Re: Bringing up skills learned on z/OS Hercules in interview?

[Grant Taylor]

On 4/9/20 5:23 PM, Bob Bridges wrote:
This is new to me.  I've heard of Hercules, but I never heard that 
it is considered, or that IBM would like it to be considered, an 
illegal counterfeit.  Is there any ethical reason for that viewpoint? 
No, forget "ethical"; I guess I can make up my own mind about that 
(and there'll never be a consensus on it).  Is there any ~legal~ 
basis for the assertion?


My understanding is that the crux of the issue is the license for MVS 
(newer than 3.8j), OS/390, and z/OS.  In short, those OSs require IBM 
""hardware to legally run them.


Seeing as how Hercules is decidedly /not/ IBM ""hardware, running any of 
the aforementioned OSs means that you are doing so illegally.


At least that's my layman's understanding.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I say ""hardware, because IBM does have zPDT / RDz that is — as I 
understand it — a purely software solution with the caveat of a hardware 
license dongle.  But the mainframe hardware is completely emulated in 
software.




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The ancient computers in the Boeing 737 Max are holding up a fix

[Paul Gilmartin]

Not an IBM mainframe this time.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/9/21197162/boeing-737-max-software-hardware-computer-fcc-crash

The perils of fixing a hardware problem with software

(lotsa ads)

-- gil

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Re: About the leap second and coding

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 22:33:09 -0400, Bob Bridges wrote:

>I just read an article about time-keeping that made a claim that puzzles me:
>
>"But most people — including commercial programmers, who write the critical 
>software that controls public and private infrastructure — don’t know about 
>the leap second, Matsakis said, and that means their code doesn’t account for 
>it. So when a new leap second rolls around, things break. Reddit, LinkedIn, 
>and Yelp all suffered issues related to the last leap second in 2012. And, 
>more seriously, computer booking systems used by Qantas Airlines all 
>struggled, delaying flights by hours.
>
>"In some cases, it is impossible to update systems before the next leap second 
>arrives. Matsakis spoke of a Switzerland power company whose backup systems 
>only turn on when needed—otherwise, they sit disconnected from the network. 
>When they were activated in a test after the last leap second, they crashed."
>
>What's this about?  What would crash because we didn't account for a leap 
>second?  Why wouldn't a plane scheduled to leave at 13:44:20 on a certain day 
>simply leave at 13:44:19 instead?
>
Sometimes validity checks reject a transaction that appears to have
completed before it started.  If the transaction was critical, the
consequences may propagate.  Error injection and fuzz testing may
not have discovered the weakness.

See: "leap smear" in 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_second#Workarounds_for_leap_second_problems

See (my favorite): 
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/time-services/ut1-ntp-time-dissemination
Just do it!

https://datacenter.iers.org/data/latestVersion/16_BULLETIN_C16.txt

>The article is here:
>https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/the-over-perfection-of-humans-global-clock/384355/

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Re: Bringing up skills learned on z/OS Hercules in interview?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:20:10 +1000, Wayne Bickerdike  wrote:

>It's legal to run z enabled Linux on Hercules. Not sure what you would
>achieve over just running Linux on Wintel but interesting in that you may
>then have marketable skills for a real z shop.
> 
Testing programs for z-compatibility.  The most obvious pitfalls arise from
endianness and type-punning.

I understand that some Hercules principals believe they could implement
STP and ICSF, not well documented in the PoOps, but choose not to
because of possible legal entanglements.

>You can run mainframe Linuxes without fear of the license police. RHEL and
>SLES are battle-hardened supported commercial editions. Of course there are
>also free-of-cost mainframe Linuxes:
>
>   - Fedora s390x 
>   - Debian s390 
>   - Gentoo 
>   - Centos , using RHEL instructions
>   
> 
>   - openSUSE 
>
>
>On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:09 AM Arthur  wrote:
>
>> On 9 Apr 2020 16:23:35 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
>> (Message-ID:<026c01d60ec5$da038be0$8e0aa3a0$@gmail.com>)
>> robhbrid...@gmail.com (Bob Bridges) wrote:
>>
>> >This is new to me.  I've heard of Hercules, but I never
>> >heard that it is considered, or that IBM would like it to
>> >be considered, an illegal counterfeit.  Is there any
>> >ethical reason for that viewpoint?  No, forget "ethical";
>> >I guess I can make up my own mind about that (and there'll
>> >never be a consensus on it).  Is there any ~legal~ basis
>> >for the assertion?
>>
>> My understanding is that Hercules is perfectly legal and
>> ethical. However, running an unlicensed, copyright
>> operating system (such as z/OS) is quite a different story.
>> So, as people said, running MVS 3.8 under Hercules is fine,
>> but any later OS is problematic.

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About the leap second and coding

[Bob Bridges]

I just read an article about time-keeping that made a claim that puzzles me:

"But most people — including commercial programmers, who write the critical 
software that controls public and private infrastructure — don’t know about the 
leap second, Matsakis said, and that means their code doesn’t account for it. 
So when a new leap second rolls around, things break. Reddit, LinkedIn, and 
Yelp all suffered issues related to the last leap second in 2012. And, more 
seriously, computer booking systems used by Qantas Airlines all struggled, 
delaying flights by hours.

"In some cases, it is impossible to update systems before the next leap second 
arrives. Matsakis spoke of a Switzerland power company whose backup systems 
only turn on when needed—otherwise, they sit disconnected from the network. 
When they were activated in a test after the last leap second, they crashed."

What's this about?  What would crash because we didn't account for a leap 
second?  Why wouldn't a plane scheduled to leave at 13:44:20 on a certain day 
simply leave at 13:44:19 instead?

The article is here:
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/01/the-over-perfection-of-humans-global-clock/384355/

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.  -from 
_Calvin & Hobbes_ */

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Re: Bringing up skills learned on z/OS Hercules in interview?

[Wayne Bickerdike]

It's legal to run z enabled Linux on Hercules. Not sure what you would
achieve over just running Linux on Wintel but interesting in that you may
then have marketable skills for a real z shop.

You can run mainframe Linuxes without fear of the license police. RHEL and
SLES are battle-hardened supported commercial editions. Of course there are
also free-of-cost mainframe Linuxes:

   - Fedora s390x 
   - Debian s390 
   - Gentoo 
   - Centos , using RHEL instructions
   

   - openSUSE 


On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 10:09 AM Arthur  wrote:

> On 9 Apr 2020 16:23:35 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
> (Message-ID:<026c01d60ec5$da038be0$8e0aa3a0$@gmail.com>)
> robhbrid...@gmail.com (Bob Bridges) wrote:
>
> >This is new to me.  I've heard of Hercules, but I never
> >heard that it is considered, or that IBM would like it to
> >be considered, an illegal counterfeit.  Is there any
> >ethical reason for that viewpoint?  No, forget "ethical";
> >I guess I can make up my own mind about that (and there'll
> >never be a consensus on it).  Is there any ~legal~ basis
> >for the assertion?
>
> My understanding is that Hercules is perfectly legal and
> ethical. However, running an unlicensed, copyright
> operating system (such as z/OS) is quite a different story.
> So, as people said, running MVS 3.8 under Hercules is fine,
> but any later OS is problematic.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
Wayne V. Bickerdike

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Re: Bringing up skills learned on z/OS Hercules in interview?

[Arthur]

On 9 Apr 2020 16:23:35 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main 
(Message-ID:<026c01d60ec5$da038be0$8e0aa3a0$@gmail.com>) 
robhbrid...@gmail.com (Bob Bridges) wrote:


This is new to me.  I've heard of Hercules, but I never 
heard that it is considered, or that IBM would like it to 
be considered, an illegal counterfeit.  Is there any 
ethical reason for that viewpoint?  No, forget "ethical"; 
I guess I can make up my own mind about that (and there'll 
never be a consensus on it).  Is there any ~legal~ basis 
for the assertion?


My understanding is that Hercules is perfectly legal and 
ethical. However, running an unlicensed, copyright 
operating system (such as z/OS) is quite a different story. 
So, as people said, running MVS 3.8 under Hercules is fine, 
but any later OS is problematic. 


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Re: Bringing up skills learned on z/OS Hercules in interview?

[Bob Bridges]

This is new to me.  I've heard of Hercules, but I never heard that it is 
considered, or that IBM would like it to be considered, an illegal counterfeit. 
 Is there any ethical reason for that viewpoint?  No, forget "ethical"; I guess 
I can make up my own mind about that (and there'll never be a consensus on it). 
 Is there any ~legal~ basis for the assertion?

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad 
measures.  -Daniel Webster */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Grant Taylor
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 15:02

In my opinion, IBM will never sanction Hercules.

I think that mentioning Hercules in the specific context of MVS 3.8j or 
S/390 Linux or other free / non-licensed OSs is probably okay.

Doing so in a way that shows that you understand and respect the 
licensing situation is probably a good thing.

--- On 4/9/20 10:55 AM, scott Ford wrote:
> Until Hercules is sanctioned by IBM I wouldnt mentioned it.

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Re: Bringing up skills learned on z/OS Hercules in interview?

[Charles Mills]

+1 on all counts.

And follow the interviewer's lead: if s/he says "we don't believe in those 
illegal hippie bootleg mainframes!" then for gosh sakes don't bring it up again.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Grant Taylor
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 12:02 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Bringing up skills learned on z/OS Hercules in interview?

On 4/9/20 10:55 AM, scott Ford wrote:
> Until Hercules is sanctioned by IBM I wouldnt mentioned it.

In my opinion, IBM will never sanction Hercules.

I think that mentioning Hercules in the specific context of MVS 3.8j or 
S/390 Linux or other free / non-licensed OSs is probably okay.

Doing so in a way that shows that you understand and respect the 
licensing situation is probably a good thing.

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Re: FW: COBOL NJ

[Dave Jones]

Open Mainframe Project members and community,
We just announced today with support from Open Mainframe Project members 
Broadcom, IBM, Phoenix Software, Rocket Software, SUSE, Vicom Infinity, and 
Zoss Team, a series of initiatives to support the need for COBOL expertise in 
response to the COVID-19 crisis. Please see the blog announcement made below...
https://www.openmainframeproject.org/blog/2020/04/09/open-mainframe-project-helps-fill-the-need-for-cobol-resources
Please share the below social posts with your networks:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/OpenMFProject/status/1248327010268610572
LinkedIn: 
https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6654097221400829952/
As we all are members of the mainframe community, supporting each other in this 
time of need is critical. Each of you in the community has an opportunity to be 
a part of this by...
- posting your availability for volunteer or work-for-hire work for state and 
local governments and other critical organizations in need with COBOL in the 
'Calling all COBOL Programmers' topic on the OMP Community Forums ( 
https://community.openmainframeproject.org/c/calling-all-cobol-programmers/15 )
- providing your expertise to others that are working on COBOL systems that are 
responding to the COVID-19 crisis in the 'COBOL technical questions' topic on 
the OMP Community Forums ( 
https://community.openmainframeproject.org/c/cobol-technical-questions/16 )
Each and every one of us is a critical piece in helping overcome this global 
pandemic, and I know that the mainframe community is one to step up to the 
challenge. Thank you all for your dedication, and I look forward to working 
with you in this cause.
Thank you,
John Mertic
Director of Program Management - Linux Foundation

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Re: Wanted Civil programmers in New Jersey urgently

[John McKown]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:51 PM Steve Smith  wrote:

> I didn't apply because I'm an uncivil programmer.
>

That was a rather civil response. I can imagine an NJ uncivil response. All
remarks about NJ based on my BFF from the few years he lived there. I did
see one occurance that I thought was apocryphal -- handed a cop who was
going to give him a ticket a "friend of an officer" card. I could see the
officer's irritation when he just gave him a warning.



>
> sas
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 1:02 PM zMan  wrote:
>
> > "Civil"? Is that some language derived from COBOL? :)
>
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-- 
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Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Wanted Civil programmers in New Jersey urgently

[John McKown]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:04 PM scott Ford  wrote:

> More like initial design good for the times and the State not wanting to
> spend money , the code was never updated or barely maintained.
>

Which is in keeping with "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." We only do
maintenance for fixes or changed uder requirements. The last big code
review was from VS COBOL II to Enterprise COBOL. And that was minimal to
get it to compile. Does anybody ever refactor old COBOL code? I have a Java
IDE which will refactor Java.



>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 1:02 PM zMan  wrote:
>
> > "Civil"? Is that some language derived from COBOL? :)
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 11:57 PM Mike Schwab 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Well, the 3rd COVID19 bill included an extra $600 per week increase in
> > > benefits from federal sources.  Should be able to change the formulae
> > > quick enough, then just multiply the number of checks by the $600 to
> > > transfer from the Feds.  Actually I expect the problem to be a maxed
> > > out database or filled volume with the large increase in number of
> > > payments.
> > >
> > > On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 2:15 PM Martin Packer  >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I came to the opposite conclusion: I couldn't see why coding was
> > required
> > > > unless new function was DESPERATELY needed. The word in bold because
> > that
> > > > seems very risky - going around changing function at a time like
> this.
> > > >
> > > > And, because my lens is more-or-less performance, I thought making
> the
> > > > application scale was the urgent and safer thing. Yes, I realise
> > > > application changes can be necessary to make something scale but then
> > > > we're back to desperation. :-(
> > > >
> > > > Cheers, Martin
> > > >
> > > > Martin Packer
> > > >
> > > > zChampion, Systems Investigator & Performance Troubleshooter, IBM
> > > >
> > > > +44-7802-245-584
> > > >
> > > > email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com
> > > >
> > > > Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker
> > > >
> > > > Blog:
> > > >
> https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker
> > > >
> > > > Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://developer.ibm.com/tv/mpt/
> > > or
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mainframe-performance-topics/id1127943573?mt=2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Youtube channel:
> > > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From:   Laurence Chiu 
> > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > > Date:   05/04/2020 20:06
> > > > Subject:[EXTERNAL] Wanted Civil programmers in New Jersey
> > > urgently
> > > > Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List <
> > IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > it seems that the huge increase in benefit request in New Jersey is
> > > > causing
> > > > their benefit systems to be overloaded and not able to handle the
> > volume
> > > > of
> > > > requests.
> > > >
> > > > It doesn't seem like a load issue but more the application needs to
> be
> > > > changed. Otherwise you would just throw more MIPS at it
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2020_04_05_new-5Fjersey-5Fseeks-5Fcobol-5Fvolunteers_=DwIBaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=BsPGKdq7-Vl8MW2-WOWZjlZ0NwmcFSpQCLphNznBSDQ=we9iQYSSOE8VzuyXv27f9iKmNJlYkPMnUAf4sG-UjZA=UgOg-N0E7RFnAw49opRaW9-gaTi6S8WvCM4bi73z9FM=
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> --
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> IBM-MAIN
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Unless stated otherwise above:
> > > > IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with
> > number
> > > > 741598.
> > > > Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire
> PO6
> > > 3AU
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> --
> > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO
> IBM-MAIN
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
> > > Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
> >
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> >
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> *IDMWORKS *
>
> Scott Ford
>
> z/OS Dev.
>
>
>
>
> “By elevating a friend or Collegue you elevate yourself, by demeaning a
> friend or collegue you demean 

Re: Wanted Civil programmers in New Jersey urgently

[John McKown]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:02 PM zMan  wrote:

> "Civil"? Is that some language derived from COBOL? :)
>
>
I doubt it relates to the typical NJ attitude about non-NJ people. Just a
bit better than that of NYC people, speaking in general.

But mst likely means Civialian vs Military.


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Re: Bringing up skills learned on z/OS Hercules in interview?

[Grant Taylor]

On 4/9/20 10:55 AM, scott Ford wrote:

Until Hercules is sanctioned by IBM I wouldnt mentioned it.


In my opinion, IBM will never sanction Hercules.

I think that mentioning Hercules in the specific context of MVS 3.8j or 
S/390 Linux or other free / non-licensed OSs is probably okay.


Doing so in a way that shows that you understand and respect the 
licensing situation is probably a good thing.




--
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Re: Bringing up skills learned on z/OS Hercules in interview?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 12:55:11 -0400, scott Ford wrote:

>Until Hercules is sanctioned by IBM I wouldnt mentioned it.
>
>On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:08 PM Grant Taylor wrote:
>
>> On 4/8/20 1:13 PM, SUBSCRIBE IBM-MAIN Brandon Tucker wrote:
>>
>> > I've always wondered if it was a good idea bringing up skills
>> > acquired by using z/OS Hercules with a copy of 1.10 floating on the
>> > internet?
>>
>> I think it's always pertinent to bring up skills that you acquired on a
>> mainframe that you had access to.
>>
>> I think I would elide, if not actively avoid, that it was illegally
>> using licensed IBM software on a non-IBM emulator.
>>
What do others know about Fan Dezhi, aka tn3270://efglobe.com?
o Is it safe?
o Reportedly running z/OS 1.6!?
o Prohibits use for:
  - Training
  - any sort of "Hello world" program
  - [commercial use?]
  - What does that leave?
  - Is OMVS available?
o One of the named principals appears to be a regular contributor to IBM-MAIN.
o "whois" traces it to Denver.
o Who pays for it?

-- gil

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Re: Wanted Civil programmers in New Jersey urgently

[Steve Smith]

I didn't apply because I'm an uncivil programmer.

sas

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 1:02 PM zMan  wrote:

> "Civil"? Is that some language derived from COBOL? :)

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Re: JCL & UNIX coding.

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 20:29:27 +0300, ITschak Mugzach wrote:

>Submit command (ispf & tso) can be replaced by a program that will fold yo
>uppercase, depending on content (dir names bs dataset names, etc.).
> 
I have done something similar, primarily to relieve SUBMIT's archaic
Fixed-80 constraint.

I believe ISPF SUBmit invokes TSO SUBmit after quietly truncating to
80.  It should at least warn the programmer of possible data loss, as
once happened to me when I used SDSF SJ; SUBMIT.

Imagine DELETE DATA.SET.NAME(MEMBER) quietly truncated at the
worst place.

-- gil

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Re: [External] Re: FW: COBOL NJ

[Pommier, Rex]

Well, it's obvious from the article that all mainframes are 50 years old, and 
their COBOL programs are over 40 years old, that they haven't been touched 
since then - so anybody who worked on them has to be in their 70s and retired, 
and bored so just looking for something to do to take up some of their free 
time so it stands to reason that they wouldn't want to actually get paid to 
update this ancient stuff and ruin their retirement income!  

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
scott Ford
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 12:08 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] Re: FW: COBOL NJ

Why am I not surprised

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:59 PM Steve Beaver  wrote:

> No Pay = They really don't want competent help
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of scott Ford
> Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 11:56 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: FW: COBOL NJ
>
> So do I assume volunteers mean no pay ?
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:48 PM Jack J. Woehr  wrote:
>
> > On 4/8/20 7:58 PM, Bob Bridges wrote:
> > > (Regarding that tagline:)  YES!!  "Science" is only superficially 
> > > an
> > activity, and even more superficially a job; much more important 
> > it's a philosophy, a way of approaching the discovery of knowledge.  
> > By that definition some scientists aren't, and some non-scientists are.
> >
> >
> > And it's salutary to remember that it was uttered by the man dubbed 
> > "BHA" by the engineers at Apple Computer :)
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way
> of
> > www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the 
> > universe www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human 
> > fallibility. - Carl Sagan
> >
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Re: JCL & UNIX coding.

[Charles Mills]

Yeah, ISPF with HILITE CNTL highlights the lowercase letters in pink IIRC. It 
could implement "FIX LC". Don't hold your breath.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 10:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JCL & UNIX coding.

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 10:07:50 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
>
>When what I would like is
>
>//SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=*the blah blah report
>
>Need the "do what I meant" feature implemented in ISPF edit.
> 
Isn't there a JCL language profile that should do that?  Does it
also highlight keywords in comments?

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Re: JCL & UNIX coding.

[ITschak Mugzach]

Submit command (ispf & tso) can be replaced by a program that will fold yo
uppercase, depending on content (dir names bs dataset names, etc.).

ITschak

בתאריך יום ה׳, 9 באפר׳ 2020, 20:18, מאת Paul Gilmartin ‏<
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>:

> On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 10:07:50 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
> >
> >When what I would like is
> >
> >//SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=*the blah blah report
> >
> >Need the "do what I meant" feature implemented in ISPF edit.
> >
> Isn't there a JCL language profile that should do that?  Does it
> also highlight keywords in comments?
>
> As I said, I'm inclined to type what I mean and eschew automation.
>
> I was dismayed that when Binder lists commands in SYSLIN it
> hides columns 73-80.
>
> -- gil
>
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Re: JCL & UNIX coding.

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 10:07:50 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
>
>When what I would like is
>
>//SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=*the blah blah report
>
>Need the "do what I meant" feature implemented in ISPF edit.
> 
Isn't there a JCL language profile that should do that?  Does it
also highlight keywords in comments?

As I said, I'm inclined to type what I mean and eschew automation.

I was dismayed that when Binder lists commands in SYSLIN it
hides columns 73-80.

-- gil

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Re: New Jersey Pleas for COBOL Coders for Mainframes Amid Coronavirus Pandemic

[Phil Smith III]

Tony Thigpen wrote:

>Many years ago, a programmer where I worked was told to write a program

>in Cobol instead of RPG (which he preferred). So he did, but all the

>variables were in Spanish. Management was not impressed.

 

When my dad was teaching in South America (which he'd do for a few months at a 
time when I was a kid-he's gone now, and it only now occurs to me to wonder how 
that worked, since he was a full professor at a university; perhaps leave, 
perhaps sabbatical??), he came across a PL/I compiler that had been translated 
into Spanish-that is, the language keywords were Spanish! He was sort of 
impressed at the effort, but could also see the inherent problems it 
represented with support etc.

 

Another friend had a colleague who allegedly wrote a program using variables 
whose names were all zeroes and ohs and ones and ells [spelling these out for 
readability]. He eventually trashed it because HE couldn't debug it!


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Re: JCL & UNIX coding.

[Charles Mills]

ISPF edit line commands.

UC converts the given line to upper case.
UCC ... UCC converts the indicated range of lines to upper case.

The one place where it fails (fails me, it's working as designed) is if I were 
to type for example

//sysprint dd sysout=*the blah blah report

UC converts it to 

//SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=*THE BLAH BLAH REPORT

When what I would like is

//SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=*the blah blah report

Need the "do what I meant" feature implemented in ISPF edit.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 9:01 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JCL & UNIX coding.

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:33:50 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>I agree totally but FWIW I find that the line commands UC and UCC/UCC go a 
>long way toward making the process tolerable.
>
Context?  ISPF Primary panel?  TSO READY prompt?  JCL?  OMVS?  Other (specify)?

(No habla UCC.)
I remember terminals with not CAPS LOCK but SHIFT LOCK, sometimes
a mechanical latch on the SHIFT key.

>-Original Message-
>From: John McKown
>Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 5:02 AM
>
>I like to use UNIX facilities. Especially some scripting languages, such as
>awk. I use Co:Z instead of BPXBATCH. Anyway, sine UNIX is case sensitive,
>my "embedded" scripts must be in lower case. I don't want to keep my
>scripts in another file. So my JCL member has embedded lower case. Which
>makes editing the actual JCL a mess if I forget to use CAPS LOCK while
>editing the JCL portion.
>
>So, I kind of wish that the JCL converter or interpreter would accept JCL
>in lower case. In particular, upper casing the JCL statements which are not
>inclosed in ticks. It would just make my life easier. I.E JCL should ignore
>case when not in ticks.

-- gil

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Re: FW: COBOL NJ

[scott Ford]

Why am I not surprised

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:59 PM Steve Beaver  wrote:

> No Pay = They really don't want competent help
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of scott Ford
> Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 11:56 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: FW: COBOL NJ
>
> So do I assume volunteers mean no pay ?
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:48 PM Jack J. Woehr  wrote:
>
> > On 4/8/20 7:58 PM, Bob Bridges wrote:
> > > (Regarding that tagline:)  YES!!  "Science" is only superficially an
> > activity, and even more superficially a job; much more important it's a
> > philosophy, a way of approaching the discovery of knowledge.  By that
> > definition some scientists aren't, and some non-scientists are.
> >
> >
> > And it's salutary to remember that it was uttered by the man dubbed
> > "BHA" by the engineers at Apple Computer :)
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way
> of
> > www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the
> > universe
> > www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. -
> > Carl Sagan
> >
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Re: Wanted Civil programmers in New Jersey urgently

[scott Ford]

More like initial design good for the times and the State not wanting to
spend money , the code was never updated or barely maintained.

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 1:02 PM zMan  wrote:

> "Civil"? Is that some language derived from COBOL? :)
>
> On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 11:57 PM Mike Schwab 
> wrote:
>
> > Well, the 3rd COVID19 bill included an extra $600 per week increase in
> > benefits from federal sources.  Should be able to change the formulae
> > quick enough, then just multiply the number of checks by the $600 to
> > transfer from the Feds.  Actually I expect the problem to be a maxed
> > out database or filled volume with the large increase in number of
> > payments.
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 2:15 PM Martin Packer 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I came to the opposite conclusion: I couldn't see why coding was
> required
> > > unless new function was DESPERATELY needed. The word in bold because
> that
> > > seems very risky - going around changing function at a time like this.
> > >
> > > And, because my lens is more-or-less performance, I thought making the
> > > application scale was the urgent and safer thing. Yes, I realise
> > > application changes can be necessary to make something scale but then
> > > we're back to desperation. :-(
> > >
> > > Cheers, Martin
> > >
> > > Martin Packer
> > >
> > > zChampion, Systems Investigator & Performance Troubleshooter, IBM
> > >
> > > +44-7802-245-584
> > >
> > > email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com
> > >
> > > Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker
> > >
> > > Blog:
> > > https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker
> > >
> > > Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://developer.ibm.com/tv/mpt/
> > or
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mainframe-performance-topics/id1127943573?mt=2
> > >
> > >
> > > Youtube channel:
> > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From:   Laurence Chiu 
> > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > Date:   05/04/2020 20:06
> > > Subject:[EXTERNAL] Wanted Civil programmers in New Jersey
> > urgently
> > > Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List <
> IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > it seems that the huge increase in benefit request in New Jersey is
> > > causing
> > > their benefit systems to be overloaded and not able to handle the
> volume
> > > of
> > > requests.
> > >
> > > It doesn't seem like a load issue but more the application needs to be
> > > changed. Otherwise you would just throw more MIPS at it
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2020_04_05_new-5Fjersey-5Fseeks-5Fcobol-5Fvolunteers_=DwIBaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=BsPGKdq7-Vl8MW2-WOWZjlZ0NwmcFSpQCLphNznBSDQ=we9iQYSSOE8VzuyXv27f9iKmNJlYkPMnUAf4sG-UjZA=UgOg-N0E7RFnAw49opRaW9-gaTi6S8WvCM4bi73z9FM=
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> >
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“By elevating a friend or Collegue you elevate yourself, by demeaning a
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Re: Wanted Civil programmers in New Jersey urgently

[zMan]

"Civil"? Is that some language derived from COBOL? :)

On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 11:57 PM Mike Schwab  wrote:

> Well, the 3rd COVID19 bill included an extra $600 per week increase in
> benefits from federal sources.  Should be able to change the formulae
> quick enough, then just multiply the number of checks by the $600 to
> transfer from the Feds.  Actually I expect the problem to be a maxed
> out database or filled volume with the large increase in number of
> payments.
>
> On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 2:15 PM Martin Packer 
> wrote:
> >
> > I came to the opposite conclusion: I couldn't see why coding was required
> > unless new function was DESPERATELY needed. The word in bold because that
> > seems very risky - going around changing function at a time like this.
> >
> > And, because my lens is more-or-less performance, I thought making the
> > application scale was the urgent and safer thing. Yes, I realise
> > application changes can be necessary to make something scale but then
> > we're back to desperation. :-(
> >
> > Cheers, Martin
> >
> > Martin Packer
> >
> > zChampion, Systems Investigator & Performance Troubleshooter, IBM
> >
> > +44-7802-245-584
> >
> > email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com
> >
> > Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker
> >
> > Blog:
> > https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker
> >
> > Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://developer.ibm.com/tv/mpt/
> or
> >
> >
> https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mainframe-performance-topics/id1127943573?mt=2
> >
> >
> > Youtube channel:
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA
> >
> >
> >
> > From:   Laurence Chiu 
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Date:   05/04/2020 20:06
> > Subject:[EXTERNAL] Wanted Civil programmers in New Jersey
> urgently
> > Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> >
> >
> >
> > it seems that the huge increase in benefit request in New Jersey is
> > causing
> > their benefit systems to be overloaded and not able to handle the volume
> > of
> > requests.
> >
> > It doesn't seem like a load issue but more the application needs to be
> > changed. Otherwise you would just throw more MIPS at it
> >
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2020_04_05_new-5Fjersey-5Fseeks-5Fcobol-5Fvolunteers_=DwIBaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=BsPGKdq7-Vl8MW2-WOWZjlZ0NwmcFSpQCLphNznBSDQ=we9iQYSSOE8VzuyXv27f9iKmNJlYkPMnUAf4sG-UjZA=UgOg-N0E7RFnAw49opRaW9-gaTi6S8WvCM4bi73z9FM=
> >
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Unless stated otherwise above:
> > IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
> > 741598.
> > Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6
> 3AU
> >
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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>
>
> --
> Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
> Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
>
> --
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Re: [External] Re: JCL & UNIX coding.

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 16:24:24 +, Pommier, Rex wrote:

>ISPF edit session line commands to convert the line or block of lines to 
>uppercase.  
> 
Ah!  Thanks.  Not in my repertoire.  I'm accustomed to typing
what I mean and shunning any system overrides.

"Line"?  I say "prefix".  Or am I contaminated by XEDIT jargon.

Once I was having trouble with an EXEC2 (IIRC).  I asked our BOFH for
help (small department).  He leaned over my shoulder; added a command;
SAVEd; and tested.  Failed because I ran XEDIT with CASE Mixed.  He
quickly XEDITed again; UPPER *; SAVE.  I was furious; complained to
our manager; perhaps asked for recovery from backup.

-- gil

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Re: FW: COBOL NJ

[Steve Beaver]

No Pay = They really don't want competent help

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of scott Ford
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 11:56 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FW: COBOL NJ

So do I assume volunteers mean no pay ?

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:48 PM Jack J. Woehr  wrote:

> On 4/8/20 7:58 PM, Bob Bridges wrote:
> > (Regarding that tagline:)  YES!!  "Science" is only superficially an
> activity, and even more superficially a job; much more important it's a
> philosophy, a way of approaching the discovery of knowledge.  By that
> definition some scientists aren't, and some non-scientists are.
>
>
> And it's salutary to remember that it was uttered by the man dubbed
> "BHA" by the engineers at Apple Computer :)
>
>
> --
> Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
> www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the
> universe
> www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. -
> Carl Sagan
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


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“By elevating a friend or Collegue you elevate yourself, by demeaning a
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www.idmworks.com

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Re: Happy Passover and Easter to all

[scott Ford]

Pesach Samayaph

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 8:49 AM Dave Jones  wrote:

> Back at you
> DJ
>
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Re: FW: COBOL NJ

[scott Ford]

So do I assume volunteers mean no pay ?

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:48 PM Jack J. Woehr  wrote:

> On 4/8/20 7:58 PM, Bob Bridges wrote:
> > (Regarding that tagline:)  YES!!  "Science" is only superficially an
> activity, and even more superficially a job; much more important it's a
> philosophy, a way of approaching the discovery of knowledge.  By that
> definition some scientists aren't, and some non-scientists are.
>
>
> And it's salutary to remember that it was uttered by the man dubbed
> "BHA" by the engineers at Apple Computer :)
>
>
> --
> Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
> www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the
> universe
> www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. -
> Carl Sagan
>
> --
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-- 



*IDMWORKS *

Scott Ford

z/OS Dev.




“By elevating a friend or Collegue you elevate yourself, by demeaning a
friend or collegue you demean yourself”



www.idmworks.com

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Re: Bringing up skills learned on z/OS Hercules in interview?

[scott Ford]

Until Hercules is sanctioned by IBM I wouldnt mentioned it.

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 4:08 PM Grant Taylor <
023065957af1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On 4/8/20 1:13 PM, SUBSCRIBE IBM-MAIN Brandon Tucker wrote:
> > Greetings!
>
> Hello,
>
> > I've always wondered if it was a good idea bringing up skills
> > acquired by using z/OS Hercules with a copy of 1.10 floating on the
> > internet?
>
> I think it's always pertinent to bring up skills that you acquired on a
> mainframe that you had access to.
>
> I think I would elide, if not actively avoid, that it was illegally
> using licensed IBM software on a non-IBM emulator.
>
> > Has anyone heard of someone doing this during an interview? Or what
> > would you do/think if someone did this?
>
> With things like Master the Mainframe and hobbyists running their own
> machines, it's not outside of the realm of possibility for people to
> have access to a mainframe to learn.  It does take effort.  But it is
> possible.
>
> > Thanks!
>
> :-)
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>


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Scott Ford

z/OS Dev.




“By elevating a friend or Collegue you elevate yourself, by demeaning a
friend or collegue you demean yourself”



www.idmworks.com

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Blog: www.idmworks.com/blog





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Re: [External] Re: JCL & UNIX coding.

[Pommier, Rex]

ISPF edit session line commands to convert the line or block of lines to 
uppercase.  

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 11:01 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] Re: JCL & UNIX coding.

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:33:50 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>I agree totally but FWIW I find that the line commands UC and UCC/UCC go a 
>long way toward making the process tolerable.
>
Context?  ISPF Primary panel?  TSO READY prompt?  JCL?  OMVS?  Other (specify)?

(No habla UCC.)
I remember terminals with not CAPS LOCK but SHIFT LOCK, sometimes a mechanical 
latch on the SHIFT key.

>-Original Message-
>From: John McKown
>Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 5:02 AM
>
>I like to use UNIX facilities. Especially some scripting languages, 
>such as awk. I use Co:Z instead of BPXBATCH. Anyway, sine UNIX is case 
>sensitive, my "embedded" scripts must be in lower case. I don't want to 
>keep my scripts in another file. So my JCL member has embedded lower 
>case. Which makes editing the actual JCL a mess if I forget to use CAPS 
>LOCK while editing the JCL portion.
>
>So, I kind of wish that the JCL converter or interpreter would accept 
>JCL in lower case. In particular, upper casing the JCL statements which 
>are not inclosed in ticks. It would just make my life easier. I.E JCL 
>should ignore case when not in ticks.

-- gil

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Re: regarding the 'shortage of mainframe talent'

[Bob Bridges]

I know they're out there, John, because I worked for one for a few years.  That 
company closed its doors recently when the owner decided to retire, but they 
can't be the only one.

If the details matter, that was InfoSec, Inc.  They hired me in 2010 as part of 
a team to do some work for a client in Indianapolis.  That was as an 
independent, not an employee; I invoiced them for my time.  We repeated that 
relationship for two more projects, and in 2012 they invited me to become a W-2 
employee.  They continued farming me out to various clients.

In 2014 they added my first part-time client, and by the mid-2016 it was all 
part-time.  Late in 2018 the boss, wanting to save money, asked me to revert to 
independent, so we renegotiated the rate and I went back to invoicing.  He 
retired early this year, so InfoSec Inc is no longer available as a resource.  
But there have to be others who do the same sort of thing.

But it isn't only consulting shops that hire on a part-time basis.  One of my 
customers is HTC in Michigan; they're a regular contract recruiting house, but 
my work for one of their clients is part-time.

All of this made for a complicated interview when I registered for 
social-security last year; my SSA interviewer repeatedly had to consult with a 
coworker to figure out how to handle me.  She got it figured out in the end (I 
suppose).  If you want to talk more about that, feel free to contact me 
off-line, for what my ignorance is worth.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* "Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, that He may 
exalt you at the proper time." (1 Peter 5:6)  It is our job to humble 
ourselves; it is God's job to exalt.  If we try to do His job, He will do our 
job.  -Rick Joyner, "The World Aflame" */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 07:05

Is there a consulting company which hires "part timers"? I might want try
this when my shop goes under (sched 1Q2021). But the interaction between
working & Social Security is an unknown to me.

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Re: JCL & UNIX coding.

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:33:50 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>I agree totally but FWIW I find that the line commands UC and UCC/UCC go a 
>long way toward making the process tolerable.
>
Context?  ISPF Primary panel?  TSO READY prompt?  JCL?  OMVS?  Other (specify)?

(No habla UCC.)
I remember terminals with not CAPS LOCK but SHIFT LOCK, sometimes
a mechanical latch on the SHIFT key.

>-Original Message-
>From: John McKown
>Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 5:02 AM
>
>I like to use UNIX facilities. Especially some scripting languages, such as
>awk. I use Co:Z instead of BPXBATCH. Anyway, sine UNIX is case sensitive,
>my "embedded" scripts must be in lower case. I don't want to keep my
>scripts in another file. So my JCL member has embedded lower case. Which
>makes editing the actual JCL a mess if I forget to use CAPS LOCK while
>editing the JCL portion.
>
>So, I kind of wish that the JCL converter or interpreter would accept JCL
>in lower case. In particular, upper casing the JCL statements which are not
>inclosed in ticks. It would just make my life easier. I.E JCL should ignore
>case when not in ticks.

-- gil

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Re: JCL & UNIX coding.

[Charles Mills]

I agree totally but FWIW I find that the line commands UC and UCC/UCC go a long 
way toward making the process tolerable.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 5:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: JCL & UNIX coding.

I like to use UNIX facilities. Especially some scripting languages, such as
awk. I use Co:Z instead of BPXBATCH. Anyway, sine UNIX is case sensitive,
my "embedded" scripts must be in lower case. I don't want to keep my
scripts in another file. So my JCL member has embedded lower case. Which
makes editing the actual JCL a mess if I forget to use CAPS LOCK while
editing the JCL portion.

So, I kind of wish that the JCL converter or interpreter would accept JCL
in lower case. In particular, upper casing the JCL statements which are not
inclosed in ticks. It would just make my life easier. I.E JCL should ignore
case when not in ticks.

Feel free to call me a lazy idiot {grin}.

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Re: regarding the 'shortage of mainframe talent'

[scott Ford]

PartnerWorld membership doesnt provide the necessary access or downloads to
say “zpdt” to do development work ? This is what we do

Scott

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:07 AM Christopher Y. Blaicher <
cblaic...@syncsort.com> wrote:

> To me there is a difference between 'shortage of talent' and independent
> (open) development.  IBM would be well served to make development platforms
> available, but that is not what I want to discuss.
>
> I think the shortage of talent is because no company wants to invest in
> talent development for z/OS.  They want high schools and colleges to send
> them talented people.  I.E. the student pays for the education, not the
> company.
>
> z/OS is just another operating system, just like UNIX or Windows, just far
> more robust.  When you started using scripts, you had to learn it.  JCL is
> no different, you have to learn it.  Yes, it is different, but then again
> scripts were different for me coming from a long history of IBM operating
> systems.
>
> No, I find the lack of educated talent is a corporate problem, not a
> talent problem.  The corporations are just too cheap to make the
> investment.  Let students pay the thousands of dollars.
>
> Chris Blaicher
> Technical Architect
> Syncsort, Inc.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Edgington, Jerry
> Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 10:09 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: regarding the 'shortage of mainframe talent'
>
> [ External - This message originated Externally.  Use proper judgement and
> caution with attachments, links, or responses. ]
>
> Just a response to this comment, and I agree.  " To me, the biggest
> problem for z/OpenSource {grin} is the lack of an affordable platform for
> developers."
>
> I have been developing an "open source" project for z/OS. So, I have run
> into this many times, and it not just the hardware and z/OS, but other
> subsystems, like DB2, IMS, CICS, and various other components, like DBB,
> z/OS Connect, etc.  That is one of the biggest road blocks in this effort.
> However, working with the Open Mainframe Project, they are making these
> types of z/OS environment available.  My "open source" project has been
> accepted to OMP and we are working getting the environment setup to
> continue developing the Polycephaly project, under OMP.
>
> My wish is, to have more of these type environments setup.
> Jerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of John McKown
> Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 9:52 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: regarding the 'shortage of mainframe talent'
>
> This message was sent from an external source outside of Western &
> Southern's network. Do not click links or open attachments unless you
> recognize the sender and know the contents are safe.
>
> 
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 8:21 AM Gord Tomlin <
> gt.ibm.li...@actionsoftware.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On 2020-04-09 07:05, John McKown wrote:
> > >> If your objective is to do something interesting and
> > >> mind-stimulating in your newly enlarged spare time, then there are
> > >> massive number of open source projects you could contribute to.
> > >> There's a very good chance that some such projects line up well with
> your outside interests.
> > >>
> > > Ain't none of z/OS, unfortunately. At least as far as I know.
> > >
> > CBT? Zowe? Zigi?
> >
>
> CBT is sort of open source. Well, it is open source. But when I think of
> open source, I think of collaborative projects like I see on Github. I can
> download a CBT file and modify it, then send my updated source to Sam for
> inclusion. But there isn't the history like a Github project.
>
> I'll look at Zowe and Zigi. This is the first I've heard of them.
>
> To me, the biggest problem for z/OpenSource {grin} is the lack of an
> affordable platform for developers. The z/OS license fees for something
> like a zPDT are way beyond my ability to pay. And even if I had the money,
> IBM won't license to just anyone. IIRC, you must be a Business Partner or
> soe such thing.
>
> The above is why what little I do anymore is Linux on Intel.
>
>
>
> >
> > --
> >
> > Regards, Gord Tomlin
> > Action Software International
> > (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
> > Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
> > Support:
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://actionsoftware.com/support/__;!!I6
> > -MEfEZPA!bMeJNdKw0OIcQopRn3h4AJBFlBxtVXy2yeQQiDsecTNb4GYPR5KQeJ1TvOve9
> > uvw9Q$
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
>
>
> --
> People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown
>
> 

Re: regarding the 'shortage of mainframe talent'

[Christopher Y. Blaicher]

To me there is a difference between 'shortage of talent' and independent (open) 
development.  IBM would be well served to make development platforms available, 
but that is not what I want to discuss.

I think the shortage of talent is because no company wants to invest in talent 
development for z/OS.  They want high schools and colleges to send them 
talented people.  I.E. the student pays for the education, not the company.

z/OS is just another operating system, just like UNIX or Windows, just far more 
robust.  When you started using scripts, you had to learn it.  JCL is no 
different, you have to learn it.  Yes, it is different, but then again scripts 
were different for me coming from a long history of IBM operating systems.

No, I find the lack of educated talent is a corporate problem, not a talent 
problem.  The corporations are just too cheap to make the investment.  Let 
students pay the thousands of dollars.

Chris Blaicher
Technical Architect
Syncsort, Inc.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Edgington, Jerry
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 10:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: regarding the 'shortage of mainframe talent'

[ External - This message originated Externally.  Use proper judgement and 
caution with attachments, links, or responses. ]

Just a response to this comment, and I agree.  " To me, the biggest problem for 
z/OpenSource {grin} is the lack of an affordable platform for developers."

I have been developing an "open source" project for z/OS. So, I have run into 
this many times, and it not just the hardware and z/OS, but other subsystems, 
like DB2, IMS, CICS, and various other components, like DBB, z/OS Connect, etc. 
 That is one of the biggest road blocks in this effort.  However, working with 
the Open Mainframe Project, they are making these types of z/OS environment 
available.  My "open source" project has been accepted to OMP and we are 
working getting the environment setup to continue developing the Polycephaly 
project, under OMP.

My wish is, to have more of these type environments setup. 
Jerry 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
John McKown
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 9:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: regarding the 'shortage of mainframe talent'

This message was sent from an external source outside of Western & Southern's 
network. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender 
and know the contents are safe.


On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 8:21 AM Gord Tomlin 
wrote:

> On 2020-04-09 07:05, John McKown wrote:
> >> If your objective is to do something interesting and 
> >> mind-stimulating in your newly enlarged spare time, then there are 
> >> massive number of open source projects you could contribute to.
> >> There's a very good chance that some such projects line up well with your 
> >> outside interests.
> >>
> > Ain't none of z/OS, unfortunately. At least as far as I know.
> >
> CBT? Zowe? Zigi?
>

CBT is sort of open source. Well, it is open source. But when I think of open 
source, I think of collaborative projects like I see on Github. I can download 
a CBT file and modify it, then send my updated source to Sam for inclusion. But 
there isn't the history like a Github project.

I'll look at Zowe and Zigi. This is the first I've heard of them.

To me, the biggest problem for z/OpenSource {grin} is the lack of an affordable 
platform for developers. The z/OS license fees for something like a zPDT are 
way beyond my ability to pay. And even if I had the money, IBM won't license to 
just anyone. IIRC, you must be a Business Partner or soe such thing.

The above is why what little I do anymore is Linux on Intel.



>
> --
>
> Regards, Gord Tomlin
> Action Software International
> (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
> Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
> Support: 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://actionsoftware.com/support/__;!!I6
> -MEfEZPA!bMeJNdKw0OIcQopRn3h4AJBFlBxtVXy2yeQQiDsecTNb4GYPR5KQeJ1TvOve9
> uvw9Q$
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


--
People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: JCL & UNIX coding.

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 Apr 2020 07:02:26 -0500, John McKown wrote:
>
>So, I kind of wish that the JCL converter or interpreter would accept JCL
>in lower case. In particular, upper casing the JCL statements which are not
>inclosed in ticks. It would just make my life easier. I.E JCL should ignore
>case when not in ticks.
>
Ditto TSO commands typed on the ISPF primary panel.  It's absurd that
tso allocate path('/dev/null')

results in:
PATH /DEV/NULL NOT IN CATALOG OR CATALOG CAN NOT BE ACCESSED.

(BTW, was there really a catalog search attempted?)

But I'd gp to a different extreme: keywords should be case-insensitive;
this can be done in the table search routine.  *Everything* else should
be taken as typed.

And symbol substitution should be performed everywhere, not merely
in the handful of cases enumerated in the JCL Ref.

I have always commented my JCL in mixed case.  That practice
infuriates some colleagues who drop into ISPF Edit and find CAPS OFF.

-- gil

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Re: regarding the 'shortage of mainframe talent'

[Edgington, Jerry]

Just a response to this comment, and I agree.  " To me, the biggest problem for 
z/OpenSource {grin} is the lack of an affordable platform for developers."

I have been developing an "open source" project for z/OS. So, I have run into 
this many times, and it not just the hardware and z/OS, but other subsystems, 
like DB2, IMS, CICS, and various other components, like DBB, z/OS Connect, etc. 
 That is one of the biggest road blocks in this effort.  However, working with 
the Open Mainframe Project, they are making these types of z/OS environment 
available.  My "open source" project has been accepted to OMP and we are 
working getting the environment setup to continue developing the Polycephaly 
project, under OMP.

My wish is, to have more of these type environments setup. 
Jerry 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
John McKown
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 9:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: regarding the 'shortage of mainframe talent'

This message was sent from an external source outside of Western & Southern's 
network. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender 
and know the contents are safe.


On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 8:21 AM Gord Tomlin 
wrote:

> On 2020-04-09 07:05, John McKown wrote:
> >> If your objective is to do something interesting and 
> >> mind-stimulating in your newly enlarged spare time, then there are 
> >> massive number of open source projects you could contribute to. 
> >> There's a very good chance that some such projects line up well with your 
> >> outside interests.
> >>
> > Ain't none of z/OS, unfortunately. At least as far as I know.
> >
> CBT? Zowe? Zigi?
>

CBT is sort of open source. Well, it is open source. But when I think of open 
source, I think of collaborative projects like I see on Github. I can download 
a CBT file and modify it, then send my updated source to Sam for inclusion. But 
there isn't the history like a Github project.

I'll look at Zowe and Zigi. This is the first I've heard of them.

To me, the biggest problem for z/OpenSource {grin} is the lack of an affordable 
platform for developers. The z/OS license fees for something like a zPDT are 
way beyond my ability to pay. And even if I had the money, IBM won't license to 
just anyone. IIRC, you must be a Business Partner or soe such thing.

The above is why what little I do anymore is Linux on Intel.



>
> --
>
> Regards, Gord Tomlin
> Action Software International
> (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
> Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
> Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


--
People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Opinions/experience on sharing catalogs outside plex

[Michael Babcock]

Don’t forget Hyperswap either if you are running that.  IBM recommends no
reserves for that.

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 8:41 AM Allan Staller  wrote:

> All around, this is a really really bad idea. I understand you may not
> have a choice.
> Don’t forget:
>
> VSAM shareoptions
> SYSVSAM resource
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Rob Schramm
> Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:11 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Opinions/experience on sharing catalogs outside plex
>
> [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Do not click links
> or open attachments unless you trust the sender.]
>
> I am considering sharing some usercats outside of a sysplex.  What I can
> find is that sysiggv2 must be kept as a reserve to do so.
>
> Looking for others that have had to do this.
>
> One question I had was, what happens on a ispf 3.4 when the data set is
> part of the catalog but exists in another system?  Ief238d?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob Schramm
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
> to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> ::DISCLAIMER::
> 
> The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
> intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
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Re: regarding the 'shortage of mainframe talent'

[John McKown]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 8:21 AM Gord Tomlin 
wrote:

> On 2020-04-09 07:05, John McKown wrote:
> >> If your objective is to do something interesting and mind-stimulating in
> >> your newly enlarged spare time, then there are massive number of open
> >> source projects you could contribute to. There's a very good chance that
> >> some such projects line up well with your outside interests.
> >>
> > Ain't none of z/OS, unfortunately. At least as far as I know.
> >
> CBT? Zowe? Zigi?
>

CBT is sort of open source. Well, it is open source. But when I think of
open source, I think of collaborative projects like I see on Github. I can
download a CBT file and modify it, then send my updated source to Sam for
inclusion. But there isn't the history like a Github project.

I'll look at Zowe and Zigi. This is the first I've heard of them.

To me, the biggest problem for z/OpenSource {grin} is the lack of an
affordable platform for developers. The z/OS license fees for something
like a zPDT are way beyond my ability to pay. And even if I had the money,
IBM won't license to just anyone. IIRC, you must be a Business Partner or
soe such thing.

The above is why what little I do anymore is Linux on Intel.



>
> --
>
> Regards, Gord Tomlin
> Action Software International
> (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
> Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
> Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/
>
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Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Opinions/experience on sharing catalogs outside plex

[Allan Staller]

All around, this is a really really bad idea. I understand you may not have a 
choice.
Don’t forget:

VSAM shareoptions
SYSVSAM resource

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Rob 
Schramm
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Opinions/experience on sharing catalogs outside plex

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Do not click links or 
open attachments unless you trust the sender.]

I am considering sharing some usercats outside of a sysplex.  What I can find 
is that sysiggv2 must be kept as a reserve to do so.

Looking for others that have had to do this.

One question I had was, what happens on a ispf 3.4 when the data set is part of 
the catalog but exists in another system?  Ief238d?

Thanks,

Rob Schramm

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Re: regarding the 'shortage of mainframe talent'

[Gord Tomlin]

On 2020-04-09 07:05, John McKown wrote:

If your objective is to do something interesting and mind-stimulating in
your newly enlarged spare time, then there are massive number of open
source projects you could contribute to. There's a very good chance that
some such projects line up well with your outside interests.


Ain't none of z/OS, unfortunately. At least as far as I know.


CBT? Zowe? Zigi?

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Action Software International
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Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/

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Re: Happy Passover and Easter to all

[Dave Jones]

Back at you
DJ

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Re: regarding the 'shortage of mainframe talent'

[R.S.]

W dniu 09.04.2020 o 13:05, John McKown pisze:


Is there a consulting company which hires "part timers"?


Yes. It's not common, that means most of people are full-time employees, 
but I met several part-timers.
Even guy who was living in Warsaw, Poland and supported large 
installation on East Coast. (time gap).
And including me. :-) I did a lot in RACF area and storage (tapes, DASD, 
remote copy...) or IODF, etc.



--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland





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Re: Opinions/experience on sharing catalogs outside plex

[Revard, Thomas (TL)]

Rob,

We do something similar with our SMF data offloads that are only processed on 
one sysplex.

Take a look at info APAR II14297 for recommendations.

Regards,

Tom

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Rob Schramm
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2020 8:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Opinions/experience on sharing catalogs outside plex

This email originated from outside of the organization.


I am considering sharing some usercats outside of a sysplex.  What I can
find is that sysiggv2 must be kept as a reserve to do so.

Looking for others that have had to do this.

One question I had was, what happens on a ispf 3.4 when the data set is
part of the catalog but exists in another system?  Ief238d?

Thanks,

Rob Schramm

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Re: JCL & UNIX coding.

[Jack J. Woehr]

On 4/9/20 6:02 AM, John McKown wrote:

JCL should ignore
case when not in ticks.


Dragging z/OS kicking and screaming into the late 1970's.

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: JCL & UNIX coding.

[Sasso, Len]

Totally Agree !


Thank You!
Len Sasso
Systems Administrator Senior
CSRA, A General Dynamics Information Technology Company
327 Columbia TPKE
Rensselaer, NY 12144

Office Hours:  M-F  7A - 3:45 pm
Out-Of-The-Office:
Phone: (518) 257-4209
Cell: (518) 894-0879
Fax: (518) 257-4300
len.sa...@gdit.com
URL: www.gdit.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
John McKown
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 8:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: JCL & UNIX coding.

I like to use UNIX facilities. Especially some scripting languages, such as 
awk. I use Co:Z instead of BPXBATCH. Anyway, sine UNIX is case sensitive, my 
"embedded" scripts must be in lower case. I don't want to keep my scripts in 
another file. So my JCL member has embedded lower case. Which makes editing the 
actual JCL a mess if I forget to use CAPS LOCK while editing the JCL portion.

So, I kind of wish that the JCL converter or interpreter would accept JCL in 
lower case. In particular, upper casing the JCL statements which are not 
inclosed in ticks. It would just make my life easier. I.E JCL should ignore 
case when not in ticks.

Feel free to call me a lazy idiot {grin}.

--
People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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JCL & UNIX coding.

[John McKown]

I like to use UNIX facilities. Especially some scripting languages, such as
awk. I use Co:Z instead of BPXBATCH. Anyway, sine UNIX is case sensitive,
my "embedded" scripts must be in lower case. I don't want to keep my
scripts in another file. So my JCL member has embedded lower case. Which
makes editing the actual JCL a mess if I forget to use CAPS LOCK while
editing the JCL portion.

So, I kind of wish that the JCL converter or interpreter would accept JCL
in lower case. In particular, upper casing the JCL statements which are not
inclosed in ticks. It would just make my life easier. I.E JCL should ignore
case when not in ticks.

Feel free to call me a lazy idiot {grin}.

-- 
People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world.
Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Opinions/experience on sharing catalogs outside plex

[Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM]

Do you use ECS or VLF catalog caching? That sounds like a road to problems.

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Rob 
Schramm
Sent: 09 April 2020 02:11
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Opinions/experience on sharing catalogs outside plex

I am considering sharing some usercats outside of a sysplex.  What I can
find is that sysiggv2 must be kept as a reserve to do so.

Looking for others that have had to do this.

One question I had was, what happens on a ispf 3.4 when the data set is
part of the catalog but exists in another system?  Ief238d?

Thanks,

Rob Schramm

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Re: regarding the 'shortage of mainframe talent'

[John McKown]

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 5:20 PM Gord Tomlin 
wrote:

> On 2020-04-08 16:29, Stan Saraczewski wrote:
> > Question - how does a semi retired person secure part time projects ?
> There
> > is a difficulty getting past the 40 hour a week retirement...
>
> This may sound facetious, but it's not meant to be. It all depends on
> what you want out of the part time project(s).
>
> If your objective is to do something interesting and mind-stimulating in
> your newly enlarged spare time, then there are massive number of open
> source projects you could contribute to. There's a very good chance that
> some such projects line up well with your outside interests.
>

Ain't none of z/OS, unfortunately. At least as far as I know.



>
> On the other hand, if your objective is to get paid for your part-time
> efforts, things are much tougher. Most employers want to see a full-time
> commitment from their employees, and ageism is real.
>

I guess that is true for I.T. But I sometimes wonder about consultants. I
don't know, but it might be possible to get a short time contract to do or
help with somw project. But have a lawyer do the contract limiting your
liabilities for any company percieved "failures". I might be too cynical,
but I can easily imagine a manager saying that the contract was not
fulfilled & refusing to pay -- it helps his bottom line. And, yes, I've had
an I.T. manager tell me we were not upgrading CICS because the newer
vwrsion would increase the I.T. budget and decrease his bonus.

Is there a consulting company which hires "part timers"? I might want try
this when my shop goes under (sched 1Q2021). But the interaction between
working & Social Security is an unknown to me.



>
> --
>
> Regards, Gord Tomlin
> Action Software International
> (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
> Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
> Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Opinions/experience on sharing catalogs outside plex

[Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw]

Rob,

The manual, "MVS Planning: Global Resource Serialization"  SA23-1389-30 has 
information on sharing catalogs. SYSIGGV2 needs to use reserves. However, I 
think you also need to use reserves on SYSZVVDS and SYSVTOC. From memory 
(rather distant and not always reliable) there is also an IMS Qname that needs 
to be added to the list, but only if you use IMS. 

As for your ISPF question, I am unclear of the situation you describe. 

Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw | Security Lead | RSM Partners Ltd  
Web:  www.rsmpartners.com
‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Rob 
Schramm
Sent: 09 April 2020 01:11
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [IBM-MAIN] Opinions/experience on sharing catalogs outside plex

I am considering sharing some usercats outside of a sysplex.  What I can find 
is that sysiggv2 must be kept as a reserve to do so.

Looking for others that have had to do this.

One question I had was, what happens on a ispf 3.4 when the data set is part of 
the catalog but exists in another system?  Ief238d?

Thanks,

Rob Schramm

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