[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria CITES documentation
On 03/24/2014 11:57 AM, Dmitry Medvedev wrote: Hello, I own a vihuela made by Luciano Faria in 2006. Unfortunately, its back and sides are made from Brazilian Rosewood, and the previous owner had lost the accompanying documentation, and I was not aware of CITES regulations at the time I bought it. Wow. I understand the reason for the regulations, but this is certainly unfortunate. If you believe that the wood was obtained legally, what sort of risk are you exposing yourself to if you never get the CITES certificate but use the lute anyway? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria CITES documentation
Carrying that instrument across international borders that enforce those regulations will be difficult, if not impossible. On Mar 24, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Tobiah wrote: On 03/24/2014 11:57 AM, Dmitry Medvedev wrote: Hello, I own a vihuela made by Luciano Faria in 2006. Unfortunately, its back and sides are made from Brazilian Rosewood, and the previous owner had lost the accompanying documentation, and I was not aware of CITES regulations at the time I bought it. Wow. I understand the reason for the regulations, but this is certainly unfortunate. If you believe that the wood was obtained legally, what sort of risk are you exposing yourself to if you never get the CITES certificate but use the lute anyway? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria CITES documentation
Well, I can use it as much as I like, as long as I don't take it across the border. As far as I understood, CITES is concerned only with international import/export... But, if I decide to travel with it and get... hmmm... caught, the instrument will be confiscated and, likely, destroyed. I have been reading about CITES quite a lot recently, and I must say that I am seriously impressed... The single fact that you have to apply for a Musical Instrument Certificate at the Fish and Wildlife Service is already enough to drive one crazy. On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Tobiah [1]t...@tobiah.org wrote: On 03/24/2014 11:57 AM, Dmitry Medvedev wrote: Hello, I own a vihuela made by Luciano Faria in 2006. Unfortunately, its back and sides are made from Brazilian Rosewood, and the previous owner had lost the accompanying documentation, and I was not aware of CITES regulations at the time I bought it. Wow. I understand the reason for the regulations, but this is certainly unfortunate. If you believe that the wood was obtained legally, what sort of risk are you exposing yourself to if you never get the CITES certificate but use the lute anyway? -- References 1. mailto:t...@tobiah.org To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria CITES documentation
On 03/24/2014 12:29 PM, Dmitry Medvedev wrote: Well, I can use it as much as I like, as long as I don't take it across the border. As far as I understood, CITES is concerned only with international import/export... Interesting. How do they determine that the wood is actually one of the regulated species? Do they have a test, or are there agents that are trained in wood identification? Toby To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria CITES documentation
What a world, where government officials will destroy a musical instrument of beauty and quality sound because they think, somehow, this will stop people from cutting down the same variety of tree in another country... Has anyone noticed how much good the confiscation and heavens-only-knows-what-disposition of undocumented but legal ivory has curtailed the ivory poaching rate? On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Tobiah t...@tobiah.org wrote: On 03/24/2014 12:29 PM, Dmitry Medvedev wrote: Well, I can use it as much as I like, as long as I don't take it across the border. As far as I understood, CITES is concerned only with international import/export... Interesting. How do they determine that the wood is actually one of the regulated species? Do they have a test, or are there agents that are trained in wood identification? Toby To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria CITES documentation
On 24/03/2014 12:40 PM, Tobiah wrote: On 03/24/2014 12:29 PM, Dmitry Medvedev wrote: Well, I can use it as much as I like, as long as I don't take it across the border. As far as I understood, CITES is concerned only with international import/export... Interesting. How do they determine that the wood is actually one of the regulated species? Do they have a test, or are there agents that are trained in wood identification? Toby Guilty until proven innocent. If you can't prove it isn't then it is. Stephen Fryer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria CITES documentation
I think there is an official catalog of CITES species with short descriptions and photos. It is of course basically useless in case of wood, which can be quite diversely colored. It could pass as Indian Rosewood, I suppose, but I really don't want to find out... On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Tobiah [1]t...@tobiah.org wrote: On 03/24/2014 12:29 PM, Dmitry Medvedev wrote: Well, I can use it as much as I like, as long as I don't take it across the border. As far as I understood, CITES is concerned only with international import/export... Interesting. How do they determine that the wood is actually one of the regulated species? Do they have a test, or are there agents that are trained in wood identification? Toby -- References 1. mailto:t...@tobiah.org To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria CITES documentation
Interesting decision tree (if you'll excuse...) So if your lute has no CITES woods in it, and you don't have documentation to that effect, you still lose your instrument? I know that EU has been voracious in preventing non-EU providers from selling organs or organ pipes into EU by outlawing and licensing (at great cost). This might make sense if there were a major organ or organ pipe manufacturing concern in the EU, although to judge from the complaints I've heard, this is not the case. So exactly which EU ministers are so terribly anti-music? On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Stephen Fryer sjfr...@telus.net wrote: On 24/03/2014 12:40 PM, Tobiah wrote: On 03/24/2014 12:29 PM, Dmitry Medvedev wrote: Well, I can use it as much as I like, as long as I don't take it across the border. As far as I understood, CITES is concerned only with international import/export... Interesting. How do they determine that the wood is actually one of the regulated species? Do they have a test, or are there agents that are trained in wood identification? Toby Guilty until proven innocent. If you can't prove it isn't then it is. Stephen Fryer To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria CITES documentation
On 03/24/2014 12:53 PM, William Brohinsky wrote: What a world, where government officials will destroy a musical instrument of beauty and quality sound because they think, somehow, this will stop people from cutting down the same variety of tree in another country... Has anyone noticed how much good the confiscation and heavens-only-knows-what-disposition of undocumented but legal ivory has curtailed the ivory poaching rate? Yeah, although I understand the desire to protect the trees and the elephants etc., these efforts probably have the side effect of making the material more valuable which much tickle the poachers. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria CITES documentation
I didnt know Luciano went out of business. I bought an archlute from him in 2005 and it has been sitting in its case since 2006 because it buzzes. He told me he had a license to export Brazilian rose wood, but I am pretty sure I didnt get any certificate myself. Maybe the customs just kept any documentation. On Mar 25, 2014, at 4:29 AM, Sean Smith lutesm...@mac.com wrote: Carrying that instrument across international borders that enforce those regulations will be difficult, if not impossible. On Mar 24, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Tobiah wrote: On 03/24/2014 11:57 AM, Dmitry Medvedev wrote: Hello, I own a vihuela made by Luciano Faria in 2006. Unfortunately, its back and sides are made from Brazilian Rosewood, and the previous owner had lost the accompanying documentation, and I was not aware of CITES regulations at the time I bought it. Wow. I understand the reason for the regulations, but this is certainly unfortunate. If you believe that the wood was obtained legally, what sort of risk are you exposing yourself to if you never get the CITES certificate but use the lute anyway? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch https://soundcloud.com/ed-durbrow http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ --
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
Hi Steven, I am sorry to hear that you have suffered a similar fate, particularly with two instrument makers!!! Interestingly, after about one day of lutelist discussions about this that I generated, I did finally get an e-mail from Faria, the first one in about twenty-two months (after many tries). He said that he has seven more instruments to build before he gets to my double order, and my order was submitted in January 2007, so if that is true, then this may give you some idea of where you stand with your order in the lineup. Anyway, wherever you are, I am sorry to hear this, and I hope that you will hear from him. John O. Robison -- Forwarded Message From: S W [1]sszun...@yahoo.com Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 00:59:40 -0500 To: Ron Fletcher [2]ron.fletc...@ntlworld.com, [3]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu [4]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria At some point Luciano's reputation needs to be tarnished. I have sent him money and I have not received a lute. Nor have I received a phone call, email, or letter explaining the situation. I have not received a new estimated date of delivery or acknowledgement that he owes me an instrument. I did, at one point, receive an offer to send me another instrument he had built (probably from someone else). He told me he would send details and never did. Interestingly enough (or sad enough) this is the second luthier who has screwed me over. The first was Szymon Gasienica, a Polish luthier who was building me a 6-course lute. He also has my money and I have no instrument. Steven - Original Message From: Ron Fletcher [5]ron.fletc...@ntlworld.com To: [6]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu [7]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 12:16:29 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria The truth that he is long overdue in making instruments and not communicating is not disputed. It is the reason why he does not communicate that could save his reputation. Has his workshop been destroyed in a blaze, earthquake or flood? Is he suffering ill-health (physical/mental), died, hospitalized, or is he in jail? It could be that someone else is accepting his orders whilst he is indisposed, believing that he will fulfill his obligations when he returns to full health, (or liberty). Or, is this someone posing as Luciano Faria (without his knowledge), making easy money? Does any of this make Luciano Faria guilty of fraud? There are probably a dozen other possibilities I haven't yet thought of. But all these speculations need to be investigated properly. That can only be done by meeting him face to face. A telephone conversation does not qualify in this respect. He should be given the chance to be honest with his customers if he realizes he can no longer produce instruments. Only then can the possibility of reimbursement be considered. Best Wishes Ron (UK) -Original Message- From: [8]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[9]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of howard posner Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:34 PM To: [10]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria On Dec 15, 2009, at 1:45 AM, Ron Fletcher wrote: It is better to know the truth than to ruin this man's reputation as a good luthier by speculation and hearsay. The truth, according to several list members who say they have personal knowledge, is that Faria is long overdue in making instruments and is not communicating with customers whose money he has taken. This may destroy his reputation, but is certainly not speculation or hearsay. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- End of Forwarded Message -- References 1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/sszun...@yahoo.com 2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/ron.fletc...@ntlworld.com 3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/ron.fletc...@ntlworld.com 6. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 8. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 9. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 10. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
Well that sounds promising. I think actually completing outstanding orders will go a long way to repairing his reputation and may even drive more business to him if he shows dedication enough to overcome hardship and meet his responsibilities. I sent him my new email but, just in case, he can reach me at stevensebastian at gmail dot com. Looking forward to hearing from Luciano, Steven - Original Message From: Robison, John robi...@arts.usf.edu To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thu, December 17, 2009 6:24:42 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria Hi Steven, I am sorry to hear that you have suffered a similar fate, particularly with two instrument makers!!! Interestingly, after about one day of lutelist discussions about this that I generated, I did finally get an e-mail from Faria, the first one in about twenty-two months (after many tries). He said that he has seven more instruments to build before he gets to my double order, and my order was submitted in January 2007, so if that is true, then this may give you some idea of where you stand with your order in the lineup. Anyway, wherever you are, I am sorry to hear this, and I hope that you will hear from him. John O. Robison -- Forwarded Message From: S W [1]sszun...@yahoo.com Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 00:59:40 -0500 To: Ron Fletcher [2]ron.fletc...@ntlworld.com, [3]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu [4]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria At some point Luciano's reputation needs to be tarnished. I have sent him money and I have not received a lute. Nor have I received a phone call, email, or letter explaining the situation. I have not received a new estimated date of delivery or acknowledgement that he owes me an instrument. I did, at one point, receive an offer to send me another instrument he had built (probably from someone else). He told me he would send details and never did. Interestingly enough (or sad enough) this is the second luthier who has screwed me over. The first was Szymon Gasienica, a Polish luthier who was building me a 6-course lute. He also has my money and I have no instrument. Steven - Original Message From: Ron Fletcher [5]ron.fletc...@ntlworld.com To: [6]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu [7]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 12:16:29 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria The truth that he is long overdue in making instruments and not communicating is not disputed. It is the reason why he does not communicate that could save his reputation. Has his workshop been destroyed in a blaze, earthquake or flood? Is he suffering ill-health (physical/mental), died, hospitalized, or is he in jail? It could be that someone else is accepting his orders whilst he is indisposed, believing that he will fulfill his obligations when he returns to full health, (or liberty). Or, is this someone posing as Luciano Faria (without his knowledge), making easy money? Does any of this make Luciano Faria guilty of fraud? There are probably a dozen other possibilities I haven't yet thought of. But all these speculations need to be investigated properly. That can only be done by meeting him face to face. A telephone conversation does not qualify in this respect. He should be given the chance to be honest with his customers if he realizes he can no longer produce instruments. Only then can the possibility of reimbursement be considered. Best Wishes Ron (UK) -Original Message- From: [8]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[9]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of howard posner Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:34 PM To: [10]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria On Dec 15, 2009, at 1:45 AM, Ron Fletcher wrote: It is better to know the truth than to ruin this man's reputation as a good luthier by speculation and hearsay. The truth, according to several list members who say they have personal knowledge, is that Faria is long overdue in making instruments and is not communicating with customers whose money he has taken. This may destroy his reputation, but is certainly not speculation or hearsay. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- End of Forwarded Message -- References 1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/sszun...@yahoo.com 2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/ron.fletc...@ntlworld.com 3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/ron.fletc...@ntlworld.com 6. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 8. file
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
At some point Luciano's reputation needs to be tarnished. I have sent him money and I have not received a lute. Nor have I received a phone call, email, or letter explaining the situation. I have not received a new estimated date of delivery or acknowledgement that he owes me an instrument. I did, at one point, receive an offer to send me another instrument he had built (probably from someone else). He told me he would send details and never did. Interestingly enough (or sad enough) this is the second luthier who has screwed me over. The first was Szymon Gasienica, a Polish luthier who was building me a 6-course lute. He also has my money and I have no instrument. Steven - Original Message From: Ron Fletcher ron.fletc...@ntlworld.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 12:16:29 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria The truth that he is long overdue in making instruments and not communicating is not disputed. It is the reason why he does not communicate that could save his reputation. Has his workshop been destroyed in a blaze, earthquake or flood? Is he suffering ill-health (physical/mental), died, hospitalized, or is he in jail? It could be that someone else is accepting his orders whilst he is indisposed, believing that he will fulfill his obligations when he returns to full health, (or liberty). Or, is this someone posing as Luciano Faria (without his knowledge), making easy money? Does any of this make Luciano Faria guilty of fraud? There are probably a dozen other possibilities I haven't yet thought of. But all these speculations need to be investigated properly. That can only be done by meeting him face to face. A telephone conversation does not qualify in this respect. He should be given the chance to be honest with his customers if he realizes he can no longer produce instruments. Only then can the possibility of reimbursement be considered. Best Wishes Ron (UK) -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of howard posner Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:34 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria On Dec 15, 2009, at 1:45 AM, Ron Fletcher wrote: It is better to know the truth than to ruin this man's reputation as a good luthier by speculation and hearsay. The truth, according to several list members who say they have personal knowledge, is that Faria is long overdue in making instruments and is not communicating with customers whose money he has taken. This may destroy his reputation, but is certainly not speculation or hearsay. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
Dear LuteList friends, I know that my answer could start an infinite flame, but after reading all these angry messages I feel I'd like to comment. Of course I feel sympathetic with all of you, having lost your money and waiting for an answer whatsoever, but let me point out the following: - there are plenty of lutemakers in the US and in other parts of the world. Lutemakers with a very strong reputation and (often) reasonable waiting lists; - so why you placed an order to a good lutemaker living in a very distant country? I guess mainly because this good lutemaker was cheaper. - Money gain always comes at risk: the higher the gain, the bigger the risk, usually. Everybody can take the consequences of all this. I do not want to suggest anything so tragic, but for what we all know he could be dead, and (as far as I know) there's no internet available THERE. Sorry, but I felt telling you. For the future check that very good lutemaker near you, or one of the many located in Europe and not necessarily disappearing with your deposit(s). Luca To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
I can symathise with those customers on this list who feel let down by Luciano Faria. One can surmise all kinds of reasons for his lack of response. After three years waiting, I would suggest someone make a personal visit to him to get to the truth. I don't recall his address being published, but if anyone on this list, or Lutegroup.ning.com has friends, or relatives living in his locality in Brazil, it should not be too difficult to track him down and find the answer. It is better to know the truth than to ruin this man's reputation as a good luthier by speculation and hearsay. Brazil is the biggest country in South America and, it does have internet in the cities. Publish his address and let's find someone there who speaks Portuguese. They can make the initial enquiries, for any evidence of fraud, before calling for legal enforcement. Best Wishes Ron (UK) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
I understand. Because we ordered instruments in good faith from a supposed reputable builder, it is some how our fault. Thank you for clearing that up. Joseph Mayes __ From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Luca Manassero Sent: Tue 12/15/2009 3:17 AM To: LuteNet list Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria Dear LuteList friends, I know that my answer could start an infinite flame, but after reading all these angry messages I feel I'd like to comment. Of course I feel sympathetic with all of you, having lost your money and waiting for an answer whatsoever, but let me point out the following: - there are plenty of lutemakers in the US and in other parts of the world. Lutemakers with a very strong reputation and (often) reasonable waiting lists; - so why you placed an order to a good lutemaker living in a very distant country? I guess mainly because this good lutemaker was cheaper. - Money gain always comes at risk: the higher the gain, the bigger the risk, usually. Everybody can take the consequences of all this. I do not want to suggest anything so tragic, but for what we all know he could be dead, and (as far as I know) there's no internet available THERE. Sorry, but I felt telling you. For the future check that very good lutemaker near you, or one of the many located in Europe and not necessarily disappearing with your deposit(s). Luca To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
Not at all. Reading all what has been written could help understanding what I am trying to comment. I think you took a risk, motivated by a lower price. A risk is a risk, and sometimes turns the wrong way. OF COURSE, it's not your fault. But sometimes taking a risk shoudl be considered the way it is: a risk (of failure and therefore of loss). Banks know it very well, and still sometimes do not valuate the risks they are taking, and we all know the outcomes. Best regards, Luca Mayes, Joseph on 15-12-2009 13:04 wrote: I understand. Because we ordered instruments in good faith from a supposed reputable builder, it is some how our fault. Thank you for clearing that up. Joseph Mayes *From:* lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Luca Manassero *Sent:* Tue 12/15/2009 3:17 AM *To:* LuteNet list *Subject:* [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria Dear LuteList friends, I know that my answer could start an infinite flame, but after reading all these angry messages I feel I'd like to comment. Of course I feel sympathetic with all of you, having lost your money and waiting for an answer whatsoever, but let me point out the following: - there are plenty of lutemakers in the US and in other parts of the world. Lutemakers with a very strong reputation and (often) reasonable waiting lists; - so why you placed an order to a good lutemaker living in a very distant country? I guess mainly because this good lutemaker was cheaper. - Money gain always comes at risk: the higher the gain, the bigger the risk, usually. Everybody can take the consequences of all this. I do not want to suggest anything so tragic, but for what we all know he could be dead, and (as far as I know) there's no internet available THERE. Sorry, but I felt telling you. For the future check that very good lutemaker near you, or one of the many located in Europe and not necessarily disappearing with your deposit(s). Luca To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
Hi everyone, Thank you so much for all of your helpful messages!!! Of course I knew the risk of ordering instruments from Faria, and I was hesitant about doing it until I found a couple of people in the US who had received instruments from him. I also do not want to ruin the man's reputation, which is why I have waited so long to say anything. I like the idea of trying to find someone near to his vicinity of Brazil and paying him a visit. Anyway, thanks for your input!!! With best wishes, John O. Robison -- Forwarded Message From: Luca Manassero [1]l...@manassero.net Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 07:36:43 -0500 To: LuteNet list [2]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria Not at all. Reading all what has been written could help understanding what I am trying to comment. I think you took a risk, motivated by a lower price. A risk is a risk, and sometimes turns the wrong way. OF COURSE, it's not your fault. But sometimes taking a risk shoudl be considered the way it is: a risk (of failure and therefore of loss). Banks know it very well, and still sometimes do not valuate the risks they are taking, and we all know the outcomes. Best regards, Luca Mayes, Joseph on 15-12-2009 13:04 wrote: I understand. Because we ordered instruments in good faith from a supposed reputable builder, it is some how our fault. Thank you for clearing that up. Joseph Mayes --- - *From:* [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Luca Manassero *Sent:* Tue 12/15/2009 3:17 AM *To:* LuteNet list *Subject:* [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria Dear LuteList friends, I know that my answer could start an infinite flame, but after reading all these angry messages I feel I'd like to comment. Of course I feel sympathetic with all of you, having lost your money and waiting for an answer whatsoever, but let me point out the following: - there are plenty of lutemakers in the US and in other parts of the world. Lutemakers with a very strong reputation and (often) reasonable waiting lists; - so why you placed an order to a good lutemaker living in a very distant country? I guess mainly because this good lutemaker was cheaper. - Money gain always comes at risk: the higher the gain, the bigger the risk, usually. Everybody can take the consequences of all this. I do not want to suggest anything so tragic, but for what we all know he could be dead, and (as far as I know) there's no internet available THERE. Sorry, but I felt telling you. For the future check that very good lutemaker near you, or one of the many located in Europe and not necessarily disappearing with your deposit(s). Luca To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html -- End of Forwarded Message -- References 1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/l...@manassero.net 2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
2009/12/15 Luca Manassero [1]l...@manassero.net Dear LuteList friends, - there are plenty of lutemakers in the US and in other parts of the world. Lutemakers with a very strong reputation and (often) reasonable waiting lists; Oh yes, if I earned my living in Euros I would only order instruments with good makers. - so why you placed an order to a good lutemaker living in a very distant country? I guess mainly because this good lutemaker was cheaper. Well, and he is not that cheap... his prices have risen considerably. - Money gain always comes at risk: the higher the gain, the bigger the risk, usually. Everybody can take the consequences of all this. A very good lesson indeed. I do not want to suggest anything so tragic, but for what we all know he could be dead, and (as far as I know) there's no internet available THERE. Ok, the guy does not live in a remote village, he does have internet, cell. phone and etc... I'm sure he reads this list, he is aware of all this. Btw he is not dead, I met the guy a month ago. He delivered a theorboed guitar to a friend of mine after many, many calls and a lot of headache. Believe me, it was a pain to get the instrument... Ah, he fretted the guitar with nylon and did not fix the last frets in wood. We did not talk much. A good thing for his health, cause I'm not very happy with him. Sorry, but I felt telling you. For the future check that very good lutemaker near you, or one of the many located in Europe and not necessarily disappearing with your deposit(s). A very good advice. Sorry for all of you. Regards. Luca To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:l...@manassero.net 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
On Dec 15, 2009, at 1:45 AM, Ron Fletcher wrote: It is better to know the truth than to ruin this man's reputation as a good luthier by speculation and hearsay. The truth, according to several list members who say they have personal knowledge, is that Faria is long overdue in making instruments and is not communicating with customers whose money he has taken. This may destroy his reputation, but is certainly not speculation or hearsay. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
I don't know, but I really don't think your speculation of active, deliberate fraud is accurate Vance. Luciano was actively completing orders until some personal event or events derailed his operation. Earlier, he completed mine and many others without hitch. That's just not the behavior of a deliberate con. At some point, with several orders outstanding, something happened that rendered him unable to deliver (I've heard rumored stories of ill parents and car accidents, but nothing from Luciano himself). It's not uncommon to find old material on the web. I myself belong to a great many organizations (tongue in cheek: *almost* entirely legitimate) with a web presence. One of them had a series of pages maintained by a regional parent organization over which we had no control. Those pages are still there and are years out of date. That has resulted in several want-to-be members submitting dues to an address that is not active. Those people subsequently look around long enough to find us and complain. Those in my state organization have been railing for years to get the outdated pages removed to no reply. The fact of an outdated web presence does not mean my state organization is actively engaged in fraud! I think Luciano's case, he being rural with very limited access to the web and communication technology in general, is at least similar. Regarding the lure of cheap product, Luciano's product isn't necessarily cheap. When active, he was delivering workable product of excellent timbers, but upon scrutiny, his execution favors coarse. His prices were quite fair. The bottom line is that Luciano has *not* made good on several outstanding orders, whether he simply fell onto hard times or suddenly decided to cease luthiery in favor of fraud (and I hope it's clear that I suspect the former, more benign case). With such a backlog, anybody to commission from Luciano before making good on his outstanding orders should be aware of the risk. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of vance wood Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 8:43 PM To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria I hate to be the constant cynic but it is an easy thing for someone to be positive, friendly and even accommodating when they have their hand out waiting for the green to flow. However; when this positive, friendly and even accommodating behavior is followed with dodging, equivocating, and a refusal to communicate then one must conclude that they have been taken by a fraud. You might try Interpol but I think they would probably laugh at you behind your back. If one or more of these unrequited purchasers had some discretionary funds it might be fun to locate someone in Brazil capable of finding Mr. Faria and retrieving some or all of your investments. If Mr. Faria still has his web site up and is accepting deposits from it he is guilty of Internet fraud as well. He could be held culpable for this charge as well. One way to interest law enforcement is to provide proof of this kind of activity. - Original Message - From: Robison, John robi...@arts.usf.edu To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 6:30 PM Subject: [LUTE] Luciano Faria Hi everyone, For some time now, I have been reading a lot of the messages and comments made about Luciano Faria. My experience began positively when I submitted a double order for an archlute and a theorbo in January 2007; before submitting the orders, I checked with a few people that had purchased instruments from him, and they had good things to say. I know that he had that car accident early in 2008, I think, and I have read something about his parents, but still, this is ridiculous!!! The last time that he answered one of my e-mails was in August 2008, and at that time he said that he was getting ready to begin work on both instruments. Since then all of my e-mails have gone unanswered, and I have no other way of contacting him. His website has not changed since I first looked at it three years ago. My main reason for ordering the two instruments through him was that some of his archlute and theorbo models will accommodate my slightly small hand/finger size. I simply would like to find out definitely if he is building (or going to build) the two instruments, and if he is going to do a decent job on them. At this point, it is very important for me to find out one way or another, since I may have an opportunity to buy an archlute from someone else right now if Faria is not going to do his job. He has had my deposits on the two instruments for almost three years, and some sort of an honest answer from him would be nice. John O. Robison Univ. of South Florida -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
I don't know, but I really don't think your speculation of active, deliberate fraud is accurate Vance. I took another look at the website, it lists two forms of contact, telephone, and email. there is no information about terms or any means to detail an order. Yes, prices are listed, being several years stale they become more and more enticing. I dont consider the website to be indicitive of fraud in any way. I also noted something else while in google. LF has a day job. Hanover Brazil is an import/export company with offices in the US and Brazil. one of several products they handle is CITES-blessed Rosewood (cut before the ban in 1991). LF is pictured (holding a vihuela) and mentioned as a staffmember. Perhaps an exchange could be worked out for those willing to take Rosewood in trade? I note that the company has a US office where some wood is kept. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
I was not referring to intentional fraud but if he is using the site to make contacts, contract instruments, and take payment for the same but knows that he is either unable or unwilling to deliver a finished product, then it is fraud none the less. If the contact numbers on his site are active, for the purpose of generating business, but he becomes un-reachable when questions arise as to when an instrument will be completed it is fraud. It passes the duck test: If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck it's a duck. If he is not resolving old issues where he has an obligation with funds received for work not completed but is accepting new business it may not be fraud but a good prosecutor could make that argument stick. If at any time he has used the mail system in his communications then he has an even deeper problem. If someone knows this man they should let him know that if he does not make an effort to resolve some of these issues one or more of these unrequited clients could cause him a great deal of grief. - Original Message - From: dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 11:03 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria I don't know, but I really don't think your speculation of active, deliberate fraud is accurate Vance. I took another look at the website, it lists two forms of contact, telephone, and email. there is no information about terms or any means to detail an order. Yes, prices are listed, being several years stale they become more and more enticing. I dont consider the website to be indicitive of fraud in any way. I also noted something else while in google. LF has a day job. Hanover Brazil is an import/export company with offices in the US and Brazil. one of several products they handle is CITES-blessed Rosewood (cut before the ban in 1991). LF is pictured (holding a vihuela) and mentioned as a staffmember. Perhaps an exchange could be worked out for those willing to take Rosewood in trade? I note that the company has a US office where some wood is kept. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4690 (20091215) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4690 (20091215) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
Howard: I am not ruining his reputation, or any of the people who have purchased instruments from him, He has done it to himself by not communicating and by accepting new business while these more pressing issue are left outstanding. It is at the least unethical, and illegal. You can say it is not fraud but you do not have to be a con man, intentionally perpetrating a fraud to commit fraud. Just like you do not have to be a serial murderer to commit murder, or a thief to steal. - Original Message - From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 10:34 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria On Dec 15, 2009, at 1:45 AM, Ron Fletcher wrote: It is better to know the truth than to ruin this man's reputation as a good luthier by speculation and hearsay. The truth, according to several list members who say they have personal knowledge, is that Faria is long overdue in making instruments and is not communicating with customers whose money he has taken. This may destroy his reputation, but is certainly not speculation or hearsay. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4690 (20091215) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4690 (20091215) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
Hi All, I have been following this. If he is taking money and not communicating with people, he is a moron, and it sounds to me like he is a crook too. I wouldn't send him a cent, and I think it's good these people are letting everyone know what is going on. Allan Howard: I am not ruining his reputation, or any of the people who have purchased instruments from him, He has done it to himself by not communicating and by accepting new business while these more pressing issue are left outstanding. It is at the least unethical, and illegal. You can say it is not fraud but you do not have to be a con man, intentionally perpetrating a fraud to commit fraud. Just like you do not have to be a serial murderer to commit murder, or a thief to steal. - Original Message - From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 10:34 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria On Dec 15, 2009, at 1:45 AM, Ron Fletcher wrote: It is better to know the truth than to ruin this man's reputation as a good luthier by speculation and hearsay. The truth, according to several list members who say they have personal knowledge, is that Faria is long overdue in making instruments and is not communicating with customers whose money he has taken. This may destroy his reputation, but is certainly not speculation or hearsay. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4690 (20091215) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4690 (20091215) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com www.mandolinandguitar.com www.guitarandlute.com www.fluteandguitar.com
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
My point is I don't think he's using his site at all. I think it's just there, leftover from a time that he was more actively building. However, I don't know and am not interested in putting much time into pursuing further. He delivered mine years ago. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of vance wood Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 11:46 AM To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria I was not referring to intentional fraud but if he is using the site to make contacts, contract instruments, and take payment for the same but knows that he is either unable or unwilling to deliver a finished product, then it is fraud none the less. If the contact numbers on his site are active, for the purpose of generating business, but he becomes un-reachable when questions arise as to when an instrument will be completed it is fraud. It passes the duck test: If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck it's a duck. If he is not resolving old issues where he has an obligation with funds received for work not completed but is accepting new business it may not be fraud but a good prosecutor could make that argument stick. If at any time he has used the mail system in his communications then he has an even deeper problem. If someone knows this man they should let him know that if he does not make an effort to resolve some of these issues one or more of these unrequited clients could cause him a great deal of grief. - Original Message - From: dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 11:03 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria I don't know, but I really don't think your speculation of active, deliberate fraud is accurate Vance. I took another look at the website, it lists two forms of contact, telephone, and email. there is no information about terms or any means to detail an order. Yes, prices are listed, being several years stale they become more and more enticing. I dont consider the website to be indicitive of fraud in any way. I also noted something else while in google. LF has a day job. Hanover Brazil is an import/export company with offices in the US and Brazil. one of several products they handle is CITES-blessed Rosewood (cut before the ban in 1991). LF is pictured (holding a vihuela) and mentioned as a staffmember. Perhaps an exchange could be worked out for those willing to take Rosewood in trade? I note that the company has a US office where some wood is kept. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4690 (20091215) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4690 (20091215) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
On Dec 15, 2009, at 8:52 AM, vance wood wrote: Howard: I think you may have intended to address your remarks to Ron rather than me. I haven't ventured any of the opinions that you discuss below. I am not ruining his reputation, or any of the people who have purchased instruments from him, He has done it to himself by not communicating and by accepting new business while these more pressing issue are left outstanding. It is at the least unethical, and illegal. You can say it is not fraud but you do not have to be a con man, intentionally perpetrating a fraud to commit fraud. Just like you do not have to be a serial murderer to commit murder, or a thief to steal. - Original Message - From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 10:34 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria On Dec 15, 2009, at 1:45 AM, Ron Fletcher wrote: It is better to know the truth than to ruin this man's reputation as a good luthier by speculation and hearsay. The truth, according to several list members who say they have personal knowledge, is that Faria is long overdue in making instruments and is not communicating with customers whose money he has taken. This may destroy his reputation, but is certainly not speculation or hearsay. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4690 (20091215) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4690 (20091215) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
Howard: With all due respects I sent your post along with my response to it; see below. However; that in itself is not important. The opinions are my own you only made a remark that spawned my remarks. Your words: It is better to know the truth than to ruin this man's reputation as a good luthier by speculation and hearsay. - Original Message - From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 12:37 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria On Dec 15, 2009, at 8:52 AM, vance wood wrote: Howard: I think you may have intended to address your remarks to Ron rather than me. I haven't ventured any of the opinions that you discuss below. I am not ruining his reputation, or any of the people who have purchased instruments from him, He has done it to himself by not communicating and by accepting new business while these more pressing issue are left outstanding. It is at the least unethical, and illegal. You can say it is not fraud but you do not have to be a con man, intentionally perpetrating a fraud to commit fraud. Just like you do not have to be a serial murderer to commit murder, or a thief to steal. - Original Message - From: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 10:34 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria On Dec 15, 2009, at 1:45 AM, Ron Fletcher wrote: It is better to know the truth than to ruin this man's reputation as a good luthier by speculation and hearsay. The truth, according to several list members who say they have personal knowledge, is that Faria is long overdue in making instruments and is not communicating with customers whose money he has taken. This may destroy his reputation, but is certainly not speculation or hearsay. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4690 (20091215) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4690 (20091215) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4690 (20091215) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4690 (20091215) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
On Dec 15, 2009, at 10:33 AM, vance wood wrote: Howard: With all due respects I sent your post along with my response to it; see below. However; that in itself is not important. The opinions are my own you only made a remark that spawned my remarks. Your words: It is better to know the truth than to ruin this man's reputation as a good luthier by speculation and hearsay. Ron Fletcher's words, not mine. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
Interesting...but that's a guitar, Dana. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 11:04 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria I don't know, but I really don't think your speculation of active, deliberate fraud is accurate Vance. I took another look at the website, it lists two forms of contact, telephone, and email. there is no information about terms or any means to detail an order. Yes, prices are listed, being several years stale they become more and more enticing. I dont consider the website to be indicitive of fraud in any way. I also noted something else while in google. LF has a day job. Hanover Brazil is an import/export company with offices in the US and Brazil. one of several products they handle is CITES-blessed Rosewood (cut before the ban in 1991). LF is pictured (holding a vihuela) and mentioned as a staffmember. Perhaps an exchange could be worked out for those willing to take Rosewood in trade? I note that the company has a US office where some wood is kept. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
The truth that he is long overdue in making instruments and not communicating is not disputed. It is the reason why he does not communicate that could save his reputation. Has his workshop been destroyed in a blaze, earthquake or flood? Is he suffering ill-health (physical/mental), died, hospitalized, or is he in jail? It could be that someone else is accepting his orders whilst he is indisposed, believing that he will fulfill his obligations when he returns to full health, (or liberty). Or, is this someone posing as Luciano Faria (without his knowledge), making easy money? Does any of this make Luciano Faria guilty of fraud? There are probably a dozen other possibilities I haven't yet thought of. But all these speculations need to be investigated properly. That can only be done by meeting him face to face. A telephone conversation does not qualify in this respect. He should be given the chance to be honest with his customers if he realizes he can no longer produce instruments. Only then can the possibility of reimbursement be considered. Best Wishes Ron (UK) -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of howard posner Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:34 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria On Dec 15, 2009, at 1:45 AM, Ron Fletcher wrote: It is better to know the truth than to ruin this man's reputation as a good luthier by speculation and hearsay. The truth, according to several list members who say they have personal knowledge, is that Faria is long overdue in making instruments and is not communicating with customers whose money he has taken. This may destroy his reputation, but is certainly not speculation or hearsay. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
Interesting...but that's a guitar, Dana. my bad, I saw more than 8 pegs, forgot some g have 5c. But everyone seems to be ignoring my main point. LF has a day job selling rosewood guitar sets wholesale. He ist trying to work FT as a luthier anymore, no surprise he is slow to deliver. I think it is time for all you who have put money down to get together and approach him thru his employer. They are using his reputation to make sales, and should be concerned to keep it clean... http://www.hanoverbrazil.com/rosewood-guitars.shtml -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, for thoes of you who doubt
Wow. Some inquirer should let him know they AREN'T interested until he makes good on his prior obligations. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Allan Alexander Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:29 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Luciano Faria, for thoes of you who doubt For those of you who wonder about Luciano getting back to them or if he is still building, I sent him a note asking about a Vihuela and he responded to be within about an hour, Allan ___ Dear Allan, Thank you for your message. I don't have any renaissance guitar in stock, but I can build one for you. The price listed at my website is not valid since 2004, so please do not consider it. The actual price is US$ 2.100. The waiting time is around 10 months. Please let me know if you have any other question. Best wishes, Luciano Faria - Original Message - De Allan Alexander Para: lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Sent: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:07:32 -0700 Assunto: Hi... Vihuela Hi Luciano I am very interested in a Renaissance guitar, the one you have on your site is beautiful, is that something you have in stock or can make? Allan His mail with headers -- Status: U Return-Path: lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Received: from mx-austrian.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([127.0.0.1]) by mx-austrian.atl.sa.earthlink.net (EarthLink SMTP Server) with SMTP id 1nkGEh3CX3Nl34j0; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:17:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.001windows.com.br ([200.186.45.140]) by mx-austrian.atl.sa.earthlink.net (EarthLink SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1nkGEg12D3Nl34j0 for guitarandl...@earthlink.net; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:17:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from 189.19.23.37 ([189.19.23.37]) by 001windows.com.br with MailEnable WebMail; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:08:24 -0300 To: guitarandl...@earthlink.net From: lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Subject: Re: Hi... Vihuela Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:08:24 -0200 Message-ID: 369-329-524e066e43e844b18d4b454dbea7ad7@001windows.com.br X-Mailer: MailEnable Web Mail 1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=--=_NextPart_000_000B_4249922F.B1CD464A X-Read: 0 X-ELNK-Received-Info: spv=0; X-ELNK-AV: 0 X-ELNK-Info: sbv=0; sbrc=.0; sbf=0b; sbw=000; X-PMFLAGS: 570949760 0 1 PBUVIW20.CNM This is a multi-part message in MIME format. =_NextPart_000_000B_4249922F.B1CD464A Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Allan, Thank you for your message. I don't have any renaissance guitar in stock, but I can build one for you. The price listed at my website is not valid since 2004, so please do not consider it. The actual price is US$ 2.100. The waiting time is around 10 months. Please let me know if you have any other question. Best wishes, Luciano Faria - Original Message - De Allan Alexander Para: lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Sent: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:07:32 -0700 Assunto: Hi... Vihuela Hi Luciano I am very interested in a Renaissance guitar, the one you have on your site is beautiful, is that something you have in stock or can make? Allan =_NextPart_000_000B_4249922F.B1CD464A-- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
On Dec 16, 2009, at 5:16 AM, Ron Fletcher wrote: A telephone conversation does not qualify in this respect. Why not? Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [1]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp [2]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 2. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, for thoes of you who doubt
Wow! That's really fast! He reads the mails... Anybody still want to order an instrument? 2009/12/15 Allan Alexander [1]guitarandl...@earthlink.net For those of you who wonder about Luciano getting back to them or if he is still building, I sent him a note asking about a Vihuela and he responded to be within about an hour, Allan ___ Dear Allan, Thank you for your message. I don't have any renaissance guitar in stock, but I can build one for you. The price listed at my website is not valid since 2004, so please do not consider it. The actual price is US$ 2.100. The waiting time is around 10 months. Please let me know if you have any other question. Best wishes, Luciano Faria - Original Message - De Allan Alexander Para: [2]lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Sent: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:07:32 -0700 Assunto: Hi... Vihuela Hi Luciano I am very interested in a Renaissance guitar, the one you have on your site is beautiful, is that something you have in stock or can make? Allan His mail with headers -- Status: U Return-Path: [3]lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Received: from [4]mx-austrian.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([127.0.0.1]) by [5]mx-austrian.atl.sa.earthlink.net (EarthLink SMTP Server) with SMTP id 1nkGEh3CX3Nl34j0; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:17:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [6]mail.001windows.com.br ([200.186.45.140]) by [7]mx-austrian.atl.sa.earthlink.net (EarthLink SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1nkGEg12D3Nl34j0 for [8]guitarandl...@earthlink.net; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:17:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from 189.19.23.37 ([189.19.23.37]) by [9]001windows.com.br with MailEnable WebMail; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:08:24 -0300 To: [10]guitarandl...@earthlink.net From: [11]lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Subject: Re: Hi... Vihuela Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:08:24 -0200 Message-ID: [12]287-524e066e43e844b18d4b454dbea7ad7@001windows.com.br X-Mailer: MailEnable Web Mail 1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=--=_NextPart_000_000B_4249922F.B1CD464A X-Read: 0 X-ELNK-Received-Info: spv=0; X-ELNK-AV: 0 X-ELNK-Info: sbv=0; sbrc=.0; sbf=0b; sbw=000; X-PMFLAGS: 570949760 0 1 PBUVIW20.CNM This is a multi-part message in MIME format. =_NextPart_000_000B_4249922F.B1CD464A Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Allan, Thank you for your message. I don't have any renaissance guitar in stock, but I can build one for you. The price listed at my website is not valid since 2004, so please do not consider it. The actual price is US$ 2.100. The waiting time is around 10 months. Please let me know if you have any other question. Best wishes, Luciano Faria - Original Message - De Allan Alexander Para: [13]lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Sent: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:07:32 -0700 Assunto: Hi... Vihuela Hi Luciano I am very interested in a Renaissance guitar, the one you have on your site is beautiful, is that something you have in stock or can make? Allan =_NextPart_000_000B_4249922F.B1CD464A-- To get on or off this list see list information at [14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:guitarandl...@earthlink.net 2. mailto:lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com 3. mailto:lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com 4. http://mx-austrian.atl.sa.earthlink.net/ 5. http://mx-austrian.atl.sa.earthlink.net/ 6. http://mail.001windows.com.br/ 7. http://mx-austrian.atl.sa.earthlink.net/ 8. mailto:guitarandl...@earthlink.net 9. http://001windows.com.br/ 10. mailto:guitarandl...@earthlink.net 11. mailto:lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com 12. mailto:287-524e066e43e844b18d4b454dbea7ad7@001windows.com.br 13. mailto:lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com 14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, for thoes of you who doubt
This kind of confirms my cynical position. If you can get in touch with this guy and get a prompt response why can't these other people who have paid good money for a good instrument even get the time of day from him after years of trying? - Original Message - From: Allan Alexander guitarandl...@earthlink.net To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: [LUTE] Luciano Faria, for thoes of you who doubt For those of you who wonder about Luciano getting back to them or if he is still building, I sent him a note asking about a Vihuela and he responded to be within about an hour, Allan ___ Dear Allan, Thank you for your message. I don't have any renaissance guitar in stock, but I can build one for you. The price listed at my website is not valid since 2004, so please do not consider it. The actual price is US$ 2.100. The waiting time is around 10 months. Please let me know if you have any other question. Best wishes, Luciano Faria - Original Message - De Allan Alexander Para: lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Sent: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:07:32 -0700 Assunto: Hi... Vihuela Hi Luciano I am very interested in a Renaissance guitar, the one you have on your site is beautiful, is that something you have in stock or can make? Allan His mail with headers -- Status: U Return-Path: lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Received: from mx-austrian.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([127.0.0.1]) by mx-austrian.atl.sa.earthlink.net (EarthLink SMTP Server) with SMTP id 1nkGEh3CX3Nl34j0; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:17:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.001windows.com.br ([200.186.45.140]) by mx-austrian.atl.sa.earthlink.net (EarthLink SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1nkGEg12D3Nl34j0 for guitarandl...@earthlink.net; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:17:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from 189.19.23.37 ([189.19.23.37]) by 001windows.com.br with MailEnable WebMail; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:08:24 -0300 To: guitarandl...@earthlink.net From: lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Subject: Re: Hi... Vihuela Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:08:24 -0200 Message-ID: 368-236-524e066e43e844b18d4b454dbea7ad7@001windows.com.br X-Mailer: MailEnable Web Mail 1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=--=_NextPart_000_000B_4249922F.B1CD464A X-Read: 0 X-ELNK-Received-Info: spv=0; X-ELNK-AV: 0 X-ELNK-Info: sbv=0; sbrc=.0; sbf=0b; sbw=000; X-PMFLAGS: 570949760 0 1 PBUVIW20.CNM This is a multi-part message in MIME format. =_NextPart_000_000B_4249922F.B1CD464A Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Allan, Thank you for your message. I don't have any renaissance guitar in stock, but I can build one for you. The price listed at my website is not valid since 2004, so please do not consider it. The actual price is US$ 2.100. The waiting time is around 10 months. Please let me know if you have any other question. Best wishes, Luciano Faria - Original Message - De Allan Alexander Para: lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Sent: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:07:32 -0700 Assunto: Hi... Vihuela Hi Luciano I am very interested in a Renaissance guitar, the one you have on your site is beautiful, is that something you have in stock or can make? Allan =_NextPart_000_000B_4249922F.B1CD464A-- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4691 (20091215) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4691 (20091215) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
I hate to be the constant cynic but it is an easy thing for someone to be positive, friendly and even accommodating when they have their hand out waiting for the green to flow. However; when this positive, friendly and even accommodating behavior is followed with dodging, equivocating, and a refusal to communicate then one must conclude that they have been taken by a fraud. You might try Interpol but I think they would probably laugh at you behind your back. If one or more of these unrequited purchasers had some discretionary funds it might be fun to locate someone in Brazil capable of finding Mr. Faria and retrieving some or all of your investments. If Mr. Faria still has his web site up and is accepting deposits from it he is guilty of Internet fraud as well. He could be held culpable for this charge as well. One way to interest law enforcement is to provide proof of this kind of activity. - Original Message - From: Robison, John robi...@arts.usf.edu To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 6:30 PM Subject: [LUTE] Luciano Faria Hi everyone, For some time now, I have been reading a lot of the messages and comments made about Luciano Faria. My experience began positively when I submitted a double order for an archlute and a theorbo in January 2007; before submitting the orders, I checked with a few people that had purchased instruments from him, and they had good things to say. I know that he had that car accident early in 2008, I think, and I have read something about his parents, but still, this is ridiculous!!! The last time that he answered one of my e-mails was in August 2008, and at that time he said that he was getting ready to begin work on both instruments. Since then all of my e-mails have gone unanswered, and I have no other way of contacting him. His website has not changed since I first looked at it three years ago. My main reason for ordering the two instruments through him was that some of his archlute and theorbo models will accommodate my slightly small hand/finger size. I simply would like to find out definitely if he is building (or going to build) the two instruments, and if he is going to do a decent job on them. At this point, it is very important for me to find out one way or another, since I may have an opportunity to buy an archlute from someone else right now if Faria is not going to do his job. He has had my deposits on the two instruments for almost three years, and some sort of an honest answer from him would be nice. John O. Robison Univ. of South Florida -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4687 (20091214) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4687 (20091214) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
I think you already knew the answer when you asked the question. If you like the other instrument and can afford to spend the money, buy it. If Faria ever delivers --don't hold your breath -- you can sell one archlute or the other; the market for continuo instrument is likely to stay reasonably strong for a while. On Dec 14, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Robison, John wrote: Hi everyone, For some time now, I have been reading a lot of the messages and comments made about Luciano Faria. My experience began positively when I submitted a double order for an archlute and a theorbo in January 2007; before submitting the orders, I checked with a few people that had purchased instruments from him, and they had good things to say. I know that he had that car accident early in 2008, I think, and I have read something about his parents, but still, this is ridiculous!!! The last time that he answered one of my e-mails was in August 2008, and at that time he said that he was getting ready to begin work on both instruments. Since then all of my e-mails have gone unanswered, and I have no other way of contacting him. His website has not changed since I first looked at it three years ago. My main reason for ordering the two instruments through him was that some of his archlute and theorbo models will accommodate my slightly small hand/finger size. I simply would like to find out definitely if he is building (or going to build) the two instruments, and if he is going to do a decent job on them. At this point, it is very important for me to find out one way or another, since I may have an opportunity to buy an archlute from someone else right now if Faria is not going to do his job. He has had my deposits on the two instruments for almost three years, and some sort of an honest answer from him would be nice. John O. Robison Univ. of South Florida -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
And here we always thought it was because it's harder to hit a moving target! On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 9:35 PM, Ed Durbrow [1]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp wrote: On Dec 12, 2009, at 1:46 AM, Guy Smith wrote: Better a theorbo than a bagpipe... You know why bagpipes march while playing, of course. To get away from the noise. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [1][2]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp [2][3]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. mailto:[4]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 2. [5]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 2. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 3. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ 4. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 5. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
My archery mentor actually prefers moving targets. But that takes us OT because his archery is of the Hun Mongol tradition, not European Mediaeval/Renaissance. There is no bagpipe season here in California, anyway. Maybe in the UK?-Dan (Once attempted a duet with a real Highland Bagpiper at the old Eagle Tavern in NYC with my old Hugh Gough 8 course. Not recommended) And here we always thought it was because it's harder to hit a moving target! You know why bagpipes march while playing, of course. To get away from the noise. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
Ah yes! I didn't realize he was on the West coast. I bought a little A lute built by him, a terrific instrument. I had played a guitar he had built that a friend in Grass Valley owns so I knew he was a good maker. When an eBay auction came up with that Rollins instrument, I was lucky enough to win it. I love that lute! So that makes three possibilities in the greater (very much greater) Vancouver area. On Dec 11, 2009, at 8:46 AM, Guy Smith wrote: Another possibility might be John Rollins in Bellingham (about 80 mi north of Seattle). That's at least within the US, although not by very much. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [1]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp [2]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 2. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
He's currently building me a theorbo, which should be ready soon. Let me know if you do end up in this corner of the country. No scotch at the moment, but I do have a bottle of excellent micro-distillery pear brandy (from Oregon)... -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Ed Durbrow Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 1:04 AM To: Guy Smith; LuteNet list Subject: [LUTE] Re: luciano faria Ah yes! I didn't realize he was on the West coast. I bought a little A lute built by him, a terrific instrument. I had played a guitar he had built that a friend in Grass Valley owns so I knew he was a good maker. When an eBay auction came up with that Rollins instrument, I was lucky enough to win it. I love that lute! So that makes three possibilities in the greater (very much greater) Vancouver area. On Dec 11, 2009, at 8:46 AM, Guy Smith wrote: Another possibility might be John Rollins in Bellingham (about 80 mi north of Seattle). That's at least within the US, although not by very much. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [1]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp [2]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 2. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
On Dec 11, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Guy Smith wrote: He's currently building me a theorbo, which should be ready soon. Let me know if you do end up in this corner of the country. No scotch at the moment, but I do have a bottle of excellent micro-distillery pear brandy I just want to remind everyone that operating a theorbo while under the influence of alcohol is not only illegal, but extremely dangerous. Sorry for the interruption. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
I have a medical prescription for 6 courses or less. Adequate. Sean On Dec 11, 2009, at 7:59 AM, howard posner wrote: I just want to remind everyone that operating a theorbo while under the influence of alcohol is not only illegal, but extremely dangerous. Sorry for the interruption. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
Well, if your continuo lasts more than 6 hrs, consult your doctor (I'm available; will work for gut string refills) OTOH, if your continuo lasts more than 6 hrs, better make sure the singer is still singing and the audience is still in the hall Danny On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Sean Smith [1]lutesm...@mac.com wrote: I have a medical prescription for 6 courses or less. Adequate. Sean On Dec 11, 2009, at 7:59 AM, howard posner wrote: I just want to remind everyone that operating a theorbo while under the influence of alcohol is not only illegal, but extremely dangerous. Sorry for the interruption. To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:lutesm...@mac.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
Better a theorbo than a bagpipe... -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of howard posner Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:59 AM To: LuteNet list Subject: [LUTE] Re: luciano faria On Dec 11, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Guy Smith wrote: He's currently building me a theorbo, which should be ready soon. Let me know if you do end up in this corner of the country. No scotch at the moment, but I do have a bottle of excellent micro-distillery pear brandy I just want to remind everyone that operating a theorbo while under the influence of alcohol is not only illegal, but extremely dangerous. Sorry for the interruption. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
The connection between single malt scotch theorboes has me concerned. Those of us limited to regular lutes should double our malts at the octave. Especially at this time of year. He's currently building me a theorbo, which should be ready soon. Let me know if you do end up in this corner of the country. No scotch at the moment, but I do have a bottle of excellent micro-distillery pear brandy I just want to remind everyone that operating a theorbo while under the influence of alcohol is not only illegal, but extremely dangerous. Stick to small ensembles slow tempi. If pulled over, call Howard! Dan -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
It's more dangerous without the alcohol. d At 07:59 AM 12/11/2009, you wrote: On Dec 11, 2009, at 7:46 AM, Guy Smith wrote: He's currently building me a theorbo, which should be ready soon. Let me know if you do end up in this corner of the country. No scotch at the moment, but I do have a bottle of excellent micro-distillery pear brandy I just want to remind everyone that operating a theorbo while under the influence of alcohol is not only illegal, but extremely dangerous. Sorry for the interruption. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 6:30 PM, David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: It's more dangerous without the alcohol. I could have used some today. It was 10 degrees celcius in the church, and I didn't have much to play: sit and wait, freezing fingers, dropping guts. David -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *** To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
On Dec 12, 2009, at 1:46 AM, Guy Smith wrote: Better a theorbo than a bagpipe... You know why bagpipes march while playing, of course. To get away from the noise. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [1]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp [2]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 2. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
What are you implying Vance? That we as customers are wrong? I paid half up front for a baroque lute in Dec 2005, and still don't have anything to show. I am still hoping... but I doubt I will ever see anything. -Arthur -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of vance wood Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 4:11 PM To: Lute List ; THOMAS GEORGI Subject: [LUTE] Re: luciano faria It seems to me that there has been a good deal about Mr. Faria on this list over the last year or two. Have you talked to him directly? I think (if I am correct) you may get some additional responses. - Original Message - From: THOMAS GEORGI thomasgeo...@rogers.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 10:03 AM Subject: [LUTE] luciano faria Is there anybody who can recommend Luciano Faria or has experience ordering an instrument from him? I am considering order a vaboam guitar from him. Thanks, Tom Georgi -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4673 (20091209) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4674 (20091209) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
Mr Faria may well be both a skilled luthier and a person of conscience, over-commited and overwhelmed, trying hard to catch up while also supporting family. He has done good and timely work in the past. Unfortunately, good reputations are easily lost when one cant or wont communicate with the client; and just as I am not getting any work done composing ths, he doesnt get any further caught up on the luthiery by keeping in touch, especially if he has (as I have) to travel to a public facility to get internet access. I have no idea what his actual difficulties are, this is speculation. It is not at all hard for a small business to get to where he might be; in theory one is supposed to price the product high enough to allow one to hire out the work during periods of vacation or difficulty; but that works far better for small businesses with a few semi-skilled workers using standardized production technology than for a single-man shop doing fussy hand labor hugely dependent on subjective and artistic decisions. Usually the single-man is irreplaceable. The singleman also has a hard time pricing his own labor; even perceiving all of it can be hard. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
As a luthier myself, I have empathy for any difficulties being experienced by Luciano. That's as it should be, but when it comes to actually doing business, all rises to another level. I was/am willing to give him every consideration, but when it comes down to your money is gone and you get no instruments, either then it goes too far. When someone askes for a recommendation for this man, I think it would be unethical not to relate my own - and seemingly others' experience. Joseph Mayes On 12/10/09 1:06 PM, dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: Mr Faria may well be both a skilled luthier and a person of conscience, over-commited and overwhelmed, trying hard to catch up while also supporting family. He has done good and timely work in the past. Unfortunately, good reputations are easily lost when one cant or wont communicate with the client; and just as I am not getting any work done composing ths, he doesnt get any further caught up on the luthiery by keeping in touch, especially if he has (as I have) to travel to a public facility to get internet access. I have no idea what his actual difficulties are, this is speculation. It is not at all hard for a small business to get to where he might be; in theory one is supposed to price the product high enough to allow one to hire out the work during periods of vacation or difficulty; but that works far better for small businesses with a few semi-skilled workers using standardized production technology than for a single-man shop doing fussy hand labor hugely dependent on subjective and artistic decisions. Usually the single-man is irreplaceable. The singleman also has a hard time pricing his own labor; even perceiving all of it can be hard. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
As a luthier myself, I have empathy for any difficulties being experienced by Luciano. That's as it should be, but when it comes to actually doing business, all rises to another level. agreed. Were these times akin to hstorical times there would be a guild or a mayor and town council one could look to for oversight. in todays times there is bankruptcy court, for those with standing to bring complaint. We are not in Brazil, and have little in the way of standing; nor is it conveniant to make moan of any kind. I notice that LF now has a web page advertising his work. A rather impressive page at that, with many different instruments on show. I see nothing in the way of terms, no pictures of the shop, no instruments listed as ready for sale (that page is under construction), no discussion of materials used (also under construction). New orders are of course necessary if the man and his family are to eat; but one hopes the man is also budgeting his time in the shop to include some progress on old commitments. It would be nice if he made some public acknowlegement of the backlist; perhaps with pictures showing progress. When someone askes for a recommendation for this man, I think it would be unethical not to relate my own no argument. I wonder if there is any point in trying some kind of group action? A public website listing outstanding commitments might be a beginning. To be fair, balance it with a similar list of delivered instruments. Include a challenge to him to echo it on his own site. I dont think any want him to go under, just want what was contracted for. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
Luciano's site has been sitting as is for several years. One of the instruments pictured there is my own. I also have several images in my own files of several instruments underway in his shop at the time that site was being assembled. Something has changed between then and now. His web site hasn't. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:49 PM To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: luciano faria As a luthier myself, I have empathy for any difficulties being experienced by Luciano. That's as it should be, but when it comes to actually doing business, all rises to another level. agreed. Were these times akin to hstorical times there would be a guild or a mayor and town council one could look to for oversight. in todays times there is bankruptcy court, for those with standing to bring complaint. We are not in Brazil, and have little in the way of standing; nor is it conveniant to make moan of any kind. I notice that LF now has a web page advertising his work. A rather impressive page at that, with many different instruments on show. I see nothing in the way of terms, no pictures of the shop, no instruments listed as ready for sale (that page is under construction), no discussion of materials used (also under construction). New orders are of course necessary if the man and his family are to eat; but one hopes the man is also budgeting his time in the shop to include some progress on old commitments. It would be nice if he made some public acknowlegement of the backlist; perhaps with pictures showing progress. When someone askes for a recommendation for this man, I think it would be unethical not to relate my own no argument. I wonder if there is any point in trying some kind of group action? A public website listing outstanding commitments might be a beginning. To be fair, balance it with a similar list of delivered instruments. Include a challenge to him to echo it on his own site. I dont think any want him to go under, just want what was contracted for. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
This is so discouraging. I have been trying to decide what to do with my archlute he built for me. It has been sitting in its case for years because it is unplayable. Basically, it has a bulge in the soundboard around the 12th fret and buzzes up there. I've been to two lute makers here who refuse to fix it. It may require a new top as the top is so thin in that area. I've pretty much decided it just isn't worth the risk of sending it back to Brazil for a fix. The shipping would be a lot and I may not get it back. I'll be coming to CA in a couple of months and thought of swinging through Vancouver where there is either Grant Tomlinson or Ray Nurse, but I've heard Air Canada has gone very draconian on their oversize baggage policy. How about luthiers in Northern CA? Any recommendations of someone who could either repair or replace the top with a new wonderful top reasonably? Airlines to look at? TIA On Dec 11, 2009, at 4:21 AM, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: Luciano's site has been sitting as is for several years. One of the instruments pictured there is my own. I also have several images in my own files of several instruments underway in his shop at the time that site was being assembled. Something has changed between then and now. His web site hasn't. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [1]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp [2]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 2. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
Not wishing to condemn anyone without knowing all of the circumstances but it seems to me if the man has time and resources in time to put up a new first rate web site advertising instruments for sale, knowing that he may not be able to complete those orders, or ignore some of them, or all of them,--- it is fraud. I don't know how international law works in matters like this but I certainly would not invest several thousands of dollars not being reasonably assured that I will get what I have ordered in a timely manner. - Original Message - From: dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:49 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: luciano faria As a luthier myself, I have empathy for any difficulties being experienced by Luciano. That's as it should be, but when it comes to actually doing business, all rises to another level. agreed. Were these times akin to hstorical times there would be a guild or a mayor and town council one could look to for oversight. in todays times there is bankruptcy court, for those with standing to bring complaint. We are not in Brazil, and have little in the way of standing; nor is it conveniant to make moan of any kind. I notice that LF now has a web page advertising his work. A rather impressive page at that, with many different instruments on show. I see nothing in the way of terms, no pictures of the shop, no instruments listed as ready for sale (that page is under construction), no discussion of materials used (also under construction). New orders are of course necessary if the man and his family are to eat; but one hopes the man is also budgeting his time in the shop to include some progress on old commitments. It would be nice if he made some public acknowlegement of the backlist; perhaps with pictures showing progress. When someone askes for a recommendation for this man, I think it would be unethical not to relate my own no argument. I wonder if there is any point in trying some kind of group action? A public website listing outstanding commitments might be a beginning. To be fair, balance it with a similar list of delivered instruments. Include a challenge to him to echo it on his own site. I dont think any want him to go under, just want what was contracted for. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4677 (20091210) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4677 (20091210) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
Luciano's is NOT a new web site. It is a rather old web site that has not been updated for several years, not updated since he was actually completing orders, perhaps early 2005 judging from my own correspondences with him. Again, something happened between then and now--both regarding orders not completed and a site not updated--and it's unfortunate. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of vance wood Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 4:35 PM To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: luciano faria Not wishing to condemn anyone without knowing all of the circumstances but it seems to me if the man has time and resources in time to put up a new first rate web site advertising instruments for sale, knowing that he may not be able to complete those orders, or ignore some of them, or all of them,--- it is fraud. I don't know how international law works in matters like this but I certainly would not invest several thousands of dollars not being reasonably assured that I will get what I have ordered in a timely manner. - Original Message - From: dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 1:49 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: luciano faria As a luthier myself, I have empathy for any difficulties being experienced by Luciano. That's as it should be, but when it comes to actually doing business, all rises to another level. agreed. Were these times akin to hstorical times there would be a guild or a mayor and town council one could look to for oversight. in todays times there is bankruptcy court, for those with standing to bring complaint. We are not in Brazil, and have little in the way of standing; nor is it conveniant to make moan of any kind. I notice that LF now has a web page advertising his work. A rather impressive page at that, with many different instruments on show. I see nothing in the way of terms, no pictures of the shop, no instruments listed as ready for sale (that page is under construction), no discussion of materials used (also under construction). New orders are of course necessary if the man and his family are to eat; but one hopes the man is also budgeting his time in the shop to include some progress on old commitments. It would be nice if he made some public acknowlegement of the backlist; perhaps with pictures showing progress. When someone askes for a recommendation for this man, I think it would be unethical not to relate my own no argument. I wonder if there is any point in trying some kind of group action? A public website listing outstanding commitments might be a beginning. To be fair, balance it with a similar list of delivered instruments. Include a challenge to him to echo it on his own site. I dont think any want him to go under, just want what was contracted for. -- Dana Emery To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4677 (20091210) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4677 (20091210) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
You could ask Mel Wong to fix it, his repairs are excellent. You can swing through SF and we will drink Single Malts. dt At 01:27 PM 12/10/2009, you wrote: This is so discouraging. I have been trying to decide what to do with my archlute he built for me. It has been sitting in its case for years because it is unplayable. Basically, it has a bulge in the soundboard around the 12th fret and buzzes up there. I've been to two lute makers here who refuse to fix it. It may require a new top as the top is so thin in that area. I've pretty much decided it just isn't worth the risk of sending it back to Brazil for a fix. The shipping would be a lot and I may not get it back. I'll be coming to CA in a couple of months and thought of swinging through Vancouver where there is either Grant Tomlinson or Ray Nurse, but I've heard Air Canada has gone very draconian on their oversize baggage policy. How about luthiers in Northern CA? Any recommendations of someone who could either repair or replace the top with a new wonderful top reasonably? Airlines to look at? TIA On Dec 11, 2009, at 4:21 AM, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: Luciano's site has been sitting as is for several years. One of the instruments pictured there is my own. I also have several images in my own files of several instruments underway in his shop at the time that site was being assembled. Something has changed between then and now. His web site hasn't. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [1]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp [2]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 2. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
I can also testify to the excellence of Mel Wong's work. He replaced the soundboard on my old 1963 Raymond Passauro 7 course and I didn't even have to pay him because the previous owner did, or at least I hope he/they did. mark David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: You could ask Mel Wong to fix it, his repairs are excellent. You can swing through SF and we will drink Single Malts. dt At 01:27 PM 12/10/2009, you wrote: This is so discouraging. I have been trying to decide what to do with my archlute he built for me. It has been sitting in its case for years because it is unplayable. Basically, it has a bulge in the soundboard around the 12th fret and buzzes up there. I've been to two lute makers here who refuse to fix it. It may require a new top as the top is so thin in that area. I've pretty much decided it just isn't worth the risk of sending it back to Brazil for a fix. The shipping would be a lot and I may not get it back. I'll be coming to CA in a couple of months and thought of swinging through Vancouver where there is either Grant Tomlinson or Ray Nurse, but I've heard Air Canada has gone very draconian on their oversize baggage policy. How about luthiers in Northern CA? Any recommendations of someone who could either repair or replace the top with a new wonderful top reasonably? Airlines to look at? TIA On Dec 11, 2009, at 4:21 AM, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: Luciano's site has been sitting as is for several years. One of the instruments pictured there is my own. I also have several images in my own files of several instruments underway in his shop at the time that site was being assembled. Something has changed between then and now. His web site hasn't. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [1]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp [2]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 2. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
I can third that motion. Mel has rescued four of my instruments over the years to varying degrees- from a side crack in a vihuela (for bottle of Italian red wine) to a transfiguration of my 10 course lute into a small archlute. If David still has some of that special Oban on hand, that alone is worth the detour to the San Francisco area. I have 2/3 of a bottle of their Booze Ordinaire, and that beats out most other single malts. Dan I can also testify to the excellence of Mel Wong's work. He replaced the soundboard on my old 1963 Raymond Passauro 7 course and I didn't even have to pay him because the previous owner did, or at least I hope he/they did. mark David Tayler vidan...@sbcglobal.net wrote: You could ask Mel Wong to fix it, his repairs are excellent. You can swing through SF and we will drink Single Malts. dt -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
good luck getting the instrument many times over this luthier has been discussed on the list.A He takes forever to finish the instrumentsA ( 3 years...) hard to reach, never answers his emails, apparently he lives in a remote village in Brazil and has difficulty getting to his emails... A Bruno On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 10:03 AM, THOMAS GEORGI [1]thomasgeo...@rogers.com wrote: A A Is there anybody who can recommend Luciano Faria or has experience A ordering an instrument from him? I am considering order a vaboam guitar A from him. A Thanks, Tom Georgi A -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:thomasgeo...@rogers.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
I feel obliged to point out that this is a recent development, and somebody on the list offered that it was precipitated by an automobile accident. I ordered an instrument from Luciano in 2003 and received it as promised without any snags around nine months after finalizing the order. Mine is the mandolino pictured on his site. I am happy to offer more detail of the piece to any who asks. Best, Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Bruno Fournier Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 10:29 AM To: THOMAS GEORGI Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: luciano faria good luck getting the instrument many times over this luthier has been discussed on the list.A He takes forever to finish the instrumentsA ( 3 years...) hard to reach, never answers his emails, apparently he lives in a remote village in Brazil and has difficulty getting to his emails... A Bruno On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 10:03 AM, THOMAS GEORGI [1]thomasgeo...@rogers.com wrote: A A Is there anybody who can recommend Luciano Faria or has experience A ordering an instrument from him? I am considering order a vaboam guitar A from him. A Thanks, Tom Georgi A -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:thomasgeo...@rogers.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
I wouldn't recommend this luthier to anyone!! I have three instruments ordered - one completely paid for - that are at least three years overdue. I finally reached him by phone and he told me he had no idea when I would get my instruments. I then asked for my money back. He said that was not possible either. What's left for me to do? Interpol? Instead of ordering a guitar from Luciano, just send him the money. It will save you a bunch of unrewarding anticipation and amount to the same thing. Find another luthier!!! Best, Joseph Mayes __ From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of THOMAS GEORGI Sent: Wed 12/9/2009 10:03 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] luciano faria Is there anybody who can recommend Luciano Faria or has experience ordering an instrument from him? I am considering order a vaboam guitar from him. Thanks, Tom Georgi -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
What a disappointment that it has come to this. My dealings with Luciano in 2003-04 really were timely and pleasant. Too bad... Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Mayes, Joseph Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 11:34 AM To: THOMAS GEORGI; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: luciano faria I wouldn't recommend this luthier to anyone!! I have three instruments ordered - one completely paid for - that are at least three years overdue. I finally reached him by phone and he told me he had no idea when I would get my instruments. I then asked for my money back. He said that was not possible either. What's left for me to do? Interpol? Instead of ordering a guitar from Luciano, just send him the money. It will save you a bunch of unrewarding anticipation and amount to the same thing. Find another luthier!!! Best, Joseph Mayes __ From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of THOMAS GEORGI Sent: Wed 12/9/2009 10:03 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] luciano faria Is there anybody who can recommend Luciano Faria or has experience ordering an instrument from him? I am considering order a vaboam guitar from him. Thanks, Tom Georgi -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
It seems to me that there has been a good deal about Mr. Faria on this list over the last year or two. Have you talked to him directly? I think (if I am correct) you may get some additional responses. - Original Message - From: THOMAS GEORGI thomasgeo...@rogers.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 10:03 AM Subject: [LUTE] luciano faria Is there anybody who can recommend Luciano Faria or has experience ordering an instrument from him? I am considering order a vaboam guitar from him. Thanks, Tom Georgi -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4673 (20091209) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4674 (20091209) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
[LUTE] Re: luciano faria
I have to agree with Joseph. I ordered a 10 course from him. Finally got it (damaged) one year late, returned it to him for repair and haven't seen it since. He no longer replies to my emails or skype messages. It is very unfortunate. I got a vihuela from him initially and the instrument is fantastic. He is a talented luthier and could probably make a good living if he actually delivered what he promised. Maybe one day I will receive the lute but I'm not holding my breath. Steven - Original Message From: vance wood vancew...@wowway.com To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; THOMAS GEORGI thomasgeo...@rogers.com Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 1:10:45 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: luciano faria It seems to me that there has been a good deal about Mr. Faria on this list over the last year or two. Have you talked to him directly? I think (if I am correct) you may get some additional responses. - Original Message - From: THOMAS GEORGI thomasgeo...@rogers.com To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 10:03 AM Subject: [LUTE] luciano faria Is there anybody who can recommend Luciano Faria or has experience ordering an instrument from him? I am considering order a vaboam guitar from him. Thanks, Tom Georgi -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4673 (20091209) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4674 (20091209) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, Luthier
- Original Message - From: Bruno Correia bruno.l...@gmail.com To: LuteNet list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 2:05 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, Luthier Hello, I've just called him and he assured me that all the orders will be delivered. He had may troubles last year and everything is delayed... He can be reached at this cell. number: 19 8121 9479. Just a question: Why are so many people from so far ordering instruments from him? There are so many good makers abroad... Luciano has so many orders that if a student of mine wanted to start playing the lute, he'll have to wait quite a long time to have his instrument. That's not good. Unfortunately we have in Brazil few lute makers, not to say just one that I might trust. Regards. I tried to call Luciano Faria on a conference call with a Brazilian friend a week or so ago and my friend said that the recorded message said that that phone number was no longer in existence. That number was: 55 19 3561 2912 Do you have a different number, Bruno? I sent an email too but have not heard back. The email address I have is: [1]lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Does anyone have more recent contact info? -- References 1. mailto:lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.329 / Virus Database: 270.12.31/2116 - Release Date: 05/15/09 06:16:00
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, Luthier
What I'd known of Luciano's communication troubles in the past is that his network services were provided via radio. This latest round of radio silence seems much more substantial than technical issues. PS: My Faria mandolino arrived in perfect health summer 2004 after only a ca. 1/2-3/4 year commission. Eugene -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Rebecca Banks Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 5:52 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, Luthier May 13th, 2009 Dear Lutenists: Re: Luciano Faria, I had a good experience with Luciano, although it took about 2 years to make the Bass Renaissance Lute it did arrive all in bubble wrap with a great case lined in blue. I think he lives on the outskirts of Sao Paulo and goes into town for supplies occasionally so he is away from his computer (and I think his computer is run on a generator, which occasionally goes down)(Eugene Braig knows, he told me this). My guess is he will probably come through for you, he has a business reputation (although I also know that artists or artisans lives are often conflicted). My last direct contact was about 3 years ago. Best of luck! with thanks, Rebecca Banks Tea at Tympani Lane Records [1]www.tympanilanerecords.com __ Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, [2]in one place. -- References 1. http://www.tympanilanerecords.com/ 2. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660824 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, Luthier
Hello, I've just called him and he assured me that all the orders will be delivered. He had may troubles last year and everything is delayed... He can be reached at this cell. number: 19 8121 9479. Just a question: Why are so many people from so far ordering instruments from him? There are so many good makers abroad... Luciano has so many orders that if a student of mine wanted to start playing the lute, he'll have to wait quite a long time to have his instrument. That's not good. Unfortunately we have in Brazil few lute makers, not to say just one that I might trust. Regards. I tried to call Luciano Faria on a conference call with a Brazilian friend a week or so ago and my friend said that the recorded message said that that phone number was no longer in existence. That number was: 55 19 3561 2912 Do you have a different number, Bruno? I sent an email too but have not heard back. The email address I have is: [1]lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Does anyone have more recent contact info? -- References 1. mailto:lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, Luthier
On May 13, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Bruno Correia wrote: I'll give him a call, let's see what's happening... I tried to call Luciano Faria on a conference call with a Brazilian friend a week or so ago and my friend said that the recorded message said that that phone number was no longer in existence. That number was: 55 19 3561 2912 Do you have a different number, Bruno? I sent an email too but have not heard back. The email address I have is: lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Does anyone have more recent contact info? I know several folks here have had problems getting in touch with him in the past. Any successes? I thought there were a couple of people who got their instruments and the conversation seemed to die down so I am saddened to hear there are still those who haven't. My friend Jake finally got his theorbo from him. That was last year. He told me Luciano's parents had both died in the year and so he cut him some slack. Anyone else here still out money and instrument? I was debating about sending my archlute all the way there for a repair. It's a moot point if I cannot get a hold of him though. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, Luthier
I am still waiting on a Baroque Lute (for around 3+ yrs). I caught him in email last May, where he said it should be ready in 2 weeks... but never heard from him again. -Arthur -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Ed Durbrow Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 9:07 AM To: LuteNet list Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, Luthier On May 13, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Bruno Correia wrote: I'll give him a call, let's see what's happening... I tried to call Luciano Faria on a conference call with a Brazilian friend a week or so ago and my friend said that the recorded message said that that phone number was no longer in existence. That number was: 55 19 3561 2912 Do you have a different number, Bruno? I sent an email too but have not heard back. The email address I have is: lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Does anyone have more recent contact info? I know several folks here have had problems getting in touch with him in the past. Any successes? I thought there were a couple of people who got their instruments and the conversation seemed to die down so I am saddened to hear there are still those who haven't. My friend Jake finally got his theorbo from him. That was last year. He told me Luciano's parents had both died in the year and so he cut him some slack. Anyone else here still out money and instrument? I was debating about sending my archlute all the way there for a repair. It's a moot point if I cannot get a hold of him though. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, Luthier
Hello all, A I had considered getting a medieval lute from him but had reservations.A First because he took over 3 months to respond to my initial email, then because of the distance and the risks associated with transportation.A A LauraA Maschi in Argentina might have some news. I believe she deals with him on occasion. A Laura, A?sabes donde se encuentra Luciano Fario? A parece que su telefono ya no funciona. A A -- Bruno Cognyl-Fournier Luthiste, etc Estavel Ensemble de musique ancienne [1]www.estavel.org A On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Ed Durbrow [2]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp wrote: On May 13, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Bruno Correia wrote: A A I'll give him a call, let's see what's happening... I tried to call Luciano Faria on a conference call with a Brazilian friend a week or so ago and my friend said that the recorded message said that that phone number was no longer in existence. That number was: 55 19 3561 2912 Do you have a different number, Bruno? I sent an email too but have not heard back. The email address I have is: [3]lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Does anyone have more recent contact info? I know several folks here have had problems getting in touch with him in the past. Any successes? I thought there were a couple of people who got their instruments and the conversation seemed to die down so I am saddened to hear there are still those who haven't. My friend Jake finally got his theorbo from him. That was last year. He told me Luciano's parents had both died in the year and so he cut him some slack. Anyone else here still out money and instrument? I was debating about sending my archlute all the way there for a repair. It's a moot point if I cannot get a hold of him though. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [4]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp [5]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Bruno Cognyl-Fournier Luthiste, etc Estavel Ensemble de musique ancienne [7]www.estavel.org -- References 1. http://www.estavel.org/ 2. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 3. mailto:lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com 4. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 5. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. http://www.estavel.org/
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, Luthier
I received a beautifully crafted 8 course lute from him about 2 months ago. The instrument was several months late, but I received it in perfect condition. He was very difficult to get in touch with during the course of the transaction, but ultimately it worked out for me. Ron On May 13, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Bruno Correia wrote: I'll give him a call, let's see what's happening... I tried to call Luciano Faria on a conference call with a Brazilian friend a week or so ago and my friend said that the recorded message said that that phone number was no longer in existence. That number was: 55 19 3561 2912 Do you have a different number, Bruno? I sent an email too but have not heard back. The email address I have is: lucianofa...@lucianofaria.com Does anyone have more recent contact info? I know several folks here have had problems getting in touch with him in the past. Any successes? I thought there were a couple of people who got their instruments and the conversation seemed to die down so I am saddened to hear there are still those who haven't. My friend Jake finally got his theorbo from him. That was last year. He told me Luciano's parents had both died in the year and so he cut him some slack. Anyone else here still out money and instrument? I was debating about sending my archlute all the way there for a repair. It's a moot point if I cannot get a hold of him though. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, Luthier
May 13th, 2009 Dear Lutenists: Re: Luciano Faria, I had a good experience with Luciano, although it took about 2 years to make the Bass Renaissance Lute it did arrive all in bubble wrap with a great case lined in blue. I think he lives on the outskirts of Sao Paulo and goes into town for supplies occasionally so he is away from his computer (and I think his computer is run on a generator, which occasionally goes down)(Eugene Braig knows, he told me this). My guess is he will probably come through for you, he has a business reputation (although I also know that artists or artisans lives are often conflicted). My last direct contact was about 3 years ago. Best of luck! with thanks, Rebecca Banks Tea at Tympani Lane Records [1]www.tympanilanerecords.com __ Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, [2]in one place. -- References 1. http://www.tympanilanerecords.com/ 2. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660824 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, Luthier
This is a very sad story, a story I already had to read about somebodyelse, thou. Then finally all went OK. I was shortly in touch by e-mail with Luciano Faria in 2007 to ask him about a Baroque lute: he promptly answered all my e-mails. I didn't finally buy it, as I couldn't really trust the shipping... I already got at least one shipped lute arriving broken. I hope that reading your e-mail on this list he will get back to you very, very soon. Two deposits plus a fully paid instrument is really a bit too much :-( Good luck, Luca Mayes, Joseph on 12-05-2009 19:38 wrote: Howdy Collected Wisdom I wanted to update the list on my travails with the above-captioned luthier for two reasons: 1. When I posted my tail of woe before, several people responded with similar stories. I think there is some value in an ongoing cautionary tale. and 2. There may yet be a resolution, and I would hate to leave the story only half-told. After my last posting, I heard from Luciano. He said he was at fault, and that if I just allowed him two weeks, he would set all straight. that was on February 25th. (These have been the longest two weeks, ever!) Once again, he has vanished from telephone and email correspondence. I have deposits on two instruments and a fully paid-for theorbo that I must begin to consider lost. Take a lesson for my woes - it doesn't matter how good the price, or how fine the instrument if you never get it. Best Regards, Joseph Mayes -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, Luthier
Thanks, Luca I think I'll need all the luck I can get. Best, Joseph Mayes __ From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Luca Manassero Sent: Tue 5/12/2009 2:12 PM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, Luthier This is a very sad story, a story I already had to read about somebodyelse, thou. Then finally all went OK. I was shortly in touch by e-mail with Luciano Faria in 2007 to ask him about a Baroque lute: he promptly answered all my e-mails. I didn't finally buy it, as I couldn't really trust the shipping... I already got at least one shipped lute arriving broken. I hope that reading your e-mail on this list he will get back to you very, very soon. Two deposits plus a fully paid instrument is really a bit too much :-( Good luck, Luca Mayes, Joseph on 12-05-2009 19:38 wrote: Howdy Collected Wisdom I wanted to update the list on my travails with the above-captioned luthier for two reasons: 1. When I posted my tail of woe before, several people responded with similar stories. I think there is some value in an ongoing cautionary tale. and 2. There may yet be a resolution, and I would hate to leave the story only half-told. After my last posting, I heard from Luciano. He said he was at fault, and that if I just allowed him two weeks, he would set all straight. that was on February 25th. (These have been the longest two weeks, ever!) Once again, he has vanished from telephone and email correspondence. I have deposits on two instruments and a fully paid-for theorbo that I must begin to consider lost. Take a lesson for my woes - it doesn't matter how good the price, or how fine the instrument if you never get it. Best Regards, Joseph Mayes -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, Luthier
I'll give him a call, let's see what's happening... Regards. 2009/5/12 Mayes, Joseph [1]ma...@rowan.edu Thanks, Luca I think I'll need all the luck I can get. Best, Joseph Mayes __ From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of Luca Manassero Sent: Tue 5/12/2009 2:12 PM To: [3]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria, Luthier This is a very sad story, a story I already had to read about somebodyelse, thou. Then finally all went OK. I was shortly in touch by e-mail with Luciano Faria in 2007 to ask him about a Baroque lute: he promptly answered all my e-mails. I didn't finally buy it, as I couldn't really trust the shipping... I already got at least one shipped lute arriving broken. I hope that reading your e-mail on this list he will get back to you very, very soon. Two deposits plus a fully paid instrument is really a bit too much :-( Good luck, Luca Mayes, Joseph on 12-05-2009 19:38 wrote: Howdy Collected Wisdom I wanted to update the list on my travails with the above-captioned luthier for two reasons: 1. When I posted my tail of woe before, several people responded with similar stories. I think there is some value in an ongoing cautionary tale. and 2. There may yet be a resolution, and I would hate to leave the story only half-told. After my last posting, I heard from Luciano. He said he was at fault, and that if I just allowed him two weeks, he would set all straight. that was on February 25th. (These have been the longest two weeks, ever!) Once again, he has vanished from telephone and email correspondence. I have deposits on two instruments and a fully paid-for theorbo that I must begin to consider lost. Take a lesson for my woes - it doesn't matter how good the price, or how fine the instrument if you never get it. Best Regards, Joseph Mayes -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:ma...@rowan.edu 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Luciano Faria
Davide I notice in an advertisement in the latest Guild of American Luthiers journal that Luciano Faria is working with a Company named HanoverBrazil ( www.hanoverbrazil.com) importing CITES certified Brazilian Rosewood to the US. Perhaps you may be able to contact him through that company. Regards William 2008/6/25 Davide Bioccoli [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi all, does anyone know anything about Luciano Faria? is he still in activity? I've ordered in October 2006,and it would have been ready for October 2007,but I don't have any contact from him since months. Thank you for help Regards Davide To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htmlhttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html --
