[Marxism] Eritrean refugee murdered in Dresden
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Monday night, sometime after the latest racist PEGIDA march or 25,000 in Dresden, a 20-year-old Eritrean refugee, Khaled Idris Bahray, was stabbed to death in Dresden. He left his apartment, where he lived with 7 other Eritrean asylum seekers, to buy some groceries before the shops closed. That was the last his room-mates saw of him. His body was found early next morning in a pool of blood near the front door of his apartment block. Initially the police announced that there were no indications foul play, despite the pool of blood and stab wounds in his throat and upper body!!! In addition, the site where the body was found wasn't secured for forensic examination until 24 hours after its discovery!!! Police have now opened a murder inquiry and are interviewing 23 suspects, i.e. his 7 room-mates and 16 other Eritreans who came to express their condolences!!! On Twitter and Facebook many people have expressed disbelief at the behaviour of the police and even in the mainstream press some questions are now being raised. However, there has also been a flood of race-hate on Facebook and Twitter - one person stated one less mouth to feed, this being one of the milder remarks. Here is a report from the Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/14/eritrean-dresden-germany-murder-inquiry Einde O'Callaghan _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: LENIN'S TOMB: This isn't really about free speech, is it? - Letter to Apostate Windbag
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * This controversy is bringing out the best of Richard Seymour. What a great pleasure I take out of his withering scorn. I am practically green with envy. http://www.leninology.co.uk/2015/01/this-isnt-really-about-free-speech-is.html _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * What CH does is use extremists of color as an excuse to use the traditional racist caricatures to imply by their focused coverage that non-white people are responsible for the main problems in the world. CH is racism done the modern way, It has the distant of deniablity that so-called Marxists like Dan can support. Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com Linux Beach Productions Venice, CA 90291 (310) 581-1536 Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/ http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] JeSuisCharlie???
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Clay Claiborne said: Thank you Charles. After reading how Charlie Hebdo has had an obsessive anti-Islamic focus since 9/11/2001 and seeing millions of people unwittingly uniting with that history under the popular hash tag #JeSuisCharlie (I'm with Charlie) in the name of freedom of speech, I sought to fashion an effective agitational response that would sharply point out what was wrong with raising this slogan in defense of free speech. So: #JeSuisCharlie? Its one thing to support the Nazi's right to march. It is quite another to march with them. and #JeSuisCharlie? Its one thing to support the KKK's freedom of speech. It is quite another say Je Suis KKK. Since the medium of this campaign is twitter, I had to fit my agitation into 140 characters or less. I suspect Ken's nuanced and long winded writing style doesn't understand twitter too well. I posted it here because I think it is a good example of political agitation and education on twitter, not to start an inflamed discussion on this list about the differences between Charlie and Adolph. Ken Hiebert replies: Thank you for your explanatory remarks. It is no credit to me that I have failed to adopt social media such as Facebook and Twitter. It is to your credit that you are taking the battle of ideas to those media. Whatever your intention, when I saw your message I could see us heading into a heated and not very enlightening exchange. I wrote a hasty response, hoping to head off such an exchange. And for the moment, it looks as if we have avoided that. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] PM Netanyahu reveals what makes the State of Israel special
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * i think this is excellent, Clay, http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2015/01/pm-netanyahu-reveals-what-makes-state.html makes me think of Lenni Brenner's *51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis* while doing everything possible to remove the indigenous Palestinians, Israel welcomes any Jew in the world to become part of the state of Israel and has neglected to ever limit its expansion by committing to an eastern boundary On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 5:01 PM, Clay Claiborne via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: New from Linux Beach: PM Netanyahu reveals what makes the State of Israel special http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2015/01/pm-netanyahu-reveals-what-makes-state.html http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/daynegoodwin%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * First of all, Charb’s family discounts the relationship claimed by Bougrab. They may be wrong, or perhaps just embarrassed by any idea that he was associated with a Sarkozy minister, but I think people should be aware that it is contested. Second, I’m totally unsurprised that Coates gushes about the position taken by some politically degenerate, Islamophobic tankies, but who in their right mind defers to L’Humanite? Third, I’m equally unsurprised by his total failure to engage with any of the criticisms made of the specific Islamophobic content, which was plentiful. This is because, I think, Coates is himself an Islamophobic racist who basically sees no problem with cartoons about goat-fucking Muslims, or the “sex jihadists” hoax, or the cartoon recapitulating the ‘Mohammed is a paedo’ myth. On 14 Jan 2015, at 12:39, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: LENIN'S TOMB: This isn't really about free speech, is it? - Letter to Apostate Windbag
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * That seems to be pretty badly grounded, and confuses freedom of expression with freedom from criticism. It is clear from Leigh's article that he's not saying anyone should be compelled to express solidarity for Charlie, or to republish their work, or to not consider them racists. So making a false equivalence between criticising the position of those who do otherwise with restricting their freedom to express such a position is incredibly disingenuous. --David. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] LENIN'S TOMB: This isn't really about free speech, is it? - Letter to Apostate Windbag
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 1/14/15 5:21 PM, Lenin's Tomb via Marxism wrote: Well, as I’m on this list, I’m in a position to clarify this point: where does my piece say that Leigh is restricting anyone’s freedom to express an opinion? So is Leigh Phillips--at least he was at one point. After reading Richard's post, I realized that this is the same guy who writes articles promoting GMO, nuclear power et al. I always thought his stuff had a Furediesque aroma but never knew that he was in the RCP. It all makes sense now, particularly conjoined with the free speech libertarianism of Spiked Online. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: The Funnies – The New Inquiry
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://thenewinquiry.com/blogs/zunguzungu/the-funnies/ Rape cartoons are funny if it’s inconceivable to you that you could ever be raped. If you live in a bubble of gender privilege that insulates you from all consequences of rape culture. AIDS jokes are funny if you’ve never loved someone who died of AIDS. If you live in a bubble that allows you not to know that millions of Africans died, thousands of gay men died, of criminal state indifference and denialism. Because they were, after all, only blacks and queers. Comedy material, not lives worth grieving. Ebola cartoons are funny. Unless your partner is a public health doctor, forced to choose every day between treating patients without protective clothing or abandoning them to save her own life. Cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed naked, on all fours, anus presented as target, are anti-clerical snigger fodder. Unless you and half the men and boys and boy children and baby boys you know and love are named Mohammed. Unless you and your brothers, cousins, fathers, sons, friends are at daily risk of random causeless stop-and-frisks, patdown-gropes, strip-searches, cavity-searches inside Enlightened Fortress Europe. Because they can. Unless your grandfather Mohammed was raped and castrated by the French in their concentration camps in Algeria. Unless your mother survives daily harassment and threats of violence by Front National thugs in her banlieue by invoking the mercy of the Prophet on the ignorant. Unless all the naked bodies in the Abu Ghraib torture photos look like you. Naked prone men, trailing blood, dragged on leashes by grinning US soldiers. Naked men piled in flesh sculptures by thumbs-up flashing, beaming young GIs. Naked brown Mohammed buttocks branded with cigarette burns like pointillist skin canvases. Mohammeds hooded and wired, bleeding from mouth and ears and anus, as their torturers laugh and strike poses. Naked violated men who look like you, like your brother, like your father, like the man your sweet baby boy will grow up to be. Unless you and your friends pass around testimonies like dirty stories from survivors of CIA anal rape, also known as rectal rehydration. Survivors of Guantanamo oral rape, also known as force-feeding. Because you need to testify before they happen to you. This is survival lore. Unless your little sister came home sobbing last week and screamed she would never go back to school, the school your parents dreamed for her before she was born. It took hours of coaxing and comforting to elicit why. The bully who makes her schooldays hell found a delicious new cruelty, one that follows her beyond school like an electronic ankle tag. He put that cartoon up on the classroom whiteboard, and the teacher left it there all day as a lesson in free speech. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 14/01/2015 20:53, Clay Claiborne wrote: What CH does is use extremists of color as an excuse to use the traditional racist caricatures to imply by their focused coverage that non-white people are responsible for the main problems in the world. So the existence of extremists of color, I suppose you mean fundamentalist Salafists that are funded by Saoudi Arabia and Pakistan to assert social control, are used as an excuse to criticize said Salafists by depicting them as bigoted, crazy and intolerant. And this depiction of extremists is racist, even traditionally so, because ? Furthermore, Charlie Hebdo never implied that non-white people are responsible for the main problems of the world. Quite the reverse in fact. CH is a left-wing publication that criticized Fortress Europe and US Imperialism for the problems of the world. Which means real American Marxists like Clay have never read CH, only seen a couple of drawings criticizing vicious bigots which they then interpret - or rather are told to interpret - as a sign that Charlie is racist. The staff of CH was gunned down while they were discussing how to combat the rise of right-wing populism embodied by the National Front. That was the topic of the meeting when the Kouachi brothers came in, shouted Where is Charb?, then gunned down Charb, Cabu a stubborn anti-war activist, 80-year old Wolinski of the CP, left-wing economist Bernard Maris and a proof-reader. Lançon was grieviously wounded. I am sick of this Americano-centrist worldview by people who do not read French, have never read the articles carried by CH, and send me absurd emails like no to marching with nazis in Paris. French leftists usualy try to avoid simplistic depictions of ugly americans as fat, ignorant, gun totting WASPS although IMHO this does carry a grain of truth. Would American leftists please make an effort to try and understand that French people are not arrogant, racist chauvinists? And as for calling me racist because I actively support a multicultural French society and struggle against deportations and Fortress Europe, well, all I can say is... What? What can you say to an insult that is so obviously false? If you, and your Yankee ilk brought up in a country whose motto is In God We Trust, fail to see that Salafism is not a victim but an oppressor, what materialist arguments can I muster? I'll just return the compliment and call it a day : Fascist yourself ! _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Hi Dan, Personally, I don't think EVERYTHING YOU SAY is racist, just like I don't think EVERYTHING CH EVER PRINTED is racist. There is a difference between saying certain ideas are racist/discriminatory and that you or someone else is a member of the Nazi Party. The cartoons that are racist are the ones that use stereotyped imagery to pose Islam as a cultural threat. At no point did they point the finger at Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, as regimes, from what I am seeing in their cartoons the depictions are about an amorphous category called the Muslims or even fundamentalist Islam. Those categories are, in my view, racist or at the very least demeaning and insulting. - Amith On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 4:17 PM, Dan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 14/01/2015 20:53, Clay Claiborne wrote: What CH does is use extremists of color as an excuse to use the traditional racist caricatures to imply by their focused coverage that non-white people are responsible for the main problems in the world. So the existence of extremists of color, I suppose you mean fundamentalist Salafists that are funded by Saoudi Arabia and Pakistan to assert social control, are used as an excuse to criticize said Salafists by depicting them as bigoted, crazy and intolerant. And this depiction of extremists is racist, even traditionally so, because ? Furthermore, Charlie Hebdo never implied that non-white people are responsible for the main problems of the world. Quite the reverse in fact. CH is a left-wing publication that criticized Fortress Europe and US Imperialism for the problems of the world. Which means real American Marxists like Clay have never read CH, only seen a couple of drawings criticizing vicious bigots which they then interpret - or rather are told to interpret - as a sign that Charlie is racist. The staff of CH was gunned down while they were discussing how to combat the rise of right-wing populism embodied by the National Front. That was the topic of the meeting when the Kouachi brothers came in, shouted Where is Charb?, then gunned down Charb, Cabu a stubborn anti-war activist, 80-year old Wolinski of the CP, left-wing economist Bernard Maris and a proof-reader. Lançon was grieviously wounded. I am sick of this Americano-centrist worldview by people who do not read French, have never read the articles carried by CH, and send me absurd emails like no to marching with nazis in Paris. French leftists usualy try to avoid simplistic depictions of ugly americans as fat, ignorant, gun totting WASPS although IMHO this does carry a grain of truth. Would American leftists please make an effort to try and understand that French people are not arrogant, racist chauvinists? And as for calling me racist because I actively support a multicultural French society and struggle against deportations and Fortress Europe, well, all I can say is... What? What can you say to an insult that is so obviously false? If you, and your Yankee ilk brought up in a country whose motto is In God We Trust, fail to see that Salafism is not a victim but an oppressor, what materialist arguments can I muster? I'll just return the compliment and call it a day : Fascist yourself ! _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/ options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] LENIN'S TOMB: This isn't really about free speech, is it? - Letter to Apostate Windbag
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Well, as I’m on this list, I’m in a position to clarify this point: where does my piece say that Leigh is restricting anyone’s freedom to express an opinion? On 14 Jan 2015, at 22:18, David P Á via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * That seems to be pretty badly grounded, and confuses freedom of expression with freedom from criticism. It is clear from Leigh's article that he's not saying anyone should be compelled to express solidarity for Charlie, or to republish their work, or to not consider them racists. So making a false equivalence between criticising the position of those who do otherwise with restricting their freedom to express such a position is incredibly disingenuous. --David. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/leninstombblog%40googlemail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Sickening
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Daniel Koechlin said: The difference between you and me, Dennis, is that I am out there helping the weak and powerless, the undocumented immigarnts that are exploited and suffer from racism. I am out there, doing my bit in the same union, and supporting the massive strikes by undocumented immigrants in the hotel industry in France. I am out there helping undocumented comrades from the service union spread the word and resit their opressor. You, on the other hand, are out there claiming that reactionary forces have a right to crush the weakest and most vulnerable : women and Muslim immigrants, under the heel of patriarchy and obscurantism. That is the essential difference between me and you. Do you not realize that religious conservatism is the handmaiden of capitalism ? I would think that the ability to distinguish between the oppressed and oppressor is the ABC of any type of leftist worldview. Ken Hiebert replies: It appears that you have more contact that I do with Muslim immigrants. In your experience did Charlie Hebdo and its cartoons have the effect of freeing women and Muslim immigrants from the heel of patriarchy and obscurantism? _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Just When You Think Things Could Not Get Any Worse...
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/01/14/1357661/-Poisonings-beatings-gassings-Record-346-inmates-die-dozens-of-guards-fired-in-Florida-prisons# While Reuters reports http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/21/us-usa-prison-florida-idUSKBN0HG05120140921 that 32 prison guards and officers were fired across the state this past September related to dozens of cases of abuse, corruption, and death, one should lose a lot more than their job for poisoning, gassing, or beating inmates to death. This is not enough. It's not even close to being enough. These officers should be indicted and convicted of murder and given the stiffest penalty allowed under law. They've not only abused their power, but they've abused it at the expense of citizens who are virtually defenseless in our country. It's unacceptable. With the hope that it motivates you to push the cause of prison reform and justice for the officers who murdered these men and women, I'd like to tell you the story of Darren Rainey. Fifty years old, battling mental illness, and serving two years in the psychiatric ward of the Dade County prison for the victimless nonviolent offense of cocaine possession without the intent to distribute, Darren Rainey would soon experience a death so cruel and so violent and so unthinkably heinous that we would expect such a thing to happen only in a country governed by a so-called evil dictator. It's almost too ugly to type. After allegedly defecating in his cell, Rainey was handcuffed and locked into a tight shower cell and blasted for nearly two hours with water that was over 180 scolding hot degrees in temperature. Begging for his life, screaming apologies and remorse so loud that other inmates could hear them, the officers kept the water so hot and forceful that the steam began to melt off Darren Rainey's skin. Video shows Rainey forced into the shower at 7:38 PM and he was pronounced dead at 9:30 PM. Mark Joiner, a prisoner in Dade County, was called in to clean up the chunks of skin left behind. He detailed it for the *Miami Herald*: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article1972693.html#storylink=cpy - cut --- _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Re: Frank Fried 1927-2015
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * (From Alan Wald) I always liked Frank for his irreverent nature. I think the first time I met him was in the early 1980s. John Barzman and I went to his home in Hollywood to solicit support for what we hoped would be a new Marxist journal. (Somehow we imagined that there weren't enough such journals already.) Instead of a check we got a stern lecture on how such a magazine must take after the British journal International Socialism. We explained that, although we certainly admired this, we had nowhere near the resources for that kind of project. Frank then said that John and I were two sorry-assed revolutionaries. As he made these remarks he was standing next to his rather impressive swimming pool; his home had once belonged to Marilyn Monroe, the one in which she committed suicide. (Or at least this is what Barzman told me.) Later I developed a relationship with Frank by bombarding him with constant questions about the Socialist Union, American Socialists, and the Cochranite tendency. My interest started after I began to associate with Milt Zaslow (Bartell) in 1972, and deepened after I became friends with David Herreshoff in Michigan in 1975. Frank insisted to me that Cochran had the ability to become the American Deutscher, but was personally a prick. I visited Cochran in his office at Columbia, but all he wanted to do was talk about opera--something about which I knew (and still know) nothing. My last conversation with Frank was about two months ago, a phone interview about George Clarke, whose writings in the Fourth International I had been reading. Frank recalled all the details of Clarke's remarkable political career, but knew absolutely nothing personally. I pointed out that I was unable to locate any reference to Clarke's birth or death dates on the Social Security Index, even though there are dates given in SWP publications and the Marxist Internet Archive, nor have any obituaries turned up. Frank was perplexed and we both wondered if, in fact, Clarke was not a birth name (just as Cochran wasn't). He promised to check into the matter with some of his few surviving comrades I also recall attending the memorial he hosted at Frank's home in Berkeley for Ernest Mandel. It was the last time I saw the remarkable Asher Harer. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] France Arrests a Comedian for His Facebook Comments, Showing the Sham of the West's 'Free Speech' Celebration
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * by Glenn Greenwald https://firstlook.org/theintercept/greenwald _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Kenan Malik on Charlie Hebdo and free speech
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/01/15/charlie-hebdo-radical-islam-pusillanimous-liberals-and-free-speech/ Phil _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Kenan Malik on Charlie Hebdo and free speech
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I think there's a bit of essentialising there Dennis. A lot of people who live in the 'Muslim world' are not religious and/or not Muslim. Kenan was talking about progressive *people* doing battle with fundamentalist Islam and state islam in what are rather too casually-labelled 'Muslim countries'. A good example would be Iran, which is one of the least religious countries in the world. Attached to the article is a picture of a rally of Tunisians in Tunis in support of the free speech rights of Charlie Hebdo, so I'm surprised you ask for a list of people and their testimonials. Phil On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Dennis Brasky dmozart1...@gmail.com wrote: So, disgusting and offensive cartoons about Mohammed are necessary ammunition for progressive Muslims doing battle with fundamentalists?? Please cite some of these pro-Charlie Muslims and their testimonials. On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 9:07 PM, Philip Ferguson via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/01/15/charlie-hebdo-radical-islam-pusillanimous-liberals-and-free-speech/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: French Muslims feel deeply torn by viral ‘I am Charlie’ slogan - The Washington Post
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Unemployment and poverty remain far higher among France’s Muslims than in the nation overall. Joblessness and poverty are particularly high in heavily Muslim Paris suburbs such as Gennevilliers, an area of sprawling, dense apartment blocks where at least one of the gunmen — Chérif Kouachi, 32 — lived. On the streets here, Charlie Hebdo remains something different, a symbol of what some, such as Mohamed Binakdan, 32, describe as the everyday humiliation of Muslims in France. “You go to a nightclub, and they don’t let you in,” said Binakdan, a transit worker in Paris. “You go to a party, they look at your beard, and say, ‘Oh, when are you going to Syria to join the jihad?’ Charlie Hebdo is a part of that, too. Those who are stronger than us are mocking us. We have high unemployment, high poverty. Religion is all we have left. This is sacred to us. And yes, we have a hard time laughing about it.” full: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/they-are-not-charlie/2015/01/13/7c9d6998-9aae-11e4-86a3-1b56f64925f6_story.html _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Imperialism and the Middle East
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * A selection of articles we've got at Redline on the subject, ranging from how US imperialism created Osama Bin Laden to a thousand years of western plunder and invasion of the Middle East to the origins, economics and politics of Islamic State to an examination of Wahabbism Salafism to examinations of Iraq and Syria: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/01/12/imperialism-and-the-middle-east/ As we're in solidarity with the PFLP, we frequently run PFLP statements and other material by them, along with other radical Palestinian voices. We have 77 PFLP pieces at: https://rdln.wordpress.com/category/pflp/ See also our Palestine section, which has 134 pieces: https://rdln.wordpress.com/category/palestine/ Many of these articles also are in our 'Israel' category, which has 124 articles, but this category also includes some additional material about Israel/Zionism: https://rdln.wordpress.com/category/israel/ Phil _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Kenan Malik on secular leftism, radical Islam and multiculturalism
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * This is actually the introduction to his book *From Fatwa to Jihad*: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/01/15/secular-leftism-multiculturalism-and-islamic-fundamentalism/ Phil _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Kenan Malik on Charlie Hebdo and free speech
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 1/14/15 9:07 PM, Philip Ferguson via Marxism wrote https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/01/15/charlie-hebdo-radical-islam-pusillanimous-liberals-and-free-speech/ To ridicule religion and to defend free expression is not to attack minority communities. On the contrary: without doing both it is impossible to defend the freedoms of Muslims or of any one else. The problem is that in France some people are more equal than others. Although I can't stand him, Dieudonne is now under arrest for an innocent quip. Hate speech laws have been used him numerous times against him, all because Jews have a different relationship to the state than Muslims. The state acts on their behalf all the time, banning protests against Gaza most recently. As someone who has taken up the cause of the FSA in Syria for the past 4 years, I am deeply opposed to the totalitarian nature of ISIS and the al-Nusra Front. Muslims do need to be able to express their ideas in civil society in order to organize against the various dictatorships through the Middle East and North Africa but this campaign on behalf of the Charlie Abdo agenda has nothing to do with that. The French bourgeoisie, along with its partners in Britain and the USA, desires stability above all else. This means muzzling the Palestinians, shoring up Saudi Arabia, and making life miserable for immigrants from mostly Muslim countries. People refer to Charlie Hebdo's opposition to the National Front. Well, whatever articles they have written against them is undermined by their commitment to what I alluded to in my article on Representing Mohammad. By making the decision to publish the Danish Jutland Post cartoons, they aligned themselves with Bush's war in Iraq, white nationalism and xenophobia. I know that it is difficult for people to understand how a group of people can operate on contradictory motives but that's what living in a racist society can do to you. In doing some research on Birth of a Nation, a film that glorified the KKK, I discovered that James Agee--one of my heroes--wrote a glowing review in the Nation Magazine and condemned the NAACP for picketing it. People are complicated. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] JeSuisCharlie???
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * exactly. - Original Message - From: Clay Claiborne via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 7:35:06 AM Subject: [Marxism] JeSuisCharlie??? POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * #*JeSuisCharlie* https://twitter.com/clayclai/status/555165483138174976? Its one thing to support the Nazi's right to march. It is quite another to march with them Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com Linux Beach Productions Venice, CA 90291 (310) 581-1536 Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/ http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/lacenaire%40comcast.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: On the Death of the Irreplaceable Mike Marqusee | The Nation
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[Marxism] Fwd: Thanks date correction on Frank Fried memorial
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Hi Louis, Thanks for the notice and kind words about Frank on Marxmail. If you can, please correct the date I erroneously gave as Jan. 7 to Jan. 13. I was pretty melancholy all evening and wasn't thinking too straight. Frank proved you could be a hard Marxist and still be a soft human being. My Best, Carl _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Sickening
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 01/14/2015 02:30 PM, Dennis Brasky wrote: re: equating satire and ridicule of the religion of the powerful (Catholic Church) with degrading the religion of the weak and powerless - The difference between you and me, Dennis, is that I am out there helping the weak and powerless, the undocumented immigarnts that are exploited and suffer from racism. I am out there, doing my bit in the same union, and supporting the massive strikes by undocumented immigrants in the hotel industry in France. I am out there helping undocumented comrades from the service union spread the word and resit their opressor. You, on the other hand, are out there claiming that reactionary forces have a right to crush the weakest and most vulnerable : women and Muslim immigrants, under the heel of patriarchy and obscurantism. That is the essential difference between me and you. Do you not realize that religious conservatism is the handmaiden of capitalism ? I would think that the ability to distinguish between the oppressed and oppressor is the ABC of any type of leftist worldview. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] JeSuisCharlie???
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Thank you Charles. After reading how Charlie Hebdo has had an obsessive anti-Islamic focus since 9/11/2001 and seeing millions of people unwittingly uniting with that history under the popular hash tag #JeSuisCharlie (I'm with Charlie) in the name of freedom of speech, I sought to fashion an effective agitational response that would sharply point out what was wrong with raising this slogan in defense of free speech. So: #JeSuisCharlie? Its one thing to support the Nazi's right to march. It is quite another to march with them. and #JeSuisCharlie? Its one thing to support the KKK's freedom of speech. It is quite another say Je Suis KKK. Since the medium of this campaign is twitter, I had to fit my agitation into 140 characters or less. I suspect Ken's nuanced and long winded writing style doesn't understand twitter too well. I posted it here because I think it is a good example of political agitation and education on twitter, not to start an inflamed discussion on this list about the differences between Charlie and Adolph. Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com Linux Beach Productions Venice, CA 90291 (310) 581-1536 Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/ http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] From Teenage Angst to Jihad The Anger of Europe’s Young Marginalized Muslims
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * timely and believable. thanks. - Original Message - From: Ken Hiebert via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 9:21:57 AM Subject: [Marxism] From Teenage Angst to Jihad The Anger of Europe’s Young Marginalized Muslims POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/14/opinion/the-anger-of-europes-young-marginalized-muslims.html _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/lacenaire%40comcast.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] JeSuisCharlie???
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Clay Claiborne said: #*JeSuisCharlie* https://twitter.com/clayclai/status/555165483138174976? Its one thing to support the Nazi's right to march. It is quite another to march with them Ken Hiebert replies: Such a remark will inflame the discussion and add little to our understanding. Based on what I have seen I am inlined to think that the cartoons, whatever the intention was, were stupid, misguided and lent themselves to an Islamophobic view. That is a long way from being Nazi. In any case, do we really support the right of Nazis to march? I, and I think others on this list, do not support government measures to prevent them from marching. We do support mobilizations of working people and targeted minorities to prevent the Nazis from marching. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] JeSuisCharlie???,
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * In any case, do we really support the right of Nazis to march? I, and I think others on this list, do not support government measures to prevent them from marching. We do support mobilizations of working people and targeted minorities to prevent the Nazis from marching. No, we don't. We *oppose* or should the State's banning of marches and political currents based on a supposed 'anti-racist' position. But this doesn't mean we defend and think it's OK for Nazi's to march. We don't support 'free speech for fascists' as their marching is a form of organizing and terror and we defend ourselves through counter-mobilizing to run them off the streets. I remember some comrades in the SWP back when the Nazis were planning for a march through the heavily Jewish section of a Chicago suburb (with a large number of Holocaust survivors) argued, correctly IMO, that we 'want them to march'...so the community can kick their asses out of town. But we don't want the bosses government to do this since it would be used against the workers and communities of the oppressed. David _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] JeSuisCharlie???
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * i think clay's message is an example of stating an extreme to establish a principle, not make a direct comparison. allowing doesn't mean joining is how i took clay's message. - Original Message - From: Ken Hiebert via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 8:55:35 AM Subject: Re: [Marxism] JeSuisCharlie??? POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Clay Claiborne said: #*JeSuisCharlie* https://twitter.com/clayclai/status/555165483138174976? Its one thing to support the Nazi's right to march. It is quite another to march with them Ken Hiebert replies: Such a remark will inflame the discussion and add little to our understanding. Based on what I have seen I am inlined to think that the cartoons, whatever the intention was, were stupid, misguided and lent themselves to an Islamophobic view. That is a long way from being Nazi. In any case, do we really support the right of Nazis to march? I, and I think others on this list, do not support government measures to prevent them from marching. We do support mobilizations of working people and targeted minorities to prevent the Nazis from marching. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/lacenaire%40comcast.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] From Teenage Angst to Jihad The Anger of Europe’s Young Marginalized Muslims
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/14/opinion/the-anger-of-europes-young-marginalized-muslims.html _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] JeSuisCharlie???,
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Its perfectly okay if you want to branch my original post off into this tangent as long as you recognize the fact that the statement: #JeSuisCharlie? Its one thing to support the Nazis right to march and quite another thing to march with them. Does not imply that anyone, even the writer, does in fact support the Nazis' right to march, only that there is a big political difference between between these two stands. Further, this was directed at people who probably do support the Nazis's right to march but won't march with them but are now doing both with the extreme Islamaphobic Charlie Hebdo. Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com Linux Beach Productions Venice, CA 90291 (310) 581-1536 Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/ http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Judith Butler - What's Wrong With 'All Lives Matter'? - NYTimes.com
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * After considering all the hue and cry about 17 Europeans killed by 3 jihadists, while looking at the picture of yet another dead Syrian baby and reading about maybe 2000 Nigerians just slaughtered by Boko Haram, I came up with what I think speaks to the larger question and added to my current blog post http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2015/01/pm-netanyahu-reveals-what-makes-state.html : NON-WHITE LIVES MATTER! Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com Linux Beach Productions Venice, CA 90291 (310) 581-1536 Read my blogs at the Linux Beach http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/ http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Sickening
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Dan is clearly a hopeless racist. wrote Andrew Pollock. Yea, of course ! I'm a hopeless racist whose wife is Indian and has two beautiful children of mixed European and Indian ancestry. I'm a hopeless racist who spends his time demonstrating against the deportation of undocumented immigrants and against the NAtional Front. I'm a hopeless racist who beleives in freedom and equality for all, regardless of race, gender, creed or sexual orientation. I'm a hopeless racist who has been a member of the most left-wing and radical trade unions, those that have always fought for equality and the emancipation of the WHOLE of mankind. Yea.. Yea And you Andrew are a snide little ... _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * thanks louis. as short as it is that's still the best explanation and portrayal on behalf of the charlie hebdo folks i've read. quite touching in fact. he's right i don't whinge about family guy. i'm not exactly a champion either, am leery of their apparent libertarian (party) leanings, and am fairly confident that if they were the victims of similar acts i would weigh their work with the same scale. i also am confident that i would call for justice on behalf of the victims as i have done for the victims of these recent days. i want to be clear. the recent murders were heinous crimes. to the extent i am able i share in the mourning of the dead. i am quite prepared to listen to those who knew them and accept the descriptions of their finer qualities. what is not apparent to me is that rallying around charlie hebdo is part of a solution to our problem. it is not apparent because i believe charlie hebdo crossed the line into racism, whatever else they did, and that is inconsistent with my vision of a more just world. it seems to me we are in a position to understand what causes young muslims (primarily arab) to act so desperately. it seems to me that there are some obvious origins. it seems to me that socialism provides the way out of this apparent hopelessness. - Original Message - From: Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu To: Charles Faulkner lacena...@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 4:39:51 AM Subject: Re: [Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * (This is forwarded from Andrew Coates. As a reminder to Andrew and any other digest subscribers, you need to clip the digest if you are replying to a message contained within it or else your reply will be held up for moderator approval.) As somebody who actually has print copies of Charlie, who read it in 1980 - it halted in the 1980s until a relaunch in 1992 - and have read it since when I can get copies or visit France - I can only agree with those who defend our beloved Charlie. They are specialists in Bad Taste - something I note is the basis of Family Guy (which I don't see any US leftists whinge about). There are so many cartoons in each issue (I was looking at a few copies I have kept and gave up counting after thirty per issue) that it would be hard to be exact about this. But they defend the rights of immigrants, sexual minorities, and social freedoms, as well as liberty of expression. The targeted the Front National, militarism, and satirised all religions. The wonderful cartoonist 'Cabu' (Jean Cabut), murdered last week was a red-green leftists - gentle, ecology minded, person who was universally loved. I have collections of his cartoons. He was one of the most loved people in France and by French speakers internationally. The very first article I had published in English, circa 1984 (in the Socialist Society's bulletin) on the rise of the Front National used Cabu's cartoons as illustrations. The Editor Stéphane Charbonnier (Charb) was a supporter of the Front de gauche and a contributor to the communist aligned paper,L'Humanité . His partner Jeannette Bougrab, is of North African origin. Wolinski, another of those killed, was also a L'Humanité contributor and more closely identified with the French Communist Party. I note that L'Humanité has backed our beloved Charlie to the hilt - as has the French left more broadly. Frankly many of us deeply insulted by attempts to portray Charlie as 'racist'. Andrew Coates _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/lacenaire%40comcast.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Sickening
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * re: equating satire and ridicule of the religion of the powerful (Catholic Church) with degrading the religion of the weak and powerless - ”You claim for yourself the tradition of anticlericalism, but pretend not to know the fundamental difference between this and Islamophobia. The first comes from a long, hard and fierce struggle against a Catholic priesthood which actually had formidable power, which had - and still has - its own newspapers, legislators, lobbies, literary salons and a huge property portfolio. The second attacks members of a minority faith deprived of any kind of influence in the corridors of power. It consists of distracting attention from the well-fed interests which rule this country, in favour of inciting the mob against citizens who haven’t been invited to the party, if you want to take the trouble to realise that - for most of them - colonisation, immigration and discrimination have not given them the most favourable place in French society. Is it too much to ask a team which, in your words “is divided between leftists, extreme leftists, anarchists and Greens”, to take a tiny bit of interest in the history of our country and its social reality? http://www.leninology.co.uk/2015/01/charlie-hebdo-not-racist-if-you-say-so. I would think that the ability to distinguish between the oppressed and oppressor is the ABC of any type of leftist worldview. On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 7:49 AM, Daniel Koechlin via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Well Charb and Cahrlie Hebdo was fiercely opposed to the deportations of illegal aliens from France : if you call that racist, then you have the right not to be Charlie but I doubt you undesrtand the meaning of the word. Charb and Charlie Hebdo were long time participants in RESF, the largest French organization opposing deportations of undocumented immigrants and actively hidding and providing sanctuary to those that were the targets of racist policies. This whole condamnation of Charlie Hebdo as racist because they criticized religious fundamentalism stinks to high heaven. Fortunately, French Muslims are saying NON! to those who want to impose a reactionary worldview on them and supporting Charlie Hebdo, even buying copies. They have not been reduced to the level of religious alienation of their brethern in countries controled by fundamentalists, where the majority of the population supports the death penalty for atheists and the amputation of thieves. They want their voice to be heard : it is OK to criticize religion, even benifecial in the long run. Repeating the fundamentalist views of extremist organizations funded by the Qatari government that all criticism of Islam is an example of Western racism and incensitivity is both short-sighted and indeed sickening. On 01/14/2015 03:49 AM, Charles Faulkner wrote: i am not charlie because of its racism. charlie hebdo does not provide a standard for me to follow. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/ options/marxism/dmozart1756%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Solidarity with Leonid Tikhonov, leader of Russian dockworkers' union, convicted in a frame-up
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * https://therussianreader.wordpress.com/2015/01/14/free-leonid-tikhonov/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Open records and academic freedom come to a head in Kansas @insidehighered
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * A tug of war is brewing at the University of Kansas. On one side the rope are privacy protections in the name of academic freedom. On the other, a pull for public’s right to know. Somewhere in the center hovers the challenge of balancing competing interests of transparency and scholars’ privacy. A Kansas student group says it wants to investigate the relationship between a university lecturer and Charles and David Koch, who fund the employee’s work. The group suspects Art Hall, the director of the university's Center for Applied Economics, of being a “stealth lobbyist” for the billionaire Koch brothers, who are known for their conservative views. full: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/01/14/open-records-and-academic-freedom-come-head-kansas _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Workers World Party contradicts itself on Hebdo killings
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * A day after workers.org featured an article by WWP leader Sara Flounders suggesting the Charlie Hebdo assassinations were a French police conspiracy, a second WWP leader has contradicted this. Fred Goldstein writes: while some think that the attack was a set-up engineered by Paris, the movement has to deal with this as a political matter and not rely on conspiracy theories, unless significant new information comes to light http://www.workers.org/articles/2015/01/13/racism-imperialism-behind-paris-killings/ -- The salient portions of the original Flounders statement: Regardless of whether a police conspiracy is ever exposed, we do know that the French ruling class and the corporate media are always primed to take full advantage of such acts to reinforce the repressive state apparatus and sow division among the working class. There should not be an iota of confidence in the news stories of this massacre at Charlie Hebdo. We know only what we are being told in the corporate media by French military police and state intelligence agencies. We do know that three men, who are now dead, were tools of imperialism in their wars of conquest in Syria and Libya. More than 1,000 French citizens of Arab and North African descent have been recruited, trained, armed and used as weapons conduits, saboteurs and terrorists in the efforts of U.S. France, Britain, Turkey and Saudi Arabia to overthrow the government of Syria. This leads to the fundamental question of whose policies are responsible for the massacre and who gains from the massacre? Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, U.S. imperialism, aided by the old colonial powers of Europe, has been engaged in a whole series of wars to reconquer countries that had achieved a high level of development based on sovereignty and control of their resources http://www.workers.org/articles/2015/01/13/charlie-hebdo-free-press-racism/ _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * (This is forwarded from Andrew Coates. As a reminder to Andrew and any other digest subscribers, you need to clip the digest if you are replying to a message contained within it or else your reply will be held up for moderator approval.) As somebody who actually has print copies of Charlie, who read it in 1980 - it halted in the 1980s until a relaunch in 1992 - and have read it since when I can get copies or visit France - I can only agree with those who defend our beloved Charlie. They are specialists in Bad Taste - something I note is the basis of Family Guy (which I don't see any US leftists whinge about). There are so many cartoons in each issue (I was looking at a few copies I have kept and gave up counting after thirty per issue) that it would be hard to be exact about this. But they defend the rights of immigrants, sexual minorities, and social freedoms, as well as liberty of expression. The targeted the Front National, militarism, and satirised all religions. The wonderful cartoonist 'Cabu' (Jean Cabut), murdered last week was a red-green leftists - gentle, ecology minded, person who was universally loved. I have collections of his cartoons. He was one of the most loved people in France and by French speakers internationally. The very first article I had published in English, circa 1984 (in the Socialist Society's bulletin) on the rise of the Front National used Cabu's cartoons as illustrations. The Editor Stéphane Charbonnier (Charb) was a supporter of the Front de gauche and a contributor to the communist aligned paper,L'Humanité . His partner Jeannette Bougrab, is of North African origin. Wolinski, another of those killed, was also a L'Humanité contributor and more closely identified with the French Communist Party. I note that L'Humanité has backed our beloved Charlie to the hilt - as has the French left more broadly. Frankly many of us deeply insulted by attempts to portray Charlie as 'racist'. Andrew Coates _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Frank Fried 1927-2015
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * (Frank was one of the last surviving Cochranites. I never interviewed him but had a couple of phone conversations with him over the years. There will be an article commemorating his life at some point but for the time being it is worth noting that he transitioned from working in steel mills in Chicago to becoming a rock concert producer like Bill Graham. I invite you to look at his blog: http://www.showbizred.com/. On the home page it states: My name is Frank Fried. In the middle years of the 20th century I produced concerts and tours for some of the most influential and profitable musical acts of the day, such as Pete Seeger, the Beatles, Frank Zappa, Miriam Makeba, the Chad Mitchell Trio, Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones. What a lot of people didn't know is that this pop music impresario had started out as a socialist revolutionary -- a heritage I tried to honor throughout a tumultuous show business career. On this web site, I do my best to tell you what happened.) Dear Friends Comrades, Our dear friend and comrade, Frank Fried, passed away peacefully today, Tuesday, Jan. 7. His loving wife of 27 years, Alice, is planning a memorial and you will all be notified. It was only a few days ago that four close friends, Seymour Kramer, Jack Gerson, Robin David and myself were at Frank's bedside talking politics for several hours. Frank was unable to speak but he was able to muster enough energy to give us the middle finger and the raised fist at separate points during our discussions. Just like old times! Both gestures were well deserved by the way. We all loved Frank. In Solidarity, Carl Finamore _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Sickening
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Well Charb and Cahrlie Hebdo was fiercely opposed to the deportations of illegal aliens from France : if you call that racist, then you have the right not to be Charlie but I doubt you undesrtand the meaning of the word. Charb and Charlie Hebdo were long time participants in RESF, the largest French organization opposing deportations of undocumented immigrants and actively hidding and providing sanctuary to those that were the targets of racist policies. This whole condamnation of Charlie Hebdo as racist because they criticized religious fundamentalism stinks to high heaven. Fortunately, French Muslims are saying NON! to those who want to impose a reactionary worldview on them and supporting Charlie Hebdo, even buying copies. They have not been reduced to the level of religious alienation of their brethern in countries controled by fundamentalists, where the majority of the population supports the death penalty for atheists and the amputation of thieves. They want their voice to be heard : it is OK to criticize religion, even benifecial in the long run. Repeating the fundamentalist views of extremist organizations funded by the Qatari government that all criticism of Islam is an example of Western racism and incensitivity is both short-sighted and indeed sickening. On 01/14/2015 03:49 AM, Charles Faulkner wrote: i am not charlie because of its racism. charlie hebdo does not provide a standard for me to follow. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Charlie Hebdo not Racist
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 1/14/15 7:39 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: Frankly many of us deeply insulted by attempts to portray Charlie as 'racist'. Andrew Coates I am waiting to see if an important Muslim or secular leader of Arab or North African descent makes such a statement. There seems to be an utter disconnect between this sentiment and what I have been reading in various places. I have seen at least a dozen impassioned denunciations of Charlie Hebdo from leftist academics and activists that fit into this category but none extolling the magazine for its alleged leftist agenda. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
