Re: Scoop (jazz notation)

[Wols Lists]

On 15/05/2024 18:54, Flaming Hakama by Elaine wrote:
On the other hand, you could argue that many examples of scoop are not 
intended to convey specific shapes,
so a one-size-fits-all glyph is sufficient, and it is not intended to 
solve the problem of expressive glissando.


Which, is also a reasonable argument.  There is no reason both cannot exist.


Responding to this, it seems to me that scoops, bends, glissandos etc 
are all the same family of 
articulations/embellishments/call-it-what-you-will. So I'd like to see 
some kind of generic all-encompassing solution.


Han-Wen wrote bends for me, so I was surprised to discover that scoops 
(the same thing in a different place) seem not to have been done at the 
same time / the same way.


My feeling would be can we implement something along similar lines to 
format-box-barnumber and friends.


So we have

\slideBeforeCurve et al, it's called a slide, it's Before or After, it 
can be a Curve, Straight, Jagged, it can be Fall, Rise, Anchored. I'm 
sure other people will be able to think of other things. And then we can 
special-case with shortcuts called \glissando, \bend, and so on.


But as with \format..., back in the 2.2, 2.4 days I kept tripping over 
the fact that the particular mix I wanted hadn't been implemented, and 
then somebody kindly just implemented all possible combinations for me 
(and everybody else). So now whatever you wanted is "just there". (I did 
try to do it myself, I just couldn't grok scheme :-(


If we look at it as "variations on a theme", we can have a simple, 
single implementation that can be tweaked to suit.


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Glissandos into Note

[Wols Lists]

On 14/04/2024 00:22, Wols Lists wrote:

On 13/04/2024 10:34, Lukas-Fabian Moser via LilyPond user discussion wrote:

Hi Ben, hi Greg,

thanks for bringing this up - in fact I started this morning to dig up 
my old work, prompted by Greg's question.


It seems I only developed the functions a but further back then 
(unfortunately I don't have time at the moment to look into it in 
detail) - the difference seems to be that now, bends also avoid Dots. 
See the attached version.



All this was written for me by Han-Wen way back when (in the 2.4 days?).

This feature should be in lilypond somewhere, not sure exactly where 
though.



Found it...

https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.23/Documentation/notation/expressive-marks-as-curves

It's called a doit.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Glissandos into Note

[Wols Lists]

On 13/04/2024 10:34, Lukas-Fabian Moser via LilyPond user discussion wrote:

Hi Ben, hi Greg,

thanks for bringing this up - in fact I started this morning to dig up 
my old work, prompted by Greg's question.


It seems I only developed the functions a but further back then 
(unfortunately I don't have time at the moment to look into it in 
detail) - the difference seems to be that now, bends also avoid Dots. 
See the attached version.



All this was written for me by Han-Wen way back when (in the 2.4 days?).

This feature should be in lilypond somewhere, not sure exactly where though.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Overriding default text of \f, \p, etc.

[Wols Lists]

On 12/04/2024 08:21, YTG 1234 wrote:

Hello List,

I want to override the default text markup used with commands such as 
\f, \p, \mf, etc.


However, trying to define f = #(make-dynamic-script ...) doesn't work 
because Lilypond interprets f as a note-name.


Additionally, how would I be able to change the text while maintaining 
the MIDI effect? I tried using \tweak DynamicText.text but it doesn't 
seem to override the text...


This is my file that defines assorted dynamic markups (it's an old 
lilypond version so I'm sure it can be improved ...


% This contains assorted dynamics functions ...

% dynamic setting - "p - ff"
pthenff = _\markup{ \dynamic p \italic "-" \dynamic ff }

% dynamic setting - "f - p"
fthenp = _\markup{ \dynamic f \italic "-" \dynamic p }

mfthenff = _\markup{ \dynamic mf \italic "-" \dynamic ff }

% this is the correct way to do it ...
sfzp = #(make-dynamic-script "sfzp")
piu-f = #(make-dynamic-script #{ \markup { \normal-text \italic piu f } #})

fzp = _\markup{ \dynamic fzp }
% forzando - piano
ffzp = _\markup{
\dynamic ffzp
}

% sforzandi
sffz = _\markup{ \dynamic sffz }
sfffz = _\markup{ \dynamic sfffz }



moltoff = _\markup{
  \bold \italic molto \dynamic ff
}

piuf = _\markup{
  \bold \italic piu \dynamic f
}


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Installing 2.24.1

[Wols Lists]

On 06/04/2024 22:46, Knute Snortum wrote:
On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 2:23 PM Wol > wrote:



  > The basic procedure is simple, assuming that you are using
  > Frescobaldi:

What if this assumption is wrong? I've NEVER used Frescobaldi (or
rather, the one time I tried I didn't see the point).

Will it work if I "install as administrator" and then tell Windows to
run lilypond when I click on a .ly file?

Is there any reason for expecting me to install an unwanted program, in
order to get a program I do want? Or are you trying to force everybody
to use Frescobaldi? Why?


There is a web page that deals with command-line installation, if that's 
what you want:


https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.24/Documentation/learning/command-line-setup 




Thanks. So basically "yes", I guessed as much.

I just need to re-associate the new version of lilypond with .ly files...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Automatic annotation of slide positions/fingerings for brass instruments.

[Wols Lists]

On 31/10/2023 01:36, Adam M. Griggs wrote:
Your second recommendation is situational. I see you have a *.uk 
email address. I'm familiar with the British brass band context. I get 
it—almost everything is transposed for instruments pitched in Bb or Eb, 
and in the entire ensemble, only bass trombones are notated at concert 
pitch. At this time, however, I'm operating in a concert band 
environment, working with both community and school bands. Our trombone, 
tuba, even euphonium parts are all notated at concert pitch. You are 
completely correct to suggest it, but it depends on the target audience.


And something else :-) I've only met it once, to the best of my 
knowledge, and I think it was American, I've come across a piece - in 
bass clef - and also in Bb !!!


That was a nightmare until I realised what was going on ! :-)

There's always an exception to every rule !

And over here, I think orchestras are always bass/tenor clef, brass 
bands are always Bb (or tenor clef, especially "brass and reed"), and 
concert/military/wind bands can be either.


I'm lucky, I can read all three clefs, though not tenor very well, 
simply because I rarely see it.


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Automatic annotation of slide positions/fingerings for brass instruments.

[Wols Lists]

On 29/08/2023 15:35, Adam M. Griggs wrote:
Here's a little self-help reference I made a little while back. Maybe it 
will illustrate your point about different positions for different 
octaves more clearly than words can.


Perhaps something in the tablature code can be adapted to this end.


Ouch!!!

Just to point out, for those who don't play trombone, you will never (in 
my experience at least, I'm sure people will find counter examples) find 
trombone music with those positions in the treble clef.


Like (I think) all brass instruments, the trombone in treble clef is a 
transposing instrument, and position 1 is a written C, not D.


In this example you need to swap the treble clef for a tenor clef ...

And then redo it for treble clef - your bass clef bottom Bb is written 
as treble clef middle C.


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Separate dynamics from notes

[Wols Lists]

On 27/04/2023 13:57, Gianmaria Lari wrote:

Thank you Leo for your answers and help.

you’ll probably need to be a little more specific about the use
case, perhaps also supply example code.


Regarding my second question, let me try to be more clear

I have a score.
I want to write the dynamics using a separate variable.
Suppose that on the first quarter of the tenth measure there is a 
"forte" and then on the note of the next bar there is a "piano." If all 
the measures have the same "time signature", let's say of 4/4, then it's 
pretty easy: just count the beats and multiply by 4. Finally you will write:


s1*9 s4\f s4*3 s4\p


The operation is not difficult but making mistakes is pretty easy. In 
fact this system works well if the "time signature" does not change or 
changes very little in the piece. Otherwise you have to add up the 
duration of each note individually and making mistakes becomes extremely 
easy.


This thing always seemed so inconvenient to me that I thought it was 
practically unusable. Or that there was some trick to maybe have 
Frescobaldi tell me the "position" of the note (meant as numbers of 
quarter or eight notes from the beginning).


I write band parts, where I have multiple parts, conflicting dynamics, 
etc etc.


When you're doing that, the easiest way to start with is a variable I 
call voiceStaff. Using spacer notes, I define the double bars, rehearsal 
marks, melody names, tempo markings, key signatures, all that sort of stuff.


I then build on it with all the instrument voices, occasionally I'll 
have a section dynamic variable, whatever.


I know what you mean with your "so inconvenient", it is a pain in the 
arse. But for me, it's the best tool for the job, the alternatives are 
even worse. Because all the parts hang off this single voiceStaff, it 
makes mistakes far more glaringly obvious. I've caught other 
transcribers' errors this way :-)


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Discourse

[Wols Lists]

On 27/02/2023 09:58, Andrew Bernard wrote:
Not sure where my brain has been holidaying lately - I had the idea you 
can't import mbox format lists into Discourse and even gave what I 
thought were reasons you can't. This it totally wrong. Discourse does 
have an import mechanism for loading mailing lists.


So I think I'll run up a Discourse server and load a substantial number 
of years of this list and then we can play with it to see. That will be 
better than me just talking about it.


One thing this conversation has done, is it's making me think that the 
impression I got from the other group was - shall we say - misleading.


They sold it on the basis of the web interface. This conversation is 
selling it on the basis of "the mailing list is just as good, and the 
web is icing on top". Well, I don't want the icing, but if the mailing 
side is as good as the present setup, or better, then that sounds 
interesting ...



Cheers,
Wol

Re: Discourse

[Wols Lists]

On 25/02/2023 13:34, Jean Abou Samra wrote:

Le samedi 25 février 2023 à 16:56 +0330, Omid Mo'menzadeh a écrit :


Hi all,
Speaking up as one of the silent majority on this topic, now that it's 
mentioned, as I think I have two cents to add.
I personally wouldn't be against Discourse, as I find its email 
interface good enough, however, there's something that does worry me 
about such a migration. As I have pointed out on the list before, 
lilypond.org  is hosted on a platform that denies 
access from a few countries (including Iran, where I live), in 
addition to a lot of IP ranges we use to circumvent censorship (we get 
a 403 error.).
If the Discourse forum uses the same servers, that would be a huge 
problem for us. These days I build the LilyPond documentation myself, 
and download it from Gitlab, which at least doesn't block my server's 
IP, but being denied of this mailing list would prove to be hard to 
compensate.



Thank you for speaking up. This is indeed very important.

At this point, nobody is volunteering for setting up a Discourse server 
(Andrew turned back), so the discussion is entirely theoretical, but if 
someone ever does take the time to set that up and push for it, we will 
need to remember this constraint on the hosting used.


One idea - if the main devs are behind it, why not move lilypond-dev to 
discourse? That's a far smaller group that you need to build consensus 
among, and if it works, then you come back to lilypond-user.


I looked up the other list that moved to Discourse (I think they had the 
same Discourse/Discord confusion), but I remember that being sold 
strongly on the web interface. I was certainly left with the very strong 
impression email was a second class citizen.


If discourse works well with email, that would presumably allay Omid's 
fears?


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Discourse

[Wols Lists]

On 24/02/2023 10:39, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:

It’s actually not the printing dialog, but a print version of the website.
The Print dialog opens on top of that. You can see this when you cancel the
print dialog - the popup is still there. Apparently, the print version is
constructed so differently from the normal version, that it must be
generated separately, instead of applying print-specific stylesheets on the
original website.


That seems to be the norm these days for any "modern" web site :-( At 
least it hasn't lost the actual content in the process!


Me? Cynical? :-)

As an alternative to discourse, Google Groups? You might even be able to 
migrate the list email address across! Of course, that would bring its 
own headaches ... or could you migrate the list address to your own 
discourse server?


At the end of the day, I'm an old dinosaur and don't want things to 
change ...


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Discourse

[Wols Lists]

On 22/02/2023 12:39, Andrew Bernard wrote:
My offer is open. For the main Discourse server I run, amusingly the 
majority of people use the email interface, no matter how much I 
encourage them to use the nice web interface. [It's a forum devoted to 
harpsichord.] The point is that it runs the web interface and email list 
including digests in parallel, and you can initiate topics by email as 
well.


Your "nice web interface" is my "pain in the arse". I much prefer to 
work in an off-line manner, using text. I can't work off-line with a web 
server.


Most web sites (can't speak for Discourse, I've never touched it) are 
stuffed full of adverts that often obscure the text I'm interested in. 
Many of the websites I interact with on a regular basis (shopping, of 
course) have completely broken print interfaces, so bad that one page of 
interesting web text will give 20 pages of print with all of the 
interesting text missing ...


Pretty much EVERY web site I CHOOSE to interact with has its design 
ethos stuck in the last century. Discourse might be similar, but I have 
absolutely no desire to find out. And the last I heard of discourse (it 
sounds like your setup is better) email appeared to be a second class 
citizen.


And of course, the other massive difference between web and email is 
that I have to actively visit the website - I've got better things to do 
with my time. Email just ends up in my (in this case) lilypond-box for 
me to scan as and when I have nothing better to do :-)


This is only my opinion - other people are free to disagree. There's no 
right or wrong, only a whole bunch of lost people who for one reason or 
another are unwilling/unable to make the transition. I've had a list 
move underneath me - I didn't move with it ...


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Policy for posts from non-members

[Wols Lists]

On 22/02/2023 06:05, Werner LEMBERG wrote:

And joining is actually pretty serious friction for some people - the
more lists I join, the more likely I am to abandon attempts to help if
I'm required to register.

I second that concern.  Being the maintainer of the FreeType mailing
lists, I face exactly the same problem.  Usually, I simply enable
messages in the queue.  If I have to do this too often, I tell people
to subscribe.

It seems, however, that the amount of new users is much larger for
LilyPond than for FreeType...


Is there an option where you can "temporarily" approve someone?

So basically the list remembers you approved a post, and for maybe the 
next 15 days it remembers and approves without moderator intervention. 
Once that time has gone, it's back to moderation.


Yes it's a bit of a pain, but it lowers friction for the drive-by 
"please help", and it lessens the work a bit for the moderators...


Cheers,
Wol

Re: German notation

[Wols Lists]

On 30/01/2023 12:37, Werner LEMBERG wrote:



Strange transposition rules also exist for horns, where in the
violin clef you transpose down, and in the bass clef you transpose
up.


Violin clef?


Sorry, bad translation from German: I meant horn parts notated with a
treble clef.

That's fine :-) It's bad enough telling the difference between a whole 
note and a semi-breve, throwing German into the mix is no worse :-)


Cheers,
Wol

Re: German notation

[Wols Lists]

On 29/01/2023 20:39, Werner LEMBERG wrote:

Strange transposition rules also exist for horns, where in the violin
clef you transpose down, and in the bass clef you transpose up.


Violin clef?

A quick search tells me the violin plays in the treble clef, which I 
doubt is what you mean?


I'm guessing the violin clef is one of the C clefs, but which one? I 
know Tenor and Alto.


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Duet part, rehearsal marks for both parts?

[Wols Lists]

On 16/10/2022 00:02, Kenneth Wolcott wrote:

Maybe I just should have kept my mouth shut 


Nah. You just have to talk to the penguin.

Talking to ANYTHING often helps you work your way through a problem, you 
just talked to the list (I sometimes do the same), and DON'T feel a fool 
for it.


What's the saying? "There's no such thing as a stupid question, just a 
stupid answer"? And if someone else sees this thread and learns 
something from it, then great!


Cheers,
Wol

Re: another 'wrong type argument' error

[Wols Lists]

On 10/10/2022 06:43, Jean Abou Samra wrote:

The problem isn’t LilyPond’s or its dependencies’ support for older macOS, 
which is better than even the system support. The real problem is Apple 
preventing you from upgrading your computer past a certain macOS version.


Which is probably down to newer versions of MacOS taking advantage of 
new chip features.


Linux drops support for older chips over time - it's almost impossible 
to get a distro that supports plain x86 any more ... Because Apple has 
far tighter integration between computer and OS, they can more easily 
upgrade in lock-step.


Cheers,
Wol

Re: function to recognise voice crossings?

[Wols Lists]

On 16/09/2022 12:53, Eef Weenink wrote:

To check this, I transpose the double bass voice down an octave and manually 
check the boths voices.

Wonder if there is a function in lilypond to do this fastly. Like the coloured 
noteheads when checking a voice against the ambitus of an instrument.


Or just use the "correct" clef :-)

The trombone is written a ninth higher than sounding, so I transpose it 
down a second (to deal with the B-flat-ness) and then use the treble_8 
clef to print it correctly.


That way, all your notes are correct, both as regards lily's internal 
pitch, and as they appear on the page.


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Displaying bar numbers for repeats

[Wols Lists]

On 28/08/2022 04:46, David Wright wrote:

On Sun 28 Aug 2022 at 10:33:30 (+1000), Andrew Bernard wrote:

I suppose there is a way to do this but the concept is strange. I have
never seen any edition do this. Why? Speaking as an organist if I came
across this I would have to spend time working out what in earth the
bracketed number means. What does it add to the score in any practical
sense?


If I'm playing/singing from a copy with unfolded repeats, and we
want to start at measure 42, somewhere in the middle of your 2nd-time
repeat, you wouldn't find any number close to 42 in your copy without
this or a similar notation.

I'd consider it mainstream. Turn to the opening of Sussex Carol in
100 Carols for Choirs (OUP) for an example that countless people will
have on their shelves.


Hmm...

Sounds like something lilypond should have, BUT. Like so many things, it 
may be mainstream for you, I think I've encountered it once. We need an 
OPTIONAL unfold bar numbers setting :-) (I regularly complain about 
Gould - a lot of music I typeset was printed before she was born.)


Even worse, we might need to make it optional per repeat!

I think the worst I've come across in this regard is we had two 
different typesettings of the same piece - some copies had unfolded 
repeats, some copies had bar numbers, some copies had rehearsal marks 
... practice was a complete mess until we worked out what on earth was 
going on :-)


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Prototype Frescobaldi in the browser

[Wols Lists]

On 08/08/2022 08:49, Andrew Bernard wrote:

Was just asking, not condemning the idea. Still interested to hear the OP.


Sorry. But when people make assumptions about other people, it does tend 
to push my buttons ... My wife is disabled, my in-laws are elderly, and 
all too often I'm providing tech support where the provider assumes 
their customers are fit and in full possession of all their physical and 
mental capabilities.


You can see why I'm a mite sensitive ...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Prototype Frescobaldi in the browser

[Wols Lists]

On 08/08/2022 06:30, Andrew Bernard wrote:
How many people need that? Doesn't everybody have a laptop? 


WHY SHOULD THEY?

You're making the classic - false - assumption that "everyone else is 
just like me".


A lot of people ONLY have chromebooks, tablets, or (gasp) even just a 
mobile phone.


One of my eternal bugbears is these companies that assume people just 
MUST have a smartphone - elderly people in particular often CAN'T USE 
smartphones ...


Just because *you* can't see a use - well I'm sure the OP can, otherwise 
why would he have created it?


Cheers,
Wol

Re: arbitrary repeat counter

[Wols Lists]

On 06/06/2022 14:10, David Kastrup wrote:

Ah. So now if you do a relative repeat, the contents of the braces are
converted to absolute before the unfold? That's neat.

It never used to be like that, Han Wen wrote that "reset octave"
thingy for me yonks ago (2.4?) because I ran in to that very problem.

Unfolded repeats worked via an iterator (and thus were not having the
\relative problem since the music is not being duplicated) as early as
1.5.66 whereas the first occurence of resetRelativeOctave appears to be
2.9.8.

You probably were thinking about a different problem.


Well, I'm pretty certain the piece of music was Pennsylvania 65-000, and 
I remember Han-Wen writing it specifically for me.


I can't remember the first version of lilypond I used, but the fact it 
first appeared in lilypond proper much later makes sense - I know I 
posted it back to the list on at least one occasion.


Aha - I've found the music, and yes, it's not quite the same problem ... 
also, no surprise, the music has a "version 2.8.2" statement at the top, 
and my function is called "resetOctave". It's a phrase that's repeated 
in voltas, so I need to reset relative pitch when I use the phrase.


So very similar, but not quite the same :-)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: arbitrary repeat counter

[Wols Lists]

On 06/06/2022 11:46, Jean Abou Samra wrote:

Le 06/06/2022 à 12:17, Wols Lists a écrit :

On 01/06/2022 18:03, Simon Bailey wrote:

Here's a weird one. Using this definition in the c,-octave, I get a
really weird output. Each note in the music drops down an octave. In
the c-octave, it works normally. Using the untagged version of
\repeatCounting doesn't show this issue in either octave.

Any ideas?


No ideas what's causing the difference in behaviour, but if you need 
to fix it, there's the "reset ocatave" command, whatever the exact 
syntax is.




I've already provided a fix for this code. Didn't you receive
that message? It's archived here:

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2022-06/msg00039.html


Specifically written for relative-mode repeats where the first and 
last notes are a fifth or more apart, and give you that exact effect ...



What do you mean? Something like

\relative {
   \repeat unfold 2 { c' g' }
}

gives the attached output. As you can see, notes are made
relative in order without taking the repeat into account,
so both repeats play at the same octave. This is not
equivalent to

\relative {
   c' g' c' g'
}

Ah. So now if you do a relative repeat, the contents of the braces are 
converted to absolute before the unfold? That's neat.


It never used to be like that, Han Wen wrote that "reset octave" thingy 
for me yonks ago (2.4?) because I ran in to that very problem.


Cheers,
Wol

Re: arbitrary repeat counter

[Wols Lists]

On 01/06/2022 18:03, Simon Bailey wrote:

Here's a weird one. Using this definition in the c,-octave, I get a
really weird output. Each note in the music drops down an octave. In
the c-octave, it works normally. Using the untagged version of
\repeatCounting doesn't show this issue in either octave.

Any ideas?


No ideas what's causing the difference in behaviour, but if you need to 
fix it, there's the "reset ocatave" command, whatever the exact syntax 
is. Specifically written for relative-mode repeats where the first and 
last notes are a fifth or more apart, and give you that exact effect ...


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Problem with Repeats and Alternatives

[Wols Lists]

On 21/04/2022 12:01, David Kastrup wrote:

John Helly  writes:


Aloha.

I've not used LP for a while but in coming back to it I've been
struggling with repeats and find that this 'preferred syntax' does not
seem to work in that it produces:

Starting lilypond 2.20.0 [test2.ly]...


Try matching the version of the documentation you consult with the
version of LilyPond you run.

And please don't hijack someone else's thread for a new subject. Start a 
new email from scratch ...


Cheers,
Wol

Re: can someone point me to complete documentation for the partial command argument syntax?

[Wols Lists]

On 19/03/2022 20:01, David Kastrup wrote:

Sam Roberts  writes:


I tried so hard to be accurate, but I missed something:

On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 12:38 PM Sam Roberts  wrote:

After experimentation, I found this worked:

\time 3/4 \partial 1 c4 |


It "works" in that pdf output looks ok, c4 is in the pickup bar, but
still warns about the bar checks, as it should.


Please don't just dump partial code that does not compile: this makes it
impossible to accurately see what you are doing.


David, you're expecting too much! By his own admission he's a newbie.

And in this particular instance it is quite clear that
(a) he does not understand what the problem IS,
and
(b) if he did understand, he wouldn't have a problem!

So, in this particular instance you are asking him to go away and solve 
his problem by himself. NOT good.


You probably are using \partial wrong: its argument does not specify how
long it is _since_ a full bar but how long it is _to_ a full bar.

As such, you'd usually see

... \time 3/4 \partial 4 c4 | ...

in typical contexts.

And the REAL problem is that he quite clearly does not understand the 
documentation (or can't find it). A problem that happens quite regularly.


A case in point - I remember having a HELL of a lot of grief with 
\partial, before I finally got it ...


When someone (especially newbie) presents with a problem, always look 
behind what they're asking for, for what they really need. Here, it's 
documentation they can understand.


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Key change with clef after the bar line?

[Wols Lists]

On 01/03/2022 22:51, Alasdair wrote:
However, what happens is that the natural sign is printed on top of the 
double bar line.  So either I need to not print the natural (which would 
be my preference), or somehow push the entire new key signature (one 
natural and two flats) after the clef sign.


Isn't there some switch to suppress naturals?


Note that I’m not interested in modern best practice, but I want to 
(with modern music printing) maintain the spirit of the 18^th century 
manuscript.


I had the same problem - I just wanted to save as much space as possible 
printing march cards, which is normal practice in turn of (last) century 
band music.


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Windows laptop

[Wols Lists]

On 13/02/2022 17:36, David Zelinsky wrote:

Wols Lists  writes:


Oh - and the other route to consider, there always used to be Ubuntu
Virtualbox or Vmware images of lilypond. Virtualbox is a freebie, and
I think you can get free Vmware.


Why would you need that?  Just run lilypond natively in Ubuntu.
(Or am I misunderstanding?)

Sorry yes you are. The whole point of the suggestion is (1) run lilypond 
natively in Ubuntu, and (2) avoid shelling out for a new PC!



I a Mac user is thinking of getting a Windows PC just to run Lilypond, I
would think they'd be better off running Ubuntu (or some flavor of
Linux) instead.


See above :-)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Windows laptop

[Wols Lists]

On 12/02/2022 08:31, Jeremiah Reilly wrote:
I have a current Mac setup with my audio, video, and graphics software. 
Terms like Celeron, Intel i3, S-Mode, Windows 10, Windows 11—these terms 
mean *nothing* to me, except that S-Mode seems to indicate that the user 
is locked into the Windows Store. That sounds bad, or at least 
Lilypond-incompatible.


All being well, this email will be totally irrelevant to you, but it may 
be useful anyway ...


Most PCs in the shop nowadays come with Windows S. I would recommend 
upgrading to Windows Pro - you can buy upgrade keys on the web pretty 
cheap, but read the vendor's instructions CAREFULLY. If you don't follow 
them, things have a habit of not working, and they keep changing!


If you're happy with Windows Home (which has basically had all the 
networking castrated), upgrading from Windows S is both free, and easy.


Oh - and the other route to consider, there always used to be Ubuntu 
Virtualbox or Vmware images of lilypond. Virtualbox is a freebie, and I 
think you can get free Vmware. If they run on Mac, that's another option...


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Setting relative pitch as a global declaration?

[Wols Lists]

On 09/02/2022 08:00, Wols Lists wrote:

On 09/02/2022 07:16, Alasdair McAndrew wrote:
I'm sorry about all these damn-fool queries of mine; I promise to go 
back under my rock soon.  Anyway:
In the current 18th century suite I'm typesetting (for two treble 
instruments without bass), there is a separate variable (containing 
the notes) for each part of each movement.  Then there are global 
declarations about the instruments, and the key and time-signature of 
each movement; and these are all brought together in score blocks.


The one thing I don't know how to do is to declare the relative pitch 
globally.  Thus, each music variable looks like


movement1_part1 = \new Voice \relative c'' { notes, notes, and more 
notes }


The difficulty is that I want to re-set the second part for a bass 
instrument, so it might start off as


movement1_part2 = \new Voice \relative c { notes, notes, and more notes }

Currently this means changing the relative pitch for each movement 
individually.  It would be much more efficient to be able to do this 
just once at the beginning, with an appropriate global declaration.  
Can this be done?  Is there a way to set the relative pitch of some 
music in a \global block?


(Note, I have indeed RTFM, but it's quite hard - even with the search 
function - to find answers to this, or examples of such use.  Hence 
this message...)


I don't know any way of doing what you want HOW you want. However, in 
the modern world, I have to do a lot of this sort of thing with \transpose.


So what I'd do is

notes_movement1_part1 = \relative c'' { notes, notes, and more notes }

movement1_part1 = \new Voice \relative c'' { notes_movement1_part1 }

movement1_part2 = \new Voice \transpose c c,, { notes_movement1_part1 }

In general you should assign any repeated block of notes to a variable, 
and then massage that variable as required. Here I've assumed the notes 
are identical across parts apart from place and octave - that's the 
impression you gave me? Like Pachelbel's Canon?


I play trombone, so it's important for me to massage *everything* into 
concert pitch on input, and then massage it into whatever form is 
appropriate on output. Consistency makes an easy life ...



Whoops ...

notes_movement1_part1 = \relative c'' { notes, notes, and more notes }

movement1_part1 = \new Voice { notes_movement1_part1 }

movement1_part2 = \new Voice \transpose c c,, { notes_movement1_part1 }

Cut-n-paste error, sorry. Now you see the dangers of cut-n-paste :-)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Setting relative pitch as a global declaration?

[Wols Lists]

On 09/02/2022 07:16, Alasdair McAndrew wrote:
I'm sorry about all these damn-fool queries of mine; I promise to go 
back under my rock soon.  Anyway:
In the current 18th century suite I'm typesetting (for two treble 
instruments without bass), there is a separate variable (containing the 
notes) for each part of each movement.  Then there are global 
declarations about the instruments, and the key and time-signature of 
each movement; and these are all brought together in score blocks.


The one thing I don't know how to do is to declare the relative pitch 
globally.  Thus, each music variable looks like


movement1_part1 = \new Voice \relative c'' { notes, notes, and more notes }

The difficulty is that I want to re-set the second part for a bass 
instrument, so it might start off as


movement1_part2 = \new Voice \relative c { notes, notes, and more notes }

Currently this means changing the relative pitch for each movement 
individually.  It would be much more efficient to be able to do this 
just once at the beginning, with an appropriate global declaration.  Can 
this be done?  Is there a way to set the relative pitch of some music in 
a \global block?


(Note, I have indeed RTFM, but it's quite hard - even with the search 
function - to find answers to this, or examples of such use.  Hence this 
message...)


I don't know any way of doing what you want HOW you want. However, in 
the modern world, I have to do a lot of this sort of thing with \transpose.


So what I'd do is

notes_movement1_part1 = \relative c'' { notes, notes, and more notes }

movement1_part1 = \new Voice \relative c'' { notes_movement1_part1 }

movement1_part2 = \new Voice \transpose c c,, { notes_movement1_part1 }

In general you should assign any repeated block of notes to a variable, 
and then massage that variable as required. Here I've assumed the notes 
are identical across parts apart from place and octave - that's the 
impression you gave me? Like Pachelbel's Canon?


I play trombone, so it's important for me to massage *everything* into 
concert pitch on input, and then massage it into whatever form is 
appropriate on output. Consistency makes an easy life ...


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Lilypond's English Horn MIDI instrument is non-transposing?

[Wols Lists]

On 13/01/2022 21:40, James B. Wilkinson wrote:

If I make it with the English horn part correctly transposed, the MIDI sounds terrible. 
If I make it with the English horn part untransposed, it sounds fine. My conclusion is 
that the midiInstrument "english horn" reads its part in C rather than in F. 
Shouldn't it play the notes that a real English horn would?


Out of curiosity, and speaking as a Brit! what on earth is an "English 
Horn"? Is the instrument the English call a Cor Anglais?


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Lilypond's English Horn MIDI instrument is non-transposing?

[Wols Lists]

On 15/01/2022 03:01, James B. Wilkinson wrote:
1) why do I need  "\transpose f c \tenor" instead of "\transpose f c' 
\tenor"? If I use c' it goes an octave too high.


\transpose f c' is transposing UP a fifth, it will play a fifth higher 
than written.

\transpose f c takes it down a fourth.

I guess it's written in treble clef, so for a tenor voice you will want 
to take it down.


The first note is the input value, the second value is the note that is 
output, and each octave starts at C going up. So the ' octave starts 
with middle C (c') and goes up the treble clef, while the plain 
unaltered octave starts with C in the bass clef (c), and goes up to but 
does not include middle C.


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Transposing pitches in the lilypond file itself?

[Wols Lists]

On 12/01/2022 04:26, Alasdair McAndrew wrote:
I'm not quite sure how to search online for this, hence my asking here. 
I'm doing a little bit of arranging of some baroque pieces for specific 
instruments, which usually requires some transposition.  I can transpose 
within the lilypond file so that the output score has the correct 
(transposed) notes, but what I really want is to have the transposed 
notes in the lilypond file itself.  This means I can print out the score 
without needing to transpose anything.  So basically I want to change an 
input from, say

\transpose c,f {c d e f}

to simply

{f g a bf}

In other words, I want the transposition in the file itself, not just in 
the typeset output.  Is there a way of doing this - maybe with an 
external command (I'm using Linux)?

Thank you very much,


Playing the trombone as I do, I have music in both treble clef (Bb), and 
bass clef (concert). So I *AlWAYS* wrap my input in a transpose.


With a bass clef part I do

notes = \transpose c' c' { c d e f g a b c' }

and with treble I do

notes = \transpose c' bf { c d e f g a b c' }

That way, I know (a) that "notes" is ALWAYS concert pitch, and (B) 
whether my original music was in bass or treble clef (that can be 
important :-)


Then, when I'm outputting, in my score block I do

\score {
  \clef treble (
\transpose bf c' { \notes }
  }
}

or

\score {
  \clef bass (
\transpose c' c' { \notes }
  }
}

So actually I'm ALWAYS doing TWO transpositions, but because notes is 
always concert pitch it is easy to keep track of what's going on. And if 
I want the output to be the same as the input I know all I do is reverse 
the original transposition. Not quite what you're asking for, but 
hopefully a better solution to your problem. Not least because you can 
proof the output and know you haven't messed up the transposition.


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Feedback wanted: syntax highlighting in the LilyPond documentation

[Wols Lists]

On 04/01/2022 16:23, Aaron Hill wrote:

On 2022-01-04 7:29 am, Erika Pirnes wrote:

Would it be terribly difficult to have a color setting on the
documentation page, so that people can choose between black and color?


It is fairly straightforward with CSS and a little JavaScript:


Is that on the web page, or down to the reader?

I'm only just getting into Google Sheets and GoogleScript so calling it 
"fairly straightforward" is something I'd disagree with if I'm expected 
to do it. Not for somebody who has had no reason to go near 
js/gs/whatever before...


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Feedback wanted: syntax highlighting in the LilyPond documentation

[Wols Lists]

On 04/01/2022 15:14, J Martin Rushton wrote:

OK, I'll admit I only skimmed it, hence "I've saved the paper to read
later"!  I've got Doob's "A Gentle Introduction to TeX" and Oetiker's
"The Not So Short Introduction to LaTeX2e" both of which keep to the
fixed width convention.  Again, I'll be honest, I rarely use them since
I've retired though.


Reading through this, I'd just like to say I think we're confusing two 
things. Iirc someone said "Courier is a crap font" and the discussion 
rapidly veered off into fixed width.


While I have no real comment to make about Courier, and I think there 
are much better fonts out there, I do think we should keep fixed-width 
for code. Just look for a better font :-)


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Feedback wanted: syntax highlighting in the LilyPond documentation

[Wols Lists]

On 02/01/2022 16:32, Jean Abou Samra wrote:



I am colorblind (which BTW means that it's hard to distinguish certain
colors, not that everything is gray).



Sorry if I gave a wrong impression. I didn't
mean that everything actually looked gray, just
that it was the extreme imaginary case encompassing
all types of colorblindness (I think there are
different ones, right?).


Yup. The eye contains four detectors, one for brightness, and one each 
for the three primary colours which I believe are Red, GREEN and Blue.


I've never heard of the brightness detector being missing - this gives 
us night vision and our sense of how bright the light is. I think any of 
the other three missing gives us our typical colour blindnesses.


And I'm guessing here, but I suspect Red/Green blindness is caused by a 
missing/faulty red detector, so the green detector strays into the red 
spectrum.


(Insects and birds, I believe, have a fourth colour detector for 
ultra-violet, while other animals have an infra-red detector.)


Cheers,
Wol

Re: Feedback wanted: syntax highlighting in the LilyPond documentation

[Wols Lists]

On 02/01/2022 09:34, Marc Lanoiselée via LilyPond user discussion wrote:
It will be necessary to keep an uncolored version for men (in principle 
women do not have this problem) who do not see well certain colors.


In principle (and practice) women DO suffer this problem. It's caused by 
a defective X chromosome so, like haemophilia, the majority of sufferers 
are men. If however a colour-blind man marries a carrier woman, any 
daughter runs a 50-50 risk of being colour-blind.


Cheers,
Wol

Re: point-and-click default

[Wols Lists]

On 30/12/2021 17:22, David Zelinsky wrote:

In evince on my Ubuntu system, clicking on the note elicits an error,
because evince does not know what to do with a "textedit:..." link.
Section 4.1 of the Usage Manual (under 4. External Programs) explains
how to make it work.


Nor does my Windows setup ...

When it works, it's useful, but it's certainly not a novice hack if it 
doesn't work out-of-the-box.


(Yes I know it's bog-standard nix, but my original background was 
minicomputers, and it still feels alien to me.)


Cheers,
Wol

Re: specifically: how to do "p-f" dynamics (first time, second time); generally: how to find this in the manuals

[Wols Lists]

I have a little include area for all my standard stuff - I redefine the 
header block, for example. But one of those files in there contains a 
bunch of definitions for all the odd dynamics. So every time I need to 
add a new one, I've got all the others there as examples ... :-)


Cheers,
Wol

On 27/11/2021 18:07, Ritchie wrote:

Hi,

I was looking / asking the same some time ago.

A very helpful list denizen helped me by suggesting...

\markup { \dynamic "p - f" }

Just thought I'd pass on :-)

Ritchie


On 27/11/2021 17:49, Kenneth Wolcott wrote:

Thank you Knute, that helps.

On Sat, Nov 27, 2021 at 7:03 AM Knute Snortum  wrote:

Here's how I would do it:

* Go to Google and type "lilypond 2.22 dynamics".  The 2.22 is the
version.  This usually brings up several possible links to the manual
and the first one is a good one.
* Clink the link about expressive marks:
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/notation/expressive-marks-attached-to-notes
* Click the New Dynamic Marks link.  There you go!
* Alternatively, you could start here:
https://lilypond.org/doc/v2.22/Documentation/web/manuals.html.
Usually what you want is in the Learning Manual, the Notation
Reference, or Snippets.  The Internal Reference is for when you get
deeper into LilyPond.  You can use the Search field in the bottom left
corner, and this it turns out uses Google!  But it can get you some
clues about how to search.

HTH

--
Knute Snortum


--
Knute Snortum



On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 8:10 PM Kenneth Wolcott
  wrote:

Hi;

   Regarding the old fable: "Give me a fish, I can eat for a meal; Give
me a fishing pole, I can eat for a lifetime."...

I can't remember how to do dynamics pertaining to an implied repeat.

The music has "p -f" for dynamic marking.

The general problem: How do I search (what phrases should I use) to
find this information in the manual?

Thanks,
Ken Wolcott

Re: Cadenza -- I'm missing something

[Wols Lists]

On 16/08/21 07:06, Mark Probert wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> I don't understand why I am seeing the behaviour I have with the 
> snippet below. I would expect to see the section marked "G Phrygian" to 
> have the aes bes and ees marked, but they are not (obviously you are 
> meant to read them from the earlier bar). How can I force them to show?
> 
A third solution ... might be a bit more effort, but that is to manually
force the accidental.

I often put a "?" after the note, that forces an "advisory" accidental -
usually meant to remind players that a previous accidental no longer
applies because of a bar-line or whatever. There is another command - is
it "!"? - that will just print the appropriate accidental for that note.

Cheers,
Wol

Rainbow Bells

[Wols Lists]

I've got a set of Rainbow Bells -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Percussion-Workshop-CB8-Coloured-Combi/dp/B007902JRG/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1=rainbow+bells+cb8=1627984472=8-4

I've modified the coloured-noteheads code to be an approximate match,
and I'm quite pleased with it, but does anybody just happen to have it
modified for the full 20-bell set with the correct colours?

Cheers,
Wol

Re: AW: Custom Format

[Wols Lists]

On 02/04/21 11:57, David Kastrup wrote:
>> Apart from the organ (which I was shocked to discover, in its MODERN
>> > form, first appeared about 600BC!!!),

> Herr Gottlieb Silbermann would like to have a word with you.  Because he
> invested an awful lot of work to get organs to the state we call modern
> and where they will, for example, do

Depends on what we think of as "form" :-)

For example, I wouldn't call the natural horn the modern form, because
the French Horn is keyed and most of the others horns have valves - both
modern inventions.

But the trombone and violins haven't changed much going a lot further
back - the sackbut may have a narrow bore and small bell, but the
resemblance to the modern trombone is pretty close. Likewise I don't
know how far the violin goes back, but I guess it's very close to the
folk fiddle that probably existed in the middle ages, if not long before.

But - as I understand it - the organ (consisting of air blown through
pipes and controlled by keys) was invented that long ago. The technology
for blowing the air has changed a lot since then ... :-)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Point & Click with Atom

[Wols Lists]

On 01/11/20 02:13, David Wright wrote:
> If one
> deals only with graphical applications, there is almost no scope
> for a shell to make an appearance at all, so it seems strange, to
> some, to involve the shell at login time.

AIUI, the problem is made worse by the fact that - if you log in at the
gui - the shell doesn't get invoked AT ALL until it's needed to run the
command, at which point it's too late.

Catch 22 - the shell gets run after the command is called, but the
command needs the shell running first so the command-line knows where to
find the command!

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Note range of a score

[Wols Lists]

On 08/10/20 01:47, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> Thanks Aaron - that's perfect!
> 
> Never had need of that before. A great function.

This requirement is actually quite common for teaching material. It's
been a long time ago, but I remember seeing plenty of pieces for wind
where right at the start there's an indication of the highest and lowest
notes.

It's not that important for strings (and woodwind?) because they depend
primarily on finger position, but for brass learners stick to written
bf, -> e' because they're not that hard to blow. Below that requires
good breath control and above that requires good lip technique. Not
something students typically acquire quickly or easily.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> On 8/10/2020 11:22 am, Aaron Hill wrote:
>> Seems like something the Ambitus_engraver would help with.
>>
> 
Cheers,
Wol

Re: macro for \once\override

[Wols Lists]

On 29/08/20 05:45, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
>   \once \override FretBoard.size = #'1.0
>   \once \override FretBoard.fret-diagram-details.barre-type = #'straight
>   \once \override FretBoard.fret-diagram-details.dot-color = #'black
>   \once \override FretBoard.fret-diagram-details.finger-code = 
> #'below-string
>   c'

Unfortunately this might well require re-writing the parser, but it
struck me it might be a nice idea to nick an idea from other object
oriented languages as follows ...

\once \override FretBoard.size = #'1.0
\once \override \using FretBoard.fret-diagram-details {
.barre-type = #'straight
.dot-color = #'black
.finger-code = #'below-string
}
c'

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Naming RFC: Properties, property sets, presets

[Wols Lists]

On 13/07/20 10:29, Urs Liska wrote:
> Am Montag, den 13.07.2020, 19:02 +1000 schrieb Andrew Bernard:
>> Property subset is good.
>>
> 
> In a way, yes, namely by keeping within the semantic domain.
> However, while a property set actually defines the available properties
> (along with predicates and default values) the "preset" is concerned
> with *values* for a subset of the property set.

Does the "property set" define the default values? In which case, the
property subset also defines the default values for the items it contains.

We're basically thinking along the systemd lines, aren't we, where the
distro defines the default values in a default setup directory, and then
the admin defines the over-rides in a local setup directory?

If both property set, and property subset, define default values then
that makes perfect logical sense. From what you said above, this seems
to be the case. The "property subset" is a proper subset of the
"property set" and over-rides any settings in the "property set".

If you want to say that the "property subset" cannot define predicates
or new values, that's fine. It *IS* a *SUBSET*, after all :-)
> 
> After some thinking I disagree with the notion that preset is wrong in
> itself. The thing I'm referring to isn't a wrongly-worded mathematical
> set but a set of values to preset (in the ordinary English meaning of
> setting in advance) a subset of available properties.
> 
> However, I agree that it would be unfortunate to have "set" in such
> different meanings in "property set" and "preset".
> 
Except I'm a native speaker. To use the word "preset" in this context
jars *horribly*. The implicit assumptions built into the mind of a
native speaker will make this a lilypond "special case" use of language
and while non-native speakers will simply learn it, native speakers will
have great difficulty unlearning the normal meaning of the word.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Naming RFC: Properties, property sets, presets

[Wols Lists]

On 13/07/20 03:16, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> Hi Urs,
> 
> Great work. I have an issue with 'preset'. If you look at software
> synths, for example, they can store and load 'presets' but these are
> _all_ the parameters for a patch. I don't ever think the word preset
> means a subset of a set of settings or properties.

Agreed. "preset" is completely the wrong word, sorry.

In normal English, it means "set beforehand", and is not associated in
any way with the mathematical concept of a set. It will be very
confusing to an English speaker.

You've got property sets (two words). Why not override sets? Or even
property subsets - actually that might be an extremely good choice, as
it includes in itself the concept that it does not change anything that
it does not itself contain. Plus they are all very clearly related...

As for the word "flavour" (yes, use the US spelling why don't you :-),
that actually ime is in use in computing. Like there are different
variations of SQL depending on the underlying database, with my
favourite database the word "flavor" is used to declare which original
version the modern one is emulating. So if behaviour is noticeably
different between different settings, then yes flavor would ring
perfectly normal with me.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Identify included files

[Wols Lists]

On 25/05/20 19:25, Fr. Samuel Springuel wrote:
> I think this is where you’ve missed something.  When using DK’s code as the 
> init file (or my later version, which make the output more make-friendly), 
> LilyPond **does not actually typeset the music.**  All it does is read 
> through the files to construct ly:source-files and then output that list to 
> stdout.  It is the equivalent, in some sense, of the -M option for a CC 
> (which is where the whole analogy got started).  cc -M sample.c does not 
> create sample.o, it outputs the list of files that sample.o depends on.  
> Likewise lilypond --init parse-only.ly sample.ly does not create sample.pdf, 
> it outputs the list of files that sample.pdf depends on.  In both cases we’re 
> using the compiler’s (cc or lilypond) already existing knowledge of how to 
> read its source and find the mentioned includes, but instead of telling it to 
> use that knowledge to create the target (the object file or pdf), we’re 
> telling it to use that knowledge to create the dependency list.

So. Am I correct in thinking that, if you change one .ily file, you need
to rebuild the entire makefile? WHY?

I don't know the exact make syntax but my makefile would be something like

partTrombone.pdf partTrombone.ly
   lilypond partTrombone.ly

partTrombone.ly voiceTrombone.ily
   :

voiceTrombone.ily dynamics.ily
   :

Here I'm assuming that ":" tells make that this is a virtual object - it
can't be made but it's affected by changes to the file(s) that it
depends on.

So if I edit dynamics.ily, then do "make partTrombone.pdf", make will
cascade that virtual dependency up, realise that partTrombone.pdf is out
of date, and rebuild it. And it means if put a new include into
dynamics.ily, I just need to create/update the line for dynamics.ily,
and everything that depends on it will rebuild if I run the "make" command.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Identify included files

[Wols Lists]

On 24/05/20 21:28, Fr. Samuel Springuel wrote:
> It’s not quite as straight-forward as you seem to think:
> 
> 1) You haven’t accounted for the possibility of multiple folders with varying 
> levels of hierarchy.  The changed file might be in ../ relative to one file, 
> ../../ relative to another, ../some/dir/levels relative to a third and other 
> possible variations.  It might also be specified /with/an/absolute/path in 
> some files.  All of that complicates the search string for grep.

This is a real can of worms ...

I THINK all paths are relative to where lilypond is running. So any
include file that itself contains relative includes is asking for
trouble - it's "random" whether those paths will be valid or not...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: registering a composition

[Wols Lists]

On 24/05/20 14:18, Valentin Villenave wrote:
> On 5/24/20, David Kastrup  wrote:
>> You are working from the premise that everybody except you is an idiot.
> 
> Guys, stop bickering and veering off-topic.  The original purpose of
> this thread was to help Francesco gain some insight into the copyright
> modalities and possible publishing choices; arguing about whether one
> particular license authorizes or not to sell software and/or CDs
> and/or services may be interesting (though I believe this has already
> been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere, and by more knowledgeable people
> than *any* of us) but it remains absolutely orthogonal to the matter
> at hand.

Sorry - I'm being the pedantic lawyerly type ...
> 
> Granted, I was probably the one who opened that can of worms in the
> first place; although I do have my own principles and beliefs, the
> only point I’ve been trying to get across is that Francesco has
> _several_ options (and not that many risks), rather than the Single
> Mandatory Way that’s ordinarily offered to authors and artists.
> 
> As far as I’m concerned, there is no invalid or morally corrupt choice
> (even publishing under all-rights-reserved and subjugating oneself to
> some private copyright organization), as long as it _is_ a choice,
> made deliberately and not out of ignorance or fear.
> 
AOL.

As I said, I probably spent too much time on Groklaw. I've come across
too many - REAL - examples where this nitpicking determined cases...
often for the worse :-( (Admittedly, pretty much all in the US ...)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: registering a composition

[Wols Lists]

On 24/05/20 12:52, David Kastrup wrote:
> antlists  writes:
> 
>> So you don't understand the difference between the story, and the book?
> 
> You are working from the premise that everybody except you is an idiot.
> That does not make a backdrop for a discussion but monologueing.  I am
> not interested in that.
> 
Sorry. But Carl quoted from GPL preamble which says you have the freedom
to distribute COPIES of the software, and charge for it.

I said you cannot charge for THE SOFTWARE. I fail to see any conflict
between those two statements, and when you're talking law and litigious
lawyers, the distinction is important. Sorry. I probably spent too long
on Groklaw :-)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: registering a composition

[Wols Lists]

On 24/05/20 01:08, Carl Sorensen wrote:
> Actually, GNU allows charging for the software.  From the Preamble to the GNU 
> GPL:
> 
> "When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Our 
> General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom 
> to distribute copies of free software (and charge for them if you wish)"

You have freedom to charge for the SERVICE of DISTRIBUTING the software
(which I said :-), not the freedom of charging for the software itself.

Yes, I know I'm being pedantic, but when you're dealing with the law
pedanticism matters :-)

(GPL v2 contains some bugs, and some people actively exploit those bugs
as features ...)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Identify included files

[Wols Lists]

On 22/05/20 02:08, David Wright wrote:
> On Thu 21 May 2020 at 17:54:38 (+0100), antlists wrote:
>> On 21/05/2020 16:36, David Wright wrote:
>>> On Thu 21 May 2020 at 13:57:00 (+0100), antlists wrote:

> 
>> I have tried accidentally
>> to do things like "lilypond voiceTrombone.ily" and it blew up quite
>> spectacularly. I would expect most of mine, and in truth most other
>> peoples', .ily files to blow up if fed straight to lilypond.
> 
> Big deal. I won't ask what's in voiceTrombone.ily.

A variable declaration. You know - EXACTLY THE SAME as C programmers
often stick in .h files ...
> 
>> And if they do compile, the output probably isn't much use ... :-)
> 

>>
>> Does bar.c contain a main{} definition?
> 
> Why would it?

Why WOULDN'T it?

You said that bar.c contained a load of functionality that you wanted in
foo.c. How am I supposed to know whether bar.c is a program or a library?
> 
>>> Now we can compile foo.c (which #includes bar.h) over and over while
>>> debugging it, all without ever recompiling bar.c. foo.c knows all it
>>> needs to know about bar.c because of bar.h's declarations.
>>
>> Can you now link bar.o into foo? I honestly don't know - I don't know
>> how a linker will behave if fed two main{} functions ... ?
> 
> This isn't too hard. As I wrote, bar.c has functions, and bar.h has
> declarations for those functions so that compiling foo.c can check
> the calls of those functions without ever seeing bar.c (ie without
> recompiling bar.c over and over).
> 
>>> I now have a suite.ly that typesets my Suite for flute and piano.
>>> It \includes nine files: flute{I,II,III}.ily, piano{I,II,III}.ily
>>> (the notes), and flute-part.ily, piano-part.ily and complete-score.ily,
>>> (my \score templates). It also \includes {marks,dyns,fingers}.ily that
>>> contain LP code for my preferred styles of markings, dynamics and fingering.
>>>
>>> I have a file, suite.dep, which contains the information that suite.ly
>>> depends on these files to produce three targets, {flute,piano,suite}.pdf
>>> The same file might also indicate that I need just flute{I,II,III}.ily,
>>> flute-part.ily and {marks,dyns,fingers}.ily for just a flute.pdf.
>>>
>>> What do I write in a top-level theFlute.ly file to produce this
>>> flute.pdf and how does it benefit from the suite.sep information?
>>> How do I use this information profitably, in the way that bar.h did?

I don't have a clue. Your workflow sounds completely weird and totally
incomprehensible to me. You know what? I don't give a monkeys - your
world view is what you choose to see. You see things different to me!
>>>
>>> ¹ I'm abbreviating with shell's "brace expansion" notation.
>>>
>> Now we get to the meat of the matter. You've put bar.c's
>> *declarations* into bar.h. Does lilypond even have declarations? Also,
>> it's perfectly normal practice to put *definitions* in .h files -
>> static variables, macros, inline functions, etc etc.
>>
>> I put most of my lilypond variable *definitions* into .ily files. Yup,
>> .h files *tend* to contain declarations not definitions, but as I say,
>> I don't think lilypond syntax has  declarations?
>>
>> So yes, am I right in thinking you view .ily files as closer to .o
>> files? With lilypond closer to a linker than a compiler?
> 
> No.

Okay.
> 
>> At the end of the day, I see it as .h files can contain declarations,
>> .ily files contain declarations. .h files are included, .ily files are
>> included. Some languages (like lilypond) are monolithic and don't
>> really have the concept of libraries. So I find it extremely easy to
>> view .ly/.ily as being similar to .c/.h. Not the same, because
>> lilypond is not gcc ... :-)
>>
>> There's no one absolute view - you see things different to me, doesn't
>> mean you (or me) is right.
> 
> Look¹, I'm not the one making this analogy. I'm trying to make any
> sense of it, and why this "dependency file" is being built.

I didn't make it either! I just happen to totally agree with it.
> 
> How do I use .ily files—almost all of them are definitions of
> layouts, score structures, paper formats, variables' default values,
> my abbreviations, and scheme code where it's wrapped in LP syntax.
> They reside in a library directory that also has three subdirectories:
> a collection of systematically named paper-margin files, a load of
> boilerplate for exhaustively constructing MIDI file voice combinations,
> and raw .scm files (like swing.scm).
> 
> One or two .ily files consist of source that's been factorised out of
> the .ly file(s) that calls them. So, for example, there are festal
> hymns that have words for the different seasons, so most of the
> seasonal versions can be factorised out into an .ily file and then
> inserted at the appropriate points in the main .ly file. There's
> no saving in volume of compilation, only duplication.

WHICH IS EXACTLY A REASON FOR .h FILES! Removing duplication is a good
way of removing errors (or making them easier to fix :-)
> 
> I haven't used any 

Re: Fonts for text

[Wols Lists]

On 26/04/20 09:20, Noeck wrote:
> 
> 
> Am 26.04.20 um 09:13 schrieb Thomas Morley:
>> In "Times New Roman" the "Roman" is taken as font-family of font
>> "Times New", which does not exists, thus a fall-back font is used.
> 
> What? :)
> 
> (Well, I think I know some background why, but that is still really
> unexpected.)
> 
What I call a chainsaw bug, not a papercut bug ...

Okay, I've only really skimmed the thread, but if you pass a valid font
name and it mis-interprets it as a font-family, that's nasty.

Down to the usual argument about "is a space part of a token, or a token
separator?", I guess ...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: notes in text

[Wols Lists]

On 23/04/20 18:42, bobr...@centrum.is wrote:
> I'm looking for a way to include some free standing notes in a line of text.  
> Specifically, I want a pair of beamed 16th, a '=' sign, and then three beamed 
> 16th notes, indicating that two 16ths equal three 16ths.  I'd also like to 
> use it in a \tempo marking.  I searched nabble but did not find what I was 
> after.  Can someone point me in the right direction?
> 
Search the docs?

By default, the \tempo does the tempo followed optionally by a text
description. I wanted a text description followed by the tempo, and I
believe the documentation does tell you how to do that, which is exactly
what I think you want.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Remote Ensemble Playing

[Wols Lists]

On 30/03/20 10:15, Dr Nicholas Bailey wrote:
> I don't trust Zoom anyway.  Why has it got more than 2 open file 
> descriptors? What's it doing  with my files??
> 
> $ lsof | grep -i zoom | wc -l
> 20811

I can't find what I was looking for, but this was mentioned recently on
LWN. Apparently it's down to naive usage of glibc ... :-(

I think it was this article https://lwn.net/Articles/814535/ , you'll
probably find it was blindly searching for a whole bunch of config files
are those descriptors are dentries for files that don't exist.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Chord options in leadsheets

[Wols Lists]

On 22/02/20 09:11, hendry.mich...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> I use Lilypond to prepare jazz leadsheets. Most of the time, this is
> straightforward, but the screenshot illustrates three additions I'd like to
> be able to include.
> 
> 1. The ability to provide alternative chords (shown in parentheses above the
> first two bars).

I tried to do this, and it didn't get accepted. I struggle with Scheme
and the more esoteric lilypond syntax. That said, I did get it working,
what it needed was clean-up.

I attach the patches, if you or someone else would like to take it on
and get it in ...

Cheers,
Wol
>From 60972eafba7f58fc0792529efc4e7b5f269f4cd1 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Carl Sorensen 
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 03:52:28 -0600
Subject: [PATCH] Add capo chord names

Got capo-handler working properly
---
 lily/chord-name-engraver.cc   |4 ++--
 scm/chord-name.scm|   28 
 scm/define-context-properties.scm |2 ++
 3 files changed, 32 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)

diff --git a/lily/chord-name-engraver.cc b/lily/chord-name-engraver.cc
index d0ced5a..2442cdb 100644
--- a/lily/chord-name-engraver.cc
+++ b/lily/chord-name-engraver.cc
@@ -124,8 +124,8 @@ Chord_name_engraver::process_music ()
 
   pitches = scm_sort_list (pitches, Pitch::less_p_proc);
 
-  SCM name_proc = get_property ("chordNameFunction");
-  markup = scm_call_4 (name_proc, pitches, bass, inversion,
+  SCM capo_proc = ly_lily_module_constant ("capo-handler");
+  markup = scm_call_4 (capo_proc, pitches, bass, inversion,
   context ()->self_scm ());
 }
   /*
diff --git a/scm/chord-name.scm b/scm/chord-name.scm
index 79b0189..98506d0 100644
--- a/scm/chord-name.scm
+++ b/scm/chord-name.scm
@@ -170,3 +170,31 @@ FOOBAR-MARKUP) if OMIT-ROOT is given and non-false.
 	 (alist (map chord-to-exception-entry elts)))
 (filter (lambda (x) (cdr x)) alist)))
 
+(define-public (capo-handler pitches bass inversion context)
+  (let ((chord-function
+  (ly:context-property context 'chordNameFunction 'jazz-chord-names))
+(capo-pitch (ly:context-property context 'capoPitch '(
+(if (not capo-pitch)
+(chord-function pitches bass inversion context)  ;; call the chordNameFunction as of old
+(let* ((new-pitches   ;; else transpose the pitches and do the chord twice
+(map (lambda (p)
+   (ly:pitch-transpose p capo-pitch))
+ pitches))
+   (new-bass
+ (if (ly:pitch? bass)
+ (ly:pitch-transpose bass capo-pitch)
+ '()))
+   (new-inversion
+ (if (ly:pitch? inversion)
+ (ly:pitch-transpose inversion capo-pitch)
+ '()))
+   (capo-markup
+ (make-parenthesize-markup
+   (chord-function new-pitches new-bass new-inversion context)))
+   (name-markup (chord-function pitches bass  inversion context))
+  (capo-vertical (ly:context-property context 'capoVertical #f)))
+  (if capo-vertical
+  (make-column-markup (list name-markup capo-markup))
+  (make-line-markup (list name-markup
+  (make-hspace-markup 1)
+  capo-markup)))
diff --git a/scm/define-context-properties.scm b/scm/define-context-properties.scm
index dab5211..d17f72f 100644
--- a/scm/define-context-properties.scm
+++ b/scm/define-context-properties.scm
@@ -135,6 +135,8 @@ that normally end on beats.")
  (beatStructure ,list? "List of @code{baseMoment}s that are combined
 to make beats.")
 
+ (capoPitch ,ly:pitch? "The pitch to transpose chords down by when using the capo.")
+ (capoVertical ,boolean? "Whether to display actual and transposed pitches above each other or not.")
  (chordChanges ,boolean? "Only show changes in chords scheme?")
  (chordNameExceptions ,list? "An alist of chord exceptions.
 Contains @code{(@var{chord} . @var{markup})} entries.")
-- 
1.7.2.2

>From 5da87456d11663f10ff2aab0e3e2ea63b6b42c36 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Wol 
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 23:42:34 +0100
Subject: [PATCH 3/3] Documentation for the capoPitch chordname property

---
 Documentation/notation/chords.itely |   27 +++
 1 files changed, 27 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)

diff --git a/Documentation/notation/chords.itely b/Documentation/notation/chords.itely
index 1109075..12e9390 100644
--- a/Documentation/notation/chords.itely
+++ b/Documentation/notation/chords.itely
@@ -506,6 +506,33 @@ Rests passed to a @code{ChordNames} context will cause the
 }
 @end lilypond
 
+@cindex Transposing guitar chords for capo
+
+If the @code{capoPitch} property is set, then the chords will additionally be printed
+transposed for a guitar with the 

Re: QtWebEngine vs. Ubuntu 16.04

[Wols Lists]

On 29/12/19 04:30, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> thanks for the reply. I have learned from painful experience that it
> seems better to just reinstall the OS completely, avoiding any issues
> with the upgrade, and restore user data from backup. I have made all
> preparations for that and am trying to do it (freshly install 18.04).

In that case, if you haven't already, make sure you put /home on its own
partition. That will make things a lot easier as the re-install won't go
anywhere near your home directories ...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: transpositions within a global key setting.

[Wols Lists]

On 10/12/19 06:41, Urs Liska wrote:
> 
> Am 09.12.19 um 15:24 schrieb N. Andrew Walsh:
>> Hi List,
>>
>> let us say I have a piece where I want to specify the key signature
>> once for all instruments. I have something like the following:
>>
>> \version = 2.19.82
>> global= {
>>  \key f \minor
>>  \time 4/8
>>   }
>> %% (and whatever other settings I want)
>>
>> oDAMusic = \transpose a c {
>>   \relative c''' {
>> \key as \minor
>> {{MUSIC}}
>>   }
>> }
> 
> 
> What this code is trying to convey (different from your intentions) that
> MUSIC is some music in as minor that is then transposed to f minor.
> 
> What you *need* to say is that the music is in f minor (because that is
> your key signature) but transposed *for display* to as minor. It should
> immediately strike you as odd when you seem to need to write \key as
> \minor when you are not actually having polytonality.
> 
> So the key signature in your music should be the f minor specified in
> the global variable (note BTW that it is not ideal practice naming a
> variable "global"), and you can simply include that *within* the music
> expression rather than in teh staff definition.
> 
> You define the music in the original key and then transpose it to the
> key you want it displayed in. If you are dealing with MIDI output (and
> even if not you should consider it) you can then use \transposition to
> re-transpose the MIDI output without affecting the engraved key and
> pitches (see
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/displaying-pitches#instrument-transpositions
> (which is where you should have looked at)).
> 
> This is what you want to do:
> 
> \version  "2.19.82"
> global= {
>   \key f \minor
>   \time 4/8
> }
> 
> oDAMusic = 
> \transpose f as 
> \relative c' {
>   \transposition a
>   \global
>   f g as
> }
> 
> \score {
>   \new Staff = "Staff_oboeDA" <<
> \oDAMusic 
>   >>
> }
> 
> HTH
> Urs
> 
As a player in a concert band and a brass band, this is my main use of
lilypond. I don't use midi, and I've never got to grips with
transposition (because I don't use midi?)

So when I'm INPUTing music, I always do

voiceTrombone = \transpose c' c' { notes }
or
voiceTrombone = \transpose c' bf { notes }

This then gives me a music variable with all my notes IN CONCERT PITCH.

When outputting, I then do

\Staff {
   \Clef = bass
   \transpose c' c' {
  \key ...
  \voiceTrombone
  ...
   }
}

or

\Staff {
   \Clef = treble_8
   \transpose bf c' {
  \key ...
  \voiceTrombone
  ...
   }
}

That way, everything is always in concert until the last possible
moment, but also, when I'm looking at the music, I can tell whether it
was copied from a concert or a brass part, and the notes in the .ly file
match the notes on the piece of paper.

(And I *always* transpose, even from C to C, because it tells me I
haven't forgotten anything :-)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: make text span a specified musical interval?

[Wols Lists]

On 25/11/19 03:00, Jace Toronto wrote:
>> Is this what you would like the output to look like or am I misunderstanding?
> 
> Hi Ben,
> 
> Yes, thank you, that is exactly the right look for this particular example.  
> Is there a way to tell the end of the text to align with the barline (or 
> repeat sign in this case), so that different layouts can be accommodated 
> without a hard-coded spacer?
> 
Off the top of my head, would it be possible to create a new voice just
for this, and attach the text to a crotchet spacer-note s4? That's what
I'd try ...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Set a temporary tempo change

[Wols Lists]

On 18/11/19 01:51, Paolo Prete wrote:
> Aaron,
> 
> that's great.
> I propose to the ML to add the function to the official release. It's
> very helpful when you want to make the midi output more realistic, with
> frequent tempo changes

A lot of music I play has "tempo primo". Personally I don't care about
midi, but this stack mechanism seems almost perfect for implementing
that, too ...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: Polyrythmic Align Bars

[Wols Lists]

On 16/09/19 14:38, sir.teddy.the.fi...@gmail.com wrote:
> The 4/4-Bar needs to be played over the duration of the two 6/8-Bars and
> I want it to realign afterwards to continue both voices with a 6/8 time.
> 
> The 4/4-Part would need to have a different tempo, because if both play
> at the same tempo, they won’t align.
> 
> It is probably harder to write this down than to actually play it, but
> this should be the easiest way to notate this without using tons of tuplets.
> 
>  
> 
> Is something like this possible?
> 
What happens if you just wrap the entire 4/4 bar in a "\times 3/2 {}"
wrapper? I'm sure I've done something like that and it might generate
your "tons of tuplets", but at least you're not typing them all in
individually.

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Proportional notation not working as expected.

[Wols Lists]

On 15/09/19 01:51, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> Hi Stefano,
> 
> I work extensively with a New Complexity School composer whose work I
> engrave. I disagree with one of his major concepts, which is that the
> bars should be 3.0 cm wide and represent one second of music. He's
> really insistent on this. Personally I don't believe this helps the
> musicians at all, and music is not graph paper as far as I am concerned,
> speaking as a player.
> 
> I have tried for years to make equal, fixed width bars with proportional
> notation in Lilypond. With his music changing time signature sometimes
> every bar, I am utterly unable to achieve what he wants. The requirement
> is simple - fixed width bars of a specified size.
> 
> I have a vague idea that this concept goes completely against the design
> of the lilypond layout engine, and so it may be stupid to even want
> this. But much as I disagree with the musical justification for this,
> this topic does keep coming up on this list from time to time from
> others also.

From my memories of years ago, yes it does. Lilypond is intended to
produce music that is easy to read.

While "beauty" may seem a subjective concept, there are certain rules in
how we perceive beauty, and beautiful music by its very nature is
usually easy to read.

One of those rules is that ALL LINES SHOULD BE SUBTLY DIFFERENT. That
means, even if you have two lines with exactly the same notes, they
should not render exactly the same. To give a real-world example, my
wife has great difficulty reading books because she can't work out where
lines begin and end. That's why newspapers and others often use columns,
because that makes the end of one line and the beginning of the next
easy to track. Your composer friend is - intentionally or not - making
it very difficult for musicians to read his music because he is making
it very easy for them to get the lines muddled and get lost.

Unfortunately he is falling into the classic manager trap of telling
other people HOW to do their job. As a composer it is his job to tell
the musicians WHAT notes to play. If he insists on telling the musicians
HOW to play them, his music will very rapidly disappear as "unplayable",
unless and until some arranger removes all those silly layout rules.

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Producing scores for visually impaired and blind people

[Wols Lists]

On 14/09/19 10:50, David Kastrup wrote:
> Also I would imagine that learning by ear is pretty tricky for ensemble
> rather than solo work. 

Probably no harder than anything else ... I'm bad at remembering stuff,
but years ago I was told I had to learn a piece by heart because we were
playing on stage, and would be blinded by the lights. I don't think we
did a bad job ... :-)

(A brass band, we marched on from the wings, once round the stage, and
fanned out across the front facing the audience. And yes, we couldn't
see a thing ... :-)

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Detecting first and last pages of a score

[Wols Lists]

On 06/09/19 17:00, David Kastrup wrote:
> I am not saying "it never will be able to do" things like that but the
> mechanisms are not there even in rudimentary form, so the manner in
> which it may be done at some prospective future time is not clear.

Is this the sort of thing the editions engraver could handle? (I've
never used it - I don't know what it can do ...)

Okay, it would be a bit of work for every new document, but it would
avoid having to go in and edit the score every time.

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: frescobaldi extensions [was: python-ly, ly.indent]

[Wols Lists]

On 18/08/19 09:00, Urs Liska wrote:
> Hi Mason,
> 
> 18. August 2019 01:05, ma...@masonhock.com schrieb:
> 
>> > On 08/17, Urs Liska wrote:
>> > 
>>> >> ...
>> > 
>> > Thanks. While I personally prefer command line tools, I would consider
>> > turning this into a Frescobaldi extension if that would mean the
>> > difference between something only being useful to me versus potentially
>> > being useful to others. 
> OK. From my experience I'd say it is a worthwile but non-trivial effort to 
> make things generally useful and available. You always have to strike a 
> balance between enabling *arbitrary* use cases and imposing complex 
> configuration "costs" on the user.
> 
When doing this, it's always a good idea to think in terms of the
parochial and the universal. For example, in nature, it is a parochial
fact that mammals have four legs. It is a universal that legs come in
pairs. Confusing the two leads to pain:-(

My favourite computer example is why I love WordPerfect. Word contains
lots of parochial solution, WordPerfect tries to provide universal
solutions with maybe a parochial wizard. Labels, for example. Word
formats a table and populates it with a mailmerge - useless if you then
need to edit the label document. WordPerfect separates the concept of a
physical page (sheet of paper) from a logical page (user layout) and
provides a wizard to format the physical page in terms of logical pages.
So your logical page can be used for all sorts of things, labels, books
etc. And if you want to maintain a document of labels, it's easy - you
can insert pages, delete pages, do what you like.

So take the effort to try and make the fundamentals universal, and then
the users will find the configuration is simple and logical for their
parochial needs.

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Alternating text and music

[Wols Lists]

On 26/07/19 12:23, Peter Toye wrote:
> All,
> 
> Thanks very much for all the suggestions. I had asked for an _easy_ way!
> Also, I'm not 100% fussed about the exact layout as it's only for an
> example.

Just a thought ... can't lily chuck out png's? I've never used it, but
if it can chuck out one png per line it'll cost a little bit of effort
to assemble it in your word processor of choice, but you could import
them, and then put the text between the lines.

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Bug with transpose in functions

[Wols Lists]

On 12/07/19 19:04, Werner LEMBERG wrote:
> 
>> Functions like transpose act destructively on their argument, so you
>> need a copy or the original will get changed.  [...]
> 
> How can Joe User find out whether a function is acting destructively?
> 
Computer pedant here :-)

Functions do not have side effects, and for any given input they always
return the same output. So if this is a PROPER function, it cannot act
destructively :-)

Obviously it isn't, so it's technically a subroutine that returns a
value. Dunno how you tell the difference, but that's why you get
computer languages where all variables are "write once" - everything is
based on proper functions.

Maybe the documentation should make a point of saying whether functions
are "proper" or "improper". :-)

Cheers,
Wol


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: percent repeats (bug?)

[Wols Lists]

On 04/07/19 00:59, Christopher Heckman wrote:
> In a post/email sent out several months ago, Randy brought up some
> issues about percent repeats over more than two measures. He cited two
> issues, related to where the percent sign is placed and what it looks
> like.
> 
> I would like to add a third: line breaks aren't allowed in the middle
> of a \repeat percent. I discovered this when trying to set up a 4-bar
> repetition of a bass riff. A smaller example is:
> 
> \score {<<
> \new TabStaff { \repeat percent 5 { \repeat unfold 16 { c4 } } }
> \lyrics { \repeat unfold 20 "a very long bit of lyrics indeed!"1 }
>>> }
> 
> (Incidentally, I have tried to put a line break in the appropriate
> place, using the LSR and the manuals but gotten nowhere. A fix would
> be nice to have.)
> 
Just to chuck another spanner into the mix :-) if anybody tackles this,
the music I use never starts a line with a percent repeat. If there's a
line break, it repeats the bar at the start of the line before
continuing with the repeats.

Cheers,
Wol


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Two simultaneous mark events

[Wols Lists]

On 19/05/19 02:08, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> Why not just use markup for 'fine'? Position it as you wiil.

Because it doesn't make sense to use markup? It's a lot easier to
position something, if it's attached to its reference object. Otherwise
a minor change to the score will mess things up nicely!

In a different context, I hit this regularly with tempi at rehearsal
marks - because I separate layout from notes and re-use layout across
several parts, it's a nightmare when I have to use markup and attach
things to spacer rests, when I'd much rather attach multiple items to
the bar line.

This usually manifests itself in staircase markups just when I'm
struggling to cram as much music as possible into as small a space as
possible ..

Cheers,
Wol
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> On Sun, 19 May 2019 at 03:15, Gianmaria Lari  > wrote:
> 
> I'm often in this situation:
> 
> \version "2.21.0"
> fine = {
>   \once \override Score.RehearsalMark #'break-visibility =
> #'#(#t #t #f)
>   \once \override Score.RehearsalMark #'self-alignment-X = #RIGHT
>   \mark \markup \italic  "Fine"
> }
> 
> \fixed c' {
> c d e f \bar "|." \fine \break 
> \mark A c c c c
> }
> 
> 
> So, I would like the text "Fine" at the end of the first measure
> (and in this case at the end of the line) and the rehearsal mark "A"
> at the beginning of the next measure (and in this case at the
> beginning of the second line).
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> 


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: <>

[Wols Lists]

On 05/01/19 20:40, Aaron Hill wrote:
> But I don't think we ever lost a stand, so I can only imagine the
> conditions you are forced to play in.

Seaside bandstands :-)

Where if the band calls it off they don't get paid. You need to find the
organisers and get them to cancel it, and where do you find them on a
wet and windy British Summer Sunday afternoon?

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: <>

[Wols Lists]

On 05/01/19 20:20, Aaron Hill wrote:
> P.S.  I would like to add that, as a performer who has great disdain for
> annoying page turns, I will join you in the battle for promoting sane
> typesetting.  Slightly squished and/or "creative" notation is far better
> than wrestling with (and wasting) paper.

It's not disdain for page turns, it's for them being bdy impossible!
When we perform, our music is usually stuck to the stands with
everything we can lay our hands on to keep it there - it's not uncommon
for an attempt to turn the page to result in the music disappearing down
the field ... it has been known for the music to disappear down the
field taking the stand with it :-)

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: <>

[Wols Lists]

On 05/01/19 17:34, Aaron Hill wrote:
> On 2019-01-05 2:40 am, Wols Lists wrote:
>> On 04/01/19 18:41, Aaron Hill wrote:
>>>
I *H*A*T*E* about people who proclaim "This is
>> correct".
>>
>> Take my case - which would you choose between "follow the current
>> wisdom" and "music that is readable (and hence playable)". Note that
>> this *IS* an either/or choice! How often have I moaned on this list
>> because I need to over-ride lily's defaults because the result is
>> otherwise pretty much unplayable ...
> 
> I disagree.  The two options are not mutually exclusive--they are one
> and the same.  That is, I see following classical and modern wisdom as
> tools to aid in achieving what will be readable and playable.  But the
> goal is very much the latter, not the former...

They may not be mutually exclusive for you. But as you may remember, I
regularly struggle to eliminate page-breaks, and if that leads to
cramped, hard-to-read music so be it - the alternative is unplayable.
> 

> 
> The problem I have with something like Elements of Style is that the
> work is largely arbitrary yet presented as if it were based in fact. 
> Modern research and analysis of written works through history do not
> agree with Strunck and White's conclusions.  Based on that, one might
> all too quickly throw out the Elements; but putting aside the ego of the
> authors, there is still wisdom in its pages.  It is ultimately born out
> of understanding why and how a rule can be useful in different
> situations.  And to quote a cult classic, "Sometimes you have to know
> when to break the rules."
> 
> In the world of music notation, it would seem that Gould has filled a
> similar role.  I have seen many folks cite their work as the rational
> basis for engraving something a particular way.  It would be my approach
> to take this work not as "you must strictly adhere to these various
> commandments" but rather "while ideal to follow this path as closely as
> reasonable, stray from it should it make things clearer."
> 
> Given that, you should definitely feel free to experiment with notation
> and treat it like an artist who has much freedom with their brush.  If> 
> -- Aaron Hill
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

> your music is particularly unusual, perhaps an equally unusual engraving
> is most apropos.  And hopefully LilyPond is and will continue to be
> malleable enough to accommodate the whims of the unusual.

I agree with you, "Elements of Style", "Gould", "The Oxford English
Dictionary" are all necessary to *define* *standards* to make it easy
for us to understand each other :-)
> 
> But for matters of the not-so-unusual, have no disillusion your
> engraving (or writing) will be readily clear if you choose to stray too
> far from the path.
> 
?

But standards are of no use if applying them results in output that is
not "fit for purpose" as English law puts it ... :-)

Cheers,
Wol


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: <>

[Wols Lists]

On 04/01/19 18:41, Aaron Hill wrote:
> 
>> Yeesh, that is terrible.This is why it's important to follow good
>> notation
>> practice: I was so confused by this bad typesetting that I thought the
>> bar
>> was 6/4 time, and now my day is ruined.
> 
> Unless someone is doing academic work where it is critical for the
> typesetting to precisely match that of a reference work, all new
> typesetting ideally should follow the current wisdom of notation.  There
> is little reason to continue to propagate archaic and non-standard
> practices, especially if they are more likely to cause confusion.

This is exactly what I *H*A*T*E* about people who proclaim "This is
correct".

Take my case - which would you choose between "follow the current
wisdom" and "music that is readable (and hence playable)". Note that
this *IS* an either/or choice! How often have I moaned on this list
because I need to over-ride lily's defaults because the result is
otherwise pretty much unplayable ...

I make no comment about the current piece being discussed - it sounds
like it's incomprehensible to orchestral musicians, but why should
everybody be forced to speak "orchestra"? We don't all speak English, or
write in the Latin script!

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: [OT] Variations in ordinals and building floor numbers

[Wols Lists]

On 02/01/19 03:42, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> Never seen '*' in Australia.
> 
Same here in the UK.

QUITE often, the street level is either green, or noticeably raised, or
both, but I've come across several where the street exit is on "1" and
"G" takes you some place else ...

(And given my last job, I've come across several "LB" which stands for
"Loading Bay" :-)

Cheers,
Wol


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Flat flared hairpins

[Wols Lists]

On 31/12/18 13:29, Andrew Bernard wrote:
> American floors: 11 12 14 15
> English floors: 11 12 13 14
> 
> I saw this a lot when I worked in new York.

We get this in England too. I'm not aware of a missing 13th floor, but
the house numbers in my street go 9,11,15,17 ...
> 
> Andrew

Cheers,
Wol
> 
> 
> On Tue, 1 Jan 2019 at 00:07, Wols Lists  <mailto:antli...@youngman.org.uk>> wrote:
> 
> 
> American English floors:  first  second third  fourth
> English floors:   ground first  second third
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> lilypond-user mailing list
> lilypond-user@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
> 


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Flat flared hairpins

[Wols Lists]

On 31/12/18 12:55, David Kastrup wrote:

> 
> Natural language cardinals: zero   onetwothree
> Natural language ordinals: first  second third
> Scheme cardinals:   0  1  2  3
> Scheme ordinals:   0  1  2

American English floors:  first  second third  fourth
English floors:   ground first  second third
> 
> C is similar.  Any wonder that off-by-one errors are so popular?
> 
:-)

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: landscape printing and viewing

[Wols Lists]

On 09/09/18 23:55, Simon Albrecht wrote:
> On 09.09.2018 23:13, David Kastrup wrote:
>> Kieren MacMillan  writes:
>>> Hi Martin,
 \paper {
   #(set-paper-size "a4" 'landscape)
 }
>>> If I’m not mistaken, the correct incantation is
>>>
>>> \paper {
>>>   #(set-paper-size "a4landscape")
>>> }
>> That sets_only_  the papersize, not the orientation.  For the screen it
>> might be what you want.  Whether your printer driver is smart enough to
>> figure out what you want is a different question then.
> 
> It has to be, doesn’t it? #(set-paper-size "a4landscape" 'landscape)
> doesn’t help, because then it’s displayed wrong by both evince and
> PyQtPdfViewer (I don’t know its exact name, the one in Frescobaldi…).
> Can’t test printing right now.
> Although: I get furious every time I feed an A4 page into a normal copy
> machine (at my university) the wrong way and the damn thing isn’t able
> to figure it out, but goes exactly with the orthogonal relation and
> creates a cropped print. This is 2018, man… and that’s still happening.
> 
fwiw, I use the

#(set-default-paper-size "a4" 'landscape)

syntax and everything works just fine and normal for me. I use okular as
my pdf viewer. It seems to be a hard thing to get right, however,
because that cropped print you mention, I seem to get quite a lot with
firefox. If the damn web-page won't print properly losing stuff to the
right, I often select landscape, only to discover the paper prints
landscape fine, but the print itself is still cropped to portrait width!!!

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Proprietary Software term

[Wols Lists]

On 19/08/18 00:34, David Kastrup wrote:
> As any theoretical physicist will tell you, anything that involves
> actual hardware also is maths.

Are you telling me that maths PREscribes reality? Are you telling me
that Newton got it right?

If hardware is maths, then how comes physicists aren't creating the
reality we would like to live in?

Mathematics DEscribes reality. As I understand it, SCOTUS said that
anything that could be done by sweat of the brow, anything that could be
done by someone with pencil and paper and infinite time, is not
patentable. As such, any and all calculations are not patentable. Any
DEscription of reality is not patentable. LOGIC (and that includes
mathematics) is NOT PATENTABLE. (Doesn't prevent patent attorneys
trying, and succeeding :-(

The whole point of patents is that they describe what happens in
reality, what we usually do not understand of the maths, or how we tip
the maths to work in our favour.

I like to draw a little distinction between mathematics and science. A
mathematical proof says "this is logically correct". A scientific proof
says "this is not reality". Theoretical physicists aren't scientists,
they're mathematicians. Patents are there for technologists, for people
who deal with scientific proofs, not for mathematicians dealing with
mathematical proofs. A patent deals with "this is how we get reality to
do what we want", not with "this is what logic says should happen".

Newton is easy to prove MATHEMATICALLY CORRECT. He is also easy to prove
SCIENTIFICALLY WRONG.

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Proprietary Software term

[Wols Lists]

On 18/08/18 23:28, David Kastrup wrote:
> zip has been defined using patentable techniques (like
> https://www.google.com/patents/US5051745) but the implementations are
> usually unencumbered.

Just because it has been patented does not mean it is patentable :-(

Of course, the problem is persuading the Patent Offices (who are paid
based on the patents they *issue*) that the patent applications are
actually invalid.

(A file is just a big number, or a collection of numbers. Anything that
does not involve actual hardware is maths. None of that is patentable
under either the American or European legal system. Just wish we could
actually get the lawyers to recognise that :-(

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Proprietary Software term

[Wols Lists]

On 18/08/18 21:18, David Kastrup wrote:
>> "Undocumented proprietary format" doesn't express the intent which
>> > "lock-in" does. As David pointed out, patents can be used to protect
>> > a proprietary format, only I don't think that, for example, the exFAT
>> > filesystem is, in his words, a "strange case".

> A filesystem is not a file format.

What's the difference? As soon as you take the Unix "everything is a
file" approach, your filesystem IS a file format. I run VirtualBox - all
my filesystems really are files. Etc etc. Once you start digging, it's
all a distinction without a difference ...

(take a look at file containers, like zip, vorbis (or is it ogg), mp3
and mp4, etc. What IS the difference between a file and a filesystem?)

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Proprietary Software term

[Wols Lists]

On 18/08/18 12:51, David Kastrup wrote:
>> Indeed, that wasn't expressed too well. What I meant is that
>> > CodaMusic's policy to use binary non-released (for some time even
>> > encrypted) file formats strongly discouraged anyone to make a program
>> > use these files.

> That's more than just lock-in.  Don't know a good expression, but that's
> more like locked-away (don't know a good expression for it) since the
> format is designed to keep the user from being able to access his own
> information (and/or that of others).  In my book, that's a no-no since
> it renders archiving worthless.
> 
Undocumented proprietary format.

I compare WordPerfect with Word ... Word's format seems to change with
almost every release, the changes being in many cases apparently to
interfere with compatibility with other programs.

While WordPerfect's format, although proprietary, was well-documented,
with defined extensibility, and a guarantee of compatibility. To the
extent that WordPerfect 6, released in 1994, is to the best of my
knowledge capable of editing and saving - WITHOUT DAMAGING IT - a file
created by the latest version. So any WordPerfect-compatible program
should be able to do the same.

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: an "odd" accidental problem...

[Wols Lists]

On 27/07/18 14:10, David Kastrup wrote:
> Torsten Hämmerle  writes:
> 
>> B~M wrote
>>> It appeared in the "Fantasy Etudes for
>>> Viola" written by
>>> Lillian Fuchs who was a significant contributor to Viola in the USA.
>>
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> Thanks for this background information.
>> Lillian Fuchs' expertise is beyond all possible doubt, and I apologize for
>> suspecting ignorance. 
>> Moreover, her 16 Fantasy Etudes have been published by a renowned company,
>> and so this strange orthography may be well-founded.
>> It'd be interesting to learn about her motives, but, unfortunately, she
>> can't answer anymore.
> 
> Enharmonics in violin/viola music can be used for maintaining a
> position-dependent correspondence between fingering and notation in
> preference over scale and notation in the rare situation where those
> differ (usually being able to play/notate a diatonic run aligns those
> two objectives pretty well on those instruments).
> 
> I don't know the music in question, so I cannot vouch for either.  Just
> a suggestion of what might motivate some string composers to choose
> particular notation.
> 
Or does she want the music played in that particular tonic scale ...
bear in mind enharmonic tuning is assumed because that's the way you
have to tune a keyboard, but not all instruments are (or can play)
enharmonic. And in those cases F-flat is very definitely not E. Hint -
if any notes are written as resting your finger on the string but not
pushing the string against the neck ... a not uncommon technique in
guitar playing.

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: an "odd" accidental problem...

[Wols Lists]

On 27/07/18 15:30, Torsten Hämmerle wrote:
> Anthony Youngman-2 wrote
>> Well, lilypond is about the only place I ever normally see it! :-) YMMV
>> :-)
> 
> Here's a non-LilyPond excerpt of Tchaikovsky's Nocturne op. 19 no. 4:
>  
> After the cadenza, the key signature changes and the E-flat is being
> cancelled.
> This is the "old Russian standard" where the cancellation signs go before
> the barline.
> 
> LilyPond's default corresponds with the traditional practice (see Gould),
> the contemporary practice will do without cancelling signs, you normally
> won't see them in modern editions.
> 
Which is exactly my point about "step outside your normal music and
you'll see a completely different setup".

My "normal" is the key signature when the key changes. THAT'S IT. So I
have to make sure I know what the key is - the lack of a key signature
at the start of the line does not mean C major ... :-)

(My normal is that space is at a premium - if you can get more notes in
by leaving the key signature out, you do!)

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: lilypond-user Digest, Vol 186, Issue 108

[Wols Lists]

On 22/05/18 21:11, Arle Lommel wrote:
lmost right, but doesn’t function quite as Hindemith’s
> notation does:
> 
>   * The Hindemith editions use time signatures /both/ above and in line,
> but never at the same time. They serve different purposes. The
> snipped removes the ability to do the in-line time signatures
> because the time signature engraver is removed from the main staffs.
> Easy enough to put in, but then I need to brush up enough to
> selectively control where a time signature appears
>   * Hindemith also limits the effect of a superior time signature to a
> single measure. The following measure reverts (with nothing
> displayed) to the original meter. So replicating the Schott practice
> would mean also hiding the time signature following such a measure.
> 
> 
> But this is very useful as a suggestion of an approach. Maybe I can find
> a way to selectively hide/show time signature changes in each context to
> get what I want.
> 
Another possible approach, for the temporary time changes, is can you
display the new time signature without actually setting it? (Ie if the
piece is in 2/4, you display 3/4 but lilypond still thinks its a 2/4 bar
as before with no change.

Then just use \times 2/3 {} for that bar so the notation displays correctly.

Okay, that won't work for midi, but for scores it might be a good solution.

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Several questions concerning scheme-music-function

[Wols Lists]

On 27/05/18 11:50, Robert Schmaus wrote:
> The analogy is probably not perfect because investing time in Scheme
> would benefit my overall Lilypond abilities, I guess.

Learning different ways to think is ALWAYS valuable. Scheme requires a
different mindset from most languages, so learning it WILL be valuable.

(Says he who also can't get to grips with it :-)

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Several questions concerning scheme-music-function

[Wols Lists]

On 27/05/18 10:49, Robert Schmaus wrote:
> From that thread, I take away the comfort that I'm not the only one with
> Scheme-problems.
> Now, I can live with that - most of the times I don't have to customise
> anything anyway. It's just, that with Scheme, I know, I'll never get
> into it, too.
> 
> 
> Ok, thanks again for the references. I think for now, I simply stay
> within the "out of the box" Lilypond limits. I'd have to invest hours of
> learning Scheme - that's not an option for the near future, I'm afraid.

My brother used to hate emacs when he started CompSci - he thought it
was horrendous. Then he got used to it - and realised why it's so good.

And Emacs is written (and programmed) in Lisp.

I bang on about Word and WordPerfect in the same vein. Word was dumbed
down to appeal to the "man in the street" who couldn't type. I *hate* it
- it's a mess. WordPerfect was written for the man who knew how to type
- it's intuitive, it's simple, it works like a dream. But give it to the
boss, rather than the secretary, and they just can't get it to work.
Lisp/scheme/Emacs are the same - they're wonderful tools in the hands of
the PROFESSIONAL that knows how to use them.

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Intervals enharmony question

[Wols Lists]

On 04/05/18 17:14, Paul Scott wrote:
> On Fri, May 04, 2018 at 11:00:59AM +0100, Wols Lists wrote:
>> On 30/04/18 22:46, Torsten Hämmerle wrote:
>>> Hans Åberg-2 wrote
>>>> I suspect the least pitch-flexible instrument is the oboe, as one
>>>> typically uses that for a tuning reference pitch.
>>>
>>> Yep, and just to keep up tradition, it's the oboe player who operates the
>>> digital tuning device. ;D
>>>
>> Until you get the player (or novice conductor!) who tries to tune the
>> brass section to an A !!!
>>
>> I've had it happen - someone who insisted I tune my trombone to an A ...
> 
> Nevertheless any orchestra I've heard or played in in the US tunes to an A.
> 
> Bands tune to Bb and sometimes also to A.
> 
So if their A is out of tune, which tuning slide do they adjust? Hint -
there are TWO slides involved in an A ...

Likewise, on the 'bone, I can't tell you where I place the slide for an
A, I just "know", and a lot of that is probably micro-feedback - I hear
the note and my hand/arm just move slightly to get it in tune - tuning
to an A means I'll never adjust my tuning slide because it's actually
quite hard to play out-of-tune.

Cheers,
Wol


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Tempo & Markup

[Wols Lists]

On 04/05/18 12:34, foxfanfare wrote:
> But I was wondering if I could be able to write a small function for it.
> Is it possible to change the default command "2 = 76-84" so it will take
> my own markup preferences?

Almost certainly ...

I do the same thing with the header block on my music. Brass band music
always puts the instrument on the left, orchestras (and lilypond) put it
in the centre under the title.

Find the standard code in lilypond. Take a copy of the relevant
function, and modify it to suit you. Then #include your version in the
relevant part of your music. For example, my function that I've modified
belongs in the paper block, so I include my modified version in every
paper block. Yours probably belongs in the Score block, so include it in
every score block.

Or you could replace the standard version, but that will cause problems
with upgrades ...

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Intervals enharmony question

[Wols Lists]

On 04/05/18 11:34, Aaron Hill wrote:
> As a piano/keyboards/bass/guitar player here who has only played with an
> "orchestra" for high school musicals many moons ago, you have me
> wondering now:
> 
> From what I thought happened, the oboist tunes to the piano if one is
> used or to a tuner otherwise.  From that point, I assume all the
> woodwinds can match the A and tune themselves.  Strings usually have an
> open A, and then they can tune the rest by fourths/fifths.  When and how
> do the brass typically get their reference pitch?

The majority of brass instruments are Bb instruments, so obviously,
that's the main reference pitch. In my concert band, we tune to the
oboe's Bb, or Eb and F for the Eb and F instruments.

In a brass band we just tune to the principal cornet. Quite what we do
with the Eb instruments, I'm not sure, since I've never played one and
it's never crossed my mind to notice ... :-)

(Oh - and something to watch for with *OLD* brass instruments, if they
were band instruments they are typically tuned to something
approximating Vienna pitch - they are noticeably sharp, something like
A=460. Causes fun when you mix old and new instruments ...)

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Intervals enharmony question

[Wols Lists]

On 30/04/18 22:46, Torsten Hämmerle wrote:
> Hans Åberg-2 wrote
>> I suspect the least pitch-flexible instrument is the oboe, as one
>> typically uses that for a tuning reference pitch.
> 
> Yep, and just to keep up tradition, it's the oboe player who operates the
> digital tuning device. ;D
> 
Until you get the player (or novice conductor!) who tries to tune the
brass section to an A !!!

I've had it happen - someone who insisted I tune my trombone to an A ...

Cheers,
Wol


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Intervals enharmony question

[Wols Lists]

On 04/05/18 00:48, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
> I didn’t get that far into trumpet playing — I switched to trombone as soon 
> as I could, because it better suited my embouchure — but I got far enough to 
> realize that I could do a *lot* of "tuning" with those limited valves and 
> slides. Based on that experience, I feel sure that if I got [a lot?] better, 
> I would be able to play in equal or just temperament, as desired.

You sound like me :-) I started on the cornet and switched to trombone. ...

But I'm looking at it as a physicist. HOW do you tune all those notes to
equal temperament on an instrument that does not have sufficient
adjustable nobs to do so? It can't be done.

What you CAN do, what I'm sure you've done, and what I see happen all
the time in my band, is that players can adjust - "bend" - the tone with
their embouchure. And that bending can be massive - I've heard of a
trombone teacher who suddenly realised the boy he was teaching could
only reach fourth position, but was successfully playing a bottom B
natural! (4th position is a D for non-trombonists.) The lad was bending
the note three semitones!

So I'm not saying you can't play equal temperament, or whatever you
want. I'm just saying that you can't tune the instrument to it, you just
have to "play it by ear" and "bend" the note.

Which is why my comment/question basically boils down to "what
*practical* difference does it make?". And the answer seems to be "None,
in *most* cases". Which is why I'm getting a little het up because so
many people seem to be coming across as "everyone should do it because
it matters for my corner case".

Sorry if that upsets people, but if a question is about a monotonic
instrument, don't drag your chord-playing corner case into the
discussion. (I was left with the strong feeling that this is exactly
what happened with my post - everybody discussed their corner case and
nobody actually bothered to read my question. And if I do that to other
people, feel free to call me on it ... :-)

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Intervals enharmony question

[Wols Lists]

On 30/04/18 20:54, Malte Meyn wrote:
> 
> 
> Am 30.04.2018 um 15:50 schrieb Hans Åberg:
>> But orchestral instruments depart from Pythagorean tuning, not E12, so
>> they are not equivalent, differing by a comma of about 20 cents.
> 
> Which orchestral instruments do you refer to? All instruments that I
> know good enough use equal temperament or a good approximation. I don’t
> know an orchestral instrument that has different ways to play E♭ and D♯ …
> 
You're confusing equal temperament with monotonic.

Just because an instrument uses the same fingering for Eb and D# (on a
trumpet that would be first valve, I believe), doesn't mean that the
note is equal temperament, or an accurate Eb or D#. And it's a pretty
safe bet that if the player plays the two notes an octave apart they
almost certainly aren't an accurate octave ... an Eb, a D#, and the
equal temperament fudge are three distinct notes, and your trumpet is
probably playing a fourth. True, they're all ALMOST the same ... :-)

Cheers,
Wol


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Intervals enharmony question

[Wols Lists]

On 30/04/18 20:32, Hans Åberg wrote:
> 
>> On 30 Apr 2018, at 21:11, Wols Lists <antli...@youngman.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>> On 30/04/18 14:50, Hans Åberg wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 29 Apr 2018, at 22:17, Jacques Menu Muzhic <imj-muz...@bluewin.ch> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> OK, now everything is clear, it’s precisely on jazz chords I’m working.
>>>
>>> FYI, I recall the Mehegan books on jazz improvisation applying enharmonic 
>>> equivalents freely. The Blatter books on instrumentation suggests applying 
>>> them to simplify for harpists, which will save time and money. But 
>>> orchestral instruments depart from Pythagorean tuning, not E12, so they are 
>>> not equivalent, differing by a comma of about 20 cents.
>>>
>> Which actually matters how?
>>
>> Apart from the violins and the trombone, most instruments just play the
>> pitch to which they are tuned, so Bbb and A are the same fingering, and
>> the same note.
>>
>> Yes I know most decent wind musicians can "bend" the tuning, but surely
>> they'll bend it by ear into tune, not to some arbitrary note name.
> 
> One has to adapt the pitch on every note played, and the reference is 
> typically the string section, which in turn is tuned in Pythagorean, but can 
> adapt into 5-limit Just Intonation if the music played follows the 
> Traditional Harmony rules. That becomes more difficult in distant keys.
> 
> 
WHAT STRING SECTION!?!?!?

Yes, I happened to mention violins as instruments which can tune a note
"on the fly", as can my instrument the trombone, but the majority of
instruments can NOT.

Plus, I'm unaware of Jazz ensembles having a string section - they might
have a double bass though, and the ensembles I play with (concert or
brass bands, I used to play in a big band) never include strings.

So, the question remains. Why - FOR THE MAJORITY OF INSTRUMENTS WHICH
ARE MONOTONIC AND DO NOT "TUNE ON THE FLY" - does it matter whether a
note is an A or a Bbb? There's sweet fa the player can do about it, anyway.

I remember having a similar "heated argument" with a guy on another
mailing list who insisted that instruments - let's say a trumpet -
should be tuned to equal temperament and any player who couldn't do it
should be sacked. It's not *possible* to tune a brass instrument to
equal temperament - it has at max 5 tuning slides to tune 12 pitches and
typically about 40 notes!

I take the point of various people that, for SOME instruments, you
really do want an obvious chord structure, but for most instruments,
especially those that cannot play chords, do the players really give a
monkeys? They just pitch-bend the tune to their neighbours.

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Intervals enharmony question

[Wols Lists]

On 30/04/18 14:50, Hans Åberg wrote:
> 
>> On 29 Apr 2018, at 22:17, Jacques Menu Muzhic  wrote:
>>
>> OK, now everything is clear, it’s precisely on jazz chords I’m working.
> 
> FYI, I recall the Mehegan books on jazz improvisation applying enharmonic 
> equivalents freely. The Blatter books on instrumentation suggests applying 
> them to simplify for harpists, which will save time and money. But orchestral 
> instruments depart from Pythagorean tuning, not E12, so they are not 
> equivalent, differing by a comma of about 20 cents.
> 
Which actually matters how?

Apart from the violins and the trombone, most instruments just play the
pitch to which they are tuned, so Bbb and A are the same fingering, and
the same note.

Yes I know most decent wind musicians can "bend" the tuning, but surely
they'll bend it by ear into tune, not to some arbitrary note name.

Cheers,
Wol


___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: please direct to manual; different time signatures for different instruments

[Wols Lists]

On 25/03/18 23:39, Ben wrote:
> On 3/25/2018 6:24 PM, Colin Campbell wrote:
>> On 2018-03-25 12:19 PM, Sam Frybyte wrote:
>>> I don't even know what this is called so finding it in the manual has
>>> me stymied.
>>> I am using version 2.18.2
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>> I believe someone has already directed you to polymetric notation, but
>> here is a *very* rough piece using scaled durations, more whimsical
>> that skilled, I'm afraid, but it might suggest something.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Colin
> 
> Thanks for sharing this file with us! It's interesting to look at how
> you approach polymetric projects...
> 
> PS. I think you have a small typo in your paper block, I got an error
> with it here :)
> 
> system-system-spacing.basic-distance = #18
> 
> instead of
> system-system-spacing  #'basic-distance = #18
> 
Just guessing, but ...

I hit a problem like that. Check the version that it was written for,
compared with the version you're using. I think you'll find the syntax
has changed.

"man convert-ly" :-)

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Variables and Repetition

[Wols Lists]

On 25/03/18 04:13, John A wrote:
> I am entering the notes in relative mode, and when I engrave the score,
> if the ending notes of the figure are too high or low, on the second
> repetition the whole figure will be an octave too high or too low. On
> the next repetition, it goes an octave higher or lower. If I put in a '
> or , to try to bring it back into place, it throws of the initial
> instance of the figure.

This is exactly what I've done. Other people don't recommend doing that
,.. enter the notes in absolute pitch.

Or do what Han Wen did for me, and look at \resetOctave (or is it
\resetRelativeOctave - can't remember). Either way, there is a command
to reset the pitch back to a specific octave.

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: get current bar number

[Wols Lists]

On 23/03/18 06:21, Jan-Peter Voigt wrote:
> If you are going to write an engraver you can find some informations in
> the archive.

Also look at the rehearsal mark engraver. One of the options is to use
the bar number as the rehearsal mark, so that might give you some ideas.

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user

Re: Transposing Keyless Brass Parts

[Wols Lists]

On 17/03/18 23:54, Glassmenagerie wrote:
> By accident I came across another possible solution.
> 
> \score { 
> 
> 
>   \transpose c g { 
>   \relative g' { 
>   \time 2/4 
>   
>   g8[-.\p g ( aes ) aes] ( 
>   g g4 ) g8 ( 
>   f ) f4 f8 ( 
>   g\<[ ) g ( f\> ees]\! ) 
>   d4 ( c 
>   bes2 ) 
>   
>   \bar "|." 
>   
>   } 
>   } 
> }
> 
> This seems to work for the notes.  Any reason not to do this ?  Also there's
> no key signature.  The effect is to transpose up 7 intervals.

This is close to what I do, and I have to regularly transpose parts
between Bb-treble and concert-bass.

Bear in mind that lily does not assume western tonal music, so when you
say "transpose" it doesn't take scales into account - it just shifts
everything by that interval.

If you need to print stuff out in multiple pitches (like I do with my Bb
and concert parts), it's easy to put the notes in a variable wrapped in
a transpose, and then print it out wrapping the variable in a different
transpose. Just have some scheme for a consistent "scale" in your
variable - I make sure all my variables are internally in concert pitch.

Cheers,
Wol

___
lilypond-user mailing list
lilypond-user@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user