[BAROQUE-LUTE] [Re: Charles Mouton and Robert Johnson]
Baroque lutenists, I forward my baroque mail, which I sent to the Lute-list, also here, because I suppose here are members, who do not get the normal list. Delete if you already got this! [Wayne, if you happen to read this: How does it work, if I put both lists to the address fields? Does your system take care that everyone gets only one message? Often the messages belong to two or more Lists...] Best, Arto Original Message Subject: [LUTE] Charles Mouton and Robert Johnson Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:35:38 +0200 From: Arto Wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Hi Lutenists, Dan W. pointed me a couple of interesting pictures of players: Charles Mouton in http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/history3.htm and Robert Johnson in http://copiah.msgenweb.org/Resources/Reference/Profiles/Johnson__Robert/robert_johnson1.gif [Both are btw also my musician/composer heroes!] There are striking similiarities between these two pictures: * The right hand position. * The left hand position. * The right arm position. * The left arm position. * The legs are crossed in the same way. * The instrument is placed same way on the right leg. * Both pose for their official court portraits, wearing their best. * The body language generally is the same. * ... And btw, I see also some other similiarities between barock and blues: * Text is important and often rules the music. * Inegal is the secret of swing in both genres, etc. And there many _different_ inegals in both styles, too! All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Louisiana and the Sun King, Louis XIV
Dear lutenists, activated by the huge interest of my Mouton-Johnson comparison, it just came to my mind that the relation between American blues and French baroque perhaps is not at all a coincidence. Perhaps the real swing in the form of inegalite, un-equalness of notes, of performing music, really came from the French baroque music to the new world? As perhaps many know, France happened to have certain influence there in the eastern Norh America in the baroque times: see Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Louisiana#French_exploration_and_colonization_.281528.E2.80.931756.29 And for ex. the name Louisina was given to an area of land by the French explorer Robert Cavelier de La Salle, who named a region Louisiana to honor France's King Louis XIV in 1682. And that king happened to be be also the king of those musicians who were on the top of inegalitee... ;-) And remember what New Orleans is (was?) to the blues and jazz. And it is (was?) an Orleans, anyhow. Best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Charles Mouton and Robert Johnson
Hi Lutenists, Dan W. pointed me a couple of interesting pictures of players: Charles Mouton in http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/history3.htm and Robert Johnson in http://copiah.msgenweb.org/Resources/Reference/Profiles/Johnson__Robert/robert_johnson1.gif [Both are btw also my musician/composer heroes!] There are striking similiarities between these two pictures: * The right hand position. * The left hand position. * The right arm position. * The left arm position. * The legs are crossed in the same way. * The instrument is placed same way on the right leg. * Both pose for their official court portraits, wearing their best. * The body language generally is the same. * ... And btw, I see also some other similiarities between barock and blues: * Text is important and often rules the music. * Inegal is the secret of swing in both genres, etc. And there many _different_ inegals in both styles, too! All the best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New frets
You can also tighten loose frets by doing a similar thing: pull the fret toward the nut, then loosen the knot and burn it down a few millimeters. Then put the fret back in place and it will be tighter. -Sterling Subject: [LUTE] Re: New frets Something you can do to improve worn frets if you're short on time: loosen the fret a little by sliding it toward the nut, then turn it slightly on the neck so the worn parts are between courses. Slide it back to pitch. Leonard Williams On 2/14/10 6:22 PM, nedma...@aol.com nedma...@aol.com wrote: Having just replaced all the frets on an instrument for the first time (buzzing problems) I was pleasantly surprised at the difference in the clarity of the sound of the instrument. A significant increase, unless my ears are mistaken. (Since I bought the instrument used, I don't know how long the old frets had been on). Thinking about it, this does make sense, the new frets being harder than the old worn frets. I'm wondering if performing players find it beneficial to change their frets often. . . Ned -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Strange lute in French painting
One detail that jumps out at me is the fruit bowl. It's a Chinese bowl, with calligraphy on the side. Of course, Chinoiserie was in fashion, and much faux-Chinese porcelain was produced in Europe, but I don't think much (if any) was produced with calligraphy on them. That would have been one very costly fruit bowl. Can anyone figure out what is in that thin flat wood box below the pipes/sausage-stuffer? With the cover open and the paper liner, I'm tempted to guess some sort of cheese, but the contents look a bit.. bubbly. Edward C. Yong ky...@pacific.net.sg To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] L. Brown student lute
I'm about to put a lute on the LSA 'sale' site. If anyone - in the continental US - is interested in a Larry Brown 8 course student lute with plywood case, contact me off list. A fine playing and sounding instrument. Ned -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New frets
I'm also going to buy new frets, but i still don't know which diameter to take now i use 0.95-85-75-65 on my 10c and 85-75-65-55 on my 7c. But i think they are not too thick for my taste. So in fact I have two questions about it (think I already asked, but I can't remember my own name today :-P ) 1. Moving to thicker frets need any special preparation? I think I will go for 110,100,95,80 for 10c and 100, 90, 80, 70 for 7c. 2. well...after remembering it, i don't have second question... On Feb 17, 2010, at 11:13 AM, sterling price wrote: You can also tighten loose frets by doing a similar thing: pull the fret toward the nut, then loosen the knot and burn it down a few millimeters. Then put the fret back in place and it will be tighter. -Sterling Subject: [LUTE] Re: New frets Something you can do to improve worn frets if you're short on time: loosen the fret a little by sliding it toward the nut, then turn it slightly on the neck so the worn parts are between courses. Slide it back to pitch. Leonard Williams On 2/14/10 6:22 PM, nedma...@aol.com nedma...@aol.com wrote: Having just replaced all the frets on an instrument for the first time (buzzing problems) I was pleasantly surprised at the difference in the clarity of the sound of the instrument. A significant increase, unless my ears are mistaken. (Since I bought the instrument used, I don't know how long the old frets had been on).Thinking about it, this does make sense, the new frets being harder than the old worn frets. I'm wondering if performing players find it beneficial to change their frets often. . . Ned -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [Re: Charles Mouton and Robert Johnson]
Hi Arto - If the message is addressed to more than one list, the robot chooses to send it only to the first match, in this order.. baroque-lute, medieval-lute, nsp, posner-lute, lute-builder, feuillet, vihuela, cittern, early-guitar, lute this is because many people are on more than one list and the robot does not want to send them multiple copies. I tried a quick and dirty check to see how many baroque lute list members are also on the mail lute list, but gave up because people's information on the two lists often varies slightly. Wayne [Wayne, if you happen to read this: How does it work, if I put both lists to the address fields? Does your system take care that everyone gets only one message? Often the messages belong to two or more Lists...] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New frets
Neat tricks, Sterling and Leonard! They've allowed me to yet again put off refretting. While we're here, does any have any tricks for getting and/or keeping the 1st fret really tight? Best to all, Chris. sterling price spiffys84...@yahoo.com 2/17/2010 4:13 AM You can also tighten loose frets by doing a similar thing: pull the fret toward the nut, then loosen the knot and burn it down a few millimeters. Then put the fret back in place and it will be tighter. -Sterling Subject: [LUTE] Re: New frets Something you can do to improve worn frets if you're short on time: loosen the fret a little by sliding it toward the nut, then turn it slightly on the neck so the worn parts are between courses. Slide it back to pitch. Leonard Williams On 2/14/10 6:22 PM, nedma...@aol.com nedma...@aol.com wrote: Having just replaced all the frets on an instrument for the first time (buzzing problems) I was pleasantly surprised at the difference in the clarity of the sound of the instrument. A significant increase, unless my ears are mistaken. (Since I bought the instrument used, I don't know how long the old frets had been on).Thinking about it, this does make sense, the new frets being harder than the old worn frets. I'm wondering if performing players find it beneficial to change their frets often. . . Ned -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [Re: Charles Mouton and Robert Johnson]
Thanks Wayne: On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:40:12 -0500 (EST), Wayne Cripps w...@cs.dartmouth.edu wrote: If the message is addressed to more than one list, the robot chooses to send it only to the first match, in this order.. baroque-lute, medieval-lute, nsp, posner-lute, lute-builder, feuillet, vihuela, cittern, early-guitar, lute this is because many people are on more than one list and the robot does not want to send them multiple copies. I tried a quick and dirty check to see how many baroque lute list members are also on the mail lute list, but gave up because people's information on the two lists often varies slightly. Wouldn't it be enough just to check that one e-mail address is just once in the list of the recipients? No checks of other information. Just a thought, no critisism. Best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Louisiana and the Sun King, Louis XIV
Hi lute list, just a copy to the lute list too. I just sent it to the baroque lute list, but there might be interested here, too? Just delete in case you read also the baroque list... ;-) Best, Arto Original Message Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Louisiana and the Sun King, Louis XIV Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:23:27 +0200 From: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi To: baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Dear lutenists, activated by the huge interest of my Mouton-Johnson comparison, it just came to my mind that the relation between American blues and French baroque perhaps is not at all a coincidence. Perhaps the real swing in the form of inegalite, un-equalness of notes, of performing music, really came from the French baroque music to the new world? As perhaps many know, France happened to have certain influence there in the eastern Norh America in the baroque times: see Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Louisiana#French_exploration_and_colonization_.281528.E2.80.931756.29 And for ex. the name Louisina was given to an area of land by the French explorer Robert Cavelier de La Salle, who named a region Louisiana to honor France's King Louis XIV in 1682. And that king happened to be be also the king of those musicians who were on the top of inegalitee... ;-) And remember what New Orleans is (was?) to the blues and jazz. And it is (was?) an Orleans, anyhow. Best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Strange lute in French painting
tempted to guess some sort of cheese, but the contents look a bit.. bubbly. I think it must be caramel coated pop-corn, or perhaps Cracker-Jacks. Regards, Leonard Williams On 2/17/10 4:59 AM, Edward C. Yong ky...@pacific.net.sg wrote: One detail that jumps out at me is the fruit bowl. It's a Chinese bowl, with calligraphy on the side. Of course, Chinoiserie was in fashion, and much faux-Chinese porcelain was produced in Europe, but I don't think much (if any) was produced with calligraphy on them. That would have been one very costly fruit bowl. Can anyone figure out what is in that thin flat wood box below the pipes/sausage-stuffer? With the cover open and the paper liner, I'm tempted to guess some sort of cheese, but the contents look a bit.. bubbly. Edward C. Yong ky...@pacific.net.sg To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New frets
A good needle-nose pliers, or locking surgical forceps (hemostat), to roll the tightening end on, instead of trying to pull it by fingers. Tremendous force can be applied this way (carefully, hopefully). After tightening squeeze the fret firmly with fingers, to keep it tight, while finishing the knot. Drying the fret material beforehand helps as well (hair drier or such). alexander r. On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:35:05 -0500 Christopher Stetson cstet...@smith.edu wrote: Neat tricks, Sterling and Leonard! They've allowed me to yet again put off refretting. While we're here, does any have any tricks for getting and/or keeping the 1st fret really tight? Best to all, Chris. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New frets
You can also tighten frets after they are in place by slipping some sort of wedge underneath. I make little notched wedges in my shop, but a short section from the end of a round toothpick also works pretty well (although you can stab your self with the sharp end if you aren't careful...). Guy -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of alexander Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 2:32 PM To: Christopher Stetson Cc: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: New frets A good needle-nose pliers, or locking surgical forceps (hemostat), to roll the tightening end on, instead of trying to pull it by fingers. Tremendous force can be applied this way (carefully, hopefully). After tightening squeeze the fret firmly with fingers, to keep it tight, while finishing the knot. Drying the fret material beforehand helps as well (hair drier or such). alexander r. On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:35:05 -0500 Christopher Stetson cstet...@smith.edu wrote: Neat tricks, Sterling and Leonard! They've allowed me to yet again put off refretting. While we're here, does any have any tricks for getting and/or keeping the 1st fret really tight? Best to all, Chris. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Strange lute in French painting
I think it must be caramel coated pop-corn, or perhaps Cracker-Jacks. nope, gotta be crunch n munch One detail that jumps out at me is the fruit bowl. It's a Chinese bowl, with calligraphy on the side. possibly purchased or a gift from traders with the 15c fleet bearing a chinese ambassador to the papal court (see book titled 1421, not necessarily gospel, but provocative); possibly trade good or merely eating utensil from one of the polo voyages. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: New frets
On 2/17/10 5:32 PM, alexander voka...@verizon.net wrote: A good needle-nose pliers, or locking surgical forceps (hemostat), to roll the tightening end on, instead of trying to pull it by fingers. Tremendous force can be applied this way (carefully, hopefully). Enough force, in fact, that I have occasionally left grooves on the neck where the knot of the over-tightened fret dug into the wood when I slid the fret into place! Fortunately, it's on the back side along with the shims for loose frets and dots for f and h; only I will ever know (until now). Leonard After tightening squeeze the fret firmly with fingers, to keep it tight, while finishing the knot. Drying the fret material beforehand helps as well (hair drier or such). alexander r. On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:35:05 -0500 Christopher Stetson cstet...@smith.edu wrote: Neat tricks, Sterling and Leonard! They've allowed me to yet again put off refretting. While we're here, does any have any tricks for getting and/or keeping the 1st fret really tight? Best to all, Chris. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Louisiana and the Sun King, Louis XIV
just came to my mind that the relation between American blues and French baroque perhaps is not at all a coincidence. Perhaps the real swing in the form of inegalite, un-equalness of notes, of performing music, really came from the French baroque music to the new world? A very interesting question. Am I reading you correctly? Are you hypothesizing that the swing of American blues originates in the French inegalité ? I would suspect that it is the other way 'round. I believe the unique 12/8 swing feel of blues most likely comes from African dance rhythms. Their music and dance were the only ways they had of holding on to the culture they lost when they were ripped away from home and brought to North America as slaves. I doubt that many (if any) African slaves heard the music of aristocratic French society - certainly not enough to influence the music of an entire culture passed on via oral tradition. However, I do think it is plausible that French musicians, or dancing masters, or both, could have heard slave music in the Caribbean and incorporated elements into their music or dance upon return to France. African rhythms combined with fiddle tunes from Great Britain became American square dance music. The blues and jazz that grew out of New Orleans was profoundly influenced by immigrants who were former slaves from Haiti and Jamaica, and their descendents. I have attached a PDF article by Michael Ventura which goes into depth on this subject. I think all musicians should learn to dance. It's all about dance rhythms. One can't play a Galliard properly without knowing how to dance one. Bach's suites were all base on dance rhythms. There is great argument about how to interpret these, with one side saying he didn't intend them as dances at all and the other side saying the opposite. For a wonderful treatise on this read Anner Bylsma, Bach the Fencing Master. http://www.bylsmafencing.com/ Thanks, Arto, for a very interesting idea. I'll look forward to thoughts from the rest of the list. Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 As perhaps many know, France happened to have certain influence there in the eastern Norh America in the baroque times: see Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Louisiana#French_exploration_a nd_colonization_.281528.E2.80.931756.29 And for ex. the name Louisina was given to an area of land by the French explorer Robert Cavelier de La Salle, who named a region Louisiana to honor France's King Louis XIV in 1682. And that king happened to be be also the king of those musicians who were on the top of inegalitee... ;-) And remember what New Orleans is (was?) to the blues and jazz. And it is (was?) an Orleans, anyhow. Best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 --
[LUTE] Re: Louisiana and the Sun King, Louis XIV
I heard an interesting radio article some years ago on NPR about early jazz in New Orleans. Apparently, most of the band leaders at the time were German immigrants. Many (most?) of the early jazz musicians learned how to play from German bandmasters, which had a definite influence on the style. Guy -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of t...@heartistrymusic.com Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:32 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; wikla Subject: [LUTE] Re: Louisiana and the Sun King, Louis XIV just came to my mind that the relation between American blues and French baroque perhaps is not at all a coincidence. Perhaps the real swing in the form of inegalite, un-equalness of notes, of performing music, really came from the French baroque music to the new world? A very interesting question. Am I reading you correctly? Are you hypothesizing that the swing of American blues originates in the French inegalité ? I would suspect that it is the other way 'round. I believe the unique 12/8 swing feel of blues most likely comes from African dance rhythms. Their music and dance were the only ways they had of holding on to the culture they lost when they were ripped away from home and brought to North America as slaves. I doubt that many (if any) African slaves heard the music of aristocratic French society - certainly not enough to influence the music of an entire culture passed on via oral tradition. However, I do think it is plausible that French musicians, or dancing masters, or both, could have heard slave music in the Caribbean and incorporated elements into their music or dance upon return to France. African rhythms combined with fiddle tunes from Great Britain became American square dance music. The blues and jazz that grew out of New Orleans was profoundly influenced by immigrants who were former slaves from Haiti and Jamaica, and their descendents. I have attached a PDF article by Michael Ventura which goes into depth on this subject. I think all musicians should learn to dance. It's all about dance rhythms. One can't play a Galliard properly without knowing how to dance one. Bach's suites were all base on dance rhythms. There is great argument about how to interpret these, with one side saying he didn't intend them as dances at all and the other side saying the opposite. For a wonderful treatise on this read Anner Bylsma, Bach the Fencing Master. http://www.bylsmafencing.com/ Thanks, Arto, for a very interesting idea. I'll look forward to thoughts from the rest of the list. Tom Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 As perhaps many know, France happened to have certain influence there in the eastern Norh America in the baroque times: see Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Louisiana#French_exploration_a nd_colonization_.281528.E2.80.931756.29 And for ex. the name Louisina was given to an area of land by the French explorer Robert Cavelier de La Salle, who named a region Louisiana to honor France's King Louis XIV in 1682. And that king happened to be be also the king of those musicians who were on the top of inegalitee... ;-) And remember what New Orleans is (was?) to the blues and jazz. And it is (was?) an Orleans, anyhow. Best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Tom Draughon Heartistry Music http://www.heartistry.com/artists/tom.html 714 9th Avenue West Ashland, WI 54806 715-682-9362 --
[LUTE] Help in reading a French text fragment
Dear Collective Wisdom, this time especially the French section, I would like to find out, what certain 4 lines of French text say. The handwriting is not very clear, not to speak of the meaning... ;-) The text is in ms. Saizenay 279.153, page 3 at the end of Sarabande La Mignone, and here is the link: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/words_of_Mignone.jpg And is it just a poem or the words of some song that perhaps was the model for the piece? Many thanks already in advance! Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Help in reading a French text fragment
The french text is a poem : A que je sens de penchant à me rendre Si mon Berger savait par où me prendre Hélas ! comment pourrais-je me défendre Contre un amant si fidèle et si tendre Google translation give Ah, I feel inclined to surrender If my Shepherd knew where to take me Alas! how could I defend myself Against a lover so true and so tender -Message d'origine- De : lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] De la part de Arto Wikla Envoyé : jeudi 18 février 2010 08:16 À : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Objet : [LUTE] Help in reading a French text fragment Dear Collective Wisdom, this time especially the French section, I would like to find out, what certain 4 lines of French text say. The handwriting is not very clear, not to speak of the meaning... ;-) The text is in ms. Saizenay 279.153, page 3 at the end of Sarabande La Mignone, and here is the link: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/words_of_Mignone.jpg And is it just a poem or the words of some song that perhaps was the model for the piece? Many thanks already in advance! Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Help in reading a French text fragment
Arto Wikla écrit: I would like to find out, what certain 4 lines of French text say. The handwriting is not very clear, not to speak of the meaning... ;-) The text is in ms. Saizenay 279.153, page 3 at the end of Sarabande La Mignone, and here is the link: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/words_of_Mignone.jpg This is what I read: ah! que je sens de penchant à me rendre si mon Berger sçavoit par où me prendre hélas! comment pourrois-je me deffendre contre un amant si fidelle et si tendre. Dennis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
