Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[Timothy Sipples]

John,

The IBM z/OS Platform for Apache Spark should be available through your
Shopz account at no additional charge. Look for 5655-AAB. Only IBM support
(5655-AAC) is chargeable, and it's optional.

IBM intends to replace the 5655-AAB program number with 5655-OD1 (IBM Open
Data Analytics for z/OS), but for now I believe 5655-AAB is still
available.


Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[John McKown]

Jantje & Timothy,

Those look very interesting. But I forgot a critical part in my
initial post. The solution must be FREE of any cost or obligation. The
z/OS system is being "revitalized", but that doesn't mean that we're
going to actually spend any more money on it. Most especially if we
already have a "solution" (what we're doing now) and the "new
solution" is not a user request, but just a programmer who has too
much to do already and wants to eliminate an "irritation". I guess
what we want is an ETL (Extract, Transform, Load) process between z/OS
VSAM and Excel which is free & we can con...vince the user into using
instead of making a "friendly request" (not a formal one) of the
programmer on an "ad hoc" basis.

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Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[Jantje.]

On Tue, 22 Aug 2017 07:38:59 -0500, John McKown  
wrote:

>is familiar with MS VBA. So what he wants to do is to have a VBA
>program which can use the Windows MQSeries dll to communicate with a
>CICS transaction. This transaction would read or write the data on

Maybe have your programmer consider http://www.mqgem.com/qload.html
I'am sure a VBA wizard can easily drive this program to get and put the 
messages on the Excel end.

Cheers,

Jantje.

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Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[Timothy Sipples]

John,

Here are some more suggestions, in no particular order:

1. IBM InfoSphere Classic Federation Server for z/OS provides JDBC, ODBC,
and DRDA access to VSAM data (and other types of data):

https://www.ibm.com/us-en/marketplace/infosphere-classic-federation-server

Microsoft Excel understands how to connect via ODBC.

2. You can install the IBM z/OS Platform for Apache Spark, then connect
Microsoft Excel to Spark (using various methods):

https://www.ibm.com/us-en/marketplace/real-time-analysis-on-z-systems

Spark provides a lot of features that data scientists and actuaries are
bound to like and even prefer, beyond Microsoft Excel. Apache Spark runs
almost entirely on zIIP engines, if you have one or more of them. I think
it's orderable from IBM Shopz at no additional charge. (Optional IBM
support is chargeable, and there are bigger/larger function sets that are
chargeable.)

3. Query Management Facility (QMF):

https://www.ibm.com/us-en/marketplace/db2-qmf

Despite its name ("DB2 QMF"), QMF also supports VSAM and other data
sources.


Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[ITschak Mugzach]

Try this:
Pcomm (and most other emulators) has an api. You  an call the send recieve
data function from a vb pgm.
Now on the mainframe, replace ind$file with a rexx exec that will unload
the vsam file ( or load) and call original ind$file pgm to transfer the
unloaded data.
If you're using ftp, you can submit a job using ftp that will do all the
job for you.

ITschak

בתאריך 23 באוג 2017 02:35,‏ "Edward Gould"  כתב:

> On Aug 22, 2017, at 10:08 AM, Lizette Koehler 
wrote:
>
> I know about vendor costs. But have you looked at this?
>
> http://www.connx.com/learning/access_vsam_in_excel.php
>
> Or other internet searches might bring up other options.
>
> Accessing VSAM from EXCEL seems to be a valid function
>
> Or if you have something like CICS/IMS could you create a Web access to
do this?
>
>
>
>
> Lizette


Wow, I could have used this 20+ years ago.

Ed
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Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[Edward Gould]

> On Aug 22, 2017, at 10:08 AM, Lizette Koehler  wrote:
> 
> I know about vendor costs. But have you looked at this?
> 
> http://www.connx.com/learning/access_vsam_in_excel.php
> 
> Or other internet searches might bring up other options.
> 
> Accessing VSAM from EXCEL seems to be a valid function
> 
> Or if you have something like CICS/IMS could you create a Web access to do 
> this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lizette


Wow, I could have used this 20+ years ago.

Ed
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Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[Sri h Kolusu]

John,

Just so you know DFSORT is quite capable of generating comma separated 
files and also update the VSAM clusters provided that they are defined 
with REUSE. 

Let me know if you are interested in creating a sample job.

Thanks,
Kolusu
DFSORT Development
IBM Corporation

IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> wrote on 
08/22/2017 05:38:59 AM:

> From: John McKown <john.archie.mck...@gmail.com>
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date: 08/22/2017 05:39 AM
> Subject: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to 
> get data from z/OS.
> Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
> 
> I have a programmer here who is talking about the subject. What is
> happening now is that the Actuarial department is "pestering" him with
> requests to extract data from a VSAM cluster (we don't have DB2 on
> z/OS), format it into a CSV, so that they can download it and import
> it into Excel. They then massage it in Excel, save it as a CSV, upload
> it to z/OS, and finally ask the programmer to load the changed data
> back into the VSAM cluster. I can imagine the shuddering going on, but
> this is _their_ data and not production data.
> 
> Perhaps needless to say, the programmer is getting tired of this.
> Also, he is very busy with our revitalization of the z/OS system. He
> is familiar with MS VBA. So what he wants to do is to have a VBA
> program which can use the Windows MQSeries dll to communicate with a
> CICS transaction. This transaction would read or write the data on
> z/OS from the data in the Excel spreadsheet. Personally, I don't _do_
> Windows, so I don't know how difficult this would be. But if anyone
> out there knows of any examples which might help him code up VBA in
> Excel with MQSeries, I would appreciate a pointer.
> 
> Actually, what I tried to push was giving the actuaries a way to
> generate an Easytrieve or COBOL program to do what they want, then
> submit a job via ftp to do the actual reading or writing of the VSAM
> data. We can do this in batch because we have SYSB, which allows a
> batch job to update a VSAM cluster via CICS.
> 
> -- 
> If you look around the poker table & don't see an obvious sucker, it's 
you.
> 
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown
> 
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Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[John McKown]

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 10:53 AM, Doug  wrote:
> Just a thought, batch job with file manager  can create csv format, then ftp 
> to 'them'.
> The reverse should also be possible.
> Never tried, just a thought IF you have file manager.
> Regards, Doug

We have FileAid (old version). And, of course, DFSORT could probably
do this. The problem is, basically a "UX" (User eXperience) one. The
programmer basically wants the user to stay in Excel, be able to
request the data, and _immediately_ start getting data back into the
spreadsheet. And the same for updating the VSAM cluster. The
programmer is a CICS & COBOL programmer which is possibly why he is
looking at a CICS solution. And, really, we don't have anything else
that he could use. I would likely use the z/OS web server with a CGI,
but he doesn't know how to do HTML et al.  "If all you have is a
hammer, everything looks like a nail."


-- 
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Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[Doug]

Just a thought, batch job with file manager  can create csv format, then ftp to 
'them'. 
The reverse should also be possible.
Never tried, just a thought IF you have file manager.
Regards, Doug 


.

On Aug 22, 2017, at 08:38, John McKown  wrote:

would
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Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[John McKown]

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Lizette Koehler
 wrote:
> I know about vendor costs. But have you looked at this?
>
> http://www.connx.com/learning/access_vsam_in_excel.php

Interesting, thanks!

>
> Or other internet searches might bring up other options.
>
> Accessing VSAM from EXCEL seems to be a valid function
>
> Or if you have something like CICS/IMS could you create a Web access to do 
> this?

We don't have IMS, just plain ol' (free) VSAM. Personally, I was
thinking that using a CICS HTTP interface would be simpler than CICS
MQ, but I am just a "resource" on this. I'm not part of the "design
team" (the one programmer) and I guess he finds MQ easier than HTTP.

>
>
> Lizette
>
>

-- 
If you look around the poker table & don't see an obvious sucker, it's you.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[Lizette Koehler]

I know about vendor costs. But have you looked at this?

http://www.connx.com/learning/access_vsam_in_excel.php

Or other internet searches might bring up other options.

Accessing VSAM from EXCEL seems to be a valid function

Or if you have something like CICS/IMS could you create a Web access to do this?




Lizette


> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of John McKown
> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 5:39 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data
> from z/OS.
> 
> I have a programmer here who is talking about the subject. What is happening
> now is that the Actuarial department is "pestering" him with requests to
> extract data from a VSAM cluster (we don't have DB2 on z/OS), format it into
> a CSV, so that they can download it and import it into Excel. They then
> massage it in Excel, save it as a CSV, upload it to z/OS, and finally ask the
> programmer to load the changed data back into the VSAM cluster. I can imagine
> the shuddering going on, but this is _their_ data and not production data.
> 
> Perhaps needless to say, the programmer is getting tired of this.
> Also, he is very busy with our revitalization of the z/OS system. He is
> familiar with MS VBA. So what he wants to do is to have a VBA program which
> can use the Windows MQSeries dll to communicate with a CICS transaction. This
> transaction would read or write the data on z/OS from the data in the Excel
> spreadsheet. Personally, I don't _do_ Windows, so I don't know how difficult
> this would be. But if anyone out there knows of any examples which might help
> him code up VBA in Excel with MQSeries, I would appreciate a pointer.
> 
> Actually, what I tried to push was giving the actuaries a way to generate an
> Easytrieve or COBOL program to do what they want, then submit a job via ftp
> to do the actual reading or writing of the VSAM data. We can do this in batch
> because we have SYSB, which allows a batch job to update a VSAM cluster via
> CICS.
> 
> --
> If you look around the poker table & don't see an obvious sucker, it's you.
> 
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown
> 

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Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[John McKown]

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht
 wrote:
> John McKown wrote:
>
>>> Can this "massage it in Excel" be determined to program it to just update 
>>> it on z/OS ??
>
>>I doubt it. The actuaries tend to do a lot of what I consider "ad hoc messing 
>>around" to look at things. Also, they tend to want to "do it themselves" 
>>since none of our programmers are statisticians or actuaries.
>
>>They can't really tell you before hand exactly what they are going to do 
>>because the goal changes minute by minute as they explore.
>
> They're (actuaries) stupid/ignorant/time-waster/etc., but Ok, let me keep my 
> opinion by my self... ;-)

Hum, I like our actuaries. They were the main reason that the z/OS
death here was delayed long enough for it to become apparent that
"cloud sourcing" was the wrong approach for us. I.e. it let enough
customer complaints get registered (some with state gov Dept of
Insurance) to become "scary" to the COO.

>
>
>>> Seems like that would eliminate a bunch of CPU cycles transferring back and 
>>> forth and storage to just formally figure out what the "massaging" is.
>
> Just ask them what will they do for numeric fields and date/time fields 
> during transfers and sorting? That alone is a minefield - guaranteed to keep 
> them busy well beyond your retirement.
>

Good question, but I don't think that is causing any problems at
present. Personally, for transferring from one platform to another, I
like RCF3339 dates (-mm-ddThh:mm:ss.)

> Like that programmer of you, I will be tired within a nanosecond...
>
> Sorry for not being able to help you, since I think AFAIK you don't have DB2? 
> DB2 could be really useful for massaging those VSAM dsn, but you need DB2 on 
> z/OS and also on a workstation plus a really competent programmer or two...
>
> Groete / Greetings
> Elardus Engelbrecht

-- 
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Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

John McKown wrote:

>> Can this "massage it in Excel" be determined to program it to just update it 
>> on z/OS ??

>I doubt it. The actuaries tend to do a lot of what I consider "ad hoc messing 
>around" to look at things. Also, they tend to want to "do it themselves" since 
>none of our programmers are statisticians or actuaries. 

>They can't really tell you before hand exactly what they are going to do 
>because the goal changes minute by minute as they explore.

They're (actuaries) stupid/ignorant/time-waster/etc., but Ok, let me keep my 
opinion by my self... ;-)


>> Seems like that would eliminate a bunch of CPU cycles transferring back and 
>> forth and storage to just formally figure out what the "massaging" is.

Just ask them what will they do for numeric fields and date/time fields during 
transfers and sorting? That alone is a minefield - guaranteed to keep them busy 
well beyond your retirement.

Like that programmer of you, I will be tired within a nanosecond...

Sorry for not being able to help you, since I think AFAIK you don't have DB2? 
DB2 could be really useful for massaging those VSAM dsn, but you need DB2 on 
z/OS and also on a workstation plus a really competent programmer or two...

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[John McKown]

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 8:09 AM, Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) - KLM
 wrote:
> I was thinking of the opposite obvious question: is the data also needed on 
> z/OS or can they get it just download it and keep it there?

I don't think they could do that. The data that they are working with
initially comes out of the production data. Also, some of the
actuaries' processes are written in Easytrieve on z/OS, and uses the
"massaged" data. At one time, we did do some "duplexing" of specific
data items for their data warehouse. But during the "let's kill z/OS"
of the near past, a lot of this was "lost". Also, I'm not really in
the loop about what data the actuaries are actually asking for. It may
be a bit "high level" and "random". What we really need is to have
this data in DB2 and allow the actuaries to be able to do DRDA queries
against it. But "that costs money!!!" and so will fly about as well as
a solid lead brick. After all, why spend money when we can just tell
people to work longer hours?

>
> Kees.
>
-- 
If you look around the poker table & don't see an obvious sucker, it's you.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[John McKown]

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Savor, Thomas (Alpharetta)
 wrote:
> I'll state the obvious..
> Can this "massage it in Excel" be determined to program it to just update it 
> on z/OS ??

I doubt it. The actuaries tend to do a lot of what I consider "ad hoc
messing around" to look at things. Also, they tend to want to "do it
themselves" since none of our programmers are statisticians or
actuaries. I don't blame them for this attitude. I often have the
"just let me do it myself, I know what I want". Also, they tend to
look at data one way, and that give them an idea about a different way
to look at the data. They don't want to have to put in a request and
get it approved, then coded, before they can get their new view. It's
kind of like a surgeon doing "exploratory surgery". They can't really
tell you before hand exactly what they are going to do because the
goal changes minute by minute as they explore.

> Seems like that would eliminate a bunch of CPU cycles transferring back and 
> forth and storage to just formally figure out what the "massaging" is.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom Savor
> Software Developer, Sr
> FRMS-SCM
> Fiserv


-- 
If you look around the poker table & don't see an obvious sucker, it's you.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) - KLM]

I was thinking of the opposite obvious question: is the data also needed on 
z/OS or can they get it just download it and keep it there?

Kees.

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Savor, Thomas (Alpharetta)
> Sent: 22 August, 2017 15:07
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to
> get data from z/OS.
> 
> I'll state the obvious..
> Can this "massage it in Excel" be determined to program it to just
> update it on z/OS ??
> Seems like that would eliminate a bunch of CPU cycles transferring back
> and forth and storage to just formally figure out what the "massaging"
> is.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom Savor
> Software Developer, Sr
> FRMS-SCM
> Fiserv
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of John McKown
> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:39 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get
> data from z/OS.
> 
> I have a programmer here who is talking about the subject. What is
> happening now is that the Actuarial department is "pestering" him with
> requests to extract data from a VSAM cluster (we don't have DB2 on
> z/OS), format it into a CSV, so that they can download it and import it
> into Excel. They then massage it in Excel, save it as a CSV, upload it
> to z/OS, and finally ask the programmer to load the changed data back
> into the VSAM cluster. I can imagine the shuddering going on, but this
> is _their_ data and not production data.
> 
> Perhaps needless to say, the programmer is getting tired of this.
> Also, he is very busy with our revitalization of the z/OS system. He is
> familiar with MS VBA. So what he wants to do is to have a VBA program
> which can use the Windows MQSeries dll to communicate with a CICS
> transaction. This transaction would read or write the data on z/OS from
> the data in the Excel spreadsheet. Personally, I don't _do_ Windows, so
> I don't know how difficult this would be. But if anyone out there knows
> of any examples which might help him code up VBA in Excel with MQSeries,
> I would appreciate a pointer.
> 
> Actually, what I tried to push was giving the actuaries a way to
> generate an Easytrieve or COBOL program to do what they want, then
> submit a job via ftp to do the actual reading or writing of the VSAM
> data. We can do this in batch because we have SYSB, which allows a batch
> job to update a VSAM cluster via CICS.
> 
> --
> If you look around the poker table & don't see an obvious sucker, it's
> you.
> 
> Maranatha! <><
> John McKown
> 
> --
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> 
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Re: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[Savor, Thomas (Alpharetta)]

I'll state the obvious..
Can this "massage it in Excel" be determined to program it to just update it on 
z/OS ??
Seems like that would eliminate a bunch of CPU cycles transferring back and 
forth and storage to just formally figure out what the "massaging" is.

Thanks,

Tom Savor
Software Developer, Sr
FRMS-SCM
Fiserv


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:39 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data 
from z/OS.

I have a programmer here who is talking about the subject. What is happening 
now is that the Actuarial department is "pestering" him with requests to 
extract data from a VSAM cluster (we don't have DB2 on z/OS), format it into a 
CSV, so that they can download it and import it into Excel. They then massage 
it in Excel, save it as a CSV, upload it to z/OS, and finally ask the 
programmer to load the changed data back into the VSAM cluster. I can imagine 
the shuddering going on, but this is _their_ data and not production data.

Perhaps needless to say, the programmer is getting tired of this.
Also, he is very busy with our revitalization of the z/OS system. He is 
familiar with MS VBA. So what he wants to do is to have a VBA program which can 
use the Windows MQSeries dll to communicate with a CICS transaction. This 
transaction would read or write the data on z/OS from the data in the Excel 
spreadsheet. Personally, I don't _do_ Windows, so I don't know how difficult 
this would be. But if anyone out there knows of any examples which might help 
him code up VBA in Excel with MQSeries, I would appreciate a pointer.

Actually, what I tried to push was giving the actuaries a way to generate an 
Easytrieve or COBOL program to do what they want, then submit a job via ftp to 
do the actual reading or writing of the VSAM data. We can do this in batch 
because we have SYSB, which allows a batch job to update a VSAM cluster via 
CICS.

--
If you look around the poker table & don't see an obvious sucker, it's you.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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thought on data integration: Using MS Excel & MQSeries to get data from z/OS.

[John McKown]

I have a programmer here who is talking about the subject. What is
happening now is that the Actuarial department is "pestering" him with
requests to extract data from a VSAM cluster (we don't have DB2 on
z/OS), format it into a CSV, so that they can download it and import
it into Excel. They then massage it in Excel, save it as a CSV, upload
it to z/OS, and finally ask the programmer to load the changed data
back into the VSAM cluster. I can imagine the shuddering going on, but
this is _their_ data and not production data.

Perhaps needless to say, the programmer is getting tired of this.
Also, he is very busy with our revitalization of the z/OS system. He
is familiar with MS VBA. So what he wants to do is to have a VBA
program which can use the Windows MQSeries dll to communicate with a
CICS transaction. This transaction would read or write the data on
z/OS from the data in the Excel spreadsheet. Personally, I don't _do_
Windows, so I don't know how difficult this would be. But if anyone
out there knows of any examples which might help him code up VBA in
Excel with MQSeries, I would appreciate a pointer.

Actually, what I tried to push was giving the actuaries a way to
generate an Easytrieve or COBOL program to do what they want, then
submit a job via ftp to do the actual reading or writing of the VSAM
data. We can do this in batch because we have SYSB, which allows a
batch job to update a VSAM cluster via CICS.

-- 
If you look around the poker table & don't see an obvious sucker, it's you.

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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