Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Schade. Take the Turbo off and send it back. That RVT gets in the head and smoking is the start of your problems. Did they really paint the exhaust housing? -Rolf On 3/16/2012 11:39 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Photo of the new turbo hanging in place and one showing the missing stud. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2022 sm.jpg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 341545 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20120316/c2ea3054/attachment.obj -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2023sm.jpg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 314952 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20120316/c2ea3054/attachment-0001.obj ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
I prefer loctite 518 for my sealing needs. Walt On Mar 19, 2012 11:42 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I have been a fan of the blue permatex in small quantities. as in put a little on your finger and rub it on the surface. It takes almost none to work well. I have seen frod dealers smear way too much black RTV on everything in sight. Many times the blue goo has bailed me out when I needed an extra hand to hold a gasket in place, or didn't have a gasket. I never liked the red stuff because it is not as easy to just rub on a minuscule amount. The good Dr. Booth didn't like any, and on MBs, I rarely use any. I disagree on an outright ban on silicon based sealants. Marshall always said not to use that stuff. Guess he was right again. Thanx for pics. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-bounces@** okiebenz.com mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 11:35 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL More followup: The photo shows how obstructed the oil passage was with red RTV gunk. still a lot of RTV on the turbo after I pulled a massive amount off. What I pulled off can be seen in the background of the photo with the turbo. The other photo is a closup of the rtv I pulled off. I know there is intelligent life in Arkieland, but there sure are some stupid ones too. (Car was from Arkieland) -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2025sm.jpg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 277949 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.** com/attachments/201203http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/201203 16/12f977ec/attachment.obj -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2026.JPG Type: application/octet-stream Size: 347115 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.** com/attachments/201203http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/201203 16/12f977ec/attachment-0001.**obj __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Dieselhead wrote: I have been a fan of the blue permatex in small quantities. as in put a little on your finger and rub it on the surface. It takes almost none to work well. I have seen frod dealers smear way too much black RTV on everything in sight. Many times the blue goo has bailed me out when I needed an extra hand to hold a gasket in place, or didn't have a gasket. I never liked the red stuff because it is not as easy to just rub on a minuscule amount. The good Dr. Booth didn't like any, and on MBs, I rarely use any. I disagree on an outright ban on silicon based sealants. There is little on an MB that I believe silicone can do better than Hylomar, but gasket positioning might be included, I haven't really compared the temporary adhesive ability of Hylomar vs uncured silicone. The only high volume practicing mechanic I can recall posting here on the subject, John Berrymann, claimed that his comeback percentage on head gaskets dropped to zero after he began dressing head gaskets with minuscule amounts of Hylomar. I'm reasonably sure that you could not look at an engine he'd worked on and tell from sight whether there was any Hylomar in there. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
FWIW, Hylomar worked well on a leaking Yanmar head gasket (1-lung marine motor) I replaced 6-8 years ago. Hylomar will not fill big gaps but you better not have big gaps on a Diesel head (I had mine planed before reinstall). Just one data point. Scott -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Haley Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 8:23 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL Dieselhead wrote: I have been a fan of the blue permatex in small quantities. as in put a little on your finger and rub it on the surface. It takes almost none to work well. I have seen frod dealers smear way too much black RTV on everything in sight. Many times the blue goo has bailed me out when I needed an extra hand to hold a gasket in place, or didn't have a gasket. I never liked the red stuff because it is not as easy to just rub on a minuscule amount. The good Dr. Booth didn't like any, and on MBs, I rarely use any. I disagree on an outright ban on silicon based sealants. There is little on an MB that I believe silicone can do better than Hylomar, but gasket positioning might be included, I haven't really compared the temporary adhesive ability of Hylomar vs uncured silicone. The only high volume practicing mechanic I can recall posting here on the subject, John Berrymann, claimed that his comeback percentage on head gaskets dropped to zero after he began dressing head gaskets with minuscule amounts of Hylomar. I'm reasonably sure that you could not look at an engine he'd worked on and tell from sight whether there was any Hylomar in there. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Photo of the new turbo hanging in place and one showing the missing stud. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2022 sm.jpg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 341545 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20120316/c2ea3054/attachment.obj -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2023sm.jpg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 314952 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20120316/c2ea3054/attachment-0001.obj ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
More followup: The photo shows how obstructed the oil passage was with red RTV gunk. still a lot of RTV on the turbo after I pulled a massive amount off. What I pulled off can be seen in the background of the photo with the turbo. The other photo is a closup of the rtv I pulled off. I know there is intelligent life in Arkieland, but there sure are some stupid ones too. (Car was from Arkieland) -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2025sm.jpg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 277949 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20120316/12f977ec/attachment.obj -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2026.JPG Type: application/octet-stream Size: 347115 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20120316/12f977ec/attachment-0001.obj ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 22:34:34 -0500 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: More followup: The photo shows how obstructed the oil passage was with red RTV gunk. still a lot of RTV on the turbo after I pulled a massive amount off. What I pulled off can be seen in the background of the photo with the turbo. The other photo is a closup of the rtv I pulled off. What is the scale of the closeup picture? A ruler, or even a thumb, in the picture would have helped. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Bolt holes are 8mm. top to bottom of the machined surface is maybe 2 I don't write manuals. I don't have a photographer standing by. You are lucky that I think enough of y'all to try to clean up and take a few pitchurs ; ) I admit it would be nice to have a good writeup with pictures, but when I am covered with black Diesel crankcase oil mixed with road dirt, I am not much in the mood for photography. I found precious little to go by, so there is a need for a good manual. On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 22:34:34 -0500 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: More followup: The photo shows how obstructed the oil passage was with red RTV gunk. still a lot of RTV on the turbo after I pulled a massive amount off. What I pulled off can be seen in the background of the photo with the turbo. The other photo is a closup of the rtv I pulled off. What is the scale of the closeup picture? A ruler, or even a thumb, in the picture would have helped. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Marshall always said not to use that stuff. Guess he was right again. Thanx for pics. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 11:35 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL More followup: The photo shows how obstructed the oil passage was with red RTV gunk. still a lot of RTV on the turbo after I pulled a massive amount off. What I pulled off can be seen in the background of the photo with the turbo. The other photo is a closup of the rtv I pulled off. I know there is intelligent life in Arkieland, but there sure are some stupid ones too. (Car was from Arkieland) -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2025sm.jpg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 277949 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/201203 16/12f977ec/attachment.obj -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2026.JPG Type: application/octet-stream Size: 347115 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/201203 16/12f977ec/attachment-0001.obj ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Silicone sealant in places where it should not be used is a sign of a very poor mechanic. My buddy the MB guy rejected a rebuilt 420 once, had orange silicone all over. He refused to install it, said it was an absolute certainty that nothing was right with it. Cost $4500, too. There is no need to use ANY sealant on that gasket. It's probably like the one for my brother's 75 300D -- comes from the factory with adhesive on both sides protected by silicone release paper. Peel, stick, and tighten, that's all, but some genius decided half a tube of RTV was necessary instead. Of course, it all squeezed out into the oil line, and piled up on the feed orifice and starved the turbo of oil, so it failed in short order. There are only a few places on any MB engine that I know of that use RTV -- upper pan on some models (not the 603, it has a gasket), upper chain case cover on the M103, occasional covers for things. Almost always black RTV in a very small (1/8 or less bead) amount on machined surfaces, never on gaskets of any kind. Only other sealant used is permatex paint-on stuff for thermostat housings on older engines. Newer ones have o-ring seals, no sealant required. Peter On Mar 19, 2012, at 9:55 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote: Marshall always said not to use that stuff. Guess he was right again. Thanx for pics. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes- boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 11:35 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL More followup: The photo shows how obstructed the oil passage was with red RTV gunk. still a lot of RTV on the turbo after I pulled a massive amount off. What I pulled off can be seen in the background of the photo with the turbo. The other photo is a closup of the rtv I pulled off. I know there is intelligent life in Arkieland, but there sure are some stupid ones too. (Car was from Arkieland) -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2025sm.jpg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 277949 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/ attachments/201203 16/12f977ec/attachment.obj -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2026.JPG Type: application/octet-stream Size: 347115 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/ attachments/201203 16/12f977ec/attachment-0001.obj ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
I have been a fan of the blue permatex in small quantities. as in put a little on your finger and rub it on the surface. It takes almost none to work well. I have seen frod dealers smear way too much black RTV on everything in sight. Many times the blue goo has bailed me out when I needed an extra hand to hold a gasket in place, or didn't have a gasket. I never liked the red stuff because it is not as easy to just rub on a minuscule amount. The good Dr. Booth didn't like any, and on MBs, I rarely use any. I disagree on an outright ban on silicon based sealants. Marshall always said not to use that stuff. Guess he was right again. Thanx for pics. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 11:35 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL More followup: The photo shows how obstructed the oil passage was with red RTV gunk. still a lot of RTV on the turbo after I pulled a massive amount off. What I pulled off can be seen in the background of the photo with the turbo. The other photo is a closup of the rtv I pulled off. I know there is intelligent life in Arkieland, but there sure are some stupid ones too. (Car was from Arkieland) -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2025sm.jpg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 277949 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/201203 16/12f977ec/attachment.obj -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_2026.JPG Type: application/octet-stream Size: 347115 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/201203 16/12f977ec/attachment-0001.obj ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Oil gets in compressor naturally from oil breather in head. The oil feed pipe runs right over the exhaust and I've had one break there dripping on exhaust. Haven't really kept up with the thread, sorry. It's a shame I just sold my old one for $80 on ebay :(. The euro manifolds (sans egr) can be had for not that much money and do wonders for the looks of the engine bay :D -Rolf On 3/16/2012 10:23 PM, Dieselhead wrote: How would you get oil in the compressor if the oil feed was leaking? It accounts for leaking outside the turbo, but not oil inside the turbo. Anyhow, I had it just about done by noon, then found a tin ring on the ground. Figured out it must have been inside the flex coupling between the turbo and exhaust pipe flange. So I took the tail apart and slid the ring in. The last bolt was the inner bolt for the hanger at the back of the turbo (not the one behind that that supports the exhaust flange). It took me hours to get it in. finally got it by loosening everything more, and taking the bracket loose from the manifold. The inside nut on the bracket to the manifold is a bugger too. I robbed a allen capscrew from the EGR to bolt the turbo to the football eliminator pipe. That kept me going without having to run out and find a bolt to buy. Since I forgot the EGR eliminator kit, I got a 3/4 copper sweat coupling, sawed through it lengthwise, unwrapped it and flattened it, then held it to the ERG nipple on the football eliminator pipe while I scribed a mark. Oh, I annealed it as described on here a few months ago. Then I cut out the circle with tinsnips, tapped around the edges holding it to the manifold nipple and then clamped it on. One half of the EGR eliminated. I went out and bought a bolt, then used the remaining chunk of copper to use as a gasket/plate under the EGR. That blocked the other side of the EGR, but still left the EGR hanging. Not pretty, but functional until I get the plate attached to the engine on the next trip. Changed the serpentine belt, and took it for a road test. Lots of smoke at startup, and heavy smoking at low speeds. At one stoplight, smoke was coming out from under the hood and being drawn into the interior ventilation. got to to stoplight highways and that gave me a chance to spool up the turbo several times, with much smoke. then onto the interstate, laying down a smokescreen that would make a destroyer skipper proud. Out on the interstate for 5 miles cleaned out a lot. Up to 80. Then took an exit, got off drove around and then back on with it floored. That laid a really good smokescreen down. Had it close to 80 at the top of the ramp. That was the last smoke I saw. drove back along stoplight highway. I could not see any smoke when i floored it on takeoff. After I got back, there was no oil dripping and everything seemed good, so I packed up the tools and started to get ready for the trip home. (1987 300SDL) Oil in compressor is from intake not turbo. Did you verify its not the supply line? -- please excuse the delay in response, I had to wait for the tape to rewind on my commodore 64. Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? Does anyone have experience with buying a turbo cartridge? Does anyone know what turbo is on an 87 SDL? Garret or KKK? It looks like some things are accessible from above, and some from below. What is the best method for getting the turbo out? ***prior post*** I think I am on to something. With the crossover off, the insides are abnormally clean. Like a complete M1 wash. No gunk, no black, except where oil has pooled a little. Started up the engine. when I revved up the engine enough so that the turbo started, and held it there, there was oil climbing up the throat of the turbo and running counterclockwise to the high side of the throat. if I ran the RPM up to 3k or so, then the air blew away the oil. It is not enough to get a bath. I am suspecting that what I am seeing is enough to wash the crossover/intake clean, smoke, especially on startup, and washdown the port side of the engine through the crossover pipe not being sealed well. My guess is that any visible oil is too much oil. Is this correct? The turbo seal failures I have heard of have been catastrophic. This is not. But I suppose it could go catastrophic at any time. Any body got a cheap source for a turbo cartridge? Les Blumner had a source that was something like $80. I have seen $250. _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
But is that what caused it? Sealant plugging the oil passage? Randy On 16/03/2012 5:40 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: Starved the #2 main and #2 crankpin of oil, scored the crank, and it broke on the highway doing 60, trashed the engine. Peter On Mar 16, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: So, what happened to your brother's 300D? RTV sealant got sucked in and plugged an oil passage??? Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Big blob of orange silicone sealant in the oil passage at the spun bearing. Peter On Mar 17, 2012, at 2:06 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: But is that what caused it? Sealant plugging the oil passage? Randy On 16/03/2012 5:40 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: Starved the #2 main and #2 crankpin of oil, scored the crank, and it broke on the highway doing 60, trashed the engine. Peter On Mar 16, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: So, what happened to your brother's 300D? RTV sealant got sucked in and plugged an oil passage??? Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
So, what happened to your brother's 300D? RTV sealant got sucked in and plugged an oil passage??? Randy On 15/03/2012 6:16 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: At least it was just the turbo, and not the #2 main oil passage like it was on my brother's 75 300D. Peter On Mar 15, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Once I got the turbo loose, there was no way it was coming out on top or from underneath. So you have to take the football (trap oxidizer) elimination pipe and the EGR out anyway. It would have been a lot easier to do that in the first place. Oil leak found: the oil supply pipe was loose on the turbo. Could spin the 6mm allen wrench stem with my fingers. Not even finger tight. the upper drain fitting was also loose. the bottom drain fitting to the block was snug, but not tight. May have been a used or rebuilt turbo. I found evidence such as way too long bolts in the mounting. I found a partial cause of death. the oil supply was maybe 2/3 obstructed with red RTV crap. A sure sign someone was in there buggering things up (english technical term for Fred) Sure is strange that there are no pdfs for this job on the cd or online. It is not uncommon. 1987 300SDL Oil feed line is on top, under the EGR assembly. You will probably need to also remove the 10 mm screw that holds the line to the bracket, and possibly the fitting on the block as well. Not a big deal. The exhaust is connected via some accordioned stainless parts with strap clamps, easy to manage. I'm guessing your oil consumption will go way down with a new one. Peter On Mar 12, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Is there any way to check the drain without taking the drain or the turbo off? My guess is not. I can't imagine the drain getting plugged when M1 is in the engine. I am inclined to order a turbo cartridge and just change it. If the drain is plugged, I could clean and replace and keep the cartridge on a shelf. Where does the oil feed line come in? What other parts are needed or should be replaced when replacing the turbo? Is it necessary to take off the exhaust manifold to take out the turbo? The * forum had a post where someone said taking off the cranckase vent hose decreased pressure in the crankcase and stopped oil leaking into the turbo. Sounds fishy to me on a 603. Since it is now functional, I am inclined to leave it alone until I have all parts in hand. If I tear into it, it might be weeks or months until it gets finished because of the distance involved. Parts needed: 2 or more drain tube o-rings 2 oil drain gaskets EGR block kit. (have that at home but forgot to bring it.) Whatever it takes to insure the oil feed is reliable...(? gaskets? hose? new steel line?) Turbo cartridge kit. (should include necessary parts to change) It is wasting probably 3-4 quarts of oil a week currently. I need to either order parts in the morning or postpone the mess until another trip. No trip is on the horizon until November. 1987 300SDL is the subject. Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? ...or a plugged drain line. If you plug the drain and feed it oil under pressure, the oil will get into the turbine/compressor housings. I'm pretty sure they don't have contact seals on the shaft, but if the bearings wore out and had radial slop the labyrinth seals would get chewed too and might let oil into the compressor section. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Starved the #2 main and #2 crankpin of oil, scored the crank, and it broke on the highway doing 60, trashed the engine. Peter On Mar 16, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: So, what happened to your brother's 300D? RTV sealant got sucked in and plugged an oil passage??? Randy On 15/03/2012 6:16 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: At least it was just the turbo, and not the #2 main oil passage like it was on my brother's 75 300D. Peter On Mar 15, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Once I got the turbo loose, there was no way it was coming out on top or from underneath. So you have to take the football (trap oxidizer) elimination pipe and the EGR out anyway. It would have been a lot easier to do that in the first place. Oil leak found: the oil supply pipe was loose on the turbo. Could spin the 6mm allen wrench stem with my fingers. Not even finger tight. the upper drain fitting was also loose. the bottom drain fitting to the block was snug, but not tight. May have been a used or rebuilt turbo. I found evidence such as way too long bolts in the mounting. I found a partial cause of death. the oil supply was maybe 2/3 obstructed with red RTV crap. A sure sign someone was in there buggering things up (english technical term for Fred) Sure is strange that there are no pdfs for this job on the cd or online. It is not uncommon. 1987 300SDL Oil feed line is on top, under the EGR assembly. You will probably need to also remove the 10 mm screw that holds the line to the bracket, and possibly the fitting on the block as well. Not a big deal. The exhaust is connected via some accordioned stainless parts with strap clamps, easy to manage. I'm guessing your oil consumption will go way down with a new one. Peter On Mar 12, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Is there any way to check the drain without taking the drain or the turbo off? My guess is not. I can't imagine the drain getting plugged when M1 is in the engine. I am inclined to order a turbo cartridge and just change it. If the drain is plugged, I could clean and replace and keep the cartridge on a shelf. Where does the oil feed line come in? What other parts are needed or should be replaced when replacing the turbo? Is it necessary to take off the exhaust manifold to take out the turbo? The * forum had a post where someone said taking off the cranckase vent hose decreased pressure in the crankcase and stopped oil leaking into the turbo. Sounds fishy to me on a 603. Since it is now functional, I am inclined to leave it alone until I have all parts in hand. If I tear into it, it might be weeks or months until it gets finished because of the distance involved. Parts needed: 2 or more drain tube o-rings 2 oil drain gaskets EGR block kit. (have that at home but forgot to bring it.) Whatever it takes to insure the oil feed is reliable...(? gaskets? hose? new steel line?) Turbo cartridge kit. (should include necessary parts to change) It is wasting probably 3-4 quarts of oil a week currently. I need to either order parts in the morning or postpone the mess until another trip. No trip is on the horizon until November. 1987 300SDL is the subject. Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? ...or a plugged drain line. If you plug the drain and feed it oil under pressure, the oil will get into the turbine/ compressor housings. I'm pretty sure they don't have contact seals on the shaft, but if the bearings wore out and had radial slop the labyrinth seals would get chewed too and might let oil into the compressor section. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
How would you get oil in the compressor if the oil feed was leaking? It accounts for leaking outside the turbo, but not oil inside the turbo. Anyhow, I had it just about done by noon, then found a tin ring on the ground. Figured out it must have been inside the flex coupling between the turbo and exhaust pipe flange. So I took the tail apart and slid the ring in. The last bolt was the inner bolt for the hanger at the back of the turbo (not the one behind that that supports the exhaust flange). It took me hours to get it in. finally got it by loosening everything more, and taking the bracket loose from the manifold. The inside nut on the bracket to the manifold is a bugger too. I robbed a allen capscrew from the EGR to bolt the turbo to the football eliminator pipe. That kept me going without having to run out and find a bolt to buy. Since I forgot the EGR eliminator kit, I got a 3/4 copper sweat coupling, sawed through it lengthwise, unwrapped it and flattened it, then held it to the ERG nipple on the football eliminator pipe while I scribed a mark. Oh, I annealed it as described on here a few months ago. Then I cut out the circle with tinsnips, tapped around the edges holding it to the manifold nipple and then clamped it on. One half of the EGR eliminated. I went out and bought a bolt, then used the remaining chunk of copper to use as a gasket/plate under the EGR. That blocked the other side of the EGR, but still left the EGR hanging. Not pretty, but functional until I get the plate attached to the engine on the next trip. Changed the serpentine belt, and took it for a road test. Lots of smoke at startup, and heavy smoking at low speeds. At one stoplight, smoke was coming out from under the hood and being drawn into the interior ventilation. got to to stoplight highways and that gave me a chance to spool up the turbo several times, with much smoke. then onto the interstate, laying down a smokescreen that would make a destroyer skipper proud. Out on the interstate for 5 miles cleaned out a lot. Up to 80. Then took an exit, got off drove around and then back on with it floored. That laid a really good smokescreen down. Had it close to 80 at the top of the ramp. That was the last smoke I saw. drove back along stoplight highway. I could not see any smoke when i floored it on takeoff. After I got back, there was no oil dripping and everything seemed good, so I packed up the tools and started to get ready for the trip home. (1987 300SDL) Oil in compressor is from intake not turbo. Did you verify its not the supply line? -- please excuse the delay in response, I had to wait for the tape to rewind on my commodore 64. Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? Does anyone have experience with buying a turbo cartridge? Does anyone know what turbo is on an 87 SDL? Garret or KKK? It looks like some things are accessible from above, and some from below. What is the best method for getting the turbo out? ***prior post*** I think I am on to something. With the crossover off, the insides are abnormally clean. Like a complete M1 wash. No gunk, no black, except where oil has pooled a little. Started up the engine. when I revved up the engine enough so that the turbo started, and held it there, there was oil climbing up the throat of the turbo and running counterclockwise to the high side of the throat. if I ran the RPM up to 3k or so, then the air blew away the oil. It is not enough to get a bath. I am suspecting that what I am seeing is enough to wash the crossover/intake clean, smoke, especially on startup, and washdown the port side of the engine through the crossover pipe not being sealed well. My guess is that any visible oil is too much oil. Is this correct? The turbo seal failures I have heard of have been catastrophic. This is not. But I suppose it could go catastrophic at any time. Any body got a cheap source for a turbo cartridge? Les Blumner had a source that was something like $80. I have seen $250. _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Oh the trap oxidizer replacement pipe = football replacement. :-) On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 11:46 PM, John Freer mbfo...@gmail.com wrote: Actually, only the 86 West coast 603's had the football trap oxidizer. All 87's had them. John Sent from my iPad On Mar 14, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: This is a 603, not a 617. All US 603s had a football smog crap over the top of the exhaust manifold. This caused problems, and led to an extended warranty, where the stealer would replace the football with a pipe, and replace the trashed turbo if the football was not replaced before it trashed the turbo. Actually, Andrew's 85 Collyfawnia TD had a football on the 617. On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 20:56:05 -0600 Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Once I got the turbo loose, there was no way it was coming out on top or from underneath. So you have to take the football (trap oxidizer) elimination pipe and the EGR out anyway. It would have been a lot easier to do that in the first place. Oil leak found: the oil supply pipe was loose on the turbo. Could spin the 6mm allen wrench stem with my fingers. Not even finger tight. the upper drain fitting was also loose. the bottom drain fitting to the block was snug, but not tight. May have been a used or rebuilt turbo. I found evidence such as way too long bolts in the mounting. I found a partial cause of death. the oil supply was maybe 2/3 obstructed with red RTV crap. A sure sign someone was in there buggering things up (english technical term for Fred) Sure is strange that there are no pdfs for this job on the cd or online. It is not uncommon. 1987 300SDL Oil feed line is on top, under the EGR assembly. You will probably need to also remove the 10 mm screw that holds the line to the bracket, and possibly the fitting on the block as well. Not a big deal. The exhaust is connected via some accordioned stainless parts with strap clamps, easy to manage. I'm guessing your oil consumption will go way down with a new one. Peter On Mar 12, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Is there any way to check the drain without taking the drain or the turbo off? My guess is not. I can't imagine the drain getting plugged when M1 is in the engine. I am inclined to order a turbo cartridge and just change it. If the drain is plugged, I could clean and replace and keep the cartridge on a shelf. Where does the oil feed line come in? What other parts are needed or should be replaced when replacing the turbo? Is it necessary to take off the exhaust manifold to take out the turbo? The * forum had a post where someone said taking off the cranckase vent hose decreased pressure in the crankcase and stopped oil leaking into the turbo. Sounds fishy to me on a 603. Since it is now functional, I am inclined to leave it alone until I have all parts in hand. If I tear into it, it might be weeks or months until it gets finished because of the distance involved. Parts needed: 2 or more drain tube o-rings 2 oil drain gaskets EGR block kit. (have that at home but forgot to bring it.) Whatever it takes to insure the oil feed is reliable...(? gaskets? hose? new steel line?) Turbo cartridge kit. (should include necessary parts to change) It is wasting probably 3-4 quarts of oil a week currently. I need to either order parts in the morning or postpone the mess until another trip. No trip is on the horizon until November. 1987 300SDL is the subject. Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? ...or a plugged drain line. If you plug the drain and feed it oil under pressure, the oil will get into the turbine/compressor housings. I'm pretty sure they don't have contact seals on the shaft, but if the bearings wore out and had radial slop the labyrinth seals would get chewed too and might let oil into the compressor section. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Was the RTV clogging due to use somewhere else, or locally? Getting a complete unit to replace the dead certainly was the right call. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
At least it was just the turbo, and not the #2 main oil passage like it was on my brother's 75 300D. Peter On Mar 15, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Once I got the turbo loose, there was no way it was coming out on top or from underneath. So you have to take the football (trap oxidizer) elimination pipe and the EGR out anyway. It would have been a lot easier to do that in the first place. Oil leak found: the oil supply pipe was loose on the turbo. Could spin the 6mm allen wrench stem with my fingers. Not even finger tight. the upper drain fitting was also loose. the bottom drain fitting to the block was snug, but not tight. May have been a used or rebuilt turbo. I found evidence such as way too long bolts in the mounting. I found a partial cause of death. the oil supply was maybe 2/3 obstructed with red RTV crap. A sure sign someone was in there buggering things up (english technical term for Fred) Sure is strange that there are no pdfs for this job on the cd or online. It is not uncommon. 1987 300SDL Oil feed line is on top, under the EGR assembly. You will probably need to also remove the 10 mm screw that holds the line to the bracket, and possibly the fitting on the block as well. Not a big deal. The exhaust is connected via some accordioned stainless parts with strap clamps, easy to manage. I'm guessing your oil consumption will go way down with a new one. Peter On Mar 12, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Is there any way to check the drain without taking the drain or the turbo off? My guess is not. I can't imagine the drain getting plugged when M1 is in the engine. I am inclined to order a turbo cartridge and just change it. If the drain is plugged, I could clean and replace and keep the cartridge on a shelf. Where does the oil feed line come in? What other parts are needed or should be replaced when replacing the turbo? Is it necessary to take off the exhaust manifold to take out the turbo? The * forum had a post where someone said taking off the cranckase vent hose decreased pressure in the crankcase and stopped oil leaking into the turbo. Sounds fishy to me on a 603. Since it is now functional, I am inclined to leave it alone until I have all parts in hand. If I tear into it, it might be weeks or months until it gets finished because of the distance involved. Parts needed: 2 or more drain tube o-rings 2 oil drain gaskets EGR block kit. (have that at home but forgot to bring it.) Whatever it takes to insure the oil feed is reliable...(? gaskets? hose? new steel line?) Turbo cartridge kit. (should include necessary parts to change) It is wasting probably 3-4 quarts of oil a week currently. I need to either order parts in the morning or postpone the mess until another trip. No trip is on the horizon until November. 1987 300SDL is the subject. Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? ...or a plugged drain line. If you plug the drain and feed it oil under pressure, the oil will get into the turbine/compressor housings. I'm pretty sure they don't have contact seals on the shaft, but if the bearings wore out and had radial slop the labyrinth seals would get chewed too and might let oil into the compressor section. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
on the gasket for the supply line. glued down to the turbo only, with great excess. Fortunately all my other 603 were apparently un- messed with. un-buggered up. Will post more observations when I actually pull it out of the car. I have to take loose one bracket hung on the exhaust manifold. I quit to try to track down the buggered up buggering UPS (UFUPS) They got the turbo on the truck at 6 am this morning for delivery. they usually don't show here until about 5 PM. the moron took it back to the shop with him. Of course there is no way to phone them or to even find the address where the trucks originate from. The address on Q's invoice is absolutely right. The morons are just too lazy to deliver and too arrogant to let you talk to the local shed. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Check out the attachment for some factory procedures on turbochargers. On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 5:28 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: on the gasket for the supply line. glued down to the turbo only, with great excess. Fortunately all my other 603 were apparently un- messed with. un-buggered up. Will post more observations when I actually pull it out of the car. I have to take loose one bracket hung on the exhaust manifold. I quit to try to track down the buggered up buggering UPS (UFUPS) They got the turbo on the truck at 6 am this morning for delivery. they usually don't show here until about 5 PM. the moron took it back to the shop with him. Of course there is no way to phone them or to even find the address where the trucks originate from. The address on Q's invoice is absolutely right. The morons are just too lazy to deliver and too arrogant to let you talk to the local shed. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 70007.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 921698 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20120315/c446ac0e/attachment.pdf ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
You should not need to order parts more than once. It is a relatively straightforward job, but it does take some time. The exhaust parts tend to come loose without too much trouble. You will need (or find it easier) to get under the car to disconnect the exhaust downpipe. It may also help to remove the exhaust support near the transmission to give you more room to work with. Well, here is a case in point: Got the turbo in, unpacked it and looked it over. There are 3 studs to mount it to the exhaust, and the whole thing looks very nice. Came with metal gasket for the exhaust. the old one had no gasket. Also has new gaskets for the oil supplu and the oil drain. Very good! The only thing is, that the old turbo has 4 studs to mount it to the football eliminator. Yup! I get a factory new short block completely missing one head bolt hole; and I get a turbo with a missing stud. Yes, I could try to pull a stud from the old turbo, and likely it would twist off because I don't have a flame wrench. I could drive around trying to find someone who has a stud of the right thread and dimensions (riiight!), I could order one from Q, or I could go to the stealer, have them order the wrong part, pay $25 extra for a special order, then have to take it back etc. etc. Murphy is alive and well. In this case, I will drive across town, buy an 8mm capscrew and be back in business with in 60 to 90 minutes. But often I have to order something more from Q, and that generally takes a week. I ended up having to take the muffler hangers off at the back to get the pipes apart. the muffler hangers look bad., especially the one under the pass compartment. More parts to order. I have not checked out all the other stuff to see if there are other things I may need before the job is finished. It got too dark tonight to get that done too. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Oil in compressor is from intake not turbo. Did you verify its not the supply line? -- please excuse the delay in response, I had to wait for the tape to rewind on my commodore 64. Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? Does anyone have experience with buying a turbo cartridge? Does anyone know what turbo is on an 87 SDL? Garret or KKK? It looks like some things are accessible from above, and some from below. What is the best method for getting the turbo out? ***prior post*** I think I am on to something. With the crossover off, the insides are abnormally clean. Like a complete M1 wash. No gunk, no black, except where oil has pooled a little. Started up the engine. when I revved up the engine enough so that the turbo started, and held it there, there was oil climbing up the throat of the turbo and running counterclockwise to the high side of the throat. if I ran the RPM up to 3k or so, then the air blew away the oil. It is not enough to get a bath. I am suspecting that what I am seeing is enough to wash the crossover/intake clean, smoke, especially on startup, and washdown the port side of the engine through the crossover pipe not being sealed well. My guess is that any visible oil is too much oil. Is this correct? The turbo seal failures I have heard of have been catastrophic. This is not. But I suppose it could go catastrophic at any time. Any body got a cheap source for a turbo cartridge? Les Blumner had a source that was something like $80. I have seen $250. _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
I have decided I'm using part of my bonus this year to buy a rebuilt turbo for my 87 300D -- same symptoms (blue smoke on startup, excessive oil consumption (worse on the highway) and definitely lethargic turbo response when cold, all the same problems I had with the 85 Volvo TD when it's turbo went south. Oil coming out the front of the turbo (as in still getting oil blown into the intake (with the crankase line removed) can ONLY be the front seal on the turbo. Easy to check, just verify that the blowby isn't bad enough to use that much oil. Mine has more than I would like, but not enough to lose a quart of oil in 500 miles! Usually, there is oil leaking into the turbine side as well, and that burns in the exhaust making blue smoke. Odometer just rolled over to 300,000 this week, and is at least 60,000 miles short of true milage, maybe 70,000. I'm not upset the trubo has gone south at nearly 400,000 miles. Seems to have good compression, too, although I'm not too sure about the head replacement done before I got the car 5 years ago. Peter On Mar 15, 2012, at 8:49 PM, Rolf wrote: Oil in compressor is from intake not turbo. Did you verify its not the supply line? -- please excuse the delay in response, I had to wait for the tape to rewind on my commodore 64. Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? Does anyone have experience with buying a turbo cartridge? Does anyone know what turbo is on an 87 SDL? Garret or KKK? It looks like some things are accessible from above, and some from below. What is the best method for getting the turbo out? ***prior post*** I think I am on to something. With the crossover off, the insides are abnormally clean. Like a complete M1 wash. No gunk, no black, except where oil has pooled a little. Started up the engine. when I revved up the engine enough so that the turbo started, and held it there, there was oil climbing up the throat of the turbo and running counterclockwise to the high side of the throat. if I ran the RPM up to 3k or so, then the air blew away the oil. It is not enough to get a bath. I am suspecting that what I am seeing is enough to wash the crossover/intake clean, smoke, especially on startup, and washdown the port side of the engine through the crossover pipe not being sealed well. My guess is that any visible oil is too much oil. Is this correct? The turbo seal failures I have heard of have been catastrophic. This is not. But I suppose it could go catastrophic at any time. Any body got a cheap source for a turbo cartridge? Les Blumner had a source that was something like $80. I have seen $250. _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
That seems like a reasonable life expectancy, especially when you don't know what the PO did. In spite of the fact that my turbo came in minus a stud, I'd still getting your turbo from Rusty. The fact that he has had ZERO returns over a lot of years tells me they are a good rebuild. I took cell phone pictures of the red goop all over the oil inlet of my old one. Some year when I get the photos off my cell phone I will post them. I have decided I'm using part of my bonus this year to buy a rebuilt turbo for my 87 300D -- same symptoms (blue smoke on startup, excessive oil consumption (worse on the highway) and definitely lethargic turbo response when cold, all the same problems I had with the 85 Volvo TD when it's turbo went south. Oil coming out the front of the turbo (as in still getting oil blown into the intake (with the crankase line removed) can ONLY be the front seal on the turbo. Easy to check, just verify that the blowby isn't bad enough to use that much oil. Mine has more than I would like, but not enough to lose a quart of oil in 500 miles! Usually, there is oil leaking into the turbine side as well, and that burns in the exhaust making blue smoke. Odometer just rolled over to 300,000 this week, and is at least 60,000 miles short of true milage, maybe 70,000. I'm not upset the trubo has gone south at nearly 400,000 miles. Seems to have good compression, too, although I'm not too sure about the head replacement done before I got the car 5 years ago. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
It seems to me that taking off the EGR valve and the football eliminator pipe would make access much easier. Are these necessary for access, or just a convenience for getting the turbo out? I am going to start on this tomorrow. Oil feed line is on top, under the EGR assembly. You will probably need to also remove the 10 mm screw that holds the line to the bracket, and possibly the fitting on the block as well. Not a big deal. The exhaust is connected via some accordioned stainless parts with strap clamps, easy to manage. I'm guessing your oil consumption will go way down with a new one. Peter On Mar 12, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Is there any way to check the drain without taking the drain or the turbo off? My guess is not. I can't imagine the drain getting plugged when M1 is in the engine. I am inclined to order a turbo cartridge and just change it. If the drain is plugged, I could clean and replace and keep the cartridge on a shelf. Where does the oil feed line come in? What other parts are needed or should be replaced when replacing the turbo? Is it necessary to take off the exhaust manifold to take out the turbo? The * forum had a post where someone said taking off the cranckase vent hose decreased pressure in the crankcase and stopped oil leaking into the turbo. Sounds fishy to me on a 603. Since it is now functional, I am inclined to leave it alone until I have all parts in hand. If I tear into it, it might be weeks or months until it gets finished because of the distance involved. Parts needed: 2 or more drain tube o-rings 2 oil drain gaskets EGR block kit. (have that at home but forgot to bring it.) Whatever it takes to insure the oil feed is reliable...(? gaskets? hose? new steel line?) Turbo cartridge kit. (should include necessary parts to change) It is wasting probably 3-4 quarts of oil a week currently. I need to either order parts in the morning or postpone the mess until another trip. No trip is on the horizon until November. 1987 300SDL is the subject. Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? ...or a plugged drain line. If you plug the drain and feed it oil under pressure, the oil will get into the turbine/compressor housings. I'm pretty sure they don't have contact seals on the shaft, but if the bearings wore out and had radial slop the labyrinth seals would get chewed too and might let oil into the compressor section. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
What is the football eliminator pipe? You don't have to separate the EGR valve from the pipe it bolts to. There are big fat o-rings that keep all those intake pipes together. You probably won't even need to replace them unless they were butchered in the past. But I strongly suggest not bolting anything up on reassembly until you get all the parts back in place first. i.e. Don't bolt parts together until you have the turbo oil drain pipe in place. Its such a PITA to undo everything just to fit something small like that. It may help to put the individual bolts and nuts into zip log backs with a post it note inside the bag so you can keep track of individual parts and what goes where in case you don't get back to reassembly for a few weeks... On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: It seems to me that taking off the EGR valve and the football eliminator pipe would make access much easier. Are these necessary for access, or just a convenience for getting the turbo out? I am going to start on this tomorrow. Oil feed line is on top, under the EGR assembly. You will probably need to also remove the 10 mm screw that holds the line to the bracket, and possibly the fitting on the block as well. Not a big deal. The exhaust is connected via some accordioned stainless parts with strap clamps, easy to manage. I'm guessing your oil consumption will go way down with a new one. Peter On Mar 12, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Is there any way to check the drain without taking the drain or the turbo off? My guess is not. I can't imagine the drain getting plugged when M1 is in the engine. I am inclined to order a turbo cartridge and just change it. If the drain is plugged, I could clean and replace and keep the cartridge on a shelf. Where does the oil feed line come in? What other parts are needed or should be replaced when replacing the turbo? Is it necessary to take off the exhaust manifold to take out the turbo? The * forum had a post where someone said taking off the cranckase vent hose decreased pressure in the crankcase and stopped oil leaking into the turbo. Sounds fishy to me on a 603. Since it is now functional, I am inclined to leave it alone until I have all parts in hand. If I tear into it, it might be weeks or months until it gets finished because of the distance involved. Parts needed: 2 or more drain tube o-rings 2 oil drain gaskets EGR block kit. (have that at home but forgot to bring it.) Whatever it takes to insure the oil feed is reliable...(? gaskets? hose? new steel line?) Turbo cartridge kit. (should include necessary parts to change) It is wasting probably 3-4 quarts of oil a week currently. I need to either order parts in the morning or postpone the mess until another trip. No trip is on the horizon until November. 1987 300SDL is the subject. Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? ...or a plugged drain line. If you plug the drain and feed it oil under pressure, the oil will get into the turbine/compressor housings. I'm pretty sure they don't have contact seals on the shaft, but if the bearings wore out and had radial slop the labyrinth seals would get chewed too and might let oil into the compressor section. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 20:56:05 -0600 Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote: It may help to put the individual bolts and nuts into zip log backs with a post it note inside the bag so you can keep track of individual parts and what goes where in case you don't get back to reassembly for a few weeks... Or take pictures with a digital camera Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
It may help to put the individual bolts and nuts into zip log backs with a post it note inside the bag so you can keep track of individual parts and what goes where in case you don't get back to reassembly for a few weeks... Or take pictures with a digital camera Or both :-) Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
This is a 603, not a 617. All US 603s had a football smog crap over the top of the exhaust manifold. This caused problems, and led to an extended warranty, where the stealer would replace the football with a pipe, and replace the trashed turbo if the football was not replaced before it trashed the turbo. Actually, Andrew's 85 Collyfawnia TD had a football on the 617. On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 20:56:05 -0600 Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Actually, only the 86 West coast 603's had the football trap oxidizer. All 87's had them. John Sent from my iPad On Mar 14, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: This is a 603, not a 617. All US 603s had a football smog crap over the top of the exhaust manifold. This caused problems, and led to an extended warranty, where the stealer would replace the football with a pipe, and replace the trashed turbo if the football was not replaced before it trashed the turbo. Actually, Andrew's 85 Collyfawnia TD had a football on the 617. On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 20:56:05 -0600 Brian Toscano brian.tosc...@gmail.com wrote: ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
The turbo flunked the test with the breather (egr) disconnected and the oil filler cap loose. [the cam throws quite a bit of oil with the cap off at idle. a whole lot at higher rpm.] Still roughly the same amount of oil coming up the throat of the turbo and being blown out in wisps I decided that $300 for a cartridge, and still having to fiddle with wastegate adjustment, and possibly running out of time vs buying a complete rebuilt from Q and not having to check or adjust anything is worth the price differential in this case. Plus the turbo from Q has a 2 yr warranty. He says he has never had one come back. that is good too. Had I found the elusive $79 cartridge (gotta be chinee) I might have tried one. but at $300, a known with time savings is good in this case. Once again, Mr. Q saves an agent of Herr Daimler's secret service group. Parts should be in thurs pm. I have Thursday night and fri am to git er done. 87 300SDL Oil feed line is on top, under the EGR assembly. You will probably need to also remove the 10 mm screw that holds the line to the bracket, and possibly the fitting on the block as well. Not a big deal. The exhaust is connected via some accordioned stainless parts with strap clamps, easy to manage. I'm guessing your oil consumption will go way down with a new one. Peter On Mar 12, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Is there any way to check the drain without taking the drain or the turbo off? My guess is not. I can't imagine the drain getting plugged when M1 is in the engine. I am inclined to order a turbo cartridge and just change it. If the drain is plugged, I could clean and replace and keep the cartridge on a shelf. Where does the oil feed line come in? What other parts are needed or should be replaced when replacing the turbo? Is it necessary to take off the exhaust manifold to take out the turbo? The * forum had a post where someone said taking off the cranckase vent hose decreased pressure in the crankcase and stopped oil leaking into the turbo. Sounds fishy to me on a 603. Since it is now functional, I am inclined to leave it alone until I have all parts in hand. If I tear into it, it might be weeks or months until it gets finished because of the distance involved. Parts needed: 2 or more drain tube o-rings 2 oil drain gaskets EGR block kit. (have that at home but forgot to bring it.) Whatever it takes to insure the oil feed is reliable...(? gaskets? hose? new steel line?) Turbo cartridge kit. (should include necessary parts to change) It is wasting probably 3-4 quarts of oil a week currently. I need to either order parts in the morning or postpone the mess until another trip. No trip is on the horizon until November. 1987 300SDL is the subject. Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? ...or a plugged drain line. If you plug the drain and feed it oil under pressure, the oil will get into the turbine/compressor housings. I'm pretty sure they don't have contact seals on the shaft, but if the bearings wore out and had radial slop the labyrinth seals would get chewed too and might let oil into the compressor section. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Can anyone find the pdf for removing a turbo in a SDL? (or a OM603 in a 300D or 300TD for that matter) Dave M's online version does not have anything about the turbo. Nor did his notes. I think he has notes in the 124 section. I will have to look there. I found a really good how to from UK for rebuilding a garrett. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alexis.g/pics/Turbo%20recon.pdf If I had time, that would be a good option. But i'd have to get the turbo out, order parts, wait, make the first attempt, order more parts, wait, then put it all back together. Likely a two week process. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
You should not need to order parts more than once. It is a relatively straightforward job, but it does take some time. The exhaust parts tend to come loose without too much trouble. You will need (or find it easier) to get under the car to disconnect the exhaust downpipe. It may also help to remove the exhaust support near the transmission to give you more room to work with. On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: The turbo flunked the test with the breather (egr) disconnected and the oil filler cap loose. [the cam throws quite a bit of oil with the cap off at idle. a whole lot at higher rpm.] Still roughly the same amount of oil coming up the throat of the turbo and being blown out in wisps I decided that $300 for a cartridge, and still having to fiddle with wastegate adjustment, and possibly running out of time vs buying a complete rebuilt from Q and not having to check or adjust anything is worth the price differential in this case. Plus the turbo from Q has a 2 yr warranty. He says he has never had one come back. that is good too. Had I found the elusive $79 cartridge (gotta be chinee) I might have tried one. but at $300, a known with time savings is good in this case. Once again, Mr. Q saves an agent of Herr Daimler's secret service group. Parts should be in thurs pm. I have Thursday night and fri am to git er done. 87 300SDL Oil feed line is on top, under the EGR assembly. You will probably need to also remove the 10 mm screw that holds the line to the bracket, and possibly the fitting on the block as well. Not a big deal. The exhaust is connected via some accordioned stainless parts with strap clamps, easy to manage. I'm guessing your oil consumption will go way down with a new one. Peter On Mar 12, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Is there any way to check the drain without taking the drain or the turbo off? My guess is not. I can't imagine the drain getting plugged when M1 is in the engine. I am inclined to order a turbo cartridge and just change it. If the drain is plugged, I could clean and replace and keep the cartridge on a shelf. Where does the oil feed line come in? What other parts are needed or should be replaced when replacing the turbo? Is it necessary to take off the exhaust manifold to take out the turbo? The * forum had a post where someone said taking off the cranckase vent hose decreased pressure in the crankcase and stopped oil leaking into the turbo. Sounds fishy to me on a 603. Since it is now functional, I am inclined to leave it alone until I have all parts in hand. If I tear into it, it might be weeks or months until it gets finished because of the distance involved. Parts needed: 2 or more drain tube o-rings 2 oil drain gaskets EGR block kit. (have that at home but forgot to bring it.) Whatever it takes to insure the oil feed is reliable...(? gaskets? hose? new steel line?) Turbo cartridge kit. (should include necessary parts to change) It is wasting probably 3-4 quarts of oil a week currently. I need to either order parts in the morning or postpone the mess until another trip. No trip is on the horizon until November. 1987 300SDL is the subject. Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? ...or a plugged drain line. If you plug the drain and feed it oil under pressure, the oil will get into the turbine/compressor housings. I'm pretty sure they don't have contact seals on the shaft, but if the bearings wore out and had radial slop the labyrinth seals would get chewed too and might let oil into the compressor section. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
THanks for the info. It is not the parts for the job, that require the second wait. It is stuff that is not in the kit or things that you find when you are in there that cause the second order. You should not need to order parts more than once. It is a relatively straightforward job, but it does take some time. The exhaust parts tend to come loose without too much trouble. You will need (or find it easier) to get under the car to disconnect the exhaust downpipe. It may also help to remove the exhaust support near the transmission to give you more room to work with. On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: The turbo flunked the test with the breather (egr) disconnected and the oil filler cap loose. [the cam throws quite a bit of oil with the cap off at idle. a whole lot at higher rpm.] Still roughly the same amount of oil coming up the throat of the turbo and being blown out in wisps I decided that $300 for a cartridge, and still having to fiddle with wastegate adjustment, and possibly running out of time vs buying a complete rebuilt from Q and not having to check or adjust anything is worth the price differential in this case. Plus the turbo from Q has a 2 yr warranty. He says he has never had one come back. that is good too. Had I found the elusive $79 cartridge (gotta be chinee) I might have tried one. but at $300, a known with time savings is good in this case. Once again, Mr. Q saves an agent of Herr Daimler's secret service group. Parts should be in thurs pm. I have Thursday night and fri am to git er done. 87 300SDL Oil feed line is on top, under the EGR assembly. You will probably need to also remove the 10 mm screw that holds the line to the bracket, and possibly the fitting on the block as well. Not a big deal. The exhaust is connected via some accordioned stainless parts with strap clamps, easy to manage. I'm guessing your oil consumption will go way down with a new one. Peter On Mar 12, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Is there any way to check the drain without taking the drain or the turbo off? My guess is not. I can't imagine the drain getting plugged when M1 is in the engine. I am inclined to order a turbo cartridge and just change it. If the drain is plugged, I could clean and replace and keep the cartridge on a shelf. Where does the oil feed line come in? What other parts are needed or should be replaced when replacing the turbo? Is it necessary to take off the exhaust manifold to take out the turbo? The * forum had a post where someone said taking off the cranckase vent hose decreased pressure in the crankcase and stopped oil leaking into the turbo. Sounds fishy to me on a 603. Since it is now functional, I am inclined to leave it alone until I have all parts in hand. If I tear into it, it might be weeks or months until it gets finished because of the distance involved. Parts needed: 2 or more drain tube o-rings 2 oil drain gaskets EGR block kit. (have that at home but forgot to bring it.) Whatever it takes to insure the oil feed is reliable...(? gaskets? hose? new steel line?) Turbo cartridge kit. (should include necessary parts to change) It is wasting probably 3-4 quarts of oil a week currently. I need to either order parts in the morning or postpone the mess until another trip. No trip is on the horizon until November. 1987 300SDL is the subject. Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? ...or a plugged drain line. If you plug the drain and feed it oil under pressure, the oil will get into the turbine/compressor housings. I'm pretty sure they don't have contact seals on the shaft, but if the bearings wore out and had radial slop the labyrinth seals would get chewed too and might let oil into the compressor section. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Right, like if the bushings around the transmission are bad or you decide you want new studs, washers, or nuts for the exhaust, or one or both of the flex pipes or clamps appears to be in poor condition. I recall the job vividly because I had a KKK rebuilt and it wouldn't spool up. So I had to R/R the turbo a few times There really is nothing to the job, except patience and time. Because of all the parts and the tight fit, I recommend tightening all nuts and bolts AFTER the parts are put into place (I'm talking exhaust, oil lines, manifold, and T/O replacement pipe) Otherwise when you have to pull it off again... its a headache. The most expensive single part at the time was the metal flange gasket between the turbo and the exhaust manifold. On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: THanks for the info. It is not the parts for the job, that require the second wait. It is stuff that is not in the kit or things that you find when you are in there that cause the second order. You should not need to order parts more than once. It is a relatively straightforward job, but it does take some time. The exhaust parts tend to come loose without too much trouble. You will need (or find it easier) to get under the car to disconnect the exhaust downpipe. It may also help to remove the exhaust support near the transmission to give you more room to work with. On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: The turbo flunked the test with the breather (egr) disconnected and the oil filler cap loose. [the cam throws quite a bit of oil with the cap off at idle. a whole lot at higher rpm.] Still roughly the same amount of oil coming up the throat of the turbo and being blown out in wisps I decided that $300 for a cartridge, and still having to fiddle with wastegate adjustment, and possibly running out of time vs buying a complete rebuilt from Q and not having to check or adjust anything is worth the price differential in this case. Plus the turbo from Q has a 2 yr warranty. He says he has never had one come back. that is good too. Had I found the elusive $79 cartridge (gotta be chinee) I might have tried one. but at $300, a known with time savings is good in this case. Once again, Mr. Q saves an agent of Herr Daimler's secret service group. Parts should be in thurs pm. I have Thursday night and fri am to git er done. 87 300SDL Oil feed line is on top, under the EGR assembly. You will probably need to also remove the 10 mm screw that holds the line to the bracket, and possibly the fitting on the block as well. Not a big deal. The exhaust is connected via some accordioned stainless parts with strap clamps, easy to manage. I'm guessing your oil consumption will go way down with a new one. Peter On Mar 12, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Is there any way to check the drain without taking the drain or the turbo off? My guess is not. I can't imagine the drain getting plugged when M1 is in the engine. I am inclined to order a turbo cartridge and just change it. If the drain is plugged, I could clean and replace and keep the cartridge on a shelf. Where does the oil feed line come in? What other parts are needed or should be replaced when replacing the turbo? Is it necessary to take off the exhaust manifold to take out the turbo? The * forum had a post where someone said taking off the cranckase vent hose decreased pressure in the crankcase and stopped oil leaking into the turbo. Sounds fishy to me on a 603. Since it is now functional, I am inclined to leave it alone until I have all parts in hand. If I tear into it, it might be weeks or months until it gets finished because of the distance involved. Parts needed: 2 or more drain tube o-rings 2 oil drain gaskets EGR block kit. (have that at home but forgot to bring it.) Whatever it takes to insure the oil feed is reliable...(? gaskets? hose? new steel line?) Turbo cartridge kit. (should include necessary parts to change) It is wasting probably 3-4 quarts of oil a week currently. I need to either order parts in the morning or postpone the mess until another trip. No trip is on the horizon until November. 1987 300SDL is the subject. Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? ...or a plugged drain line. If you plug the drain and feed it oil under pressure, the oil will get into the turbine/compressor housings. I'm pretty sure they don't have contact seals on the shaft, but if the bearings wore out and had radial slop the labyrinth seals would get chewed too and might let oil into the compressor section. ___
[MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? Does anyone have experience with buying a turbo cartridge? Does anyone know what turbo is on an 87 SDL? Garret or KKK? It looks like some things are accessible from above, and some from below. What is the best method for getting the turbo out? ***prior post*** I think I am on to something. With the crossover off, the insides are abnormally clean. Like a complete M1 wash. No gunk, no black, except where oil has pooled a little. Started up the engine. when I revved up the engine enough so that the turbo started, and held it there, there was oil climbing up the throat of the turbo and running counterclockwise to the high side of the throat. if I ran the RPM up to 3k or so, then the air blew away the oil. It is not enough to get a bath. I am suspecting that what I am seeing is enough to wash the crossover/intake clean, smoke, especially on startup, and washdown the port side of the engine through the crossover pipe not being sealed well. My guess is that any visible oil is too much oil. Is this correct? The turbo seal failures I have heard of have been catastrophic. This is not. But I suppose it could go catastrophic at any time. Any body got a cheap source for a turbo cartridge? Les Blumner had a source that was something like $80. I have seen $250. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? ...or a plugged drain line. If you plug the drain and feed it oil under pressure, the oil will get into the turbine/compressor housings. I'm pretty sure they don't have contact seals on the shaft, but if the bearings wore out and had radial slop the labyrinth seals would get chewed too and might let oil into the compressor section. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
All diesel engines have some blowby -- easy enough to check on a 603, just pull the hard plastic hose out of the intake boot in front of the turbo. I believe mine is bad, due to the amount of oil consumption (too high for the front seal leak to account for) and blue smoke on startup (new head about 60,000 miles ago, although quality of that job is unknown). To check, take the intake boot off with the engine stopped and rotate the turbo by hand. It must turn very smoothly and have zero axial play. There will be barely detectable side play as it has floating bearings. It must turn very easily, although it will not spin freely without oil pressure, and must not bind anywhere in rotation. Rough, tight, or gritty sensations while rotating it indicate wiped bearings. Last turbo cartridge I got was $400 for the job, rush basis with overnight shipping since I was in a hurry. Car ran MUCH better (it was my old Volvo TD). If you have used Mobil 1 for the entire time of operation, the turbo may indeed never wear out, but dino oil and interstate rest stops kill them fast -- you pull off the highway and shut it off with the turbine red hot, and the oil cokes in the bearings. Not too much later, the bearings have been eroded by the carbon buildup, and it starts to run slow and leak oil out both ends. A big leak out the back will make huge clouds of blue smoke, out the front you get excessive oil consumption. If you have oil traveling out the crossover while idling, you definitely have a leaking seal, and usually that means the bearings are gone. Peter On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:11 PM, Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? Does anyone have experience with buying a turbo cartridge? Does anyone know what turbo is on an 87 SDL? Garret or KKK? It looks like some things are accessible from above, and some from below. What is the best method for getting the turbo out? ***prior post*** I think I am on to something. With the crossover off, the insides are abnormally clean. Like a complete M1 wash. No gunk, no black, except where oil has pooled a little. Started up the engine. when I revved up the engine enough so that the turbo started, and held it there, there was oil climbing up the throat of the turbo and running counterclockwise to the high side of the throat. if I ran the RPM up to 3k or so, then the air blew away the oil. It is not enough to get a bath. I am suspecting that what I am seeing is enough to wash the crossover/intake clean, smoke, especially on startup, and washdown the port side of the engine through the crossover pipe not being sealed well. My guess is that any visible oil is too much oil. Is this correct? The turbo seal failures I have heard of have been catastrophic. This is not. But I suppose it could go catastrophic at any time. Any body got a cheap source for a turbo cartridge? Les Blumner had a source that was something like $80. I have seen $250. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Is there any way to check the drain without taking the drain or the turbo off? My guess is not. I can't imagine the drain getting plugged when M1 is in the engine. I am inclined to order a turbo cartridge and just change it. If the drain is plugged, I could clean and replace and keep the cartridge on a shelf. Where does the oil feed line come in? What other parts are needed or should be replaced when replacing the turbo? Is it necessary to take off the exhaust manifold to take out the turbo? The * forum had a post where someone said taking off the cranckase vent hose decreased pressure in the crankcase and stopped oil leaking into the turbo. Sounds fishy to me on a 603. Since it is now functional, I am inclined to leave it alone until I have all parts in hand. If I tear into it, it might be weeks or months until it gets finished because of the distance involved. Parts needed: 2 or more drain tube o-rings 2 oil drain gaskets EGR block kit. (have that at home but forgot to bring it.) Whatever it takes to insure the oil feed is reliable...(? gaskets? hose? new steel line?) Turbo cartridge kit. (should include necessary parts to change) It is wasting probably 3-4 quarts of oil a week currently. I need to either order parts in the morning or postpone the mess until another trip. No trip is on the horizon until November. 1987 300SDL is the subject. Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? ...or a plugged drain line. If you plug the drain and feed it oil under pressure, the oil will get into the turbine/compressor housings. I'm pretty sure they don't have contact seals on the shaft, but if the bearings wore out and had radial slop the labyrinth seals would get chewed too and might let oil into the compressor section. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
The turbos can be either Garrett or KKK. They were used interchangeably from the factory. You do not need to take off the exhaust manifold. You will need the metal gasket that goes between the turbo the manifold. You may need to purchase studs or new copper nuts if you have problems. The O-rings are pretty hardy but you may want to replace them. For reassembly, I found it is helpful to assemble the parts before fastening any nuts because there isn't a lot of play. On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Is there any way to check the drain without taking the drain or the turbo off? My guess is not. I can't imagine the drain getting plugged when M1 is in the engine. I am inclined to order a turbo cartridge and just change it. If the drain is plugged, I could clean and replace and keep the cartridge on a shelf. Where does the oil feed line come in? What other parts are needed or should be replaced when replacing the turbo? Is it necessary to take off the exhaust manifold to take out the turbo? The * forum had a post where someone said taking off the cranckase vent hose decreased pressure in the crankcase and stopped oil leaking into the turbo. Sounds fishy to me on a 603. Since it is now functional, I am inclined to leave it alone until I have all parts in hand. If I tear into it, it might be weeks or months until it gets finished because of the distance involved. Parts needed: 2 or more drain tube o-rings 2 oil drain gaskets EGR block kit. (have that at home but forgot to bring it.) Whatever it takes to insure the oil feed is reliable...(? gaskets? hose? new steel line?) Turbo cartridge kit. (should include necessary parts to change) It is wasting probably 3-4 quarts of oil a week currently. I need to either order parts in the morning or postpone the mess until another trip. No trip is on the horizon until November. 1987 300SDL is the subject. Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? ...or a plugged drain line. If you plug the drain and feed it oil under pressure, the oil will get into the turbine/compressor housings. I'm pretty sure they don't have contact seals on the shaft, but if the bearings wore out and had radial slop the labyrinth seals would get chewed too and might let oil into the compressor section. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
I did not pull off the intake yet. That was on my list for the morning. Along with wrapping the joint at the crossover/intake manifold with a white rag and after a highway drive, checking to see if oil is leaking out there. After 300k to 400k, the shaft on my old SDL had imperceptible side play, but did have noticeable end play. It and the engine were fine. I have run M1, but I doubt any PO did. I asked Daughter about hot shutoffs, and I am not sure if she has been guilty of that. All diesel engines have some blowby -- easy enough to check on a 603, just pull the hard plastic hose out of the intake boot in front of the turbo. I believe mine is bad, due to the amount of oil consumption (too high for the front seal leak to account for) and blue smoke on startup (new head about 60,000 miles ago, although quality of that job is unknown). To check, take the intake boot off with the engine stopped and rotate the turbo by hand. It must turn very smoothly and have zero axial play. There will be barely detectable side play as it has floating bearings. It must turn very easily, although it will not spin freely without oil pressure, and must not bind anywhere in rotation. Rough, tight, or gritty sensations while rotating it indicate wiped bearings. Last turbo cartridge I got was $400 for the job, rush basis with overnight shipping since I was in a hurry. Car ran MUCH better (it was my old Volvo TD). If you have used Mobil 1 for the entire time of operation, the turbo may indeed never wear out, but dino oil and interstate rest stops kill them fast -- you pull off the highway and shut it off with the turbine red hot, and the oil cokes in the bearings. Not too much later, the bearings have been eroded by the carbon buildup, and it starts to run slow and leak oil out both ends. A big leak out the back will make huge clouds of blue smoke, out the front you get excessive oil consumption. If you have oil traveling out the crossover while idling, you definitely have a leaking seal, and usually that means the bearings are gone. Peter On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:11 PM, Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? Does anyone have experience with buying a turbo cartridge? Does anyone know what turbo is on an 87 SDL? Garret or KKK? It looks like some things are accessible from above, and some from below. What is the best method for getting the turbo out? ***prior post*** I think I am on to something. With the crossover off, the insides are abnormally clean. Like a complete M1 wash. No gunk, no black, except where oil has pooled a little. Started up the engine. when I revved up the engine enough so that the turbo started, and held it there, there was oil climbing up the throat of the turbo and running counterclockwise to the high side of the throat. if I ran the RPM up to 3k or so, then the air blew away the oil. It is not enough to get a bath. I am suspecting that what I am seeing is enough to wash the crossover/intake clean, smoke, especially on startup, and washdown the port side of the engine through the crossover pipe not being sealed well. My guess is that any visible oil is too much oil. Is this correct? The turbo seal failures I have heard of have been catastrophic. This is not. But I suppose it could go catastrophic at any time. Any body got a cheap source for a turbo cartridge? Les Blumner had a source that was something like $80. I have seen $250. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
It is unlikely that hot shutoffs killed your turbo. Some parts just break and no amount of oil changes or babying could have prevented it. On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 5:52 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I did not pull off the intake yet. That was on my list for the morning. Along with wrapping the joint at the crossover/intake manifold with a white rag and after a highway drive, checking to see if oil is leaking out there. After 300k to 400k, the shaft on my old SDL had imperceptible side play, but did have noticeable end play. It and the engine were fine. I have run M1, but I doubt any PO did. I asked Daughter about hot shutoffs, and I am not sure if she has been guilty of that. All diesel engines have some blowby -- easy enough to check on a 603, just pull the hard plastic hose out of the intake boot in front of the turbo. I believe mine is bad, due to the amount of oil consumption (too high for the front seal leak to account for) and blue smoke on startup (new head about 60,000 miles ago, although quality of that job is unknown). To check, take the intake boot off with the engine stopped and rotate the turbo by hand. It must turn very smoothly and have zero axial play. There will be barely detectable side play as it has floating bearings. It must turn very easily, although it will not spin freely without oil pressure, and must not bind anywhere in rotation. Rough, tight, or gritty sensations while rotating it indicate wiped bearings. Last turbo cartridge I got was $400 for the job, rush basis with overnight shipping since I was in a hurry. Car ran MUCH better (it was my old Volvo TD). If you have used Mobil 1 for the entire time of operation, the turbo may indeed never wear out, but dino oil and interstate rest stops kill them fast -- you pull off the highway and shut it off with the turbine red hot, and the oil cokes in the bearings. Not too much later, the bearings have been eroded by the carbon buildup, and it starts to run slow and leak oil out both ends. A big leak out the back will make huge clouds of blue smoke, out the front you get excessive oil consumption. If you have oil traveling out the crossover while idling, you definitely have a leaking seal, and usually that means the bearings are gone. Peter On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:11 PM, Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? Does anyone have experience with buying a turbo cartridge? Does anyone know what turbo is on an 87 SDL? Garret or KKK? It looks like some things are accessible from above, and some from below. What is the best method for getting the turbo out? ***prior post*** I think I am on to something. With the crossover off, the insides are abnormally clean. Like a complete M1 wash. No gunk, no black, except where oil has pooled a little. Started up the engine. when I revved up the engine enough so that the turbo started, and held it there, there was oil climbing up the throat of the turbo and running counterclockwise to the high side of the throat. if I ran the RPM up to 3k or so, then the air blew away the oil. It is not enough to get a bath. I am suspecting that what I am seeing is enough to wash the crossover/intake clean, smoke, especially on startup, and washdown the port side of the engine through the crossover pipe not being sealed well. My guess is that any visible oil is too much oil. Is this correct? The turbo seal failures I have heard of have been catastrophic. This is not. But I suppose it could go catastrophic at any time. Any body got a cheap source for a turbo cartridge? Les Blumner had a source that was something like $80. I have seen $250. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Oil feed line is on top, under the EGR assembly. You will probably need to also remove the 10 mm screw that holds the line to the bracket, and possibly the fitting on the block as well. Not a big deal. The exhaust is connected via some accordioned stainless parts with strap clamps, easy to manage. I'm guessing your oil consumption will go way down with a new one. Peter On Mar 12, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Is there any way to check the drain without taking the drain or the turbo off? My guess is not. I can't imagine the drain getting plugged when M1 is in the engine. I am inclined to order a turbo cartridge and just change it. If the drain is plugged, I could clean and replace and keep the cartridge on a shelf. Where does the oil feed line come in? What other parts are needed or should be replaced when replacing the turbo? Is it necessary to take off the exhaust manifold to take out the turbo? The * forum had a post where someone said taking off the cranckase vent hose decreased pressure in the crankcase and stopped oil leaking into the turbo. Sounds fishy to me on a 603. Since it is now functional, I am inclined to leave it alone until I have all parts in hand. If I tear into it, it might be weeks or months until it gets finished because of the distance involved. Parts needed: 2 or more drain tube o-rings 2 oil drain gaskets EGR block kit. (have that at home but forgot to bring it.) Whatever it takes to insure the oil feed is reliable...(? gaskets? hose? new steel line?) Turbo cartridge kit. (should include necessary parts to change) It is wasting probably 3-4 quarts of oil a week currently. I need to either order parts in the morning or postpone the mess until another trip. No trip is on the horizon until November. 1987 300SDL is the subject. Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? ...or a plugged drain line. If you plug the drain and feed it oil under pressure, the oil will get into the turbine/compressor housings. I'm pretty sure they don't have contact seals on the shaft, but if the bearings wore out and had radial slop the labyrinth seals would get chewed too and might let oil into the compressor section. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
yes. 270k miles is on the low side of longevity, but not unheard of. 500k miles is probably the top of longevity. (with possible outliers) It is unlikely that hot shutoffs killed your turbo. Some parts just break and no amount of oil changes or babying could have prevented it. On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 5:52 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I did not pull off the intake yet. That was on my list for the morning. Along with wrapping the joint at the crossover/intake manifold with a white rag and after a highway drive, checking to see if oil is leaking out there. After 300k to 400k, the shaft on my old SDL had imperceptible side play, but did have noticeable end play. It and the engine were fine. I have run M1, but I doubt any PO did. I asked Daughter about hot shutoffs, and I am not sure if she has been guilty of that. All diesel engines have some blowby -- easy enough to check on a 603, just pull the hard plastic hose out of the intake boot in front of the turbo. I believe mine is bad, due to the amount of oil consumption (too high for the front seal leak to account for) and blue smoke on startup (new head about 60,000 miles ago, although quality of that job is unknown). To check, take the intake boot off with the engine stopped and rotate the turbo by hand. It must turn very smoothly and have zero axial play. There will be barely detectable side play as it has floating bearings. It must turn very easily, although it will not spin freely without oil pressure, and must not bind anywhere in rotation. Rough, tight, or gritty sensations while rotating it indicate wiped bearings. Last turbo cartridge I got was $400 for the job, rush basis with overnight shipping since I was in a hurry. Car ran MUCH better (it was my old Volvo TD). If you have used Mobil 1 for the entire time of operation, the turbo may indeed never wear out, but dino oil and interstate rest stops kill them fast -- you pull off the highway and shut it off with the turbine red hot, and the oil cokes in the bearings. Not too much later, the bearings have been eroded by the carbon buildup, and it starts to run slow and leak oil out both ends. A big leak out the back will make huge clouds of blue smoke, out the front you get excessive oil consumption. If you have oil traveling out the crossover while idling, you definitely have a leaking seal, and usually that means the bearings are gone. Peter On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:11 PM, Dieselhead wrote: From no responses, I gather nobody else has had a turbo failure. Is that right? Is it correct that any oil in the compressor is conclusive evidence of seal failure? Does anyone have experience with buying a turbo cartridge? Does anyone know what turbo is on an 87 SDL? Garret or KKK? It looks like some things are accessible from above, and some from below. What is the best method for getting the turbo out? ***prior post*** I think I am on to something. With the crossover off, the insides are abnormally clean. Like a complete M1 wash. No gunk, no black, except where oil has pooled a little. Started up the engine. when I revved up the engine enough so that the turbo started, and held it there, there was oil climbing up the throat of the turbo and running counterclockwise to the high side of the throat. if I ran the RPM up to 3k or so, then the air blew away the oil. It is not enough to get a bath. I am suspecting that what I am seeing is enough to wash the crossover/intake clean, smoke, especially on startup, and washdown the port side of the engine through the crossover pipe not being sealed well. My guess is that any visible oil is too much oil. Is this correct? The turbo seal failures I have heard of have been catastrophic. This is not. But I suppose it could go catastrophic at any time. Any body got a cheap source for a turbo cartridge? Les Blumner had a source that was something like $80. I have seen $250. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives
[MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
Does anyone know what turbo is on an 87 SDL? Garret or KKK? It looks like some things are accessible from above, and some from below. What is the best method for getting the turbo out? I think I am on to something. With the crossover off, the insides are abnormally clean. Like a complete M1 wash. No gunk, no black, except where oil has pooled a little. Started up the engine. when I revved up the engine enough so that the turbo started, and held it there, there was oil climbing up the throat of the turbo and running counterclockwise to the high side of the throat. if I ran the RPM up to 3k or so, then the air blew away the oil. It is not enough to get a bath. I am suspecting that what I am seeing is enough to wash the crossover/intake clean, smoke, especially on startup, and washdown the port side of the engine through the crossover pipe not being sealed well. My guess is that any visible oil is too much oil. Is this correct? The turbo seal failures I have heard of have been catastrophic. This is not. But I suppose it could go catastrophic at any time. Any body got a cheap source for a turbo cartridge? Les Blumner had a source that was something like $80. I have seen $250. Got the SDL jacked up today to look for leaks. Compressor side of Turbo is all wet with oil. It is NOT washed clean from the oil. The drain pipe is not oily. the top mount of the drain pipe is wet, and it looks like from above. The bottom mount is also wet, but no signs of a major leak. the vacuum pod that controls the wastegate is coated with dirt and oil, but nothing fresh. I could not find the pressure line that feeds the turbo. Where do you see it? Left side of engine is wet and oily all over. I knew the shutoff oring on the IP is bad, had ordered replacements from Q last week. no signs of oil leaking out from the head to block seam. No oil leaks apparent from IP to block. That oring was new last summer. Even the shutoff on top of the IP is wet with oil. Oil all over the IP, the fuel heater, left motor mount, the head, and the side of the block. Left side of the oil pan is washed clean from oil. Bottom of oil pan is coated and dripping oil. When I looked where the car has been parked, the oil is pretty much centered under the car. Like dripping off the oil pan. Front seal shows no sign of excessive leakage. What is up with this? how does oil get all over the side of the engine with no sign of valve cover leaking? here is my new theory: if the turbo is leaking AND the crossover pipe to intake manifold is leaking out the bottom, then an oil spray could be blown all over the engine when the turbo is spooled up. That could account for the head being wet with oil on the left side, but the valve cover does not leak. Would account for smokin and leaking. It would also account for oil all over the compressor side of the turbo: Oil in the crossover and the feed pipe drains down and pools in the compressor, with seepage out the air intake hose fitting to the turbo. I am off to remove the crossover and start it up and see if an oil shower results. Subject is 87 SDL OM603. I had the 126 CD on this computer before the HD died. It is gone now. Ceerap. I left the cds at home. Could be a bad turbo, which will cause all the problems other than the oil drip (unless the drain tube is bad too). I've had this happen in my old Volvo -- an amazing amount of coked oil in the exhaust. Leaking turbo seals can put quite a bit of oil into the intake -- I'm thinking mine is shot due to excess oil consumption and lousy performance at light throttle, same as the Volvo when the turbo quit on it. One thing to check for -- does it clank too? If so, bent #1 rod because you didn't replace the head gasket before #1 cylinder filled up with oil on an intake stroke from a failed head gasket there. Peter On Mar 4, 2012, at 2:02 PM, dave walton wrote: I'll second that. Leak is probably in the front of the engine. Oil is being blown back to where it collects and drips. I've found UV dye and a UV LED flashlight to help in finding the source. I've only had one leaking turbo. It was leaking into the intake. If you remove the crossover tube and stand in the right place on the drivers side while you rev the engine, you will get a nice oil bath :-) Wash, rinse, and repeat 3 times to get dirty M1 out of your hair. My wife said she could still smell it for a week. -Dave Walton On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote: Blown head gasket Sent from my iPhone On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:49 AM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Daughter reports that the SDL is consuming oil rapidly, and oil is dripping on the passenger side near the rear of the engine. The engine is also smoking more than normal. Turbo seals? Turbo drain seals? anything else that could be causing oil drips and oil into the cylinders?
Re: [MBZ] 603 turbo WAS:smokin SDL
The Garrett and KKK turbochargers are interchangeable and both were used. On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know what turbo is on an 87 SDL? Garret or KKK? It looks like some things are accessible from above, and some from below. What is the best method for getting the turbo out? I think I am on to something. With the crossover off, the insides are abnormally clean. Like a complete M1 wash. No gunk, no black, except where oil has pooled a little. Started up the engine. when I revved up the engine enough so that the turbo started, and held it there, there was oil climbing up the throat of the turbo and running counterclockwise to the high side of the throat. if I ran the RPM up to 3k or so, then the air blew away the oil. It is not enough to get a bath. I am suspecting that what I am seeing is enough to wash the crossover/intake clean, smoke, especially on startup, and washdown the port side of the engine through the crossover pipe not being sealed well. My guess is that any visible oil is too much oil. Is this correct? The turbo seal failures I have heard of have been catastrophic. This is not. But I suppose it could go catastrophic at any time. Any body got a cheap source for a turbo cartridge? Les Blumner had a source that was something like $80. I have seen $250. Got the SDL jacked up today to look for leaks. Compressor side of Turbo is all wet with oil. It is NOT washed clean from the oil. The drain pipe is not oily. the top mount of the drain pipe is wet, and it looks like from above. The bottom mount is also wet, but no signs of a major leak. the vacuum pod that controls the wastegate is coated with dirt and oil, but nothing fresh. I could not find the pressure line that feeds the turbo. Where do you see it? Left side of engine is wet and oily all over. I knew the shutoff oring on the IP is bad, had ordered replacements from Q last week. no signs of oil leaking out from the head to block seam. No oil leaks apparent from IP to block. That oring was new last summer. Even the shutoff on top of the IP is wet with oil. Oil all over the IP, the fuel heater, left motor mount, the head, and the side of the block. Left side of the oil pan is washed clean from oil. Bottom of oil pan is coated and dripping oil. When I looked where the car has been parked, the oil is pretty much centered under the car. Like dripping off the oil pan. Front seal shows no sign of excessive leakage. What is up with this? how does oil get all over the side of the engine with no sign of valve cover leaking? here is my new theory: if the turbo is leaking AND the crossover pipe to intake manifold is leaking out the bottom, then an oil spray could be blown all over the engine when the turbo is spooled up. That could account for the head being wet with oil on the left side, but the valve cover does not leak. Would account for smokin and leaking. It would also account for oil all over the compressor side of the turbo: Oil in the crossover and the feed pipe drains down and pools in the compressor, with seepage out the air intake hose fitting to the turbo. I am off to remove the crossover and start it up and see if an oil shower results. Subject is 87 SDL OM603. I had the 126 CD on this computer before the HD died. It is gone now. Ceerap. I left the cds at home. Could be a bad turbo, which will cause all the problems other than the oil drip (unless the drain tube is bad too). I've had this happen in my old Volvo -- an amazing amount of coked oil in the exhaust. Leaking turbo seals can put quite a bit of oil into the intake -- I'm thinking mine is shot due to excess oil consumption and lousy performance at light throttle, same as the Volvo when the turbo quit on it. One thing to check for -- does it clank too? If so, bent #1 rod because you didn't replace the head gasket before #1 cylinder filled up with oil on an intake stroke from a failed head gasket there. Peter On Mar 4, 2012, at 2:02 PM, dave walton wrote: I'll second that. Leak is probably in the front of the engine. Oil is being blown back to where it collects and drips. I've found UV dye and a UV LED flashlight to help in finding the source. I've only had one leaking turbo. It was leaking into the intake. If you remove the crossover tube and stand in the right place on the drivers side while you rev the engine, you will get a nice oil bath :-) Wash, rinse, and repeat 3 times to get dirty M1 out of your hair. My wife said she could still smell it for a week. -Dave Walton On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net wrote: Blown head gasket Sent from my iPhone On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:49 AM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Daughter reports that the SDL is consuming oil rapidly, and oil is dripping on the passenger side near the rear of the
