Re: vote invitation sent out for goal voting

[Lydia Pintscher]

On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:27 PM Jens  wrote:
> My assumption was that they where focus points for a set time period. A sort
> of "lets do this!" kind of thing where the "lets" and "this" was varying in
> style and format.
>
> Sure some kinda slipped under the radar, but for the vast majority its just
> not possible to invest the time needed to make a proper blip. That said, what
> would be amazingly interesting would be some kind of report of how the people
> who held the task felt it went, what we can learn from each others projects
> and tasks, and see what can be taken from them.

Yes absolutely. We will dedicate most of the first half of day one's
program at Akademy to this exclusively. I will also work with promo to
get something written up for the dot or so.

> I mean what we know is that reporting, as in a constant recurring blog has
> worked wonders for Nate's Polish & Improve task - perhaps we could look at how
> we can improve the reporting of these tasks in general to mimic that success?
>
> Could this be a task in itself? Like a low-level task for people who want to
> contribute but have little time? Like "Talk to Devs and others in the task and
> then write a blog post each/each other week"? It doesn't take a lot of deep
> technical skill, requires some good communication and connection with devs etc
> but beyond that - hammer out some words, some screenshots if needed?

Institutionalising this more for the next ones sounds great. It would
be helpful for example to assign a "reporter in charge" to each new
goal, maybe ideally someone else than the leader of the goal even to
take off that part of the workload. If someone would be up for this
let's talk and figure out the details.


Cheers
Lydia

-- 
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
KDE e.V. Board of Directors
http://kde.org - http://open-advice.org

Re: vote invitation sent out for goal voting

[Jack]

On 2019.08.23 00:24, Nicolás Alvarez wrote:

El jue., 22 de ago. de 2019 a la(s) 22:13, Myriam Schweingruber
(myr...@kde.org) escribió:
> Any particular reason I got this survey request twice? That gives  
me technically two votes, so there might be something wrong,  
especially if I am not the only one who got this twice.


Did you get them on the same email address? Lydia sent it to all
developers and all mailing list subscribers. Maybe your developer
account and your mailing list subscription have different addresses,
so you got one on each.

--
Nicolás

I also got two sent to the same address.  Near as I can tell, they are  
identical except for the token to the survey.


Jack

Re: vote invitation sent out for goal voting

[Jens]

My assumption was that they where focus points for a set time period. A sort 
of "lets do this!" kind of thing where the "lets" and "this" was varying in 
style and format. 

Sure some kinda slipped under the radar, but for the vast majority its just 
not possible to invest the time needed to make a proper blip. That said, what 
would be amazingly interesting would be some kind of report of how the people 
who held the task felt it went, what we can learn from each others projects 
and tasks, and see what can be taken from them.

I mean what we know is that reporting, as in a constant recurring blog has 
worked wonders for Nate's Polish & Improve task - perhaps we could look at how 
we can improve the reporting of these tasks in general to mimic that success? 

Could this be a task in itself? Like a low-level task for people who want to 
contribute but have little time? Like "Talk to Devs and others in the task and 
then write a blog post each/each other week"? It doesn't take a lot of deep 
technical skill, requires some good communication and connection with devs etc 
but beyond that - hammer out some words, some screenshots if needed? 

/Jens

On fredag 23 augusti 2019 kl. 11:45:49 CEST Adriaan de Groot wrote:
> On Friday, 23 August 2019 09:13:11 CEST Kai Uwe Broulik wrote:
> > > Sorry, these all are... Irrelevant, incomprehensible, ineligible or
> > > inconsiderable.
> > 
> > Care to explain why you think that is?
> 
> (Not intending to put words in Boud's mouth here, and trying not to opine on
> any specific goal-proposal)
> 
> Well, there are 11 "goals", which vary greatly in detail, scope, and
> internal consistency. The original three goals were relatively high-level;
> it's possible to find a spot for yourself in working towards the goal,
> regardless of your specific skill-set. Some of the new proposals are ..
> well, suitable if you're a specific kind of technical programmer but very
> difficult to get behind if you're not in that specific class.
> 
> At least one proposal is such a "do all the things" grab-bag that it's hard
> to figure out what the propsal actually **wants**.
> 
> Of the 11 proposals, I found four I would call "goals" at a level of
> abstraction suitable for putting to the global community, a handful that are
> cool sub-projects, and a couple of "lol wut"s.
> 
> So I voted (once, although I got two invites to the same KDE address) by
> shuffling things mostly by "this isn't a viable goal" at the bottom.
> 
> > > Besides, the previous set of goals has not been achieved by a country
> > > mile.
> > 
> > Ignoring the fact that this isn't a SI unit, this is just not true.
> 
> No, no, Country Mile is a beer store in New Hampshire, USA. The proprietor
> of the store has not achieved the KDE goals. That's understandable, maybe
> we should have reached out to them.
> 
> 
> 
> This does underscore a philosophical question: the goals were set and voted
> into existence on the understanding that we (grand we, the KDE community)
> would work towards those goals for a few years. I don't think there was a
> "until the goals are achieved" implied; and neither does the end-of-term of
> a goal imply that it is achieved or not-to-be-worked-on-anymore.
> 
> FWIW, there are **new** goal proposals which can all be seen as spiritual
> successors to the original three goals. So for the "not achieved and we need
> to keep on towards the original ones" vote, there **are** selections that
> can be made.
> 
> [ade]

Re: vote invitation sent out for goal voting

[Adriaan de Groot]

On Friday, 23 August 2019 09:13:11 CEST Kai Uwe Broulik wrote:
> > Sorry, these all are... Irrelevant, incomprehensible, ineligible or
> > inconsiderable.
> Care to explain why you think that is?

(Not intending to put words in Boud's mouth here, and trying not to opine on 
any specific goal-proposal)

Well, there are 11 "goals", which vary greatly in detail, scope, and internal 
consistency. The original three goals were relatively high-level; it's 
possible to find a spot for yourself in working towards the goal, regardless of 
your specific skill-set. Some of the new proposals are .. well, suitable if 
you're a specific kind of technical programmer but very difficult to get behind 
if you're not in that specific class.

At least one proposal is such a "do all the things" grab-bag that it's hard to 
figure out what the propsal actually **wants**.

Of the 11 proposals, I found four I would call "goals" at a level of 
abstraction suitable for putting to the global community, a handful that are 
cool sub-projects, and a couple of "lol wut"s.

So I voted (once, although I got two invites to the same KDE address) by 
shuffling things mostly by "this isn't a viable goal" at the bottom.

> > Besides, the previous set of goals has not been achieved by a country
> > mile.
> 
> Ignoring the fact that this isn't a SI unit, this is just not true.

No, no, Country Mile is a beer store in New Hampshire, USA. The proprietor of 
the store has not achieved the KDE goals. That's understandable, maybe we 
should have reached out to them.



This does underscore a philosophical question: the goals were set and voted 
into existence on the understanding that we (grand we, the KDE community) 
would work towards those goals for a few years. I don't think there was a 
"until the goals are achieved" implied; and neither does the end-of-term of a 
goal imply that it is achieved or not-to-be-worked-on-anymore.

FWIW, there are **new** goal proposals which can all be seen as spiritual 
successors to the original three goals. So for the "not achieved and we need 
to keep on towards the original ones" vote, there **are** selections that can 
be made.

[ade]

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Re: vote invitation sent out for goal voting

[Kai Uwe Broulik]

Hi,


Sorry, these all are... Irrelevant, incomprehensible, ineligible or 
inconsiderable.


Care to explain why you think that is?


Besides, the previous set of goals has not been achieved by a country mile.


Ignoring the fact that this isn't a SI unit, this is just not true. For 
instance, our tooling and documentation has been improved a lot as a 
result of the streamlined. Before, when a new person joined the channel 
asking for help on a problem or what they could do to fix something, you 
had to talk them through git and cmake and everything manually. Now you 
can just send them a link which has all the information they need.


Sure, we might not have achieved world domination, but claiming that the 
goals weren't achieved at all does a disservice to all the fine folks 
involved in the process.


Cheers
Kai Uwe

Re: vote invitation sent out for goal voting

[Nicolás Alvarez]

El jue., 22 de ago. de 2019 a la(s) 22:13, Myriam Schweingruber
(myr...@kde.org) escribió:
> Any particular reason I got this survey request twice? That gives me 
> technically two votes, so there might be something wrong, especially if I am 
> not the only one who got this twice.

Did you get them on the same email address? Lydia sent it to all
developers and all mailing list subscribers. Maybe your developer
account and your mailing list subscription have different addresses,
so you got one on each.

--
Nicolás

Re: vote invitation sent out for goal voting

[Myriam Schweingruber]

Hi all,


On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 00:18, Lydia Pintscher  wrote:

Any particular reason I got this survey request twice? That gives me
technically two votes, so there might be something wrong, especially if I
am not the only one who got this twice.

Also: it says we have to choose at least 10 items (out of 11), then you
can't conclude without actually selecting all of them. What kind of vote is
that if I can't just ignore some of them? Why not actually making a
Condorcet ballot to ensure it has some real meaning?

So much for the technical side of that vote, but:

This might be my Swiss side, but I am not really happy with this kind of
"voting". Who chose the questions? Why not making a ballot for the
questions first?

I have seen simple mails from Lydia and Neophytos about setting new goals
with links to blogs I had already read on the Planet, reading diagonally
and actually missing the participation link, but we were not reminded to
take this more seriously and participate actively, especially since the
last time we set ourselves some goals we didn't exactly reach them to say
the least. Last time all KDE project mailing lists were asked to
participate, did I miss some mails? With busy schedules on all active
projects, community list only mails are not necessarily high priority for
many.

I for myself have pushed the re-reading of all this since June, and
suddenly it's August and we are supposed to decide about something that has
only just started, and this in a period of the year where we are either
extremely busy or already on a holiday (might vary in other regions).

I am pretty sure that many simply have not been aware about this, and
judging from Bouds reaction he is as surprised as I am about the goal set.

Regards, Myriam
-- 
Proud member of the Amarok and KDE Community
Protect your freedom and support the work of the FSFE:
http://www.fsfe.org

Please don't send me proprietary file formats,
use ISO standard ODF instead (ISO/IEC 26300)

Re: vote invitation sent out for goal voting

[Lydia Pintscher]

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:31 PM Alexander Potashev
 wrote:
> Thank you Lydia!
>
> What is the deadline for the "ballot" to be considered/counted?

Hi Alexander,

The survey is set to close at  03.09.2019 23:59 and I assume this is UTC.
I will send a reminder to those who have not voted a few days before
the deadline.

Cheers
Lydia

-- 
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
KDE e.V. Board of Directors
http://kde.org - http://open-advice.org

Re: vote invitation sent out for goal voting

[Alexander Potashev]

Thank you Lydia!

What is the deadline for the "ballot" to be considered/counted?

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 22:42 Lydia Pintscher  wrote:

> Hey folks,
>
> I have just sent out the emails with links to this year's goal survey.
> All the final proposals are here:
> https://phabricator.kde.org/tag/goal_setting_2019/
> The invitation went out to everyone subscribed to this mailinglist as
> well as everyone with a developer account. If you did not receive it
> but are an active contributor to KDE please send me an email off-list
> to sort it out.
> I'm really sorry that it has taken me longer than I wanted. I ran into
> a few obstacles setting everything up during a conference.
>
>
> Cheers
> Lydia
>
> --
> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> KDE e.V. Board of Directors
> http://kde.org - http://open-advice.org
>

Re: vote invitation sent out for goal voting

[Clemens Toennies]

Hi,

it feels a bit weird to have to choose 10+ answers. 1-3 minimum should be
viable, to not skew results in some form imo.

Greetings, Clemens.

Re: vote invitation sent out for goal voting

[Nate Graham]

Thanks very much, Lydia, for coordinating this process and making it happen!

I think these goals are fantastic, and I found voting to be somewhat 
challenging because of just how many of them made me feel excited. I 
think the KDE community will be well-served by focusing on whichever 
ones get chosen.


Nate

Re: vote invitation sent out for goal voting

[Nate Graham]

On 8/22/19 2:28 PM, Boudewijn Rempt wrote:

Sorry, these all are... Irrelevant, incomprehensible, ineligible or inconsiderable. 
Besides, the previous set of goals has not been achieved by a country mile. There is 
nothing whatsoever in this set of "goals" that I could get behind even 
tangentially.


Well, when you don't participate in the process, it might not produce 
the results you like. At this point I guess you can protest by not 
voting and ignoring whichever goals get chosen.


Nate

Re: vote invitation sent out for goal voting

[Boudewijn Rempt]

On donderdag 22 augustus 2019 21:36:30 CEST Lydia Pintscher wrote:
> Hey folks,
> 
> I have just sent out the emails with links to this year's goal survey.
> All the final proposals are here:
> https://phabricator.kde.org/tag/goal_setting_2019/
> The invitation went out to everyone subscribed to this mailinglist as
> well as everyone with a developer account. If you did not receive it
> but are an active contributor to KDE please send me an email off-list
> to sort it out.
> I'm really sorry that it has taken me longer than I wanted. I ran into
> a few obstacles setting everything up during a conference.
> 

Sorry, these all are... Irrelevant, incomprehensible, ineligible or 
inconsiderable. Besides, the previous set of goals has not been achieved by a 
country mile. There is nothing whatsoever in this set of "goals" that I could 
get behind even tangentially.
 

-- 
https://www.valdyas.org | https://www.krita.org

vote invitation sent out for goal voting

[Lydia Pintscher]

Hey folks,

I have just sent out the emails with links to this year's goal survey.
All the final proposals are here:
https://phabricator.kde.org/tag/goal_setting_2019/
The invitation went out to everyone subscribed to this mailinglist as
well as everyone with a developer account. If you did not receive it
but are an active contributor to KDE please send me an email off-list
to sort it out.
I'm really sorry that it has taken me longer than I wanted. I ran into
a few obstacles setting everything up during a conference.


Cheers
Lydia

-- 
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
KDE e.V. Board of Directors
http://kde.org - http://open-advice.org