Re: CCSID descriptions

[David Price]

Wikipedia used to have some great articles on each of the EBCDIC Code Pages.

In July 2020 someone marked all 120+ pages for deletion for "lack of 
notability".
In accordance with procedure, the relevant committee voted on this, and the 
majority decision was to keep the pages.
However the individual ignored the vote, and deleted all 120+ pages.

Pushback forced the individual to say they could be transwiki-ed to wikibooks 
if somebody else did it, but he showed no regret for his deletion actually 
preventing that from happening.

The revisionist history was invented that it was a consensus decision to 
delete/transwiki those pages.
Wikipedia's own logs reveal something different.

The URLs had the form  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBCDIC_500  which can be 
viewed at
https://web.archive.org/web/20200724140250/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBCDIC_500

In the case of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBCDIC_1140  it pointed to 
EBCDIC_037 as in
https://web.archive.org/web/20200712175228if_/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBCDIC_037#CP1140
because EBCDIC 1140 is just EBCDIC 037 with the square lozenge ICU 
(International Currency Unit) symbol replaced with the Euro symbol.

Attempts to reconstruct some of these deleted web pages, such as
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:EBCDIC_037   or the links in
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks:Requests_for_import/Archives/2020/September
are incomplete or misleading templates in their current state.

Strangely the same kinds of Wikipedia articles for non-EBCDIC code pages remain 
untouched.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows-1252
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Latin_character_sets_(computing)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_page_437

Was EBCDIC targeted through ignorance or malice?

My next donation to Wikipedia is scheduled for when all 120+ EBCDIC pages are 
reinstated on Wikipedia itself. 


On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 08:17:23 -0600, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 09:04:03 -0600, Norbert Friemel wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 08:58:49 +, Windt, W.K.F. van der (Fred) wrote:
>>>
>>>The IBM website used to have complete descriptions of every CCSID including 
>>>a complete overview of every character (glyph) in that CCSID with it's 
>>>encoding. Simply googling "IBM CCSID 1140" would quickly get you to the page 
>>>of CCSID 1140. The CCSID was in the url so you could quickly switch to 
>>>another CCSID by changing the url. But with the change to Knowledge Center I 
>>>can't find those pages anymore... Does anybody know where the CCCSID 
>>>descriptions have gone?
>>
>>Not a website but ... 
>>ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/software/globalization/gcoc/attachments/
>> 
>That would benefit greatly from an index mapping countries to CCSIDs.
>
>

The old website is (partly) archived @ 

I don't know how usable it is

Norbert Friemel

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Re: CCSID descriptions

[Norbert Friemel]

On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 08:17:23 -0600, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 09:04:03 -0600, Norbert Friemel wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 08:58:49 +, Windt, W.K.F. van der (Fred) wrote:
>>>
>>>The IBM website used to have complete descriptions of every CCSID including 
>>>a complete overview of every character (glyph) in that CCSID with it's 
>>>encoding. Simply googling "IBM CCSID 1140" would quickly get you to the page 
>>>of CCSID 1140. The CCSID was in the url so you could quickly switch to 
>>>another CCSID by changing the url. But with the change to Knowledge Center I 
>>>can't find those pages anymore... Does anybody know where the CCCSID 
>>>descriptions have gone?
>>
>>Not a website but ... 
>>ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/software/globalization/gcoc/attachments/
>> 
>That would benefit greatly from an index mapping countries to CCSIDs.
>
>

The old website is (partly) archived @ 

I don't know how usable it is

Norbert Friemel

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Re: CCSID descriptions

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 09:04:03 -0600, Norbert Friemel wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 08:58:49 +, Windt, W.K.F. van der (Fred) wrote:
>>
>>The IBM website used to have complete descriptions of every CCSID including a 
>>complete overview of every character (glyph) in that CCSID with it's 
>>encoding. Simply googling "IBM CCSID 1140" would quickly get you to the page 
>>of CCSID 1140. The CCSID was in the url so you could quickly switch to 
>>another CCSID by changing the url. But with the change to Knowledge Center I 
>>can't find those pages anymore... Does anybody know where the CCCSID 
>>descriptions have gone?
>
>Not a website but ... 
>ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/software/globalization/gcoc/attachments/
> 
That would benefit greatly from an index mapping countries to CCSIDs.


On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 09:16:08 -0800, Tom Brennan wrote:

>After the last time things were changed, I've been going here:
>https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSEQ5Y_5.9.0/com.ibm.pcomm.doc/reference/html/hcp_reference02.htm
>
Grrr... both of those are images rather than text, so I can't simply open,
e.g., File:CP01154.pdf, type "Ж" in a search box, and see it highlighted
at coordinate x'EC'. 

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Re: CCSID descriptions

[Windt, W.K.F. van der (Fred)]

Ah, that is at least part of the information that was previously available. 
Thank for the tip!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Tom 
Brennan
Sent: woensdag 13 januari 2021 18:16
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: CCSID descriptions

After the last time things were changed, I've been going here:

https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ibm.com%2Fsupport%2Fknowledgecenter%2FSSEQ5Y_5.9.0%2Fcom.ibm.pcomm.doc%2Freference%2Fhtml%2Fhcp_reference02.htmdata=04%7C01%7CFred.van.der.Windt%40ing.com%7Cf02dd3ba16f04ebb607d08d8b7e6f41e%7C587b6ea13db94fe1a9d785d4c64ce5cc%7C0%7C0%7C637461549862419122%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=af4SpUP5BEmorjeaKGMZES7OvSGuSwVLR88n4Dm%2FsaY%3Dreserved=0

On 1/13/2021 12:58 AM, Windt, W.K.F. van der (Fred) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The IBM website used to have complete descriptions of every CCSID including a 
> complete overview of every character (glyph) in that CCSID with it's 
> encoding. Simply googling "IBM CCSID 1140" would quickly get you to the page 
> of CCSID 1140. The CCSID was in the url so you could quickly switch to 
> another CCSID by changing the url. But with the change to Knowledge Center I 
> can't find those pages anymore... Does anybody know where the CCCSID 
> descriptions have gone?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Fred!
>
> -
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Re: CCSID descriptions

[Tom Brennan]

After the last time things were changed, I've been going here:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSEQ5Y_5.9.0/com.ibm.pcomm.doc/reference/html/hcp_reference02.htm

On 1/13/2021 12:58 AM, Windt, W.K.F. van der (Fred) wrote:

Hi,

The IBM website used to have complete descriptions of every CCSID including a complete 
overview of every character (glyph) in that CCSID with it's encoding. Simply googling 
"IBM CCSID 1140" would quickly get you to the page of CCSID 1140. The CCSID was 
in the url so you could quickly switch to another CCSID by changing the url. But with the 
change to Knowledge Center I can't find those pages anymore... Does anybody know where 
the CCCSID descriptions have gone?

Thanks,

Fred!

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Re: CCSID descriptions

[Norbert Friemel]

On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 08:58:49 +, Windt, W.K.F. van der (Fred) wrote:

>Hi,
>
>The IBM website used to have complete descriptions of every CCSID including a 
>complete overview of every character (glyph) in that CCSID with it's encoding. 
>Simply googling "IBM CCSID 1140" would quickly get you to the page of CCSID 
>1140. The CCSID was in the url so you could quickly switch to another CCSID by 
>changing the url. But with the change to Knowledge Center I can't find those 
>pages anymore... Does anybody know where the CCCSID descriptions have gone?
>

Not a website but ... 
ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/software/globalization/gcoc/attachments/

Norbert Friemel

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Re: CCSID

[Rick Troth]

Oh goody. A character sets question.


On 06/12/16 18:20, Scott Ford wrote:

I found the problem we are using an IBM TBL EZACICTR which doesnt support
CP 437, duh 


Bummer.

Today the role of Lynn Wheeler will be played by /moi/ as I give some 
interesting (to me) history related to this topic. (Salted with 
entertaining embellishment because my facts just aren't as detailed or 
interesting as his.)




I have a bigger question, if we wanted to support Unicode (yeah ugh), how
do I know what CCSIDS to support ?


The problem with Unicode is that it's not an 8-bit codepage. It's 32 
bits. It is the solution to all of our planet-wide problems because 
"there's room for everyone!".


I like UTF-8 where you get an 8-bit wide byte stream. (And there are no 
worries over endianness.) But that doesn't suite everyone. 8-bit bytes 
don't even work for program source code anymore! Eight bit bummer.




For example we go from EBCDIC on z/OS to ASCII and from ASCII to EBCDIC.
Do I some how have to tell the target what the sending CCSID is ?


Yes. (But I more often see the codepage numbers than some CCSID.)

Without better knowledge of your data and the environment, I can only 
recommend circling near "EBCDIC is CP1047" and "ASCII is ISO-8859-1". If 
your stuff is US and most of Western Europe, that works. (Not so helpful 
for the Russians or the Greeks or anyone East of them.)


The Story

We've enjoyed this hemmorrhiod for decades.

Dirty little secret: IBM was one of the backers of ASCII in the 1960s. 
The S/360 had an ASCII/EBCDIC switch. But too much momentum with 
Hollerith history. OS/360 and its siblings continued using EBCDIC. So 
the nifty A/E HW bit got re-purposed. Besides, we can fix everything in 
software, right? Ahh, those were the days. If only 16M were enough. 
Twenty-four bit addressing mode bummer.


In the late 1980s, Edwin Hart, then at Johns Hopkins Applied Physics and 
active with SHARE, spear-headed a customer effort to _distill common 
practice_ into consistency. The result was


*SHARE Report SSD No. 366*:
ASCII and EBCDIC Character Set and Code Issues in Systems Application 
Architecture,

The ASCII/EBCDIC Character Set Task Force.
Edited by Edwin Hart,
The Johns Hopkins University,
Applied Physics Laboratory,
Laurel, Maryland, USA;
published by Share Inc.,
111 East Wacker Drive, Chicago, Illinois, USA 60601;
*June 1989*

The effect was what some called "Codepage 37 version 2". Most mainframe 
sites were using either CP 37 or CP 500 (or subsets), neither of which 
mapped correctly to de-facto EBCDIC (for common translations to/from 
ASCII). CP 37 was the closer of the two. With minor code point 
re-assignment, a codepage floated to the surface which many of us 
rabidly skimmed off and ran with.


IBM took the SHARE report to heart. Mostly. They soon blessed us with CP 
1047, the standard on USS, even now. Codepage 1047 is closer to the 
legendary and mythical CP 37v2, but still off by two points. It switches 
/not/ and /hat/ (circumflex, shift 6 on your US PC keyboard). Makes a 
/mess/ of code and scripts which use either of those characters. 
Thirty-two bit bummer.


Interestingly, this unofficial _CP 37v2 persists_. At least one ISV of 
note (I won't say which, but Dave Rivers might chime in) continues using 
an official pair of translate tables that /work consistently/ between 
z/OS and Unix/Linux/Windows. And there was much rejoicing.


I can offer these ...

   http://www.casita.net/pub/aecs.h
   http://www.casita.net/pub/aecs.c


No warranties expressed or implied. In fact, I recommend /not/ using the 
C routines for anything more than reference. (Code-up something in 
assembler and let the hardware do the grunt work.)


Tagging text with one codepage or another is madness.
But assuming EBCDIC is always one thing and ASCII always an invariant 
other is paint cornering you.
Eventually we will get to Unicode, and the chief cause of problems is 
solutions.

Sixty-four bit bummer.

-- R; <><




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Re: CCSID

[Charles Mills]

Okay ...

01200 UTF-16 UTF-16 as defined in the Unicode Standard. Data is big endian 
order. PF
01202 UTF-16 LE UTF-16 as defined in the Unicode Standard. Data is little 
endian order. T7
01208 UTF-8 UTF-8 as defined in the Unicode Standard. PK
01210 UTF-EBCDIC UTF-EBCDIC as defined in the Unicode Standard. UH
01232 UTF-32 UTF-32 as defined in the Unicode Standard. Data is big endian 
order. J1
21680 UCS-2, DBCS UTF-16 (Unicode version 4.0) TH
61953 UCS-2, DBCS UNICODE 1.0 RG
61956 UTF-16, DBCS With mapping of PUA characters as prescribed by Microsoft T0

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 10:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: CCSID

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 17:08:34 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>z/OS Unicode Services, on which I think all of these CCSID translation 
>implementations are based, fully supports UTF-8 (assuming that's what you mean 
>by Unicode). I use it all the time. Specify CCSID 1028 as the "ASCII" code 
>page.
> 
A fair assumption except for those bred in the zSeries tradition, to whom 
Unicode is likely to mean UCS-2; big-endian; no futher questions.  I believe 
there's even hardware support for this.  Don't know about little-endian, 
pervasive in the outside world.  Doubtful about UTF-8 which would require far 
more complex microcode.  So while the WorldWide Web has largely migrated to 
UTF-8, zSeries remains at UCS-2.

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Re: CCSID

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 13:32:27 -0400, Scott Ford  wrote:

>All,
>
>I need some assistance in troubleshooting a codepage issue .
>I have a server sending ascii data using codepage 850 to another server
>running codepage 437. Then the message is sent to z/OS ..The character in
>question is a '~' which is x'7E'..I looked at both character maps and since
>x'7E' is a ascii 126 will this character not be translated from server to
>server ? If so we use codepage 037 to convert ascii to ebcdic ...We are
>actually seeing the tilde on z/OS..
>
And these are the code pages mentioned by the OP.  (Largely a test to
see how well LISTSERV deals with UTF-8.)

@MVS3:506$ cat `ls -Art | tail -3` | iconv -f ISO8859-1 -t IBM-1047 
   
Host: IBM-1047  output: from_IBM-850
  0  16  32  48  64  80  96 112 128 144 160 176 192 208 224 240
  0  10  20  30  40  50  60  70  80  90  a0  b0  c0  d0  e0  f0

   0  0   0   @   P   `   p   á   ░   └   ð   Ó   ­
   1  1   !   1   A   Q   a   q   í   ▒   ┴   Ð   ß   ±
   2  2   "   2   B   R   b   r   ó   ▓   ┬   Ê   Ô   ‗
   3  3   #   3   C   S   c   s   ú   │   ├   Ë   Ò   ¾
   4  4   $   4   D   T   d   t   ñ   ┤   ─   È   õ   ¶
   5  5   %   5   E   U   e   u   Ñ   Á   ┼   ı   Õ   §
   6  6   &   6   F   V   f   v   ª   Â   ã   Í   µ   ÷
   7  7   '   7   G   W   g   w   º   À   Ã   Î   þ   ¸
   8  8   (   8   H   X   h   x   ¿   ©   ╚   Ï   Þ   °
   9  9   )   9   I   Y   i   y   ®   ╣   ╔   ┘   Ú   ¨
  10  a   *   :   J   Z   j   z   ¬   ║   ╩   ┌   Û   ·
  11  b   +   ;   K   [   k   {   ½   ╗   ╦   █   Ù   ¹
  12  c   ,   <   L   \   l   |   ¼   ╝   ╠   ▄   ý   ³
  13  d   -   =   M   ]   m   }   ¡   ¢   ═   ¦   Ý   ²
  14  e   .   >   N   ^   n   ~   «   ¥   ╬   Ì   ¯   ■
  15  f   /   ?   O   _   o   »   ┐   ¤   ▀   ´    

Host: IBM-1047  output: from_IBM-437
  0  16  32  48  64  80  96 112 128 144 160 176 192 208 224 240
  0  10  20  30  40  50  60  70  80  90  a0  b0  c0  d0  e0  f0

   0  0   0   @   P   `   p   á   ░   └   ╨   α   ≡
   1  1   !   1   A   Q   a   q   í   ▒   ┴   ╤   ß   ±
   2  2   "   2   B   R   b   r   ó   ▓   ┬   ╥   Γ   ≥
   3  3   #   3   C   S   c   s   ú   │   ├   ╙   π   ≤
   4  4   $   4   D   T   d   t   ñ   ┤   ─   ╘   Σ   ⌠
   5  5   %   5   E   U   e   u   Ñ   ╡   ┼   ╒   σ   ⌡
   6  6   &   6   F   V   f   v   ª   ╢   ╞   ╓   μ   ÷
   7  7   '   7   G   W   g   w   º   ╖   ╟   ╫   τ   ≈
   8  8   (   8   H   X   h   x   ¿   ╕   ╚   ╪   Φ   °
   9  9   )   9   I   Y   i   y   ⌐   ╣   ╔   ┘   Θ   ∙
  10  a   *   :   J   Z   j   z   ¬   ║   ╩   ┌   Ω   ·
  11  b   +   ;   K   [   k   {   ½   ╗   ╦   █   δ   √
  12  c   ,   <   L   \   l   |   ¼   ╝   ╠   ▄   ∞   ⁿ
  13  d   -   =   M   ]   m   }   ¡   ╜   ═   ▌   φ   ²
  14  e   .   >   N   ^   n   ~   «   ╛   ╬   ▐   ε   ■
  15  f   /   ?   O   _   o   »   ┐   ╧   ▀   ∩    

Host: IBM-1047  output: from_IBM-037
  0  16  32  48  64  80  96 112 128 144 160 176 192 208 224 240
  0  10  20  30  40  50  60  70  80  90  a0  b0  c0  d0  e0  f0

   0  0   &   -   ø   Ø   °   µ   ^   {   }   \   0
   1  1       é   /   É   a   j   ~   £   A   J   ÷   1
   2  2   â   ê   Â   Ê   b   k   s   ¥   B   K   S   2
   3  3   ä   ë   Ä   Ë   c   l   t   ·   C   L   T   3
   4  4   à   è   À   È   d   m   u   ©   D   M   U   4
   5  5   á   í   Á   Í   e   n   v   §   E   N   V   5
   6  6   ã   î   Ã   Î   f   o   w   ¶   F   O   W   6
   7  7   å   ï   Å   Ï   g   p   x   ¼   G   P   X   7
   8  8   ç   ì   Ç   Ì   h   q   y   ½   H   Q   Y   8
   9  9   ñ   ß   Ñ   `   i   r   z   ¾   I   R   Z   9
  10  a   ¢   !   ¦   :   «   ª   ¡   [   ­   ¹   ²   ³
  11  b   .   $   ,   #   »   º   ¿   ]   ô   û   Ô   Û
  12  c   <   *   %   @   ð   æ   Ð   ¯   ö   ü   Ö   Ü
  13  d   (   )   _   '   ý   ¸   Ý   ¨   ò   ù   Ò   Ù
  14  e   +   ;   >   =   þ   Æ   Þ   ´   ó   ú   Ó   Ú
  15  f   |   ¬   ?   "   ±   ¤   ®   ×   õ   ÿ   Õ

-- gil

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Re: CCSID

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 17:08:34 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>z/OS Unicode Services, on which I think all of these CCSID translation 
>implementations are based, fully supports UTF-8 (assuming that's what you mean 
>by Unicode). I use it all the time. Specify CCSID 1028 as the "ASCII" code 
>page.
> 
A fair assumption except for those bred in the zSeries tradition, to whom
Unicode is likely to mean UCS-2; big-endian; no futher questions.  I believe
there's even hardware support for this.  Don't know about little-endian,
pervasive in the outside world.  Doubtful about UTF-8 which would require
far more complex microcode.  So while the WorldWide Web has largely
migrated to UTF-8, zSeries remains at UCS-2.

-- gil

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Re: CCSID

[Charles Mills]

01208 UTF-8 UTF-8 as defined in the Unicode Standard. PK

You are correct.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 5:21 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: CCSID

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:11:21 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
>
>Yes sir, I will check this out.
>
>On Sunday, June 12, 2016, Charles Mills <charl...@mcn.org> wrote:
>
>> z/OS Unicode Services, on which I think all of these CCSID 
>> translation implementations are based, fully supports UTF-8 (assuming 
>> that's what you mean by Unicode). I use it all the time. Specify CCSID 1028 
>> as the "ASCII"
>> code page.
>> 
ITYM 1208?  1209??

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Re: CCSID

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:11:21 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
>
>Yes sir, I will check this out.
>
>On Sunday, June 12, 2016, Charles Mills  wrote:
>
>> z/OS Unicode Services, on which I think all of these CCSID translation
>> implementations are based, fully supports UTF-8 (assuming that's what you
>> mean by Unicode). I use it all the time. Specify CCSID 1028 as the "ASCII"
>> code page.
>> 
ITYM 1208?  1209??

-- gil

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Re: CCSID

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 19:54:45 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
>
>That would interesting if a 'DD SYSOUT' could do it, hmmm, I think the
>issue I saw was related to an older PC code page, my guts keep telling
>this. Guys, I appreciate what you said I want to dig a tad I know there are
>Unicode APIs ...
>
Alas,  IEFC009I; SYSOUT and CCSID are mutex.  CCSID=1208 is tolerated
for DASD, but IIRC I was told it's effective only on tape.  IBM's minimalist
practice: probably an RFE mentioned tape, and IBM didn't see fit to make
the facility generally available.  Would have been the same code in a different
layer (unless it's done in the control unit).

-- gil

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Re: CCSID

[Scott Ford]

Charles,

Yes sir, I will check this out.

Scott

On Sunday, June 12, 2016, Charles Mills <charl...@mcn.org> wrote:

> z/OS Unicode Services, on which I think all of these CCSID translation
> implementations are based, fully supports UTF-8 (assuming that's what you
> mean by Unicode). I use it all the time. Specify CCSID 1028 as the "ASCII"
> code page.
>
> Charles
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Scott Ford
> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:55 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <javascript:;>
> Subject: Re: CCSID
>
> Gil,
>
> That would interesting if a 'DD SYSOUT' could do it, hmmm, I think the
> issue I saw was related to an older PC code page, my guts keep telling
> this. Guys, I appreciate what you said I want to dig a tad I know there are
> Unicode APIs ...
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott
>
> On Sunday, June 12, 2016, Paul Gilmartin <
> 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 18:20:15 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
> > >
> > >I have a bigger question, if we wanted to support Unicode (yeah ugh),
> > >how do I know what CCSIDS to support ?
> > >For example we go from EBCDIC on z/OS to ASCII and from ASCII to EBCDIC.
> > Do
> > >I some how have to tell the target what the sending CCSID is ?
> > >
>
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Re: CCSID

[Charles Mills]

z/OS Unicode Services, on which I think all of these CCSID translation 
implementations are based, fully supports UTF-8 (assuming that's what you mean 
by Unicode). I use it all the time. Specify CCSID 1028 as the "ASCII" code page.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Scott Ford
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: CCSID

Gil,

That would interesting if a 'DD SYSOUT' could do it, hmmm, I think the issue I 
saw was related to an older PC code page, my guts keep telling this. Guys, I 
appreciate what you said I want to dig a tad I know there are Unicode APIs ...

Regards,

Scott

On Sunday, June 12, 2016, Paul Gilmartin < 
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 18:20:15 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
> >
> >I have a bigger question, if we wanted to support Unicode (yeah ugh), 
> >how do I know what CCSIDS to support ?
> >For example we go from EBCDIC on z/OS to ASCII and from ASCII to EBCDIC.
> Do
> >I some how have to tell the target what the sending CCSID is ?
> >

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Re: CCSID

[Scott Ford]

Gil,

That would interesting if a 'DD SYSOUT' could do it, hmmm, I think the
issue I saw was related to an older PC code page, my guts keep telling
this. Guys, I appreciate what you said I want to dig a tad I know there are
Unicode APIs ...

Regards,

Scott

On Sunday, June 12, 2016, Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 18:20:15 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
> >
> >I have a bigger question, if we wanted to support Unicode (yeah ugh), how
> >do I know what CCSIDS to support ?
> >For example we go from EBCDIC on z/OS to ASCII and from ASCII to EBCDIC.
> Do
> >I some how have to tell the target what the sending CCSID is ?
> >
> Probably.  IBM's FTP gives pretty much the maximal support with the
> [QUOTE] [LOC]SITE {SB|MB}DATACONN option.
>
> Possible silly restrictions (I'm not sure):
>
> o I don't know which CCSIDs are available.  An Admin Guide may contain
>   instructions for supplying more.
>
> o I don't know that UTF-8 (CP-1208) is supported.
>
> o IIRC, conversion between two ASCII or two EBCDIC pages is not supported;
>   must be one of each.
>
> o IIRC, conversion is supported only for TYPE EBCDIC, not TYPE BINARY
>   transfers.
>
> o Between two z/OS systems, I don't know what happens if one specifies
>   conversion at both client and server.  It might be possible to convert
> from
>   one EBCDIC CP to ASCII at the server, then from ASCII to a different
>   EBCDIC CP at the client.
>
> Topic drift (but well within the scope of the Subject):  Is it possible
> from
> the SDSF API to determine the value coded on the JCL DD SYSOUT,CCSID=
> statement?  This might sometimes be useful.
>
> -- gil
>
> --
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Re: CCSID

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 18:20:15 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
>
>I have a bigger question, if we wanted to support Unicode (yeah ugh), how
>do I know what CCSIDS to support ?
>For example we go from EBCDIC on z/OS to ASCII and from ASCII to EBCDIC. Do
>I some how have to tell the target what the sending CCSID is ?
>
Probably.  IBM's FTP gives pretty much the maximal support with the
[QUOTE] [LOC]SITE {SB|MB}DATACONN option.

Possible silly restrictions (I'm not sure):

o I don't know which CCSIDs are available.  An Admin Guide may contain
  instructions for supplying more.

o I don't know that UTF-8 (CP-1208) is supported.

o IIRC, conversion between two ASCII or two EBCDIC pages is not supported;
  must be one of each.

o IIRC, conversion is supported only for TYPE EBCDIC, not TYPE BINARY
  transfers.

o Between two z/OS systems, I don't know what happens if one specifies
  conversion at both client and server.  It might be possible to convert from
  one EBCDIC CP to ASCII at the server, then from ASCII to a different
  EBCDIC CP at the client.

Topic drift (but well within the scope of the Subject):  Is it possible from
the SDSF API to determine the value coded on the JCL DD SYSOUT,CCSID=
statement?  This might sometimes be useful.

-- gil

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Re: CCSID

[Rob Schramm]

XML-ize it? Code page is in the header.  I didn't look into the "how" ..
but ANT was able to process cp-1047.

Rob Schramm

On Sun, Jun 12, 2016, 6:21 PM Scott Ford  wrote:

> Rob and Gil,
>
> I found the problem we are using an IBM TBL EZACICTR which doesnt support
> CP 437, duh 
>
> I have a bigger question, if we wanted to support Unicode (yeah ugh), how
> do I know what CCSIDS to support ?
> For example we go from EBCDIC on z/OS to ASCII and from ASCII to EBCDIC. Do
> I some how have to tell the target what the sending CCSID is ?
>
> BTW, a big ty ..too
> Scott
>
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 3:58 PM, Rob Schramm 
> wrote:
>
> > Can you fill in the servers?  Like AIX, AS400 etc etc
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 12, 2016, 3:45 PM Paul Gilmartin <
> > 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 13:32:27 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
> > > >
> > > >I need some assistance in troubleshooting a codepage issue .
> > > >I have a server sending ascii data using codepage 850 to another
> server
> > > >running codepage 437. Then the message is sent to z/OS ..The character
> > in
> > > >question is a '~' which is x'7E'..I looked at both character maps and
> > > since
> > > >x'7E' is a ascii 126 will this character not be translated from server
> > to
> > > >server ? If so we use codepage 037 to convert ascii to ebcdic ...We
> are
> > > >actually seeing the tilde on z/OS..
> > > >
> > > Aaaarrrgggh!
> > >
> > > (But is the tilde (what code point in what CCSID?) not what you want?)
> > >
> > > Can you do *all* the transfers in binary until you get to z/OS, then
> use
> > > iconv
> > > for the final conversion?
> > >
> > > Principle of minal munging: that would get you a pristine copy on z/OS
> > that
> > > you can inspect/dump/experiment with and control the final conversion
> > >
> > > And you'll still have the  nuisance to deal with.
> > >
> > > All I know is what I can read on:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSAL2T_8.1.0/com.ibm.cics.tx.doc/reference/r_code_pg_sprt.html
> > >
> > > -- gil
> > >
> > > --
> > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> > >
> > --
> >
> > Rob Schramm
> > The Art of Mainframe, Inc
> >
> > --
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> >
>
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The Art of Mainframe, Inc

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Re: CCSID

[Scott Ford]

Rob and Gil,

I found the problem we are using an IBM TBL EZACICTR which doesnt support
CP 437, duh 

I have a bigger question, if we wanted to support Unicode (yeah ugh), how
do I know what CCSIDS to support ?
For example we go from EBCDIC on z/OS to ASCII and from ASCII to EBCDIC. Do
I some how have to tell the target what the sending CCSID is ?

BTW, a big ty ..too
Scott

On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 3:58 PM, Rob Schramm  wrote:

> Can you fill in the servers?  Like AIX, AS400 etc etc
>
> Rob
>
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2016, 3:45 PM Paul Gilmartin <
> 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 13:32:27 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
> > >
> > >I need some assistance in troubleshooting a codepage issue .
> > >I have a server sending ascii data using codepage 850 to another server
> > >running codepage 437. Then the message is sent to z/OS ..The character
> in
> > >question is a '~' which is x'7E'..I looked at both character maps and
> > since
> > >x'7E' is a ascii 126 will this character not be translated from server
> to
> > >server ? If so we use codepage 037 to convert ascii to ebcdic ...We are
> > >actually seeing the tilde on z/OS..
> > >
> > Aaaarrrgggh!
> >
> > (But is the tilde (what code point in what CCSID?) not what you want?)
> >
> > Can you do *all* the transfers in binary until you get to z/OS, then use
> > iconv
> > for the final conversion?
> >
> > Principle of minal munging: that would get you a pristine copy on z/OS
> that
> > you can inspect/dump/experiment with and control the final conversion
> >
> > And you'll still have the  nuisance to deal with.
> >
> > All I know is what I can read on:
> >
> >
> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSAL2T_8.1.0/com.ibm.cics.tx.doc/reference/r_code_pg_sprt.html
> >
> > -- gil
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
> --
>
> Rob Schramm
> The Art of Mainframe, Inc
>
> --
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>

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Re: CCSID

[Rob Schramm]

Can you fill in the servers?  Like AIX, AS400 etc etc

Rob

On Sun, Jun 12, 2016, 3:45 PM Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 13:32:27 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
> >
> >I need some assistance in troubleshooting a codepage issue .
> >I have a server sending ascii data using codepage 850 to another server
> >running codepage 437. Then the message is sent to z/OS ..The character in
> >question is a '~' which is x'7E'..I looked at both character maps and
> since
> >x'7E' is a ascii 126 will this character not be translated from server to
> >server ? If so we use codepage 037 to convert ascii to ebcdic ...We are
> >actually seeing the tilde on z/OS..
> >
> Aaaarrrgggh!
>
> (But is the tilde (what code point in what CCSID?) not what you want?)
>
> Can you do *all* the transfers in binary until you get to z/OS, then use
> iconv
> for the final conversion?
>
> Principle of minal munging: that would get you a pristine copy on z/OS that
> you can inspect/dump/experiment with and control the final conversion
>
> And you'll still have the  nuisance to deal with.
>
> All I know is what I can read on:
>
> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSAL2T_8.1.0/com.ibm.cics.tx.doc/reference/r_code_pg_sprt.html
>
> -- gil
>
> --
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The Art of Mainframe, Inc

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Re: CCSID

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 13:32:27 -0400, Scott Ford wrote:
>
>I need some assistance in troubleshooting a codepage issue .
>I have a server sending ascii data using codepage 850 to another server
>running codepage 437. Then the message is sent to z/OS ..The character in
>question is a '~' which is x'7E'..I looked at both character maps and since
>x'7E' is a ascii 126 will this character not be translated from server to
>server ? If so we use codepage 037 to convert ascii to ebcdic ...We are
>actually seeing the tilde on z/OS..
>
Aaaarrrgggh!

(But is the tilde (what code point in what CCSID?) not what you want?)

Can you do *all* the transfers in binary until you get to z/OS, then use iconv
for the final conversion?

Principle of minal munging: that would get you a pristine copy on z/OS that
you can inspect/dump/experiment with and control the final conversion

And you'll still have the  nuisance to deal with.

All I know is what I can read on:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSAL2T_8.1.0/com.ibm.cics.tx.doc/reference/r_code_pg_sprt.html

-- gil

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