Re: [WSG] Image markup clarification
Robin, since you are using background images, I assume that the images are meaningless, and only for decoration reasons. Therefore you do not need alt attributes there. It is true that alt attributes are a little piece of the search engines algorithms, which can boost a bit your rankings, but they are not there for stuffing with keywords. And for the minimal boosting, it is not worth to spoil your clean code. That is a fact! Work on more important on-site and off-site factors for achieving higher rankings. The golden rule in SEO is: Optimize for engines, with humans in mind! Best, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Business Consultant Webnauts Net SEO Workers (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net SEO Workers (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 http://www.webnauts.net http://www.seoworkers.com Robin @ Xplore.net wrote: Happy New Year Group, Could someone please clarify for me the best way to markup an image in a template, take a header image for example. In the interest of keeping structure from content I have recently been using background images wherever possible to keep my markup as clean as possible but I have been reading an article on the importance of the alt text for SEO. Is there a definitive answer? I want the best search engine rankings but I also want clean markup. **Robin ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Multi language web sites
Hi there, You might would like to try this: link title=The site in French type=text/html rel=alternate hreflang=fr href=http://someplace.com/fr/; More: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/links.html#h-12.3 Here is also some more useful info about this multi-language support too: http://www.indiawebdevelopers.com/technology/multilanguage_support.asp If you are also concerned about Google and duplicated content issues in such cases, you might would like to check this too: http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2006/12/deftly-dealing-with-duplicate-content.html Best wishes, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Business Consultant Webnauts Net SEO Workers (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net SEO Workers (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 http://www.webnauts.net http://www.seoworkers.com Kepler Gelotte wrote: Hello, I had a question about creating multi-language web sites and best practices. Is it better to create two separate directories with the pages and images duplicated for each language, or is it best to try a database solution using meta tags that will be replaced on the server depending on the language selected? Maybe there is another approach all together? I would think the database solution would be more flexible but could get out of hand quickly just with the number of meta tags required. The web site I am concerned about has to support 2 languages only (French/English). Any comments are appreciated. Regards, Kepler Gelotte http://www.neighborwebmaster.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Does this hurt accessibility
Dear members, We are thinking of implementing this service http://www.snap.com/about/spa1A.php on our web site, and our question is, if you think that it can hurt our site accessibility in someway? We sure will implement the noscript tag if that solves the problem. Thanks a lot for your kind suppport. Best wishes, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Business Consultant Webnauts Net SEO Workers (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net SEO Workers (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 http://www.webnauts.net http://www.seoworkers.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation question
Thank you all so far for your kind comments and suggestions. To be honest I would prefer making those skip links visible, as I mention in my own article here http://www.webnauts.net/skip-to-main-content.html But on my new web site http://www.seoworkers.com as I previously mentioned, I did not want to have them visible, because I felt like they were hurting my design. A member of my team Dan Johnson came up with an idea for sighted keyword users (with tabbing), which he only implement on the homepage (index.html) so far, and it works fine with Firefox, but we did not manage yet to get work in Opera and IE. We also changed the position of the skip links. 1. Logo 2. h1 3. Skip links 4. ... Therefore I would like to ask here, what do you think about the technique and the positioning of the skip links, and if someone can give us a css tip (no Javascript if possible) for the above browser compatibility problems. Thanks a lot again in advance, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Business Consultant Webnauts Net SEO Workers (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net SEO Workers (U.S. Office) Daniel S. Johnson 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 http://www.webnauts.net http://www.seoworkers.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Skip Navigation question
Dear members, I would like to ask your opinion about the use of the Skip to Main Content and Skip to Sub Navigation links. We recently designed our second web site http://www.seoworkers.com and as we did not want to have the links visible, we have hidden them with CSS techniques. My question though is, where would be better to have those links. Before, or after the logo of the page? Thank your very much in advance for your kind support. Best wishes, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Business Consultant Webnauts Net SEO Workers (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net SEO Workers (U.S. Office) Daniel S. Johnson 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 http://www.webnauts.net http://www.seoworkers.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SiteAdvisor.com
Hi Dan, you forgot to mention that they have an extension for Firefox too, and the best of all is, that our site is flagged with red, because we have been linking to WebAIM www.webaim.org, and we had to delete all our links to them too. Best, John Dan Johnson wrote: Greetings Fellow Standardistas, Tonight, My colleague and I had to remove all links to the WebStandardsGroup.com web site from our own site. Why, might you ask? Here are the nasty details. McAfee has created a tool called SiteAdvisor which rates whether or not pages are good, bad, or marginal, based on installation of spyware/adware, generating spam e-mails, etc. Oddly enough, the WSG site made it into the marginal category, being flagged with a bright yellow exclamation point rather than the green checkmark or the dreaded red X. This seems to be due to the fact that SiteAdvisor's software entered its e-mail address to join the group. Their software considers the fact that it received 192 e-mails in the following week to be evidence that the WSG page generates e-mail spam for submitted addresses. The SiteAdvisor tool integrates into Internet Explorer, placing a colorful icon next to search results. Of course, no one wants nasty spam or spyware, so they won't click on yellow or red links. Isn't that nice of McAffee? We had another link on our site to a red site. It is a red site because it includes some advertising of a less-than pleasant reputation. By association, our site also became red. Guilt by association. Joe McCarthy would be proud. Big Brother is, indeed, watching. -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SiteAdvisor.com
There are users who use that. We did not know this tool, until we got an email through our site contact form today(name, etc hidden respecting their privacy): You have been contacted by: Roy (xxx:xxx) from Ip Address: xxx.xxx.xxx.xx with Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://xxx.xxx.net Locale: en Comments: Thought you should know: http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/webnauts.net?ref=safeaff_id=0 If you install their extension, make a search for something at google, and you will also see what happens. Thats all I can tell so far. Best, John Christian Montoya wrote: On 10/13/06, Dan Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Fellow Standardistas, Tonight, My colleague and I had to remove all links to the WebStandardsGroup.com web site from our own site. Why, might you ask? Here are the nasty details. McAfee has created a tool called SiteAdvisor which rates whether or not pages are good, bad, or marginal, based on installation of spyware/adware, generating spam e-mails, etc. People *use* this? -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Active link bug
There seems to be a minor bug with the active link highlighting on our web site: http://www.webnauts.net. If I click on blog, directory or forum, and then use the back button in my browser to go back to Home, it still highlights the link that I clicked on to get there. Can someone help me out? I really cannot see whats wrong there. Thanks a lot for your kind support in advance, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] html validation: exactly what is it good for?
We Standards are good for SEO (Search Engine Optimzation) too! You might would like to check two threads running at WebProWorld Forums. One I started myself: http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=65123 and an another interesting one here: http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=64982 Side Note: I would also appreciate if any Web Standards Advocates would give me a hand there. They give me a hard time there. Best, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net Richard Czeiger wrote: There are a number of reasons, but one basic simple one is that it's like Spell Check. Use it to make sure you are a good programmer (if nothing else) rather than a sloppy one. Forget the fact that if other developers both within your team and out of it ever come across your code and it's all over the shop, then you won't look too good. Forget about the fact that you want your sites to be future proof and perhaps work with more advanced technologies later. In the end, it's about being the best you can be. If the Validators picks up a little error that you overlooked then it's just more professional to go in and correct your 'spelling'. can you imagime what is fdould look like if i woryte copde thjat was messy? R :o) - Original Message - From: Shlomi Asaf To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 2:49 PM Subject: [WSG] html validation: exactly what is it good for? Hi I have a question that crossed my mind, and i wish to get help from you guys: HTML Validation- what is it good for? I try to find the disadvantages of a non validated site against one validated, and let me try to explain what i mean. If i build a website, according to his declaration - let say Strict XHTML, and its answering all the roles of Strict Xhtml, but its not valid cause, for example, i haven't used to surround values, or i haven't closed single tags using Slash ( /), but other wise i did everything by the scheme. What can be the damage? If i open the site and see that it works on my target browsers, why i need the validation for? what do i benefit from it? It says it helps me improve my SEO, but i see all the first results at Google, for lets say Forex keyword, and none of them are valid. I assume the main price is time rendering cost, but what can be else? Thank You. Shlomi.A ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] html validation: exactly what is it good for?
I would recommend you to also have a look at a very good thread at the WebProWorld Forums about this issue: http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=64189 I love it. Best, John Shlomi Asaf wrote: Hi I have a question that crossed my mind, and i wish to get help from you guys: HTML Validation- what is it good for? I try to find the disadvantages of a non validated site against one validated, and let me try to explain what i mean. If i build a website, according to his declaration - let say Strict XHTML, and its answering all the roles of Strict Xhtml, but its not valid cause, for example, i haven't used to surround values, or i haven't closed single tags using Slash ( /), but other wise i did everything by the scheme. What can be the damage? If i open the site and see that it works on my target browsers, why i need the validation for? what do i benefit from it? It says it helps me improve my SEO, but i see all the first results at Google, for lets say Forex keyword, and none of them are valid. I assume the main price is time rendering cost, but what can be else? Thank You. Shlomi.A ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Reccomended Accessible Websites
Jason, maybe you can have a look at my web site too: http://www.webnauts.net Who know's. At least I did almost my best so far. Best, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net Jason Bayly wrote: Hi All I’m championing accessible site design here in our office and have a couple of jobs coming up with priority one W3C compliancy as a requirement. Can anyone suggest any sites out there that are best examples of accessible site design? Something professionally designed that caters to all users. I realise the WCAG guidelines are old, and there’s a lot of techniques in use that give even better end results. I haven’t been able to find anything that’s inspirational and looks as good as non compliant sites can do. So any leads on some highly accessible eye candy appreciated. Cheers Jason *Jason Bayly* Senior Developer **d: **(02) 9274 8061 **p:** (02) 9274 8000 **f:** (02) 9274 8099 **m: **0425 222 325 **w:** www.newgency.com http://www.newgency.com/ **Newgency Pty Ltd** Web | Multimedia | eMarketing *Address:* 224 Riley Street Surry Hills, NSW 2010 Sydney, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Accessibility Usability problems?
If I implement in my print.css
a:after {content: ( attr(href) ) }
do I also need to use for my internal pages absolute instead of relative
URLs too?
Thanks,
John
Matthew Pennell wrote:
On 6/23/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I disagree - printed output is completely non-interactive. Links should
display the full URL wherever possible, but there is no need to
underline them.
a:after {
content: ( attr(href) ) ;
}
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
--
John S. Britsios
Web Architect Marketing Consultant
Webnauts Net (Main Office)
Koblenzer Str. 37A
D-33613 Bielefeld
Webnauts Net (U.S. Office)
5 Ivanhoe Drive
Urbana IL 61802
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web address: http://www.webnauts.net
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
[WSG] Accessibility Usability problems?
Dear WSG members, 1. Someone wrote me in a German forum that the tab order of my homepage is horrible: http://www.webnauts.net I did though avoid using tabindex, to avoid known conflicts. Would you agree with that? If you do, where and in which order would you implement them? 2. He also said that I must use back to top links. Would you agree with that? I was thinking of doing that, but I have not implemented yet. But if I would have done that already, I would have added only one link at the end of the main content, back to the main navigation. What do you think about that? 3. Also he said, you should have a glossary for acronym/abbr-tags, because the title is only visible, if you use a mouse. Persons who only use a keyboard or can't use a mouse don't see the title. Is there any good solution to solve this problem? Do I really need to create an extra Glossary page? 4. At last he mentioned, that after making a print preview, he could see that the abbr-tag was underlined on the page and that I should remove this. I would appreciate very much your feedback. Best wishes, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Accessibility Usability problems?
Hi Susan, Thanks for you kind feedback. By the way, where can't you tab there? And where would you implement the tabindex? Thanks, John Susan R. Grossman wrote: 1. Someone wrote me in a German forum that the tab order of my homepage I agree that tab order is very important and you can't tab to some of your navigation that I would expect to get to in the first few tab places. 2. He also said that I must use back to top links. Would you agree with that? No, I don't feel they're needed because more is seen at today's resolution in today's browsers and those that can't can scroll. I don't feel it effects accssibilty or usability - and I don't like having extra links for a screen reader to have to read out, you certainly have enough links! 3. Also he said, you should have a glossary for acronym/abbr-tags, because the title is only visible, if you use a mouse. I don't agree that it needs a glossary, but puttin ghte entire logo in a background without textually declaring the name of the site isn't accesible to me. 4. At last he mentioned, that after making a print preview, he could see that the abbr-tag was underlined on the page and that I should remove this. Doesn't matter on a printed page IMO Susan R. Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Document Outline Problem?
Dear WSG members, Testing our homepage www.webnauts.net with the W3C Markup Validator here http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webnauts.net%2Fcharset=%28detect+automatically%29doctype=Inlineoutline=1verbose=1 I got the message: If this does not look like a real outline, it is likely that the heading tags are not being used properly. (Headings should reflect the logical structure of the document; they should not be used simply to add emphasis, or to change the font size.) Can someone tell me if I, or the validator is doing something wrong? Thanks a lot in advance for your kind support, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Empty spans - semantics and accessibility question
Hello everybody. I want to use empty spans for positioning Eye-candy images on my site. Would this violate semantics and accessibility, if it is the best solution for our visitors and for ourselves? Thanks, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web site images question
First of all I would like to thank you all for your kind contribution. Things got very complicated, because of all pros and conts, so I thought of having a look again, what W3C recommends. So I have visited the HTML Techniques for Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0 here http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#image-text-equivalent and I was surprised to find there an example, that is 100% identical to one of the images of my site. I have a magnifying glass image for SEO, and W3Cs example there was: img src=magnifyingglass.gif alt=Search According to their example, and the advice of Joe Clark about titles: if |alt| and |title| have the same text, enclose the |title| in brackets, I thought the best solution could be: img src=/images/accessibility.jpg alt=Accessibility title=[Accessibility] / img src=/images/seo.jpg alt=Search title=[Search] / img src=/images/seo.jpg alt=Usability title=[Usability] / img src=/images/certificate.jpg alt=Training title=[Training] / What do you think about this option? Thanks again, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web site images question
David Dixon wrote: img src=/images/accessibility.jpg width=100 height=89 alt=The imagery of a person on a wheelchair is generally considered a symbol for accessibility title=An image of a wheelchair: the symbol for accessibility How is that alt text *relevant* to the content at all? Relevant to the content? From your own list of resources the alt attribute should be a textual alternative for the meaning of the image. It has no more relevance to the content than the image itself, and as the image's purpose is to show the user that the wheelchair is a symbol for accessibility (with further advisory explanation from the title element), then I believe the above example is perfectly valid. But isn't the alt text attribute of the above example too long? 91 characters inculding spaces? I always take care not have more that 60 characters including spaces, and in the worse case no more than 70. Ive even run tests against JAWS and the nice FF extension Fangs to ascertain the behaviour of the screen reader for this particular example, and as neither gives any indication of the advisory title text, then I believe the alt attribute should be giving the same message as the full image (ie the image plus the advisory information). Of course this is personal preference, but as Ive stated earlier, ensuring a page is accessible should be trying to make the page as usable and understandable for a less-abled person as for an abled person. I was just wondering, if novice Internet users would really understand the meaning of the graphics, and I thought it would be necessary using at least the alt tag. Or? img src=mycomputer alt=An image of a computer title=Shows the disk drives and hardware connected to this computer My Computer img src= alt=The image of a folder and magnifying glass is the symbol for Windows Explorer title=Displays the files and folders on your computer. Windows Explorer img src=word alt=The Microsoft Word icon is a blue W inside a square title=Create and edit text and graphics in letters, reports, Web pages, or e-mail messages by using Microsoft Office Word. Microsoft Word I dont find these examples relevant to the context of my example. For my example, the image had a context for which is was designed... the content regarding accessibility. These examples of desktop icons, have no such context. They are their own context, in addition, their usage is vastly different, in a web type example, these would be links, with the image itself being a graphical representation of the text beside it, much like my earlier example of using the accessibility logo as a background to a header. As with that previous example, I would mark up the image differently than the image in this example. Also, as for Patrick's nth degree explanation, I dont see the point in explaining every single aspect of the image itself to verbatim. Enough to explain the purpose of the image itself is quite sufficient. Also, my alt text does not describe the image itself (ie i dont say this is a symbol of a yellow person in a yellow wheelchair), but saying what the image describes a person in a wheelchair is a symbol for accessibility gives the same meaning as the image itself. As for my cigarette example, then yes, I think giving a hint as to colour of the symbol is valid, as this symbol is universal (at least in the UK). The red circle itself symbolises something which is not permitted. If you were to explain what a no smoking symbol looked like without saying the circle was red (even if they have no concept of red looks like) would give a lesser clue as to its purpose as providing its colour. In fact, just saying a red circle, would probably give the idea of something that is not permitted, even before saying it has a picture of a cigarette in it. Good points David. Thanks, David. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web site images question
OK everybody. Now back to reality. He is a real world testing scenario: I asked a novice/intermediate(?) Internet user without any known disabilities to test a demo page I have created for that purpose (with graphics rendered as background in CSS), and therefore no alt text attributes available, and her first question was: What do those symbols mean? . And she continued: John, and why when I go over the graphics, those little yellow boxes don't appear? I saw that often on other pages, were they explain what the graphics are about. To this point, I wanted to add here, that not only experienced users are welcome to request any of our services. While to be specific, our tester was a paralegal secretary, and she have requested our services a while ago, for building a web site for the lawyers company she is working with. So I think I cannot consider such employees for example, non-targeted group, or? So, far I still think it would be appropriate to modify the alt attributes as in previous mails suggested, but for a long description (not longdesc though), I am still not sure about that. What do you think now? Thanks again for your kind feedbacks. Best, John David Dixon wrote: It would be true if this was a page explaining symbols. As it stands, though, the purpose of those images is purely an aesthetic enhancement to accompany the text. They serve no purpose. But whatever. It's obvious that until you ascribe meaning to those images, we won't agree on this. You're probably right, unless we agree as the purpose of the image (aesthetic or symbolic) then we'll probably just end up arguing our cases to verbatim. It would be useful to get a few more opinions on what others believe the purpose is, although in the end, I think John, its down to you to decide which camp these images sit in. Not an easy decision based on the too and fro that been going on here though :) Cheers, David. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Web site images question
Hello everybody. I have a question: When an image is presented with one or more paragraphs of text, if the image is relevant to the text in a symbolic way, but does not technically add to the content, should it be displayed as an image within the content, or should it be rendered with CSS? For example see the images wheelchair, magnifier, human head and certificate on our web site: http://www.webnauts.net If they must be rendered with CSS, would it be semantically correct when I add in the content e.g. span class=wheelchairnbsp;/span? Thank you in advance for your kind support. Best wishes and regards, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web site images question
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: David Dixon wrote: I would probably revise the img tag itself to read something like: img src=/images/accessibility.jpg width=100 height=89 alt=The imagery of a person on a wheelchair is generally considered a symbol for accessibility title=An image of a wheelchair: the symbol for accessibility Sorry, but: for heaven's sake. Can you please demonstrate how that is *useful to any real user* within the context of the page? If this was a page outlining different symbols, fine...but here, it's certainly not needed. My question at this point is, not if they are needed or not, rather would that hurt the usability for users with disabilities? As I said, why stop there? Why not explain as well what colours were used to represent this symbol, etc? While I sure do not want to implement the longdesc for the reasons we all might know here, would it be a semantically correct and a usable option to link the images to an extra page, adding in the link a title explaining the page destination, and there providing the details as I would have edited in a longdesc? P Sidenote: I am concerned about the possibility of using alt tag attributes and other techniques as I mentioned above for SEO purposes, but in any case SEO would make sence to us, if it could hurt in any way the accessibility and usability of our site. John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Outline issue (headings)
Testing our site http://www.webnauts.net with the W3C validator here http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webnauts.net%2Fcharset=%28detect+automatically%29doctype=Inlineoutline=1 I got the message: Outline Below is an outline for this document, automatically generated from the heading tags (|h1| through |h6|.) * Web Site Accessibility, SEO, Usability Testing Consulting o Accessibility Testing Consulting o SEO (Search Engine Optimization) o Usability Testing Consulting o Training Web Accessibility, SEO Usability * Sub Navigation o Training Academy o Resources o Newsletter o Memberships o Footer If this does not look like a real outline, it is likely that the heading tags are not being used properly. (Headings should reflect the logical structure of the document; they should not be used simply to add emphasis, or to change the font size.) --- Can someone tell me if we really did something wrong? Thanks, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Alerting users upon page reloading
Hello everybody, I have a question: It is obvious that if users enter invalid data in forms, eg. user name and/or password, or email address, we should not automatically change or refresh the browser window without first alerting him/her that a change will occur and giving him/her the ability to disable or postpone the change. We added a title attribute to the submit button: Page will reload!, and when the page reloading, the user with be directed to that page part, before the label tag, and will get a error message too. For example, try to subscribe our newsletter with an invalid email address to see what I mean here: http://www.webnauts.net Does this solve the accessibility problem? Thanks in advance for your kind comments, or for your alternative solutions. Best, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] CSS problem
I do not know what am I doing wrong, but the input boxes in the fieldsets on our page Training Academy and Newsletter in a certain screen size break out. Can someone give me a hand? Thanks in advance, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Australian Govt guidelines
James Ellis wrote: Hi I'm looking for some australian govt accessibility guidelines - both disability wise and other cases like content management for dial up connection speed etc. If anyone has any links pls reply Cheers James ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Hi James, you might would like to have a look here: http://www.w3.org/WAI/Policy/#Australia Best, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net (Main Office) Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Webnauts Net (U.S. Office) 5 Ivanhoe Drive Urbana IL 61802 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] convert to XHTML
Stuart Sherwood wrote: Hi Everyone, I'm wondering what is the best way to convert a large text file to XHTML? Preferably, I'd like the conversion to be performed to ignore styles, so the output is clean, semantic markup. I'd rather add my own stlying later. Anyone have experience with HTML Transit? Cheers, Stuart You can export the file with Open Office in HTML and then you can convert it in XHTML with the HTML editor HTML Kit http://www.chami.com Best, John http://www.webnauts.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Contrast issue
For our site's main navigation we have white text over a graphic with a gradient from darker to lighter orange. The contrast here is not very great. See here: http://www.webnauts.net However, if the graphics are turned off in the browser, or the style sheet is turned off, the contrast is 100% efficient. Is this an accessibility violation? Thanks, John -- John S. Britsios Web Architect Marketing Consultant Webnauts Net Koblenzer Str. 37A D-33613 Bielefeld Telephone: (+49) 0521 - 325 99 97 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web address: http://www.webnauts.net - Fight back spam! Download the Blue Frog. It's FREE! http://www.bluesecurity.com/register/im?user=Webnauts ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
