Re: [MBZ] 500SEL, green, velour, doesn't run...

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Right behind you, Jaime.  And it’s green velour!!!

Dan


> On Feb 28, 2016, at 12:10 PM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'd buy this in a a second.
> 
> On Sunday, February 28, 2016, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> http://annarbor.craigslist.org/cto/5457959480.html
>> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL, green, velour, doesn't run...

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

No, have you?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 28, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sounds more like it fires than it starts. 
> Could be something in the ignition, like a ballast resistor that's bypassed by
> the start circuit, but it's probably a bad fuel distributor or similar. Have 
> you
> priced a 8 cylinder K-Jetronic fuel distributor lately?
> 
> Mitch.
> 
>> On February 28, 2016 at 12:22 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> It has ignition, or it would not start at all.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL, green, velour, doesn't run...

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I would not have a problem paying 1-1.2k

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 28, 2016, at 11:38 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was thinking ballast resistor also, but could be fuel. It would have to
> be pretty clogged up to not run at all.  But I don't think its anything too
> serious honestly.
> 
> The car looks pretty nice, but not perfect.  But going on the pictures, I
> don't have any trouble paying $1500 for it.  But I see the value in this as
> a collector car, not as a "get it fixed and cheap as possible and drive it
> into the ground" car as some of you might.
> 
> Jaime
> 
> 
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Sounds more like it fires than it starts.
>> Could be something in the ignition, like a ballast resistor that's
>> bypassed by
>> the start circuit, but it's probably a bad fuel distributor or similar.
>> Have you
>> priced a 8 cylinder K-Jetronic fuel distributor lately?
>> 
>> Mitch.
>> 
>>> On February 28, 2016 at 12:22 PM G Mann via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It has ignition, or it would not start at all.
>> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL, green, velour, doesn't run...

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

$450 from the Delorian guy... I've used a few of his with good results.

http://www.specialtauto.com/mercedes-parts/index.html

Jaime


On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Sounds more like it fires than it starts.
> Could be something in the ignition, like a ballast resistor that's
> bypassed by
> the start circuit, but it's probably a bad fuel distributor or similar.
> Have you
> priced a 8 cylinder K-Jetronic fuel distributor lately?
>
> Mitch.
>
> > On February 28, 2016 at 12:22 PM G Mann via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > It has ignition, or it would not start at all.
>
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>


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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL, green, velour, doesn't run...

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

I was thinking ballast resistor also, but could be fuel. It would have to
be pretty clogged up to not run at all.  But I don't think its anything too
serious honestly.

The car looks pretty nice, but not perfect.  But going on the pictures, I
don't have any trouble paying $1500 for it.  But I see the value in this as
a collector car, not as a "get it fixed and cheap as possible and drive it
into the ground" car as some of you might.

Jaime


On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Sounds more like it fires than it starts.
> Could be something in the ignition, like a ballast resistor that's
> bypassed by
> the start circuit, but it's probably a bad fuel distributor or similar.
> Have you
> priced a 8 cylinder K-Jetronic fuel distributor lately?
>
> Mitch.
>
> > On February 28, 2016 at 12:22 PM G Mann via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > It has ignition, or it would not start at all.
>
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>


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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL, green, velour, doesn't run...

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Sounds more like it fires than it starts. 
Could be something in the ignition, like a ballast resistor that's bypassed by
the start circuit, but it's probably a bad fuel distributor or similar. Have you
priced a 8 cylinder K-Jetronic fuel distributor lately?

Mitch.

> On February 28, 2016 at 12:22 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> 
> It has ignition, or it would not start at all.

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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL, green, velour, doesn't run...

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

Yeah that's what I was thinking too.  Clogged filters, bad gas, pinched 
lines, pump, clogged injections stuff, something like that.


--R

On 2/28/16 12:22 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

It starts, but refuses to keep running I would strongly suspect fuel
delivery.

Small supply of gas in a squirt bottle, prime the intake with a couple
squirts of gas.. have assistant crank engine to start... squirt fuel into
intake [fire bottle standing by always] . if engine continues to run
with "aux fuel supply" then find source of failure in fuel system.

It has ignition, or it would not start at all.

This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast.
www.avast.com

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


What do you think it needs done to get it running?  Looks like he has
thrown some parts at it without success so far.

--R

On 2/28/16 12:10 PM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes wrote:


I'd buy this in a a second.

On Sunday, February 28, 2016, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

http://annarbor.craigslist.org/cto/5457959480.html

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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL, green, velour, doesn't run...

[G Mann via Mercedes]

It starts, but refuses to keep running I would strongly suspect fuel
delivery.

Small supply of gas in a squirt bottle, prime the intake with a couple
squirts of gas.. have assistant crank engine to start... squirt fuel into
intake [fire bottle standing by always] . if engine continues to run
with "aux fuel supply" then find source of failure in fuel system.

It has ignition, or it would not start at all.

This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast.
www.avast.com

<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> What do you think it needs done to get it running?  Looks like he has
> thrown some parts at it without success so far.
>
> --R
>
> On 2/28/16 12:10 PM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> I'd buy this in a a second.
>>
>> On Sunday, February 28, 2016, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> http://annarbor.craigslist.org/cto/5457959480.html
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL, green, velour, doesn't run...

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

What do you think it needs done to get it running?  Looks like he has 
thrown some parts at it without success so far.


--R

On 2/28/16 12:10 PM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes wrote:

I'd buy this in a a second.

On Sunday, February 28, 2016, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


http://annarbor.craigslist.org/cto/5457959480.html

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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL, green, velour, doesn't run...

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

I'd buy this in a a second.

On Sunday, February 28, 2016, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> http://annarbor.craigslist.org/cto/5457959480.html
>
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL, green, velour, doesn't run...

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Oh wow I would love to get ahold of that car but way way way overpriced

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 28, 2016, at 9:22 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> http://annarbor.craigslist.org/cto/5457959480.html
> 
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[MBZ] 500SEL, green, velour, doesn't run...

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

http://annarbor.craigslist.org/cto/5457959480.html

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[MBZ] 500SEL AMG - or Not?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Anybody know how you can authenticate an older AMG build, such as one on a 1983 
500SEL?

There’s some guy over on BenzWorld trying to pawn off one of these as an AMG 
and there’s little other than cosmetic stuff that is AMG on the car.  He’s 
claiming the engine and drive train were modified by AMG as well, but it looks 
totally stock.

Just curious.

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL AMG - or Not?

[clay via Mercedes]

Engine would have been signed by the guy that built it.  If there is no 
indication of this on the block or a plaque to the effect with engraved 
signature there, it is just a pig with lipstick.  All AMG engines were signed 
by the ONE guy who took it from parts to testing.  I am assuming there are 
other indication on the suspension and other AMG specific parts.  Matching part 
numbers on the body panels, the engine # will not match the build sheet from 
factory.



clay 

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








On Nov 20, 2015, at 4:47 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

> Anybody know how you can authenticate an older AMG build, such as one on a 
> 1983 500SEL?
> 
> There’s some guy over on BenzWorld trying to pawn off one of these as an AMG 
> and there’s little other than cosmetic stuff that is AMG on the car.  He’s 
> claiming the engine and drive train were modified by AMG as well, but it 
> looks totally stock.
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> Dan
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL AMG - or Not?

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

I think you can check with AMG or now the Benz factory to get details if you 
have the vin. 

--R (sent from my miniPad)

On Nov 20, 2015, at 8:55 PM, clay via Mercedes  wrote:

Engine would have been signed by the guy that built it.  If there is no 
indication of this on the block or a plaque to the effect with engraved 
signature there, it is just a pig with lipstick.  All AMG engines were signed 
by the ONE guy who took it from parts to testing.  I am assuming there are 
other indication on the suspension and other AMG specific parts.  Matching part 
numbers on the body panels, the engine # will not match the build sheet from 
factory.



clay 

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








> On Nov 20, 2015, at 4:47 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> 
> Anybody know how you can authenticate an older AMG build, such as one on a 
> 1983 500SEL?
> 
> There’s some guy over on BenzWorld trying to pawn off one of these as an AMG 
> and there’s little other than cosmetic stuff that is AMG on the car.  He’s 
> claiming the engine and drive train were modified by AMG as well, but it 
> looks totally stock.
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> Dan
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL AMG - or Not?

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I don’t know about the signature if it was a pre-merger vehicle, which this 
would definitely be.

There have been some good posts about this since, such as cams having “AMG 
50.1” on the ends, exhaust manifolds being two piece (AMG) or four in one, and 
solid lifter clips on each rocker.

Good reference material.

Dan


> On Nov 20, 2015, at 9:30 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I think you can check with AMG or now the Benz factory to get details if you 
> have the vin. 
> 
> --R (sent from my miniPad)
> 
> On Nov 20, 2015, at 8:55 PM, clay via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> Engine would have been signed by the guy that built it.  If there is no 
> indication of this on the block or a plaque to the effect with engraved 
> signature there, it is just a pig with lipstick.  All AMG engines were signed 
> by the ONE guy who took it from parts to testing.  I am assuming there are 
> other indication on the suspension and other AMG specific parts.  Matching 
> part numbers on the body panels, the engine # will not match the build sheet 
> from factory.
> 
> 
> 
> clay 
> 
> 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
> 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
> 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
> 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
> 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
> POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 20, 2015, at 4:47 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> 
>> Anybody know how you can authenticate an older AMG build, such as one on a 
>> 1983 500SEL?
>> 
>> There’s some guy over on BenzWorld trying to pawn off one of these as an AMG 
>> and there’s little other than cosmetic stuff that is AMG on the car.  He’s 
>> claiming the engine and drive train were modified by AMG as well, but it 
>> looks totally stock.
>> 
>> Just curious.
>> 
>> Dan
>> ___
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL AMG - or Not?

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

I don't know about the signature if it was a pre-merger vehicle, 
which this would definitely be.


There have been some good posts about this since, such as cams 
having "AMG 50.1" on the ends, exhaust manifolds being two piece 
(AMG) or four in one, and solid lifter clips on each rocker.


Good reference material.

Dan


Oooh!  My SDLs have 2 piece exhaust manifolds!  Therefore I have not 
one, but 2 AMG cars!   I'll bet they are "Pebble Beach Eligible" also.


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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[Jim Cathey]

Any chance the fuel pump is shutting off when in 'run' position?
They come on during cranking, but depend upon the RPM-sensor
in order to stay running.

The 380SL I once bought on the cheap acted something like that.
I was kind to the PO, and towed it away on a rope rather than
jumping around the relay and driving it off in front of him.

I resoldered the relay later that day, and the car was a
daily driver after that.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[Dan Penoff]

Possibly.  I'm still trying to coordinate a visit to check it out.

Pins 7  8 to jumper the fuel pump in the relay socket.

Thanks!

Dan


On Jul 13, 2014, at 12:50 PM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote:

 Any chance the fuel pump is shutting off when in 'run' position?
 They come on during cranking, but depend upon the RPM-sensor
 in order to stay running.
 
 The 380SL I once bought on the cheap acted something like that.
 I was kind to the PO, and towed it away on a rope rather than
 jumping around the relay and driving it off in front of him.
 
 I resoldered the relay later that day, and the car was a
 daily driver after that.
 
 -- Jim
 
 
 
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 individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has 
 no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.


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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[Jim Cathey]

Pins 7  8 to jumper the fuel pump in the relay socket.


I made a cable using some surplus connector pins and a
spare dome-light rocker switch.

-- Jim



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[MBZ] 500SEL

[Dan Penoff]

Going to go take a look at this car tomorrow if I can sort my schedule out:

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hdo/cto/4509129072.html

Any ideas/suggestions as to what to look for as far as it starting but not 
staying running?

Thanks,

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[Rich Thomas]

I would presume he has CHANGED THE FILTERS or maybe the new fuel pump is 
buggered somehow, or injectors?  Definitely sounds like a fuel delivery 
issue, as long as it is getting sparkies.


In any case offer him $1k and haul it home.  That looks like a really 
nice car.  Could drop a 617 in there too...


--R


On 7/12/14 6:05 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

Going to go take a look at this car tomorrow if I can sort my schedule out:

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hdo/cto/4509129072.html

Any ideas/suggestions as to what to look for as far as it starting but not 
staying running?

Thanks,

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[Dan Penoff]

I would have to brush up on my CIS knowledge (this was a CIS engine, right?)  
Not sure why a filter would allow it to start but not run, unless it was just 
getting fuel from the priming solenoid (I can't recall the actual name of the 
part, you know what I mean.)

It's about an hour away, so I would have to find a way to get it home.

Anyone else want to chime in?

Thanks, Rich.

Dan



On Jul 12, 2014, at 6:18 PM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net 
wrote:

 I would presume he has CHANGED THE FILTERS or maybe the new fuel pump is 
 buggered somehow, or injectors?  Definitely sounds like a fuel delivery 
 issue, as long as it is getting sparkies.
 
 In any case offer him $1k and haul it home.  That looks like a really nice 
 car.  Could drop a 617 in there too...
 
 --R
 
 
 On 7/12/14 6:05 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
 Going to go take a look at this car tomorrow if I can sort my schedule out:
 
 http://tampa.craigslist.org/hdo/cto/4509129072.html
 
 Any ideas/suggestions as to what to look for as far as it starting but not 
 staying running?
 
 Thanks,
 
 Dan
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[Rich Thomas]

Go rent a truck and dolly for the day, probably wouldn't cost more than 
$100.


Also check for spuds up the exhaust pipe (not that I would know anything 
about spuds in an exhaust pipe).


--R


On 7/12/14 6:21 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

It's about an hour away, so I would have to find a way to get it home.



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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[Peter Frederick]

A stuck metering flap will do that, so will a serious air leak (boot  
between air meter flap on the fuel distributor and the throttle body  
is one, and on that car, the seals between the upper and lower  
manifold parts).


Could also be a dead alternator, sometimes the fuel pump relay kicks  
out if the alternator is bad.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[Dwight Giles]

Wild a.. gues. Fuel distributor  EHA. Just helping a friend with that on.
a 560sel that sat. Nice looking car.
On Jul 12, 2014 6:05 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote:

 Going to go take a look at this car tomorrow if I can sort my schedule out:

 http://tampa.craigslist.org/hdo/cto/4509129072.html

 Any ideas/suggestions as to what to look for as far as it starting but not
 staying running?

 Thanks,

 Dan
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[Craig]

On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 18:05:02 -0400 Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote:

 Going to go take a look at this car tomorrow if I can sort my schedule
 out:
 
 http://tampa.craigslist.org/hdo/cto/4509129072.html

If you like gold, more power to you!


 Any ideas/suggestions as to what to look for as far as it starting but
 not staying running?

If it has an old fashioned ignition, I would suggest the ballast
resistor is open. (The ballast resistor is shorted in the crank
position.)


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[David Bruckmann]

On the older cars, the starting circuit bypassed the coil resistor pack for 
brighter spark during cranking. Maybe the resistor is fried and, when rejoined 
into the circuit, causes spark to fail. If it only fires during cranking then 
that's a definite culprit...


On 7/12/14, Dan Penoff wrote:

Going to go take a look at this car tomorrow if I can sort my schedule out:

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hdo/cto/4509129072.html

Any ideas/suggestions as to what to look for as far as it starting but not 
staying running?

Thanks,

Dan


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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[Dan Penoff]

I have had a couple champagne colored MBs.  Didn't start out liking them, but 
the color sort of grew on me.

I like the ballast resistor possibility, but I don't know if it runs then dies, 
,or dies as soon as the key is released.  That would be a giveaway.

Anyone know where the ballast resistor would be located on this car?  I never 
had a W126 vergasser (at least not for long) so I'm not familiar with where it 
would be.  I have a good idea what it looks like, as I've seen them on plenty 
of other models...

Thanks!

Dan

 
On Jul 12, 2014, at 6:39 PM, Craig diese...@pisquared.net wrote:

 On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 18:05:02 -0400 Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote:
 
 Going to go take a look at this car tomorrow if I can sort my schedule
 out:
 
 http://tampa.craigslist.org/hdo/cto/4509129072.html
 
 If you like gold, more power to you!
 
 
 Any ideas/suggestions as to what to look for as far as it starting but
 not staying running?
 
 If it has an old fashioned ignition, I would suggest the ballast
 resistor is open. (The ballast resistor is shorted in the crank
 position.)
 
 
 Craig
 
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[David Bruckmann]

Well, so much for that. Just checked the manual and it looks like the 5 litre 
cars after about 1981 don't have the resistors; they have something else 
instead in the controller.


Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:00:47 -0700
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
From: David Bruckmann bruckma...@transcontinental.ca
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 500SEL
Cc: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com

On the older cars, the starting circuit bypassed the coil resistor pack for 
brighter spark during cranking. Maybe the resistor is fried and, when rejoined 
into the circuit, causes spark to fail. If it only fires during cranking then 
that's a definite culprit...


On 7/12/14, Dan Penoff wrote:

Going to go take a look at this car tomorrow if I can sort my schedule out:

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hdo/cto/4509129072.html

Any ideas/suggestions as to what to look for as far as it starting but not 
staying running?

Thanks,

Dan


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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Probably bad warm up regulator

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 12, 2014, at 5:21 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote:
 
 I would have to brush up on my CIS knowledge (this was a CIS engine, right?)  
 Not sure why a filter would allow it to start but not run, unless it was just 
 getting fuel from the priming solenoid (I can't recall the actual name of the 
 part, you know what I mean.)
 
 It's about an hour away, so I would have to find a way to get it home.
 
 Anyone else want to chime in?
 
 Thanks, Rich.
 
 Dan
 
 
 
 On Jul 12, 2014, at 6:18 PM, Rich Thomas 
 richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:
 
 I would presume he has CHANGED THE FILTERS or maybe the new fuel pump is 
 buggered somehow, or injectors?  Definitely sounds like a fuel delivery 
 issue, as long as it is getting sparkies.
 
 In any case offer him $1k and haul it home.  That looks like a really nice 
 car.  Could drop a 617 in there too...
 
 --R
 
 
 On 7/12/14 6:05 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
 Going to go take a look at this car tomorrow if I can sort my schedule out:
 
 http://tampa.craigslist.org/hdo/cto/4509129072.html
 
 Any ideas/suggestions as to what to look for as far as it starting but not 
 staying running?
 
 Thanks,
 
 Dan
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[LarryT]

was there a carFax?

LarryT

On 7/12/2014 6:05 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

Going to go take a look at this car tomorrow if I can sort my schedule out:

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hdo/cto/4509129072.html

Any ideas/suggestions as to what to look for as far as it starting but not 
staying running?

Thanks,

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[Dwight Giles]

Well we have a contest going here of possible causes. Hopefully Dan will be
able to tell us next week
On Jul 12, 2014 7:11 PM, David Bruckmann bruckma...@transcontinental.ca
wrote:

 Well, so much for that. Just checked the manual and it looks like the 5
 litre cars after about 1981 don't have the resistors; they have something
 else instead in the controller.


 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:00:47 -0700
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
 From: David Bruckmann bruckma...@transcontinental.ca
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] 500SEL
 Cc: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com
 
 On the older cars, the starting circuit bypassed the coil resistor pack
 for brighter spark during cranking. Maybe the resistor is fried and, when
 rejoined into the circuit, causes spark to fail. If it only fires during
 cranking then that's a definite culprit...
 
 
 On 7/12/14, Dan Penoff wrote:
 
 Going to go take a look at this car tomorrow if I can sort my schedule
 out:
 
 http://tampa.craigslist.org/hdo/cto/4509129072.html
 
 Any ideas/suggestions as to what to look for as far as it starting but
 not staying running?
 
 Thanks,
 
 Dan
 

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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[Curt Raymond]

Closer to $150 depending on how you can work the rental company. At least 
that's about what it ran me last year to get my 240d home.

Curt

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 12, 2014, at 6:26 PM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net 
wrote:

 Go rent a truck and dolly for the day, probably wouldn't cost more than $100.
 
 Also check for spuds up the exhaust pipe (not that I would know anything 
 about spuds in an exhaust pipe).
 
 --R
 
 
 On 7/12/14 6:21 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
 It's about an hour away, so I would have to find a way to get it home.
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

[Alex Chamberlain]

Thanks for all the help, guys!  I haven't had time to play with the
car for a few days, but when I do I'll report back.

David wrote:
 Before worrying about pressure, check the linkages between the height 
 correctors
 and the control lever inside the car. Since both ends of the car are rising 
 somewhat,
 and the height is the same (but low), I would check that first. What happens 
 if you
 raise the lever inside the car?

The height control lever inside the car (actually a pull-knob next to
the headlight switch---confusingly, it looks just like the parking
brake release on a 107) doesn't do anything.  I haven't tried
disconnecting the linkage to the front control valve and moving the
arm manually, which should theoretically raise or lower the whole
car---I was putting it off because the linkage is kind of buried
between the firewalls at the bottom of the windshield.

 There is a central pressure regulator, located logically in the pressure 
 circuit
 so that it controls fluid delivery to the fifth sphere, which is the 
 central accumulator/pressure
 reserve sphere. On the 6.9 this sphere is on the driver's side adjacent to 
 the suspension sphere.
 I don't know where it is on a W126.
 The system is designed around a common working pressure as delivered from 
 that point on.

Yeah, I have a fifth sphere in the same place, with an electronic
pressure sensor attached.  I replaced that sphere when I did all the
others.  I don't see any specification anywhere for that sensor, which
would be nice to have, rather than having to check directly that the
sphere is holding pressure (how would I do that anyway, apart from the
old stick a pencil in the hole test?).  I guess it could have been
bad right out the box...

 apart from the (very basic) schematic in maintenance job 086, you might want 
 to check
 maintenance job 629, which provides information about how to test system 
 pressures.
 Importantly, it also shows images of the normal positioning of the height 
 selector linkage
 at the pressure regulator on the fluid tank. The pics are from a 116; not 
 sure if the 126 is
 set up the same way, but you might recognise the pieces...

Aha!  I had missed that one, thanks.  Yes, the pictures of the
gadgetry on top of the tank look exactly like mine.   I'll use that to
make sure that the linkages are set up correctly.  I hope it doesn't
come to having to run through the entire pressure testing procedure,
but if it does, the official pressure tester looks like something that
could easily be cobbled together with parts from McMaster-Carr.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote:
 I find it hard to believe that the hydraulic fluid tank is really a
 pressure reservoir

 Can't be, it's plastic.  Would explode.

Yeah, that's what I thought.  The coolant overflow tank is plastic,
but then it's not connected directly to a pump putting out 2900 psi.

Unfortunately that mistake tends to make me take anything else that
Star Motors says about the functioning and repair of the system with a
grain of salt.

 There also seems to be some disagreement as to whether the system
 constantly recirculates fluid---in which case the health of the pump
 would be extremely important---

 It must.  The pump is four radial pistons.  It's always pumping.

Right, let's stipulate, as our colleague Snook, Esq. would say, that I
already knew that.  ;)  The question I should have posed was, does the
main flow control valve allow the high-pressure fluid from the pump to
enter the rest of the system (i.e. the level control valves, struts,
and nitrogen spheres) at all times?  Or does it merely recirculate the
pump's output back to its input via the reservoir unless additional
pressure to compensate for added cargo weight is required?  Which is
the case with rear-only SLS?  (It's very likely the same answer for
both systems, I think.)

 Oh, and fuel filters can be sintered bronze.  Restrictors such
 as those in the vacuum system, etc.

Meaning that there's a reason for that little filter I found inside
the flow control valve to be a sintered bronze solid rather than
something less exotic, like a fine flat screen, for example?  Would
soaking it in brake cleaner as I did be enough to restore its degree
of restriction, if there is one, to specs?

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

[Mitch Haley]

Alex Chamberlain wrote:


Meaning that there's a reason for that little filter I found inside
the flow control valve to be a sintered bronze solid rather than
something less exotic, like a fine flat screen, for example?  Would
soaking it in brake cleaner as I did be enough to restore its degree
of restriction, if there is one, to specs?


My rear only system has a very fine nylon filter screen in the top of the 
reservoir, filtering the return fluid before it goes through the reservoir to 
the pump.
When we had those sintered bronze things in carburetors, we used to replace them 
every time we replaced the spark plugs, or if we had a suspected fuel supply 
problem. Cost a dollar or less back then.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

[Jim Cathey]

Meaning that there's a reason for that little filter I found inside
the flow control valve to be a sintered bronze solid rather than
something less exotic, like a fine flat screen, for example?


Well, they're physically robust, small, and cheap.  What's not to like?


Would soaking it in brake cleaner as I did be enough to restore
its degree of restriction, if there is one, to specs?


Well, I don't think they're particularly cleanable.  That's one
thing not to like!  Pushing a suitable solvent through in
'reverse' is not too easy on those, especially at a pace that
will carry out embedded dirt.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

[Max Dillon]

On the rear SLS for my 123 and 124 wagons, the fluid was circulated from the
pump to the control valve and back to the reservoir/filter when the engine
was running.  The control valve decided if additional pressure _on the other
side of the circuit which is struts and accumulators_ was needed to maintain
the rear axle height.

I was surprised at the slow reaction speed of the system.  In my opinion,
the pump output is low volume but capable of high pressure.  The pressure on
the working side of the circuit is high.

You may need to get yourself a hydraulic pressure gauge and start taking
some measurements at different points to determine where pressure exists and
where it does not meet spec.  I'm still suspicious of your pump.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Alex Chamberlain
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 9:46 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote:
 I find it hard to believe that the hydraulic fluid tank is really a
 pressure reservoir

 Can't be, it's plastic.  Would explode.

Yeah, that's what I thought.  The coolant overflow tank is plastic,
but then it's not connected directly to a pump putting out 2900 psi.

Unfortunately that mistake tends to make me take anything else that
Star Motors says about the functioning and repair of the system with a
grain of salt.

 There also seems to be some disagreement as to whether the system
 constantly recirculates fluid---in which case the health of the pump
 would be extremely important---

 It must.  The pump is four radial pistons.  It's always pumping.

Right, let's stipulate, as our colleague Snook, Esq. would say, that I
already knew that.  ;)  The question I should have posed was, does the
main flow control valve allow the high-pressure fluid from the pump to
enter the rest of the system (i.e. the level control valves, struts,
and nitrogen spheres) at all times?  Or does it merely recirculate the
pump's output back to its input via the reservoir unless additional
pressure to compensate for added cargo weight is required?  Which is
the case with rear-only SLS?  (It's very likely the same answer for
both systems, I think.)

 Oh, and fuel filters can be sintered bronze.  Restrictors such
 as those in the vacuum system, etc.

Meaning that there's a reason for that little filter I found inside
the flow control valve to be a sintered bronze solid rather than
something less exotic, like a fine flat screen, for example?  Would
soaking it in brake cleaner as I did be enough to restore its degree
of restriction, if there is one, to specs?

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

[David Bruckmann]

Before worrying about pressure, check the linkages between the height 
correctors and the control lever inside the car. Since both ends of the car are 
rising somewhat, and the height is the same (but low), I would check that 
first. What happens if you raise the lever inside the car? What happens if you 
add load to one end or the other? Does the car adjust?

As to pressure: I do not know for sure, but I imagine that the pressure 
management aspect of the system is as much a copy of Citroën's system as is all 
the rest, therefore:

There is a central pressure regulator, located logically in the pressure 
circuit so that it controls fluid delivery to the fifth sphere, which is the 
central accumulator/pressure reserve sphere. On the 6.9 this sphere is on the 
driver's side adjacent to the suspension sphere. I don't know where it is on a 
W126.

The system is designed around a common working pressure as delivered from that 
point on. This allows the pump to be variable output (with RPM). Extra fluid is 
simply routed back to the reservoir without pressure. 

Look for the place where the largest reservoir return line originates. This 
will be the pressure regulator (the line must be able to handle full pump flow, 
unlike the suspension element return lines which only handle leak-by).

The pressure regulator (again, I'm talking about Citroën, you'll need to verify 
the MB implementation) has a ball valve and a calibrated spring. There's also 
an adjustment screw to set the relief pressure. NOTE: an under-pressure 
reserve/main accumulator sphere can weaken/damage the pressure regulator valve 
if there's too much cycling of the valve.  

You should test overall system pressure as measured on the CONTROLLED side of 
the regulator valve, and verify the gas pressure in the central accumulator. 
Those are the most important numbers.

D.  


 On 1/6/2011 12:55 PM, Alex Chamberlain wrote:
 But the car, though at the same height front and back, won't
 rise to normal ride height overall.  It's too low all the way around,
 by about three inches;
 
 Any suggestions appreciated!
 
 Alex
 
 

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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

[Rich Thomas]

You want the ride height hydraulics to be slow response, otherwise they 
would be chasing all kinds of bumps and what not and the car would be 
gyrating all over the place.  Sort of a built-in analog filter.  Now 
that might be different for the shocks that keep the wheels planted, 
that is a different kettle of ducks.


--R

On 1/7/2011 11:10 AM, Max Dillon wrote:

I was surprised at the slow reaction speed of the system.  In my opinion,
the pump output is low volume but capable of high pressure.  The pressure on
the working side of the circuit is high.

-Max



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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

[Fmiser]

 Alex Chamberlain wrote:

 Right, let's stipulate, as our colleague Snook, Esq. would
 say, that I already knew that.  ;)  The question I should have
 posed was, does the main flow control valve allow the
 high-pressure fluid from the pump to enter the rest of the
 system (i.e. the level control valves, struts, and nitrogen
 spheres) at all times?  Or does it merely recirculate the
 pump's output back to its input via the reservoir unless
 additional pressure to compensate for added cargo weight is
 required?  Which is the case with rear-only SLS?  (It's very
 likely the same answer for both systems, I think.)

I can only speak as an authority on the S123 system...

The pump output goes into a hose with a anti-cavitation
restriction in it and then into the hardline that connects to
the valve inlet.  Unless the valve is positioned to supply
pressure to the struts (I'm lumping the accumulators in the
the struts 'caues for this discussion they work as a team),
the inlet flow is routed to the return line.  If the valve is
positioned to release strut pressure, the strut oil plus the
pump oil is returned to the tank.  The only filter is on the
return flow as it enters the tank.

This means most of the time the only place there is any
significant pressure is between the pump and the
anti-cavitation piece,  and between the valve and the struts.
The rest of the system is just flowing.

I suspect that is how the other systems work also - but that's
just a guess.

I have photos of the insides of the S123 pump and valve if
anyone cares.

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

[Max Dillon]

Agree with all below, and add that the control valve is supposed to maintain
a factory-set base pressure on the strut/accumulator side, regardless of the
position of the lever.  This base pressure is the required pressure to keep
the rear end from sagging when the car is in ready to drive condition
(i.e. no cargo, but full fuel tank, spare tire and tools in place).  If the
system is operating correctly, the only way to relieve the base pressure is
by opening the bleed screw on the control valve or make a leak in one of the
lines to/from strut and accumulator.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Fmiser
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 1:10 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

 Alex Chamberlain wrote:

 Right, let's stipulate, as our colleague Snook, Esq. would
 say, that I already knew that.  ;)  The question I should have
 posed was, does the main flow control valve allow the
 high-pressure fluid from the pump to enter the rest of the
 system (i.e. the level control valves, struts, and nitrogen
 spheres) at all times?  Or does it merely recirculate the
 pump's output back to its input via the reservoir unless
 additional pressure to compensate for added cargo weight is
 required?  Which is the case with rear-only SLS?  (It's very
 likely the same answer for both systems, I think.)

I can only speak as an authority on the S123 system...

The pump output goes into a hose with a anti-cavitation
restriction in it and then into the hardline that connects to
the valve inlet.  Unless the valve is positioned to supply
pressure to the struts (I'm lumping the accumulators in the
the struts 'caues for this discussion they work as a team),
the inlet flow is routed to the return line.  If the valve is
positioned to release strut pressure, the strut oil plus the
pump oil is returned to the tank.  The only filter is on the
return flow as it enters the tank.

This means most of the time the only place there is any
significant pressure is between the pump and the
anti-cavitation piece,  and between the valve and the struts.
The rest of the system is just flowing.

I suspect that is how the other systems work also - but that's
just a guess.

I have photos of the insides of the S123 pump and valve if
anyone cares.

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

[David Bruckmann]

As long as it is clear to everyone that the post that Max is commenting on 
below applied to spring-assisted SLS systems (123/124 wagons and similar). 

The 6.9/Euro-500SEL system is QUITE different, with no steel springs. The 
pressure management is also different, and there's not necessarily a base 
pressure in quite the same sense as in the steel spring systems.

Alex: apart from the (very basic) schematic in maintenance job 086, you might 
want to check maintenance job 629, which provides information about how to test 
system pressures. 

Importantly, it also shows images of the normal positioning of the height 
selector linkage at the pressure regulator on the fluid tank. The pics are from 
a 116; not sure if the 126 is set up the same way, but you might recognise the 
pieces...

D. 


Max Dillon wrote:

 Agree with all below, and add that the control valve is supposed to maintain 
 a factory-set base pressure on the strut/accumulator side, regardless of the 
 position of the lever.  This base pressure is the required pressure to keep 
 the rear end from sagging when the car is in ready to drive condition (i.e. 
 no cargo, but full fuel tank, spare tire and tools in place).  If the system 
 is operating correctly, the only way to relieve the base pressure is by 
 opening the bleed screw on the control valve or make a leak in one of the 
 lines to/from strut and accumulator.
 
 -Max


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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

[David Bruckmann]

This posting on the M-100 6.9 forum may also be helpful:

http://www.m-100.cc/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5862


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[MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

[Alex Chamberlain]

Y'all may remember that a couple of weeks ago I was posting about my
Euro 500SEL with the 6.9-style four-wheel hydro suspension, which was
first pressurizing (lifting the car) at one end but not the other,
then (after sitting overnight) seemed to be pressurizing properly, but
still didn't respond correctly to manual manipulation of the level
control valves (which ought to cause the appropriate end of the car to
rise or fall quickly).

Well, I had another high-pressure leak, this one at one of the
brake-fitting-type connections to the pressure regulator on top of the
hydraulic fluid reservoir.  It was just a little loose, but enough to
make the front end drop to the ground.

Since the system was already depressurized, I decided to follow a
suggestion I read on the MBCA forums.  Someone mentioned there that
there's a metering system and filter built into the regulator,
accessible by loosening what appears to be a large bolt on the rear of
the regulator, which can sometimes cause trouble.  I undid that bolt
head and found an interesting mechanism: a long bolt with an o-ring
halfway down it, an orifice in the form of a hole drilled crossways
through the bolt, and a weird gold-colored object, which I guess is a
kind of filter.  It looks sort of like fine bronze wool compressed
tightly into a conical shape; it's hard, but looks spongy and porous
under a magnifying glass.  It didn't seem dirty, but I soaked it in
brake cleaner anyway while I cleaned out the orifice in the special
bolt (dirty but not completely obstructed) and replaced the O-ring
(hard and brittle).

When I put everything back together and started the car, the front end
didn't rise at all, but the rear end immediately rose to maximum
height and stayed there.   When I pressed down on the trunk, it
wouldn't budge, as if the struts were stuck in maximum-pressure mode
and the spheres weren't working.

Baffled, I carefully reread the parts of the FSM dealing with the
hydraulic system, and found a very brief and very vague mention that
the leveling valves may under certain circumstances achieve maximum
pressure and fail to release. The fix is to empty the system of fluid
at the end of the car that's too high, make sure the level control
valve is hooked up to the sway bar properly, and then start the car
again and let the system repressurize correctly.

That worked to bring the rear end down, but the front of the car was
still too low.  I took it out for a short, slow test drive, gingerly
avoiding potholes and high spots in the road so as not to scrape the
front end.  It rode smoothly, as it's supposed to, and after about ten
minutes the body leveled out.  I stopped and checked the hydraulic
fluid level---it was right in the middle between the high and low
marks.  But the car, though at the same height front and back, won't
rise to normal ride height overall.  It's too low all the way around,
by about three inches; the suspension warning light is on; and
manipulating the level control valves doesn't raise either end.

Attached are some crummy cell-phone pictures of the metering bolt and
the weird bronze filter thingy (as well as my shop helper, who finds
the intake system of a warm M117 engine to be a perfect place to sit
and meditate).  I cannot find any reference to this mechanism in the
126 CD-ROM FSM, the 116 FSM, or the factory supplement for 1980 that
covers the differences between the 6.9 and lesser 116s. I wonder if
these parts are present in some form in the rear-only SLS systems,
and, if so, might explain some mystery problems that people have had
with their wagons?

The big question at this point is, why doesn't the car pump up the
struts to the correct pressure to reach normal ride height?  I plan to
test the hydraulic pump pressure next, but there seems to be
conflicting information online as to whether a failing pump can
actually even be a cause of low ride height.  The Star Motors
troubleshooting guide at
http://www.starmotorsny.com/pdf/HydroSuspGuide.pdf refers to the fluid
tank as a pressure reservoir and gives lack of sufficient pressure
in reservoir as the first thing to check if the car is low all the
way around and the warning light is on (but doesn't even mention the
pump as a possible cause of those symptoms!).

I find it hard to believe that the hydraulic fluid tank is really a
pressure reservoir in the same sense as, say, the coolant overflow
tank.  For one thing, if I open the filler/dipstick cover on top while
the car's running, there's no sense of pressure being relieved (like
there is with the cooling system); for another, the dipstick cover
itself is not designed to seal tightly (it doesn't screw in, just a
press fit).  (But if it really is subject to pressure, I need to take
it out and check it for leaks, I guess.)

There also seems to be some disagreement as to whether the system
constantly recirculates fluid---in which case the health of the pump
would be extremely important---or whether the pump is only used when
the 

Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

[Rich Thomas]

Sell it to a Mexican as an exotic low-rider!

Don't take it to a shop, on that Top Gear with the 600Grosser his 
checkup repair bill was 15k pounds!


--R

On 1/6/2011 12:55 PM, Alex Chamberlain wrote:

But the car, though at the same height front and back, won't
rise to normal ride height overall.  It's too low all the way around,
by about three inches;

Any suggestions appreciated!

Alex



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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

[Peter Frederick]

Check for a filter at the base of the reservoir.  If you do have one  
there and it's full of crud, you may not be delivering enough fluid.


I would double-check the o-rings on the filter, and apply some gentle  
air pressure from the back side of the sintered filter to make sure  
it's allowing fluid through.  Could be clogged, and that would  
account for the low riding issue anyway.


So could a stuck pressure relief on the pump, for that matter -- no  
fluid delivery!


You might want to bleed it a bit too -- open a fitting slightly on  
the front or rear and verify that you get fluid flow while the engine  
is running.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 4:19 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote:
 Check for a filter at the base of the reservoir.  If you do have one there
 and it's full of crud, you may not be delivering enough fluid.


There's a filter inside the reservoir which I replaced, although it
didn't seem to need it.  The low-pressure line at the bottom of the
tank going back to the pump is clear.

 I would double-check the o-rings on the filter, and apply some gentle air
 pressure from the back side of the sintered filter to make sure it's
 allowing fluid through.  Could be clogged, and that would account for the
 low riding issue anyway.

That's a good thought.  (So that's what that material the filter is
made of is called!  I'd only ever heard the term sintered applied to
ceramics before.)


 So could a stuck pressure relief on the pump, for that matter -- no fluid
 delivery!

Makes sense; another reason to check the pump for pressure and replace
it with another used unit if necessary.


 You might want to bleed it a bit too -- open a fitting slightly on the front
 or rear and verify that you get fluid flow while the engine is running.

That I've done.  There is some fluid flow, at both the front and rear
bleed valves, and it was clear and free of air bubbles, although not
the dangerously high-pressure spray that I was expecting.  Possibly a
clue there.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL hydro suspension still acting up (or down)

[Jim Cathey]

I find it hard to believe that the hydraulic fluid tank is really a
pressure reservoir


Can't be, it's plastic.  Would explode.


There also seems to be some disagreement as to whether the system
constantly recirculates fluid---in which case the health of the pump
would be extremely important---


It must.  The pump is four radial pistons.  It's always pumping.

Oh, and fuel filters can be sintered bronze.  Restrictors such
as those in the vacuum system, etc.

-- Jim



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[MBZ] 500SEL

[Frederick W Moir]

Hi, All.
Passed by a 500SEL and took some pictures.
Basic info: 1985, one owner, Florida car, no rust that I could see. 
$3500. Too much tint to see much inside except for very clean and sun 
has faded some of the wooden dash trim.
I'll send pics to anyone who would like them, and on Teusday next 
I'll be in the area and could kick tyres etc.
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
I don't have enough galley slaves to row this barge.


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Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[Jim Cathey]

not a 560SEL, but 500.  I am not familiar with these cars.  Is this a
Euro car?


Usually, as I understand it.  They may or may not have all the goodies
that a 560 would have had.  I was all excited by the 500 SEL that made
it to our U-Pull last year, but found it didn't have the hydraulic
suspension.  Did have heated seats, though.  (They're now in my parts
pile, switches [3 of 4], relays, cables and all.)

-- Jim

Re: [MBZ] 500SEL

[Desert Rat]

In 84 and 85, there was an US model 500SEL.

On 12/19/05, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  not a 560SEL, but 500.  I am not familiar with these cars.  Is this a
  Euro car?

 Usually, as I understand it.  They may or may not have all the goodies
 that a 560 would have had.  I was all excited by the 500 SEL that made
 it to our U-Pull last year, but found it didn't have the hydraulic
 suspension.  Did have heated seats, though.  (They're now in my parts
 pile, switches [3 of 4], relays, cables and all.)

 -- Jim


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--
John Freer
Palm Springs, CA
1992 500 SEL 140K Stardust
1985 380SL 145K Blue Belle