Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

2018-04-15 Thread Jean-Baptiste Faure 

Le 14/04/2018 à 10:19, Wols Lists a écrit :

[...]
I had a look at gerrit and couldn't make sense of it, but IFF that
string is visible to end users, the missing space is an error.
Punctuation should always be followed by a space.

If, however, it's internal to LO code, I'd be inclined to agree with
you, code doesn't have spaces :-)


Here, semicolon is not punctuation, it is a separator.
Space or not space before or after semicolon is not the problem, help 
works equally well with and without space in  ... 
 fields.
The problem is changing something, adding a space or removing one in 
these fields because each change make the string to be translated again 
without any visible effect. And translators have better to do. ;-)


Best regards.
JBF

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

2018-04-14 Thread Wols Lists 
On 07/04/18 22:11, Martin Srebotnjak wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> just one example from Gerrit 4 hours ago:
> "vector graphics;converting bitmaps"
> was changed to:
> "vector graphics; converting bitmaps"
> See:
> https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/52546/2/source/text/simpress/guide/vectorize.xhp
> 
> Is that "missing space" an error? Not. What does this change cause? It
> causes 100+ translations of that string obsolete, fuzzy, untranslated,
> not shown in builds ... And 100+ localizers must again localize, check,
> edit this same string ...
> 
> Is this kind of editing/"cleaning-up" of help really useful/desired? Not.

I had a look at gerrit and couldn't make sense of it, but IFF that
string is visible to end users, the missing space is an error.
Punctuation should always be followed by a space.

If, however, it's internal to LO code, I'd be inclined to agree with
you, code doesn't have spaces :-)

Cheers,
Wol
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Fwd: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

2018-04-08 Thread Sophia Schröder 



 Originalnachricht 
Betreff: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be 
edited directly in gerrit.

Datum: 08.04.2018 13:30
Von: Sophia Schröder <sophia.schroe...@libreoffice.org>
An: Martin Srebotnjak <mi...@filmsi.net>
Kopie: LibreOffice-l10n <l...@global.libreoffice.org>, 
martin.srebotn...@gmail.com


Am 08.04.2018 12:14, schrieb Martin Srebotnjak:

Well, the double spaces problem ...
I have removed all occurences in the Slovenian help, and now I will be
forced to go through that again manually ... L10n teams/languages do 
not
have same errors, see, and this way we are spending time on things that 
we

might have fixed long ago ...

Besides the fuzzy mark gettext should obviously be extended with a
"source-string-changed-but-it-might-not-affect-your-existing-translation-because-it-was-a-minor-edit"
tag which should not lead to untranslated status of the string in code 
and
the existing translation should be pulled from git as still a valid 
one.


This tag could be called in short "check-translation" or
"minor-source-change" or something similar.


This were the best solution, yes.

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Fwd: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

2018-04-08 Thread Sophia Schröder 



 Originalnachricht 
Betreff: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be 
edited directly in gerrit.

Datum: 08.04.2018 13:52
Von: Sophie Gautier <gautier.sop...@gmail.com>
An: Olivier Hallot <olivier.hal...@libreoffice.org>
Kopie: LibreOffice-l10n <l...@global.libreoffice.org>

Hi,

Le dim. 8 avr. 2018 à 04:20, Olivier Hallot 
<olivier.hal...@libreoffice.org>

a écrit :


Hello Sophia

Glad you and others liked it.

The Foundation Manifesto includes "to an open and transparent
peer-reviewed software development process where technical excellence 
is

valued"

TDF will not spare efforts to appreciate all contributions by the
community. Lowering barriers to code contributions is critical to the
Foundation mission.



Breaking others work like builds and translation workflow is not what
exactly TDF values I hope...



And thanks for the patches. Much needed. All of them being reviewed and
tested by committers.



Patches adding spaces in a string for an index? Again I don't see how
adding a lot of work for contributors will help them to contribute. 
There
are a lot of typo in the new help content that should be corrected 
before
and not just pushed as is, expecting to be corrected by translators. 
Asking
more and more to them will just push them away as it's already the case 
for
several languages. Sorry but I'm really not happy by this dangerous 
move,

consequences are too high for the moment.
Cheers
Sophie



Kind regards
Olivier

Em 07/04/2018 16:04, Sophia Schröder escreveu:
> These are great news! Love it!
>
> Exactly what I was asking about a day before in one of our IRC channels,
> b/c I was clueless about how to use gerrit properly.
>
> I uses the opportunity to commit my first patches (only whitespace
> cleanups for now)
> to gerrit in time of our Hackfest / German Community Meeting in Hamburg.
> So yes, it works! :-D
>
> What would be really really good were a) a review of course and b) an
> jenkins/ci buildbot for help
> for mistakenly merge patches which break master or branches in cases of
> backport.
>
> Am 06.04.2018 um 03:15 schrieb Olivier Hallot:
>> Hi L10N Community! Breaking news!
>>
>> Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit, all editions done in your
>> browser.
>>
>> This means that edition of textual XML is possible with automatic
>> generation of a patch submitted to gerrit. Therefore, English source
>> help files can be edited or corrected directly in master and with
>> security and peer review provided by TDF security infra.  Such
>> capability will be extremely handy for ad-hoc correction of typos and
>> linguistic mistakes we often do in English, as the LibreOffice project
>> is developed by many non-English native speakers.
>>
>> This capacity will let help writers a direct access to patching without
>> having to download and build LibreOffice and its help. Although the Help
>> XML knowledge is still need to correctly write a help page, some of our
>> skilled NL leaders and translators can now fix typos directly, without
>> passing by the lengthy process of reporting typos, building help and
>> more.
>>
>> Please see a tutorial on editing help source files in our wiki page:
>>
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/GerritEditing
>>
>> Happy help page fixing !
>>
>> Cheers
>

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

2018-04-08 Thread Kaganski Mike 
On 4/8/2018 12:35 PM, Sophia Schröder wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> it causes visual glitches, like comma faults, at least in the old help 
> system.
> 
> So yes, I think so.
> 
> Assuming the most translation were done already correctly
> it is also an opportunity to review own translations.
> 
> Otherwise there are just 2 clicks, no?
> 
> And it is not a long where it may "disturb" translators.
> Once it is done, it is done. Except new strings of course.
> 
> And there don't come in a big bunch and I am also testing in the moment,
> which are the best practices to get rid of some failures
> and to make our help system and files more consistent.
> I have no problems with abandoning my patches for good reasons.
> 
> It is a learning process for me too.

+1 from me, Sophia.
The best (and the only, I bet) way to avoid issues like that is to do 
nothing at all.

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

2018-04-08 Thread Martin Srebotnjak 
Hi, Sophia,

I do not see these glitches in LibreOffice help. Can you send me a
screenshot?

Thanks, m.

2018-04-08 11:35 GMT+02:00 Sophia Schröder :

> Hi,
>
> it causes visual glitches, like comma faults, at least in the old help
> system.
>
> So yes, I think so.
>
> Assuming the most translation were done already correctly
> it is also an opportunity to review own translations.
>
> Otherwise there are just 2 clicks, no?
>
> And it is not a long where it may "disturb" translators.
> Once it is done, it is done. Except new strings of course.
>
> And there don't come in a big bunch and I am also testing in the moment,
> which are the best practices to get rid of some failures
> and to make our help system and files more consistent.
> I have no problems with abandoning my patches for good reasons.
>
> It is a learning process for me too.
>
> Am 07.04.2018 um 23:11 schrieb Martin Srebotnjak:
>
> Hi,
>
> just one example from Gerrit 4 hours ago:
> "vector graphics;converting bitmaps"
> was changed to:
> "vector graphics; converting bitmaps"
> See: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/52546/2/source/text/
> simpress/guide/vectorize.xhp
>
> Is that "missing space" an error? Not. What does this change cause? It
> causes 100+ translations of that string obsolete, fuzzy, untranslated, not
> shown in builds ... And 100+ localizers must again localize, check, edit
> this same string ...
>
> Is this kind of editing/"cleaning-up" of help really useful/desired? Not.
>
> Lp, m.
>
> 2018-04-07 22:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Srebotnjak :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> And now the Babilon tower is open to all ...
>>
>> For years I was asking for a kind of a review process for all new strings
>> in UI/help and for the editing process. So someone overlooks all the
>> changes going in and stops the ones that seem unfit (in langague or
>> technical sense), thus reducing the repetitive editing of same strings.
>>
>> Instead, now there is a possibility to edit everything even more
>> "easily", with even less thinking about it before it is done.
>>
>> So now we might see a surge in help changes that make many l10n projects
>> quite vulnerable, and most probably several edits of same strings in a row
>> (a documenter reminding oneself that another thing should be added or
>> changed or edited, after it is already featured in git).
>>
>> Hopefully, this function is limited to master, because if this is
>> available in "stable" versions, this will lead to havoc ...
>>
>> Lp, m.
>>
>
>
> --
> Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>
> Sophia Schröder
> ---
> German Language Team
> LibreOffice.org
> IRC: SophiaS
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

2018-04-08 Thread Sophia Schröder 

Hi,

it causes visual glitches, like comma faults, at least in the old help 
system.


So yes, I think so.

Assuming the most translation were done already correctly
it is also an opportunity to review own translations.

Otherwise there are just 2 clicks, no?

And it is not a long where it may "disturb" translators.
Once it is done, it is done. Except new strings of course.

And there don't come in a big bunch and I am also testing in the moment,
which are the best practices to get rid of some failures
and to make our help system and files more consistent.
I have no problems with abandoning my patches for good reasons.

It is a learning process for me too.


Am 07.04.2018 um 23:11 schrieb Martin Srebotnjak:

Hi,

just one example from Gerrit 4 hours ago:
"vector graphics;converting bitmaps"
was changed to:
"vector graphics; converting bitmaps"
See: 
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/52546/2/source/text/simpress/guide/vectorize.xhp


Is that "missing space" an error? Not. What does this change cause? It 
causes 100+ translations of that string obsolete, fuzzy, untranslated, 
not shown in builds ... And 100+ localizers must again localize, 
check, edit this same string ...


Is this kind of editing/"cleaning-up" of help really useful/desired? Not.

Lp, m.

2018-04-07 22:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Srebotnjak >:


Hi,

And now the Babilon tower is open to all ...
For years I was asking for a kind of a review process for all new
strings in UI/help and for the editing process. So someone
overlooks all the changes going in and stops the ones that seem
unfit (in langague or technical sense), thus reducing the
repetitive editing of same strings.

Instead, now there is a possibility to edit everything even more
"easily", with even less thinking about it before it is done.

So now we might see a surge in help changes that make many l10n
projects quite vulnerable, and most probably several edits of same
strings in a row (a documenter reminding oneself that another
thing should be added or changed or edited, after it is already
featured in git).

Hopefully, this function is limited to master, because if this is
available in "stable" versions, this will lead to havoc ...

Lp, m.




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---
German Language Team
LibreOffice.org
IRC: SophiaS

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

2018-04-07 Thread Martin Srebotnjak 
Hi,

just one example from Gerrit 4 hours ago:
"vector graphics;converting bitmaps"
was changed to:
"vector graphics; converting bitmaps"
See:
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/52546/2/source/text/simpress/guide/vectorize.xhp

Is that "missing space" an error? Not. What does this change cause? It
causes 100+ translations of that string obsolete, fuzzy, untranslated, not
shown in builds ... And 100+ localizers must again localize, check, edit
this same string ...

Is this kind of editing/"cleaning-up" of help really useful/desired? Not.

Lp, m.

2018-04-07 22:01 GMT+02:00 Martin Srebotnjak :

> Hi,
>
> And now the Babilon tower is open to all ...
>
> For years I was asking for a kind of a review process for all new strings
> in UI/help and for the editing process. So someone overlooks all the
> changes going in and stops the ones that seem unfit (in langague or
> technical sense), thus reducing the repetitive editing of same strings.
>
> Instead, now there is a possibility to edit everything even more "easily",
> with even less thinking about it before it is done.
>
> So now we might see a surge in help changes that make many l10n projects
> quite vulnerable, and most probably several edits of same strings in a row
> (a documenter reminding oneself that another thing should be added or
> changed or edited, after it is already featured in git).
>
> Hopefully, this function is limited to master, because if this is
> available in "stable" versions, this will lead to havoc ...
>
> Lp, m.
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

2018-04-07 Thread Martin Srebotnjak 
Hi,

And now the Babilon tower is open to all ...

For years I was asking for a kind of a review process for all new strings
in UI/help and for the editing process. So someone overlooks all the
changes going in and stops the ones that seem unfit (in langague or
technical sense), thus reducing the repetitive editing of same strings.

Instead, now there is a possibility to edit everything even more "easily",
with even less thinking about it before it is done.

So now we might see a surge in help changes that make many l10n projects
quite vulnerable, and most probably several edits of same strings in a row
(a documenter reminding oneself that another thing should be added or
changed or edited, after it is already featured in git).

Hopefully, this function is limited to master, because if this is available
in "stable" versions, this will lead to havoc ...

Lp, m.
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Breaking News!... Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit.

2018-04-07 Thread Sophia Schröder 

These are great news! Love it!

Exactly what I was asking about a day before in one of our IRC channels,
b/c I was clueless about how to use gerrit properly.

I uses the opportunity to commit my first patches (only whitespace 
cleanups for now)

to gerrit in time of our Hackfest / German Community Meeting in Hamburg.
So yes, it works! :-D

What would be really really good were a) a review of course and b) an 
jenkins/ci buildbot for help
for mistakenly merge patches which break master or branches in cases of 
backport.


Am 06.04.2018 um 03:15 schrieb Olivier Hallot:

Hi L10N Community! Breaking news!

Help pages can be edited directly in gerrit, all editions done in your
browser.

This means that edition of textual XML is possible with automatic
generation of a patch submitted to gerrit. Therefore, English source
help files can be edited or corrected directly in master and with
security and peer review provided by TDF security infra.  Such
capability will be extremely handy for ad-hoc correction of typos and
linguistic mistakes we often do in English, as the LibreOffice project
is developed by many non-English native speakers.

This capacity will let help writers a direct access to patching without
having to download and build LibreOffice and its help. Although the Help
XML knowledge is still need to correctly write a help page, some of our
skilled NL leaders and translators can now fix typos directly, without
passing by the lengthy process of reporting typos, building help and more.

Please see a tutorial on editing help source files in our wiki page:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/GerritEditing

Happy help page fixing !

Cheers


--
Regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Sophia Schröder
---
German Language Team
LibreOffice.org
IRC: SophiaS

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