Re: Tuxedo and reliability (Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage)

[Philippe Cloutier]

Le 2020-01-30 à 03:38, Vinzenz Vietzke a écrit :

Hi Philippe,

Am 29. Januar 2020 22:46:14 schrieb Philippe Cloutier 
:



2. What comes on these PC-s? Vendor-specific GNU/Linux distributions?

It seemed to be a normal OpenSUSE installation (you can choose 
between a few

distros, that's nice).

Exactly. What we do with all our pre-installations is this scheme:

Minimal distribution setup + desktop pattern/metapackage + 
additional drivers

needed for the machines.



And how are these drivers added?


We add repositories to the package management system (Apt/Rpm) and 
pull the packages in during install. So e.g. we're adding 
graphics.tuxedocomputers.com to keep back untested graphics driver 
versions.


These repositories are accessible for manual installations as well as 
our fully automated ones during the manufacturing process.



Thank you Vinzenz. I would suggest to make that information available on 
Tuxedo's website. Unless it is already, in which case I find it 
difficult to find.





Cheers,
vinz.



--
Philippe Cloutier
http://www.philippecloutier.com

Re: Tuxedo and reliability (Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage)

[Vinzenz Vietzke]

Hi Philippe,

Am 29. Januar 2020 22:46:14 schrieb Philippe Cloutier :



2. What comes on these PC-s? Vendor-specific GNU/Linux distributions?

It seemed to be a normal OpenSUSE installation (you can choose between a few
distros, that's nice).

Exactly. What we do with all our pre-installations is this scheme:

Minimal distribution setup + desktop pattern/metapackage + additional drivers
needed for the machines.



And how are these drivers added?


We add repositories to the package management system (Apt/Rpm) and pull the 
packages in during install. So e.g. we're adding 
graphics.tuxedocomputers.com to keep back untested graphics driver versions.


These repositories are accessible for manual installations as well as our 
fully automated ones during the manufacturing process.


Cheers,
vinz.

Re: Tuxedo and reliability (Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage)

[Philippe Cloutier]

Thank you Vinzenz,

Le 2020-01-29 à 07:45, Vinzenz Vietzke a écrit :

Hi,


2. What comes on these PC-s? Vendor-specific GNU/Linux distributions?

It seemed to be a normal OpenSUSE installation (you can choose between a few
distros, that's nice).

Exactly. What we do with all our pre-installations is this scheme:

Minimal distribution setup + desktop pattern/metapackage + additional drivers
needed for the machines.



And how are these drivers added?




We try to stick with upstream as much as possible to avoid any vendor lock-in
for our customers.

If there are any questions or if you need further help please go ahead!

Cheers,
vinz.



--
Philippe Cloutier
http://www.philippecloutier.com

Re: Tuxedo and reliability (Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage)

[Vinzenz Vietzke]

Hi,

> 2. What comes on these PC-s? Vendor-specific GNU/Linux distributions?
> 
> It seemed to be a normal OpenSUSE installation (you can choose between a few
> distros, that's nice).

Exactly. What we do with all our pre-installations is this scheme:

Minimal distribution setup + desktop pattern/metapackage + additional drivers 
needed for the machines. 

We try to stick with upstream as much as possible to avoid any vendor lock-in 
for our customers.

If there are any questions or if you need further help please go ahead!

Cheers,
vinz.

Re: Tuxedo and reliability (Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage)

[Philippe Cloutier]

Le 2020-01-27 à 17:34, Alexander Neundorf a écrit :

On Samstag, 25. Januar 2020 15:11:36 CET Philippe Cloutier wrote:

Le 2020-01-25 à 02:47, Alexander Neundorf a écrit :

On Donnerstag, 23. Januar 2020 15:42:15 CET Niccolò Venerandi wrote:

Hi!
I'm working on adding a kde.org/hardware webpage. You can see screenshot
here: https://phabricator.kde.org/D26711. What do you think? ~Niccolò
Venerandi

Regarding Tuxedo: I bought one 5 years ago or so, and it is a good
machine.
But "They provide you with self-programmed driver packages, support,
installation scripts and everything around our hardware, so that every
hardware component really works. "
At least back then, this was not the case, no custom drivers, the
fingerprint scanner on the laptop does not work.

Did it work on (say) Microsoft Windows?

I don't know.



In that case, maybe your scanner was broken.


  

In any case, this claim comes straight from Tuxedo's website.


And maybe "They provide custom" instead of "They provide you with self-
programmed" ?

I was going to write the same, but refrained, because in fact this
brings more questions than it answers:

  1. Who has verified vendor claims before copying them? The one quoted
 by Alexander hasn't even been adapted to our viewpoint.
  2. What comes on these PC-s? Vendor-specific GNU/Linux distributions?

It seemed to be a normal OpenSUSE installation (you can choose between a few
distros, that's nice).



Thank you Alexander




Alex




--
Philippe Cloutier
http://www.philippecloutier.com

Re: Tuxedo and reliability (Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage)

[Alexander Neundorf]

On Samstag, 25. Januar 2020 15:11:36 CET Philippe Cloutier wrote:
> Le 2020-01-25 à 02:47, Alexander Neundorf a écrit :
> > On Donnerstag, 23. Januar 2020 15:42:15 CET Niccolò Venerandi wrote:
> >> Hi!
> >> I'm working on adding a kde.org/hardware webpage. You can see screenshot
> >> here: https://phabricator.kde.org/D26711. What do you think? ~Niccolò
> >> Venerandi
> > 
> > Regarding Tuxedo: I bought one 5 years ago or so, and it is a good
> > machine.
> > But "They provide you with self-programmed driver packages, support,
> > installation scripts and everything around our hardware, so that every
> > hardware component really works. "
> > At least back then, this was not the case, no custom drivers, the
> > fingerprint scanner on the laptop does not work.
> 
> Did it work on (say) Microsoft Windows?

I don't know.
 
> In any case, this claim comes straight from Tuxedo's website.
> 
> > And maybe "They provide custom" instead of "They provide you with self-
> > programmed" ?
> 
> I was going to write the same, but refrained, because in fact this
> brings more questions than it answers:
> 
>  1. Who has verified vendor claims before copying them? The one quoted
> by Alexander hasn't even been adapted to our viewpoint.
>  2. What comes on these PC-s? Vendor-specific GNU/Linux distributions?

It seemed to be a normal OpenSUSE installation (you can choose between a few 
distros, that's nice).

Alex

Re: Tuxedo's house (Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage)

[Jack]

On 1/26/20 11:51 AM, Philippe Cloutier wrote:

Hi Ingo, Nate,

Le 2020-01-26 à 11:21, Nate Graham a écrit :

On 1/26/20 9:16 AM, Ingo Klöcker wrote:

On Freitag, 24. Januar 2020 15:02:24 CET Philippe Cloutier wrote:
Ahem, wasn't that fast? The mail you quote is not phrased as a 
proposal,
but as a request for comments. Just a quick first look reveals at 
least

the following issues:

The currency units used are unclear.


Tuxedo build tailor-made hardware and all this with Linux!


I suppose s/build/builds/

All the computers and notebooks are assembled and installed in our 
house.


"our house"?


"in our house" means in the house/building were Tuxedo Computers 
resides. As
opposed to "are assembled and installed in a sweat shop in some 
cheap-labor-

country".


Ah, English is not my native language, but that was certainly based on 
the English expression "in house", documented on 
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/in_house


Thank you

To avoid confusion, you might say " made in-house by Tuxedo, not 
outsourced." or to be more specific and informative, "made in-house by 
Tuxedo in (country), not outsourced."


Jack





Regards,
Ingo



since the text is on KDE.org, using the word "our" makes it unclear 
whose house the laptop is being assembled in though. KDE's house?



Indeed




It should probably say, "[...] assembled and installed in-house." Or 
even, "[...] assembled and installed in-house, not outsourced." to 
really drive the point home.



Indeed. Some more remarks on that sentence:

 1. "the computers and notebooks" sounds odd (unless Tuxedo assembles
paper notebooks).
 2. It is strange to dedicate 1 sentence out of 5 to this topic. I mean:
 1. Is assembly and installation even a significant part of the
work involved in building a PC?
 2. Unless we add content describing the enterprise, readers won't
even know what Tuxedo is and have any idea what are its labor
conditions.
 3. "installing a computer in a house" sounds like me bringing a
computer to my friend's house and plugging in the power and all
the other wires. I imagine what was intended was "installing
software on a computer".




[...]

Nate


--
Philippe Cloutier
http://www.philippecloutier.com

Tuxedo's house (Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage)

[Philippe Cloutier]

Hi Ingo, Nate,

Le 2020-01-26 à 11:21, Nate Graham a écrit :

On 1/26/20 9:16 AM, Ingo Klöcker wrote:

On Freitag, 24. Januar 2020 15:02:24 CET Philippe Cloutier wrote:
Ahem, wasn't that fast? The mail you quote is not phrased as a 
proposal,

but as a request for comments. Just a quick first look reveals at least
the following issues:

The currency units used are unclear.


Tuxedo build tailor-made hardware and all this with Linux!


I suppose s/build/builds/

All the computers and notebooks are assembled and installed in our 
house.


"our house"?


"in our house" means in the house/building were Tuxedo Computers 
resides. As
opposed to "are assembled and installed in a sweat shop in some 
cheap-labor-

country".



Ah, English is not my native language, but that was certainly based on 
the English expression "in house", documented on 
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/in_house


Thank you




Regards,
Ingo



since the text is on KDE.org, using the word "our" makes it unclear 
whose house the laptop is being assembled in though. KDE's house?



Indeed




It should probably say, "[...] assembled and installed in-house." Or 
even, "[...] assembled and installed in-house, not outsourced." to 
really drive the point home.



Indeed. Some more remarks on that sentence:

1. "the computers and notebooks" sounds odd (unless Tuxedo assembles
   paper notebooks).
2. It is strange to dedicate 1 sentence out of 5 to this topic. I mean:
1. Is assembly and installation even a significant part of the work
   involved in building a PC?
2. Unless we add content describing the enterprise, readers won't
   even know what Tuxedo is and have any idea what are its labor
   conditions.
3. "installing a computer in a house" sounds like me bringing a
   computer to my friend's house and plugging in the power and all the
   other wires. I imagine what was intended was "installing software on
   a computer".




[...]

Nate


--
Philippe Cloutier
http://www.philippecloutier.com

Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage

[Nate Graham]

On 1/26/20 9:16 AM, Ingo Klöcker wrote:

On Freitag, 24. Januar 2020 15:02:24 CET Philippe Cloutier wrote:

Ahem, wasn't that fast? The mail you quote is not phrased as a proposal,
but as a request for comments. Just a quick first look reveals at least
the following issues:

The currency units used are unclear.


Tuxedo build tailor-made hardware and all this with Linux!


I suppose s/build/builds/


All the computers and notebooks are assembled and installed in our house.


"our house"?


"in our house" means in the house/building were Tuxedo Computers resides. As
opposed to "are assembled and installed in a sweat shop in some cheap-labor-
country".

Regards,
Ingo



since the text is on KDE.org, using the word "our" makes it unclear 
whose house the laptop is being assembled in though. KDE's house?


It should probably say, "[...] assembled and installed in-house." Or 
even, "[...] assembled and installed in-house, not outsourced." to 
really drive the point home.


Sorry for not catching this during the patch review.

Nate

Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage

[Ingo Klöcker]

On Freitag, 24. Januar 2020 15:02:24 CET Philippe Cloutier wrote:
> Ahem, wasn't that fast? The mail you quote is not phrased as a proposal,
> but as a request for comments. Just a quick first look reveals at least
> the following issues:
> 
> The currency units used are unclear.
> 
> > Tuxedo build tailor-made hardware and all this with Linux!
> 
> I suppose s/build/builds/
> 
> > All the computers and notebooks are assembled and installed in our house.
> 
> "our house"?

"in our house" means in the house/building were Tuxedo Computers resides. As 
opposed to "are assembled and installed in a sweat shop in some cheap-labor-
country".

Regards,
Ingo


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Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage

[Johan Ouwerkerk]

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Niccolò Venerandi
 wrote:
>
> Hi!
> I'm working on adding a kde.org/hardware webpage. You can see screenshot 
> here: https://phabricator.kde.org/D26711. What do you think?
> ~Niccolò Venerandi

I think that there may be two different product categories:

 - Hackable/evaluation/hobbyist hardware
 - General purpose hardware "product"

Do we want to highlight this? I.e. point people to something like
PinePhone dev kits if they become available with Plasma Mobile in
mind?
Also I think that the Pinebook is right on the dividing line between
the two categories as it were: depending on your perspective it is
either a product or your a cheap dev kit to hack on Pine hardware.

Regards,

-Johan

Re: Tuxedo and reliability (Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage)

[Johan Ouwerkerk]

On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 3:11 PM Philippe Cloutier  wrote:
> I was going to write the same, but refrained, because in fact this brings 
> more questions than it answers:
>
> Who has verified vendor claims before copying them? The one quoted by 
> Alexander hasn't even been adapted to our viewpoint.
> What comes on these PC-s? Vendor-specific GNU/Linux distributions?
> Do we have a process to prevent this page from going outdated? At least items 
> #1, #3 and #5 are presented in a highly time-sensitive way. Without frequent 
> review, this will quickly reflect poorly not just on KDE, but on vendors.
>
> And how do you plan to integrate that page in kde.org?
>

Well the overriding question here is how do we position the content.
Is this hardware endorsed by KDE or is this a shout out to these
companies that ship things on which you should be able to run KDE
happily without hassle.

I think the first approach is doomed to obsolescence and
misinterpretation of what "endorsed" means in terms of day to day
issues. E.g.: all well and good to have a laptop with high end
graphics, but these days that typically means Nvidia which is right
pain in the neck and unlikely to hit the "just works" sweet spot.

On the other hand, Nate is right: closing the loop matters. For that
matter, it's not just newbies who would benefit: I can see myself
browsing that page when buying new hardware. :)

So I would personally prefer this page being rewritten as a series of
"shout outs" to companies who are doing good or at least better than
average, highlighting why we think they are a good outfit to do
business with but ignoring their pet product of the quarter entirely.
Also, if this is going to be a kde.org page then maybe we want to cut
out the textual smilies :)

Regards,

- Johan

Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage

[Paul Brown]

On jueves, 23 de enero de 2020 15:52:30 (CET) Jens wrote:
> Nice!
> 
> One suggestion is emailing the different companies about this webpage and
> ask them if they have preferred photos with [RESOLUTION NxN] that they want
> to provide. I mean if they are happy with the image they'll say as much
> (hopefully) if not: Free Imagery for our webpage!
> 
> And it would also in a sort of gracious way say "oh we have links to your
> hardware here hint hint" :)
> 
> /Jens

This is an excellent suggestion and may lead to  getting a link back in the 
process.

Cheers

Paul
-- 
Promotion & Communication

www: http://kde.org
Mastodon: https://mastodon.technology/@kde
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kde/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdecommunity
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kde

Tuxedo and reliability (Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage)

[Philippe Cloutier]

Le 2020-01-25 à 02:47, Alexander Neundorf a écrit :

On Donnerstag, 23. Januar 2020 15:42:15 CET Niccolò Venerandi wrote:

Hi!
I'm working on adding a kde.org/hardware webpage. You can see screenshot
here: https://phabricator.kde.org/D26711. What do you think? ~Niccolò
Venerandi

Regarding Tuxedo: I bought one 5 years ago or so, and it is a good machine.
But "They provide you with self-programmed driver packages, support,
installation scripts and everything around our hardware, so that every
hardware component really works. "
At least back then, this was not the case, no custom drivers, the fingerprint
scanner on the laptop does not work.



Did it work on (say) Microsoft Windows?

In any case, this claim comes straight from Tuxedo's website.



And maybe "They provide custom" instead of "They provide you with self-
programmed" ?



I was going to write the same, but refrained, because in fact this 
brings more questions than it answers:


1. Who has verified vendor claims before copying them? The one quoted
   by Alexander hasn't even been adapted to our viewpoint.
2. What comes on these PC-s? Vendor-specific GNU/Linux distributions?
3. Do we have a process to prevent this page from going outdated? At
   least items #1, #3 and #5 are presented in a highly time-sensitive
   way. Without frequent review, this will quickly reflect poorly not
   just on KDE, but on vendors.

And how do you plan to integrate that page in kde.org?




Alex





--
Philippe Cloutier
http://www.philippecloutier.com

Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage

[Alexander Neundorf]

On Donnerstag, 23. Januar 2020 15:42:15 CET Niccolò Venerandi wrote:
> Hi!
> I'm working on adding a kde.org/hardware webpage. You can see screenshot
> here: https://phabricator.kde.org/D26711. What do you think? ~Niccolò
> Venerandi

Regarding Tuxedo: I bought one 5 years ago or so, and it is a good machine.
But "They provide you with self-programmed driver packages, support, 
installation scripts and everything around our hardware, so that every 
hardware component really works. "
At least back then, this was not the case, no custom drivers, the fingerprint 
scanner on the laptop does not work.
And maybe "They provide custom" instead of "They provide you with self-
programmed" ?

Alex

Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage

[Philippe Cloutier]

Ahem, wasn't that fast? The mail you quote is not phrased as a proposal, 
but as a request for comments. Just a quick first look reveals at least 
the following issues:


The currency units used are unclear.



Tuxedo build tailor-made hardware and all this with Linux!


I suppose s/build/builds/



All the computers and notebooks are assembled and installed in our house.


"our house"?

Le 2020-01-24 à 07:26, Carl Schwan a écrit :

Hi,
since there wasn't any opposition, I now landed this patch on behalf 
of Niccolo. Great work!

Check it out at: https://kde.org/hardware
Cheers,
Carl


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
Le jeudi, janvier 23, 2020 2:42 PM, Niccolò Venerandi 
 a écrit :



Hi!
I'm working on adding a kde.org/hardware  
webpage. You can see screenshot here: 
https://phabricator.kde.org/D26711. What do you think?

~Niccolò Venerandi



--
Philippe Cloutier
http://www.philippecloutier.com

Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage

[Jens]

Spotted an issue on darkmode where the "Partnership with KDE" bit disappears 
(as its dark grey and doesn't shift between dark/light variant)

Otherwise, awesome!

On fredag 24 januari 2020 kl. 13:26:41 CET Carl Schwan wrote:
> Hi,
> since there wasn't any opposition, I now landed this patch on behalf of
> Niccolo. Great work! Check it out at: https://kde.org/hardware
> Cheers,
> Carl
> 
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> 
> Le jeudi, janvier 23, 2020 2:42 PM, Niccolò Venerandi 
 a écrit :
> > Hi!
> > I'm working on adding a kde.org/hardware webpage. You can see screenshot
> > here: https://phabricator.kde.org/D26711. What do you think? ~Niccolò
> > Venerandi

Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage

[Carl Schwan]

Hi,
since there wasn't any opposition, I now landed this patch on behalf of 
Niccolo. Great work!
Check it out at: https://kde.org/hardware
Cheers,
Carl

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
Le jeudi, janvier 23, 2020 2:42 PM, Niccolò Venerandi 
 a écrit :

> Hi!
> I'm working on adding a kde.org/hardware webpage. You can see screenshot 
> here: https://phabricator.kde.org/D26711. What do you think?
> ~Niccolò Venerandi

publickey - carl@carlschwan.eu - 0x7F564CB5.asc
Description: application/pgp-keys


signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage

[Vinzenz Vietzke]

Hi,

I second that. We at TUXEDO really appreciate this effort and are well 
aware of the advertising factor!



Just let me know what pictures you need and what sizes, file formats etc.


Cheers,
vinz.

Am 23. Januar 2020 15:52:45 schrieb Jens :


Nice!

One suggestion is emailing the different companies about this webpage and ask
them if they have preferred photos with [RESOLUTION NxN] that they want to
provide. I mean if they are happy with the image they'll say as much
(hopefully) if not: Free Imagery for our webpage!

And it would also in a sort of gracious way say "oh we have links to your
hardware here hint hint" :)

/Jens

On torsdag 23 januari 2020 kl. 15:42:15 CET Niccolò Venerandi wrote:

Hi!
I'm working on adding a kde.org/hardware webpage. You can see screenshot
here: https://phabricator.kde.org/D26711. What do you think? ~Niccolò
Venerandi

Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage

[Jens]

Nice! 

One suggestion is emailing the different companies about this webpage and ask 
them if they have preferred photos with [RESOLUTION NxN] that they want to 
provide. I mean if they are happy with the image they'll say as much 
(hopefully) if not: Free Imagery for our webpage!

And it would also in a sort of gracious way say "oh we have links to your 
hardware here hint hint" :)

/Jens

On torsdag 23 januari 2020 kl. 15:42:15 CET Niccolò Venerandi wrote:
> Hi!
> I'm working on adding a kde.org/hardware webpage. You can see screenshot
> here: https://phabricator.kde.org/D26711. What do you think? ~Niccolò
> Venerandi

Re: New kde.org/hardware webpage

[Nate Graham]

I think it's fantastic! This is just what we need to close the loop for 
less-technical users who visit the webpage and want to know how they can 
get Plasma.


Nate


On 1/23/20 7:42 AM, Niccolò Venerandi wrote:

Hi!
I'm working on adding a kde.org/hardware  
webpage. You can see screenshot here: 
https://phabricator.kde.org/D26711. What do you think?

~Niccolò Venerandi