Re: [MD] Rhetoric
Dan, Ron, and All, Ron, thank you for your responses. Your perspective of gumption traps certainly helps to apply MOQ wisdom to everyday life and the perennial problems that come up. ZMM anchored "Caring" very well in my brain as the frame of mind with which to meet Life, but I had forgotten about gumption traps. I believe, Caring is part of the great Yes that philosophers speak of. It runs throughout the perennial guidelines toward Quality. Now that I think back, there was the gumption trap of not caring, the trap of being tired, the trap of being frustrated, and the trap of working in the wrong position. Would you say that Persig was also describing a gumption trap as the narrowness of mind that could not perceive a piece of a beer can as a BMW handlebar shim? Also, it is in my memory that Persig said that the list of gumption traps was too long to enumerate. Where does that lead in the quest to apply the idea of Quality to living? I suppose it presents us with the step of being mindful to ask ourselves: What are the Gumption Traps associated with the numerous situations we face during our lives...That is a lot of GTs. How about an encyclopedia of Gumption Traps, put together in the tradition of the Lila Squad? Ron, you mentioned Love of Wisdom, Seeking the Truth. Yes, that seems to be the right path alright. Would you talk about some of the logic traps you have found to be of most use to you? Is there a book on logic traps that you found especially helpful? How did you teach yourself the awareness to recognize those specific traps before you spoke or acted illogically? Finally, For Dan: Thank you also for your response. I wish I had some wisdom for you, knowledge to come to a new dynamic quality after losing a loved one. We are stuck with static clichés of condolences, preparing and delivering meals, taking part in the ancient ceremonies that deal with the loss of a loved one. I believe that you are right...this ranks right at the top of man's perennial problems. No, there are no classes for dealing with the anger and depression that come with losing someone. Maybe, bystanders fall into one of the gumption traps...trying to help someone else who is hurting from this loss. Most times, it just doesn't get it. What I have come across is the knowledge of others who have experienced that the minutes can finally become an hour and the hour, if you are fortunate, can become a day. Dolphin -Original Message- From: X Acto [mailto:xa...@rocketmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January, 4, 2017 11:25 PM To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 3, 2017, at 6:03 PM, ngriffis <ngrif...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > It is ironic that this chat room is based on the philosophy of > quality, as defined by Persig. > >Please, take a step away and let us talk about how someone, who > believes in MOQ, applies these same principles to their lives. I once > asked this board how they used the principals in their daily challenge > to live their life qualitatively. You guys were off and running onto > something else, but now I think it a good time to ask the question > again. How do the participants of this board use what they learned > from Persig to make their lives better? > >I have my faults. Everyone does. We are humans, but Persig pointed > out a guide to a better way. I think that is why all of us are here > talking about Zen and Art of MM, and Lila. He brought the idea of > Quality to our attention. But, Quality and Persig's message is useless > if we do not utilize the principles introduced. > >Here is another question for the circle. Where in ZMM does it speak > to how to apply and seek Quality in one's life? What does it say about > solving some of the basic and perennial human problems that we get > caught in over and over again? > > Dolphin, In ZMM, if you remember the passages about gumption traps and how the shop mechanics did a really poor job "fixing" Robert Pirsigs motorcycle because they didn't care about what they were doing, Then part of your inquiry has already been answered. Personally I do not "believe" in "the MOQ", I think it's an inaccuracy to approach RMPs work in that fashion. What I have gained from Robert Pirsigs work and from this community of contributors is the love of critical thinking. I apply the skills I've learned everyday in my environment and this has improved my life greatly. I am aware of traditional logic traps and how to recognize and avoid them. But basically Bob instilled in me a love for wisdom. As for Tuk, he was here with an agenda. He wields the tools of philosophy as a weapon. Rather carelessly I might add. -Ron . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
Re: [MD] Rhetoric
It is ironic that this chat room is based on the philosophy of quality, as defined by Persig. Please, take a step away and let us talk about how someone, who believes in MOQ, applies these same principles to their lives. I once asked this board how they used the principals in their daily challenge to live their life qualitatively. You guys were off and running onto something else, but now I think it a good time to ask the question again. How do the participants of this board use what they learned from Persig to make their lives better? I have my faults. Everyone does. We are humans, but Persig pointed out a guide to a better way. I think that is why all of us are here talking about Zen and Art of MM, and Lila. He brought the idea of Quality to our attention. But, Quality and Persig's message is useless if we do not utilize the principles introduced. Here is another question for the circle. Where in ZMM does it speak to how to apply and seek Quality in one's life? What does it say about solving some of the basic and perennial human problems that we get caught in over and over again? Namaste and Shanti says it pretty well, especially during the holidays and new year. Signing off, Dolphin -Original Message- From: Horse [mailto:ho...@darkstar.uk.net] Sent: Tuesday, January, 3, 2017 2:08 PM To: moq_discuss@lists.moqtalk.org Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric What are you on about? Are you a complete idiot or do you take the occasional day off? And if you want to carry on fucking with me then please go away and do it where someone gives a shit! On 03/01/2017 14:40, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote: > Horse, > > okay, but I achieved the same effect by asking you permission to do > so! You see, I'm just copulating with ya. > > Tuk > > > > > On 03-Jan-17 16:19, Horse wrote: >> No >> >> On 03/01/2017 10:08, m...@tuukkavirtaperko.net wrote: >>> Horse, >>> >>> GET BACK IN HERE AND TELL ME CAN I CALL RON A "DICKWAD" OR NOT >>> >>> It is funny because it's true. Wait, what is? >>> >>> It's true that by behaving this way I am actually acknowledging that >>> intellectual patterns depend on social patterns. They need social >>> patterns to survive. So I try to verify that my behavior is in >>> accordance with social norms. >>> >>> AND I'M STILL DOING IT WRONG >>> >>> But you don't have a category for the reason why it's wrong. I do, >>> and you refuse it because I have made it a humiliating thing to >>> accept. But your metaphysics doesn't explain this humiliating >>> feeling. It says you should thank me. Why don't you want to do so? >>> >>> Why don't you want to thank me for dominating sociality with >>> intellect while verifying that my behavior isn't socially >>> inappropriate? >>> >>> Tuk >>> >>> >>> >>> Lainaus m...@tuukkavirtaperko.net: >>> >>>> Horse, >>>> Can we change the mailing list rules? I need to call Ron a >>>> "dickwad" as a part of a dialectical technique that seems >>>> rhetorical to him because he doesn't understand it. >>>> >>>> Tuk >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Lainaus Tuukka Virtaperko <m...@tuukkavirtaperko.net>: >>>> >>>>> Ron, >>>>> >>>>> and why am I asking you this question that sounds so offensive? >>>>> >>>>> "What is so good about society that you would defend it against me?" >>>>> >>>>> I agree that sounds pretty selfish. But what's *wrong* about it >>>>> according to the MOQ? The MOQ doesn't state it's wrong to be selfish. >>>>> It states that intellect is superior to society. >>>>> >>>>> The point I am making here is a parody of what you believe in. It >>>>> is also a literally accurate implementation of your beliefs, if >>>>> you believe in Pirsig's MOQ, but it is so grotesque it is polite >>>>> to call it a parody. >>>>> >>>>> See, I was being polite to you. But I don't sound polite anymore >>>>> because I made a fuss of it. >>>>> >>>>> My current behavior lacks aesthetic appeal. You are capable of >>>>> intuitively perceiving this. But since you believe in Pirsig's MOQ >>>>> you are compelled to search for an explanation for your intuition >>>>> from the four boxes Pirsig gave to you. These are labeled >>>>> "inorganic", "biological&q
Re: [MD] Rhetoric
to get involved in discussions here that I can't devote my full attention to, this tirade is basically cathartic. I'm sick to death of your narcissism. Grow up, get a job and make yourself useful to society And have a great new year in the process. -Ron Sent from my iPhone On Jan 1, 2017, at 8:53 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko <m...@tuukkavirtaperko.net> wrote: The brain is not a muscle, Dave. If you're wrong, that's it. Tuk On 01-Jan-17 2:33, david wrote: Howdy, Adrie, MOQers all: I don't know about Chris Langan's CTMU but Tuukka's criticism is not correct. The MOQ does not include anything like Kant's noumenal reality or "things-in-themselves" and the MOQ holds that phenomenal reality is the only reality we can know. The phenomenal reality is NOT romantic quality. When Pirsig refers to Dynamic Quality as "direct everyday experience," "the primary empirical reality," or quotes William James referring to "the immediate flux of reality," and "pure experience" he is talking about phenomenal reality as such. Tuukka's claims to have improved the MOQ are quite preposterous. Obviously, there's no way to "improve" the MOQ or create an alternative without understanding it first. Buyer beware. From: Moq_Discuss <moq_discuss-boun...@lists.moqtalk.org> on behalf of Adrie Kintziger <parser...@gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 6:43 AM To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric I think its good to read these materials.But things on wiki's are not always what they seem.Some are very deceptive. In fact, what this author is presenting here is actually nothing more than a collection of derivatives from Wittgensteins work on logic.It is spiced and salted with some previously known paradoxes in a new disguise. The best way of putting it ,in my opinion,is to regard it as a new attempt to launch the Tractatus-logico etc,explained with the terminology of a computerprogrammer, or a very strong logical thinker.And a very intelligent thinker,...clearly,this however does not prove him right in any way or field. I don't think it will generate clarifications on reality itself,or add new insights; it is kinda developed to work as an upide down gearbox,not shifting up, but in fact , shifting down further, in a halted car. I wished you would not take this as critisism, because it is'nt.You should explore these things, they are less boring than Wittgenstein,and he was not all that clever also. the only part of critics i have is about your statement, "competitor to the moq and amoq", There is no competion,connection,or game to win. 2016-12-31 8:52 GMT+01:00 Tuukka Virtaperko <m...@tuukkavirtaperko.net>: Chris Langan, developer of the CTMU, which is a competitor to the MOQ and AMOQ, does not understand the MOQ. Citing http://ctmucommunity.org/wiki/Cognitive-Theoretic_Model_of_t he_Universe *** On the other hand, mind acts as a filter: that which does not conform to mental categories is irrelevant to perception, and therefore not real. Langan here breaks with Kant, who posited a noumenal reality of "things-in-themselves", independent of the phenomenal reality we perceive. Discarding this "Kantian fallacy", Langan rejects noumena as oxymoronic "inconceivable concepts"[21] and holds that phenomenal reality, as the only reality we can know, is the only reality there is. *** This means Langan's understanding of philosophy is at the level of ZAMM. It is not at the level of LILA. The phenomenal reality is romantic quality. Langan is oblivious to Dynamic Quality. Tuk --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus [https://static2.avast.com/11/web/min/i/mkt/share/avast-logo.png]<https://www.avast.com/antivirus> Avast | Download Free Antivirus for PC, Mac & Android<https://www.avast.com/antivirus> www.avast.com Protect your devices with the best free antivirus on the market. Download Avast antivirus and anti-spyware protection for your PC, Mac and Android. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html MOQ Online - MOQ_Discuss<http://moq.org/md/archives.html> moq.org The MOQ_Discuss mailing list has been moved to a new hosting company and a new mailing list server. The old system was becoming more unreliable by the day and the ... -- parser Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/m
Re: [MD] Rhetoric
provided by Pirsig and >> >>> explain the assignment >> >>> >> >>> or: >> >>> >> >>> - Assume that you need more categories (which I have provided) >> >>> >> >>> so, which one is it going to be? >> >>> >> >>> Tuk >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On 02-Jan-17 14:06, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote: >> >>>> Ron, >> >>>> >> >>>> what is so good about society that you would defend it against me? >> >>>> >> >>>> Tuk >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On 02-Jan-17 13:32, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote: >> >>>>> Ron, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> If someone can devote time and effort for researching the >> purported topic of this mailing list, it is regarded by someone else as >> a bad thing. That someone else is put off by himself having a job which >> precludes him from participating except in a mediocre way. However, >> Phaedrus's aim in ZAMM was not to define or discover or understand >> mediocrity. It was to understand excellence. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Tuk >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On 02-Jan-17 13:22, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote: >> >>>>>> Please consider what it does to a person not to have a credible >> intellectual authority as a child. You are implying that I have caused >> this burden to fall upon me. But I have not caused the ineptitude of >> others. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> When you are sick to death of my narcissism, you are sick to >> death of how insignificant it makes you feel. You think you are entitled >> to feel better. I think I am also entitled to feel better. But we don't, >> do we? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Is the psychiatrist who put me on pension making a useful >> contribution to society? If not, why should I? >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Tuk >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On 01-Jan-17 18:01, X Acto wrote: >> >>>>>>> Tuk, >> >>>>>>> I guess everyone is being nice to you or ignoring you because >> you're a "man-child" with out a job or purpose who lives in his parents >> basement mentally masturbating to what he thinks is his own genius. When >> in fact he is basing his entire argument on a logical fallacy. >> >>>>>>> You may be a genius when it comes to logical functions but when >> it comes to critical thinking skills you can't reason yourself out of a >> wet paper bag. >> >>>>>>> Things aren't quiet because you are right and no one can stand >> up to your towering intellect . It's that you're so wrong no one has the >> time or energy to prove it to you and your immense ego. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Since I have made a New Years resolution not to get involved in >> discussions here that I can't devote my full attention to, this tirade >> is basically cathartic. I'm sick to death of your narcissism. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Grow up, get a job and make yourself useful to society And have >> a great new year in the process. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> -Ron >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On Jan 1, 2017, at 8:53 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko < >> m...@tuukkavirtaperko.net> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> The brain is not a muscle, Dave. If you're wrong, that's it. >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Tuk >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> On 01-Jan-17 2:33, david wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> Howdy, Adrie, MOQers all: &g
Re: [MD] Rhetoric
Adrie, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icCIkh-FL8A I love this song. This is our song. The song of me and... someone else I didn't have time to meet. The lyrics go: *** Do not believe in songs They turn you into a dreamer They may make you dig into things from which your mind is trying to protect you They tend to mess up all your thoughts and leave you in chaos Every one of us is a path to somewhere but wisdom lies in understanding who to follow for long and when to turn away and that you can never travel into yourself through someone else All infinite beauty, all absurdity All lashing wishes, all indecision are pieces of meaning in the end part of the enigma The lights on the brinks of darknesses Remember that all those greatest horrors are the mirror image of your wishes Invert them and you'll find their keys in your hand and that it's easier to forgive me than be bent on resentment All infinite beauty, all absurdity All lashing wishes, all indecision are pieces of meaning in the end part of the enigma AND A PART OF THE TRUTH The lights on the brinks of darknesses are sometimes dim and scarce Inside you there's an ocean of strength which you can harness as your guide This is just an empty shell that you must fill This is the brightest of the lights This is the endless night This is a heartbeat This is timelessness The lights on the brinks of darknesses The lights on the brinks of darknesses The lights on the brinks of darknesses are scarce but there All infinite beauty, all absurdity All lashing wishes, all indecision are pieces of meaning in the end part of the enigma The lights on the brinks of darknesses Do not believe in songs *** Someone I respect said something about people like me not necessarily living to be old. But you might not like having me around in the first place. I like having me around. Tuk --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
Re: [MD] Rhetoric and Madness
Thanks Arlo, Hopefully it will be read by those Who think there is an oppressive Dogmatism imposed on the MD. It probably will not make an impression but hey, here's to trying, -Ron On Aug 26, 2014, at 12:44 PM, ARLO JAMES BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote: [Ron] All (especially the true MOQers of the Lila squad) I found this paper some years ago, I don't know who authored it but it's quite a nice paper. ... Rhetoric and Madness: Robert Pirsig's Inquiry into Values. [Arlo] This article appeared in the Southern Speech Communication Journal, Volume 43, Issue 1, 1977. The author is Scott Consigny. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
Re: [MD] Rhetoric and Madness
[Ron] All (especially the true MOQers of the Lila squad) I found this paper some years ago, I don't know who authored it but it's quite a nice paper. ... Rhetoric and Madness: Robert Pirsig's Inquiry into Values. [Arlo] This article appeared in the Southern Speech Communication Journal, Volume 43, Issue 1, 1977. The author is Scott Consigny. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
On Monday 11 May 2009 10:39 AM Ron suggests: A must read, I recommend to Both Marsha and especially Bo. http://www.public.iastate.edu/~consigny/pirsig.html Hi Ron and all, I am not a scientist or a mathematician! The ³I² at the beginning of the previous sentence is a conceptualized construct. Is the procedure for conceptualizing MOQ resulting in meaningful discourse the same as conceptualizing the ³I² of the first sentence? ³I² accept conceptualizing the inorganic level from the point of view of the MOQ DQ/SQ. DQ is undefined Quantum and SQ is defined 1. If the meaning can be elaborated by song, dance, and picture, determines whether the conceptualization is useful. SOM conceptualizes evolution as an afterthought. SOM conceptualizes the creation of a body/soul by a deity. The soul has two faculties mind/will. SOM conceptualizes the creation of everything, perhaps through evolution, from the Will of an Absolute. E.g., Bo pointed out that although evolution to the intellectual level has manifested in Islamic culture, the Taliban are conceptualizing at the social level for metaphysical reality. They conceptualize their formulation for social morality from an appeal to the will of an all-powerful deity, not from intellectual laws and customs. imho Conceptualizing from evolution: the inorganic level DQ/SQ, DQ Quantum, is conceptualized as a Big Bang, SQ as 1. The organic level DQ/SQ, DQ is conceptualized as life, from the inorganic SQ 1. The social (emotional) level DQ/SQ, DQ is conceptualized as creator-god, from the organic SQ life. The intellectual level DQ/SQ DQ is conceptualized as Evolution, from the social (emotional) SQ creator-god. What are the metaphysics of conceptualization? MOQ! Only from a metaphysical perspective of defined/undefined can there be the conceptualization of a DQ/SQ evolution into levels! Conventional sounds and gestures are used as signs of the intelligence needed for communication. Conceptualization of the levels of evolution follows an intelligent design. Sounds produced by some organic capabilities evolved into intelligible speech that can be conceptualized as evolution to the social level. How are metaphysical changes communicated as evolution DQ/SQ? Communication of an individual¹s conceptualization is obscure and difficult.. Don¹t give up imho is a working tool. What does it mean that at the inorganic level DQ/SQ self-conceptualization does not exist, yet can be described mathematically? Does this in any way create a rule for logical discourse? I can¹t use DQ as an integer 0 in a formula of division. Does this limit the use of logic in a discussion? imho evolution is consistent DQ/SQ in 4 or 7 levels? Evolution to the Intellectual level does not destroy the inorganic level! ³I² am thirsty! Joe On 5/11/09 10:39 AM, X Acto xa...@rocketmail.com wrote: A must read, I recomend to Both Marsha and especially Bo. http://www.public.iastate.edu/~consigny/pirsig.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: ( Another Brick in the Mauer part 4 )
[Joe] Communication of an individual¹s conceptualization is obscure and difficult ... [Andrew] Roger that, Joe. Yours in jest ... as always ... --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Joseph Maurer jh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Joseph Maurer jh...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 9:30 PM On Monday 11 May 2009 10:39 AM Ron suggests: A must read, I recommend to Both Marsha and especially Bo. http://www.public.iastate.edu/~consigny/pirsig.html Hi Ron and all, I am not a scientist or a mathematician! The ³I² at the beginning of the previous sentence is a conceptualized construct. Is the procedure for conceptualizing MOQ resulting in meaningful discourse the same as conceptualizing the ³I² of the first sentence? ³I² accept conceptualizing the inorganic level from the point of view of the MOQ DQ/SQ. DQ is undefined Quantum and SQ is defined 1. If the meaning can be elaborated by song, dance, and picture, determines whether the conceptualization is useful. SOM conceptualizes evolution as an afterthought. SOM conceptualizes the creation of a body/soul by a deity. The soul has two faculties mind/will.. SOM conceptualizes the creation of everything, perhaps through evolution, from the Will of an Absolute. E.g., Bo pointed out that although evolution to the intellectual level has manifested in Islamic culture, the Taliban are conceptualizing at the social level for metaphysical reality. They conceptualize their formulation for social morality from an appeal to the will of an all-powerful deity, not from intellectual laws and customs. imho Conceptualizing from evolution: the inorganic level DQ/SQ, DQ Quantum, is conceptualized as a Big Bang, SQ as 1. The organic level DQ/SQ, DQ is conceptualized as life, from the inorganic SQ 1. The social (emotional) level DQ/SQ, DQ is conceptualized as creator-god, from the organic SQ life. The intellectual level DQ/SQ DQ is conceptualized as Evolution, from the social (emotional) SQ creator-god. What are the metaphysics of conceptualization? MOQ! Only from a metaphysical perspective of defined/undefined can there be the conceptualization of a DQ/SQ evolution into levels! Conventional sounds and gestures are used as signs of the intelligence needed for communication. Conceptualization of the levels of evolution follows an intelligent design. Sounds produced by some organic capabilities evolved into intelligible speech that can be conceptualized as evolution to the social level. How are metaphysical changes communicated as evolution DQ/SQ? Communication of an individual¹s conceptualization is obscure and difficult.. Don¹t give up imho is a working tool. What does it mean that at the inorganic level DQ/SQ self-conceptualization does not exist, yet can be described mathematically? Does this in any way create a rule for logical discourse? I can¹t use DQ as an integer 0 in a formula of division. Does this limit the use of logic in a discussion? imho evolution is consistent DQ/SQ in 4 or 7 levels? Evolution to the Intellectual level does not destroy the inorganic level! ³I² am thirsty! Joe On 5/11/09 10:39 AM, X Acto xa...@rocketmail.com wrote: A must read, I recomend to Both Marsha and especially Bo. http://www.public.iastate.edu/~consigny/pirsig.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
Sure Ron, I will read it, but who is the author? Marsha At 01:39 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: A must read, I recomend to Both Marsha and especially Bo. http://www.public.iastate.edu/~consigny/pirsig.html . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
I do not know, I was surfing at lunch and stumbled apon it, I thought the paper was well researched and rather interesting, finding some inkling to the author is proving difficult and time consuming, perhaps others will have luck but well worth the read. -Ron From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:52:59 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Sure Ron, I will read it, but who is the author? Marsha At 01:39 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: A must read, I recomend to Both Marsha and especially Bo. http://www.public.iastate.edu/~consigny/pirsig.html . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
[Ron] I do not know, I was surfing at lunch and stumbled apon it, I thought the paper was well researched and rather interesting, finding some inkling to the author is proving difficult and time consuming, perhaps others will have luck but well worth the read. [Krimel] It seems to be a student paper from an English class at the University of Iowa. Marsha I will read it, but who is the author? Ron A must read, I recomend to Both Marsha and especially Bo. http://www.public.iastate.edu/~consigny/pirsig.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
Ron, Why have you specifically highlighted the need for me to read this paper? I really want to know! You didn't offer it for general reading, you offered it to Bo and me. Please explain! What is it in this paper, which portion, is suppose to educate me into the correct MOQ perspective? Where have I gone wrong? What will correct my misguided point-of-view? Marsha At 02:29 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: I do not know, I was surfing at lunch and stumbled apon it, I thought the paper was well researched and rather interesting, finding some inkling to the author is proving difficult and time consuming, perhaps others will have luck but well worth the read. -Ron From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:52:59 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Sure Ron, I will read it, but who is the author? Marsha At 01:39 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: A must read, I recomend to Both Marsha and especially Bo. http://www.public.iastate.edu/~consigny/pirsig.html . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
Ron, Maybe tomorrow while your munching your peanut butter and jelly sandwich, you can work on turning your opinion (as stated below) into something a little more substantial. At 01:57 PM 5/4/2009, Subject: [MD] science wars, Ron wrote: Marsha, I'm still working on the evidence, I have a rather half decent arguement for this position in the works but I feel we are both onto something, the realization that MoQ is an acultural conceptual pattern not so much a meta-intellectual one which is my arguement with Bo. thnx!! Marsha . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
gosh, I just thought it pertained to the conversation we were having, I thought Bo might dig it too since it focused on ZMM in particular. I just thought it was a good paper to read. I urged Bo to read it because it was researched and cited references for their assertions an element he could stand some brushing up on. From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 2:41:37 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Ron, Why have you specifically highlighted the need for me to read this paper? I really want to know! You didn't offer it for general reading, you offered it to Bo and me. Please explain! What is it in this paper, which portion, is suppose to educate me into the correct MOQ perspective? Where have I gone wrong? What will correct my misguided point-of-view? Marsha At 02:29 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: I do not know, I was surfing at lunch and stumbled apon it, I thought the paper was well researched and rather interesting, finding some inkling to the author is proving difficult and time consuming, perhaps others will have luck but well worth the read. -Ron From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:52:59 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Sure Ron, I will read it, but who is the author? Marsha At 01:39 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: A must read, I recomend to Both Marsha and especially Bo. http://www.public.iastate.edu/~consigny/pirsig.html . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
fine, don't read it. bye grumpy From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:06:19 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Ron, Maybe tomorrow while your munching your peanut butter and jelly sandwich, you can work on turning your opinion (as stated below) into something a little more substantial. At 01:57 PM 5/4/2009, Subject: [MD] science wars, Ron wrote: Marsha, I'm still working on the evidence, I have a rather half decent arguement for this position in the works but I feel we are both onto something, the realization that MoQ is an acultural conceptual pattern not so much a meta-intellectual one which is my arguement with Bo. thnx!! Marsha . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
Yes. At 03:23 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: did you read the paper? From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:20:34 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Ron, Where does it pertain to the conversation we were having? I was defending that patterns in the Intellectual Level were all of the subject/object variety. So gosh my foot... Marsha At 03:13 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: gosh, I just thought it pertained to the conversation we were having, I thought Bo might dig it too since it focused on ZMM in particular. I just thought it was a good paper to read. I urged Bo to read it because it was researched and cited references for their assertions an element he could stand some brushing up on. From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 2:41:37 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Ron, Why have you specifically highlighted the need for me to read this paper? I really want to know! You didn't offer it for general reading, you offered it to Bo and me. Please explain! What is it in this paper, which portion, is suppose to educate me into the correct MOQ perspective? Where have I gone wrong? What will correct my misguided point-of-view? Marsha At 02:29 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: I do not know, I was surfing at lunch and stumbled apon it, I thought the paper was well researched and rather interesting, finding some inkling to the author is proving difficult and time consuming, perhaps others will have luck but well worth the read. -Ron From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:52:59 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Sure Ron, I will read it, but who is the author? Marsha At 01:39 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: A must read, I recomend to Both Marsha and especially Bo. http://www.public.iastate.edu/~consigny/pirsig.html . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
better yet, forget it. I love you Marsha bye! From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:20:34 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Ron, Where does it pertain to the conversation we were having? I was defending that patterns in the Intellectual Level were all of the subject/object variety. So gosh my foot... Marsha At 03:13 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: gosh, I just thought it pertained to the conversation we were having, I thought Bo might dig it too since it focused on ZMM in particular. I just thought it was a good paper to read. I urged Bo to read it because it was researched and cited references for their assertions an element he could stand some brushing up on. From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 2:41:37 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Ron, Why have you specifically highlighted the need for me to read this paper? I really want to know! You didn't offer it for general reading, you offered it to Bo and me. Please explain! What is it in this paper, which portion, is suppose to educate me into the correct MOQ perspective? Where have I gone wrong? What will correct my misguided point-of-view? Marsha At 02:29 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: I do not know, I was surfing at lunch and stumbled apon it, I thought the paper was well researched and rather interesting, finding some inkling to the author is proving difficult and time consuming, perhaps others will have luck but well worth the read. -Ron From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:52:59 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Sure Ron, I will read it, but who is the author? Marsha At 01:39 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: A must read, I recomend to Both Marsha and especially Bo. http://www.public.iastate.edu/~consigny/pirsig.html . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
There is no Metaphysics of Quality or no hierarchical levels of patterns in ZMM. I love you too Ron. At 03:26 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: better yet, forget it. I love you Marsha bye! From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:20:34 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Ron, Where does it pertain to the conversation we were having? I was defending that patterns in the Intellectual Level were all of the subject/object variety. So gosh my foot... Marsha At 03:13 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: gosh, I just thought it pertained to the conversation we were having, I thought Bo might dig it too since it focused on ZMM in particular. I just thought it was a good paper to read. I urged Bo to read it because it was researched and cited references for their assertions an element he could stand some brushing up on. From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 2:41:37 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Ron, Why have you specifically highlighted the need for me to read this paper? I really want to know! You didn't offer it for general reading, you offered it to Bo and me. Please explain! What is it in this paper, which portion, is suppose to educate me into the correct MOQ perspective? Where have I gone wrong? What will correct my misguided point-of-view? Marsha At 02:29 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: I do not know, I was surfing at lunch and stumbled apon it, I thought the paper was well researched and rather interesting, finding some inkling to the author is proving difficult and time consuming, perhaps others will have luck but well worth the read. -Ron From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:52:59 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Sure Ron, I will read it, but who is the author? Marsha At 01:39 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: A must read, I recomend to Both Marsha and especially Bo. http://www.public.iastate.edu/~consigny/pirsig.html . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:36:44 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: There is no Metaphysics of Quality or no hierarchical levels of patterns in ZMM. I love you too Ron. At 03:26 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: better yet, forget it. I love you Marsha bye! From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:20:34 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Ron, Where does it pertain to the conversation we were having? I was defending that patterns in the Intellectual Level were all of the subject/object variety. So gosh my foot... Marsha At 03:13 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: gosh, I just thought it pertained to the conversation we were having, I thought Bo might dig it too since it focused on ZMM in particular. I just thought it was a good paper to read. I urged Bo to read it because it was researched and cited references for their assertions an element he could stand some brushing up on. From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 2:41:37 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Ron, Why have you specifically highlighted the need for me to read this paper? I really want to know! You didn't offer it for general reading, you offered it to Bo and me. Please explain! What is it in this paper, which portion, is suppose to educate me into the correct MOQ perspective? Where have I gone wrong? What will correct my misguided point-of-view? Marsha At 02:29 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: I do not know, I was surfing at lunch and stumbled apon it, I thought the paper was well researched and rather interesting, finding some inkling to the author is proving difficult and time consuming, perhaps others will have luck but well worth the read. -Ron From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:52:59 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Sure Ron, I will read it, but who is the author? Marsha At 01:39 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: A must read, I recomend to Both Marsha and especially Bo. http://www.public.iastate.edu/~consigny/pirsig.html . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness:
lila. From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:36:44 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: There is no Metaphysics of Quality or no hierarchical levels of patterns in ZMM. I love you too Ron. At 03:26 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: better yet, forget it. I love you Marsha bye! From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 3:20:34 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Ron, Where does it pertain to the conversation we were having? I was defending that patterns in the Intellectual Level were all of the subject/object variety. So gosh my foot... Marsha At 03:13 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: gosh, I just thought it pertained to the conversation we were having, I thought Bo might dig it too since it focused on ZMM in particular. I just thought it was a good paper to read. I urged Bo to read it because it was researched and cited references for their assertions an element he could stand some brushing up on. From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 2:41:37 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Ron, Why have you specifically highlighted the need for me to read this paper? I really want to know! You didn't offer it for general reading, you offered it to Bo and me. Please explain! What is it in this paper, which portion, is suppose to educate me into the correct MOQ perspective? Where have I gone wrong? What will correct my misguided point-of-view? Marsha At 02:29 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: I do not know, I was surfing at lunch and stumbled apon it, I thought the paper was well researched and rather interesting, finding some inkling to the author is proving difficult and time consuming, perhaps others will have luck but well worth the read. -Ron From: MarshaV marsh...@charter.net To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 1:52:59 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric and madness: Sure Ron, I will read it, but who is the author? Marsha At 01:39 PM 5/11/2009, you wrote: A must read, I recomend to Both Marsha and especially Bo. http://www.public.iastate.edu/~consigny/pirsig.html . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo
