Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

 I like my clean new 2014 bluetec 250 GLK small SUV.  30 mpg with plenty of
turbocharged 4 cylinder power.  How do they do it?

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 7:45 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> an ol smokey OM621 190Dc is healthier for you than a Lektrick car.
> Probably that OM636 they've been talking up on the buttercup list is
> safer.   More modern MB Diesels are much safer
>
> > G Mann via Mercedes 
> > May 21, 2020 at 5:45 PM
> > Tesla and crash scenes.
> > Several months ago, I read a piece published by some fire fighter / first
> > res ponder association.
> > The focus of the article was how first responders must not use normal
> > response to remove injured persons from an electric vehicle crash scene,
> > due to the high risk of electrical fire, toxic smoke and fumes, and
> > electrical shock to emergency persons.
> > Further, the use of water to put down vehicle fire, post crash, was
> > cautioned against... ie, EV response would be "Wait for the special truck
> > equipped to handle EV fire and safety, before trying to extricate the
> > injured passengers...
> > S... my take on such cars would be.. "Increased Risk" while you bleed
> > out from a bloody nose and a torn fingernail, waiting for the "special
> > truck" to cut the exit path to haul you out..
> > while the battery bank is shorting out and filling the car with toxic
> > materials.
> >
> > Certainly questions I would want answered before I bought a Tesla, or
> > another EV... I see several crashes every week in the city of some 1.8
> > million bad drivers.
> >
> > On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 9:08 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

an ol smokey OM621 190Dc is healthier for you than a Lektrick car.  
Probably that OM636 they've been talking up on the buttercup list is 
safer.   More modern MB Diesels are much safer



G Mann via Mercedes 
May 21, 2020 at 5:45 PM
Tesla and crash scenes.
Several months ago, I read a piece published by some fire fighter / first
res ponder association.
The focus of the article was how first responders must not use normal
response to remove injured persons from an electric vehicle crash scene,
due to the high risk of electrical fire, toxic smoke and fumes, and
electrical shock to emergency persons.
Further, the use of water to put down vehicle fire, post crash, was
cautioned against... ie, EV response would be "Wait for the special truck
equipped to handle EV fire and safety, before trying to extricate the
injured passengers...
S... my take on such cars would be.. "Increased Risk" while you bleed
out from a bloody nose and a torn fingernail, waiting for the "special
truck" to cut the exit path to haul you out..
while the battery bank is shorting out and filling the car with toxic
materials.

Certainly questions I would want answered before I bought a Tesla, or
another EV... I see several crashes every week in the city of some 1.8
million bad drivers.

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 9:08 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Tesla and crash scenes.
Several months ago, I read a piece published by some fire fighter / first
res ponder association.
The focus of the article was how first responders must not use normal
response to remove injured persons from an electric vehicle crash scene,
due to the high risk of electrical fire, toxic smoke and fumes, and
electrical shock to emergency persons.
Further, the use of water to put down vehicle fire, post crash, was
cautioned against... ie, EV response would be "Wait for the special truck
equipped to handle EV fire and safety, before trying to extricate the
injured passengers...
S... my take on such cars would be.. "Increased Risk" while you bleed
out from a bloody nose and a torn fingernail, waiting for the "special
truck" to cut the exit path to haul you out..
while the battery bank is shorting out and filling the car with toxic
materials.

Certainly questions I would want answered before I bought a Tesla, or
another EV... I see several crashes every week in the city of some 1.8
million bad drivers.

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 9:08 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Montgomery County has an excellent website tracking the progress/recession
> of COVID 19:
>
> https://montgomerycountymd.gov/HHS/RightNav/Coronavirus-data.html
>
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 8:16 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >  Teslas are likely to do very well in terms of safety due to the mass of
> > the vehicle but I am curious to know if they actually get in fewer
> > accidents with all their autopilot doodads as well.
> >
> > On Wed, May 20, 2020, 7:25 AM Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > > They didn't show statistics for an S class. I suspect that it would
> be
> > > at the top of the list.
> > >
> > > The trouble with statistics is that there are a lot of variables.  My
> > > Camaro, for example,
> > > had a TERRIBLE safety rating.  But, that's mostly because of the sorts
> of
> > > folks who
> > > liked to buy the things.  It always felt _very_ safe to me.  Solid,
> > > stable, low to the ground.
> > > And, in the minor quartering head-on I was in, I drove home afterwards,
> > > the Mustang
> > > I tangled with left on a hook, dripping fluids.  So, durable also.  If
> > all
> > > you looked at was
> > > the numbers, you'd be misled about the car itself.  It was the bozos
> who
> > > bought them,
> > > myself perhaps included, and the way they liked to drive them that was
> > the
> > > problem.
> > >
> > > So, what do the Tesla numbers actually tell you?
> > >
> > > -- Jim
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> > ___
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Montgomery County has an excellent website tracking the progress/recession
of COVID 19:

https://montgomerycountymd.gov/HHS/RightNav/Coronavirus-data.html


On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 8:16 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  Teslas are likely to do very well in terms of safety due to the mass of
> the vehicle but I am curious to know if they actually get in fewer
> accidents with all their autopilot doodads as well.
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2020, 7:25 AM Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
>
> > > They didn't show statistics for an S class. I suspect that it would be
> > at the top of the list.
> >
> > The trouble with statistics is that there are a lot of variables.  My
> > Camaro, for example,
> > had a TERRIBLE safety rating.  But, that's mostly because of the sorts of
> > folks who
> > liked to buy the things.  It always felt _very_ safe to me.  Solid,
> > stable, low to the ground.
> > And, in the minor quartering head-on I was in, I drove home afterwards,
> > the Mustang
> > I tangled with left on a hook, dripping fluids.  So, durable also.  If
> all
> > you looked at was
> > the numbers, you'd be misled about the car itself.  It was the bozos who
> > bought them,
> > myself perhaps included, and the way they liked to drive them that was
> the
> > problem.
> >
> > So, what do the Tesla numbers actually tell you?
> >
> > -- Jim
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

 Teslas are likely to do very well in terms of safety due to the mass of
the vehicle but I am curious to know if they actually get in fewer
accidents with all their autopilot doodads as well.

On Wed, May 20, 2020, 7:25 AM Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
wrote:

> > They didn't show statistics for an S class. I suspect that it would be
> at the top of the list.
>
> The trouble with statistics is that there are a lot of variables.  My
> Camaro, for example,
> had a TERRIBLE safety rating.  But, that's mostly because of the sorts of
> folks who
> liked to buy the things.  It always felt _very_ safe to me.  Solid,
> stable, low to the ground.
> And, in the minor quartering head-on I was in, I drove home afterwards,
> the Mustang
> I tangled with left on a hook, dripping fluids.  So, durable also.  If all
> you looked at was
> the numbers, you'd be misled about the car itself.  It was the bozos who
> bought them,
> myself perhaps included, and the way they liked to drive them that was the
> problem.
>
> So, what do the Tesla numbers actually tell you?
>
> -- Jim
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> They didn't show statistics for an S class. I suspect that it would be at the 
> top of the list. 

The trouble with statistics is that there are a lot of variables.  My Camaro, 
for example,
had a TERRIBLE safety rating.  But, that's mostly because of the sorts of folks 
who
liked to buy the things.  It always felt _very_ safe to me.  Solid, stable, low 
to the ground.
And, in the minor quartering head-on I was in, I drove home afterwards, the 
Mustang
I tangled with left on a hook, dripping fluids.  So, durable also.  If all you 
looked at was
the numbers, you'd be misled about the car itself.  It was the bozos who bought 
them,
myself perhaps included, and the way they liked to drive them that was the 
problem.

So, what do the Tesla numbers actually tell you?

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/teslas-driver-fatality-rate-is-more-than-triple-that-of-luxury-cars-and-likely-even-higher-433670ddde17

Better off in a German luxury car. Imagine that. 
They didn't show statistics for an S class. I suspect that it would be at the 
top of the list. 

Rick


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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Yes of course you will hear about those. If it isnt engaged when the person
dies, it isnt news because the robot cannot be said to have killed the
person a la 737 max. No Rise of the Machines angle.

On Tue, May 19, 2020, 8:25 PM Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Tue, 19 May 2020 18:43:18 -0700 Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > I keep waiting for someone to publish some Tesla data. If that autopilot
> > stuff is any good, they should be better than a lot of other cars.
>
> Well, the last two deaths I heard of were because the driver had the
> autopilot engaged ...
>
>
> Craig
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 19 May 2020 18:43:18 -0700 Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I keep waiting for someone to publish some Tesla data. If that autopilot
> stuff is any good, they should be better than a lot of other cars.

Well, the last two deaths I heard of were because the driver had the
autopilot engaged ...


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

I keep waiting for someone to publish some Tesla data. If that autopilot
stuff is any good, they should be better than a lot of other cars.

On Fri, May 15, 2020, 8:58 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Yet Ford has way lower accident rates.  It's a proven fact.*
>
> *Driveway driving only
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 10:14 PM Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks,Rick. All true
> >
> > Dwight Giles Jr.
> > Wickford RI
> >
> > On Fri, May 15, 2020, 10:09 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > And actually minimizing risk is partially why most of us drive
> Mercedes.
> > > Peter was in a crash that he was able to walk away from, because he
> > > minimized his risks by driving a Mercedes. Wilton was in a very similar
> > > crash, and was able to walk away because he was driving a Mercedes. Dr.
> > > Booth was drawn to Mercedes because his wife was killed in a car
> > accident.
> > > His research drew him to the conclusion that Mercedes Benz automobiles
> > were
> > > the safest autos on the road.
> > >
> > > There. It's on topic now.
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Clay you make a good point: we should have been using those centers to
isolate exposed contacts of known cases.

For example, this is what happens when they detect a case in South Korea:
they hunt everyone down and isolate them for a bit, and the epidemic dies.
Fitness instructors infected 83 people I think. Attack rate of 25%.

Summary: Better do Zumba over Zoom!

Cluster of Coronavirus Disease Associated with Fitness Dance Classes, South
Korea
Research Letter CDC Emerging Infectious Diseases

Disclaimer: Early release articles are not considered as final versions.
Any changes will be reflected in the online version in the month the
article is officially released.

Abstract
During 24 days in Cheonan, South Korea, 112 persons were infected with
severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 associated with fitness
dance classes at 12 sports facilities. Intense physical exercise in densely
populated sports facilities could increase risk for infection. Vigorous
exercise in confined spaces should be minimized during outbreaks.

By April 30, 2020, South Korea had reported 10,765 cases of coronavirus
disease (COVID-19) (1); ≈76.2% of cases were from Daegu and North
Gyeongsang provinces. On February 25, a COVID-19 case was detected in
Cheonan, a city ≈200 km from Daegu. In response, public health and
government officials from Cheonan and South Chungcheong Province activated
the emergency response system. We began active surveillance and focused on
identifying possible COVID-19 cases and contacts. We interviewed
consecutive confirmed cases and found all had participated in a fitness
dance class. We traced contacts back to a nationwide fitness dance
instructor workshop that was held on February 15 in Cheonan.

Fitness dance classes set to Latin rhythms have gained popularity in South
Korea because of the high aerobic intensity (2). At the February 15
workshop, instructors trained intensely for 4 hours. Among 27 instructors
who participated in the workshop, 8 had positive real-time reverse
transcription PCR (RT-PCR) results for severe acute respiratory syndrome
coronavirus 2, which causes COVID-19; 6 were from Cheonan and 1 was from
Daegu, which had the most reported COVID-19 cases in South Korea. All were
asymptomatic on the day of the workshop.

By March 9, we identified 112 COVID-19 cases associated with fitness dance
classes in 12 different sports facilities in Cheonan (Figure). All cases
were confirmed by RT-PCR; 82 (73.2%) were symptomatic and 30 (26.8%) were
asymptomatic at the time of laboratory confirmation. Instructors with very
mild symptoms, such as coughs, taught classes for ≈1 week after attending
the workshop (Appendix). The instructors and students met only during
classes, which lasted for 50 minutes 2 times per week, and did not have
contact outside of class. On average, students developed symptoms 3.5 days
after participating in a fitness dance class (3). Most (50.9%) cases were
the result of transmission from instructors to fitness class participants;
38 cases (33.9%) were in-family transmission from instructors and students;
and 17 cases (15.2%) were from transmission during meetings with coworkers
or acquaintances.

Among 54 fitness class students with confirmed COVID-19, the median age was
42, all were women, and 10 (18.5%) had preexisting medical conditions
(Appendix Table 1). The most common symptom at the time of admission for
isolation was cough in 44.4% (24/54) of cases; 17 (31.5%) case-patients had
pneumonia. The median time to discharge or end of isolation was 27.6 (range
13–66) days after symptom onset.

Before sports facilities were closed, a total of 217 students were exposed
in 12 facilities, an attack rate of 26.3% (95% CI 20.9%–32.5%) (Appendix
Table 2). Including family and coworkers, transmissions from the
instructors accounted for 63 cases (Appendix Figure 2). We followed up on
830 close contacts of fitness instructors and students and identified 34
cases of COVID-19, translating to a secondary attack rate of 4.10% (95% CI
2.95%–5.67%). We identified 418 close contacts of 34 tertiary transmissions
before the quarantine and confirmed 10 quaternary cases from the tertiary
cases, translating to a tertiary attack rate of 2.39% (95% CI 1.30%–4.35%).

The instructor from Daegu who attended the February 15 workshop had
symptoms develop on February 18 and might have been presymptomatic during
the workshop. Evidence of transmission from presymptomatic persons has been
shown in epidemiologic investigations of COVID-19 (4,5).
Characteristics that might have led to transmission from the instructors in
Cheonan include large class sizes, small spaces, and intensity of the
workouts. The moist, warm atmosphere in a sports facility coupled with
turbulent air flow generated by intense physical exercise can cause more
dense transmission of isolated droplets (6,7). Classes from which secondary
COVID-19 cases were identified included 5–22 students in a room ≈60 m2
during 50 minutes of intense 

Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Clay via Mercedes]

The media is ramping up the hysteria once more with talk of “The NEXT Wave”  
Bigger and Better able to kill than the last one.  If we had not piddled around 
the past three months, there would have been enough spread of the infection 
that would have burnt out the duff and fuel for a second or third act.   
Instead there was mad rushing about to erect triage/recovery wards in field 
hospitals that never saw a single patient and were taken down before even a 14 
day isolation took place.

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On May 19, 2020, at 4:03 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 18 May 2020 14:39:54 -0800 Clay via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
>> I am fairly certain we all either have had it or will be touched by it
>> sooner or later.  
> 
> The whole point of isolation was to slow down (not stop) the spread of
> the virus so as to not overwhelm hospitals, clinics, and such.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Mon, 18 May 2020 14:39:54 -0800 Clay via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I am fairly certain we all either have had it or will be touched by it
> sooner or later.  

The whole point of isolation was to slow down (not stop) the spread of
the virus so as to not overwhelm hospitals, clinics, and such.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

The shutdown definitely helped slow the virus down where it was
implemented. Iowa vs Illinois border counties are quite similar and
infection rates diverged nicely after Illinois shut down and Iowa did not.

But it is too draconian to sustain.

Testing and tracing does not cost nearly as much as shutting the economy
down. If we dont test, we won't be able to do targeted intervention and get
everyone else back to work.

Iowa study summary:

#Iowa
30% Reduction in cases

Comparison of Estimated Rates of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) in
Border Counties in Iowa Without a Stay-at-Home Order and Border Counties in
Illinois With a Stay-at-Home Order

Question
Was the stay-at-home order in Illinois associated with different rates of
coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) compared with Iowa, which did not issue
a stay-at-home order?

Findings
This cross-sectional study of border counties in Iowa and Illinois used
difference-in-differences design and found an increase in estimated rates
of COVID-19 cases per 10 000 residents in the border counties in Iowa
compared with the border counties in Illinois after a stay-at-home order
was implemented in Illinois but not in Iowa.

Meaning
The results of this study suggest that issuing a stay-at-home order in Iowa
may have helped limit the spread of COVID-19 cases in that state.

Abstract
Importance  Iowa is 1 of 5 states in the US that have not issued a
stay-at-home order during the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic.
There is no empirical evidence on whether issuing a stay-at-home order in
Iowa could have been associated with a reduced rate of COVID-19 infections
in the state.

Objective
To compare COVID-19 cases in border counties in Iowa, which did not issue a
stay-at-home order, with cases in border counties in Illinois, which did
issue a stay-at-home order.

Design, Setting, and Participants
This cross-sectional study with a difference-in-differences design compared
daily changes in COVID-19 cases per 10 000 residents in 8 Iowa counties
bordering Illinois with those in the 7 Illinois counties bordering Iowa
before and after Illinois issued a stay-at-home order on March 21, 2020.
Additional sensitivity analyses were conducted to account for differences
in timing of closing schools and nonessential businesses between the 2
states and differential trends in COVID-19 cases by county population
density and poverty rates.

Exposures
Issuing a stay-at-home order.

Main Outcomes and Measures
Comparison of cumulative cases of COVID-19 per 10 000 residents in border
counties in Iowa and Illinois.

Results
The total populations were 462 445 in the Iowa border counties and 272 385
in the Illinois border counties. Population density was higher in the Iowa
counties (114.2 people per square mile) than in the Illinois counties (78.2
people per square mile). Trends of cumulative COVID-19 cases per 10 000
residents for the Iowa and Illinois border counties were comparable before
the Illinois stay-at-home order, which went into effect at 5:00 pm on March
21 (March 15 to March 21: 0.024 per 10 000 residents vs 0.026 per 10 000
residents). After that, cases increased more quickly in Iowa and more
slowly in Illinois. Within 10, 20, and 30 days after the enactment of the
stay-at-home order in Illinois, the difference in cases was −0.51 per 10
000 residents (SE, 0.09; 95% CI, −0.69 to −0.32; P < .001), −1.15 per 10
000 residents (SE, 0.49; 95% CI, −2.12 to −0.18; P = .02), and −4.71 per 10
000 residents (SE, 1.99; 95% CI, −8.64 to −0.78; P = .02), respectively.
The estimates indicate excess cases in the border Iowa counties by as many
as 217 cases after 1 month without a stay-at-home order. This estimate of
excess cases represents 30.4% of the 716 total cases in those Iowa counties
by that date. Sensitivity analyses addressing differences in timing of
closing schools and nonessential businesses and differences in county
population density and poverty rates between the 2 states supported these
findings.

Conclusions and Relevance
This cross-sectional study with a difference-in-differences design found an
increase in estimated rates of COVID-19 cases per 10 000 residents in the
border counties in Iowa compared with the border counties in Illinois
following a stay-at-home order that was implemented in Illinois but not in
Iowa.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2766229

On Mon, May 18, 2020, 2:41 PM Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Peter,
>
> How'd that isolation thing working in NYC?  Over 80 deaths per 1000 cases.
> Compare that with Florida, about 43 per 1000, and far less draconian
> lock-down / isolation.  Why are all those New Yorkers fleeing and heading
> to their vacation homes (including in FL)?
>
> We've got community spreading going on, the "test and trace" horse has left
> the barn and is probably a few counties away.  Testing, contact tracing and
> isolating is a fantasy at this point.  When the Chinese Communist 

Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Don't forget hundreds of flights from Rome (Italy) daily into 3 NY airports
during the days when Italy was just starting to get hit with the impact of
the pandemic

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 10:20 PM archer75--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> You probably had the oak-ids, the hickory-ids, or the walnut-ids.
> https://www.pollen.com/forecast/current/pollen/29401
> Gerry
>
> On Mon, 18 May 2020 10:04:57 -0400
> Floyd Thursby via Mercedes  wrote:
>
> > I think I have had the pollen covids for the last 3-4 months at least.
> > Every time I go outside I start hacking and coughing
> >
> > --FT
> >
> > On 5/18/20 9:54 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> > > I’ve mentioned this previously. Both the wife and I had mild flu-like
> stuff back in mid to late February, too. We both wondered if we already had
> a mild case of beer virus.
> > >
> > > -D
> > >
> > >> On May 18, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I wonder how they will be skewed from a reduction in MVAs, bangers
> shooting each other, other deaths associated with activities that have been
> diminished.  I guess those can be statistically excluded but it will be
> interesting to see what the overall death rates are for the months of say
> March and April in the various categories.
> > >>
> > >> Some friends (late 60s, he is a retired doc) believe they had the
> covids back in February -- some sort of flu-like thing but not the flu, not
> a cold, they felt not real bad for 3-4 days then recovered fairly rapidly.
> Their gated luxury resort lifestyle community (lot of nooyawkas have 2nd or
> 3rd or 4th homes there and relocated) is having free testing this week for
> the 1%ers so they will see if they got da bug.
> > >>
> > >> On 5/18/20 1:49 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:
> > >>> Looking at excess deaths for this time of year compared to other
> years is
> > >>> likely to be the best way to tell how many people covid 19 ended up
> > >>> killing. It takes time for those numbers to roll in, though.
> > >> --
> > >> --FT
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > --
> > --FT
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> --
> arche...@embarqmail.com 
>
> ___
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

You probably had the oak-ids, the hickory-ids, or the walnut-ids.
https://www.pollen.com/forecast/current/pollen/29401
Gerry

On Mon, 18 May 2020 10:04:57 -0400
Floyd Thursby via Mercedes  wrote:

> I think I have had the pollen covids for the last 3-4 months at least.  
> Every time I go outside I start hacking and coughing
> 
> --FT
> 
> On 5/18/20 9:54 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> > I’ve mentioned this previously. Both the wife and I had mild flu-like stuff 
> > back in mid to late February, too. We both wondered if we already had a 
> > mild case of beer virus.
> >
> > -D
> >
> >> On May 18, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> I wonder how they will be skewed from a reduction in MVAs, bangers 
> >> shooting each other, other deaths associated with activities that have 
> >> been diminished.  I guess those can be statistically excluded but it will 
> >> be interesting to see what the overall death rates are for the months of 
> >> say March and April in the various categories.
> >>
> >> Some friends (late 60s, he is a retired doc) believe they had the covids 
> >> back in February -- some sort of flu-like thing but not the flu, not a 
> >> cold, they felt not real bad for 3-4 days then recovered fairly rapidly.  
> >> Their gated luxury resort lifestyle community (lot of nooyawkas have 2nd 
> >> or 3rd or 4th homes there and relocated) is having free testing this week 
> >> for the 1%ers so they will see if they got da bug.
> >>
> >> On 5/18/20 1:49 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:
> >>> Looking at excess deaths for this time of year compared to other years is
> >>> likely to be the best way to tell how many people covid 19 ended up
> >>> killing. It takes time for those numbers to roll in, though.
> >> -- 
> >> --FT
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> -- 
> --FT
> 
> 
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> 
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-- 
arche...@embarqmail.com 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

>How'd that isolation thing working in NYC? 

The reason the virus spread to people in isolation in NYC is the vector of 
transmission. Fecal-oral. The less then hygienic Uber eats driver uses the 
bathroom, and doesn't wash properly, the shut ins order food, the delivery 
driver drops off food with virus filled fecal particles on the box, and perhaps 
in the food/box and voila, the shut ins get sick. 

That's one of two vectors of transmission the CDC, and other powers that be 
refuse to refer to. Fecal-oral, and fingers to eyes. Safety glasses would 
probably go farther to prevent the spread of this disease and others than 
fabric masks, but no one talks about that.  

Wash your hands. 
Rick


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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Clay via Mercedes]

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On May 18, 2020, at 1:26 PM, G Mann via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Question for all you thinking folks, since all our Mercedes are fixed and
> the oil and tire threads have exhausted themselves...
> 
> Which is more important and valid:
> How many died of CV 19?

The dead do not drive Mercedes

> or
> How much public panic has been generated which permitted government
> mandated house arrest of millions of citizens and business closure /
> unemployment?

The many millions who have lost jobs and businesses could drive a Mercedes, 
purchase oil and tires, as well as make repairs to their Mercedes and then 
recount the trials and travails, as well as outstanding successes and 
adventures.  More gooder!

> or
> Real factual information about how CV 19 actually works, is transmitted,
> and the lasting effects?

The information about this will not make Mercedes cars Great Again, the way 
they were before anybody knew about SARS-Cov 2

> 
> Pick one, or all, and posit at will.
> 
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 12:48 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Right, but they claim it's anonymized. Is it really? Who knows.
>> 
>> I keep location services turned off on my phone anyway. I know that
>> doesn't prevent cell tower triangulation, but I don't think that's
>> something an app can really do, it has to be done by the carrier.
>> 
>> Also Google and Apple who have been working on a contract tracing
>> framework for COVID-19, have refused to allow app developers access to
>> location data, to the frustration of health authorities.
>> 
>> So the point is, it's harder for the government here to do contact
>> tracing via mobile phone than it is in say China or Singapore where they
>> can just demand all records and get them without pushback.
>> 
>> Allan
>> 
>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:
>> 
>>> Not to burst your bubble, Allan, but mobile phone carriers have been
>> selling off our location data to third parties for years. It’s a huge
>> revenue stream for them. That’s starting to change, but they’ll go kicking
>> and screaming in the process.
>>> 
>>> This is a bit of a long read, but I would encourage anyone with a
>> cellular phone to read it and ponder the facts.
>>> 
>>> 
>> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/10/business/location-data-privacy-apps.html
>> <
>> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/10/business/location-data-privacy-apps.html
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -D
>>> 
 On May 18, 2020, at 11:08 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 From a practical standpoint, a sizable number of people do not have a
 smartphone, especially in the population most vulnerable. Mobile phone
 carriers are private companies and say they will not turn over
 personally identifiable location data to the government without a
 warrant. The idea that people might be asked to carry something the
 equivalent of an ankle bracelet like a person on house arrest is a
 non-starter.
 
 Allan
 
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

G Mann via Mercedes  writes:

> How many died of CV 19?

We don't know

> How much public panic has been generated which permitted government
> mandated house arrest of millions of citizens and business closure /
> unemployment?

A lot. Trillions of dollars worth, in the USA alone.

> Real factual information about how CV 19 actually works, is transmitted,
> and the lasting effects?

We don't know.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Clay via Mercedes]

I am fairly certain we all either have had it or will be touched by it sooner 
or later.  

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On May 18, 2020, at 5:54 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I’ve mentioned this previously. Both the wife and I had mild flu-like stuff 
> back in mid to late February, too. We both wondered if we already had a mild 
> case of beer virus.
> 
> -D

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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Peter,

How'd that isolation thing working in NYC?  Over 80 deaths per 1000 cases.
Compare that with Florida, about 43 per 1000, and far less draconian
lock-down / isolation.  Why are all those New Yorkers fleeing and heading
to their vacation homes (including in FL)?

We've got community spreading going on, the "test and trace" horse has left
the barn and is probably a few counties away.  Testing, contact tracing and
isolating is a fantasy at this point.  When the Chinese Communist Party
isolated Wuhan from all internal travel, but permitted international
flights out of Wuhan to all corners of the globe, those commies made sure
community spread was going on all over the globe.  You can thank them.

Where is the science, where are the studies, that tell us that lock-down
and isolation works?  Meanwhile, real life data is telling us that it does
not work.

Your civil liberties and rights may not mean much to you, but to many in
this country they are essential to having a job and feeding a family.  If
you can afford to stay locked up in your house, no one is going to stop
you.  If people not wearing masks is too risky for you, then stay away from
them.  There are plenty of medical professionals against the idea that the
general public should be wearing masks in social situations, but that goes
against the narrative of fear perpetuated by the main stream media, so
their voice is never heard.  Wearing a mask can impede the flow of oxygen
into the blood stream, reducing 02 levels and making the wearer MORE
susceptible to infection of lungs.  Add increased touching of the face and
mask due to discomfort, and the risk of infection is going up.

-
Max
Charleston SC


On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 10:46 AM Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Actually, isolation is the only way to stop the spread.  This is an
> unusual virus in that it's possible to actually stop the spread, difficulty
> is that it can have a long incubation period with virus shedding going on
> for some days before symptoms get bad enough to send someone in for testing.
>
> This isn't the first time, either -- SARS and MERS are similar viruses,
> just much less transmissible.  Another long forgotten incident involved fur
> animals in Manchuria in the early part of the 1900s, when no vaccine was
> possible.  That outbreak was traced back to harvesitng sick animals for
> fur, and was stopped by guess what, cloth masks and social distancing.
>
> The key to stopping the spread is testing and contact tracing -- if people
> can be tested easily, it's possible to break the chain of transmission, and
> when no more people are getting infected, eventually the virus will no long
> reproduce.
>
> My local county has always had a pretty strong public health department,
> and has been on top of tracing and testing since the start -- luckily, we
> are more or less remote here, and full state wide social restrictions were
> in place before the first cases showed up.  The result is that we have just
> over 200 cases for 200,000 people and two deaths.  Case number per day is
> down to five or six, and I believe nearly all of them were people in
> observation for exposure.
>
> Couple people refused to self isolate and were promptly served with stay
> at home orders by a local judge -- we still have quarantine laws on the
> books from when there were no antibiotics or vaccines for common illnesses
> like scarlet fever a measles.
>
> while it may seem very harsh and draconian, the lockdown in China worked.
> You have to understand the filtering of news there, but I suspect the
> reported case numbers are reasonably accurate -- if the Parry lies too
> much, they will be overthrown, it's how things work in China.  South Korea
> and Tiawan, both of whom had serious issues with SARS in the 90s, have very
> low cases as well.
>
> One point more -- nightclubs opened in Seol, and at least 126 cases have
> come from a single club over a couple nights.  This is what I'm worried
> about with the lunatics that squeal about how their "rights" are being
> infringed by public health measures.  Only takes one jerk ignoring the
> health rules to infect hundreds of people in close quarters.  Ditto for the
> boob that insisted he run his barber shop in spite of the shutdown -- he's
> now positive and who knows how many of his clients are too as a result.
>
> I definitely error on the side of caution, it's why I've driven a Benz for
> decades.  Hardly an imposition to wear a mask compared to getting really,
> really sick or killing my elderly mother.  We are not all isolated
> sovereign states with no responsibilities, we are a community and need to
> remember everyone is entitled to what we are.  Or as my Grandmother used to
> say "You have your rights, true -- until they run into mine, and you are
> standing on my toes"
>
> Far too many people who blow on about their "right" to do whatever they
> want are notably absent when it's time to take 

Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Question for all you thinking folks, since all our Mercedes are fixed and
the oil and tire threads have exhausted themselves...

Which is more important and valid:
How many died of CV 19?
or
How much public panic has been generated which permitted government
mandated house arrest of millions of citizens and business closure /
unemployment?
or
Real factual information about how CV 19 actually works, is transmitted,
and the lasting effects?

Pick one, or all, and posit at will.

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 12:48 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Right, but they claim it's anonymized. Is it really? Who knows.
>
> I keep location services turned off on my phone anyway. I know that
> doesn't prevent cell tower triangulation, but I don't think that's
> something an app can really do, it has to be done by the carrier.
>
> Also Google and Apple who have been working on a contract tracing
> framework for COVID-19, have refused to allow app developers access to
> location data, to the frustration of health authorities.
>
> So the point is, it's harder for the government here to do contact
> tracing via mobile phone than it is in say China or Singapore where they
> can just demand all records and get them without pushback.
>
> Allan
>
> Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:
>
> > Not to burst your bubble, Allan, but mobile phone carriers have been
> selling off our location data to third parties for years. It’s a huge
> revenue stream for them. That’s starting to change, but they’ll go kicking
> and screaming in the process.
> >
> > This is a bit of a long read, but I would encourage anyone with a
> cellular phone to read it and ponder the facts.
> >
> >
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/10/business/location-data-privacy-apps.html
> <
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/10/business/location-data-privacy-apps.html
> >
> >
> > -D
> >
> >> On May 18, 2020, at 11:08 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> From a practical standpoint, a sizable number of people do not have a
> >> smartphone, especially in the population most vulnerable. Mobile phone
> >> carriers are private companies and say they will not turn over
> >> personally identifiable location data to the government without a
> >> warrant. The idea that people might be asked to carry something the
> >> equivalent of an ankle bracelet like a person on house arrest is a
> >> non-starter.
> >>
> >> Allan
> >>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Right, but they claim it's anonymized. Is it really? Who knows.

I keep location services turned off on my phone anyway. I know that
doesn't prevent cell tower triangulation, but I don't think that's
something an app can really do, it has to be done by the carrier.

Also Google and Apple who have been working on a contract tracing
framework for COVID-19, have refused to allow app developers access to
location data, to the frustration of health authorities.

So the point is, it's harder for the government here to do contact
tracing via mobile phone than it is in say China or Singapore where they
can just demand all records and get them without pushback.

Allan

Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:

> Not to burst your bubble, Allan, but mobile phone carriers have been selling 
> off our location data to third parties for years. It’s a huge revenue stream 
> for them. That’s starting to change, but they’ll go kicking and screaming in 
> the process.
>
> This is a bit of a long read, but I would encourage anyone with a cellular 
> phone to read it and ponder the facts.
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/10/business/location-data-privacy-apps.html
>  
> 
>
> -D
>
>> On May 18, 2020, at 11:08 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> From a practical standpoint, a sizable number of people do not have a
>> smartphone, especially in the population most vulnerable. Mobile phone
>> carriers are private companies and say they will not turn over
>> personally identifiable location data to the government without a
>> warrant. The idea that people might be asked to carry something the
>> equivalent of an ankle bracelet like a person on house arrest is a
>> non-starter.
>> 
>> Allan
>> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I need to clarify, this article covers developers and applications using 
location data, but it’s a similar problem. The carries sell it, too, and the 
third party companies that harvest it sell it to people like bail bondsmen and 
skip tracers, for example.

-D

> On May 18, 2020, at 3:11 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Not to burst your bubble, Allan, but mobile phone carriers have been selling 
> off our location data to third parties for years. It’s a huge revenue stream 
> for them. That’s starting to change, but they’ll go kicking and screaming in 
> the process.
> 
> This is a bit of a long read, but I would encourage anyone with a cellular 
> phone to read it and ponder the facts.
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/10/business/location-data-privacy-apps.html
>  
> 
> 
> -D
> 
>> On May 18, 2020, at 11:08 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> From a practical standpoint, a sizable number of people do not have a
>> smartphone, especially in the population most vulnerable. Mobile phone
>> carriers are private companies and say they will not turn over
>> personally identifiable location data to the government without a
>> warrant. The idea that people might be asked to carry something the
>> equivalent of an ankle bracelet like a person on house arrest is a
>> non-starter.
>> 
>> Allan
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Not to burst your bubble, Allan, but mobile phone carriers have been selling 
off our location data to third parties for years. It’s a huge revenue stream 
for them. That’s starting to change, but they’ll go kicking and screaming in 
the process.

This is a bit of a long read, but I would encourage anyone with a cellular 
phone to read it and ponder the facts.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/10/business/location-data-privacy-apps.html
 


-D

> On May 18, 2020, at 11:08 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> From a practical standpoint, a sizable number of people do not have a
> smartphone, especially in the population most vulnerable. Mobile phone
> carriers are private companies and say they will not turn over
> personally identifiable location data to the government without a
> warrant. The idea that people might be asked to carry something the
> equivalent of an ankle bracelet like a person on house arrest is a
> non-starter.
> 
> Allan
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes  writes:

> If you just start with testing all symptomatic people and then testing and
> isolating their contacts, you can control it. You need to test until you
> get less than 3% positive results, and you need to find and isolate all
> contacts of known cases within a day. The masks and distancing also help
> somewhat, so it doesn't have to be either/or. Places like Taiwan, S. Korea,
> Singapore and China are using cell phones to trace cases and contacts and
> anyone new to the country in pretty sophisticated ways. If you go to
> Taiwan, they take your cell number and put you in quarantine. If your phone
> doesn't move for an hour, they call you to make sure you didn't leave it at
> home. If you don't answer, some dudes in uniform show up at your door to
> make sure you are there and nowhere else. In seoul, if anyone in your apt
> building tests positive, you get a call that you may have been exposed and
> you are asked to go downstairs to the pop up kiosk to be tested, and they
> text you results in about 6 hours. S. Korea learned the hard way with SARS
> and MERS so they put all this into play very rapidly the moment there was
> any word out of China that something was going on. Anyway we know how to
> control it. Only question is whether we want to.

That's all well and good for those countries, but I can't see it working
here. Our country is geographically much larger, our governmental
authority is much more decentralized, and we have a much stronger sense
of privacy as a right. I think a large fraction of the population would
not accept this. We already have sheriffs refusing to enforce executive
orders of their governors. I'm sure that would be unimaginable in
S. Korea and Singapore, not to mention China.

>From a practical standpoint, a sizable number of people do not have a
smartphone, especially in the population most vulnerable. Mobile phone
carriers are private companies and say they will not turn over
personally identifiable location data to the government without a
warrant. The idea that people might be asked to carry something the
equivalent of an ankle bracelet like a person on house arrest is a
non-starter.

We also believed what China and the WHO was telling us in the early part
of the year that this was under control in China and did not appear to
be transmissible from person-to-person. I guess we did learn that lesson.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

I think I have had the pollen covids for the last 3-4 months at least.  
Every time I go outside I start hacking and coughing


--FT

On 5/18/20 9:54 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I’ve mentioned this previously. Both the wife and I had mild flu-like stuff 
back in mid to late February, too. We both wondered if we already had a mild 
case of beer virus.

-D


On May 18, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes  
wrote:

I wonder how they will be skewed from a reduction in MVAs, bangers shooting 
each other, other deaths associated with activities that have been diminished.  
I guess those can be statistically excluded but it will be interesting to see 
what the overall death rates are for the months of say March and April in the 
various categories.

Some friends (late 60s, he is a retired doc) believe they had the covids back 
in February -- some sort of flu-like thing but not the flu, not a cold, they 
felt not real bad for 3-4 days then recovered fairly rapidly.  Their gated 
luxury resort lifestyle community (lot of nooyawkas have 2nd or 3rd or 4th 
homes there and relocated) is having free testing this week for the 1%ers so 
they will see if they got da bug.

On 5/18/20 1:49 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:

Looking at excess deaths for this time of year compared to other years is
likely to be the best way to tell how many people covid 19 ended up
killing. It takes time for those numbers to roll in, though.

--
--FT


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--
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’ve mentioned this previously. Both the wife and I had mild flu-like stuff 
back in mid to late February, too. We both wondered if we already had a mild 
case of beer virus.

-D

> On May 18, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I wonder how they will be skewed from a reduction in MVAs, bangers shooting 
> each other, other deaths associated with activities that have been 
> diminished.  I guess those can be statistically excluded but it will be 
> interesting to see what the overall death rates are for the months of say 
> March and April in the various categories.
> 
> Some friends (late 60s, he is a retired doc) believe they had the covids back 
> in February -- some sort of flu-like thing but not the flu, not a cold, they 
> felt not real bad for 3-4 days then recovered fairly rapidly.  Their gated 
> luxury resort lifestyle community (lot of nooyawkas have 2nd or 3rd or 4th 
> homes there and relocated) is having free testing this week for the 1%ers so 
> they will see if they got da bug.
> 
> On 5/18/20 1:49 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:
>> Looking at excess deaths for this time of year compared to other years is
>> likely to be the best way to tell how many people covid 19 ended up
>> killing. It takes time for those numbers to roll in, though.
> 
> -- 
> --FT
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

I wonder how they will be skewed from a reduction in MVAs, bangers 
shooting each other, other deaths associated with activities that have 
been diminished.  I guess those can be statistically excluded but it 
will be interesting to see what the overall death rates are for the 
months of say March and April in the various categories.


Some friends (late 60s, he is a retired doc) believe they had the covids 
back in February -- some sort of flu-like thing but not the flu, not a 
cold, they felt not real bad for 3-4 days then recovered fairly 
rapidly.  Their gated luxury resort lifestyle community (lot of 
nooyawkas have 2nd or 3rd or 4th homes there and relocated) is having 
free testing this week for the 1%ers so they will see if they got da bug.


On 5/18/20 1:49 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:

Looking at excess deaths for this time of year compared to other years is
likely to be the best way to tell how many people covid 19 ended up
killing. It takes time for those numbers to roll in, though.


--
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Karl:

This is what needs to happen.  Sadly we live in a country which at the moment 
is completely focused on self, with a lot of money being spent on keeping us 
that way.

Somehow the right of political freedom and freedom to practice religion becomes 
freedom from responsibility and law, along with forgetting that EVERYONE has 
the same rights, and when one person's rights stop when they collide with 
another's!

With no treatment and no vaccine any time soon, we have to use the same disease 
control practices used a century ago, with the plus that we CAN test for this 
virus, accurately and fairly rapidly.

The social disruption would have been a lot less if we had quarantined people 
traveling from Asia in January, not just refused non-citizens entry.  This is a 
virus, not a nationality, after all.  Probably should have quarantined everyone 
coming into the country.

That and rapid contact tracing would have vastly reduced the spread.  
Disruptive, sure.  Smart, absolutely.  

Doing what South Korea and Taiwan did would have pretty much eliminated the 
virus before it spread everywhere, but it's "politicially incorrect" to 
advocate for sane public health measure these days.

I have a friend with MS.  He is terrified to leave the house, is having 
groceries delivered.  If he gets it, he's very, very likely to end up dead.  
I'm high risk -- 64, out of shape, history of asthma and heart disease.  I 
don't want to die early either.

Wear your dd mask!


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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

If you just start with testing all symptomatic people and then testing and
isolating their contacts, you can control it. You need to test until you
get less than 3% positive results, and you need to find and isolate all
contacts of known cases within a day. The masks and distancing also help
somewhat, so it doesn't have to be either/or. Places like Taiwan, S. Korea,
Singapore and China are using cell phones to trace cases and contacts and
anyone new to the country in pretty sophisticated ways. If you go to
Taiwan, they take your cell number and put you in quarantine. If your phone
doesn't move for an hour, they call you to make sure you didn't leave it at
home. If you don't answer, some dudes in uniform show up at your door to
make sure you are there and nowhere else. In seoul, if anyone in your apt
building tests positive, you get a call that you may have been exposed and
you are asked to go downstairs to the pop up kiosk to be tested, and they
text you results in about 6 hours. S. Korea learned the hard way with SARS
and MERS so they put all this into play very rapidly the moment there was
any word out of China that something was going on. Anyway we know how to
control it. Only question is whether we want to.

On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 7:17 AM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> The problem with isolation is the 2 week waiting period, it's very hard to
> know who to isolate until it's too late
> Curt
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>   On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:08 PM, OK Don wrote:   From
> what I understand (which isn't much), Covid-19 is in the same virus family
> as the common cold, while the flu is an influenza virus - a totally
> different family. No one has been able to develop a vaccine for the cold,
> but we do have marginally effective vaccines for the flu.If my assumptions
> are correct, expecting a vaccine for Covid-19 to be effective is an
> exercise in wishful thinking that will lead no where.
> I think that Karl is correct in that if we contain this virus via
> isolation so it can't spread beyond those it has infected already, we can
> stop it in it's tracks and all of us don't have to get it.However, given
> that a lot of Americans don't trust and won't listen to those who know
> about this stuff, from the President on down, there is no hope of stopping
> it. We will all get it, many of us will be very sick and permanently
> debilitated by it, and too many will die from it. That having been said,
> the planet is over populated ...
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:50 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> Karl,
> Does anybody honestly believe the numbers coming out of China? I find them
> so low as to be a joke...
> I'm with Rick, we're all going to get this eventually, it's essentially a
> new, much worse, flu. Get used to the idea now. This who are waiting for a
> vaccine ignore the fact that the record for a vaccine release is 4 years.
> Curt
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>   On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:52 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   Rick I won't tell either of them that you
> said they were fat or unhealthy
> :-) Picture very fit, active, healthy moms in their 40s and you will have
> the idea.
>
> My point is exactly that: many people (including me) want to minimize this
> thing by thinking that all the people getting sick are somehow not like
> them, but this is not the case. Statistically sure most young healthy
> people are not going to die from it. But it still makes normal, otherwise
> healthy, middle age people very sick in a way that influenza does not, over
> a much longer interval measured in weeks rather than days. I am talking
> about not being able to speak in full sentences for weeks, being short of
> breath talking on the phone. Having pain in your lungs when you breathe.
> For weeks.
>
> I think the flu comparison article I posted speaks to this. Covid deaths
> this year are multiples of influenza deaths even in a bad year.
>
> Exercise is always good, as is eating right, not smoking and not being fat.
>
> I am not trying to alarm anyone, or advocate for any particular response,
> other than to rank it higher on the list of threats in your thinking than
> the flu, take appropriate precautions, etc. Saying we are all going to get
> it is rather defeatist when it is clearly possible to suppress to virtually
> zero e.g. Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, Singapore, S. Korea. I dont think any
> of us want to give it to our parents or elderly friends. Wash hands, wear a
> mask if you are close to vulnerable people for more than 30 minutes in a
> poorly ventilated space, these are sensible precautions that don't cost
> much. Maybe we will start to track it better so we dont end up shutting the
> whole economy down.
>
> Ok maybe I was silly to bring it up, especially for Euan in New Zealand
> where they dont even have any of this disease.
>
> Maybe the meth jokes arent so bad after all.
>
> 

Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Yes it's too early to say whether any vaccine will be forthcoming and if it
does come, what sort of durable immunity it will provide. Those studies
take years typically. Not sure anyone is going to want to take a vaccine if
it may not provide more than a few months' immunity.

Thankfully SARS and MERS were known to generate immunity lasting years. So
the most closely related viruses to this one seem at least to have the
possibility of lasting immunity.

Infection with seasonal coronaviruses on the other hand does not provide
any durable immunity and it is possible to become infected with the same
virus type multiple times within a single cold season. This is why some
people are saying covid-19 may not generate a durable immune response. But
in Italy and other countries, reinfections seem very rare if not altogether
absent. Some people shed viral RNA for a long time, but that does not mean
they become sick again or were reinfected.

It is possible to control, but it would take a massive effort that would
likely require national leadership of a type that has not been forthcoming.
Public Health police powers are very broad. Health departments or the CDC
could easily request location data from google and apple and they would be
legally compelled to provide it under existing law. But the mandate for CDC
to begin an all out war on the virus through test and trace has not been
given to them. States like CA and NY are training armies of contact tracers
and amping up testing ability, so we may see some aggressive local and
state efforts to bring this thing to heel in areas where it has killed a
lot of people.

I spoke with a Dr. buddy in Sweden today. He said their medical community
is a bit split on whether they have done enough to combat the virus. But
practically speaking they have all been isolating for a couple of months
and their kids have been out of school for similar periods of time. So even
though they had not mandatory shut down, they had pretty high levels of
civic self-isolation. They have more deaths than surrounding countries, but
less than we do, or Spain or some other European countries.

It will be interesting to see what happens with loosening. We have seen a
bit of an uptick over the past few days where I work. Practically speaking,
I actually think there is pretty good anecdotal evidence from 1918 that the
cities where aggressive control measures were taken earliest had the most
rapid and complete economic recoveries. So I think it is in everyone's best
interest for the Feds to lead a gumshoe epidemiology effort to squash this
thing. The virus may have to kill a lot more people to generate enough
political support across the board for such an effort, but I actually see
this more as a virus vs human thing, rather than a blue vs red thing. The
virus will always be the best advocate for its own control. If someone has
to convince someone else it is bad, then it must not be that bad - yet. It
would be great if it just never got that bad in less urban areas, but rural
America skews very old in terms of demographics and it may just grind along
at a slower rate in those areas than it did on the subway in NYC. We still
don't know why NYC was harder hit than CA, but public transit and perhaps
more importation of infected people along with some earlier lockdown
measures out west may account for the difference. I think 15% of the
world's coronavirus deaths have now happened in and around NYC including
NJ, CT etc.

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 6:09 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> From what I understand (which isn't much), Covid-19 is in the same virus
> family as the common cold, while the flu is an influenza virus - a totally
> different family. No one has been able to develop a vaccine for the cold,
> but we do have marginally effective vaccines for the flu.
> If my assumptions are correct, expecting a vaccine for Covid-19 to be
> effective is an exercise in wishful thinking that will lead no where.
>
> I think that Karl is correct in that if we contain this virus via
> isolation so it can't spread beyond those it has infected already, we can
> stop it in it's tracks and all of us don't have to get it.
> However, given that a lot of Americans don't trust and won't listen to
> those who know about this stuff, from the President on down, there is no
> hope of stopping it. We will all get it, many of us will be very sick and
> permanently debilitated by it, and too many will die from it. That having
> been said, the planet is over populated ...
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:50 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Karl,
> > Does anybody honestly believe the numbers coming out of China? I find
> them
> > so low as to be a joke...
> > I'm with Rick, we're all going to get this eventually, it's essentially a
> > new, much worse, flu. Get used to the idea now. This who are waiting for
> a
> > vaccine ignore the fact that the record for a vaccine release is 4 years.
> > Curt
> >
> > 

Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Kind of hard to say if the deaths and cases out of China are accurate. Take
the death of the ophthalmologist guy who blew the whistle on the whole
epidemic, for example. Russia is another case in point where medical
professionals start to fall out of windows if they say anything too far out
of line. We don't know anything they don't want us to know. We have some
ideas from urn orders by mortuaries etc that the death toll in China was
considerably higher than published.

Having said that, none of the official death numbers are accurate, from any
country. They all undercount the true death toll because people were dying
of this disease in nursing homes etc before anyone was testing for it. It
was true in Italy and it was and is true here. Similarly for the lower
working class in major cities here - they cannot afford to not work and
they are not about to go and get tested and told they need to stay home.
Looking at excess deaths for this time of year compared to other years is
likely to be the best way to tell how many people covid 19 ended up
killing. It takes time for those numbers to roll in, though.

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 5:49 PM Curt Raymond  wrote:

> Karl,
>
> Does anybody honestly believe the numbers coming out of China? I find them
> so low as to be a joke...
>
> I'm with Rick, we're all going to get this eventually, it's essentially a
> new, much worse, flu. Get used to the idea now. This who are waiting for a
> vaccine ignore the fact that the record for a vaccine release is 4 years.
>
> Curt
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:52 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> Rick I won't tell either of them that you said they were fat or unhealthy
> :-) Picture very fit, active, healthy moms in their 40s and you will have
> the idea.
>
> My point is exactly that: many people (including me) want to minimize this
> thing by thinking that all the people getting sick are somehow not like
> them, but this is not the case. Statistically sure most young healthy
> people are not going to die from it. But it still makes normal, otherwise
> healthy, middle age people very sick in a way that influenza does not, over
> a much longer interval measured in weeks rather than days. I am talking
> about not being able to speak in full sentences for weeks, being short of
> breath talking on the phone. Having pain in your lungs when you breathe.
> For weeks.
>
> I think the flu comparison article I posted speaks to this. Covid deaths
> this year are multiples of influenza deaths even in a bad year.
>
> Exercise is always good, as is eating right, not smoking and not being fat.
>
> I am not trying to alarm anyone, or advocate for any particular response,
> other than to rank it higher on the list of threats in your thinking than
> the flu, take appropriate precautions, etc. Saying we are all going to get
> it is rather defeatist when it is clearly possible to suppress to virtually
> zero e.g. Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, Singapore, S. Korea. I dont think any
> of us want to give it to our parents or elderly friends. Wash hands, wear a
> mask if you are close to vulnerable people for more than 30 minutes in a
> poorly ventilated space, these are sensible precautions that don't cost
> much. Maybe we will start to track it better so we dont end up shutting the
> whole economy down.
>
> Ok maybe I was silly to bring it up, especially for Euan in New Zealand
> where they dont even have any of this disease.
>
> Maybe the meth jokes arent so bad after all.
>
> As you were.
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020, 2:28 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Karl inquires:
> >
> > >How many people do you know who have died of the flu?
> >
> > With or of? A few over the years with, none of.
> > I do have know someone who was very close to death from H1N1 in 2009.
> > From, not with. She is still not 100% a decade later. That is/was a VERY
> > nasty virus that directly killed a lot of otherwise healthy people.
> >
> > >The mom of my 3rd grader's classmate has been in >the hospital for about
> > 6 weeks and a colleague of >mine at the hospital was out of work for 5
> > weeks >and still cant breathe well when she lies flat. 40yo RN
> >
> > Estimated BMI over 30? Other comorbidities?
> >
> > Sorry folks, if you are fat, out of shape, or have other health issues,
> > address what you can. The curve has been flattened, but the area under
> the
> > curve has not. Meaning whoever was going to get this virus is still going
> > to get it, just later this year or next. Meaning we will have to fight
> off
> > not only Covid 19, but influenza a or influenza b, AND Covid 19
> > concomitantly. So, with that said,
> >
> > 1. If you smoke, quit. Now. I watched my mom and my brother pass from
> lung
> > cancer. I suspect death from this is 

Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Actually, isolation is the only way to stop the spread.  This is an unusual 
virus in that it's possible to actually stop the spread, difficulty is that it 
can have a long incubation period with virus shedding going on for some days 
before symptoms get bad enough to send someone in for testing.

This isn't the first time, either -- SARS and MERS are similar viruses, just 
much less transmissible.  Another long forgotten incident involved fur animals 
in Manchuria in the early part of the 1900s, when no vaccine was possible.  
That outbreak was traced back to harvesitng sick animals for fur, and was 
stopped by guess what, cloth masks and social distancing.

The key to stopping the spread is testing and contact tracing -- if people can 
be tested easily, it's possible to break the chain of transmission, and when no 
more people are getting infected, eventually the virus will no long reproduce.

My local county has always had a pretty strong public health department, and 
has been on top of tracing and testing since the start -- luckily, we are more 
or less remote here, and full state wide social restrictions were in place 
before the first cases showed up.  The result is that we have just over 200 
cases for 200,000 people and two deaths.  Case number per day is down to five 
or six, and I believe nearly all of them were people in observation for 
exposure.

Couple people refused to self isolate and were promptly served with stay at 
home orders by a local judge -- we still have quarantine laws on the books from 
when there were no antibiotics or vaccines for common illnesses like scarlet 
fever a measles.

while it may seem very harsh and draconian, the lockdown in China worked.  You 
have to understand the filtering of news there, but I suspect the reported case 
numbers are reasonably accurate -- if the Parry lies too much, they will be 
overthrown, it's how things work in China.  South Korea and Tiawan, both of 
whom had serious issues with SARS in the 90s, have very low cases as well.

One point more -- nightclubs opened in Seol, and at least 126 cases have come 
from a single club over a couple nights.  This is what I'm worried about with 
the lunatics that squeal about how their "rights" are being infringed by public 
health measures.  Only takes one jerk ignoring the health rules to infect 
hundreds of people in close quarters.  Ditto for the boob that insisted he run 
his barber shop in spite of the shutdown -- he's now positive and who knows how 
many of his clients are too as a result.

I definitely error on the side of caution, it's why I've driven a Benz for 
decades.  Hardly an imposition to wear a mask compared to getting really, 
really sick or killing my elderly mother.  We are not all isolated sovereign 
states with no responsibilities, we are a community and need to remember 
everyone is entitled to what we are.  Or as my Grandmother used to say "You 
have your rights, true -- until they run into mine, and you are standing on my 
toes"

Far too many people who blow on about their "right" to do whatever they want 
are notably absent when it's time to take responsibility for the results of 
their actions.
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Have they ever come out with a vaccine for the cold? Nope. Guess what causes 
the cold? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 15, 2020, at 10:45 PM, Clay via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> No news on the AIDS vaccine yet.  I do recall all the misinformation coming 
> from the “Authorities” and very expensive but non-functional treatments being 
> promulgated by the learned agency puppets.  For a vivid example just watch 
> “Dallas Buyer’s Club” movie.  This “new” situation is the same shuffling 
> dance to the same off key tune.
> 
> clay 
> 
> I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 15, 2020, at 4:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Karl,
>> Does anybody honestly believe the numbers coming out of China? I find them 
>> so low as to be a joke...
>> I'm with Rick, we're all going to get this eventually, it's essentially a 
>> new, much worse, flu. Get used to the idea now. This who are waiting for a 
>> vaccine ignore the fact that the record for a vaccine release is 4 years.
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

Mr. Mossberg would have something to say about that, in a size 12

On 5/16/20 8:39 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote:

...I'm coming to you this fall, and I'm going to punch you in the head... I 
would begin training...

I would also consult Mr. Colt and his friends on this matter.  A defense in 
depth is
more reliable, hence that thing about eggs and baskets.  I'm sure the same 
applies here.


It's about minimizing the risks.

Exactly.

-- Jim


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.


--
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The problem with isolation is the 2 week waiting period, it's very hard to know 
who to isolate until it's too late 
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:08 PM, OK Don wrote:   From what 
I understand (which isn't much), Covid-19 is in the same virus family as the 
common cold, while the flu is an influenza virus - a totally different family. 
No one has been able to develop a vaccine for the cold, but we do have 
marginally effective vaccines for the flu.If my assumptions are correct, 
expecting a vaccine for Covid-19 to be effective is an exercise in wishful 
thinking that will lead no where.
I think that Karl is correct in that if we contain this virus via isolation so 
it can't spread beyond those it has infected already, we can stop it in it's 
tracks and all of us don't have to get it.However, given that a lot of 
Americans don't trust and won't listen to those who know about this stuff, from 
the President on down, there is no hope of stopping it. We will all get it, 
many of us will be very sick and permanently debilitated by it, and too many 
will die from it. That having been said, the planet is over populated ...
On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:50 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 wrote:

Karl,
Does anybody honestly believe the numbers coming out of China? I find them so 
low as to be a joke...
I'm with Rick, we're all going to get this eventually, it's essentially a new, 
much worse, flu. Get used to the idea now. This who are waiting for a vaccine 
ignore the fact that the record for a vaccine release is 4 years.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 

  On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:52 PM, Karl Wittnebel via 
Mercedes wrote:   Rick I won't tell either of them that 
you said they were fat or unhealthy
:-) Picture very fit, active, healthy moms in their 40s and you will have
the idea.

My point is exactly that: many people (including me) want to minimize this
thing by thinking that all the people getting sick are somehow not like
them, but this is not the case. Statistically sure most young healthy
people are not going to die from it. But it still makes normal, otherwise
healthy, middle age people very sick in a way that influenza does not, over
a much longer interval measured in weeks rather than days. I am talking
about not being able to speak in full sentences for weeks, being short of
breath talking on the phone. Having pain in your lungs when you breathe.
For weeks.

I think the flu comparison article I posted speaks to this. Covid deaths
this year are multiples of influenza deaths even in a bad year.

Exercise is always good, as is eating right, not smoking and not being fat.

I am not trying to alarm anyone, or advocate for any particular response,
other than to rank it higher on the list of threats in your thinking than
the flu, take appropriate precautions, etc. Saying we are all going to get
it is rather defeatist when it is clearly possible to suppress to virtually
zero e.g. Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, Singapore, S. Korea. I dont think any
of us want to give it to our parents or elderly friends. Wash hands, wear a
mask if you are close to vulnerable people for more than 30 minutes in a
poorly ventilated space, these are sensible precautions that don't cost
much. Maybe we will start to track it better so we dont end up shutting the
whole economy down.

Ok maybe I was silly to bring it up, especially for Euan in New Zealand
where they dont even have any of this disease.

Maybe the meth jokes arent so bad after all.

As you were.

On Fri, May 15, 2020, 2:28 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Karl inquires:
>
> >How many people do you know who have died of the flu?
>
> With or of? A few over the years with, none of.
> I do have know someone who was very close to death from H1N1 in 2009.
> From, not with. She is still not 100% a decade later. That is/was a VERY
> nasty virus that directly killed a lot of otherwise healthy people.
>
> >The mom of my 3rd grader's classmate has been in >the hospital for about
> 6 weeks and a colleague of >mine at the hospital was out of work for 5
> weeks >and still cant breathe well when she lies flat. 40yo RN
>
> Estimated BMI over 30? Other comorbidities?
>
> Sorry folks, if you are fat, out of shape, or have other health issues,
> address what you can. The curve has been flattened, but the area under the
> curve has not. Meaning whoever was going to get this virus is still going
> to get it, just later this year or next. Meaning we will have to fight off
> not only Covid 19, but influenza a or influenza b, AND Covid 19
> concomitantly. So, with that said,
>
> 1. If you smoke, quit. Now. I watched my mom and my brother pass from lung
> cancer. I suspect death from this is similar.
> 2. If you have a BMI over 30, lose fat. Now. Diet is key. Stop putting
> garbage in your pie hole.
> 3. If you can tolerate hard aerobic exercise, do it every day. (Increase
> your VO2 max) This is a pulmonary disease. Increasing 

Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> ...I'm coming to you this fall, and I'm going to punch you in the head... I 
> would begin training...

I would also consult Mr. Colt and his friends on this matter.  A defense in 
depth is
more reliable, hence that thing about eggs and baskets.  I'm sure the same 
applies here.

> It's about minimizing the risks. 

Exactly.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 15 May 2020 20:08:20 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes
 wrote:

> That having been said, the planet is over populated ...

Actually, no, it is not.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Yet Ford has way lower accident rates.  It's a proven fact.*

*Driveway driving only

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 10:14 PM Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Thanks,Rick. All true
>
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020, 10:09 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > And actually minimizing risk is partially why most of us drive Mercedes.
> > Peter was in a crash that he was able to walk away from, because he
> > minimized his risks by driving a Mercedes. Wilton was in a very similar
> > crash, and was able to walk away because he was driving a Mercedes. Dr.
> > Booth was drawn to Mercedes because his wife was killed in a car
> accident.
> > His research drew him to the conclusion that Mercedes Benz automobiles
> were
> > the safest autos on the road.
> >
> > There. It's on topic now.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Clay via Mercedes]

No news on the AIDS vaccine yet.  I do recall all the misinformation coming 
from the “Authorities” and very expensive but non-functional treatments being 
promulgated by the learned agency puppets.  For a vivid example just watch 
“Dallas Buyer’s Club” movie.  This “new” situation is the same shuffling dance 
to the same off key tune.

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On May 15, 2020, at 4:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Karl,
> Does anybody honestly believe the numbers coming out of China? I find them so 
> low as to be a joke...
> I'm with Rick, we're all going to get this eventually, it's essentially a 
> new, much worse, flu. Get used to the idea now. This who are waiting for a 
> vaccine ignore the fact that the record for a vaccine release is 4 years.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Thanks,Rick. All true

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Fri, May 15, 2020, 10:09 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> And actually minimizing risk is partially why most of us drive Mercedes.
> Peter was in a crash that he was able to walk away from, because he
> minimized his risks by driving a Mercedes. Wilton was in a very similar
> crash, and was able to walk away because he was driving a Mercedes. Dr.
> Booth was drawn to Mercedes because his wife was killed in a car accident.
> His research drew him to the conclusion that Mercedes Benz automobiles were
> the safest autos on the road.
>
> There. It's on topic now.
>
> Rick
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

And actually minimizing risk is partially why most of us drive Mercedes. Peter 
was in a crash that he was able to walk away from, because he minimized his 
risks by driving a Mercedes. Wilton was in a very similar crash, and was able 
to walk away because he was driving a Mercedes. Dr. Booth was drawn to Mercedes 
because his wife was killed in a car accident. His research drew him to the 
conclusion that Mercedes Benz automobiles were the safest autos on the road. 

There. It's on topic now. 

Rick


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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Curt says:

>I'm with Rick, we're all going to get this eventually

I don't think everyone is going to get it. Statistics say herd immunity comes 
at 65-70% infection rates. That said, take all the precautions you can. I look 
at it like this. If Mike Tyson called you on the phone and said "I'm coming to 
you this fall, and I'm going to punch you in the head twice, first with a left 
jab, then with a right hook. There is little to nothing you can do about it." I 
would find the best boxing trainer I could find, and I would begin training to 
defend myself against that combination of punches immediately. We have facts, 
and hard evidence that this is a mean virus. We know it is not going away.  We 
know the comorbidities. We know we can safely lose two pounds of fat a week. We 
know through healthy eating habits and an exercise regime we can reduce 
triglycerides, cholesterol, hypertension, and perhaps alleviate type 2 
diabetes. It's about minimizing the risks. 

If exercise was a pill, with the benefits it provides, it would probably cost 
$15,000 a month. 

Rick
Who was and is definitely NOT a jock. 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[OK Don via Mercedes]

From what I understand (which isn't much), Covid-19 is in the same virus
family as the common cold, while the flu is an influenza virus - a totally
different family. No one has been able to develop a vaccine for the cold,
but we do have marginally effective vaccines for the flu.
If my assumptions are correct, expecting a vaccine for Covid-19 to be
effective is an exercise in wishful thinking that will lead no where.

I think that Karl is correct in that if we contain this virus via
isolation so it can't spread beyond those it has infected already, we can
stop it in it's tracks and all of us don't have to get it.
However, given that a lot of Americans don't trust and won't listen to
those who know about this stuff, from the President on down, there is no
hope of stopping it. We will all get it, many of us will be very sick and
permanently debilitated by it, and too many will die from it. That having
been said, the planet is over populated ...

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:50 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Karl,
> Does anybody honestly believe the numbers coming out of China? I find them
> so low as to be a joke...
> I'm with Rick, we're all going to get this eventually, it's essentially a
> new, much worse, flu. Get used to the idea now. This who are waiting for a
> vaccine ignore the fact that the record for a vaccine release is 4 years.
> Curt
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>   On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:52 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   Rick I won't tell either of them that you
> said they were fat or unhealthy
> :-) Picture very fit, active, healthy moms in their 40s and you will have
> the idea.
>
> My point is exactly that: many people (including me) want to minimize this
> thing by thinking that all the people getting sick are somehow not like
> them, but this is not the case. Statistically sure most young healthy
> people are not going to die from it. But it still makes normal, otherwise
> healthy, middle age people very sick in a way that influenza does not, over
> a much longer interval measured in weeks rather than days. I am talking
> about not being able to speak in full sentences for weeks, being short of
> breath talking on the phone. Having pain in your lungs when you breathe.
> For weeks.
>
> I think the flu comparison article I posted speaks to this. Covid deaths
> this year are multiples of influenza deaths even in a bad year.
>
> Exercise is always good, as is eating right, not smoking and not being fat.
>
> I am not trying to alarm anyone, or advocate for any particular response,
> other than to rank it higher on the list of threats in your thinking than
> the flu, take appropriate precautions, etc. Saying we are all going to get
> it is rather defeatist when it is clearly possible to suppress to virtually
> zero e.g. Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, Singapore, S. Korea. I dont think any
> of us want to give it to our parents or elderly friends. Wash hands, wear a
> mask if you are close to vulnerable people for more than 30 minutes in a
> poorly ventilated space, these are sensible precautions that don't cost
> much. Maybe we will start to track it better so we dont end up shutting the
> whole economy down.
>
> Ok maybe I was silly to bring it up, especially for Euan in New Zealand
> where they dont even have any of this disease.
>
> Maybe the meth jokes arent so bad after all.
>
> As you were.
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020, 2:28 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Karl inquires:
> >
> > >How many people do you know who have died of the flu?
> >
> > With or of? A few over the years with, none of.
> > I do have know someone who was very close to death from H1N1 in 2009.
> > From, not with. She is still not 100% a decade later. That is/was a VERY
> > nasty virus that directly killed a lot of otherwise healthy people.
> >
> > >The mom of my 3rd grader's classmate has been in >the hospital for about
> > 6 weeks and a colleague of >mine at the hospital was out of work for 5
> > weeks >and still cant breathe well when she lies flat. 40yo RN
> >
> > Estimated BMI over 30? Other comorbidities?
> >
> > Sorry folks, if you are fat, out of shape, or have other health issues,
> > address what you can. The curve has been flattened, but the area under
> the
> > curve has not. Meaning whoever was going to get this virus is still going
> > to get it, just later this year or next. Meaning we will have to fight
> off
> > not only Covid 19, but influenza a or influenza b, AND Covid 19
> > concomitantly. So, with that said,
> >
> > 1. If you smoke, quit. Now. I watched my mom and my brother pass from
> lung
> > cancer. I suspect death from this is similar.
> > 2. If you have a BMI over 30, lose fat. Now. Diet is key. Stop putting
> > garbage in your pie hole.
> > 3. If you can tolerate hard aerobic exercise, do it every day. (Increase
> > your VO2 max) This is a pulmonary disease. Increasing pulmonary function
> > 

Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Karl,
Does anybody honestly believe the numbers coming out of China? I find them so 
low as to be a joke...
I'm with Rick, we're all going to get this eventually, it's essentially a new, 
much worse, flu. Get used to the idea now. This who are waiting for a vaccine 
ignore the fact that the record for a vaccine release is 4 years.
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:52 PM, Karl Wittnebel via 
Mercedes wrote:   Rick I won't tell either of them that 
you said they were fat or unhealthy
:-) Picture very fit, active, healthy moms in their 40s and you will have
the idea.

My point is exactly that: many people (including me) want to minimize this
thing by thinking that all the people getting sick are somehow not like
them, but this is not the case. Statistically sure most young healthy
people are not going to die from it. But it still makes normal, otherwise
healthy, middle age people very sick in a way that influenza does not, over
a much longer interval measured in weeks rather than days. I am talking
about not being able to speak in full sentences for weeks, being short of
breath talking on the phone. Having pain in your lungs when you breathe.
For weeks.

I think the flu comparison article I posted speaks to this. Covid deaths
this year are multiples of influenza deaths even in a bad year.

Exercise is always good, as is eating right, not smoking and not being fat.

I am not trying to alarm anyone, or advocate for any particular response,
other than to rank it higher on the list of threats in your thinking than
the flu, take appropriate precautions, etc. Saying we are all going to get
it is rather defeatist when it is clearly possible to suppress to virtually
zero e.g. Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, Singapore, S. Korea. I dont think any
of us want to give it to our parents or elderly friends. Wash hands, wear a
mask if you are close to vulnerable people for more than 30 minutes in a
poorly ventilated space, these are sensible precautions that don't cost
much. Maybe we will start to track it better so we dont end up shutting the
whole economy down.

Ok maybe I was silly to bring it up, especially for Euan in New Zealand
where they dont even have any of this disease.

Maybe the meth jokes arent so bad after all.

As you were.

On Fri, May 15, 2020, 2:28 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Karl inquires:
>
> >How many people do you know who have died of the flu?
>
> With or of? A few over the years with, none of.
> I do have know someone who was very close to death from H1N1 in 2009.
> From, not with. She is still not 100% a decade later. That is/was a VERY
> nasty virus that directly killed a lot of otherwise healthy people.
>
> >The mom of my 3rd grader's classmate has been in >the hospital for about
> 6 weeks and a colleague of >mine at the hospital was out of work for 5
> weeks >and still cant breathe well when she lies flat. 40yo RN
>
> Estimated BMI over 30? Other comorbidities?
>
> Sorry folks, if you are fat, out of shape, or have other health issues,
> address what you can. The curve has been flattened, but the area under the
> curve has not. Meaning whoever was going to get this virus is still going
> to get it, just later this year or next. Meaning we will have to fight off
> not only Covid 19, but influenza a or influenza b, AND Covid 19
> concomitantly. So, with that said,
>
> 1. If you smoke, quit. Now. I watched my mom and my brother pass from lung
> cancer. I suspect death from this is similar.
> 2. If you have a BMI over 30, lose fat. Now. Diet is key. Stop putting
> garbage in your pie hole.
> 3. If you can tolerate hard aerobic exercise, do it every day. (Increase
> your VO2 max) This is a pulmonary disease. Increasing pulmonary function
> can only help.
> 4. Build some muscle. If you end up in the hospital for an extended
> period, more muscle mass will help.
> 5. Get some sunshine. Vitamin D is good for you.
>
> That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
> Obviously I am not a doctor, just an uneducated rube, and if this advice
> is offensive, so be it. If it is bad advise, please post credible links
> disproving it.
>
> Rick
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I had pneumonia when I was 22. Happened over Thanksgiving weekend. I was very 
fit, almost athletic, didn’t smoke or drink, and was in excellent health. I had 
what I thought was a cold with a nasty chest cough. within a day or two I was 
totally wiped out. Went to our walk in clinic at IU Med Center and they 
immediately admitted me to the hospital there.

That was the most debilitating illness I’ve ever had in my life. I was so weak 
I could barely hold a glass of water. It hurt to breathe. It took months to 
regain my strength and stamina. The first few weeks after I returned to work I 
worked half days because I was so wiped out by noon I didn’t have the strength 
to drive myself home.

I don’t know how this latest thing affects most people other than what I’ve 
seen and heard described, but I can tell you that without question, the flu, 
pneumonia and other diseases that affect the respiratory system like this are 
frightening. As soon as a pneumonia vaccine became available I got it. I 
learned to recognize the symptoms as I approached running myself down, which is 
what started it to begin with, and know when to “throttle back” so as not to 
compromise myself again.

I’m just saying - don’t think that getting something like pneumonia will be a 
transitional thing - it will affect you for months, maybe even years.

-D

> On May 15, 2020, at 7:51 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Rick I won't tell either of them that you said they were fat or unhealthy
> :-) Picture very fit, active, healthy moms in their 40s and you will have
> the idea.
> 
> My point is exactly that: many people (including me) want to minimize this
> thing by thinking that all the people getting sick are somehow not like
> them, but this is not the case. Statistically sure most young healthy
> people are not going to die from it. But it still makes normal, otherwise
> healthy, middle age people very sick in a way that influenza does not, over
> a much longer interval measured in weeks rather than days. I am talking
> about not being able to speak in full sentences for weeks, being short of
> breath talking on the phone. Having pain in your lungs when you breathe.
> For weeks.
> 
> I think the flu comparison article I posted speaks to this. Covid deaths
> this year are multiples of influenza deaths even in a bad year.
> 
> Exercise is always good, as is eating right, not smoking and not being fat.
> 
> I am not trying to alarm anyone, or advocate for any particular response,
> other than to rank it higher on the list of threats in your thinking than
> the flu, take appropriate precautions, etc. Saying we are all going to get
> it is rather defeatist when it is clearly possible to suppress to virtually
> zero e.g. Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, Singapore, S. Korea. I dont think any
> of us want to give it to our parents or elderly friends. Wash hands, wear a
> mask if you are close to vulnerable people for more than 30 minutes in a
> poorly ventilated space, these are sensible precautions that don't cost
> much. Maybe we will start to track it better so we dont end up shutting the
> whole economy down.
> 
> Ok maybe I was silly to bring it up, especially for Euan in New Zealand
> where they dont even have any of this disease.
> 
> Maybe the meth jokes arent so bad after all.
> 
> As you were.
> 
> On Fri, May 15, 2020, 2:28 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Karl inquires:
>> 
>>> How many people do you know who have died of the flu?
>> 
>> With or of? A few over the years with, none of.
>> I do have know someone who was very close to death from H1N1 in 2009.
>> From, not with. She is still not 100% a decade later. That is/was a VERY
>> nasty virus that directly killed a lot of otherwise healthy people.
>> 
>>> The mom of my 3rd grader's classmate has been in >the hospital for about
>> 6 weeks and a colleague of >mine at the hospital was out of work for 5
>> weeks >and still cant breathe well when she lies flat. 40yo RN
>> 
>> Estimated BMI over 30? Other comorbidities?
>> 
>> Sorry folks, if you are fat, out of shape, or have other health issues,
>> address what you can. The curve has been flattened, but the area under the
>> curve has not. Meaning whoever was going to get this virus is still going
>> to get it, just later this year or next. Meaning we will have to fight off
>> not only Covid 19, but influenza a or influenza b, AND Covid 19
>> concomitantly. So, with that said,
>> 
>> 1. If you smoke, quit. Now. I watched my mom and my brother pass from lung
>> cancer. I suspect death from this is similar.
>> 2. If you have a BMI over 30, lose fat. Now. Diet is key. Stop putting
>> garbage in your pie hole.
>> 3. If you can tolerate hard aerobic exercise, do it every day. (Increase
>> your VO2 max) This is a pulmonary disease. Increasing pulmonary function
>> can only help.
>> 4. Build some muscle. If you end up in the hospital for an extended
>> period, more muscle mass will help.
>> 5. Get 

Re: [MBZ] OT: The Bug was Re: Sticking my neck out

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Rick I won't tell either of them that you said they were fat or unhealthy
:-) Picture very fit, active, healthy moms in their 40s and you will have
the idea.

My point is exactly that: many people (including me) want to minimize this
thing by thinking that all the people getting sick are somehow not like
them, but this is not the case. Statistically sure most young healthy
people are not going to die from it. But it still makes normal, otherwise
healthy, middle age people very sick in a way that influenza does not, over
a much longer interval measured in weeks rather than days. I am talking
about not being able to speak in full sentences for weeks, being short of
breath talking on the phone. Having pain in your lungs when you breathe.
For weeks.

I think the flu comparison article I posted speaks to this. Covid deaths
this year are multiples of influenza deaths even in a bad year.

Exercise is always good, as is eating right, not smoking and not being fat.

I am not trying to alarm anyone, or advocate for any particular response,
other than to rank it higher on the list of threats in your thinking than
the flu, take appropriate precautions, etc. Saying we are all going to get
it is rather defeatist when it is clearly possible to suppress to virtually
zero e.g. Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, Singapore, S. Korea. I dont think any
of us want to give it to our parents or elderly friends. Wash hands, wear a
mask if you are close to vulnerable people for more than 30 minutes in a
poorly ventilated space, these are sensible precautions that don't cost
much. Maybe we will start to track it better so we dont end up shutting the
whole economy down.

Ok maybe I was silly to bring it up, especially for Euan in New Zealand
where they dont even have any of this disease.

Maybe the meth jokes arent so bad after all.

As you were.

On Fri, May 15, 2020, 2:28 PM Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Karl inquires:
>
> >How many people do you know who have died of the flu?
>
> With or of? A few over the years with, none of.
> I do have know someone who was very close to death from H1N1 in 2009.
> From, not with. She is still not 100% a decade later. That is/was a VERY
> nasty virus that directly killed a lot of otherwise healthy people.
>
> >The mom of my 3rd grader's classmate has been in >the hospital for about
> 6 weeks and a colleague of >mine at the hospital was out of work for 5
> weeks >and still cant breathe well when she lies flat. 40yo RN
>
> Estimated BMI over 30? Other comorbidities?
>
> Sorry folks, if you are fat, out of shape, or have other health issues,
> address what you can. The curve has been flattened, but the area under the
> curve has not. Meaning whoever was going to get this virus is still going
> to get it, just later this year or next. Meaning we will have to fight off
> not only Covid 19, but influenza a or influenza b, AND Covid 19
> concomitantly. So, with that said,
>
> 1. If you smoke, quit. Now. I watched my mom and my brother pass from lung
> cancer. I suspect death from this is similar.
> 2. If you have a BMI over 30, lose fat. Now. Diet is key. Stop putting
> garbage in your pie hole.
> 3. If you can tolerate hard aerobic exercise, do it every day. (Increase
> your VO2 max) This is a pulmonary disease. Increasing pulmonary function
> can only help.
> 4. Build some muscle. If you end up in the hospital for an extended
> period, more muscle mass will help.
> 5. Get some sunshine. Vitamin D is good for you.
>
> That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
> Obviously I am not a doctor, just an uneducated rube, and if this advice
> is offensive, so be it. If it is bad advise, please post credible links
> disproving it.
>
> Rick
>
>
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