Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

> 
> > On Jun 26, 2020, at 3:15 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Anyone here have experience raising chickens for meat?
> > 
> > Wondering how much work it is on a daily basis. What is the total cost
> > per bird from acquisition to dinner plate?
> > 
> > Allan
--
Here's everything you need to know about raising chickens:

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-iba-1=yhs-1=iba=RAISING+CHICKENS+FUNNY#id=2=909cbce6dc32be299e56aa9e440cba43=view

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Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

To me rabbits taste like chicken, maybe halfway between light and dark meat.
I've butchered hundreds of the things.  Relatively few chickens, in comparison.
Also ducks, geese, and turkeys.  Peeling the pelt off of a rabbit is much easier
than dealing with the feathers: scald, pluck, singe.  Or, go skinless?  I've 
eaten
eggs from all of these birds, I prefer the chickens'.  All of this is 30+ years 
in the
past for me.

NONE of these are economically justifiable to home-grow.  You do it for other
reasons, or best not do it at all.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

My neighbor did eggs for awhile on a sizable scale and had a closed in wagon 
kind of thing he would move around. It had boxes for the chickens to roost in. 
Had to keep it tight to keep out all manner of vermin, slithering, flying, 
4-legged. Seems like everything likes chickens and eggs. 

He moved them to a big enclosed area at some point, they would stay there, but 
hawks and eagles would get some. Locked them up at night. He finally got 
another guy up the road to take them, that guy’s got an egg operation now. It’s 
a lot of work and bother. 

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Jun 26, 2020, at 4:18 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> If you had a bunch of space you could build a chicken coop on wheels

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Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[Clay via Mercedes]

More miles out of the eggs than the meat.  Daily donation of protein.   Middle 
Ages poor only ate chicken when the things were worn out.  Rich ate hens since 
they were 1% and eggs were low class.  Like being special and able to buy 
organic/gluten free/virtue food now.

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Jun 26, 2020, at 12:53 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> When a global pandemic comes along and all your neighbors are wondering how 
> long the meat supply at the grocery will last you walk out to the chicken 
> shed and say "Number 14, its your day!"
> The numbering is kind of important, don't name freezer pets...
> -Curt


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Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Agreed, but economics (and time) is always part of the equation at some
point. That's different for different people, of course.

Allan

OK Don via Mercedes  writes:

> It would be like a lot of things us DIY'ers do - a labor of love, bragging
> rights for growing your own meat under conditions that you control, etc. In
> this case, the economics don't enter the equation. I think the same applies
> to our gardens - we spend more money, but get higher quality, and we know
> where it came from, plus my wife loves to grow things that she can eat!
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:40 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks. "Too much work and expense for small timers" is pretty much what
>> I figured but I was curious.
>>
>> Allan
>>
>>
>> Clay via Mercedes  writes:
>>
>> > I considered it, for a few moments.  Far too much work and expense for
>> small timers.  Most chickens do not have enough meat to be worthwhile.  It
>> takes around 15-18 weeks for them to grow large enough for adequate meat.
>> Got to process them before puberty to reduce hormones flavoring the flesh.
>> >
>> > First two months require constant heat and care with feeding, water,
>> clean up of poo.  Also ever expanding space requirements.  You can then
>> move them outside once it gets above 60’s at night. Still need fresh water
>> daily with lots of food, safe space to hang out, and heated areas for when
>> it gets cool.  Lots of labor.  One pound of feed daily for around 50
>> peeps.  Older birds can run up to a kilo each day if you keep them locked
>> up.
>> >
>> > Organic feed is expensive.  Baby feed is required for the first two
>> months, then basic feed (not layer) can be given.  Table scraps and greens
>> will make them happy.  The cost per bird at harvest is around $14 for two
>> pounds of meat.  Cost is much reduced at very large scale.
>> >
>> > A 10x12 shed is good for 50-100 birds from peeps to pot.  Peeps will be
>> on the floor.  As they mature, they can migrate onto roost.  Nothing
>> taller/higher than 5” for the first three weeks, then maybe to 8” off the
>> floor the next month.  Peeps falling from height is instant death.  12 week
>> old can hop and climb to heights that are fatal as well.  Especially for
>> the fat birds for meat.
>> >
>> > Eating layers once they stop is much more economical.  You got two to
>> three years of eggs (3-5 gross), then some slightly stringy meat for pot
>> pies.  What they eat has an impact on meat flavor.  Protein rich food is
>> best.  They love cheese, peanut butter, hot dogs, lawns with bugs and baby
>> plants.  All manner of grain is also a great supplement to bagged feed.
>> >
>> > clay
>> >
>> > I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> On Jun 26, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Anyone here have experience raising chickens for meat?
>> >>
>> >> Wondering how much work it is on a daily basis. What is the total cost
>> >> per bird from acquisition to dinner plate?
>> >>
>> >> Allan
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!


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Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Absolutely. I just walk out to the deep freezer and decide what I want to thaw 
out over the next 30-45 days.

-D

> On Jun 26, 2020, at 4:53 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> When a global pandemic comes along and all your neighbors are wondering how 
> long the meat supply at the grocery will last you walk out to the chicken 
> shed and say "Number 14, its your day!"
> The numbering is kind of important, don't name freezer pets...
> -Curt
> 
>On Friday, June 26, 2020, 4:44:10 PM EDT, OK Don via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
> 
> It would be like a lot of things us DIY'ers do - a labor of love, bragging
> rights for growing your own meat under conditions that you control, etc. In
> this case, the economics don't enter the equation. I think the same applies
> to our gardens - we spend more money, but get higher quality, and we know
> where it came from, plus my wife loves to grow things that she can eat!
> 
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:40 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks. "Too much work and expense for small timers" is pretty much what
>> I figured but I was curious.
>> 
>> Allan
>> 
>> 
>> Clay via Mercedes  writes:
>> 
>>> I considered it, for a few moments.  Far too much work and expense for
>> small timers.  Most chickens do not have enough meat to be worthwhile.  It
>> takes around 15-18 weeks for them to grow large enough for adequate meat.
>> Got to process them before puberty to reduce hormones flavoring the flesh.
>>> 
>>> First two months require constant heat and care with feeding, water,
>> clean up of poo.  Also ever expanding space requirements.  You can then
>> move them outside once it gets above 60’s at night. Still need fresh water
>> daily with lots of food, safe space to hang out, and heated areas for when
>> it gets cool.  Lots of labor.  One pound of feed daily for around 50
>> peeps.  Older birds can run up to a kilo each day if you keep them locked
>> up.
>>> 
>>> Organic feed is expensive.  Baby feed is required for the first two
>> months, then basic feed (not layer) can be given.  Table scraps and greens
>> will make them happy.  The cost per bird at harvest is around $14 for two
>> pounds of meat.  Cost is much reduced at very large scale.
>>> 
>>> A 10x12 shed is good for 50-100 birds from peeps to pot.  Peeps will be
>> on the floor.  As they mature, they can migrate onto roost.  Nothing
>> taller/higher than 5” for the first three weeks, then maybe to 8” off the
>> floor the next month.  Peeps falling from height is instant death.  12 week
>> old can hop and climb to heights that are fatal as well.  Especially for
>> the fat birds for meat.
>>> 
>>> Eating layers once they stop is much more economical.  You got two to
>> three years of eggs (3-5 gross), then some slightly stringy meat for pot
>> pies.  What they eat has an impact on meat flavor.  Protein rich food is
>> best.  They love cheese, peanut butter, hot dogs, lawns with bugs and baby
>> plants.  All manner of grain is also a great supplement to bagged feed.
>>> 
>>> clay
>>> 
>>> I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jun 26, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 Anyone here have experience raising chickens for meat?
 
 Wondering how much work it is on a daily basis. What is the total cost
 per bird from acquisition to dinner plate?
 
 Allan
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 When a global pandemic comes along and all your neighbors are wondering how 
long the meat supply at the grocery will last you walk out to the chicken shed 
and say "Number 14, its your day!"
The numbering is kind of important, don't name freezer pets...
-Curt

On Friday, June 26, 2020, 4:44:10 PM EDT, OK Don via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 It would be like a lot of things us DIY'ers do - a labor of love, bragging
rights for growing your own meat under conditions that you control, etc. In
this case, the economics don't enter the equation. I think the same applies
to our gardens - we spend more money, but get higher quality, and we know
where it came from, plus my wife loves to grow things that she can eat!

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:40 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Thanks. "Too much work and expense for small timers" is pretty much what
> I figured but I was curious.
>
> Allan
>
>
> Clay via Mercedes  writes:
>
> > I considered it, for a few moments.  Far too much work and expense for
> small timers.  Most chickens do not have enough meat to be worthwhile.  It
> takes around 15-18 weeks for them to grow large enough for adequate meat.
> Got to process them before puberty to reduce hormones flavoring the flesh.
> >
> > First two months require constant heat and care with feeding, water,
> clean up of poo.  Also ever expanding space requirements.  You can then
> move them outside once it gets above 60’s at night. Still need fresh water
> daily with lots of food, safe space to hang out, and heated areas for when
> it gets cool.  Lots of labor.  One pound of feed daily for around 50
> peeps.  Older birds can run up to a kilo each day if you keep them locked
> up.
> >
> > Organic feed is expensive.  Baby feed is required for the first two
> months, then basic feed (not layer) can be given.  Table scraps and greens
> will make them happy.  The cost per bird at harvest is around $14 for two
> pounds of meat.  Cost is much reduced at very large scale.
> >
> > A 10x12 shed is good for 50-100 birds from peeps to pot.  Peeps will be
> on the floor.  As they mature, they can migrate onto roost.  Nothing
> taller/higher than 5” for the first three weeks, then maybe to 8” off the
> floor the next month.  Peeps falling from height is instant death.  12 week
> old can hop and climb to heights that are fatal as well.  Especially for
> the fat birds for meat.
> >
> > Eating layers once they stop is much more economical.  You got two to
> three years of eggs (3-5 gross), then some slightly stringy meat for pot
> pies.  What they eat has an impact on meat flavor.  Protein rich food is
> best.  They love cheese, peanut butter, hot dogs, lawns with bugs and baby
> plants.  All manner of grain is also a great supplement to bagged feed.
> >
> > clay
> >
> > I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Jun 26, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Anyone here have experience raising chickens for meat?
> >>
> >> Wondering how much work it is on a daily basis. What is the total cost
> >> per bird from acquisition to dinner plate?
> >>
> >> Allan
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Well, as Clay outlined, to make it really viable you would have to go all in 
with quite a bit of stuff, both supplies and birds. Either that or buy a 
package of boneless, skinless chicken breasts at the store and call it a day.

-D

> On Jun 26, 2020, at 4:38 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks. "Too much work and expense for small timers" is pretty much what
> I figured but I was curious.
> 
> Allan
> 
> 
> Clay via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> I considered it, for a few moments.  Far too much work and expense for small 
>> timers.  Most chickens do not have enough meat to be worthwhile.  It takes 
>> around 15-18 weeks for them to grow large enough for adequate meat.  Got to 
>> process them before puberty to reduce hormones flavoring the flesh.
>> 
>> First two months require constant heat and care with feeding, water, clean 
>> up of poo.  Also ever expanding space requirements.  You can then move them 
>> outside once it gets above 60’s at night. Still need fresh water daily with 
>> lots of food, safe space to hang out, and heated areas for when it gets 
>> cool.  Lots of labor.  One pound of feed daily for around 50 peeps.  Older 
>> birds can run up to a kilo each day if you keep them locked up.
>> 
>> Organic feed is expensive.  Baby feed is required for the first two months, 
>> then basic feed (not layer) can be given.  Table scraps and greens will make 
>> them happy.  The cost per bird at harvest is around $14 for two pounds of 
>> meat.  Cost is much reduced at very large scale.
>> 
>> A 10x12 shed is good for 50-100 birds from peeps to pot.  Peeps will be on 
>> the floor.  As they mature, they can migrate onto roost.  Nothing 
>> taller/higher than 5” for the first three weeks, then maybe to 8” off the 
>> floor the next month.  Peeps falling from height is instant death.  12 week 
>> old can hop and climb to heights that are fatal as well.  Especially for the 
>> fat birds for meat.
>> 
>> Eating layers once they stop is much more economical.  You got two to three 
>> years of eggs (3-5 gross), then some slightly stringy meat for pot pies.  
>> What they eat has an impact on meat flavor.  Protein rich food is best.  
>> They love cheese, peanut butter, hot dogs, lawns with bugs and baby plants.  
>> All manner of grain is also a great supplement to bagged feed.
>> 
>> clay 
>> 
>> I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Anyone here have experience raising chickens for meat?
>>> 
>>> Wondering how much work it is on a daily basis. What is the total cost
>>> per bird from acquisition to dinner plate?
>>> 
>>> Allan
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[OK Don via Mercedes]

It would be like a lot of things us DIY'ers do - a labor of love, bragging
rights for growing your own meat under conditions that you control, etc. In
this case, the economics don't enter the equation. I think the same applies
to our gardens - we spend more money, but get higher quality, and we know
where it came from, plus my wife loves to grow things that she can eat!

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:40 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Thanks. "Too much work and expense for small timers" is pretty much what
> I figured but I was curious.
>
> Allan
>
>
> Clay via Mercedes  writes:
>
> > I considered it, for a few moments.  Far too much work and expense for
> small timers.  Most chickens do not have enough meat to be worthwhile.  It
> takes around 15-18 weeks for them to grow large enough for adequate meat.
> Got to process them before puberty to reduce hormones flavoring the flesh.
> >
> > First two months require constant heat and care with feeding, water,
> clean up of poo.  Also ever expanding space requirements.  You can then
> move them outside once it gets above 60’s at night. Still need fresh water
> daily with lots of food, safe space to hang out, and heated areas for when
> it gets cool.  Lots of labor.  One pound of feed daily for around 50
> peeps.  Older birds can run up to a kilo each day if you keep them locked
> up.
> >
> > Organic feed is expensive.  Baby feed is required for the first two
> months, then basic feed (not layer) can be given.  Table scraps and greens
> will make them happy.  The cost per bird at harvest is around $14 for two
> pounds of meat.  Cost is much reduced at very large scale.
> >
> > A 10x12 shed is good for 50-100 birds from peeps to pot.  Peeps will be
> on the floor.  As they mature, they can migrate onto roost.  Nothing
> taller/higher than 5” for the first three weeks, then maybe to 8” off the
> floor the next month.  Peeps falling from height is instant death.  12 week
> old can hop and climb to heights that are fatal as well.  Especially for
> the fat birds for meat.
> >
> > Eating layers once they stop is much more economical.  You got two to
> three years of eggs (3-5 gross), then some slightly stringy meat for pot
> pies.  What they eat has an impact on meat flavor.  Protein rich food is
> best.  They love cheese, peanut butter, hot dogs, lawns with bugs and baby
> plants.  All manner of grain is also a great supplement to bagged feed.
> >
> > clay
> >
> > I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Jun 26, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Anyone here have experience raising chickens for meat?
> >>
> >> Wondering how much work it is on a daily basis. What is the total cost
> >> per bird from acquisition to dinner plate?
> >>
> >> Allan
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Not to mention that they would also fertilize the grass for the next pass -
-

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:18 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  
> If you had a bunch of space you could build a chicken coop on wheels
> (remember it can only have 2 doors) so you could move the birds around.
> With a chicken wire floor the birds will trim the grass and clean up any
> bugs around the place saving a bunch of money in feed but you'd want
> several acres to provide adequately for even a relatively small 20 bird
> herd.
> -Curt
>
>
-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Thanks. "Too much work and expense for small timers" is pretty much what
I figured but I was curious.

Allan


Clay via Mercedes  writes:

> I considered it, for a few moments.  Far too much work and expense for small 
> timers.  Most chickens do not have enough meat to be worthwhile.  It takes 
> around 15-18 weeks for them to grow large enough for adequate meat.  Got to 
> process them before puberty to reduce hormones flavoring the flesh.
>
> First two months require constant heat and care with feeding, water, clean up 
> of poo.  Also ever expanding space requirements.  You can then move them 
> outside once it gets above 60’s at night. Still need fresh water daily with 
> lots of food, safe space to hang out, and heated areas for when it gets cool. 
>  Lots of labor.  One pound of feed daily for around 50 peeps.  Older birds 
> can run up to a kilo each day if you keep them locked up.
>
> Organic feed is expensive.  Baby feed is required for the first two months, 
> then basic feed (not layer) can be given.  Table scraps and greens will make 
> them happy.  The cost per bird at harvest is around $14 for two pounds of 
> meat.  Cost is much reduced at very large scale.
>
> A 10x12 shed is good for 50-100 birds from peeps to pot.  Peeps will be on 
> the floor.  As they mature, they can migrate onto roost.  Nothing 
> taller/higher than 5” for the first three weeks, then maybe to 8” off the 
> floor the next month.  Peeps falling from height is instant death.  12 week 
> old can hop and climb to heights that are fatal as well.  Especially for the 
> fat birds for meat.
>
> Eating layers once they stop is much more economical.  You got two to three 
> years of eggs (3-5 gross), then some slightly stringy meat for pot pies.  
> What they eat has an impact on meat flavor.  Protein rich food is best.  They 
> love cheese, peanut butter, hot dogs, lawns with bugs and baby plants.  All 
> manner of grain is also a great supplement to bagged feed.
>
> clay 
>
> I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
>
>
>
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Anyone here have experience raising chickens for meat?
>> 
>> Wondering how much work it is on a daily basis. What is the total cost
>> per bird from acquisition to dinner plate?
>> 
>> Allan

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Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 I wonder if its a regional variation but I think your numbers are maybe on the 
low side, or perhaps they're taking wintertime averaging into account. When I 
was a kid we had as many as 25 birds at a time. Got pretty much an egg per bird 
per day. You end up just absolutely swamped in eggs. My dad used to take them 
to work to give away, said a lot of young guys that he worked with mostly 
survived on eggs and beer.
Egg layers turned to food after more than a year will be pretty tough eating 
although they'll have way more flavor than factory birds.
Meat birds you'd want to figure getting into the freezer in the fall. Fauch 
family did a video on the processing a few years ago. For reasons I don't 
understand my parents always processed birds on a miserable hot day. Plucking 
chickens is tedious, hard work. Skinning is much faster/easier but you lose the 
skin. I only take the breasts and legs from game birds for a reason and even 
then on a duck or goose you do a fair amount of plucking.
If you had a bunch of space you could build a chicken coop on wheels (remember 
it can only have 2 doors) so you could move the birds around. With a chicken 
wire floor the birds will trim the grass and clean up any bugs around the place 
saving a bunch of money in feed but you'd want several acres to provide 
adequately for even a relatively small 20 bird herd.
-Curt

On Friday, June 26, 2020, 3:57:26 PM EDT, Clay via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Adequate layers produce half a dozen eggs each week.  Depending upon breed and 
how well you keep them safe/happy, egg production ranges from 120 to 300 eggs a 
year.  


clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Jun 26, 2020, at 11:44 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Good point. Hadn’t thought of that, as the big thing around here is farm 
> fresh eggs. A lot of people doing for themselves and selling the remainder to 
> offset their costs.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 3:33 PM, Dwight Giles  wrote:
>> 
>> Different breeds of chickens for meat vs. Eggs.
>> Here in RI we have statue to honor Rhode Island Red chickens.
>> 
>> Dwight Giles Jr.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[Clay via Mercedes]

Adequate layers produce half a dozen eggs each week.  Depending upon breed and 
how well you keep them safe/happy, egg production ranges from 120 to 300 eggs a 
year.  


clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Jun 26, 2020, at 11:44 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Good point. Hadn’t thought of that, as the big thing around here is farm 
> fresh eggs. A lot of people doing for themselves and selling the remainder to 
> offset their costs.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Jun 26, 2020, at 3:33 PM, Dwight Giles  wrote:
>> 
>> Different breeds of chickens for meat vs. Eggs.
>> Here in RI we have statue to honor Rhode Island Red chickens.
>> 
>> Dwight Giles Jr.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[Clay via Mercedes]

I considered it, for a few moments.  Far too much work and expense for small 
timers.  Most chickens do not have enough meat to be worthwhile.  It takes 
around 15-18 weeks for them to grow large enough for adequate meat.  Got to 
process them before puberty to reduce hormones flavoring the flesh.

First two months require constant heat and care with feeding, water, clean up 
of poo.  Also ever expanding space requirements.  You can then move them 
outside once it gets above 60’s at night. Still need fresh water daily with 
lots of food, safe space to hang out, and heated areas for when it gets cool.  
Lots of labor.  One pound of feed daily for around 50 peeps.  Older birds can 
run up to a kilo each day if you keep them locked up.

Organic feed is expensive.  Baby feed is required for the first two months, 
then basic feed (not layer) can be given.  Table scraps and greens will make 
them happy.  The cost per bird at harvest is around $14 for two pounds of meat. 
 Cost is much reduced at very large scale.

A 10x12 shed is good for 50-100 birds from peeps to pot.  Peeps will be on the 
floor.  As they mature, they can migrate onto roost.  Nothing taller/higher 
than 5” for the first three weeks, then maybe to 8” off the floor the next 
month.  Peeps falling from height is instant death.  12 week old can hop and 
climb to heights that are fatal as well.  Especially for the fat birds for meat.

Eating layers once they stop is much more economical.  You got two to three 
years of eggs (3-5 gross), then some slightly stringy meat for pot pies.  What 
they eat has an impact on meat flavor.  Protein rich food is best.  They love 
cheese, peanut butter, hot dogs, lawns with bugs and baby plants.  All manner 
of grain is also a great supplement to bagged feed.

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Jun 26, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Anyone here have experience raising chickens for meat?
> 
> Wondering how much work it is on a daily basis. What is the total cost
> per bird from acquisition to dinner plate?
> 
> Allan

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Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Good point. Hadn’t thought of that, as the big thing around here is farm fresh 
eggs. A lot of people doing for themselves and selling the remainder to offset 
their costs.

-D

> On Jun 26, 2020, at 3:33 PM, Dwight Giles  wrote:
> 
> Different breeds of chickens for meat vs. Eggs.
> Here in RI we have statue to honor Rhode Island Red chickens.
> 
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
> 
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 3:27 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes  > wrote:
> We know people who raise them for eggs, not meat. I’m not sure it’s really 
> worthwhile to raise for meat, I don’t know anyone who does.
> 
> Kaleb has some experience with free range Mercedes, however, it doesn’t 
> appear to be a positive cash flow sort of undertaking, however.
> 
> 
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Jun 26, 2020, at 3:15 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > Anyone here have experience raising chickens for meat?
> > 
> > Wondering how much work it is on a daily basis. What is the total cost
> > per bird from acquisition to dinner plate?
> > 
> > Allan
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com 
> > 
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> > 
> > 
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> > 
> > 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Different breeds of chickens for meat vs. Eggs.
Here in RI we have statue to honor Rhode Island Red chickens.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 3:27 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
wrote:

> We know people who raise them for eggs, not meat. I’m not sure it’s really
> worthwhile to raise for meat, I don’t know anyone who does.
>
> Kaleb has some experience with free range Mercedes, however, it doesn’t
> appear to be a positive cash flow sort of undertaking, however.
>
> 
>
> -D
>
> > On Jun 26, 2020, at 3:15 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Anyone here have experience raising chickens for meat?
> >
> > Wondering how much work it is on a daily basis. What is the total cost
> > per bird from acquisition to dinner plate?
> >
> > Allan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: chickens

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

We know people who raise them for eggs, not meat. I’m not sure it’s really 
worthwhile to raise for meat, I don’t know anyone who does.

Kaleb has some experience with free range Mercedes, however, it doesn’t appear 
to be a positive cash flow sort of undertaking, however.



-D

> On Jun 26, 2020, at 3:15 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Anyone here have experience raising chickens for meat?
> 
> Wondering how much work it is on a daily basis. What is the total cost
> per bird from acquisition to dinner plate?
> 
> Allan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Zoltan Finks]

There is something that sounds very satisfying about that arrangement.
Though I'm sure it's not without its work and trouble. Then again neither is
owning an old car.
Brian

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 5:18 AM, Lee Einer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Chickens have multiple benefits, and there is a veritable explosion in
 home urban chicken raising for this reason. There is a reason why
 chicken feed is a slang expression for cheap. And chicken feed may not
 be needed for much of the year. Here in New Mexico, we get hordes of
 grasshoppers that can decimate a garden - they even denuded my saplings
 last year - but chickens are little miracle machines that rapidly
 transform grasshoppers into eggs, fertilizer and free-range poultry.
 I am still sorting through the various city ordinances to see if I can
 do it, but I would like a backyard chicken coop myself.

 Lee

 Jim Cathey wrote:
  It'll be cheaper to buy eggs than to buy commercial chicken
  feed, which is nutritionally balanced for layers.
  There was an article in Mother Earth News recently which found that
  free range
  or pastured hens (lots of protein in those bugs, and chickens provide
  free bug
  and grub control) produced significantly more nutritious eggs than
  commercial
  eggs.
 
  I was referring to raising chickens on a city lot.  I doubt there's
  enough range to feed them entirely that way.  So you'll be buying
  something to feed them.  If they're not sufficiently fed, including
  all necessary proteins and vitamins, they won't lay.
 
  I don't get it.  How is $.19/dozen more expensive than buying eggs
  from the
  store?  Local egg prices generally start at $2.00/dozen and head on up
 
  They're not.  It was an unrelated factoid, I was trying to point out
  that a large-scale chicken factory is obviously cost-effective, whereas
  small-scale is not, really.
 
  Give it a whirl, sure.  But don't be surprised if it's not
  as easy or economical as it sounds.  It's also a PITA, and any
  livestock owner is tied to their property.  Hard to take a vacation,
  etc.
 
  -- Jim
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Zoltan Finks]

I was gonna mention the dog angle.

I know that some dogs are chicken killers. I suspect my Dobie might be one.
In fact I worry that he might be a cat killer. NO, this is not because he
has ever killed a cat. It's because I've read in William Koehler's (spelling
of name? too lazy to go look it up) book that most dogs would be put in
their place by cats, but some are genuine killers of felines. And I don't
see any indication in my Dobie that he is the former.

BTW the late Mr. Koehler's solution to a chicken-killing dog is to tie a
dead chicken around its neck and leave it there for a few weeks or so. Boy
would that never fly today (again with another unintended pun).

Brian

Tom wrote:They are also incredibly dirty - also from first hand observation
-
inlaws had a dog.
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Zoltan Finks]

Thanks, Clay for the info!

Also a little tidbit that I hear recently from someone who lives here on the
Island: She said that there was a tall evergreen tree that fell over. An
eagle's nest was found along with numerous cat collars. We do always have an
abundance of missing cat posters up around here. Coyotes may contribute too
I suppose.

Brian

Clay wrote:Coyote, racoon, eagles and other predators love to snag a
chicken.
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Jim Cathey]

 BTW the late Mr. Koehler's solution to a chicken-killing dog is to tie 
 a
 dead chicken around its neck and leave it there for a few weeks or so. 
 Boy
 would that never fly today (again with another unintended pun).

We did that once.  As I recall it didn't really work.  Get rid
of the dog, or the chickens.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Redghost]

Now Jim, that is a fine example of the welfare state effect on  
citizens.  All cooped up and no need to think, they just go on  
looking for the hand out, dropping dead once things change.

Actually Wilcox is a great operation and nothing like the tyson or  
purdue farms.  I understand there are major changes coming for wilcox  
and the relationship with costco.  I think I read in the paper where  
it was getting broken up.

My hens have to fend for themselves and find ample fodder and water  
around the yard so that occasional oversight in keeping the feeder  
and watering stations full are not huge issues.  Same theory one  
would give to one of those little yap dogs or a cat.

clay




On 27 Feb 2008, at 21:18, Jim Cathey wrote:

 Store chickens are not happy chickens.  They are more like crack
 whore chickens forced to pop out eggs under duress.

 My father-in-law was general manager (now retired) at Wilcox
 Farms, a family-owned crack-hen-whore outfit that supplies
 milk and eggs to Costco here in WA.  I've been on the tour.
 No duress or force is applied.  Spent hens go to Campbell's.

 One of his favorite stories about how smart chickens are is
 from once when they were inoculating chickens.  Easy way was
 to move the chicken one cage over as you went down the line.
 That way you didn't forget where you left off.  After they
 did this the chickens all stopped laying, etc.  Turns out
 they were thirsting to death.  Couldn't figure out that the
 water was now on the other side of the cage.  (Two spigots
 out of a waterer at the corner of every other cage.)  They
 shifted the chickens back over one cage and all was well
 again.

 -- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Redghost]

I have found that if the dog will kill a child, it would kill a  
chicken, so you acclimate them much the same way.  Have the dog  
exposed to the  chickens as they grow and it may decide that they are  
part of his pack as well as chickens figuring the dog is a really  
ugly rooster.  If the dog is a breed meant to shepherd it will do  
that, if bred to attack, will do that.

clay

On 28 Feb 2008, at 04:54, Zoltan Finks wrote:

 I was gonna mention the dog angle.

 I know that some dogs are chicken killers. I suspect my Dobie might  
 be one.
 In fact I worry that he might be a cat killer. NO, this is not  
 because he
 has ever killed a cat. It's because I've read in William Koehler's  
 (spelling
 of name? too lazy to go look it up) book that most dogs would be  
 put in
 their place by cats, but some are genuine killers of felines. And I  
 don't
 see any indication in my Dobie that he is the former.

 BTW the late Mr. Koehler's solution to a chicken-killing dog is to  
 tie a
 dead chicken around its neck and leave it there for a few weeks or  
 so. Boy
 would that never fly today (again with another unintended pun).

 Brian

 Tom wrote:They are also incredibly dirty - also from first hand  
 observation
 -
 inlaws had a dog.
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Redghost]

We have a number of breeding pairs of eagle near me.  I applaud the  
occasional missing cat or yap dog.  Not so happy with the huge eagle  
dropping on the roof of the car.

A chicken will need the same care one of the small pets would, but  
are smarter about looking out for danger than dogs or cats.  That is  
why they are chicken.

clay

On 28 Feb 2008, at 05:04, Zoltan Finks wrote:

 Thanks, Clay for the info!

 Also a little tidbit that I hear recently from someone who lives  
 here on the
 Island: She said that there was a tall evergreen tree that fell  
 over. An
 eagle's nest was found along with numerous cat collars. We do  
 always have an
 abundance of missing cat posters up around here. Coyotes may  
 contribute too
 I suppose.

 Brian

 Clay wrote:Coyote, racoon, eagles and other predators love to snag a
 chicken.
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Zoltan Finks]

Gosh, I hope that a chicken killer or a cat killer would not automatically
be a child killer.
And I'm glad you mentioned breeding rather than training. I hear too much of
the assertion that a dog is what you make him.

Another thing to consider along with a dog's breeding are the individual
variations in personality among dogs. You can have a strict breeding
program, and even so, the individual dogs have different tendencies. This is
why I evaluate each dog without too many presuppositions.

A good herding-type dog can still be a killer of its flock animals.

Brian

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Redghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I have found that if the dog will kill a child, it would kill a
 chicken, so you acclimate them much the same way.  Have the dog
 exposed to the  chickens as they grow and it may decide that they are
 part of his pack as well as chickens figuring the dog is a really
 ugly rooster.  If the dog is a breed meant to shepherd it will do
 that, if bred to attack, will do that.

 clay

 On 28 Feb 2008, at 04:54, Zoltan Finks wrote:

  I was gonna mention the dog angle.
 
  I know that some dogs are chicken killers. I suspect my Dobie might
  be one.
  In fact I worry that he might be a cat killer. NO, this is not
  because he
  has ever killed a cat. It's because I've read in William Koehler's
  (spelling
  of name? too lazy to go look it up) book that most dogs would be
  put in
  their place by cats, but some are genuine killers of felines. And I
  don't
  see any indication in my Dobie that he is the former.
 
  BTW the late Mr. Koehler's solution to a chicken-killing dog is to
  tie a
  dead chicken around its neck and leave it there for a few weeks or
  so. Boy
  would that never fly today (again with another unintended pun).
 
  Brian
 
  Tom wrote:They are also incredibly dirty - also from first hand
  observation
  -
  inlaws had a dog.
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[OK Don]

Our dog, half Briard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Briard), killed two
ducks before he learned not to do that. I rubbed his nose in the dead
duck and swatted him a few times. He didn't like negative attention,
and never killed another duck. he did try to herd (or chase - I'm not
sure which) the ducks for a long time, which they didn't like.

  Another thing to consider along with a dog's breeding are the individual
  variations in personality among dogs. You can have a strict breeding
  program, and even so, the individual dogs have different tendencies. This is
  why I evaluate each dog without too many presuppositions.

  A good herding-type dog can still be a killer of its flock animals.

  Brian

-- 
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
-Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Redghost]

We can have pigs and goats in town.  Seattle is such a weird place

clay

On 23 Feb 2008, at 12:48, E M wrote:

 Lucky guy, wish I lived in a place that allowed a few such animals.

 Ed
 300E

 On 23/02/2008, Redghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 sorry for late reply

 I keep chickens.  Small city yard and this is about all that fits.
 Great for allergy prone kids too.

 They feel.  both pain and emotion.  Chickens are very loving birds
 when given love from the start.  They can become feral and lose that
 loving feeling, but I raise mine from peeps and there is nothing
 comes closer to holding a chicken and petting her as she cuddles up
 on you.  Well, maybe a new baby comes close.

 Chickens will imprint on their caregiver and being social animals,
 will take you into the flock as head chicken in charge.  At least I
 am papa chicken.  They also are able to select who they want to
 associate with.  A chicken will decide that certain folks are just
 wrong, but it is individual to the bird and not a flock thing.  My
 birds are not fond of my youngest, and one hen is pretty unhappy with
 me, but adores my oldest boy.

 go figure

 clay


 On 14 Feb 2008, at 09:32, andrew strasfogel wrote:

 Not sure about feelings but they certainly feel pain.

 O

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens and farms

[E M]

I always liked the idea of a small gentleman's farm.  Just a couple of
each.  Have a nice modern barn, set up with the same attention to detail we
give our garages.  Proper stalls and pens, area to wash the animals, similar
to some of the nice horse stables.  I have no desire to eat any of them, I
just enjoy being around them and watching them walk around in the fields.
Kind of relaxing.  Good excuse to get a Unimog too, to haul the feed around
in. And an old restored Porsche tractor.  Yeah, I have it all worked out in
my head. ;-)

Ed
300E

On 27/02/2008, Redghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 We can have pigs and goats in town.  Seattle is such a weird place

 clay

 On 23 Feb 2008, at 12:48, E M wrote:

  Lucky guy, wish I lived in a place that allowed a few such animals.
 
  Ed
  300E
 
  On 23/02/2008, Redghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  sorry for late reply
 
  I keep chickens.  Small city yard and this is about all that fits.
  Great for allergy prone kids too.
 
  They feel.  both pain and emotion.  Chickens are very loving birds
  when given love from the start.  They can become feral and lose that
  loving feeling, but I raise mine from peeps and there is nothing
  comes closer to holding a chicken and petting her as she cuddles up
  on you.  Well, maybe a new baby comes close.
 
  Chickens will imprint on their caregiver and being social animals,
  will take you into the flock as head chicken in charge.  At least I
  am papa chicken.  They also are able to select who they want to
  associate with.  A chicken will decide that certain folks are just
  wrong, but it is individual to the bird and not a flock thing.  My
  birds are not fond of my youngest, and one hen is pretty unhappy with
  me, but adores my oldest boy.
 
  go figure
 
  clay
 
 
  On 14 Feb 2008, at 09:32, andrew strasfogel wrote:
 
  Not sure about feelings but they certainly feel pain.
 
  O
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Redghost]

Brian,

head for the closest feed store and ask when the peeps arrive.  They  
should be about ready to show up any day.

For peeps (the little yellow fur balls fresh out of an egg) you need  
a safe warm place for them to grow large enough to toss outside.   
Takes seven or eight weeks.  I started with a low cardboard box  
18x34x18 tall and for the first few days left it uncovered, since the  
peeps are not really flying around.  Get a cover of screening to keep  
them inside once they can hop out.

While they grow, you can build them a chicken home.  Buy a book on  
raising chicken at the feed store.  There are some prefab homes or  
others that are used to let the chickens work your lawn.  Move it  
every day and they hunt for bugs and are fully protected inside a  
mesh cage.  I free range mine and they come home to roost at night.

You need an IR lamp to keep them warm, a watering dish and some chick  
starter.  I use pine shavings since they do not smell strong like  
cedar.  These things poop a storm, so you need to clean the box daily  
giving fresh food and water.  The lamp is used to keep their home at  
around 95*F for a week, then drop it to 90F next week.  Then 10F  
lower each week until you hit room temp or 65F and outdoor temps are   
at 65F for most of the day.

You need to get at least two or three, so that they are not lonely  
and have a flock.  I go for four at a time because there are bound to  
be cockerels in the lot and you get to eat them or pawn them off on  
farmers once they decide to crow.  Roosters are usually larger and  
more confident than a hen as chicks.

With all your land, you can free range your flock.  Best thing to do  
is hold the peeps every day, cooing at them, talking to them.   
Accustomed to your touch and voice they will come running when you  
are around.   Let them grow large enough go outside on spring sunny  
days to roam while you sit close and protect them.  You are the  
mother hen who they will look to for protection.  Do this regularly  
and in varied spots in the yard and they will learn what is their  
yard.

Coyote, racoon, eagles and other predators love to snag a chicken.   
If they have a safe place to roost at night and a box to leave you  
eggs, the hens are happy as can be.  If there are dogs or cats  
around, a full size chicken can usually handle herself and will give  
the critters something to think about next time.  Chicken will eat  
anything that does not eat it first.  And having seen Jurassic Park,  
these things are really miniature velocaraptors.  Love to eat meat.

Right now I have three hens.  They all lay for me and I have over a  
dozen eggs a week to get rid of.  It takes 22 weeks for the hens to  
grow old enough to lay an egg.  No need or desire for a rooster  
unless you want to breed more chickens.  Hens will lay an egg most  
days as long as there is enough ambient light for them to think it is  
late spring or summer.  Once it gets too dark, they stop.  Then start  
again when light returns.

A hen ovulates until she goes through the change.  JUST LIKE A  
WOMAN.  No need for men for women to pop an ovum out.  Mate a hen and  
she will hold sperm for 90 days and lay fertilized eggs.  When winter  
comes and they stop, those fertile eggs sit there until spring.  Then  
you get more peeps.

Fresh eggs are exceedingly eggy compared to store bought.  Have a  
plate of fresh egg and you know the junk from the store is  
cardboard.  Much like fresh out of the oven bread is nothing like  
wonder.

clay


On 25 Feb 2008, at 01:03, Zoltan Finks wrote:

 Only recently I've had a very mild interest in the thought of keeping
 chickens. So you are allowed to do it in the middle of the city?  
 Then we
 could probably get away with it on our 1.3 acres. We are only 2  
 miles from
 downtown but it's a pretty rural area.
 I'm surprised to hear of the social nature of the birds, and what  
 nice pets
 they make.

 Do you use them for eggs? I'd love the cheap source of food (no pun
 intended).

 We had a friend back in MN that had several types of animals. He  
 brought
 some duck eggs in occasionally. They tasted a bit more eggy than  
 chicken
 eggs, but I liked that. They were a bit larger too.

 What are the negatives or hard parts about keeping chickens? How  
 many do you
 have?

 So chickens lay eggs on their own without being mated by a male?  
 May be a
 stupid question, but I grew up a city boy.

 Brian


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Redghost]

Store eggs, even farmers market egg will be cheaper.  With free  
ranging chickens, the cost to feed is lower, and they eat (LOVE)  
table scraps.  Some vegan weenies do not properly feed the hens and  
this could lead to issues.  They need lots of protein, calcium, oats,  
and grains to be healthy.  Gather your table scraps all day long and  
put it out with your chickens in the morning.  Gone really fast and  
reduces garbage or disposer use.

AS for getting eggs.  You have set up a laying box in their coop or  
house.  THere are some chicken condos that are popular here, but a  
really simple sheet of plywood size place with a roost and box is  
great.  Once they are large enough to go out in the weather, you keep  
them locked up in the coop for two weeks, so they know where to  
return to.  Then let them roam.  Keep an eye out for where they go  
during the day over the summer and come fall, you should be able to  
figure out when and where they are dropping eggs.  Lock them back up  
for another week or two, and they will take to the box.  Where they  
will return at laying time from there on out.

Move them though and you end up going egg hunting again.

clay




On 25 Feb 2008, at 07:40, Jim Cathey wrote:

 So chickens lay eggs on their own without being mated by a male?

 Yes.  If fed well and happy, and if they're good stock,
 they'll lay.  An egg a day at best.  You'll have to find
 them if they're running loose.  If penned it'll be easier.
 But they don't always lay, and for a whole lot of reasons.

 It'll be cheaper to buy eggs than to buy commercial chicken
 feed, which is nutritionally balanced for layers.  The
 employee price for eggs at the egg farm I know of is
 $0.19/doz.  I presume that's about the direct cost of
 the feed on that scale.

 -- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Redghost]

Commercial hen huts are NASTY

The little buggers are de-beaked, crammed in really tight quarters  
until they are ready to lay, pumped full of drugs, then forced to  
live in a tiny cage only large enough to stand and poop in.  Lights  
are on 24/7 so they will lay all year round.  Most layers at a good  
farm or free ranging will lay for four or more years.  A hot house  
hen will live maybe two years, never see daylight, have lost her  
feathers a few months after she first lays and break your heart to see.

A bunch of peeps from the feed store are not the generic white  
chickens, but heirloom or just plain interesting to look at.  Lots  
smarter too.  They are superior pets since they live outside, keep  
bugs down, live around 20 years and do not bark or need to go for a  
walk.  Also gets the neighbors really interested in your chickens.  I  
have folks walking past the house letting me know there is a chicken  
standing in the middle of the road and I should go save it.  I have  
to tell these nice folks it is not my hen, but one of the other half  
dozen neighbors' who have hens.

clay



On 25 Feb 2008, at 08:28, Mitch Haley wrote:

 Jim Cathey wrote:
 It'll be cheaper to buy eggs than to buy commercial chicken
 feed, which is nutritionally balanced for layers.

 There was an article in Mother Earth News recently which found that  
 free range
 or pastured hens (lots of protein in those bugs, and chickens  
 provide free bug
 and grub control) produced significantly more nutritious eggs than  
 commercial
 eggs.
 http://www.motherearthnews.com/Real-Food/2007-10-01/Tests-Reveal- 
 Healthier-Eggs.aspx

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Redghost]

Store chickens are not happy chickens.  They are more like crack  
whore chickens forced to pop out eggs under duress.

The feed cost for a large farm raised operation comes to around $0.20  
for dozen eggs.  If you have 100 chickens, you are going to be  
getting 80-90 eggs a day.  After 7 days, that is way too much egg.

Fresh eggs will keep out of the icebox just fine for a week.  Storing  
600 eggs in the icebox each week becomes onerous, so you get rid of  
them at pretty close to cost.  The factory chicken is a commodity and  
her eggs cost much more since they are trucked, marketed, and messed  
with far more than a local egg.  All those humans have to eat, so  
your store egg is all middle man, no taste, and bad for the environment.

clay





On 25 Feb 2008, at 11:28, andrew strasfogel wrote:

 I don't get it.  How is $.19/dozen more expensive than buying eggs  
 from the
 store?  Local egg prices generally start at $2.00/dozen and head on up
 toward $5, depending on whether the hens are given their shiatsu  
 massages
 daily or weekly.

 On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:40 AM, Jim Cathey  
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 So chickens lay eggs on their own without being mated by a male?

 Yes.  If fed well and happy, and if they're good stock,
 they'll lay.  An egg a day at best.  You'll have to find
 them if they're running loose.  If penned it'll be easier.
 But they don't always lay, and for a whole lot of reasons.

 It'll be cheaper to buy eggs than to buy commercial chicken
 feed, which is nutritionally balanced for layers.  The
 employee price for eggs at the egg farm I know of is
 $0.19/doz.  I presume that's about the direct cost of
 the feed on that scale.

 -- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Redghost]

Fuel costs.  Keeping the lights on, the factory heated and moving all  
that egg gets really expensive.   Did you notice how expensive it was  
to run X-mas lights this year?

clay



On 25 Feb 2008, at 11:46, Zoltan Finks wrote:

 Now is that true of eggs at $.69 like they have been for so many  
 years? Or
 is that true of eggs at $3.29 - $4.00 like the are now?

 And what in the world has happened to cause eggs to jump 4 - 5  
 times in
 price recently?

 Brian

 Jim wrote:It'll be cheaper to buy eggs than to buy commercial chicken
 feed, which is nutritionally balanced for layers.  The
 employee price for eggs at the egg farm I know of is
 $0.19/doz.  I presume that's about the direct cost of
 the feed on that scale.
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Redghost]

That is true, hard to have a holiday away from home unless you have  
somebody come and make sure the food is out, fresh water is there and  
all the eggs are collected.

Chicken poop is great for adding to the compost heap.  I had to quit  
that because the yard is too small to handle all the coop sweepings  
in time and my garden was a bit too rich for growing veggies.   
Fireplace ash, chicken poop, and small clean yard clippings composts  
all sorts of stuff well.   Great for attracting bugs for chickens to  
eat.

clay

On 25 Feb 2008, at 22:10, Jim Cathey wrote:

 It'll be cheaper to buy eggs than to buy commercial chicken
 feed, which is nutritionally balanced for layers.

 There was an article in Mother Earth News recently which found that
 free range
 or pastured hens (lots of protein in those bugs, and chickens provide
 free bug
 and grub control) produced significantly more nutritious eggs than
 commercial
 eggs.

 I was referring to raising chickens on a city lot.  I doubt there's
 enough range to feed them entirely that way.  So you'll be buying
 something to feed them.  If they're not sufficiently fed, including
 all necessary proteins and vitamins, they won't lay.

 I don't get it.  How is $.19/dozen more expensive than buying eggs
 from the
 store?  Local egg prices generally start at $2.00/dozen and head  
 on up

 They're not.  It was an unrelated factoid, I was trying to point out
 that a large-scale chicken factory is obviously cost-effective,  
 whereas
 small-scale is not, really.

 Give it a whirl, sure.  But don't be surprised if it's not
 as easy or economical as it sounds.  It's also a PITA, and any
 livestock owner is tied to their property.  Hard to take a vacation,
 etc.

 -- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Redghost]

I always come back to the cost to keep the pet.  No licensing  
nonsense every year, or shots.  Costs $3 to get the peep, about $30  
for 6 months of bagged feed for four chickens.

Compare that to a dog or cat!  Canned food costs a bunch, kitty  
litter, kibble, toys, furniture repair, stains on carpet, dug up  
lawns, and NO FOOD at the end of the day for your table.  Or goodwill  
by giving excess eggs to neighbors, teachers, friends.

clay


On 26 Feb 2008, at 05:18, Lee Einer wrote:

 Chickens have multiple benefits, and there is a veritable explosion in
 home urban chicken raising for this reason. There is a reason why
 chicken feed is a slang expression for cheap. And chicken feed  
 may not
 be needed for much of the year. Here in New Mexico, we get hordes of
 grasshoppers that can decimate a garden - they even denuded my  
 saplings
 last year - but chickens are little miracle machines that rapidly
 transform grasshoppers into eggs, fertilizer and free-range poultry.
 I am still sorting through the various city ordinances to see if I can
 do it, but I would like a backyard chicken coop myself.

 Lee

 Jim Cathey wrote:
 It'll be cheaper to buy eggs than to buy commercial chicken
 feed, which is nutritionally balanced for layers.
 There was an article in Mother Earth News recently which found that
 free range
 or pastured hens (lots of protein in those bugs, and chickens  
 provide
 free bug
 and grub control) produced significantly more nutritious eggs than
 commercial
 eggs.

 I was referring to raising chickens on a city lot.  I doubt there's
 enough range to feed them entirely that way.  So you'll be buying
 something to feed them.  If they're not sufficiently fed, including
 all necessary proteins and vitamins, they won't lay.

 I don't get it.  How is $.19/dozen more expensive than buying eggs
 from the
 store?  Local egg prices generally start at $2.00/dozen and head  
 on up

 They're not.  It was an unrelated factoid, I was trying to point out
 that a large-scale chicken factory is obviously cost-effective,  
 whereas
 small-scale is not, really.

 Give it a whirl, sure.  But don't be surprised if it's not
 as easy or economical as it sounds.  It's also a PITA, and any
 livestock owner is tied to their property.  Hard to take a vacation,
 etc.

 -- Jim


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 -- 

 Lee

 If you would be unloved and forgotten, be reasonable. - Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[E M]

I find this all pretty interesting, and a real education for a city boy.
Think I'm going to see if  I can find a local farmers market in town.

Ed
300E

On 27/02/2008, Redghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Store chickens are not happy chickens.  They are more like crack
 whore chickens forced to pop out eggs under duress.

 The feed cost for a large farm raised operation comes to around $0.20
 for dozen eggs.  If you have 100 chickens, you are going to be
 getting 80-90 eggs a day.  After 7 days, that is way too much egg.

 Fresh eggs will keep out of the icebox just fine for a week.  Storing
 600 eggs in the icebox each week becomes onerous, so you get rid of
 them at pretty close to cost.  The factory chicken is a commodity and
 her eggs cost much more since they are trucked, marketed, and messed
 with far more than a local egg.  All those humans have to eat, so
 your store egg is all middle man, no taste, and bad for the environment.

 clay





 On 25 Feb 2008, at 11:28, andrew strasfogel wrote:

  I don't get it.  How is $.19/dozen more expensive than buying eggs
  from the
  store?  Local egg prices generally start at $2.00/dozen and head on up
  toward $5, depending on whether the hens are given their shiatsu
  massages
  daily or weekly.
 
  On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:40 AM, Jim Cathey
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  So chickens lay eggs on their own without being mated by a male?
 
  Yes.  If fed well and happy, and if they're good stock,
  they'll lay.  An egg a day at best.  You'll have to find
  them if they're running loose.  If penned it'll be easier.
  But they don't always lay, and for a whole lot of reasons.
 
  It'll be cheaper to buy eggs than to buy commercial chicken
  feed, which is nutritionally balanced for layers.  The
  employee price for eggs at the egg farm I know of is
  $0.19/doz.  I presume that's about the direct cost of
  the feed on that scale.
 
  -- Jim
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Jim Cathey]

 Store chickens are not happy chickens.  They are more like crack
 whore chickens forced to pop out eggs under duress.

My father-in-law was general manager (now retired) at Wilcox
Farms, a family-owned crack-hen-whore outfit that supplies
milk and eggs to Costco here in WA.  I've been on the tour.
No duress or force is applied.  Spent hens go to Campbell's.

One of his favorite stories about how smart chickens are is
from once when they were inoculating chickens.  Easy way was
to move the chicken one cage over as you went down the line.
That way you didn't forget where you left off.  After they
did this the chickens all stopped laying, etc.  Turns out
they were thirsting to death.  Couldn't figure out that the
water was now on the other side of the cage.  (Two spigots
out of a waterer at the corner of every other cage.)  They
shifted the chickens back over one cage and all was well
again.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Timothy Robinson]

Used to have a 'lil girlfriend who's family own a chicken farm. She often
talked about getting the Tyson check. Wasn't pleasant dinner conversation
to hear her talk of how when she was a toddler how proficient she became at
debeaking chicks.

A few decades ago a Tyson processing plant in Hamlet, NC made national news
when a hydraulic line burst and caused a fire. Several employees (mostly
Hispanic, some illegal) were burnt alive in the fire because the emergency
exits had been chained closed. Seems the plant management had done that to
prevent employee theft of some of the processed chicken.

 From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:18:46 -0800
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens
 
 Store chickens are not happy chickens.  They are more like crack
 whore chickens forced to pop out eggs under duress.
 
 My father-in-law was general manager (now retired) at Wilcox
 Farms, a family-owned crack-hen-whore outfit that supplies
 milk and eggs to Costco here in WA.  I've been on the tour.
 No duress or force is applied.  Spent hens go to Campbell's.
 
 One of his favorite stories about how smart chickens are is
 from once when they were inoculating chickens.  Easy way was
 to move the chicken one cage over as you went down the line.
 That way you didn't forget where you left off.  After they
 did this the chickens all stopped laying, etc.  Turns out
 they were thirsting to death.  Couldn't figure out that the
 water was now on the other side of the cage.  (Two spigots
 out of a waterer at the corner of every other cage.)  They
 shifted the chickens back over one cage and all was well
 again.
 
 -- Jim
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Lee Einer]

Chickens have multiple benefits, and there is a veritable explosion in
home urban chicken raising for this reason. There is a reason why
chicken feed is a slang expression for cheap. And chicken feed may not
be needed for much of the year. Here in New Mexico, we get hordes of
grasshoppers that can decimate a garden - they even denuded my saplings
last year - but chickens are little miracle machines that rapidly
transform grasshoppers into eggs, fertilizer and free-range poultry.
I am still sorting through the various city ordinances to see if I can
do it, but I would like a backyard chicken coop myself.

Lee

Jim Cathey wrote:
 It'll be cheaper to buy eggs than to buy commercial chicken
 feed, which is nutritionally balanced for layers.
 There was an article in Mother Earth News recently which found that 
 free range
 or pastured hens (lots of protein in those bugs, and chickens provide 
 free bug
 and grub control) produced significantly more nutritious eggs than 
 commercial
 eggs.
 
 I was referring to raising chickens on a city lot.  I doubt there's
 enough range to feed them entirely that way.  So you'll be buying
 something to feed them.  If they're not sufficiently fed, including
 all necessary proteins and vitamins, they won't lay.
 
 I don't get it.  How is $.19/dozen more expensive than buying eggs 
 from the
 store?  Local egg prices generally start at $2.00/dozen and head on up
 
 They're not.  It was an unrelated factoid, I was trying to point out
 that a large-scale chicken factory is obviously cost-effective, whereas
 small-scale is not, really.
 
 Give it a whirl, sure.  But don't be surprised if it's not
 as easy or economical as it sounds.  It's also a PITA, and any
 livestock owner is tied to their property.  Hard to take a vacation,
 etc.
 
 -- Jim
 
 
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-- 

Lee

If you would be unloved and forgotten, be reasonable. - Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Rich Thomas]

I was driving in the countryside of NC last week, and there were 2 
roosters up ahead of me, one on either side of the road, appeared to be 
squaring off on each other..  I was thinking, just about the time I get 
there one of them is going to decide to cross the road (and I asked 
Why?),  Sho'nuff, just as I got to them, one darted right out in front 
of me.  I swerved just enough to miss having a fresh chicken dinner.

--R

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Tom Hargrave]

I like chickens, they taste good.

They are also incredibly stupid - from first hand observation - inlaws
used to raise them.

They are also incredibly dirty - also from first hand observation -
inlaws had a dog.

Tom
www.kegkits.com

- Original Message -
From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: 2/26/08 2:59 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
CC: 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

I was driving in the countryside of NC last week, and there were 2 
roosters up ahead of me, one on either side of the road, appeared to be 
squaring off on each other..  I was thinking, just about the time I get 
there one of them is going to decide to cross the road (and I asked 
Why?),  Sho'nuff, just as I got to them, one darted right out in front 
of me.  I swerved just enough to miss having a fresh chicken dinner.

--R

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date:
2/26/2008 9:08 AM
 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Timothy Robinson]

About 10 years ago I had this bright idea to become Ole MacDonald. I
ordered chicks, never to pass up a bargain, what was I thinking to order
100? Received 103 of three breeds by USPS. That first week a blizzard struck
and was without power, still didn't lose one.

They were amusing. I actually made pets out of them having socialized
since they were chicks. I let them free range in the back pasture. My chow
(dog) became very protective of them and herded them, fending off other
critters. I set up an electric fence, not to keep them but as a safety zone
for them.

Soon that area was void of any grass. I couldn't go outside without my pet
rooster perching on my shoulder. They began laying eggs underneath the
garage where they roosted... I had this aversion to eggs not out of a
carton and mental images kept me from collecting them. Soon I had young
additions to the flock.

Then came the bald eagle which each morning swooped down and selected his
daily meal. Squawk!! I felt like I was living in a cartoon. That rooster
knew just where my bedroom window was when he began to crow at daybreak. He
would perch on the open sill.

I eventually found homes for all of the birds.

 From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 14:08:58 -0600
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens
 
 I like chickens, they taste good.
 
 They are also incredibly stupid - from first hand observation - inlaws
 used to raise them.
 
 They are also incredibly dirty - also from first hand observation -
 inlaws had a dog.
 
 Tom
 www.kegkits.com
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Received: 2/26/08 2:59 PM
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 CC: 
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens
 
 I was driving in the countryside of NC last week, and there were 2
 roosters up ahead of me, one on either side of the road, appeared to be
 squaring off on each other..  I was thinking, just about the time I get
 there one of them is going to decide to cross the road (and I asked
 Why?),  Sho'nuff, just as I got to them, one darted right out in front
 of me.  I swerved just enough to miss having a fresh chicken dinner.
 
 --R
 
 ___
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 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date:
 2/26/2008 9:08 AM
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[OK Don]

We kept Easter Ducks for years when the kids were little. The flock
got up to 8 at one time, but was usually was 4. We'd let a few sit on
nests, so ended up with four or five generations. You had to let the
eggs age a week or two before they worked well for baking, and no one
liked the taste otherwise, so my wife quit collecting them. Every once
in a while we'd have to scoop up lots of eggs, and some would explode
with very smelly results. The kids played baseball with them once -
that was fun to watch! Since each one was named, the kids wouldn't let
me butcher them. They still won't eat duck.
The ducks were entertaining pets, kept the insects down in the back
yard, ate ticks off the dog (though not all of them), but we didn't
replace them when the last one died (one lived to be 11 years old).
To quote the punch line to a story, Life begins when the dog dies and
the kids leave home.


-- 
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
-Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Zoltan Finks]

Only recently I've had a very mild interest in the thought of keeping
chickens. So you are allowed to do it in the middle of the city? Then we
could probably get away with it on our 1.3 acres. We are only 2 miles from
downtown but it's a pretty rural area.
I'm surprised to hear of the social nature of the birds, and what nice pets
they make.

Do you use them for eggs? I'd love the cheap source of food (no pun
intended).

We had a friend back in MN that had several types of animals. He brought
some duck eggs in occasionally. They tasted a bit more eggy than chicken
eggs, but I liked that. They were a bit larger too.

What are the negatives or hard parts about keeping chickens? How many do you
have?

So chickens lay eggs on their own without being mated by a male? May be a
stupid question, but I grew up a city boy.

Brian

On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Redghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 sorry for late reply

 I keep chickens.  Small city yard and this is about all that fits.
 Great for allergy prone kids too.

 They feel.  both pain and emotion.  Chickens are very loving birds
 when given love from the start.  They can become feral and lose that
 loving feeling, but I raise mine from peeps and there is nothing
 comes closer to holding a chicken and petting her as she cuddles up
 on you.  Well, maybe a new baby comes close.

 Chickens will imprint on their caregiver and being social animals,
 will take you into the flock as head chicken in charge.  At least I
 am papa chicken.  They also are able to select who they want to
 associate with.  A chicken will decide that certain folks are just
 wrong, but it is individual to the bird and not a flock thing.  My
 birds are not fond of my youngest, and one hen is pretty unhappy with
 me, but adores my oldest boy.

 go figure

 clay


 On 14 Feb 2008, at 09:32, andrew strasfogel wrote:

  Not sure about feelings but they certainly feel pain.
 
  O

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Jim Cathey]

 So chickens lay eggs on their own without being mated by a male?

Yes.  If fed well and happy, and if they're good stock,
they'll lay.  An egg a day at best.  You'll have to find
them if they're running loose.  If penned it'll be easier.
But they don't always lay, and for a whole lot of reasons.

It'll be cheaper to buy eggs than to buy commercial chicken
feed, which is nutritionally balanced for layers.  The
employee price for eggs at the egg farm I know of is
$0.19/doz.  I presume that's about the direct cost of
the feed on that scale.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Mitch Haley]

Jim Cathey wrote:
 It'll be cheaper to buy eggs than to buy commercial chicken
 feed, which is nutritionally balanced for layers.

There was an article in Mother Earth News recently which found that free range
or pastured hens (lots of protein in those bugs, and chickens provide free bug
and grub control) produced significantly more nutritious eggs than commercial
eggs. 
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Real-Food/2007-10-01/Tests-Reveal-Healthier-Eggs.aspx

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[andrew strasfogel]

I don't get it.  How is $.19/dozen more expensive than buying eggs from the
store?  Local egg prices generally start at $2.00/dozen and head on up
toward $5, depending on whether the hens are given their shiatsu massages
daily or weekly.

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:40 AM, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  So chickens lay eggs on their own without being mated by a male?

 Yes.  If fed well and happy, and if they're good stock,
 they'll lay.  An egg a day at best.  You'll have to find
 them if they're running loose.  If penned it'll be easier.
 But they don't always lay, and for a whole lot of reasons.

 It'll be cheaper to buy eggs than to buy commercial chicken
 feed, which is nutritionally balanced for layers.  The
 employee price for eggs at the egg farm I know of is
 $0.19/doz.  I presume that's about the direct cost of
 the feed on that scale.

 -- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Zoltan Finks]

Now is that true of eggs at $.69 like they have been for so many years? Or
is that true of eggs at $3.29 - $4.00 like the are now?

And what in the world has happened to cause eggs to jump 4 - 5 times in
price recently?

Brian

Jim wrote:It'll be cheaper to buy eggs than to buy commercial chicken
feed, which is nutritionally balanced for layers.  The
employee price for eggs at the egg farm I know of is
$0.19/doz.  I presume that's about the direct cost of
the feed on that scale.
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Jim Cathey]

 It'll be cheaper to buy eggs than to buy commercial chicken
 feed, which is nutritionally balanced for layers.

 There was an article in Mother Earth News recently which found that 
 free range
 or pastured hens (lots of protein in those bugs, and chickens provide 
 free bug
 and grub control) produced significantly more nutritious eggs than 
 commercial
 eggs.

I was referring to raising chickens on a city lot.  I doubt there's
enough range to feed them entirely that way.  So you'll be buying
something to feed them.  If they're not sufficiently fed, including
all necessary proteins and vitamins, they won't lay.

 I don't get it.  How is $.19/dozen more expensive than buying eggs 
 from the
 store?  Local egg prices generally start at $2.00/dozen and head on up

They're not.  It was an unrelated factoid, I was trying to point out
that a large-scale chicken factory is obviously cost-effective, whereas
small-scale is not, really.

Give it a whirl, sure.  But don't be surprised if it's not
as easy or economical as it sounds.  It's also a PITA, and any
livestock owner is tied to their property.  Hard to take a vacation,
etc.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Redghost]

sorry for late reply

I keep chickens.  Small city yard and this is about all that fits.   
Great for allergy prone kids too.

They feel.  both pain and emotion.  Chickens are very loving birds  
when given love from the start.  They can become feral and lose that  
loving feeling, but I raise mine from peeps and there is nothing  
comes closer to holding a chicken and petting her as she cuddles up  
on you.  Well, maybe a new baby comes close.

Chickens will imprint on their caregiver and being social animals,  
will take you into the flock as head chicken in charge.  At least I  
am papa chicken.  They also are able to select who they want to  
associate with.  A chicken will decide that certain folks are just  
wrong, but it is individual to the bird and not a flock thing.  My  
birds are not fond of my youngest, and one hen is pretty unhappy with  
me, but adores my oldest boy.

go figure

clay


On 14 Feb 2008, at 09:32, andrew strasfogel wrote:

 Not sure about feelings but they certainly feel pain.

 O

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[E M]

Lucky guy, wish I lived in a place that allowed a few such animals.

Ed
300E

On 23/02/2008, Redghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 sorry for late reply

 I keep chickens.  Small city yard and this is about all that fits.
 Great for allergy prone kids too.

 They feel.  both pain and emotion.  Chickens are very loving birds
 when given love from the start.  They can become feral and lose that
 loving feeling, but I raise mine from peeps and there is nothing
 comes closer to holding a chicken and petting her as she cuddles up
 on you.  Well, maybe a new baby comes close.

 Chickens will imprint on their caregiver and being social animals,
 will take you into the flock as head chicken in charge.  At least I
 am papa chicken.  They also are able to select who they want to
 associate with.  A chicken will decide that certain folks are just
 wrong, but it is individual to the bird and not a flock thing.  My
 birds are not fond of my youngest, and one hen is pretty unhappy with
 me, but adores my oldest boy.

 go figure

 clay


 On 14 Feb 2008, at 09:32, andrew strasfogel wrote:

  Not sure about feelings but they certainly feel pain.
 
  O

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Jim Cathey]

 Actually, I think that the more attributes a creature shares with 
 humans
 visually, the more sympathy we have for it.

It's not all that complicated.  The creatures that please us
we try not to eat so much.

Bad, bad Dog!  Curry time!

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Zoltan Finks]

This is more informative than you know.
No, I haven't interacted with a chicken. And I suppose my gauge of whether I
care about an animal's plight is how capable it is of suffering (at least as
we know it).

So if the chicken is a pretty mindless grunt creature then I feel less
sympathy toward them and the handling they receive in order to fuel
society's immense hunger for them.

I see it like this: There has to be a line somewhere. It's different for
each of us. Some folks are all broken up about the plight of every living
creature except, let's say, spiders. Or maybe they feel sympathy for
spiders, but not so much fleas and gnats. Or maybe they feel sympathy toward
gnats but not so much for, I don't know, slugs, or tadpoles, or germs or
something.

So it's hypocritical for people to express sympathy for slaughtered chickens
but not for the mosquito they swat off their arm.

For me: I guess I draw the line where the animal actually suffers. But how
do we really know if an animal suffers? We do not. So I figure let's use as
needed, but husband as best we can, the animals we've been given.

Truth told, I am not convinced that even dogs have feelings. Sure, they
exhibit signs that suggest they feel, but we don't know what those signs
really mean. They could simply be outward behaviors developed over the
centuries in order to elicit fortuitous responses from humans. This supports
survival. So when Rover gives you puppy dog eyes, you give him your pizza
crust. And when Fuzzy cowers when you come home and she's chewed your shoes,
you have increased sympathy on her.

Brian

On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 9:20 PM, Craig McCluskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:04:53 -0800 Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

   We used to feed chickens the carcasses or roast chicken we'd had for
   dinner. They loved it.
 
  They won't even wait for them to be cooked.  See what happens
  when you get an injured chicken in a flock.

 That's why de-beaking is common ...


 Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[andrew strasfogel]

Not sure about feelings but they certainly feel pain.

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 3:42 AM, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 This is more informative than you know.
 No, I haven't interacted with a chicken. And I suppose my gauge of whether
 I
 care about an animal's plight is how capable it is of suffering (at least
 as
 we know it).

 So if the chicken is a pretty mindless grunt creature then I feel less
 sympathy toward them and the handling they receive in order to fuel
 society's immense hunger for them.

 I see it like this: There has to be a line somewhere. It's different for
 each of us. Some folks are all broken up about the plight of every living
 creature except, let's say, spiders. Or maybe they feel sympathy for
 spiders, but not so much fleas and gnats. Or maybe they feel sympathy
 toward
 gnats but not so much for, I don't know, slugs, or tadpoles, or germs or
 something.

 So it's hypocritical for people to express sympathy for slaughtered
 chickens
 but not for the mosquito they swat off their arm.

 For me: I guess I draw the line where the animal actually suffers. But how
 do we really know if an animal suffers? We do not. So I figure let's use
 as
 needed, but husband as best we can, the animals we've been given.

 Truth told, I am not convinced that even dogs have feelings. Sure, they
 exhibit signs that suggest they feel, but we don't know what those signs
 really mean. They could simply be outward behaviors developed over the
 centuries in order to elicit fortuitous responses from humans. This
 supports
 survival. So when Rover gives you puppy dog eyes, you give him your pizza
 crust. And when Fuzzy cowers when you come home and she's chewed your
 shoes,
 you have increased sympathy on her.

 Brian

 On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 9:20 PM, Craig McCluskey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

  On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:04:53 -0800 Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
 
We used to feed chickens the carcasses or roast chicken we'd had for
dinner. They loved it.
  
   They won't even wait for them to be cooked.  See what happens
   when you get an injured chicken in a flock.
 
  That's why de-beaking is common ...
 
 
  Craig
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[R A Bennell]

Well, so far no chicken has tried to bite me on the back of the neck. BUT, 
chickens tend to be tasty when cooked.
Not sure about mosquitos given I have never tried to collect sufficient numbers 
to try cooking them.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not in favour of inhumane treatment of chickens. I 
think they should be dispatched
carefully and quickly and with the least trauma to themselves and others as 
possible.

On the other hand, I think that mosquitos should generally be dispatched in 
whatever manner works as we often have
way too many of them and they fail to treat me with the level of respect that I 
normally consider is acceptable.


Randy who won't have to worry about the mosquitos until it warms up a bit

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Wonko the Sane
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 1:11 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens


Squashing the mosquito that is drilling into the back of your neck is called
self defense.

Mosquito leaves me along, I leave him/her alone.

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 So it's hypocritical for people to express sympathy for slaughtered
 chickens
 but not for the mosquito they swat off their arm.




--
LT Don
http://don.homelinux.net/~don/

apt-get update
apt-get upgrade
The following packages will be replaced
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[John Robbins]

Allan Streib wrote:
 DDT works really well, we were on the verge of wiping out malaria
 until some folks decided that chickens (or some kind of bird) were
 more important than people.

Hasn't the effectiveness of DDT decreased over the years?  I don't think 
its banned everywhere, and I seem to remember some study saying that the 
dosage has been increasing without any decrease in mosquito deaths.  Its 
been a long time since I read that, and I have no recollection of any 
specifics.

John



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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Wonko the Sane]

Squashing the mosquito that is drilling into the back of your neck is called
self defense.

Mosquito leaves me along, I leave him/her alone.

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 So it's hypocritical for people to express sympathy for slaughtered
 chickens
 but not for the mosquito they swat off their arm.




-- 
LT Don
http://don.homelinux.net/~don/

apt-get update
apt-get upgrade
The following packages will be replaced
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Allan Streib]

R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On the other hand, I think that mosquitos should generally be
 dispatched in whatever manner works as we often have way too many of
 them and they fail to treat me with the level of respect that I
 normally consider is acceptable.

DDT works really well, we were on the verge of wiping out malaria
until some folks decided that chickens (or some kind of bird) were
more important than people.

-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Gary Hurst]

another example of the government creating more pain?

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 2:56 PM, R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I remember reading something not long back that suggested stopping the use
 of DDT was one of the worst things that
 has happened to 3rd world countries. We were afraid of what it might do to
 people so we stopped producing it.
 However, what the mosquitos do in many tropical countries is a whole lot
 worse for most people that the effects of
 DDT ever might be.

 Randy

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Allan Streib
 Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 1:48 PM
 To: Mercedes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens


 R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  On the other hand, I think that mosquitos should generally be
  dispatched in whatever manner works as we often have way too many of
  them and they fail to treat me with the level of respect that I
  normally consider is acceptable.

 DDT works really well, we were on the verge of wiping out malaria
 until some folks decided that chickens (or some kind of bird) were
 more important than people.

 --
 1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[R A Bennell]

I remember reading something not long back that suggested stopping the use of 
DDT was one of the worst things that
has happened to 3rd world countries. We were afraid of what it might do to 
people so we stopped producing it.
However, what the mosquitos do in many tropical countries is a whole lot worse 
for most people that the effects of
DDT ever might be.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Allan Streib
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 1:48 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens


R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On the other hand, I think that mosquitos should generally be
 dispatched in whatever manner works as we often have way too many of
 them and they fail to treat me with the level of respect that I
 normally consider is acceptable.

DDT works really well, we were on the verge of wiping out malaria
until some folks decided that chickens (or some kind of bird) were
more important than people.

--
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Mitch Haley]

On the news last night:
Somebody abandoned 60-70 chickens in a public school building after hours.
Left them food and water and free range in the hallways. School had to
be closed the day they found the chickens (and the accompanying mess).

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[R A Bennell]

The government wants to make you happy so it will be re-elected.

Do Gooders want to protect you from everything including yourself.

They whine at the government who then does something to shut them up in the 
hope that it will be seen as a positive
move.

Sort of like global warming and bio fuels etc. Somebody has to save you from 
yourself or you will just go ahead and
ruin the planet for everyone.
Of course, the people who rant about this stuff don't always know what they are 
talking about and some have a
vested interest in promoting their view.

And, once we ban something, it is difficult to admit erro and bring it back.

Randy with a jaded view in the GWN

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gary Hurst
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:04 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens


another example of the government creating more pain?

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 2:56 PM, R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I remember reading something not long back that suggested stopping the use
 of DDT was one of the worst things that
 has happened to 3rd world countries. We were afraid of what it might do to
 people so we stopped producing it.
 However, what the mosquitos do in many tropical countries is a whole lot
 worse for most people that the effects of
 DDT ever might be.

 Randy

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Allan Streib
 Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 1:48 PM
 To: Mercedes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens


 R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  On the other hand, I think that mosquitos should generally be
  dispatched in whatever manner works as we often have way too many of
  them and they fail to treat me with the level of respect that I
  normally consider is acceptable.

 DDT works really well, we were on the verge of wiping out malaria
 until some folks decided that chickens (or some kind of bird) were
 more important than people.

 --
 1983 300D

 ___
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[R A Bennell]

Not so sure that is an answer. Some of these folks have other positive benefits 
to society. 

Randy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gary Hurst
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:17 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens


yes, kill teh do gooders and achieve lasting happiness and peace

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 3:16 PM, R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The government wants to make you happy so it will be re-elected.

 Do Gooders want to protect you from everything including yourself.

 They whine at the government who then does something to shut them up in
 the hope that it will be seen as a positive
 move.

 Sort of like global warming and bio fuels etc. Somebody has to save you
 from yourself or you will just go ahead and
 ruin the planet for everyone.
 Of course, the people who rant about this stuff don't always know what
 they are talking about and some have a
 vested interest in promoting their view.

 And, once we ban something, it is difficult to admit erro and bring it
 back.

 Randy with a jaded view in the GWN

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gary Hurst
 Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:04 PM
 To: Mercedes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens


 another example of the government creating more pain?

 On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 2:56 PM, R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I remember reading something not long back that suggested stopping the
 use
  of DDT was one of the worst things that
  has happened to 3rd world countries. We were afraid of what it might do
 to
  people so we stopped producing it.
  However, what the mosquitos do in many tropical countries is a whole lot
  worse for most people that the effects of
  DDT ever might be.
 
  Randy
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Allan Streib
  Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 1:48 PM
  To: Mercedes Discussion List
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens
 
 
  R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
   On the other hand, I think that mosquitos should generally be
   dispatched in whatever manner works as we often have way too many of
   them and they fail to treat me with the level of respect that I
   normally consider is acceptable.
 
  DDT works really well, we were on the verge of wiping out malaria
  until some folks decided that chickens (or some kind of bird) were
  more important than people.
 
  --
  1983 300D
 
  ___
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Gary Hurst]

yes, kill teh do gooders and achieve lasting happiness and peace

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 3:16 PM, R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The government wants to make you happy so it will be re-elected.

 Do Gooders want to protect you from everything including yourself.

 They whine at the government who then does something to shut them up in
 the hope that it will be seen as a positive
 move.

 Sort of like global warming and bio fuels etc. Somebody has to save you
 from yourself or you will just go ahead and
 ruin the planet for everyone.
 Of course, the people who rant about this stuff don't always know what
 they are talking about and some have a
 vested interest in promoting their view.

 And, once we ban something, it is difficult to admit erro and bring it
 back.

 Randy with a jaded view in the GWN

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gary Hurst
 Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:04 PM
 To: Mercedes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens


 another example of the government creating more pain?

 On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 2:56 PM, R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I remember reading something not long back that suggested stopping the
 use
  of DDT was one of the worst things that
  has happened to 3rd world countries. We were afraid of what it might do
 to
  people so we stopped producing it.
  However, what the mosquitos do in many tropical countries is a whole lot
  worse for most people that the effects of
  DDT ever might be.
 
  Randy
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Allan Streib
  Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 1:48 PM
  To: Mercedes Discussion List
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens
 
 
  R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
   On the other hand, I think that mosquitos should generally be
   dispatched in whatever manner works as we often have way too many of
   them and they fail to treat me with the level of respect that I
   normally consider is acceptable.
 
  DDT works really well, we were on the verge of wiping out malaria
  until some folks decided that chickens (or some kind of bird) were
  more important than people.
 
  --
  1983 300D
 
  ___
  http://www.okiebenz.com
  For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
  For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
  http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
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  For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[R A Bennell]

Around here that sort of thing might happen near the end of the school year. 
The graduating class likes to play
little tricks on the school. A couple of years ago friends of my younger son 
were kicked out of school for hanging
a dead racoon on the flag pole in front of the school. They got away with it a 
couple of times but I guess the
humour had worn thin by the 3rd day. Don't know if it was the same racoon and 
they managed to retrieve it from the
garbage after the caretakers took it down or if they got a new dead one daily.

Randy - who needs to get to work and ignore the postings this afternoon

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mitch Haley
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:40 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens



On the news last night:
Somebody abandoned 60-70 chickens in a public school building after hours.
Left them food and water and free range in the hallways. School had to
be closed the day they found the chickens (and the accompanying mess).

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[LarryT]

Stopping the distribution of DDT killed *Millions and millions* of people in 
Africa and Indonesia - as well as many here also.  There just wasn't a cost 
effective replacement available.

While some claim DDT was the reason for the decline in eagles and other 
birds, there's recent evidence DDT had nothing to do with the birds - and 
the millions of dead people are still dead.

Another nastly little law of unintended circumstances -

Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
.

- Original Message - 
From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens


 R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On the other hand, I think that mosquitos should generally be
 dispatched in whatever manner works as we often have way too many of
 them and they fail to treat me with the level of respect that I
 normally consider is acceptable.

 DDT works really well, we were on the verge of wiping out malaria
 until some folks decided that chickens (or some kind of bird) were
 more important than people.

 -- 
 1983 300D

 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
 For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[andrew strasfogel]

there's recent evidence DDT had nothing to do with the birds - and
the millions of dead people are still dead.Got anything to back up
this assertion?

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 4:55 PM, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Stopping the distribution of DDT killed *Millions and millions* of people
 in
 Africa and Indonesia - as well as many here also.  There just wasn't a
 cost
 effective replacement available.

 While some claim DDT was the reason for the decline in eagles and other
 birds, there's recent evidence DDT had nothing to do with the birds - and
 the millions of dead people are still dead.

 Another nastly little law of unintended circumstances -

 Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
 www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
 Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
 PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
 .

 - Original Message -
 From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:47 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens


   R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  On the other hand, I think that mosquitos should generally be
  dispatched in whatever manner works as we often have way too many of
  them and they fail to treat me with the level of respect that I
  normally consider is acceptable.
 
  DDT works really well, we were on the verge of wiping out malaria
  until some folks decided that chickens (or some kind of bird) were
  more important than people.
 
  --
  1983 300D
 
  ___
  http://www.okiebenz.com
  For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
  For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
  http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[LarryT]

here's one -
 
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={C7E1C3FC-40DC-421F-B6C3-A479FC3B5BC1}Larry
 T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber 
PartsTest Results http://members.rennlist.com/oilPORSCHE POSTERS!  
youroil.netWeber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs.- 
Original Message -From: andrew strasfogel [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.comSent: Thursday, February 14, 
2008 5:51 PMSubject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens there's recent evidence DDT had 
nothing to do with the birds - and the millions of dead people are still 
dead.Got anything to back up this assertion? On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 
4:55 PM, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stopping the distribution of DDT 
killed *Millions and millions* of people in Africa and Indonesia - as well 
as many here also.  There just wasn't a cost effective replacement 
available. While some claim DDT was the reason for the decline in eagles 
and other birds, there's recent evidence DDT had nothing to do with the birds 
- and the millions of dead people are still dead. Another nastly little 
law of unintended circumstances - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 
300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results 
http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net Weber Carb 
Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message 
- From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion 
List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens   R A Bennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:   On the other hand, I think that mosquitos should generally 
be  dispatched in whatever manner works as we often have way too many of 
 them and they fail to treat me with the level of respect that I  
normally consider is acceptable.   DDT works really well, we were on the 
verge of wiping out malaria  until some folks decided that chickens (or some 
kind of bird) were  more important than people.   --  1983 300D 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Jeff Zedic]

I know that this is correct about DDT...(whatever my opinion is worth) In
fact, in Africa there's a campaign to bring it back!

The WHO has changed its stance on DDT. I think even Bill Gates' Foundation
is trying to re-instate the use of it. (wait a minute, did I just kill my
argument?)

Jeff Zedic
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Wonko the Sane]

You'd be dead meat ... er, dead Boca ... if you'd said that on the Linux
list.

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 The WHO has changed its stance on DDT. I think even Bill Gates' Foundation
 is trying to re-instate the use of it. (wait a minute, did I just kill my
 argument?)

 Jeff Zedic




-- 
LT Don
http://don.homelinux.net/~don/

apt-get update
apt-get upgrade
The following packages will be replaced
Prez
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Zoltan Finks]

So self defense seems a reasonable point at which to draw one's line.
How about bed bugs? I'd like to hear a PETA member give their position on
destroying one of them. Oh, that's right, we, the human animal, have invaded
their habitat.

Just things I wonder about.

What about chiggers?

The only difference, theoretically, between the value of a dog's and a
chigger's life is the physical size of the creature. Well, that and
ugliness, and demeanor. Actually, that's an assumption. Maybe chiggers are
quite agreeable. And hungry. Hmmm

Actually, I think that the more attributes a creature shares with humans
visually, the more sympathy we have for it.

Brian

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Squashing the mosquito that is drilling into the back of your neck is
 called
 self defense.

 Mosquito leaves me along, I leave him/her alone.

 On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

  So it's hypocritical for people to express sympathy for slaughtered
  chickens
  but not for the mosquito they swat off their arm.
 
 


 --
 LT Don
 http://don.homelinux.net/~don/

 apt-get update
 apt-get upgrade
 The following packages will be replaced
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Jim Cathey]

 We used to feed chickens the carcasses or roast chicken we'd had for 
 dinner. They loved it.

They won't even wait for them to be cooked.  See what happens
when you get an injured chicken in a flock.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Chickens

[Craig McCluskey]

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:04:53 -0800 Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

  We used to feed chickens the carcasses or roast chicken we'd had for 
  dinner. They loved it.
 
 They won't even wait for them to be cooked.  See what happens
 when you get an injured chicken in a flock.

That's why de-beaking is common ...


Craig

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