Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
Well, I also worked for Volvo. In Poland, Wrocław. Hint: Volvo is swedish company, but they also have Renault trucks. So, polish guys in Wrocław worked on swedish terminal emulator to connect to french mainframes with french messages from some exits (ridiculous IMHO). Polish guys called it "Ratatouille". However I liked this company and atmosphere. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 12.06.2020 o 23:36, Bob Bridges pisze: Volvo Truck NA, for whom I worked 14 years, had a sort of DOS-101 class for all our end users who were trying to figure out how to use the PCs newly on their desks. Some of them actually seemed to pay attention, and came back to their cubicles understanding, for instance, what a root directory is and why it isn't a good idea to have all their documents there. So they'd start looking through their hard drive's root directory and deleting old stuff. Harvard-Graphics documents: move them or delete them. Old WordPerfect documents: if they're old enough, dump 'em. Here are a couple of utilities they never got around to using: Delete them. COMMAND.COM ... wait, "COMMAND.COM"? What's that? Another utility I never use; out it goes. This is not the end of the world. Any copy of COMMAND.COM will work; there's no need to carefully match the correct version with the OS on the victim's machine. But one day a coworker was leaving our location, on his way to the 3rd floor to replace someone's COMMAND.COM and loudly wondering why the #!$@ users couldn't leave their %#@* files the @#*&! alone. I expostulated: "Randy, relax. This is an easy fix. And these guys who're doing this, they're the guys that'll learn eventually, and be..." well, one of the users Mr Metz admonishes us (correctly) to cherish. "In six months you'll be able to talk to this guy on the phone, instead of looking over his shoulder, and say "I dunno, maybe it's in the Windows directory; go look there", instead of saying "Ok, type this: cee dee colon backslash ess wye [and so on]...have you hit yet? Hit ...". I like the knowledgeable ones better. The others give us the entertaining horror stories, but I don't mind investing time in training the ones who want to learn. That's actually one of the things I found most rewarding about end-user support. What ended up driving me out were the users who steadfastly declined to have their problems explained. (If you're playing on-line games and run across a character named "Teacher", there's a good chance it's me.) --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* I think everyone who chooses to stay out of politics (which is your right) should make a mental note of where they would draw the line and feel it necessary to get involved. Then ask yourself: Is it possible that point already arrived, but it happened too slowly to notice? -Chris Evans */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:39 On the flip side, there are some users who know what they are doing and give you the data that you need to resolve the problem. Cherish them. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN . == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the law and may be penalised. mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
Some of the entertaining horror stories were not funny at the time. Take the JES2 and TSO Command Package packaging errors, thinly disguised at http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3/humor/PUT.Process.html; I was definitely not amused at the time. My favorite was "But COBOL doesn't use registers." -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bob Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 5:36 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") Volvo Truck NA, for whom I worked 14 years, had a sort of DOS-101 class for all our end users who were trying to figure out how to use the PCs newly on their desks. Some of them actually seemed to pay attention, and came back to their cubicles understanding, for instance, what a root directory is and why it isn't a good idea to have all their documents there. So they'd start looking through their hard drive's root directory and deleting old stuff. Harvard-Graphics documents: move them or delete them. Old WordPerfect documents: if they're old enough, dump 'em. Here are a couple of utilities they never got around to using: Delete them. COMMAND.COM ... wait, "COMMAND.COM"? What's that? Another utility I never use; out it goes. This is not the end of the world. Any copy of COMMAND.COM will work; there's no need to carefully match the correct version with the OS on the victim's machine. But one day a coworker was leaving our location, on his way to the 3rd floor to replace someone's COMMAND.COM and loudly wondering why the #!$@ users couldn't leave their %#@* files the @#*&! alone. I expostulated: "Randy, relax. This is an easy fix. And these guys who're doing this, they're the guys that'll learn eventually, and be..." well, one of the users Mr Metz admonishes us (correctly) to cherish. "In six months you'll be able to talk to this guy on the phone, instead of looking over his shoulder, and say "I dunno, maybe it's in the Windows directory; go look there", instead of saying "Ok, type this: cee dee colon backslash ess wye [and so on]...have you hit yet? Hit ...". I like the knowledgeable ones better. The others give us the entertaining horror stories, but I don't mind investing time in training the ones who want to learn. That's actually one of the things I found most rewarding about end-user support. What ended up driving me out were the users who steadfastly declined to have their problems explained. (If you're playing on-line games and run across a character named "Teacher", there's a good chance it's me.) --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* I think everyone who chooses to stay out of politics (which is your right) should make a mental note of where they would draw the line and feel it necessary to get involved. Then ask yourself: Is it possible that point already arrived, but it happened too slowly to notice? -Chris Evans */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:39 On the flip side, there are some users who know what they are doing and give you the data that you need to resolve the problem. Cherish them. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
Volvo Truck NA, for whom I worked 14 years, had a sort of DOS-101 class for all our end users who were trying to figure out how to use the PCs newly on their desks. Some of them actually seemed to pay attention, and came back to their cubicles understanding, for instance, what a root directory is and why it isn't a good idea to have all their documents there. So they'd start looking through their hard drive's root directory and deleting old stuff. Harvard-Graphics documents: move them or delete them. Old WordPerfect documents: if they're old enough, dump 'em. Here are a couple of utilities they never got around to using: Delete them. COMMAND.COM ... wait, "COMMAND.COM"? What's that? Another utility I never use; out it goes. This is not the end of the world. Any copy of COMMAND.COM will work; there's no need to carefully match the correct version with the OS on the victim's machine. But one day a coworker was leaving our location, on his way to the 3rd floor to replace someone's COMMAND.COM and loudly wondering why the #!$@ users couldn't leave their %#@* files the @#*&! alone. I expostulated: "Randy, relax. This is an easy fix. And these guys who're doing this, they're the guys that'll learn eventually, and be..." well, one of the users Mr Metz admonishes us (correctly) to cherish. "In six months you'll be able to talk to this guy on the phone, instead of looking over his shoulder, and say "I dunno, maybe it's in the Windows directory; go look there", instead of saying "Ok, type this: cee dee colon backslash ess wye [and so on]...have you hit yet? Hit ...". I like the knowledgeable ones better. The others give us the entertaining horror stories, but I don't mind investing time in training the ones who want to learn. That's actually one of the things I found most rewarding about end-user support. What ended up driving me out were the users who steadfastly declined to have their problems explained. (If you're playing on-line games and run across a character named "Teacher", there's a good chance it's me.) --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* I think everyone who chooses to stay out of politics (which is your right) should make a mental note of where they would draw the line and feel it necessary to get involved. Then ask yourself: Is it possible that point already arrived, but it happened too slowly to notice? -Chris Evans */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:39 On the flip side, there are some users who know what they are doing and give you the data that you need to resolve the problem. Cherish them. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
Many years ago when my organization was developing thousands of online screens for our IMS applications, I tried to get our screen design standards committee to implement a standard that would have required a message id to appear beside every error message displayed on the screen. They flatly refused to consider the idea. On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 12:39 Seymour J Metz wrote: > I was once involved with a lady who had been director of user support, and > thought that she deserved a medal for putting up with it. > > On the flip side, there are some users who know what they are doing and > give you the data that you need to resolve the problem. Cherish them. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > of R.S. [r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl] > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 7:23 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire > mainframes") > > W dniu 12.06.2020 o 12:59, Seymour J Metz pisze: > > Well, if they come from a world where there is no messages manual, it > may not occur to them to RTFM; that should be part of their initial > training, but we all know how generous education budgets are these days. > > I teach mainframe courses in Poland, including "Mainframe and z/OS > Introduction". One of the topics I present is documentation, messages, > and WAY OF WORK. I really need to explain it is good idea to read > sysout, analyze messages, check them in documentation. > People are trying to use google, of course not for "IEC030I", but rather > for "my job fails - IEBGENER is broken". And they are looking for some > forum where other newbies answer incorrectly to bad questions. ;-) > As a "bonus" topic on JCL course we have problem investigation - I have > several cases with typical errors and the task is to find the > explanation in the documentation. OK, find and *understand*. > > > -- > Radoslaw Skorupka > Lodz, Poland > > > > > > == > > Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: > > - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), > - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub > zapisałeś na dysku). > Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może > wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia > (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, > narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. > > mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, > <https://www.google.com/maps/search/,+ul.+Senatorska+18,+?entry=gmail=g>00-950 > Warszawa, > http://secure-web.cisco.com/1L9zMAWn44gXBosl23ryFmmZRlPD7Hv5DJW4XkIYhu4U-bJHTAkbq1IflALO_5lB90MpKRZRiY4EGohWX0pPn7Ei9qIFrpdjqjOHwNHJJefm6AcRkT6_TG3Z7stIm88b_S0PQijMnusrQbWUGpgHAQHK92hFNITpR9VlVTVAwouUfUdQxKHpURC4AVi25z5Sq-3RPqdUjXbZeqf8XHmPLt4sh0V_E2lD4TFsSLvTcrkhXq7P8gaN26Cf8aJTiXV5IfftDORgfSvc6rCJpQPvyaaJIvdD_smHOa3pYMecsPFoRe6hXZoG4N1gHjE-YAAapcKnIDOIXEmxOj_4gEjs8aAlta0olJCQq4tkyDqQEBzRbLhgjbdlTNNSmw9T7TUhJmFgH5PndgF2R-AK-oYsj2JFbpiPliOO_WaCcvmWNJhrM_gtwRCQZv0pp3E4TgvP5/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mBank.pl, > e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział > Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: > 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na > 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. > > If you are not the addressee of this message: > > - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), > - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have > printed out or saved). > This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used > exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who > disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar > action, violates the law and may be penalised. > > mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, > <https://www.google.com/maps/search/,+ul.+Senatorska+18,+?entry=gmail=g>00-950 > Warszawa, > http://secure-web.cisco.com/1L9zMAWn44gXBosl23ryFmmZRlPD7Hv5DJW4XkIYhu4U-bJHTAkbq1IflALO_5lB90MpKRZRiY4EGohWX0pPn7Ei9qIFrpdjqjOHwNHJJefm6AcRkT6_TG3Z7stIm88b_S0PQijMnusrQbWUGpgHAQHK92hFNITpR9VlVTVAwouUfUdQxKHpURC4AVi25z5Sq-3RPqdUjXbZeqf8XHmPLt4sh0V_E2lD4TFsSLvTcrkhXq7P8gaN26Cf8aJTiXV5IfftDORgfSvc6rCJpQPvyaaJIvdD_smHOa3pYMecsPFoRe6hXZoG4N1gHjE-YAAapcKnIDOIXEmxOj_4gEjs8aAlta0olJCQq4tkyDqQEBzRbLhgjbdlTNNSmw9T7TUhJmFgH5PndgF2R-AK-oYsj2JFbpiPliOO_WaCcvmWNJhrM_gtwRCQZv0pp3E4TgvP5/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mBank.pl, > e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Ca
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
I was once involved with a lady who had been director of user support, and thought that she deserved a medal for putting up with it. On the flip side, there are some users who know what they are doing and give you the data that you need to resolve the problem. Cherish them. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of R.S. [r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl] Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 7:23 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") W dniu 12.06.2020 o 12:59, Seymour J Metz pisze: > Well, if they come from a world where there is no messages manual, it may not > occur to them to RTFM; that should be part of their initial training, but we > all know how generous education budgets are these days. I teach mainframe courses in Poland, including "Mainframe and z/OS Introduction". One of the topics I present is documentation, messages, and WAY OF WORK. I really need to explain it is good idea to read sysout, analyze messages, check them in documentation. People are trying to use google, of course not for "IEC030I", but rather for "my job fails - IEBGENER is broken". And they are looking for some forum where other newbies answer incorrectly to bad questions. ;-) As a "bonus" topic on JCL course we have problem investigation - I have several cases with typical errors and the task is to find the explanation in the documentation. OK, find and *understand*. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,http://secure-web.cisco.com/1L9zMAWn44gXBosl23ryFmmZRlPD7Hv5DJW4XkIYhu4U-bJHTAkbq1IflALO_5lB90MpKRZRiY4EGohWX0pPn7Ei9qIFrpdjqjOHwNHJJefm6AcRkT6_TG3Z7stIm88b_S0PQijMnusrQbWUGpgHAQHK92hFNITpR9VlVTVAwouUfUdQxKHpURC4AVi25z5Sq-3RPqdUjXbZeqf8XHmPLt4sh0V_E2lD4TFsSLvTcrkhXq7P8gaN26Cf8aJTiXV5IfftDORgfSvc6rCJpQPvyaaJIvdD_smHOa3pYMecsPFoRe6hXZoG4N1gHjE-YAAapcKnIDOIXEmxOj_4gEjs8aAlta0olJCQq4tkyDqQEBzRbLhgjbdlTNNSmw9T7TUhJmFgH5PndgF2R-AK-oYsj2JFbpiPliOO_WaCcvmWNJhrM_gtwRCQZv0pp3E4TgvP5/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the law and may be penalised. mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,http://secure-web.cisco.com/1L9zMAWn44gXBosl23ryFmmZRlPD7Hv5DJW4XkIYhu4U-bJHTAkbq1IflALO_5lB90MpKRZRiY4EGohWX0pPn7Ei9qIFrpdjqjOHwNHJJefm6AcRkT6_TG3Z7stIm88b_S0PQijMnusrQbWUGpgHAQHK92hFNITpR9VlVTVAwouUfUdQxKHpURC4AVi25z5Sq-3RPqdUjXbZeqf8XHmPLt4sh0V_E2lD4TFsSLvTcrkhXq7P8gaN26Cf8aJTiXV5IfftDORgfSvc6rCJpQPvyaaJIvdD_smHOa3pYMecsPFoRe6hXZoG4N1gHjE-YAAapcKnIDOIXEmxOj_4gEjs8aAlta0olJCQq4tkyDqQEBzRbLhgjbdlTNNSmw9T7TUhJmFgH5PndgF2R-AK-oYsj2JFbpiPliOO_WaCcvmWNJhrM_gtwRCQZv0pp3E4TgvP5/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
Did he get his start as a Tech Writer for COBOL (E)? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Herring, Bobby [bherr...@txfb-ins.com] Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:23 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") We used to run a product called SPIFFY by Isogon. It was bought by IBM and renamed to Dataset Commander. I was actually told by the IBMer supporting the product that they didn't have a messages manual. He said the messages were self-explanatory. And he was serious. I tried to explain that if they were truly that self-explanatory, then I wouldn't be opening incidents with them for problems. Bobby Herring Texas Farm Bureau Insurance From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 6:02 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") CAUTION: This email message originated from outside the organization. Do not click on links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. > 4. Message description in the book is more than "Something is wrong. Try again later". That may be true now: I still recall with rage "The following messages are self explanatory." -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz [http://secure-web.cisco.com/18w9NIprfVfmEn1Oozof2EaxrwO8nCMxU5L4MVMCykMtC3xrvmdoNiU7VgJo427-qwV5vbA-IFNJp3LhFL2g7XSMNh5aafnrW4h8v01GFSy7uJWGotGrutdSqf2euDU_tKe1vsxXgUe9D8a13hl43qk8q4wQGA7lTHKqsCzchq3zFn796S3NL2P_9G0779dYZqO-q3Yze9kJcrg7yFEsN0LoNBbZuFVjqCzUib6Ryf0S_j4CjAKEmEaMeGeVrCdFHsSn7EWnTB3jFKmAaTt1C5mzeMAwfMw3p9d7YVNlepCUKkZ_95DV45l4R9Z8vzMXw0mMRpue3ZC-Eb3d2XIEEec8kCX1rneRFZMcZjL7fS7vNg3BwnNsIAfNy_zJeB6tcigth_mVRkTdGxJHCaGM62wmOTcNbXKTvAYs21KANNyp1ID1uMAdrurEdz_EdYSs8/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.txfb-ins.com%2FTFBICImages%2Fjdpower.jpg] http://secure-web.cisco.com/1KA__pf3Y-lIixjWfMiART9oVESn-lxiareUORQgTpCOUMx4QT2P8qnGkSO7BjthCbZf9I_RWzOu3jrpsKqXyP5IJG0W5wIpuIFU8tvYk7Scjvn7EX82D2xJN1EZneVT_8AXldmBmglq8fXNgrr81WjYZHo0QTQnrPOu0vCTszT8sbuhFcFBzfrwK4X2G2Kh1lvcr9IaIrU4Wn2ynNfT7YLArzuFDVGJlyBkXqSMKcQOY4Dxa6By4xuzC3cgWXxkEFXOJyrBHbItAq-Og3Cr0twuwjnaLiaCzmtilaKuDSOFMwrb0Oy2NQHzRKsu4zigyjl4PHMNWsI7I4n2f-0zGxdFbj3twFCXfrRgEb3Reaqj-vdo-O6Rh7T9v4a6OUBi9hricZs9sH4VxeKNDGz9M82tSYsfwfBMOwWHrtTezK8_iz5tLtdygn2t03cNhBGjr/http%3A%2F%2FWWW.TXFB-INS.COM<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1u28hkWB0EEP3RCmoijv-CETqeYnXWHcauEZvwQdp5PdZbi3PcLuktQnYQxxgNfh2hiQq0FfuZ_DVCrm9UY-uQdbJrD3Prh1CWWRVja9OJRmj1bLvXf3u9BXcGpjhV345uWkdjcTWiWz9rGkbZKUb6Hw_gODBWbFJWUv2koIhOcIDsFnKBwnh3G5Fu4ok6FniYZG7uf4Rt2icVc62LMPaRnfrT9QIWOIIac25wHgk3K6BiY2yMJF_Uw94acY6Zpk-WYOh_tEr1reE2oXMYTxLJQEhp0ybQvMwiLXKXkOrPKz1eECSClEl-nglqwJDhFuXE9AgcMxpMt2uVlrOaop8MjDmv3w_26EGEyQ3ZDk6oh2EEB4j-HVUFKsNc0psdAyuaIKlkFM6F-o3BKl_THwqUXGCk8RsYY1XBbA55hjwwNCkBYdf-uWumgTf7MRkKFzw/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.txfb-ins.com> CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT: The foregoing message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communication Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. sections 2510-2521, and is CONFIDENTIAL. If you believe that it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete it. Thank you. ' -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
It's not the users -- they want the original (i.e., in this case, English) documentation. It is fussbudgets in purchasing or legal. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of R.S. Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 4:34 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") Well... The only country I can imagine such approach is France. I don't know Japan, so I cannot say. However I met mainrame people from South America and they told me they orderd and use English documentation due to quality (Spanish doco is horrible - they said). I have never heard about such problems from Swedish, German or Italian folks. Even guys in UK use IBM documentation and understand it! Almost without complaints. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
We used to run a product called SPIFFY by Isogon. It was bought by IBM and renamed to Dataset Commander. I was actually told by the IBMer supporting the product that they didn't have a messages manual. He said the messages were self-explanatory. And he was serious. I tried to explain that if they were truly that self-explanatory, then I wouldn't be opening incidents with them for problems. Bobby Herring Texas Farm Bureau Insurance From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 6:02 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") CAUTION: This email message originated from outside the organization. Do not click on links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. > 4. Message description in the book is more than "Something is wrong. Try again later". That may be true now: I still recall with rage "The following messages are self explanatory." -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz [http://www.txfb-ins.com/TFBICImages/jdpower.jpg] WWW.TXFB-INS.COM<http://www.txfb-ins.com> CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT: The foregoing message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communication Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. sections 2510-2521, and is CONFIDENTIAL. If you believe that it has been sent to you in error, do not read it. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete it. Thank you. ' -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
Well... The only country I can imagine such approach is France. I don't know Japan, so I cannot say. However I met mainrame people from South America and they told me they orderd and use English documentation due to quality (Spanish doco is horrible - they said). I have never heard about such problems from Swedish, German or Italian folks. Even guys in UK use IBM documentation and understand it! Almost without complaints. (no offence intended) -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 11.06.2020 o 16:12, Charles Mills pisze: You have to understand national politics: "we won't buy this product; the error messages are in English" [not French, Japanese, etc.] Even though you are of course right, "diskette in drive" is more understandable to the average French speaker than !! Sys01475 Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Timothy Sipples Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 1:42 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") This pair of error messages was a design mistake: OS/2 !! Sys01475 OS/2 !! Sys02027 That's a case of national language considerations run amok. That was the only pair of messages you saw on your screen when you formatted a diskette with OS/2, left the diskette in the primary drive, and rebooted the typical PC of that era (that didn't automatically try to boot from another device when there was a diskette in the primary drive). A diskette's boot sector doesn't have much room, so the designers had to be concise. They wanted to include at least one error code, and they did. But then instead of some portion of the planet not understanding what happened, very nearly the entire planet didn't understand what happened. :-) A better design would have used a global message like this: OS/2 SYS01475: Diskette in Drive! That's exactly the same number of characters, assuming the new line was one character. (If not, the colon could have been omitted.) Yes, "Diskette in Drive!" is technically English, but even so it would have been much more broadly, globally understood than mystery error codes. == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the law and may be penalised. mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
W dniu 12.06.2020 o 12:59, Seymour J Metz pisze: Well, if they come from a world where there is no messages manual, it may not occur to them to RTFM; that should be part of their initial training, but we all know how generous education budgets are these days. I teach mainframe courses in Poland, including "Mainframe and z/OS Introduction". One of the topics I present is documentation, messages, and WAY OF WORK. I really need to explain it is good idea to read sysout, analyze messages, check them in documentation. People are trying to use google, of course not for "IEC030I", but rather for "my job fails - IEBGENER is broken". And they are looking for some forum where other newbies answer incorrectly to bad questions. ;-) As a "bonus" topic on JCL course we have problem investigation - I have several cases with typical errors and the task is to find the explanation in the documentation. OK, find and *understand*. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the law and may be penalised. mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
> 4. Message description in the book is more than "Something is wrong. Try again later". That may be true now: I still recall with rage "The following messages are self explanatory." -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of R.S. [r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl] Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 4:51 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") Well, I wrote an article on my internal company blog, recently. It was exactly about messages and codes. People couldn't believe in some statements: 1. Every message has its own ID. Fortunately readers agreed that msg ID is far better than "Oops! Something went wrong, try again later". 2. Every message is documented, and there is "Messages and Codes" bookshelf. And there are books and even bookshelves. And it was available from Internet for 20+ years. 3. Every message ID has prefix which clearly describes that it comes from CICS, DB2, RACF... (DFH, DSN, ICH...) 4. Message description in the book is more than "Something is wrong. Try again later". 5. Return code has meaning. It is more than "zero vs non-zero" RC. I wish I could put here some pictures with funny/annoying Windows messages here. ;-) -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 10.06.2020 o 22:02, Steve Smith pisze: > I take this example as merely an example. IBM & the software industry are > notoriously bad at getting these right. > > At one end, you have "Oops, something went wrong." -- Windows 10 (and > yeah, the day I started using Windows 10). > > At the other, IDC3009I. Sheesh. > > Counter to those, the IMS message doesn't seem quite so bad... it's > (presumably) accurate, and fairly precise. You could argue it could be > worded more simply, or that it should provide the detailed codes. > > In my experience, messages get very little attention or quality review. > I'm sure it varies a lot. > > sas > > On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 3:50 PM Paul Gilmartin < > 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > >> On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 17:02:40 +, Frank Swarbrick wrote: >> >>> Here's a quote from a message I posted to this list in 2009: >>> >>> "I have a very basic one to complain about: >>> >>> DFS0929I BLDL FAILED FOR MEMBER --DDMPPSZ >>> >>> This really means that the specified PSB DDMPPSZ is not in the specified >> IMS library. Why can't it just say that? As an application programmer do >> I really need to know that BLDL means, well, whatever it means? >> The practice was established over a half century ago when every programmer >> could be presumed to have at least a superficial knowledge of the entire >> OS/360 >> reference library. And storage was too precious to support elaborate >> messages. >> >> That time has passed. >> >> The practice persists. >> >> -- gil >> == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,http://secure-web.cisco.com/1-o52lOIUVmrpRRB2evtM2aDfHTi7CkCC-0kWD68a2sG-eAou-XjkB2OaML2ka-5IWhf6Uiw7xuyYJYkoauV66tw5jUbF1xklR-4oLO5TvL353wvpksA8Ac4haRBI7lfv0zAEP-lrWPaEGBPIh8asL80fU2FU6nS8K79i9Q3cqqfR7jZdDVOXVS8b1nGysK8tHieZxjRJl1MDdOtKWLwwc2VFazJeaRrwqhbA5yLMxmGjdk_DqqyrFzUxBh47xltb-wWNmCOvYlQd7aaqWsSyrUM-MYGC9d8yjtmYj3ezEV5Hmlipf9PlkPrEpZh1OrHogHE-x3K42ZdMEP2XYXc9gra4nh9vumLJvQj_sKxuzoeTF54PHIpdRCDYopgkrsuM3OJiQi9CAqTur63dIUDTPB5wBUCVdwStEmZ8x8dqScJWINdXhHH5ylGtk-KBVELG/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this mess
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
Well, if they come from a world where there is no messages manual, it may not occur to them to RTFM; that should be part of their initial training, but we all know how generous education budgets are these days. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Martin Packer [martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com] Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 5:23 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") I wonder, though, whether newbies can easily tell the difference between eg "DFS" and "DFH". Particularly poignant, that pair. :-) So we all know "ICH" and, latterly "IRR", (FSVO "latterly" :-) ) are RACF. But do newbies pick this up quickly? Cheers, Martin Martin Packer zChampion, Systems Investigator & Performance Troubleshooter, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://secure-web.cisco.com/18ahigRwLqngX6Mic0Nh_MNiy4lVK_laNQFjota3lKOAOrKYUeLiNuY0X2KbwUMr3FwtR6AEcgmtJRaeeS5MXShAfkaRb6jIDR6yFDHVX6tu-CpVjW7RywWoSGQiwCIR1sWVAozyfeLzqCeRUWQ9n81U-Ki9LqsG1VZ3Zbwh4v5vKFJ8o1yIELsSS2ZrV1b9H5CmCxAX8eibNqrWm2JYg-Akd5mIzgHTOaon4wXVz1H1blluzSIpyf2fdQZmIIo-1HURZLFKantP_gsI8MOGgcjAJcS2FmFLOSYGHohpfhrdYTH1_O04B0um7VPeiZ3YZ1sK_nZ3VAWD7R1r8MHs6-d61nEPdNsbVR4i6Uw598pYqtprTiNmhk2PI6OFroSyMdX8mTY64SVO89pWGikLY0FCtGt2yq2dn2VBYm1wKLB9eJdWRy9yKVAV390LhUSv1/https%3A%2F%2Fmainframeperformancetopics.com Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://developer.ibm.com/tv/mpt/or https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mainframe-performance-topics/id1127943573?mt=2 Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA From: "R.S." To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 12/06/2020 09:51 Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List Well, I wrote an article on my internal company blog, recently. It was exactly about messages and codes. People couldn't believe in some statements: 1. Every message has its own ID. Fortunately readers agreed that msg ID is far better than "Oops! Something went wrong, try again later". 2. Every message is documented, and there is "Messages and Codes" bookshelf. And there are books and even bookshelves. And it was available from Internet for 20+ years. 3. Every message ID has prefix which clearly describes that it comes from CICS, DB2, RACF... (DFH, DSN, ICH...) 4. Message description in the book is more than "Something is wrong. Try again later". 5. Return code has meaning. It is more than "zero vs non-zero" RC. I wish I could put here some pictures with funny/annoying Windows messages here. ;-) -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 10.06.2020 o 22:02, Steve Smith pisze: > I take this example as merely an example. IBM & the software industry are > notoriously bad at getting these right. > > At one end, you have "Oops, something went wrong." -- Windows 10 (and > yeah, the day I started using Windows 10). > > At the other, IDC3009I. Sheesh. > > Counter to those, the IMS message doesn't seem quite so bad... it's > (presumably) accurate, and fairly precise. You could argue it could be > worded more simply, or that it should provide the detailed codes. > > In my experience, messages get very little attention or quality review. > I'm sure it varies a lot. > > sas > > On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 3:50 PM Paul Gilmartin < > 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > >> On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 17:02:40 +, Frank Swarbrick wrote: >> >>> Here's a quote from a message I posted to this list in 2009: >>> >>> "I have a very basic one to complain about: >>> >>> DFS0929I BLDL FAILED FOR MEMBER --DDMPPSZ >>> >>> This really means that the specified PSB DDMPPSZ is not in the specified >> IMS library. Why can't it just say that? As an application programmer do >> I really need to know that BLDL means, well, whatever it means? >> The practice was established over a half century ago when every programmer >> could be presumed to have at least a superficial knowledge of the entire >> OS/360 >> reference library. And storage was too precious to support elaborate >> messages. >> >> That time has passed. >> >> The practice persists. >> >> -- gil >> == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wyd
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
I wonder, though, whether newbies can easily tell the difference between eg "DFS" and "DFH". Particularly poignant, that pair. :-) So we all know "ICH" and, latterly "IRR", (FSVO "latterly" :-) ) are RACF. But do newbies pick this up quickly? Cheers, Martin Martin Packer zChampion, Systems Investigator & Performance Troubleshooter, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://mainframeperformancetopics.com Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://developer.ibm.com/tv/mpt/or https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mainframe-performance-topics/id1127943573?mt=2 Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA From: "R.S." To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 12/06/2020 09:51 Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List Well, I wrote an article on my internal company blog, recently. It was exactly about messages and codes. People couldn't believe in some statements: 1. Every message has its own ID. Fortunately readers agreed that msg ID is far better than "Oops! Something went wrong, try again later". 2. Every message is documented, and there is "Messages and Codes" bookshelf. And there are books and even bookshelves. And it was available from Internet for 20+ years. 3. Every message ID has prefix which clearly describes that it comes from CICS, DB2, RACF... (DFH, DSN, ICH...) 4. Message description in the book is more than "Something is wrong. Try again later". 5. Return code has meaning. It is more than "zero vs non-zero" RC. I wish I could put here some pictures with funny/annoying Windows messages here. ;-) -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 10.06.2020 o 22:02, Steve Smith pisze: > I take this example as merely an example. IBM & the software industry are > notoriously bad at getting these right. > > At one end, you have "Oops, something went wrong." -- Windows 10 (and > yeah, the day I started using Windows 10). > > At the other, IDC3009I. Sheesh. > > Counter to those, the IMS message doesn't seem quite so bad... it's > (presumably) accurate, and fairly precise. You could argue it could be > worded more simply, or that it should provide the detailed codes. > > In my experience, messages get very little attention or quality review. > I'm sure it varies a lot. > > sas > > On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 3:50 PM Paul Gilmartin < > 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > >> On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 17:02:40 +, Frank Swarbrick wrote: >> >>> Here's a quote from a message I posted to this list in 2009: >>> >>> "I have a very basic one to complain about: >>> >>> DFS0929I BLDL FAILED FOR MEMBER --DDMPPSZ >>> >>> This really means that the specified PSB DDMPPSZ is not in the specified >> IMS library. Why can't it just say that? As an application programmer do >> I really need to know that BLDL means, well, whatever it means? >> The practice was established over a half century ago when every programmer >> could be presumed to have at least a superficial knowledge of the entire >> OS/360 >> reference library. And storage was too precious to support elaborate >> messages. >> >> That time has passed. >> >> The practice persists. >> >> -- gil >> == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the law and ma
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
Well, I wrote an article on my internal company blog, recently. It was exactly about messages and codes. People couldn't believe in some statements: 1. Every message has its own ID. Fortunately readers agreed that msg ID is far better than "Oops! Something went wrong, try again later". 2. Every message is documented, and there is "Messages and Codes" bookshelf. And there are books and even bookshelves. And it was available from Internet for 20+ years. 3. Every message ID has prefix which clearly describes that it comes from CICS, DB2, RACF... (DFH, DSN, ICH...) 4. Message description in the book is more than "Something is wrong. Try again later". 5. Return code has meaning. It is more than "zero vs non-zero" RC. I wish I could put here some pictures with funny/annoying Windows messages here. ;-) -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 10.06.2020 o 22:02, Steve Smith pisze: I take this example as merely an example. IBM & the software industry are notoriously bad at getting these right. At one end, you have "Oops, something went wrong." -- Windows 10 (and yeah, the day I started using Windows 10). At the other, IDC3009I. Sheesh. Counter to those, the IMS message doesn't seem quite so bad... it's (presumably) accurate, and fairly precise. You could argue it could be worded more simply, or that it should provide the detailed codes. In my experience, messages get very little attention or quality review. I'm sure it varies a lot. sas On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 3:50 PM Paul Gilmartin < 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 17:02:40 +, Frank Swarbrick wrote: Here's a quote from a message I posted to this list in 2009: "I have a very basic one to complain about: DFS0929I BLDL FAILED FOR MEMBER --DDMPPSZ This really means that the specified PSB DDMPPSZ is not in the specified IMS library. Why can't it just say that? As an application programmer do I really need to know that BLDL means, well, whatever it means? The practice was established over a half century ago when every programmer could be presumed to have at least a superficial knowledge of the entire OS/360 reference library. And storage was too precious to support elaborate messages. That time has passed. The practice persists. -- gil == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the law and may be penalised. mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
Nope! -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 10:04 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.] Any message whose action is given as "contact your systems programmer" is just as bad. Has IBM finally gotten rid of all of those? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fmason.gmu.edu%2F~smetz3data=02%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7C5d87b6ba82604e73cc9308d80e18af0c%7C189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C637274846480687573sdata=u4EfCy7ayukIXREJxmztud3J1hWr7ajxrlmgk56KWpc%3Dreserved=0 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Timothy Sipples [sipp...@sg.ibm.com] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") This pair of error messages was a design mistake: OS/2 !! Sys01475 OS/2 !! Sys02027 That's a case of national language considerations run amok. That was the only pair of messages you saw on your screen when you formatted a diskette with OS/2, left the diskette in the primary drive, and rebooted the typical PC of that era (that didn't automatically try to boot from another device when there was a diskette in the primary drive). A diskette's boot sector doesn't have much room, so the designers had to be concise. They wanted to include at least one error code, and they did. But then instead of some portion of the planet not understanding what happened, very nearly the entire planet didn't understand what happened. :-) A better design would have used a global message like this: OS/2 SYS01475: Diskette in Drive! That's exactly the same number of characters, assuming the new line was one character. (If not, the colon could have been omitted.) Yes, "Diskette in Drive!" is technically English, but even so it would have been much more broadly, globally understood than mystery error codes. Even this one would have been better: OS/2 SYS01475 Unbootable Diskette Or: SYS01475: Data Diskette in Drive! Pretty much anything with the word "Diskette" (the term IBM preferred instead of "Floppy") would have given users a clue. Even this: OS/2 !! Sys01475 No Boot Diskette - - - - - - - - - - Timothy Sipples I.T. Architect Executive Digital Asset & Other Industry Solutions IBM Z & LinuxONE - - - - - - - - - - E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ::DISCLAIMER:: The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
Any message whose action is given as "contact your systems programmer" is just as bad. Has IBM finally gotten rid of all of those? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Timothy Sipples [sipp...@sg.ibm.com] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") This pair of error messages was a design mistake: OS/2 !! Sys01475 OS/2 !! Sys02027 That's a case of national language considerations run amok. That was the only pair of messages you saw on your screen when you formatted a diskette with OS/2, left the diskette in the primary drive, and rebooted the typical PC of that era (that didn't automatically try to boot from another device when there was a diskette in the primary drive). A diskette's boot sector doesn't have much room, so the designers had to be concise. They wanted to include at least one error code, and they did. But then instead of some portion of the planet not understanding what happened, very nearly the entire planet didn't understand what happened. :-) A better design would have used a global message like this: OS/2 SYS01475: Diskette in Drive! That's exactly the same number of characters, assuming the new line was one character. (If not, the colon could have been omitted.) Yes, "Diskette in Drive!" is technically English, but even so it would have been much more broadly, globally understood than mystery error codes. Even this one would have been better: OS/2 SYS01475 Unbootable Diskette Or: SYS01475: Data Diskette in Drive! Pretty much anything with the word "Diskette" (the term IBM preferred instead of "Floppy") would have given users a clue. Even this: OS/2 !! Sys01475 No Boot Diskette - - - - - - - - - - Timothy Sipples I.T. Architect Executive Digital Asset & Other Industry Solutions IBM Z & LinuxONE - - - - - - - - - - E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
When IBM started using pictures instead of text in their assembly instructions, I coinded the phrase "International icons: unintelligible in any language." The concept, of course, applies to software, not just to printed product assembly instruction, and indisputably not just IBM. BTW, would it hurt when the product assembly involves bolts and screws to specify how much torque to apply? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org] Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 10:12 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") You have to understand national politics: "we won't buy this product; the error messages are in English" [not French, Japanese, etc.] Even though you are of course right, "diskette in drive" is more understandable to the average French speaker than !! Sys01475 Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Timothy Sipples Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 1:42 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") This pair of error messages was a design mistake: OS/2 !! Sys01475 OS/2 !! Sys02027 That's a case of national language considerations run amok. That was the only pair of messages you saw on your screen when you formatted a diskette with OS/2, left the diskette in the primary drive, and rebooted the typical PC of that era (that didn't automatically try to boot from another device when there was a diskette in the primary drive). A diskette's boot sector doesn't have much room, so the designers had to be concise. They wanted to include at least one error code, and they did. But then instead of some portion of the planet not understanding what happened, very nearly the entire planet didn't understand what happened. :-) A better design would have used a global message like this: OS/2 SYS01475: Diskette in Drive! That's exactly the same number of characters, assuming the new line was one character. (If not, the colon could have been omitted.) Yes, "Diskette in Drive!" is technically English, but even so it would have been much more broadly, globally understood than mystery error codes. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
You have to understand national politics: "we won't buy this product; the error messages are in English" [not French, Japanese, etc.] Even though you are of course right, "diskette in drive" is more understandable to the average French speaker than !! Sys01475 Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Timothy Sipples Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 1:42 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") This pair of error messages was a design mistake: OS/2 !! Sys01475 OS/2 !! Sys02027 That's a case of national language considerations run amok. That was the only pair of messages you saw on your screen when you formatted a diskette with OS/2, left the diskette in the primary drive, and rebooted the typical PC of that era (that didn't automatically try to boot from another device when there was a diskette in the primary drive). A diskette's boot sector doesn't have much room, so the designers had to be concise. They wanted to include at least one error code, and they did. But then instead of some portion of the planet not understanding what happened, very nearly the entire planet didn't understand what happened. :-) A better design would have used a global message like this: OS/2 SYS01475: Diskette in Drive! That's exactly the same number of characters, assuming the new line was one character. (If not, the colon could have been omitted.) Yes, "Diskette in Drive!" is technically English, but even so it would have been much more broadly, globally understood than mystery error codes. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 16:42:02 +0800, Timothy Sipples wrote: >This pair of error messages was a design mistake: > >OS/2 !! Sys01475 >OS/2 !! Sys02027 > >That's a case of national language considerations run amok. ... > >A diskette's boot sector doesn't have much room, ... >:-) Please don't try to justify the inadequacy of z/OS messages by analogy with limitations imposed by the OS/2 boot sector size. It's a non sequitur. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
This pair of error messages was a design mistake: OS/2 !! Sys01475 OS/2 !! Sys02027 That's a case of national language considerations run amok. That was the only pair of messages you saw on your screen when you formatted a diskette with OS/2, left the diskette in the primary drive, and rebooted the typical PC of that era (that didn't automatically try to boot from another device when there was a diskette in the primary drive). A diskette's boot sector doesn't have much room, so the designers had to be concise. They wanted to include at least one error code, and they did. But then instead of some portion of the planet not understanding what happened, very nearly the entire planet didn't understand what happened. :-) A better design would have used a global message like this: OS/2 SYS01475: Diskette in Drive! That's exactly the same number of characters, assuming the new line was one character. (If not, the colon could have been omitted.) Yes, "Diskette in Drive!" is technically English, but even so it would have been much more broadly, globally understood than mystery error codes. Even this one would have been better: OS/2 SYS01475 Unbootable Diskette Or: SYS01475: Data Diskette in Drive! Pretty much anything with the word "Diskette" (the term IBM preferred instead of "Floppy") would have given users a clue. Even this: OS/2 !! Sys01475 No Boot Diskette - - - - - - - - - - Timothy Sipples I.T. Architect Executive Digital Asset & Other Industry Solutions IBM Z & LinuxONE - - - - - - - - - - E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
> it's (presumably) accurate, and fairly precise. It leaves you gueesing whether it's complaining about a DBD or PSB library. The IDC3009I message is more precise, albeit not user friendly, and the documentation does tell you how to respond. But still, this is the 21st century; why do we still have 19th century error messages? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Steve Smith [sasd...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 4:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes") I take this example as merely an example. IBM & the software industry are notoriously bad at getting these right. At one end, you have "Oops, something went wrong." -- Windows 10 (and yeah, the day I started using Windows 10). At the other, IDC3009I. Sheesh. Counter to those, the IMS message doesn't seem quite so bad... it's (presumably) accurate, and fairly precise. You could argue it could be worded more simply, or that it should provide the detailed codes. In my experience, messages get very little attention or quality review. I'm sure it varies a lot. sas On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 3:50 PM Paul Gilmartin < 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 17:02:40 +, Frank Swarbrick wrote: > > >Here's a quote from a message I posted to this list in 2009: > > > >"I have a very basic one to complain about: > > > >DFS0929I BLDL FAILED FOR MEMBER --DDMPPSZ > > > >This really means that the specified PSB DDMPPSZ is not in the specified > IMS library. Why can't it just say that? As an application programmer do > I really need to know that BLDL means, well, whatever it means? > > > The practice was established over a half century ago when every programmer > could be presumed to have at least a superficial knowledge of the entire > OS/360 > reference library. And storage was too precious to support elaborate > messages. > > That time has passed. > > The practice persists. > > -- gil > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Messages & Codes (was Re: "Everyone wants to retire mainframes")
I take this example as merely an example. IBM & the software industry are notoriously bad at getting these right. At one end, you have "Oops, something went wrong." -- Windows 10 (and yeah, the day I started using Windows 10). At the other, IDC3009I. Sheesh. Counter to those, the IMS message doesn't seem quite so bad... it's (presumably) accurate, and fairly precise. You could argue it could be worded more simply, or that it should provide the detailed codes. In my experience, messages get very little attention or quality review. I'm sure it varies a lot. sas On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 3:50 PM Paul Gilmartin < 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 17:02:40 +, Frank Swarbrick wrote: > > >Here's a quote from a message I posted to this list in 2009: > > > >"I have a very basic one to complain about: > > > >DFS0929I BLDL FAILED FOR MEMBER --DDMPPSZ > > > >This really means that the specified PSB DDMPPSZ is not in the specified > IMS library. Why can't it just say that? As an application programmer do > I really need to know that BLDL means, well, whatever it means? > > > The practice was established over a half century ago when every programmer > could be presumed to have at least a superficial knowledge of the entire > OS/360 > reference library. And storage was too precious to support elaborate > messages. > > That time has passed. > > The practice persists. > > -- gil > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
