[efloraofindia:284522] Re: SK901 20 DEC-2017:ID

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Dear Saroj

You certainly like to make it difficult to identify a plant.  You have 
ignored what I advised about taking many more images per specimen of a 
range of parts of the plant, which would greatly help the identification 
process, providing a reference for future users of efI.  You only 
photographed the fruits of this Clematis plus a leaflet (albeit an 
underneath shot as well) but not leaf nor base of leaves where they meet 
stem nor habit, nor habitat..  It is like being asked to say what is the 
picture in a jigsaw puzzle, with most of the important pieces missing.

How can I help, when my advice is not followed?  I have been 
ignored/dismissed.

I have repeated my advice many times. Why should I continue?  I bang my 
head against a brick-wall..

*I* but not many others, could probably come up with a likely 
identification of this Clematis from just what you have provided but why 
should I go to all the effort and trouble, when you will not set an example 
for others to follow?  And continue to make it much more difficult and 
time-consuming.

*It is quality not quantity which counts.  What is the good of being the 
'largest' data-base of a particular category, if this data-base contains 
the 'largest' number of misidentified species?*

Without a strictly limited number of individuals like myself, with unique 
knowledge either of genera or regional floras, efI will continue to be 
littered with *misidentified* images.

I have spent (and largely wasted) more than 30 years building up what 
appears to be an-rivalled level of knowledge of Himalayan flora as a whole, 
particularly flora
of the NW Himalaya, yet despite "bending over backwards" offering to help, 
free-of-charge, Indian botanists, not one has shown any interest. I 
recollect approaching the then Director of the Botanical Survey of India 
(in the mid-1980s) offering to jointly collaborate with Indian botanists on 
an up-to-date flora for Ladakh - I was told that this was for 'Indian' 
botanists.  Well, I have patiently waited for more than 30 years, yet no 
such flora has been forthcoming.  

I worked hard, in serious ill-health, from September 2016 to March 2017, 
attempting to advise eFI, yet I was completely ignored (not to 
mention insulted by a senior figure).

We have an expression in the UK, "You can take a horse to water, but you 
cannot make it drink".  Senior figures in eFI are "in denial" - unwilling 
to listen.

It makes no sense for me to continue.   On 29th September Mr Garg posted:

Sh. Chris Chadwell - Thanks for his wonderful contributions. 

Dear members,
As and when I encounter his threads while updating efi site, it is a 
pleasant feeling to be associated with him for a while. It always reminds 
me of his wonderful contributions & guidance for building of efloraofindia. 
I knew that he was in great pain and despite that he contributed a lot.
Although he is no longer with us, but his name will always remain *etched 
in efloraofindia* 
 & in 
the memory of our members & others who get benefitted in future due to his 
contributions. 

*When I first read this, sounding, if it had been posted in the UK, that I 
had actually "passed away" i.e. was dead, I smiled and noted the 
complimentary comments. Perhaps it would be like reading an obituary or 
words read at a funeral, which are always positive. Were they really 
meant?  The telling fact is that not one member posted as a follow-up.  It 
would be reasonable to conclude that efI as a whole would prefer I did 
'depart'.  The only smart course of action for me is to comply with this 
sentiment.*

*FAIR ENOUGH, eFI has chosen to throw away, not only the 
once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to improve (which it urgently needs to) and 
move up to 'international'* *standards but even more.*

*I cannot beat those in denial...  So this will be my final post.   
What a waste.*


-- 



On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 11:59:09 AM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju 
wrote:

> Dear Members,
>
> Location: Nagarkot, Nepal  
> Date: 12 December 2017
> Altitude: 6800 ft.
>
> Clematis ... !  ???
>
> Thank you.
>
> Saroj Kasaju
>

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[efloraofindia:283154] Re: Dear sir please help me to identify the following species

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Dear Akshay - as for previous image, I repeat it is always much more 
difficult and time-consuming to reliably identify a plant when there is 
only a single image and there is insufficient close-up detail of floral 
parts and foliage.  Some species within a genus can be distinctive enough 
and readily matched but it is always useful to have "supporting evidence".  
PLEASE, on future occasions take and submit many more images per specimen, 
in good focus and close-up - if you refer to my web-site on the flora of 
the NW Himalaya (see: 
*https://sites.google.com/a/shpa.org.uk/fowh/impatiens-1* 
) this will offer 
extensive advice; do look through the whole site but first see the images 
taken of Impatiens glandulifera showing much greater detail, obtained using 
a modest compact digital camera.As you can see, the images provide vastly 
more information - which I view as "clues", the equivalent to pieces in a 
jig-saw puzzle.  The more pieces, which one can view clearly, the easier it 
is to arrive at an identification and the greater confidence one has in 
it.  Otherwise one can readily end up with a misidentification.  Too many 
data-bases, whether digital or old-fashioned printed ones, just with text 
or pictures, are littered with misidentified plants, which contributes to 
confusion and misleads.

The photo above is definitely a member of the Apiaceae family (previously 
known as Umbelliferae).  This is a difficult family identification-wise, 
especially when detail is missing or the specimens are immature - at times 
mature fruits can be required to confirm an identification.  Much more 
study of this family is required.  Your single images fail to reveal 
important characteristics of the flowers and bracts plus one cannot tell 
what the lower leaves are like.  I do not currently have the time, nor can 
justify the time, trying to work out which genus it belongs to.  Perhaps 
other members of the group can?  At first glance it seems distinctive.  
What seem to be Potentilla foliage is covering the base - it is important 
to examine the base/lower leaves of a plant and work out, at the time, 
which these are, so there is
not any confusion.  On quite a number of occasions I have seen posts on the 
efI data-base with comments showing that confusion had arisen as to which 
leaves
belonged to the flower photographed.  PLEASE photograph close-up, in good 
focus, much more detail incl. "undersides".

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 7:05:34 PM UTC, akshay prashar wrote:

> Respected member,
>
>  please help me to identify the following species
>
> Species for Identification - 
>
> loaction - Deothachi ,Mandi District,Himachal Pradesh
>   
> Altitude- 2800-3200m 
>
> Date 12- August-2017
> *Thanks & Regards*
>Akshay Prashar
>
>
> 
>
>

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[efloraofindia:283153] Re: Dear sir please help me to identify the following species

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Dear Akshay - it is always much more difficult and time-consuming to 
reliably identify a plant when there is only a single image and there is 
insufficient close-up detail of floral parts and foliage.  Some species 
within a genus can be distinctive enough and readily matched but it is 
always useful to have "supporting evidence".  PLEASE, on future occasions 
take and submit many more images per specimen, in good focus and close-up - 
if you refer to my web-site on the flora of the NW Himalaya (see: 
https://sites.google.com/a/shpa.org.uk/fowh/impatiens-1) this will offer 
extensive advice; do look through the whole site but first see the images 
taken of Impatiens glandulifera showing much greater detail, obtained using 
a modest compact digital camera.As you can see, the images provide vastly 
more information - which I view as "clues", the equivalent to pieces in a 
jig-saw puzzle.  The more piece, which one can view clearly, the easier it 
is to arrive at an identification and the greater confidence one has in 
it.  Otherwise one can readily end up with a misidentification.  Too many 
data-bases, whether digital or old-fashioned printed ones, just with text 
or pictures, a littered with misidentified plants, which contributes to 
confusion and misleads.

As to this particular image, it is certainly of a *Campanula* and seems to 
be *C.pallida* - the flowers seem relatively large. I cannot see some of 
the detail, so have some reservations.  'Flowers of the Himalaya' records 
this from Afghanistan to SE China @ 1200-4500m in cultivated areas, on 
stone walls and banks - which this seems to be (amongst Cotoneaster, 
Geranium and Potentilla, reminding me of equivalent elevation on the 
Rohtang).  Stewart knew this as *C.colorata*, describing it as very common 
and very variable from 500-2800m in N.Pakistan and Kashmir - some forms are 
very weedy in appearance.  He recognised var. *tibetica*, recorded from 
Chitral through to Ladakh; I saw at the base of boulders at Koksar (just 
over the Rohtang Pass in Lahaul) what I considered to be this variant - 
Stewart fight it might well be given specific rank but the plant you 
photographed does not fit this.

There are quite a number of Campanulas known in the NW Himalaya - much 
confusion remains as to distinguishing between some of them.  In 
cultivation, such
Campanulas appear to be prone to hybridisation.  I wonder if that is a 
factor in the wild?  If so, that would certainly complicate matters.  IF 
those posting images on EFI can take more quality images, this will help us 
resolve numerous identification riddles.  When covering *C.alsinoides* 
Stewart observed that this seemed like an apetalous form of *C.colorata* 
var. tibetica (see above) or of *C.argyrotricha*.  He stated that the 
cleistogamous forms of Campanula are often hard to identify.  He thought 
someone needed to cultivate the forms of this genus in the garden or a 
greenhouse.

Excuse this all sounding complicated but unfortunately, it often is, if one 
is to arrive at an identification which can be relied upon - otherwise we 
just increase the muddle and confusion.

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 7:07:59 PM UTC, akshay prashar wrote:

> Respected member,
>
>  please help me to identify the following species
>
> Species for Identification - 
>
> loaction - Deothachi ,Mandi District,Himachal Pradesh
>   
> Altitude- 2800-3200m 
>
> Date 12- August-2017
> *Thanks & Regards*
>Akshay Prashar
>
>
> 
>
>

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[efloraofindia:283071] Re: Arisaema tortuosum

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Have not got time to name both but I am sure Pascal will be able to rapidly 
sort the 3 images out -
surely there is *more than* one species of Arisaema photographed at 
Kalimpong?  The second image does appear to match *A.tortuosum* but
not the first and third - which belong to a markedly different species.  
Would be helpful to know the elevation?
It is not uncommon for there to be more than one species of a genus growing 
amongst each other, some
of which are difficult to tell apart - these are not. One should always be 
alert to this.

On Saturday, December 2, 2017 at 9:44:59 AM UTC, dpr61 wrote:

> Location Kalimpong West Bengal
>
> Sir,
> Kindly identify it
> Thank you
> Yours faithfully
> Digpati Roy
>

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[efloraofindia:282937] Re: Osbeckia stellata ???

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Dear Saroj

Your observations about what you *thought* was *Osbeckia stellata* on the 
Goecha La route at some 3700m caught my eye.

This struck me as *much* higher an elevation than previously recorded.  
According to 'Enumeration of the Flowering Plants of
Nepal' Vol 2 (1979) the highest *O.stellata* was known from was 2600m.  *For 
a species to be recorded 1100m higher than ever before,*
*would be most surprising.*  All that can be said is that according to your 
memory, based upon a quick glance, you came across what
you thought was probably *O.stellata*.  *Do you have any photos or 
specimens to support this surprising suggestion?*

'Flowers of the Himalaya' says 1200-2400m, Uttarakhand to Arunachal Pradesh 
and what was Burma for *Oxytropis stellata*.

R. Clement in 'Flora of Bhutan' Vol 2 Part 1 (1991) which also covered 
Sikkim (which as you known borders E.Nepal and now
being Indian territory is of particular interest to eFI members) says 
*O.stellata* is extremely variable and a number of authors have
recognised the differences at specific level.   Hansen (1977) 'Asiatic 
species of *Osbeckia* (Ginkgoana 4: 1-150) considered the taxa
poorly defined, recognising taxa within *O.stellata*.  Clement adopted this 
treatment.  He gives three varieties: *stellata*; *rostrata*; *crinita.*


He described var.*crinita* from open hillsides and rock crevices @ 
1520-2290.  That is by far the highest elevation any taxon of *Osbeckia*
recorded from Bhutan or Sikkim but still 1400m lower than 3700m!


On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 12:56:53 PM UTC+1, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:

Dear Mr. Garg,
>
> Sharing some pictures of Osbeckia stellata for verification . Pictures 
> were shot at Telakot, Magarkot Nepal on 30 July 1016 at 6000 ft.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Saroj Kasaju
>

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[efloraofindia:282771] Re: Ipomoea sp SN251117

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I immediately recognised what this was - an invasive ubiquitous weed I came 
across during my first expedition to Ladakh in 1980, which I knew from the 
UK; Stewart knew it from Sind and Punjab to 3600m in Ladakh & Baltistan.

Pity only 2 images, not in close-up and with the flowers over-exposed (to 
be fair, it is difficult to get the exposure right for white, yellow and 
similar-
coloured flowers on a bright sunny day in Ladakh) were sent.  An 
approximate altitude should always be given.

Perhaps the confusion has arisen by the incorrect suggestion of it 
belonging to the Ipomoea genus?  I do not know why this genus was
suggested.  Please, please, would posters of images consider the geographic 
and altitudinal ranges of genera and individual species before
making suggestions as to identification, particularly if they are senior 
figures, as in many entries I see them immediately out of respect - yet they
are clearly incorrect.  A large number of Ipomoea are known from India - 
many being natives of tropical America, cultivated in warm countries
for their pretty flowers.  However, no species have been recorded wild or 
cultivated from Ladakh - it would probably be possible to cultivate 
*I.purpurea* 
at Leh, if it was provided with the necessary protection (this plant is 
grown in Srinagar and the Murree Hills; Collet recorded it in the valleys 
below Shimla)
but obviously the plant Santhan photographed is not this.

The species photographed, assuming in the future, it is not subdivided into 
more than one, is highly variable in terms of corolla colour and leaf-shape 
- with
quite a number of forms and varieties recognised.

On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 1:23:06 AM UTC, Santhan P wrote:

> Wild herb from Hemis area Ladakh
>

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[efloraofindia:282761] Re: Asclepiadaceae member for ID from Uttarakhand_DSR_October 2017_2

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I do not understand why 'Tylophora barbata', a plant known only from a 
limited part of Australia has been suggested.  A quick glance shows that of 
the images
available on the internet (assuming they are correct and they probably are 
in this case - though *frequently are not*) do not come close to those 
photos taken by Dr Rawat. What herbarium specimens have been examined to 
conclude it belongs only to this genus?  Please explain on what basis it 
only belongs to the genus *Tylophora*? Too much reliance is put on glancing 
at images on the internet.  It really is important that the geographic and 
altitudinal distributions are considered when suggesting likely 
identifications. Most genera and individual species are variable. 

Furthermore, it is often impossible to decide which genus or species a 
plant belongs to on the basis of a small number of photos only.

I am raising really important issues which EFI needs to address.

On Friday, October 20, 2017 at 2:33:15 PM UTC+1, D.S Rawat wrote:

> This perennial climber was seen and photographed in our last trekking to 
> Ralam village in Uttarakhand. It was found distributed in temperate 
> broadleaf forests between 2200-2500m elevations. 
>
> Please suggest the ID.
> DSRawat Pantnagar
>
> 
> Dr D.S. Rawat
> Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & 
> Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA
> *eflorapantnagar*  
> displaying wild flora of Pantnagar
>

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[efloraofindia:281909] Re: identifying a plant

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Dear Dr Sabu

You say that there are 4 species of *Zingiber* with identical 'fruits' but 
do not tell us which ones.  Would you kindly do so, along with their known 
geographic and
altitudinal ranges and how to distinguish between them when in flower?

I cannot find 4 candidate species of this genus from the Himalayan 
foothills but my references, at the very best, are decades out-of-date.  I 
have seen in Nepal, what I took to be *Z.chrysanthum* Roscoe, which looks 
similar to the specimen Ratnakar collected near Shimla.  Note that this 
species was known to Hooker in his FBI - where a distribution from Kumaon 
to Sikkim was given.  In the Supplement to 'Flowers of the Himalaya', 
authored (with its publication privately funded alone) by the late Adam 
Stainton who devoted decades to studying Himalayan flora; he was a man of 
'independent' means financially, having inherited money.  Whilst mentioning 
this, all members of efi should be grateful for his efforts but it is time 
to realise that the widespread belief that *every* Britisher is a 
millionaire is incorrect - the truth is that many struggle financially.  
Anyhow, in Stainton's book published in 1997, there is a photo and brief 
description of *Zingiber chrysanthum* - he gives a distribution of 
Uttarakund to Sikkim @ 450-1600m.  So specimens found near Shimla would 
represent an extension of its range.  *But what of these other, similar 
species, which I know nothing about?  *There is no mention of this 
*Z.chrysanthum* in Collet's 'Flora Simlensis'. 

*There seems to be some confusion as to what part of the plant was 
collected by Ratnakar.  Stainton says Z.chrysanthum has flowers in dense 
globose or oblong heads direct from the tuberous rootstock.  Corolla-tube 
3.75-5cm long; segments bright red, lanceolate; lip bright yellow, deeply 
5-lobed.  The capsules are bright red, oblong, splitting open when ripe (as 
has happened in the specimen photographed above); the seed is as large as a 
pea, globose, with a white translucent aril.  Stainton records it as 
flowering in August, fruiting in October.  In Ratnakar's photo you can see 
the seeds in the whitish fleshy covering.  It is not uncommon for the 
foliage of plants to partly or fully "rot away" leaving on the fruits/seeds 
- which can lead to confusion or difficulty with identification.  This 
happens e.g. with some species of Arisaema and this Zingiber.*

*Another important lesson to learn from this example is the need to go 
exploring for plants in the late autumn and early winter months, as we need 
to understand and familiarise ourselves not just with the flowers of a 
plant species but its fruits and seeds.*

Clearly, all genera in the Zingiberaceae family are in need of further 
study in India (and elsewhere).  May I repeat my request for *more* and 
better close-up, in focus photos to be taken per plant encountered. This 
applies to ALL families and genera of plants.  Sometimes, a species is 
distinctive enough to be identified from a single non-close-up image but 
*often* that is not the case.  For further advice see: 
https://sites.google.com/a/shpa.org.uk/fowh/

Traditionally, plants were identified using dried, pressed specimens in 
herbaria (the worse the weather, the more difficult it is to collect, dry 
and pressed specimens for herbaria) - now members of efI have the 
opportunity of photographing (year round) India's flora in close-up, 
providing details and information not available in the past.  The weather 
or temperature may not be as favourable later in the year but well worth 
the effort/discomfort.  Presumably, the reason *Zingiber chrysanthum* was 
missed in forest near Shimla in the past was not that it did not grow there 
but that few, if any, botanists ventured out there at that time of the 
year - so my compliments to Ratnakar for exploring at this time of the 
year.  May I encourage him to undertake more field work - though be sure to 
take more photos.

On Monday, November 20, 2017 at 4:52:59 AM UTC, ratnakar tripathy wrote:

>
> *Dear All,*
>
> *Kindly help me identify this plant taken intact from a forest near 
> Shimla. the photo is attached. it is not just a flower but a plant rooted 
> in the soil. Google image search came up with 'pepper' in italian. *
> *ratnakar*
> Fellow,
> Indian Institute of Advanced Studies [IIAS], Shimla 171005
> ph: 0177 2830348
>
>
>
> (Personal Mobile: +91-9608223908/8988871591)
>   
>

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[efloraofindia:281218] Re: SK849 03 Nov-2017:ID

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Dear Mr Garg

I consider it highly speculative to attempt to identify a Rhododendron on 
the base of non-close up images of foliage alone.
As per my recent post indicating that the images of another Rhododendron 
were not *R.anthopogon*, I repeat the need for
close-up images. Even then, unless you have specialist familiarity with the 
genus *Rhododendron* in the Eastern Himalaya
(which you do not), better to wait until others, with greater expertise, 
comment.

The traditional way of identifying a plant was to send or deliver a quality 
pressed specimen of it to a herbarium.  At Kew, if
the specimen was scrappy (poor) or was not in flower or at the fruiting 
stage, they would DISCARD it.

It is hard enough reliably naming Eastern Himalayan Rhododendrons when in 
flower - unless the foliage is distinctive, then
from leaves alone (especially when close-up detail is not shown - one can 
barely make out the colour of the indumentum on
the undersides of the leaves) is challenging.  There may well be someone 
with specialist knowledge who can conclude, with
confidence, which species of Rhododendron the above images are of but 
better to wait until they are available.

'Flowers of the Himalaya' (1984) gives an altitudinal range for *R.wightii* 
of 3600-4300m.  Whilst it is not impossible that this
species might be found at 3300m (plus the altitude given might be merely an 
estimate and it could have been higher), nevertheless,
it must be viewed as speculative.

The situation in the North-West Himalaya is much easier, with only *4* 
species being known.

I reinforce my comments about the risks of comparing with images on the eFI 
data-base.

On Friday, November 3, 2017 at 6:32:13 AM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:

> Dear Members,
>
> Location: Thulo Phedi, Taplejung, Nepal
> Date: 18 April 2017
> Altitude: 11000 ft. 
>
> Rhodendron ... ???
>
> Thank you.
>
> Saroj Kasaju
>

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[efloraofindia:281213] Re: SK848 03 Nov-2017:ID

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

 

Dear Mr Garg

 

Sorry but the *Rhododendron* photographed at Thulo Phedi, Nepal by Saroj is 
*definitely* not *R.anthopogon*.  I do not have the time to check further 
but it is not close!  Part of the problem is that *only* 5 images are 
provided and they are *all* some distance away from the plants themselves.  
It may well be that there are others who will immediately recognise the 
correct species but without close-ups of the flowers or foliage (incl. 
undersides of leaves) the identification process is much harder and of 
course the flowers are only in bud, which makes the challenge greater.

 

Whilst *R.anthopogon* is a candidate in terms of being found at such 
elevations in Nepal and a common species, if one takes a quick look at even 
a brief written summary of the characteristics of this species, such as in 
'Flowers of the Himalaya' (1984) it immediately becomes apparent the images 
taken at Thulo Phedi are *not* of *R.anthopogon*.  *It really is important 
to secure close-up images of flowers and foliage - if this means climbing 
up branches, then this needs to be done (if that is beyond your physical 
capabilities, then a more nimble companion could undertake the ascent, 
gather a small spray inl. foliage and bring back down – this sampling would 
not damage a tall shrub or tree; any shrub or tree near habitation is 
liable to be lopped for fire-wood or felled for various purposes, so a 
one-off, modest gathering for photographic purposes has no conservation 
implications, just as a Nepalese botanist is entitled to gather a sample 
for pressing to use to get an identification in a herbarium).*

 
*BUT, why would such climbing be required if it was R.anthopogon - as the 
highest it gets to is to 60cm!  The much taller specimens photographed by 
Saroj are clearly not a dwarf shrub - I am familiar with R.anthopogon 
typically at c. 30cm.*

*I plan to latter comment in detail about comparison with existing images 
of Rhododendron or any other genus on the eFI data-base but shall limit 
myself to one brief example.  The assumption that is made when comparing 
images, is that almost all the 'reference' images have been correctly 
identified.  IF they have not, this leads to confusion and further 
misidentifications.  So let us see: 
https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/a---l/e/ericaceae/rhododendron/rhododendron-anthopogon
 

 - 
unfortunately, the second image (only a single one and not a good close-up) 
taken at Tawang, Arunachal) is not*
*Rhododendron anthopogon.  Further confusion.*


On Friday, November 3, 2017 at 6:28:33 AM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:
>
> Dear Members,
>
> Location: Thulo Phedi, Taplejung, Nepal
> Date: 18 April 2017
> Altitude: 11000 ft. 
>
> Rhododendron ...???
>
> Thank you.
>
> Saroj Kasaju
>

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[efloraofindia:280763] Re: Flora of Uttarakhand- Plant5 for Id- JM

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Dear Mr Garg?,

Yes, your images are of *immature* capsules of a *Codonopsis*.  However, it 
is always much more difficult to identify with confidence on the
basis of even 4 images - nice though they may well be and in sharp focus 
(which is important).  Whilst it is possible to do this, especially for 
distinctive examples,
particularly if those specialists familiar with a genus or regional flora 
are available to inspect them but otherwise, it can be difficult, at best, 
time consuming,
often *impossible to arrive at a determination one can have confidence in*. 
Many more images are needed including close-up detail of floral parts (not 
available on this occasion) and foliage - it would have been helpful to 
have close-ups of both upper and lower surfaces of leaves incl. both upper 
and lower leaves if there was any difference, edge of leaves and shape of 
base etc.. In the past, definite identification took place by comparison of 
dried, pressed specimens of each plant with reference specimens stored in 
cabinets in herbaria.  The reliability of the resultant identifications 
depends upon the quality of both the freshly collected specimen and 
reference ones found in any herbarium plus the availability of taxonomists 
with specialist knowledge of 'difficult' genera.  The poorer, scrappier the 
specimens, the hardier the process is.  

Nowadays, if one is to substitute photos for specimens (as few people are 
now permitted to gather pressed specimens these days), each time someone 
photographs a plant, they need to be taking *many* more images if they are 
to seek a reliable identification - with today's digital cameras, it costs 
practically nothing to take *as many* images as one likes.  Nowadays, I 
typically take 20-30 images per plant.  Once one gets into the habit of 
doing this, it does not take that long!  For further information of what 
should be done, see: https://sites.google.com/a/shpa.org.uk/fowh/; 
whilst https://sites.google.com/a/shpa.org.uk/fowh/impatiens-1 provides an 
example of the detail which a modest digital camera can produce for *Impatiens 
glandulifera*; I have only just started my 'Flowers of the North-West 
Himalaya - a virtual guide..' so have yet to cover *Codonopsis*.

There is a widespread and long-standing belief  (both in India and the 
West) that one can take just one or two images (when I began serious 
botanizing in the 1980s, this was the most one could afford and even with a 
quality macro-lens and tripod one did not obtain comparable close-ups to 
those one can readily take, with some practise using today's digital 
cameras) and rapidly 'match' them with one or two images in a book or on 
the internet (I advise eFI members that a significant proportion of the 
images one finds by typing a species name into a search engine have been 
misidentified). 

*I must emphasise that this 'belief' is incorrect and should be 
challenged.  The reason for this is that 'nice' though the photographs may 
or may not be, they often do not show sufficient close-up detail, indeed on 
many occasions do not reveal the diagnostic characteristics.  Plant 
identifications which can be relied upon, have traditionally and largely 
remain, based upon characteristics which can be observed on dried pressed 
specimens in herbaria - at times examination using hand lenses (@ x10 
magnification or higher), binocular* *microscopes (@ x20-40 magnification 
or even greater scrutiny are required, not features seen on fresh plants in 
the wild with the naked eye or non-close-up photos.  So IF we are to 
largely replace herbarium specimens, it is essential that plant 
photographers take the time and effort to record each specimen they come 
across in depth, with many more images. But it is not simply a question of 
the number of images but their quality and which characteristics they 
illustrate!  As always, the emphasis be QUALITY rather than QUANTITY.*


Now let us consider the images taken during a trek between 3300-4200m in 
Uttarakhand with the identification of *Codonopsis viridis*.  It is 
certainly a *Codonopsis* which is quite a distinctive genus but it is not 
always possible to* readily* distinguish between the species, so if one 
does not have close-ups of different floral parts and/or foliage, this 
becomes more challenging. On this occasion one does have in focus close-ups 
of calyces.  Leaving aside the morphological features, the geographic 
location, elevation found and habitat must be taken into consideration 
before suggesting an identification - *frequently, this does happen in 
postings*..  According to 'Flowers of the Himalaya' (please note this is 
*not* a flora but merely a brief guide to *common* and *showier* species 
which only covers *a fraction* of the total flora - and is now 30+ years 
out-of-date in terms of nomenclature and taxonomic treatments) *C.viridis* 
has never been recorded from Himachal Pradesh, its known upper altitudinal 
limit being 2700m - at least 600m 

[efloraofindia:280762] Re: Wild Cucurbit SN61117

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Dear Santhan,

Further to my comments about the images of a *Codonopsis* taken in H.P. 
(above), it is always much more difficult to identify with confidence on the
basis of only 1 or 2 images - especially when not close-up or fully in 
focus.  Whilst it is still possible to do this, especially for distinctive 
examples,
particularly if those specialists familiar with a genus or regional flora 
are available to inspect them but otherwise, it can be difficult, at best, 
time consuming,
often *impossible to arrive at a determination one can have confidence in*. 
Many more images are needed including close-up detail of floral parts and 
foliage. In
the past, definite identification took place by comparison of dried, 
pressed specimens of each plant with reference specimens stored in cabinets 
in herbaria.  The reliability of the resultant identifications depends upon 
the quality of both the freshly collected specimen and reference ones found 
in any herbarium plus the availability of taxonomists with specialist 
knowledge of 'difficult' genera.  The poorer, scrappier the specimens, the 
hardier the process is.  In the case of photos, if they are not in focus, 
this makes reliably identifying them *much* harder.

Nowadays, if one is to substitute photos for specimens (as few people are 
now permitted to gather pressed specimens these days), each time someone 
photographs a plant, they need to be taking *many* more images if they are 
to seek a reliable identification - with today's digital cameras, it costs 
practically nothing to take *as many* images as one likes - though they 
need to be in focus.  Nowadays, I typically take 20-30 images per plant.  
Once one gets into the habit of doing this, it does not take that long!  
For further information of what should be done, see: 
https://sites.google.com/a/shpa.org.uk/fowh/; 
whilst https://sites.google.com/a/shpa.org.uk/fowh/impatiens-1 provides an 
example of the detail which a modest digital camera can produce for *Impatiens 
glandulifera.*

There is a widespread and long-standing belief  (both in India and the 
West) that one can take just one or two images (when I began serious 
botanizing in the 1980s, this was the most one could afford and even with a 
quality macro-lens and tripod one did not obtain comparable close-ups to 
those one can readily take, with some practise using today's digital 
cameras) and rapidly 'match' them with one or two images in a book or on 
the internet (I advise eFI members that a significant proportion of the 
images one finds by typing a species name into a search engine have been 
misidentified). 

*I must emphasise that this 'belief' is incorrect and should be 
challenged.  The reason for this is that 'nice' though the photographs may 
or may not be, they often do not show sufficient close-up detail, indeed on 
many occasions do not reveal the diagnostic characteristics.  Plant 
identifications which can be relied upon, have traditionally and largely 
remain, based upon characteristics which can be observed on dried pressed 
specimens in herbaria - at times examination using hand lenses (@ x10 
magnification or higher), binocular* *microscopes (@ x20-40 magnification 
or even greater scrutiny are required, not features seen on fresh plants in 
the wild with the naked eye or non-close-up photos.  So IF we are to 
largely replace herbarium specimens, it is essential that plant 
photographers take the time and effort to record each specimen they come 
across in depth, with many more images. But it is not simply a question of 
the number of images but their quality and which characteristics they 
illustrate!  As always, the emphasis be QUALITY rather than QUANTITY.*


Now let us consider the images taken at Kathi, Pindari glacier way, which 
after input from Dr Rawat (whose contributions can almost always be relied 
upon) the suggested identification changed from Cucurbitaceae to 
*Codonopsis* then *C.viridis*. It is REALLY important to provide the c. 
altitude where this was found, along with the habitat if that is not clear 
from the photos. A quick internet search puts the village itself at c. 
2200m but presumably the photos could have been from somewhat higher or 
lower elevation.  Leaving aside the morphological features, the geographic 
location, elevation found and habitat must be taken into consideration 
before suggesting an identification - *frequently, this does happen in eFI 
postings*..

It is certainly a *Codonopsis* which is quite a distinctive genus but it is 
not always possible to* readily* distinguish between the species, so if one 
does not have close-ups of different floral parts and/or foliage, this 
becomes more challenging.According to 'Flowers of the Himalaya' (please 
note this is *not* a flora but merely a brief guide to *common* and 
*showier* species which only covers *a fraction* of the total flora - and 
is now 30+ years out-of-date in terms of nomenclature and taxonomic 
treatments) 

[efloraofindia:280757] Re: Campanulaceae & Gentianaceae Fortnight: Codonopsis viridis from Himachal : GSG-04

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Dear Dr Goraya,

I enjoyed viewing your pretty pictures, in good focus.  However, it is 
always much more difficult to identify with confidence on the
basis of only 1 or 2 images - nice though they may well be and in sharp 
focus (which is important).  Whilst it is possible to do this, especially 
for distinctive examples,
particularly if those specialists familiar with a genus or regional flora 
are available to inspect them but otherwise, it can be difficult, at best, 
time consuming,
often *impossible to arrive at a determination one can have confidence in*. 
Many more images are needed including close-up detail of floral parts and 
foliage. In
the past, definite identification took place by comparison of dried, 
pressed specimens of each plant with reference specimens stored in cabinets 
in herbaria.  The reliability of the resultant identifications depends upon 
the quality of both the freshly collected specimen and reference ones found 
in any herbarium plus the availability of taxonomists with specialist 
knowledge of 'difficult' genera.  The poorer, scrappier the specimens, the 
hardier the process is.  

Nowadays, if one is to substitute photos for specimens (as few people are 
now permitted to gather pressed specimens these days), each time someone 
photographs a plant, they need to be taking *many* more images if they are 
to seek a reliable identification - with today's digital cameras, it costs 
practically nothing to take *as many* images as one likes.  Nowadays, I 
typically take 20-30 images per plant.  Once one gets into the habit of 
doing this, it does not take that long!  For further information of what 
should be done, see: https://sites.google.com/a/shpa.org.uk/fowh/; 
whilst https://sites.google.com/a/shpa.org.uk/fowh/impatiens-1 provides an 
example of the detail which a modest digital camera can produce for *Impatiens 
glandulifera*; I have only just started my 'Flowers of the North-West 
Himalaya - a virtual guide..' so have yet to cover *Codonopsis*.

There is a widespread and long-standing belief  (both in India and the 
West) that one can take just one or two images (when I began serious 
botanizing in the 1980s, this was the most one could afford and even with a 
quality macro-lens and tripod one did not obtain comparable close-ups to 
those one can readily take, with some practise using today's digital 
cameras) and rapidly 'match' them with one or two images in a book or on 
the internet (I advise eFI members that a significant proportion of the 
images one finds by typing a species name into a search engine have been 
misidentified). 

*I must emphasise that this 'belief' is incorrect and should be 
challenged.  The reason for this is that 'nice' though the photographs may 
or may not be, they often do not show sufficient close-up detail, indeed on 
many occasions do not reveal the diagnostic characteristics.  Plant 
identifications which can be relied upon, have traditionally and largely 
remain, based upon characteristics which can be observed on dried pressed 
specimens in herbaria - at times examination using hand lenses (@ x10 
magnification or higher), binocular* *microscopes (@ x20-40 magnification 
or even greater scrutiny are required, not features seen on fresh plants in 
the wild with the naked eye or non-close-up photos.  So IF we are to 
largely replace herbarium specimens, it is essential that plant 
photographers take the time and effort to record each specimen they come 
across in depth, with many more images. But it is not simply a question of 
the number of images but their quality and which characteristics they 
illustrate!  As always, the emphasis be QUALITY rather than QUALITY.*


Now let us consider the images taken at c. 3000m in the GHNP, Kulu, H.P. 
with the identification of *Codonopsis viridis*.  It is certainly a 
*Codonopsis* which is quite a distinctive genus but it is not always 
possible to* readily* distinguish between the species, so if one does not 
have close-ups of different floral parts and/or foliage, this becomes more 
challenging.  Leaving aside the morphological features, the geographic 
location, elevation found and habitat must be taken into consideration 
before suggesting an identification - *frequently, this does happen in 
postings*..  According to 'Flowers of the Himalaya' (please note this is 
*not* a flora but merely a brief guide to *common* and *showier* species 
which only covers *a fraction* of the total flora - and is now 30+ years 
out-of-date in terms of nomenclature and taxonomic treatments) *C.viridis* 
has never been recorded from Himachal Pradesh, its known upper altitudinal 
limit being 2700m - 300m lower than where it was photographed.  Whilst 
extensions to geographic and altitudinal ranges do occur, in most cases 
they are unlikely, so one should examine images more closely and re-think 
which species one thinks it *might* be.

A quick look at the small photo of *C.viridis* in 'Flowers of the Himalaya' 
and 

[efloraofindia:279915] Re: PLANT FOR ID 94 SMP JUN 09 Manali

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Professor Singh - this plant does not match *Ajuga bracteosa* - not close.  
According to 'The Plant List' this is not a valid name but I currently do 
not
know what *Ajuga bracteosa* Wallich ex Benth. should named as.  I do not 
have the time to check further what this might be.  Did not immediately 
recognise it
nor have come across it around Manali myself.  As you know, it is much 
easier (and quicker) to tell what something is not, rather than what it is!

On Saturday, July 18, 2009 at 7:32:08 PM UTC+1, satish phadke wrote:

> A herb seen in Manali.
> Flowers larger than the ones posted earlier (*Thymus linearis*)
> Dr Satish Phadke
> -- 
>
> http:// satishphadke.blogspot.com 
>

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[efloraofindia:279914] Re: PLANT FOR ID 94 SMP JUN 09 Manali

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Dear Satish - the plant from Manali is definitely not *Lancea tibetica*, 
not being close.  Also, one would be very surprised if this species were 
found
around Manali as it is typically found in the borderlands of Tibet in damp 
places and grazing grounds.  I have seen this e.g. in Zangskar.  Also its 
altitudinal
range (according to 'Flowers of the Himalaya') is 3000-4800m, so coming 
across it c. 2200m (or so) would represent a major extension of the 
previously
known range.

On Saturday, July 18, 2009 at 7:32:08 PM UTC+1, satish phadke wrote:

> A herb seen in Manali.
> Flowers larger than the ones posted earlier (*Thymus linearis*)
> Dr Satish Phadke
> -- 
>
> http:// satishphadke.blogspot.com 
>

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[efloraofindia:279913] Re: PLANT FOR ID 94 SMP JUN 09 Manali

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Dear Dr Phadke - may I recommend on future occasions, you take *many* more 
images per plant specimen you wish identified.  Taking just one or two 
general images which do not reveal characteristic/diagnostic 
characteristics often make it much more difficult and time-consuming for 
those attempting to identify said images - at times it is impossible.  I 
suggest you consult my 'Flowers of the NW Himalaya' website, which has many 
relevant sections which should answer any questions you may have: 
https://sites.google.com/a/shpa.org.uk/fowh/.  I draw your attention to the 
entry for *Impatiens glandulifera* as an example of what can be done with a 
modestly-priced digital camera: 
https://sites.google.com/a/shpa.org.uk/fowh/impatiens-1 - I do not expect 
you to suddenly jump from taking just a single image to many but you should 
aim to head in this direction.  As you can see from the numerous images of 
'Himalayan Balsam' they provide so much more information and in greater 
detail.  The more close-ups one can inspect the greater understanding one 
gets of a plant.  I hope you can see the value of this.  With practise one 
can learn to rapidly take close-up images in focus.  The problem with you 
image is that it shows little or no detail of floral parts or foliage.  
There may be a member of eFI who recognises the plant with confidence but 
at least two of the suggestions given below are nowhere near to the correct 
identification.  IF you can post more quality images each time you ask for 
an identification, this would greatly benefit the eFI data-base.

On Saturday, July 18, 2009 at 7:32:08 PM UTC+1, satish phadke wrote:
>
> A herb seen in Manali.
> Flowers larger than the ones posted earlier (*Thymus linearis*)
> Dr Satish Phadke
> -- 
>
> http:// satishphadke.blogspot.com 
>

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[efloraofindia:279578] Re: Impatiens amplexicaulis Edgew. Please verify??

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Re: Saroj's guess of *Impatiens glandulifera* kindly check AND READ THROUGH 
ALL THE CONTENT OF: https://sites.google.com/a/shpa.org.uk/fowh/impatiens-1
ALSO: 
https://sites.google.com/a/shpa.org.uk/fowh/how-not-to-attempt-to-identify-plants
  
INDEED ALL OF MY 'FLOWERS OF THE NORTH-WEST HIMALAYA - A VIRTUAL GUIDE: 
https://sites.google.com/a/shpa.org.uk/fowh/.

*I wonder how many Impatiens in the Himalaya have stipular glands?*  Any 
characteristic of foliage which is either diagnostic of a particular 
species or can help to distinguish between a number of species, when a 
specimen is not in flower is especially useful is such a challenging genus 
identification-wise.  It would be helpful if members of eFI (after 
carefully digesting ALL the content of my 'virtual' guide mentioned 
above) who can access colonies of *I.glandulifera* in the Himalaya, could 
check if reddish roots at lower notes do exhibit an antiseptic odour as in 
the UK.  

HAPPY READING... I CONSIDER MY 'VIRTUAL' GUIDE (WHICH IS IN ITS EARLY 
STAGES) SHOULD BE *ESSENTIAL* BACKGROUND READING FOR ALL EFLORAOFINDIA 
MEMBERS, NOT JUST CONTRIBUTORS OF IMAGES.

As for *I.glandulifera*, as far as I know, this species is not recorded for 
Nepal.  Hooker's record published in 1842 was probably an error.  Hooker's 
'Flora of British India' was a decent effort for its time but woefully 
out-of-date (from the 19th Century) nowadays.  It is littered with errors 
(not to mention many species not recognised at that time) - hardly 
surprising how little explored and studied India's flora was at that time.  
To rely on it too heavily is unwise.  I have seen recent pages posted of 
Crassulaceae from Chowdhery & Wadwha's 'Flora of Himachal Pradesh Analysis' 
...(1984) which uses the 19th Century nomenclature and taxonomic treatment 
of Hooker; it is in fact little more than a ABBREVIATED COPY OF CONTENT OF 
HOOKER'S WORK.  *I have no idea what 'Analysis' means in this respect.  I 
do not possess a copy of their 'flora'.  Perhaps a member can explain?  
>From the Crassulaceae pages, it seems one would be better of just referring 
to Hooker (his Flora is available on-line)  BUT recognising just how 
out-of-date it is..  I hope that Chowdhery & Wadwha gave due 
acknowledgement of the source of their incredibly brief descriptions - they 
certainly do not come from observations in Himachal Pradesh themselves nor 
fresh pressed specimens in Indian herbaria collected by Indian botanists 
since Independence - as one might reasonably image in a genuine 'Flora'.*

When making a suggestion for an identification, it really is important for 
eFI members to check whether the suggested species 'fits' in terms of prior 
records for a country/region and altitudinal range.  I am dismayed that few 
owners of 'Flowers of the Himalaya' EVER check this information.  Yes, 
significant extensions of geographic and altitudinal ranges do occur but 
not very often.  If e.g. what a reader of this 'guide' (it is NOT a 
'Flora') thinks they have 'matched' to a particular species does not 
'tally', in terms of where it grew then probably, they need to look more 
closely, as in all probability, what they think will be a misidentification.

Data-bases littered with misidentifications, whether they are 
printed check-lists or floras or on-line ones, create MAJOR problems.  The 
objective should always be to ENRICH not ENLARGE a data-base, whether 
on-line or a traditional herbarium.  What matters is not how large the 
number of specimens there are in a herbarium or entries in an on-line 
data-base but its QUALITY i.e. how many are RELIABLY IDENTIFIED.  Nowadays 
too many people uncritically accept what they read or see.  When one 
searches/'google's the name of a plant species DO NOT TOO READILY BELIEVE 
THE ACCOMPANYING IMAGES ARE OF THE *GENUINE* ARTICLE - I CAN ASSURE YOU 
THAT A SIGNIFICANT PROPORTION ARE NOT. 



On Thursday, August 7, 2014 at 9:08:24 AM UTC+1, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:

> Dear Mr. Garg,
>
> Date: 24 JULY, 2014
>
> Location: On the way to Kalinchok, Dolakha District, East Nepal  
>
> Altitude : 9000 ft.
>
> Thank you and best wishes!
>
> saroj
>

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[efloraofindia:267399] Re: RANUNCULACEAE Fortnight: Trollius acaulis from Uttarakhand_DSR_Jan 2015_04

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Sorry but Trollius acaulis is NOT a 'threatened' species in India.  The 
ONLY way to discover the status of any species is for EXTENSIVE
surveys of the typical habitat to have taken place, e.g. in Kashmir this is 
the alpine meadows @ 3000-3900m.  Probably similar ecological
preferences in Himachal Pradesh. I KNOW that such surveys in these states 
HAVE NOT taken place.

Such surveys require large numbers of skilled field botanists who can 
recognise Trollius acaulis at ALL stages of its development including
without flowers and at the fruiting stage.  The area where T.acaulis is 
found is VAST.  Very little field-work has taken place in said districts 
since
then 1930s.  Very few Indian botanists possess the necessary field skills 
to assess the abundance or not of this species.  

In such circumstances it is IMPOSSIBLE to assess its rarity or abundance.  
This, of course, applies to ALL species.  Nobody actually knows which 
species are
rare or not and under threat or not, OVERALL in the North-West Himalaya.

Dr R Stewart travelled in Kashmir and studied the herbarium specimens from 
this region.  I undertook FAR more extensive travels in such areas where 
T.acaulis is found in Kashmir in the 1980s and Himachal Pradesh in the 
1980s and into the 2000s than any Indian botanist.  I have checked the 
records of other Westerners who visited H.P. during this period.  Due to 
the difficulties in Indian-controlled Kashmir, I was not able to visit for 
a 20+ year period.I support Stewart's assessment that Trollius acaulis 
was and REMAINS common on alpine meadows in Kashmir.  All those interested 
in plants who came Kashmir prior to the start of the difficulties which 
impacted upon visits by foreigners, reported seeing T.acaulis.  I note that 
'Flowers of Gulmarg' (Naqshi, Singh & Koul) state that it was common on 
Khillenmarg  and that was despite being exposed to extreme grazing 
pressure.

Flora of Lahaul-Spiti records T.acaulis as 'Frequent' in glacial meadows on 
Rohtang Pass (which incidentally is NOT in Lahaul-Spiti i.e the 
south-facing side of the pass, which is in the upper Kulu Valley).  Within 
Lahaul-Spiti proper this species would be uncommon to rare, as is not 
suited to more arid conditions.  It is uncommon to rare in Ladakh.  I have 
not seen it growing there.  Dickore & Klimes record it from Ladakh but 
presumably, it is restricted to locations close on the border with Kashmir, 
which have a higher rainfall.

*There is nothing to suggest its typical habitat in Kashmir and H.P. has 
been unduly threatened in recent decades (such places have experienced 
grazing pressure for centuries) or even recent years - it is no doubt some 
years (if not decades) since this incorrect assessment was made.  In fact 
in areas close to the Indian border with Pakistan, it is likely that 
grazing **and other pressures may have even been REDUCED in habitats where 
T.acaulis is found*


*It is entirely possible that T.acaulis is an uncommon, even rare species 
in Uttarakhand.  I have only visited there once, never made it up to 
suitable*
*habitat for this species and have little information on the flora of the 
region, so am not in a position to judge. This species is listed in the 
'The Valley of Flowers' book, found in the Bhyundar Valley & Neighbourhood 
in 1937.  According to what references I have, T.acaulis extends from 
Pakistan to W.Nepal; in West Nepal the limited number of records give an 
altitudinal range of 3600-3700m.*

*It is NORMAL for species to have a geographic, climatic and altitudinal 
range.  Near the extremes of said ranges, a plant that may well be common 
or even **abundant within its typical range, becomes, uncommon, then rare; 
at a certain point it cannot survive and thus DIES OUT.  To judge an 
assessment on the occurrence of a species at the extreme of its range is 
meaningless over-all, as this is what occurs with a majority of ALL species 
in the world.*

*Unfortunately, the incorrect assessment of 'Endangered' is accepted 
nationally (and Internationally) and repeated, over again*

*The assessment is NOT based upon actual field experience in the NW 
Himalaya.*


On Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 7:35:46 AM UTC, D.S Rawat wrote:

> *Trollius acaulis* Lindl. is a rare species in Uttarakhand Himalaya. It 
> is also listed as threatened species in India.
>
> Dr D.S.Rawat
> Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & 
> Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA
>
>

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[efloraofindia:266618] Re: Urtica from Nilgiri Tamilnadu

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Surely Urtica hyperborea has never been recorded from Tamil Nadu before?

Sorry Santhan but this plant does not come close to Urtica hyperborea.

I am familiar with U.hyperborea from high-altitude passes in Ladakh - which 
is thousands
of kms to the north with a completely different climate.

According to 'Flowers of the Himalaya' this species is distributed from 
Pakistan to Bhutan also
Tibet and Mongolia on stony high altitude steppes @ 4100-5100m.

Stewart gives an altitudinal range for Hunza, Baltistan & Ladakh from 
3600-5200m.

It is also recorded from E.Tibet North of Sikkim on mountain slopes @ 5000m.

An occurrence, albeit in the hills near Ooty, would be extraordinary.

I have never been to Tamil Nadu and know nothing of its flora.

I note there are no images of U.hyperborea on eFI.

On Monday, March 27, 2017 at 2:46:15 PM UTC+1, Santhan P wrote:

> Urtica,  undershrub at 2000m altitude near Doddabetta Nilgiri Tamilnadu
>

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[efloraofindia:265555] Re: Bergenia ciliata AT MAR 2017/17

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

No, this is now considered to be Bergenia pacumbis - see me postings on 
this matter.

On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 4:37:31 PM UTC, Anil Thakur wrote:
>
> Bergenia ciliata 
> Hairy bergenia, Pashanbheda 
> Beautiful flowers that can be seen growing on rocks. 
> Shimla 
> Feb., 2017 
>
> -- 
> With best Regards, 
>
> Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur 
>

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[efloraofindia:265553] Re: SK366 06FEB-2017:ID

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Nothing like Arctium lappa or Cousinia thomsonii.

On Monday, February 6, 2017 at 4:19:33 PM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:
>
> Dear Members,
>
> Location: Anbu Khaireni, Gorkha, Nepal
> Altitude: 1100 ft.
> Date: 5 February  2017
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Saroj Kasaju
>

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[efloraofindia:265438] Re: TQ: Saxifraga spp from Paddar Valley, J

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I think this is correct - though don't have much to go on.  Interestingly, 
'Flowers of the Himalaya' give its geographic distribution from Uttarakhand 
to SW China, on stony slopes & in screes @ 4300-5200m.   Pity no altitude 
was given when Tabish posted this.

It has been seen above the Rohtang Pass in H.P. (which thus extended its 
range - this was in the 1980s).  The record from Paddar Valley makes it the 
most North-Westerly to-date.  Stewart did not know it from Pakistan or 
Kashmir, whilst Saxifragaceae (Flora of Pakistan) has no records.  Perhaps 
someone will come across it in the main Kashmir Valley one day?

Just goes to show what can be located if higher elevations are visited in 
the Indian Himalaya.

See: 
http://elmer.rbge.org.uk/bgbase/vherb/bgbasevherb.php?cfg=bgbase/vherb/zoom.cfg=E00438854.zip=9
  
and 
http://elmer.rbge.org.uk/bgbase/vherb/bgbasevherb.php?cfg=bgbase/vherb/zoom.cfg=E00438855.zip=3
  
for pressed specimens at Edinburgh Botanic Garden which can been zoomed 
into.

On Monday, September 17, 2012 at 11:06:03 AM UTC+1, Tabish wrote:

> Saxifraga species from Paddar Valley, Jammu and Kashmir.
> Found flowering in early August.
> A mat-forming plant as obvious from the picture.
> Please identify. Especially seeking Gurcharan ji's opinion.
> (Pictures not taken by me)
>   Best wishes
>   - Tabish
>

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[efloraofindia:265432] Re: An unidentified Saxifraga from Uttarakhand

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I cannot but wonder about this?   PLEASE take more photos with close-ups of 
floral parts and foliage, if you get the opportunity of re-visiting the 
location.  It seems S.lilacina is an un-resolved name according to 'The 
Plant List'.

It certainly does NOT match the description of this species in 
'Saxifragaceae' (Flora of Pakistan, 1977) - which was based upon specimens 
from Hazara, Poonch & Kashmir.  The TYPE specimen (at Kew) was collected by 
Duthie in Kaghan Valley in 1899.  Described as very small in stature, 
greyish-green in colour with dark green leaf tips, bearing some resemblance 
to Saxifraga ramulosa.  Flower colour: pink to purple.  



On Friday, April 5, 2013 at 12:25:56 PM UTC+1, D.S Rawat wrote:

> This cushion forming Saxifraga was shot at an altitude of 2600m which is 
> quite unusual for cushion forming Saxifrags in this part of the Himalaya 
> where alpine zones (homeland of Saxifrags) lies only above 3600-3800m. It 
> belong to *Saxifraga sect. Porphyrion* (Kabschia section) in which leaves 
> have lime pits. Flowers are solitary on small shoots (1-1.5cm) and 1-1.2cm 
> across. Seems closer to *S.ludlowii* (species not found in India and 
> Nepal) and unresolved species described by J.F.Duthie *S.lilacina*. 
> However, identity is yet to be resolved. 
>
> Pink Saxifrags are much in requirements for breeding ornamental varieties.
>
> Can anyone help please?
>
> DSRawat Pantnagar
>

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[efloraofindia:265426] Re: Saxifraga andersonii ???

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I am pleased to have another person contributing about identification of 
Himalayan plants but do not have sufficient
knowledge of the Saxifraga genus in Nepal to confirm Tim's name.  It may 
well be correct, just that I am not in a position to agree or not.  Always 
best to express a degree of caution when one is uncertain, as far as plant 
identification is concerned - which applies to me in this case.

I am not a Saxifraga specialist but have started to taking an interest in 
the species of this genus found in the NW Himalaya (by this I primarily 
mean those recorded from Kashmir & Himachal Pradesh).   The only 'Kabschia' 
(those with lime-encrusted leaves) species known from the NW of the 
Himalaya is S.pulvinaria - according to the records I currently have.

My understanding is that what was known as the 'Kabschia' Saxifrages 
present challenges identification-wise.  I was sent, some 20 years ago, 
some notes of Saxifrages observed at high-altitudes in the Mustang district 
of Nepal, including hybrids.  I shall look these out and summarise the 
findings at some point - as they will help improve our understanding.

According to 'Flowers of the Himalaya', Saxifraga andersonii is common in 
the drier areas of W.Nepal, recorded from W.Nepal to SE Tibet on stony 
slopes & amongst rocks @ 3600-5200m.  This is what I assumed I saw below 
the Dhaulagiri ice-falls during my first visit to Nepal in 1990.   *But one 
needs to recognise that 'Flowers of the Himalaya' only covers a fraction of 
the total flora of the Himalaya with space permitting only very brief, 
summarised descriptions, which are of limited value.*

'Flowers of the Himalaya' describes S.poluninana* as rather lax, 
mat-forming with solitary short-stalked white flowers often pink-flushed in 
the sun, on rocks in W & C. Nepal @ 3300-3500. Its inclusion by Polunin & 
Stainton implies it should be quite common at such elevations in these 
habitats in Central & W.Nepal. Thus the record from Dhumba Lake is 
significantly lower than previously known. *Presumably this was named in 
honour of Oleg Polunin, co-author of 'Flowers of the Himalaya'.  The TYPE 
specimen was collected during the 1952 Polunin, Sykes & Williams Expedition 
to Nepal.

I certainly feel 'Kabschias' (in addition to S.pulvinaria) should be looked 
out for in Uttarakhand.  Perhaps some have already been recorded there in 
recent decades?

I shall be posting a couple of images of what was labelled as Saxifraga 
poluniniana at a specialist horticultural society show in the UK some 30 
years ago - whether it really was this species, is quite another matter.  
Many crosses have been made amongst 'Kabschia' Saxifrages, making it very 
difficult to differentiate between them in cultivation.

As for the suggestion of S.hypostoma, according to 'Enumeration of the 
Flowering Plants of Nepal' this had only been recorded between 4300-5200m 
(West & Central Nepal).  Perhaps more recent records exist beyond this 
altitudinal range.



On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 7:48:20 PM UTC+1, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:

> Dear Mr. Garg,
>
> Enclosing some pictures for ID verification please.
>
> Pictures were shot at Dhumba Lake Jomsom Nepal at 8900 ft on 22 April 2013
>
> Thank you.
>
> Saroj Kasaju
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[efloraofindia:265404] Re: Viscum album AT MAR 2017/04

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Nice shots.  'Mistletoe' (Viscum album) was transferred from the 
Loranthaceae family to Santalaceae.  In 'Flora of the British Isles' (1962) 
the species was recorded from Southern Scandinavia southwards to N.Africa 
and east to Central Asia and Japan.  Given such a widespread distribution, 
I wonder if this taxon has been sub-divided since then?

It is quite common on a variety of deciduous tree species near where I 
live.  I observe quite a number of examples at this time of year (i.e. when 
there are no leaves on the trees) during bus journeys from my village to 
the train station I use to travel around the country.

I shall post some images from the UK and comment on its distribution in the 
Himalaya and that of Viscum cruciatum (recorded from lower elevations), on 
another occasion.

It was a sacred plant of the Druids during pre-Christian times, who cut it 
with a golden sickle.  Associated with fertility, from which developed the 
British custom of kissing under it.

It was a local, rather rare plant in Buckinghamshire, UK a century ago but 
is certainly not anymore (at least locally).

On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 4:06:28 PM UTC, Anil Thakur wrote:

> Viscum album 
> Shimla 
> February 2017 
> Stem parasite 
>
> -- 
> With best Regards, 
>
> Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur 
>

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[efloraofindia:264951] Re: Ranunculaceae Fortnight: Aquilegia nivalis

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I think this probably is A.nivalis but the single image, out-of-focus, of a 
flower not fully open, makes it difficult to
understand the species well.

Once again, no location, actual elevation nor specific habitat information 
is provided.

I would not describe A.nivalis as a 'high-altitude' species nor one found 
at 'high-altitudes'.  Species found at say 4500m+
can be considered "high altitude" species.

On Saturday, January 17, 2015 at 6:15:32 AM UTC, ANZAR KHUROO wrote:

>
> Aquilegia nivalis from Kashmir... a high-altitude plant mostly in rocky 
> habitat.
> -- 
> **
> Regards
>  
> *Anzar A Khuroo *
> *(NET, SET, M Phil, Ph D)*
>
>
> *Senior Assistant Professor*
> *Centre for Biodiversity and Taxonomy (CBT)Department of Botany, *
>
> *University of KashmirSrinagar - 190 006, Jammu and Kashmir, India*
>  
> E-mail: anz...@gmail.com  ; anza...@kashmiruniversity.net 
> 
> Cell phone: *+91- 962206 (within Kashmir)*; *+91-8105050865 (outside 
> Kashmir)*
>
>
> *Citations:*
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Anzar_Khuroo/publications
> *http://www.scopus.com/authid/detail.url?authorId=15829758300 
> *
> *http://scholar.google.co.in/citations?user=zpMP4mkJ=en 
> *
>
>

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[efloraofindia:264729] Re: Scrophulariaceae Fortnight: Wulfeniopsis amherstiana from Chakrata-NS 54

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Nice shots.  Correctly identified.   I was familiar with this 25 years ago 
in forest above Manali, H.P. - then Wulfenia amherstiana.

On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 at 4:43:52 PM UTC+1, Nidhan Singh wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> This lithophyte was shot from Chakrata area this week..
> I hope this should be *Wulfeniosis amherstiana (Benth.) D.Y. Hong..*...please 
> validate
> Now placed in Plantaginaceae
>
> -- 
> Regards,
>
> Dr. Nidhan Singh
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Botany
> I.B. (PG) College
> Panipat-132103 Haryana
> Ph.: 09416371227
>

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[efloraofindia:264728] Re: 16102011GS3 small herb from Chakrata Budher caves road for ID

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

  Correctly identified - at early fruiting stage. I was familiar with this 
25 years ago in forest above Manali, H.P. - then Wulfenia amherstiana.

On Sunday, October 16, 2011 at 5:53:47 AM UTC+1, Gurcharan Singh wrote:
>
> Herb growing below rocks photographed from Chakrata Budher caves road on 
> September 18
>
> Perennial (?) herb with basal rosette of leaves up to 15 cm long, 
> oblanceolate to obovate (younger), gradually narrowed to almost winged 
> petiole nearly 1/4 t0 1/6 the length of blade, margin shallowly irregularly 
> cut. inflorescence scapigerous bearing a terminal spike of distant flowers 
> nearly white, about 4-7 mm long, calyx persistent.
>
> Help in ID requested 
>
> -- 
> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> Retired  Associate Professor
> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
> Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 
>
>

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[efloraofindia:264726] Re: Upper Chamba id.. al210811

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Nice shots.  Correctly identified.  I was familiar with this 25 years ago 
in forest above Manali, H.P. - then Wulfenia amherstiana.

On Sunday, August 21, 2011 at 5:01:54 PM UTC+1, Alok Mahendroo wrote:
>
> Dear friends,
> Passing through the scenic mountains, I regretted the lack of time I had
> on this track.. so many flowers and with the bad weather chasing us..
> could only manage to grab some shots of each flower before hurrying
> forward
>
> Location Chamba
> Altitude 3600 mts
> Habit herb
> Habitat wild
> Plant height 10 inches
>
> regards
> Alok
> -- 
> Himalayan Village Education Trust
> Village Khudgot,
> P.O. Dalhousie
> District Chamba
> H.P. 176304, India
>
> www.hivetrust.wordpress.com
> www.forwildlife.wordpress.com
>
> http://mushroomobserver.org/observer/observations_by_user?_js=on&_new=true=2186
>
>

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[efloraofindia:264697] Re: Arenaria thangoensis (Caryophyllaceae) rediscovered: June 2016_DSR_1/1

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Naturally read this with interest.  Checked with Flora of Bhutan Vol 1 Part 
2 which covers Caryophyllaceae.

The authors have A.thangoensis W.W.Smith (and A.pharensis McNeil ) 
only as a synonym of Arenaria
littledalei Hemsley.   What are your thoughts about this?  This account for 
Caryophyllaceae of the region (incl. Sikkim and Chumbi)
was published back in 1984.

This taxon was recorded from Sikkim (Chugya, Naku Chu and Thango) plus 
Chumbi (Phari plain) @ 4360-4570.

I see that 'The Plant List' accept A.littledalei and A.thangoensis as 
separate species.

There are specimens of A.littledalei (from Central Tibet and Sikkim) in the 
Kew herbarium, see: 
http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000723882;  and 
http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000723881

Please explain how these differ from A.thangoensis?

On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 5:29:15 PM UTC+1, D.S Rawat wrote:

> World environment day is appropriate time to inform our eFI family that in 
> last year’s botanical exploration we managed to rediscover a threatened 
> endemic species from a remote Himalayan locale after nearly 106 years.
>
> *Arenaria thangoensis* W.W.Sm. (Caryophyllaceae) is a tiny plant and this 
> species was described in 1911 from Tangu (Thangu) area of Sikkim in the 
> Eastern Himalaya. This species was never recollected after type collection 
> either from type locality or anywhere in the Himalaya or Tibet and, 
> therefore, known by the type collection only (Srivastava et al. 2015 
> ). 
> During a floristic exploration in the Kuari Pass alpine zone (3600-3700m 
> above sea level, Chamoli district, Uttarakhand), which happens to be the 
> type locality of ‘Endangered and endemic’ *Arenaria curvifolia* Majumdar, 
> my student Satish collected *Arenaria thangoensis.* This collection is a 
> rediscovery of this threatened species after 106 years and demonstrates 
> that it is an extant (living) species and thriving well in the area. 
> Rediscovery from nearly 950 km (aerial distance) away from its originally 
> known population makes it more interesting.
>
> Image of the species attached here is a first ever photo of live specimens 
> of this species in the world.
>
> Rediscovering a species is a joy for me and sharing it with ardent nature 
> lovers of eFI fraternity increases it manifolds. 
> This rediscovery is yet not published, though in communication with a 
> journal.
>
> Dr D.S.Rawat
> Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & 
> Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA
> *eflorapantnagar*  
> displaying wild flora of Pantnagar
>

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[efloraofindia:264669] Re: Rosaceae Fortnight- Cotoneaster microphyllus from Himachal-GSG24/Sept 2015

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Jeanette Fryer has named this as Cotoneaster marginatus Lindley ex Loudon 
Series Microphylii NOT C.microphyllus - which as other posts have indicated 
is, strictly speaking, only recorded from Nepal.

C.marginatus has been recorded from H.P., Uttarakhand and Nepal.  

On Saturday, September 12, 2015 at 5:06:01 AM UTC+1, gurinder goraya wrote:

> Dears,
>
> *Cotoneaster microphyllus*.
>
>   
>  
>  
>   
>  
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Dr. G S Goraya, IFS
> Deputy Director General (Research),
> Indian Council of Forestry Research & Education,
> New Forest P.O., Dehradun - 248006.
> (Uttarakhand, India) 
> Tel. (+91-941-802-5036)
>

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[efloraofindia:264664] Re: Cotoneaster microphyllus

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Confirmed as Cotoneaster microphyllus Wallich ex Lindley.  

According to Fryer & Hylmo, C.microphyllus sensu stricto (in its strictest 
sense) has only been recorded from Nepal (though it would come as no 
surprise if it is not also present in Uttarakhand).

Klotz (1963) included within C.microphyllus a number of taxa from a wide 
area ranging from the NW Himalaya, Uttarakhand (Kumaon) through to eastern 
Tibet and provinces of Yunnan and Sichuan in China.

On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 at 1:48:05 PM UTC+1, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:

> Dear Mr. Garg,
>
> Sharing some pics of C. microphyllus shit on 8 July 2016 at Nagarkot Nepal 
> at 7000 ft .
>
> Thank you.
>
> Saroj Kasaju
>

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[efloraofindia:264652] Re: Rosaceae Fortnight 1-14 Sep.2015: Cotoneaster acuminatus from Uttarakhand_DSR_Sep_3/3

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I am pleased to report that Jeanette Fryer has confirmed that this is 
Cotoneaster acuminatus Lindley.

Recorded from Nepal, Sikkim and Ladakh (this seems a surprising record).  
Brandis stated that C.acuminatus often occurred as understorey in oak 
forests of Western Himalaya.

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 8:52:25 AM UTC+1, D.S Rawat wrote:

> *Cotoneaster acuminatus* Wall. ex Lindley is a tall shrub or small tree 
> in temperate and subalpine zones of Uttarakhand.
>
> Photographed in Bhunjapani area (3100m), Munsyari (Pithoragarh) in July 
> 2015.
>
> Dr D.S.Rawat
> Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & 
> Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA
>
>

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Re: [efloraofindia:264651] Daphne retusa

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

The out-of-focus image does not help but Jeanette Fryer considers this is 
likely to be Cotoneaster horizontalis Decaisne - which
is NOT a native of the Himalaya.  No indication was given that this was a 
cultivated specimen - which it must be.  It really is
important to indicate whether a plant is wild, naturalised or cultivated.  
If only a single image is posted, makes it hard to work
things out.

C.horizontalis is a native of Sichuan & Gansu, China.

In cultivation it was originally distributed from shrubs growing in the 
garden of the National Museum of Natural History in Paris from seed 
received from Missionary Armand David around 1870.  The plant is incredibly 
tough, much used for covering walls.  The leafless branches in winter are 
attractive with their herringbone habit.

As for the mistaken identification of Daphne retusa, this probably comes 
from mis-matching with a photo in 'Flowers of the Himalaya' - though had 
the description been read: leaves - small shiny green, broadly 
oblanceolate, margins inrolled, clustered towards ends of branches, it 
would have been clear the specimen photographed was not this.  Furthermore, 
its habitat of alpine shrubberies & open slopes @ 3300-3700m does not tally 
with Darjeeling.

Please may I request that the descriptions of species must be read in 
'Flowers of the Himalaya' as matching quickly with the images (
which should be examined carefully) before deciding upon an 
identification.  In addition, it must always be remembered that 'Flowers of 
the Himalaya' has illustrations (whether photos or line drawings) of only a 
fraction of the total flora.

On Tuesday, April 20, 2010 at 6:30:26 AM UTC+1, tanaybose15 wrote:

>
> *Daphne* *retusa* Hemsl from the family Thymelaeaceae ... photographed in 
> Dargeeling 2008.
> Tanay
> -- 
> Tanay Bose
> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi)
> 9830439691(Mobile)
> 9674221362 (Mobile)
>
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[efloraofindia:264649] Re: Rosaceae Fortnight- Cotoneaster bacillaris from Himachal-GSG22/Sept 2015

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Jeanette Fryer comments that this, "could be" Cotoneaster bacillaris.

On Saturday, September 12, 2015 at 5:01:10 AM UTC+1, gurinder goraya wrote:
>
> Dears,
>
> *Cotoneaster bacillaris*. Locally called 'Reunsh', its branches are 
> highly preferred as walking sticks.  
>
>
>   
>  
>
>
>   
>  
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Dr. G S Goraya, IFS
> Deputy Director General (Research),
> Indian Council of Forestry Research & Education,
> New Forest P.O., Dehradun - 248006.
> (Uttarakhand, India) 
> Tel. (+91-941-802-5036)
>

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[efloraofindia:264648] Re: VoF Week: 19092012 BS 13 Tree sp-3 for id from the way to Ghangriya

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Jeanette Fryer has said this is NOT Cotoneaster affinis but is unsure what 
it is.

On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 at 1:47:26 PM UTC+1, Balkar wrote:
>
> Dear All
> Tree sp-3 for id from the way to Ghangriya
> On this also only fruits were seen
> Thanks
>
> -- 
> Regards
>
> Dr Balkar Singh
> Head, Deptt. of Botany and Biotechnology
> Arya P G College, Panipat
> Haryana-132103
> 09416262964
>

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[efloraofindia:264646] Re: Rosaceae Fortnight 1-14 Sep.2015: Cotoneaster bacillaris from Uttarakhand_DSR_Sep_5/5

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Jeanette Fryer has named this as Cotoneaster cf. wattii G.Klotz - which is 
NEW to eFI.

It belongs to the Bacillares Series but is not C.bacillaris.  Previously 
only recorded from H.P., so this represents an extension to its known range 
but no doubt it has been in Uttarakhand all along.  I located a specimen of 
what is probably this at the bottom of the Rohtang Pass.

The TYPE specimen was collected in forest near Narkanda by Watt - holotype 
at Dehra Dun.



On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 11:18:01 AM UTC+1, D.S Rawat wrote:

> *Cotoneaster bacillaris* Wall. ex Lindl. photographed in Upper Nandakini 
> Valley, Chamoli district at an altitude of 2500m.
>
> DSRawat Pantnagar
>
> Dr D.S.Rawat
> Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & 
> Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA
>
>

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[efloraofindia:264645] Re: Is it Symplocos ??

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Jeanette Fryer has confirmed that this is NOT a Cotoneaster.

On Monday, March 17, 2014 at 11:01:55 AM UTC, M Sawmliana wrote:
>
> *M*-007. *Date* : 21-01-2012. *Habitat* : Wild. *Habit* : Tree. *Altitude* 
> : ca. 1,300 m.
>

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[efloraofindia:264644] Re: Cotoneaster pannosus from Darjeeling:: NS Sept 08

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Jeanette Fryer considers this name is OK.  As Surajit (see below) correctly 
points out, this is an introduced species.
C.pannosus was first introduced into France and then distributed from Paris 
to other botanic gardens incl. Kew back in 1892.
It is common in cultivation in warm temperate zones of both northern & 
southern hemispheres.  It has escaped and naturalised in the US,
where it can be found far from habitation.  It is cultivated in Mexico, 
Chile, Argentina, South Africa and New Zealand.

Native to Yunnan and possibly Tibet.

On Thursday, September 11, 2014 at 4:04:46 PM UTC+1, Nidhan Singh wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Please find pics of a shrub *Cotoneaster pannosus* recorded from LBG, 
> Darjeeling..
> I hope the id is right...
>
> -- 
> Regards,
>
> Dr. Nidhan Singh
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Botany
> I.B. (PG) College
> Panipat-132103 Haryana
> Ph.: 09416371227
>

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[efloraofindia:264643] Re: Rosaceae Fortnight- Cotoneaster acuminatus from Himachal-GSG21/Sept 2015

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Jeanette Fryer has DETERMINED this as Cotoneaster nepalensis Andre - this 
is the same Series ACUMINATI as C.acuminatus but a separate species - the 
two taxa have been mixed-up in the past.

Fryer states in her book on Cotoneasters under C.acuminatus that several 
descriptions of C.acuminatus are unfortunately based on C.nepalensis.  The 
two species can be separated on the basis that C.nepalensis has fertile 
shoots 15-35mm with 2-8 flowers, whereas those of C.acuminatus are mostly 
10-20 mm, with single or paired flowers.  According to the Cotoneaster book 
C.acuminatus is recorded from Nepal, Sikkim & Ladakh possible also 
Pakistan.  I cannot but wonder about Sikkim and Ladakh as a distribution?

The above image - there is only a single image with flowers not fully 
opened, no shots of undersides of leaves nor sterile shoots which makes it 
harder to reliably name - but clearly with more than 2 flowers.

Cotoneaster nepalensis is recorded from H.P. and Uttaranachal.

Please note that there is also C.parkeri, which is closely related to 
C.acuminatus.

On Saturday, September 12, 2015 at 4:55:09 AM UTC+1, gurinder goraya wrote:

> Dears,
>
> *Cotoneaster acuminatus*. Photographed from near Narkanda.
>
>
>   
>  
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Dr. G S Goraya, IFS
> Deputy Director General (Research),
> Indian Council of Forestry Research & Education,
> New Forest P.O., Dehradun - 248006.
> (Uttarakhand, India) 
> Tel. (+91-941-802-5036)
>

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[efloraofindia:264594] Re: VoF Week :: TG :: Unid shrub from VoF

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Cotoneaster garwhalensis is NEW to eFI.

On Sunday, August 26, 2012 at 5:11:28 PM UTC+1, Thingnam Girija wrote:
>
> A small shrub, less than knee high, found in the Valley of Flowers, in 
> June.
> Please identify
> Girija
>

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[efloraofindia:264593] Re: VoF Week :: TG :: Unid shrub from VoF

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Jeanette Fryer has determined this as Cotoneaster garwhalensis G.Klotz not 
C.adpressus Boiss which according to Fryer & Hylmo is
only found in Sichuan & Yunnan.  Both species belong to the Adpressi Series.

C.garwhalensis is recorded from H.P.,Uttarakhand and Nepal.  A useful 
little scrambling, ground-covering shrub with large, attractive flowers and 
excellent autumn colour.  Corolla wide open, petals erect to 
semi-spreading, rich pink with dark red base and pink border.
The TYPE specimen was collected in Garwhal by Duthie (holotype at Kew; 
isotype at Dehra Dun).

On Sunday, August 26, 2012 at 5:11:28 PM UTC+1, Thingnam Girija wrote:

> A small shrub, less than knee high, found in the Valley of Flowers, in 
> June.
> Please identify
> Girija
>

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[efloraofindia:264567] Re: Photographing Cotoneasters when in fruit: how it should be done

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

This Cotoneaster, being a naturalised cultivar, has been determined by 
Jeanette Fryer from these images.

It is C.franchetii Bois  Series FRANCHETIOIDES - which represents a NEW 
RECORD of an Alien plant for the vice-county of Buckinghamshire.  According 
to 'Alien Plants of the British Isles (Clement & Foster, 1994) Franchet's 
Cotoneaster has been confused with C.dielsianus and C.sternianus. 
Established garden escape mainly in S.England and Ireland including on an 
open limestone rock-face near Killarney.  

A native of Yunnan.  It has been common in cultivation since early 1900 in 
areas of Europe where the winters are not too cold (which applies to where 
I live) and on the west coast of North America.  This shub is extremely 
attractive in autumn when weighed down with orange-red, pear-shaped fruit 
which contrast well with the silvery-gray foliage.  It is wind tolerant and 
good for planting in coastal regions.  

Interestingly, I came across a different Cotoneaster, also naturalised, 
perhaps some 1.5km away, which proved to be C.sternianus  Series 
STERNIANUS, which C.franchetii has been confused

On Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 3:00:52 AM UTC, JM Garg wrote:

> Thanks, Chadwell ji
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: "C CHADWELL" 
> Date: 17 Nov 2016 6:55 am
> Subject: Photographing Cotoneasters when in fruit: how it should be done
> To: "J.M. Garg" 
> Cc: 
>
> Have decided to share with group members how best to go about naming a 
> Cotoneaster from photographs rather
> than taking pressed specimens, the traditional way of naming plants (which 
> would apply to most genera at the fruiting stage, 
> though for different genera particular characteristics many be especially 
> important).  Next summer I shall take a  set of photos
> of this specimen in flower. I trust you will see how by taking extra 
> photos and selecting the best  to post provides so much more information, 
> aiding the identification process.  One does not need to take as many as I 
> did on this occasion; I typically take 15-30 for plants in flower or fruit 
> if it is a plant I am uncertain about or is photogenic.  *As I inspect 
> postings of different genera on efI I shall recommend which parts/*
> *characteristics need special attention for each of the more difficult 
> genera to identify.*
>
> I recently photographed a naturalised Cotoneaster (presumably spread by a 
> bird from a garden plant) in my local
> village in the UK. Neglected to carry a ruler with me as I recommended.
>
> I originally took 75 photos (being digital these cost nothing and did not 
> take me long) which after I quickly checked through,
> 20 were deleted due to not being fully in focus or not exposed well etc.  
> From the remainder, 12
> have been chosen to post to show the various features of the plant incl. 
> the number of nutlets in the fruits.
>
> See attached images. 
>
> By taking more photos (rather than just I or 2), looking at them closely 
> on a computer screen and selecting the best to show various characteristics 
> you will familiarise yourself better with each species in the wild and help 
> you notice any differences with similar specimens to
> help decide on whether it is worth photographing in expectation that it 
> might prove to be a different species of the genus.  It will
> also enable you to note where a particular species grows and how common or 
> uncommon it is.  This is useful information.
>
> *I imagine some reading these notes may be shocked by the number of photos 
> taken (particular if they have not embraced*
> *digital photography yet) and imagine it to be too time-consuming but once 
> you get into the routine (and habit) of taking many*
> *photos and editing/selecting on a computer screen, you speed up.   But do 
> need to be methodical and organised.*
>
>
> Best Wishes,
>
>
> Chris Chadwell
>
>
> 81 Parlaunt Road 
> SLOUGH
> SL3 8BE
> UK
>
> www.shpa.org.uk
>
>
>
>
>

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[efloraofindia:264527] Re: Cotoneaster sp. AT NOV 2016/05

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

According to Jeanette Fryer this is part of the FRIGIDI Section.  It is 
*C.hedegaardii 
J.Fryer & B.Hylmo sp. nov which is new to eFI.*

Previously only known to the authors from Nepal, so an extension of its 
range.  Given how poorly known Cotoneaster is in the Himalaya, I expect 
there will be numerous changes to distributions in the coming years.   The 
fruits are thought to be typically crimson to maroon - though a pale yellow 
form is already known in Nepal.


On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 7:15:30 PM UTC, Anil Thakur wrote:

> Cotoneaster sp. 
> Shimla (H.P) 
> Altitude: approx. 2200m 
> June 2013 
> Large shrub 
>
> -- 
> With best Regards, 
>
> Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur 
>

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[efloraofindia:264526] Re: Cotoneaster bacillaris AT NOV 2016/04

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I am pleased to report that Jeanette Fryer confirms this is C.bacillaris 
Wallich ex Lindley Series Bacillares.

Recorded by Fryer & Hylmo only from Uttarakhand & Nepal, so this extends 
its range.  There has been much confusion between this and C.affinis 
Lindley.

According to Stewart this complex (he listed C.affinis var. bacillaris) 
included two taxa which were Pakistan and Kashmir's largest and commonest 
Cotoneasters being erect shrubs and small trees called 'luni' or 'rauns'.  
The stems made good walking sticks.  The white flowers haave corollas open 
wide, the ripe fruits bluish black with glaucous bloom.  He considered them 
exceedingly variable and those who like to split could make many taxa from 
the complex.

Returning to Fryer & Hylmo, they say that C.bacillaris is often greater in 
width than height.  It is handsome in autumn when bearing an abundance of 
black fruit which, being produced in long sprays, are apparently useful in 
floral arrangements.

Cotoneaster bacillaris 
> Shimla  H.P. 
> Altitude: Approx. 2000m 
> April 2015 
>
>
> -- 
> With best Regards, 
>
> Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur 
>

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[efloraofindia:264525] Re: Cotoneaster microphyllus 2 AT NOV 2016/02

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Let me begin with images 4 & 5.   According to Jeanette Fryer whilst this 
is part of the MICROPHYLLI Section, it is NOT Cotoneaster microphyllus.  It 
is *C.brandisii G.Klotz which is new to eFI.*

This species has been recorded from H.P., Uttarakhand and Kashmir.  It does 
not appear to be common, although is seen in cultivation mistakenly 
labelled as C.marginatus or C.integrifolius.  It was also collected in the 
Nilgiri Hills of Tamil Nadu.


On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 6:38:19 PM UTC, Anil Thakur wrote:

> Cotoneaster microphyllus 
> Churdhar (The Chor), Sirmaur  H.P. 
> Altitude: Approx. 2800m 
> 26 May 2015 
> These plants were more upright and woody. 
>
> I am posting different populations separately. 
>
> -- 
> With best Regards, 
>
> Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur 
>

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[efloraofindia:264524] Re: Cotoneaster microphyllus 3 AT NOV 2016/03

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

It was good indeed that you posted different 'populations' separately as 
this is a different species as well. 

According to Jeanette Fryer whilst this is part of the MICROPHYLLI Section, 
it is NOT Cotoneaster microphyllus.  It is *C.marginatus Lindley ex 
Loudon which is also new to eFI.*

This species has been recorded from H.P., Uttarakhand and Nepal.  According 
to Fryer & Hylmo, it was introduced into cultivation in 1838.  Often 
hybridizing with other diploid species, it can produce very variable off 
spring, some of which have previously been attributed to other species.  It 
caused much confusion before its diploid nature was realised. C.marginatus 
is vigorous growing, often forming a dense mass of branches which project 
from the shrub in all directions.  The abundant fruit are slow-ripening and 
hence are not taken by birds until well into winter.

On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 6:44:24 PM UTC, Anil Thakur wrote:

> Cotoneaster microphyllus 
> Taradevi Temple, Shimla,  H.P. 
> Altitude: Approx. 2250m 
> April 2015 
>
>
> I am posting different populations separately. 
> -- 
> With best Regards, 
>
> Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur 
>

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[efloraofindia:264523] Re: Cotoneaster microphyllus 1 AT NOV 2016/01

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

According to Jeanette Fryer whilst this is part of the MICROPHYLLI Section, 
it is NOT Cotoneaster microphyllus.  It is *C.thymifolius Baker which is 
new to eFI.*

This species has been recorded from H.P. and Nepal.  It is according to 
Fryer & Hylmo, a bit of a puzzle, previously thought to be a form of 
C.integrifolius, this appears more closely related to C.congestus.  More 
study is needed into the relationship between these two diploid species.

This lovely miniature is a real little treasure, very pretty at all times - 
in leaf, covered with its pinkish white flowers or when its bead-like fruit 
are sprinkled over its branches.

On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 6:29:33 PM UTC, Anil Thakur wrote:

> Cotoneaster microphyllus 
> Theog (30km from Shimla) H.P. 
> Altitude: Approx. 2000m 
> 21 October 2016 
> These plants were low lying and woody. 
>
> I am posting different populations separately. 
>
> -- 
> With best Regards, 
>
> Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur 
>

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[efloraofindia:264284] Re: Campanulaceae & Gentianaceae Week: Campanulaceae

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

This appears to be correctly identified.  Please provide close-ups next 
time incl. shots showing the interior of the flowers.

On Sunday, July 8, 2012 at 8:34:37 AM UTC+1, Suresh Rana wrote:
>
> Campanulaceae & Gentianaceae Week: Campanulaceae 
>
> Bot. name: *Codonopsis ovata*
> Location: Paddar valley J
> Altitude: 3800 meters asl
> Date: 2nd August 2011
>
> -- 
> Warm regards
> Suresh Rana
>
>

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[efloraofindia:264283] Re: Scrophulariaceae Fortnight: Picrorhiza kurrooa from Chakrata-NS 33

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Correctly identified.

On Wednesday, August 7, 2013 at 1:20:51 AM UTC+1, Nidhan Singh wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> This one was shot from Herbal Nursery Deoban, Chakrata..*Picrorhiza 
> kurrooa Royle ex Benth. *a medicinal plant of family Plantaginaceae..hope 
> this is rightly identified..
>
> -- 
> Regards,
>
> Dr. Nidhan Singh
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Botany
> I.B. (PG) College
> Panipat-132103 Haryana
> Ph.: 09416371227
>

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[efloraofindia:264282] Re: Flora of Chakrata: Picrorhiza kurroa from Deovan Herbal garden Chakrata

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Correctly identified.   Its ease of cultivation in a number of botanic 
gardens in the Indian Himalaya suggest this is an adaptable species.
I have also seen it growing in a botanic garden in Norway.

On Sunday, 25 September 2011 03:44:25 UTC+1, Balkar wrote:

> Dear All
> Picrorhiza kurroa from Deovan Herbal garden Chakrata
> An important Medicinal Plant called as Kutki
>
>
> -- 
> Regards
>
> Dr Balkar Singh
> Head, Deptt. of Botany and Biotechnology
> Arya P G College, Panipat
> Haryana-132103
> 09416262964
>

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[efloraofindia:264281] Re: Plant ID_kashmir

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I am in agreement that this must surely be Picrorhiza kurrooa rather than 
what is now Neopicrorhiza scrophularifolia.  Having seen the images from
Tawang on eFI, I wholeheartedly endorse the separation of the two taxa into 
different genera.

I have seen P.kurrooa in Kashmir above Kolahoi glacier (somewhere I doubt 
if any Indian botanist has explored in) and Gadar.  Roy Lancaster recorded
this plant from Aphawat, Lashpatri and Vishensar during a botanical tour in 
Kashmir.  I have seen it in the Upper Kulu Valley.  

Stewart recorded it as common on alpine meadows in Kashmir @ 3000-4300m.  

*I disagree with this plant being included under Appendix II of CITES!  I 
shall comment further when I post a couple of images of this being grown in 
the Nehru Botanical Garden, Kashmir.*

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 6:52:39 PM UTC+1, ANZAR KHUROO wrote:

> Dear all
>
> Please see the attached photograph and kindly help in its ID.
> Taken from Nichnai (alpine), Sonamarg in Kashmir.
> My guess id Scrophulariaceae/Plantiginaceae
>
> -- 
> **
> Regards
>  
> *Anzar A Khuroo *
> *(NET, SET, M Phil, Ph D)*
>
>
> *Senior Assistant Professor*
> *Centre for Biodiversity and Taxonomy (CBT)Department of Botany, *
>
> *University of KashmirSrinagar - 190 006, Jammu and Kashmir, India*
>  
> E-mail: anz...@gmail.com  ; anza...@kashmiruniversity.net 
> 
> Cell phone: *+91- 962206 (within Kashmir)*; *+91-8105050865 (outside 
> Kashmir)*
>
>
> *Citations:*
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Anzar_Khuroo/publications
> *http://www.scopus.com/authid/detail.url?authorId=15829758300 
> *
> *http://scholar.google.co.in/citations?user=zpMP4mkJ=en 
> *
>
>

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[efloraofindia:264280] Re: SCROPHULARIACEAE WEEK: Neopicrorhiza scrophulariiflora from Uttarakhand_DSR_2

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Interesting that Dr Rawat should have found this plant to be rarer (at 
least in Uttarakhand) than Picrorhiza kurrooa, given the Wikipedia entry.

On Friday, August 9, 2013 at 7:34:57 AM UTC+1, D.S Rawat wrote:
>
> *Neopicrorhiza scrophulariflora* (Pennell) D.Y.Hong [=*Picrorhiza 
> scrophulariiflora*] is an important medicinal plant growing wild in sub 
> alpine and alpine zones of Uttarakhand. It is much used in Ayurveda and 
> traded by the name ‘Kutki’ or ‘Kadvi’. Excessive collection of this herb 
> from wild has led it to a status of *Vulnerable* in Indian Red Data Book.
>
> A little different form with bigger leaves is identified as *Picrorhiza 
> kurroa* with similar medicinal properties. However, this form is rarer in 
> nature.
>
> Previously in Scrophulariaceae, it is now placed in Plantaginaceae.
>
> Photographed in Sunderdhunga area, Bageshwar district Uttarakhand.
>
> [image: Inline image 1]DSRawat Pantnagar [image: Inline image 2]
>

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[efloraofindia:264243] Re: Pinus roxburghii AT NOV 2016/06

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Excellent images.  Informative - CLEARLY very different to P.wallichiana.  
I shall shortly be posting some
images of first year (immature) green cones of P.wallichiana.

On Thursday, November 3, 2016 at 3:50:04 PM UTC, Anil Thakur wrote:

> Pinus roxburghii (Syn. Pinus longifolia) 
> Common name: Chir pine 
> Shimla & Solan (H.P.) 
> March 2014 &  October 2016 
>
> The species name Pinus longifolia was used by Salisbury for another 
> plant from southeastern United States in 1796 (accepted name Pinus 
> palustris Mill. given in 1768) . Unaware of this name, Roxburgh named 
> Himalayan chir pine as Pinus logifolia in 1803. Later, Sargent came 
> across this mistake and named it as P. roxburghii in honour of 
> Roxburgh in 1897. So, P. longifolia is an illegitimate later homonym 
> (Melbourne ICN Art. 53) that was unavailable for use. 
>
>
> -- 
> With best Regards, 
>
> Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur 
>

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[efloraofindia:264241] Re: Pine tree for ID : 031011 : AK-1

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Yes, although not a close image, it does appear to be P.roxburghii.  
Definitely not P.wallichiana.

On Monday, October 3, 2011 at 7:33:26 AM UTC+1, Aarti S. Khale wrote:
>
> Picture taken at a park in Udhampur, Kashmir on way to Patni Top...on the 
> 5th of Sept,11.
> Another Pine species.
> Could this be Chir Pine?
> Aarti 
>

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[efloraofindia:264239] Re: Gymnosperms Fortnight :: 12122013 ARK-15 :: Pinus for ID :: Ooty

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

SURELY these images are NOT of Pinus wallichiana. NOTHING like it!  Is this 
species recorded from Ooty?  Flowers of the Himalaya does not mention its
occurrence in south India.  I am NOT familiar with Pinus patula, which is a 
native of the highlands of Mexico.  This pine has been widely introduced
into and cultivated in a number of countries including, apparently, 
India.   Are there are Native pines growing at Ooty.  I imagine it is the 
sort of place
where the British may well have introduced pines from around the world and 
no doubt since Independence assorted pines may have be grown.

One finds quite a number of non-native trees at Manali, H.P.
On Thursday, December 12, 2013 at 5:29:29 PM UTC, Alka Khare wrote:

> Hello friends
>
> Attached are pictures of a plant captured in Ooty in November 2013.
>
> Requested to please provide ID.
>
> Thanks and Regards
> Alka Khare
>

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[efloraofindia:264238] Re: Pinus wallichiana AT NOV 2016/10

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Nice shot of second-year (mature) cones of Pinus wallichiana.

On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 7:12:21 PM UTC, Anil Thakur wrote:
>
> Pinus wallichiana 
> Kail 
> Himalayan Blue Pine 
> Theog (30km from Shimla, towards Rampur) H.P. 
> October 2016 
>
> -- 
> With best Regards, 
>
> Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur 
>

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[efloraofindia:264236] Re: Pine Species For ID : Srinagar : 15JUN16 : AK-23

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Yes, this is Pinus wallichiana.  I shall be posting some images of 
close-ups of the first year cones of a specimen of this species at the UBG,
Srinagar - which are green (immature).  The first two images here show 
second-year cones (mature).

On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 5:31:53 PM UTC+1, Aarti S. Khale wrote:

> Pine Species seen in a Botanical Garden in Srinagar on the 24th April.
> Aarti
>

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[efloraofindia:264235] Re: HP, Oct 2014 :: Requesting ID - Pine :: ARKNOV-70

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Yes, this is Pinus wallichiana.  I will post some nice shots I took of this 
tree at the bottom of the Rohtang.   When by road from Chandigarh to Manali,
one encounters P.roxburghii forest in the Siwalik Hills.

On Sunday, November 30, 2014 at 1:27:37 PM UTC, Alka Khare wrote:

> Hello friends
>
> Requesting to please provide ID of this pine captured near Manali, HP in 
> October 2014.
>
> Thanks and Regards
> Alka Khare
>
>

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[efloraofindia:264234] Re: Gymnosperms Fortnight :: 12122013 ARK-17 :: Pinus for ID :: Kharapatthar, Himachal Pradesh

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Please, on future occasions, take close-ups of the foliage - especially if 
there are no cones to observe.  Such close-ups would readily show the
number of needles per cluster.  In P.wallichiana they come in clusters of 
5; whereas in P.roxburghii they are in 3s.

On Thursday, December 12, 2013 at 5:33:28 PM UTC, Alka Khare wrote:

> Hello friends
>
> Attached are pictures of a plant captured at Kharapatthar, Himachal 
> Pradesh in May 2010.
>
> Requested to please provide ID.
>
> Thanks and Regards
> Alka Khare
>

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[efloraofindia:264232] Re: Gymnosperms Fortnight- Pinaceae- Pinus wallichiana from Uttarakhand-GS-37

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Not being a close-up, the final image is a bit confusing but must surely 
come within P.wallichiana.

On Friday, December 13, 2013 at 10:33:52 AM UTC, Gurcharan Singh wrote:
>
> Pinus wallichiana A. B. Jacks., Usually found at altitudes above 1500 m in 
> Himalayas; leaves 5 in a cluster, up to 20 cm long; female cones up to 30 
> cm long, drooping, leathery.
> Photographed from Kashmir.
>
>
> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> Retired  Associate Professor
> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
> Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 
>

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[efloraofindia:264231] Re: GYMNOSPERMS FORTNIGHT :: Pinus wallichiana? from Shimla-NS 15

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I am in agreement with Dr Singh that these are Pinus wallichiana.

On Friday, December 6, 2013 at 3:24:13 AM UTC, Nidhan Singh wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> This single image was shot at Shimla..though this is a distant shot, this 
> looks like a *Pinus* sp. 
> Can this be *P. wallichiana*?? Please suggest..
> Second image shows the resin tapping from a Pine tree
> -- 
> Regards,
>
> Dr. Nidhan Singh
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Botany
> I.B. (PG) College
> Panipat-132103 Haryana
> Ph.: 09416371227
>

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[efloraofindia:264230] Re: Pine Tree for ID : 031011 : AK-2

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Yes, these images seem to be of Pinus wallichiana - NOT P.roxburghii which 
has ovoid-conical cones.

On Monday, October 3, 2011 at 7:39:47 AM UTC+1, Aarti S. Khale wrote:
>
> These pictures were taken on way to Pahalgam on the 6th of Sept, after 
> leaving Patni Top.
> Could be the same as the one posted earlier or different species of Pine.
> Regards,
> Aarti
>

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[efloraofindia:264229] Re: Pine Tree for ID : 021011 : AK-2

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I am in agreement with Dr Singh that this is Pinus wallichiana - the shape 
of cones of P.roxburghii are very different, ovoid-conical.

On Sunday, October 2, 2011 at 7:07:30 AM UTC+1, Aarti S. Khale wrote:
>
> Taken at Pahalgam, Kashmir on the 7th of Sept, 2011.
> Pahalgam is at a height of 2740 metres above sea level.
> Is this Chir Pine?
> Aarti
>

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[efloraofindia:264228] Re: Gymnosperms fortnight :: Pinaceae: Pinus wallichiana from Paddar valley SKR01

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Yes, this is Pinus wallichiana - they are mature (second-year) cones.  I 
shall be posting images of first-year, green (immature) cones shortly.

On Thursday, December 5, 2013 at 5:34:51 PM UTC, Suresh Rana wrote:
>
> *Pinus wallichiana *from Paddar valley Jammu and Kashmir.
>
> *
> Suresh Kumar
> JRF, Wildlife Institute of India.
> Mb. +919984027239
>

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[efloraofindia:264167] Re: Campanulaceae & Gentianaceae Fortnight: Campanula for ID from Himachal : GSG-03

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Yes, this does seem to be Codonopsis ovata - see my recent posting of 
close-up images of this species taken in Kashmir.

On Friday, July 11, 2014 at 5:35:43 AM UTC+1, gurinder goraya wrote:
>
> Dears,
>  
> Kindly help in identification of the species... About 75 cm tall, 
> erect. [Alt. 3000 m asl; District Chamba]  
>  
>   
>  
>  
>  
>   
>  
>  
>  
> Regards,
>
> *Dr. G. S. Goraya, IFS*
> Deputy Director General (Research),
> Indian Council of Forestry Research & Education,
> New Forest P.O., DEHRADUN - 248 006.
> Uttarakhand, India.
>  
> Tel & Fax (O): 0135-2757775
>  
>

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[efloraofindia:264166] Re: VoF Week :: DV :: 03 AUG 12 - 0224 :: Campanula aristata along Hemakund - Ghangaria trail

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I presume it should be C.aristata (which is recorded from the area) but the 
images confuse me somewhat.  I am far from certain.  Please ensure you 
photograph both upper and lower leaves next time.  From the first image I 
cannot be sure which are the leaves of this plant?  Also, close-ups of 
flowers would help.

Take a look at the images of C.aristata I have just posted taken in Kashmir 
and compare - they do not match perfectly.

On Saturday, August 25, 2012 at 10:36:41 AM UTC+1, Dinesh Valke wrote:

> * Campanula aristata * Wall. ... (family: Campanulaceae) 
> [image: Brahmakamal near Hemakund] 
> 
>  
> 3 AUG 12
> Hemakund - Ghangaria trail ... about 12300 ft 
> --
> [image: Campanula aristata] 
> 
>  
>
> [image: Campanula aristata] 
> 
>  
> Regards.
> Dinesh 
>

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[efloraofindia:264165] Re: Last few Pangi id's - al191011A

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

This is Campanula aristata.  Quite good close-ups.  Please photograph lower 
(basal) leaves next time, in addition to upper (cauline) ones.

On Wednesday, October 19, 2011 at 5:48:49 PM UTC+1, Alok Mahendroo wrote:
>
> Dear friends...
> A beautiful bellshaped flower
>
> Location Pangi Valley
> Altitude 4000 mts
> Habit herb Habitat wild
> Height
> -- 
> Himalayan Village Education Trust
> Village Khudgot,
> P.O. Dalhousie
> District Chamba
> H.P. 176304, India
>
> www.hivetrust.wordpress.com
> www.forwildlife.wordpress.com
>
> http://mushroomobserver.org/observer/observations_by_user?_js=on&_new=true=2186
>
>

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[efloraofindia:264164] Re: Campanula_Kashmir

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Very small images but must surely be Campanula aristata.  Please provide 
close-up photos next time.

On Thursday, August 14, 2014 at 8:06:37 AM UTC+1, ANZAR KHUROO wrote:
>
> Pls validate the ID as
> *Campanula aristata* Wall.
>
> -- 
> **
> Regards
>  
> *Anzar A Khuroo *
> *(NET, SET, M Phil, Ph D)*
>
>
> *Senior Assistant Professor*
> *Centre for Biodiversity and Taxonomy (CBT) Department of Botany, *
>
> *University of KashmirSrinagar - 190 006, Jammu and Kashmir, India *
>  
> E-mail: anz...@gmail.com  ; anza...@kashmiruniversity.net 
> 
> Cell phone: *+91- 962206 (within Kashmir)*; *+91-8105050865 (outside 
> Kashmir)*
>
>
> *Citations:*
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Anzar_Khuroo/publications
> *http://www.scopus.com/authid/detail.url?authorId=15829758300 
> *
> *http://scholar.google.co.in/citations?user=zpMP4mkJ=en 
> *
>
>

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[efloraofindia:264095] Re: Iris lactea ?? at Hemis, Ladakh- July-PKA-12

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Yes, this comes within what is now known as Iris lactea.

On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 5:38:29 AM UTC+1, Prashant wrote:
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> Seen this Iris sp. at Hemis, Ladakh. Could this be Iris lactea?
>
> Regards
> Prashant
>

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[efloraofindia:264094] Re: ID request-131011-PKA2

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Yes, these are the pods of what is now Iris lactea.

On Thursday, October 13, 2011 at 5:22:12 PM UTC+1, Prashant wrote:
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> I had seen this herb at Leh. 
>
> Date/Time: 16-09-2011 / 08:45AM
> Location: Leh, Ladakh
> Habitat: Wild
> Plant Habit: Herb
>
> Regards
> Prashant
>

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[efloraofindia:264046] Re: Campanual argyritricha from Uttarakhand

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

See my recent postings about the difficulties distinguishing between 
small-flowered Campanulas in the Himalaya.  These images do not match well
with the two further postings from Uttarakhand under C.argyrotricha.

On Saturday, September 21, 2013 at 6:08:32 AM UTC+1, D.S Rawat wrote:

> *Campanula argyrotricha* Wall. ex A.DC. (Campanulaceae) is a frequent 
> lithophytic herb in sub alpine and alpine zones of Uttarakhand. It grows in 
> dry rock crevices producing usually bluish flowers. 
>
> Here photographed in Upper Alaknanda valley on way to Vasudhara in 
> September.
>
> DSRawat Pantnagar
>

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[efloraofindia:264041] Re: Last few Pangi id's - al191011A

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I am currently taking a look at Campanulaceae on eFI.  Will comment further 
about this plant but was surprised at the suggestion of
Wahlenbergia marginata - this is only recorded from subtropical Himalaya @ 
600-1400m.  To find it at 4000m would be an extraordinary
extension of its range!

On Wednesday, October 19, 2011 at 5:48:49 PM UTC+1, Alok Mahendroo wrote:

> Dear friends...
> A beautiful bellshaped flower
>
> Location Pangi Valley
> Altitude 4000 mts
> Habit herb Habitat wild
> Height
> -- 
> Himalayan Village Education Trust
> Village Khudgot,
> P.O. Dalhousie
> District Chamba
> H.P. 176304, India
>
> www.hivetrust.wordpress.com
> www.forwildlife.wordpress.com
>
> http://mushroomobserver.org/observer/observations_by_user?_js=on&_new=true=2186
>
>

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[efloraofindia:264041] Re: Campanula cana ATJUNE2016/25

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I have my doubts about this coming with C.cana - see the posting I am about 
to make of an image taken in H.P. of what I
consider is C.cana.

On Monday, June 27, 2016 at 7:02:26 PM UTC+1, Anil Thakur wrote:

> Campanula cana 
> Shimla 
> March/April 
>
>
> -- 
> With best Regards, 
>
> Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur 
>

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[efloraofindia:264038] Re: Campanulaceae & Gentianaceae Week: Campanulaceae-Campanula 02 from Paddar valley J

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I have my doubts about this coming with C.cana - see the posting I am about 
to make of an image taken in H.P. of what I
consider is C.cana.

On Sunday, July 8, 2012 at 8:26:47 AM UTC+1, Suresh Rana wrote:

> Campanulaceae & Gentianaceae Week: Campanulaceae
>
> Kindly confirm the ID
> Bot. name: Campanula pallida
> Location: Paddar valley J
> Altitude: 2000 meters asl
> Date:19th May 2012
>
> Kindly have a look on Dr. Gurcharan Sir's post
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/indiantreepix/Cs8q2LWP6yY
>  
>
> -- 
> Warm regards
> Suresh Rana
>
>

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[efloraofindia:264038] Re: Campanulaceae & Gentianaceae Week: Campanulaceae-Campanula 03 from Paddar valley J

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I have my doubts about this coming with C.cana - see the posting I am about 
to make of an image taken in H.P. of what I
consider is C.cana.

On Sunday, July 8, 2012 at 8:30:16 AM UTC+1, Suresh Rana wrote:

> Campanulaceae & Gentianaceae Week: Campanulaceae
>
> Kindly confirm the Id
> Bot. name: Campanula cana
> Location: Paddar valley J
> Date: 19th May 2012
>
> Kindly have a look on the below link
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/indiantreepix/_YBIL-1hi9o
>  
>
> -- 
> Warm regards
> Suresh Rana
>
>

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[efloraofindia:264036] Re: Campanulaceae & Gentianaceae Week: Campanulaceae-Campanula cana from Manali

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I have my doubts about this coming with C.cana - see the posting I am about 
to make of an image taken in H.P. of what I
consider is C.cana.

On Tuesday, July 3, 2012 at 4:26:36 AM UTC+1, Gurcharan Singh wrote:

> *Campanula cana* Wall. in Roxb., Fl. Ind. 2: 101. 1824. 
>
> There has been a long discussion on this plant when Prashant ji uploaded 
> his plant, which we now agree to be Campanula pallida var. pallida.
>
> The photographs uploaded by me here after comparing several others appear 
> Campanula cana ( and not C. pallida as depicted on FOI) more firmly because.
>
> 1. The following links on Flora of China which resemble mine:
> http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=104629_id=800 
> http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=104630_id=800 
> http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=104631_id=800 
> http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=104632_id=800 
> http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=104633_id=800 
>
> 2. The plant, leaves, calyx are softly hairy and giving whitish hue to 
> these parts, and not bristly.
> 3. calyx lobes nearly linear to subulate, not triangular and not toothed, 
> more or less spreading.
> 4. Corolla lobes almost as long as tube and somewhat spreading.
> 5. style slightly exserted (and not included as in C. pallida) and clearly 
> 3-lobed stigma.
>
> The flower colour does look lighter than in description, but it matches 
> with eFl of China photographs.
>
>
>
>
>  
>
> -- 
> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> Retired  Associate Professor
> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
> Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 
>
>

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[efloraofindia:264036] Re: Campanulaceae & Gentianaceae week: Campanula for id from Chakrata

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I have my doubts about this coming with C.cana - see the posting I am about 
to make of an image taken in H.P. of what I
consider is C.cana.  There has been much confusion about the small-flowered 
Campanulas in the Himalaya.

On Friday, July 6, 2012 at 4:29:27 PM UTC+1, Nidhan Singh wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> This Campanula species was shot from Chakrata area in september 2011. Id 
> please...
> -- 
> Regards,
>
> Dr. Nidhan Singh
> Department of Botany
> I.B. (PG) College
> Panipat-132103 Haryana
> Ph.: 09416371227
>
>

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[efloraofindia:262931] Re: Senecio chrysanthemoides in Ladakh

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Thanks very much for drawing my attention to the article 'Death sentence on 
taxonomy in India' - BRAVO to the authors for "speaking up and out".
Much Needed.

I shall  be commenting further - on what is SUCH a serious situation, 
especially ON TOP OF 70 years of botanical isolation since Indian 
Independence. It
is noteworthy that both Pakistan and Nepal have collaborated 
Internationally MUCH better than India, such that despite a FRACTION of the 
manpower
and resources of India, their 'Himalayan Flora' is known to a higher 
standard than India's - the same can even be said for the decidedly 
isolated Kingdom
of Bhutan!   Those devising and implementing such "rules and regulations" 
have NO interest or concern about the study & conservation of Indian's 
flora -
which can only suffer FURTHER.

Looks like we are heading into an era when the likes of Donald Trump rule.  
IGNORANCE RULES OK!.   The idea that such measures help PROTECT India's
flora is a NONSENSE.   Their ONLY concern is not MISSING OUT on their cut 
of any POTENTIAL PROFITS..

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 7:36:31 AM UTC, JM Garg wrote:

>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: C CHADWELL 
> Date: 21 January 2017 at 01:21
> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:261908] Fwd: Senecio chrysanthemoides DC. 
> (provisionally accepted name) ???
> To: "J.M. Garg" , efloraofindia <
> indian...@googlegroups.com >
> Cc: Saroj Kasaju 
>
>
> Further to my comments about the difficulties of identifying Senecio 
> chrysanthemoides and related
> species, I attach an image of what I understand to be this species taken 
> for me in Ladakh as a slide
> in the late 1980s/early 1990s, which has been scanned in.
>
> This was one of the first pressed specimens collected by my team during 
> the 1980 University of Southampton
> Ladakh Expedition - gathered in triplicate, with a set deposited in the 
> herbarium of the University of Kashmir.
> This was at 3300m, Panichar, Suru Valley on a grassy verge beside 
> irrigation stream and a barley field in moist
> loam amongst Trifolium, grasses, Geranium himalayense with bright yellow 
> ray florets, disc florets brown.
>
> Stewart recorded S.chrysanthemoides as common, very variable with the 
> forms NEEDING TO BE STUDIED
> in cultivation and chromosome counts should be made.  Recorded from 
> Kashmir & Ladakh @ 1700-4000m.
> Stewart recognised var. analogus and var. sisymbriiformis - saying this 
> was common on high pastures in Kashmir
> as it is avoided by grazing animals.
>
> Flowers of the Himalaya state that S.chrysanthemoides is found in 
> shrubberies and open slopes, common & often
> gregarious @ 2400-4000m from Pakistan to SW China.
>
> Flora of Lahaul-Spiti does not record S.chrysanthemoides but has S.laetus 
> with var. laetus common on moist slopes
> and along glacial streams at Khoksar.  Also var. sisymbriiformis (DC.) 
> Aswal comb.nov. (syn. Senecio chrysanthemoides
> var. sisymbriiformis and obviously a mistake but rather glaring to be 
> printed, SISYMBRIUM sisymbriiformis) which the
> authors say is common on moist slopes and along streams at Kirting.
>
> Collet in 'Flora Simlensis' found S.chrysanthemoides common at Shimla and 
> Mahasu.
>
> Himalayan Plants Illustrated has a photo of S.laetus Edgew. with 
> S.chrysanthemoides DC. as a synonym.
>
> BUT Dickore & Klimes do NOT list S.chrysanthemoides from Ladakh. although 
> the species remains an ACCEPTED name - at least
> in 'The Plant List'.  Nor do they list S.laetus.
>
> So which of the species listed by them was previously known as 
> S.chrysanthemoides - after all the specimens from the 1980
> expedition were named at Kew and thus we can assume was correctly 
> identified and in line with the thinking at that time - albeit
> some 37 years ago.
>
> They list S.dubitabilis, which if the illustrations and specimen which can 
> be accessed through 'The Plant List' are correct, this cannot be confused
> with what used to be S.chrysanthemoides and may be what Stewart knew as 
> S.desfontanei (common in dry areas from the plains to
> 3000m in Ladakh).
>
> I CANNOT find any meaningful information about Senecio korschinskyi. which 
> Dickore & Klimes do list but have just
> spotted Senecio ladakhensis Chowdhery, Uniyal, Mathur & Rao.  *This 
> species was published in the Indian Journal of Forestry (*
> *13[4] 366-67  in 1990*).  If any members have ready access to this would 
> they share the information with us particularly how it is .  I am 
> particularly interested
> in which species of Senecio this NEW species might have been mistaken for 
> in the past?
>
> Strange that it was published back in 1990 yet Dickore & Klimes did not 
> include it in their check-list of Ladakh plants in 2005.
>
> *This is the first I have heard of S.ladakhensis.*  Just goes to show 
> that unless one works at an International Institution, which has copies
> of such publications as The Indian 

[efloraofindia:262740] Re: Aster species from Paddar valley (indian...@googlegroups.com)

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I have serious doubts about this being Aster falconeri.  I am about to post 
an image of what I THINK is this species.  Flowers of the Himalaya
describes A.falconeri has having SOLITARY flower-heads (the specimen 
photographed in Paddar Valley does not).  The foliage does not seem to fit
either.

I am in agreement that it is difficult when flower-heads have not fully 
opened/the plant fully developed.  Aster (and related genera) are difficult 
at
the best of times.

On Friday, March 23, 2012 at 1:04:46 PM UTC, Suresh Rana wrote:

> I've shared Aster species from Paddar valley 
> 
> Click to open: 
>
>- Aster species from Paddar valley 
>
> 
>
>
> Request for ID confirmation
>
> Kindly confirm the Identification
>
> Bot name: Aster falconeri
>
> Family: Compositae
>
> Location: Paddar valley Kishtwar J
>
> Date: 2nd August 2011
>
> Altitude: 3500 meters asl
>
> Suresh Rana
>
> Google Docs makes it easy to create, store and share online documents, 
> spreadsheets and presentations. 
> [image: Logo for Google Docs] 
>

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[efloraofindia:262738] Re: Trifolium repens L. (accepted name)

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I note that the Annotated Checklist of Nepal Flora has Trifolium pratense 
as doubtful in Nepal - probably mistaken for a form of
T.repens.  Trifoliums can look similar.

On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 4:40:15 PM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:

> Dear Members,
>
> Location: Bojepokhari, Lalitpur, Nepal
> Altitude: 4200 ft.
> Date: 28 January 2017
>
> Nepali Name: सेतो बेहुली Seto Behuli  
>
> Thank you.
>
> Saroj Kasaju
>

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[efloraofindia:262737] Re: Trifolium repens L. (accepted name)

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I think this MUST be T.repens.  In the UK we have about 21 species of 
Trifolium - T.repens is one of the commonest but care is needed
to check it is not mistaken for similar species.

According to Enumeration of the Flowering Plants of Nepal, it is widely 
naturalised in the temperate regions of the world, native of Europe,
N.Africa & W & C. Asia - *so another ALIEN plant which has naturalised.*

Flora of Kathmandu Valley also record T.pratense but the Enumeration is 
uncertain about that record.

Flowers of Himalaya says 'White or Dutch Clover' is found in grassy places 
@ 1500-2500m throughout the Himalaya.

Stewart records it in Kashmir & Ladakh to 3600m.

On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 4:40:15 PM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:

> Dear Members,
>
> Location: Bojepokhari, Lalitpur, Nepal
> Altitude: 4200 ft.
> Date: 28 January 2017
>
> Nepali Name: सेतो बेहुली Seto Behuli  
>
> Thank you.
>
> Saroj Kasaju
>

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[efloraofindia:262643] Re: May 18, "Fascination of Plants Day": Paeonia emodi, the Himalayan Peony from Kashmir

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

This is correctly identified.  I have a good set of images of Himalayan 
Peony being grown in Kohli Memorial Botanical Garden in UK.
Plan to post a selection at some point.

On Friday, May 18, 2012 at 3:36:26 AM UTC+1, Gurcharan Singh wrote:

> This year I had planned an early visit to Kashmir to capture some early 
> flowering plants, especially bulbous plants, Prunus, Salix and Populus. I 
> got delayed by nearly fifteen days to miss many of these but am being well 
> compensated by many interesting captures. Yesterday while driving towards 
> Pahalgam, a few kilometres before, I noticed a huge patch of this profusely 
> flowering Himalayan Peony, across the river. While returning back I asked 
> my Bhabi  who has huge interest in garden plants to keep watch on our side 
> of the river, and finally was able to capture this Himalayan beauty, my 
> last capture yesterday.  Paeonia emodi Wall. ex Royle, Ill. bot. Himal. 
> Mts. 1(2):57. 1834
> Common name: Himalayan peony
> Hindi: Ud-salap
> Punjab: Mamekh, chandra
> Kashmir: Mid
>
> Robust perennial often up to 1 m tall; leaves alternate, 30-60 cm long 
> with 3 leaflets, each commonly 3-parted into up to 15 cm long lanceolate 
> entire segments; flowers 7-12 cm across, white, each on long stalk;  sepals 
> 5, orbicular, green, persistent; petals 5-10, ovate, concave; stamens 
> numerous with yellow anthers; carpels 1-3, hairy; follicle usually 1, 3-4 
> cm long.
>
> Photographed from hilly slope on way between Aishmuqam and Pahalgam.
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> Retired  Associate Professor
> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
> Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089
> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 
>
>

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[efloraofindia:262642] Re: Garden Plant for ID : Pahalgam : 021111 : AK-3

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Yes, this is Paeonia emodi at fruiting stage.  I have a good set of images 
of the Himalayan Peony being grown in the Kohli Memorial Botanical Garden
in UK, a selection of which I intend to post at some point.

On Wednesday, November 2, 2011 at 7:26:49 AM UTC, Aarti S. Khale wrote:

> A garden plant, cultivated at the hotel garden at Pahalgam.
> Picture taken on the 8th of Sept,11.
> Sadly the flower has fallen off.
> Leaves look peculiar dividing into two.
> Sir ji, went thro' your Kashmir picturescan't find any clues for this 
> one.
> Aarti
>

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[efloraofindia:262641] Re: Flowers from Uttarakhand-ID requested_DS11052011_SN3

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Yes, Dr Chauhan is correct, this is Paeonia emodi - the only peony known 
from the Himalaya proper.  I first came across this near Pahlgam, Kashmir.
I have a good set of images of these in cultivation in the Kohli Memorial 
Botanical Garden in the UK, which I intend to post at some point.

On Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at 8:59:00 AM UTC+1, dalia wrote:

> Spotted near Trijuginarayan - uttarakhand - milky white flowers with 
> yellow pollen - very nice to look at. On small shrubs  at raodside. Flower 
> around 2 inch in dia.
>  
> Id request.
> Thanks
> Dalia
>

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[efloraofindia:262638] Re: Wojciech Adamowski- Our valued member

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I am DELIGHTED that this group has someone specialising in Impatiens.  I 
have quite a number of images of balsams taken
since the 1980s, which I plan to post from time-to-time, in case Wojciech 
can ideally DETERMINE them or at least give an informed
opinion as to what they might be.  I have a number which I am uncertain 
about.

Also, I am interested in IMPATIENS GLANDULIFERA naturalised in the UK and 
wonder if the form(s) which have widely naturalised
there (and into Europe & S.America) ALL derive from the FIRST introductions 
into cultivation in the 1830s or, perhaps SUBSEQUENT ones?
As far as I know, it took some time before it started to spread 
excessively

On Friday, January 27, 2017 at 5:02:26 AM UTC, JM Garg wrote:

> *Institutions*: University of Warsaw
> *Goal*: My dream goal is fully searchable database of literature dealing 
> with all possible aspects of Balsaminaceae family.
> It is very ambitious goal and may be difficultible to reach, as I am 
> collecting data in my spare time. 
> My collection of references, stored as Excel file, could be however useful 
> for all students of Impatiens and Hydrocera as reference point.
> Collaborations, additions, corrections and comments are welcomed.
>
> "By the way, my database of literature dealing with Balsaminaceae is 
> available via my ResearchGate account:
> Balsaminaceae literature database by Wojciech Adamowski - Research Project 
> on ResearchGate 
> "
>
> My salutes to him for all the great work.
>
> -- 
> With regards,
> J.M.Garg
>
> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' 
> 
>
> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia 
> . 
>
> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, 
> please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group 
>  (largest in the 
> world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia 
> website  (with a species 
> database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images). 
>
> The whole world uses my Image Resource 
>  of more than a 
> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. 
> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as 
> per Creative Commons license attached with each image.
>
> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of 
> India'. 
>

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[efloraofindia:262636] Re: SK327JAN18-2017:ID

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

See my previous comments about the difficulties naming Epilobiums.

On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 3:54:06 PM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:
>
> Dear Members,
>
> Location: Kalinchowk, Dolakha, Nepal
> Altitude: 12000 ft.
> Date: 25 July 2014
>
> Epilobium ??
>
> Thank you.
>
> Saroj Kasaju
>

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[efloraofindia:262633] Re: Ranunculaceae Fortnight:Callianthemum pimpinelloides (D. Don) Hook. f. & Thomson

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Very hard to say.  Just one VERY POOR image.  Is it the fruits or gone-over 
flower which is thought MIGHT be Callianthemum?

Yet again, no location, altitude or month is provided.

The foliage seen is certainly NOT Callianthemum.

MUCH better and MANY more photos required, with good close-ups of flowers 
or fruits and foliage are required to be in a position to comment 
meaningfully.

Cannot justify devoting any more time to it.

On Saturday, January 17, 2015 at 6:31:06 AM UTC, ANZAR KHUROO wrote:

> Not Sure, perhaps* Callianthemum pimpinelloides* (D. Don) Hook. f. & 
> Thomson from Kashmir
> Plz validate...
>
> -- 
> **
> Regards
>  
> *Anzar A Khuroo *
> *(NET, SET, M Phil, Ph D)*
>
>
> *Senior Assistant Professor*
> *Centre for Biodiversity and Taxonomy (CBT)Department of Botany, *
>
> *University of KashmirSrinagar - 190 006, Jammu and Kashmir, India*
>  
> E-mail: anz...@gmail.com  ; anza...@kashmiruniversity.net 
> 
> Cell phone: *+91- 962206 (within Kashmir)*; *+91-8105050865 (outside 
> Kashmir)*
>
>
> *Citations:*
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Anzar_Khuroo/publications
> *http://www.scopus.com/authid/detail.url?authorId=15829758300 
> *
> *http://scholar.google.co.in/citations?user=zpMP4mkJ=en 
> *
>
>

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[efloraofindia:262511] Re: SK326JAN17-2017:ID

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

This does seem to be a Brassica.  I cannot avoid saying that the photos are 
not good - indeed some are completely out-of-focus
with none in close-up.  This makes identification more difficult.

Having said that, this does appear like a 'weed' which has 'escaped' from 
cultivation, as frequently happens with many Brassicas
in different parts of the world incl. the UK.

The Annotated Checklist of the Flowering Plants of Nepal lists 13 taxa 
belonging to 5 species within the genus.

All the species present in Nepal are recorded from the UK and using a key 
from 'The New flora of the British Isles' (hoping it applies to material in 
Nepal),
3 species are separated on the basis of stem-leaves being distinctly 
clasping the stem at base.  I have not found Brassicas always easy to tell 
apart in the UK.

They are Brassica oleracea, B.napus & B.rapa.  *Of these, the most likely 
is B.rapa, commonly known as 'Turnip' but I am from from sure about this*.  
This has 3 varieties in Nepal: var. dichotoma - which is cultivated in 
India & Nepal for oil; var. quadrivalvis - cultivated in India & Nepal; 
var. trilocularis - cultivated in Nepal, Himalaya and Assam.

The Plant List has an alarming number of synonyms for B.rapa!

Not sure how to distinguish between these and even if I had notes/a key, 
whether the images taken show sufficient detail is another matter.  

*As this is likely to prove to be an "escape from cultivation" only, I do 
NOT consider any more time is justified on this - especially as the photos 
are inadequate.  IF there is someone with expertise **in the genus 
Brassica, then perhaps they will be in a position to comment with 
authority.*

On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 4:28:40 PM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:

> Dear Members,
>
> Location: Suryabinayak,Bhaktapur, Nepal
> Altitude:  5000 ft.
> Date: 14 January 2017
>
> Thank you.
>
> Saroj Kasaju
>

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[efloraofindia:262507] Re: SK317JAN12-2017:ID

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

May I advise that Salix is an EXCEEDINGLY difficult genus.  In many cases 
SPECIALIST input is required.

On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 2:23:57 PM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:
>
> Dear Members,
>
> Location: Ranikot, Bhaktapur, Nepal
> Altitude: 6300 ft.
> Date: 10 May 2014
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Saroj Kasaju
>

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[efloraofindia:262506] Re: Amarnath Yatra :: Request for ID (NSJ-03 - 26/08/2013)

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I am in agreement with Dr Rawat that this fits S.prostrata - Narendra's 
photos match colour-wise the one taken in Kashmir which appears
in 'Flowers of the Himalaya'.

I am about to post a couple of photos of this plant I took more than 30 
years ago in Lahoul, H.P. 

On Monday, August 26, 2013 at 8:25:02 AM UTC+1, raj wrote:

> On the way to Sheshnag from Chandanwari
>
> Altitude 1' (Approx)
> Date Aug 11, 2013
>
> -- 
> With Regards,
> Narendra Joshi 
>

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[efloraofindia:262404] Re: Cardamine hirsuta L. (accepted name) ??

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

My final post 'today'.  Cardamine hirsute is not recorded from Nepal either 
in the Enumeration or latest Annotated Checklist.  Several Cardamine species
are known from Nepal.  In the UK we have both C.hirsuta and C.flexuosa 
(which is recorded from Nepal) which are similar.  They are distinguished 
(in the
UK) on the basis of C.hirsuta being an annual with 4 stamens, whereas 
C.flexuosa is a biennial (often perennating) with 6 stamens.

*From the first photo it appears the specimen has 6 stamens - making it 
likely to be C.flexuosa NOT C.hirsuta.  Enumeration has C.arcuata subsp. 
flexuosa @ 1000-4000m in **Nepal & Temperate Eurasia.  The more up-to-date 
Annotated Checklist for Nepal has C.flexuosa but no mention of C.*
*arcuata*

*Would need to check the plant photographed by Saroj is not any of the 
other species of Cardamine recorded for Nepal.*



On Saturday, January 14, 2017 at 4:33:31 PM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:

> Dear Members,
>
> Location: Godawari, Nepal
> Altitude: 5000 ft.
> Date: 10 January 2017
>
> Thank you.
>
> Saroj Kasaju
>

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[efloraofindia:262400] Re: SK180NOV05-2016:ID

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

The immature fruits of this shrub make identification difficult unless one 
is familiar with the genus/species concerned.  I would therefore say better 
to WAIT until images of mature fruits and/ideally, flowers are available.

However, may be worth mentioning that 3 species of Psychotria (of Rubiaceae 
family) are listed in Enumeration of Flowering Plants of Nepal: 
P.calocarpa, P.denticulata & P.erratica.  The first is based on a record by 
Hooker but no location nor specimen has been found at Kew!  P.denticulata 
is based upon a Wallich
specimen from 1821!  Whereas P.erratica is only known from 300-700m in 
Nepal.  So these seem improbable.

As for Viburnum cylindricum (which I have recently posted about within my 
comments on supposed Sino-Japanese flora in Pakistan), I cannot judge the 
young fruits as matching a Viburnum.  Difficult to say.  This species is 
known from what was Kumaon to NEFA, India, Sri Lanka, Myanamar, W.China 
etc.  In Nepal it is recorded from 1200-2500m - so this fits altitudinally 
and distribution-wise.   Also, Flowers of the Himalaya says this shrub or 
small tree is common at village level in Nepal, so
that fits.  

There is, helpfully, a shot of the underside of a leaf (I REGULARLY URGE 
PHOTOGRAPHERS TO TAKE SUCH SHOTS).   *Unfortunately, the image does NOT fit 
with the description of the underside of the leaf of V.cylindricum in 
Bhutan & Sikkim i.e. gland-dotted with tufts of hair, so I conclude it is 
UNLIKELY to prove to be this but the answer is to get good images of the 
plant in flower (first choice) or mature fruits, so that a genus can be 
worked out.*

On Saturday, November 5, 2016 at 6:13:59 PM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:

> Dear Members,
>
> Sharing some pictures for ID shot at Tarakeshwor, Nepal on 27 August 2016 
> at 6000 ft.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Saroj Kasaju
>

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[efloraofindia:262398] Re: Daphne papyracea Wall. ex Steud. (accepted name) ??

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

This appears to be another genus which requires investigating further.  I 
have minimal familiarity with the genus other than Daphne mucronata in 
Kashmir.

Enumeration of Flowering Plants of Nepal lists D.sureil (which is an 
accepted name in 'The Plant List') and there is a pressed specimen in the 
Kew herbarium under this name but this says the Nepalese plants (of this 
species) need further study.

Flora of Bhutan has a key to the species of Daphne found in Bhutan & 
Sikkim.  D.papyracea is only known from Kashmir to Nepal.  D.sureil is 
described as similar to D.bholua but a larger shrub.

I cannot comment further at this stage.  Yet another genus I need to look 
at further..

On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 4:33:24 PM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:

> Dear Members,
>
> Location : Shivapuri National Park, Nepal
> Altitude:  7200 ft.
> Date: 24 November 2012
>
>
> Saroj Kasaju
>

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[efloraofindia:262392] Re: SK340JAN24-2017:ID

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

This certainly appears to be a Gnaphalium.  Enumeration of the Flowering 
plants of Nepal lists 3 species: G.affine, G.hypoleucum & G.polycaulon -
there seems confusion over nomenclature.

Flora of Kathmandu Valley gives 2 species:  G.hypoleucum & G.luteo-album.  
The latter species is recorded from 1300-2300m on open, dry slopes; 
known as 'Kairo jhar'.  Described as having golden-yellow heads in dense 
corymbs.

Flowers of Himalaya describe G.affine & G.hypoleucum; surprisingly they 
have a photo of the latter species (not close-up and with flower-heads most
people would pay little attention to) but only a line drawing of the 
brightly coloured G.affine - which is eye-catching.  A photo of this 
appears in the Supplement
to Flowers of the Himalaya but fewer people have this.

*Of these, it seems to fit G.affine (syn. G.luteo-album var. multiceps) 
which FoH says a very common weed in cultivated areas @ 1200-3000m from 
Pakistan to **Bhutan & sub-tropical Asia.  Flower-heads globular, bright 
glistening yellow.   AND, rather surprisingly, seems to be NEW to eFI.*

Beware of the ALARMING number of synonyms some of the Gnaphaliums have.  
G.polycaulon is described as a pantropic weed.

On Tuesday, January 24, 2017 at 4:25:29 PM UTC, Saroj Kumar Kasaju wrote:

> Dear members 
>
> Location:Bajrabarahi,Nepal 
> Altitude: 4700 ft.
> Date: 31 December 2016
>
> Gnaphalium ...???
>
> Thank you.
>
> Saroj Kasaju
>

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[efloraofindia:262384] Re: Tree for ID fro Kullu, HP

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I have not actually checked to see whether I am in agreement as to the 
suggested identity of this tree but feel it would be informative
to say that Stewart considered this to be a native of China which was 
frequently planted.  He knew it from Peshawar and a few other places;
Rao recorded it from Srinagar.  Only ever passed through Kulu on 
buses/coaches so cannot comment much but I have seen many different
non-native trees planted around Manali.

On Wednesday, January 25, 2017 at 7:39:30 AM UTC, Dinesh Singh Rawat wrote:

> Id request for the attached tree species. 
> Medium sized deciduous tree, round canopy. 
>
> Kullu, HP 
> 1500 m asl 
> River side. 
>
> Thank you. 
> Dinesh S Rawat 
>

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[efloraofindia:262145] Re: Alpine Flowers

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I am about to post images of Eriophyton wallichii from Eastern Nepal.  The 
second image here does appear to be this species.  I am in agreement
that the third image is not Selinum tenuifolium.

On Wednesday, August 8, 2007 at 5:21:00 PM UTC+1, Rajendra Gurung wrote:

> Hi Friends,
> I just came back from the one trek to remote and isolated areas of Nepal, 
> called Nar-Phu. this was last village before Tibet. where i saw some many 
> beautiful flowers and among them *Himalayan Blue Puppy* and *Eriophyton 
> Wallichi* are found up to 4500M 5100M. 
>
> -- 
> Rajendra Gurung
> (Trekking Guide)
> FoB
> 98510-74756(mobile) 
>

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[efloraofindia:262144] Re: PLANT FOR ID 99 SMP JUN 09 Rohtang Pass

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Correctly identified.  See my recent post of images of Lagotis 
cashmeriana.  I have also seen this on the Rohtang.

On Wednesday, July 22, 2009 at 6:33:58 AM UTC+1, satish phadke wrote:
>
> This plant spotted near Rohtang Pass in Jun 2009 appears to be 
> *Lagotis cashmeriana*
> Dr Satish Phadke
> -- 
>
> http:// satishphadke.blogspot.com 
>

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[efloraofindia:262143] Re: Upper chamba al290811a

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

Correctly identified.  See my recent post of images of Lagotis cashmeriana.

On Monday, August 29, 2011 at 5:45:39 PM UTC+1, Alok Mahendroo wrote:
>
> Dear friends,
> Continuing the adventures... another beautiful flower for id..
>
> Location Chamba
> Altitude 4000 mts
> Habit herb
> Habitat wild
> Height 5-6 inches
>
> regards
> Alok
> -- 
> Himalayan Village Education Trust
> Village Khudgot,
> P.O. Dalhousie
> District Chamba
> H.P. 176304, India
>
> www.hivetrust.wordpress.com
> www.forwildlife.wordpress.com
>
> http://mushroomobserver.org/observer/observations_by_user?_js=on&_new=true=2186
>
>

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[efloraofindia:262106] Re: Aster from Pangi Al020112

[chrischadwell...@btinternet.com]

I have just taken a look at this posting in connection with an 
Aster/Erigeron photographed in Nepal originally thought
to be Aster himalaicus but definitely not this now thought perhaps 
E.multiradiatus, which it might be.

This is definitely not Erigeron multiradiatus - it may well be Aster 
falconeri, the original suggestion.

I have not had the time to face the DAUNTING task of scrutinising all 
Erigerons and Asters from the Himalaya - a challenging
task.  I have photos dating back decades which are not named beyond genus 
i.e. Aster sp.

On Wednesday, February 1, 2012 at 3:00:03 PM UTC, Alok Mahendroo wrote:

> Dear friends,
> Sharing a flower found on the Pangi trip
>
> Name - Aster Falconeri
> Location PAngi valley
> Altitude 4000 mts
> Habitat wild 
> Habit Herb
>
> regards
> Alok
> -- 
> Himalayan Village Education Trust
> Village Khudgot,
> P.O. Dalhousie
> District Chamba
> H.P. 176304, India
>
> www.hivetrust.wordpress.com
> www.forwildlife.wordpress.com
>
> http://mushroomobserver.org/observer/observations_by_user?_js=on&_new=true=2186
>
>

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