Re: Perl Books
* Benjamin Holzman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: True, but there aren't many people who will assume that they can perform brain surgery just because they successfully applied a band-aid to a paper cut the week before. www.trepanation.com ;-) [1] Greg [1] i haven't checked the URL so dont blame me if it turns out to be kittie [;-)] porn -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Perl Books
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:21:57AM -0600, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: :) I think you are missing my point here. The plumber who is skilled in a trade probably thinks you are an idiot when you manage to mangle your own pipes and have to call him to fix it for you. Yeah... I always forget to flush when forking, and I've done some horrible things with IPC::Open3 before... Alex -- "I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you can have everything that you want." - Jareth, Labyrinth
Re: Perl Books
Alex Page writes: Yeah... I always forget to flush when forking, and I've done some horrible things with IPC::Open3 before... I'm shuddering at the thought of the human equivalent of atomic writes. "The largest nugget that will pass through a pipe intact ..." Nat
Re: Perl Books
Aaron Trevena wrote: On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: No, there wasn't even something I could buy for it sadly. It's a simple CGI, I would have paid $15 for a quickie 'here's your simple cgi just plug in your variables here' code. Been there - more often than not, the cookbook fills any holes. I had a particular problem with web forums - slashcode being a bit OTT and wwwthreads cotsing money and then hundreds of PHP and java and asp forums, then I found mwforum and now I am rewriting it big time to get back into coding after sitting on my arse for weeks waiting for work or chasing people up or editing html. If anybody is interested I hope to have a TT'd version of mwforum on the web some time next week. After that I will totally hack it apart and rework it to fit my own twisted needs. Are you going to send the patches back to the authors ? Greg snippage A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Mailing List Stuff
I came to my attention last night that there is still a small amount of confusion over the multiple mailing lists. Here is an attempt to clarify... The list on hfb.pm.org is now supposed to be defunct. If you are only subscribed to that, then you should resubscribe to the dircon list by sending an email containing the line 'subscribe london-pm' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Since October of last year, the dircon list has been the list that you should be posting to. Please ensure that any address book entries you have for london.pm refer to [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the next week or so, we will migrate the list (again!) to our new server. At that point, we'll auto-subscribe everyone from both of the existing lists to the new list and close down both old lists. Any questions? Dave...
Re: Perl Books
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:21:57AM -0600, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: :) I think you are missing my point here. The plumber who is skilled in a trade probably thinks you are an idiot when you manage to mangle your own pipes and have to call him to fix it for you. However, I don't question the plumber's competence, or indeed pretend to anyone including myself that I can do a good job of it. The same should apply to programming. If I were to try my hand at re-plumbing my kitchen, I know I'd make a god-awful mess, and I am intelligent enough to not attempt it. The great unwashed should approach programming the same way. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important ** PGP signature
Re: Last Night
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 05:43:27AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: I hope that everyone who turned up last night had a good time - I certainly did (that may, of course, have something to do with the fact that I was drinking for the first time for a month). I'd be interested in any opinions that people had about the venue as I'm still looking for a new home for our social meetings. I wasn't impressed. It suffered from all the same problems as PO, but was even noisier. I'm going to find out if we can have the upstairs bar of the Albemarle on Dover St. It's sufficiently small that we should be able to have it to ourselves, but sufficiently large that we won't be crowded. They do good beer and I'm fairly certain they do food in the evenings. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important ** PGP signature
Dimsum today!
For all those recovering from the TVRs last night, Piers and I are going for dimsum at the New World (Gerrard Place, iirc) at 12.30. You are all invited, but only if you speak softly and don't shine bright lights... Leon -- Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/ yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/ ... S met ing's hap ening t my k ybo rd . .
Re: Last Night
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 11:27:17AM +, David Cantrell wrote: On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 05:43:27AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: I hope that everyone who turned up last night had a good time - I certainly did (that may, of course, have something to do with the fact that I was drinking for the first time for a month). I'd be interested in any opinions that people had about the venue as I'm still looking for a new home for our social meetings. I wasn't impressed. It suffered from all the same problems as PO, but was even noisier. I'm going to find out if we can have the upstairs bar of the Albemarle on Dover St. It's sufficiently small that we should be able to have it to ourselves, but sufficiently large that we won't be crowded. They do good beer and I'm fairly certain they do food in the evenings. And the TVRs weren't cheap. Somewhere with decently priced food would be good. Michael
Re: Last Night
At 11:57 02/02/2001 +, Greg wrote: so all we need is a private room in a pub in central london that does food Does EC2 count as central London ? The White Hart in Clifton Street (near Liverpool Street station) has a private room that would be big enough. They do food and as a plus point, it has it's own bar ! I'll check out costs etc if people are interested. Simon. -- Simon Wilcox | [EMAIL PROTECTED] "The avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote." Kosh
Re: Perl Books
However, I don't question the plumber's competence, or indeed pretend to anyone including myself that I can do a good job of it. The same should apply to programming. If I were to try my hand at re-plumbing my kitchen, know I'd make a god-awful mess, and I am intelligent enough to not attempt it. The great unwashed should approach programming the same way. When everyone has permanent net connections, and their network is open to the world, and they do a bit of configuration/programming that opens up their system to crackers who have a bit of a play turning off their alarm system and opening the electronic garage door etc then will they call in a real professional to fix it. This is analogous to me drilling several holes in my wall to try and put up a curtain rail, making a complete mess of it, and calling in someone from the yellow pages who did it in 10 minutes and charged me 30, which is what I should have done in the first place. or will they just install Microsoft SafeHouse(TM) which will do it all for them There is definitely money to be made in this area by someone! /Robert
Re: Last Night
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 05:43:27AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: I hope that everyone who turned up last night had a good time Certainly did. Sorry I didn't get to meet many people or stay very long, but Thursday nights are notoriously busy for me. I'd be interested in any opinions that people had about the venue as I'm still looking for a new home for our social meetings. It didn't seem too bad - my pints were 2.50 each, which for central London isn't bad. There were certainly space issues, however. I quite fancy the idea of going to different pubs, rather than sticking to a "home", but I'm like that so feel free to ignore me :-) Alex -- "I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you can have everything that you want." - Jareth, Labyrinth
Re: Last Night
Alex Page wrote: It didn't seem too bad - my pints were 2.50 each, which for central London isn't bad. There were certainly space issues, however. Hmm. yeah. There was a bit of a mix up - I booked in advance and asked for seating for 30 people but when I arrived they'd done standing space for 30 instead. Which was a bit of an arse. See the points people have with noise and smoke though. The TVRs were 34 quid each but had about 8 shots of vodka and 8 shots of tequila in and 6 cans of redbull. Which is quite expensive but not *that* bad. I liked it because it only took 20 mins to get home :)
Re: Mailing List Stuff
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Dave Cross wrote: Any questions? Yeah, can I have a pony ? /J\ -- Jonathan Stowe | http://www.gellyfish.com | I'm with Grep on this one http://www.tackleway.co.uk |
Bad programming considered harmless
However, I don't question the plumber's competence, or indeed pretend to anyone including myself that I can do a good job of it. The same should apply to programming. If I were to try my hand at re-plumbing my kitchen, I know I'd make a god-awful mess, and I am intelligent enough to not attempt it. The great unwashed should approach programming the same way. No, I disagree. This is like a mechanic saying "You really oughtn't to change your own oil, oil is very important, if you get it wrong you could really damage your engine, that sort of thing should be left to a qualified mechanic". It's complete crap. Changing the oil in car is not that hard. Until recently, most car owners would expect to do it themselves, along with changing spark plugs and various other tasks. Now, car makers are falling over themselves to make it harder and harder for these dangerous amateurs to fiddle with the engine. The introduction of specialised components (such as bolts that require wrench sockets only available to authorised repair shops), and the removal of the necessary documentation from the general public, and various warranty clauses in insurance and guarantee documentation all contribute to this. Sound familiar? Programming should be made accessible to the general public and the amateur. The various "Programming Perl for Dummies" books are ultimately a GOOD THING, because for every crap free perl script on the web there is a good script that would never have been written if its author had not found it possible to get into programming. There is nothing wrong with bad programming. Sure, don't pay for it, sure don't use it for anything important or anything that will affect other people's lives. But lots of people get satisfaction and reward from making bad programs, just like they get satisfaction from singing badly in the shower, doing some bad gardening on a Sunday, and putting up a set of wonky shelves. Let's have more people programming badly! Expertism is a dangerous trend. A little knowledge is _not_ a dangerous thing. The only dangerous thing is not knowing the _extent_ of your (little) knowledge. Here endeth the rant.
Re: Mailing List Stuff
* at 02/02 12:29 + Jonathan Stowe said: On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Dave Cross wrote: Any questions? Yeah, can I have a pony ? what is it with ponys? struan
Re: Mailing List Stuff
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 12:27:16PM +, Struan Donald wrote: * at 02/02 12:29 + Jonathan Stowe said: On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Dave Cross wrote: Any questions? Yeah, can I have a pony ? what is it with ponys? I've wondered that too. Seems to be a #perl obsession... .robin. -- Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas!
Re: Mailing List Stuff
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 12:34:15PM +, Robin Houston wrote: what is it with ponys? I've wondered that too. Seems to be a #perl obsession... purl pony [12:39] [purl] pony is replyGimme a Pony! Pony! Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Michael
Re: Mailing List Stuff
Robin Houston wrote: I've wondered that too. Seems to be a #perl obsession... As in "stroke the pony"?
Re: Bad programming considered harmless
Jonathan Peterson wrote: There is nothing wrong with bad programming. There is however lots of thinsg wrong with teaching bad pregramming. Whilst I agree with you to a certain extent about cars a less sinister explanation is that cars *ARE* getting hideously compilcated with variable valve timings and ECU chips. Whilst chaning your oil is not hard or even changing the spark plugs there is a lot of potential to go wrong. You could argue that irregular shaped bolts is an effort to save people from themselves.
Re: Bad programming considered harmless
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 12:25:09PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote: No, I disagree. This is like a mechanic saying "You really oughtn't to change your own oili ... If the user doesn't know how to check their oil levels, what grade of oil is needed and so on, then yes, they shouldn't be doing it themselves. Any good mechanic probably would tell people not to do it themselves if the user lacked that basic knowledge, cos they could really screw up their car. People who lack basic programming knowledge should be told not to do anything dangerous either. Programming should be made accessible to the general public and the amateur. Agreed. And it is. The various "Programming Perl for Dummies" books are ultimately a GOOD THING, because for every crap free perl script on the web there is a good script that would never have been written if its author had not found it possible to get into programming. Agreed. However, if "Programming Perl for Dummies" tells you things that are Just Plain Wrong - like there's no need for strict, -w or -T - then the book does more harm than good. There is nothing wrong with bad programming. Sure, don't pay for it, sure don't use it for anything important or anything that will affect other people's lives. If they keep their bad programming to their own boxes, and their bad programming doesn't open their boxes up for script kiddies to mount DDoS attacks on me, then I don't have a problem with it. Oh, and if they don't come whining and expecting me to fix their fuckups. But lots of people get satisfaction and reward from making bad programs, just like they get satisfaction from singing badly in the shower, doing some bad gardening on a Sunday, and putting up a set of wonky shelves. Let's have more people programming badly! Expertism is a dangerous trend. A little knowledge is _not_ a dangerous thing. The only dangerous thing is not knowing the _extent_ of your (little) knowledge. And there lies the problem. Why do people who know enough to change their oil still consult an expert for anything serious, whereas all it takes is reading "Teach Yourself Programming In 10 Days" to make someone think they know enough to go doing stuff they *really* shouldn't? Programming is not easy. Authors who make people think it is easy should be hurt. A lot. Because the ignoramus pseudo-programmers for which they are responsible cause me a lot of trouble. -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important ** PGP signature
Re: Bad programming considered harmless
* at 02/02 12:25 - Jonathan Peterson said: However, I don't question the plumber's competence, or indeed pretend to anyone including myself that I can do a good job of it. The same should apply to programming. If I were to try my hand at re-plumbing my kitchen, I know I'd make a god-awful mess, and I am intelligent enough to not attempt it. The great unwashed should approach programming the same way. snip type="good points" / Expertism is a dangerous trend. A little knowledge is _not_ a dangerous thing. The only dangerous thing is not knowing the _extent_ of your (little) knowledge. and here is the flaw. it's teh knowing the extent of your knowledge that's the hard part and the bit that the learn perl while you wait for the kettle to boil type books don't seem (IMO) very good at instilling. I'm all for trying to get more people to program perl or any other language but at the same time i'd like it to be done in a sensible way. not only as having bad perl floating about there isn't a good thing, also 'cause if you teach someone bad habits then if they continue they are going to have to unlearn them all, or things will be harder than they should be and they're more likely to get disgruntled. we have enough problems with people looking at perl and thinking "mmm, that looks hard, i'll learn python" without having them 'learn' perl then discover half of what they learnt is bad perl. you have to teach them some theory of good programming, as at the end of the day it _will_ make their lives easier. struan
Re: Bad programming considered harmless
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 12:47:39PM +, Struan Donald wrote: you have to teach them some theory of good programming, as at the end of the day it _will_ make their lives easier. More importantly, it'll make *our* lives easier :-) -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important ** PGP signature
Re: Mailing List Stuff
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 12:40:18PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: purl pony [purl] pony is replyGimme a Pony! Pony! Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Pony Pony Pony! Pony Pony Pony! robin literal pony pony pony purl robin: pony pony pony =is= replyGLUE GLUE GLUE| replyRHAPSODY in Glue! robin glue glue glue? purl glue glue glue is replyPONY PONY PONY hmm It must be a US cultural reference of some sort... .robin.
Re: Mailing List Stuff
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Robin Houston wrote: On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 12:27:16PM +, Struan Donald wrote: * at 02/02 12:29 + Jonathan Stowe said: On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Dave Cross wrote: Any questions? Yeah, can I have a pony ? what is it with ponys? I've wondered that too. Seems to be a #perl obsession... Older than that : http://www.fly.net/~shiva/complain.txt /J\ -- Jonathan Stowe | http://www.gellyfish.com | I'm with Grep on this one http://www.tackleway.co.uk |
Re: Bad programming considered harmless
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 12:25:09PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote: No, I disagree. This is like a mechanic saying "You really oughtn't to change your own oil, oil is very important, if you get it wrong you could really damage your engine, that sort of thing should be left to a qualified mechanic". It's complete crap. Changing the oil in car is not that hard. Until recently, most car owners would expect to do it themselves, along with changing spark plugs and various other tasks. My problem with some of the CGI stuff is that it sounds like the equivalent of a mechanic saying "well, when changing oil, it's not that important what you put in - any oily liquid will work"[1]. You might happen to end up with a car that runs, but it's still not the advice people should be giving out... Michael [1] I Am Not A Mechanic. if this is not actually a silly idea, imagine I suggested something else that is.
RE: Bad programming considered harmless
You could argue that irregular shaped bolts is an effort to save people from themselves. Yah. Like Java saves you from procedural programming :-)
RE: Bad programming considered harmless
Agreed. However, if "Programming Perl for Dummies" tells you things that are Just Plain Wrong - like there's no need for strict, -w or -T - then the book does more harm than good. Agreed. Bad teaching is inexcusable and leads only to harm. If they keep their bad programming to their own boxes, and their bad programming doesn't open their boxes up for script kiddies to mount DDoS attacks on me, then I don't have a problem with it. Oh, and if they don't come whining and expecting me to fix their fuckups. Yes and no. Personally, I get annoyed as the next person by having to fix stupid mistakes. But, there is a general BOFH-like holier than thou attitude that pervades the computer industry, which classifies lusers as dangerous fools until they prove themselves worthy. This is a bad thing. Fools do not need to be suffered gladly, but they need to be educated not beaten. See also the mess that was (is?) p5p. Many people in our business justify elitism by calling it meritocracy.
Re: Mailing List Stuff
Jonathan Stowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.fly.net/~shiva/complain.txt Spamford Wallace. Those were the days. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: Last Night
I'm going to find out if we can have the upstairs bar of the Albemarle on Dover St. It's sufficiently small that we should be able to have it to ourselves, but sufficiently large that we won't be crowded. They do good beer and I'm fairly certain they do food in the evenings. I'm biased - that chops 20 mins off the journey time for me for parking.
Re: Mailing List Stuff
On 2 Feb 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Jonathan Stowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.fly.net/~shiva/complain.txt Spamford Wallace. Those were the days. On the subject of Ponies - check out this aw350m3 site - http://members.tripod.com/~ponyland/ /J\ -- Jonathan Stowe | http://www.gellyfish.com | I'm with Grep on this one http://www.tackleway.co.uk |
Re: Last Night
The TVRs were 34 quid each but had about 8 shots of vodka and 8 shots of tequila in and 6 cans of redbull. Ok, I've heard of TVR's but yet to see one. Would someone like to give me an idea as to how many of these things are meant to be consumed by how many people. How is it presented? The impression I get from above is thas it is 1 TVR per person, in a 4 pint pitcher to last all night.
Re: Perl Books
Benjamin Holzman [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: *On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:57:20AM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote: * Meaning, nobody's really a complete idiot and we'd seem just as dumb * if we called brain surgery tech support, new mother tech support, or * even gardening tech support. * *True, but there aren't many people who will assume that they can perform *brain surgery just because they successfully applied a band-aid to a paper *cut the week before. True, but I don't think anyone is going to die from writing crappy CGIs v. hacking at someones grey cells with a scalpel. e.
Re: Last Night
It took me 3 hours to get home :-( It took me 2 hours (via Wong Kei, BBQ pork noodle soup, Hot Duck with plum sause).
Re: Last Night
plum sause). s/ause/auce/ to work even, not home so its not the same so pretend I didn't write this.
Re: Perl Books
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 11:16:06AM -0600, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: Benjamin Holzman [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: *On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:57:20AM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote: * Meaning, nobody's really a complete idiot and we'd seem just as dumb * if we called brain surgery tech support, new mother tech support, or * even gardening tech support. *True, but there aren't many people who will assume that they can perform *brain surgery just because they successfully applied a band-aid to a paper *cut the week before. True, but I don't think anyone is going to die from writing crappy CGIs v. hacking at someones grey cells with a scalpel. Gardening tech support is perhaps a better example. Not sure. I've managed to keep pot plants alive but I don't go round thinking I'm a gardener. Michael
Re: Bad programming considered harmless
Michael Stevens wrote: (pedantry: There *are* applications where bad programming could kill. I don't think any of us work in them, but I'm pretty sure they exist.) Look at what Sun says Java is not suitable for to get a short list. IIRC they included stuff such as life support machinery in hospitals, air traffic control, and nuclear reactors. Space Shuttle or manned-space-flight rocket control logic probably should also be bug free. Cheers, Philip
Re: Bad programming considered harmless
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 06:56:02PM +0100, Philip Newton wrote: Michael Stevens wrote: (pedantry: There *are* applications where bad programming could kill. I don't think any of us work in them, but I'm pretty sure they exist.) Look at what Sun says Java is not suitable for to get a short list. IIRC they included stuff such as life support machinery in hospitals, air traffic control, and nuclear reactors. Space Shuttle or manned-space-flight rocket control logic probably should also be bug free. Perhaps this is why there isn't "Nuclear Reactor Control: Visual Quickstart Guide". A gap in the market? jp
Re: Perl Books
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Greg Cope wrote: Aaron Trevena wrote: On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: No, there wasn't even something I could buy for it sadly. It's a simple CGI, I would have paid $15 for a quickie 'here's your simple cgi just plug in your variables here' code. Been there - more often than not, the cookbook fills any holes. I had a particular problem with web forums - slashcode being a bit OTT and wwwthreads cotsing money and then hundreds of PHP and java and asp forums, then I found mwforum and now I am rewriting it big time to get back into coding after sitting on my arse for weeks waiting for work or chasing people up or editing html. If anybody is interested I hope to have a TT'd version of mwforum on the web some time next week. After that I will totally hack it apart and rework it to fit my own twisted needs. Are you going to send the patches back to the authors ? Patches? they are big - essentially you replace most of most of the files - not really worth patching. However yes it will be released and all orginal copyright notices are left intact and whenever I think appropriate I point out that it is derived from mwforum. and that all mwforum bits are copyright mw although to be honest I don't think a single line of the original will remain. I plan to 'do the right thing' and email mw before I post it anywhere so that I'm not stepping on his toes - I point out in the documenentaion how much I learnt from his work and stuff and that it works very well for what he designed it to do. Hopefully he will like it, that would make me very happy. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Perl Books
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, David Cantrell wrote: On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 11:21:57AM -0600, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: :) I think you are missing my point here. The plumber who is skilled in a trade probably thinks you are an idiot when you manage to mangle your own pipes and have to call him to fix it for you. However, I don't question the plumber's competence, or indeed pretend to anyone including myself that I can do a good job of it. The same should apply to programming. If I were to try my hand at re-plumbing my kitchen, I know I'd make a god-awful mess, and I am intelligent enough to not attempt it. The great unwashed should approach programming the same way. My old mans a catering lecture and pub landlord but just did all teh electrics and plumbing in the gutted cottage he bought in redruth in conrwall. He did so well that the gasman was surprised with the negligable drop in pressure when he tested. Now he is going to learn dreamweaver and I talked him into learning perl instead of java - because it would suit what he wants to do (mostly matts script kind of stuff) and pointed him at ora. I wish more people are like that, rather than people who believe that because they can write a word macro they are a programmer. I have been training at kung fu for 6 months and I still am not ready to take the first grading, I know I'm not good at it yet but I also know that I have a good instructor and that I can and will be good at it and I'll get it right, not just learn a couple of 10 minute self defense class rubbish. bah! This is more (void) than (void) A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
Re: Bad programming considered harmless
There is nothing wrong with bad programming. Sure, don't pay for it, sure don't use it for anything important or anything that will affect other people's lives. But lots of people get satisfaction and reward from making bad programs, just like they get satisfaction from singing badly in the shower, doing some bad gardening on a Sunday, and putting up a set of wonky shelves. Let's have more people programming badly! That is beautiful. I may have to put it somewhere on a page and let the meme spread freely.. Expertism is a dangerous trend. A little knowledge is _not_ a dangerous thing. The only dangerous thing is not knowing the _extent_ of your (little) knowledge. Definately. A. -- A HREF = "http://termisoc.org/~betty" Betty @ termisoc.org /A "As a youngster Fred fought sea battles on the village pond using a complex system of signals he devised that was later adopted by the Royal Navy. " (this email has nothing to do with any organisation except me)
