Re: Apple Watch Series 9

[Jessica Moss]

Something to keep in mind regarding your Apple Watch, especially if you’re 
talking pairing bluetooth/connecting it to cellular data, while all these 
features are great features to have, the more stuff you have continuously 
running in the background/paired up with it, that can and will drain your 
battery faster.

> On Jun 4, 2024, at 9:25 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks to all on this thread. I'm pretty much in the same place as ET on
> the verge of purchasing a watch and making these decisions for myself.
> 
> I suspect I am willing to pay the extra (now $15 at T-Mo) for the
> cellular service as I simply can't justify lugging around a big old
> phone if my watch will do everything I need whilst I'm out and about.
> However, I expect I'll pair a bluetooth headset with the watch. I'm
> presuming the audio quality issue, understandably less from the watch
> itself, is obviated by the headset? Frankly, I don't want to rely on
> audio on my wrist while I'm carrying things and walking/riding around
> manhattan with all its local noises. It seems a headset is the only
> practical approach here. If I'm wrong, I simply cancel the cellular
> service after a month or two and go back to lugging my phone around.
> 
> But that raises the prospect of what else I might want to do on my
> phone. I certainly expect to read messages. I expect to read mail. And,
> I expect to take and review notes. If I can add Safari into that mix the
> case for watch only whilst out and about grows. Can I?
> 
> Frankly, pushing this thought further, if I'm sitting down somewhere for
> an hour or so (as I was yesterday), mightn't I also be able to pull out
> a BT keyboard and use it to reply to mail? Use it to add to my notes?
> Use it to type in search strings for Safari that voice dictation didn't
> quite get right?
> 
> Sop, I'm curious. Is it possible to do that much? What are the practical
> limits here?
> 
> Best,
> Janina
> 
> Bradford Snyder writes:
>> I agree with Donna.
>> I have the Apple Watch Ultimate, which has cellular, but I have not enabled 
>> cellular service because it isn???t worth $10 per month for something I???m 
>> not going to use.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 3, 2024, at 23:54, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi ET,
>> 
>> I agree with everything that others have said.  The one thing I would add is 
>> that personally, I don???t really like taking phone calls on my watch.  This 
>> is, of course, subjective, but I mention it because if I remember correctly, 
>> you have hearing loss, and the reason I don???t like using the watch for 
>> phone calls, is that the sound isn???t very good.  It might be something 
>> that wouldn???t be useful for you, and that that case, the option of using 
>> your watch without your phone would be less wortwhile.  I don???t carry my 
>> phone with me all the time.  When I???m at home I set it down and leave it 
>> in one place, and it still syncs with the watch.  As you can probably tell, 
>> personally, I don???t think the cellular version is worth the extra money.
>> Best,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Jun 3, 2024, at 11:52 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> Looking at the options that are available. Do I want cellular? About the 
>>> watch bands, anything special about those or is the default band good 
>>> enough. Appreciate the feedback.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> "Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
>>> -Helen Keller
>>> My e-Mail:
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
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RE: Apple Health App

[Jessica Barr]

That's right, I had forgotten about that. I have the Series 8, and mine still 
has the oxygen sensor. It isn't something I typically use, but I just tried it 
to see if it was still available to me and how it worked. I purchased my Apple 
Watch long before that lawsuit, though. New Apple Watches will be coming in a 
few months. It will be interesting to hear what new features and capabilities 
they will have.

- Original Message -
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
Date: Thursday, May 30, 2024 01:31 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple Health App

Hi ET,
I have the series 9.  But one thing to know is that Apple got sued for a patent 
violation with the Oxygen sensor.  So The watch 9 no longer comes with that 
capability.  With that in mind, depending on your needs of course, you might 
want to consider the less expensive series 8.  It also contains the emergency 
alert technology and the fall detection.
Cheers,
Donna

> On May 30, 2024, at 7:00 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Donna and others,
>   Appreciate the input. This is quite interesting, the potential benefits. I 
> took a quick look and see that the series 9 starts at about $400 and the 
> Ultra 2 at about $700 something. I think the series 9 warrants a further 
> look. Which model do you have? Thanks much.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> "Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
> -Helen Keller
> My e-Mail:
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 5/29/2024 9:56 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Hi ET,
>> Not Jonathan, but the watch has:
>> Emergency alerts
>> Fall detection
>> Heart monitoring, including EKG
>> I know from personal experience that the emergency feature on the watch 
>> works quite well.  A year and a half ago, when I was in a car accident, my 
>> watch called 911, and also all of my emergency contacts.
>> HTH,
>> Donna
>>> On May 30, 2024, at 12:14 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jonathan,
>>>   In brief, how would an Apple watch benefit me? Thanks much.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> "Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
>>> -Helen Keller
>>> My e-Mail:
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 5/29/2024 1:22 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote:
 Apple Watch.
 Sent from my iPhone
> On May 29, 2024, at 1:05 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
>   I am considering some kind of medical device that can interface with 
> the health app. Can't think off hand the names of these devices but 
> something that can be useful in the event I have a medical emergency. 
> Thanks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> "Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
> -Helen Keller
> My e-Mail:
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
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> The following information is 

RE: Apple Health App

[Jessica Barr]

I'm not sure about heart attacks or stroke, but it will notify you if your 
resting heart rate goes above 120 BPM, you can do an ECG, and depending on 
which Apple Watch you have you could check your blood oxygen level. You can 
also use it to track your sleep. It isn't always accurate, but it should get 
better at it over time.

- Original Message -
From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
Date: Thursday, May 30, 2024 07:33 AM
To: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Apple Health App

I understand the watch will dial 911 about 30 seconds after a fall
unless you interrupt that process. It will advise emergency services
that you have fallen and advise your location.
I don't know whether there's similar for heart attacks, stroke, etc.
Would be interesting to learn.
The medical support people I've talked with recently see the watch as a
worthy substitute for the older medic alert systems people would wear
around the neck. I find all this quite persuasive personally.
Janina
'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries writes:
> Hi ET,
> 
> Not Jonathan, but the watch has:
> Emergency alerts
> Fall detection
> Heart monitoring, including EKG
> 
> 
> I know from personal experience that the emergency feature on the watch works 
> quite well.  A year and a half ago, when I was in a car accident, my watch 
> called 911, and also all of my emergency contacts.
> HTH,
> Donna
> 
> > On May 30, 2024, at 12:14 AM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Jonathan,
> >   In brief, how would an Apple watch benefit me? Thanks much.
> > 
> > From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> > "Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
> > -Helen Keller
> > My e-Mail:
> > ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> > 
> > On 5/29/2024 1:22 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote:
> >> Apple Watch.
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>> On May 29, 2024, at 1:05???PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> >>>  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> ???Hi all,
> >>>   I am considering some kind of medical device that can interface with 
> >>> the health app. Can't think off hand the names of these devices but 
> >>> something that can be useful in the event I have a medical emergency. 
> >>> Thanks.
> >>> 
> >>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> >>> "Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
> >>> -Helen Keller
> >>> My e-Mail:
> >>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> >>> 
> >>> --
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> >>> Visionaries list.
> >>> 
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> > 
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> The archives for this list can be 

Re: HTML question.

[Jessica Moss]

I am not unfortunately.  Everything I get back to test has already gone through 
our QA department and had the worst of what was wrong with it to begin with 
already fixed, and I just go over it in the end to make sure everything works 
the way it's supposed to.  So it’s tricky to figure out sometimes if the 
buttons that don’t expand when I need them to are an issue with the site 
itself, or more to due with the template we’re using in Squarespace itself, 
that there’s little we can do about resolving.
  We’ve had the same issue regarding speed bumps that pop up a x sign letting 
you know you’re about to leave the site you’re on and go to a third-party site 
that I’ve finally just chalked up to Safari not knowing how to handle them 
properly, since I have to constantly restart Voiceover to get them to activate, 
then they will for a while, then they’ll just sit there and do nothing.
  However, when testing these links in Chrome, they seem to behave themselves 
just fine.

> On May 25, 2024, at 3:59 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:
> 
> OK, now I understand better where you’re coming from. I’ve always wondered 
> about the accessibility of Square space and its equivalence. That is a great 
> asset that you’re improving it. I guess the next question is are you at all 
> familiar with the developer tool within the browser that you primarily use be 
> that safari or Chrome. 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 25, 2024, at 3:36 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Got it!
>> 
>> So, I gather you're more or less up to speed on markup errors that you
>> need to know about to do your auditing job. Yes?
>> 
>> Now you're learning HTML in an ostensibly more structured way, i.e.
>> using online courses from W3Schools. Can you say why? Do you have a
>> specific goal for that knowledge and skillset?
>> 
>> I don't know about you, but I've always thrived better in in person
>> classes where I can get guidance and support from a teacher willing to
>> understand the strengths and challenges I bring into class. Very likely
>> these are not exactly what my classmates bring to the party. Not all
>> teachers are good at that, just as sighted colleagues aren't always good
>> at understanding the nonvisual framwork from which you operate. However,
>> the ones that do can be enormously helpful in guiding one into what to
>> study hard and what you can safely ignore for now. A self-guided on line
>> curriculum isn't going to give you that unless it happens to be an
>> online course built for blind users, such as come from Hadley.
>> 
>> To take it back to your first post, you do need to understand and deal
>> with div and class; but, you should be clear which is HTML and which is
>> CSS. Because, if you don't, you're just ticking off boxes based on a
>> partial understanding. I've never found that kind of partial
>> understanding all that useful, personally.
>> 
>> Janina
>> 
>> Jessica Moss writes:
>>> Ok, so in a nutshell, I audit web sites I???ve been sent either through 
>>> squarespace that haven???t gone live yet, or am sent ones that already have 
>>> to recheck to make sure links are clickable via screenreader/keyboard, 
>>> links/elements have proper alt text, and accordion style buttons expand and 
>>> collapse when they???re supposed to, and that Voiceover reads out when they 
>>> do just that.  If this isn???t happening, I audit my findings in a 
>>> spreadsheet in excel and send my findings back.  So there???s been a goal 
>>> in place for me for years for me to learn HTML and I???ve been simply 
>>> trying to navigate my way through w3schools, but since the main things 
>>> I???d be needing to focus on appear to be 1 of 3 things, adding proper alt 
>>> text to links that just say dreaded things like ???click here,??? ???learn 
>>> more??? etc., adding alt text to a completely blank Iframe, that most 
>>> sighted people don???t think needs alt text, because to them it just looks 
>>> like a window they can see through to find what???s imbedded into the site, 
>>> and last but not least, figuring out what???s not making an expandable 
>>> button expand the way it needs to be, or if it is, why it???s not reading 
>>> out why it???s expanded.
>>> So with all that being said, I think I just need a better understanding of 
>>> what lessons I can skip over for now in order to find what I need to work 
>>> with in order to learn to make that happen.
>>> 
>>>>> On May 25, 2024, at 2:45???PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>&

Re: HTML question.

[Jessica Moss]

Ok, so in a nutshell, I audit web sites I’ve been sent either through 
squarespace that haven’t gone live yet, or am sent ones that already have to 
recheck to make sure links are clickable via screenreader/keyboard, 
links/elements have proper alt text, and accordion style buttons expand and 
collapse when they’re supposed to, and that Voiceover reads out when they do 
just that.  If this isn’t happening, I audit my findings in a spreadsheet in 
excel and send my findings back.  So there’s been a goal in place for me for 
years for me to learn HTML and I’ve been simply trying to navigate my way 
through w3schools, but since the main things I’d be needing to focus on appear 
to be 1 of 3 things, adding proper alt text to links that just say dreaded 
things like “click here,” “learn more” etc., adding alt text to a completely 
blank Iframe, that most sighted people don’t think needs alt text, because to 
them it just looks like a window they can see through to find what’s imbedded 
into the site, and last but not least, figuring out what’s not making an 
expandable button expand the way it needs to be, or if it is, why it’s not 
reading out why it’s expanded.
  So with all that being said, I think I just need a better understanding of 
what lessons I can skip over for now in order to find what I need to work with 
in order to learn to make that happen.

> On May 25, 2024, at 2:45 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jessica:
> 
> This will be a somewhat longer response to your question and I hope it's
> helpful. Apologies in advance if it's not as comprehensive as I would
> like to make it, i.e. with relevant links for good additional info,
> etc., etc.
> 
> My first comment is an observation about getting help from sighted
> colleagues. Frankly, they often don't know how to talk to us blind
> folks. That's true in digital environs just as it is in physical
> environs.
> 
> Pointing this out takes me to my first response to you about certain
> HTML elements, specifically the div element. It's just a container. You
> can deploy it to contain anything you want, actually. The sighted world
> loves it for the look and feel opportunities it provides.
> 
> Other HTML elements are clearly structural, e.g. the list elements you
> were pointed to in this thread. Yes, we blind folks tend to love the
> more structural elements simply because we benefit from clearly
> organized and well marked up content. I suppose most of us wish we saw
> that more often, but I digress.
> 
> The take-away so far is the notion of containers. The div element isn't
> the only one, but it's widely used, so understanding that it's just a
> bucket is important, imo.
> 
> Next I want to share an architectural overview with you. In my
> understanding there are three important code streams in most web content
> as follows:
> 
> 1.)   HTML
> 
> This is the structural content organizing code defined by the WHAT
> Working Group (and the World Wide Web Consortium).  The "source of
> truth" for HTML is this publication from 10 years ago:
> 
> https://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-html5-20141028/
> 
> 
> More useful to you is the Mozilla Developer Network documentation of
> HTML 5 and how to use the various HTML 5 elements. Over the years I've
> found that power HTML developers refer to the Mozilla Developer Network
> documentation pages when discussing pros and cons of particular HTML
> codeing approaches. The MDN is here:
> 
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/
> 
> 
> There's lots of great help there including "Getting Started" guidance.
> There's also a Wikipedia page for MDN you might want to visit to
> understand the HTML world we now live in a bit better by way of
> acquiring a contextual understanding of the coding work you've set out
> to learn.
> 
> Note that MDN also provides guidance on the following architectural
> coding streams, so it really is a great one-stop source of info for you!
> 
> 2.)   CSS
> 
> In the classical understanding of web content organization, and still
> the very much preferred approach for well developed web content,
> Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) is the code layer responsible for the look
> and feel of web content. CSS remains actively in development. As a blind
> coder you will at least want to understand the basics of CSS, but it's
> nuances are likely something you'll leave to sighted colleagues.
> 
> The "source of truth" for CSS is a large corpus of specifications from
> the W3C's CSS Working Group whose home page is here:
> 
> https://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/specs.en.html
> 
> 
> And, a more user-friendly introduction to the CSS world is provided here:
> 
> https://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Overview.en.html
> 
> On a person

Re: HTML question.

[Jessica Moss]

You’re right on the money with those, and I can see where navigating this with 
a touch screen only would be a huge pain in the butt.

> On May 25, 2024, at 12:38 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:
> 
> So you have been using a few element:
> ..  ul unordered list
> 2 ol ordered list 
> 3. li list item
> 
> You might have used html, title, head, and  body elements.  
> I’d love to explain more, but I’m getting very frustrated. Trying to use the 
> touch keypad on my iPhone and I don’t have a regular computer with me until 
> after the holiday is over.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhon
> 
>> On May 24, 2024, at 4:35 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> That would be wonderful.  Unfortunately what you’re describing at this 
>> point is making no sense to me, and as of now, I’ve only gotten so far as 
>> being able to create ordered/unordered lists.
>> 
>>> On May 24, 2024, at 4:26 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jessica
>>> Do you understand what an html element is? Div are only one type of element 
>>> and not a very useful one at that.
>>> A Div is a generic block element.
>>> 
>>> Class is one attribute of all elements  for css and JavaScript the words of 
>>> the class attributes are often used as selectors  for example in bootstrap 
>>> system the class sr_only is used for text that is invisible to sighted 
>>> users but is read by screen readers. Elements in general, have some sort of 
>>> meeting, but the class attribute only has meeting in a specific system. We 
>>> can discuss more after the holiday if you would like.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On May 24, 2024, at 12:47 PM, Jessica Moss  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Sure, that actually would be greatly appreciated.
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 24, 2024, at 11:48 AM, Karen Lewellen  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I understand..actually I do not use Linux directly either.  No screen 
>>>>> reader that works with my needs.
>>>>> Still,  my hope was thinking of it like a file might help.
>>>>> Would you mind if I asked a few  people?
>>>>> HTML is such an important foundation for inclusive web creation, and 
>>>>> clearly you are dedicated to become the best professional you can.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, 24 May 2024, Jessica Moss wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> While I completely get designing a site in html, I unfortunately don’t 
>>>>>> know anything about using Linux.  We weren’t taught that during the time 
>>>>>> I was in school, and I literally went straight from using an Apple 2 
>>>>>> machine to learning Windows.  Then the main experience I got learning 
>>>>>> the Mac, actually came from this list, along with what used to be 
>>>>>> Blindcooltech’s podcasts.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On May 24, 2024, at 11:16 AM, Karen Lewellen  
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Jessica,
>>>>>>> speaking personally?
>>>>>>> This may be a question of tool, and  how you consider the process.
>>>>>>> Again speaking personally, I am not sure, at least for me, that the 
>>>>>>> folder image  is the best so to speak.
>>>>>>> My own personal website,  No I am not blowing my own horn smiles,
>>>>>>> www.karenlewellen.com
>>>>>>> Was done in html.
>>>>>>> I insisted on this so I could, as I often need to, update things on my 
>>>>>>> own.
>>>>>>> Pull up a page in a editor and so forth..but that is me.
>>>>>>> It may be helpful, if you are interested, to connect with Linux users  
>>>>>>> who also live with sight loss.
>>>>>>> Some of them  are more used to this kind of editing with their ears, 
>>>>>>> and are  more likely to have a solid tool to suggest.
>>>>>>> Does that resonate?
>>>>>>> Karen
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Fri, 24 May 2024, Jessica Moss wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I’m attempting to proceed further in learning HTML, and have been 
>>>>>>>> having one of my coworkers help when he’s had some spare time.  

Re: HTML question.

[Jessica Moss]

That would be wonderful.  Unfortunately what you’re describing at this point is 
making no sense to me, and as of now, I’ve only gotten so far as being able to 
create ordered/unordered lists.

> On May 24, 2024, at 4:26 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:
> 
> Jessica 
> Do you understand what an html element is? Div are only one type of element 
> and not a very useful one at that. 
> A Div is a generic block element. 
> 
> Class is one attribute of all elements  for css and JavaScript the words of 
> the class attributes are often used as selectors  for example in bootstrap 
> system the class sr_only is used for text that is invisible to sighted users 
> but is read by screen readers. Elements in general, have some sort of 
> meeting, but the class attribute only has meeting in a specific system. We 
> can discuss more after the holiday if you would like.
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 24, 2024, at 12:47 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> Sure, that actually would be greatly appreciated.
>> 
>>> On May 24, 2024, at 11:48 AM, Karen Lewellen  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I understand..actually I do not use Linux directly either.  No screen 
>>> reader that works with my needs.
>>> Still,  my hope was thinking of it like a file might help.
>>> Would you mind if I asked a few  people?
>>> HTML is such an important foundation for inclusive web creation, and 
>>> clearly you are dedicated to become the best professional you can.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Fri, 24 May 2024, Jessica Moss wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> While I completely get designing a site in html, I unfortunately don’t 
>>>> know anything about using Linux.  We weren’t taught that during the time I 
>>>> was in school, and I literally went straight from using an Apple 2 machine 
>>>> to learning Windows.  Then the main experience I got learning the Mac, 
>>>> actually came from this list, along with what used to be Blindcooltech’s 
>>>> podcasts.
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 24, 2024, at 11:16 AM, Karen Lewellen  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Jessica,
>>>>> speaking personally?
>>>>> This may be a question of tool, and  how you consider the process.
>>>>> Again speaking personally, I am not sure, at least for me, that the 
>>>>> folder image  is the best so to speak.
>>>>> My own personal website,  No I am not blowing my own horn smiles,
>>>>> www.karenlewellen.com
>>>>> Was done in html.
>>>>> I insisted on this so I could, as I often need to, update things on my 
>>>>> own.
>>>>> Pull up a page in a editor and so forth..but that is me.
>>>>> It may be helpful, if you are interested, to connect with Linux users  
>>>>> who also live with sight loss.
>>>>> Some of them  are more used to this kind of editing with their ears, and 
>>>>> are  more likely to have a solid tool to suggest.
>>>>> Does that resonate?
>>>>> Karen
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, 24 May 2024, Jessica Moss wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I’m attempting to proceed further in learning HTML, and have been having 
>>>>>> one of my coworkers help when he’s had some spare time.  However, with 
>>>>>> him having completely usable vision, and trying to explain to me how 
>>>>>> certain portions of this work, divs and classes being a big thing, 
>>>>>> that’s where this becomes interesting, and makes me wonder how often 
>>>>>> will I use these, and should I just leave styling type elements such as 
>>>>>> these to someone who has more knowledge and can actually see where they 
>>>>>> need to go.
>>>>>> He’s told me that it’s like putting items into a folder when dealing 
>>>>>> with html divs/classes, but that’s as far as I’ve gotten, considering 
>>>>>> the fact that while I understand the concept of having a physical 
>>>>>> folder, where you’d have deviders separating your homework assignments 
>>>>>> from your tests and quizzes for example, how would I style an existing 
>>>>>> template I’ve already started building in that same manner, without 
>>>>>> being able to see it, and know that I’ve done it correctly?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> The follow

Re: HTML question.

[Jessica Moss]

Sure, that actually would be greatly appreciated.

> On May 24, 2024, at 11:48 AM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> I understand..actually I do not use Linux directly either.  No screen reader 
> that works with my needs.
> Still,  my hope was thinking of it like a file might help.
> Would you mind if I asked a few  people?
> HTML is such an important foundation for inclusive web creation, and clearly 
> you are dedicated to become the best professional you can.
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 24 May 2024, Jessica Moss wrote:
> 
>> While I completely get designing a site in html, I unfortunately don’t know 
>> anything about using Linux.  We weren’t taught that during the time I was in 
>> school, and I literally went straight from using an Apple 2 machine to 
>> learning Windows.  Then the main experience I got learning the Mac, actually 
>> came from this list, along with what used to be Blindcooltech’s podcasts.
>> 
>>> On May 24, 2024, at 11:16 AM, Karen Lewellen  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Jessica,
>>> speaking personally?
>>> This may be a question of tool, and  how you consider the process.
>>> Again speaking personally, I am not sure, at least for me, that the folder 
>>> image  is the best so to speak.
>>> My own personal website,  No I am not blowing my own horn smiles,
>>> www.karenlewellen.com
>>> Was done in html.
>>> I insisted on this so I could, as I often need to, update things on my own.
>>> Pull up a page in a editor and so forth..but that is me.
>>> It may be helpful, if you are interested, to connect with Linux users  who 
>>> also live with sight loss.
>>> Some of them  are more used to this kind of editing with their ears, and 
>>> are  more likely to have a solid tool to suggest.
>>> Does that resonate?
>>> Karen
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, 24 May 2024, Jessica Moss wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I’m attempting to proceed further in learning HTML, and have been having 
>>>> one of my coworkers help when he’s had some spare time.  However, with him 
>>>> having completely usable vision, and trying to explain to me how certain 
>>>> portions of this work, divs and classes being a big thing, that’s where 
>>>> this becomes interesting, and makes me wonder how often will I use these, 
>>>> and should I just leave styling type elements such as these to someone who 
>>>> has more knowledge and can actually see where they need to go.
>>>> He’s told me that it’s like putting items into a folder when dealing with 
>>>> html divs/classes, but that’s as far as I’ve gotten, considering the fact 
>>>> that while I understand the concept of having a physical folder, where 
>>>> you’d have deviders separating your homework assignments from your tests 
>>>> and quizzes for example, how would I style an existing template I’ve 
>>>> already started building in that same manner, without being able to see 
>>>> it, and know that I’ve done it correctly?
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
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>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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>> 
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moder

Re: HTML question.

[Jessica Moss]

While I completely get designing a site in html, I unfortunately don’t know 
anything about using Linux.  We weren’t taught that during the time I was in 
school, and I literally went straight from using an Apple 2 machine to learning 
Windows.  Then the main experience I got learning the Mac, actually came from 
this list, along with what used to be Blindcooltech’s podcasts.

> On May 24, 2024, at 11:16 AM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jessica,
> speaking personally?
> This may be a question of tool, and  how you consider the process.
> Again speaking personally, I am not sure, at least for me, that the folder 
> image  is the best so to speak.
> My own personal website,  No I am not blowing my own horn smiles,
> www.karenlewellen.com
> Was done in html.
> I insisted on this so I could, as I often need to, update things on my own.
> Pull up a page in a editor and so forth..but that is me.
> It may be helpful, if you are interested, to connect with Linux users  who 
> also live with sight loss.
> Some of them  are more used to this kind of editing with their ears, and are  
> more likely to have a solid tool to suggest.
> Does that resonate?
> Karen
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 24 May 2024, Jessica Moss wrote:
> 
>> I’m attempting to proceed further in learning HTML, and have been having one 
>> of my coworkers help when he’s had some spare time.  However, with him 
>> having completely usable vision, and trying to explain to me how certain 
>> portions of this work, divs and classes being a big thing, that’s where this 
>> becomes interesting, and makes me wonder how often will I use these, and 
>> should I just leave styling type elements such as these to someone who has 
>> more knowledge and can actually see where they need to go.
>> He’s told me that it’s like putting items into a folder when dealing with 
>> html divs/classes, but that’s as far as I’ve gotten, considering the fact 
>> that while I understand the concept of having a physical folder, where you’d 
>> have deviders separating your homework assignments from your tests and 
>> quizzes for example, how would I style an existing template I’ve already 
>> started building in that same manner, without being able to see it, and know 
>> that I’ve done it correctly?
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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HTML question.

[Jessica Moss]

I’m attempting to proceed further in learning HTML, and have been having one of 
my coworkers help when he’s had some spare time.  However, with him having 
completely usable vision, and trying to explain to me how certain portions of 
this work, divs and classes being a big thing, that’s where this becomes 
interesting, and makes me wonder how often will I use these, and should I just 
leave styling type elements such as these to someone who has more knowledge and 
can actually see where they need to go.
  He’s told me that it’s like putting items into a folder when dealing with 
html divs/classes, but that’s as far as I’ve gotten, considering the fact that 
while I understand the concept of having a physical folder, where you’d have 
deviders separating your homework assignments from your tests and quizzes for 
example, how would I style an existing template I’ve already started building 
in that same manner, without being able to see it, and know that I’ve done it 
correctly?

-- 
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list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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Re: I've paired my game control with my Mac, but nothing is picking it up.

[Jessica Moss]

I just attempt to follow the game’s soundscape as best I can, but don’t usually 
get vary far with it.  That’s what I’ve done with any video game I’ve ever 
attempted to play even when I was a kid, since I always found the sounds they 
made fascinating, and wanted to see what I could do with them, and most people 
around me were at least willing to let me try.

> On Apr 30, 2024, at 6:56 PM, Rebecca Sabo  wrote:
> 
> Hi ,
> I was wondering how do you play with game controllers when you are blind?
> Becky 
> 
>> On Apr 11, 2024, at 1:00 PM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
>> 
>> Just to add my .02 here, I’ve reliably used Dual Sense (PS5) and XBox 1 and 
>> Series X / S controllers wirelessly with Mac.
>> 
>> Occasionally the connection process via bluetooth can be a bit fiddly but 
>> once connected, the Mac remembers the controllers and usually connects again 
>> without a hassle.
>> 
>> Jessica, I’ve not used any third-party controllers so I can’t specifically 
>> comment on that, however, I’d suggest getting a PS5 (dual sense) controller 
>> or XBox controller specifically for series X or S if you can.
>> 
>> Joseph, regarding the issues with updating drivers, have you tried updating 
>> your XBox controller directly through a console or via the XBox app on 
>> Windows?
>> 
>> Sorry I can’t be of more help to either of you. Best of luck though and 
>> please do write back to the list with any progress you make on these issues. 
>> This may help others as well.
>> 
>> Good luck and have a great day! :)
>> 
>> Cheers!
>> 
>> Cara
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 8, 2024, at 10:52 AM, joseph hodge  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think it might be picky as the only thing I found that honestly works 
>>> reliably is a PlayStation 4 controller wired in through my USB to USB-C. 
>>> Everything else tends to just not ever really map correctly or get 
>>> recognized. Especially running Bluetooth. When using my Xbox controller And 
>>> trying to Bluetooth it to the Mac it tells me I need to update some thing 
>>> but I can never quite figure out what driver needs to be updated. As when I 
>>> go to Microsoft and find the driver, I’m already up-to-date. 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 8, 2024, at 10:34 AM, Jessica Moss  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> So I think I’ve finally found a wireless gaming controller that stated on 
>>>> Amazon, would work on my Mac, and also came with a clip so you could 
>>>> somehow play games on your iPhone.  The Brand is something I’ve never 
>>>> heard of “Aghi,) but when pairing it with my Mac, it picks it up as Xbox 
>>>> 1.  So I thought all was good to go until I tried running it on multiple 
>>>> emulators, and Retroarch now completely changes its menu structure, now 
>>>> only showing me what cores I have installed, and eventually just stops 
>>>> talking altogether, and eventually seems to freeze, and in Genesis+, I’m 
>>>> just not seeing an option under input to add/remap the control itself, 
>>>> only a general remapping option, which I accidentally remap buttons I 
>>>> don’t want to simply by trying to scroll through the table itself.  Am I 
>>>> missing a step here, or is the Mac just generally fussy about what 
>>>> controls it will and won’t play nice with?
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>> 
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>>> ---
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>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvi

I've paired my game control with my Mac, but nothing is picking it up.

[Jessica Moss]

So I think I’ve finally found a wireless gaming controller that stated on 
Amazon, would work on my Mac, and also came with a clip so you could somehow 
play games on your iPhone.  The Brand is something I’ve never heard of “Aghi,) 
but when pairing it with my Mac, it picks it up as Xbox 1.  So I thought all 
was good to go until I tried running it on multiple emulators, and Retroarch 
now completely changes its menu structure, now only showing me what cores I 
have installed, and eventually just stops talking altogether, and eventually 
seems to freeze, and in Genesis+, I’m just not seeing an option under input to 
add/remap the control itself, only a general remapping option, which I 
accidentally remap buttons I don’t want to simply by trying to scroll through 
the table itself.  Am I missing a step here, or is the Mac just generally fussy 
about what controls it will and won’t play nice with?

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RE: Anyone have experience with the Orbit reader?

[Jessica Barr]

I didn't know the 40-cell Brailliant had panning buttons at either end of the 
display in addition to the thumb keys. I have the 20-cell unit, which does not 
have those, but I have heard that the 40-cell Brailliant has more buttons than 
the one I have.

- Original Message -
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
Date: Sunday, March 24, 2024 09:30 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with the Orbit reader?

Yeah.  So far it's only in my thumbs, so if the display has panning buttons on 
either end of the braille cells, I'm fine.  The Brailliant does have that, but 
the Mantis does not.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Mar 23, 2024, at 10:04 PM, Jessica Barr  wrote:
> 
> Yes, I would rather pay more for a device that will work reliably for at 
> least a few years before having to be sent in than have a cheap display that 
> has to be sent in potentially several times a year for repairs. Personally, I 
> love the thumb keys on Humanware displays, but you're not the first person 
> who has told me that they're very difficult to use for people who have 
> arthritis in their hands.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> Date: Saturday, March 23, 2024 02:20 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with the Orbit reader?
> 
> Hi Jessica,
> Wow!  I'm sorry to hear that you had so many problems with the device, all 
> the more since you had the opportunity to test several different units.  A 
> Braille display whose cells don't last is definitely no deal, no matter how 
> great the price tag is.  Glad you have your BrailleSense 6, so at least you 
> weren't completely reliant on the Orbit Reader.  Thanks for telling me about 
> your experience.  I have to say that has me leaning away from buying it.
> Best,
> Donna
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2024, at 11:34 AM, Jessica Barr  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna,
>> I tested several Orbit Readers for my braille and talking book library, and 
>> they all broke down within a few months, if not sooner. I loved the braille 
>> cells when they were all in good working order, so I bought an Orbit Reader 
>> 20 Plus shortly after it was released, hoping that the longevity of the 
>> braille cells had improved. After eight or nine months, two of the cells had 
>> stopped working correctly. I got the BrailleSense 6 around the same time, so 
>> the Orbit just sat unused on a shelf for a while before I got it repaired. 
>> After that I donated it to an organization I'm in because I wanted to get 
>> rid of it but didn't feel as though I should ask for money for a product I 
>> had already had such bad luck with. I know there are people who have had 
>> good luck with the Orbit Reader, but I would not recommend it to anyone.
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> Date: Saturday, March 23, 2024 09:08 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Anyone have experience with the Orbit reader?
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> I am still on a quest to find a braille display with a qwerty keyboard, and 
>> I just saw that Orbit is about to release a forty cell display with a qwerty 
>> keyboard.  I'd love to hear about people's experience with the Orbit reader. 
>>  I realize it won't be the new display, but I do remember that at least 
>> early on, people had a lot of negative things to say about the Orbit reader. 
>>  Is that still the case?  In the blurb I read, it said it's compatible with 
>> Voiceover.  Has anyone used an Orbit with either a Mac or an iPhone?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
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>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>> 
>

RE: Anyone have experience with the Orbit reader?

[Jessica Barr]

Yes, I would rather pay more for a device that will work reliably for at least 
a few years before having to be sent in than have a cheap display that has to 
be sent in potentially several times a year for repairs. Personally, I love the 
thumb keys on Humanware displays, but you're not the first person who has told 
me that they're very difficult to use for people who have arthritis in their 
hands.

- Original Message -
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
Date: Saturday, March 23, 2024 02:20 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Anyone have experience with the Orbit reader?

Hi Jessica,
Wow!  I'm sorry to hear that you had so many problems with the device, all the 
more since you had the opportunity to test several different units.  A Braille 
display whose cells don't last is definitely no deal, no matter how great the 
price tag is.  Glad you have your BrailleSense 6, so at least you weren't 
completely reliant on the Orbit Reader.  Thanks for telling me about your 
experience.  I have to say that has me leaning away from buying it.
Best,
Donna

> On Mar 23, 2024, at 11:34 AM, Jessica Barr  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> I tested several Orbit Readers for my braille and talking book library, and 
> they all broke down within a few months, if not sooner. I loved the braille 
> cells when they were all in good working order, so I bought an Orbit Reader 
> 20 Plus shortly after it was released, hoping that the longevity of the 
> braille cells had improved. After eight or nine months, two of the cells had 
> stopped working correctly. I got the BrailleSense 6 around the same time, so 
> the Orbit just sat unused on a shelf for a while before I got it repaired. 
> After that I donated it to an organization I'm in because I wanted to get rid 
> of it but didn't feel as though I should ask for money for a product I had 
> already had such bad luck with. I know there are people who have had good 
> luck with the Orbit Reader, but I would not recommend it to anyone.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
> Date: Saturday, March 23, 2024 09:08 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Anyone have experience with the Orbit reader?
> 
> Hi all,
> I am still on a quest to find a braille display with a qwerty keyboard, and I 
> just saw that Orbit is about to release a forty cell display with a qwerty 
> keyboard.  I'd love to hear about people's experience with the Orbit reader.  
> I realize it won't be the new display, but I do remember that at least early 
> on, people had a lot of negative things to say about the Orbit reader.  Is 
> that still the case?  In the blurb I read, it said it's compatible with 
> Voiceover.  Has anyone used an Orbit with either a Mac or an iPhone?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
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RE: Anyone have experience with the Orbit reader?

[Jessica Barr]

Hi Donna,
I tested several Orbit Readers for my braille and talking book library, and 
they all broke down within a few months, if not sooner. I loved the braille 
cells when they were all in good working order, so I bought an Orbit Reader 20 
Plus shortly after it was released, hoping that the longevity of the braille 
cells had improved. After eight or nine months, two of the cells had stopped 
working correctly. I got the BrailleSense 6 around the same time, so the Orbit 
just sat unused on a shelf for a while before I got it repaired. After that I 
donated it to an organization I'm in because I wanted to get rid of it but 
didn't feel as though I should ask for money for a product I had already had 
such bad luck with. I know there are people who have had good luck with the 
Orbit Reader, but I would not recommend it to anyone.

- Original Message -
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
Date: Saturday, March 23, 2024 09:08 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Anyone have experience with the Orbit reader?

Hi all,
I am still on a quest to find a braille display with a qwerty keyboard, and I 
just saw that Orbit is about to release a forty cell display with a qwerty 
keyboard.  I'd love to hear about people's experience with the Orbit reader.  I 
realize it won't be the new display, but I do remember that at least early on, 
people had a lot of negative things to say about the Orbit reader.  Is that 
still the case?  In the blurb I read, it said it's compatible with Voiceover.  
Has anyone used an Orbit with either a Mac or an iPhone?
Cheers,
Donna
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Re: Running wineskin on an m1 Mac.

[Jessica Moss]

Sadly, it’s looking like you’re absolutely right.  I’ve just read through 
several other posts I’ve found on there regarding this, and it looks like Wine 
doesn’t seem to play nice with anything needing to utilize the Sapi 5 voices, 
which is what I was going to be needing.  I found a version of Mario Brothers 
on audiogames.net that someone created years ago, that I used to play a while 
back when I still had my Windows Vista Machine, which I no longer have, and was 
hoping to go back and download the Sonic the Hedgehogg game he created as well, 
but looks like that will have to wait a while.

> On Mar 11, 2024, at 12:26 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> It was last updated 2015 so it might work but I guess its better to buy an 
> extra computer.
> Bless.
> /A
> 
>> 11 mars 2024 kl. 16:31 skrev Jessica Moss :
>> 
>> I actually didn’t know you could run this app to do things like play 
>> windows-based audio games on your Mac until I stumbled across a 10-year old 
>> post on AppleVis.com <http://applevis.com/> last night when I was doing a 
>> search for something else.  However, this post was also riddled with 
>> complaints of people encountering various error messages when trying to get 
>> games to load, and the process to get it up and running sounds like a 
>> complicated mess.
>>   Has anyone successfully managed to get this up and running on an M1 Mac, 
>> and if so, is the process any less cumbersome, or would I be better off 
>> buying a secondary laptop, with all the hoops you seem to have to jump 
>> through?
>> 
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Running wineskin on an m1 Mac.

[Jessica Moss]

I actually didn’t know you could run this app to do things like play 
windows-based audio games on your Mac until I stumbled across a 10-year old 
post on AppleVis.com  last night when I was doing a 
search for something else.  However, this post was also riddled with complaints 
of people encountering various error messages when trying to get games to load, 
and the process to get it up and running sounds like a complicated mess.
  Has anyone successfully managed to get this up and running on an M1 Mac, and 
if so, is the process any less cumbersome, or would I be better off buying a 
secondary laptop, with all the hoops you seem to have to jump through?

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RE: Anyone else using Apple Pay or an Apple Card?

[Jessica Barr]

Oh, that makes sense. I haven't enabled that feature yet because Face ID isn't 
always reliable for me.

- Original Message -
From: Brad Snyder 
Date: Thursday, March 07, 2024 10:16 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Anyone else using Apple Pay or an Apple Card?

This is true, unless you have enabled the new Stolen Device Protection feature.
When Stolen Device Protection is enabled, then passcode bypass is disabled, and 
only biometric authorization is allowed. 
- Brad -

On Mar 7, 2024, at 09:08, Jessica Barr  wrote:
You can also authenticate using your passcode if Touch ID or Face ID isn't 
reliable.
- Original Message -
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
Date: Thursday, March 07, 2024 09:02 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Anyone else using Apple Pay or an Apple Card?
Hi Janina,
I had to authenticate using Face ID.  I believe you have to do that every time, 
otherwise it wouldn't be secure.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Mar 7, 2024, at 7:59 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I received my Apple Card when I bought my M2 laptop. There's nothing
> different about it, other than it's slightly thicker and slightly longer
> and wider than other credit cards.
> 
> Managing your financials in Wallet works very well. I have had no
> accessibility issues with that aspect.
> 
> 
> I'm actually curious about using Apple Pay out in the wild. Is phone
> proximity to the payment terminal sufficient for the transaction? Or
> should one expect to need to authenticate, perhaps with fingerprint or
> face recognition  at some frequency? My Mini SE has fingerprint but not
> face recognition. Unfortunately, fingerprint recognition can become
> somewhat unreliable as one ages, and I resemble that remark.
> 
> Best,
> Janina
> 
> 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries writes:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Subject says it all,  I???m considering one or both of these options.  Would 
>> love to know list members experiences, both good and bad.
>> Thanks,
>> Donna
>> 
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> Janina Sajka (she/her/hers)
> Accessibility Consultant https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
> 
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures   http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> 
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> https://www.linuxfoundation.org/board-of-directors-2/
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RE: Anyone else using Apple Pay or an Apple Card?

[Jessica Barr]

You can also authenticate using your passcode if Touch ID or Face ID isn't 
reliable.

- Original Message -
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
Date: Thursday, March 07, 2024 09:02 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Anyone else using Apple Pay or an Apple Card?

Hi Janina,
I had to authenticate using Face ID.  I believe you have to do that every time, 
otherwise it wouldn't be secure.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Mar 7, 2024, at 7:59 AM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I received my Apple Card when I bought my M2 laptop. There's nothing
> different about it, other than it's slightly thicker and slightly longer
> and wider than other credit cards.
> 
> Managing your financials in Wallet works very well. I have had no
> accessibility issues with that aspect.
> 
> 
> I'm actually curious about using Apple Pay out in the wild. Is phone
> proximity to the payment terminal sufficient for the transaction? Or
> should one expect to need to authenticate, perhaps with fingerprint or
> face recognition  at some frequency? My Mini SE has fingerprint but not
> face recognition. Unfortunately, fingerprint recognition can become
> somewhat unreliable as one ages, and I resemble that remark.
> 
> Best,
> Janina
> 
> 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries writes:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Subject says it all,  I???m considering one or both of these options.  Would 
>> love to know list members experiences, both good and bad.
>> Thanks,
>> Donna
>> 
>> -- 
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> 
> -- 
> 
> Janina Sajka (she/her/hers)
> Accessibility Consultant https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
> 
> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures   http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> 
> Linux Foundation Fellow
> https://www.linuxfoundation.org/board-of-directors-2/
> 
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RE: Seeking help from someone who uses an Hable

[Jessica Barr]

The Hable One only accepts UEB, unless the newly-released update has changed 
that.

- Original Message -
From: "'E.T.' via MacVisionaries" 
Date: Friday, February 23, 2024 11:36 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Seeking help from someone who uses an Hable

What input mode is the device set to? That is key.
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
  -Helen Keller
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
On 2/23/2024 8:23 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries wrote:
> I've tried everything.  Number sign, no number sign, number sign plus upper 
> case numbers, number sign plus lower case numbers.  I can activate the field, 
> but no text ever seems to be entered.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Feb 23, 2024, at 10:19 AM, Jessica Barr  wrote:
>>
>> Interesting. Are you using the number sign before the first digit?
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>> Date: Thursday, February 22, 2024 10:06 PM
>> To: via MacVisionaries 
>> Subject: Seeking help from someone who uses an Hable
>>
>> Hi all,
>> Just got this device, and trying to decide whether it's worth keeping.
>> Can someone please tell me how to enter my passcode once I've woken up my 
>> phone?  I get to the passcode field, but nothing I do seems to allow me to 
>> enter the code.
>> TIA,
>> Donna
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RE: Seeking help from someone who uses an Hable

[Jessica Barr]

Interesting. Are you using the number sign before the first digit?

- Original Message -
From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
Date: Thursday, February 22, 2024 10:06 PM
To: via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Seeking help from someone who uses an Hable

Hi all,
Just got this device, and trying to decide whether it's worth keeping.
Can someone please tell me how to enter my passcode once I've woken up my 
phone?  I get to the passcode field, but nothing I do seems to allow me to 
enter the code.
TIA,
Donna
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RE: Any accessible games for the mac

[Jessica Barr]

There's also Brok the InvestiGator, which was nominated for a Golden Apple on 
AppleVis. I've thought about purchasing it but haven't yet.

- Original Message -
From: Jessica Moss 
Date: Monday, February 19, 2024 04:01 PM
To: 'Jim Fettgather' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Any accessible games for the mac

RSGames is a good one, especially if you're into card games, or board games.  I 
think there's another called "a blind legend, but this is a payed app, unless 
that's changed recently.  Also, if you're running an m1 Mac, fruitpot2 is a fun 
and addictive game if you're into slot machine games.
  The only messed up thing about trying to run that one on the Mac, is it's 
designed for the iPad, so unlike the iPhone version, the fruits don't read out 
as they spin, so you just have to scroll through each item when the machine 
finally stops.
> On Feb 19, 2024, at 3:49 PM, Rebecca Sabo  wrote:
> 
>   hi all,
> I was wondering if their are any good accessible games to play on the Mac?
> Becky 
> 
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Re: Any accessible games for the mac

[Jessica Moss]

RSGames is a good one, especially if you’re into card games, or board games.  I 
think there’s another called “a blind legend, but this is a payed app, unless 
that’s changed recently.  Also, if you’re running an m1 Mac, fruitpot2 is a fun 
and addictive game if you’re into slot machine games.
  The only messed up thing about trying to run that one on the Mac, is it’s 
designed for the iPad, so unlike the iPhone version, the fruits don’t read out 
as they spin, so you just have to scroll through each item when the machine 
finally stops.

> On Feb 19, 2024, at 3:49 PM, Rebecca Sabo  wrote:
> 
>   hi all,
> I was wondering if their are any good accessible games to play on the Mac?
> Becky 
> 
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RE: attaching a Zoomax e-reader to a Mac as a braille display

[Jessica Barr]

It wouldn't hurt to contact whoever is in charge of distributing the eReader 
and troubleshooting problems. My state has the Zoomax also, but I've heard 
things about it that make me hesitant to request one. Good luck.

- Original Message -
From: Lorie McCloud 
Date: Saturday, February 10, 2024 09:01 PM
To: via MacVisionaries 
Subject: attaching a Zoomax e-reader to a Mac as a braille display

I've been trying to get my Zoomax and my Mac to see each other. Once my Mac saw 
it as another keyboard and several times my Mac complained that the disc hadn't 
been ejected properly when I disconnected them but never once was a braille 
display detected in the vo utility.what might be going on here? is there 
somebody at the State library I can write to about this?
thanks.
Lorie
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RE: Mark on the Aftershock (Shock) Open Run Pro and Open Fit Bluetooth Headphones for iPhone

[Jessica Barr]

I'm glad you're enjoying both of your Shokz headsets. I've had the OpenComm 
headset for quite a while, but I haven't used them in a very long time because 
they don't seem to fit correctly. I feel like every time I move a muscle I have 
to adjust them so that they don't fall off. The OpenFit do sound interesting 
though. It's cool that you can use them with the iPhone and the Apple Watch 
simultaneously.

- Original Message -
From: "M. Taylor" 
Date: Wednesday, February 07, 2024 09:54 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Mark on the Aftershock (Shock) Open Run Pro and Open Fit Bluetooth 
Headphones for iPhone

Hello Everyone,
A couple of days ago, I purchased a pair of the Open Run Pro bone conducting
Bluetooth headsets for use with my iPhone.
I decided to buy a pair because I have a couple of friends who are using the
Open Run models and when talking to them, I cannot tell that they are using
a Bluetooth headset, the microphone quality is that good.
I think they are absolutely amazing.
What I did not discover until after purchasing is that, using the Shock app
for iOS, one can change the voice profile.  Kind of an E.Q. feature that I
absolutely love.
The cost of this model is approximately 180 USD.
In fact, I was so impressed with the Open Run Pro model that, just 2 days
later, I purchased the Open Fit model.  
With the Open Fit, you do not only have 4 preset sound profiles, from which
to choose, but you also have a full equalizer feature.
The approximate cost of the Open Fit model is 130 USD.
There are several differences between the Open Run Pro and the Open Fit
model.
1.
The Open Run Pro is bone conduction.
2.
The Open Fit, while not sitting in the ear, uses sound waves to conduct the
sound.
3.
Like Air Pods, the Open Fit can be worn on one ear at a time or on both
ears.
4.
Unlike Air Pods, both the Open Run Pro and the Open Fit can switch between
Apple Watch and iPhone seamlessly as both models can connect to, two,
devices, simultaneously.
You can purchase these models from Amazon or from Shock.com or, like me,
just go into your local Best Buy and grab a pair.
Mark

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Re: AirPods 2nd Gen question

[Jessica Moss]

I have the AirPods second gen’s as well, )not the pro’s) and have noticed that 
sometimes the widget will display the cases battery life on my phone, and 
sometimes it won’t.

> On Feb 2, 2024, at 10:25 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> The widget on the Iphone should tell you about the case too.
> It does on my Iphone 15 Pro max with iOS 17.4 beta.
> But I have the AirPods Pro 2nd gen so it may be a difference in how things 
> show up.
> /A
> 
>> 2 feb. 2024 kl. 18:09 skrev mr.robertcole via MacVisionaries 
>> :
>> 
>> Dear List,
>> I am late jumping on the AirPods  band wagon.
>> I have a question, How can I tell if the case is charged?
>> This is the case with the Lightning port.
>> My iPhone 14 battery widget says the AirPods are at 95% charged.
>> What about left ear charge or right ear charge?
>> Last Night I had trouble connecting the AirPods to my iPhone 14 for the 
>> first time.
>> Holding the case next to the phone and opening the lid brought up  the 
>> connect screen, but every time  I hit connect I get error connection failed. 
>> And in bluetooth settings, tapping on AirPods got error, pairing failed.
>> After choosing to forget device, I held the button on the case for 5 seconds 
>> and finally  got it to pair.
>> My second question is what holder do you suggest for making sure the AirPods 
>> does not fall out of the ears?
>> It is a loop that fits around the ear and holds the AirPods.
>> Thanks,
>> Rob
>> 
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Re: Seeing AI

[Jessica Moss]

I’ve noticed this same result more often than not lately, and have simply 
resorted to the short text channel as a result.  It can take more time that 
way, but I can at least get a general idea of what I’m attempting to scan that 
way.

> On Jan 14, 2024, at 4:14 PM, Lorie McCloud  wrote:
> 
> I have some trouble with that too. I think it may be because you never know 
> where the bar code might be. it helps to hold the phone a llittle farther 
> away from the thing with the bar code until it starts beeping. then you can 
> move in closer. I’ve gone to a lot of trouble with some of these things and 
> then when seeing ai finally processes it it comes back “unrecognized.” 
> 
>> On Jan 14, 2024, at 1:54 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all,
>>  When using the Product category in this app, I have trouble finding the 
>> sweet spot where the app can read the bar code. Can someone offer tips on 
>> this? Thanks.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> "Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
>> -Helen Keller
>> My e-Mail:
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
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RE: Seeing AI

[Jessica Barr]

I had so much trouble with that that I gave up on that category a long time 
ago. I sometimes have better luck identifying products using the short text 
category.

- Original Message -
From: Lorie McCloud 
Date: Sunday, January 14, 2024 04:15 PM
To: via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Seeing AI

I have some trouble with that too. I think it may be because you never know 
where the bar code might be. it helps to hold the phone a llittle farther away 
from the thing with the bar code until it starts beeping. then you can move in 
closer. I've gone to a lot of trouble with some of these things and then when 
seeing ai finally processes it it comes back "unrecognized." 
> On Jan 14, 2024, at 1:54 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
>   When using the Product category in this app, I have trouble finding the 
> sweet spot where the app can read the bar code. Can someone offer tips on 
> this? Thanks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> "Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
> -Helen Keller
> My e-Mail:
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
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RE: What is the best recording app for aM2 Mac?

[Jessica Barr]

Glad to know Just Press Record is in the Mac App Store too. I have it on my 
iPhone and Apple Watch, and I think it's well worth the price.

- Original Message -
From: Brad Snyder 
Date: Saturday, January 13, 2024 06:27 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: What is  the  best recording app for aM2 Mac?

Just press record is a great option for the Mac. Very simple to use with no set 
up. You can sync your recordings to either iCloud or dropbox. You can get it 
from the Mac App Store. It's not free, but only cost about five dollars. There 
is also a version available for iOS.
- Brad -
On Jan 13, 2024, at 15:19, Phil Halton  wrote:
Voice Memos, or even quick time video, are built-in to the OS and are good 
options for Just recording some raw audio files for later processing. I also 
also use Amadeus pro and it is a great app but there's a bit of a learning 
curve and it ain't free, though not too expensive, so you might wanna just  do 
a quick and dirty recording using voice memos or a quick time and then at your 
leisure you can edit them with Amadeus Pro. One thing about Amadeus pro is at 
least for me I found it necessary to have the tutorials by Jonathan Mosen so I 
could figure out how to work the darn thing. There's a few tricky aspects to it 
that you really  Need a tutorial for I think. Sent from my IPhone

> On Jan 13, 2024, at 8:32 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> I use Amadeus Pro, it works great.
> 
>> On Jan 12, 2024, at 4:29 PM, Maurice A. Mines  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi  I am  going  to  a fore day  similar but  I don't wish to  take  my vary 
>> good  podcast recorder. I wood like  to  record som  content for my  podcast 
>> that I am restarting. I  wood  like  to  try to  use  the  computers 
>> microphone. What  software will  work well  on  my  computer.i will  process 
>> the  recordings whin  I return home from the  trip. Enney good  sujestions?
>> 
>> Maurice Mines.  
>> 
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RE: links in text messages

[Jessica Barr]

That happens to me sometimes too. Someone texted a link to me, and although 
Links didn't show up in the rotor, I was able to activate the link by 
double-tapping on it. I'm not sure whether that will always work or I was 
lucky, but try that and see if it works.

- Original Message -
From: Lorie McCloud 
Date: Sunday, December 31, 2023 03:16 PM
To: via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: links in text messages

the problem I often have with this is that even though I have links in my 
rotor, they don't show up when I need them.
> On Dec 30, 2023, at 10:07 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:
> 
> Set your rotor to "link" then flick up or down to the desired link and double 
> tap. I had problems with this one at first too
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2023, at 10:17 PM, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> What's the way to click a hyperlink that arrives in a text message on
>> IOS? I haven't managed to find how that's done, so appreciate any help.
>> 
>> Janina
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Janina Sajka (she/her/hers)
>> Accessibility Consultant https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
>> 
>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
>> Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectureshttp://www.w3.org/wai/apa
>> 
>> Linux Foundation Fellow
>> https://www.linuxfoundation.org/board-of-directors-2/
>> 
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Re: [Tech-VI] Microsoft Copilot app arrives on iOS, bringing free ChatGPT-4 to iPhone and iPad

[Jessica Moss]

Thanks for that little tidbit, I ran into that issue last night and was 
wondering if anyone knew of a workaround to stop it.

> On Dec 30, 2023, at 8:09 AM, 'Harry Bell' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Best to use headphones if interacting by voice to stop VoiceOver confusing 
> the copilot! 
> Harry
> 
>> On 30 Dec 2023, at 12:59, leobado1...@gmail.com 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Great, let’s try it out!
>>  
>> Best,
>> Leo Bado
>>  
>> "Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."
>> Elbert Hubbard
>>  
>> From:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> > > On Behalf Of Kelly Ford
>> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2023 5:24 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: Fwd: [Tech-VI] Microsoft Copilot app arrives on iOS, bringing free 
>> ChatGPT-4 to iPhone and iPad
>>  
>> Nice,
>>  
>> This runs on the silicon-based Macs as well.
>>  
>> https://www.windowslatest.com/2023/12/30/microsoft-copilot-app-arrives-on-ios-bringing-free-chatgpt-4-to-iphone-and-ipad/
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>  
>> From: "David Goldfield via groups.io " 
>> > >
>> Subject: [Tech-VI] Microsoft Copilot app arrives on iOS, bringing free 
>> ChatGPT-4 to iPhone and iPad
>> Date: December 29, 2023 at 5:09:07 PM CST
>> To: Tech-VI Announcement List mailto:tech...@groups.io>>
>> Reply-To: tech...@groups.io 
>>  
>> Original Source 
>> 
>>  
>> Home   Microsoft
>> · Microsoft 
>> Microsoft Copilot app arrives on iOS, bringing free ChatGPT-4 to iPhone and 
>> iPad
>> By
>>  Mayank Parmar 
>>  -
>> December 30, 2023
>> 0 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Microsoft has released its Copilot app for iOS devices, just two days after 
>> I reported exclusively that the iOS version was almost ready 
>> .
>>  Now, iPhone and iPad users can download it from the Apple App Store. 
>> Copilot isn’t just another name for Bing Chat; it brings some cool new 
>> things to the table.
>> 
>> Microsoft Copilot app is available via Apple’s App Store 
>> ,
>>  and the tech giant clarified that the AI app is optimized for iPad. In our 
>> tests, we also noticed that Copilot app offers better experience than the 
>> dedicated ChatGPT app for iPad.
>> 
>> While Bing integrates search, rewards, and chat functionalities, Copilot 
>> streamlines its focus on an advanced chat interface, incorporating features 
>> like the innovative DALL-E 3. Unlike Bing, which combines search and AI, 
>> Copilot emerges as a ChatGPT-like app tailored to iOS devices.
>> 
>> Microsoft Copilot for iPad
>> Copilot maintains its versatility as a multi-functional assistant on 
>> Android, supporting GPT Vision, GPT-4, and DALL-E. The addition of ChatGPT-4 
>> Turbo, available to select users, enhances its ability to provide 
>> information on recent events, especially with the search plugin disabled.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Copilot is ChatGPT-4 for iOS, but it’s absolutely free. You can write 
>> emails, stories, or even summarize tough texts. It’s great with languages 
>> too, helping you translate, proofread, and more. And it’s all free, which 
>> Microsoft says won’t change.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> It also plugin support, even third-party plugins at no extra cost. This can 
>> be super handy for planning trips or sprucing up your resume. Plus, there’s 
>> the Image Creator that turns your words into pictures right on your phone.
>> 
>> AskGPT-4Join Forums Join Discord 
>> Post 
>> Copy
>> Link copied to clipboard
>> About The Author
>> 
>> Mayank Parmar 
>> Mayank Parmar is Windows Latest's owner, Editor-in-Chief and entrepreneur. 
>> Mayank has been in tech journalism for over seven years and has written on 
>> various topics, but he is mostly known for his well-researched work on 
>> Microsoft's 

Re: E-sims and Voiceover.

[Jessica Moss]

My phone isn’t new; I’m still using an iPhone 12, and have been with Mint 
Mobile for close to 5 years.  However, their payment plan is so off-the-wall, 
that you pay them every few months instead of having a monthly plan, which 
means they lump those payments together, and with Hannah and myself both being 
on the same plan, I’m paying close to $300 a pop for each of us when that time 
comes, and several times have become overdrawn.
  I just found out recently that a friend of mine switched to Consumer 
Cellular, and is paying roughly $40 a month for them, so decided to give it a 
shot myself.

> On Dec 22, 2023, at 6:17 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> What kind of phone is your new phone.
> If it is a new iPhone, it probably doesn’t have a SIM card in it, because in 
> the US, beginning with the iPhone 14, there is not a SIM card slot anymore..
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 22, 2023, at 14:38, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> So this is the bulk of the instructions they sent me so far.  
> ACTIVATE YOUR NEW ESIM TODAY WITH CONSUMER CELLULAR
> eSIM Installation
> Need Help? Give us a call: (888) 345-5509
> Wi-Fi or an existing cellular plan is required to install an eSIM. You do not 
> need a physical SIM card.
> Setup Your Cellular Service with eSIM:
> If your current device has a physical SIM card, please remove it before 
> continuing
> Turn on your phone
> Connect the phone to WiFi
> Follow the on-screen prompts or scan the QR code 
> <https://www.consumercellular.com/esim-install?uri=LPA%3a1%24SM-V4-103-A-GTM.PR.GO-ESIM.COM%24CC7EC19AC4CCE5C4B6895212B745E15F#qr-jump>
>  below to begin eSIM installation
> After the eSIM has been successfully installed, you will need to restart your 
> phone.
> What's Next?
> New Numbers and Replacement Orders
> Your service is ready to go. If you are changing carriers, please note your 
> old service will no longer work.
> 
> 
> So the whole scanning of the QR code as well as me not knowing how to even 
> remove the SIM card from my phone is what I’m unsure about.
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 3:14 PM, joseph hudson  wrote:
>> 
>> OK cool. Well, whenever you have time, give me a call 254-813-2461. And 
>> we'll see what we can come up with.
>> Joseph Hudson
>> 
>> EmailFaceTime/iMessage
>> jhud7...@twc.com
>> 
>> Connect with me on zoom
>> 
>> https://us06web.zoom.us/j/3437608339?pwd=akNsMHlLTWsyWmk0UXdSaVdsSkhNUT09
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 2:12 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I’d love to talk to you more to see if we can both shed some light on this. 
>>>  Unfortunately, this is the only phone I have, so not sure what to do there.
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 2:53 PM, joseph hudson  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Well, if you want, I would not mind talking with you and helping you 
>>>> through the process. But the key to this whole thing, is you need to have 
>>>> another phone available that you can talk to consumer cellular on. So that 
>>>> they can give you the codes. And if you are. Upgrading your phone, the one 
>>>> that only does eSIM. Then you'll be starting from scratch. Like I did.
>>>> Joseph Hudson
>>>> 
>>>> EmailFaceTime/iMessage
>>>> jhud7...@twc.com
>>>> 
>>>> Connect with me on zoom
>>>> 
>>>> https://us06web.zoom.us/j/3437608339?pwd=akNsMHlLTWsyWmk0UXdSaVdsSkhNUT09
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 1:45 PM, Jessica Moss  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is actually my first time having done anything with an e-sim, so 
>>>>> this whole process is all new to me.  Sadly, I know nothing about how to 
>>>>> even remove/insert a SIM card, so in the past, when I switched carriers, 
>>>>> I either just took my phone to a carrier-specific store and let them do 
>>>>> it, or let Hannah (my now 14-year-old daughter,) do it, who is really 
>>>>> good with just about anything tech-related.
>>>>>   However, she’s in Orlando visiting her dad for Christmas, and things 
>>>>> got so busy right before she left, that there wasn’t time for me to ask 
>>>>> her to help then.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 2:35 PM, joseph hudson  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Wow, sounds like a pain in the rear process. I know whenever I switched 
>>>>>> from my iPhone SE to my iPhone 14, and I currently have spectrum, all I 
>>>>>> had to do was give them are all they had to do, was give me so

Re: E-sims and Voiceover.

[Jessica Moss]

So this is the bulk of the instructions they sent me so far.  
ACTIVATE YOUR NEW ESIM TODAY WITH CONSUMER CELLULAR
eSIM Installation
Need Help? Give us a call: (888) 345-5509
Wi-Fi or an existing cellular plan is required to install an eSIM. You do not 
need a physical SIM card.
Setup Your Cellular Service with eSIM:
If your current device has a physical SIM card, please remove it before 
continuing
Turn on your phone
Connect the phone to WiFi
Follow the on-screen prompts or scan the QR code 
<https://www.consumercellular.com/esim-install?uri=LPA%3a1%24SM-V4-103-A-GTM.PR.GO-ESIM.COM%24CC7EC19AC4CCE5C4B6895212B745E15F#qr-jump>
 below to begin eSIM installation
After the eSIM has been successfully installed, you will need to restart your 
phone.
What's Next?
New Numbers and Replacement Orders
Your service is ready to go. If you are changing carriers, please note your old 
service will no longer work.


So the whole scanning of the QR code as well as me not knowing how to even 
remove the SIM card from my phone is what I’m unsure about.

> On Dec 22, 2023, at 3:14 PM, joseph hudson  wrote:
> 
> OK cool. Well, whenever you have time, give me a call 254-813-2461. And we'll 
> see what we can come up with.
> Joseph Hudson
> 
> EmailFaceTime/iMessage
> jhud7...@twc.com
> 
> Connect with me on zoom
> 
> https://us06web.zoom.us/j/3437608339?pwd=akNsMHlLTWsyWmk0UXdSaVdsSkhNUT09
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 2:12 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> I’d love to talk to you more to see if we can both shed some light on this.  
>> Unfortunately, this is the only phone I have, so not sure what to do there.
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 2:53 PM, joseph hudson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well, if you want, I would not mind talking with you and helping you 
>>> through the process. But the key to this whole thing, is you need to have 
>>> another phone available that you can talk to consumer cellular on. So that 
>>> they can give you the codes. And if you are. Upgrading your phone, the one 
>>> that only does eSIM. Then you'll be starting from scratch. Like I did.
>>> Joseph Hudson
>>> 
>>> EmailFaceTime/iMessage
>>> jhud7...@twc.com
>>> 
>>> Connect with me on zoom
>>> 
>>> https://us06web.zoom.us/j/3437608339?pwd=akNsMHlLTWsyWmk0UXdSaVdsSkhNUT09
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 1:45 PM, Jessica Moss  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> This is actually my first time having done anything with an e-sim, so this 
>>>> whole process is all new to me.  Sadly, I know nothing about how to even 
>>>> remove/insert a SIM card, so in the past, when I switched carriers, I 
>>>> either just took my phone to a carrier-specific store and let them do it, 
>>>> or let Hannah (my now 14-year-old daughter,) do it, who is really good 
>>>> with just about anything tech-related.
>>>>   However, she’s in Orlando visiting her dad for Christmas, and things got 
>>>> so busy right before she left, that there wasn’t time for me to ask her to 
>>>> help then.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 2:35 PM, joseph hudson  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Wow, sounds like a pain in the rear process. I know whenever I switched 
>>>>> from my iPhone SE to my iPhone 14, and I currently have spectrum, all I 
>>>>> had to do was give them are all they had to do, was give me some numbers 
>>>>> to put in, and my eSIM was successfully activated. If you already have an 
>>>>> eSIM, and not using a physical Sim, on the new device, it will pop up 
>>>>> with a thing to ask you, if you want to activate eSIM once you have 
>>>>> signed into your iCloud and connected to Wi-Fi
>>>>> Joseph Hudson
>>>>> 
>>>>> EmailFaceTime/iMessage
>>>>> jhud7...@twc.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> Connect with me on zoom
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://us06web.zoom.us/j/3437608339?pwd=akNsMHlLTWsyWmk0UXdSaVdsSkhNUT09
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Jessica Moss  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I’ve just recently decided to switch to Consumer Cellular, and they sent 
>>>>>> me a huge list of instructions for installing an e-sim, something I’ve 
>>>>>> never done before.  Part of this involves me needing to align my phone 
>>>>>> with an image on my computer screen, if I remember correctly, and 
>>>>>> another step involves needing to scan a QR code, and the rest I’ll need 
&

Re: E-sims and Voiceover.

[Jessica Moss]

I’d love to talk to you more to see if we can both shed some light on this.  
Unfortunately, this is the only phone I have, so not sure what to do there.

> On Dec 22, 2023, at 2:53 PM, joseph hudson  wrote:
> 
> Well, if you want, I would not mind talking with you and helping you through 
> the process. But the key to this whole thing, is you need to have another 
> phone available that you can talk to consumer cellular on. So that they can 
> give you the codes. And if you are. Upgrading your phone, the one that only 
> does eSIM. Then you'll be starting from scratch. Like I did.
> Joseph Hudson
> 
> EmailFaceTime/iMessage
> jhud7...@twc.com
> 
> Connect with me on zoom
> 
> https://us06web.zoom.us/j/3437608339?pwd=akNsMHlLTWsyWmk0UXdSaVdsSkhNUT09
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 1:45 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> This is actually my first time having done anything with an e-sim, so this 
>> whole process is all new to me.  Sadly, I know nothing about how to even 
>> remove/insert a SIM card, so in the past, when I switched carriers, I either 
>> just took my phone to a carrier-specific store and let them do it, or let 
>> Hannah (my now 14-year-old daughter,) do it, who is really good with just 
>> about anything tech-related.
>>   However, she’s in Orlando visiting her dad for Christmas, and things got 
>> so busy right before she left, that there wasn’t time for me to ask her to 
>> help then.
>> 
>>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 2:35 PM, joseph hudson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow, sounds like a pain in the rear process. I know whenever I switched 
>>> from my iPhone SE to my iPhone 14, and I currently have spectrum, all I had 
>>> to do was give them are all they had to do, was give me some numbers to put 
>>> in, and my eSIM was successfully activated. If you already have an eSIM, 
>>> and not using a physical Sim, on the new device, it will pop up with a 
>>> thing to ask you, if you want to activate eSIM once you have signed into 
>>> your iCloud and connected to Wi-Fi
>>> Joseph Hudson
>>> 
>>> EmailFaceTime/iMessage
>>> jhud7...@twc.com
>>> 
>>> Connect with me on zoom
>>> 
>>> https://us06web.zoom.us/j/3437608339?pwd=akNsMHlLTWsyWmk0UXdSaVdsSkhNUT09
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Jessica Moss  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve just recently decided to switch to Consumer Cellular, and they sent 
>>>> me a huge list of instructions for installing an e-sim, something I’ve 
>>>> never done before.  Part of this involves me needing to align my phone 
>>>> with an image on my computer screen, if I remember correctly, and another 
>>>> step involves needing to scan a QR code, and the rest I’ll need to look 
>>>> back at the e-mail they sent me, since it was really long.
>>>>  To anybody who has ever done this, how much of this will I be able to do 
>>>> with Voiceover, and how much will require something like a team viewer 
>>>> session with an Aira Agent to finish setting up?
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>> 
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>> 
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Re: E-sims and Voiceover.

[Jessica Moss]

This is actually my first time having done anything with an e-sim, so this 
whole process is all new to me.  Sadly, I know nothing about how to even 
remove/insert a SIM card, so in the past, when I switched carriers, I either 
just took my phone to a carrier-specific store and let them do it, or let 
Hannah (my now 14-year-old daughter,) do it, who is really good with just about 
anything tech-related.
  However, she’s in Orlando visiting her dad for Christmas, and things got so 
busy right before she left, that there wasn’t time for me to ask her to help 
then.

> On Dec 22, 2023, at 2:35 PM, joseph hudson  wrote:
> 
> Wow, sounds like a pain in the rear process. I know whenever I switched from 
> my iPhone SE to my iPhone 14, and I currently have spectrum, all I had to do 
> was give them are all they had to do, was give me some numbers to put in, and 
> my eSIM was successfully activated. If you already have an eSIM, and not 
> using a physical Sim, on the new device, it will pop up with a thing to ask 
> you, if you want to activate eSIM once you have signed into your iCloud and 
> connected to Wi-Fi
> Joseph Hudson
> 
> EmailFaceTime/iMessage
> jhud7...@twc.com
> 
> Connect with me on zoom
> 
> https://us06web.zoom.us/j/3437608339?pwd=akNsMHlLTWsyWmk0UXdSaVdsSkhNUT09
> 
>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 1:22 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve just recently decided to switch to Consumer Cellular, and they sent me 
>> a huge list of instructions for installing an e-sim, something I’ve never 
>> done before.  Part of this involves me needing to align my phone with an 
>> image on my computer screen, if I remember correctly, and another step 
>> involves needing to scan a QR code, and the rest I’ll need to look back at 
>> the e-mail they sent me, since it was really long.
>>  To anybody who has ever done this, how much of this will I be able to do 
>> with Voiceover, and how much will require something like a team viewer 
>> session with an Aira Agent to finish setting up?
>> 
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E-sims and Voiceover.

[Jessica Moss]

I’ve just recently decided to switch to Consumer Cellular, and they sent me a 
huge list of instructions for installing an e-sim, something I’ve never done 
before.  Part of this involves me needing to align my phone with an image on my 
computer screen, if I remember correctly, and another step involves needing to 
scan a QR code, and the rest I’ll need to look back at the e-mail they sent me, 
since it was really long.
  To anybody who has ever done this, how much of this will I be able to do with 
Voiceover, and how much will require something like a team viewer session with 
an Aira Agent to finish setting up?

-- 
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Re: What is this? And how do I get rid of it? ͏ ͏

[Jessica Moss]

I get those too, and was wondering what on Earth this is as well.  It only 
displays as a space when I scroll character by character using Voiceover, and 
trying to google it has produced nothing.

> On Dec 21, 2023, at 11:54 AM, mr.robertcole via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dear List,
> I get this in a lot of emails on My Mac running Monterey 12.7.2.
> It does not happen on IOS.
> It is saying combining “graphene joiner”
> 
> It seems to be in the subject line, because I can not find it in the body of 
> the email.
> It seems to repeat over and over until I stop it.
> I got VoiceOver to copy last phrase to clipboard so I could paste it here.
> unread Apple Music Enjoy Apple Music for 3 months free. 10:25 AM Don’t forget 
> to redeem yours. ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ 
> ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ 
> ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ 
> ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ 
> ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ 
> ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ 
> ͏͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏ ͏͏
> 
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RE: Here Are The Steps to Get Your iOS 17.2 iPhone / iPad to Automatically Announce When the Battery Level Falls Below or Rises Above a Certain Percentage

[Jessica Barr]

Thank you for these instructions, Mark. It worked well.

- Original Message -
From: MacVisionaries 
Date: Sunday, December 17, 2023 03:41 PM
To: MacVisionaries 
Subject: Here Are The Steps to Get Your iOS 17.2 iPhone / iPad to Automatically 
Announce When the Battery Level Falls Below or Rises Above a Certain Percentage

Hello Everyone,
If you would like to have your iPhone automatically announce when the 
battery level falls below a certain percentage, with VoiceOver enabled, do 
the following:
1.
Launch the Shortcuts app.
2.
Select the Automation tab, located near the bottom of the display.
3.
Select the Add button, located near the top right corner of the display.  A 
list of choices will appear.
4.
Select Battery Level.  A new screen will appear.
5.
Adjust the slider to the desired battery level that will automatically 
activate the shortcut.  The default level is 50%.
6.
On this same screen, select the "Falls Below" option.  Of course, you 
should select either of the other two options in this area, as well.
7.
In the third and final area of this screen, select the "Run Immediately" 
option.  Selecting this option will cause another option to be displayed 
said option being to not only announce the battery level but to also place 
a notification in the notifications area.
8.
Select the Next button located near the top right corner of the display.  A 
new screen will appear.
Now the following step is where we, as VoiceOver users, have to take one 
extra step than does our sighted counterpart because of what I assume is a 
small VoiceOver bug that, in essence, is of no real consequence, at this 
point.
9.
Select the "Get Started" Button.
10.
Select "Speak Text" by performing either the VO split Tap or the VO pass 
through gesture.  This will both select and open the first level of options 
to the Speak Text function.
11.
Place VO focus on the line that VO reads as "Speak Text".
12.
Single-finger, swipe up until you hear "Edit text," and select this option. 
 The edit field for the "Speak Text" function will open and you can either 
use the keyboard or dictation, to type the text that the TTS engine will 
announce. For example, "Mark, you devilishly handsome guy, the battery 
level has fallen below 50 percent."
13.
Select the Done button located just above the on-screen keyboard, on the 
right side of the display.
14.
Test the announcement by selection the "Run this Shortcut" button, located 
near the bottom right corner of the display.
15.
Finally, select the Done button, located near the top right corner of the 
display.
16.
Close the Shortcuts app.
That's all there is to it.  The next time the battery level falls below the 
percentage you designated, it will be automatically announced,outloud.
Mark
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RE: Mark's Update to iOS and iPad OS 17.2: An Extremely Positive Experience

[Jessica Barr]

I'm very happy with iOS 17.2; however, when I updated my Apple Watch to 10.2, 
the VoiceOver voice reverted to Samantha, and I cannot change it back to Zoey 
enhanced. I spent almost two hours on the phone with Apple Accessibility and 
the problem still hasn't been resolved. I know some people like the Samantha 
voice, but I can't stand it. I hope someone can figure out a fix soon. I also 
updated to macOS 14.2 and I've heard great things, but I haven't done a whole 
lot with that yet. I'm still "getting my feet wet" where the Mac is concerned.

- Original Message -
From: "M. Taylor" 
Date: Friday, December 15, 2023 02:07 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Mark's Update to iOS and iPad OS 17.2:  An Extremely Positive 
Experience

Hello All,
Okay, I updated all of my devices, including my Apple TV boxes to their
respective latest versions of the OS.
I am absolutely stunned to report that after testing virtually every aspect
of all of my must-have native and third-party apps, I have not yet
encountered a bug.
And, as painful as it is for me to admit, I think Apple has done a splendid
job with the new version of the native TV app for iOS, iPad OS and, yes,
dare I say it, even TV OS.
I also updated my Apple Watch Series 7 to Watch OS 10.  Again, I can not
find a bug.
In fact, the hap tic time works consistently using the same gestures I've
used since the feature was introduced many years ago.
I have not yet had the opportunity to use a Braille display with the latest
OS so cannot comment on that aspect of the OS.
However, I will say that all of the VoiceOver glitches that I experienced,
when having two active E SIM cards installed, has been completely resolved.
Speaking only for myself, I am absolutely delighted with iOS 17.2.  I am
running the OS on my beloved 1GB iPhone 14 Pro Max.
Before installing the OS I:
1.
Made a full backup of the device on my beloved Windows 10 PC with the latest
version of iTunes.
2.
Backed up the device to iCloud.
3.
Closed every app via the App Switcher.
4.
Disconnected any non-crucial devices from my primary network.
5.
Disconnected all of the sub-networks from the primary network.
6.
Rebooted the device, twice, and allowed it to sit idle for 2-minutes.  This
insures that the device has full acquisition of the network.
7.
Downloaded and install the OS, OTA (over the air).
Mark

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RE: Genres in Music

[Jessica Barr]

I didn't know you could change the genre classifications in the Music app. I 
would be interested to know how you did that, as well as the answer to your 
question about syncing those changes across devices.

- Original Message -
From: "'E.T.' via MacVisionaries" 
Date: Saturday, December 09, 2023 11:54 PM
To: MacVisionaries 
Subject: Genres in Music

Hi all,
On the Mac I have changed the genres in some music. This is not 
reflected in the iOS music app as well as the Apple TV. Is it possible 
to sync the genres I choose on all the devices? Thanks.
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
"Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
  -Helen Keller
My e-Mail:
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
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Re: Do you have a favorite app/browser for Twitter/X??

[Jessica Moss]

That’s what I’ve been hearing as well, which is sad, considering all the links 
they went to to make it usable in the first place.

> On Dec 5, 2023, at 10:46 AM, 'Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 5/12/23 09:28, Herbie Allen wrote:
>> THERE IS AN APP FOR X IN THE MAC APP STORE.
> 
> I've also read claims from multiple sources that X (formerly Twitter) 
> dismissed all of their accessibility specialists last year, so it's a matter 
> of luck whether and to what extent it continues to be accessible to screen 
> reader users.
> 
> I had an old, no longer used, account on X; I went ahead and deleted it.
> 
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RE: A Happy Thanksgiving Day to Everyone

[Jessica Barr]

Happy Thanksgiving to you, too, and thank you for running these lists and 
giving us a space to ask questions and share experiences.

- Original Message -
From: MacVisionaries 
Date: Thursday, November 23, 2023 02:14 PM
To: MacVisionaries 
Subject: A Happy Thanksgiving Day to Everyone

Hello All,
Even though some here in the group live in places where thanksgiving is not 
celebrated, I want to wish everyone in this community a very happy 
Thanksgiving Day.
I am truly thankful that I have the extreme privilege of sharing my 
accessibility life with you all.
I continue to be astonished at how comforting it is to know that you are 
all there and that when I do encounter accessibility problems, 
Apple-related or not, I know that I am not alone in my struggles and that 
you will do your best to help and encourage me to not give up, or give in, 
to the challenge.
Please know that I am thinking about you, today, and everyday.
Most Sincerely,
Moderator Mark
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RE: Re: Need a new Braille display

[Jessica Barr]

Wow, it's amazing that that display has lasted so long with such minimal 
repair! I've heard good things about the quality of displays made by 
Baum/VisioBraille, but I've never had the opportunity to try one out.

- Original Message -
From: "Jason J.G. White" 
Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2023 07:01 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;Jessica Barr 
Subject: Re: Need a new Braille display


On 22/11/23 17:58, Jessica Barr wrote:
> The Brailliant is quite a bit more expensive, but I think it's a great 
> product.
I've had good luck with the first two displays from Baum (now 
VisioBraille) that I have owned. The third display is too new to comment 
on with respect to durability, but it's an excellent product.
I also have a Focus display, unfortunately with cell problems similar to 
what others have described. I suspect it will need more than cleaning. 
There are issues with controls on the display as well. If I remember 
rightly, it dates from around 2017.
as I have two other working braille displays, one of which is a Baum 
device from 2004 that only needed cleaning and a battery replacement to 
bring it back to full working condition, I'm not in any hurry to spend 
the money to have the Focus display looked into. If cell replacement is 
needed, the costs can grow rapidly.

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RE: Re: Need a new Braille display

[Jessica Barr]

I did mention that I purchased the Orbit Reader 20 Plus later (not in beta), 
hoping that the product had improved, and still had dot issues in less than a 
year. Sure, braille cells do go bad eventually, but I think they should last at 
least two years before needing repairs. The Brailliant is quite a bit more 
expensive, but I think it's a great product.

- Original Message -
From: joseph hodge 
Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2023 05:09 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Need a new Braille display

I do want to state that you were testing them for beta so something in beta is 
not the final product. I think they've kind of figured it out. Also, to be 
honest Piezo fails just as much it's not discussed a lot, but dots do go bad on 
other cells that are more expensive! For example, focus has a big problem with 
that throughout their history!
If I were spending the money, I would probably look at either something like 
the mantis for Corti input, if that's your jam! If not, I would probably go 
with the orbit 40 myself. If you were going to be taking the device out in 
public and noise was a big factor then I might look at something like The 
brailliant. 
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 22, 2023, at 4:51 PM, Jessica Barr  wrote:
> 
> I know there are people who have had good luck with Orbit displays, but I 
> don't recommend them. I beta tested several of the original Orbit Reader 20s 
> for my regional braille and talking library, and all had dot issues within a 
> few months if not weeks. Sometime after the Orbit Reader 20 Plus was released 
> I purchased one, hoping the braille technology had improved; however, after 
> about nine months two of the dots on that machine would not come up at all. I 
> use braille for many hours every day, but I am very careful with my displays. 
> I should also mention that the pins make some noise when they refresh. Some 
> people aren't bothered by it, but in certain situations it could be 
> problematic. I have heard that the refresh rate and the noise of the Orbit 
> Reader 40 are about the same as the 20 and 20 Plus.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Simon Cavendish 
> Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2023 01:20 PM
> To: "'E.T.' via MacVisionaries" 
> Subject: Re: Need a new Braille display
> 
> Yes, I'm considering the Orbit 40.  I'm hoping some people on the list may 
> have this display and might share their opinion on it.
> Simon
>> On 22 Nov 2023, at 17:52, Yolanda Thompson  wrote:
>> 
>> Have you looked at the Orbit 40? It is the least expensive display I
>> am aware of.
>> 
>>> On 11/22/23, Simon Cavendish  wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I'd like your suggestions for a new Braille display at a lower price end on
>>> the market.  My Focus 40 blue has died and I need a 32 cell or 40 cell
>>> Braille display with no bells and whistles.  Any comments on the Orbit
>>> Braille display, which seems to be more affordable at present?
>>> 
>>> Many thanks
>>> 
>>> Simon
>>> 
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RE: Re: Need a new Braille display

[Jessica Barr]

I know there are people who have had good luck with Orbit displays, but I don't 
recommend them. I beta tested several of the original Orbit Reader 20s for my 
regional braille and talking library, and all had dot issues within a few 
months if not weeks. Sometime after the Orbit Reader 20 Plus was released I 
purchased one, hoping the braille technology had improved; however, after about 
nine months two of the dots on that machine would not come up at all. I use 
braille for many hours every day, but I am very careful with my displays. I 
should also mention that the pins make some noise when they refresh. Some 
people aren't bothered by it, but in certain situations it could be 
problematic. I have heard that the refresh rate and the noise of the Orbit 
Reader 40 are about the same as the 20 and 20 Plus.

- Original Message -
From: Simon Cavendish 
Date: Wednesday, November 22, 2023 01:20 PM
To: "'E.T.' via MacVisionaries" 
Subject: Re: Need a new Braille display

Yes, I'm considering the Orbit 40.  I'm hoping some people on the list may have 
this display and might share their opinion on it.
Simon 
> On 22 Nov 2023, at 17:52, Yolanda Thompson  wrote:
> 
> Have you looked at the Orbit 40? It is the least expensive display I
> am aware of.
> 
> On 11/22/23, Simon Cavendish  wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I'd like your suggestions for a new Braille display at a lower price end on
>> the market.  My Focus 40 blue has died and I need a 32 cell or 40 cell
>> Braille display with no bells and whistles.  Any comments on the Orbit
>> Braille display, which seems to be more affordable at present?
>> 
>> Many thanks
>> 
>> Simon
>> 
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Re: Test message

[Jessica Moss]

It has.

> On Nov 17, 2023, at 10:39 AM, Simon Cavendish  
> wrote:
> 
> Could you please confirm this message has reached the group?
> 
> Simon 
> 
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Re: text messages on iPhone

[Jessica Moss]

That’s an effect added by default when you text “happy birthday,” to someone.  
I think that started with the onset of IOS 10.
  Also, if you text “happy new year” to someone, fireworks will display, if I 
remember correctly.

> On Nov 2, 2023, at 4:16 PM, Lorie McCloud  wrote:
> 
> earlier today I texted a relative a birthday wish. just words. I thought 
> about looking through the visual stuff to add but I didn’t do it. when they 
> responded they said: “love the ballons. I didn’t send any. what’s going on 
> with my phone that I don’t know about? any ideas?
> 
> thanks.
> Lorie
> 
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Re: ios 17 and two voiceOvers

[Jessica Moss]

I have, mine loves to occasionally switch from Alex to Samantha then back 
again.  I just took it as Apple trying to temporarily patch the bug that’s been 
a constant where Alex temporarily would stop speaking until it could be fixed, 
but even if that is the case, I can’t stand the “cover it up” mentality too 
many people have regarding anything, until it gets so bad someone is forced to 
deal with it, and then is 10 times worse and even harder to fix.

> On Oct 12, 2023, at 10:15 AM, christopher moore  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> Occasionally my iPhone switches from my standard VO voice to a siri voice.  
> When this happens the screen navigation becomes sluggish.  My normal voice 
> eventually returns, but this behavior is extremely annoying.
> 
> Anyone else had similar experiences?
> 
> Chris
> 
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Re: HTML question.

[Jessica Moss]

Can we communicate off list please?  I’m not sure if we may be using completely 
different versions of VS Code, or if I’m doing something wrong, but 
unfortunately the instructions you gave me aren’t working on my end for some 
reason.

> On Oct 4, 2023, at 12:02 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> No,There are two primary component in an HTML document 
> 
> and 
>  
> The entire document is started with the 
> doctype tag which Visual Studio code should add automatically and then
> you surround both the  and 
> 
> If you are using visual studio code I suggest the following process.
> 1. press ctrl-N to create a new document.
> 2. Immediately press command-S to save it as foo.html where foo is the name 
> of the document you want.
> 3. Enter  (VSC will then add a 
>  4. Press enter twice and then up arrow and add in a  (again) VSC will  
> automatically add the  immediately after the 
> 5. Now add in your  and 
> 6. Go to the top and press < and VSC will say !doctype or something close to 
> that press enter and VSC will complete that code.
> 
> At this point you have a completely empty HTML basic file.
> All of the paragraph headings links and other HTML content that is visible to 
> the end user should go between the 
> 
> and  the 
> 
> 
> Of course, if you want you could create a template.html that has your basic 
> structure in it and then open it and immediately do a save as with what you 
> plan to create.
> Have fun and good luck!
> 
> 
> 
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2023, at 9:40 AM, Jessica Moss > <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Ok, thank you so much, one question though: if I’m going to start something 
>> with multiple links, paragraphs, lists, etc, is the 
>> 
>>  closing tag a must when dealing with each individual section?
>> 
>>> On Oct 3, 2023, at 4:57 PM, 'Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I would suggest using the W3C’s HTML validator. It should be available in 
>>> an extension for your preferred editor.
>>> It’s also available in HomeBrew via the vnu package. You can then run it 
>>> from a MacOS terminal.
>>>  
>>> From: mr.robertcole via MacVisionaries >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>>> Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 15:27
>>> To: Email Groups >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>>> Subject: Re: HTML question.
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> I noticed a few errors.
>>> First, the following two lines should be at the end of the document.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This represents the end of the code.
>>>  
>>> Second, your link should look like this.
>>> http://www.google.com <http://www.google.com/>”> Google Web Page 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> I used Google as an example. The  means line break.
>>>  
>>> Good luck!
>>> Rob
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 3, 2023, at 2:31 PM, Jessica Moss >> <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> I’m still in the process of learning HTML, which I’ve been attempting 
>>> through W3Schools, and have a document started that I’m slowly trying to 
>>> build out in text edit.
>>>   I’ve tested what I’ve attempted to write in VS code, which continuously 
>>> says “no problems,” and Codepen.io <http://codepen.io/> which tells me 
>>> there are missing tags, and the Href section needs double quotes, even 
>>> after I’ve entered them.
>>>   I’m still in the beginning stages of this, so to me, what I’m about to 
>>> share with you looks write, but would appreciate anyone’s feedback, and why 
>>> I’m getting 2 different types of results.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> My First Heading
>>>  
>>> My first paragraph.
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Jessica Website
>>> • List Element 1
>>> • List Element 2
>>>  
>>> Jessica Website
>>> •
>>> Test
>>> < h1 > the Tom Robinson Case  did Tom Robinson actually rape 
>>> Mayella Ewell, or was this simply a case of racial injustice? 
>>> http://tomsdefense.com <http://tomsdefense.com/> 
>>>  
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionarie

Re: HTML question.

[Jessica Moss]

Ok, thank you so much, one question though: if I’m going to start something 
with multiple links, paragraphs, lists, etc, is the 

 closing tag a must when dealing with each individual section?

> On Oct 3, 2023, at 4:57 PM, 'Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I would suggest using the W3C’s HTML validator. It should be available in an 
> extension for your preferred editor.
> It’s also available in HomeBrew via the vnu package. You can then run it from 
> a MacOS terminal.
>  
> From: mr.robertcole via MacVisionaries 
> Date: Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 15:27
> To: Email Groups 
> Subject: Re: HTML question.
> 
> Hi,
> I noticed a few errors.
> First, the following two lines should be at the end of the document.
> 
> 
> This represents the end of the code.
>  
> Second, your link should look like this.
> http://www.google.com <http://www.google.com/>”> Google Web Page 
> 
>  
> I used Google as an example. The  means line break.
>  
> Good luck!
> Rob
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> On Oct 3, 2023, at 2:31 PM, Jessica Moss  <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  
> I’m still in the process of learning HTML, which I’ve been attempting through 
> W3Schools, and have a document started that I’m slowly trying to build out in 
> text edit.
>   I’ve tested what I’ve attempted to write in VS code, which continuously 
> says “no problems,” and Codepen.io <http://codepen.io/> which tells me there 
> are missing tags, and the Href section needs double quotes, even after I’ve 
> entered them.
>   I’m still in the beginning stages of this, so to me, what I’m about to 
> share with you looks write, but would appreciate anyone’s feedback, and why 
> I’m getting 2 different types of results.
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
> My First Heading
>  
> My first paragraph.
>  
> 
> 
> Jessica Website
> • List Element 1
> • List Element 2
>  
> Jessica Website
> •
> Test
> < h1 > the Tom Robinson Case  did Tom Robinson actually rape Mayella 
> Ewell, or was this simply a case of racial injustice? 
> http://tomsdefense.com <http://tomsdefense.com/> 
>  
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
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Re: HTML question.

[Jessica Moss]

Thank you so much, think I managed to fix it.

> On Oct 3, 2023, at 3:27 PM, mr.robertcole via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I noticed a few errors.
> First, the following two lines should be at the end of the document.
> 
>> 
> This represents the end of the code.
> 
> Second, your link should look like this.
> http://www.google.com <http://www.google.com/>”> Google Web Page 
> 
> 
> I used Google as an example. The  means line break.
> 
> Good luck!
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2023, at 2:31 PM, Jessica Moss > <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I’m still in the process of learning HTML, which I’ve been attempting 
>> through W3Schools, and have a document started that I’m slowly trying to 
>> build out in text edit.
>>   I’ve tested what I’ve attempted to write in VS code, which continuously 
>> says “no problems,” and Codepen.io <http://codepen.io/> which tells me there 
>> are missing tags, and the Href section needs double quotes, even after I’ve 
>> entered them.
>>   I’m still in the beginning stages of this, so to me, what I’m about to 
>> share with you looks write, but would appreciate anyone’s feedback, and why 
>> I’m getting 2 different types of results.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> My First Heading
>> 
>> My first paragraph.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Jessica Website
>> •   List Element 1
>> •   List Element 2
>> 
>> Jessica Website
>> •   
>> Test
>> < h1 > the Tom Robinson Case  did Tom Robinson actually rape Mayella 
>> Ewell, or was this simply a case of racial injustice? 
>> http://tomsdefense.com <http://tomsdefense.com/> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>
>>  
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> 
> 
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Re: HTML question.

[Jessica Moss]

I understand and appreciate that.  However, this is as far as I’ve gotten so 
far:

https://www.w3schools.com/html/html_basic.asp
HTML Basic
w3schools.com


And I’ve only gotten as far as “html links,” so unfortunately I don’t know 
anything about where the code you sent me goes.

> On Oct 3, 2023, at 3:23 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> I gave you an example in my previous email.
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2023, at 14:07, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> Possibly, I haven’t even gotten to that point yet, so honestly know nothing 
>> yet about adding that, let alone where to.
>> 
>>> On Oct 3, 2023, at 2:50 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Looks good, except I notice you don't have any color codes. I wonder if 
>>> that's why you're getting errors?
>>> >> vlink="#20B2AA">
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 3, 2023, at 13:31, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I’m still in the process of learning HTML, which I’ve been attempting 
>>>> through W3Schools, and have a document started that I’m slowly trying to 
>>>> build out in text edit.
>>>>   I’ve tested what I’ve attempted to write in VS code, which continuously 
>>>> says “no problems,” and Codepen.io <http://codepen.io/> which tells me 
>>>> there are missing tags, and the Href section needs double quotes, even 
>>>> after I’ve entered them.
>>>>   I’m still in the beginning stages of this, so to me, what I’m about to 
>>>> share with you looks write, but would appreciate anyone’s feedback, and 
>>>> why I’m getting 2 different types of results.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> My First Heading
>>>> 
>>>> My first paragraph.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Jessica Website
>>>> •   List Element 1
>>>> •   List Element 2
>>>> 
>>>> Jessica Website
>>>> •   
>>>> Test
>>>> < h1 > the Tom Robinson Case  did Tom Robinson actually rape 
>>>> Mayella Ewell, or was this simply a case of racial injustice? 
>>>> http://tomsdefense.com 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>  
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>>  
>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>>>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>>  
>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>>>>  
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/B2B8D4FC-624D-4AF0-99F2-ADF0951A1F22%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>.
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: HTML question.

[Jessica Moss]

Possibly, I haven’t even gotten to that point yet, so honestly know nothing yet 
about adding that, let alone where to.

> On Oct 3, 2023, at 2:50 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Looks good, except I notice you don't have any color codes. I wonder if 
> that's why you're getting errors?
>  vlink="#20B2AA">
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2023, at 13:31, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> I’m still in the process of learning HTML, which I’ve been attempting 
>> through W3Schools, and have a document started that I’m slowly trying to 
>> build out in text edit.
>>   I’ve tested what I’ve attempted to write in VS code, which continuously 
>> says “no problems,” and Codepen.io <http://codepen.io/> which tells me there 
>> are missing tags, and the Href section needs double quotes, even after I’ve 
>> entered them.
>>   I’m still in the beginning stages of this, so to me, what I’m about to 
>> share with you looks write, but would appreciate anyone’s feedback, and why 
>> I’m getting 2 different types of results.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> My First Heading
>> 
>> My first paragraph.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Jessica Website
>> •   List Element 1
>> •   List Element 2
>> 
>> Jessica Website
>> •   
>> Test
>> < h1 > the Tom Robinson Case  did Tom Robinson actually rape Mayella 
>> Ewell, or was this simply a case of racial injustice? 
>> http://tomsdefense.com 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>  
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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HTML question.

[Jessica Moss]

I’m still in the process of learning HTML, which I’ve been attempting through 
W3Schools, and have a document started that I’m slowly trying to build out in 
text edit.
  I’ve tested what I’ve attempted to write in VS code, which continuously says 
“no problems,” and Codepen.io <http://codepen.io/> which tells me there are 
missing tags, and the Href section needs double quotes, even after I’ve entered 
them.
  I’m still in the beginning stages of this, so to me, what I’m about to share 
with you looks write, but would appreciate anyone’s feedback, and why I’m 
getting 2 different types of results.






My First Heading

My first paragraph.



Jessica Website
•   List Element 1
•   List Element 2

Jessica Website
•   
Test
< h1 > the Tom Robinson Case  did Tom Robinson actually rape Mayella 
Ewell, or was this simply a case of racial injustice? 
http://tomsdefense.com 

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caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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Re: App Store issues on Mac with latest update.

[Jessica Moss]

I’ve done both, and that’s gotten me next to nowhere.  Interacting with the 
first section starts displaying something about “stay up to date with 
notifications, get notified about billing and product updates, etc.
  Then there’s one before that with an unlabeled image, and nothing more that I 
can scroll passed.
  Therefore, I’m unable to locate the search box, and the usual fields I used 
to be able to find that showed me what needed updating and the like aren’t 
showing up anymore.

> On Sep 27, 2023, at 11:16 AM, 'Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I just tried it, and it worked fine here. You have to interact with the 
> sections to reach the individual app entries.
> The search field is immediately before the side bar.
> You should be using VoiceOver navigation commands to read, not tabbing.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  on 
> behalf of Jessica Moss 
> Date: Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 11:11
> To: 'Jim Fettgather' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: App Store issues on Mac with latest update.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed that since updating to Mac OS Sonoma , that Voiceover 
> seems to read nothing in regard to the App Store anymore?  Also, no amount of 
> scrolling/tabbing seems to produce the search box on my end.
> 
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App Store issues on Mac with latest update.

[Jessica Moss]

Has anyone else noticed that since updating to Mac OS Sonoma , that Voiceover 
seems to read nothing in regard to the App Store anymore?  Also, no amount of 
scrolling/tabbing seems to produce the search box on my end.

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Re: macos 14 Sonoma

[Jessica Moss]

Is that out now?  I didn’t think it was supposed to come out until tomorrow.

> On Sep 25, 2023, at 5:45 PM, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Any reviews from those who have upgraded?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> "Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much."
> -Helen Keller
> My e-Mail:
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
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question about downloading music from my Apple Music library

[Jessica Barr]

Hi. I want to download my music to my Mac, and have already started. I have a 
huge library, though, so going into each album, activating the Download button, 
going back to the list of albums and repeating the process with the next one is 
very tedious. Is there a faster way to do this?

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RE: Re: new member and new to the Mac

[Jessica Barr]

Thanks to all for the warm welcome. I do think I'm going to like my Mac, 
although I have been frustrated at times. One thing I didn't know which would 
have saved me some aggravation is that I would have to change a setting to make 
the function keys behave normally. Yes, I really like that VoiceOver is already 
built in, and I prefer more natural-sounding voices than what JAWS has.

- Original Message -
From: Cara Quinn 
Date: Friday, September 22, 2023 09:15 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
CC: Cara Quinn 
Subject: Re: new member and new to the Mac

Hi Jess!
Welcome and congratulations on your new Mac!
I also am a big fan of MacBook Airs. I really like them a lot.
There are a lot of friendly and highly intelligent folks on this list so I hope 
you find what you need and enjoy the list!
Glad to have you with us and have a terrific day!
Cheers!
Cara

> On Sep 21, 2023, at 7:04 PM, Jessica Barr  wrote:
> 
> Hello. My name is Jessica (or Jess). I recently got a MacBook Air, which is 
> my first Mac. For quite a while I relied on just my iPhone or my braille 
> notetaker to do things, but I decided it would be good to have a Mac as well. 
> I'm looking forward to learning from the people on this list.
> 
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new member and new to the Mac

[Jessica Barr]

Hello. My name is Jessica (or Jess). I recently got a MacBook Air, which is my 
first Mac. For quite a while I relied on just my iPhone or my braille notetaker 
to do things, but I decided it would be good to have a Mac as well. I'm looking 
forward to learning from the people on this list.

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Re: Anyone upgraded to IOS 17?

[Jessica Moss]

Interesting.  Mine plays a softer sound, that I can’t hear unless I’m literally 
holding my phone.

> On Sep 21, 2023, at 4:18 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Volume of notifications I receive is also unchanged from previous iOS.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 21, 2023, at 14:56, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> Same on my end.  I’m not sure how impressed I am with the quieter 
> notification sound, but probably just something I’ll have to learn to get 
> used to.
> 
>> On Sep 21, 2023, at 3:33 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>> 
>> Also not true.
>> I have a custom text notification tone, and nothing changed when I updated 
>> to iOS 17.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 21, 2023, at 12:26, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Oh, thanks for this clarification.  I don’t use custom tones for texts, so 
>> this will not be a huge deal for me.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Sep 21, 2023, at 11:33 AM, bbsshawn via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi. What he's talking about is text tones not ringtones. If you select a 
>>> new text tone, you can't go to your custom tone because it's not there. I 
>>> heard a rumor that resetting your phone's settings will get the tones back 
>>> but I'm taking it with a grain of salt until someone else tries it. I'll 
>>> probably wait until the first beta of iOS 17.1 rolls out to me as I'm still 
>>> enrolled in the beta.
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 20, 2023, at 7:47 PM, Muhammad Fayed  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> How about Voiceover stops speaking?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks
>>>> 
>>>> Mohamed E. Fayed 
>>>> 
>>>> Mohamed E. Fayed 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 21 Sep 2023, at 1:21 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good to know.  Thanks, Jason.
>>>>> Donna
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 20, 2023, at 12:36 PM, 'Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I upgraded, and it's all working well so far on an iPhone XS.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 10:24 AM
>>>>>> To: via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>> Subject: Anyone upgraded to IOS 17?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I read the AppleVis review, and it sounded like IOS 17 may still have 
>>>>>> some significant accessibility concerns, so I haven’t yet downloaded it. 
>>>>>>  Has anyone here upgraded?  If yes, how is it going?
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Donna
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> Visionaries list.
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>>>>>> 
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Re: Anyone upgraded to IOS 17?

[Jessica Moss]

Same on my end.  I’m not sure how impressed I am with the quieter notification 
sound, but probably just something I’ll have to learn to get used to.

> On Sep 21, 2023, at 3:33 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> Also not true.
> I have a custom text notification tone, and nothing changed when I updated to 
> iOS 17.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 21, 2023, at 12:26, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Oh, thanks for this clarification.  I don’t use custom tones for texts, so 
> this will not be a huge deal for me.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Sep 21, 2023, at 11:33 AM, bbsshawn via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi. What he's talking about is text tones not ringtones. If you select a new 
>> text tone, you can't go to your custom tone because it's not there. I heard 
>> a rumor that resetting your phone's settings will get the tones back but I'm 
>> taking it with a grain of salt until someone else tries it. I'll probably 
>> wait until the first beta of iOS 17.1 rolls out to me as I'm still enrolled 
>> in the beta.
>> 
>>> On Sep 20, 2023, at 7:47 PM, Muhammad Fayed  wrote:
>>> 
>>> How about Voiceover stops speaking?
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> Mohamed E. Fayed 
>>> 
>>> Mohamed E. Fayed 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 21 Sep 2023, at 1:21 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Good to know.  Thanks, Jason.
 Donna
 
> On Sep 20, 2023, at 12:36 PM, 'Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I upgraded, and it's all working well so far on an iPhone XS.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 10:24 AM
> To: via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Anyone upgraded to IOS 17?
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I read the AppleVis review, and it sounded like IOS 17 may still have 
> some significant accessibility concerns, so I haven’t yet downloaded it.  
> Has anyone here upgraded?  If yes, how is it going?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Anyone upgraded to IOS 17?

[Jessica Moss]

I’m enjoying it so far.  The new predictive text feature is taking a little 
getting used to though.  Half the time, it’s so spot on, I’m kind of in between 
“I love this,” and “this is outright scary, how is this happening?"

> On Sep 20, 2023, at 10:49 AM, Dave Carlson  wrote:
> 
> Working very well. Much faster response over iOS 16. No accessibility issues 
> yet. iPhone 14 Pro is my hardware.
> 
> Dave Carlson
> Oregonian, Woodworker, Farfar, Engineer, Musician
> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 20, 2023, at 7:23 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I read the AppleVis review, and it sounded like IOS 17 may still have some 
> significant accessibility concerns, so I haven’t yet downloaded it.  Has 
> anyone here upgraded?  If yes, how is it going?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Running Retroarch on an M1 Mac.

[Jessica Moss]

That’s really a shame how much they seem to have broken accessibility for that. 
 I managed to get the over all accessibility up and running with the help of an 
Aira Agent, but doing it the old fashion way with the right arrow and up-arrow 
about 7 times now officially appears to be broken, and the whole menu structure 
seems to have no keyboard access at all.  Then while I now have the 
accessibility menu enabled, I can’t for the life of me figure out how to get 
the AI service up and running.
  I’m not sure if this is something they’ve broken, or as a result of me not 
having set that up in years, and it took me several tries when I did it the 
first time to configure that correctly, so it may be both, since I 
unfortunately don’t remember what I ended up doing aside from getting an 
account with Z-translate.

> On Sep 18, 2023, at 8:46 AM, joseph hodge  wrote:
> 
> Hey sorry for the long delay here. I just got my Mac back as the hard drive 
> failed and Apple had to replace it. Yeah sadly it seems not to be working on 
> my end either. It will load but I can’t figure out how to get speech running. 
> I have an old cfg file that has speech running and I hear it start saying 
> something then it crashes.
> 
>> On Sep 10, 2023, at 4:05 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve attempted to reinstall/reconfigure Retroarch on my M1 Mac, which I knew 
>> was a step by step process to set up when configuring it on my 2011 MacBook.
>> However, on trying to run the latest, I’m not even finding the settings menu 
>> to even begin the setup process.  Is there just simply no means of doing 
>> this anymore, or has something about this process changed that needs to be 
>> updated as part of the user guide?
>> 
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Running Retroarch on an M1 Mac.

[Jessica Moss]

I’ve attempted to reinstall/reconfigure Retroarch on my M1 Mac, which I knew 
was a step by step process to set up when configuring it on my 2011 MacBook.
  However, on trying to run the latest, I’m not even finding the settings menu 
to even begin the setup process.  Is there just simply no means of doing this 
anymore, or has something about this process changed that needs to be updated 
as part of the user guide?

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Re: Question regarding the BeMyAi feature.

[Jessica Moss]

Ok, more in regard to this feature: I sent feedback to them yesterday letting 
the team know I’m thoroughly enjoying the BeMyAi feature, and would like to see 
a means of being able to share photos along with the description given 
implemented into the app.  I then received a response, in short, letting me 
know they’re working on this, but at present, I can copy the photo and text 
separately in the ask more tab, which I’ve managed to do, but the only way I 
can seem to be able to paste it, is in the notes app.
  However, sharing it that way becomes difficult, because if I want to share it 
in places such as WhatsApp groups, it then wants me to share a link to it, 
instead of the single file itself.  Is there a workaround for this, or is 
generating a link a must?

> On Sep 4, 2023, at 8:29 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Jessica.
> Donna
> 
>> On Sep 3, 2023, at 1:28 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> There should be a tab called “virtual volunteer,” that you can click on to 
>> sign up there, I think all I had to do was click the button to be added to 
>> their waiting list, then just wait to get their e-mail.  To my 
>> understanding, there’s no set time frame though, as to when you’re granted 
>> access; I was granted access in about a week, as where I heard other people 
>> say they’ve been on the waiting list for about a month, so just prepare 
>> yourself.
>> 
>>> On Sep 3, 2023, at 9:06 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> How does one sign up for this?
>>> TIA,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 3, 2023, at 2:32 AM, 'Harry Bell' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Currently all faces are blurred out so there is no description of faces. 
>>>> They told me that this is because of a privacy law in some US state - but 
>>>> they hope to develop a way round this at some point! 
>>>> Harry 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2 Sep 2023, at 22:36, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I’ve just signed up for and been granted access to the BeMyAi beta 
>>>>> feature, which I’m really enjoying.  However, I had no idea when I 
>>>>> noticed others before me who were granted access sharing photos on 
>>>>> Facebook along with the alt text this feature provides, that you 
>>>>> unfortunately can’t share pictures you’ve taken within the app itself.
>>>>> In everyone’s opinion: how realistic of an approach do you think this 
>>>>> would be to request that this be a feature that can be added, before I 
>>>>> share feedback with them requesting it?
>>>>> 
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Re: Question regarding the BeMyAi feature.

[Jessica Moss]

Is there somewhere specific to send feedback about that other than the “send 
feedback,” tab?  That’s where I ended up going to let them know about my screen 
freezing up as well when you close out of the chat feature under the “ask more” 
tab, and upon rating/ending a chat and returning to the camera screen, the take 
picture button is no longer visible, causing me to have to completely close and 
relaunch the app.  However, upon sending feedback that way, I also got no 
response, which I’m unsure if that’s just due to multiple people sending them 
feedback, or something else entirely.

> On Sep 2, 2023, at 7:27 PM, Minh Ha  wrote:
> 
> I’ve been on the beta team for a while and this feedback has been given many 
> times. They know about it and are hopefully working on adding that feature. 
> It never hurts to add your voice to the clammer though.
> 
> 
> Minh Ha
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 2, 2023, at 5:35 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve just signed up for and been granted access to the BeMyAi beta feature, 
>> which I’m really enjoying.  However, I had no idea when I noticed others 
>> before me who were granted access sharing photos on Facebook along with the 
>> alt text this feature provides, that you unfortunately can’t share pictures 
>> you’ve taken within the app itself.
>> In everyone’s opinion: how realistic of an approach do you think this would 
>> be to request that this be a feature that can be added, before I share 
>> feedback with them requesting it?
>> 
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Re: Question regarding the BeMyAi feature.

[Jessica Moss]

There should be a tab called “virtual volunteer,” that you can click on to sign 
up there, I think all I had to do was click the button to be added to their 
waiting list, then just wait to get their e-mail.  To my understanding, there’s 
no set time frame though, as to when you’re granted access; I was granted 
access in about a week, as where I heard other people say they’ve been on the 
waiting list for about a month, so just prepare yourself.

> On Sep 3, 2023, at 9:06 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> How does one sign up for this?
> TIA,
> Donna
> 
>> On Sep 3, 2023, at 2:32 AM, 'Harry Bell' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Currently all faces are blurred out so there is no description of faces. 
>> They told me that this is because of a privacy law in some US state - but 
>> they hope to develop a way round this at some point! 
>> Harry 
>> 
>>> On 2 Sep 2023, at 22:36, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I’ve just signed up for and been granted access to the BeMyAi beta 
>>> feature, which I’m really enjoying.  However, I had no idea when I noticed 
>>> others before me who were granted access sharing photos on Facebook along 
>>> with the alt text this feature provides, that you unfortunately can’t share 
>>> pictures you’ve taken within the app itself.
>>> In everyone’s opinion: how realistic of an approach do you think this would 
>>> be to request that this be a feature that can be added, before I share 
>>> feedback with them requesting it?
>>> 
>>> -- 
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Question regarding the BeMyAi feature.

[Jessica Moss]

I’ve just signed up for and been granted access to the BeMyAi beta feature, 
which I’m really enjoying.  However, I had no idea when I noticed others before 
me who were granted access sharing photos on Facebook along with the alt text 
this feature provides, that you unfortunately can’t share pictures you’ve taken 
within the app itself.
  In everyone’s opinion: how realistic of an approach do you think this would 
be to request that this be a feature that can be added, before I share feedback 
with them requesting it?

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Re: Editing PDF's with Voiceover

[Jessica Moss]

Ok, so would the same apply to a privacy policy which is supposed to state the 
following “to fight the funding of terrorists” but the word “fight” looks like 
“y(umlaut symbol)ght?  I can’t figure out how to type the umlaut symbol 
correctly, so that’s why it’s spelled out, but it wasn’t in a privacy policy I 
was sent to audit, and I was like “what?"

> On Aug 4, 2023, at 6:06 PM, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 4, 2023, at 08:27, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> Ok, all I’m really wanting to do at this point, is correct the spelling 
>> errors I’m constantly finding in these PDF’s I’m sent, a perfect example I’m 
>> always finding is the I is always left out of the word “financial,” so 
>> Voiceover will always pronounce it “financal”. 
> This probably isn’t a spelling error in the PDF file at all. The most likely 
> cause is that the “fi” ligature is being used in the typeset text, and the 
> PDF isn’t properly accessible, so your screen reader isn’t
> Receiving the correct characters, even though both “f” and “I” are present in 
> the text as shown on screen or printed.
> You could convert the PDF file to text and then edit, I suppose. Editing the 
> original PDF wouldn’t help, as it’s most likely correct as is.
> 
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Re: Editing PDF's with Voiceover

[Jessica Moss]

Ok, all I’m really wanting to do at this point, is correct the spelling errors 
I’m constantly finding in these PDF’s I’m sent, a perfect example I’m always 
finding is the I is always left out of the word “financial,” so Voiceover will 
always pronounce it “financal”. 
What means would you think would be easiest for me to do this?
> On Aug 4, 2023, at 7:26 AM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> The process of turning an inaccessible PDF document into a document that can 
> be reviewed by a screen reader is called tagging.
> With tagging you can also indicate if an item is a heading or list item or a 
> paragraph.
> Depending on how well the OCR does, tagging to that level might be difficult 
> for a blind person.
> Certainly Adobe Acrobat (which I believe can be obtained for about $5/month) 
> can do tagging, but there are also non Adobe product that can do this. 
> Obviously the best solution is to start with a word or in-design document and 
> then convert it to a PDF. When one does things this way, most of the editors 
> styles will get directly converted into the appropriate tag in the PDF
> Also, I believe that Pnema solutions has a cloud based service that uses AI 
> to better convert scanned text into a usable pdf using AI for spelling 
> corrections and detecting font changes that might indicate  headers.
>  
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 3, 2023, at 7:43 PM, Jessica Moss > <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Over the last few months, I’ve been getting PDF’s via e-mail which have 
>> mostly been news letters from the clients the company I work with 
>> audits/remediates for accessibility, and I check over them to make sure 
>> everything is readable.
>>  However, some of these I’ve been noticing have been scanned, but not 
>> proofread, because they are so riddled with spelling errors, which while 
>> this is technically not considered an accessibility violation, some of them 
>> are so bad they make the document borderline unreadable if you’re reading it 
>> with a screen reader.  However, I’m only using Adobe Acrobat Reader, and am 
>> wondering how doable the process to go through via Voiceover and edit these 
>> would be before I consider purchasing a license to do this.  Has anyone done 
>> this who could give me some pointers?
>> 
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Editing PDF's with Voiceover

[Jessica Moss]

Over the last few months, I’ve been getting PDF’s via e-mail which have mostly 
been news letters from the clients the company I work with audits/remediates 
for accessibility, and I check over them to make sure everything is readable.
  However, some of these I’ve been noticing have been scanned, but not 
proofread, because they are so riddled with spelling errors, which while this 
is technically not considered an accessibility violation, some of them are so 
bad they make the document borderline unreadable if you’re reading it with a 
screen reader.  However, I’m only using Adobe Acrobat Reader, and am wondering 
how doable the process to go through via Voiceover and edit these would be 
before I consider purchasing a license to do this.  Has anyone done this who 
could give me some pointers?

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Re: Chat GPT, Anyone?

[Jessica Moss]

Isn’t it?  I play around with it from time to time, but where I’ve found it to 
have fallen a little short is when it comes to its ability to write code, 
unless there’s something I’m missing.  I asked it one day after listening to 
the AppleVis podcast Thomas Domville did, borrowed his idea to have it create 
multiple choice questions about AppleVis, but then asked it to create a 
sharable template with radio buttons, which it attempted to do, but instead of 
radio buttons, it created checkboxes.  I then attempted to test the line of 
code it created on Codepen.io , and unfortunately the site 
wouldn’t have anything to do with it.


> On Jul 10, 2023, at 11:01 PM, Brandon Olivares  
> wrote:
> 
> I use it regularly and it works really well, though it has limits. I use it 
> to help with writing, sometimes to help with programming, to brainstorm 
> ideas, etc. It’s definitely insane how far things have come in such a short 
> time.
> 
> BTW you don’t necessarily need the app: there is a web interface as well.
> 
>> On Jul 10, 2023, at 10:39 PM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello All,
>> 
>> Just so you know, I am posting this to both lists.
>> 
>> So I keep running into all kinds of news articles on Chat GPT, a product
>> from the Open A I project.
>> 
>> Has anyone downloaded the app from the App Store and, if so, are you finding
>> it as amazing as some of the news reporters from USA Today and the
>> Wallstreet Journal?  
>> 
>> I went to the website at chat.openai.com to see what I could find.  I did
>> not find much; I'll have to download the app to really check it out.
>> 
>> Oh, the article I read today, in the Apple News app talked about how Chat
>> GPT planned the writer's vacation itinerary and did a pretty good job of it,
>> apparently.
>> 
>> I look forward to reading your replies,
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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Re: More strange Mac mail behaviors.

[Jessica Moss]

As stated, I’ve done that, and it’s been resolved, I just find it interested as 
to how that was switched in the first place.

> On Jul 7, 2023, at 3:59 PM, matthew dyer  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Check mailbox bdehavers and see if there is something in there.  So under 
> prefrences, accounts.  Select the account and there is a mailbox behaviors 
> tab where you can change the way mailboxes sync and other behavers.  Thanks.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:47 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> This happens regardless of whether I restart mail or not.  Also, How do I 
>> check to see if I have messages marked as deleted or not?
>>   I wouldn’t think anything has changed, since I honestly don’t know how 
>> to/have any desire to change how messages behave for this vary reason, so 
>> I’m really stumped on how this happened.
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:29 PM, matthew dyer  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Whzat happens if you restart the mail app.  Also, do you have mail set to 
>>> mark messages as deleted?  This is very strange.
>>> 
>>> Matthew
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:18 PM, 'Dan Eickmeier' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> OH wow, that’s weird, Jess.  Have never had anything like that happen in 
>>>> mail where you can’t delete all messages, and having messages come back 
>>>> that you delete.  That’s interesting.  
>>>> Dan Eickmeier. Beamsville, Ontario Canada.  Amateur radio callsign: VA3ETS
>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/va3ets Mastodon: @va3ets@mstdn.social 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 10:56 AM, Jessica Moss  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Honestly, I have no idea, I just no that at this point, something has 
>>>>> somehow happened where all my deleted messages are now coming back as 
>>>>> soon as I delete them, and command+shift+delete no longer erases 
>>>>> everything like it used to on either of my mailboxes.  This just randomly 
>>>>> happened yesterday, without me having done anything to my settings, so 
>>>>> have no idea what needs to be fixed, let alone what could have caused it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Jonathan C. Cohn  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Are you perhaps, confusing filters and searches? If you do a search 
>>>>>> within all mail that it will look at every folder, including your 
>>>>>> deleted folder in some cases.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 9:03 AM, Jessica Moss  
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I just noticed yesterday, and have no idea what brought this on, that 
>>>>>>> when I launched my Apple mail, everything in my personal mailbox looked 
>>>>>>> like it it had completely been erased.  However, everything within my 
>>>>>>> work e-mailbox, which is also gmail-based, was still in tact.
>>>>>>> Then next thing I knew, Voiceover kept saying something about filters, 
>>>>>>> upon mail being launched, which I never mess with, but figured I’d 
>>>>>>> attempt to do so to see if I could recover them.  So after doing some 
>>>>>>> playing around to see what would take, I somehow managed to get my mail 
>>>>>>> back, but now on both sides, my erase-all command is now no longer 
>>>>>>> working, and my messages are reappearing as fast as I delete them.  
>>>>>>> Does anyone know what I could’ve accidentally toggled on that I need to 
>>>>>>> fix?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>>>>> at

Re: More strange Mac mail behaviors.

[Jessica Moss]

This was happening regardless of which mailbox I had selected.  I had to do 
some playing around with mailbox behaviors, something I’ve never attempted to 
do anything with, and eventually found that my option to have my deleted 
messages moved to option somehow ended up being switched to “none.”  So after 
switching it back to “gmail/trash,” everything is now working again.  I’m just 
really baffled as to how this happened, since I don’t play with those settings, 
any more than I would on my Amazon fire tv, but now one of ours is deciding 
even after I turn Voiceview off, to turn it back on all by itself, and 
sometimes will do this repeatedly, so I’ve stopped trying to figure out why 
this is.

> On Jul 6, 2023, at 9:52 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> 1. What  mailbox do you have selected.
> 2. If you type command-shift-F (Mailbox search) is there anything in that 
> text entry field (if so clear it out)
> 3. Look for items about filter in the view menu of your mail applicaiton. I 
> believe command-option-L toggles filters on and off, but I might be off in 
> what the second modifier key is.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 9:32 PM Jessica Moss  <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Ok, so after doing a lot of digging, and having to do a lot of exploring 
>> with mailbox behaviors, which I’m not familiar with, I found out my setting 
>> to move deleted messages to trash folder somehow got switched to “none” 
>> which makes no sense.  So after switching it back to gmail/trash, things 
>> seem to finally be fixed.
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:57 PM, Herbie Allen >> <mailto:herbie.al...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Did you do anything in the Mail account settings?
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 14:47, Jessica Moss >>> <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> This happens regardless of whether I restart mail or not.  Also, How do I 
>>>> check to see if I have messages marked as deleted or not?
>>>>   I wouldn’t think anything has changed, since I honestly don’t know how 
>>>> to/have any desire to change how messages behave for this vary reason, so 
>>>> I’m really stumped on how this happened.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:29 PM, matthew dyer >>>> <mailto:ilovecountrymusic...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Whzat happens if you restart the mail app.  Also, do you have mail set to 
>>>>> mark messages as deleted?  This is very strange.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Matthew
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:18 PM, 'Dan Eickmeier' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>> >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> OH wow, that’s weird, Jess.  Have never had anything like that happen in 
>>>>>> mail where you can’t delete all messages, and having messages come back 
>>>>>> that you delete.  That’s interesting.  
>>>>>> Dan Eickmeier. Beamsville, Ontario Canada.  Amateur radio callsign: 
>>>>>> VA3ETS
>>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/va3ets Mastodon: @va3ets@mstdn.social 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 10:56 AM, Jessica Moss >>>>>> <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Honestly, I have no idea, I just no that at this point, something has 
>>>>>>> somehow happened where all my deleted messages are now coming back as 
>>>>>>> soon as I delete them, and command+shift+delete no longer erases 
>>>>>>> everything like it used to on either of my mailboxes.  This just 
>>>>>>> randomly happened yesterday, without me having done anything to my 
>>>>>>> settings, so have no idea what needs to be fixed, let alone what could 
>>>>>>> have caused it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Jonathan C. Cohn >>>>>>> <mailto:jon.c.c...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Are you perhaps, confusing filters and searches? If you do a search 
>>>>>>>> within all mail that it will look at every folder, including your 
>>>>>>>> deleted folder in some cases.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>

Re: More strange Mac mail behaviors.

[Jessica Moss]

Ok, so after doing a lot of digging, and having to do a lot of exploring with 
mailbox behaviors, which I’m not familiar with, I found out my setting to move 
deleted messages to trash folder somehow got switched to “none” which makes no 
sense.  So after switching it back to gmail/trash, things seem to finally be 
fixed.

> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:57 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Did you do anything in the Mail account settings?
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 14:47, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> This happens regardless of whether I restart mail or not.  Also, How do I 
>> check to see if I have messages marked as deleted or not?
>>   I wouldn’t think anything has changed, since I honestly don’t know how 
>> to/have any desire to change how messages behave for this vary reason, so 
>> I’m really stumped on how this happened.
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:29 PM, matthew dyer  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Whzat happens if you restart the mail app.  Also, do you have mail set to 
>>> mark messages as deleted?  This is very strange.
>>> 
>>> Matthew
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:18 PM, 'Dan Eickmeier' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> OH wow, that’s weird, Jess.  Have never had anything like that happen in 
>>>> mail where you can’t delete all messages, and having messages come back 
>>>> that you delete.  That’s interesting.  
>>>> Dan Eickmeier. Beamsville, Ontario Canada.  Amateur radio callsign: VA3ETS
>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/va3ets Mastodon: @va3ets@mstdn.social 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 10:56 AM, Jessica Moss  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Honestly, I have no idea, I just no that at this point, something has 
>>>>> somehow happened where all my deleted messages are now coming back as 
>>>>> soon as I delete them, and command+shift+delete no longer erases 
>>>>> everything like it used to on either of my mailboxes.  This just randomly 
>>>>> happened yesterday, without me having done anything to my settings, so 
>>>>> have no idea what needs to be fixed, let alone what could have caused it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Jonathan C. Cohn  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Are you perhaps, confusing filters and searches? If you do a search 
>>>>>> within all mail that it will look at every folder, including your 
>>>>>> deleted folder in some cases.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 9:03 AM, Jessica Moss  
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I just noticed yesterday, and have no idea what brought this on, that 
>>>>>>> when I launched my Apple mail, everything in my personal mailbox looked 
>>>>>>> like it it had completely been erased.  However, everything within my 
>>>>>>> work e-mailbox, which is also gmail-based, was still in tact.
>>>>>>> Then next thing I knew, Voiceover kept saying something about filters, 
>>>>>>> upon mail being launched, which I never mess with, but figured I’d 
>>>>>>> attempt to do so to see if I could recover them.  So after doing some 
>>>>>>> playing around to see what would take, I somehow managed to get my mail 
>>>>>>> back, but now on both sides, my erase-all command is now no longer 
>>>>>>> working, and my messages are reappearing as fast as I delete them.  
>>>>>>> Does anyone know what I could’ve accidentally toggled on that I need to 
>>>>>>> fix?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Ca

Re: More strange Mac mail behaviors.

[Jessica Moss]

So what I’ve noticed as of now, is this erase all option is not only grade out 
on all my mailboxes, but in order to empty the messages I did find in my trash 
folder, I had to simply select all of them, and delete them all that way.  Upon 
doing this, I attempted to delete these same messages that keep reappearing in 
my inbox over and over, only to find my trash folder completely empty, so I 
unfortunately have no idea what has gotten changed within my settings that I 
need to fix that’s keeping my messages from deleting.  

> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:57 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Did you do anything in the Mail account settings?
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 14:47, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> This happens regardless of whether I restart mail or not.  Also, How do I 
>> check to see if I have messages marked as deleted or not?
>>   I wouldn’t think anything has changed, since I honestly don’t know how 
>> to/have any desire to change how messages behave for this vary reason, so 
>> I’m really stumped on how this happened.
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:29 PM, matthew dyer  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Whzat happens if you restart the mail app.  Also, do you have mail set to 
>>> mark messages as deleted?  This is very strange.
>>> 
>>> Matthew
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:18 PM, 'Dan Eickmeier' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> OH wow, that’s weird, Jess.  Have never had anything like that happen in 
>>>> mail where you can’t delete all messages, and having messages come back 
>>>> that you delete.  That’s interesting.  
>>>> Dan Eickmeier. Beamsville, Ontario Canada.  Amateur radio callsign: VA3ETS
>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/va3ets Mastodon: @va3ets@mstdn.social 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 10:56 AM, Jessica Moss  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Honestly, I have no idea, I just no that at this point, something has 
>>>>> somehow happened where all my deleted messages are now coming back as 
>>>>> soon as I delete them, and command+shift+delete no longer erases 
>>>>> everything like it used to on either of my mailboxes.  This just randomly 
>>>>> happened yesterday, without me having done anything to my settings, so 
>>>>> have no idea what needs to be fixed, let alone what could have caused it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Jonathan C. Cohn  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Are you perhaps, confusing filters and searches? If you do a search 
>>>>>> within all mail that it will look at every folder, including your 
>>>>>> deleted folder in some cases.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 9:03 AM, Jessica Moss  
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I just noticed yesterday, and have no idea what brought this on, that 
>>>>>>> when I launched my Apple mail, everything in my personal mailbox looked 
>>>>>>> like it it had completely been erased.  However, everything within my 
>>>>>>> work e-mailbox, which is also gmail-based, was still in tact.
>>>>>>> Then next thing I knew, Voiceover kept saying something about filters, 
>>>>>>> upon mail being launched, which I never mess with, but figured I’d 
>>>>>>> attempt to do so to see if I could recover them.  So after doing some 
>>>>>>> playing around to see what would take, I somehow managed to get my mail 
>>>>>>> back, but now on both sides, my erase-all command is now no longer 
>>>>>>> working, and my messages are reappearing as fast as I delete them.  
>>>>>>> Does anyone know what I could’ve accidentally toggled on that I need to 
>>>>>>> fix?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>>>>>> itself.
>

Re: More strange Mac mail behaviors.

[Jessica Moss]

I have not, that’s why I’m so shocked this has happened.

> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:57 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> Did you do anything in the Mail account settings?
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 14:47, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> This happens regardless of whether I restart mail or not.  Also, How do I 
>> check to see if I have messages marked as deleted or not?
>>   I wouldn’t think anything has changed, since I honestly don’t know how 
>> to/have any desire to change how messages behave for this vary reason, so 
>> I’m really stumped on how this happened.
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:29 PM, matthew dyer  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Whzat happens if you restart the mail app.  Also, do you have mail set to 
>>> mark messages as deleted?  This is very strange.
>>> 
>>> Matthew
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:18 PM, 'Dan Eickmeier' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> OH wow, that’s weird, Jess.  Have never had anything like that happen in 
>>>> mail where you can’t delete all messages, and having messages come back 
>>>> that you delete.  That’s interesting.  
>>>> Dan Eickmeier. Beamsville, Ontario Canada.  Amateur radio callsign: VA3ETS
>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/va3ets Mastodon: @va3ets@mstdn.social 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 10:56 AM, Jessica Moss  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Honestly, I have no idea, I just no that at this point, something has 
>>>>> somehow happened where all my deleted messages are now coming back as 
>>>>> soon as I delete them, and command+shift+delete no longer erases 
>>>>> everything like it used to on either of my mailboxes.  This just randomly 
>>>>> happened yesterday, without me having done anything to my settings, so 
>>>>> have no idea what needs to be fixed, let alone what could have caused it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Jonathan C. Cohn  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Are you perhaps, confusing filters and searches? If you do a search 
>>>>>> within all mail that it will look at every folder, including your 
>>>>>> deleted folder in some cases.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 9:03 AM, Jessica Moss  
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I just noticed yesterday, and have no idea what brought this on, that 
>>>>>>> when I launched my Apple mail, everything in my personal mailbox looked 
>>>>>>> like it it had completely been erased.  However, everything within my 
>>>>>>> work e-mailbox, which is also gmail-based, was still in tact.
>>>>>>> Then next thing I knew, Voiceover kept saying something about filters, 
>>>>>>> upon mail being launched, which I never mess with, but figured I’d 
>>>>>>> attempt to do so to see if I could recover them.  So after doing some 
>>>>>>> playing around to see what would take, I somehow managed to get my mail 
>>>>>>> back, but now on both sides, my erase-all command is now no longer 
>>>>>>> working, and my messages are reappearing as fast as I delete them.  
>>>>>>> Does anyone know what I could’ve accidentally toggled on that I need to 
>>>>>>> fix?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>>>>>> Visionaries list.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list 
>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>>>>>>> at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara 
>>>>>>> at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@g

Re: More strange Mac mail behaviors.

[Jessica Moss]

This happens regardless of whether I restart mail or not.  Also, How do I check 
to see if I have messages marked as deleted or not?
  I wouldn’t think anything has changed, since I honestly don’t know how 
to/have any desire to change how messages behave for this vary reason, so I’m 
really stumped on how this happened.

> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:29 PM, matthew dyer  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Whzat happens if you restart the mail app.  Also, do you have mail set to 
> mark messages as deleted?  This is very strange.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 3:18 PM, 'Dan Eickmeier' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> OH wow, that’s weird, Jess.  Have never had anything like that happen in 
>> mail where you can’t delete all messages, and having messages come back that 
>> you delete.  That’s interesting.  
>> Dan Eickmeier. Beamsville, Ontario Canada.  Amateur radio callsign: VA3ETS
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/va3ets Mastodon: @va3ets@mstdn.social 
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 10:56 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Honestly, I have no idea, I just no that at this point, something has 
>>> somehow happened where all my deleted messages are now coming back as soon 
>>> as I delete them, and command+shift+delete no longer erases everything like 
>>> it used to on either of my mailboxes.  This just randomly happened 
>>> yesterday, without me having done anything to my settings, so have no idea 
>>> what needs to be fixed, let alone what could have caused it.
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Are you perhaps, confusing filters and searches? If you do a search within 
>>>> all mail that it will look at every folder, including your deleted folder 
>>>> in some cases.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 9:03 AM, Jessica Moss  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I just noticed yesterday, and have no idea what brought this on, that 
>>>>> when I launched my Apple mail, everything in my personal mailbox looked 
>>>>> like it it had completely been erased.  However, everything within my 
>>>>> work e-mailbox, which is also gmail-based, was still in tact.
>>>>> Then next thing I knew, Voiceover kept saying something about filters, 
>>>>> upon mail being launched, which I never mess with, but figured I’d 
>>>>> attempt to do so to see if I could recover them.  So after doing some 
>>>>> playing around to see what would take, I somehow managed to get my mail 
>>>>> back, but now on both sides, my erase-all command is now no longer 
>>>>> working, and my messages are reappearing as fast as I delete them.  Does 
>>>>> anyone know what I could’ve accidentally toggled on that I need to fix?
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
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Re: More strange Mac mail behaviors.

[Jessica Moss]

Honestly, I have no idea, I just no that at this point, something has somehow 
happened where all my deleted messages are now coming back as soon as I delete 
them, and command+shift+delete no longer erases everything like it used to on 
either of my mailboxes.  This just randomly happened yesterday, without me 
having done anything to my settings, so have no idea what needs to be fixed, 
let alone what could have caused it.

> On Jul 6, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:
> 
> Are you perhaps, confusing filters and searches? If you do a search within 
> all mail that it will look at every folder, including your deleted folder in 
> some cases.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2023, at 9:03 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> I just noticed yesterday, and have no idea what brought this on, that when 
>> I launched my Apple mail, everything in my personal mailbox looked like it 
>> it had completely been erased.  However, everything within my work 
>> e-mailbox, which is also gmail-based, was still in tact.
>> Then next thing I knew, Voiceover kept saying something about filters, upon 
>> mail being launched, which I never mess with, but figured I’d attempt to do 
>> so to see if I could recover them.  So after doing some playing around to 
>> see what would take, I somehow managed to get my mail back, but now on both 
>> sides, my erase-all command is now no longer working, and my messages are 
>> reappearing as fast as I delete them.  Does anyone know what I could’ve 
>> accidentally toggled on that I need to fix?
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
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More strange Mac mail behaviors.

[Jessica Moss]

I just noticed yesterday, and have no idea what brought this on, that when I 
launched my Apple mail, everything in my personal mailbox looked like it it had 
completely been erased.  However, everything within my work e-mailbox, which is 
also gmail-based, was still in tact.
  Then next thing I knew, Voiceover kept saying something about filters, upon 
mail being launched, which I never mess with, but figured I’d attempt to do so 
to see if I could recover them.  So after doing some playing around to see what 
would take, I somehow managed to get my mail back, but now on both sides, my 
erase-all command is now no longer working, and my messages are reappearing as 
fast as I delete them.  Does anyone know what I could’ve accidentally toggled 
on that I need to fix?

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Re: Strange behavior when downloading e-mail attachments.

[Jessica Moss]

That’s what I’ve been doing.  I just find it interesting that this suddenly 
just started happening.
  First I got an e-mail with my daughter’s latest progress report from her 
school that was riddled with them, and she kept seeing the school’s logo, and 
everything but the progress report.
  Then it started happening with all my work e-mails.  Should there be an 
option somewhere to stop this, or is it just something that unfortunately 
creeps up from time to time that we all have to live with?

> On Jun 28, 2023, at 5:14 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> This is nothing new. I've seen this behavior happening with attachments for a 
> long time.
> The graphics within a signature area are attachments, and are also downloaded 
> when you select for all attachments to be downloaded. This is expected and 
> normal behavior.
> I suggest you go to your downloads folder, and simply delete the unwanted 
> downloaded attachments from the signature area.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Jun 28, 2023, at 16:00, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> I’ve just recently noticed within the last month or so, that if anyone sends 
> me e-mail attachments, and also has images imbedded within their signatures, 
> all these images get downloaded right along with the attachment I’m being 
> sent.  This didn’t used to be an issue, and I haven’t voluntarily changed any 
> of my settings, so someone at work suggested that something must be happening 
> on Google’s end that could be doing this, after we ended up doing a team 
> viewer session, 2 of my coworkers sent me PDF’s, and found out what was also 
> being sent along with them were their headshots, our company’s logo, and 
> their imbedded e-mail signatures.
> Is anyone else noticing this?
> 
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Strange behavior when downloading e-mail attachments.

[Jessica Moss]

I’ve just recently noticed within the last month or so, that if anyone sends me 
e-mail attachments, and also has images imbedded within their signatures, all 
these images get downloaded right along with the attachment I’m being sent.  
This didn’t used to be an issue, and I haven’t voluntarily changed any of my 
settings, so someone at work suggested that something must be happening on 
Google’s end that could be doing this, after we ended up doing a team viewer 
session, 2 of my coworkers sent me PDF’s, and found out what was also being 
sent along with them were their headshots, our company’s logo, and their 
imbedded e-mail signatures.
  Is anyone else noticing this?

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Re: Another Ventura question, emails I have sent appearing in my Inbox?

[Jessica Moss]

Some of them on my end are.

> On Jun 15, 2023, at 5:26 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:
> 
> Are these messages where you asked a question and never got a response? That 
> could explain the followup flagging.
> I 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 15, 2023, at 5:09 PM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah, mine have my name, as the sender and receiver, and just contain the 
>> original message.  Just FYI, you can turn off the follow-up feature.  Just 
>> go into Mail, Settings, and there’s a checkbox under General.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Jun 15, 2023, at 10:40 AM, Jessica Moss  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> When I get those sometimes, It will have my name on them, and “followup” in 
>>> the subject line, but contain nothing more than the original e-mail in the 
>>> message body.
>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 15, 2023, at 11:36 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Interesting.  I’ve deleted it already, but I looked next time. Not 
>>>> familiar with the follow-up feature, guess I’ll have to check that out. 
>>>> Thanks for letting us know this is a bug, Brad.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 15, 2023, at 10:25 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is the follow up feature, and it is a bug.
>>>>> If you open the email, and look above the message header, you will see a 
>>>>> banner that tells you this is a message that should be followed up.
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Brad -
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 15, 2023, at 09:57, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hmm. No, I don’t see anything that says follow-up. Very strange. Ventura 
>>>>> has certainly been a mixed bag. It often seems snappier, but Safari, and 
>>>>> all the Safari not responding messages are about to make me throw my Mac 
>>>>> at something. (Sigh* And I’m not loving it when VO suddenly starts 
>>>>> shouting.  
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Donna
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 15, 2023, at 9:52 AM, Jessica Moss  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Are they showing up with the line “follow up?” This is happening on my 
>>>>>> end as well, and I always found that interesting, since all that 
>>>>>> happens, is the original e-mail just shows back up.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jun 15, 2023, at 10:48 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi again, all,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ever since upgrading to Ventura, I am finding that emails I have sent 
>>>>>>> appear in my Inbox several days later, as though they had been sent to 
>>>>>>> me. It doesn’t happen with all messages, and so far, I haven’t been 
>>>>>>> able to identify a pattern. Anyone know what’s going on here?
>>>>>>> TIA,
>>>>>>> Donna
>>>>>>> 
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Re: Another Ventura question, emails I have sent appearing in my Inbox?

[Jessica Moss]

When I get those sometimes, It will have my name on them, and “followup” in the 
subject line, but contain nothing more than the original e-mail in the message 
body.

> On Jun 15, 2023, at 11:36 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Interesting.  I’ve deleted it already, but I looked next time. Not familiar 
> with the follow-up feature, guess I’ll have to check that out. Thanks for 
> letting us know this is a bug, Brad.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Jun 15, 2023, at 10:25 AM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>> 
>> It is the follow up feature, and it is a bug.
>> If you open the email, and look above the message header, you will see a 
>> banner that tells you this is a message that should be followed up.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> On Jun 15, 2023, at 09:57, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hmm. No, I don’t see anything that says follow-up. Very strange. Ventura 
>> has certainly been a mixed bag. It often seems snappier, but Safari, and all 
>> the Safari not responding messages are about to make me throw my Mac at 
>> something. (Sigh* And I’m not loving it when VO suddenly starts shouting.  
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 15, 2023, at 9:52 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Are they showing up with the line “follow up?” This is happening on my end 
>>> as well, and I always found that interesting, since all that happens, is 
>>> the original e-mail just shows back up.
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 15, 2023, at 10:48 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi again, all,
>>>> 
>>>> Ever since upgrading to Ventura, I am finding that emails I have sent 
>>>> appear in my Inbox several days later, as though they had been sent to me. 
>>>> It doesn’t happen with all messages, and so far, I haven’t been able to 
>>>> identify a pattern. Anyone know what’s going on here?
>>>> TIA,
>>>> Donna
>>>> 
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>>> 
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Re: Another Ventura question, emails I have sent appearing in my Inbox?

[Jessica Moss]

Are they showing up with the line “follow up?” This is happening on my end as 
well, and I always found that interesting, since all that happens, is the 
original e-mail just shows back up.

> On Jun 15, 2023, at 10:48 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi again, all,
> 
> Ever since upgrading to Ventura, I am finding that emails I have sent appear 
> in my Inbox several days later, as though they had been sent to me. It 
> doesn’t happen with all messages, and so far, I haven’t been able to identify 
> a pattern. Anyone know what’s going on here?
> TIA,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Getting in touch with members of the appleVis community.

[Jessica Moss]

I’ve clicked on show notes for this podcast, and I’m not seeing where anyone’s 
commented.  So what I’m wanting to do that maybe someone on here can help with, 
is build on his idea where he was using the app, asking it what AppleVis was, 
then telling it to create multiple choice questions about AppleVis, and if 
possible, see if this app is capable of taking things a step further and 
creating multiple choice questions with either selectable radio buttons, or 
expandable buttons.  However, I don’t know the code to do this as of yet, so I 
imagine that would be a complex task to tell this app to do even if it were, 
unless someone knows something I don’t.

> On Jun 12, 2023, at 10:25 AM, 'Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> You could post the question at applevis.com <http://applevis.com/>, where 
> there may be multiple people who can answer.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  on 
> behalf of Jessica Moss 
> Date: Monday, June 12, 2023 at 10:06
> To: 'Jim Fettgather' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Getting in touch with members of the appleVis community.
> 
> I just recently listened to Thomas Domville’s podcast on the new OpenAI app, 
> and had a question I wanted to ask him regarding that.  However, there are of 
> course, multiple people on Facebook by that name, so finding him in order to 
> do that hasn’t been easy.
>   Can someone please point me in the right direction in order to contact him?
> 
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Getting in touch with members of the appleVis community.

[Jessica Moss]

I just recently listened to Thomas Domville’s podcast on the new OpenAI app, 
and had a question I wanted to ask him regarding that.  However, there are of 
course, multiple people on Facebook by that name, so finding him in order to do 
that hasn’t been easy.
  Can someone please point me in the right direction in order to contact him?

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Re: Does anyone know why voiceover voice volume fluctuates when using a Bluetooth speaker or CarPlay?

[Jessica Moss]

Since reading this thread, I’ve had a similar incident happen with my AirPods, 
when trying to view their battery status.  I’ll go into system settings, then 
scroll through the various options, and if I scroll up too far and hit 
“notifications” Voiceover’s volume suddenly maxes, but when I scroll back down, 
it goes back down to the setting I had it on.

> On May 11, 2023, at 7:51 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> I experience this on my Bose speaker and like I said, I have had this on 
> AirPlay as well, though I think on that at least I can adjust the VO volume.
> 
>> On May 11, 2023, at 18:11, 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Candie,
>>  Is this only on CarPlay or Bluetooth speakers in general?
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
>> will make violent revolution inevitable."
>> --John F. Kennedy
>> My e-Mail:
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 5/11/2023 1:15 PM, 'Candie Bridges' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Hi, Donna.
>>> I also experience this. I would love to find a fix, as I really don’t like 
>>> loud screen reader voices, especially on my devices.
>>> Audio ducking is off on my phone, but it still gets very loud, then drops, 
>>> then loud again, as you wrote. I’ve tried even turning the VoiceOver volume 
>>> down to 5%, with no change.
>>> Sorry I can’t offer any solution; looks like we’re stuck with this for now.
>>> I agree with Herbie’s response; it wants to be extremely annoying. Smiles. 
>>> It certainly succeeds in that.
>>> Regards,
>>> Candie
 On 11 May 2023, at 19:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 I am currently pairing my phone with a Bluetooth speaker, because our 
 Internet is out, and I’m having a problem that I have frequently 
 encountered when using CarPlay. If I try to use the phone while music is 
 playing, the voice volume of voiceover is very erratic. It’s normal and 
 then it jumps up and is really loud and then it jumps back down and it’s 
 normal and it alternates probably every few seconds. Does anyone know why 
 this happens? And more importantly, does anybody know a way to stop it 
 from happening?
 Thanks,
 Donna
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
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Re: Inaccessible Twitter app

[Jessica Moss]

Sounds like the same mess Facebook has done in regard to apps like Trillion.

> On Apr 29, 2023, at 1:33 PM, 'Jason J.G. White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2023, at 13:25, Herbie Allen  wrote:
>> 
>> Would the iPad Twitter App work on the M1 Mac? If so, then I wonder if 
>> Spaces would work on the mac that way? They have also come out with a 
>> similar type app for Mastodon.
> Based on reports that I’ve heard elsewhere, apparently Twitter has recently 
> tightened its policy regarding access to its API by third-party applications, 
> most of which consequently no longer work.
> I have a long dormant Twitter account that I’ve almost never used. I’m not 
> tempted to start using it now.
> 
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Re: Affordable Braille display that works with voiceover

[Jessica Moss]

I would think if their primary market was school systems, that it would be 
absolutely necessary, since in a setting like that, it would be more prone to 
being dropped, and considering the fact that it costs a lot to manufacture 
them, dropping one is the last thing anyone would want to be doing.

> On Apr 26, 2023, at 9:37 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> When I travel with the Mantis, I just put it in the case with my Mac.  
> Because it is so thin, it fits very nicely.  But I do agree, a case would 
> have been a good thing.  Though I think APH was trying to keep the price 
> down, and also that their primary market was school systems, so perhaps they 
> thought it wouldn’t be necessary.
> Donna
> Donna
> 
>> On Apr 26, 2023, at 8:18 AM, lenron brown  wrote:
>> 
>> braille display prices still drive me nuts. Got the mantis here and
>> was surprised the thing didn't come with the leather case you can
>> close. The brailliant bi 40x is also pretty nice, but it seems to have
>> issues with the bluetooth staying connected sometimes.
>> 
>> On 4/26/23, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries
>>  wrote:
>>> Andrew,
>>> 
>>> One comment about the mantis.  I bought one expecting it would be my only
>>> braille display, and ended up buying another one.  I found that the
>>> placement of the thumb keys on the Mantis causes my hands to cramp.  I
>>> couldn’t read on it for more than about five minutes before my hands started
>>> to hurt.  So I bought a Brailliant.  The Brailliant is now the display I use
>>> for reading, and the Mantis is what I use when I want a qwerty keyboard for
>>> writing.  Both are good displays, but I would encourage you to find one that
>>> is comfortable for your hands, if you do much braille reading.  When I
>>> purchased it, the Brailliant was $3,495.
>>> Best,
>>> Donna
>>> 
 On Apr 26, 2023, at 6:32 AM, Joe Hodge  wrote:
 
 The Orbit 20 or 40 are priced afordibley. I think the 20 is around 600 and
 the 40 is at 1600. I think there good displays. They do make a little
 noise but for where I use braille mainly at home the Orbit does the job
 pretty well. Aph has the Mantis which I use almost every day which is a
 qwerty keyboard 40 cell option but is 2895 dollars at this time.
 
 - Original Message -
 From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries
 
 Date: Wednesday, April 26, 2023 02:13 AM
 To: "'E.T.' via MacVisionaries" 
 Subject: Affordable Braille display that works with voiceover
 
 Hi,
 My Brailliant bi 32 I bought second-hand years ago appears to have died.
 Would you mind giving me some recommendations on an affordable Braille
 display that plays nicely with voiceover?
 Many thanks
 Andrew
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Re: Running Windows on Apple Silicon MBP

[Jessica Moss]

To my knowledge, parallels is the only way to do this.  However, I’ve never 
attempted to do this, so I’m not sure as to how accessible running parallels is.

> On Apr 26, 2023, at 8:10 AM, Mohamed Fayed  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Hope my mail finds you well,
> 
> What is the recommended method for running windows 10 or 11 on Apple Silicon 
> with Mac OS 13? 
> 
> I may run either windows 10 or 11. What would be the best option? Or actually 
> what are the available options in this regards?
> 
> How software looks like ?
> 
> Thank you so much, 
> 
> Mohamed E. Fayed  
> 
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Re: Remote gaming on the Mac.

[Jessica Moss]

Ok, I’m not sure this will be of any use, but basically what I’m wanting to do, 
if this is even possible, is attempt to play the retro games I used to play 
with the neighborhood kids I grew up with, like Super Mario World, over the 
computer with someone else.  I know to an extent, this can be done with team 
viewer, in the sense that someone else would have access to my screen, but 
that’s where things would get messy.
  The person on the other end wouldn’t have audio, and also would have total 
control of my screen the whole time, so I was hoping to find something that 
would allow each of us to share audio, but have separate turns at the same 
time.  Is this a possibility?

> On Apr 11, 2023, at 6:05 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> VOCR is an app that will ocr your screen. As to the differences, this is not 
> a technical detail as I have not used TeamViewer, but RIm gives you access to 
> someone else's computer computer including there screen reader. It’s my 
> understanding that the Mac version works differently than Windows in that it 
> interprets the screen reader through VO without you hearing it directly. If 
> you have ever used NVDA on the phone, then it works the same way as RIM is 
> supposed too.
> 
>> On Apr 11, 2023, at 10:32, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> What’s VOCR?  As for Rim, how does that differ from something like 
>> TeamViewer?
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 11, 2023, at 11:15 AM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> You’re probably not going to have any good luck with this, but I wonder if 
>>> something like VOcr might work? I The only accessible remote option I know 
>>> of for the Mac is RIM, but I think that is in beta still for the Mac. I 
>>> tried  a remote app once to see if I could access a cloud based Pc, and no 
>>> luck.
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 11, 2023, at 06:23, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve been looking into how to play games remotely on my Mac, and found out 
>>>> about a server called Parsec that apparently will let me do just that.  
>>>> However, after downloading and installing it, Voiceover reads nothing on 
>>>> my screen, so I can’t figure out how to finish setting it up.
>>>> Has anyone else had any luck with this?
>>>> 
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Re: Remote gaming on the Mac.

[Jessica Moss]

What’s VOCR?  As for Rim, how does that differ from something like TeamViewer?


> On Apr 11, 2023, at 11:15 AM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> You’re probably not going to have any good luck with this, but I wonder if 
> something like VOcr might work? I The only accessible remote option I know of 
> for the Mac is RIM, but I think that is in beta still for the Mac. I tried  a 
> remote app once to see if I could access a cloud based Pc, and no luck.
> 
>> On Apr 11, 2023, at 06:23, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve been looking into how to play games remotely on my Mac, and found out 
>> about a server called Parsec that apparently will let me do just that.  
>> However, after downloading and installing it, Voiceover reads nothing on my 
>> screen, so I can’t figure out how to finish setting it up.
>> Has anyone else had any luck with this?
>> 
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Remote gaming on the Mac.

[Jessica Moss]

I’ve been looking into how to play games remotely on my Mac, and found out 
about a server called Parsec that apparently will let me do just that.  
However, after downloading and installing it, Voiceover reads nothing on my 
screen, so I can’t figure out how to finish setting it up.
  Has anyone else had any luck with this?

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Re: VO f7

[Jessica Moss]

I am, so I’m surprised it’s not doing anything for me.

> On Mar 22, 2023, at 6:23 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> It should just work as long as you are running macOS Ventura.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Mar 22, 2023, at 13:50, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> Is it something you have to enable?  I’ve just tried it on my end, and it’s 
> not doing anything.
> 
>> On Mar 22, 2023, at 2:30 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
>> 
>> His command is new in Ventura.
>> 
>> - Brad -
>> 
>> On Mar 22, 2023, at 13:06, Traci Duncan  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all, I’ve been a Mac user for a while now, and I’ve never noticed this 
>> Voiceover command. VO f7. Hit it once: reads out time and date, twice: 
>> battery level, third time: wifi network and signal strength.
>> 
>> Pretty nifty.
>> 
>> HTH,
>> Traci
>> 
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&

Re: VO f7

[Jessica Moss]

Is it something you have to enable?  I’ve just tried it on my end, and it’s not 
doing anything.

> On Mar 22, 2023, at 2:30 PM, Brad Snyder  wrote:
> 
> His command is new in Ventura.
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> On Mar 22, 2023, at 13:06, Traci Duncan  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, I’ve been a Mac user for a while now, and I’ve never noticed this 
> Voiceover command. VO f7. Hit it once: reads out time and date, twice: 
> battery level, third time: wifi network and signal strength.
> 
> Pretty nifty.
> 
> HTH,
> Traci
> 
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Re: Sound is always loud on my AirPods when connected to Mac.

[Jessica Moss]

That’s interesting, I’ve only managed to perform a double-tap on each one, that 
I had to reprogram to make them skip forward/backward, and neither of mine make 
noise when doing so.
  I haven’t been brave enough to try to talk on them yet, so can’t say anything 
in regard to that.  In regard to the sensor, I’m assuming, at least with mine, 
there’s a section at the top that feels like a tiny groove.
  I’ve swiped that any number of times, and unfortunately, the volume never 
seems to change.

> On Mar 18, 2023, at 3:46 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> Yes, you can adjust the sound on the AIRPODS Pro 2 with this gesture. If you 
> feel the stem of the AirPods there is an area that is slightly flattened. It 
> has the following function
> 1. Single tap Play/Pause / answer  / hang up 
> 2. Double tap Skip forward usually to next item you are listening to. 
> 3. Triple tap skip back 
> 4. Swipe up or down adjust volume. 
> 
> 
> The taps produce a clicking sound in the ear and the swipes a soft beep.
> 
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 18, 2023, at 3:34 PM, Jessica Moss > <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> That’s what I thought.  That’s what I eventually had to end up doing as 
>> well, since nothing else worked.
>>  Supposedly, according to an article I’ve found, you’re supposed to be able 
>> to adjust the volume of the AirPods themselves by putting your thumb on the 
>> stems, and swiping up or down from the sensors, but I’ve never been able to 
>> make that work.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 18, 2023, at 12:08 PM, christopher moore >> <mailto:chris.w...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Jessica,
>>> I use the f11 and f112 keys to adjust the volume.
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 14, 2023, at 4:29 PM, Jessica Moss >>> <mailto:junglebookfa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve just connected my AirPods Second Generation to my M1 Mac, and the 
>>>> sound is blaring loud, no matter how much I decrease my output volume.
>>>> I’ve never had this problem on my iPhone, although I’ve never found a way 
>>>> to adjust the volume of the AirPods themselves independently, only by 
>>>> using the volume buttons on the phone.  Is this what I’m stuck doing on 
>>>> the Mac as well, changing the overall system volume whenever I want to 
>>>> listen to them?
>>>> 
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Re: Sound is always loud on my AirPods when connected to Mac.

[Jessica Moss]

That’s what I thought.  That’s what I eventually had to end up doing as well, 
since nothing else worked.
  Supposedly, according to an article I’ve found, you’re supposed to be able to 
adjust the volume of the AirPods themselves by putting your thumb on the stems, 
and swiping up or down from the sensors, but I’ve never been able to make that 
work.


> On Mar 18, 2023, at 12:08 PM, christopher moore  wrote:
> 
> Hello Jessica,
> I use the f11 and f112 keys to adjust the volume.
> Chris
> 
>> On Mar 14, 2023, at 4:29 PM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve just connected my AirPods Second Generation to my M1 Mac, and the sound 
>> is blaring loud, no matter how much I decrease my output volume.
>> I’ve never had this problem on my iPhone, although I’ve never found a way to 
>> adjust the volume of the AirPods themselves independently, only by using the 
>> volume buttons on the phone.  Is this what I’m stuck doing on the Mac as 
>> well, changing the overall system volume whenever I want to listen to them?
>> 
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Sound is always loud on my AirPods when connected to Mac.

[Jessica Moss]

I’ve just connected my AirPods Second Generation to my M1 Mac, and the sound is 
blaring loud, no matter how much I decrease my output volume.
  I’ve never had this problem on my iPhone, although I’ve never found a way to 
adjust the volume of the AirPods themselves independently, only by using the 
volume buttons on the phone.  Is this what I’m stuck doing on the Mac as well, 
changing the overall system volume whenever I want to listen to them?

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