Re: [MBZ] GUMP is DEAD

[Walt Zarnoch]

I've got a 2.4 with pump gremlins if that helps you any?

Walt

On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 2:36 AM, redghost  wrote:
> he has no runners that I know of, and SWMBA is no longer in the mood to
> humor my attempts to make Gump run.  Figure I just bank this for another day
> when I have a stupid desire for a car and I can trot out how I finally gave
> up on Gump and she should now humor me once more.
>
> Clay
>
>
>
> On Jul 22, 2011, at 11:27 PM, Walt Zarnoch wrote:
>
>> Why not pay Kaleb $250 a ton for a new engine?
>>
>> Walt
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 2:20 AM, redghost  wrote:
>>>
>>> Tear down and full rebuild, since there are leaks in seals and have to
>>> redo
>>> the cylinder walls.  Did not look much more at the short block for cracks
>>> there.  Threw in the towel since I just do not want to have the fight
>>> with
>>> SWMBA over my overly emotional attachment to Gump.  Best to let her
>>> go I
>>> can always find another wife anyway.
>>>
>>> Clay
>>>
>>> On Jul 22, 2011, at 11:11 PM, Jim Cathey wrote:
>>>
> some crazing on top of #1.  Crap!  That is a CRACK!  and there looks to
> be No way will I be able to swing a rebuild.

 Just a piston, innit?  Got a clutch of them down in the woods...

 -- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] GUMP is DEAD

[redghost]

he has no runners that I know of, and SWMBA is no longer in the mood  
to humor my attempts to make Gump run.  Figure I just bank this for  
another day when I have a stupid desire for a car and I can trot out  
how I finally gave up on Gump and she should now humor me once more.


Clay



On Jul 22, 2011, at 11:27 PM, Walt Zarnoch wrote:


Why not pay Kaleb $250 a ton for a new engine?

Walt

On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 2:20 AM, redghost   
wrote:
Tear down and full rebuild, since there are leaks in seals and have  
to redo
the cylinder walls.  Did not look much more at the short block for  
cracks
there.  Threw in the towel since I just do not want to have the  
fight with
SWMBA over my overly emotional attachment to Gump.  Best to let her  
go I

can always find another wife anyway.

Clay

On Jul 22, 2011, at 11:11 PM, Jim Cathey wrote:

some crazing on top of #1.  Crap!  That is a CRACK!  and there  
looks to

be No way will I be able to swing a rebuild.


Just a piston, innit?  Got a clutch of them down in the woods...

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] GUMP is DEAD

[Walt Zarnoch]

Why not pay Kaleb $250 a ton for a new engine?

Walt

On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 2:20 AM, redghost  wrote:
> Tear down and full rebuild, since there are leaks in seals and have to redo
> the cylinder walls.  Did not look much more at the short block for cracks
> there.  Threw in the towel since I just do not want to have the fight with
> SWMBA over my overly emotional attachment to Gump.  Best to let her go I
> can always find another wife anyway.
>
> Clay
>
> On Jul 22, 2011, at 11:11 PM, Jim Cathey wrote:
>
>>> some crazing on top of #1.  Crap!  That is a CRACK!  and there looks to
>>> be No way will I be able to swing a rebuild.
>>
>> Just a piston, innit?  Got a clutch of them down in the woods...
>>
>> -- Jim
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] GUMP is DEAD

[redghost]

Tear down and full rebuild, since there are leaks in seals and have to  
redo the cylinder walls.  Did not look much more at the short block  
for cracks there.  Threw in the towel since I just do not want to have  
the fight with SWMBA over my overly emotional attachment to Gump.   
Best to let her go I can always find another wife anyway.


Clay

On Jul 22, 2011, at 11:11 PM, Jim Cathey wrote:

some crazing on top of #1.  Crap!  That is a CRACK!  and there  
looks to be No way will I be able to swing a rebuild.


Just a piston, innit?  Got a clutch of them down in the woods...

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] GUMP is DEAD

[Jim Cathey]

some crazing on top of #1.  Crap!  That is a CRACK!  and there looks 
to be No way will I be able to swing a rebuild.


Just a piston, innit?  Got a clutch of them down in the woods...

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] On the trailer headed to the crusher in the morning

[Walt Zarnoch]

How much for the IP? M or MW?

You do know the IP is worth something, right?

Walt

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:02 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin  wrote:
> I don't know
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 22, 2011, at 7:57 PM, Rich Thomas 
>  wrote:
>
>> Where are my 126 4-wire mirrors?
>>
>> --R
>>
>> On 7/22/11 8:55 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
>>> Let me first say the cars I have been crushing are from that guys place I 
>>> had some cars parked for a while. Those who have been to okieq know what
>>> In talking about. All I had left there were the ones I had already got the 
>>> valuable parts off
>>>
>>> So today I go out and load up a rust free 116 300sd with a good engine. 
>>> Bought it with a bad tranny. Got it home to get ready to crush tomorrow. 
>>> Somebody stole the tranny out of it. Funny.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
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[MBZ] GUMP is DEAD

[redghost]

Finally got into her engine.  She had a good life.  While taking the  
head off, found that the front stanchion had cracked at the base and  
had been spewing a bit of oil around the valve springs.  Ok, minor  
setback, but Rusty would have access to fresh. Was going to have to  
trade out the wrong head bolts Tom sent anyway.  Needed hex, he sent  
star.   While it was open, should replace the chain tensioners.  Would  
have ample time to arrive while machine shop had the head.


Lift head off and move it out into daylight to see what is what.
Wipe up and look for where the gasket had gone bad.  Yep, right  
between two and three, on three.  Wear and missing a bit around the  
edge.  Just enough for gases to flow into coolant.  Damn.  But no  
damage visible, so, ok, try to get gasket off and look around  
underneath.


Wiping up the stay coolant and oil schmutz.  Looks good so far.  Minor  
rust on cylinder walls of three  and two.  Mental note for red scruffy  
pad to take care of that.  Get some light on the whole thing and start  
seeing other issues.  Cylinder walls are smooth, no cross hatch at  
all.  And WTF, there is some crazing on top of #1.  Crap!  That is a  
CRACK!  and there looks to be some stress wear on all the cylinders  
around where the pre-chamber divot is.


POOP.

No way will I be able to swing a rebuild.  SWMBA is no at all please  
that I am even tinkering with Gump.  Spent the rest of the day  
stripping out all usable parts for posting on CL.  Maybe I can recoup  
some of the cost.


Anybody need a viable head?  I have the kit from Rusty to go with it.

clay

Gump - She is green, simple and runs and runs
Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial
POS SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers





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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Tim C]

My 92 Volvo was 10% better MPG 87 vs 93, no ethanol.  Ran several tanks of
87 on a consistent commute to arrive at that conclusion.

I gather premium only benefits cars designed to use it, so I have not tried
it in the Ford.

-Tim
Now uses super unpremium aka diesel

On Jul 22, 2011 4:33 PM, "Randy Bennell"  wrote:

On 22/07/2011 2:44 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
>
>
> Regular here is 89 octane, and all the MB gassers I e...
Anyone ever actually compare regular vs premium?
I have heard people say for a long time, that some vehicles will get much
better fuel economy running premium fuel.
They claim that the increased mileage offsets the cost of higher priced
fuel.
I knew a fellow who drove a big old Caddie that swore his fuel mileage
dropped dramatically when he used regular fuel.

I have never tried to document any difference personally.
I have always run the lowest octane that seemed to behave. My old Suburban
used to ping pretty bad on regular so we ran midgrade for a long while.

I wonder if one might find that a newer MB designed to run on premium fuel
might suffer a significant drop in fuel economy if the computer adjusted
things like timing to avoid knock.

Randy



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Re: [MBZ] schwarz/rot/dummkopf

[Dan Penoff]

Todd,

A former business partner was into woodgas heavily tongue point where he 
corresponded regularly with a guy in one offend Nordic countries who is 
considered an expert on the subject.

He went so far as to design and build a woodgas system for his farm tractor 
based on WWII designs still available in out of date literature.

He was also a closet survivalist as well, and probably has enough food and guns 
in his "compound" to survive for many years

Dan

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 22, 2011, at 2:18 PM, "Smith, Todd"  wrote:

> One of the lists that I subscribe to Woodgas@Yahoogroups is full of people 
> who build and operate Woodgas gasifiers on vehicles.  You can read more at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/join  Some of the appeal is that 
> gasifiers can produce engine-grade gas from almost any type of biomass, like 
> cherry pits and walnut shells.
> 
> North Korea now as well as Germany and Australia during WWII used pyrolysis 
> gasification (Woodgas) to reduce the amount of petroleum fuel needed.  In 
> fact, gasoline was marketed by the Standard Oil Company as a way to use a 
> waste lightweight petroleum distillate that was being extracted between fuel 
> oil and kerosene in internal combustion engines.  Prior to this, the standard 
> fuel for ICE was producer gas (Woodgas)
> 
> One of the list members, Wayne Keith from Alabama has ran several pickup 
> trucks from Woodgas for years and frequently works with Auburn University 
> alternate energy program to further develop the technology.
> 
> Todd Smith
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On 
> Behalf Of Dan Penoff
> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 11:16
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] schwarz/rot/dummkopf
> 
> Speaking of wood gas generators, I was listening to a guy on NPR the other 
> day who had been in North Korea. He said that a lot of their military trucks 
> were running off wood gas generators due to the lack of gasoline and diesel.
> 
> Dan
> 
> Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this message 
> may be privileged and confidential. If this e-mail contains 
> protected health information, you are hereby notified that any 
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is 
> strictly prohibited,except as permitted by law. If you have 
> received this communication in error, please notify the sender 
> immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your 
> computer.  Thank you.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Craig]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 21:36:44 -0500 Mountain Man 
wrote:

> --R wrote:
> > My post was comprised of as many as I could think of.
> 
> Comprise has some debate on its proper use, no?

Not that I know of.


> You're use here is incorrect, no?

Actually, his use of comprise was correct. Your use of you're (a
contraction of you are, not the second person singular possesive, your),
however, was incorrect.

> The grammar patrol is out and in force in okielist tonight.

AHA!  :-)


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] schwarz/rot/dummkopf

[Smith, Todd]

One of the lists that I subscribe to Woodgas@Yahoogroups is full of people who 
build and operate Woodgas gasifiers on vehicles.  You can read more at 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/join  Some of the appeal is that 
gasifiers can produce engine-grade gas from almost any type of biomass, like 
cherry pits and walnut shells.

North Korea now as well as Germany and Australia during WWII used pyrolysis 
gasification (Woodgas) to reduce the amount of petroleum fuel needed.  In fact, 
gasoline was marketed by the Standard Oil Company as a way to use a waste 
lightweight petroleum distillate that was being extracted between fuel oil and 
kerosene in internal combustion engines.  Prior to this, the standard fuel for 
ICE was producer gas (Woodgas)

One of the list members, Wayne Keith from Alabama has ran several pickup trucks 
from Woodgas for years and frequently works with Auburn University alternate 
energy program to further develop the technology.

Todd Smith

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On 
Behalf Of Dan Penoff
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 11:16
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] schwarz/rot/dummkopf

Speaking of wood gas generators, I was listening to a guy on NPR the other day 
who had been in North Korea. He said that a lot of their military trucks were 
running off wood gas generators due to the lack of gasoline and diesel.

Dan

Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this message 
may be privileged and confidential. If this e-mail contains 
protected health information, you are hereby notified that any 
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is 
strictly prohibited,except as permitted by law. If you have 
received this communication in error, please notify the sender 
immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your 
computer.  Thank you.

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Re: [MBZ] Premium required? Depends on the idiot telling the story

[Allan Streib]

Hendrik & Fay  writes:

> OK just had a read of my recently acquired owners manual and it says
> to use minimum 95, although this may be a manual produced at a later
> date than 86, the 300TE was introduced in 89.
> This is all so confusing for my little brain.

Then you have to be sure you know what "octane" number is being
reqested.  There are two different ways to compute it, "Research" octane
number (RON) and "Method" number.  I believe Europe (and maybe most of
the world) uses RON, where as USA (and Canada?) use R+M/2 (the average
of the two numbers).  RON number will be higher than R+M/2 for the same
fuel.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] More stupid gumtree sellers?

[Hendrik & Fay]

Well I suppose I can stupidfy the list with this gem from our version of 
cranklist 
http://adelaide.gumtree.com.au/c-Cars-Vehicles-Motorbikes-Parts-cars-Mercedes-Benz-W0QQAdIdZ293160713
This joker has been trying to flog that POS for a while, you'll be happy 
to know that it is hovering for between 6K and 6.5K now, depending on 
the day, well the seller listed the 116 at 6K, got no interest and then 
re-listed it at 6.5K because it needs to go ASAP.
Oooh and you gotta love the timing chain hanging out of the M110, not a 
good look.
Perhaps I should send the seller some details in regards to car body 
removal companies.


Hendrik
who is nuts but not that much

relng...@aol.com wrote:
What??  You're going to make the list more stupid? Can it get any 
more so? Hendrik who will not be preparing the 300TE for anything..



Of course it can. Increase the posts of Craigslist ads about cars nobody 
cares about and will never buy in places no one ever visits. Absolutely 
riveting. 

And I've seen where you park your cars, down on the road under the trees 
dropping crap on them. Beyond hope.


RLE
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Re: [MBZ] Premium required? Depends on the idiot telling the story

[Peter Frederick]

The compression ratio is only part of the requirement -- the design  
of the combustion chamber, the actual mixture programmed into the  
EFI, ignition timing curve, and the spark plug placement and design  
all affect pre-ignition and detonation, which are the two causes of  
engine failure related to insufficient octane rating.


Pre-ignition is the "spark knock" you get on acceleration, made much  
worse by lean mixture and over advanced timing.  It's not spark  
related, it's the air/fuel mixture igniting from hot spots in the  
combustion chamber before it should, hence the "knock" as the flame  
front collapses and re-ignites as the compression comes up.  By  
definition, the fuel is igniting BEFORE the spark.


Detonation, on the other hand, is complete combustion of the fuel/air  
mixture, explosively, well before spark ignition.  Usually much  
quieter, you cannot hear it as a rule, since it mostly happens only  
under high load and fairly high engine speeds.  Causes severe damage  
due to the plasma generated in the spark plug and extending straight  
out.  On engine with vertical spark plugs, the plasma jet can drill  
holes in the pistons.  On an M103, the plug is angled and most of the  
damage will be done to the valves, I think, rather than the pistons.   
Still very hard on the bearings due to extreme pressure spikes just  
before TDC, and massive excess heat.


An M103 will ping on regular, and should NOT be run on the highway on  
midgrade (89 octane rated fuel) except maybe in the winter, and even  
then I'd think three times first.  You will get better milage with  
the premium if it prevents pre-ignition or detonation.


I've cured spark knock in several worm engines by using Mobil 1 oil  
and higher octane fuel.  Once you prevent the knock, all the carbon  
built up from the pre-ignition and detonation (and resultant poor  
combustion) burns off the piston crowns and the compression ratio  
drops some, pus the Mobil 1 burns cleaner and the drips all seal up,  
and occasionally the rings and lifters de-gunk and start working better.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Premium required? Depends on the idiot telling the story

[Mountain Man]

Hendrik wrote:
> It's all Rogers fault, he had me in tears about the comment that I don't
> look after my cars.

Cue RLE...
I thought he was nailing me - oh, that's right - you didn't drive that
car last year, and it was only this year that I did repair the brakes
and commented - which RLE gags when he imagines my car.  He is not
wrong.
mao

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[MBZ] Good movie, and Mercedes Pron.

[Walt Zarnoch]

The movie Unknown is pretty good.

The cars, are awesome!

Walt
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Re: [MBZ] Stupifying..

[Mountain Man]

Mike wrote:
>  Nope.  Not me.  Don't know Darrell.  I sold my only 240d to Steve MacSween
> and have sellers remorse.hahahaha

We're hitting on all 2003 cylinders tonight.
MacSween - another good old name.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Mountain Man]

--R wrote:
> My post was comprised of as many as I could think of.

Comprise has some debate on its proper use, no?
You're use here is incorrect, no?
The grammar patrol is out and in force in okielist tonight.
Old Wilton I can see as being from old school learnin', but you? - you
be a young'un - parochial school?  My kids were schooled at home and
did not move ahead until that stuff was learned correctly.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Premium required? Depends on the idiot telling the story

[Hendrik & Fay]

It's all Rogers fault, he had me in tears about the comment that I don't 
look after my cars.
However yes you may be right, which was part of the discussion about 
using higher octane fuel in the Oz spec 103, you would really need to 
raise the compression ratio in order to get any real benefit from higher 
octane fuel.
I think the 103 is 9.2:1, which is not that high, if you get closer to 
10.5:1 I would think there would be a gain in HP with higher octane.

However the cost of a higher compression ratio is prohibitive.
OK just had a read of my recently acquired owners manual and it says to 
use minimum 95, although this may be a manual produced at a later date 
than 86, the 300TE was introduced in 89.

This is all so confusing for my little brain.

Hendrik
who sometimes gets it the wrong way around, due to being downunder

Allan Streib wrote:

Hendrik & Fay  writes:

  

It is my understanding that the higher the octane rating, the quicker
the burn, so you are able to set the ignition closer to TDC (top dead
center) and get more power out of an engine, particularly if it has a
higher compression ratio.



I think it is the opposite, higher octane burns a bit slower, and is
more resistant to detonation, so you can have higher compression and
advance the spark timing to a greater degree BTDC.

Allan
  



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Re: [MBZ] Stupifying..

[Michael Canfield]

Rick,
  Nope.  Not me.  Don't know Darrell.  I sold my only 240d to Steve MacSween
and have sellers remorse.hahahaha

Mike
On Jul 22, 2011 5:44 PM, "Rick Knoble"  wrote:
>
>> From: relng...@aol.com
>
>> You showed up here just recently and have been inundating
>> the list with Craigslist stuff from all over apparently attempting to a
pal
>> to all. Gets boring after a while..
>
>  Actually Mike Canfield has been here off and on for several years. I
could be mistaken
> (and someone PLEASE correct me if I am) but Mike bought a black and white
240d
> from Darrel Sigmon several years ago and I thought we would never hear the
end of it.
>
> Again, I am old, and the memory is one of the first things to go, so if
> I am wrong please correct me.
>
> What was I saying again?
>
> Rick
>
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Re: [MBZ] Stupifying..

[Mountain Man]

Dieselhead wrote:
> Wow!  Woger claims expertise because he broke in a 240D.   Woger, what gets
> boring is your constant sniping at others on the list; constantly changing
> the subject, misspelling, and on and on.

Well, I'm glad that we are all finally catching on to the RLE schtick.
btw, the carcase is being towed away tomorrow.  $120 for that shell
seemed good dollar.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Stupifying..

[Mountain Man]

Rick wrote:
>  Actually Mike Canfield has been here off and on for several years. I could 
> be mistaken
> (and someone PLEASE correct me if I am) but Mike bought a black and white 240d
> from Darrel Sigmon several years ago and I thought we would never hear the 
> end of it.

Gene & Jude's was expecting to see you last week - we'll need to do
that again - name the day, I'll be there and I bet Deneal will also
show.  I was the oldest guy there, I'm sure.  Deneal is a couple
months younger than me.
I remember Darrel Sigmon - always an interesting guy.  Is he still around?
I wanna know more about his black & white 240D - custom paint job?
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Replacement engine cooling fan for OM606?

[Max Dillon]

I'm going to try the 3000 cst, but I think that 5000 cst may work in hot 
climates.

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Mitch Haley  wrote:

Max Dillon wrote:
> I like those prices! 

Try this search instead.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=++&FVSEARCH=Silicone+Differential+Fluid&search=Go

Anyway, those are probably list prices or close to list, and every hobby shop 
should carry Associated parts.

Anybody remember exactly what cSt the fluid is supposed to be?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Replacement engine cooling fan for OM606?

[Tim C]

Read all about it:

http://tank.windwireless.net/~jimc/SDLcool.html

Thanks to Jim for writing it up for us.  I don't say it enough but his logs
have been very helpful to me.

I'll be on the Kueny side.  Might even stop in for a sammich, my parents are
zoo members.

Best,
-Tim
Not finishing the 300D for the ninth weekend in a row

On Jul 22, 2011 7:40 PM, "Max Dillon"  wrote:

Yes, apparently dirt can prevent proper operation. I'll be checking that
tomorrow.

What part of SC? Rich and I are in Charleston.


Max
-- 
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Tim C  wrote:

Like $200+ cheap, at least for the 603.
I pulled two from the junkyar...

On Jul 22, 2011 9:31 AM, "andrew strasfogel"  wrote:

Why not buy a new one? ...
> Can you re-oil the exis...

> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/<;
http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>;

>...
For new and used parts go to www.o...
_


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Re: [MBZ] Premium required? Depends

[Allan Streib]

Hendrik & Fay  writes:

> It is my understanding that the higher the octane rating, the quicker
> the burn, so you are able to set the ignition closer to TDC (top dead
> center) and get more power out of an engine, particularly if it has a
> higher compression ratio.

I think it is the opposite, higher octane burns a bit slower, and is
more resistant to detonation, so you can have higher compression and
advance the spark timing to a greater degree BTDC.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] Premium required? Depends

[Hendrik & Fay]

To use the M103 engine as an example, over here in Ozzieland we have 
three grades of unleaded, 91, 95 and 98.
Back in 86 when the 103 was introduced into Oz we only had 91, so the 
engineers at Daimler-Benz (DB) set the 103 to run on 91 via a resistor 
(I think it's the R12).
This can be changed but not as easy as the Euro versions, which had a 
variable resistor (trim switch) under the bonnet. The instructions in 
the owners manual specified as to which setting corresponded with the 
octane rating of the fuel being put into the tank. This feature was put 
into Euro cars because of the variance of octane rating across Europe, 
you may be able to get the good stuff in the more advanced parts of 
Euroland but go to some backwater and you may well only get tarted up 
dishwater as go go juice.
DB saw no need for this switch in Oz cars because our fuel is standard 
across the nation.
There has been a fair bit of discussion on the OzBenz list in regards to 
running higher octane in the KE-jetronic cars, however no one seems to 
be able to agree as to what to do set the resistance to. However wisdom 
would dictate that if you wanna run 98 in an 103 you need to set it to 
the specs for that octane rating, ie advance the timing. Also the 
question of worth has not been answered, insofar does the extra cost of 
premium fuel get offset with better mileage? This is something of 
interest to me but hard to do as the missus drives the 103 most of the 
time and fuels it as well.
It is my understanding that the higher the octane rating, the quicker 
the burn, so you are able to set the ignition closer to TDC (top dead 
center) and get more power out of an engine, particularly if it has a 
higher compression ratio.
That's why the M110 engine in US spec is such a slug, lower compression 
and retarded ignition = lower HP.
In 92/3 when the M104 engine was introduced, we had higher grades of 
unleaded and as such DB specified at least 95. We did get a few early 
M104's with KE-jetronic injection, which I am not sure about in regards 
to fuel requirements.
From experience I can tell you that the earlier K-jetronic (designed to 
run on leaded fuel) cars need at least 95 octane to run well.
So the general rule of thumb is that any Merc other than the KE-jetronic 
versions need a higher grade of fuel.
I have cobbled together my own variable resistance switch but have not 
fitted it.


Hendrik
who runs 91 in the 103, which makes it go well enough

Allan Streib wrote:

I'm in the Marshall Booth camp.  I say use what the manufacturer says to
use.  You think you are smarter than all their engineering staff?  Fine,
do what you want in YOUR car.  But if you ask me, I say the people who
designed the car are the authorities here.

Allan
  



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[MBZ] CL find - Where's Mike Esh?

[Mitch Haley]

Anybody want a solar cooked 124.133 with a piece of rear bumper missing?
$1500 with relatively low miles.
http://lansing.craigslist.org/cto/2504714478.html

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Re: [MBZ] On the trailer headed to the crusher in the morning

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

I don't know

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 22, 2011, at 7:57 PM, Rich Thomas  
wrote:

> Where are my 126 4-wire mirrors?
> 
> --R
> 
> On 7/22/11 8:55 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
>> Let me first say the cars I have been crushing are from that guys place I 
>> had some cars parked for a while. Those who have been to okieq know what
>> In talking about. All I had left there were the ones I had already got the 
>> valuable parts off
>> 
>> So today I go out and load up a rust free 116 300sd with a good engine. 
>> Bought it with a bad tranny. Got it home to get ready to crush tomorrow. 
>> Somebody stole the tranny out of it. Funny.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
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>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Replacement engine cooling fan for OM606?

[Mitch Haley]

Max Dillon wrote:
I like those prices! 


Try this search instead.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=++&FVSEARCH=Silicone+Differential+Fluid&search=Go

Anyway, those are probably list prices or close to list, and every hobby shop 
should carry Associated parts.


Anybody remember exactly what cSt the fluid is supposed to be?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] On the trailer headed to the crusher in the morning

[Rich Thomas]

Where are my 126 4-wire mirrors?

--R

On 7/22/11 8:55 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Let me first say the cars I have been crushing are from that guys place I had 
some cars parked for a while. Those who have been to okieq know what
In talking about. All I had left there were the ones I had already got the 
valuable parts off

So today I go out and load up a rust free 116 300sd with a good engine. Bought 
it with a bad tranny. Got it home to get ready to crush tomorrow. Somebody 
stole the tranny out of it. Funny.

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Jim Cathey]

They say you have to run premium in the 420 and 560 but you can 
actually get away with regular in those cars.


We run regular in the 560 SL's, but they'll ping in high summer
when you put your foot in it.  So they tend to get premium then.

-- Jim



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[MBZ] On the trailer headed to the crusher in the morning

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Let me first say the cars I have been crushing are from that guys place I had 
some cars parked for a while. Those who have been to okieq know what
In talking about. All I had left there were the ones I had already got the 
valuable parts off

So today I go out and load up a rust free 116 300sd with a good engine. Bought 
it with a bad tranny. Got it home to get ready to crush tomorrow. Somebody 
stole the tranny out of it. Funny.

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] Replacement engine cooling fan for OM606?

[Max Dillon]

I like those prices! 

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Mitch Haley  wrote:

Max Dillon wrote:

> I will probably try that tomorrow, if I can find the oil locally. The post I 
> read said that hobby stores carry it. Toyota also sells it.

I was thinking that hobby shops sold it by the gram and priced it like Cocaine, 
but it looks like I was wrong, or things have changed in the last ten years or 
so:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=silicone+oil&search=Go

_

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Allan Streib]

Max Dillon  writes:

> I was just just thinking that Donald buys and sells cars faster than I
> repair mine

Snook is in Kansas right?  What's their limit on number of sales per
year before you have to get a dealer license?

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

I think you need a new mechanic, the 103 104 and later cars need at least 91 to 
run right. They say you have to run premium in the 420 and 560 but you can 
actually get away with regular in those cars. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 22, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Donald Snook  wrote:

> Craig wrote: "Both the E420 and E320 require premium, so that's a wash. But 
> thank you
> for thinking of it."
> 
> Not that I want to start a premium fuel thread (or maybe I do! :) ), but do 
> they really require premium?  My indy was very upset with me when I told him 
> I always put Premium in the E320.  He said the car doesn't need it. I told 
> him the owner's manual says it needs it, Mercedes says it needs it and the 
> fuel filler door says premium only.  He says that the car is equipped with a 
> knock sensor and is you use 87, the computer will compensate for the lower 
> grade and it will run just fine.  I know he is correct that the car has a 
> knock sensor and probably the computer will compensate, but is that really 
> desireable?  I mean, if it was designed to run on premium do we really want 
> to have the computer compensating and lowering performance?  Is it really 
> "designed" to run on premium? In other words, is there some detrimental 
> effect on the car running 87 all the time and having the performance 
> affected?  (by the way, I think I just used both effect and affect correctly 
> in a sentence - but not sure).
> 
> My BMW manual says that 91 should be used. But, it specifically says that the 
> computer will compensate for lower octane, but not to go below 87.
> 
> Donald H. Snook
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Re: [MBZ] Stupifying..

[Allan Streib]

Rick Knoble  writes:

> Actually Mike Canfield has been here off and on for several years. I
> could be mistaken (and someone PLEASE correct me if I am) but Mike
> bought a black and white 240d from Darrel Sigmon several years ago and
> I thought we would never hear the end of it.

Black and white?  Like an old police car?

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Rich Thomas]

My post was comprised of as many as I could think of.

--R

On 7/22/11 7:19 PM, WILTON wrote:

Wow!  Seven!  Next?   ;<)))

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Rich Thomas" 


To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos


Laying down is better than setting down and can be used to good 
affect, esp if you loose your chair when your on you're brake!


--R

On 7/22/11 5:52 PM, WILTON wrote:
'Nother ATTABOY for packing so many of 'em into one sentence.  
Anybody wanta try for five?   ;<))


Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Rich Thomas" 


To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos


Laying down is better than setting down and can be used to good 
affect, esp if you loose your chair!


--R 


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Re: [MBZ] Premium required?

[Allan Streib]

I'm in the Marshall Booth camp.  I say use what the manufacturer says to
use.  You think you are smarter than all their engineering staff?  Fine,
do what you want in YOUR car.  But if you ask me, I say the people who
designed the car are the authorities here.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] Stupifying..

[Max Dillon]

Mike, no need to explain yourself to anyone, Roger knows where the delete key 
is

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Michael Canfield  wrote:

Roger,
I was here quite some time ago, not that that matters. I have owned,
driven and personally maintained several MBZ diesels and other makes as
well. I see some ads that folks may be interested in so I pass them on.
That is how my friend got his $450 td with a stack of receipts totalling
over $6k. That is just how I am. Not trying to pal up to anyone, got
plenty of friends outside the net.

Regards, Mike
On Jul 22, 2011 5:29 PM,  wrote:
>> ...Riveting eh? And whatever could it possibly be that you could do to
>> your
>> CAR that would stupify all of us?...
>>
> Stupify to me means to bore you to immobility. Pity about your lack of a
> sense of humor.
>
> I put 120K miles on my 123 300D so am no MB newbie.. Which came after the
> 250 and the 450SE. You showed up here just recently and have been
inundating
> the list with Craigslist stuff from all over apparently attempting to a
pal
> to all. Gets boring after a while..
>
> RLE
>_

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Max Dillon]

Congrats to you Craig for snapping up Donald's car, next time he gets a Benz I 
call dibs now for first right of refusal.

I was just just thinking that Donald buys and sells cars faster than I repair 
mine, so probably about the time I get the AC fixed on my wagon (which is the 
repair after I finish installing the new head), he'll have found and purchased 
"my" next Benz. I'll have about three or four months to put aside the cash.

Max
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Re: [MBZ] schwarz/rot/dummkopf/best of show

[Hendrik & Fay]

Plenty of categories to go for 
http://www.concoursdlemons.com/participants.html

Of special note is the biggest loser category.

Hendrik
who has never been to a concourse of any sort, unless you wanna classify 
a bike show as concourse


andrew strasfogel wrote:

Maybe you want to organize (if that's the word) the 2011 Concours d'Lemons:

www.*concoursdlemons*.com
  
  



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Re: [MBZ] knock sensors and such...

[RELNGSON]

> ...Yeah, just after I hit "send" I was thinking I was wrong about that.
> I remember when it was a big deal that the first Saab Turbos could
> adjust timing on the fly to maximize boost with whatever grade of gas
> they were getting.  Didn't remember exactly when that feature was
> folded into the main evolutionary tree, so to speak, of Bosch gas
> injection systems...
> 
My '84 944, soon to have been in my care for 27 years, was Porsche's second 
year attempt with Motronic (along with BMW) which was not an unqualified 
success but being normally aspirated had no knock sensor but still had a very 
complicated ignition map. These days if you look at the compression ratios 
plus the high power outputs while still meeting emission requirements and are 
more economical to boot, it's like another world.

RLE
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Re: [MBZ] stupifying

[RELNGSON]

> Roger,
>   I was here quite some time ago, not that that matters.  I have owned,
> driven and personally maintained several MBZ diesels and other makes as
> well.  I see some ads that folks may be interested in so I pass them on.
> That is how my friend got his $450 td with a stack of receipts totalling
> over $6k.  That is just how I am.  Not trying to pal up to anyone, got
> plenty of friends outside the net.
> 
> I think I may have overdone it a bit there. Sorry. 

Sometimes I post these things just as bait for dieselkopf because he gets 
into such a lather. 

My 300D turned into an '85 190E which was one of the biggest mistakes I 
ever made. 

RLE
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Re: [MBZ] stupefying

[RELNGSON]

> ...Wow!  Woger claims expertise because he broke in a 240D.   Woger,
> what gets boring is your constant sniping at others on the list;
> constantly changing the subject, misspelling, and on and on...
> 
And yet in the first sentence of the post that you have leaped upon reads 
123 300D.

I could send along an old pair of glasses, I suppose. Can't help with the 
other problems, sadly.

In re: stupefying, corrected spelling noted.

RLE
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Re: [MBZ] Replacement engine cooling fan for OM606?

[Max Dillon]

I don't know about that, guess I'll have to let SWMBO act as my agent for that 
purchase.

Max
-- 
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Rusty Cullens  wrote:

I can actually do $115.00 if he is nice to me.


Rusty Cullens
BuyMBparts, Inc.
www.buyMBparts.biz
www.buyEUROparts.biz
www.buyASIANparts.biz
Tel/ 1-800-741-5252
Fax/ 770-454-9745
ICQ 427542441
AIM BuyMBparts

- Original Message - 
From: "Mitch Haley" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Replacement engine cooling fan for OM606?


> Tim C wrote:
>> Like $200+ cheap, at least for the 603.
> 
> I just checked Bimby, Max said 606 and I think he's got a W124.
> 1995 E300d clutches are $143.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Replacement engine cooling fan for OM606?

[Max Dillon]

Thanks for checking, may end up going that route.

Max
-- 
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Mitch Haley  wrote:

Tim C wrote:
> Like $200+ cheap, at least for the 603.

I just checked Bimby, Max said 606 and I think he's got a W124.
1995 E300d clutches are $143.

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Re: [MBZ] Replacement engine cooling fan for OM606?

[Mitch Haley]

Max Dillon wrote:


I will probably try that tomorrow, if I can find the oil locally. The post I 
read said that hobby stores carry it. Toyota also sells it.


I was thinking that hobby shops sold it by the gram and priced it like Cocaine, 
but it looks like I was wrong, or things have changed in the last ten years or so:


http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=silicone+oil&search=Go

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Re: [MBZ] Replacement engine cooling fan for OM606?

[Max Dillon]

Yes, apparently dirt can prevent proper operation. I'll be checking that 
tomorrow.

What part of SC? Rich and I are in Charleston.

Max
-- 
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Tim C  wrote:

Like $200+ cheap, at least for the 603.
I pulled two from the junkyard, $15 each with the fan. I read elsewhere
that the quick test is that it has some resistance when you turn it by hand,
so that's what I did. I am hoping that one is good but I've been too lazy
to install either, yet. :)

Jim pointed out that it also might not be locking because airflow is
blocked, which could be dirt on the fan hub or leaves between the condenser
and radiator, so check that first.

Best,
-Tim
who is visiting SC tomorrow

On Jul 22, 2011 9:31 AM, "andrew strasfogel"  wrote:

Why not buy a new one? They aren't that expensive for the older models.



On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

>
> Can you re-oil the exis...
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/<;
http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>;

>
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Re: [MBZ] Replacement engine cooling fan for OM606?

[Max Dillon]

OM606 fan clutch is less than an OM603, but I would like to try to fix it 
tomorrow rather than wait for a shipment.

Max
-- 
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andrew strasfogel  wrote:

Why not buy a new one? They aren't that expensive for the older models.


On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

>
> Can you re-oil the existing clutch?
> And do they stay re-oiled for more than a year?
>
> Mitch.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Replacement engine cooling fan for OM606?

[Max Dillon]

Yes, it is possible to do so with care, and the proper viscosity is the lighter 
silicone oil apparently. I found one fellow on the Peach forum who tried some 
7000 cst oil and out was too thick, so he removed most of that and refilled 
with 3000 cst oil, and reports good performance.

I will probably try that tomorrow, if I can find the oil locally. The post I 
read said that hobby stores carry it. Toyota also sells it.

Max
-- 
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Mitch Haley  wrote:


Can you re-oil the existing clutch?
And do they stay re-oiled for more than a year?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Stupifying..

[Dieselhead]

Wow!  Woger claims expertise because he broke in a 240D.   Woger, 
what gets boring is your constant sniping at others on the list; 
constantly changing the subject, misspelling, and on and on.




 > ...Riveting eh?  And whatever could it possibly be that you could do to

 your
 CAR that would stupify all of us?...


Stupify to me means to bore you to immobility. Pity about your lack of a
sense of humor.

I put 120K miles on my 123 300D so am no MB newbie.. Which came after the
250 and the 450SE. You showed up here just recently and have been inundating
the list with Craigslist stuff from all over apparently attempting to a pal
to all. Gets boring after a while..

RLE
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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[WILTON]

Wow!  Seven!  Next?   ;<)))

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Rich Thomas" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos


Laying down is better than setting down and can be used to good affect, 
esp if you loose your chair when your on you're brake!


--R

On 7/22/11 5:52 PM, WILTON wrote:
'Nother ATTABOY for packing so many of 'em into one sentence.  Anybody 
wanta try for five?   ;<))


Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Rich Thomas" 


To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos


Laying down is better than setting down and can be used to good 
affect, esp if you loose your chair!


--R 


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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Mitch Haley]

Walt Zarnoch wrote:

I know my friends Tiburon gets better mileage with premium. We're going to
run the numbers to see if the change in milege offsets the price point
increase, hopefully it does.


The only OBDII car I own is a GM 2.4L Twin Cam (not Ecotec).
With intake air temps over 70°, I get knock retard whenever I climb a mild (less 
than 26mpg) hill on 87 octane. Fill it with 50/50 mix of 87/93 octane, and it's 
knock free until the IAT hits about 90°F, and then timing retard is fleeting, 
instead of active all the way up the hill like it is on 87 octane. I can't 
really say how much fuel economy that translates to, I don't drive the car much, 
especially in warm weather.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Rich Thomas]

Laying down is better than setting down and can be used to good affect, 
esp if you loose your chair when your on you're brake!


--R

On 7/22/11 5:52 PM, WILTON wrote:
'Nother ATTABOY for packing so many of 'em into one sentence.  Anybody 
wanta try for five?   ;<))


Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Rich Thomas" 


To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos


Laying down is better than setting down and can be used to good 
affect, esp if you loose your chair!


--R 


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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Walt Zarnoch]

I know my friends Tiburon gets better mileage with premium. We're going to
run the numbers to see if the change in milege offsets the price point
increase, hopefully it does.

Walt
On Jul 22, 2011 4:33 PM, "Randy Bennell"  wrote:
> On 22/07/2011 2:44 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
>>
>> Regular here is 89 octane, and all the MB gassers I ever put it in are
>> just fine. Most other states have 87 as regular, and that has worked
>> just fine too. Carbureted or injected.
>>
>> Of course it does contain 10% pure corn likker, so that causes your
>> chrome plated Relly to melt down, but I find the car runs just fine
>> without it. It causes no cosmetic or operational damage when it
>> melts. Therefore it could be called a useless appendage.
>>
>> ___
> Anyone ever actually compare regular vs premium?
> I have heard people say for a long time, that some vehicles will get
> much better fuel economy running premium fuel.
> They claim that the increased mileage offsets the cost of higher priced
> fuel.
> I knew a fellow who drove a big old Caddie that swore his fuel mileage
> dropped dramatically when he used regular fuel.
>
> I have never tried to document any difference personally.
> I have always run the lowest octane that seemed to behave. My old
> Suburban used to ping pretty bad on regular so we ran midgrade for a
> long while.
>
> I wonder if one might find that a newer MB designed to run on premium
> fuel might suffer a significant drop in fuel economy if the computer
> adjusted things like timing to avoid knock.
>
> Randy
>
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Re: [MBZ] 6.9 conversion

[RELNGSON]

> Hey, that's interesting---I don't remember seeing that one.   How did
> they manage the suspension conversion?   At least on my Euro 500SEL
> with Hydramat, everything on the corners of the car is just a little
> bit different in a thousand little ways from a regular 126---no room
> needed for springs so it's  instead taken up with lots of little
> fittings and brackets to support the hydraulic lines running all over
> the place...
> 
Well, it's a 116, not a 126 but you may be right in that the suspension may 
not have been swapped. But, the owner had a big book full of progress 
photos of the conversion and he had the two cars side by side to swap the parts 
over. Maybe it will show up next month and I can refresh my memory. Anyway, 
projects like this are fun to do.

RLE
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] regular or

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 2:52 PM,   wrote:
>> ..As some people on the list have noticed (Kaleb for one), the mid-'80s
>> Mercedes engines that supposedly require premium---the M103 in the
>> 300E, for instance---run just fine on regular, so they are apparently
>> sophisticated enough to retard their timing correctly to avoid knock.
>>
> Not on that car which had a conventional ignition system. The M104 was a
> Motronic engine with knock sensors.

Yeah, just after I hit "send" I was thinking I was wrong about that.
I remember when it was a big deal that the first Saab Turbos could
adjust timing on the fly to maximize boost with whatever grade of gas
they were getting.  Didn't remember exactly when that feature was
folded into the main evolutionary tree, so to speak, of Bosch gas
injection systems.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] Stupifying..

[Mitch Haley]

Rick Knoble wrote:


 Actually Mike Canfield has been here off and on for several years. I could be 
mistaken
(and someone PLEASE correct me if I am) but Mike bought a black and white 240d
from Darrel Sigmon several years ago and I thought we would never hear the end 
of it.


The buyer's remorse guy who wanted to sell the car back to Darrell a week later, 
and then got all pissy when Darrell refused?
Wasn't Canfield. I thought it was Gabriel, but I think somebody corrected me on 
that.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[WILTON]

'Nother ATTABOY for packing so many of 'em into one sentence.  Anybody wanta 
try for five?   ;<))


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Rich Thomas" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos


Laying down is better than setting down and can be used to good affect, 
esp if you loose your chair!


--R

On 7/22/11 4:00 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

Wilton,

That's a test for the post-doc grammar nerds.
Andrew (whose skin crawls whenever a yoga teacher tells the class to "lay
down" on the mat.)
On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 2:00 PM, WILTON  wrote:


Donald, you did, indeed, use effect and affect correctly, and I commend
you. Wanta go for lie/lay or sit/set?   ;<)))

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Tim C"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos



On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Donald Snook  wrote:

Not that I want to start a premium fuel thread (or maybe I do! :) ), 
but
do they really require premium? My indy was very upset with me when I 
told
him I always put Premium in the E320. He said the car doesn't need it. 
I
told him the owner's manual says it needs it, Mercedes says it needs it 
and
the fuel filler door says premium only. He says that the car is 
equipped
with a knock sensor and is you use 87, the computer will compensate for 
the
lower grade and it will run just fine. I know he is correct that the 
car has
a knock sensor and probably the computer will compensate, but is that 
really
desireable? I mean, if it was designed to run on premium do we really 
want
to have the computer compensating and lowering performance? Is it 
really

"designed" to run on premium? In other words, is there some detrimental
effect on the car running 87 all the time and having the performance
affected? (by the way, I think I just used both effect and affect 
correctly

in a sentence - but not sure).


Not sure why he would be upset, it's your money. :)

My Volvo had a knock sensor, and it was a beater, so I ran some tests.
I found that 87 would give me about 10% lower mileage.  I didn't
notice performance degradation, even though I know that it must have
had some.

This was back when stations had a 20c delta between regular and
premium, and gas was>$2/gal, so I stayed with premium after that.  It
was also before ethanol, which would maybe add another 10% or so if
you're at one of the no-ethanol-in-premium places.

-Tim

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Re: [MBZ] regular or

[RELNGSON]

> ..As some people on the list have noticed (Kaleb for one), the mid-'80s
> Mercedes engines that supposedly require premium---the M103 in the
> 300E, for instance---run just fine on regular, so they are apparently
> sophisticated enough to retard their timing correctly to avoid knock.
> 
Not on that car which had a conventional ignition system. The M104 was a 
Motronic engine with knock sensors. And the high speed detonation which will 
hole a piston in an instant is never heard before it's over. I've seen a few 
melted early Porsche pistons which gets very expensive.

RLE

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Re: [MBZ] Stupifying..

[Michael Canfield]

Roger,
  I was here quite some time ago, not that that matters.  I have owned,
driven and personally maintained several MBZ diesels and other makes as
well.  I see some ads that folks may be interested in so I pass them on.
That is how my friend got his $450 td with a stack of receipts totalling
over $6k.  That is just how I am.  Not trying to pal up to anyone, got
plenty of friends outside the net.

Regards, Mike
On Jul 22, 2011 5:29 PM,  wrote:
>> ...Riveting eh?  And whatever could it possibly be that you could do to
>> your
>> CAR that would stupify all of us?...
>>
> Stupify to me means to bore you to immobility. Pity about your lack of a
> sense of humor.
>
> I put 120K miles on my 123 300D so am no MB newbie.. Which came after the
> 250 and the 450SE. You showed up here just recently and have been
inundating
> the list with Craigslist stuff from all over apparently attempting to a
pal
> to all. Gets boring after a while..
>
> RLE
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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[WILTON]

Yes, it makes mine crawl, too, when I too often read such in newspapers and 
hear TV "personalities" misuse them.  BTW, I think I had 'em straight long 
before post-doc - by about eighth grade.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "andrew strasfogel" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos



Wilton,

That's a test for the post-doc grammar nerds.
Andrew (whose skin crawls whenever a yoga teacher tells the class to "lay
down" on the mat.)
On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 2:00 PM, WILTON  wrote:


Donald, you did, indeed, use effect and affect correctly, and I commend
you. Wanta go for lie/lay or sit/set?   ;<)))

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Tim C" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos



On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Donald Snook  wrote:


Not that I want to start a premium fuel thread (or maybe I do! :) ), but
do they really require premium? My indy was very upset with me when I 
told

him I always put Premium in the E320. He said the car doesn't need it. I
told him the owner's manual says it needs it, Mercedes says it needs it 
and

the fuel filler door says premium only. He says that the car is equipped
with a knock sensor and is you use 87, the computer will compensate for 
the
lower grade and it will run just fine. I know he is correct that the car 
has
a knock sensor and probably the computer will compensate, but is that 
really
desireable? I mean, if it was designed to run on premium do we really 
want

to have the computer compensating and lowering performance? Is it really
"designed" to run on premium? In other words, is there some detrimental
effect on the car running 87 all the time and having the performance
affected? (by the way, I think I just used both effect and affect 
correctly

in a sentence - but not sure).



Not sure why he would be upset, it's your money. :)

My Volvo had a knock sensor, and it was a beater, so I ran some tests.
I found that 87 would give me about 10% lower mileage.  I didn't
notice performance degradation, even though I know that it must have
had some.

This was back when stations had a 20c delta between regular and
premium, and gas was >$2/gal, so I stayed with premium after that.  It
was also before ethanol, which would maybe add another 10% or so if
you're at one of the no-ethanol-in-premium places.

-Tim

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Re: [MBZ] knock sensors

[RELNGSON]

> ...He says that the car is equipped with a knock sensor and is you use 
> 87, the computer will compensate for the lower grade and it will run just 
> fine.  I know he is correct that the car has a knock sensor and probably the 
> computer will compensate, but is that really desirable?...
> 
"Compensating" means that the timing is retarded and if the car is a late 
model, the timing is dialed back on the cylinder that the detonation is 
occurring in, according to the knock sensors. This happens in an instant and 
when 
the knocking stops, normal timing will be restored.

If the engine is turbo'd, boost will also be reduced at the same time (all 
cylinders, obviously) so performance is less, on average, by using low 
octane gas and total consumption increased.

RLE
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Re: [MBZ] Stupifying..

[Rick Knoble]

> From: relng...@aol.com

> You showed up here just recently and have been inundating 
> the list with Craigslist stuff from all over apparently attempting to a pal 
> to all. Gets boring after a while..

 Actually Mike Canfield has been here off and on for several years. I could be 
mistaken
(and someone PLEASE correct me if I am) but Mike bought a black and white 240d
from Darrel Sigmon several years ago and I thought we would never hear the end 
of it.

Again, I am old, and the memory is one of the first things to go, so if 
I am wrong please correct me. 

What was I saying again?

Rick
  
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Re: [MBZ] MBCA show

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 2:36 PM,   wrote:
> And a '73
> 450 SE that had been made into a 6.9 with all the relevant parts from a
> wrecked 6.9.

Hey, that's interesting---I don't remember seeing that one.   How did
they manage the suspension conversion?   At least on my Euro 500SEL
with Hydramat, everything on the corners of the car is just a little
bit different in a thousand little ways from a regular 126---no room
needed for springs so it's  instead taken up with lots of little
fittings and brackets to support the hydraulic lines running all over
the place.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] Bio who?

[Michael Canfield]

Chances are the only thing you would hurt is the primary fuel filter would
end up clogged with crap out of the tank.  You should use heat to reduce the
viscosity of the wvo but should never heat diesel.  I am installing a 20
plate heat exchanger with a shutoff valve on the coolant side so it can be
shut off to run diesel in the winter along with an electric injector line
heater.  I feel that along with frequent oil changes and a minimum of short
trips this is all that is required to run a Mercedes Diesel successfully on
wvo in warm weather.  A 2 tank setup with a heated wvo tank and lines is
required for cold weather in order to get the car running and up to
operating temeperature before switching over to the wvo.  I just buy regular
diesel in the winter and run straight wvo all summer long.  I travel a lot
so I save thousands of dollars over buying fuel.  My 300d can be considered
free in a purely financial aspect if I factor in the fuel savings over
buying diesel.  Makes the best car in the world the cheapest to drive as
well in my eyes.

Mike
On Jul 22, 2011 5:32 PM, "andrew strasfogel"  wrote:
> Ok - next question. How many gallons of filtered WVO can I add to the10
> gallons of diesel fuel that is currently in the tank without damaging
> anything? Tank capacity is nominally 18.6 gallons.
>
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Michael Canfield wrote:
>
>> Andrew,
>> If you make longer trips a wvo conversion would be good for you as there
>> are folks advertising already filtered wvo on craigslist in the VA area
for
>> around $2 per gallon. Wvo is no good for short trips. Wvo is not
>> biodiesel
>> until it is processed.
>>
>> Mike
>> On Jul 22, 2011 4:52 PM, "andrew strasfogel" 
>> wrote:
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Re: [MBZ] MBCA show

[RELNGSON]

More from Canfield..

Can I bring my wvo burning 300d and my neighbors $450 td? Betting they 
would be the talk of the club..hahaha

Why not? Had you been around when I posted about 90 pictures from the 2009 
show, you would have seen the nice selection of cars going back beyond that 
time. The most curious car was a 240D with a home-designed turbo. And a '73 
450 SE that had been made into a 6.9 with all the relevant parts from a 
wrecked 6.9.

RLE

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Re: [MBZ] Stupifying..

[andrew strasfogel]

Stupify to me means "misspelled word"  Should be stupEfy.

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 5:29 PM,  wrote:

> > ...Riveting eh?  And whatever could it possibly be that you could do to
> > your
> > CAR that would stupify all of us?...
> >
> Stupify to me means to bore you to immobility. Pity about your lack of a
> sense of humor.
>
> I put 120K miles on my 123 300D so am no MB newbie.. Which came after the
> 250 and the 450SE. You showed up here just recently and have been
> inundating
> the list with Craigslist stuff from all over apparently attempting to a pal
> to all. Gets boring after a while..
>
> RLE
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Re: [MBZ] Bio who?

[andrew strasfogel]

Ok - next question.  How many gallons of filtered WVO can I add to the10
gallons of diesel fuel that is currently in the tank without damaging
anything?  Tank capacity is nominally 18.6 gallons.

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Michael Canfield wrote:

> Andrew,
>  If you make longer trips a wvo conversion would be good for you as there
> are folks advertising already filtered wvo on craigslist in the VA area for
> around $2 per gallon.  Wvo is no good for short trips.  Wvo is not
> biodiesel
> until it is processed.
>
> Mike
>  On Jul 22, 2011 4:52 PM, "andrew strasfogel" 
> wrote:
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Re: [MBZ] Stupifying..

[RELNGSON]

> ...Riveting eh?  And whatever could it possibly be that you could do to 
> your
> CAR that would stupify all of us?...
> 
Stupify to me means to bore you to immobility. Pity about your lack of a 
sense of humor.

I put 120K miles on my 123 300D so am no MB newbie.. Which came after the 
250 and the 450SE. You showed up here just recently and have been inundating 
the list with Craigslist stuff from all over apparently attempting to a pal 
to all. Gets boring after a while..

RLE
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Re: [MBZ] Bio who?

[Michael Canfield]

Andrew,
  If you make longer trips a wvo conversion would be good for you as there
are folks advertising already filtered wvo on craigslist in the VA area for
around $2 per gallon.  Wvo is no good for short trips.  Wvo is not biodiesel
until it is processed.

Mike
On Jul 22, 2011 4:52 PM, "andrew strasfogel"  wrote:
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Re: [MBZ] Bio who?

[Randy Bennell]

That is where the flavour comes from..

Randy

On 22/07/2011 3:45 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

To be honest, I doubt anyone would notice!

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:


On 22/07/2011 2:57 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:


My "final answer" on the home biodiesel refining debacle is that all the
used cooking oil should be collected and centrally processed in a
commercial, scaled up refinery for use by WMATA in public transit buses.
End of story.



But, don't you suspect that what really happens, is that they strain it a
bit and send it back to McD's for another round of fry making!

Randy





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Re: [MBZ] Bio who?

[Mitch Haley]

andrew strasfogel wrote:

Now I am really confused.

Can you purchase a pump product labeled "B20" that is pre-blended to
containing 20 percent (of what - refined biodiesel OR strained WVO OR pure
vegetable oil??) or does one add 2 gallons of cooking oil to the tank along
with 8 gallons of regular diesel to achieve "B20".  IMO, from what I have
read, commercially refined pure biodiesel should be OK to burn in a Mercedes
or any diesel engine without having to be blended 20/80 with diesel fuel.

WTF.


I could in 2002, when I bought my 300SD. A station 9 miles away had a B20 (20% 
refined biodiesel from soy, 80% #2). They were willing to sell me B100 for a 
higher price, but they didn't have a retail pump set up for it. That station 
closed a few years ago.


Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] Replacement engine cooling fan for OM606?

[Craig]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 12:06:02 -0400 "Allan Streib" 
wrote:

> I've always heard that you need to keep these fans upright, do not lay
> them down flat on their face or the oil will flow to where it shouldn't
> be and the clutch won't work properly.  I'm not sure I believe that, but
> definitely remember reading that on this list or its predecessor.

When they are shipped they have a seal on a vent port so they can be in
any position. When the seal is removed for installation, they must be in
a vertical position, else they will leak.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Bio who?

[andrew strasfogel]

Now I am really confused.

Can you purchase a pump product labeled "B20" that is pre-blended to
containing 20 percent (of what - refined biodiesel OR strained WVO OR pure
vegetable oil??) or does one add 2 gallons of cooking oil to the tank along
with 8 gallons of regular diesel to achieve "B20".  IMO, from what I have
read, commercially refined pure biodiesel should be OK to burn in a Mercedes
or any diesel engine without having to be blended 20/80 with diesel fuel.

WTF.

Andrew (who longs for the day when his 300TD exhaust smells of freedom fries
but not urea)

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

> andrew strasfogel wrote:
>
>> My "final answer" on the home biodiesel refining debacle is that all the
>> used cooking oil should be collected and centrally processed in a
>> commercial, scaled up refinery for use by WMATA in public transit buses.
>> End of story.
>>
>
> A nearby (well, 40 miles north of here) school district started running B20
> when bio-D was the latest fad.
>
> http://domesticfuel.com/2009/**10/26/michigan-school-bus-**
> hits-milestone-with-biodiesel/
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Bio who?

[andrew strasfogel]

To be honest, I doubt anyone would notice!

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:

> On 22/07/2011 2:57 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
>
>> My "final answer" on the home biodiesel refining debacle is that all the
>> used cooking oil should be collected and centrally processed in a
>> commercial, scaled up refinery for use by WMATA in public transit buses.
>> End of story.
>>
>>
>
> But, don't you suspect that what really happens, is that they strain it a
> bit and send it back to McD's for another round of fry making!
>
> Randy
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Bio who?

[Randy Bennell]

On 22/07/2011 2:57 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

My "final answer" on the home biodiesel refining debacle is that all the
used cooking oil should be collected and centrally processed in a
commercial, scaled up refinery for use by WMATA in public transit buses.
End of story.




But, don't you suspect that what really happens, is that they strain it 
a bit and send it back to McD's for another round of fry making!


Randy

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Randy Bennell]

On 22/07/2011 2:44 PM, Dieselhead wrote:


Regular here is 89 octane, and all the MB gassers I ever put it in are 
just fine.  Most other states have 87 as regular, and that has worked 
just fine too.  Carbureted or injected.


Of course it does contain 10% pure corn likker, so that causes your 
chrome plated Relly to melt down, but I find the car runs just fine 
without it.  It causes no cosmetic or operational damage when it 
melts.  Therefore it could be called a useless appendage.


___

Anyone ever actually compare regular vs premium?
I have heard people say for a long time, that some vehicles will get 
much better fuel economy running premium fuel.
They claim that the increased mileage offsets the cost of higher priced 
fuel.
I knew a fellow who drove a big old Caddie that swore his fuel mileage 
dropped dramatically when he used regular fuel.


I have never tried to document any difference personally.
I have always run the lowest octane that seemed to behave. My old 
Suburban used to ping pretty bad on regular so we ran midgrade for a 
long while.


I wonder if one might find that a newer MB designed to run on premium 
fuel might suffer a significant drop in fuel economy if the computer 
adjusted things like timing to avoid knock.


Randy

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Rich Thomas]

Laying down is better than setting down and can be used to good affect, 
esp if you loose your chair!


--R

On 7/22/11 4:00 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

Wilton,

That's a test for the post-doc grammar nerds.
Andrew (whose skin crawls whenever a yoga teacher tells the class to "lay
down" on the mat.)
On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 2:00 PM, WILTON  wrote:


Donald, you did, indeed, use effect and affect correctly, and I commend
you. Wanta go for lie/lay or sit/set?   ;<)))

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Tim C"
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos



On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Donald Snook  wrote:


Not that I want to start a premium fuel thread (or maybe I do! :) ), but
do they really require premium? My indy was very upset with me when I told
him I always put Premium in the E320. He said the car doesn't need it. I
told him the owner's manual says it needs it, Mercedes says it needs it and
the fuel filler door says premium only. He says that the car is equipped
with a knock sensor and is you use 87, the computer will compensate for the
lower grade and it will run just fine. I know he is correct that the car has
a knock sensor and probably the computer will compensate, but is that really
desireable? I mean, if it was designed to run on premium do we really want
to have the computer compensating and lowering performance? Is it really
"designed" to run on premium? In other words, is there some detrimental
effect on the car running 87 all the time and having the performance
affected? (by the way, I think I just used both effect and affect correctly
in a sentence - but not sure).


Not sure why he would be upset, it's your money. :)

My Volvo had a knock sensor, and it was a beater, so I ran some tests.
I found that 87 would give me about 10% lower mileage.  I didn't
notice performance degradation, even though I know that it must have
had some.

This was back when stations had a 20c delta between regular and
premium, and gas was>$2/gal, so I stayed with premium after that.  It
was also before ethanol, which would maybe add another 10% or so if
you're at one of the no-ethanol-in-premium places.

-Tim

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Re: [MBZ] Bio who?

[Mitch Haley]

andrew strasfogel wrote:

My "final answer" on the home biodiesel refining debacle is that all the
used cooking oil should be collected and centrally processed in a
commercial, scaled up refinery for use by WMATA in public transit buses.
End of story.


A nearby (well, 40 miles north of here) school district started running B20 when 
bio-D was the latest fad.


http://domesticfuel.com/2009/10/26/michigan-school-bus-hits-milestone-with-biodiesel/

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Re: [MBZ] Bio who?

[Mitch Haley]

Rich Thomas wrote:
Andrew was up there getting his feedstocks for his incipient biofuel 
business in DC?


A coupla goobers got caught yesterday somewhere around here leaving the 
scene of a smoking building, one of the goobers had half his hand 
missing and 3rd degree burns on it.  Can you say, "Live wires, Darwin?"  
Go ahead, I know you can...  Caught red-handed I guess!


I know it's off topic, but I can't help myself.
In some countries they cut off the hands of thieves.
In the USA, the thieves save us the trouble.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[andrew strasfogel]

Wilton,

That's a test for the post-doc grammar nerds.
Andrew (whose skin crawls whenever a yoga teacher tells the class to "lay
down" on the mat.)
On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 2:00 PM, WILTON  wrote:

> Donald, you did, indeed, use effect and affect correctly, and I commend
> you. Wanta go for lie/lay or sit/set?   ;<)))
>
> Wilton
>
> - Original Message - From: "Tim C" 
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 1:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Donald Snook  wrote:
>
>> Not that I want to start a premium fuel thread (or maybe I do! :) ), but
>> do they really require premium? My indy was very upset with me when I told
>> him I always put Premium in the E320. He said the car doesn't need it. I
>> told him the owner's manual says it needs it, Mercedes says it needs it and
>> the fuel filler door says premium only. He says that the car is equipped
>> with a knock sensor and is you use 87, the computer will compensate for the
>> lower grade and it will run just fine. I know he is correct that the car has
>> a knock sensor and probably the computer will compensate, but is that really
>> desireable? I mean, if it was designed to run on premium do we really want
>> to have the computer compensating and lowering performance? Is it really
>> "designed" to run on premium? In other words, is there some detrimental
>> effect on the car running 87 all the time and having the performance
>> affected? (by the way, I think I just used both effect and affect correctly
>> in a sentence - but not sure).
>>
>
> Not sure why he would be upset, it's your money. :)
>
> My Volvo had a knock sensor, and it was a beater, so I ran some tests.
> I found that 87 would give me about 10% lower mileage.  I didn't
> notice performance degradation, even though I know that it must have
> had some.
>
> This was back when stations had a 20c delta between regular and
> premium, and gas was >$2/gal, so I stayed with premium after that.  It
> was also before ethanol, which would maybe add another 10% or so if
> you're at one of the no-ethanol-in-premium places.
>
> -Tim
>
> __**_
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> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
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> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Bio who?

[andrew strasfogel]

My "final answer" on the home biodiesel refining debacle is that all the
used cooking oil should be collected and centrally processed in a
commercial, scaled up refinery for use by WMATA in public transit buses.
End of story.

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:

> Andrew was up there getting his feedstocks for his incipient biofuel
> business in DC?
>
> A coupla goobers got caught yesterday somewhere around here leaving the
> scene of a smoking building, one of the goobers had half his hand missing
> and 3rd degree burns on it.  Can you say, "Live wires, Darwin?"  Go ahead, I
> know you can...  Caught red-handed I guess!
>
> --R
>
>
> On 7/22/11 12:09 PM, Allan Streib wrote:
>
>> Wire thief was recently electrocuted here when he tried to steal wire
>> from a live electrical substation.  Some discussion of Darwin's
>> theories ensued.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:45 -0400, "Mitch Haley"  wrote:
>>
>>> I can remember reading about oil-jackings about 8-10 years ago, but
>>> not recently. The serial thefts you'd read about involved somebody
>>> going around with a truck, breaking locks on the tanks, and pumping
>>> them out. I always figured they were wholesaling it, like when thieves
>>> steal aluminum guardrails or copper wiring and pipe.
>>>
>>> Mitch.
>>>
>>> Fred Moir wrote:
>>>
 Desperate time call for desperate measures?

 http://www.thebostonchannel.**com/news/28631889/detail.html

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>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Dieselhead]

Regular here is 89 octane, and all the MB gassers I ever put it in 
are just fine.  Most other states have 87 as regular, and that has 
worked just fine too.  Carbureted or injected.


Of course it does contain 10% pure corn likker, so that causes your 
chrome plated Relly to melt down, but I find the car runs just fine 
without it.  It causes no cosmetic or operational damage when it 
melts.  Therefore it could be called a useless appendage.


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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[WILTON]

Yeah, that's another one.  ;<))

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Rich Thomas" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos



He is at a loose for words.

--R

On 7/22/11 2:00 PM, WILTON wrote:
Donald, you did, indeed, use effect and affect correctly, and I 
commend you. Wanta go for lie/lay or sit/set?   ;<)))


Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Tim C" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos


On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Donald Snook  wrote:
Not that I want to start a premium fuel thread (or maybe I do! :) ), 
but do they really require premium? My indy was very upset with me 
when I told him I always put Premium in the E320. He said the car 
doesn't need it. I told him the owner's manual says it needs it, 
Mercedes says it needs it and the fuel filler door says premium only. 
He says that the car is equipped with a knock sensor and is you use 
87, the computer will compensate for the lower grade and it will run 
just fine. I know he is correct that the car has a knock sensor and 
probably the computer will compensate, but is that really desireable? 
I mean, if it was designed to run on premium do we really want to 
have the computer compensating and lowering performance? Is it really 
"designed" to run on premium? In other words, is there some 
detrimental effect on the car running 87 all the time and having the 
performance affected? (by the way, I think I just used both effect 
and affect correctly in a sentence - but not sure).


Not sure why he would be upset, it's your money. :)

My Volvo had a knock sensor, and it was a beater, so I ran some tests.
I found that 87 would give me about 10% lower mileage.  I didn't
notice performance degradation, even though I know that it must have
had some.

This was back when stations had a 20c delta between regular and
premium, and gas was >$2/gal, so I stayed with premium after that.  It
was also before ethanol, which would maybe add another 10% or so if
you're at one of the no-ethanol-in-premium places.

-Tim

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Rich Thomas]

He is at a loose for words.

--R

On 7/22/11 2:00 PM, WILTON wrote:
Donald, you did, indeed, use effect and affect correctly, and I 
commend you. Wanta go for lie/lay or sit/set?   ;<)))


Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Tim C" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos


On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Donald Snook  wrote:
Not that I want to start a premium fuel thread (or maybe I do! :) ), 
but do they really require premium? My indy was very upset with me 
when I told him I always put Premium in the E320. He said the car 
doesn't need it. I told him the owner's manual says it needs it, 
Mercedes says it needs it and the fuel filler door says premium only. 
He says that the car is equipped with a knock sensor and is you use 
87, the computer will compensate for the lower grade and it will run 
just fine. I know he is correct that the car has a knock sensor and 
probably the computer will compensate, but is that really desireable? 
I mean, if it was designed to run on premium do we really want to 
have the computer compensating and lowering performance? Is it really 
"designed" to run on premium? In other words, is there some 
detrimental effect on the car running 87 all the time and having the 
performance affected? (by the way, I think I just used both effect 
and affect correctly in a sentence - but not sure).


Not sure why he would be upset, it's your money. :)

My Volvo had a knock sensor, and it was a beater, so I ran some tests.
I found that 87 would give me about 10% lower mileage.  I didn't
notice performance degradation, even though I know that it must have
had some.

This was back when stations had a 20c delta between regular and
premium, and gas was >$2/gal, so I stayed with premium after that.  It
was also before ethanol, which would maybe add another 10% or so if
you're at one of the no-ethanol-in-premium places.

-Tim

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Re: [MBZ] Bio who?

[Rich Thomas]

Andrew was up there getting his feedstocks for his incipient biofuel 
business in DC?


A coupla goobers got caught yesterday somewhere around here leaving the 
scene of a smoking building, one of the goobers had half his hand 
missing and 3rd degree burns on it.  Can you say, "Live wires, Darwin?"  
Go ahead, I know you can...  Caught red-handed I guess!


--R

On 7/22/11 12:09 PM, Allan Streib wrote:

Wire thief was recently electrocuted here when he tried to steal wire
from a live electrical substation.  Some discussion of Darwin's
theories ensued.


On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:45 -0400, "Mitch Haley"  wrote:

I can remember reading about oil-jackings about 8-10 years ago, but
not recently. The serial thefts you'd read about involved somebody
going around with a truck, breaking locks on the tanks, and pumping
them out. I always figured they were wholesaling it, like when thieves
steal aluminum guardrails or copper wiring and pipe.

Mitch.

Fred Moir wrote:

Desperate time call for desperate measures?

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/28631889/detail.html


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Re: [MBZ] schwarz/rot/dummkopf

[Rich Thomas]

Those wacky NORKs, i guess only the Dear Leader and the Near Leader get 
to use gasoline for their Benzes (or Zils?).


--R

On 7/22/11 11:16 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:

Speaking of wood gas generators, I was listening to a guy on NPR the other day 
who had been in North Korea. He said that a lot of their military trucks were 
running off wood gas generators due to the lack of gasoline and diesel.

Dan



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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Mitch Haley]

Donald Snook wrote:


My BMW manual says that 91 should be used. But, it specifically says that the 
computer will compensate for lower octane, but not to go below 87.



Is that Research Octane Number, Motor Octane Number, or US pump octane number 
(R+N)/2?




Mitch Haley wrote:
> In my neck of the woods it's 3.529 vs 3.729.
> It's just always been 10 cents per grade in recent years.

I quoted the difference between 87 and 93, not 87 and 91. My midgrade choice is 
89.

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[WILTON]

Donald, you did, indeed, use effect and affect correctly, and I commend you. 
Wanta go for lie/lay or sit/set?   ;<)))


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Tim C" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos


On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Donald Snook  wrote:
Not that I want to start a premium fuel thread (or maybe I do! :) ), but 
do they really require premium? My indy was very upset with me when I told 
him I always put Premium in the E320. He said the car doesn't need it. I 
told him the owner's manual says it needs it, Mercedes says it needs it 
and the fuel filler door says premium only. He says that the car is 
equipped with a knock sensor and is you use 87, the computer will 
compensate for the lower grade and it will run just fine. I know he is 
correct that the car has a knock sensor and probably the computer will 
compensate, but is that really desireable? I mean, if it was designed to 
run on premium do we really want to have the computer compensating and 
lowering performance? Is it really "designed" to run on premium? In other 
words, is there some detrimental effect on the car running 87 all the time 
and having the performance affected? (by the way, I think I just used both 
effect and affect correctly in a sentence - but not sure).


Not sure why he would be upset, it's your money. :)

My Volvo had a knock sensor, and it was a beater, so I ran some tests.
I found that 87 would give me about 10% lower mileage.  I didn't
notice performance degradation, even though I know that it must have
had some.

This was back when stations had a 20c delta between regular and
premium, and gas was >$2/gal, so I stayed with premium after that.  It
was also before ethanol, which would maybe add another 10% or so if
you're at one of the no-ethanol-in-premium places.

-Tim

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Tim C]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Donald Snook  wrote:
> Not that I want to start a premium fuel thread (or maybe I do! :) ), but do 
> they really require premium?  My indy was very upset with me when I told him 
> I always put Premium in the E320.  He said the car doesn't need it. I told 
> him the owner's manual says it needs it, Mercedes says it needs it and the 
> fuel filler door says premium only.  He says that the car is equipped with a 
> knock sensor and is you use 87, the computer will compensate for the lower 
> grade and it will run just fine.  I know he is correct that the car has a 
> knock sensor and probably the computer will compensate, but is that really 
> desireable?  I mean, if it was designed to run on premium do we really want 
> to have the computer compensating and lowering performance?  Is it really 
> "designed" to run on premium? In other words, is there some detrimental 
> effect on the car running 87 all the time and having the performance 
> affected?  (by the way, I think I just used both effect and affect correctly 
> in a sentence - but not sure).

Not sure why he would be upset, it's your money. :)

My Volvo had a knock sensor, and it was a beater, so I ran some tests.
 I found that 87 would give me about 10% lower mileage.  I didn't
notice performance degradation, even though I know that it must have
had some.

This was back when stations had a 20c delta between regular and
premium, and gas was >$2/gal, so I stayed with premium after that.  It
was also before ethanol, which would maybe add another 10% or so if
you're at one of the no-ethanol-in-premium places.

-Tim

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Mitch Haley]

OK Don wrote:

Isn't the orice differential between 87 and 91 about 10-13% now? Is that
worth fussing about? You can make that much difference in driving style.


In my neck of the woods it's 3.529 vs 3.729.
It's just always been 10 cents per grade in recent years.
At 1.50 vs 1.70, 87 looks good.
At 4.00 v 4.20, 93 looks a lot better.

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Russ Williams]

Hi Donald,

I would use Premium fuel only and Mid Grade in a pinch.
Sure the computer will compensate for the lower octane but fuel mileage 
and performance WILL suffer.

If you want to ask an expert  go here:
http://www.agcoauto.com/content/submit-question
Ask Louis the question he will give you the correct skinny on it.
Or you can call him tomorrow @ 225-499-9526 between 10 and 11 AM CDT
www.wjbo.com on the net to hear his radio show.
I've known Louis for 20+ years and believe me he knows his stuff.
But he doesn't work on Merc's or Bimmers he sends them to my Indie.

Russ W.
84 300D
83 240D x2

On 7/22/2011 11:38 AM, Donald Snook wrote:

Craig wrote: "Both the E420 and E320 require premium, so that's a wash. But 
thank you
for thinking of it."

Not that I want to start a premium fuel thread (or maybe I do! :) ), but do they really 
require premium?  My indy was very upset with me when I told him I always put Premium in 
the E320.  He said the car doesn't need it. I told him the owner's manual says it needs 
it, Mercedes says it needs it and the fuel filler door says premium only.  He says that 
the car is equipped with a knock sensor and is you use 87, the computer will compensate 
for the lower grade and it will run just fine.  I know he is correct that the car has a 
knock sensor and probably the computer will compensate, but is that really desireable?  I 
mean, if it was designed to run on premium do we really want to have the computer 
compensating and lowering performance?  Is it really "designed" to run on 
premium? In other words, is there some detrimental effect on the car running 87 all the 
time and having the performance affected?  (by the way, I think I just used both effect 
and affect correctly in a sentence - b!
  ut not sure).

My BMW manual says that 91 should be used. But, it specifically says that the 
computer will compensate for lower octane, but not to go below 87.

Donald H. Snook



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[MBZ] Premium required? [was: Snookmobile moves to Los Alamos]

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Donald Snook  wrote:
>  the car has a knock sensor and probably the computer will compensate,
> but is that really desireable?  I mean, if it was designed to run on premium
> do we really want to have the computer compensating and lowering
> performance?  Is it really "designed" to run on premium? In other words,
>  is there some detrimental effect on the car running 87 all the time and
> having the performance affected?  (by the way, I think I just used both effect
> and affect correctly in a sentence - but not sure).

This is an interesting topic and I think the answer to all the
questions above unfortunately is "it depends."  (Except for the part
about "effect" and "affect"---Snook Esq. did indeed effect the correct
use of both.)

Whenever gas prices go up and the usual crop of stories about "here's
how to save money on gas" pop up online and in the newspaper, one of
the recommendations given is always "No car really requires
high-octane gas; just put regular in and the computer will compensate;
the engine will put out less power but you won't notice."  This has
always been Consumer Reports' position as well---they have gone as far
to suggest that any manufacturer that says their car requires premium
is pulling a scam.

As some people on the list have noticed (Kaleb for one), the mid-'80s
Mercedes engines that supposedly require premium---the M103 in the
300E, for instance---run just fine on regular, so they are apparently
sophisticated enough to retard their timing correctly to avoid knock.

On the flipside there are modern engines for which anecdotal evidence
suggests that buying lower-octane gas is being penny-wise and
pound-foolish.  One of our family cars is an '02 Camry with the
24-valve high-compression V-6 used in a lot of Toyotas and Lexuses in
the '00s (as well as the Lotus Elise!).   Toyota says to use 89 octane
minimum, which around here is midgrade.  Right now regular is about
$3.80 a gallon, midgrade is about $4.00; so that's a price difference
of a little bit more than 5%.  The car does run fine on regular.
However, on midgrade, it consistently gets 10% better MPG (about 26
mpg highway vs about 23), more than making up for the price
difference.

I think the "just put regular in, you won't notice the difference"
line of thinking is wrongheaded for a couple of reasons---first, you
might well notice a difference for the worse if you worked out cost
per mile, as in the case of the Camry I just gave; and second, if
you're looking to save money and accept decreased performance, why did
you buy a high-performance car to begin with?  I'm reminded of the
people who buy a Mercedes wagon, but then complain about the cost to
fix the rear SLS and want to replace it with conventional springs and
shocks.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[OK Don]

Isn't the orice differential between 87 and 91 about 10-13% now? Is that
worth fussing about? You can make that much difference in driving style.
I pump 91 into the ML and don't think twice about it. Tha havning been said,
I'm monitoring fuel mileage using ethonol contamenated fuel and clean fuel -
seems to be about a 7% increase for pure gas, but I only have two tanks of
each on record so far - too small a sample to draw a conclusion from yet.
On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Donald Snook  wrote:

> Craig wrote: "Both the E420 and E320 require premium, so that's a wash. But
> thank you
> for thinking of it."
>
> Not that I want to start a premium fuel thread (or maybe I do! :) ), but do
> they really require premium?  My indy was very upset with me when I told him
> I always put Premium in the E320.  He said the car doesn't need it. I told
> him the owner's manual says it needs it, Mercedes says it needs it and the
> fuel filler door says premium only.  He says that the car is equipped with a
> knock sensor and is you use 87, the computer will compensate for the lower
> grade and it will run just fine.  I know he is correct that the car has a
> knock sensor and probably the computer will compensate, but is that really
> desireable?  I mean, if it was designed to run on premium do we really want
> to have the computer compensating and lowering performance?  Is it really
> "designed" to run on premium? In other words, is there some detrimental
> effect on the car running 87 all the time and having the performance
> affected?  (by the way, I think I just used both effect and affect correctly
> in a sentence - but not sure).
>
> My BMW manual says that 91 should be used. But, it specifically says that
> the computer will compensate for lower octane, but not to go below 87.
>
> Donald H. Snook



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Donald Snook]

Craig wrote: "Both the E420 and E320 require premium, so that's a wash. But 
thank you
for thinking of it."

Not that I want to start a premium fuel thread (or maybe I do! :) ), but do 
they really require premium?  My indy was very upset with me when I told him I 
always put Premium in the E320.  He said the car doesn't need it. I told him 
the owner's manual says it needs it, Mercedes says it needs it and the fuel 
filler door says premium only.  He says that the car is equipped with a knock 
sensor and is you use 87, the computer will compensate for the lower grade and 
it will run just fine.  I know he is correct that the car has a knock sensor 
and probably the computer will compensate, but is that really desireable?  I 
mean, if it was designed to run on premium do we really want to have the 
computer compensating and lowering performance?  Is it really "designed" to run 
on premium? In other words, is there some detrimental effect on the car running 
87 all the time and having the performance affected?  (by the way, I think I 
just used both effect and affect correctly in a sentence - but not sure).

My BMW manual says that 91 should be used. But, it specifically says that the 
computer will compensate for lower octane, but not to go below 87.

Donald H. Snook
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[MBZ] Okie Acres -- Everything must go?

[Donald Snook]

Kaleb,

I sent an email to you directly, but didn't get a response.  What cars are you 
wanting to get rid of?  My indy has interest in some of them and may be able to 
bring a transporter down there to haul off 2-3 of them.  Are any of them in 
running condition?  If not, what condition are they in?  Are they all parts 
cars?

Donald H. Snook
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Re: [MBZ] Bio who?

[Allan Streib]

Wire thief was recently electrocuted here when he tried to steal wire
from a live electrical substation.  Some discussion of Darwin's
theories ensued.


On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:45 -0400, "Mitch Haley"  wrote:
> I can remember reading about oil-jackings about 8-10 years ago, but
> not recently. The serial thefts you'd read about involved somebody
> going around with a truck, breaking locks on the tanks, and pumping
> them out. I always figured they were wholesaling it, like when thieves
> steal aluminum guardrails or copper wiring and pipe.
>
> Mitch.
>
> Fred Moir wrote:
> > Desperate time call for desperate measures?
> >
> > http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/28631889/detail.html
> >
>

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Re: [MBZ] Replacement engine cooling fan for OM606?

[Allan Streib]

I've always heard that you need to keep these fans upright, do not lay
them down flat on their face or the oil will flow to where it shouldn't
be and the clutch won't work properly.  I'm not sure I believe that, but
definitely remember reading that on this list or its predecessor.

Allan


On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 10:50 -0400, "Tim C"  wrote:
> Like $200+ cheap, at least for the 603. I pulled two from the
> junkyard, $15 each with the fan.  I read elsewhere that the quick test
> is that it has some resistance when you turn it by hand, so that's
> what I did.  I am hoping that one is good but I've been too lazy to
> install either, yet. :)
>
> Jim pointed out that it also might not be locking because airflow is
> blocked, which could be dirt on the fan hub or leaves between the
> condenser and radiator, so check that first.
>
> Best, -Tim who is visiting SC tomorrow

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Re: [MBZ] The ex-SnookMobile is now in Los Alamos

[Allan Streib]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 09:30 -0400, "andrew strasfogel"  
wrote:

> Does the 420 require premium fuel?  How about the 560?  To me, that would be
> a major consideration in deciding whether to own one.

As far as I know, all Mercedes gassers do, or at least would benefit from it.

The older carbureted engines and early fuel injection would definitely need it 
I'd think, as their timing is set assuming premium gas.

The computer controlled engines can probably compensate but would do better on 
the good stuff.

Allan

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