TSO, Cobol, JCL, etc... and graduates are being hired by businesses that are using mainframe computer systems. You missed the pun: 'mainfarmers', not 'mainframers' ~~~ -Steve Comstock We in south Florida were thinking of offering the same programs... *George Rodriguez* *Specialist II - IT Solutions* *IT Enterprise Applications* *PX - 47652* *(561) 357-7652 (office)* *(561) 707-3496 (mobile)* *School District of Palm Beach County* *3348 Forest Hill Blvd.* *Room B-251* *West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869* *Florida's Only A-Rated Urban District For Eight Consecutive Years* On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com wrote: Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers.;-) Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 02:41:39 -0600 From: elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za Subject: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU News for you aging Sysprogs... :-) It is not the mainframers who is aging while struggling to get new young guys/gals into mainframes. The farmers are also struggling here with this aging thing in South Africa and United States. Now read up those links before you retire! ;-) http://www.agriculture.com/news/business/is-agriculture-aging-too-quickly_5-ar34746 http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087391 etc. Happy reading. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation
On 4 Nov 2013 06:30:46 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: It is worth recalling Mr Perryman's name for this thread, viz., Security exposure of zXXP. His riposte---It is not responsive---to my last post employs a rhetorical device that was familiar to the Alexandrian Greeks. In answer to my contention that position 1457 and position 1458 in a Kama Sutra of programming tactics have the same orthopedic risks his rebuttal was that position 1457 aggravates scoliosis. My point---I made it in deliberately bald language---was that the security 'exposures' associated with the availability of SRBs are not worse for zIIPs and zAAPs than they are for unspecialized CPs. As Shane Ginnane noted in another context, auditors, however limited their technical grasp, can and do read. I foresee yet another addition to their standard queries: Is the code that can be made zIIP and zAAP eligible, code that must run under an SRB anyway? Is there is code that is currently running unauthorized, problem state under a TCB that would be eligible if it were running under an SRB? For those vendors that have done zIIP / zAAP enablement, did this involve move code from being unauthorized under a TCB to authorized under an SRB? Clark Morris o Does your z/OS or z/VM installation have zIIPs, zAAPs, IFLs, . . . installed? o If so list the uses that are made of them, identifying each application and each ISV involved. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation
zAAP's are indeed used by Java code running on a TCB. However, to my knowledge, it does not follow that: With zAAP on zIIP, they must be using SRB's. IBM determines the rules in this regard. To me (as both an ISV and System z developer), IBM allowing more code to run on specialty engines is a VERY good thing. It continues the controlled reduction in the cost of System z ownership. As a side benefit, it has also promoted innovation within the ISV community. For example, by zIIP enabling our integration products, some of our customers were able to deploy very cost effective solutions that would not have been possible otherwise. This has allowed them to expand their System z workload. I don't think customers mind using (and paying for) high-value MIPS for high-value apps. However, everything else (e.g., integration and plumbing) should be run on specialty engines (within the bounds of IBM's rules). Russ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
Skip, I totally agree, grew up in Indiana , saw similar situations. I think its a bit generational...if there is such a word. When you have to work hard for what you have, there is a sense of appreciation. Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ On Monday, November 4, 2013 11:40 AM, Skip Robinson jo.skip.robin...@sce.com wrote: I happen to have some personal knowledge about the shortage of farmers. Two of my uncles owned their own farms in southern Idaho. They didn't grow rich, but they supported their families in very comfortable style. They both had kids including one boy each. None of the kids in either family had any interest in farming. Both boys became engineers. The farms were eventually sold with proceeds going--where else?--to the kids. It was not about training. Farmers' kids--especially boys--get saturation training as they grow up. It's about desire. In the words of the esteemed Yogi Berra: If people don't want to come out to the ballpark, how are you going to stop them? . . JO.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 626-302-7535 Office 323-715-0595 Mobile jo.skip.robin...@sce.com From: Steve Comstock st...@trainersfriend.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 11/04/2013 08:03 AM Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU On 11/4/2013 8:58 AM, George Rodriguez wrote: That's not 100% true... Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers. There's a program in North Carolina that's teaching TSO, Cobol, JCL, etc... and graduates are being hired by businesses that are using mainframe computer systems. You missed the pun: 'mainfarmers', not 'mainframers' ~~~ -Steve Comstock We in south Florida were thinking of offering the same programs... *George Rodriguez* *Specialist II - IT Solutions* *IT Enterprise Applications* *PX - 47652* *(561) 357-7652 (office)* *(561) 707-3496 (mobile)* *School District of Palm Beach County* *3348 Forest Hill Blvd.* *Room B-251* *West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869* *Florida's Only A-Rated Urban District For Eight Consecutive Years* On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com wrote: Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers. ;-) Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 02:41:39 -0600 From: elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za Subject: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU News for you aging Sysprogs... :-) It is not the mainframers who is aging while struggling to get new young guys/gals into mainframes. The farmers are also struggling here with this aging thing in South Africa and United States. Now read up those links before you retire! ;-) http://www.agriculture.com/news/business/is-agriculture-aging-too-quickly_5-ar34746 http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087391 etc. Happy reading. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
Yeah, but farmers have their own dating site www.farmersonly.com. Never seen one of those for system programmers. --- scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 09:26:28 -0800 Skip, I totally agree, grew up in Indiana , saw similar situations. I think its a bit generational...if there is such a word. When you have to work hard for what you have, there is a sense of appreciation. Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ On Monday, November 4, 2013 11:40 AM, Skip Robinson jo.skip.robin...@sce.com wrote: I happen to have some personal knowledge about the shortage of farmers. Two of my uncles owned their own farms in southern Idaho. They didn't grow rich, but they supported their families in very comfortable style. They both had kids including one boy each. None of the kids in either family had any interest in farming. Both boys became engineers. The farms were eventually sold with proceeds going--where else?--to the kids. It was not about training. Farmers' kids--especially boys--get saturation training as they grow up. It's about desire. In the words of the esteemed Yogi Berra: If people don't want to come out to the ballpark, how are you going to stop them? . . JO.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 626-302-7535 Office 323-715-0595 Mobile jo.skip.robin...@sce.com From: Steve Comstock st...@trainersfriend.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 11/04/2013 08:03 AM Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU On 11/4/2013 8:58 AM, George Rodriguez wrote: That's not 100% true... Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers. There's a program in North Carolina that's teaching TSO, Cobol, JCL, etc... and graduates are being hired by businesses that are using mainframe computer systems. You missed the pun: 'mainfarmers', not 'mainframers' ~~~ -Steve Comstock We in south Florida were thinking of offering the same programs... *George Rodriguez* *Specialist II - IT Solutions* *IT Enterprise Applications* *PX - 47652* *(561) 357-7652 (office)* *(561) 707-3496 (mobile)* *School District of Palm Beach County* *3348 Forest Hill Blvd.* *Room B-251* *West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869* *Florida's Only A-Rated Urban District For Eight Consecutive Years* On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com wrote: Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers. ;-) Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 02:41:39 -0600 From: elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za Subject: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU News for you aging Sysprogs... :-) It is not the mainframers who is aging while struggling to get new young guys/gals into mainframes. The farmers are also struggling here with this aging thing in South Africa and United States. Now read up those links before you retire! ;-) http://www.agriculture.com/news/business/is-agriculture-aging-too-quickly_5-ar34746 http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087391 etc. Happy reading. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
using ./Configure to generate listing files
I am attempting to build openssl on the mainframe. Can I set up my ./Configure OS390 line to generate a listing file for every module compiled? I need something like this OS/390,c99:-O -Wc,ascii -Wc,LIST(fname.LIST) -DB_ENDIAN -DNO_SYS_PARAM_H -D_ALL_SOURCE -DASCII -D_XOPEN_SOURCE_EXTENDED=1 -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=500 -D_POSIX_SOURCE -D_OPEN_THREADS=2 -DOPENSSL_EXPORT_VAR_AS_FUNCTION::-DPTHREAD:::THIRTY_TWO_BIT DES_PTR DES_UNROLL MD2_CHAR RC4_INDEX RC4_CHAR BF_PTR:::, where the fname on the LIST option is whatever the name of the currently compiling module is. Is this not the way to do this? Is there a better way? Janet Graff -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Serialization without Enque
Yes, it is possible that the updates are not performed in any order. However, it is guaranteed that the updates are only performed if the swap can be done. Therefore, I use a simple rule. If the number of instructions needed to compute the new chain pointers are small (as is the case in my example). I don't incur the overhead of doing the extra 2 PLO (Compare and Load) operations. I simply re-drive the operation as shown in Binyamin's example. Even with the PLO Compare and Load, there is no guarantee the swap will succeed. It just lessens the likelihood. So the decision point is whether the overhead of 2 additional PLO instructions is less than the overhead of a re-drive. This can only be determined with testing. You can determine this by using a CS to update a counter for every re-drive. You already have an operation count, so you can then easily determine the percentage of re-drives. In my experience, even in very active chains, the PLO serialization process will incur a very small number of re-drives (much less than 1 percent). But only testing can reveal that. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Binyamin Dissen Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 11:15 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque My understanding is with multi-threading it is possible that the updates to the fields may be out of order and thus it is possible to fetch the updated counter with the unupdated value1. PLO serializes it. On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 07:46:51 -0800 Jon Perryman jperr...@pacbell.net wrote: :Thanks Binyamin. Also a great example but it brings me to another question. What is the advantage of using PLO compare and fetch? Is it just saving CPU time in the case where the counter has changed? Is there another advantage that I'm not thinking about? : :Jon Perryman. : : : : : From: Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com : : : :If you truly need a triple compare and swap then PLO will not help you. But if :you need a disjoint double compare and swap, you use the compare-and-swap :field as a counter and then you con do a compare swap and double store. : :Example: : : Fetch counter :A PLO compare-and-fetch value1 : CC0, go to A : PLO compare-and-fetch value 2 : CC0, go to A : calculate new value1 and 2 : Add one to fetched counter : PLO CSDST fetched-counter new-fetched-counter, new value1, new-value2 : CC0, go to A : : : : :-- :For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, :send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Timing from HMC
I have a question about the timers in the HMC and the CLOCKxx member. I have a single z/10 CPC with an HMC. I have 3 different LPARS running. I know I can configure the HMC to stay in sync with an NTP server. I do not however have a Sysplex Timer. So correct me if I am wrong. Since I don't have a SYSPLEX timer, I cannot use the ETRMODE, ETRZONE, and ETRDELTA. But I can use the STPMODE, STPZONE and TIMEDELTA? Now am I correct in stating that these are only done at IPL time of the LPAR? Or does it automatically keep the time up to date if it gets out of sync with the TIMEDELTA. Also if it is only available at IPL time, then I should be able to write an Assembler program to go get the time from the HMC and do a SET CLOCK command. Any help would be appreciated. Had a little fiasco on Sun. morning! ! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
BBC News - IBM PC pioneer William C Lowe dies, aged 72
BBC News - IBM PC pioneer William C Lowe dies, aged 72 Guess the roll-out was at an Interim SHARE in May of '81 in Phoenix Hilton. If you had a question, usually one of the developers was close at hand. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation
What rhetoric? It's a fact that if any vendor other than IBM moved JAVA to zIIP, it would have been done with SRB's and JAVA would run authorized. It's a fact that IBM moved JAVA to zAAP because of $$ and customer demand. Why would vendors be any different with that desire for their end user programming languages. Jon Perryman. From: John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com His riposte---It is not responsive---to my last post employs a rhetorical device that was familiar to the Alexandrian Greeks. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Timing from HMC
W dniu 2013-11-04 18:40, Pesce, Andy pisze: I have a question about the timers in the HMC and the CLOCKxx member. I have a single z/10 CPC with an HMC. I have 3 different LPARS running. I know I can configure the HMC to stay in sync with an NTP server. I do not however have a Sysplex Timer. So correct me if I am wrong. Since I don't have a SYSPLEX timer, I cannot use the ETRMODE, ETRZONE, and ETRDELTA. But I can use the STPMODE, STPZONE and TIMEDELTA? Now am I correct in stating that these are only done at IPL time of the LPAR? Or does it automatically keep the time up to date if it gets out of sync with the TIMEDELTA. Also if it is only available at IPL time, then I should be able to write an Assembler program to go get the time from the HMC and do a SET CLOCK command. Any help would be appreciated. Had a little fiasco on Sun. morning! ! 1. Sysplex Timer is history nowadays. AFAIK z10 was the last machine generation able to connect to the Timer. 2. Nowadays there is STP, it's available in in EC12, z196, z10, z9 (not sure about z990), but it's paid option. 3. In order to use time from HMC, automatic daylight avings adjustments, external NTP server one has to enable STP (still paid). 4. STP* statements in CLOCKxx when STP is unavailable ends with WTOR. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by jedynie jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste adresatem niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i moe by karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo, prosimy niezwocznie zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale usun t wiadomo wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00, fax +48 (22) 829 00 33, www.brebank.pl, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2013 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.555.904 zotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Timing from HMC
Use SIMETRID HTH, snip I have a question about the timers in the HMC and the CLOCKxx member. I have a single z/10 CPC with an HMC. I have 3 different LPARS running. I know I can configure the HMC to stay in sync with an NTP server. I do not however have a Sysplex Timer. So correct me if I am wrong. Since I don't have a SYSPLEX timer, I cannot use the ETRMODE, ETRZONE, and ETRDELTA. But I can use the STPMODE, STPZONE and TIMEDELTA? Now am I correct in stating that these are only done at IPL time of the LPAR? Or does it automatically keep the time up to date if it gets out of sync with the TIMEDELTA. Also if it is only available at IPL time, then I should be able to write an Assembler program to go get the time from the HMC and do a SET CLOCK command. Any help would be appreciated. Had a little fiasco on Sun. morning! ! /snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
To have an adequate supply of new sysprogs to replace those retiring, the compensation needs to be more attractive than it is currently. Most of the younger people in IT see mainframe technology as a dead end. They might not know when it will expire, but they think it will die off sooner than it will happen to Linux or Windows. So they will choose to immerse themselves in the newer technology until the compensation for a mainframe sysprog becomes too great to ignore. For farmers, the issue is more about inheritance. In the English system of Primogeniture, the eldest son inherited the estate and the other siblings were expected to make their own way in the world. Most Americans would see this as grossly unfair. Much of a farmer's wealth is tied up in the land. If he has two sons and two daughters, each one is expecting a quarter share of that wealth as their inheritance. So even if one of the sons is inclined to follow in Dad's footsteps and continue farming, he starts off in debt to his siblings. The debt service makes the farm unable to produce enough income to support the farmer-son. So an easier way out is to sell the farm and split the proceeds among all the children, with the farm probably ending up in the hands of corporate owners, who will then hire laborers to work the land. This trend to corporate ownership at the expense of the family farm has been going on for decades. John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
They said enough -- just because some are doesn't mean there's enough! - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -Original Message- From: George Rodriguez george.rodrig...@palmbeachschools.org Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 10:58:04 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers That's not 100% true... Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers. There's a program in North Carolina that's teaching TSO, Cobol, JCL, etc... and graduates are being hired by businesses that are using mainframe computer systems. We in south Florida were thinking of offering the same programs... *George Rodriguez* *Specialist II - IT Solutions* *IT Enterprise Applications* *PX - 47652* *(561) 357-7652 (office)* *(561) 707-3496 (mobile)* *School District of Palm Beach County* *3348 Forest Hill Blvd.* *Room B-251* *West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869* *Florida's Only A-Rated Urban District For Eight Consecutive Years* On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com wrote: Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers.;-) Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 02:41:39 -0600 From: elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za Subject: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU News for you aging Sysprogs... :-) It is not the mainframers who is aging while struggling to get new young guys/gals into mainframes. The farmers are also struggling here with this aging thing in South Africa and United States. Now read up those links before you retire! ;-) http://www.agriculture.com/news/business/is-agriculture-aging-too-quickly_5-ar34746 http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087391 etc. Happy reading. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- * *Good Sports http://www.palmbeachschools.org/ten/goodsports.asp: *Covering the best in Palm Beach County School Sports, airing nightly at 7 p.m. on Comcast 234 and ATT UVerse 99.* *Disclaimer: *Under Florida law, e-mail addresses are public records. If you do not want your e-mail address released in response to a public records request, do not send electronic mail to this entity. Instead, contact this office by phone or in writing. * * * * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Serialization without Enque
That won't help if you fetch the new count and the old value1. On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 11:38:38 -0600 Kenneth Wilkerson redb...@austin.rr.com wrote: :Yes, it is possible that the updates are not performed in any order. :However, it is guaranteed that the updates are only performed if the swap :can be done. Therefore, I use a simple rule. If the number of instructions :needed to compute the new chain pointers are small (as is the case in my :example). I don't incur the overhead of doing the extra 2 PLO (Compare and :Load) operations. I simply re-drive the operation as shown in Binyamin's :example. Even with the PLO Compare and Load, there is no guarantee the swap :will succeed. It just lessens the likelihood. So the decision point is :whether the overhead of 2 additional PLO instructions is less than the :overhead of a re-drive. This can only be determined with testing. You can :determine this by using a CS to update a counter for every re-drive. You :already have an operation count, so you can then easily determine the :percentage of re-drives. In my experience, even in very active chains, the :PLO serialization process will incur a very small number of re-drives (much :less than 1 percent). But only testing can reveal that. : :-Original Message- :From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On :Behalf Of Binyamin Dissen :Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 11:15 AM :To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU :Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque : :My understanding is with multi-threading it is possible that the updates to :the fields may be out of order and thus it is possible to fetch the updated :counter with the unupdated value1. PLO serializes it. : :On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 07:46:51 -0800 Jon Perryman jperr...@pacbell.net wrote: : ::Thanks Binyamin. Also a great example but it brings me to another :question. What is the advantage of using PLO compare and fetch? Is it just :saving CPU time in the case where the counter has changed? Is there another :advantage that I'm not thinking about? :: ::Jon Perryman. :: :: :: :: :: From: Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com : : : :If you :truly need a triple compare and swap then PLO will not help you. But if ::you need a disjoint double compare and swap, you use the compare-and-swap ::field as a counter and then you con do a compare swap and double store. :: ::Example: :: :: Fetch counter ::A PLO compare-and-fetch value1 :: CC0, go to A :: PLO compare-and-fetch value 2 :: CC0, go to A :: calculate new value1 and 2 :: Add one to fetched counter :: PLO CSDST fetched-counter new-fetched-counter, new value1, :new-value2 : CC0, go to A : : : : ::-- ::For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, :send :email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Serialization without Enque
I'm glad you brought that up because I knew what I have been doing for years was correct but I hadn't taken the time to read the manual on PLO in some time. The order of stores is unpredictable except that according to the POM, operand 2 (in this case, the count) is always stored last. In those cases when a store is performed to the second- operand location and one or more of the fourth-, sixth-, and eighth-operand locations, the store to the second-operand location is always performed last, as observed by other CPUs and by channel programs. Page 7-290 right column top half of page in SA22-7832-09, 7-281 in SA22-7832-08 Kenneth -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Binyamin Dissen Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 2:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque That won't help if you fetch the new count and the old value1. On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 11:38:38 -0600 Kenneth Wilkerson redb...@austin.rr.com wrote: :Yes, it is possible that the updates are not performed in any order. :However, it is guaranteed that the updates are only performed if the swap :can be done. Therefore, I use a simple rule. If the number of instructions :needed to compute the new chain pointers are small (as is the case in my :example). I don't incur the overhead of doing the extra 2 PLO (Compare and :Load) operations. I simply re-drive the operation as shown in Binyamin's :example. Even with the PLO Compare and Load, there is no guarantee the swap :will succeed. It just lessens the likelihood. So the decision point is :whether the overhead of 2 additional PLO instructions is less than the :overhead of a re-drive. This can only be determined with testing. You can :determine this by using a CS to update a counter for every re-drive. You :already have an operation count, so you can then easily determine the :percentage of re-drives. In my experience, even in very active chains, the :PLO serialization process will incur a very small number of re-drives (much :less than 1 percent). But only testing can reveal that. : :-Original Message- :From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On :Behalf Of Binyamin Dissen :Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 11:15 AM :To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU :Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque : :My understanding is with multi-threading it is possible that the updates to :the fields may be out of order and thus it is possible to fetch the updated :counter with the unupdated value1. PLO serializes it. : :On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 07:46:51 -0800 Jon Perryman jperr...@pacbell.net wrote: : ::Thanks Binyamin. Also a great example but it brings me to another :question. What is the advantage of using PLO compare and fetch? Is it just :saving CPU time in the case where the counter has changed? Is there another :advantage that I'm not thinking about? :: ::Jon Perryman. :: :: :: :: :: From: Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com : : : :If you :truly need a triple compare and swap then PLO will not help you. But if ::you need a disjoint double compare and swap, you use the compare-and-swap ::field as a counter and then you con do a compare swap and double store. :: ::Example: :: :: Fetch counter ::A PLO compare-and-fetch value1 :: CC0, go to A :: PLO compare-and-fetch value 2 :: CC0, go to A :: calculate new value1 and 2 :: Add one to fetched counter :: PLO CSDST fetched-counter new-fetched-counter, new value1, :new-value2 : CC0, go to A : : : : ::-- ::For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, :send :email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Serialization without Enque
Thanks for pointing out that it's required to do the PLO COMPARE against the counter and FETCH of the value otherwise there is no guarantee that value1 is consistent with the counter. I'm also hearing you say that programs that reference more than a single word, must use PLO COMPARE and FETCH. In Kenneth's example where he uses PLO to save 64 bit addresses (which is 2 words), he can't use LG to reference the 64 bit address otherwise he risks using high and low register values that do not match. Is that correct? Jon Perryman. From: Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com That won't help if you fetch the new count and the old value1. On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 11:38:38 -0600 Kenneth Wilkerson redb...@austin.rr.com wrote: :Yes, it is possible that the updates are not performed in any order. :However, it is guaranteed that the updates are only performed if the swap :can be done. Therefore, I use a simple rule. If the number of instructions :needed to compute the new chain pointers are small (as is the case in my :example). I don't incur the overhead of doing the extra 2 PLO (Compare and :Load) operations. I simply re-drive the operation as shown in Binyamin's :example. Even with the PLO Compare and Load, there is no guarantee the swap :will succeed. It just lessens the likelihood. So the decision point is :whether the overhead of 2 additional PLO instructions is less than the :overhead of a re-drive. This can only be determined with testing. You can :determine this by using a CS to update a counter for every re-drive. You :already have an operation count, so you can then easily determine the :percentage of re-drives. In my experience, even in very active chains, the :PLO serialization process will incur a very small number of re-drives (much :less than 1 percent). But only testing can reveal that. : :-Original Message- :From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On :Behalf Of Binyamin Dissen :Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 11:15 AM :To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU :Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque : :My understanding is with multi-threading it is possible that the updates to :the fields may be out of order and thus it is possible to fetch the updated :counter with the unupdated value1. PLO serializes it. : :On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 07:46:51 -0800 Jon Perryman jperr...@pacbell.net wrote: : ::Thanks Binyamin. Also a great example but it brings me to another :question. What is the advantage of using PLO compare and fetch? Is it just :saving CPU time in the case where the counter has changed? Is there another :advantage that I'm not thinking about? :: ::Jon Perryman. :: :: :: :: :: From: Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com : : : :If you :truly need a triple compare and swap then PLO will not help you. But if ::you need a disjoint double compare and swap, you use the compare-and-swap ::field as a counter and then you con do a compare swap and double store. :: ::Example: :: :: Fetch counter ::A PLO compare-and-fetch value1 :: CC0, go to A :: PLO compare-and-fetch value 2 :: CC0, go to A :: calculate new value1 and 2 :: Add one to fetched counter :: PLO CSDST fetched-counter new-fetched-counter, new value1, :new-value2 : CC0, go to A : : : : ::-- ::For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, :send :email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Serialization without Enque
This is not correct. The choice to PLO compare and load is not required since the count is always guaranteed to be swapped after the stores (my last email). I only use PLO Compare and load for complex chain manipulations. But do it if you want. The serialization performed by a PLO forces serialization on the lock word for all processors. I try to Avoid it for situations where a re-drive is less costly -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jon Perryman Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 2:42 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque Thanks for pointing out that it's required to do the PLO COMPARE against the counter and FETCH of the value otherwise there is no guarantee that value1 is consistent with the counter. I'm also hearing you say that programs that reference more than a single word, must use PLO COMPARE and FETCH. In Kenneth's example where he uses PLO to save 64 bit addresses (which is 2 words), he can't use LG to reference the 64 bit address otherwise he risks using high and low register values that do not match. Is that correct? Jon Perryman. From: Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com That won't help if you fetch the new count and the old value1. On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 11:38:38 -0600 Kenneth Wilkerson redb...@austin.rr.com wrote: :Yes, it is possible that the updates are not performed in any order. :However, it is guaranteed that the updates are only performed if the swap :can be done. Therefore, I use a simple rule. If the number of instructions :needed to compute the new chain pointers are small (as is the case in my :example). I don't incur the overhead of doing the extra 2 PLO (Compare and :Load) operations. I simply re-drive the operation as shown in Binyamin's :example. Even with the PLO Compare and Load, there is no guarantee the swap :will succeed. It just lessens the likelihood. So the decision point is :whether the overhead of 2 additional PLO instructions is less than the :overhead of a re-drive. This can only be determined with testing. You can :determine this by using a CS to update a counter for every re-drive. You :already have an operation count, so you can then easily determine the :percentage of re-drives. In my experience, even in very active chains, the :PLO serialization process will incur a very small number of re-drives (much :less than 1 percent). But only testing can reveal that. : :-Original Message- :From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On :Behalf Of Binyamin Dissen :Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 11:15 AM :To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU :Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque : :My understanding is with multi-threading it is possible that the updates to :the fields may be out of order and thus it is possible to fetch the updated :counter with the unupdated value1. PLO serializes it. : :On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 07:46:51 -0800 Jon Perryman jperr...@pacbell.net wrote: : ::Thanks Binyamin. Also a great example but it brings me to another :question. What is the advantage of using PLO compare and fetch? Is it just :saving CPU time in the case where the counter has changed? Is there another :advantage that I'm not thinking about? :: ::Jon Perryman. :: :: :: :: :: From: Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com : : : :If you :truly need a triple compare and swap then PLO will not help you. But if ::you need a disjoint double compare and swap, you use the compare-and-swap ::field as a counter and then you con do a compare swap and double store. :: ::Example: :: :: Fetch counter ::A PLO compare-and-fetch value1 :: CC0, go to A :: PLO compare-and-fetch value 2 :: CC0, go to A :: calculate new value1 and 2 :: Add one to fetched counter :: PLO CSDST fetched-counter new-fetched-counter, new value1, :new-value2 : CC0, go to A : : : : ::--- --- ::For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, :send :email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO
Re: Serialization without Enque
As you say, PLO only locks CPU's using the same PLO lock word. For other CPU's not using the lockword, it is consider multiple unique instructions. So in the case of the 64 bit address, PLO CSDST, it is considered compare, store value1, store value2, store swap value. Although it's unlikely, it is possible for the LG instruction to occur after store value1 but before store value2. Or are the stores considered a single occurrance instruction to the other CPU's? Thanks, Jon Peryman. From: Kenneth Wilkerson redb...@austin.rr.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, November 4, 2013 1:06 PM Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque This is not correct. The choice to PLO compare and load is not required since the count is always guaranteed to be swapped after the stores (my last email). I only use PLO Compare and load for complex chain manipulations. But do it if you want. The serialization performed by a PLO forces serialization on the lock word for all processors. I try to Avoid it for situations where a re-drive is less costly -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jon Perryman Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 2:42 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque Thanks for pointing out that it's required to do the PLO COMPARE against the counter and FETCH of the value otherwise there is no guarantee that value1 is consistent with the counter. I'm also hearing you say that programs that reference more than a single word, must use PLO COMPARE and FETCH. In Kenneth's example where he uses PLO to save 64 bit addresses (which is 2 words), he can't use LG to reference the 64 bit address otherwise he risks using high and low register values that do not match. Is that correct? Jon Perryman. From: Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com That won't help if you fetch the new count and the old value1. On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 11:38:38 -0600 Kenneth Wilkerson redb...@austin.rr.com wrote: :Yes, it is possible that the updates are not performed in any order. :However, it is guaranteed that the updates are only performed if the swap :can be done. Therefore, I use a simple rule. If the number of instructions :needed to compute the new chain pointers are small (as is the case in my :example). I don't incur the overhead of doing the extra 2 PLO (Compare and :Load) operations. I simply re-drive the operation as shown in Binyamin's :example. Even with the PLO Compare and Load, there is no guarantee the swap :will succeed. It just lessens the likelihood. So the decision point is :whether the overhead of 2 additional PLO instructions is less than the :overhead of a re-drive. This can only be determined with testing. You can :determine this by using a CS to update a counter for every re-drive. You :already have an operation count, so you can then easily determine the :percentage of re-drives. In my experience, even in very active chains, the :PLO serialization process will incur a very small number of re-drives (much :less than 1 percent). But only testing can reveal that. : :-Original Message- :From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On :Behalf Of Binyamin Dissen :Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 11:15 AM :To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU :Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque : :My understanding is with multi-threading it is possible that the updates to :the fields may be out of order and thus it is possible to fetch the updated :counter with the unupdated value1. PLO serializes it. : :On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 07:46:51 -0800 Jon Perryman jperr...@pacbell.net wrote: : ::Thanks Binyamin. Also a great example but it brings me to another :question. What is the advantage of using PLO compare and fetch? Is it just :saving CPU time in the case where the counter has changed? Is there another :advantage that I'm not thinking about? :: ::Jon Perryman. :: :: :: :: :: From: Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com : : : :If you :truly need a triple compare and swap then PLO will not help you. But if ::you need a disjoint double compare and swap, you use the compare-and-swap ::field as a counter and then you con do a compare swap and double store. :: ::Example: :: :: Fetch counter ::A PLO compare-and-fetch value1 :: CC0, go to A :: PLO compare-and-fetch value 2 :: CC0, go to A :: calculate new value1 and 2 :: Add one to fetched counter :: PLO CSDST fetched-counter new-fetched-counter, new value1, :new-value2 : CC0, go to A : : : : ::--- --- ::For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, :send :email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com http://www.dissensoftware.com Director,
Re: Serialization without Enque
The order of stores is unpredictable except that according to the POM, operand 2 (in this case, the count) is always stored last. In those cases when a store is performed to the second- operand location and one or more of the fourth-, sixth-, and eighth-operand locations, the store to the second-operand location is always performed last, as observed by other CPUs and by channel programs. Page 7-290 right column top half of page in SA22-7832-09, 7-281 in SA22-7832-08 So it's impossible for the count to be updated before the stores. I've been using and relying on these techniques for years with exhaustive testing under high workloads with re-drive statistics to help me decide the algorithm that I use. It can't hurt to do the PLO Compare and Load. It just adds overhead that is probably more efficiently handled by a re-drive. But it's up to you. I suggest you add redrive counter to your test case and see for yourself. I would be extremely surprised if the re-drive percent were ever higher than a small fraction of 1% no matter how hard you drove the chain. Kenneth -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jon Perryman Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 3:31 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque As you say, PLO only locks CPU's using the same PLO lock word. For other CPU's not using the lockword, it is consider multiple unique instructions. So in the case of the 64 bit address, PLO CSDST, it is considered compare, store value1, store value2, store swap value. Although it's unlikely, it is possible for the LG instruction to occur after store value1 but before store value2. Or are the stores considered a single occurrance instruction to the other CPU's? Thanks, Jon Peryman. From: Kenneth Wilkerson redb...@austin.rr.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, November 4, 2013 1:06 PM Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque This is not correct. The choice to PLO compare and load is not required since the count is always guaranteed to be swapped after the stores (my last email). I only use PLO Compare and load for complex chain manipulations. But do it if you want. The serialization performed by a PLO forces serialization on the lock word for all processors. I try to Avoid it for situations where a re-drive is less costly -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jon Perryman Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 2:42 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque Thanks for pointing out that it's required to do the PLO COMPARE against the counter and FETCH of the value otherwise there is no guarantee that value1 is consistent with the counter. I'm also hearing you say that programs that reference more than a single word, must use PLO COMPARE and FETCH. In Kenneth's example where he uses PLO to save 64 bit addresses (which is 2 words), he can't use LG to reference the 64 bit address otherwise he risks using high and low register values that do not match. Is that correct? Jon Perryman. From: Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com That won't help if you fetch the new count and the old value1. On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 11:38:38 -0600 Kenneth Wilkerson redb...@austin.rr.com wrote: :Yes, it is possible that the updates are not performed in any order. :However, it is guaranteed that the updates are only performed if the swap :can be done. Therefore, I use a simple rule. If the number of instructions :needed to compute the new chain pointers are small (as is the case in my :example). I don't incur the overhead of doing the extra 2 PLO (Compare and :Load) operations. I simply re-drive the operation as shown in Binyamin's :example. Even with the PLO Compare and Load, there is no guarantee the swap :will succeed. It just lessens the likelihood. So the decision point is :whether the overhead of 2 additional PLO instructions is less than the :overhead of a re-drive. This can only be determined with testing. You can :determine this by using a CS to update a counter for every re-drive. You :already have an operation count, so you can then easily determine the :percentage of re-drives. In my experience, even in very active chains, the :PLO serialization process will incur a very small number of re-drives (much :less than 1 percent). But only testing can reveal that. : :-Original Message- :From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On :Behalf Of Binyamin Dissen :Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 11:15 AM :To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU :Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque : :My understanding is with multi-threading it is possible that the updates to :the fields may be out of order and thus it is possible to fetch the updated :counter with the unupdated value1. PLO serializes it. :
Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
I thought that was why we had those big SHARE and CMG conferences every year. :-) Bill Fairchild Franklin, TN - Original Message - From: Richard Pinion rpin...@netscape.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, November 4, 2013 11:31:04 AM Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers Yeah, but farmers have their own dating site www.farmersonly.com. Never seen one of those for system programmers. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Cpc name variable in IEASYMxx
On 11/4/2013 2:06 AM, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM wrote: OSLEVEL : The 6 character operating system level. A new symbol was added in z/OS 2.1: SYSOSLVL. = Z1020100 -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation
On 11/4/2013 5:01 AM, Binyamin Dissen wrote: SRB's certainly can do I/O - they just need to do it at the metal level. I'm not sure I would call the venerable STARTIO interface the metal level. It probably seems that way to most developers since it's so poorly documented... -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation
On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 15:46:47 -0800, Ed Jaffe wrote: On 11/4/2013 5:01 AM, Binyamin Dissen wrote: SRB's certainly can do I/O - they just need to do it at the metal level. I'm not sure I would call the venerable STARTIO interface the metal level. It probably seems that way to most developers since it's so poorly documented... Is it GUPI? I understand that IBM had intended that it not be GUPI. However it leaked into the lore in pre-OCO times. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation
On 11/4/2013 9:23 AM, Russ Teubner wrote: I don't think customers mind using (and paying for) high-value MIPS for high-value apps. However, everything else (e.g., integration and plumbing) should be run on specialty engines (within the bounds of IBM's rules). Agreed. For example, it would be good if monitors such a RMF and others did not use costly machine cycles. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation
On 11/4/2013 4:00 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 15:46:47 -0800, Ed Jaffe wrote: I'm not sure I would call the venerable STARTIO interface the metal level. It probably seems that way to most developers since it's so poorly documented... Is it GUPI? I understand that IBM had intended that it not be GUPI. However it leaked into the lore in pre-OCO times. STARTIO existed long before the notions of GUPI, PSPI and DMTI. AFAIK, IECDIOSB became classified DMTI long after the fact: as of MVS V5 I believe. Before that it was in the logic manuals, microfiche, etc. and still appears in the source-maintained portions of products like JES3 and IMS. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation
PMFJI here Ed, but PSPI and DMTI aren't acronyms that I recognize. Translations please? Peter -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Jaffe Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 7:11 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Security exposure of zXXP was Re: zIIP simulation On 11/4/2013 4:00 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 15:46:47 -0800, Ed Jaffe wrote: I'm not sure I would call the venerable STARTIO interface the metal level. It probably seems that way to most developers since it's so poorly documented... Is it GUPI? I understand that IBM had intended that it not be GUPI. However it leaked into the lore in pre-OCO times. STARTIO existed long before the notions of GUPI, PSPI and DMTI. AFAIK, IECDIOSB became classified DMTI long after the fact: as of MVS V5 I believe. Before that it was in the logic manuals, microfiche, etc. and still appears in the source-maintained portions of products like JES3 and IMS. -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
On 4 Nov 2013 11:49:17 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: They said enough -- just because some are doesn't mean there's enough! Somehow I got into the field with only 1 course in Numerical Analysis and Programming for Digital Computers (2 semesters) in 1961 and 1 course in Symbolic Logic. I was lucky that my company sent me to several IBM course and from 1977 to 1990 to SHARE. Should Colleges and Universities be teaching vendor specific operating systems? Should they be teaching the basic concepts of operating systems and of security? Clark Morris - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -Original Message- From: George Rodriguez george.rodrig...@palmbeachschools.org Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 10:58:04 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers That's not 100% true... Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers. There's a program in North Carolina that's teaching TSO, Cobol, JCL, etc... and graduates are being hired by businesses that are using mainframe computer systems. We in south Florida were thinking of offering the same programs... *George Rodriguez* *Specialist II - IT Solutions* *IT Enterprise Applications* *PX - 47652* *(561) 357-7652 (office)* *(561) 707-3496 (mobile)* *School District of Palm Beach County* *3348 Forest Hill Blvd.* *Room B-251* *West Palm Beach, FL. 33406-5869* *Florida's Only A-Rated Urban District For Eight Consecutive Years* On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Dave Salt ds...@hotmail.com wrote: Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers.;-) Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it! http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 02:41:39 -0600 From: elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za Subject: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU News for you aging Sysprogs... :-) It is not the mainframers who is aging while struggling to get new young guys/gals into mainframes. The farmers are also struggling here with this aging thing in South Africa and United States. Now read up those links before you retire! ;-) http://www.agriculture.com/news/business/is-agriculture-aging-too-quickly_5-ar34746 http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087391 etc. Happy reading. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
How can I write this program to a load library
All: I am a re-newbie to COBOL (learned it years ago but it's very rusty). I am teaching it to my students because it's a great job skill now. Below is job that contains the source code inline and runs great. It compiles, links and runs error free. What I want is the syntax to place the LOAD module into a data set. I tried what I thought would work, but it didn't. Many thanks! //KC02177B JOB (12345678),'V HAMPTON',MSGLEVEL=(1,1),REGION=0M, // NOTIFY=SYSUID,MSGCLASS=A,CLASS=A // //COBOL1 EXEC IGYWCLG, // PARM.COBOL='TEST,RENT,APOST,OBJECT,NODYNAM,LIB,SIZE(5048376)' //COBOL.SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //COBOL.SYSIN DD * IDENTIFICATION DIVISION. 0004 PROGRAM-ID. PROG1. 0006 AUTHOR. VICKI HAMPTON. * LAB EXERCISE 1.0007 ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.0009 CONFIGURATION SECTION. 0011 INPUT-OUTPUT SECTION.0017 FILE-CONTROL.0019 SELECT INPUT-FILE ASSIGN TO DA-S-INPUT. 0021 SELECT PRNT-FILEASSIGN TO UR-S-PRNT.0024 * INPUT-FILE IS THE NAME THE PROGRAM WILL USE *DA-S-INPUT TELLS JCL TO ASSIGN THE INPUT DATA *TO THE FILE NAME INPUT-FILE, SAME FOR PRNT-FILE *AND UR-S-PRNT EJECT0025 * EJECT DIRECTS THE PRINTER TO START THE NEXT * OUTPUT TO BEGIN AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE DATA DIVISION. 0026 SKIP30027 * SKIP 3 INSERTS 3 BLANK LINES FILE SECTION.0028 SKIP20029 *SKIP TO INSERTS 2 BLANK LINES FD INPUT-FILE 0030 BLOCK CONTAINS 0 RECORDS 0031 * THIS INFORMS THE SYSTEM THAT NO RECORDS ARE PRESENT * WHEN WE START (WE ARE READING OUR DATA FROM * AN INLINE STREAM LABEL RECORDS ARE STANDARD. 0032 01 INPUT-REC PIC X(80). 033 SKIP20034 FD PRNT-FILE0045 LABEL RECORDS ARE OMITTED. 0046 01 PRNT-REC.0047 03 PIC X(60). 03 PIC X(65). * THIS IS FORMATTING FOR OUR REPORT SKIP20048 EJECT0049 WORKING-STORAGE SECTION. 0050 SKIP20051 **0052 * LAYOUT FOR THE INPUT FILE *0053 **0054 01 INPUT-DATA. 0055 03 I-NAME PIC X(20).0057 03 DEPT PIC X(10). 03 FILLER PIC X(50).0058 * FILLER IS USED FOR PADDING SKIP20062 EJECT0096 **0097 * LAYOUT FOR THE 1ST DATA LINE OF REPORT PRNTING *0098 **0099 01 PRNT-DATA1. 0100 03 FILLER PIC X(10) VALUE SPACES. 0101 03 L-NAME1PIC X(20).0104 03 FILLER PIC X(10) VALUE SPACES. 03 DEPT1 PIC X(10). 03 EXTRA PIC X(50). 03 EXTRA2 PIC X(40) VALUE ''. 03 EXTRA3 PIC X(5) VALUE 'E'. SKIP2
Re: How can I write this program to a load library
The CLG at the end of your proc name stands for compile, link, and go. You should have a corresponding CL proc (for compile and link) that should be set up to let you specify a permanent library via a symbolic parameter. You will then need to add Binder (nee Linkage Editor) control cards (or possibly addition symbolic parameters) to specify the member name and other load module options. If the Binder runs with NCAL specified, you would run the program with the corresponding LG (link and go) proc. If not, you would use the corresponding G (go) proc. :: -Original Message- :: From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On :: Behalf Of Cameron Seay :: Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 6:50 PM :: To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU :: Subject: How can I write this program to a load library :: :: All: :: :: I am a re-newbie to COBOL (learned it years ago but it's very rusty). I :: am teaching it to my students because it's a great job skill now. Below :: is job that contains the source code inline and runs great. It compiles, :: links and runs error free. What I want is the syntax to place the LOAD :: module into a data set. I tried what I thought would work, but it :: didn't. Many thanks! :: :: //KC02177B JOB (12345678),'V HAMPTON',MSGLEVEL=(1,1),REGION=0M, :: // NOTIFY=SYSUID,MSGCLASS=A,CLASS=A :: // :: //COBOL1 EXEC IGYWCLG, :: // PARM.COBOL='TEST,RENT,APOST,OBJECT,NODYNAM,LIB,SIZE(5048376)' :: //COBOL.SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* :: //COBOL.SYSIN DD * snip :: //GO.SYSOUT DD SYSOUT=* :: //GO.SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* :: //GO.INPUT DD * :: VICKI HAMPTON CIS :: GEORGE WASHINGTON ENG :: IVAN ISGREATPHY :: IGOR ISBETTER :: IVANA GOHOME :: COB OL :: HUGH LESS :: GARY MORE :: PAULA PANTHER :: //GO.PRNT DD SYSOUT=* :: -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: How can I write this program to a load library
On 11/4/2013 7:49 PM, Cameron Seay wrote: All: I am a re-newbie to COBOL (learned it years ago but it's very rusty). I am teaching it to my students because it's a great job skill now. Below is job that contains the source code inline and runs great. It compiles, links and runs error free. What I want is the syntax to place the LOAD module into a data set. I tried what I thought would work, but it didn't. Many thanks! To do that has nothing to do with COBOL: it's JCL you need to brush up on. Point LKED.SYSLMOD to a PDS/PDSE that contains load modules or program objects. //KC02177B JOB (12345678),'V HAMPTON',MSGLEVEL=(1,1),REGION=0M, // NOTIFY=SYSUID,MSGCLASS=A,CLASS=A // //COBOL1 EXEC IGYWCLG, // PARM.COBOL='TEST,RENT,APOST,OBJECT,NODYNAM,LIB,SIZE(5048376)' //COBOL.SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //COBOL.SYSIN DD * Lots of very old syntax here. IDENTIFICATION DIVISION. 0004 PROGRAM-ID. PROG1. 0006 AUTHOR. VICKI HAMPTON. Obsolete paragraph, AUTHOR * LAB EXERCISE 1. 0007 ENVIRONMENT DIVISION. 0009 CONFIGURATION SECTION. 0011 INPUT-OUTPUT SECTION. 0017 FILE-CONTROL. 0019 SELECT INPUT-FILE ASSIGN TO DA-S-INPUT. 0021 just ASSIGN TO S-INPUT is fine, better would be: ASSIGN TO INDD (the DA-S stuff is ignored, but 'INPUT' itself is a reserved word) SELECT PRNT-FILEASSIGN TO UR-S-PRNT. 0024 just ASSIGN TO PRNT is better * INPUT-FILE IS THE NAME THE PROGRAM WILL USE *DA-S-INPUT TELLS JCL TO ASSIGN THE INPUT DATA *TO THE FILE NAME INPUT-FILE, SAME FOR PRNT-FILE *AND UR-S-PRNT EJECT EJECT and SKIP are only relevant when you print out your compiles to hard copy; otherwise pretty meaningless 0025 * EJECT DIRECTS THE PRINTER TO START THE NEXT * OUTPUT TO BEGIN AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE Well, yes, but the output of the _compile_, not the output of the report DATA DIVISION. 0026 SKIP3 0027 * SKIP 3 INSERTS 3 BLANK LINES the current compilers simply accept blank lines FILE SECTION. 0028 SKIP2 0029 *SKIP TO INSERTS 2 BLANK LINES FD INPUT-FILE 0030 BLOCK CONTAINS 0 RECORDS 0031 * THIS INFORMS THE SYSTEM THAT NO RECORDS ARE PRESENT * WHEN WE START (WE ARE READING OUR DATA FROM * AN INLINE STREAM No, it does not. It tells the operating system to choose the block size LABEL RECORDS ARE STANDARD. 0032 ' recording mode is F. ' is more important This is unnecessary, since it is the only option for disk and the default for tape 01 INPUT-REC PIC X(80). 033 SKIP2 0034 FD PRNT-FILE 0045 LABEL RECORDS ARE OMITTED. 0046 Unnecessary; ' recording mode is F. ' is more important 01 PRNT-REC. 0047 03 PIC X(60). 03 PIC X(65). * THIS IS FORMATTING FOR OUR REPORT SKIP2 0048 EJECT 0049 WORKING-STORAGE SECTION. 0050 SKIP2 0051 ** 0052 * LAYOUT FOR THE INPUT FILE *0053 ** 0054 01 INPUT-DATA.
Re: How can I write this program to a load library
With Cobol Installation, your shop should have loaded many IGYW* procs. You are using IGYWCLG. In the JESMSGLOG you should see a message that states PROC IGYWCLG Expanded from x Library. Go to that Library and see if you have other IGYW* procs there. One of them should have an IEWL or BINDER step that you can override the SYSLMOD to a load library of your choice. Also, go and look at the manual: Application Programing for z/OS for your level of Cobol. It should detail the different procs and what they can be used for. I think the IGYWCL may be what you need to use. HTH Lizette -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Cameron Seay Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 7:50 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: How can I write this program to a load library All: I am a re-newbie to COBOL (learned it years ago but it's very rusty). I am teaching it to my students because it's a great job skill now. Below is job that contains the source code inline and runs great. It compiles, links and runs error free. What I want is the syntax to place the LOAD module into a data set. I tried what I thought would work, but it didn't. Many thanks! //KC02177B JOB (12345678),'V HAMPTON',MSGLEVEL=(1,1),REGION=0M, // NOTIFY=SYSUID,MSGCLASS=A,CLASS=A // //COBOL1 EXEC IGYWCLG, // PARM.COBOL='TEST,RENT,APOST,OBJECT,NODYNAM,LIB,SIZE(5048376)' //COBOL.SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //COBOL.SYSIN DD * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: How can I write this program to a load library
On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 20:21:38 -0700, Steve Comstock wrote: To do that has nothing to do with COBOL: it's JCL you need to brush up on. Point LKED.SYSLMOD to a PDS/PDSE that contains load modules or program objects. Be very careful doing that! When I was very young I tried something similar without understanding that the following GO step contained: //STEPLIB DD DISP=(OLD,DELETE),DSN=*.LKED.SYSLMOD Oops! -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Automate Flash Copy : DS8800
Actually we have a sample script that we distribute with our automation products that does exactly that, you can schedule the Flashcopy (i.e. for D.R. purposes or just plain backups) and the entire FC/backup for a specific TOD, or you can have it happen based on some event where that event can be a time, console message, or something else (as long as we can see it, you can base your task on it). Brian Westerman Syzygy Incorporated -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Automate Flash Copy : DS8800
Have you looked at scheduling a script in Tivoli Storage Productivity Center to see if that would meet your needs? More information is available here: http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/tivihelp/v59r1/topic/com.ibm.tpc_V52.doc/fqz0_c_working_with_scripts.html Timothy Sipples GMU VCT Architect Executive (Based in Singapore) E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
Diverting the thread a tad, does anyone know where you can do an HLASM course? My young colleague wants to be inducted into the mysteries of the ancient craft and we found various IBM courses (see below) but none of them are currently being offered. Of course, various outfits are happy to come to your shop and give one-on-one instruction, but HR won't wear the expense of that. ES10AGB http://www-304.ibm.com/jct03001c/services/learning/ites.wss/gb/en?pageType=c ourse_descriptioncourseCode=ES10AGB ES34GB http://www-304.ibm.com/jct03001c/services/learning/ites.wss/gb/en?pageType=c ourse_descriptioncourseCode=ES34GB ES35GB http://www-304.ibm.com/jct03001c/services/learning/ites.wss/gb/en?pageType=c ourse_descriptioncourseCode=ES35GB He is in the UK but travel would not be a problem. Any suggestions gratefully received! Thanks -Robin -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Clark Morris Sent: 05 November 2013 10:15 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers On 4 Nov 2013 11:49:17 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: They said enough -- just because some are doesn't mean there's enough! Somehow I got into the field with only 1 course in Numerical Analysis and Programming for Digital Computers (2 semesters) in 1961 and 1 course in Symbolic Logic. I was lucky that my company sent me to several IBM course and from 1977 to 1990 to SHARE. Should Colleges and Universities be teaching vendor specific operating systems? Should they be teaching the basic concepts of operating systems and of security? Clark Morris - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -Original Message- From: George Rodriguez george.rodrig...@palmbeachschools.org Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 10:58:04 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers That's not 100% true... Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers. There's a program in North Carolina that's teaching TSO, Cobol, JCL, etc... and graduates are being hired by businesses that are using mainframe computer systems. We in south Florida were thinking of offering the same programs... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
