Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

['Peggy' via MacVisionaries]

The Blitab has won lots of awards, I contacted them about being a tester and to 
pre-order back in February. I have sent several e-mails since, but have heard 
nothing.
Peggy and Dixie Marie

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 28, 2017, at 7:01 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:

The BliTab is the most exciting technology in my book. Unlike the Kanute, it’s 
full page can refresh instantly, and it’s very small. Unlike the similarly 
priced Orbit, it shows a lot of cells, not just 20. Unfortunately, it’s been in 
the works for a long time, but the company seems mum on details when asked, and 
their website isn’t very nice to use with screen readers. I have to wonder if 
this one will ever see the light of day. I sincerely hope it will, but who 
knows?

As to the Orbit, people were buying them at the summer conventions. APH reports 
that they can’t keep them in stock, due to the limited supply made specifically 
for conventions. They’re working on it, though, and hope to have more soon. To 
my knowledge, no dates or date ranges were given for when this might be.

> On Jul 27, 2017, at 5:51 PM, 'Peggy' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am waiting for the Blitab to come out. It is supposed to display a full 
> page of Braille and will also do graphics. The cost for the tablet is $500.00.
> Peggy and Dixie Marie
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 26, 2017, at 5:29 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> The orbit reader is coming out as I have been told that a new version has 
> been finalised and the instructions for the reader have been put in to 
> braille as my department did these instructions a couple of weeks ago.  I 
> work in the Transcription department at RNIB, (Royal National Institute of 
> Blind people) in the UK and we do most of the commercial stuff that RNIB 
> produce.
> 
> The Chairman at RNIB started this project as he told me that it was his idea. 
>  So it will come out in due course as the factory are at this moment 
> assembling the new version.
> 
> It's just a question as to when it will come out and not if.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 26 Jul 2017, at 17:55, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, I know somebody in the US who has one. She got it at one of the 
>> blindness summer conventions. They didn't have very many of them. But she 
>> definitely has one. I have not seen it yet. Not in person anyway.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 26, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> There has been so much talk on other lists about the Orbit reader that it 
>>> will come this or that month and it hasn’t come out yet.
>>> I really doubt its ever going to be released. But we’ll see.
>>> /A
>>> 
 25 juli 2017 kl. 23:05 skrev Kliphton Miller :
 
 I doubt that the expensive ones will go away.  Yes the orbit gives a 
 cheaper option, but it has been rumored to have a lot of bugs, it only 
 connects to 1 device at a time, and as long as state agencies are paying 
 for there clients to have them, they will continue to be around.  JMO
> On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what 
> that is in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on 
> the market, braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, 
>> that user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
>> Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
>> braille displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic 
>> displays and sell a thousand a year, think you could sell them cheap and 
>> make a profit? Or would a million a year be more in line?
>> 
>> I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a company 
>> does not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 7/24/2017 8:50 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>>> And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than 
>>> the blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like 
>>> them, I just think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Les,
 Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for 
 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Alex Hall]

The BliTab is the most exciting technology in my book. Unlike the Kanute, it’s 
full page can refresh instantly, and it’s very small. Unlike the similarly 
priced Orbit, it shows a lot of cells, not just 20. Unfortunately, it’s been in 
the works for a long time, but the company seems mum on details when asked, and 
their website isn’t very nice to use with screen readers. I have to wonder if 
this one will ever see the light of day. I sincerely hope it will, but who 
knows?

As to the Orbit, people were buying them at the summer conventions. APH reports 
that they can’t keep them in stock, due to the limited supply made specifically 
for conventions. They’re working on it, though, and hope to have more soon. To 
my knowledge, no dates or date ranges were given for when this might be.

> On Jul 27, 2017, at 5:51 PM, 'Peggy' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am waiting for the Blitab to come out. It is supposed to display a full 
> page of Braille and will also do graphics. The cost for the tablet is $500.00.
> Peggy and Dixie Marie
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 26, 2017, at 5:29 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> The orbit reader is coming out as I have been told that a new version has 
> been finalised and the instructions for the reader have been put in to 
> braille as my department did these instructions a couple of weeks ago.  I 
> work in the Transcription department at RNIB, (Royal National Institute of 
> Blind people) in the UK and we do most of the commercial stuff that RNIB 
> produce.
> 
> The Chairman at RNIB started this project as he told me that it was his idea. 
>  So it will come out in due course as the factory are at this moment 
> assembling the new version.
> 
> It's just a question as to when it will come out and not if.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 26 Jul 2017, at 17:55, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, I know somebody in the US who has one. She got it at one of the 
>> blindness summer conventions. They didn't have very many of them. But she 
>> definitely has one. I have not seen it yet. Not in person anyway.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 26, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> There has been so much talk on other lists about the Orbit reader that it 
>>> will come this or that month and it hasn’t come out yet.
>>> I really doubt its ever going to be released. But we’ll see.
>>> /A
>>> 
 25 juli 2017 kl. 23:05 skrev Kliphton Miller :
 
 I doubt that the expensive ones will go away.  Yes the orbit gives a 
 cheaper option, but it has been rumored to have a lot of bugs, it only 
 connects to 1 device at a time, and as long as state agencies are paying 
 for there clients to have them, they will continue to be around.  JMO
> On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what 
> that is in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on 
> the market, braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, 
>> that user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
>> Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
>> braille displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic 
>> displays and sell a thousand a year, think you could sell them cheap and 
>> make a profit? Or would a million a year be more in line?
>> 
>> I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a company 
>> does not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 7/24/2017 8:50 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>>> And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than 
>>> the blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like 
>>> them, I just think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Les,
 Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for 
 the deafblind?
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

['Peggy' via MacVisionaries]

I am waiting for the Blitab to come out. It is supposed to display a full page 
of Braille and will also do graphics. The cost for the tablet is $500.00.
Peggy and Dixie Marie

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 26, 2017, at 5:29 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

The orbit reader is coming out as I have been told that a new version has been 
finalised and the instructions for the reader have been put in to braille as my 
department did these instructions a couple of weeks ago.  I work in the 
Transcription department at RNIB, (Royal National Institute of Blind people) in 
the UK and we do most of the commercial stuff that RNIB produce.

The Chairman at RNIB started this project as he told me that it was his idea.  
So it will come out in due course as the factory are at this moment assembling 
the new version.

It's just a question as to when it will come out and not if.

Kawal.
> On 26 Jul 2017, at 17:55, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Well, I know somebody in the US who has one. She got it at one of the 
> blindness summer conventions. They didn't have very many of them. But she 
> definitely has one. I have not seen it yet. Not in person anyway.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 26, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> There has been so much talk on other lists about the Orbit reader that it 
>> will come this or that month and it hasn’t come out yet.
>> I really doubt its ever going to be released. But we’ll see.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 25 juli 2017 kl. 23:05 skrev Kliphton Miller :
>>> 
>>> I doubt that the expensive ones will go away.  Yes the orbit gives a 
>>> cheaper option, but it has been rumored to have a lot of bugs, it only 
>>> connects to 1 device at a time, and as long as state agencies are paying 
>>> for there clients to have them, they will continue to be around.  JMO
 On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what 
 that is in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on 
 the market, braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!
 
 Kawal.
> On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, that 
> user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
> Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
> braille displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic 
> displays and sell a thousand a year, think you could sell them cheap and 
> make a profit? Or would a million a year be more in line?
> 
> I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a company 
> does not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 7/24/2017 8:50 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>> And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than 
>> the blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like 
>> them, I just think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Les,
>>> Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for 
>>> the deafblind?
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 7/24/2017 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
 Hi Mary,
 
 In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The
 ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about
 $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a
 blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten > wrote:
 
> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
> blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
> varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
> And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
> Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
> braille 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Scott Granados]

Kawal, glad to hear this.  A lot of us are very skeptical as to whether it’s 
coming out or not at all so you working on the documentation is a good 
indicator that things are moving along.


> On Jul 26, 2017, at 5:29 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> The orbit reader is coming out as I have been told that a new version has 
> been finalised and the instructions for the reader have been put in to 
> braille as my department did these instructions a couple of weeks ago.  I 
> work in the Transcription department at RNIB, (Royal National Institute of 
> Blind people) in the UK and we do most of the commercial stuff that RNIB 
> produce.
> 
> The Chairman at RNIB started this project as he told me that it was his idea. 
>  So it will come out in due course as the factory are at this moment 
> assembling the new version.
> 
> It's just a question as to when it will come out and not if.
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 26 Jul 2017, at 17:55, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, I know somebody in the US who has one. She got it at one of the 
>> blindness summer conventions. They didn't have very many of them. But she 
>> definitely has one. I have not seen it yet. Not in person anyway.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 26, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> There has been so much talk on other lists about the Orbit reader that it 
>>> will come this or that month and it hasn’t come out yet.
>>> I really doubt its ever going to be released. But we’ll see.
>>> /A
>>> 
 25 juli 2017 kl. 23:05 skrev Kliphton Miller :
 
 I doubt that the expensive ones will go away.  Yes the orbit gives a 
 cheaper option, but it has been rumored to have a lot of bugs, it only 
 connects to 1 device at a time, and as long as state agencies are paying 
 for there clients to have them, they will continue to be around.  JMO
> On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what 
> that is in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on 
> the market, braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, 
>> that user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
>> Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
>> braille displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic 
>> displays and sell a thousand a year, think you could sell them cheap and 
>> make a profit? Or would a million a year be more in line?
>> 
>> I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a company 
>> does not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 7/24/2017 8:50 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>>> And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than 
>>> the blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like 
>>> them, I just think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Les,
 Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for 
 the deafblind?
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 7/24/2017 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
> Hi Mary,
> 
> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. 
> The
> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about
> $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a
> blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten  > wrote:
> 
>> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
>> blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
>> varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB 
>> stick.
>> And it also has note taking 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

The orbit reader is coming out as I have been told that a new version has been 
finalised and the instructions for the reader have been put in to braille as my 
department did these instructions a couple of weeks ago.  I work in the 
Transcription department at RNIB, (Royal National Institute of Blind people) in 
the UK and we do most of the commercial stuff that RNIB produce.

The Chairman at RNIB started this project as he told me that it was his idea.  
So it will come out in due course as the factory are at this moment assembling 
the new version.

It's just a question as to when it will come out and not if.

Kawal.
> On 26 Jul 2017, at 17:55, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Well, I know somebody in the US who has one. She got it at one of the 
> blindness summer conventions. They didn't have very many of them. But she 
> definitely has one. I have not seen it yet. Not in person anyway.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 26, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> There has been so much talk on other lists about the Orbit reader that it 
>> will come this or that month and it hasn’t come out yet.
>> I really doubt its ever going to be released. But we’ll see.
>> /A
>> 
>>> 25 juli 2017 kl. 23:05 skrev Kliphton Miller :
>>> 
>>> I doubt that the expensive ones will go away.  Yes the orbit gives a 
>>> cheaper option, but it has been rumored to have a lot of bugs, it only 
>>> connects to 1 device at a time, and as long as state agencies are paying 
>>> for there clients to have them, they will continue to be around.  JMO
 On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 
 The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what 
 that is in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on 
 the market, braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!
 
 Kawal.
> On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, that 
> user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
> Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
> braille displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic 
> displays and sell a thousand a year, think you could sell them cheap and 
> make a profit? Or would a million a year be more in line?
> 
> I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a company 
> does not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 7/24/2017 8:50 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>> And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than 
>> the blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like 
>> them, I just think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Les,
>>> Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for 
>>> the deafblind?
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 7/24/2017 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
 Hi Mary,
 
 In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The
 ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about
 $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a
 blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten > wrote:
 
> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
> blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
> varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
> And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
> Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
> braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
> support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
> list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
> word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Mary Otten]

Well, I know somebody in the US who has one. She got it at one of the blindness 
summer conventions. They didn't have very many of them. But she definitely has 
one. I have not seen it yet. Not in person anyway.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 26, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> There has been so much talk on other lists about the Orbit reader that it 
> will come this or that month and it hasn’t come out yet.
> I really doubt its ever going to be released. But we’ll see.
> /A
> 
>> 25 juli 2017 kl. 23:05 skrev Kliphton Miller :
>> 
>> I doubt that the expensive ones will go away.  Yes the orbit gives a cheaper 
>> option, but it has been rumored to have a lot of bugs, it only connects to 1 
>> device at a time, and as long as state agencies are paying for there clients 
>> to have them, they will continue to be around.  JMO
>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what that 
>>> is in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on the 
>>> market, braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
 On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, that 
 user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
 Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
 braille displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic displays 
 and sell a thousand a year, think you could sell them cheap and make a 
 profit? Or would a million a year be more in line?
 
 I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a company 
 does not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 7/24/2017 8:50 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
> And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than the 
> blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like them, I 
> just think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Les,
>> Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for 
>> the deafblind?
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 7/24/2017 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>>> Hi Mary,
>>> 
>>> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The
>>> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about
>>> $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a
>>> blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten >> > wrote:
>>> 
 If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
 blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
 varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
 And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
 Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
 braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
 support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
 list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
 word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
 does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
 the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
 then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're
 good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that?
 Mary
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
 > wrote:
 
> Hi,
> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like
> the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The
> braille is nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very
> 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
There has been so much talk on other lists about the Orbit reader that it will 
come this or that month and it hasn’t come out yet.
I really doubt its ever going to be released. But we’ll see.
/A

> 25 juli 2017 kl. 23:05 skrev Kliphton Miller :
> 
> I doubt that the expensive ones will go away.  Yes the orbit gives a cheaper 
> option, but it has been rumored to have a lot of bugs, it only connects to 1 
> device at a time, and as long as state agencies are paying for there clients 
> to have them, they will continue to be around.  JMO
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what that 
>> is in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on the 
>> market, braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!
>> 
>> Kawal.
>>> On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, that 
>>> user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
>>> Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
>>> braille displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic displays 
>>> and sell a thousand a year, think you could sell them cheap and make a 
>>> profit? Or would a million a year be more in line?
>>> 
>>> I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a company 
>>> does not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
>>> On 7/24/2017 8:50 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
 And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than the 
 blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like them, I 
 just think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Les,
> Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for the 
> deafblind?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 7/24/2017 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>> Hi Mary,
>> 
>> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The
>> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about
>> $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a
>> blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten > > wrote:
>> 
>>> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
>>> blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
>>> varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
>>> And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
>>> Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
>>> braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
>>> support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
>>> list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
>>> word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
>>> does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
>>> the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
>>> then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're
>>> good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that?
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
 Hi,
 Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like
 the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The
 braille is nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very
 well made.
 
 I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant,
 but that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to
 store files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked
 up to it.
 
 I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille
 note taker, but am not sure on that.
 
 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Alex Hall]

I've been looking into the Orbit Reader. The main things to keep in mind are 
that it's bulky, and it lacks cursor keys. Neither of these is   a deal 
breaker, especially for the price, but people should keep them in mind. 
According to its webpage, it's a good deal larger than  Refreshabraille, which 
is already not very slim. This isn't to knock the display or say no one should 
get it. I'm just saying, it's not pocket-sized, and if you like touch cursors, 
you'll be out of luck.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 26, 2017, at 07:31, Erik Burggraaf  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for this!  What a post.  I've seen promos for orbit and the new aph 
> graphics tool.  I think I'll take one of the graphic tablets and one of the 
> multi line book reading displays thanks.  Sign me up. :-D
> 
> Best,
> 
> Erik
> 
> 
> On July 25, 2017 11:16:23 PM David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Ok, there are currently four different braille display technologies being 
> developed.
> 
> The Bristol Braille technology is the tech which is closest to market. It is 
> the Orbit 20 cell Bluetooth braille display. It is a little noisy and locks 
> the braille dots into place. The tech takes between half a second and a 
> second to refresh the line of braille. I briefly played with a prototype 
> Orbit last year. On the plus side, the dots are completely firm once the 
> braille line is refreshed. The display will work with iOS and Android smart 
> phones. On the minus side, the display is a little noisy, and it has a 
> significant refresh cycle. This display has a few million dollars invested 
> into it from several blindness organisations around the world. The Orbit will 
> cost less than $500 USD when sold. Note: there are two multi-line displays 
> being developed which utilise the same technology. APH has a prototype of a 
> graphical display, and says they hope their 40 by 60 dot (not cell) display 
> will be ready next year, and should cost under $1000 USD. I heard a podcast 
> of their prototype which has a 2 second page refresh speed. More interesting 
> for me is the display's ability to allow the person to draw on it with one's 
> finger. This has many potential applications. So, though I am not interested 
> in the Orbit, I am extremely interested in this display. Bristol Braille is 
> also developing a 40 cell by several line text braille display which they are 
> stating should be released next year. This looks to be strictly a book reader 
> display, and I am not interested.
> 
> BliTab demoed a full-page braille display Android tablet at CES in January. 
> This display is based on micro-fluidics. I went by their booth several times, 
> but never found them whilst at CES. They were predicting a price point of 
> around $300 USD for their braille tablet. I requested to be placed on their 
> email list, and have not heard anything since CES. Their display technology 
> has the same speed and quietness of the current piezzo electric displays.
> 
> Dot Corp has been demoing their Dot Watch, with 4 (I believe) braille cells 
> for over a year now. They are a South Korean company. Thus far, they keep 
> moving their launch date further and further back. Apparently, they are 
> having complications with braille dot cap durability. I heard that they are 
> planning for a 40 by 60 dot (not cell) display after they get their watch 
> functioning properly. Like with APH, they are targeting under $1000 USD for 
> the braille display.
> 
> The MIT group looks interesting. Unfortunately, their braille cell technology 
> still needs to be reduced by another 25% according to an interview I heard 
> with them recently. Again, if their concept proves viable, they are looking 
> at a couple hundred dollars for a single line display.
> 
> The Bristol technology is the slowest and the noisiest display tech out 
> there, but it is actually ready for sale. All the rest of the technologies 
> are in development and/or prototype stages. I have seen many refreshable 
> braille technologies make it to prototype stages. Thus far, Bristol is the 
> only technology which has made it all the way through development and real 
> world testing. And, there have been several attempts over the past 30 years. 
> I have learned to believe the tech is coming when it actually is released 
> onto the market. Prototypes are very different from mass-produced products, 
> and real world testing wipes out most concepts. In the end, it does not 
> matter how nice and usable something is in the lab (controlled conditions). 
> It MUST stand up to the real world to be of any real use.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 26/07/2017, at 12:37, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> In the us it’s going to be about $495 I believe.  The Massachusetts 
>> Institute of Technology has a team the has developed a braille 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Simon,

I've always hated Narrator myself, so was surprised by this review.  I do know 
Microsoft is working on improving it, so might be worth checking back on it 
occasionally.

I know what you mean about NVDA.  I always said I should spend the time to 
learn it, but I just don't use a PC that much any more to make it worth the 
time.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jul 26, 2017, at 1:51 AM, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
>  
> I use narrator only if I have to.
> Jaws is my first choice when using windows and NVDA I use if I can find my 
> usb device at the time I need it.
>  
> Narator is the first option I have when I need to work on a clients machine 
> and yes Narrator is better in windows 10 but I still wouldn’t rate it highly,
> NVDA is one I really need to spend more time working with it.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Wednesday, 26 July 2017 1:12 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Refreshable Braille devices?
>  
> Hi Simon,
>  
> I don't know how you guys in NZ do it.  I know prices there are really high.
>  
> BTW, I have read stuff that says that Narrator is vastly improved and getting 
> better.  I still haven't upgraded my PC to Windows 10, so I can't confirm 
> this.  But I read one reviewer who ranked current screen-readers for Windows 
> in the following order: 1. Narrator, 2. NVDA, and 3. JAWS.  Since you have to 
> use a PC, you might want to try playing around with Narrator and NVDA and see 
> what you think.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:51 AM, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com 
> <mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
>  
> HiDonna, 
>  
> Just a note,
> The apple product is more costly for us but it includes withit the voice over 
> screen reader,
>  
> If you buy a windows computer and need a screen reader,
> Narrator is crap, NVDA is free and getting better in quality,
> Jaws is pretty dam good but pricie especially if you live like me in the far 
> and beyond.
>  
> To give you an idea of cost in nz,
> My 128GB 7+ iPhone was at purchase $1600 nz dollars,
>  
> The next phone will be even closer to 2 grand for the larger size and storage
>  
> I know when I purchased jaws it cost me $3000 but these things happen and I 
> have to pay the prices to get the product and stay up to date with technology.
>  
> I can’t just run a mac all the time as I work a lot with windows based 
> servers and powershell doesn’t work on a mac.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 July 2017 4:48 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Refreshable Braille devices?
>  
> Hi Les,
>  
> My only point about the Mac is that even without buying a top of the line 
> model, it is much more expensive than most PCs.  But we buy them, because we 
> like them.  Same thing applies here.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:28 AM, Les Kriegler <kriegle...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  
> Donna, my point about the market is that it’s small to begin with.  And now 
> you have two companies competing for market share, so the price could not 
> possibly come down.  And if you happen to have a device for trade-in, these 
> companies won’t give you fair market value.  I bought a BrailleSense and if I 
> want to trade it in, I’ll get about one third of my original price.  So we as 
> consumers are better off to sell on our own, assuming that can be 
> accomplished.  As for your comment on upgrading the Mac, unless you buy a 
> top-of-the-line unit, you won’t spend anywhere close to $4000 to $5500.  I 
> understand the market difference, I’m just referencing the facts.  If one has 
> the money to spend or has backing, then go for whatever you wish to purchase. 
>  I’m just concerned about the price of braille notetakers, that’s all.
>  
> Les
>  
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>  
> From: Donna Goodin <mailto:doniado...@me.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:19 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Refreshable Braille devices?
>  
> I agree they are expensive, but ET's points about the size of the market are 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Donna Goodin]

this was a very informative and interesting post.  Thanks as always, David.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jul 25, 2017, at 10:16 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Ok, there are currently four different braille display technologies being 
> developed.
> 
> The Bristol Braille technology is the tech which is closest to market. It is 
> the Orbit 20 cell Bluetooth braille display. It is a little noisy and locks 
> the braille dots into place. The tech takes between half a second and a 
> second to refresh the line of braille. I briefly played with a prototype 
> Orbit last year. On the plus side, the dots are completely firm once the 
> braille line is refreshed. The display will work with iOS and Android smart 
> phones. On the minus side, the display is a little noisy, and it has a 
> significant refresh cycle. This display has a few million dollars invested 
> into it from several blindness organisations around the world. The Orbit will 
> cost less than $500 USD when sold. Note: there are two multi-line displays 
> being developed which utilise the same technology. APH has a prototype of a 
> graphical display, and says they hope their 40 by 60 dot (not cell) display 
> will be ready next year, and should cost under $1000 USD. I heard a podcast 
> of their prototype which has a 2 second page refresh speed. More interesting 
> for me is the display's ability to allow the person to draw on it with one's 
> finger. This has many potential applications. So, though I am not interested 
> in the Orbit, I am extremely interested in this display. Bristol Braille is 
> also developing a 40 cell by several line text braille display which they are 
> stating should be released next year. This looks to be strictly a book reader 
> display, and I am not interested.
> 
> BliTab demoed a full-page braille display Android tablet at CES in January. 
> This display is based on micro-fluidics. I went by their booth several times, 
> but never found them whilst at CES. They were predicting a price point of 
> around $300 USD for their braille tablet. I requested to be placed on their 
> email list, and have not heard anything since CES. Their display technology 
> has the same speed and quietness of the current piezzo electric displays.
> 
> Dot Corp has been demoing their Dot Watch, with 4 (I believe) braille cells 
> for over a year now. They are a South Korean company. Thus far, they keep 
> moving their launch date further and further back. Apparently, they are 
> having complications with braille dot cap durability. I heard that they are 
> planning for a 40 by 60 dot (not cell) display after they get their watch 
> functioning properly. Like with APH, they are targeting under $1000 USD for 
> the braille display.
> 
> The MIT group looks interesting. Unfortunately, their braille cell technology 
> still needs to be reduced by another 25% according to an interview I heard 
> with them recently. Again, if their concept proves viable, they are looking 
> at a couple hundred dollars for a single line display.
> 
> The Bristol technology is the slowest and the noisiest display tech out 
> there, but it is actually ready for sale. All the rest of the technologies 
> are in development and/or prototype stages. I have seen many refreshable 
> braille technologies make it to prototype stages. Thus far, Bristol is the 
> only technology which has made it all the way through development and real 
> world testing. And, there have been several attempts over the past 30 years. 
> I have learned to believe the tech is coming when it actually is released 
> onto the market. Prototypes are very different from mass-produced products, 
> and real world testing wipes out most concepts. In the end, it does not 
> matter how nice and usable something is in the lab (controlled conditions). 
> It MUST stand up to the real world to be of any real use.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 26/07/2017, at 12:37, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> In the us it’s going to be about $495 I believe.  The Massachusetts 
>> Institute of Technology has a team the has developed a braille display that 
>> should come in around $200 US or 225 pounds.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what that 
>>> is in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on the 
>>> market, braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
 On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, that 
 user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
 Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
 braille displays have? I dare say if if 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Erik Burggraaf]

Thanks for this!  What a post.  I've seen promos for orbit and the new aph 
graphics tool.  I think I'll take one of the graphic tablets and one of the 
multi line book reading displays thanks.  Sign me up. :-D


Best,

Erik


On July 25, 2017 11:16:23 PM David Chittenden  wrote:

Ok, there are currently four different braille display technologies being 
developed.


The Bristol Braille technology is the tech which is closest to market. It 
is the Orbit 20 cell Bluetooth braille display. It is a little noisy and 
locks the braille dots into place. The tech takes between half a second and 
a second to refresh the line of braille. I briefly played with a prototype 
Orbit last year. On the plus side, the dots are completely firm once the 
braille line is refreshed. The display will work with iOS and Android smart 
phones. On the minus side, the display is a little noisy, and it has a 
significant refresh cycle. This display has a few million dollars invested 
into it from several blindness organisations around the world. The Orbit 
will cost less than $500 USD when sold. Note: there are two multi-line 
displays being developed which utilise the same technology. APH has a 
prototype of a graphical display, and says they hope their 40 by 60 dot 
(not cell) display will be ready next year, and should cost under $1000 
USD. I heard a podcast of their prototype which has a 2 second page refresh 
speed. More interesting for me is the display's ability to allow the person 
to draw on it with one's finger. This has many potential applications. So, 
though I am not interested in the Orbit, I am extremely interested in this 
display. Bristol Braille is also developing a 40 cell by several line text 
braille display which they are stating should be released next year. This 
looks to be strictly a book reader display, and I am not interested.


BliTab demoed a full-page braille display Android tablet at CES in January. 
This display is based on micro-fluidics. I went by their booth several 
times, but never found them whilst at CES. They were predicting a price 
point of around $300 USD for their braille tablet. I requested to be placed 
on their email list, and have not heard anything since CES. Their display 
technology has the same speed and quietness of the current piezzo electric 
displays.


Dot Corp has been demoing their Dot Watch, with 4 (I believe) braille cells 
for over a year now. They are a South Korean company. Thus far, they keep 
moving their launch date further and further back. Apparently, they are 
having complications with braille dot cap durability. I heard that they are 
planning for a 40 by 60 dot (not cell) display after they get their watch 
functioning properly. Like with APH, they are targeting under $1000 USD for 
the braille display.


The MIT group looks interesting. Unfortunately, their braille cell 
technology still needs to be reduced by another 25% according to an 
interview I heard with them recently. Again, if their concept proves 
viable, they are looking at a couple hundred dollars for a single line display.


The Bristol technology is the slowest and the noisiest display tech out 
there, but it is actually ready for sale. All the rest of the technologies 
are in development and/or prototype stages. I have seen many refreshable 
braille technologies make it to prototype stages. Thus far, Bristol is the 
only technology which has made it all the way through development and real 
world testing. And, there have been several attempts over the past 30 
years. I have learned to believe the tech is coming when it actually is 
released onto the market. Prototypes are very different from mass-produced 
products, and real world testing wipes out most concepts. In the end, it 
does not matter how nice and usable something is in the lab (controlled 
conditions). It MUST stand up to the real world to be of any real use.


Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone


On 26/07/2017, at 12:37, Scott Granados  wrote:

In the us it’s going to be about $495 I believe.  The Massachusetts 
Institute of Technology has a team the has developed a braille display that 
should come in around $200 US or 225 pounds.




On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:

The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what that 
is in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on the 
market, braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!


Kawal.

On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:

Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, that 
user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
braille displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic displays 
and sell a thousand a 

RE: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Donna,

I use narrator only if I have to.
Jaws is my first choice when using windows and NVDA I use if I can find my usb 
device at the time I need it.

Narator is the first option I have when I need to work on a clients machine and 
yes Narrator is better in windows 10 but I still wouldn’t rate it highly,
NVDA is one I really need to spend more time working with it.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Wednesday, 26 July 2017 1:12 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

Hi Simon,

I don't know how you guys in NZ do it.  I know prices there are really high.

BTW, I have read stuff that says that Narrator is vastly improved and getting 
better.  I still haven't upgraded my PC to Windows 10, so I can't confirm this. 
 But I read one reviewer who ranked current screen-readers for Windows in the 
following order: 1. Narrator, 2. NVDA, and 3. JAWS.  Since you have to use a 
PC, you might want to try playing around with Narrator and NVDA and see what 
you think.
Cheers,
Donna
On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:51 AM, Simon Fogarty 
<si...@blinky-net.com<mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:

HiDonna,

Just a note,
The apple product is more costly for us but it includes withit the voice over 
screen reader,

If you buy a windows computer and need a screen reader,
Narrator is crap, NVDA is free and getting better in quality,
Jaws is pretty dam good but pricie especially if you live like me in the far 
and beyond.

To give you an idea of cost in nz,
My 128GB 7+ iPhone was at purchase $1600 nz dollars,

The next phone will be even closer to 2 grand for the larger size and storage

I know when I purchased jaws it cost me $3000 but these things happen and I 
have to pay the prices to get the product and stay up to date with technology.

I can’t just run a mac all the time as I work a lot with windows based servers 
and powershell doesn’t work on a mac.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Tuesday, 25 July 2017 4:48 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

Hi Les,

My only point about the Mac is that even without buying a top of the line 
model, it is much more expensive than most PCs.  But we buy them, because we 
like them.  Same thing applies here.
Cheers,
Donna
On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:28 AM, Les Kriegler 
<kriegle...@gmail.com<mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Donna, my point about the market is that it’s small to begin with.  And now you 
have two companies competing for market share, so the price could not possibly 
come down.  And if you happen to have a device for trade-in, these companies 
won’t give you fair market value.  I bought a BrailleSense and if I want to 
trade it in, I’ll get about one third of my original price.  So we as consumers 
are better off to sell on our own, assuming that can be accomplished.  As for 
your comment on upgrading the Mac, unless you buy a top-of-the-line unit, you 
won’t spend anywhere close to $4000 to $5500.  I understand the market 
difference, I’m just referencing the facts.  If one has the money to spend or 
has backing, then go for whatever you wish to purchase.  I’m just concerned 
about the price of braille notetakers, that’s all.

Les

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Donna Goodin<mailto:doniado...@me.com>
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:19 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

I agree they are expensive, but ET's points about the size of the market are 
good ones.  What you get for your money is the option to have braille, which 
for some of us is very important.
Cheers,
Donna


On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Les Kriegler 
<kriegle...@gmail.com<mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Mary,

In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The ultra 
the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. Not worth 
it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no taking device 
is really paying premium for it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten 
<motte...@gmail.com<mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness note 
taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. That has 
the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has note taking 
capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find it more 
complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as the edge. 
They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online manual, and an 
active helpful emai

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[David Chittenden]

Ok, there are currently four different braille display technologies being 
developed.

The Bristol Braille technology is the tech which is closest to market. It is 
the Orbit 20 cell Bluetooth braille display. It is a little noisy and locks the 
braille dots into place. The tech takes between half a second and a second to 
refresh the line of braille. I briefly played with a prototype Orbit last year. 
On the plus side, the dots are completely firm once the braille line is 
refreshed. The display will work with iOS and Android smart phones. On the 
minus side, the display is a little noisy, and it has a significant refresh 
cycle. This display has a few million dollars invested into it from several 
blindness organisations around the world. The Orbit will cost less than $500 
USD when sold. Note: there are two multi-line displays being developed which 
utilise the same technology. APH has a prototype of a graphical display, and 
says they hope their 40 by 60 dot (not cell) display will be ready next year, 
and should cost under $1000 USD. I heard a podcast of their prototype which has 
a 2 second page refresh speed. More interesting for me is the display's ability 
to allow the person to draw on it with one's finger. This has many potential 
applications. So, though I am not interested in the Orbit, I am extremely 
interested in this display. Bristol Braille is also developing a 40 cell by 
several line text braille display which they are stating should be released 
next year. This looks to be strictly a book reader display, and I am not 
interested.

BliTab demoed a full-page braille display Android tablet at CES in January. 
This display is based on micro-fluidics. I went by their booth several times, 
but never found them whilst at CES. They were predicting a price point of 
around $300 USD for their braille tablet. I requested to be placed on their 
email list, and have not heard anything since CES. Their display technology has 
the same speed and quietness of the current piezzo electric displays.

Dot Corp has been demoing their Dot Watch, with 4 (I believe) braille cells for 
over a year now. They are a South Korean company. Thus far, they keep moving 
their launch date further and further back. Apparently, they are having 
complications with braille dot cap durability. I heard that they are planning 
for a 40 by 60 dot (not cell) display after they get their watch functioning 
properly. Like with APH, they are targeting under $1000 USD for the braille 
display.

The MIT group looks interesting. Unfortunately, their braille cell technology 
still needs to be reduced by another 25% according to an interview I heard with 
them recently. Again, if their concept proves viable, they are looking at a 
couple hundred dollars for a single line display.

The Bristol technology is the slowest and the noisiest display tech out there, 
but it is actually ready for sale. All the rest of the technologies are in 
development and/or prototype stages. I have seen many refreshable braille 
technologies make it to prototype stages. Thus far, Bristol is the only 
technology which has made it all the way through development and real world 
testing. And, there have been several attempts over the past 30 years. I have 
learned to believe the tech is coming when it actually is released onto the 
market. Prototypes are very different from mass-produced products, and real 
world testing wipes out most concepts. In the end, it does not matter how nice 
and usable something is in the lab (controlled conditions). It MUST stand up to 
the real world to be of any real use.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 26/07/2017, at 12:37, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> In the us it’s going to be about $495 I believe.  The Massachusetts Institute 
> of Technology has a team the has developed a braille display that should come 
> in around $200 US or 225 pounds.
> 
> 
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what that 
>> is in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on the 
>> market, braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!
>> 
>> Kawal.
>>> On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, that 
>>> user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
>>> Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
>>> braille displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic displays 
>>> and sell a thousand a year, think you could sell them cheap and make a 
>>> profit? Or would a million a year be more in line?
>>> 
>>> I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a company 
>>> does not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.
>>> 
>>> From 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Mary Otten]

Well, let's see if that whenever comes to market and what kind of firmware is 
with it, and what his capabilities are at Cetera. Lots of slippage between 
initial design and hype and what actually hits the market.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 25, 2017, at 7:37 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> In the us it’s going to be about $495 I believe.  The Massachusetts Institute 
> of Technology has a team the has developed a braille display that should come 
> in around $200 US or 225 pounds.
> 
> 
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what that 
>> is in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on the 
>> market, braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!
>> 
>> Kawal.
>>> On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, that 
>>> user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
>>> Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
>>> braille displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic displays 
>>> and sell a thousand a year, think you could sell them cheap and make a 
>>> profit? Or would a million a year be more in line?
>>> 
>>> I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a company 
>>> does not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 7/24/2017 8:50 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
 And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than the 
 blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like them, I 
 just think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Les,
> Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for the 
> deafblind?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 7/24/2017 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>> Hi Mary,
>> 
>> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The
>> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about
>> $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a
>> blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten > > wrote:
>> 
>>> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
>>> blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
>>> varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
>>> And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
>>> Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
>>> braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
>>> support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
>>> list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
>>> word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
>>> does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
>>> the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
>>> then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're
>>> good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that?
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
 Hi,
 Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like
 the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The
 braille is nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very
 well made.
 
 I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant,
 but that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to
 store files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked
 up to it.
 
 I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille
 note taker, but am not sure on that.
 
 I’ve had no troubles getting files from 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Scott Granados]

Kawal, the point of the orbit is it doesn’t need the maintenance that other 
displays need.  It’s supposed to be a lot more rugged and the cells not need 
the same level of repair or maintenance.  That’s what I’ve read anyway.


> On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:17 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> When i went to Sight village last week I asked about the orbit reader and it 
> wasn't there.  I just know that RNIB sold that device after getting some 
> orders in and it went like hot cakes.
> 
> Personally, I stick to my Focus Braille 14 as I'd rather have an quality item 
> as I don't even know what would happen if the orbit reader had to be cleaned, 
> I mean the cells.  I keep my Focus 14 clean by using the alcohol as it states 
> in the guide for one to clean the cells with that spray alcohol and cloth 
> once you push those cells up with holding the last two routing buttons and 
> power button.
> 
> Kawal. 
>> On 25 Jul 2017, at 22:10, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> The orbit reader is out now. There's a demonstration of Amazon Kindle tablet 
>> braille using that reader. It's loud. It's annoying. It's a great option if 
>> you can't afford anything else, based on that demo, every time the line 
>> changes you  get theannoying sound. It would really drive me crazy. It's 
>> also just 20 characters. That's not anywhere close to enough for a lot of 
>> peoples use cases. But for the price…
>> 
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what that 
>>> is in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on the 
>>> market, braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
 On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, that 
 user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
 Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
 braille displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic displays 
 and sell a thousand a year, think you could sell them cheap and make a 
 profit? Or would a million a year be more in line?
 
 I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a company 
 does not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 7/24/2017 8:50 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
> And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than the 
> blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like them, I 
> just think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Les,
>> Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for 
>> the deafblind?
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 7/24/2017 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>>> Hi Mary,
>>> 
>>> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The
>>> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about
>>> $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a
>>> blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten >> > wrote:
>>> 
 If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
 blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
 varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
 And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
 Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
 braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
 support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
 list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
 word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
 does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
 the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
 then you're also going to be 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Scott Granados]

In the us it’s going to be about $495 I believe.  The Massachusetts Institute 
of Technology has a team the has developed a braille display that should come 
in around $200 US or 225 pounds.


> On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what that 
> is in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on the 
> market, braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, that 
>> user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
>> Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
>> braille displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic displays 
>> and sell a thousand a year, think you could sell them cheap and make a 
>> profit? Or would a million a year be more in line?
>> 
>>  I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a company 
>> does not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 7/24/2017 8:50 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>>> And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than the 
>>> blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like them, I 
>>> just think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Les,
 Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for the 
 deafblind?
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 7/24/2017 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
> Hi Mary,
> 
> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The
> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about
> $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a
> blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten  > wrote:
> 
>> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
>> blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
>> varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
>> And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
>> Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
>> braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
>> support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
>> list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
>> word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
>> does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
>> the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
>> then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're
>> good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that?
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
>> > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like
>>> the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The
>>> braille is nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very
>>> well made.
>>> 
>>> I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant,
>>> but that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to
>>> store files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked
>>> up to it.
>>> 
>>> I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille
>>> note taker, but am not sure on that.
>>> 
>>> I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille
>>> sense.  when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes
>>> up like any other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to
>>> the other, although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also
>>> use a usb stick to transfer files, or the sd card.
>>> 
>>> HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as
>>> well!
>>> 
>>> 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[E.T.]

Kawal,
   The test of time will determine what happens here. Right now the 
Orbit's track record is unknown. You know the saying "cheap becomes 
expensive".


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 7/25/2017 2:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:

The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what that is 
in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on the market, 
braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!

Kawal.

On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:

  Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, that 
user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. Understand 
that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do braille displays 
have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic displays and sell a thousand a 
year, think you could sell them cheap and make a profit? Or would a million a 
year be more in line?

  I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a company does 
not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 7/24/2017 8:50 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:

And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than the 
blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like them, I just 
think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:

Les,
 Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for the 
deafblind?

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
"God for you is where you sweep away all the
mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com


On 7/24/2017 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
Hi Mary,

In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The
ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about
$4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a
blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten > wrote:


If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're
good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
> wrote:


Hi,
Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like
the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The
braille is nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very
well made.

I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant,
but that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to
store files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked
up to it.

I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille
note taker, but am not sure on that.

I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille
sense.  when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes
up like any other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to
the other, although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also
use a usb stick to transfer files, or the sd card.

HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as
well!

Cait


On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan
> wrote:

Hi all!

So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start
applying for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the
BrailleNote, but mine died a long time ago.  And even before it did,
I was starting to run into compatibility 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

When i went to Sight village last week I asked about the orbit reader and it 
wasn't there.  I just know that RNIB sold that device after getting some orders 
in and it went like hot cakes.

Personally, I stick to my Focus Braille 14 as I'd rather have an quality item 
as I don't even know what would happen if the orbit reader had to be cleaned, I 
mean the cells.  I keep my Focus 14 clean by using the alcohol as it states in 
the guide for one to clean the cells with that spray alcohol and cloth once you 
push those cells up with holding the last two routing buttons and power button.

Kawal. 
> On 25 Jul 2017, at 22:10, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> The orbit reader is out now. There's a demonstration of Amazon Kindle tablet 
> braille using that reader. It's loud. It's annoying. It's a great option if 
> you can't afford anything else, based on that demo, every time the line 
> changes you  get theannoying sound. It would really drive me crazy. It's also 
> just 20 characters. That's not anywhere close to enough for a lot of peoples 
> use cases. But for the price…
> 
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what that 
>> is in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on the 
>> market, braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!
>> 
>> Kawal.
>>> On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, that 
>>> user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
>>> Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
>>> braille displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic displays 
>>> and sell a thousand a year, think you could sell them cheap and make a 
>>> profit? Or would a million a year be more in line?
>>> 
>>> I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a company 
>>> does not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 7/24/2017 8:50 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
 And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than the 
 blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like them, I 
 just think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Les,
> Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for the 
> deafblind?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 7/24/2017 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>> Hi Mary,
>> 
>> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The
>> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about
>> $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a
>> blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten > > wrote:
>> 
>>> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
>>> blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
>>> varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
>>> And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
>>> Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
>>> braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
>>> support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
>>> list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
>>> word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
>>> does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
>>> the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
>>> then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're
>>> good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that?
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
 Hi,
 Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like
 the new 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Mary Otten]

The orbit reader is out now. There's a demonstration of Amazon Kindle tablet 
braille using that reader. It's loud. It's annoying. It's a great option if you 
can't afford anything else, based on that demo, every time the line changes you 
 get theannoying sound. It would really drive me crazy. It's also just 20 
characters. That's not anywhere close to enough for a lot of peoples use cases. 
But for the price…

Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what that 
> is in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on the 
> market, braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, that 
>> user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
>> Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
>> braille displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic displays 
>> and sell a thousand a year, think you could sell them cheap and make a 
>> profit? Or would a million a year be more in line?
>> 
>>  I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a company 
>> does not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 7/24/2017 8:50 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>>> And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than the 
>>> blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like them, I 
>>> just think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Les,
 Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for the 
 deafblind?
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 7/24/2017 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
> Hi Mary,
> 
> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The
> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about
> $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a
> blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten  > wrote:
> 
>> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
>> blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
>> varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
>> And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
>> Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
>> braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
>> support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
>> list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
>> word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
>> does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
>> the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
>> then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're
>> good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that?
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
>> > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like
>>> the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The
>>> braille is nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very
>>> well made.
>>> 
>>> I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant,
>>> but that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to
>>> store files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked
>>> up to it.
>>> 
>>> I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille
>>> note taker, but am not sure on that.
>>> 
>>> I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille
>>> sense.  when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes
>>> up like any other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Kliphton Miller]

I doubt that the expensive ones will go away.  Yes the orbit gives a cheaper 
option, but it has been rumored to have a lot of bugs, it only connects to 1 
device at a time, and as long as state agencies are paying for there clients to 
have them, they will continue to be around.  JMO
> On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:00 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what that 
> is in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on the 
> market, braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, that 
>> user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
>> Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
>> braille displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic displays 
>> and sell a thousand a year, think you could sell them cheap and make a 
>> profit? Or would a million a year be more in line?
>> 
>>  I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a company 
>> does not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 7/24/2017 8:50 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>>> And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than the 
>>> blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like them, I 
>>> just think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Les,
 Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for the 
 deafblind?
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
 E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
> On 7/24/2017 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
> Hi Mary,
> 
> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The
> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about
> $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a
> blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten  > wrote:
> 
>> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
>> blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
>> varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
>> And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
>> Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
>> braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
>> support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
>> list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
>> word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
>> does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
>> the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
>> then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're
>> good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that?
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
>> > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like
>>> the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The
>>> braille is nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very
>>> well made.
>>> 
>>> I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant,
>>> but that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to
>>> store files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked
>>> up to it.
>>> 
>>> I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille
>>> note taker, but am not sure on that.
>>> 
>>> I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille
>>> sense.  when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes
>>> up like any other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to
>>> the other, although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also
>>> use a usb stick to transfer files, or the sd card.
>>> 
>>> HTH, 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

The orbit reader is coming and it's going to cost £500 (nort sure what that is 
in dollars) but it's a whole lot cheaper.  When that comes out on the market, 
braille displays, the expensive ones may be finished!

Kawal.
> On 24 Jul 2017, at 17:02, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, that 
> user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
> Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do braille 
> displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic displays and sell a 
> thousand a year, think you could sell them cheap and make a profit? Or would 
> a million a year be more in line?
> 
>   I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a company 
> does not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 7/24/2017 8:50 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>> And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than the 
>> blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like them, I 
>> just think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Les,
>>>  Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for the 
>>> deafblind?
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 7/24/2017 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
 Hi Mary,
 
 In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The
 ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about
 $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a
 blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten > wrote:
 
> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
> blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
> varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
> And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
> Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
> braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
> support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
> list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
> word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
> does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
> the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
> then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're
> good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that?
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
> > wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like
>> the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The
>> braille is nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very
>> well made.
>> 
>> I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant,
>> but that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to
>> store files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked
>> up to it.
>> 
>> I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille
>> note taker, but am not sure on that.
>> 
>> I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille
>> sense.  when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes
>> up like any other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to
>> the other, although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also
>> use a usb stick to transfer files, or the sd card.
>> 
>> HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as
>> well!
>> 
>> Cait
>> 
>>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all!
>>> 
>>> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start
>>> applying for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the
>>> BrailleNote, but mine died a 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Yolanda Thompson]

Baum USA is the seller.

On 7/25/17, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> Hi!
> I chime in here and aggree with Mary.
> The varioUltra is one of the best displays out there in my opinion.
> I have never had so good support from any blindness related manufaturer as
> from Baum.
> They are really aware of theire customers.
> Maybe handytech can compair to them but not many others.
> /A
>> 24 juli 2017 kl. 16:36 skrev Mary Otten :
>>
>> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness
>> note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra.
>> That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has
>> note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also
>> find it more complicated than the traditional regular braille displays
>> such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well as
>> an online manual, and an active helpful email list. This display comes in
>> 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader, word processor, PDF reader,
>> spreadsheet viewer and others. What it does not have our things like the
>> ability to fetch email or connect to the Internet. That is where you would
>> need the full note taker, but then you're also going to be paying a whole
>> lot more. And if you're good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who
>> needs that?
>> Mary
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness > > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the
>>> new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is
>>> nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.
>>>
>>> I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but
>>> that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store
>>> files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.
>>>
>>> I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille
>>> note taker, but am not sure on that.
>>>
>>> I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.
>>> when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any
>>> other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to the other,
>>> although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick
>>> to transfer files, or the sd card.
>>>
>>> HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as
>>> well!
>>>
>>> Cait
>>>
 On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan
 > wrote:

 Hi all!

 So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start
 applying for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote,
 but mine died a long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting
 to run into compatibility issues between it, the program I used to
 transfer files to my old computer (a PC in those days), and the computer
 itself.  Plus, of course, I've since switched to Mac, which I don't
 think my BrailleNote was compatible with anyway.  So now I'm without a
 Braille device!  But I really want to get another one.  What's
 compatible with Mac, though?

 Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille
 device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.
 Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes, what I'd mainly
 be using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it to read my papers
 when I present at conferences, or my poetry/fiction at reading events.
 Though, I might use it for private reading too.  So are there devices in
 the Mac compatible world that will allow me to do that?

 Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be folks
 here!

 www.phantomfemme.com 
 Sent from my iPad

 --
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac
 Visionaries list.

 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark
 at:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com
  and your owner is
 Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
 

 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 
 ---
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I chime in here and aggree with Mary.
The varioUltra is one of the best displays out there in my opinion.
I have never had so good support from any blindness related manufaturer as from 
Baum.
They are really aware of theire customers.
Maybe handytech can compair to them but not many others.
/A
> 24 juli 2017 kl. 16:36 skrev Mary Otten :
> 
> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness 
> note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. 
> That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has note 
> taking capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find it 
> more complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as the 
> edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online 
> manual, and an active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell 
> links. It has a text reader, word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer 
> and others. What it does not have our things like the ability to fetch email 
> or connect to the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, 
> but then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're good 
> with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that? 
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness  > wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the new 
>> polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is nice and 
>> crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.
>> 
>> I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but 
>> that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store files, 
>> just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.
>> 
>> I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille note 
>> taker, but am not sure on that.
>> 
>> I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  
>> when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any 
>> other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, although 
>> it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick to transfer 
>> files, or the sd card.
>> 
>> HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as well!
>> 
>> Cait
>> 
>>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all!
>>> 
>>> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start applying 
>>> for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, but mine 
>>> died a long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting to run into 
>>> compatibility issues between it, the program I used to transfer files to my 
>>> old computer (a PC in those days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of 
>>> course, I've since switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was 
>>> compatible with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I really 
>>> want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?
>>> 
>>> Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille 
>>> device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.  
>>> Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes, what I'd mainly be 
>>> using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it to read my papers when I 
>>> present at conferences, or my poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I 
>>> might use it for private reading too.  So are there devices in the Mac 
>>> compatible world that will allow me to do that?
>>> 
>>> Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be folks 
>>> here!
>>> 
>>> www.phantomfemme.com 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>  
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>  
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark 
>>> at:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>>  and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Simon,

I don't know how you guys in NZ do it.  I know prices there are really high.

BTW, I have read stuff that says that Narrator is vastly improved and getting 
better.  I still haven't upgraded my PC to Windows 10, so I can't confirm this. 
 But I read one reviewer who ranked current screen-readers for Windows in the 
following order: 1. Narrator, 2. NVDA, and 3. JAWS.  Since you have to use a 
PC, you might want to try playing around with Narrator and NVDA and see what 
you think.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:51 AM, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote:
> 
> HiDonna, 
>  
> Just a note,
> The apple product is more costly for us but it includes withit the voice over 
> screen reader,
>  
> If you buy a windows computer and need a screen reader,
> Narrator is crap, NVDA is free and getting better in quality,
> Jaws is pretty dam good but pricie especially if you live like me in the far 
> and beyond.
>  
> To give you an idea of cost in nz,
> My 128GB 7+ iPhone was at purchase $1600 nz dollars,
>  
> The next phone will be even closer to 2 grand for the larger size and storage
>  
> I know when I purchased jaws it cost me $3000 but these things happen and I 
> have to pay the prices to get the product and stay up to date with technology.
>  
> I can’t just run a mac all the time as I work a lot with windows based 
> servers and powershell doesn’t work on a mac.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 July 2017 4:48 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Refreshable Braille devices?
>  
> Hi Les,
>  
> My only point about the Mac is that even without buying a top of the line 
> model, it is much more expensive than most PCs.  But we buy them, because we 
> like them.  Same thing applies here.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:28 AM, Les Kriegler <kriegle...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  
> Donna, my point about the market is that it’s small to begin with.  And now 
> you have two companies competing for market share, so the price could not 
> possibly come down.  And if you happen to have a device for trade-in, these 
> companies won’t give you fair market value.  I bought a BrailleSense and if I 
> want to trade it in, I’ll get about one third of my original price.  So we as 
> consumers are better off to sell on our own, assuming that can be 
> accomplished.  As for your comment on upgrading the Mac, unless you buy a 
> top-of-the-line unit, you won’t spend anywhere close to $4000 to $5500.  I 
> understand the market difference, I’m just referencing the facts.  If one has 
> the money to spend or has backing, then go for whatever you wish to purchase. 
>  I’m just concerned about the price of braille notetakers, that’s all.
>  
> Les
>  
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>  
> From: Donna Goodin <mailto:doniado...@me.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:19 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Refreshable Braille devices?
>  
> I agree they are expensive, but ET's points about the size of the market are 
> good ones.  What you get for your money is the option to have braille, which 
> for some of us is very important.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>  
>  
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Les Kriegler <kriegle...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  
> Hi Mary,
> 
> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The ultra 
> the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. Not worth 
> it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no taking 
> device is really paying premium for it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness 
> note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. 
> That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has note 
> taking capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find it 
> more complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as the 
> edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online 
> manual, and an active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell 
> links. It has a text reader, word processor, P

RE: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Simon Fogarty]

HiDonna,

Just a note,
The apple product is more costly for us but it includes withit the voice over 
screen reader,

If you buy a windows computer and need a screen reader,
Narrator is crap, NVDA is free and getting better in quality,
Jaws is pretty dam good but pricie especially if you live like me in the far 
and beyond.

To give you an idea of cost in nz,
My 128GB 7+ iPhone was at purchase $1600 nz dollars,

The next phone will be even closer to 2 grand for the larger size and storage

I know when I purchased jaws it cost me $3000 but these things happen and I 
have to pay the prices to get the product and stay up to date with technology.

I can’t just run a mac all the time as I work a lot with windows based servers 
and powershell doesn’t work on a mac.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Tuesday, 25 July 2017 4:48 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

Hi Les,

My only point about the Mac is that even without buying a top of the line 
model, it is much more expensive than most PCs.  But we buy them, because we 
like them.  Same thing applies here.
Cheers,
Donna
On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:28 AM, Les Kriegler 
<kriegle...@gmail.com<mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Donna, my point about the market is that it’s small to begin with.  And now you 
have two companies competing for market share, so the price could not possibly 
come down.  And if you happen to have a device for trade-in, these companies 
won’t give you fair market value.  I bought a BrailleSense and if I want to 
trade it in, I’ll get about one third of my original price.  So we as consumers 
are better off to sell on our own, assuming that can be accomplished.  As for 
your comment on upgrading the Mac, unless you buy a top-of-the-line unit, you 
won’t spend anywhere close to $4000 to $5500.  I understand the market 
difference, I’m just referencing the facts.  If one has the money to spend or 
has backing, then go for whatever you wish to purchase.  I’m just concerned 
about the price of braille notetakers, that’s all.

Les

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Donna Goodin<mailto:doniado...@me.com>
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:19 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

I agree they are expensive, but ET's points about the size of the market are 
good ones.  What you get for your money is the option to have braille, which 
for some of us is very important.
Cheers,
Donna


On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Les Kriegler 
<kriegle...@gmail.com<mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Mary,

In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The ultra 
the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. Not worth 
it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no taking device 
is really paying premium for it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten 
<motte...@gmail.com<mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness note 
taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. That has 
the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has note taking 
capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find it more 
complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as the edge. 
They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online manual, and an 
active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a 
text reader, word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it 
does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to the 
Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but then you're 
also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're good with your iPhone 
and your Mac, really, who needs that?
Mary

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
<caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com<mailto:caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi,
Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the new 
polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is nice and 
crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.

I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but that’s 
a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store files, just 
access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.

I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille note 
taker, but am not sure on that.

I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  when I 
attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any other drive, 
and I can copy and paste things from one

RE: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Donna,

Apple products are the same for us the blind and for the general able bodied 
public, the adaptive technology is part of the produt no matter who buys the 
apple device / product.

As for adaptive tech that is highly priced because the competition is also 
charging the same amount for the other products.

‘m asking if jaws for windows will go up now that window eyes has been removed 
from the playing field.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Tuesday, 25 July 2017 4:04 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

And the Mac is different how?  :)  Just saying.  I agree that these devices are 
expensive, but so is the Mac, and most of us replace our Macs every five years 
or so, or even less.
Cheers,
Donna
On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler 
<kriegle...@gmail.com<mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Understood. The problem I have with all these companies as you buy want his 
devices and you spend thousands of dollars and then for five years later 
something else comes out and you have to spend the same amount again. It just 
doesn't make a lot of sense.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:51 AM, Mary Otten 
<motte...@gmail.com<mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Les,
I agree that devices like the altar are very expensive. But, based on what the 
original poster said she wanted, it sounds like that device would meet her 
needs. Perhaps the Edgewood as well. I know it's less expensive. I am just not 
that familiar with its capabilities in terms of notetaking and file 
transferring, particularly to a Mac. But I think it is about $1000 or perhaps a 
bit more than that cheaper, if that makes any sense.
Mary

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler 
<kriegle...@gmail.com<mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Mary,

In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The ultra 
the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. Not worth 
it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no taking device 
is really paying premium for it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten 
<motte...@gmail.com<mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness note 
taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. That has 
the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has note taking 
capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find it more 
complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as the edge. 
They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online manual, and an 
active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a 
text reader, word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it 
does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to the 
Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but then you're 
also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're good with your iPhone 
and your Mac, really, who needs that?
Mary

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
<caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com<mailto:caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi,
Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the new 
polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is nice and 
crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.

I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but that’s 
a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store files, just 
access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.

I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille note 
taker, but am not sure on that.

I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  when I 
attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any other drive, 
and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, although it takes a long 
time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick to transfer files, or the sd 
card.

HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as well!

Cait

On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
<phantom.va...@gmail.com<mailto:phantom.va...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi all!

So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start applying for 
assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, but mine died a 
long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting to run into 
compatibility issues between it, the program I used to transfer files to my old 
computer (a PC in those days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of course, I've 
since switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was compatible with 
anyway.  So now I'm w

RE: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Simon Fogarty]

But lets face it
Adaptive technology for the blind is expensive but what are we going to do, not 
buy it!

It’s  a captured market and we need to have something to make life work for us 
so we pay these prices.

I know I buy the iPhone because it’s accessible I could get the Samsung android 
products but to me they aren’t as nice to use. But they would do the job and 
are cheaper.


From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Tuesday, 25 July 2017 3:51 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

Hi Les,
I agree that devices like the altar are very expensive. But, based on what the 
original poster said she wanted, it sounds like that device would meet her 
needs. Perhaps the Edgewood as well. I know it's less expensive. I am just not 
that familiar with its capabilities in terms of notetaking and file 
transferring, particularly to a Mac. But I think it is about $1000 or perhaps a 
bit more than that cheaper, if that makes any sense.
Mary

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler 
<kriegle...@gmail.com<mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Mary,

In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The ultra 
the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. Not worth 
it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no taking device 
is really paying premium for it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten 
<motte...@gmail.com<mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness note 
taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. That has 
the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has note taking 
capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find it more 
complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as the edge. 
They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online manual, and an 
active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a 
text reader, word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it 
does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to the 
Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but then you're 
also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're good with your iPhone 
and your Mac, really, who needs that?
Mary

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness 
<caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com<mailto:caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi,
Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the new 
polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is nice and 
crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.

I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but that’s 
a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store files, just 
access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.

I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille note 
taker, but am not sure on that.

I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  when I 
attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any other drive, 
and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, although it takes a long 
time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick to transfer files, or the sd 
card.

HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as well!

Cait

On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
<phantom.va...@gmail.com<mailto:phantom.va...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi all!

So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start applying for 
assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, but mine died a 
long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting to run into 
compatibility issues between it, the program I used to transfer files to my old 
computer (a PC in those days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of course, I've 
since switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was compatible with 
anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I really want to get another 
one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?

Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille device 
that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.  Because, 
although I might use it for writing sometimes, what I'd mainly be using it for 
is reading.  For example, I'd use it to read my papers when I present at 
conferences, or my poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I might use it 
for private reading too.  So are there devices in the Mac compatible world that 
will allow me to do that?

Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be folks here!

www.phantomfemme.com<http://www.phantomfemme.com/>
Sent f

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[E.T.]

   Then what will you do about it? There are plenty of resources for 
those of us with limited income. At the end of the day, the OP still 
wants to know what choices she has, without being limited to the cost 
factor.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 7/24/2017 12:07 PM, Les Kriegler wrote:

Hi E. Tea,

I'm not concerned about how people spend their money. I am concerned, however 
for the people who can't afford these devices, and there are a lot of them. But 
a literacy is important, but many people don't have that opportunity because of 
the cost of these devices. That's the only point I'm trying to make here. 
Anybody can buy whatever they want.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 24, 2017, at 2:35 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote:

  Competition is necessary. If it were not for that, a company would have no 
incentive for developing the best product.

  Do you think a blind user would spend more for a used product that has no 
warranty? Its caveat emptor and when you are talking a couple thousand, that is 
not a wise investment.

  Now, Les, you have many choices. But why are you concerned about what someone 
else may consider a wise investment anyway? Its not your money after all. 
(smiles)

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com


On 7/24/2017 9:28 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
Donna, my point about the market is that it’s small to begin with.  And
now you have two companies competing for market share, so the price
could not possibly come down.  And if you happen to have a device for
trade-in, these companies won’t give you fair market value.  I bought a
BrailleSense and if I want to trade it in, I’ll get about one third of
my original price.  So we as consumers are better off to sell on our
own, assuming that can be accomplished.  As for your comment on
upgrading the Mac, unless you buy a top-of-the-line unit, you won’t
spend anywhere close to $4000 to $5500.  I understand the market
difference, I’m just referencing the facts.  If one has the money to
spend or has backing, then go for whatever you wish to purchase.  I’m
just concerned about the price of braille notetakers, that’s all.



Les



Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *Donna Goodin <mailto:doniado...@me.com>
*Sent: *Monday, July 24, 2017 12:19 PM
*To: *macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Subject: *Re: Refreshable Braille devices?



I agree they are expensive, but ET's points about the size of the market
are good ones.  What you get for your money is the option to have
braille, which for some of us is very important.

Cheers,

Donna





   On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Les Kriegler <kriegle...@gmail.com
   <mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com>> wrote:



   Hi Mary,

   In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced.
   The ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her
   about $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody
   who buys a blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.


   Sent from my iPhone


   On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com
   <mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote:

   If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
   blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might
   consider the varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer
   files with a USB stick. And it also has note taking capability.
   It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find it more
   complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such
   as the edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well
   as an online manual, and an active helpful email list. This
   display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader, word
   processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
   does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or
   connect to the Internet. That is where you would need the full
   note taker, but then you're also going to be paying a whole lot
   more. And if you're good with your iPhone and your Mac, really,
   who needs that?
   Mary


   Sent from my iPhone


   On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
   <caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com <mailto:caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com>>
   wrote:

   Hi,

   Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are
   things like the new polaris and the U2, braille se

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Scott Granados]

There’s no reason to be concerned about braille note taker prices.  You’ve got 
the orbit which I myself wouldn’t buy with E.T’s money let alone my own but 
that’s only $500.  MIT has a product coming out that’s only $200 which is a 
vast improvement in price.  Once machines get down to that price point people 
can buy their own equipment or for the really down and out folks like myself 
who have done well can easily pull a few hundred bucks out of a pocket and buy 
a round of braille displays for someone.  The days of the Freedom Scientific 
monopoly are over.

> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Les Kriegler <kriegle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi E. Tea,
> 
> I'm not concerned about how people spend their money. I am concerned, however 
> for the people who can't afford these devices, and there are a lot of them. 
> But a literacy is important, but many people don't have that opportunity 
> because of the cost of these devices. That's the only point I'm trying to 
> make here. Anybody can buy whatever they want.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 2:35 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  Competition is necessary. If it were not for that, a company would have no 
>> incentive for developing the best product.
>> 
>>  Do you think a blind user would spend more for a used product that has no 
>> warranty? Its caveat emptor and when you are talking a couple thousand, that 
>> is not a wise investment.
>> 
>>  Now, Les, you have many choices. But why are you concerned about what 
>> someone else may consider a wise investment anyway? Its not your money after 
>> all. (smiles)
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 7/24/2017 9:28 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>>> Donna, my point about the market is that it’s small to begin with.  And
>>> now you have two companies competing for market share, so the price
>>> could not possibly come down.  And if you happen to have a device for
>>> trade-in, these companies won’t give you fair market value.  I bought a
>>> BrailleSense and if I want to trade it in, I’ll get about one third of
>>> my original price.  So we as consumers are better off to sell on our
>>> own, assuming that can be accomplished.  As for your comment on
>>> upgrading the Mac, unless you buy a top-of-the-line unit, you won’t
>>> spend anywhere close to $4000 to $5500.  I understand the market
>>> difference, I’m just referencing the facts.  If one has the money to
>>> spend or has backing, then go for whatever you wish to purchase.  I’m
>>> just concerned about the price of braille notetakers, that’s all.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Les
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows 10
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *From: *Donna Goodin <mailto:doniado...@me.com>
>>> *Sent: *Monday, July 24, 2017 12:19 PM
>>> *To: *macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>>> *Subject: *Re: Refreshable Braille devices?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I agree they are expensive, but ET's points about the size of the market
>>> are good ones.  What you get for your money is the option to have
>>> braille, which for some of us is very important.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Les Kriegler <kriegle...@gmail.com
>>>   <mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   Hi Mary,
>>> 
>>>   In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced.
>>>   The ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her
>>>   about $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody
>>>   who buys a blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com
>>>   <mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>   If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
>>>   blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you mi

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Les Kriegler]

Hi E. Tea,

I'm not concerned about how people spend their money. I am concerned, however 
for the people who can't afford these devices, and there are a lot of them. But 
a literacy is important, but many people don't have that opportunity because of 
the cost of these devices. That's the only point I'm trying to make here. 
Anybody can buy whatever they want.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 24, 2017, at 2:35 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
>   Competition is necessary. If it were not for that, a company would have no 
> incentive for developing the best product.
> 
>   Do you think a blind user would spend more for a used product that has no 
> warranty? Its caveat emptor and when you are talking a couple thousand, that 
> is not a wise investment.
> 
>   Now, Les, you have many choices. But why are you concerned about what 
> someone else may consider a wise investment anyway? Its not your money after 
> all. (smiles)
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 7/24/2017 9:28 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>> Donna, my point about the market is that it’s small to begin with.  And
>> now you have two companies competing for market share, so the price
>> could not possibly come down.  And if you happen to have a device for
>> trade-in, these companies won’t give you fair market value.  I bought a
>> BrailleSense and if I want to trade it in, I’ll get about one third of
>> my original price.  So we as consumers are better off to sell on our
>> own, assuming that can be accomplished.  As for your comment on
>> upgrading the Mac, unless you buy a top-of-the-line unit, you won’t
>> spend anywhere close to $4000 to $5500.  I understand the market
>> difference, I’m just referencing the facts.  If one has the money to
>> spend or has backing, then go for whatever you wish to purchase.  I’m
>> just concerned about the price of braille notetakers, that’s all.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Les
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *From: *Donna Goodin <mailto:doniado...@me.com>
>> *Sent: *Monday, July 24, 2017 12:19 PM
>> *To: *macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject: *Re: Refreshable Braille devices?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I agree they are expensive, but ET's points about the size of the market
>> are good ones.  What you get for your money is the option to have
>> braille, which for some of us is very important.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Donna
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Les Kriegler <kriegle...@gmail.com
>><mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>Hi Mary,
>> 
>>In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced.
>>The ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her
>>about $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody
>>who buys a blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.
>> 
>> 
>>Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>>On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com
>><mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
>>blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might
>>consider the varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer
>>files with a USB stick. And it also has note taking capability.
>>It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find it more
>>complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such
>>as the edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well
>>as an online manual, and an active helpful email list. This
>>display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader, word
>>processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
>>does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or
>>connect to the Internet. That is where you would need the full
>>note taker, but then you're also going to be paying a whole lot
>>more. And if you're good with your iPhone and your Mac, really,
>>who needs that?
>>Mary
>> 
>> 
>>

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[E.T.]

   Competition is necessary. If it were not for that, a company would 
have no incentive for developing the best product.


   Do you think a blind user would spend more for a used product that 
has no warranty? Its caveat emptor and when you are talking a couple 
thousand, that is not a wise investment.


   Now, Les, you have many choices. But why are you concerned about 
what someone else may consider a wise investment anyway? Its not your 
money after all. (smiles)


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 7/24/2017 9:28 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:

Donna, my point about the market is that it’s small to begin with.  And
now you have two companies competing for market share, so the price
could not possibly come down.  And if you happen to have a device for
trade-in, these companies won’t give you fair market value.  I bought a
BrailleSense and if I want to trade it in, I’ll get about one third of
my original price.  So we as consumers are better off to sell on our
own, assuming that can be accomplished.  As for your comment on
upgrading the Mac, unless you buy a top-of-the-line unit, you won’t
spend anywhere close to $4000 to $5500.  I understand the market
difference, I’m just referencing the facts.  If one has the money to
spend or has backing, then go for whatever you wish to purchase.  I’m
just concerned about the price of braille notetakers, that’s all.



Les



Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *Donna Goodin <mailto:doniado...@me.com>
*Sent: *Monday, July 24, 2017 12:19 PM
*To: *macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
*Subject: *Re: Refreshable Braille devices?



I agree they are expensive, but ET's points about the size of the market
are good ones.  What you get for your money is the option to have
braille, which for some of us is very important.

Cheers,

Donna





On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Les Kriegler <kriegle...@gmail.com
<mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com>> wrote:



Hi Mary,

In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced.
The ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her
about $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody
who buys a blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.


Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com
<mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote:

If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might
consider the varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer
files with a USB stick. And it also has note taking capability.
It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find it more
complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such
as the edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well
as an online manual, and an active helpful email list. This
display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader, word
processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or
connect to the Internet. That is where you would need the full
note taker, but then you're also going to be paying a whole lot
more. And if you're good with your iPhone and your Mac, really,
who needs that?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
<caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com <mailto:caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

Hi,

Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are
things like the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line
of products.  The braille is nice and crisp, and the devices
themselves are just very well made.



I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the
brilliant, but that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have
the capability to store files, just access what’s on the
computer when you are hooked up to it.



I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like
a braille note taker, but am not sure on that.



I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the
braille sense.  when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable,
the device comes up like any other drive, and I can copy and
paste things from one to the other, although it takes a long
time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick to transfer
files, or the sd card.



  

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Donna Goodin]

Becky,

If you're in the U.S., contact your state rehab/blindness organization.  They 
will probably tie the purchase to education or employment, and may also exert 
control over which device they will purchase for you, but it's a start.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:40 AM, Rebecca Sabo  wrote:
> 
> Hi all
> Is there a program or grant program out there to buy a braille display I 
> really would like one?
> Becky
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:07 AM, Donna Goodin  > wrote:
> 
> I've used both the Ultra and the Edge, and though of course this is just my 
> opinion, I think the Ultra is a far superior device.  It's smaller, lighter, 
> much more solidly built, and has much better functionality.  I like HIMS as a 
> company, but I think they kind of dropped the ball with the Edge.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Mary Otten > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Les,
>> I agree that devices like the altar are very expensive. But, based on what 
>> the original poster said she wanted, it sounds like that device would meet 
>> her needs. Perhaps the Edgewood as well. I know it's less expensive. I am 
>> just not that familiar with its capabilities in terms of notetaking and file 
>> transferring, particularly to a Mac. But I think it is about $1000 or 
>> perhaps a bit more than that cheaper, if that makes any sense.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Mary,
>>> 
>>> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The 
>>> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. 
>>> Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no 
>>> taking device is really paying premium for it.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten >> > wrote:
>>> 
 If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness 
 note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. 
 That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has 
 note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also 
 find it more complicated than the traditional regular braille displays 
 such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well as 
 an online manual, and an active helpful email list. This display comes in 
 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader, word processor, PDF reader, 
 spreadsheet viewer and others. What it does not have our things like the 
 ability to fetch email or connect to the Internet. That is where you would 
 need the full note taker, but then you're also going to be paying a whole 
 lot more. And if you're good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who 
 needs that? 
 Mary
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness > wrote:
 
> Hi,
> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the 
> new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is 
> nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.
> 
> I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but 
> that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store 
> files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.
> 
> I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille 
> note taker, but am not sure on that.
> 
> I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  
> when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any 
> other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, 
> although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick 
> to transfer files, or the sd card.
> 
> HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as 
> well!
> 
> Cait
> 
>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all!
>> 
>> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start 
>> applying for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, 
>> but mine died a long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting 
>> to run into compatibility issues between it, the program I used to 
>> transfer files to my old computer (a PC in those days), and the computer 
>> itself.  Plus, of course, I've since switched to Mac, which I don't 
>> think my 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Les,

My only point about the Mac is that even without buying a top of the line 
model, it is much more expensive than most PCs.  But we buy them, because we 
like them.  Same thing applies here.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:28 AM, Les Kriegler <kriegle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Donna, my point about the market is that it’s small to begin with.  And now 
> you have two companies competing for market share, so the price could not 
> possibly come down.  And if you happen to have a device for trade-in, these 
> companies won’t give you fair market value.  I bought a BrailleSense and if I 
> want to trade it in, I’ll get about one third of my original price.  So we as 
> consumers are better off to sell on our own, assuming that can be 
> accomplished.  As for your comment on upgrading the Mac, unless you buy a 
> top-of-the-line unit, you won’t spend anywhere close to $4000 to $5500.  I 
> understand the market difference, I’m just referencing the facts.  If one has 
> the money to spend or has backing, then go for whatever you wish to purchase. 
>  I’m just concerned about the price of braille notetakers, that’s all.
>  
> Les
>  
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>  
> From: Donna Goodin <mailto:doniado...@me.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:19 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Refreshable Braille devices?
>  
> I agree they are expensive, but ET's points about the size of the market are 
> good ones.  What you get for your money is the option to have braille, which 
> for some of us is very important.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>  
>  
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Les Kriegler <kriegle...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:kriegle...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  
> Hi Mary,
> 
> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The ultra 
> the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. Not worth 
> it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no taking 
> device is really paying premium for it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness 
> note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. 
> That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has note 
> taking capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find it 
> more complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as the 
> edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online 
> manual, and an active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell 
> links. It has a text reader, word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer 
> and others. What it does not have our things like the ability to fetch email 
> or connect to the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, 
> but then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're good 
> with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that? 
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness <caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the new 
> polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is nice and 
> crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.
>  
> I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but 
> that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store files, 
> just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.
>  
> I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille note 
> taker, but am not sure on that.
>  
> I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  when 
> I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any other 
> drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, although it 
> takes a long time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick to transfer 
> files, or the sd card.
>  
> HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as well!
>  
> Cait
>  
> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
> <phantom.va...@gmail.com <mailto:phantom.va...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  
> Hi all!
>  
> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start applying for 
> assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, but mine died a 
> long time a

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Rebecca Sabo]

Hi all
Is there a program or grant program out there to buy a braille display I really 
would like one?
Becky

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:07 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

I've used both the Ultra and the Edge, and though of course this is just my 
opinion, I think the Ultra is a far superior device.  It's smaller, lighter, 
much more solidly built, and has much better functionality.  I like HIMS as a 
company, but I think they kind of dropped the ball with the Edge.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi Les,
> I agree that devices like the altar are very expensive. But, based on what 
> the original poster said she wanted, it sounds like that device would meet 
> her needs. Perhaps the Edgewood as well. I know it's less expensive. I am 
> just not that familiar with its capabilities in terms of notetaking and file 
> transferring, particularly to a Mac. But I think it is about $1000 or perhaps 
> a bit more than that cheaper, if that makes any sense.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mary,
>> 
>> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The 
>> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. 
>> Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no 
>> taking device is really paying premium for it.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness 
>>> note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. 
>>> That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has 
>>> note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find 
>>> it more complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as 
>>> the edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online 
>>> manual, and an active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 
>>> sell links. It has a text reader, word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet 
>>> viewer and others. What it does not have our things like the ability to 
>>> fetch email or connect to the Internet. That is where you would need the 
>>> full note taker, but then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. 
>>> And if you're good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that? 
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness  
 wrote:
 
 Hi,
 Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the 
 new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is 
 nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.
 
 I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but 
 that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store 
 files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.
 
 I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille note 
 taker, but am not sure on that.
 
 I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  
 when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any 
 other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, 
 although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick to 
 transfer files, or the sd card.
 
 HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as well!
 
 Cait
 
> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start applying 
> for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, but mine 
> died a long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting to run into 
> compatibility issues between it, the program I used to transfer files to 
> my old computer (a PC in those days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of 
> course, I've since switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote 
> was compatible with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I 
> really want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?
> 
> Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille 
> device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.  
> Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes, what I'd mainly 
> be using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it to read my papers 
> when I present at conferences, or my poetry/fiction at reading events.  
> Though, I might use it for private reading too.  So are there devices in 
> 

RE: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Les Kriegler]

Donna, my point about the market is that it’s small to begin with.  And now you 
have two companies competing for market share, so the price could not possibly 
come down.  And if you happen to have a device for trade-in, these companies 
won’t give you fair market value.  I bought a BrailleSense and if I want to 
trade it in, I’ll get about one third of my original price.  So we as consumers 
are better off to sell on our own, assuming that can be accomplished.  As for 
your comment on upgrading the Mac, unless you buy a top-of-the-line unit, you 
won’t spend anywhere close to $4000 to $5500.  I understand the market 
difference, I’m just referencing the facts.  If one has the money to spend or 
has backing, then go for whatever you wish to purchase.  I’m just concerned 
about the price of braille notetakers, that’s all.

Les

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Donna Goodin
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:19 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

I agree they are expensive, but ET's points about the size of the market are 
good ones.  What you get for your money is the option to have braille, which 
for some of us is very important.
Cheers,
Donna


On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Les Kriegler <kriegle...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Mary,

In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The ultra 
the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. Not worth 
it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no taking device 
is really paying premium for it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com> wrote:
If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness note 
taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. That has 
the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has note taking 
capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find it more 
complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as the edge. 
They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online manual, and an 
active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a 
text reader, word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it 
does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to the 
Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but then you're 
also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're good with your iPhone 
and your Mac, really, who needs that? 
Mary

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness <caitlyn.furn...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the new 
polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is nice and 
crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.

I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but that’s 
a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store files, just 
access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.

I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille note 
taker, but am not sure on that.

I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  when I 
attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any other drive, 
and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, although it takes a long 
time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick to transfer files, or the sd 
card.

HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as well!

Cait

On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
<phantom.va...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all!

So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start applying for 
assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, but mine died a 
long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting to run into 
compatibility issues between it, the program I used to transfer files to my old 
computer (a PC in those days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of course, I've 
since switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was compatible with 
anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I really want to get another 
one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?

Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille device 
that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.  Because, 
although I might use it for writing sometimes, what I'd mainly be using it for 
is reading.  For example, I'd use it to read my papers when I present at 
conferences, or my poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I might use it 
for private reading too.  So are there devices in the Mac compatible world that 
will allow me to do that?

Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be folks here!

www.phantomfemme.com
Sent from my iPad

-- 
The following information is i

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Caitlyn Furness]

Mary,
Thanks for talking about the vary.  this sounds like something I’d like myself!

Cait

> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:53 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> Understood. The problem I have with all these companies as you buy want his 
> devices and you spend thousands of dollars and then for five years later 
> something else comes out and you have to spend the same amount again. It just 
> doesn't make a lot of sense.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:51 AM, Mary Otten  > wrote:
> 
>> Hi Les,
>> I agree that devices like the altar are very expensive. But, based on what 
>> the original poster said she wanted, it sounds like that device would meet 
>> her needs. Perhaps the Edgewood as well. I know it's less expensive. I am 
>> just not that familiar with its capabilities in terms of notetaking and file 
>> transferring, particularly to a Mac. But I think it is about $1000 or 
>> perhaps a bit more than that cheaper, if that makes any sense.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Mary,
>>> 
>>> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The 
>>> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. 
>>> Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no 
>>> taking device is really paying premium for it.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten >> > wrote:
>>> 
 If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness 
 note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. 
 That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has 
 note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also 
 find it more complicated than the traditional regular braille displays 
 such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well as 
 an online manual, and an active helpful email list. This display comes in 
 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader, word processor, PDF reader, 
 spreadsheet viewer and others. What it does not have our things like the 
 ability to fetch email or connect to the Internet. That is where you would 
 need the full note taker, but then you're also going to be paying a whole 
 lot more. And if you're good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who 
 needs that? 
 Mary
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness > wrote:
 
> Hi,
> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the 
> new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is 
> nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.
> 
> I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but 
> that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store 
> files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.
> 
> I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille 
> note taker, but am not sure on that.
> 
> I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  
> when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any 
> other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, 
> although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick 
> to transfer files, or the sd card.
> 
> HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as 
> well!
> 
> Cait
> 
>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all!
>> 
>> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start 
>> applying for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, 
>> but mine died a long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting 
>> to run into compatibility issues between it, the program I used to 
>> transfer files to my old computer (a PC in those days), and the computer 
>> itself.  Plus, of course, I've since switched to Mac, which I don't 
>> think my BrailleNote was compatible with anyway.  So now I'm without a 
>> Braille device!  But I really want to get another one.  What's 
>> compatible with Mac, though?
>> 
>> Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille 
>> device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.  
>> Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes, what I'd mainly 
>> be using it for is 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Donna Goodin]

I agree they are expensive, but ET's points about the size of the market are 
good ones.  What you get for your money is the option to have braille, which 
for some of us is very important.
Cheers,
Donna


> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mary,
> 
> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The ultra 
> the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. Not worth 
> it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no taking 
> device is really paying premium for it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten  > wrote:
> 
>> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness 
>> note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. 
>> That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has 
>> note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find 
>> it more complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as 
>> the edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online 
>> manual, and an active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 
>> sell links. It has a text reader, word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet 
>> viewer and others. What it does not have our things like the ability to 
>> fetch email or connect to the Internet. That is where you would need the 
>> full note taker, but then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. 
>> And if you're good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that? 
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the 
>>> new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is 
>>> nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.
>>> 
>>> I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but 
>>> that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store files, 
>>> just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.
>>> 
>>> I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille note 
>>> taker, but am not sure on that.
>>> 
>>> I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  
>>> when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any 
>>> other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, 
>>> although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick to 
>>> transfer files, or the sd card.
>>> 
>>> HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as well!
>>> 
>>> Cait
>>> 
 On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
 > wrote:
 
 Hi all!
 
 So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start applying 
 for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, but mine 
 died a long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting to run into 
 compatibility issues between it, the program I used to transfer files to 
 my old computer (a PC in those days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of 
 course, I've since switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was 
 compatible with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I 
 really want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?
 
 Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille 
 device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.  
 Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes, what I'd mainly be 
 using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it to read my papers when I 
 present at conferences, or my poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I 
 might use it for private reading too.  So are there devices in the Mac 
 compatible world that will allow me to do that?
 
 Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be folks 
 here!
 
 www.phantomfemme.com 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
  
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
  
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
 macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
  and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Donna Goodin]

Good luck!  Hope it doesn't take too long.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:35 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Thanks, its bookmarked and the piggy bank is instructed to start collecting 
> funds. No telling how long it will take.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 7/24/2017 8:30 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Baum.  Their website is at:
>> http://www.baumusa.com
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 9:56 AM, E.T. >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Who is the seller for this product in the states?
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>> 
>>> On 7/24/2017 7:46 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
 I second this recommendation.  If you are up for the learning curve, the
 VarioUltra is an excellent device.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Mary Otten  
> > wrote:
> 
> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
> blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
> varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
> And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
> Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
> braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
> support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
> list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
> word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
> does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
> the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
> then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're
> good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that?
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
> 
> > wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like
>> the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The
>> braille is nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very
>> well made.
>> 
>> I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant,
>> but that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to
>> store files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked
>> up to it.
>> 
>> I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille
>> note taker, but am not sure on that.
>> 
>> I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille
>> sense.  when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes
>> up like any other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to
>> the other, although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also
>> use a usb stick to transfer files, or the sd card.
>> 
>> HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as
>> well!
>> 
>> Cait
>> 
>>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan
>>> 
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all!
>>> 
>>> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start
>>> applying for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the
>>> BrailleNote, but mine died a long time ago.  And even before it did,
>>> I was starting to run into compatibility issues between it, the
>>> program I used to transfer files to my old computer (a PC in those
>>> days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of course, I've since
>>> switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was compatible
>>> with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I really
>>> want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?
>>> 
>>> Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable
>>> Braille device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer
>>> and back.  Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes,
>>> what I'd mainly be using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it
>>> to read my papers when I present at 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Donna Goodin]

I've used both the Ultra and the Edge, and though of course this is just my 
opinion, I think the Ultra is a far superior device.  It's smaller, lighter, 
much more solidly built, and has much better functionality.  I like HIMS as a 
company, but I think they kind of dropped the ball with the Edge.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi Les,
> I agree that devices like the altar are very expensive. But, based on what 
> the original poster said she wanted, it sounds like that device would meet 
> her needs. Perhaps the Edgewood as well. I know it's less expensive. I am 
> just not that familiar with its capabilities in terms of notetaking and file 
> transferring, particularly to a Mac. But I think it is about $1000 or perhaps 
> a bit more than that cheaper, if that makes any sense.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler  > wrote:
> 
>> Hi Mary,
>> 
>> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The 
>> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. 
>> Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no 
>> taking device is really paying premium for it.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten > > wrote:
>> 
>>> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness 
>>> note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. 
>>> That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has 
>>> note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find 
>>> it more complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as 
>>> the edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online 
>>> manual, and an active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 
>>> sell links. It has a text reader, word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet 
>>> viewer and others. What it does not have our things like the ability to 
>>> fetch email or connect to the Internet. That is where you would need the 
>>> full note taker, but then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. 
>>> And if you're good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that? 
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness >> > wrote:
>>> 
 Hi,
 Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the 
 new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is 
 nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.
 
 I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but 
 that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store 
 files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.
 
 I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille note 
 taker, but am not sure on that.
 
 I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  
 when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any 
 other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, 
 although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick to 
 transfer files, or the sd card.
 
 HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as well!
 
 Cait
 
> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
> > wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start applying 
> for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, but mine 
> died a long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting to run into 
> compatibility issues between it, the program I used to transfer files to 
> my old computer (a PC in those days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of 
> course, I've since switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote 
> was compatible with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I 
> really want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?
> 
> Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille 
> device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.  
> Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes, what I'd mainly 
> be using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it to read my papers 
> when I present at conferences, or my poetry/fiction at reading events.  
> Though, I might use it for private reading too.  So are there devices in 
> the Mac compatible world that will allow me to do that?
> 
> Anyway, 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[E.T.]

   It makes perfect sense.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 7/24/2017 8:53 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:

Understood. The problem I have with all these companies as you buy want
his devices and you spend thousands of dollars and then for five years
later something else comes out and you have to spend the same amount
again. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:51 AM, Mary Otten > wrote:


Hi Les,
I agree that devices like the altar are very expensive. But, based on
what the original poster said she wanted, it sounds like that device
would meet her needs. Perhaps the Edgewood as well. I know it's less
expensive. I am just not that familiar with its capabilities in terms
of notetaking and file transferring, particularly to a Mac. But I
think it is about $1000 or perhaps a bit more than that cheaper, if
that makes any sense.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler > wrote:


Hi Mary,

In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced.
The ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her
about $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who
buys a blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten > wrote:


If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider
the varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB
stick. And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent
warranty. Some people also find it more complicated than the
traditional regular braille displays such as the edge. They do have
excellent US customer support, as well as an online manual, and an
active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell
links. It has a text reader, word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet
viewer and others. What it does not have our things like the ability
to fetch email or connect to the Internet. That is where you would
need the full note taker, but then you're also going to be paying a
whole lot more. And if you're good with your iPhone and your Mac,
really, who needs that?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
> wrote:


Hi,
Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things
like the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.
 The braille is nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just
very well made.

I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the
brilliant, but that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the
capability to store files, just access what’s on the computer when
you are hooked up to it.

I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a
braille note taker, but am not sure on that.

I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille
sense.  when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device
comes up like any other drive, and I can copy and paste things from
one to the other, although it takes a long time.  Of course, you
can also use a usb stick to transfer files, or the sd card.

HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this
as well!

Cait


On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan
> wrote:

Hi all!

So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start
applying for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the
BrailleNote, but mine died a long time ago.  And even before it
did, I was starting to run into compatibility issues between it,
the program I used to transfer files to my old computer (a PC in
those days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of course, I've since
switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was compatible
with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I really
want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?

Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable
Braille device that I can easily transfer files to from my
computer and back.  Because, although I might use it for writing
sometimes, what I'd mainly be using it for is reading.  For
example, I'd use it to read my papers when I present at
conferences, or my poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I
might use it for private reading too.  So are there devices in the
Mac compatible world that will allow me to do that?

Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be
folks here!

www.phantomfemme.com 
Sent from my 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Donna Goodin]

And the Mac is different how?  :)  Just saying.  I agree that these devices are 
expensive, but so is the Mac, and most of us replace our Macs every five years 
or so, or even less.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:53 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> Understood. The problem I have with all these companies as you buy want his 
> devices and you spend thousands of dollars and then for five years later 
> something else comes out and you have to spend the same amount again. It just 
> doesn't make a lot of sense.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:51 AM, Mary Otten  > wrote:
> 
>> Hi Les,
>> I agree that devices like the altar are very expensive. But, based on what 
>> the original poster said she wanted, it sounds like that device would meet 
>> her needs. Perhaps the Edgewood as well. I know it's less expensive. I am 
>> just not that familiar with its capabilities in terms of notetaking and file 
>> transferring, particularly to a Mac. But I think it is about $1000 or 
>> perhaps a bit more than that cheaper, if that makes any sense.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Mary,
>>> 
>>> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The 
>>> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. 
>>> Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no 
>>> taking device is really paying premium for it.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten >> > wrote:
>>> 
 If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness 
 note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. 
 That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has 
 note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also 
 find it more complicated than the traditional regular braille displays 
 such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well as 
 an online manual, and an active helpful email list. This display comes in 
 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader, word processor, PDF reader, 
 spreadsheet viewer and others. What it does not have our things like the 
 ability to fetch email or connect to the Internet. That is where you would 
 need the full note taker, but then you're also going to be paying a whole 
 lot more. And if you're good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who 
 needs that? 
 Mary
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness > wrote:
 
> Hi,
> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the 
> new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is 
> nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.
> 
> I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but 
> that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store 
> files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.
> 
> I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille 
> note taker, but am not sure on that.
> 
> I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  
> when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any 
> other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, 
> although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick 
> to transfer files, or the sd card.
> 
> HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as 
> well!
> 
> Cait
> 
>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all!
>> 
>> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start 
>> applying for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, 
>> but mine died a long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting 
>> to run into compatibility issues between it, the program I used to 
>> transfer files to my old computer (a PC in those days), and the computer 
>> itself.  Plus, of course, I've since switched to Mac, which I don't 
>> think my BrailleNote was compatible with anyway.  So now I'm without a 
>> Braille device!  But I really want to get another one.  What's 
>> compatible with Mac, though?
>> 
>> Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille 
>> device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.  
>> 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[E.T.]

   Did not understand that but well, if a user is dependent on braille, 
that user will not feel a solidly-made braille display to be overpriced. 
Understand that concept? But here is the thing. How large a market do 
braille displays have? I dare say if if you can produce fantastic 
displays and sell a thousand a year, think you could sell them cheap and 
make a profit? Or would a million a year be more in line?


   I've never studied marketing and all that but can say that if a 
company does not make a profit, it cannot stay in business.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 7/24/2017 8:50 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:

And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than the 
blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like them, I just 
think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:

Les,
  Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for the 
deafblind?

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com


On 7/24/2017 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
Hi Mary,

In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The
ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about
$4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a
blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten > wrote:


If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're
good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
> wrote:


Hi,
Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like
the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The
braille is nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very
well made.

I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant,
but that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to
store files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked
up to it.

I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille
note taker, but am not sure on that.

I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille
sense.  when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes
up like any other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to
the other, although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also
use a usb stick to transfer files, or the sd card.

HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as
well!

Cait


On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan
> wrote:

Hi all!

So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start
applying for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the
BrailleNote, but mine died a long time ago.  And even before it did,
I was starting to run into compatibility issues between it, the
program I used to transfer files to my old computer (a PC in those
days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of course, I've since
switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was compatible
with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I really
want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?

Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable
Braille device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer
and back.  Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes,
what I'd mainly be using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it
to read my papers when I present at conferences, or my
poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I might use it 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Les Kriegler]

What I really don't understand his companies like human where in the hymns that 
are basically selling the same device and competing for business in a small 
market. Now that really doesn't make any sense.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:51 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi Les,
> I agree that devices like the altar are very expensive. But, based on what 
> the original poster said she wanted, it sounds like that device would meet 
> her needs. Perhaps the Edgewood as well. I know it's less expensive. I am 
> just not that familiar with its capabilities in terms of notetaking and file 
> transferring, particularly to a Mac. But I think it is about $1000 or perhaps 
> a bit more than that cheaper, if that makes any sense.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mary,
>> 
>> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The 
>> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. 
>> Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no 
>> taking device is really paying premium for it.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness 
>>> note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. 
>>> That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has 
>>> note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find 
>>> it more complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as 
>>> the edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online 
>>> manual, and an active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 
>>> sell links. It has a text reader, word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet 
>>> viewer and others. What it does not have our things like the ability to 
>>> fetch email or connect to the Internet. That is where you would need the 
>>> full note taker, but then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. 
>>> And if you're good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that? 
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness  
 wrote:
 
 Hi,
 Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the 
 new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is 
 nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.
 
 I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but 
 that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store 
 files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.
 
 I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille note 
 taker, but am not sure on that.
 
 I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  
 when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any 
 other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, 
 although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick to 
 transfer files, or the sd card.
 
 HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as well!
 
 Cait
 
> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start applying 
> for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, but mine 
> died a long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting to run into 
> compatibility issues between it, the program I used to transfer files to 
> my old computer (a PC in those days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of 
> course, I've since switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote 
> was compatible with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I 
> really want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?
> 
> Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille 
> device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.  
> Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes, what I'd mainly 
> be using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it to read my papers 
> when I present at conferences, or my poetry/fiction at reading events.  
> Though, I might use it for private reading too.  So are there devices in 
> the Mac compatible world that will allow me to do that?
> 
> Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be folks 
> here!
> 
> www.phantomfemme.com
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Les Kriegler]

Understood. The problem I have with all these companies as you buy want his 
devices and you spend thousands of dollars and then for five years later 
something else comes out and you have to spend the same amount again. It just 
doesn't make a lot of sense.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:51 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi Les,
> I agree that devices like the altar are very expensive. But, based on what 
> the original poster said she wanted, it sounds like that device would meet 
> her needs. Perhaps the Edgewood as well. I know it's less expensive. I am 
> just not that familiar with its capabilities in terms of notetaking and file 
> transferring, particularly to a Mac. But I think it is about $1000 or perhaps 
> a bit more than that cheaper, if that makes any sense.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mary,
>> 
>> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The 
>> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. 
>> Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no 
>> taking device is really paying premium for it.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness 
>>> note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. 
>>> That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has 
>>> note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find 
>>> it more complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as 
>>> the edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online 
>>> manual, and an active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 
>>> sell links. It has a text reader, word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet 
>>> viewer and others. What it does not have our things like the ability to 
>>> fetch email or connect to the Internet. That is where you would need the 
>>> full note taker, but then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. 
>>> And if you're good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that? 
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness  
 wrote:
 
 Hi,
 Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the 
 new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is 
 nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.
 
 I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but 
 that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store 
 files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.
 
 I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille note 
 taker, but am not sure on that.
 
 I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  
 when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any 
 other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, 
 although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick to 
 transfer files, or the sd card.
 
 HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as well!
 
 Cait
 
> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start applying 
> for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, but mine 
> died a long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting to run into 
> compatibility issues between it, the program I used to transfer files to 
> my old computer (a PC in those days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of 
> course, I've since switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote 
> was compatible with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I 
> really want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?
> 
> Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille 
> device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.  
> Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes, what I'd mainly 
> be using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it to read my papers 
> when I present at conferences, or my poetry/fiction at reading events.  
> Though, I might use it for private reading too.  So are there devices in 
> the Mac compatible world that will allow me to do that?
> 
> Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be folks 
> here!
> 
> www.phantomfemme.com
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> -- 
> The 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Mary Otten]

Hi Les,
I agree that devices like the altar are very expensive. But, based on what the 
original poster said she wanted, it sounds like that device would meet her 
needs. Perhaps the Edgewood as well. I know it's less expensive. I am just not 
that familiar with its capabilities in terms of notetaking and file 
transferring, particularly to a Mac. But I think it is about $1000 or perhaps a 
bit more than that cheaper, if that makes any sense.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 24, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mary,
> 
> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The ultra 
> the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. Not worth 
> it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no taking 
> device is really paying premium for it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness 
>> note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. 
>> That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has 
>> note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find 
>> it more complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as 
>> the edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online 
>> manual, and an active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 
>> sell links. It has a text reader, word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet 
>> viewer and others. What it does not have our things like the ability to 
>> fetch email or connect to the Internet. That is where you would need the 
>> full note taker, but then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. 
>> And if you're good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that? 
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the 
>>> new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is 
>>> nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.
>>> 
>>> I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but 
>>> that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store files, 
>>> just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.
>>> 
>>> I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille note 
>>> taker, but am not sure on that.
>>> 
>>> I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  
>>> when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any 
>>> other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, 
>>> although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick to 
>>> transfer files, or the sd card.
>>> 
>>> HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as well!
>>> 
>>> Cait
>>> 
 On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
  wrote:
 
 Hi all!
 
 So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start applying 
 for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, but mine 
 died a long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting to run into 
 compatibility issues between it, the program I used to transfer files to 
 my old computer (a PC in those days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of 
 course, I've since switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was 
 compatible with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I 
 really want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?
 
 Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille 
 device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.  
 Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes, what I'd mainly be 
 using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it to read my papers when I 
 present at conferences, or my poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I 
 might use it for private reading too.  So are there devices in the Mac 
 compatible world that will allow me to do that?
 
 Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be folks 
 here!
 
 www.phantomfemme.com
 Sent from my iPad
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
  
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
  
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
 macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Les Kriegler]

And iPhone with the braille display would be much less expensive than the 
blandest waited well no takers. However, I understand people like them, I just 
think they are way too costly. Just one person's opinion.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Les,
>   Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially for the 
> deafblind?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
>> On 7/24/2017 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:
>> Hi Mary,
>> 
>> In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The
>> ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about
>> $4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a
>> blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten > > wrote:
>> 
>>> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
>>> blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
>>> varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
>>> And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
>>> Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
>>> braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
>>> support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
>>> list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
>>> word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
>>> does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
>>> the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
>>> then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're
>>> good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that?
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
 Hi,
 Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like
 the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The
 braille is nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very
 well made.
 
 I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant,
 but that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to
 store files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked
 up to it.
 
 I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille
 note taker, but am not sure on that.
 
 I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille
 sense.  when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes
 up like any other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to
 the other, although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also
 use a usb stick to transfer files, or the sd card.
 
 HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as
 well!
 
 Cait
 
> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan
> > wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start
> applying for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the
> BrailleNote, but mine died a long time ago.  And even before it did,
> I was starting to run into compatibility issues between it, the
> program I used to transfer files to my old computer (a PC in those
> days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of course, I've since
> switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was compatible
> with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I really
> want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?
> 
> Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable
> Braille device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer
> and back.  Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes,
> what I'd mainly be using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it
> to read my papers when I present at conferences, or my
> poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I might use it for
> private reading too.  So are there devices in the Mac compatible
> world that will allow me to do that?
> 
> Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be
> folks here!
> 
> www.phantomfemme.com 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[E.T.]

Les,
   Overpriced compared to? Is there a mainstream solution especially 
for the deafblind?


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 7/24/2017 8:39 AM, Les Kriegler wrote:

Hi Mary,

In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The
ultra the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about
$4000. Not worth it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a
blind is no taking device is really paying premium for it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten > wrote:


If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're
good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
> wrote:


Hi,
Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like
the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The
braille is nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very
well made.

I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant,
but that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to
store files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked
up to it.

I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille
note taker, but am not sure on that.

I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille
sense.  when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes
up like any other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to
the other, although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also
use a usb stick to transfer files, or the sd card.

HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as
well!

Cait


On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan
> wrote:

Hi all!

So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start
applying for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the
BrailleNote, but mine died a long time ago.  And even before it did,
I was starting to run into compatibility issues between it, the
program I used to transfer files to my old computer (a PC in those
days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of course, I've since
switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was compatible
with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I really
want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?

Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable
Braille device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer
and back.  Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes,
what I'd mainly be using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it
to read my papers when I present at conferences, or my
poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I might use it for
private reading too.  So are there devices in the Mac compatible
world that will allow me to do that?

Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be
folks here!

www.phantomfemme.com 
Sent from my iPad

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please
contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the
list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach
mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com
 and your owner is
Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com


The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Mary,

In my opinion, all the no takers including the ultra or overpriced. The ultra 
the last time I checked for the 40 so my will cost her about $4000. Not worth 
it in my opinion for what you get. Anybody who buys a blind is no taking device 
is really paying premium for it.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 24, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness 
> note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. 
> That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has note 
> taking capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find it 
> more complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as the 
> edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online 
> manual, and an active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell 
> links. It has a text reader, word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer 
> and others. What it does not have our things like the ability to fetch email 
> or connect to the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, 
> but then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're good 
> with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that? 
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the new 
>> polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is nice and 
>> crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.
>> 
>> I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but 
>> that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store files, 
>> just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.
>> 
>> I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille note 
>> taker, but am not sure on that.
>> 
>> I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  
>> when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any 
>> other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, although 
>> it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick to transfer 
>> files, or the sd card.
>> 
>> HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as well!
>> 
>> Cait
>> 
>>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all!
>>> 
>>> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start applying 
>>> for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, but mine 
>>> died a long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting to run into 
>>> compatibility issues between it, the program I used to transfer files to my 
>>> old computer (a PC in those days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of 
>>> course, I've since switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was 
>>> compatible with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I really 
>>> want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?
>>> 
>>> Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille 
>>> device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.  
>>> Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes, what I'd mainly be 
>>> using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it to read my papers when I 
>>> present at conferences, or my poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I 
>>> might use it for private reading too.  So are there devices in the Mac 
>>> compatible world that will allow me to do that?
>>> 
>>> Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be folks 
>>> here!
>>> 
>>> www.phantomfemme.com
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>  
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>  
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>>  
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[E.T.]

   Thanks, its bookmarked and the piggy bank is instructed to start 
collecting funds. No telling how long it will take.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 7/24/2017 8:30 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

Baum.  Their website is at:
http://www.baumusa.com
Cheers,
Donna

On Jul 24, 2017, at 9:56 AM, E.T. > wrote:

  Who is the seller for this product in the states?

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com 

On 7/24/2017 7:46 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

I second this recommendation.  If you are up for the learning curve, the
VarioUltra is an excellent device.
Cheers,
Donna

On Jul 24, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Mary Otten 
> wrote:

If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're
good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness

> wrote:


Hi,
Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like
the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The
braille is nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very
well made.

I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant,
but that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to
store files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked
up to it.

I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille
note taker, but am not sure on that.

I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille
sense.  when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes
up like any other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to
the other, although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also
use a usb stick to transfer files, or the sd card.

HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as
well!

Cait


On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan

> wrote:

Hi all!

So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start
applying for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the
BrailleNote, but mine died a long time ago.  And even before it did,
I was starting to run into compatibility issues between it, the
program I used to transfer files to my old computer (a PC in those
days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of course, I've since
switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was compatible
with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I really
want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?

Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable
Braille device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer
and back.  Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes,
what I'd mainly be using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it
to read my papers when I present at conferences, or my
poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I might use it for
private reading too.  So are there devices in the Mac compatible
world that will allow me to do that?

Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be
folks here!

www.phantomfemme.com 

Sent from my iPad

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac
Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please
contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the
list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Donna Goodin]

Baum.  Their website is at:
http://www.baumusa.com  
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 9:56 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Who is the seller for this product in the states?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 7/24/2017 7:46 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> I second this recommendation.  If you are up for the learning curve, the
>> VarioUltra is an excellent device.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Mary Otten >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
>>> blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
>>> varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
>>> And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
>>> Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
>>> braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
>>> support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
>>> list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
>>> word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
>>> does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
>>> the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
>>> then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're
>>> good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that?
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
 Hi,
 Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like
 the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The
 braille is nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very
 well made.
 
 I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant,
 but that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to
 store files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked
 up to it.
 
 I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille
 note taker, but am not sure on that.
 
 I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille
 sense.  when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes
 up like any other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to
 the other, although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also
 use a usb stick to transfer files, or the sd card.
 
 HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as
 well!
 
 Cait
 
> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan
> > wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start
> applying for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the
> BrailleNote, but mine died a long time ago.  And even before it did,
> I was starting to run into compatibility issues between it, the
> program I used to transfer files to my old computer (a PC in those
> days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of course, I've since
> switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was compatible
> with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I really
> want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?
> 
> Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable
> Braille device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer
> and back.  Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes,
> what I'd mainly be using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it
> to read my papers when I present at conferences, or my
> poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I might use it for
> private reading too.  So are there devices in the Mac compatible
> world that will allow me to do that?
> 
> Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be
> folks here!
> 
> www.phantomfemme.com 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please
> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the
> list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach
> mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com
> 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[E.T.]

   Who is the seller for this product in the states?

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 7/24/2017 7:46 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

I second this recommendation.  If you are up for the learning curve, the
VarioUltra is an excellent device.
Cheers,
Donna

On Jul 24, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Mary Otten > wrote:

If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive
blindness note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the
varrio ultra. That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick.
And it also has note taking capability. It has an excellent warranty.
Some people also find it more complicated than the traditional regular
braille displays such as the edge. They do have excellent US customer
support, as well as an online manual, and an active helpful email
list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a text reader,
word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it
does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to
the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but
then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're
good with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness
> wrote:


Hi,
Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like
the new polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The
braille is nice and crisp, and the devices themselves are just very
well made.

I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant,
but that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to
store files, just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked
up to it.

I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille
note taker, but am not sure on that.

I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille
sense.  when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes
up like any other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to
the other, although it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also
use a usb stick to transfer files, or the sd card.

HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as
well!

Cait


On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan
> wrote:

Hi all!

So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start
applying for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the
BrailleNote, but mine died a long time ago.  And even before it did,
I was starting to run into compatibility issues between it, the
program I used to transfer files to my old computer (a PC in those
days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of course, I've since
switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was compatible
with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I really
want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?

Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable
Braille device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer
and back.  Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes,
what I'd mainly be using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it
to read my papers when I present at conferences, or my
poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I might use it for
private reading too.  So are there devices in the Mac compatible
world that will allow me to do that?

Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be
folks here!

www.phantomfemme.com 
Sent from my iPad

--
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Visionaries list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this
list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please
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Visit this 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Donna Goodin]

I second this recommendation.  If you are up for the learning curve, the 
VarioUltra is an excellent device.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 9:36 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness 
> note taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. 
> That has the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has note 
> taking capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find it 
> more complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as the 
> edge. They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online 
> manual, and an active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell 
> links. It has a text reader, word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer 
> and others. What it does not have our things like the ability to fetch email 
> or connect to the Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, 
> but then you're also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're good 
> with your iPhone and your Mac, really, who needs that? 
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness  > wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the new 
>> polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is nice and 
>> crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.
>> 
>> I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but 
>> that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store files, 
>> just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.
>> 
>> I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille note 
>> taker, but am not sure on that.
>> 
>> I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  
>> when I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any 
>> other drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, although 
>> it takes a long time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick to transfer 
>> files, or the sd card.
>> 
>> HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as well!
>> 
>> Cait
>> 
>>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all!
>>> 
>>> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start applying 
>>> for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, but mine 
>>> died a long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting to run into 
>>> compatibility issues between it, the program I used to transfer files to my 
>>> old computer (a PC in those days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of 
>>> course, I've since switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was 
>>> compatible with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I really 
>>> want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?
>>> 
>>> Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille 
>>> device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.  
>>> Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes, what I'd mainly be 
>>> using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it to read my papers when I 
>>> present at conferences, or my poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I 
>>> might use it for private reading too.  So are there devices in the Mac 
>>> compatible world that will allow me to do that?
>>> 
>>> Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be folks 
>>> here!
>>> 
>>> www.phantomfemme.com 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>>  
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>>  
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>>  and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
>>> 
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
>>> To post to this group, send email to 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Mary Otten]

If you don't want the full blown capability of a very expensive blindness note 
taker, such as the new Polaris, you might consider the varrio ultra. That has 
the ability to transfer files with a USB stick. And it also has note taking 
capability. It has an excellent warranty. Some people also find it more 
complicated than the traditional regular braille displays such as the edge. 
They do have excellent US customer support, as well as an online manual, and an 
active helpful email list. This display comes in 20 or 40 sell links. It has a 
text reader, word processor, PDF reader, spreadsheet viewer and others. What it 
does not have our things like the ability to fetch email or connect to the 
Internet. That is where you would need the full note taker, but then you're 
also going to be paying a whole lot more. And if you're good with your iPhone 
and your Mac, really, who needs that? 
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 24, 2017, at 3:08 AM, Caitlyn Furness  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the new 
> polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is nice and 
> crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.
> 
> I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but 
> that’s a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store files, 
> just access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.
> 
> I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille note 
> taker, but am not sure on that.
> 
> I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  when 
> I attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any other 
> drive, and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, although it 
> takes a long time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick to transfer 
> files, or the sd card.
> 
> HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as well!
> 
> Cait
> 
>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all!
>> 
>> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start applying 
>> for assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, but mine 
>> died a long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting to run into 
>> compatibility issues between it, the program I used to transfer files to my 
>> old computer (a PC in those days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of 
>> course, I've since switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was 
>> compatible with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I really 
>> want to get another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?
>> 
>> Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille 
>> device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.  
>> Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes, what I'd mainly be 
>> using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it to read my papers when I 
>> present at conferences, or my poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I 
>> might use it for private reading too.  So are there devices in the Mac 
>> compatible world that will allow me to do that?
>> 
>> Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be folks 
>> here!
>> 
>> www.phantomfemme.com
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>  
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>  
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>  
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn 

Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Caitlyn Furness]

Hi,
Personally, I love any of the Hims devices, so these are things like the new 
polaris and the U2, braille sense line of products.  The braille is nice and 
crisp, and the devices themselves are just very well made.

I can’t speak about anything made by humanware except the brilliant, but that’s 
a full sized display and doesn’t have the capability to store files, just 
access what’s on the computer when you are hooked up to it.

I think the braille edge from Hims also works somewhat like a braille note 
taker, but am not sure on that.

I’ve had no troubles getting files from the mac onto the braille sense.  when I 
attach it to my mac with a USB cable, the device comes up like any other drive, 
and I can copy and paste things from one to the other, although it takes a long 
time.  Of course, you can also use a usb stick to transfer files, or the sd 
card.

HTH, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say on this as well!

Cait

> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start applying for 
> assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, but mine died a 
> long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting to run into 
> compatibility issues between it, the program I used to transfer files to my 
> old computer (a PC in those days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of course, 
> I've since switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was compatible 
> with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I really want to get 
> another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?
> 
> Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille 
> device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.  
> Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes, what I'd mainly be 
> using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it to read my papers when I 
> present at conferences, or my poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I 
> might use it for private reading too.  So are there devices in the Mac 
> compatible world that will allow me to do that?
> 
> Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be folks here!
> 
> www.phantomfemme.com 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> .

-- 
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list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Refreshable Braille devices?

[Jonathan Cohn]

I think you need to put down a few more requirements then will they work with a 
Macintosh.  Most of the cost of a braille display is still the braille output 
cells and the relative obscurity of the devices themselves. If you are looking 
for a Braille display that you can also take notes with than even the most 
current round of Freedom Scientific Focus 40's are apparently capable of taking 
notes off connection. 
If you want to transfer files using a flash disk than every Braille notetaker 
and even some of the souped up displays have the ability to write to flash 
thumb drives. 

I would want any system I bought to be able to take notes in a meeting using 
UEB Braille, have at least 30 cells, have the ability to upgrade directly over 
the network or via a thumb drive.

I do like the sounds of the two Android based Notetakers, but I am not sure how 
much more one is paying for the Android guts versus just a Braille display. I 
heard from a friend that there is still work to be done on the Humanware 
BrailleNote touch. One advantage for you of this system, is that it still has 
the KeySoft system so you could  use all the commands you are used to. 


Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



> On Jul 23, 2017, at 6:26 PM, Sarah Amelia Sackville McLauchlan 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> So am looking for some advice/guidance before I go out and start applying for 
> assistive tech grant money.  I used to use the BrailleNote, but mine died a 
> long time ago.  And even before it did, I was starting to run into 
> compatibility issues between it, the program I used to transfer files to my 
> old computer (a PC in those days), and the computer itself.  Plus, of course, 
> I've since switched to Mac, which I don't think my BrailleNote was compatible 
> with anyway.  So now I'm without a Braille device!  But I really want to get 
> another one.  What's compatible with Mac, though?
> 
> Basically, what I'm looking for would be a portable, refreshable Braille 
> device that I can easily transfer files to from my computer and back.  
> Because, although I might use it for writing sometimes, what I'd mainly be 
> using it for is reading.  For example, I'd use it to read my papers when I 
> present at conferences, or my poetry/fiction at reading events.  Though, I 
> might use it for private reading too.  So are there devices in the Mac 
> compatible world that will allow me to do that?
> 
> Anyway, thanks.  :-) I figured that, if anyone would know, it'd be folks here!
> 
> www.phantomfemme.com 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
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