Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?

2016-08-17 Thread David Hofstee 
You can fix the bounce handling problem for 97%+ of the bounces. You just have 
to put in a lot of effort to make it smarter (which LinkedIn should put in). Or 
they can buy a custom bouncehandler from us ;-). 

So I don't agree to the 'just keep emailing and ignore bounces' thing either. 
And I don't see why the 550's, telling that there is a technical issue in your 
PTR, do not count (after a number of those). Because you either fix the issue 
or stop mailing to recipients that will not receive it. A month is a fine time 
to fix issues (any issue). 

Met vriendelijke groet,


David Hofstee

Deliverability Management
MailPlus B.V. Netherlands (ESP)

- Oorspronkelijk bericht -
Van: "Michelle Sullivan" <miche...@sorbs.net>
Aan: "Brandon Long" <bl...@google.com>
Cc: "mailop" <mailop@mailop.org>
Verzonden: Woensdag 17 augustus 2016 01:19:27
Onderwerp: Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?

Brandon Long wrote:
> I'm not sure what they're supposed to do.

Bounce handling/hard failing wouldn't be a bad thing... I have facebook 
getting 550 User Unknown for the same email address for over 6 months 
now  that's when it gets ridiculous...  (Well done Steve for the 
article on this problem) you know, I get  with the whole ESP 5xx's are 
not hard fails argument (even though I disagree personally) .. but 
seriously... if the same email address gives you 5xx responses 
(particularly 550's) for a month you have to question the validity of 
the argument.

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Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?

2016-08-16 Thread John Levine 
>Isn't the '550 no user here' a good enough indication of this is not my 
>account? 

It's not my account, but it is my e-mail address.

My gmail address is my name, and every once in a while someone else
with a name similar to mine signs up for something and gives them my
address with predictably annoying consequences.  It is really
impressive how persistent some of them are, e.g., a guy in Michigan
who insisted for several days that I was his brother.

I don't want to close the account, but it sure would be nice if the
confirmation messages had a "not me" button.  As it is, some of them I
can do password recovery and close the account, some of them I argue
with people saying no, I'm not the guy they're looking for (for one
particularly persistent psychiatrist near Boston who kept signing me
up for brokers that arrange hospital shifts, I got to the point that I
was telling them he was dead), and a lot just gets reported as spam a
few times until I stop seeing it.

R's,
John

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Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?

2016-08-16 Thread Brandon Long via mailop 
Yeah, I missed the 550 response part... at that point, yes, they should
figure it out.

Brandon

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Matt Vernhout  wrote:

> Isn't the '550 no user here' a good enough indication of this is not my
> account?
>
> ~
> Matt Vernhout
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 16, 2016, at 6:26 PM, Brandon Long via mailop 
> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what they're supposed to do.
>
> If they give you the information, they're giving you information that's
> not yours, which is clearly a violation of privacy.
>
> If you have access to the email address, and you use that to get access to
> data that's not yours, then you're the one doing the privacy violation.
>
> What they should have is a way to say "this isn't my account".  I've seen
> that commonly on first attempts (ie, Google's sign up will send a
> validation message to your alternate/secondary email address, and that has
> a "this wasn't me" link in it), but it's not common after the fact.
>
> With some mail, I've seen that you can edit the delivery preferences
> without any other kind of login, I've done that sometimes to stop getting
> the messages, even if that hasn't actually "fixed" the underlying problem.
>
> It's obviously a problem with address re-use as well.  I'm not sure if
> these specific hosts have ever implemented Yahoo's RRVS extension, if so
> you might be able to get them to stop that way.
>
> Brandon
>
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 1:34 AM, Michelle Sullivan 
> wrote:
>
>> Benoit Panizzon wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Michelle
>>>
>>> Have a similar (though substantially smaller numbers) with Apple
 iCloud accounts... main problem there is people sending receipts for
 their purchases... you'd think they (the consumers) might be worried
 about a third-party getting all their (valid) credit card details,
 but I guess not

>>> Apple has privacy issues with their AppleID's. I also got hit by emails
>>> sending me newsletters and recipes from stuff I apparently purchased @
>>> apple. First I thought they were some kind of spam or phishing emails,
>>> but upon close inspection, they looked genuine.
>>>
>>> So according to swiss privacy laws, I asked Apple to send me all the
>>> data that was connected to my apparent AppleID and the source where
>>> they got that data from.
>>>
>>> Their reply was: We cannot send you this data, because that AppleID
>>> obviously does not belong to you and we have to protect the privacy of
>>> that other person. And they kept sending me newsletters etc. pretending
>>> that I was not the owner of the said email address used as AppleID.
>>>
>>> So I proceeded in recovering the password of that AppleID. Logged into
>>> that account, found all the billing and personal information from a
>>> person in Canada with a Name similar to mine. With that information I
>>> asked apple again, how this person could create an AppleID with my
>>> email address and learned, that the Email Address used as AppleID, when
>>> created in an Apple Shop, are not being verified. What probably happened
>>> was that the dealer mistyped the canadian customer's email address when
>>> he bought an iPhone (the one I got the bill for) and had it configured
>>> by that shop.
>>>
>>> Which the funny thing is with such details I can now get people's
>> emails, access to their password lists (if they stored in their iCloud
>> keychain), locate them, erase their devices etc..  such a security risk in
>> the name of privacy... not to mention as you pointed out privacy is out of
>> the window when you use the 'recover password' function... along with
>> security of any credit card associated with the account.
>>
>> --
>> Michelle Sullivan
>> http://www.mhix.org/
>>
>>
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Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?

2016-08-16 Thread Matt Vernhout 
Isn't the '550 no user here' a good enough indication of this is not my 
account? 

~
Matt Vernhout

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 16, 2016, at 6:26 PM, Brandon Long via mailop  
> wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure what they're supposed to do.
> 
> If they give you the information, they're giving you information that's not 
> yours, which is clearly a violation of privacy.
> 
> If you have access to the email address, and you use that to get access to 
> data that's not yours, then you're the one doing the privacy violation.
> 
> What they should have is a way to say "this isn't my account".  I've seen 
> that commonly on first attempts (ie, Google's sign up will send a validation 
> message to your alternate/secondary email address, and that has a "this 
> wasn't me" link in it), but it's not common after the fact.
> 
> With some mail, I've seen that you can edit the delivery preferences without 
> any other kind of login, I've done that sometimes to stop getting the 
> messages, even if that hasn't actually "fixed" the underlying problem.
> 
> It's obviously a problem with address re-use as well.  I'm not sure if these 
> specific hosts have ever implemented Yahoo's RRVS extension, if so you might 
> be able to get them to stop that way.
> 
> Brandon
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 1:34 AM, Michelle Sullivan  
>> wrote:
>> Benoit Panizzon wrote:
>>> Hi Michelle
>>> 
 Have a similar (though substantially smaller numbers) with Apple
 iCloud accounts... main problem there is people sending receipts for
 their purchases... you'd think they (the consumers) might be worried
 about a third-party getting all their (valid) credit card details,
 but I guess not
>>> Apple has privacy issues with their AppleID's. I also got hit by emails
>>> sending me newsletters and recipes from stuff I apparently purchased @
>>> apple. First I thought they were some kind of spam or phishing emails,
>>> but upon close inspection, they looked genuine.
>>> 
>>> So according to swiss privacy laws, I asked Apple to send me all the
>>> data that was connected to my apparent AppleID and the source where
>>> they got that data from.
>>> 
>>> Their reply was: We cannot send you this data, because that AppleID
>>> obviously does not belong to you and we have to protect the privacy of
>>> that other person. And they kept sending me newsletters etc. pretending
>>> that I was not the owner of the said email address used as AppleID.
>>> 
>>> So I proceeded in recovering the password of that AppleID. Logged into
>>> that account, found all the billing and personal information from a
>>> person in Canada with a Name similar to mine. With that information I
>>> asked apple again, how this person could create an AppleID with my
>>> email address and learned, that the Email Address used as AppleID, when
>>> created in an Apple Shop, are not being verified. What probably happened
>>> was that the dealer mistyped the canadian customer's email address when
>>> he bought an iPhone (the one I got the bill for) and had it configured
>>> by that shop.
>>> 
>> Which the funny thing is with such details I can now get people's emails, 
>> access to their password lists (if they stored in their iCloud keychain), 
>> locate them, erase their devices etc..  such a security risk in the name of 
>> privacy... not to mention as you pointed out privacy is out of the window 
>> when you use the 'recover password' function... along with security of any 
>> credit card associated with the account.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Michelle Sullivan
>> http://www.mhix.org/
>> 
>> 
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Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?

2016-08-16 Thread Brandon Long via mailop 
I'm not sure what they're supposed to do.

If they give you the information, they're giving you information that's not
yours, which is clearly a violation of privacy.

If you have access to the email address, and you use that to get access to
data that's not yours, then you're the one doing the privacy violation.

What they should have is a way to say "this isn't my account".  I've seen
that commonly on first attempts (ie, Google's sign up will send a
validation message to your alternate/secondary email address, and that has
a "this wasn't me" link in it), but it's not common after the fact.

With some mail, I've seen that you can edit the delivery preferences
without any other kind of login, I've done that sometimes to stop getting
the messages, even if that hasn't actually "fixed" the underlying problem.

It's obviously a problem with address re-use as well.  I'm not sure if
these specific hosts have ever implemented Yahoo's RRVS extension, if so
you might be able to get them to stop that way.

Brandon

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 1:34 AM, Michelle Sullivan 
wrote:

> Benoit Panizzon wrote:
>
>> Hi Michelle
>>
>> Have a similar (though substantially smaller numbers) with Apple
>>> iCloud accounts... main problem there is people sending receipts for
>>> their purchases... you'd think they (the consumers) might be worried
>>> about a third-party getting all their (valid) credit card details,
>>> but I guess not
>>>
>> Apple has privacy issues with their AppleID's. I also got hit by emails
>> sending me newsletters and recipes from stuff I apparently purchased @
>> apple. First I thought they were some kind of spam or phishing emails,
>> but upon close inspection, they looked genuine.
>>
>> So according to swiss privacy laws, I asked Apple to send me all the
>> data that was connected to my apparent AppleID and the source where
>> they got that data from.
>>
>> Their reply was: We cannot send you this data, because that AppleID
>> obviously does not belong to you and we have to protect the privacy of
>> that other person. And they kept sending me newsletters etc. pretending
>> that I was not the owner of the said email address used as AppleID.
>>
>> So I proceeded in recovering the password of that AppleID. Logged into
>> that account, found all the billing and personal information from a
>> person in Canada with a Name similar to mine. With that information I
>> asked apple again, how this person could create an AppleID with my
>> email address and learned, that the Email Address used as AppleID, when
>> created in an Apple Shop, are not being verified. What probably happened
>> was that the dealer mistyped the canadian customer's email address when
>> he bought an iPhone (the one I got the bill for) and had it configured
>> by that shop.
>>
>> Which the funny thing is with such details I can now get people's emails,
> access to their password lists (if they stored in their iCloud keychain),
> locate them, erase their devices etc..  such a security risk in the name of
> privacy... not to mention as you pointed out privacy is out of the window
> when you use the 'recover password' function... along with security of any
> credit card associated with the account.
>
> --
> Michelle Sullivan
> http://www.mhix.org/
>
>
> ___
> mailop mailing list
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> https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
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Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?

2016-08-16 Thread Michelle Sullivan 

Benoit Panizzon wrote:

Hi Michelle


Have a similar (though substantially smaller numbers) with Apple
iCloud accounts... main problem there is people sending receipts for
their purchases... you'd think they (the consumers) might be worried
about a third-party getting all their (valid) credit card details,
but I guess not

Apple has privacy issues with their AppleID's. I also got hit by emails
sending me newsletters and recipes from stuff I apparently purchased @
apple. First I thought they were some kind of spam or phishing emails,
but upon close inspection, they looked genuine.

So according to swiss privacy laws, I asked Apple to send me all the
data that was connected to my apparent AppleID and the source where
they got that data from.

Their reply was: We cannot send you this data, because that AppleID
obviously does not belong to you and we have to protect the privacy of
that other person. And they kept sending me newsletters etc. pretending
that I was not the owner of the said email address used as AppleID.

So I proceeded in recovering the password of that AppleID. Logged into
that account, found all the billing and personal information from a
person in Canada with a Name similar to mine. With that information I
asked apple again, how this person could create an AppleID with my
email address and learned, that the Email Address used as AppleID, when
created in an Apple Shop, are not being verified. What probably happened
was that the dealer mistyped the canadian customer's email address when
he bought an iPhone (the one I got the bill for) and had it configured
by that shop.

Which the funny thing is with such details I can now get people's 
emails, access to their password lists (if they stored in their iCloud 
keychain), locate them, erase their devices etc..  such a security risk 
in the name of privacy... not to mention as you pointed out privacy is 
out of the window when you use the 'recover password' function... along 
with security of any credit card associated with the account.


--
Michelle Sullivan
http://www.mhix.org/


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Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?

2016-08-16 Thread Benoit Panizzon 
Hi Michelle

> Have a similar (though substantially smaller numbers) with Apple
> iCloud accounts... main problem there is people sending receipts for
> their purchases... you'd think they (the consumers) might be worried
> about a third-party getting all their (valid) credit card details,
> but I guess not

Apple has privacy issues with their AppleID's. I also got hit by emails
sending me newsletters and recipes from stuff I apparently purchased @
apple. First I thought they were some kind of spam or phishing emails,
but upon close inspection, they looked genuine.

So according to swiss privacy laws, I asked Apple to send me all the
data that was connected to my apparent AppleID and the source where
they got that data from.

Their reply was: We cannot send you this data, because that AppleID
obviously does not belong to you and we have to protect the privacy of
that other person. And they kept sending me newsletters etc. pretending
that I was not the owner of the said email address used as AppleID.

So I proceeded in recovering the password of that AppleID. Logged into
that account, found all the billing and personal information from a
person in Canada with a Name similar to mine. With that information I
asked apple again, how this person could create an AppleID with my
email address and learned, that the Email Address used as AppleID, when
created in an Apple Shop, are not being verified. What probably happened
was that the dealer mistyped the canadian customer's email address when
he bought an iPhone (the one I got the bill for) and had it configured
by that shop.

-Benoît Panizzon-
-- 
I m p r o W a r e   A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden
__

Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel  +41 61 826 93 00
CH-4133 PrattelnFax  +41 61 826 93 01
Schweiz Web  http://www.imp.ch
__

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Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?

2016-08-15 Thread Michelle Sullivan 

Franck Martin wrote:

Thanks,

As with Apple, they used to remember your email address associated 
with your credit card, now, likely due to privacy/security concerns, 
when you want the receipt to be emailed to you, you need to type your 
email address each time. Now, many people do not know their email 
address especially when the system originally suggested for an already 
used email address was to add a number to the email address. 
michelle@mailbox is taken but michelle1@mailbox is free


Apple does not email credit card details in receipts. Well like in all 
receipts, they only print the last 4 numbers of your credit card.


Not worried about Apple so much the volume is one or two a week (and 
usually the same couple of accounts).. and really I know who to phone if 
it really becomes an issue with them ...  it's Facebook and Twitter the 
worst of the worst at the moment...


Thanks anyhow..

Michelle

--
Michelle Sullivan
http://www.mhix.org/


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Re: [mailop] Facebook/Twitter, advice/anyone here?

2016-08-15 Thread Franck Martin via mailop 
Thanks,

As with Apple, they used to remember your email address associated with
your credit card, now, likely due to privacy/security concerns, when you
want the receipt to be emailed to you, you need to type your email address
each time. Now, many people do not know their email address especially when
the system originally suggested for an already used email address was to
add a number to the email address. michelle@mailbox is taken but
michelle1@mailbox is free

Apple does not email credit card details in receipts. Well like in all
receipts, they only print the last 4 numbers of your credit card.

I'm not sure what is the solution here...

On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Michelle Sullivan 
wrote:

> Thoughts and suggestions people...
>
> I have about 2500 facebook and twitter accounts (current count) hitting my
> server on a daily basis  Neither Facebook nor Twitter seem to stop
> sending to them even with 550 User Unknown messages at SMTP time everytime
> they send... anyone know how to get these shut off, or would the only way
> be "hijack" all 2500 accounts and delete them?
>
> (linked in on the other hand are doing the right thing it seems - they
> stop sending after a couple of rejects..)
>
> Have a similar (though substantially smaller numbers) with Apple iCloud
> accounts... main problem there is people sending receipts for their
> purchases... you'd think they (the consumers) might be worried about a
> third-party getting all their (valid) credit card details, but I guess
> not
>
> Michelle
>
> --
> Michelle Sullivan
> http://www.mhix.org/
>
>
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