Re: [Mpls] Whittier fund shifting

[Barbara Lickness]

I would like to provide some clarifying information in
reference to Tim's post.

The redirection of NRP funds that are being proposed
by the Whittier Alliance is done on a regular basis by
ALL NRP neighborhoods.  

Powderhorn completed a like redirection as did the
Corcoran neighborhood.  I am also processing a request
for Elliot Park. 

As neighborhoods head toward completion of their Phase
I action plan, NRP is asking them to perform
evaluations of their Phase I action plan and develop a
participation agreement to specify the decision making
structure and community outreach plans for planning
Phase II.  

The redirection of Whittier funds is being requested
to support the administrative effort necessary to
fulfill the tasks listed in the approved Whittier
participation agreement.  Whittier has already
completed their evaluation. 

Another point worth mentioning here is that Whittier
has spent a smaller percentage of their NRP funds on
Administration than all of the neighborhoods I work
with except for Powderhorn.

The NRP has a policy in place that determines the
approvals necessary to redirect NRP funds in any
neighborhood.  The redirection being requested by
Whittier is over $25,000 but less than 10% of the plan
total.  This redirection requires an all community
meeting to approve but does not require the approval
of the NRP Policy Board or the City Council.  This can
be approved by Bob Miller, NRP Director.

There is nothing subversive afloat here Tim.  Many
redirections of this nature have already been
completed in other neighborhoods and I suspect there
will be many more.  Neighborhoods were not asked to
plan for expenditures related to performing evaluation
and participation agreement development when
developing their Phase I action plans.  NRP is asking
neighborhoods to redirect remaining Phase I funds to
perform these tasks as there are limited funds
available for Phase II at this point.

Barb Lickness
Whittier
NRP Staff to 16 neighborhoods

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[Mpls] Re: what kid need to succeed

[Sueherr]

In a message dated 12/6/01 12:17:40 PM, wizard writes:

<< Some legitimate research group (Dennis Shapiro, member of
this list, could give you the name) reports that each and
every kid needs 41 different resources to succeed. Kids who
are not succeeding do not have 41 resources, they may not
have half that many. >>

sue responds:

Sorry for the delay in responding to this - the digests are stacked up like 
cordwood!  I thought I'd mention, since Denny hasn't, that Wizard is 
referring to research conducted by the Minneapolis-based Search Institute.  I 
saw Dr. Peter Benson present this work several years ago now - he calls these 
resources "developmental assets".  There are 41 assets in total - I think the 
average child had about 20 in their life - and we need to see around 30 for 
us to be able to predict that the child will succeed.  Some of the assets are 
internal to the child (ie commitment to learning, social competencies) and 
some are external factors supplied by family and community (appropriate 
boundaries, focus on school).   The most interesting thing that I remember is 
that, since he did a big piece of the original research right here in 
Minneapolis, he had a large enough sample to break it down and analyze it by 
geography.  And living right here in affluent SW Minneapolis was really no 
guarantee that a child would have adequate assets in their lives - these kids 
had more, but not that many more, than kids from the north side.  His work 
was really more  of a challenge to get communities to pay attention to and 
address the problems of children as a whole - not any particular race or 
class.I remember well that one example that he gave was the asset 
"consistent contact with one "elder" who is not a family member".  Something 
that children used to have on a regular basis one generation ago, but in 
today's increasingly age-segregated society, not all that common (remember, 
we're talking about contact with someone other than grandma or grandpa).  He 
said that churches and synagogues offered one of the rare opportunities for 
this kind of important intergenerational contact. So we immediately set to 
work to develop an intergenerational "partner" program at my church - but 
that's another story!  
Its work worth reviewing - you can catch it at 
www.search-institute.org.assets 

Susan Herridge
Lynnhurst

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[Mpls] List member get-together?

[List Manager]

Another list member mentioned to me this afternoon that it was time for
a face-to-face gathering. We haven't had one for awhile, so it seemed
like a good idea to me.

Of course, she's just an idea person, and I'm already emitting my sweat
equity, so is anyone up for organizing a gathering? I guess early
January would be the soonest we could do it, but I'll leave that up to
the organizer.

Self-nominations welcome; email the list.

Potential organizers can propose location, alcohol/smoking inclusion,
etc. Once we have proposals, the rest of us can comment (in other words,
don't throw party suggestions out right away - just self-nominations, to
reduce initial list traffic).

Thanks,
David Brauer
List manager 


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[Mpls] Ivy Tower

[List Manager]

It's cute as a button, but stubbornly undevelopable. Lisa Goodman calls
it a "pit" and the Strib's Linda Mack says its interior has melted.
However, Goodman also says restoring the still-intact concrete tower is
the perfect project for tax-increment financing. The council may well
approve the deal next Friday.

Check out Linda Mack's Saturday story at:
http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/883563.html

Also, we at Skyway did a piece on the deal this week, which also
mentioned a rival development plan that does not require city money -
and may not be real:

http://www.skywaynews.net/skywaynews/myarticles.asp?P=511822&S=456&PubID
=7850&EC=0

(The link will certainly break, so go to http://www.skywaynews.net and
click on Comings & Goings.)

David Brauer
List manager


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[Mpls] One Man's Suggestion on Where to Start with $1.9B Shortfall

[Ron Lischeid]

I know that David is probably ready to hit the delete key because it
looks like I am going to talk about state issues- but this message is
directly focused at Minneapolis- please bear with me on this post-

This week it was announced that the state is facing a nearly $2B
shortfall as a result of the current recession and the aftermath of
9/11.  Suburban school districts are poised to move to 4 day school
weeks.  I would like to suggest a starting point for reducing state
spending that should,IMHO, be a no-brainer- a pledge by our elected
House and Senate representatives that they will not submit any per diem
requests for 2002.

For those of you not familiar with per diems, currently the Senate
allows members to submit $66.00 per day and the House allows members to
submit at a rate of $56.00 per day.  For those of you that don't know
me, I am a blue-collar, take-your-lunch-to-work-in-a-paperbag, working
stiff and so I think of per diems as "gas money / parking money / lunch
money".  I don't know about your particular circumstances with your
employer, but I know that my employer is not going to pay me an
additional $56-66 per day just to get to work and home and to cover
something to eat when my stomach growls.  It will probably not surprise
many of you to know that there were even some Senators and
Representatives that had the gonads to submit per diem expenses during
the special session.  In my up-bringing, that is known as rubbing salt
into an open wound.

Let me list the per diems that have been submitted by Minneapolis
Senators and Representatives from 01/01/2001 thorugh 09/30/2001.  The
amount includes some possible per diem expenses from late 2000 and there
may be additional per diem expenses submitted between 10/01/2001 and the
end of the year.

District 58A- Joe Mullery- $8176.00
District 58B- Gregory Gray- $8736.00
Senate 58- Linda Higgins- $9734.00
District 59A- Len Biernat- $8680.00
District 59B- Phyllis Kahn- $8288.00
Senate 59- Lawrence Pogemiller- $12,578.00
District 60A- Margaret Anderson-Kelliher- $7784.00
District 60B- Scott Dibble- $8064.00
Senate 60- Myron Orfield- $9174.00
District 61A- Karen Clark- $8960.00
District 61B- Neva Walker- $7976.00
Senate 61- Linda Berglin- $9174.00
District 62A- Jim Davnie- $6160.00
District 62B- Wes Skoglund- $8792.00
Senate 62- Julie Sabo- $10,428.00
District 63A- Jean Wagenius- $8400.00
District 63B- Mark Gleason- $8344.00
Senate 63- Jane Ranum- $10,658.00
Total Minneapolis Per Diem 01/01/2001-09/30/2001- $160,106.00

I am not against the idea of per diem because there are some members of
the legislature that incur actual out-of-pocket expenses representing
their constituents.  They drive great distances in all kinds of weather,
have to purchase all meals while in St. Paul and have to pay for a place
to sleep.  But I hardly think that there is a justification for per diem
expenses for atleast half of the legislature- those that drive similar
miles as you and I to get to work and that get to eat at home and sleep
in their own bed every night.  I even think that metro legislators have
justification requesting per diems if they are going to a hearing in
Duluth, Pipestone or some place like that.

I live between 10-11 miles from work and it takes me between 15-20
minutes to get to work.  I used Microsoft Expedia Streets and Trips 2000
to calculate how many miles Minneapolis Senators and Representatives
drive to work and how long it might take them to make that trip (I
realize times may vary due to traffic, time of day and weather):

Joe Mullery- 16.0 miles- 27 minutes
Gregory Gray- 12.1 miles- 22 minutes
Linda Berglin- 12.1 miles- 22 minutes
Len Biernat- 11.3 miles- 23 minutes (say, couldn't he carpool with
Christine Jax?)
Phyllis Kahn- 10.4 miles- 22 minutes
Lawrence Pogemiller- 10.2 miles- 22 minutes
Margaret Anderson-Kelliher- 12.4 miles- 23 minutes
Scott Dibble- 11.8 miles- 23 minutes
Myron Orfield- 14.0 miles- 28 minutes
Karen Clark- 8.8 miles- 16 minutes
Neva Walker- 12.9 miles- 24 minutes
Linda Berglin- 12.7 miles- 24 minutes
Jim Davnie- 7.9 miles- 16 minutes
Wes Skoglund- 12.1 miles- 23 minutes
Julie Sabo- 8.2 miles- 18 minutes
Jean Wagenius- 13.2 miles- 25 minutes
Mark Gleason- 15.8 miles- 26 minutes
Jane Ranum- 13.5 miles- 26 miles

I will leave it up to the list members to decide for themselves if any
of these public employees is enduring any adverse hardship getting to
work.

So my suggestion is for the Minneapolis DLF delegation to voluntarily
step up to the plate and set the standard for the other metro
legislators by pledging not to submit any per diem expenses during the
2002 session.  Come on- How about it?

If you agree with me that this is a good place to start in cutting state
spending, please feel free to do your part.  Since this list is
monitored and participated in by many loyal DFLers, please feel free to
give your own elected public official a phone call and ask them to cut
out the per diems until the economy is back in order (or po

Re: [Mpls] School Propaganda Counts.

[Gypsycurse7]

In a message dated 12/7/2001 4:08:25 PM Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>  
>  Does naming a cluster of facts "the culture of poverty,"
>  automatically constitute using it as a "theory" to maintain
>  the status quo? I cited 'culture of poverty' to identify one
>  way in which kids fail to achieve.

My pocket dictionary defines the term 'theory' as 1) a set of propositions 
describing the operation and causes of natural phenomena, 2) a proposed but 
unverified explanation...[The New American Webster Handy College Dictionary] 

An explanation for the link between poverty and education-related outcomes, 
sometimes referred to as the 'culture of poverty' theory, was proposed by 
James Coleman and others in a 1966 study entitled "Equality of Educational 
Opportunity."  According to Coleman et. al:

"Schools bring little influence to bear on a child's achievement that is 
independent of his background and general social context; and that this very 
lack of an independent effect means that the inequalities imposed on children 
by their home, neighborhood, and peer environment are carried along to become 
the inequalities with which they confront adult life at the end of school 
[The Manufactured Crisis, 1995, Berliner and Biddle, page 71]"

The conclusions of the 1966 Coleman were cited by school districts as 
evidence that desegregating racially segregated school systems would not 
benefit black children. 

What happened after most of the racially segregated school systems were 
desegregated?  According to the 1990 Sandia Report, the test score gap 
between whites and blacks declined during the 1970s and 1980s.  Even as the 
income gap between blacks and whites was increasing during the early 1980s, 
the test score gap was decreasing (Berliner and Biddle, 1995, The 
Manufactured Crisis, pages 26). 

The Sandia Report was suppressed by the first Bush administration, then 
released by the Clinton administration.  It was a very authoritative study 
commissioned by the Bush administration that also contradicted an earlier 
report, "A Nation At Risk," which claimed that the quest to reduce 
disparities in educational outcomes had gone too far and was doing harm to 
the nation's high performing students.  This went along with the "rising tide 
of mediocrity" rhetoric that was used by the Reagan and Bush administrations 
to push a neoconservative education reform agenda, which includes a return to 
racially segregated 'neighborhood schools,' and the promotion of the 
ability-grouping model. 

It is also noteworthy that six years after the original Coleman Report was 
issued, Coleman published reanalyses of its data using "regression" 
procedures. (A "regression" procedure is a one-step analysis that estimates 
the net effect of each variable while controlling for the effects of the 
other variables.)  Based on the reanalyses, Coleman concluded that the 
original report gave an inflated estimate of the influence of home background 
characteristics due to unexamined effects of school characteristics.  
Coleman's later work has been swept under the rug [ibid Berliner and Biddle, 
p 73].   

>  The schools say, I think, that they don't have the skills and resources to 
make an impact on that sub-cultural gordian knot, break it open and let the 
kids inside out. Several people on this list have said, in effect, that the 
schools have to do it whether they have the resources or not. [snip]

I believe that the schools do have a big impact on the subcultures you speak 
of, a largely negative impact.  The "learning is a white thing" is a 
rationalization that some black kids use to deal with the cards they have 
been dealt.  Far more problematic is the corporate culture of the Minneapolis 
Public Schools.  It is reasonable to expect tremendous institutional 
resistance to changes in policies and practices that conflict with deeply 
ingrained beliefs about the limited academic abilities of most low-income
students that are held by the adults who are running the schools.

-Doug Mann, Kingfield

Doug Mann for School Board

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Re: [Mpls] Is Reading Taught? AAA, LM's SWJ column

[j harmon]

Constructive - I'll give it a shot, although I must admit my guts are all in 
knots in hopes of a continuing sodomy discussion...
I'll start out by saying that I think every parent has a responsibility to 
ensure that his/her child makes use of the very education system you speak 
of - which seems to involve, to some's dismay, more than telling them the 
bus is coming. As far as the provision of food -  considering schools are 
serving breakfast and lunch, it seems quite a few parents have neglected to 
do that as well. In addition, financial aid for post-secondary education is 
now offered to parents to supplement THEIR incomes based on THEIR ability to 
pay, which tells me that should a parent choose to become involved, he might 
just have to pony up MORE dough someday to send his kid to a post-secondary 
institution if he wants him to get a decent job.
I think most people would agree that a parent, whether green, black, white 
or purple, who doesn't at the very least make an honest attempt to prepare 
their child for school IS neglectful. And your point about medical care - if 
we left that up to parents, most of us would have bled to death years ago. 
Last I heard it's up to employers to provide medical care; and counties and 
states respectively. I may be ranting, (and likely will again) but gall 
darnit already, potential parents have a responsibility to insure that 
they're prepared with relation to having a roof over their head and a 
stable, wholesome environment in which to raise a child before ever making 
the conscious decision to conceive one! Folks who believe having children is 
not a conscious decision will never be convinced otherwise, and are frankly, 
quite free to blame the schools, society, the communist realm or Haley's 
freaking comet for their child's inability to perform in school, or in 
society for that matter. The flipside of course is the harsh realization 
that we can't go backwards and 'unbear' children that don't have a chance in 
heck, because they're already here and in poverty, etc.
It's incredibly frustrating that more people call family meetings to partake 
in lengthy discussions as to whether or not they're going to get a dog and 
who's gonna walk him and who's gonna feed him, more than others do about the 
responsibilities and consequences of bringing up baby.
JHarmon
Cleveland



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[Mpls] Reparations, Knee Jerk Liberalism, RT/Ostrow Stadium Boondoggles ostrowcizing rank and file Mpls voters

[Eva Young]

The last couple issues of Insight News covered the issue of reparations.
The issue two weeks ago talked about how the reparations committee was
working on convincing the African American community of the need for
reparations.  Last week's issue covered the Lucille's Kitchen forum with
special guests Gary Schiff, Robert Lilligren, Natalie Johnson Lee and Dean
Zimmerman.

>From the article:  

[8th ward council member Robert] Lilligren also said that though he does
support reparations, it would be hard to make it the first order of
business in city hall come January.  'I do support reparations and would
like the community's support on the issue.  I'm asking the community to
continue to educate me on the issue so that I can educate others in city
council,' he said.  

.
[9th ward council member Gary] Schiff said he does support reparations.  "I
think it's long over do.  I see no reason why the City of Minneapolis can't
do what Chicago did and urge congress to hold hearings so we can finally
address this long overdo topic in our nation's history," he said.

Dean Zimmerman (6th ward) went on record in favor of reparations during the
campaign.  

==
I guess I'd like to hear from CM Schiff, Zimmerman and Lilligren on this
list is if they support reparations, why they do -- and how they think
reparations will make life in Minneapolis better.  

The folks I talked to on Robert's campaign committee who worked hard to
elect Robert Lilligren are not convinced of the need to support
reparations.  (I was one of those people).  We worked on Robert's campaign
because we wanted a full time city council member to represent our ward
(recall our ward HAD been represented by the admitted extortionist, Brian
Herron).  Robert himself told me on the phone that he had never been asked
the question during the campaign.  The 8th ward is very racially diverse --
and that means that the African Americans he talked to while doorknocking
didn't seem to have reparations on their minds -- so I find it odd that
Robert is coming out in support of this as if this is the thing to do to
support African Americans -- assuming the quote from the Lucille's Kitchen
forum is correct, and Jenny Hauser's account of Robert Lilligren's support
of reparations is correct.  

Eric Fyksen writes in response to RT Rybak's post on Minneapolis issues:  

RT:
> I think that's what people elected us for. They DID
> NOT elect us to get into
> personality squabbles that detour us from bringing
> about real change.
Eric:
People also elected you because you talked a good line
about limiting subsidies for things like STADIUMS. 
You're not even in office yet, and you've already
waffled on that issue, one of the couple major issues
in the election.  Congratulations, I was fooled, I
didn't expect much from this administration, but I
didn't think we'd see more subsidies that we can't
afford.  On a happier note, thank the Lord for the 10
million referendum requirement that was put in place
to protect the citizens from the last administration! 
It will destroy the credibility of this new
administration when they are resoundingly defeated by
the voters; unfortunate, but part of come-uppance when
you can't keep your story straight.
==
Fyksen makes some good points regarding RT Rybak here.  Voters did not
elect the new city council people -- and the new mayor to subsidize stadia
for the Twins and the Vikings.  It now seems like the new leadership --
Rybak and Ostrow want to ostrowcize the public on this issue.  Do the seven
people who signed Ostrow's pledge support public funding for stadiums?  My
understanding is Gary Schiff and Paul Ostrow would be public funding
supporters.  Colvin Roy also?  Who else?  

Also, if Rybak is trying to deflect criticism as a "personality squabble"
-- well that's the same thing that Mayor SSB's supporters were saying about
criticism on this list of SSB.  

RT writes regarding my earlier criticism of him on this list:  

"What bothers me is RT seems to be spending much more of his time
and energy on the Twins stadium that he has on the issues he ran on --
namely affordable housing."

As far as the coverage of my actions, this is true.  But it's not the case.
This afternoon I'm meeting with David Fey and our affordable housing task
force, which has been working very hard over the past few weeks to lay out
our proposed agenda. It's very strong work so far and I expect it to get
better. We are going to refine it today, air it before council members and
legislators early next week and then bring it forward probably late next
week.  I am also going to be talking about this when I meet with Gov.
Ventura in about an hour.

EY:  Sounds like Mayor Elect RT is taking a cue from the Governor's book --
blame that evil media for the lack of coverage of what RT is REALLY working
on.  I'd like to read RT's response to the posts by Keith Reitmann and
Craig Miller -- both of whom are l

Re: [Mpls] Council

[Eric Fyksen]

--- "R.T.Rybak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I think that's what people elected us for. They DID
> NOT elect us to get into
> personality squabbles that detour us from bringing
> about real change.


Eric writes:

People also elected you because you talked a good line
about limiting subsidies for things like STADIUMS. 
You're not even in office yet, and you've already
waffled on that issue, one of the couple major issues
in the election.  Congratulations, I was fooled, I
didn't expect much from this administration, but I
didn't think we'd see more subsidies that we can't
afford.  On a happier note, thank the Lord for the 10
million referendum requirement that was put in place
to protect the citizens from the last administration! 
It will destroy the credibility of this new
administration when they are resoundingly defeated by
the voters; unfortunate, but part of come-uppance when
you can't keep your story straight.

Eric Fyksen 

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[Mpls] Phosphorus Lawn Fertilizer Legislation

[McGreevy, James A., III]

Greetings:  I'd like to let you all know about an effort at the state
legislature to restrict the sale and use of phosphorus lawn fertilizer.  I
understand there was some discussion of this issue on the list when the
Mpls. City Council took action on it.  The group I work with, the Minnesota
Water Quality Partnership, is an organization of 50+ municipalities and
watershed districts who want a state law to override the patchwork of local
ordinances on this issue.  Linda Higgins and Margaret Kelliher have taken
the lead on this legislation and are doing a great job.  We have a ton of
support from many groups.  We are always looking for more support, though.
If any of you or groups you belong to wish to get involved, we can be
reached at (952) 896-3224.  Thanks.  Jim McGreevy 


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[Mpls] Cool Formats

[dll6701]

What's really cool is that the next Mayor is continuing to read this list, respond 
from time to time, and, as he becomes an inevitable target . . . keep his cool.  

David Lillehaug
Downtown  
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[Mpls] Re: Mpls digest, Vol 1 #577 - 16 msgs

[clenee24]

I would like to unscribe to this newsletter
Thank you
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Re: [Mpls] School Propaganda Counts.

[wizardmarks]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> The culture of poverty theory helps the school board justify keeping things
> the way they are, in and outside of a courtroom setting. 
 
Does naming a cluster of facts "the culture of poverty,"
automatically constitute using it as a "theory" to maintain
the status quo? I cited 'culture of poverty' to identify one
way in which kids fail to achieve.
The schools say, I think, that they don't have the skills
and resources to make an impact on that sub-cultural gordian
knot, break it open and let the kids inside out.
Several people on this list have said, in effect, that the
schools have to do it whether they have the resources or
not.
For my own opinion, worth just what you paid for it, this is
an impass. And my solution would be a flock of nuns,
particularly missionary-type nuns, Benedictans or
Franciscans, who have a lot of experience working against
that norm and have made an impact on it to some degree in
various parts of the globe, including Cincinnati and
Northern Kentucky. Let them teach by example in public
schools.
Other than that, it will take a concerted effort by the
citizenry--with or without children--to push the weight of
bureaucracies involved to make that change. Them's the
fac's, jack, regardless of who is responsible. How do we
wrestle a bear into submission with a popsicle stick?
I'm open to suggestions for how to proceed.
WizardMarks, Central

acceptance of blame for an attitude?
The school system is saying, if what you say is accurate, 

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Re: [Mpls] Whittier fund shifting

[wizardmarks]

I can tell you one of the ways that happens.
Phase I NRP was predicted on a five-year timeline.
Neighborhoods with lots of plans and big needs could not
anticipte some of the red tape involved in their most
intricate solutions to their problems. Each problem which
required a bureaucracy to act in a different way took more
time than predicted, hence their plans did not get finished
in the predicated 5 years. Extra years' work, extra admin.
costs.
WizardMarks

timothy connolly wrote:
> 
> I saw an article in the current SW Journal.
> 
> I apologize for not being able to include one of those
> groovy blue lined addresses that all you have to do is
> click on and VOILA, you're somewhere else.
> 
> The article was about Whittier Alliance wishing to
> reallocate $173K from their NRP Phase 1 money,
> earmarked for various housing programs, to pay for
> staff, ongoing 2002 operating expenses, and NRP Phase
> 2 Planning.
> 
> I do not want to suggest anything untoward about this
> action.
> 
> I know little of the workings of neighborhood
> organizations vis a vis NRP, etc. How they are
> separated and all.
> 
> The first paragraph of the article reads "The Whittier
> Alliance will hold a neighborhood meeting to ask for
> community support to reallocate $173K in its
> Neighborhood Revitalization Program budget."
> 
> It doesn't say if that support means a vote
> 
> It also does not mention whether or not the Whittier
> Alliance has to run this by NRP and since the City
> Council in effect approves each NRP plan, it might not
> have to go through the Council.
> 
> As I said I do not mean to cast aspersions so much as
> look at procedure for such a transaction.
> 
> And the idea that the money will come from "various
> housing programs in NRP Phase 1" as the article states
> does give one pause to be concerned.
> 
> I thought that basically everyone in the city was
> scratching for bucks, bringing in their penny jars so
> that we could build more housing!
> 
> I also don't understand staffing with some
> neighborhood groups. Why do some have numerous staff
> members while others have one or two.
> 
> In some cases I can understand.
> 
> For instance; in the case of Longfellow Community
> Council, four neighborhoods have joined forces in a
> natural fit.
> 
> But why would Hawthorne have 7 staff as I count and
> Near North have only two and Jordan have only one or
> two?
> 
> Of course combinations have their drawbacks as we are
> seeing with the 40th Street Greenway and this past
> summer with the expansion of Minnehaha Academy and the
> removal of 18 or 22 old oak trees.
> 
> The people closest to the academy felt their votes
> might have weighed more than those on the other side
> of the community.
> 
> It would take someone with Solomonic powers to mediate
> these disputes but I think it is necessary.
> 
> I always saw that as one of the functions of the Mayor
> in our city.
> 
> I think it is sorely lacking in our city.
> 
> That is one reason I opposed R.T. for Mayor.
> 
> His previous "neighborhood experience" it seemed to me
> to be solidifying a group of like minded people to
> make their voices heard, as in the case of ROAR.
> 
> Well I see I've strayed from the path of my main
> inquiry and lapsed into streetfighting mode
> 
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[Mpls] The last email sent to you from me has a VIRUS

[Barbara L. Nelson]

I am infected with a virus that automatically mailed itself to you.
Don't open the attachment in the previous email!  SORRY.  I am working
to fix it.
Barbara
--
Barbara Nelson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues,
but the parent of all the others.
— Cicero


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Re: [Mpls] Mickelson, School Choice . . . $$ Correction

[Gregory Luce]

Slight correction to my dollar figures-- a family of one mom, two kids, 
receives $532.00 month in MFIP benefits, plus an additional $269.00 for 
food.  Imagine paying rent on that.  The $437 figure is for a single 
parent/caregiver and one child.  Ooops, sorry.

> GDL:
> 
> Bravo to Lynnell on this.  While we hear a lot about choice and  
> opportunity, I'm not sure folks truly understand the crushing,  
> overwhelming effect of poverty on a caregiver and his or her children. 
>   I'm not sure people understand how a family gets by on $437.00 month 
> in  benefits for two children, plus food stamps.  I'm not sure people  
> understand how a mother of four supports her kids on an $8.00/hr job,  
> and then be expected to pay rent, buy clothes, and have the time to  
> figure out and choose a particularly great or even adequate school.   
> Choice of schools?  Sure, it exists, and the opportunities are set up 
> to  be there (and the schools should be credited for offering a route 
> for  equity), but seeing the crushing effect of poverty on families I 
> deal  with everyday is distressing, particularly when they 
> cannot--dare I say  cannot-- get on that route that has been offered 
> them.  I'm beyond  depressed (and I'm sure many teachers and others 
> are as well) of seeing  children punished by poverty and its 
> incredibly complex destructive  force on their parents/caregivers.  
> Enough already.   Let's deal with  that elephant that Lynnell 
> recognizes and acknowledges, and that Wizard  Marks so forcefully raises.
> 
> Gregory Luce
> Phillips


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Re: [Mpls] McKnight Grant, Mickelson, School Choice

[Gregory Luce]

With all the discussion of education issues, here's a Strib story today 
about a $3 million McKnight grant to the MPS for reform of its high schools:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1592/880951.html

also, Lynell Mickelsen wrote:

I still think the involvement of families in their  children's education 
is absolutely crucial. To pretend otherwise is  to ignore the elephant 
in the living room. But there's a whole bunch  of elephants in a whole 
bunch of living rooms all over this town. In  my more affluent, white 
section of the city, one of our elephants is  the appalling silence of 
white people in the face of this  long-running and unjust racial 
profiling. Our general indifference to  affordable housing issues. And 
more.
=
GDL:

Bravo to Lynnell on this.  While we hear a lot about choice and 
opportunity, I'm not sure folks truly understand the crushing, 
overwhelming effect of poverty on a caregiver and his or her children.  
I'm not sure people understand how a family gets by on $437.00 month in 
benefits for two children, plus food stamps.  I'm not sure people 
understand how a mother of four supports her kids on an $8.00/hr job, 
and then be expected to pay rent, buy clothes, and have the time to 
figure out and choose a particularly great or even adequate school.  
Choice of schools?  Sure, it exists, and the opportunities are set up to 
be there (and the schools should be credited for offering a route for 
equity), but seeing the crushing effect of poverty on families I deal 
with everyday is distressing, particularly when they cannot--dare I say 
cannot-- get on that route that has been offered them.  I'm beyond 
depressed (and I'm sure many teachers and others are as well) of seeing 
children punished by poverty and its incredibly complex destructive 
force on their parents/caregivers.  Enough already.   Let's deal with 
that elephant that Lynnell recognizes and acknowledges, and that Wizard 
Marks so forcefully raises.

Gregory Luce
Phillips


David Brauer wrote:

> And thanks to deseg decisions, minority kids are quite able to get in
> the best open schools in Minneapolis - the ones the middle-class covets.
> The spots are there. At the very least, parents of poor non-white kids
> in Minneapolis have substantial choice...if they choose to exercise it.
> 
> I was at the School Choice Fair last month  - on a Saturday, for six
> hours (so you could go morning or afternoon), downtown on all the bus
> routes, free parking, even child care. The opportunity was there to find
> the best place for your kid - and there are plenty of best places.
> 
> If you're going to proclaim shared responsibility, give the district
> some credit for offering routes to equity.


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[Mpls] Housing, my contribution to the 24 hour news on affordable housing.

[Craig Miller]

I have a suggestion for RT and the new council.  City inspections at the
behest of the city attorneys office are pressing the landlords to take over
another responsibility of the city's.  Seems some court ruled that the city
can't take landlords notice as sufficient notice to perform a city mandated
city inspection. This would not be a complaint driven inspection but a
annual license inspection.  The city is fearing a lawsuit.

Now the city wants us to go door to door and secure the signatures for
approval by the tenants.  Here's the problems.

1. It leaves the tenant with the impression that they can turn down any
inspection.  This is bad.  Landlord has the right to inspect as long as
reasonable notice is given.  This has stood con law, case law, statute law
for over 1000 years.

2. This extra expense will have to be paid in more rent increases.

3. This is the city's responsibility.

4. Good landlords will comply.  Bad landlords will only seek signatures from
the units that are ready to be inspected.  Units that are not ready to go
will have to be inspected after an administrative warrant is obtained.  How
much time and money will be spent on this procedure before the city gives up
and only inspects the units that have consented?

5. What about the tenant who wants to say "no" but feels intimidated just by
the landlord's presence?

RT AND DAVID FEY, IF YOUR READING,  KILL THIS EXTRA REGULATION RIGHT NOW.
TELL THE CITY ATTY'S OFFICE TO DO WHAT ST. PAUL DOES.

Craig Miller
Former Fultonite
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - But it's not the case.
> This afternoon I'm meeting with David Fey and our affordable housing task
> force,  Also wish there
> was 24-7 news coverage and interest in affordable housing, as there is in
> baseball.  Sorry for making excuses but I quite openly acknowledge that
the
> news about

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[Mpls] BIG BIG OOPS

[timothy connolly]

I forgot to sign my recent post.

More importantly I clicked the wrong box.

I was in the process of editing and had intended to
delete the final few sentences relative to our soon to
be new Mayor.

Seriously!

I want nothing more than for R.T. to have great
success for that will bode well for Minneapolis.

These are challenging times. 

I also hope my meanderings did not detract from my
main point about neighborhoods and NRP and oversight,
etc.

Tim Connolly
Ward 7

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[Mpls] Whittier fund shifting

[timothy connolly]

I saw an article in the current SW Journal.

I apologize for not being able to include one of those
groovy blue lined addresses that all you have to do is
click on and VOILA, you're somewhere else.

The article was about Whittier Alliance wishing to
reallocate $173K from their NRP Phase 1 money,
earmarked for various housing programs, to pay for
staff, ongoing 2002 operating expenses, and NRP Phase
2 Planning.

I do not want to suggest anything untoward about this
action.

I know little of the workings of neighborhood
organizations vis a vis NRP, etc. How they are
separated and all.

The first paragraph of the article reads "The Whittier
Alliance will hold a neighborhood meeting to ask for
community support to reallocate $173K in its
Neighborhood Revitalization Program budget."

It doesn't say if that support means a vote

It also does not mention whether or not the Whittier
Alliance has to run this by NRP and since the City
Council in effect approves each NRP plan, it might not
have to go through the Council.

As I said I do not mean to cast aspersions so much as
look at procedure for such a transaction.

And the idea that the money will come from "various
housing programs in NRP Phase 1" as the article states
does give one pause to be concerned.

I thought that basically everyone in the city was
scratching for bucks, bringing in their penny jars so
that we could build more housing!

I also don't understand staffing with some
neighborhood groups. Why do some have numerous staff
members while others have one or two.

In some cases I can understand.

For instance; in the case of Longfellow Community
Council, four neighborhoods have joined forces in a
natural fit. 

But why would Hawthorne have 7 staff as I count and
Near North have only two and Jordan have only one or
two?

Of course combinations have their drawbacks as we are
seeing with the 40th Street Greenway and this past
summer with the expansion of Minnehaha Academy and the
removal of 18 or 22 old oak trees.

The people closest to the academy felt their votes
might have weighed more than those on the other side
of the community.

It would take someone with Solomonic powers to mediate
these disputes but I think it is necessary.

I always saw that as one of the functions of the Mayor
in our city.

I think it is sorely lacking in our city.

That is one reason I opposed R.T. for Mayor.

His previous "neighborhood experience" it seemed to me
to be solidifying a group of like minded people to
make their voices heard, as in the case of ROAR.

Well I see I've strayed from the path of my main
inquiry and lapsed into streetfighting mode

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Re: [Mpls] Lowry Avenue: Another Greenway of Concern?

[loki anderson]

I was thinking about what impact this would have on
Marshall Terrace in terms of property acquisition and
housing loss should they choose to expand north of the
avenue. In terms of housing, we don't have any
apartment buildings between University and the river,
but we do have several homes between University and
2nd and then between California and Marshall. Not a
huge loss but still considerable.

In terms of businesses, the biggest loss would
probably be Little Jack's restaurant which has been on
the corner of Lowry and 2nd forever. We'd also lose
two neighborhood bars, a car wash and a couple smaller
businesses.

Thanks for the info. I was so stunned to actually see
a post about northeast that I almost went right by it.

   Loki Anderson
   Marshall Terrace
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


=
"Let me tell you how it will be
 There's one for you, nineteen for me
 'Cause I'm the Taxman..."
   -George Harrison

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[Mpls] Quoting Out of Context

[Gypsycurse7]

In a message dated 12/6/2001 3:42:20 PM Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
>  I could go on, but that's not really my point. My point is let's deal with 
> the issues.  I'm not certain if you're actually reading your notes Doug, 
but 
> you keep taking quotes out of context and much of the statements are 
> inflammatory.  
>  
>  For example, in your December 5th reply you said:
>  
>  "By implication, if your kid doesn't turn out fine, it's probably because 
> the parents are falling down on the job."
>  
>  standing alone like that, one would assume that you were saying the same 
> thing that you're accusing Lynnell of.
>  
>  More quotes:
>  
>  "Other kids are doing bad because of their lazy, shiftless parents."
>  "...the "academic achievement gap" between white and black students, for 
> example, can be completely eliminated without also eliminating poverty and 
> racism."
>  
>  These are all things that you've said, and when taken out of context as 
you 
> seem to be doing with Lynnell and now my comments, they can portray you in 
a 
> different light than someone who actually cares about the school system and 
> is a lifetime member of the NAACP. [snip]

Is it wrong to express an opinion that Jonathan Palmer disagrees with?  
That's what I think is behind all the harping about "quoting out of context." 
 

There is a difference between quoting out of context and citing an entire 
passage, two full paragraphs, from someone's writing.  One can snip out a 
sentence or a fragment of a sentence from another person's writing and 
misrepresent that as their view about some matter. JP gives some examples of 
how this could be done with things that I have written.  However, JP did not 
give as an example of "quoting out of context" a full paragraph or entire 
passage from something I wrote.  If he quoted entire passages rather than 
extracting from them isolated sentences or sentence fragments, he would not 
be quoting out of context. 

I agree that "quoting out of context" as JP describes is improper.  It is 
certainly not good ettiquette. It's a tactic that clouds the issues and 
poisons the atmosphere.  

Jonathan Palmer says that I keep taking quotes out of context.  Where did I 
misrepresent LM's views by quoting out of context as JP describes above?  
It's an unsubstantiated allegation.  If one is going to accuse me of quoting 
out context, one needs to offer evidence. Repeating an allegation over and 
over again doesn't make it true.

It is also noteworthy that JP directs a "quoting out of context" allegation 
is at me but pays no attention to the quoting out of context that is being 
done by others on the education threads.  

In another message on this thread, sent on 12/5/2001 4:51:24 PM Central 
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

>Specifically, though, when you state things like "in other words" or "the 
implication is", your stating your own interpretation however incorrect or 
correct it might be.  Which is fine, but when you draw conclusions or state 
that your interpretation is what things mean definitively it becomes wrong. 
[snip]

I quoted two passages from Lynnell Mickelsen's SW Journal column, and 
commented on those passages.  I did not summarize or paraphrase LMs views, 
then attack what I say her views are.  I did not present my interpretation of 
LM's views as LM's views. 
I did not put words in LM's mouth.

My crime is that my views on the issues that are being discussed in this 
forum do not conform closely enough to those of Jonathan Palmer.  
  
-Doug Mann, Kingfield

Doug Mann for School Board

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Re: [Mpls] Housing/ RT, can WE come to the table?

[PennBroKeith]

In a message dated 12/7/01 11:21:09 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

<< 
 As far as the coverage of my actions, this is true.  But it's not the case.
 This afternoon I'm meeting with David Fey and our affordable housing task
 force, which has been working very hard over the past few weeks to lay out
 our proposed agenda. It's very strong work so far and I expect it to get
 better. We are going to refine it today, air it before council members and
 legislators early next week and then bring it forward probably late next
 week.  I am also going to be talking about this when I meet with Gov.
 Ventura in about an hour.
  >>
Dear RT, Welcome to City Hall. Since the policies and prizes are being 
passed before Jan. 2, I wish to ask you a question about affordable housing 
initiatives you are formulating. Which people from the private sector, small 
businessmen called landlord, have you selected and appointed to this 
affordable housing roundtable so far? I have a fear that all nonprofit and no 
bottom line experience means spending more money with less thought. Our tax 
money is short, let the idea list grow long. Thank you.
   Keith Reitman, Don't Ostrowcize us, Near North
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[Mpls] Re: Mpls digest, Vol 1 #576 - 17 msgs

[Emilie Quast]

At 10:51 AM 12/7/01 -0600, you wrote:
> I want to play the "responsibility" game.  And, here's how
>you play: everyone accepts that they are part of the problem and works
>as hard as possible to achieve a solution.  When someone says, "Well,
>we offered summer tutorials and nobody came," they are playing the blame
>game. 

OK: I would like to see how you are going to get parents involved in
sending their kids.   Leave aside what the schools did NOT do.  What WOULD
you do to get parents to understand their kids need this opportunity.

> I think that the schools need to admit that their management
>policies are ineffective and work on developing new ones. 

Like what?  Lead the way!  

I need to see a plan here.  The goal is to get some parents more involved
with their kids'education, are we agreed? 

What steps would you take to achieve this goal

1.
2.
3.

And what kind of a calendar would you put this on?  Would that be starting
before preschool--at preschool--Kindergarten?  when and how

I'd love to see a real game plan for this goal.

> There will always
>be parents who are not willing or able to take responsibility for their
>children; that's not an excuse for the schools failing to teaching them to
read.

No, but it sure doesn't help the situation any.


>On the other side of the coin I have emphasized parent involvement programs
>because it is one way of getting parents to take responsibility. You need to
>work on all aspects of the problem to achieve a solution.

But how do you get the parents to attend this?

Emilie Quast
SE Como

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[Mpls] Housing

[R.T.Rybak]

I promise not to spam people with more emailsand I'm about to go back
into a cave for a few days... but wanted to also pick up on this point from
Eva:


"What bothers me is RT seems to be spending much more of his time
and energy on the Twins stadium that he has on the issues he ran on --
namely affordable housing."

As far as the coverage of my actions, this is true.  But it's not the case.
This afternoon I'm meeting with David Fey and our affordable housing task
force, which has been working very hard over the past few weeks to lay out
our proposed agenda. It's very strong work so far and I expect it to get
better. We are going to refine it today, air it before council members and
legislators early next week and then bring it forward probably late next
week.  I am also going to be talking about this when I meet with Gov.
Ventura in about an hour.

This is coupled with our plans for MCDA, NRP and Planning
reorganizationwhen are also being defined.

This work, plus organizing my office, is where I'm spending my time.

The stadium issue was put on my plate, and not the other way around.
I'm not sure I've done the best job with that, or at least with
communicating what I'm doing.

That's harder in a transition period when we are trying to do this work
without a skeleton staff or office...(remind me to think about transition
funds for the person who beats me in the next election) Also wish there
was 24-7 news coverage and interest in affordable housing, as there is in
baseball.  Sorry for making excuses but I quite openly acknowledge that the
news about stadiums,etc. has overwhelmed the work on housing...I hope to
change that when we come forward with our report next week.

Eva's right: I should be spending my time on affordable housing. I am and I
hope that will become more clear soon.


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RE: [Mpls] Comrade Ostrow!

[Eva Young]

Roberta Englund writes:

AMEN Mr. Parra!  In one fell swoop Mr.Ostrow and company has vetoed citizen
opinion, now and in the future.  So what if the people voted, just sign on
the dotted line and we will all be back to business as usual just absent a
few players, but with others to take their place!   What's next, perhaps a
sign on the line deal for a new stadium?  This smacks of an RT orchestrated
"I can do business better then you so get out of the way if you don't
agree" strategy.  If this stupidity prevails, at least it is nice to know
early on that a manipulative and self effacing mayor is at the helm of an
easily controlled (abet elected) city council.  Roberta Englund, Folwell
Neighborhood  
=
Some of this was pretty evident during the campaign -- RT got the public
support of most of the council members who signed his pledge before the
election.  The plan was going to be that it would be a contest between
Ostrow and Cherryhomes.  When Cherryhomes lost, then the idea of so called
"consensus" came up.  
   
We get all types of nonsense from politicians regarding a publically funded
stadium.  What bothers me is RT seems to be spending much more of his time
and energy on the Twins stadium that he has on the issues he ran on --
namely affordable housing.  CM Johnson threw a wrench in this by running
herself -- and forcing Ostrow to compete for the job.  

To his credit CM Lilligren showed his independence and didn't sign Comrade
Ostrow's pledge.  

Eduardo Parra writes:  

 BLECH, PHEW, ACK to Ostrow!
  
 Kudos to Barb Johnson for having the balls to stand up to Ostrow's
intimidating techniques to gain the Council Presidency.  C'mon Paul, what
planet are you on?  Didn't you pay attention to the results of the city
election?  Seems most folks sent a clear message to downtown that the
Cherryhomes/Belton/Campbell-esque way of doing business would not be
tolerated.  Barb's idea of handshakes seems the most gallant way of
deciding the presidency.  
==
I agree -- Kudos to Barb Johnson for forcing a competition on the Council
Presidency.  So far it seems that the sentiment on this list is more for
Johnson than Ostrow.  
  
Eduardo continues:  

 Who appointed you our fearless Council President - God?  RT?  As a
supporter of RT and his bid to win the Mayoral election, I was under the
assumption that good and fair government would rule the day.  WRONG!
Ostrow, we deserve a better explanation than "well, we've got lotsa work to
do" - DUH!  
  
 Either I'm on Planet X, or I thought Minneapolis was moving into a new era
- but then again
  
 Watching suspiciously!!!

=
Minneapolis City Government has always seemed to be on another planet -- as
does the Minneapolis legislative delegation.  

Mayor Elect Rybak writes:  

<>

Mayor Elect Rybak -- I'm glad you are following the list and participating.
 I do think that what you said on this list about your feelings about
public support for the stadium in Minneapolis do contradict what the
transcripts say about what you said at the Stadium hearings.  That was one
of the criticisms I've heard about you during the campaign -- that you say
different things to different audiences.  You aren't the only politician
who does this.  Several weeks back, I wrote you with a question regarding
the stadium -- and you haven't responded.  What bothers me about that is
that you were always very responsive to email before the election.  

I'll agree with Mayor Elect Rybak about Labor trying to strongarm council
members.  Labor lost big time in this election.  I think that sent a
message.  

Eva
Eva Young
Central

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[Mpls] Cool formats

[List Manager]

Some unemployed guy writes:
> 
> P.S. Roberta, on my computer your emails turn out this cool shade of green.
> Please tell me offlist how you did that.

I write:
 
It IS cool.

Still, I do want to remind list members that the formatting needed to create
such cool effects (HTML) can also carry viruses, which is why such posts are
held by our list server. I have to shake them loose manually ­ which is
tedious.
 
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[Mpls] Council

[R.T.Rybak]

I 
wanted to pick up on a comment from Roberta re. the council organization being 
something that I have "orchestrated."
 
This 
is not the case.
 
When 
Ostrow stepped forward to challenge the existing leadership of the council I 
stood up with him and others to say it was time for a change. That action helped 
define the battle in the election and I'm very pleased that we all did 
that.
 
When I 
met with the new council members a few weeks ago we agreed that now that it was 
clear that a change was going to happen, I should step back and let them make 
decisions about how they choose to organize.   For that reason I 
have stayed out of the discussion of who is what chair, etc.  It's no 
secret that I would vote for Paul but he and Barb both have strengths, I get 
along well with both and it's not my job to dictate who does 
what.
 
(A 
personal observation from a bunch of years on the outside.  All this stuff 
about who chairs what committee is wildly overratedIt doesn't matter that 
much; What matters is who is leading the charge on what 
issue)
 
I'm 
staying out of this but so should other groups. For example, I don't think 
it's helpful to have labor folks making calls to strongarm people about who is 
chair of what committee.  I didn't get elected to decide who runs the 
council, and they certainly did not either. This style failed in the election 
and it should fail now. 
 
I love 
seeing this all discussed on Mpls issues.  Out in the open, as it should 
be.   Let the messy process of democracy run its course so we can get 
on to the important work. 
 
I 
think that's what people elected us for. They DID NOT elect us to get into 
personality squabbles that detour us from bringing about real change. 

 
R.T. 
Rybak 
unemployed but working. 
 
P.S. 
Roberta, on my computer your emails turn out this cool shade of green.  
Please tell me offlist how you did that. 
 

Re: [Mpls] Is school more like a)a TV repair shop, b)a doctor'soffice, c) other

[Michael Atherton]

Ann Berget wrote:

> I think "school" is rather more like seeing a doctor and getting a 
> prescription for your problem: if you get the Rx filled and take it and do 
> the other things the doctor recommends, you are much more likely to recover 
> quickly than if you put the Rx in your pocket and simply complain about how 
> the doctor didn't cure you. 
> 
> Some things you simply have to do for yourself. Students and their families, 
> not just teachers,  must do their fair share of the learning work. Students 
> who are not present are not doing their fair share,  parents who do not - for 
> whatever reason - see that their children attend school regularly prepared to 
> learn do not do their fair share. And  teachers - however committed, well 
> funded, or skilled - are unlikely to overcome such a basic lack of 
> cooperation. Everyone has to do his/her fair share to achieve success. That 
> includes students and families.

Ok, I can work with this analogy.  So school is more like
going to a doctor's office.  I would assume, being a
middle class patient, that my doctor would be properly
trained and would have not have been hired 
if they were incompetent.  I would assume that they
would be familiar with and use the most current and effective
medicines and procedures; and that they would not continue to
use procedures that have been ineffective in the past.  
I would assume that I would not have to travel by bus for 
more than an hour to see them.  I would assume that I would 
not be permanently harmed by routine medical procedures.
I would assume that the medical care at the clinic close
to my home would not differ significantly from one in 
another neighborhood.  I would assume that even if I were
unable to afford private medical care, that I would 
still be able to receive proper medical treatment.

I have never claimed that students and families don't have
a role to play in the educational system.  But, just
as the government has a legal responsibility to protect
children from physical abuse at the hands of bad
parents, I feel that the schools have a responsibility
to educate students who come from neglectful homes.  Young 
children are not responsible for the homes that they are born
into.  As citizens of this country they have a right
to a quality education regardless of who their parents
are.

Michael Atherton
Prospect Park

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RE: [Mpls] School vs. Home or school + home

[Walt Cygan]

David Brauer wrote:
> My kid's ability to enter a good school is certain -
> we've already found three and we're guaranteed one.

I must live in the wrong neighborhood. When I tried to get my daughter into
a Minneapolis school. I was guaranteed one that I wasn't happy with. My
daughter's chance at what we considered to be a good school *for her* did
come down to a roll of the dice. Now we are at Minnehaha Academy and very
happy with the school, even if not with having to pay for 2 schools.

I have read all of the recent posts on the schools with a great deal of
interest. I have sometimes been dismayed with the  level of negativism in
the commentary. We seem to be in the grips of a "Hardball" / "Crossfire"
confrontation. More heat than light.

To me school choices are intensely personal and very individual. What is
right for one child may not be for another.
I agree with Lynnell to some extent. I think that my kids would be OK
wherever they went to school. I went to an abysmal Catholic elementary
school in a blue-collar Chicago neighborhood on the West Side. I'm not
kidding when I say that class sizes were generally above 40. I turned out OK
(although don't ask my wife to verify that).

My parents, children of Polish immigrants, always emphasized the value of
education, though they themselves never finished high school. We grew up
from an early age *knowing* we would go to college some day. We always had
books. My mother never objected when I wanted to buy a book that was way
over my head at Krochs & Brentanos on our occasional trips to the Loop. That
environment allowed me to overcome the shortcomings of the school I was
subjected to.

But personally, I'm not going for OK. I want my kids to be anything they
want to be. Given our school choices, they can't get the help to do that in
the Minneapolis schools. That is unfortunate, but we are willing to pay for
them to get it at a private school. Am I only imagining this as some ideal?
I don't think so. Given the choice between Keewaydin and Minnehaha Academy,
I feel confident in *our* choice for *our* children.

Yes, we should work to make the public schools better. That even includes
those of us that don't have our kids in the public schools, even if that
only means an informaed school board vote.

But parents have to take responsibility too. For helping their children to
read. For helping with homework, or at least seeing to it that their kids
get help if they need it. For providing an environment where learning is
admired and honored and expected.

If it comes down to a blame game of who is most at fault when a child has
problems, the child and the city have already lost. We have to know that
learning is a cooperative effort in the school and in the home and no amount
of bickering will change that. If a child has either a home or a school that
doesn't support his or her learning needs, that child will be poorer for it.
If a child has neither a supportive home nor a supportive school, he or she
is lost in so many ways.

Walt Cygan
12-5
Keewaydin

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RE: [Mpls] Comrade Ostrow!

[Roberta Englund]

AMEN 
Mr. Parra!  In one fell swoop Mr.Ostrow and company has vetoed citizen 
opinion, now and in the future.  So what if the people voted, just 
sign on the dotted line and we will all be back to business as usual just absent 
a few players, but with others to take their 
place!   What's next, perhaps a sign on the line deal 
for a new stadium?  This smacks of an RT orchestrated "I can do 
business better then you so get out of the way if you don't 
agree" strategy.  If this stupidity prevails, at least it is nice 
to know early on that a manipulative and self effacing mayor is at the helm 
of an easily controlled (abet elected) city council.  Roberta Englund, 
Folwell Neighborhood 

  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of E PSent: Friday, 
  December 07, 2001 7:56 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [Mpls] Comrade 
  Ostrow!
  BLECH, PHEW, ACK to Ostrow!
   
  Kudos to Barb Johnson for having the balls to stand up 
  to Ostrow's intimidating techniques to gain the Council Presidency.  
  C'mon Paul, what planet are you on?  Didn't you pay attention to the 
  results of the city election?  Seems most folks sent a clear message to 
  downtown that the Cherryhomes/Belton/Campbell-esque way of doing business 
  would not be tolerated.  Barb's idea of handshakes seems the most gallant 
  way of deciding the presidency.  
   
  Who appointed you our fearless Council President - 
  God?  RT?  As a supporter of RT and his bid to win the Mayoral 
  election, I was under the assumption that good and fair government would rule 
  the day.  WRONG!  Ostrow, we deserve a better explanation than 
  "well, we've got lotsa work to do" - DUH!  
   
  Either I'm on Planet X, or I thought Minneapolis was 
  moving into a new era - but then again
   
  Watching suspiciously!!!
   
  Eduardo Parra
  Cleveland

Re: [Mpls] Is school more like a)a TV repair shop, b)a doctor's office, c) other

[ABerget]

I think "school" is rather more like seeing a doctor and getting a prescription for your problem: if you get the Rx filled and take it and do the other things the doctor recommends, you are much more likely to recover quickly than if you put the Rx in your pocket and simply complain about how the doctor didn't cure you. 

Some things you simply have to do for yourself. Students and their families, not just teachers,  must do their fair share of the learning work. Students who are not present are not doing their fair share,  parents who do not - for whatever reason - see that their children attend school regularly prepared to learn do not do their fair share. And  teachers - however committed, well funded, or skilled - are unlikely to overcome such a basic lack of cooperation. Everyone has to do his/her fair share to achieve success. That includes students and families.

Ann Berget
Kingfield

Re: [Mpls] Ostrow will be council president

[KarenCollier]

In a message dated 12/7/01 8:56:57 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


This is much more subtle than taunts about “losers”. If Seventh Ward CM Goodman becomes fast friends with MCDA, we’ll be fighting the affordable housing battle with the same cast of characters who seriously missed the development boat these past several years. 

I strongly, strongly, disagree with this statement.  If you have followed Lisa Goodman's record for the past four years, you will discover that she has been an out spoken advocate for affordable housing.  This statement infers that she will not be an advocate and it will be business as usual.  I don't think so.  Lisa is probably only of the more outspoken advocates of affordable housing on the Council.  With the new Council leadership she could have had any position she wanted.  There's a reason why she chose MCDA Operating Committee.

Karen Collier
Linden Hills

[Mpls] Can Ostrow going to deal with the oppressive City debts?

[Victoria Heller]

I've seen him in action a several public hearings - he looks like a deer in
the headlights!

Barbara Johnson is BY FAR a superior choice.

Vicky Heller
Ward 2
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[Mpls] city debt

[BudTBum]

The posts on Minneapolis city debt is interesting.
If I did my math correct it works out to $10,000 to $11,000 per household 
(depending on which figures you use).
Does anyone know how this ranks with other cities in the metro? 
Better/worse?

Tom Holtzleiter
King Field
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Re: [Mpls] Ostrow will be council president

[Fredric H. Markus]

There does seem to be a whiff of extortion in the air. It
was one thing to contemplate a city council with Ms. Cherryhomes
still at hand. We’ve had to shift political gears what with the startling
outcomes in Wards Five and Six. Having my Tenth Ward CM-elect fill his
predecessor’s seat as chair of Z&P sounds like a plan whoever gets
the top spot. I’ve had good conversations with Dan in recent months and I
know he will be open to R.T.’s process reforms
when they emerge. Dan’s done extensive work in the Planning Department
and in the wonderful world of NRP. He’ll do just fine.  

 

I have to agree with Keith Reitman,
though. Dan Niziolek ought to be tapped for Z&P
on his merits, not his signature. What further demands will there be, now that “sign
and deliver” is established? How long before the next irresistible urge
to require conformity? Beyond compulsory carrots, what about sticks? How long
before the tempting concept of punishment takes on solidity? We will all be
losers in such a future. 

 

This is much more subtle than taunts about “losers”.
If Seventh Ward CM Goodman becomes fast friends with MCDA, we’ll be
fighting the affordable housing battle with the same cast of characters who
seriously missed the development boat these past several years. I would frankly
prefer to see more advocacy and less shoulder braid in
the leadership, especially after the Cherryhome
years. Whatever her personal advancements in the short run, there will be
plenty of losers in CM Goodman’s precincts if MCDA is permitted to live
on at 50% and up.

 

Not making any friends here but I wouldn’t be so hard-edged
if there weren’t the familiar signs of “the fix is in”.

 

Fred Markus Horn Terrace Ward Ten 

 

 

RE: [Mpls] Is Reading Taught? Attendance counts.

[David Brauer]

Michael Atherton writes:

> Unfortunately, unlike middle class parents,  poor parents
> can't afford to take their business elsewhere. And in Minneapolis it
appears
> that the middle class parents just don't give a damn as long as their
> children when the lottery. 

Data, please?

> Has anyone else noticed how ironic it is that
> a child's entry into a good school is based on a roll of the dice?  If
you
> lose you sell your house and move to the suburbs or put your kids in
> private school; that is unless you are poor.  Equity in modern
America.

Midnight in the schools again. My kid's ability to enter a good school
is certain - we've already found three and we're guaranteed one. No dice
there, Michael.

And thanks to deseg decisions, minority kids are quite able to get in
the best open schools in Minneapolis - the ones the middle-class covets.
The spots are there. At the very least, parents of poor non-white kids
in Minneapolis have substantial choice...if they choose to exercise it.

I was at the School Choice Fair last month  - on a Saturday, for six
hours (so you could go morning or afternoon), downtown on all the bus
routes, free parking, even child care. The opportunity was there to find
the best place for your kid - and there are plenty of best places.

If you're going to proclaim shared responsibility, give the district
some credit for offering routes to equity.

There's also no data that people who move to the suburbs or enroll in
private school do so because MPS schools are "bad." As Lynnell noted,
some have an ideal that may or may not be real. They aren't going from
bad to good, they're going from not-ideal (imaginary or real) to
more-ideal. 

David Brauer
King Field - Ward 10 


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[Mpls] school fundraisers

[Mark Wilde]

i attended my step-son's school last night to take
part in a holiday sale.  some of the classes had made
little holiday knick-knacks to sell to raise money for
a field trip. they were also selling t-shirts etc. to
try and raise money.  there was more than one teacher
there and many volunteers and students. 

we bought a little reindeer ornament made out of a
champagne cork for $1.00, and a far side calendar for
$8.00. 

seems like a lot of work on the part of the schools
for $9.00. i guess i would rather pay the higher taxes
to fully fund the schools so we could have all been at
home eating supper.

mark wilde
windom park



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Re: [Mpls] Is Reading Taught? Attendance counts.

[Michael Atherton]

Andy Driscoll wrote:

> Mr. Atherton asks if he's deluded. The answer is yes.

I may be.  It maybe impossible to change the educational establishment,
but one should not accept social injustice just because change is illusive.

> Mr. Atherton suggests that only the schools are responsible,...
>

False implication.  I had said, "Sure parental support is important, but that doesn't 
let
the public schools off the hook for lousy management."

For those who are having trouble understanding my position, please allow
me to explain further.  I don't want to play the "blame" game, it's an iterative,
no win process.  I want to play the "responsibility" game.  And, here's how
you play: everyone accepts that they are part of the problem and works
as hard as possible to achieve a solution.  When someone says, "Well,
we offered summer tutorials and nobody came," they are playing the blame
game.  I think that the schools need to admit that their management
policies are ineffective and work on developing new ones.  There will always
be parents who are not willing or able to take responsibility for their
children; that's not an excuse for the schools failing to teaching them to read.
On the other side of the coin I have emphasized parent involvement programs
because it is one way of getting parents to take responsibility. You need to
work on all aspects of the problem to achieve a solution.

Tim Bonham wrote:

> How can anyone seriously compare the teaching of a child with the
> repair of a mechanical contraption like a TV set?
>

With imagination, something that seems to be missing in this debate.
Both, TV repair shops and the schools provide a service.  In the case
of the schools the service is so bad, at least for minority students, that
it is unacceptable.  Unfortunately, unlike middle class parents,  poor parents
can't afford to take their business elsewhere. And in Minneapolis it appears
that the middle class parents just don't give a damn as long as their
children when the lottery.  Has anyone else noticed how ironic it is that
a child's entry into a good school is based on a roll of the dice?  If you
lose you sell your house and move to the suburbs or put your kids in
private school; that is unless you are poor.  Equity in modern America.

Michael Atherton
Prospect Park

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[Mpls] Comrade Ostrow!

[E P]

BLECH, PHEW, ACK to Ostrow!
 
Kudos to Barb Johnson for having the balls to stand up to 
Ostrow's intimidating techniques to gain the Council Presidency.  C'mon 
Paul, what planet are you on?  Didn't you pay attention to the results of 
the city election?  Seems most folks sent a clear message to downtown that 
the Cherryhomes/Belton/Campbell-esque way of doing business would not be 
tolerated.  Barb's idea of handshakes seems the most gallant way of 
deciding the presidency.  
 
Who appointed you our fearless Council President - 
God?  RT?  As a supporter of RT and his bid to win the Mayoral 
election, I was under the assumption that good and fair government would rule 
the day.  WRONG!  Ostrow, we deserve a better explanation than 
"well, we've got lotsa work to do" - DUH!  
 
Either I'm on Planet X, or I thought Minneapolis was 
moving into a new era - but then again
 
Watching suspiciously!!!
 
Eduardo Parra
Cleveland

[Mpls] New Bold Chit?/Nu, Bull chip

[PennBroKeith]

 I was told off-line I forgot to sign. And some other things. Yea I wrote the 
post. Sorry for the 3: AM oversight. Keith, Near North.
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RE: [Mpls] New Council Prez?/New Oath/New Bold Chit

[David Brauer]

Keith R. writes:
 
> Paul Ostrow, favored contender for Council Prez crown, seems to create
a new
> oath of office for the incoming class of 2002 Council. He proposes
they all
> sign up to his draft of a cooperation pact(?), with him as the top
> cooperator. Other current and future CMs, and the voters who put them
there,
> may wonder why a pledge of allegiance is required and to what must
they
> solemnly swear and sign? Barbara Johnson, spirited challenger for the
Council
> Prez title, asks what is up with this, as she and only 5 others hold
back
> there ol' John Hancocks. They hold back, but the concept of consensus
> building bandied about as a reaction to voter disdain for the iron
fist of
> the previous Cherryhomes administration takes a nosedive. 

You're right about that nosedive but please, let's not turn this into a
battle of Darkness versus Light. You don't give your main rival the #2
or #3 power job on the council (Community Development chair) if you're
some kind of mini-Mussolini. You don't offer chairs to people not in
your coalition (Johnson, Biernat, Johnson Lee, Sandy Colvin Roy). I'm
sure that made Ostrow's job harder, not easier. Had he truly played
power politics, he probably could've gotten more votes.

Paul and Barb are both extremely decent people. You can't please
everyone with 7-8 chairs and 13 council members - and remember, pols can
get pissy when they don't get what they want, so don't lay it all on
Ostrow. I'm sure he made mistakes (the letter seems silly, not evil),
but I'm sure others did too.

This is not to endorse his slate - there are chairmanships I wish had
gone to different people - but to say that the evidence doesn't back up
the "iron fist" charge. 

The reason the last council was so bollixed up is, in part, because
members sometimes let their personal feelings/antagonisms get in the way
of serving the public interest. If this council does the same thing, I
think there will be a similar rude awakening down the road.

David Brauer
King Field - Ward 10 


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Re: [Mpls] Is Reading Taught? Attendance counts.

[Steve Cross]

Michael Atherton said:

> I think that it's really sad when we need to blame parents for the failure
> of the public schools.
>

But hasn't you argument all along been that parental involvement is THE
key to successful education and that smaller classes, etc. are bogus and
don't change the outcome?

Steve Cross
Prospect Park

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Re: [Mpls] Is Reading Taught? Attendance counts.

[Tim Bonham]

>From: Michael Atherton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>. . .
>We should no sooner expect parents to teach their own children as
>to fix their own electronic equipment.  If you took your TV in to be
>fixed, would you expect it to come back with a note that said that
>it was 50% repaired and you could finish the other half?
 How can anyone seriously compare the teaching of a child with the 
repair of a mechanical contraption like a TV set?   If Mr. Atherton really 
thinks they are comparable, I can see why he could have problems.

(Actually, with todays modular constructed TV's, most repairs are a matter 
of locating the module that is not performing up to specs, discarding that 
module, and replacing it with a new one.  There was a time, back in the 
50's & 60's, where some doctors tried to 'fix' people the same way -- by 
removing the non-functional parts, via  electro-shock therapy, frontal 
lobotomies, etc.  It didn't seem to work very well.)

Tim Bonham, Ward 12

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[Mpls] New Council Prez?/New Oath/New Bold Chit

[PennBroKeith]

Paul Ostrow, favored contender for Council Prez crown, seems to create a new 
oath of office for the incoming class of 2002 Council. He proposes they all 
sign up to his draft of a cooperation pact(?), with him as the top 
cooperator. Other current and future CMs, and the voters who put them there, 
may wonder why a pledge of allegiance is required and to what must they 
solemnly swear and sign? Barbara Johnson, spirited challenger for the Council 
Prez title, asks what is up with this, as she and only 5 others hold back 
there ol' John Hancocks. They hold back, but the concept of consensus 
building bandied about as a reaction to voter disdain for the iron fist of 
the previous Cherryhomes administration takes a nosedive. Since this 
allegiance sign-up is a new concept for elected council members; I shall 
create a term for the downside. Beware, Ye of little trust in the new 
machine, sign now or be Ostrowcized.
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